The full, uncut version of the Three-Body Problem review is available here: www.patreon.com/bookpilled Filmed in Bosque los Colomos, Guadalajara, Mexico.
I am 72 years old and have been reading sci fi since I was a young girl. I find your reviews refreshing and fair and love your lists of older sci fi (ha, it used to be contemporary fiction for me). I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of Three Body Problem. In a charitable mood, I agree that perhaps the quality of writing was lost due to translation failure, but at the end of the day, it is a boring story, with really unsympathetic characters. I cannot believe its popularity, given the tendency toward laziness in readers today. Readers cannot get through Foundation, or Foundation and Empire, nor can they read Russian classics. Three Body Problem is too much work for too little reward. I tried doing an Audio book, thinking it would make the story more accessible. I fall asleep usually within 15 minutes. I don't think I will live long enough to give this novel another attempt. Keep those amazingly entertaining reviews coming!
I can't tell you how much I look forward to your videos! They are so refreshing and enjoyable to watch. Lately I've been trying to get out of addiction to social media and have noticed I struggle to sit through vidoes but I have no problem putting things down and just taking time to watch what you put out. Appreciate the uploads and look forward to more :)
Matt was trying so hard to lay out logical points while his emotions were strangling him. It's like he was trying to walk with the twin toddlers of disgust and anger clinging to his legs. 😂
He he that rant on the 3 body problem made me chuckle I knew you would hate it. Love the passionate response !You have a far more sophisticated reading palette that is is why the book of skulls and Solaris hit the spot . Keep that intensity Matt love it 🫡
I liked the Three Body Problem, and loved the Three Body Problem after I read the trilogy a second time. But you ARE NOT WRONG. Review is spot on. But I loved it. Go figure.
As someone who hated Ancillary Justice because it had lackluster characters and boring prose, I too bristled at apologists who said things to me along the lines of: “SciFi is about big ideas and Space Opera is traditionally light on character development.” To which I responded, “Nope. This book simply sucks and you all are just defending it because you have a four volume sunk cost into the series. Do not attempt your literary gaslighting on me.”
I agree. I didn't like Ancillary Justice either. And no way should anyone have to read the three other books in any series to appreciate the first one. I can't imagine that reading any more from the same source could redeem the abysmal quality of TTBP.
I discovered you channel a few weeks ago, and I'd like to say thanks for all of the great suggestions for lesser known authors. I've always enjoyed sci-fi and fantasy books, but it's nice to get some suggestions for different books.
I completely agree! I’ve seen it talked about so much I had to give it a try and immediately after finishing it, I put it up for sale on eBay and erased it from my memory.
+1000 points for pulling off the line "then shouldn't we just be reading JSTOR". I laughed. Also points for pointing to Lem as someone who could do big ideas and great prose/stories at the same time.
I love TBP and I loved this video as well, lmao. It's very interesting to listen to a different opinion, and I completely agree about the writing. The characters have no personality whatsoever, but I really liked the context built around them. I think it's the first series I've read where I don't care at all about what's gonna happen with the characters 😂 It still blew my mind, especially the The Dark Forest. Thanks for sharing your honest thoughts about this!
I will not accept Da Shi slander. Also the characters are still a trillion times better than anyone from Asimov's or any other dozen classic american sci fi authors (and those always get a pass because 1-dimensional boring bad characters and asimov is such an ingrained concept in society that nobody cares anymore). I read the foundation trilogy less than 2 months ago and the three body problem trilogy over 2 years ago and at least I remember Da shi, Luo Ji, Chen Xin, AA, Tiamming, Wang, Ueid, Ye Wendjie, Del Rias, Thomas Wade, Zhang Beihai etc. I don't remember ANYONE from foundation apart from Mule.
The Dark Forest concept is cheap and makes no sense. No forest, ecosystem, hunter, etc. works that way, nor did human societies when finding ec other, even the most aggressive. It's AN idea, but there doesn't seem to be any reason for why it's used as the basis and context for the world in this book.
Bookpilled: "Solaris is like drinking the finest, the best, most artisanly roasted and prepared cup of coffee of your life, and Three-Body Problem is like someone microwaved a mug of tap water and threw some unground coffee beans in it and handed it to you." (5:35) 😅
Love the info. Have been burning through a lot of the books you have positively reviewed on this channel and mostly align with your feelings. I own TBP so I am interested to read a book you dislike to see if I am equally annoyed by it. My favorites so far from your page have been Neuromancer and I am in the middle of Solaris now and already love it. Again thanks for the thoughtful reviews.
I'm so glad you made this video, it means I don't have to make the one I was planning about this book. Life is too short to read the obviously overrated bestsellers of Genre SF, when far better books lie neglected for decades. It's like building a record collection- would you really do it based on what gets to number 1 in the singles charts? Endure the brickbats, my friend (I know you will).
@@Bookpilled Hey Matt - well, Graham and I were both going to read it and discuss, but I'd been so put off by my reading of 'The Wandering Earth' some years back and the fact that my instinct said to me "This will suck," (and it's rarely wrong) that it may never happen, but we'll see. At the moment, your policy of 'stick to the old stuff' is one I'd advise keeping to. There is so little of any real literary merit once you get past the early 90s and...well, I could go on and on! Take care, my friend!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal @Bookpilled Like Matt, I'd like to hear you opine upon it as well, but I can *also* say "Truly, truly I say unto you; We hath suffer-ed that you mayn't have to." It is a potentially clever exposition machine in search of a book & a half baked mystery (abandoned part way through for a third rate Bond-ish action set-piece ending tacked on) and a front heavy prologue about the Cultural Revolution does not a book make. (Unless you are a 20 something who never learned about the Cultural Revolution who thinks this stuff was original.) There's like 5 pages after the action set piece resolves where the characters "see something in the sky" which had the potential for greatness - in a 20 - 50 page short story. A few cool images or idea hooks early on. That's it. CAVEAT LECTOR!!
@Bookpilled @Outlawbookselleroriginal If we are trying to save you from over-rated zeitgeist novels of poor construction and lack luster execution then avoid "Station Eleven" while you are at it, a YA made for TV adaptation in slow moving prose. Read boring post apocalypses like "On The Beach" or "Alas, Babylon" first, not because they are better, but at *least* because they were classics. Actually, never-mind that, they are also slow, and boring skip all three.
Your comments about TBP were very timely for me. I bought the paperback trilogy a couple months ago based upon its wild popularity, only to discover that like the Wheel of Time in the fantasy genre, being highly regarded by the *modern* masses might actually mean it's complete garbage. I'm most of the way through the 2nd book, and if anything, the Dark Forest is worse than TBP. I don't see myself finishing the series, even though I bought all 3 books. I only discovered your channel a few weeks ago by accident, but I really enjoy your content. I've added a lot of sci-fi books to my wish list, based upon your comments and review. Best wishes.
I'm going to come in on a different tack here. 3 Body Problem is on a grand scale and it will lead the reader to consider some ideas about humanity that are novel. However, it probably isn't as great as some folks claim it is. Neither is it as bad as Matt makes it out to be. The book isn't for novice readers, I'll say that.
What a relief! I thought at first you were going to say you *liked* Three Body Problem. I couldn't even get through the first book and felt maybe I just didn't get it. BTW I followed your recommendation and read A Fire Upon The Deep...excellent! I'm now deep into your #1 rated novel Blindsight and so happy to discover it. I've had to look up countless terms and it's not easy but the story and characters make the effort worth it. A vampire commander? So cool.
I’m in the process of recommending your channel to a friend. ...for many reasons. This kind of bravery to skewer the Darling du Jour is one such reason. Your recommendations have led me to many, many winners, and your critical reviews of books I disliked or hated also generally match up. But this one seals it (and agrees with other quality opinions): I’m not going to read TBP, nor watch it on Netflix. Life is too short. Thanks once again.
Don’t feel bad about saying Tanith Lee is a better writer than Dick. I never felt that PKD was a great writer. He was a great idea man. He was a great storyteller but I was never been blown away by his prose.
I'm extremely excited and happy to have found your channel, because I've been introduced to Sci Fi somewhat recently by Dune, and have been in a dive. I've mostly read the basic and popular novels, and I'm aware that the books I'm reading aren't the prime on building or writing. So a more experienced voiced is very welcoming. Now I have the largest list ever to catch up in the genre hahaha. I did read 3PB and I did enjoyed. The clinical approach didn't bother me much, even tho is def bad writing, but I assume I am not a demanding reader, even tho I highly appreciate excellent and inspired writing when it comes to. As someone that doesn't speak English as a first language, the 3BP text was very accessible and the start permeating the context of the chinese cultural revolution for me were really gripping. The books get better (I promise) and he ending in Dark Forest shines so bright for me. Thanks for taking your time reviewing this.
I agree with a lot of the criticisms. After finishing I also felt that it was overhyped. I too, hate the "big idea, no prose" response for SciFi. Point them to Leguin and they will see that isn't true. I was lukewarm on this book and the only reason I will probably read the next few is because of buddy reading. The only group I think this is for are the readers who enjoy philosophy.
@@zachzackzakI also love philosophy and saw the moral dillema with the nihilistic approach liu took in regard to the first contact. It gets explored more in book 2 to great extents so I should say its more prevalent in the sequels
100% agree with you on 3 body problem - I made it through to the end through sheer bloody mindedness but ultimately I thought it was utter garbage, amazing what can now win an award.
Exactly right! I never feel that I can give a valid evaluation of a book unless I read the whole thing. I have seldom regretted the time I spent reading a book as much as I did with this one. A total waste of time and mental energy.
Love this video. The nature background is so much nicer than the fireplace in so many of your videos. BTW, I also hated the 3 Body Problem, and didn't get very far before throwing it out.
I dont care if you hated a book I loved or vice versa (it hasnt happened yet, but, whatever...) I just come for your honest, enthusiastic, passionate and often hilarious reviews! (Have to say, Ive agreed with most of them!!) And yes, dammit, theres in no excuse for books of this genre not to be written as well, beautifully, lyrically, as any other genre. There are many examples, so NO PASSES!! I read 3BP (can I use that short form even if Im not such a huge fan?) and I enjoyed it and found some unique moments in there, but was eager to move on, and not to the sequels. Keep doin what youre doin BP ( I can use the short form 'cause Im such a huge fan!!) Love these reviews, and love the list of books-to-read you forced me to create!!!
I tried reading 3 Body Problem, and could not get past page 100. I am a compulsive book finisher and could not go further. I skipped pages, and delved in further on ...and did so again...To call the author "influenced by Arthur C Clarke" is an insult to Clark, whose imagination engaged me from the first sentence.
Excellent video! As I've said before for some strange reason I am now MORE interested or at least intrigued to read my copy of TBP (never read Cixin Liu, only familiar with Ken Liu's lovely short stories and fantasy novels). But returning to the point here, this video review was genuinely entertaining and instructive, jumping straight into your thoughts with critique as sharp and barbed as ever. *Your point on hard SF homework of big ideas vs. literary/literature merit/considerate prose along with that JSTOR journal article example was so SPOT ON. Great stuff
As ever, I deeply love your negative reviews!!! I really enjoyed the Three Body Problem and its sequels, but also get your points. I was also very skeptical due to the hype, but surprised myself by getting into the ideas (yes, not the prose or characters!). Also very intrigued by the Lee and Silverburg titles - you are my go-to recommender of under-appreciated but exceptional literature. And I can't thank you enough for the gorgeous, peaceful shots of Guadalajara! Balm of hurt minds....
After numerous stellar reviews from friends, yesterday, I finally decided to read the Three-Body Problem. By page 100, I was beginning to wonder when the book would start; by page 200, to spice things up, to escape from the bone-crushing boredom that is 3-BP, I went to my bathroom and read the labels on shampoo bottles. I will not be reading another page.
Back a few years ago, when I hadn't heard of the Gollancz SF Master series and I didn't know your channel, I wanted to read more good SF and didn't know what to look for. I was recommended TBP and never really managed to get into it. Guess I can let go of that ambition now that I am in a much better position when it comes to looking for new SF books to read. Thank you.
I liked the strange writing. It felt very foreign and weird. I like that sometimes, it reminds me of the feeling I got reading the Book of the New Sun.
You should start more of your videos with a review of a best seller or lauded newer modern book. Highly entertaining. I always appreciate your off the beaten path reviews but often wish I knew what you might say about something more dominant in the mainstream of current sci-fi, or fantasy. This video was a good balance of both.
I loved all three of the Remembrance of Earth's Past novels. I really like your channel (and have added several books to my reading list based on your recommendations) but often find that your opinions are at odds with my own. Art, music, and literature are like that though, there is something for everyone. I appreciate your criticism even if we don't always agree.
Absolutely agree about 3BP. I gave up on the Kindle version about a third of the way through, then managed to finish the Audible version. That's some hours of my life I won't get back. I too wondered if it's a problem of translation, but I really don't think it is.
Why keep reading a book that you loathe? I found it to be a super engaging page turner from like page 20 or so. After Wang started seeing a countdown burned into his retina I legitimately couldn't put it down (like how do you even come up with this shit Liu Cixin?) The three body game sections did kill the pacing a bit, but that's such a small problem in an overall gripping plot. The writing is functional and gets some decent "poetic" descriptions across. People pretend like the writing is the worst thing since the holocaust, I read it in Lithuanian translated from English and it was fine. I am not expecting Blood meridian from a silly sci fi book about an alien invasion. The writing was fine, the attempts comparing human feelings to environental effects ("she felt like a pillar ice" when describing that someone feels sad) were pretty cringe, but there was barely a handful of them (maybe 4 or 5, which is much better than most other Chinese books I've read, that's literally just their writing style) in the entire book. It's simply written in a very objective, clear and easy to understand way while describing some pretty complex shit. It barely uses any if at all "poetic" language and it was even unironicaly pretty funny sometimes, I would go as far as to say the writing was better than Dune, which I assume was an actual fault on the translation. A simple line like " they tried to take my son's life away" was translated into Lithuanian like "Jie bande atimti is mano sunaus gyvastį" which basically translates to "they tried to steal my sons aliveness" It was also the final sentence of a chapter and it felt like a punchline, I was rolling on the ground laughing after I closed to the book. Anyway fuck you 3 body problem is good bye
You planted the seed of Tanith Lee in my brain here when I first saw this months ago. Soon after, I stumbled across several of her DAWs and even some hardcovers. I now own 22 of them!
Dawn by Octavia Butler, Blood Music by Greg Bear, The Genocides by Thomas Disch, Roadside Picnic by the Strugatsky Bros., The Mote in God's Eye by Niven/Pournelle, were all fantastic. Also Lucifer's Hammer by Niven/Pournelle was excellent but I can't remember if you recommended that one? I never would have read any of those until watching a few of your videos and you're batting a thousand so far. Super impressive. I have a few more of your recommendations lined up yet, but I just wanted to thank you for all of those! Have you read anything by Jack McDevitt? I just read The Engines of God and it was very serviceable. It is the antidote to the mess that was Alien Prometheus, in so far as it deals with real archaeology and real scientists investigating ancient space cultures and ancient ruins on distant planets in a way that is scientifically realistic and also with a narrative that is logical yet compelling. Somewhat reminiscent of Arthur C. Clarke without being derivative of his work or style.
Thank you! Good to see you in good health and natural scenery looks great. Great reviews as usual. TBP is very weak book in terms of writing. It got some interesting ideas, but that doesn't save it from dullness. Also I don't think that translation is the case. For example we got plenty of books translated from Japanese and prose there is great and beautiful.
I agree completely. I was able to finish it, but I got to the end and couldn't care less about going on to the other two books. It wasn''t quite as bad as Ready, Player One, but almost. Your description of the plot as glacial was spot on. I couldn't keep the characters straight because they had no personalities whatsoever. The book was a physics textbook thinly disguised as a novel.
Thank you. I tried reading the Three Body Problem and could not get through it, and then I tried listening to it and could not get through it. I'm done with it.
Totally agree with you on TBP. Having said that I have noticed that you have a mild bias against longer & slower books in general. I enjoy a good brick sometimes, embrace the doorstop!
I really enjoyed TBP and its sequels, but I certainly can't dispute with the flaws that turn some people away. Thanks for the recommendations! I've added them to my already-too-long TBR queue.
I stumbled upon your channel tonight, specifically your review of Book of the New Sun. I enjoyed that and while I like Shadow of the Torturer, my thoughts and crits largely align with yours. This led me to browse your videos and this is the one I chose next. And I am in complete agreement with you, and I respect that you are saying so in the face of what seems like near-universal adulation. I think that there is definitely something lost in translation but to your point, my suspicion is there wasn't much lost. I ultimately gave up on the book, and just went to the wiki to get a sense of the "Big Ideas". Some are indeed interesting, but I am unwilling to pay the reading cost to be disappointed in how little they are likely actually explored. Liked and subbed.
I tried. I really did, but I had to abandon TBP unfinished. I didn't even bother to notice how far I got, I was that bored by it. I read The Electric Forest as a teen and was blown away by it.
After watching many of your videos, I have concluded you have a particular set of criteria that you apply to the novels you read. So I am not surprised that you hated Three Body Problem. I read it and I didn't hate it or love it. I read it so that I would know what everybody's talking about, but now a couple of years later l can barely remember the story. I loved this review.
Well, I guess I'll read Electric Forest before I read 3BP. 😂I read The Book of Skulls about a month ago. I'd never actually read Silverberg before and was kinda blown away. Specifically one monologue from Eli while they're in Chicago I believe.
OMFG thank you! I have tried to explain my hate for the Three Body Problem and people just gave me "the look." I liked the first character and her life and then the second POV came in and I hated everything about being in their head. The game environment felt so clumsy like a mocking version of Snow Crash (which I also didn't really love). I just didn't care enough to continue reading. Ended up giving it to a used bookstore to get it away from me.
After taking your recommendations on books like ‘A mote in Gods eye’ and finding them enthralling, I will totally bow to your informed opinion on this book series.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said it's like just reading jstor or doing homework. I personally loved TBP but it was the first scifi series I read while all I was used to reading was jstor and textbooks.
I 100% agree about 3BP. I kept trying to give it a 'pass' because of translation, but it just... fails. Suddenly my faith in Hugo and Nebula Award lists is shaken.
The original chinese is considered badly written among chinese readers + ken liu is a good writer from what ive read of his + the author actually says the english translation is an improvement
i completely agree with you on the Liu series, and I read all the books. I wish I could get the the time back. Some of the sci-fi tech ideas were interesting. The Dark Forest idea may well be true, but its not his and what it looks like in this series is pretty dopey. That 1970ish Silverberg stuff is great. It will survive.
I knew from excerpts that TBP was poorly written and that the quality improved in later books, so I spoiled everything online and skipped straight to Death’s End, which was a great book. Will I go back and read the first two books? Probably not, but Death’s End was pretty awesome on its own.
As someone who JUST finished reading the entire trilogy because people kept saying "you need read them all to get it", yeah.... no. I should have just stopped at 3BP and called it good.
For the record, I hated the whole thing. Didn't bother to waste my time on it after 1/2 of the first book. Stink, stank, stunk. I'm with you 100% I watched the videos of that guy who was so jazzed by it, also. Still stunk. (Quinn's Ideas was the channel, I think.) Anyway, the slipcase looks good on the shelf, so there's that. 😆
When I finished the Three Body Problem, I was baffled by all the rave reviews. I wondered if I'd picked up another book called The Three Body Problem by mistake and everyone else was raving about a different book than the one I just read. While I didn't hate it, I was left with no desire to continue reading the trilogy.
I guess I have to subscribe because you're one of the only book reviewers I've ever heard say that the Three Body Problem kinda sucks, and I completely agree.
ELECTRIC FOREST, DAY BY NIGHT (also by Tanith Lee) and BOOK OF SKULLS were among the books that got the teen me into SF. I reread them as an adult and was so impressed by how well written they were, and would recommend them to anyone. Good and accurate analysis. Lee was popular in her lifetime but didn't get the acclaim she did for her style, which is as far from the evolved-pulp/Hemingway-esque straightforward-dry style of so much SF. Silverberg had a streak of about 8 books in the late sixties/early seventies that is just amazing even today for the scope and quality of the books.
Three body problem: I bought the trilogy books all at once. First book took me forever to read because I read at night and kept feeling asleep. I angrily decided to start the second book because I had paid for it. It's like a different person wrote it! I got hooked immediately! Much better expansion of world building and quite interesting ideas. So it's kinda true, you have to get through the first book to get to the good parts in the sequel books.
For me, Dark Forest is the best of the series. (i know, i know, I am “read the sequel” guy here) It was also the one book that wasn’t translated by Ken Liu, so maybe that is why I liked that one so much. Dark Forest is also the one that gets into the interesting science fiction and futurism elements. I still, years later, still think of space scenes from that book. But, the time jumps throughout the series do make it really hard to have a coherent plot, pacing, and character development.
I agree, I never got behind the idea that the "big ideas" can make up for poor writing and a lack of plot. There are plenty of author's who can do both (such as LeGuin and Vernor Vinge). I choose "soft" sci-fi with great writing over hard sci-fi with bad writing every time.
I am a 72 yr old retiree and a life-time bookworm. I agree with your assessment of 3 Body Problem. I tried to read it twice and both times found it boring and a hard read. And I love long books. No problem with that. Has to be a problem with translation.
I have to say your review of 3 body problem helped explain to me why I read the first book, then bought the second but still haven't picked it up in like over a year. I found book one kinda interesting but nothing about it grabbed me. I figured maybe one just has to read the full series to really get it, but I can't seem to find the energy just yet. I'm curious though, what is it, what psychological or sociological explanation is there for such broad praise and popularity for 3 body?
I'm subscribing just because of your three body problem review. Everyone seems to love it and I struggled to finish it. And absolutely agree I would not read a series that sucks at book one to get to a point I like it... Or feel like i should like it cuz I wasted so much time on it.
I always find it entertaining watching people discuss Book Of Skulls because I read it when I was a teenager and all I remember about it was "yeah it was good". Will have to re-read.
I would love to see a video about some more modern SF, I have found myself sticking to the older works, as my ventures into newer works have been consistently dissapointing.
I read Book of Skulls about 15 or so years ago and it was unique experience in my reading up to that point. Different to anything had read to that point, and I agree it could just as easily fall in to regular fiction, horror or fantasy. I was very interested in hearing your opinion on it, thank you; I will also add Tanith Lee to my ever-expanding reading list now as she sounds like a really interesting author to explore I have never had any interests in reading Three Body Problem based on a lot of opinions of online reviewers and who have seemingly similar tastes to myself in the past - and after watching this I am even less inclined to waste time reading something that is likely to offer very little return on the time invested in it.
I should have waited to comment until you got to Tanith Lee. She wrote some great science fiction among all the fantasy (which she was also brilliant). I can recommend Don't Bite the Sun and Drinking Sapphire Wine. I don't remember if you liked Jack Vance or not, but some of her fantasy was on that level.
You said it. The "yeah but..." response to "this book sucks" followed by its from another language, it's hard SF, it's above your head, it's the idea, and so on. These are statements from ppl who love the concept of the book in totality regardless of the final result. They are in love with the idea of a foreigner killing it in a big way. Then try to hide behind hard sf when readers don't like it. As if the readers have never read something challenging before. It was around this time when I completely stopped reading into the authors at all. The book must stand on its own without the authors prowess, for whatever reason, to hold it up. This has greatly reduced the DNFs.
Purchased the book just a few days ago based on a friend's recommendation - I'll still read it, but man do I have almost zero interest now. I agree with the general sentiment of many of your points, about disregarding the quality of the writing in sci-fi or fantasy, about lacklustre commonplace similes, all that made wholeheartedly enjoy this video :D But now I wonder about the books popularity and I REALLY want to know what exactly people see in it. So I'll read it!
Haven't read this one, but Tanith Lee is an amazing writer. I've read so many of her short stories at this point (she must have hundreds of them) and a couple of her novels. I don't know that it's controversial to think she is a better prose stylist than Dick -- I feel like most anybody who has read them both would have to agree -- but prose style is not the most important factor to a lot of readers. Even though I think I might be more forgiving of "pulpy" stuff than you, I'm generally with you -- it's pretty damn important to me that something have an engaging and powerful style.
If you, like me, have been reading S.F. (science fiction) for over 45 years and keep coming across a special type of enthusiastic comments and reviews, your instinct tells you in advance, that certain books are completely overrated and actually quite weak. These books often only aim to mimic much better originals and regularly focus on surface effects but are unable to recognize the true meaning and quality and character drawing of the original work. A good example from the past was "Snow Crash" by Neil Stephenson, where he attempted to surpass the style and action of William Gibson and others from the 80s - but achieved little more than stringing together one exaggerated cliché after another, making everything faster, bigger, louder and (actually not) cooler. And I had the same feeling as back then when I read what many of it's fans had to say about "The Three-Body Problem." a couple of years ago. One thing that reliably points to b.s. nowadays is the sheer size of books and trilogies etc. The authors - and unfortunately a rising amount of readers - don't grasp that BIG ideas don't require big volumes. The biggest ideas are best incubated in the small form of short stories and novellas and need to grow and unfold nowhere else than in the mind of the reader. The author who achieves this is a great one. Authors who need thousands of pages to convey a 'big' idea, on the other hand, are more likely to be penny-a-liners.
Thanks for that. I listened to the audiobook of 3BP. It was ok, that's about it. You nailed it on the characters, or lack thereof. I was looking forward to it and to be honest, it was a let down. It reminds me of a saying about quality/popularity.
I coincidentally finished The Book of Skulls this week too. I loved it. It somehow felt both dated and contemporary at the same time. I can see how the more "sensitive" readers would find it distasteful but it never bothered me. Whenever it did drift more toward the distasteful I just chalked it up to its time period and "that's Silverberg." It was also the perfect length and paced very well. I would put it just ahead of Dying Inside as my favorite Silverberg.
I'm currently about 3/4 through it. Good enough to finish, but nothing to rave about. Yes, I agree about the writing. I was avoiding the book because so much depends on translation. It has a lot of flowery language, which I'm familiar with from reading Chinese classics like Outlaws From the Marsh, Journey to the West, etc. It's not my style preference. Would I start it from zero knowing what it's turned out to be? Nah, there's just too much to read in life. Choose wisely, my friends.
As soon as I saw your video for 3BP show up I thought "Oh goody!" I read it a year or two ago based on a recommendation and, while I didn't hate it as much as you, I was pretty disappointed. I found there were a few interesting elements like the science blocking interference with human development. The first part was interesting in that I had never read any SF based in China, particularly that period. The weird virtual "game" was bewildering enough to keep me wondering what was going on for a while. All in all it was pretty ponderous, but I thought I'd try the second one to see where it went with the setup. While most reviews I've seen say The Dark Forest is the best of the three, it left a really bad taste in my mouth. It seemed even more ponderous that the first, and the characterization was poor, but I haven't heard anyone discuss one major problem I had with it. There seemed to be a foundational assumption of predetermination built into it that I just couldn't buy. In retrospect it manifested in 3BP in the whole idea that by blocking one area of physics, all significant progress could be halted... okay, I guess I can go with that for the story's sake. But I feel like the philosophy shows up in many aspects of the book from the plot to the characterization. But most obviously, the idea that an entire field of science could be derived from a handful of basic axioms, and the implications would be so incontrovertible that there was no escaping arriving at the same conclusions, to the point that multiple people would jump to the same course of morally problematic actions, almost simultaneously in one case, was hard to swallow. I'm pretty good at swallowing my disbelief when it is needed to get to the good parts, but so much of the book was colored by this sense of unjustifiable determinism that there weren't many good parts left. SPOILER: Not that it really matters to the plot aside from illustrating it's implausibility, but don't get me started on greeting an openly hostile superior and mysterious power by lining up your entire fleet in a tidy grid and waiting for them to arrive. Anyway, I selfishly wish you would read the next book just so I can know if I'm being unreasonable :-)
Now that you've admitted a distaste for the Three Body Problem I need only convince you that Heinlein is actually pretty good to bring our tastes into perfect alignment. Come to the UK and we'll fuck about in Hay on Wye until you're sufficiently convinced.
Interesting take! My uncle said he wasn’t impressed with it at all. He’s read an absolute mountain of science fiction books and said it was just incredibly dull with poor character development. I’ve yet to read it and will make up my own mind as to what I think but this isn’t the first time I’ve heard it getting a hammering 😂
This review seems about right. Not read it myself but I read _Ball Lightening_ and thought it mildly bad. There were two or three ideas that made me say." oh wow "; those moments were just about enough to keep me reading. Also enough to stop me reading TBP.
Thank you for the honest and insightful review of Three Body Problem. I reacted to it with the same mixed feelings that I had to Asimov’s Foundation. Your ‘TUBE’ is one of the best review channels I’ve encountered. I’m heading over to your Patreon now.
I hated it - haven't bothered with any of the other novels. I have been second guessing myself, considering it's rep, and I was reading in a bleak covid winter after a personal loss. Glad I'm not alone in my opinion.
That's interesting, i found this trilogy to be the greatest or one of the greatest sci fi books ever. I found the concepts especially in the 2nd and the 3rd book to be literally mind blowing and opening the world to a new view of life. Tbf i enjoyed the story from the very beginning, so it was really easy for me to continue. I wanna ask you if you read the project hail mary, because it has 4.5 on goodreads, everyone says its a masterpiece, but i found it really boring from the beginning. The unraveling of alien life was interesting, but the writing was so bad i wanted to just rip the pages to pieces.
@@stickyy_fingaas Read it, thought it OK. No firm opinions, beyond that I felt the protagonist's personality was too close to the Martian. I find GoodReads a very useful tool for tracking what I've read, but the ratings are beyond useless.
I read all three. Its a lot.... But there were some cool scenes, and there was a sadness and bleakness that was remarkable. The end of the third book is also haunting- I think about it a lot. I totally get why Bookpilled doesn't like it. He makes some good points. Interesting review.
I felt the way you feel about 3BP, about fahrenheit 451, the whole book is “my heart fluttered out like a butterfly”. But to everyone else that is a literary classic??? It’s a good book in terms of ideas and influence but it’s not the best written
Yes! I read it in Czech and it was bad too. I remember the main plot moment and the ending, I liked the depiction of the real time in space, but othervise it was looong an boring and I dont remember any characters, anything! I don`t know why it is recommended so much.
Hey! This might not really be up your alley normally as it's sort of gothic quasi fantasy but you should give the first gormenghast book a go. It's called Titus groan and it has the most beautiful prose i have ever read.
This novel isn't particularly your usual genre but have you ever read Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy? It's a piece of literary fiction (sorta? It's a fictionalized telling of very real historical events) and the prose is just on another level entirely.
I agree that McCarthy's prose is really unique. I don't really care for some of the content of his books, but the prose alone makes them worth reading. Love writers who can say a lot with just a few words. Another writer whose prose is outstanding(imo) is Hillary Mantel
i see that three body problem book get mentioned a lot on youtube and from what i know of the concept and idea of it. sounds ok but nothing i would rush out to read anytime soon. but electric forest does sound like a good one that i never heard of before so thank you
![I Convinced Myself To Read 5 Fantasy Books [100 Book Challenge #20-25]](/img/n.gif)
The full, uncut version of the Three-Body Problem review is available here:
www.patreon.com/bookpilled
Filmed in Bosque los Colomos, Guadalajara, Mexico.
I am 72 years old and have been reading sci fi since I was a young girl. I find your reviews refreshing and fair and love your lists of older sci fi (ha, it used to be contemporary fiction for me). I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of Three Body Problem. In a charitable mood, I agree that perhaps the quality of writing was lost due to translation failure, but at the end of the day, it is a boring story, with really unsympathetic characters. I cannot believe its popularity, given the tendency toward laziness in readers today. Readers cannot get through Foundation, or Foundation and Empire, nor can they read Russian classics. Three Body Problem is too much work for too little reward. I tried doing an Audio book, thinking it would make the story more accessible. I fall asleep usually within 15 minutes. I don't think I will live long enough to give this novel another attempt. Keep those amazingly entertaining reviews coming!
Having some problems with insomnia right now so maybe 3BP audiobook will help.
I can't tell you how much I look forward to your videos! They are so refreshing and enjoyable to watch. Lately I've been trying to get out of addiction to social media and have noticed I struggle to sit through vidoes but I have no problem putting things down and just taking time to watch what you put out. Appreciate the uploads and look forward to more :)
Please read more ultra popular books because its quite entertaining to feel your rage radiating from the screen🤩
i knew he would hate it he has too good of literary taste.
Matt was trying so hard to lay out logical points while his emotions were strangling him. It's like he was trying to walk with the twin toddlers of disgust and anger clinging to his legs. 😂
So satisfying.
Hahaa
He he that rant on the 3 body problem made me chuckle I knew you would hate it. Love the passionate response !You have a far more sophisticated reading palette that is is why the book of skulls and Solaris hit the spot . Keep that intensity Matt love it 🫡
I liked the Three Body Problem, and loved the Three Body Problem after I read the trilogy a second time. But you ARE NOT WRONG. Review is spot on. But I loved it. Go figure.
As someone who hated Ancillary Justice because it had lackluster characters and boring prose, I too bristled at apologists who said things to me along the lines of: “SciFi is about big ideas and Space Opera is traditionally light on character development.” To which I responded, “Nope. This book simply sucks and you all are just defending it because you have a four volume sunk cost into the series. Do not attempt your literary gaslighting on me.”
I don’t think you are being any better a person than they are, just accept you value different things
Just coming here to say I also hated Ancillary Justice. I didn't understand the hype or recommendation of that book. But, each to their own.
Ancillary was impossible.
I agree. I didn't like Ancillary Justice either. And no way should anyone have to read the three other books in any series to appreciate the first one. I can't imagine that reading any more from the same source could redeem the abysmal quality of TTBP.
@@danielgwynne7266 Perhaps not, but she does have better taste. 😁
I discovered you channel a few weeks ago, and I'd like to say thanks for all of the great suggestions for lesser known authors. I've always enjoyed sci-fi and fantasy books, but it's nice to get some suggestions for different books.
I completely agree! I’ve seen it talked about so much I had to give it a try and immediately after finishing it, I put it up for sale on eBay and erased it from my memory.
Agreed. I wish I could figure out a way to completely forget the experience of reading it.
@@rodcase1598 lobotomy.
Me too
This is perfect timing. I'm approaching the middle of "Book of Skulls" and felt my attention waning. Now, I'm motivated to finish. Thanks!
+1000 points for pulling off the line "then shouldn't we just be reading JSTOR". I laughed. Also points for pointing to Lem as someone who could do big ideas and great prose/stories at the same time.
I love TBP and I loved this video as well, lmao. It's very interesting to listen to a different opinion, and I completely agree about the writing. The characters have no personality whatsoever, but I really liked the context built around them. I think it's the first series I've read where I don't care at all about what's gonna happen with the characters 😂 It still blew my mind, especially the The Dark Forest. Thanks for sharing your honest thoughts about this!
I will not accept Da Shi slander. Also the characters are still a trillion times better than anyone from Asimov's or any other dozen classic american sci fi authors (and those always get a pass because 1-dimensional boring bad characters and asimov is such an ingrained concept in society that nobody cares anymore). I read the foundation trilogy less than 2 months ago and the three body problem trilogy over 2 years ago and at least I remember Da shi, Luo Ji, Chen Xin, AA, Tiamming, Wang, Ueid, Ye Wendjie, Del Rias, Thomas Wade, Zhang Beihai etc. I don't remember ANYONE from foundation apart from Mule.
@@user-ly2ll5od1r Da Shi ❤❤❤ He was so perfectly cast in the Chinese series.
The Dark Forest concept is cheap and makes no sense. No forest, ecosystem, hunter, etc. works that way, nor did human societies when finding ec other, even the most aggressive. It's AN idea, but there doesn't seem to be any reason for why it's used as the basis and context for the world in this book.
@@rickwrites2612 It makes enough sense that real astrophysicists accepted it as a plausible theory.
I find that most sci fi has bad character writing. It's almost a staple of the genre.
Bookpilled: "Solaris is like drinking the finest, the best, most artisanly roasted and prepared cup of coffee of your life, and Three-Body Problem is like someone microwaved a mug of tap water and threw some unground coffee beans in it and handed it to you." (5:35) 😅
Love the info. Have been burning through a lot of the books you have positively reviewed on this channel and mostly align with your feelings. I own TBP so I am interested to read a book you dislike to see if I am equally annoyed by it. My favorites so far from your page have been Neuromancer and I am in the middle of Solaris now and already love it. Again thanks for the thoughtful reviews.
Your imitations of your critics are always among the best parts of any video they appear in. 😂
I'm so glad you made this video, it means I don't have to make the one I was planning about this book. Life is too short to read the obviously overrated bestsellers of Genre SF, when far better books lie neglected for decades. It's like building a record collection- would you really do it based on what gets to number 1 in the singles charts? Endure the brickbats, my friend (I know you will).
Thanks Steve. Hope you still review it, I'm curious where your thoughts about it align with mine.
@@Bookpilled Hey Matt - well, Graham and I were both going to read it and discuss, but I'd been so put off by my reading of 'The Wandering Earth' some years back and the fact that my instinct said to me "This will suck," (and it's rarely wrong) that it may never happen, but we'll see. At the moment, your policy of 'stick to the old stuff' is one I'd advise keeping to. There is so little of any real literary merit once you get past the early 90s and...well, I could go on and on! Take care, my friend!
@@outlawbookselleroriginal @Bookpilled Like Matt, I'd like to hear you opine upon it as well, but I can *also* say "Truly, truly I say unto you; We hath suffer-ed that you mayn't have to."
It is a potentially clever exposition machine in search of a book & a half baked mystery (abandoned part way through for a third rate Bond-ish action set-piece ending tacked on) and a front heavy prologue about the Cultural Revolution does not a book make. (Unless you are a 20 something who never learned about the Cultural Revolution who thinks this stuff was original.) There's like 5 pages after the action set piece resolves where the characters "see something in the sky" which had the potential for greatness - in a 20 - 50 page short story. A few cool images or idea hooks early on. That's it.
CAVEAT LECTOR!!
@Bookpilled @Outlawbookselleroriginal If we are trying to save you from over-rated zeitgeist novels of poor construction and lack luster execution then avoid "Station Eleven" while you are at it, a YA made for TV adaptation in slow moving prose. Read boring post apocalypses like "On The Beach" or "Alas, Babylon" first, not because they are better, but at *least* because they were classics. Actually, never-mind that, they are also slow, and boring skip all three.
@@salty-walt I've read them all, the Frank and Shute many decades ago. Never again!
Your comments about TBP were very timely for me. I bought the paperback trilogy a couple months ago based upon its wild popularity, only to discover that like the Wheel of Time in the fantasy genre, being highly regarded by the *modern* masses might actually mean it's complete garbage. I'm most of the way through the 2nd book, and if anything, the Dark Forest is worse than TBP. I don't see myself finishing the series, even though I bought all 3 books.
I only discovered your channel a few weeks ago by accident, but I really enjoy your content. I've added a lot of sci-fi books to my wish list, based upon your comments and review. Best wishes.
I'm going to come in on a different tack here. 3 Body Problem is on a grand scale and it will lead the reader to consider some ideas about humanity that are novel. However, it probably isn't as great as some folks claim it is. Neither is it as bad as Matt makes it out to be. The book isn't for novice readers, I'll say that.
What a relief! I thought at first you were going to say you *liked* Three Body Problem. I couldn't even get through the first book and felt maybe I just didn't get it.
BTW I followed your recommendation and read A Fire Upon The Deep...excellent! I'm now deep into your #1 rated novel Blindsight and so happy to discover it. I've had to look up countless terms and it's not easy but the story and characters make the effort worth it. A vampire commander? So cool.
100% same. And also really liked A Fire Upon The Deep.
Have you tried A deepness in the sky, by Vernor vinge ? A great book
@@baptistejanin9615 I concur. What a great book
I’m in the process of recommending your channel to a friend. ...for many reasons. This kind of bravery to skewer the Darling du Jour is one such reason. Your recommendations have led me to many, many winners, and your critical reviews of books I disliked or hated also generally match up. But this one seals it (and agrees with other quality opinions): I’m not going to read TBP, nor watch it on Netflix. Life is too short. Thanks once again.
Don’t feel bad about saying Tanith Lee is a better writer than Dick. I never felt that PKD was a great writer. He was a great idea man. He was a great storyteller but I was never been blown away by his prose.
PDK short stories are ok. His novels are crap....how Ridley Scott got Blade Runner out of that dreary mess of a book I'll never know.
I'm extremely excited and happy to have found your channel, because I've been introduced to Sci Fi somewhat recently by Dune, and have been in a dive. I've mostly read the basic and popular novels, and I'm aware that the books I'm reading aren't the prime on building or writing. So a more experienced voiced is very welcoming. Now I have the largest list ever to catch up in the genre hahaha.
I did read 3PB and I did enjoyed. The clinical approach didn't bother me much, even tho is def bad writing, but I assume I am not a demanding reader, even tho I highly appreciate excellent and inspired writing when it comes to. As someone that doesn't speak English as a first language, the 3BP text was very accessible and the start permeating the context of the chinese cultural revolution for me were really gripping. The books get better (I promise) and he ending in Dark Forest shines so bright for me.
Thanks for taking your time reviewing this.
I agree with a lot of the criticisms. After finishing I also felt that it was overhyped. I too, hate the "big idea, no prose" response for SciFi. Point them to Leguin and they will see that isn't true. I was lukewarm on this book and the only reason I will probably read the next few is because of buddy reading. The only group I think this is for are the readers who enjoy philosophy.
Love philosophy hated TBP, so idk who the book is for lol
@@zachzackzakI also love philosophy and saw the moral dillema with the nihilistic approach liu took in regard to the first contact. It gets explored more in book 2 to great extents so I should say its more prevalent in the sequels
100% agree with you on 3 body problem - I made it through to the end through sheer bloody mindedness but ultimately I thought it was utter garbage, amazing what can now win an award.
Exactly right! I never feel that I can give a valid evaluation of a book unless I read the whole thing. I have seldom regretted the time I spent reading a book as much as I did with this one. A total waste of time and mental energy.
I love your pauses....not because I get tired of your commentary, but because the peace so perfectly frames your commentary. Thank You.
Love this video. The nature background is so much nicer than the fireplace in so many of your videos. BTW, I also hated the 3 Body Problem, and didn't get very far before throwing it out.
I dont care if you hated a book I loved or vice versa (it hasnt happened yet, but, whatever...) I just come for your honest, enthusiastic, passionate and often hilarious reviews! (Have to say, Ive agreed with most of them!!)
And yes, dammit, theres in no excuse for books of this genre not to be written as well, beautifully, lyrically, as any other genre. There are many examples, so NO PASSES!! I read 3BP (can I use that short form even if Im not such a huge fan?) and I enjoyed it and found some unique moments in there, but was eager to move on, and not to the sequels. Keep doin what youre doin BP ( I can use the short form 'cause Im such a huge fan!!) Love these reviews, and love the list of books-to-read you forced me to create!!!
I tried reading 3 Body Problem, and could not get past page 100. I am a compulsive book finisher and could not go further. I skipped pages, and delved in further on ...and did so again...To call the author "influenced by Arthur C Clarke" is an insult to Clark, whose imagination engaged me from the first sentence.
Excellent video! As I've said before for some strange reason I am now MORE interested or at least intrigued to read my copy of TBP (never read Cixin Liu, only familiar with Ken Liu's lovely short stories and fantasy novels). But returning to the point here, this video review was genuinely entertaining and instructive, jumping straight into your thoughts with critique as sharp and barbed as ever. *Your point on hard SF homework of big ideas vs. literary/literature merit/considerate prose along with that JSTOR journal article example was so SPOT ON. Great stuff
Don't read it! Just dont!
Don’t listen to other guy. You can read it and make up your own mind.
As ever, I deeply love your negative reviews!!! I really enjoyed the Three Body Problem and its sequels, but also get your points. I was also very skeptical due to the hype, but surprised myself by getting into the ideas (yes, not the prose or characters!). Also very intrigued by the Lee and Silverburg titles - you are my go-to recommender of under-appreciated but exceptional literature. And I can't thank you enough for the gorgeous, peaceful shots of Guadalajara! Balm of hurt minds....
I love listening to you when you are excited and animated. Giggle! I love your landscape background and the soothing sound of water.
After numerous stellar reviews from friends, yesterday, I finally decided to read the Three-Body Problem. By page 100, I was beginning to wonder when the book would start; by page 200, to spice things up, to escape from the bone-crushing boredom that is 3-BP, I went to my bathroom and read the labels on shampoo bottles. I will not be reading another page.
Great comment!😁
Back a few years ago, when I hadn't heard of the Gollancz SF Master series and I didn't know your channel, I wanted to read more good SF and didn't know what to look for. I was recommended TBP and never really managed to get into it.
Guess I can let go of that ambition now that I am in a much better position when it comes to looking for new SF books to read. Thank you.
I liked the strange writing. It felt very foreign and weird.
I like that sometimes, it reminds me of the feeling I got reading the Book of the New Sun.
You should start more of your videos with a review of a best seller or lauded newer modern book. Highly entertaining. I always appreciate your off the beaten path reviews but often wish I knew what you might say about something more dominant in the mainstream of current sci-fi, or fantasy. This video was a good balance of both.
I loved all three of the Remembrance of Earth's Past novels. I really like your channel (and have added several books to my reading list based on your recommendations) but often find that your opinions are at odds with my own. Art, music, and literature are like that though, there is something for everyone. I appreciate your criticism even if we don't always agree.
Absolutely agree about 3BP. I gave up on the Kindle version about a third of the way through, then managed to finish the Audible version. That's some hours of my life I won't get back. I too wondered if it's a problem of translation, but I really don't think it is.
Why keep reading a book that you loathe? I found it to be a super engaging page turner from like page 20 or so. After Wang started seeing a countdown burned into his retina I legitimately couldn't put it down (like how do you even come up with this shit Liu Cixin?) The three body game sections did kill the pacing a bit, but that's such a small problem in an overall gripping plot. The writing is functional and gets some decent "poetic" descriptions across. People pretend like the writing is the worst thing since the holocaust, I read it in Lithuanian translated from English and it was fine. I am not expecting Blood meridian from a silly sci fi book about an alien invasion. The writing was fine, the attempts comparing human feelings to environental effects ("she felt like a pillar ice" when describing that someone feels sad) were pretty cringe, but there was barely a handful of them (maybe 4 or 5, which is much better than most other Chinese books I've read, that's literally just their writing style) in the entire book. It's simply written in a very objective, clear and easy to understand way while describing some pretty complex shit. It barely uses any if at all "poetic" language and it was even unironicaly pretty funny sometimes, I would go as far as to say the writing was better than Dune, which I assume was an actual fault on the translation.
A simple line like " they tried to take my son's life away"
was translated into Lithuanian like "Jie bande atimti is mano sunaus gyvastį" which basically translates to "they tried to steal my sons aliveness" It was also the final sentence of a chapter and it felt like a punchline, I was rolling on the ground laughing after I closed to the book.
Anyway fuck you 3 body problem is good
bye
You planted the seed of Tanith Lee in my brain here when I first saw this months ago. Soon after, I stumbled across several of her DAWs and even some hardcovers. I now own 22 of them!
Dawn by Octavia Butler, Blood Music by Greg Bear, The Genocides by Thomas Disch, Roadside Picnic by the Strugatsky Bros., The Mote in God's Eye by Niven/Pournelle, were all fantastic. Also Lucifer's Hammer by Niven/Pournelle was excellent but I can't remember if you recommended that one? I never would have read any of those until watching a few of your videos and you're batting a thousand so far. Super impressive. I have a few more of your recommendations lined up yet, but I just wanted to thank you for all of those!
Have you read anything by Jack McDevitt? I just read The Engines of God and it was very serviceable. It is the antidote to the mess that was Alien Prometheus, in so far as it deals with real archaeology and real scientists investigating ancient space cultures and ancient ruins on distant planets in a way that is scientifically realistic and also with a narrative that is logical yet compelling. Somewhat reminiscent of Arthur C. Clarke without being derivative of his work or style.
If I knew how to create a gif, my first would be of you doing the Spirit Halloween spooky skeleton dance. Thank you for the lulz
Thank you! Good to see you in good health and natural scenery looks great. Great reviews as usual. TBP is very weak book in terms of writing. It got some interesting ideas, but that doesn't save it from dullness. Also I don't think that translation is the case. For example we got plenty of books translated from Japanese and prose there is great and beautiful.
I agree completely. I was able to finish it, but I got to the end and couldn't care less about going on to the other two books. It wasn''t quite as bad as Ready, Player One, but almost. Your description of the plot as glacial was spot on. I couldn't keep the characters straight because they had no personalities whatsoever. The book was a physics textbook thinly disguised as a novel.
Thank you. I tried reading the Three Body Problem and could not get through it, and then I tried listening to it and could not get through it. I'm done with it.
Love seeing someone else discover Tanith Lee :) A pleasure to find your review!
I don't read sci fi at all, but I enjoy watching your channel soooo much. Im planning to start reading something from your recommendations.
Totally agree with you on TBP. Having said that I have noticed that you have a mild bias against longer & slower books in general. I enjoy a good brick sometimes, embrace the doorstop!
I really enjoyed TBP and its sequels, but I certainly can't dispute with the flaws that turn some people away.
Thanks for the recommendations! I've added them to my already-too-long TBR queue.
I stumbled upon your channel tonight, specifically your review of Book of the New Sun. I enjoyed that and while I like Shadow of the Torturer, my thoughts and crits largely align with yours. This led me to browse your videos and this is the one I chose next. And I am in complete agreement with you, and I respect that you are saying so in the face of what seems like near-universal adulation. I think that there is definitely something lost in translation but to your point, my suspicion is there wasn't much lost. I ultimately gave up on the book, and just went to the wiki to get a sense of the "Big Ideas". Some are indeed interesting, but I am unwilling to pay the reading cost to be disappointed in how little they are likely actually explored.
Liked and subbed.
Thanks a lot man! I got stuck after 150 pages, but due to all the hype I did not get myself around to actually giving it up - until I saw this vid.
I tried. I really did, but I had to abandon TBP unfinished. I didn't even bother to notice how far I got, I was that bored by it. I read The Electric Forest as a teen and was blown away by it.
After watching many of your videos, I have concluded you have a particular set of criteria that you apply to the novels you read. So I am not surprised that you hated Three Body Problem. I read it and I didn't hate it or love it. I read it so that I would know what everybody's talking about, but now a couple of years later l can barely remember the story. I loved this review.
Well, I guess I'll read Electric Forest before I read 3BP. 😂I read The Book of Skulls about a month ago. I'd never actually read Silverberg before and was kinda blown away. Specifically one monologue from Eli while they're in Chicago I believe.
OMFG thank you! I have tried to explain my hate for the Three Body Problem and people just gave me "the look." I liked the first character and her life and then the second POV came in and I hated everything about being in their head. The game environment felt so clumsy like a mocking version of Snow Crash (which I also didn't really love). I just didn't care enough to continue reading. Ended up giving it to a used bookstore to get it away from me.
After taking your recommendations on books like ‘A mote in Gods eye’ and finding them enthralling, I will totally bow to your informed opinion on this book series.
My wife and I had the same issues with book that you had. Can’t move on in the series.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said it's like just reading jstor or doing homework. I personally loved TBP but it was the first scifi series I read while all I was used to reading was jstor and textbooks.
I 100% agree about 3BP. I kept trying to give it a 'pass' because of translation, but it just... fails. Suddenly my faith in Hugo and Nebula Award lists is shaken.
My faith in those awards was shaken by 1970.
"Suddenly" 😹 Half the Nebula award books I found to be unreadable.
The original chinese is considered badly written among chinese readers + ken liu is a good writer from what ive read of his + the author actually says the english translation is an improvement
It was third in my voting form for the Hugos. Remember it was a puppy affected year.
I thought the translation is part of what made it interesting. It was the boring one of the series. Dark Forest and Deaths End are scary
I fully agree about Lee and Dick (and Kavan!)
And really, anything by Tanith Lee - be it SF, fabtasy or horror - is a great read.
i completely agree with you on the Liu series, and I read all the books. I wish I could get the the time back. Some of the sci-fi tech ideas were interesting. The Dark Forest idea may well be true, but its not his and what it looks like in this series is pretty dopey. That 1970ish Silverberg stuff is great. It will survive.
I knew from excerpts that TBP was poorly written and that the quality improved in later books, so I spoiled everything online and skipped straight to Death’s End, which was a great book. Will I go back and read the first two books? Probably not, but Death’s End was pretty awesome on its own.
As someone who JUST finished reading the entire trilogy because people kept saying "you need read them all to get it", yeah.... no. I should have just stopped at 3BP and called it good.
For the record, I hated the whole thing. Didn't bother to waste my time on it after 1/2 of the first book. Stink, stank, stunk. I'm with you 100%
I watched the videos of that guy who was so jazzed by it, also. Still stunk. (Quinn's Ideas was the channel, I think.) Anyway, the slipcase looks good on the shelf, so there's that. 😆
Quinn is great, but I don’t think he’s read Blood Music and Niven. Which is a shame. He’s still not as great in his reading palate.
When I finished the Three Body Problem, I was baffled by all the rave reviews. I wondered if I'd picked up another book called The Three Body Problem by mistake and everyone else was raving about a different book than the one I just read. While I didn't hate it, I was left with no desire to continue reading the trilogy.
I guess I have to subscribe because you're one of the only book reviewers I've ever heard say that the Three Body Problem kinda sucks, and I completely agree.
ELECTRIC FOREST, DAY BY NIGHT (also by Tanith Lee) and BOOK OF SKULLS were among the books that got the teen me into SF. I reread them as an adult and was so impressed by how well written they were, and would recommend them to anyone. Good and accurate analysis. Lee was popular in her lifetime but didn't get the acclaim she did for her style, which is as far from the evolved-pulp/Hemingway-esque straightforward-dry style of so much SF. Silverberg had a streak of about 8 books in the late sixties/early seventies that is just amazing even today for the scope and quality of the books.
Three body problem: I bought the trilogy books all at once. First book took me forever to read because I read at night and kept feeling asleep. I angrily decided to start the second book because I had paid for it. It's like a different person wrote it! I got hooked immediately! Much better expansion of world building and quite interesting ideas. So it's kinda true, you have to get through the first book to get to the good parts in the sequel books.
For me, Dark Forest is the best of the series. (i know, i know, I am “read the sequel” guy here) It was also the one book that wasn’t translated by Ken Liu, so maybe that is why I liked that one so much. Dark Forest is also the one that gets into the interesting science fiction and futurism elements. I still, years later, still think of space scenes from that book. But, the time jumps throughout the series do make it really hard to have a coherent plot, pacing, and character development.
I agree, I never got behind the idea that the "big ideas" can make up for poor writing and a lack of plot. There are plenty of author's who can do both (such as LeGuin and Vernor Vinge). I choose "soft" sci-fi with great writing over hard sci-fi with bad writing every time.
I am a 72 yr old retiree and a life-time bookworm. I agree with your assessment of 3 Body Problem. I tried to read it twice and both times found it boring and a hard read. And I love long books. No problem with that. Has to be a problem with translation.
I have to say your review of 3 body problem helped explain to me why I read the first book, then bought the second but still haven't picked it up in like over a year. I found book one kinda interesting but nothing about it grabbed me. I figured maybe one just has to read the full series to really get it, but I can't seem to find the energy just yet. I'm curious though, what is it, what psychological or sociological explanation is there for such broad praise and popularity for 3 body?
I'm subscribing just because of your three body problem review. Everyone seems to love it and I struggled to finish it. And absolutely agree I would not read a series that sucks at book one to get to a point I like it... Or feel like i should like it cuz I wasted so much time on it.
I always find it entertaining watching people discuss Book Of Skulls because I read it when I was a teenager and all I remember about it was "yeah it was good". Will have to re-read.
I would love to see a video about some more modern SF, I have found myself sticking to the older works, as my ventures into newer works have been consistently dissapointing.
I read Book of Skulls about 15 or so years ago and it was unique experience in my reading up to that point. Different to anything had read to that point, and I agree it could just as easily fall in to regular fiction, horror or fantasy. I was very interested in hearing your opinion on it, thank you; I will also add Tanith Lee to my ever-expanding reading list now as she sounds like a really interesting author to explore
I have never had any interests in reading Three Body Problem based on a lot of opinions of online reviewers and who have seemingly similar tastes to myself in the past - and after watching this I am even less inclined to waste time reading something that is likely to offer very little return on the time invested in it.
I should have waited to comment until you got to Tanith Lee. She wrote some great science fiction among all the fantasy (which she was also brilliant). I can recommend Don't Bite the Sun and Drinking Sapphire Wine. I don't remember if you liked Jack Vance or not, but some of her fantasy was on that level.
You said it. The "yeah but..." response to "this book sucks" followed by its from another language, it's hard SF, it's above your head, it's the idea, and so on. These are statements from ppl who love the concept of the book in totality regardless of the final result. They are in love with the idea of a foreigner killing it in a big way. Then try to hide behind hard sf when readers don't like it. As if the readers have never read something challenging before. It was around this time when I completely stopped reading into the authors at all. The book must stand on its own without the authors prowess, for whatever reason, to hold it up. This has greatly reduced the DNFs.
Purchased the book just a few days ago based on a friend's recommendation - I'll still read it, but man do I have almost zero interest now.
I agree with the general sentiment of many of your points, about disregarding the quality of the writing in sci-fi or fantasy, about lacklustre commonplace similes, all that made wholeheartedly enjoy this video :D
But now I wonder about the books popularity and I REALLY want to know what exactly people see in it. So I'll read it!
Haven't read this one, but Tanith Lee is an amazing writer. I've read so many of her short stories at this point (she must have hundreds of them) and a couple of her novels. I don't know that it's controversial to think she is a better prose stylist than Dick -- I feel like most anybody who has read them both would have to agree -- but prose style is not the most important factor to a lot of readers. Even though I think I might be more forgiving of "pulpy" stuff than you, I'm generally with you -- it's pretty damn important to me that something have an engaging and powerful style.
If you, like me, have been reading S.F. (science fiction) for over 45 years and keep coming across a special type of enthusiastic comments and reviews, your instinct tells you in advance, that certain books are completely overrated and actually quite weak. These books often only aim to mimic much better originals and regularly focus on surface effects but are unable to recognize the true meaning and quality and character drawing of the original work. A good example from the past was "Snow Crash" by Neil Stephenson, where he attempted to surpass the style and action of William Gibson and others from the 80s - but achieved little more than stringing together one exaggerated cliché after another, making everything faster, bigger, louder and (actually not) cooler. And I had the same feeling as back then when I read what many of it's fans had to say about "The Three-Body Problem." a couple of years ago.
One thing that reliably points to b.s. nowadays is the sheer size of books and trilogies etc. The authors - and unfortunately a rising amount of readers - don't grasp that BIG ideas don't require big volumes. The biggest ideas are best incubated in the small form of short stories and novellas and need to grow and unfold nowhere else than in the mind of the reader. The author who achieves this is a great one. Authors who need thousands of pages to convey a 'big' idea, on the other hand, are more likely to be penny-a-liners.
Thanks for that. I listened to the audiobook of 3BP. It was ok, that's about it. You nailed it on the characters, or lack thereof.
I was looking forward to it and to be honest, it was a let down.
It reminds me of a saying about quality/popularity.
I coincidentally finished The Book of Skulls this week too. I loved it. It somehow felt both dated and contemporary at the same time. I can see how the more "sensitive" readers would find it distasteful but it never bothered me. Whenever it did drift more toward the distasteful I just chalked it up to its time period and "that's Silverberg." It was also the perfect length and paced very well. I would put it just ahead of Dying Inside as my favorite Silverberg.
I fully agree with your assessment on TBP. I really tried - but I could not finish it and have zero interest in reading any subsequent books.
I'm currently about 3/4 through it. Good enough to finish, but nothing to rave about. Yes, I agree about the writing. I was avoiding the book because so much depends on translation. It has a lot of flowery language, which I'm familiar with from reading Chinese classics like Outlaws From the Marsh, Journey to the West, etc. It's not my style preference. Would I start it from zero knowing what it's turned out to be? Nah, there's just too much to read in life. Choose wisely, my friends.
As soon as I saw your video for 3BP show up I thought "Oh goody!" I read it a year or two ago based on a recommendation and, while I didn't hate it as much as you, I was pretty disappointed. I found there were a few interesting elements like the science blocking interference with human development. The first part was interesting in that I had never read any SF based in China, particularly that period. The weird virtual "game" was bewildering enough to keep me wondering what was going on for a while. All in all it was pretty ponderous, but I thought I'd try the second one to see where it went with the setup.
While most reviews I've seen say The Dark Forest is the best of the three, it left a really bad taste in my mouth. It seemed even more ponderous that the first, and the characterization was poor, but I haven't heard anyone discuss one major problem I had with it. There seemed to be a foundational assumption of predetermination built into it that I just couldn't buy. In retrospect it manifested in 3BP in the whole idea that by blocking one area of physics, all significant progress could be halted... okay, I guess I can go with that for the story's sake. But I feel like the philosophy shows up in many aspects of the book from the plot to the characterization. But most obviously, the idea that an entire field of science could be derived from a handful of basic axioms, and the implications would be so incontrovertible that there was no escaping arriving at the same conclusions, to the point that multiple people would jump to the same course of morally problematic actions, almost simultaneously in one case, was hard to swallow. I'm pretty good at swallowing my disbelief when it is needed to get to the good parts, but so much of the book was colored by this sense of unjustifiable determinism that there weren't many good parts left. SPOILER: Not that it really matters to the plot aside from illustrating it's implausibility, but don't get me started on greeting an openly hostile superior and mysterious power by lining up your entire fleet in a tidy grid and waiting for them to arrive.
Anyway, I selfishly wish you would read the next book just so I can know if I'm being unreasonable :-)
Now that you've admitted a distaste for the Three Body Problem I need only convince you that Heinlein is actually pretty good to bring our tastes into perfect alignment.
Come to the UK and we'll fuck about in Hay on Wye until you're sufficiently convinced.
Interesting take! My uncle said he wasn’t impressed with it at all. He’s read an absolute mountain of science fiction books and said it was just incredibly dull with poor character development. I’ve yet to read it and will make up my own mind as to what I think but this isn’t the first time I’ve heard it getting a hammering 😂
This review seems about right. Not read it myself but I read _Ball Lightening_ and thought it mildly bad. There were two or three ideas that made me say." oh wow "; those moments were just about enough to keep me reading. Also enough to stop me reading TBP.
Thank you for the honest and insightful review of Three Body Problem. I reacted to it with the same mixed feelings that I had to Asimov’s Foundation. Your ‘TUBE’ is one of the best review channels I’ve encountered. I’m heading over to your Patreon now.
I hated it - haven't bothered with any of the other novels. I have been second guessing myself, considering it's rep, and I was reading in a bleak covid winter after a personal loss. Glad I'm not alone in my opinion.
That's interesting, i found this trilogy to be the greatest or one of the greatest sci fi books ever. I found the concepts especially in the 2nd and the 3rd book to be literally mind blowing and opening the world to a new view of life. Tbf i enjoyed the story from the very beginning, so it was really easy for me to continue.
I wanna ask you if you read the project hail mary, because it has 4.5 on goodreads, everyone says its a masterpiece, but i found it really boring from the beginning. The unraveling of alien life was interesting, but the writing was so bad i wanted to just rip the pages to pieces.
@@stickyy_fingaas Read it, thought it OK. No firm opinions, beyond that I felt the protagonist's personality was too close to the Martian. I find GoodReads a very useful tool for tracking what I've read, but the ratings are beyond useless.
@@vortimer2351 i haven't read the martian but im gonna watch the movie and if i like it maybe I'll give project hail mary another shot
I admit it. I've been waiting for this video, and you didn't disappoint.
Agreed. Purchased a copy of The Three Body... in the summer, gave up like halfway through, it's not worth your time if you're into hard SF 😐
I read all three. Its a lot.... But there were some cool scenes, and there was a sadness and bleakness that was remarkable. The end of the third book is also haunting- I think about it a lot. I totally get why Bookpilled doesn't like it. He makes some good points. Interesting review.
Haven't read these, just love your reviews. And the scenery.
I felt the way you feel about 3BP, about fahrenheit 451, the whole book is “my heart fluttered out like a butterfly”. But to everyone else that is a literary classic??? It’s a good book in terms of ideas and influence but it’s not the best written
Yes! I read it in Czech and it was bad too. I remember the main plot moment and the ending, I liked the depiction of the real time in space, but othervise it was looong an boring and I dont remember any characters, anything! I don`t know why it is recommended so much.
Digging the nature setting with the reviews!
Hey! This might not really be up your alley normally as it's sort of gothic quasi fantasy but you should give the first gormenghast book a go. It's called Titus groan and it has the most beautiful prose i have ever read.
“It almost read how I imagine a John Grisham novel would read,” is my new favorite literary compliment. 😂
This novel isn't particularly your usual genre but have you ever read Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy? It's a piece of literary fiction (sorta? It's a fictionalized telling of very real historical events) and the prose is just on another level entirely.
I agree that McCarthy's prose is really unique. I don't really care for some of the content of his books, but the prose alone makes them worth reading. Love writers who can say a lot with just a few words.
Another writer whose prose is outstanding(imo) is Hillary Mantel
i see that three body problem book get mentioned a lot on youtube and from what i know of the concept and idea of it. sounds ok but nothing i would rush out to read anytime soon. but electric forest does sound like a good one that i never heard of before so thank you