You’re 14 & 15 are two of my favorite novels of all time! Player of Games is my fav! I tried to read your fav short book (you seem to only like short books) and couldn’t finish it! We have exact opposite tastes. So everybody don’t listen necessarily… these books he puts down are amazing novels!
@@tumblodryay1189 While i did largely enjoy Fire Upon Deep. I didn't love it i mean as I was reading i just felt like it could have been reading a middling culture novel. It certainly wasnt anywhere as enjoyable as Player Of Games or Look To Windward. It also took a while getting used to Vernor Vinge's writing style but that's me.
I don't know if the title is applying to every book on the list, but Player of Games is definitely NOT 500+ pages lol I just checked my copy and it's not even 400 pages. Am I missing something?
Can’t stand bloat in books, I don’t mind scientific analysis like in Solaris with pages of planetary observations, but bloat for bloats sake. No thanks.
I was able to get a Kindle copy of *Stern der Ungeborenen* from Amazon in German (obviously!), but I didn't see whether it was available in English. It's very good, I agree!
Thanks for your thoughts on "A Deepness in the Sky". Was wondering if I should read that. Just got done with 2 of your recommendations "A Fire upon the Deep" (which I loved), and the somewhat more disturbing "Tiger Tiger", which I also loved and was surprised at it's seeming modernity. When reading the first part, as Gully is first stagnantly surviving in the Nomad and then moved to action. I was wondering if this was one of arsenals exploited by the Expanse authors. The later description of Gully's enhancements were so similar to Clarissa Mao's enhancements that there is no doubt that this was one of the Expanse's resources (along with Heinlein's Rolling Stones, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and other early works.) I had read the Demolished Man, perhaps 20 or so years ago, and Bester was as polished and terse a writer as I remembered. Thanks much!
I actually agree with you on “Player of Games” and “Consider Phlebas” but “Look to Windward” is one of my favorite books along with “A Fire Upon the Deep” and “Aristoi”
Franz Weefewl was also famous for being maried, for a while to Alma Mahler Gropius Werfel, the wife of Mahler (composer) , Gropius (architect), and Werfel. With many many affairs between marriages.
This was great. I am surprised by Player of Games, I am not surprised by Pandora's Star (although it's one of my favorite science fiction novels*), I have had The Sparrow on my shelf to read for years & you're the first person to say they didn't like it (which is interesting).
I live in Germany and I bought Star of the Unborn because of a recommendation from one of your older videos. Will definitely check it out soon :) although it was Werfel's only scifi book, his other books are totally worth checking out. But currently I am reading Dying of the Light by GRRM and I'm loving it
In Eon the Naderites was a conservative religious/political group of future humans in The Way. Eon was written in the 80's when Nader was a popular activist and political figure. I actually liked what Bear did there, its one of my favorites. Totally agree on what you said about Red Mars. Another one of my favorites!
My Player of Games is around 300 pages. Regardless of different editions, it didn't feel like a long book to me. Consider Phlebas could have been a bit shorter, I think. And Use of Weapons felt a lot longer than it was and I loved it.
I wasn't a fan of revelation space either but the next books just keep getting better and better in my opinion. You can tell it was his first novel, for me it was the character work that was letting it down, only thing kept me going with it was the amazing ideas he explains in it.
Hey, wanna just drop it here. You made me read "A Fire upon the Deep" and I loved it. Currently reading "A Deepness in the Sky". Also like it so far (60% in), but I think Vinge made the Spiders too human-like - which is kind of a missed opportunity. But I guess imagine a 'real' alien culture is hard. The Tines and Skroderiders where exceptional in that regard. The Spiders are not.
Revisited my local downtown used bookstore haven't been to in years, really wish I could have brought you with me! Got into a great sci-fi chat with the person working and she even showed me their secret sci-fi collectibles. Thanks for adding some confident options to my TBR! Spotted another Aldiss there too. "Life in the West" a hardcopy. Cheers Bookpilled. Enjoy Mexico!
Thanks for another nice video Matt. As always I don't agree with everything - I like Player of Games better than A Fire Upon the Deep - but Gladys super thoughtful and insightful video. I'm curious - have you ever read Ursula Le Guin's 500+ pages book, Always Coming Home? It's one of those that I could imagine you really like it really hate.
Finished Hyperion a day or 2 ago after it being a long TBR. I really loved the first half. But wow, I just did not have the same enthusiasm for the last 2 Tales especially and didn't even know what to think of the ending. Would read the priests tale separately again though. Also liked the war one and the scholars one with the child. It felt like exciting concepts that did not pay off by the end. Still looking forward to the next eventually.
I know I’m in the minority but I didn’t care for Hyperion. I loved the first story but the rest left me cold. And I loathed The Fall of Hyperion. I guess these books are just not for me.
@@DanExploresBooks exactly, great ideas but very uneven and with some atrocious parts, the first, Hyperion I remember liking, but the end made me physically ill. Ive read the following three books but they were not as good. What I really liked was his Illium, end sort of lacluster but the first two thirds was some of the best scfi Ive ever read.
@@totalassuage that is great to hear. Illium is one I have had on my list for a long time. Dan Simmons is definately a very talented writer. Hyperion just fell flat by the end for me.
When I started reading The Mote In Gods Eye my first reaction was that Eric Nylund must have been heavily influenced by it before he wrote the Halo books
@@thedumbdog1964 you would probably like The Mote in God’s Eye then. The military sci fi is all very similar. Even certain characters in the Fall of Reach feel almost copy-pasted, not in a bad way
One of the things I like about good older science fiction is how much shorter and crisper it could be, before SF went down the fantasy route of long series of massive volumes. However, I do have several of these on my list to reread, sometime, probably, when I find the time, certainly including the Hyperion books, KSR's Mars books, and also Brian Aldiss' Helliconia books. Also, I'd like to put in a word for _Ash_ by Mary Gentle. You might not feel it qualifies because I think in the US it was released as a series of four or five volumes, but in the UK it came out as a single, 1,000 page doorstop. It is mainly historical fantasy, set in a heavily researched medieval Europe, about the female leader of a troop of mercenaries, (and Gentle works very hard to make that seem realistic despite the implausibility, though she also makes the implausibility part of the story). But it also has SF elements, alternate history, and it's a story within a story with speculation about time, reality and the nature of historical truth. I found the story thrilling, but also dealing with complex ideas. As far as I recall, it's very good. But I won't be sure of that until I get back into it...sometime.
I heard a lot of praise of " Ash : A Secret History " , also, her Orthe series ( Golden Witchbreed etc.. ) It was A. Tchaikowsy who praised them in interview on Moid's channel
This is the problem affecting modern literature as a whole. Long books, but lacking density, in the end just being fast food for consumerism. It's no wonder that when I read a book written more than thirty years ago I find myself thinking and analyzing much more, even if it is a very short book, when compared to modern slops unable to deliver any mental nourishment despite hundreds of pages and sequels.
You may have saved me a dull read in The Sparrow, a recent acquisition. It was cheap, so no harm, no foul. Great list, even taking into account the Banks Heresy! Funny how PFH is so polarising, I really like his books. They're super schlocky but fun. And heavy. I read AFUTD recently and really enjoyed it. BAD DOGGIES. Chapeau sir, great work.
haha ive read thousands and thousands of books, and have maybe 3 i didnt finish, i cant even remember its so rare but i am 100% that one of them was the sparrow!
I’ve been enjoying your channel, especially for finding works I hadn’t heard of before. I picked up The Forever War from another of your videos and blew through it in a couple days, loved it. I would love to hear your take on Too Like The Lightning by Ada Palmer. It’s the first in a quartet which I consider some of the best I the genre (just ahead of Hyperion…).
I'm one of those who doesn't think much of Dune(then again, I don't like The Beatles...) Maybe because I read it while on an almost month-long cruise up the Brazilian coast, so I was usually too exhausted at the end of the day to read more than a few pages. But it was hyped as creating "the most original world" etc., and yet it had a sand planet where people seemed like bedouins, with arab- sounding names and culture. What, Lawrence of Arabia in space, is THAT it?!? And as always with Herbert, just a tad pretentious, imo. Anyway, I don't hate it, but it's not on my Top Ten list... Check out Poul Anderson's Tau Zero. Fascinating stuff.
I read Dune when it was still an 80 pound weakling (okay, it had won a Nebula and a Hugo) and I think it's a really fine piece of work but not a radiant timeless masterpiece. I was suitably peeved to see Herbert succumb to the commercial pressure (as I saw it) to produce more Dune books. The ones I read (up to Chapter House, I think) weren't in any way substandard.... just unnecessary. Maybe I'm just easily underwhelmed.
My friend wrote her dissertation on Stern der Ungeborene. There is a pdf available in German. There's something there about what to do with post-war Germany. The utopian dreams of East Germany help explain some of it
Good to see someone else who finds PFH and IMB a bit bloated, and uninteresting. I thought it was just me - I think we're in the minority. For what it's worth I didn't really enjoy House of Suns (felt bloated to me in a similar way to PFH and IMB). I thought Revelation Space was more interesting.
Please read Anathem. Ian M Banks puts me to sleep. Read Mote in God's Eye 35 years ago... remembered it for a very long time... Could not get through Dune. Infinite Jest could be classified as SF. Highly recommend!
Are you still keen on reading crime fiction? If so, I would suggest you to try the Mongolian Conspiracy by Rafael Bernal, it's the best noir novel written in Mexico and I'm pretty sure that reading it while you travel the city should be an interesting experience
That's a nice list. I agree with you about Hamilton. I read Pandora's Star in translation when I was learning German, and it really wasn't great-and it was clearly not the translation that was the problem. I haven't read River of Gods yet, but I finished McDonald's Moon (Luna) trilogy-again in German-and I found it good to start with, but it fade out, and it this weird werewolf substory that didn't really make a lot of sense. It definitely felt like he was writing for a TV show. I love Banks, but I found the first two books in the Culture not great. Look to Windward is my favorite, but it's one of those books that you'll either love or hate. I have grown to hate Dan Simmons as an author. He tends to start a series very strongly-this was particularly noticeable in his Mars books where the first was amazing the second barely readable. Red Mars is one of my favorite scifi books, A deepness in the Sky and A Deepness in the Sky. Have you read his Singularity books? They are a lot of fun. Two that are worth mentioning are Cixin Liu's The Dark Forest trilogy-I particularly like book 2-and Perdido Street Station by China Miéville (though that's perhaps better classified as fantasy.
I haven't read a ton of these, but I really enjoyed Peter F. Hamilton's Night's Dawn trilogy. Has a great take on near-future sci-fi set in the 2600s, where humanity is just starting to colonize a bunch of worlds. A space opera in every sense.
Player of Games isn't even 300 pages long. Just saying. It's my favourite Ian M. Banks novel. Read Revelation Space and found it too lacking in character buildup to continue reading the author. I read Hyperion but it didn't wow me. I started on Red Mars but it was too technical for me. I found Dune to be okay but I don't really care for any of the character and while the world building is good, it's not enough for me to continue the 'series'.
Ranking close to my taste, but I would place Hyperion somewhat higher - apart from A Priest's tale and The Scholar's tale, The Consul's Tale - Remembering Siri also stands out. And of course Parts 3 & 4 of the Hyperion Cantos - Endymion and the Rise of Endymion are also members of the "500 club".The very first sentence of Endymion is my favourite: "You are reading this for the wrong reason."
The consul's tale is rarely mentioned for some reason. I would probably tie it with, or rank it above, the scholar's tale. I think it's the *shock value* of the priests tale that makes it stand out from the rest.
I like how you don't give service to classics just because they're classics. I have to say the end of green Mars and blue Mars are better than red Mars. Also, I appreciate every video of SF you post.
I gotta say Dan Simmon’s weird shitty politics throughout Hyperion as I’m reading it - is doing my head in. I just can’t handle how cooked it is. I just got up to the noir detective plot and gosh the poet’s story (he became a sex satyr?!) I cant.
Your list looks very good. Thanks for the time you spent reading these. It's not always easy. Particularly in the 1960s, but including the 1970s and some later decades, I did read the obligatory long novels. Not many of those until the 1980s! The Boat of a Million Years was a bit Bored to a Million Tears. Anderson did write some good stuff. His long hatred of Americans was off-putting to me. Stand on Zanzibar. Read roughly 1970, but I did not keep it. It seemed idiotically absurd at the time, with no characters worth their salt. Little did I know that detrimental to the nation supposed "US" politicians would literally destroy the national economy thru every idiotic policy possible, for foreign interest's benefit over the next 50 years... Dune was very interesting. I also read the parody version, hilarious. With the interminable and eternally long sequels, I began to move on. The Mote In God's Eye is once again on my desk. Some of the character's seemed irrational or dense 40 years ago and kinda ruined their credibility, as I recall. I will try it again. I guess I should give Vinge another attempt. The Booktubers have really recommended Simmons, I read his Flashback over the last 2 weeks. I felt it was pretty well thought out, a bit sensational, too rude, too long, too easily wrapped up and needing a to the point sequel. He is probably "too" old now and got in some hot water for this one. I do not find his very weak recantation of the work credible. If you read the book, you will see why. I will try Hyperion next. Nader was a common topic on the news, back then. As I recall he even poked fun at himself on SNL? Checking... Yep, he sure did!
It's interesting that A Fire Upon the Deep was one of the worst SF books I've ever read while the Sparrow was actually really good, refreshing and unique. I wanted to like Vinge but it was very "trite" to me, even dull sometimes. The writing was bad, uneven and stylistically poor, and it seemed it was done by a very inexperienced writer. Sparrow, on the other hand, is not a literary masterpiece either, but it was much more pleasant to read.
I HATE Hyperion. The only female characters are the backwards growing baby and the detective that had male seed implanted into her to be on the journey. Nothing fine about it. The poet is insufferable. I had to vent.
We have very different favourites but I've read some real bangers from your recommendations. You've helped me pick up sci-fi after a pretty long break, just with the way you talk about books, so thanks.
Great list of books. Thanks for actually having opinions, being concise and being thoughtful with your reviews. I love Banks, so yeah... agree to disagree. A Fire Upon the Deep is amazing.
I read A Fire Upon the Deep about a year ago, and it’s one of those that has really stuck with me. The greatest thing about books is, each person creates unique mental imagery that can be so incredibly rich. The landscape this book painted in my head will be with me for a long, long time. One of the very best SF reads.
Umm, are you reading these in large print editions ? Cuz I disagree with your opinion fairly often but i'm pretty sure this is the first time i've disagreed with your _page counts_ :). (the edition of 'The Player of Games' I have is 309 pages and I can't find one online that's over 400) ((agreed on 'Dune' though - good book but for me not the masterpiece that it is for some))
I will keep banging the Banks drum, at least until you try Use of Weapons! I can understand not finishing Phlebas though, as that one really is too long (has one of his best endings though, for my money). But a good list, about a third of these I have but need a kick to get started on.
Interesting list, and interesting takes. I personally enjoyed The Sparrow. And I think Player of Games is a great read, and one my all-time favorites. Although, I completely agree with the top end of your list. Fire Upon the Deep is a masterpiece, and its prequel A Deepness in the Sky is also amazing. I just want to say this to you. DO NOT give up on the Iain M. Banks Culture novels sir! They are very entertaining, and a wonderfully thought out space opera universe. You said you tried Consider Phlebas and gave up, which I understand. It's not one of his best Culture books. Please try Use Of Weapons, Excession, or Inversions. They are all great, in any order you read them in. Anyway, appreciate your review, and keep doing what you do!
Bookpilled - Since you are new to Science Fiction - hopefully you will expand your reading to A. A. Attanasio - Elizabeth Bear - Neal Asher - Stephen Baxter - David Zindel - John Meaney - Walter Jon Williams - Ian McDonald - Sarah Zettel - James P. Hogan - George Alec Effinger, Greg Egan, Gregory Benford, Gordon R Dickson, William Barton, Jack Mcdevit, Chris Moriarty, John C. Wright, Michael Marshall Smith, Robert Reed, Brian Stableford and CJ Cherryh. And you are likely behind with Adrian Tchaikovsky.
@@BL-mf3jp Simmons can write. No doubt about it. I pretty much love all his work, so I lack objectivity, I guess. I'm sure the novel's been optioned. But no movie yet. Perplexing.
I loved Children of Time but now I'm wondering about its inspiration and I'll be picking up rhe spider book. Thanks. I grew up on Poul Anderson and I'm revisiting on audio along with McCaffrey and Le Guin but I'm having a blast with the books you recommended.
Great list. 3 books would be in my top 500+ pages list: House of Suns (which you mentioned), The Children of Time, and Dark Forest. PS: Player of Games is my next book TBR, and i don´t think it has more than 300 pages
To people who liked " House of Suns " , I just can't help myself ( 😁 ) not to recommend Robert Reed 's ( among finest SF short story writer in the 90s ) novel "Sister Alice " . It's a fix- up novel of 5 stories from the 90s & it's worldbuildling is very similar to HOS. ( posthuman god - like clones arranged in families who dominate the galaxy & war with each other )
Love your recommendations. Recently got into sci-fi again after not reading for a couple years and ordered a lot of books from your recommendations. Just ordered a German copy of Star of the Unborn which I am really excited for since there aren't that many German sci-fi authors that I know of. Love your videos and style of reviews and their presentation, keep it up.
Damn! This is a great list, BP. You do us a valuable time-saving service with your channel by critiquing so many authors/stories/novels. Can't stress enough what a positive experience it is viewing your posts. Glad to see Mote in your list. Perhaps one of the all-time great collaborations, Pournelle and Niven. Cheers.
Im 71, read Star Mans Son in, ya, 1963, my first Sci-fi. Thre Body Problem is b-o-r-i-n-g. ..drowned world, whipping star & dosadi experiment, silent warrior, mote in gods eye, dune, caves of steel, currents of space, enders game, snow queen, the prefect, chasm city, matter, foundation & empire, are some of my favorites.
Gratifying to finally meet someone with similar opinions of some of those over-writers (although personally, I was bored silly by Red Mars, despite a couple of interesting characters.). I also don't get all the acclaim for Banks. He's fine. And his post-scarcity, semi-anarchist utopian "Culture" is interesting enough, but whatever. Just curious, but as someone who has read a wider range of stuff than me, do you find the Brit books particularly violent and focused on death? I keep sensing this trend but haven't read enough to say. Thanks for these reviews!
I second those others happy to see your tireless efforts in renewing (creating?) interest in Werfel, most of whose other very interesting work remains untranslated. Worth grappling, perhaps, with the fact, as well, that he was Jewish, which adds a different dimension to the assumption that conscious dismissal of the work in his own time came from his Germanness (and, while closely associated with the German avant-garde centered around Munichs bohemians, he was himself Austrian).
His take that it’s uneven is fair. I enjoyed the heck out of it. Also a fair criticism is it’s only half a story. You have to read the sequel for resolution.
I'll definitely try the top two! Far from a turnoff, the idea of Christian scifi (outer space wise) is really interesting. Are there other good ones, of any length?
I managed to buy that thumbnail version copy of The Mote in God's Eye at a book sale for $1 CAD and I'm looking forward to reading it. I haven't read any of the books you mentioned but now own 4, so i'll get around to them.
Thank you for the reviews. I'm surprised you did not find Revelation Space that much bloated... The last hundred pages consist of the repetition of the very same thing, seen by two protagonists!
I strongly recognize the value of @Bookpilled honest reactions and perspective. So much so that I am now reading "Fire Upon the Deep". Right out the gate I noticed something odd. In the far future have humans given up on some 'primitive' emotions but not others. aka "Sure is too bad we released that anciet evil back there, honey. Seems like all life, light and technology are now doomed. anyway, watch me manually land the shit out of this freighter." huh? am I expected to ignore this?
I was more than a little non-plussed when 'action man' got introduced, cutlass in hand. break me a give. On the other hand, 'the Old One' has begun it greatest crime against humanity... *stealing my bandwith* lol. I'm not kidding. the space aliens are horrified. "no amount of dogecoin is worth this!" I'm not kidding. this is all in the book. am I supposed to be laughing?
@@ralphmarrone3130 Try again. I hated it the first time too. The second time, I accepted that it was my fate to read a science fiction novel about an immortal man who can see all futures and pasts, rules the universe, philosophizes about his situation as well as the galaxy’s, and is slowly turning into a giant worm. The audacity and absurdity of it all never fails to make me smile.
@@chrisw6164 As an adult I wouldn't go back to them (I might some day go back to Children of Dune). 30 years ago I was a 14 year old teenager eagerly gobbling these books up - even Chapterhouse Dune; but I have much better books waiting to be read. And in fact, there are some really good online reviewers whose essays about each book are actually far more interesting and enjoyable.
Yeah, Surface Detail is my personal favorite from Banks. Use of Weapons, Look to Windward, and Excession are up there on the list too. I can kind of understand BP not enjoying The Player of Games.
You’re 14 & 15 are two of my favorite novels of all time! Player of Games is my fav! I tried to read your fav short book (you seem to only like short books) and couldn’t finish it! We have exact opposite tastes. So everybody don’t listen necessarily… these books he puts down are amazing novels!
I'm a sucker for everything Banks as well, and struggled with Vinge :) Am determined to keep trying with Vinge. Great list btw
@@tumblodryay1189 While i did largely enjoy Fire Upon Deep. I didn't love it i mean as I was reading i just felt like it could have been reading a middling culture novel.
It certainly wasnt anywhere as enjoyable as Player Of Games or Look To Windward.
It also took a while getting used to Vernor Vinge's writing style but that's me.
@@ZamWeazle I'm currently re-reading Excession.
@@tumblodryay1189 That's another good one. 👍
I don't know if the title is applying to every book on the list, but Player of Games is definitely NOT 500+ pages lol I just checked my copy and it's not even 400 pages. Am I missing something?
Can’t stand bloat in books, I don’t mind scientific analysis like in Solaris with pages of planetary observations, but bloat for bloats sake. No thanks.
Great video BookPilled! I always love your honest takes on the books you review!
I was able to get a Kindle copy of *Stern der Ungeborenen* from Amazon in German (obviously!), but I didn't see whether it was available in English. It's very good, I agree!
Thanks for your thoughts on "A Deepness in the Sky". Was wondering if I should read that. Just got done with 2 of your recommendations "A Fire upon the Deep" (which I loved), and the somewhat more disturbing "Tiger Tiger", which I also loved and was surprised at it's seeming modernity. When reading the first part, as Gully is first stagnantly surviving in the Nomad and then moved to action. I was wondering if this was one of arsenals exploited by the Expanse authors. The later description of Gully's enhancements were so similar to Clarissa Mao's enhancements that there is no doubt that this was one of the Expanse's resources (along with Heinlein's Rolling Stones, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and other early works.) I had read the Demolished Man, perhaps 20 or so years ago, and Bester was as polished and terse a writer as I remembered. Thanks much!
I actually agree with you on “Player of Games” and “Consider Phlebas” but “Look to Windward” is one of my favorite books along with “A Fire Upon the Deep” and “Aristoi”
I happened to read "Look to Windward" first, and enjoyed it deeply. None of Banks' Culture books that I've read subsequently have come close.
Your opinion on banks definitely resonated with me.
Franz Weefewl was also famous for being maried, for a while to Alma Mahler Gropius Werfel, the wife of Mahler (composer) , Gropius (architect), and Werfel. With many many affairs between marriages.
This was great. I am surprised by Player of Games, I am not surprised by Pandora's Star (although it's one of my favorite science fiction novels*), I have had The Sparrow on my shelf to read for years & you're the first person to say they didn't like it (which is interesting).
Your review of Boat of a Million Years encouraged me to read it, I was really impressed with Anderson's solution to the Fermi Paradox.
I live in Germany and I bought Star of the Unborn because of a recommendation from one of your older videos. Will definitely check it out soon :) although it was Werfel's only scifi book, his other books are totally worth checking out. But currently I am reading Dying of the Light by GRRM and I'm loving it
In Eon the Naderites was a conservative religious/political group of future humans in The Way. Eon was written in the 80's when Nader was a popular activist and political figure. I actually liked what Bear did there, its one of my favorites.
Totally agree on what you said about Red Mars. Another one of my favorites!
My Player of Games is around 300 pages. Regardless of different editions, it didn't feel like a long book to me. Consider Phlebas could have been a bit shorter, I think. And Use of Weapons felt a lot longer than it was and I loved it.
I wasn't a fan of revelation space either but the next books just keep getting better and better in my opinion. You can tell it was his first novel, for me it was the character work that was letting it down, only thing kept me going with it was the amazing ideas he explains in it.
Hey, wanna just drop it here. You made me read "A Fire upon the Deep" and I loved it. Currently reading "A Deepness in the Sky". Also like it so far (60% in), but I think Vinge made the Spiders too human-like - which is kind of a missed opportunity. But I guess imagine a 'real' alien culture is hard. The Tines and Skroderiders where exceptional in that regard. The Spiders are not.
Revisited my local downtown used bookstore haven't been to in years, really wish I could have brought you with me!
Got into a great sci-fi chat with the person working and she even showed me their secret sci-fi collectibles.
Thanks for adding some confident options to my TBR!
Spotted another Aldiss there too. "Life in the West" a hardcopy.
Cheers Bookpilled.
Enjoy Mexico!
Also I think the weakest part of Hyperion was Kassad’s story, I’m currently reading the second book and I still don’t understand his motivations
Thanks for another nice video Matt. As always I don't agree with everything - I like Player of Games better than A Fire Upon the Deep - but Gladys super thoughtful and insightful video.
I'm curious - have you ever read Ursula Le Guin's 500+ pages book, Always Coming Home? It's one of those that I could imagine you really like it really hate.
Finished Hyperion a day or 2 ago after it being a long TBR. I really loved the first half. But wow, I just did not have the same enthusiasm for the last 2 Tales especially and didn't even know what to think of the ending. Would read the priests tale separately again though. Also liked the war one and the scholars one with the child. It felt like exciting concepts that did not pay off by the end. Still looking forward to the next eventually.
I know I’m in the minority but I didn’t care for Hyperion. I loved the first story but the rest left me cold. And I loathed The Fall of Hyperion. I guess these books are just not for me.
@@ralphmarrone3130 I didn't love it either. Some very amazing parts but as a whole I left quite negative on it.
@@DanExploresBooks exactly, great ideas but very uneven and with some atrocious parts, the first, Hyperion I remember liking, but the end made me physically ill. Ive read the following three books but they were not as good.
What I really liked was his Illium, end sort of lacluster but the first two thirds was some of the best scfi Ive ever read.
@@totalassuage that is great to hear. Illium is one I have had on my list for a long time. Dan Simmons is definately a very talented writer. Hyperion just fell flat by the end for me.
When I started reading The Mote In Gods Eye my first reaction was that Eric Nylund must have been heavily influenced by it before he wrote the Halo books
Absolutely adore the Halo books by him
@@thedumbdog1964 you would probably like The Mote in God’s Eye then. The military sci fi is all very similar. Even certain characters in the Fall of Reach feel almost copy-pasted, not in a bad way
Agree totally with your take on Fire Upon the Deep. I thought the dogs were an amazingly interesting species.
It's funny you mention the Poet's and Detective's story as being your least favorites, because there were my two favorite tales in Hyperion.
Never knew the was a space spider book other than Children of Time
One of the things I like about good older science fiction is how much shorter and crisper it could be, before SF went down the fantasy route of long series of massive volumes. However, I do have several of these on my list to reread, sometime, probably, when I find the time, certainly including the Hyperion books, KSR's Mars books, and also Brian Aldiss' Helliconia books. Also, I'd like to put in a word for _Ash_ by Mary Gentle. You might not feel it qualifies because I think in the US it was released as a series of four or five volumes, but in the UK it came out as a single, 1,000 page doorstop. It is mainly historical fantasy, set in a heavily researched medieval Europe, about the female leader of a troop of mercenaries, (and Gentle works very hard to make that seem realistic despite the implausibility, though she also makes the implausibility part of the story). But it also has SF elements, alternate history, and it's a story within a story with speculation about time, reality and the nature of historical truth. I found the story thrilling, but also dealing with complex ideas. As far as I recall, it's very good. But I won't be sure of that until I get back into it...sometime.
I heard a lot of praise of " Ash : A Secret History " , also, her Orthe series ( Golden Witchbreed etc.. )
It was A. Tchaikowsy who praised them in interview on Moid's channel
This is the problem affecting modern literature as a whole. Long books, but lacking density, in the end just being fast food for consumerism. It's no wonder that when I read a book written more than thirty years ago I find myself thinking and analyzing much more, even if it is a very short book, when compared to modern slops unable to deliver any mental nourishment despite hundreds of pages and sequels.
The dog part of “A Fire upon the deep” is sooo tedious.
The video is very good.
I live in Berlin and got a very nice edition of star of the unborn in german for 3€ on a fleemarket 😅
You may have saved me a dull read in The Sparrow, a recent acquisition. It was cheap, so no harm, no foul. Great list, even taking into account the Banks Heresy! Funny how PFH is so polarising, I really like his books. They're super schlocky but fun. And heavy. I read AFUTD recently and really enjoyed it. BAD DOGGIES.
Chapeau sir, great work.
You may still want to give The Sparrow a try. It's not to everyone's taste and has some flaws but it does have quite an intriguing plot and ideas.
haha ive read thousands and thousands of books, and have maybe 3 i didnt finish, i cant even remember its so rare but i am 100% that one of them was the sparrow!
I’ve been enjoying your channel, especially for finding works I hadn’t heard of before. I picked up The Forever War from another of your videos and blew through it in a couple days, loved it. I would love to hear your take on Too Like The Lightning by Ada Palmer. It’s the first in a quartet which I consider some of the best I the genre (just ahead of Hyperion…).
I'm with you on Banks. I always see people recommend it on social media, but it's just OK for me.
Intresting, I've never read The Sparrow, I heard it was really good. I'll have to take pause before reading it.
franz werfel was an austrian writer, not german!
nice to see someone who looks as tired as I do all the time haha
love your vids
you should check out the Three Body Problem series!!
I'm one of those who doesn't think much of Dune(then again, I don't like The Beatles...) Maybe because I read it while on an almost month-long cruise up the Brazilian coast, so I was usually too exhausted at the end of the day to read more than a few pages. But it was hyped as creating "the most original world" etc., and yet it had a sand planet where people seemed like bedouins, with arab- sounding names and culture. What, Lawrence of Arabia in space, is THAT it?!? And as always with Herbert, just a tad pretentious, imo. Anyway, I don't hate it, but it's not on my Top Ten list...
Check out Poul Anderson's Tau Zero. Fascinating stuff.
I read Dune when it was still an 80 pound weakling (okay, it had won a Nebula and a Hugo) and I think it's a really fine piece of work but not a radiant timeless masterpiece. I was suitably peeved to see Herbert succumb to the commercial pressure (as I saw it) to produce more Dune books. The ones I read (up to Chapter House, I think) weren't in any way substandard.... just unnecessary. Maybe I'm just easily underwhelmed.
Well damn. I have The Sparrow and Pandora’s Star on my bookshelf waiting to be read.
My friend wrote her dissertation on Stern der Ungeborene. There is a pdf available in German. There's something there about what to do with post-war Germany. The utopian dreams of East Germany help explain some of it
Good to see someone else who finds PFH and IMB a bit bloated, and uninteresting. I thought it was just me - I think we're in the minority. For what it's worth I didn't really enjoy House of Suns (felt bloated to me in a similar way to PFH and IMB). I thought Revelation Space was more interesting.
Dune is shit ! Boy i miss your posts.
Reading science fiction since April of 1984 .
Still like your spin on some stuff you read and review
Feel the same way about Hyperion, thx for the vid. Wish I could get an Epub or a Mobi etc of the Star of the Unborn
Please read Anathem. Ian M Banks puts me to sleep. Read Mote in God's Eye 35 years ago... remembered it for a very long time... Could not get through Dune. Infinite Jest could be classified as SF. Highly recommend!
_Anathem_ is a really great philosophy textbook. As a novel, well, I liked it, but it could be tighter.
@@donaldb1 I just skip whenever he starts describing things… like the clock, the mynster, etc. That’s about a third of the novel ; )
Anathem is TBR as is most of his works (just soooo long) but I give 5/5 for Seveneves by Neal Stephenson.
Are you still keen on reading crime fiction? If so, I would suggest you to try the Mongolian Conspiracy by Rafael Bernal, it's the best noir novel written in Mexico and I'm pretty sure that reading it while you travel the city should be an interesting experience
That's a nice list. I agree with you about Hamilton. I read Pandora's Star in translation when I was learning German, and it really wasn't great-and it was clearly not the translation that was the problem. I haven't read River of Gods yet, but I finished McDonald's Moon (Luna) trilogy-again in German-and I found it good to start with, but it fade out, and it this weird werewolf substory that didn't really make a lot of sense. It definitely felt like he was writing for a TV show. I love Banks, but I found the first two books in the Culture not great. Look to Windward is my favorite, but it's one of those books that you'll either love or hate. I have grown to hate Dan Simmons as an author. He tends to start a series very strongly-this was particularly noticeable in his Mars books where the first was amazing the second barely readable. Red Mars is one of my favorite scifi books, A deepness in the Sky and A Deepness in the Sky. Have you read his Singularity books? They are a lot of fun.
Two that are worth mentioning are Cixin Liu's The Dark Forest trilogy-I particularly like book 2-and Perdido Street Station by China Miéville (though that's perhaps better classified as fantasy.
I haven't read a ton of these, but I really enjoyed Peter F. Hamilton's Night's Dawn trilogy. Has a great take on near-future sci-fi set in the 2600s, where humanity is just starting to colonize a bunch of worlds. A space opera in every sense.
I would rate Stand on Zanzibar much higher because of the sophistication of the endings which crush down in particular ways.
I always enjoy your contrarian takes! Sometimes, I actually agree with you.
Player of Games isn't even 300 pages long. Just saying. It's my favourite Ian M. Banks novel. Read Revelation Space and found it too lacking in character buildup to continue reading the author. I read Hyperion but it didn't wow me. I started on Red Mars but it was too technical for me. I found Dune to be okay but I don't really care for any of the character and while the world building is good, it's not enough for me to continue the 'series'.
I just finished A Fire Upon the Deep and it was incredible. Remarkable aliens
like for this smile at the last second of video
and for the video 's content Of course
Ranking close to my taste, but I would place Hyperion somewhat higher - apart from A Priest's tale and The Scholar's tale, The Consul's Tale - Remembering Siri also stands out. And of course Parts 3 & 4 of the Hyperion Cantos - Endymion and the Rise of Endymion are also members of the "500 club".The very first sentence of Endymion is my favourite: "You are reading this for the wrong reason."
The consul's tale is rarely mentioned for some reason. I would probably tie it with, or rank it above, the scholar's tale. I think it's the *shock value* of the priests tale that makes it stand out from the rest.
the ending of the revelation space trilogy was awful
I like how you don't give service to classics just because they're classics. I have to say the end of green Mars and blue Mars are better than red Mars. Also, I appreciate every video of SF you post.
Nice list!👍👍👍🤖📚🚀 Have you read much by Christopher Priest?
Not yet, high on the list
@@Bookpilled Looking forward to your opinion.
I gotta say Dan Simmon’s weird shitty politics throughout Hyperion as I’m reading it - is doing my head in. I just can’t handle how cooked it is. I just got up to the noir detective plot and gosh the poet’s story (he became a sex satyr?!) I cant.
Hyperion, "very very good, occasionally annoying". Yep, yep!
Your list looks very good. Thanks for the time you spent reading these. It's not always easy. Particularly in the 1960s, but including the 1970s and some later decades, I did read the obligatory long novels. Not many of those until the 1980s!
The Boat of a Million Years was a bit Bored to a Million Tears. Anderson did write some good stuff. His long hatred of Americans was off-putting to me.
Stand on Zanzibar. Read roughly 1970, but I did not keep it. It seemed idiotically absurd at the time, with no characters worth their salt. Little did I know that detrimental to the nation supposed "US" politicians would literally destroy the national economy thru every idiotic policy possible, for foreign interest's benefit over the next 50 years...
Dune was very interesting. I also read the parody version, hilarious. With the interminable and eternally long sequels, I began to move on.
The Mote In God's Eye is once again on my desk. Some of the character's seemed irrational or dense 40 years ago and kinda ruined their credibility, as I recall. I will try it again.
I guess I should give Vinge another attempt.
The Booktubers have really recommended Simmons, I read his Flashback over the last 2 weeks. I felt it was pretty well thought out, a bit sensational, too rude, too long, too easily wrapped up and needing a to the point sequel. He is probably "too" old now and got in some hot water for this one. I do not find his very weak recantation of the work credible. If you read the book, you will see why.
I will try Hyperion next.
Nader was a common topic on the news, back then. As I recall he even poked fun at himself on SNL?
Checking... Yep, he sure did!
It's interesting that A Fire Upon the Deep was one of the worst SF books I've ever read while the Sparrow was actually really good, refreshing and unique. I wanted to like Vinge but it was very "trite" to me, even dull sometimes. The writing was bad, uneven and stylistically poor, and it seemed it was done by a very inexperienced writer. Sparrow, on the other hand, is not a literary masterpiece either, but it was much more pleasant to read.
you have one and a half books by Banks and dont understand why he is held in regard. Well done on rubbishing him, you're a hell of a sci fi expert
I HATE Hyperion. The only female characters are the backwards growing baby and the detective that had male seed implanted into her to be on the journey. Nothing fine about it. The poet is insufferable. I had to vent.
Congratulations, you now have more subs then Moid the Maniac...
We have very different favourites but I've read some real bangers from your recommendations. You've helped me pick up sci-fi after a pretty long break, just with the way you talk about books, so thanks.
Always makes me happy to hear people say stuff like this. Thanks Alex
Great list of books. Thanks for actually having opinions, being concise and being thoughtful with your reviews. I love Banks, so yeah... agree to disagree. A Fire Upon the Deep is amazing.
"I just don't get the specialness of Banks." ... Man, I was genuinely shocked by this statement 😅
It’s weird how I seem to agree with you on everything, I might have found my favorite book channel
More book related channels that get straight to the point with no fluff whatsoever? Please. Why is this the only channel I can find that’s like this?
I read A Fire Upon the Deep about a year ago, and it’s one of those that has really stuck with me. The greatest thing about books is, each person creates unique mental imagery that can be so incredibly rich. The landscape this book painted in my head will be with me for a long, long time. One of the very best SF reads.
I love both the Vinge books but 'A Deepness In The Sky' was my favourite.
Umm, are you reading these in large print editions ? Cuz I disagree with your opinion fairly often but i'm pretty sure this is the first time i've disagreed with your _page counts_ :).
(the edition of 'The Player of Games' I have is 309 pages and I can't find one online that's over 400)
((agreed on 'Dune' though - good book but for me not the masterpiece that it is for some))
I will keep banging the Banks drum, at least until you try Use of Weapons! I can understand not finishing Phlebas though, as that one really is too long (has one of his best endings though, for my money). But a good list, about a third of these I have but need a kick to get started on.
Interesting list, and interesting takes. I personally enjoyed The Sparrow. And I think Player of Games is a great read, and one my all-time favorites. Although, I completely agree with the top end of your list. Fire Upon the Deep is a masterpiece, and its prequel A Deepness in the Sky is also amazing. I just want to say this to you. DO NOT give up on the Iain M. Banks Culture novels sir! They are very entertaining, and a wonderfully thought out space opera universe. You said you tried Consider Phlebas and gave up, which I understand. It's not one of his best Culture books. Please try Use Of Weapons, Excession, or Inversions. They are all great, in any order you read them in. Anyway, appreciate your review, and keep doing what you do!
Bookpilled - Since you are new to Science Fiction - hopefully you will expand your reading to A. A. Attanasio - Elizabeth Bear - Neal Asher - Stephen Baxter - David Zindel - John Meaney - Walter Jon Williams - Ian McDonald - Sarah Zettel - James P. Hogan - George Alec Effinger, Greg Egan, Gregory Benford, Gordon R Dickson, William Barton, Jack Mcdevit, Chris Moriarty, John C. Wright, Michael Marshall Smith, Robert Reed, Brian Stableford and CJ Cherryh.
And you are likely behind with Adrian Tchaikovsky.
Sorry my English not good.
I feel like Attanasio smokes DMT before writing every book lmao
@@MFDOOOOM - correct 💯
The priest's tale was my favorite, too, in Hyperion. Lot of striking imagery throughout.
Shriking imagery
@@MrJoycie1 Good one.
The Detective and priests were the best stories in my personal opinion!
@@BL-mf3jp Simmons can write. No doubt about it. I pretty much love all his work, so I lack objectivity, I guess. I'm sure the novel's been optioned. But no movie yet. Perplexing.
I loved Children of Time but now I'm wondering about its inspiration and I'll be picking up rhe spider book. Thanks.
I grew up on Poul Anderson and I'm revisiting on audio along with McCaffrey and Le Guin but I'm having a blast with the books you recommended.
Glad to see Star of the Unborn here. A favorite that I haven't seen in any list. Glad you brought it to light.
That Dune review... Your talents are not wasted.
Great list. 3 books would be in my top 500+ pages list: House of Suns (which you mentioned), The Children of Time, and Dark Forest.
PS: Player of Games is my next book TBR, and i don´t think it has more than 300 pages
To people who liked " House of Suns " , I just can't help myself ( 😁 ) not to recommend Robert Reed 's ( among finest SF short story writer in the 90s ) novel "Sister Alice " .
It's a fix- up novel of 5 stories from the 90s & it's worldbuildling is very similar to HOS. ( posthuman god - like clones arranged in families who dominate the galaxy & war with each other )
Love your recommendations. Recently got into sci-fi again after not reading for a couple years and ordered a lot of books from your recommendations. Just ordered a German copy of Star of the Unborn which I am really excited for since there aren't that many German sci-fi authors that I know of. Love your videos and style of reviews and their presentation, keep it up.
Damn! This is a great list, BP. You do us a valuable time-saving service with your channel by critiquing so many authors/stories/novels. Can't stress enough what a positive experience it is viewing your posts. Glad to see Mote in your list. Perhaps one of the all-time great collaborations, Pournelle and Niven. Cheers.
Actually, if you're a mediocre science fiction reader you've probably read 90% of them. These are the true classics.
Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky is honestly the most disappointing sci-fi with more than 500 pages I've ever read so far.
Another door stop book that is worth a look is "In Conquest Born" by C. S. Friedman. Space Opera but well written with engaging characters.
Im 71, read Star Mans Son in, ya, 1963, my first Sci-fi.
Thre Body Problem is b-o-r-i-n-g.
..drowned world, whipping star & dosadi experiment, silent warrior, mote in gods eye, dune, caves of steel, currents of space, enders game, snow queen, the prefect, chasm city, matter, foundation & empire, are some of my favorites.
Gratifying to finally meet someone with similar opinions of some of those over-writers (although personally, I was bored silly by Red Mars, despite a couple of interesting characters.). I also don't get all the acclaim for Banks. He's fine. And his post-scarcity, semi-anarchist utopian "Culture" is interesting enough, but whatever. Just curious, but as someone who has read a wider range of stuff than me, do you find the Brit books particularly violent and focused on death? I keep sensing this trend but haven't read enough to say. Thanks for these reviews!
I second those others happy to see your tireless efforts in renewing (creating?) interest in Werfel, most of whose other very interesting work remains untranslated. Worth grappling, perhaps, with the fact, as well, that he was Jewish, which adds a different dimension to the assumption that conscious dismissal of the work in his own time came from his Germanness (and, while closely associated with the German avant-garde centered around Munichs bohemians, he was himself Austrian).
Werfel was Jewish, not Catholic, though he was educated at a Catholic school. I think you might have corrected this mistake in a subsequent video,
Disappointed that you left out Tchaikovsky. So many of the books you like are built on worn out cliches i. e unoriginal.
Interesting take on Hyperion. It was in your top 15 best sci-fi list, the first list you made, though you now say it's not/won't be. What changed?
His take that it’s uneven is fair. I enjoyed the heck out of it. Also a fair criticism is it’s only half a story. You have to read the sequel for resolution.
The sequel to Pandora's Star isn't much better. Been trying to read that for four months now.
I dnf red Mars I thought it was boring, I might go back and finish.
I'll definitely try the top two! Far from a turnoff, the idea of Christian scifi (outer space wise) is really interesting. Are there other good ones, of any length?
I'm a conservative, politically, and I loved Red Mars.
I managed to buy that thumbnail version copy of The Mote in God's Eye at a book sale for $1 CAD and I'm looking forward to reading it. I haven't read any of the books you mentioned but now own 4, so i'll get around to them.
So basically he's in it for the spectacle of horrific things happening to people.
I SO love Hyperion.
Thank you for the reviews. I'm surprised you did not find Revelation Space that much bloated... The last hundred pages consist of the repetition of the very same thing, seen by two protagonists!
@@nicodubn I haven’t read it in so long, I might feel that way now. Compared to Hamilton it’s pretty lean n mean.
Couldn't agree more about the Sparrow. Awful book
Dan Simmons´ hyperion is so poorly written and dated, it stings the eyes
I strongly recognize the value of @Bookpilled honest reactions and perspective. So much so that I am now reading "Fire Upon the Deep". Right out the gate I noticed something odd. In the far future have humans given up on some 'primitive' emotions but not others. aka "Sure is too bad we released that anciet evil back there, honey. Seems like all life, light and technology are now doomed. anyway, watch me manually land the shit out of this freighter." huh? am I expected to ignore this?
I was more than a little non-plussed when 'action man' got introduced, cutlass in hand. break me a give. On the other hand, 'the Old One' has begun it greatest crime against humanity... *stealing my bandwith* lol. I'm not kidding. the space aliens are horrified. "no amount of dogecoin is worth this!" I'm not kidding. this is all in the book. am I supposed to be laughing?
Read Aniara and Lolita pls I'd love to see your review.
This will never happen, but I’d love your take on God Emperor of Dune. That would require reading the first three Dune novels however.
It will eventually happen
I felt God Emperor was the point when it really started getting a bit mad. I know other opinions are available, though.
God Emperor of Dune is where I gave up. I hated this book.
@@ralphmarrone3130 Try again. I hated it the first time too. The second time, I accepted that it was my fate to read a science fiction novel about an immortal man who can see all futures and pasts, rules the universe, philosophizes about his situation as well as the galaxy’s, and is slowly turning into a giant worm. The audacity and absurdity of it all never fails to make me smile.
@@chrisw6164 As an adult I wouldn't go back to them (I might some day go back to Children of Dune). 30 years ago I was a 14 year old teenager eagerly gobbling these books up - even Chapterhouse Dune; but I have much better books waiting to be read. And in fact, there are some really good online reviewers whose essays about each book are actually far more interesting and enjoyable.
The Use of Weapons is Iain Banks best book. You really should read.
Surface Detail is also pretty cool.
Yeah, Surface Detail is my personal favorite from Banks. Use of Weapons, Look to Windward, and Excession are up there on the list too. I can kind of understand BP not enjoying The Player of Games.