CATL's condensed battery will have aircraft 1800 miles of range
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2024
- CATL's condensed battery will have aircraft 1800 miles of range
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#catl #aircraft #airplane #range #electricplane #batterytechnology
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i hate the lack of proper specs eg 1800 miles of range means absolutely nothing what we want is the energy density we want wh/l & wh/kg at pack, life cycle and charging rate e.g 6c
I've read 500Wh/Kg. Hope that answers your question.
wr
Physics not Magic determine range based on the electric breguet range equation and realistic inputs, 500wh/kg gives 1000km range with a super efficient aircraft design. 20 years of Aeronautical Engineering experience makes me far more qualified than Sam. Where did he get 2000km?
Go and invent it 😂😂
We need to know how much thrust a jet engine that,s not burning jet fuel produces just by spinning on battery power.
Another game-changing battery development?
But we have at least one of these miraculous batteries popping up every week..
Wake me when it happens...
Okay, we will, Mr. Toyoda.
@@ChickensAndGardening He has a point does he not? There are loads of companies claiming this and that for their battery. In the Uk there one even got on the main news as it was like wow look this, this battery can charge to 80% in 5 minutes... but then it only did 120 miles i.e. it was useless. TEsla have been trying to deliver on the 4680 for years. Amprius was hailed for a year or more ago by MUnro... now suck without much trace. So like the guy said... wait unti someone can actually mass produce one. BUt like he said, they will just put smaller batteries in and range will still be shit as Elon said we dont need more than 250 miles.... great.
@@landcruiser801 These battery companies talk nonsense most of the time to raise investment capital. Are EV batteries improving, yes, but only fractions of a percent each generation. Show me a brand new EV currently on the road that can charge from 10% to 100% in 5 minutes and get 1000 km range. There aren't any. There might be in 15 years or so but by then we will have probably had WW3 with the Chinese and we'll be riding bicycles.
@@landcruiser801 Sometimes Elon is an A-hole. A 16 gal tank with 30 mi/gal mileage = 480miles per fill up for gas, so a competitive EV has a range of 480miles per charge. It is that simple. And 30 mi/gal mileage is a pretty large SUV, where it might have a 21 gal tank. To escape driving in heavy snow snowbirds drive from Michigan to Florida every year on one tank, a 2 liter bottle of pop and one bucket of KFC. A car that does 250 miles is plenty for those poor folk with cheap private jets..... Oh, wait......
But what don't you understand about how technology is changing all of the time?? with time you will see these batteries in all cars and in years to come you will look back and say "oh i was wrong about Ev's"!!!😂😂😂😂😂😂
30 Kwh is 30 Kwh regardless of battery chemistry. It's the weight/size that improves.
Be careful.
This is COMMUNIST China we're dealing with.
Years ago, Saudi Arabia told the world they had 200 billion barrels of oil reserves. But they wouldn't let the outside world verify that amount. What did that do? It DISCOURAGED everyone else from making investments in oil exploration.
Fast forward to electric cars. EVs are getting a bum rap these days (re: esp FIRES). Without these breakthrough batteries, EVs will fail. They'll just become another FAD on the consumer landscape, like the Smart Car.
Enter CATL and their "break through" battery. Aren't they signaling, "Stick with it world! Keep going with that EV foolishness that has the west doing the economic equivalent of digging a hole and filling it back up again.
Don't forget, we are AT WAR with Communist China.
making now since years everyday videos about this but still has no clue what he is talking about
This is an impressive achievement! But in the same way that solid state batteries don't really talk about cost, the fact that CATL has targeted this battery towards airplanes points to the likelihood that it costs more than twice as much as conventional batteries. Rather than focusing on aviation, or building EVs that go thousands of miles on a charge, this new battery could be combined in a hybrid battery pack. Say with 20% condensed batteries, and 80% sodium ion batteries. So it would be able to drive 100 miles on the mini pack, and 250 more miles with the cheaper sodium batteries (for those rare times when that is needed). But with a smaller, lighter battery pack overall, at a comparable cost.
...yeah...because the tech is new. Also CATL and BYD will now halve the prices of their other batteries end of July/beginning of August.
Aerospace and defense are getting the highest density batteries. Amprius’ silicon anode battery is over 500 wh /kg, but is reserved for defense mostly. They are building a large plant in Brighton Colorado right now.
Be careful.
This is COMMUNIST China we're dealing with.
Years ago, Saudi Arabia told the world they had 200 billion barrels of oil reserves. But they wouldn't let the outside world verify that amount. What did that do? It DISCOURAGED everyone else from making investments in oil exploration.
Fast forward to electric cars. EVs are getting a bum rap these days (re: esp FIRES). Without these breakthrough batteries, EVs will fail. They'll just become another FAD on the consumer landscape, like the Smart Car.
Enter CATL and their "break through" battery. Aren't they signaling, "Stick with it world! Keep going with that EV foolishness that has the west doing the economic equivalent of digging a hole and filling it back up again.
Don't forget, we are AT WAR with Communist China.
Be careful.
This is COMMUNIST China we're dealing with.
Years ago, Saudi Arabia told the world they had 200 billion barrels of oil reserves. But they wouldn't let the outside world verify that amount. What did that do? It DISCOURAGED everyone else from making investments in oil exploration.
Fast forward to electric cars. EVs are getting a bum rap these days (re: esp FIRES). Without these breakthrough batteries, EVs will fail. They'll just become another FAD on the consumer landscape, like the Smart Car.
Enter CATL and their "break through" battery. Aren't they signaling, "Stick with it world! Keep going with that EV foolishness that has the west doing the economic equivalent of digging a hole and filling it back up again.
Don't forget, we are AT WAR with Communist China.
Congratulations Sam ! Thanks for finally putting proper units (Wh/kg) on energy density!!!!
Yes I noticed that. But he then went on to say that the same kWhs of battery would give this increase range, so he's still not completely there.😐
Because of the weight reduction.
Good to see that Sam actually caught his own error of saying Watts per Kg (power density), and correcting to Watt*hours (energy density). We are finally getting through to him after a couple years of nagging...
The shortest distance (air line) between Shanghai and Los-Angeles is 6,484mi.
CATL's condensed battery will have aircraft 1800 miles of range.
So a transpacific electric airliner will need to recharge three times over the ocean.
Stupid idea.
@@simon6071it's a small airplane. Wait when a larger airplane in a size of 737 with a big battery is built
Want to hear about the fire resistance of this battery. A battery fire in an aircraft is … undesirable!
Too right, I'm so glad they don't fill them with tens of tons of highly flammable liquid - that would be crazy.
Be careful.
This is COMMUNIST China we're dealing with.
Years ago, Saudi Arabia told the world they had 200 billion barrels of oil reserves. But they wouldn't let the outside world verify that amount. What did that do? It DISCOURAGED everyone else from making investments in oil exploration.
Fast forward to electric cars. EVs are getting a bum rap these days (re: esp FIRES). Without these breakthrough batteries, EVs will fail. They'll just become another FAD on the consumer landscape, like the Smart Car.
Enter CATL and their "break through" battery. Aren't they signaling, "Stick with it world! Keep going with that EV foolishness that has the west doing the economic equivalent of digging a hole and filling it back up again.
Don't forget, we are AT WAR with Communist China.
If the skin were solar cells, the plane could recharge itself while flying instead of consumption of fuels and ejecting pollutions. This is the way to go. However, jet fuel is ~ 40 MJ/kg, the best EV battery is barely 1/100 of that. Even solid state battery is less than 2MJ/kg. It’s still a long way to go to shred the extra weight.
Good points 👍 although when you factor in the overall efficiency of a jet engine for example, it's approx 20-40% depending on its type so that brings the numbers a bit closer together, still a long way to go though 😬
I doubt that limited area of solar cells on the wings, or even on every square centimeter of aircraft surface, could significantly affect the range.
@@ChickensAndGardeningexactly, range wouldn't be affected at all whilst flying 😂😂😂
@@fernandopimentel5463 Nor while parked.
Be careful.
This is COMMUNIST China we're dealing with.
Years ago, Saudi Arabia told the world they had 200 billion barrels of oil reserves. But they wouldn't let the outside world verify that amount. What did that do? It DISCOURAGED everyone else from making investments in oil exploration.
Fast forward to electric cars. EVs are getting a bum rap these days (re: esp FIRES). Without these breakthrough batteries, EVs will fail. They'll just become another FAD on the consumer landscape, like the Smart Car.
Enter CATL and their "break through" battery. Aren't they signaling, "Stick with it world! Keep going with that EV foolishness that has the west doing the economic equivalent of digging a hole and filling it back up again.
Don't forget, we are AT WAR with Communist China.
Thats great. but im getting a little weary of these miracle battery that's just around the corner! stories.
LOL. They are spending billions in battery technology it's inevitable that the range will increase and the price will decrease.
Cannot wait until Tesla puts these batteries into my personal drone. Gives the term EV an entire new meaning.
Who needs a car when I can avoid traffic congestion and tolls by flying to my destination in a drone?
@@brucebennett5354 You mean a flying car.
@@PyroShieldsLots of technology has been a dead-end.
@@timothykeith1367 Well clearly EV's are not.
If one of these batteries filled the volume of today's 30 kWh batteries, it would have more than 60 kWh, giving the car twice the range of the car on its original battery. Sam's Maths is (often) a bit suspect, as seen by him misquoting that statistic.
Be careful.
This is COMMUNIST China we're dealing with.
Years ago, Saudi Arabia told the world they had 200 billion barrels of oil reserves. But they wouldn't let the outside world verify that amount. What did that do? It DISCOURAGED everyone else from making investments in oil exploration.
Fast forward to electric cars. EVs are getting a bum rap these days (re: esp FIRES). Without these breakthrough batteries, EVs will fail. They'll just become another FAD on the consumer landscape, like the Smart Car.
Enter CATL and their "break through" battery. Aren't they signaling, "Stick with it world! Keep going with that EV foolishness that has the west doing the economic equivalent of digging a hole and filling it back up again.
Don't forget, we are AT WAR with Communist China.
Thanks Sam for providing such powerful analysis and overviews of trends, accomplishments and failures in the EV marketplace without too much detail and math.
Be careful.
This is COMMUNIST China we're dealing with.
Years ago, Saudi Arabia told the world they had 200 billion barrels of oil reserves. But they wouldn't let the outside world verify that amount. What did that do? It DISCOURAGED everyone else from making investments in oil exploration.
Fast forward to electric cars. EVs are getting a bum rap these days (re: esp FIRES). Without these breakthrough batteries, EVs will fail. They'll just become another FAD on the consumer landscape, like the Smart Car.
Enter CATL and their "break through" battery. Aren't they signaling, "Stick with it world! Keep going with that EV foolishness that has the west doing the economic equivalent of digging a hole and filling it back up again.
Don't forget, we are AT WAR with Communist China.
powerful analysis ?
he has no clue what he is talking about, only refering numbers he found somewhere in the internet.
typical commercial flights with planes above 100 seats and especially longrange flights need energy density of 12.000 Wh/kg !!
Watt hrs wouldn't be reduced, the battery would still be 70 kwh but weigh less.
Be careful.
This is COMMUNIST China we're dealing with.
Years ago, Saudi Arabia told the world they had 200 billion barrels of oil reserves. But they wouldn't let the outside world verify that amount. What did that do? It DISCOURAGED everyone else from making investments in oil exploration.
Fast forward to electric cars. EVs are getting a bum rap these days (re: esp FIRES). Without these breakthrough batteries, EVs will fail. They'll just become another FAD on the consumer landscape, like the Smart Car.
Enter CATL and their "break through" battery. Aren't they signaling, "Stick with it world! Keep going with that EV foolishness that has the west doing the economic equivalent of digging a hole and filling it back up again.
Don't forget, we are AT WAR with Communist China.
Electric motor reliability? Should see some of the installations where I've seen electric motors operating. Chemical plants, refineries, pulp and paper mills, nasty environments.
With the new US tarrif imposed on Chinese product, including batteries, North America will be losing this great advantage for there own automaker.
Be careful.
This is COMMUNIST China we're dealing with.
Years ago, Saudi Arabia told the world they had 200 billion barrels of oil reserves. But they wouldn't let the outside world verify that amount. What did that do? It DISCOURAGED everyone else from making investments in oil exploration.
Fast forward to electric cars. EVs are getting a bum rap these days (re: esp FIRES). Without these breakthrough batteries, EVs will fail. They'll just become another FAD on the consumer landscape, like the Smart Car.
Enter CATL and their "break through" battery. Aren't they signaling, "Stick with it world! Keep going with that EV foolishness that has the west doing the economic equivalent of digging a hole and filling it back up again.
Don't forget, we are AT WAR with Communist China.
I think it would make sense to cover the plane in solar cells, as planes spend 90% of their life outside & above the clouds.
Thermal management in super fast charging such high density batteries in a car applications could be a real issue as already over heating is reportedly proving a problem with BYD blade batteries in the Seal
Great Video thanks !
One thing Toney Seba said was that it takes around 9 years for new batteries to go from production concept to retail use . There is a lot of testing and production issues to be ironed out in that 9 years . in that 9 years the average price drop of lithium batteries is 16% a year and the average increase in energy density of a lithium battery is 4% a year . So whatever you have invented today has to be cheaper and better than lithium batteries will be in 9 years time. . This is why it is really hard to beat Lithium according to Tony Seba .
The other area that Toney Seba said would already be handled by now is autonomous EV's . You would just be telling you EV to go pick up the kids from school and off would go the autonomous EV to do the task . However autonomous EV's are proving harder to develop than i think Toney Seba and anyone would have first thought. How does a autonomous EV read a construction sign detouring traffic ? Small issues like this are proving to be really difficult for regulators to approve.
Not helped that detour signs are intended for ALL traffic, that's Semi's, so the detour is only for biggest, cars could have alternatives. but on smaller roads, leading to traffic congestion on other routes.
16% price drop of LiIon batteries every year? Compare price of 18650 battery cells 3 years ago and now
Be careful.
This is COMMUNIST China we're dealing with.
Years ago, Saudi Arabia told the world they had 200 billion barrels of oil reserves. But they wouldn't let the outside world verify that amount. What did that do? It DISCOURAGED everyone else from making investments in oil exploration.
Fast forward to electric cars. EVs are getting a bum rap these days (re: esp FIRES). Without these breakthrough batteries, EVs will fail. They'll just become another FAD on the consumer landscape, like the Smart Car.
Enter CATL and their "break through" battery. Aren't they signaling, "Stick with it world! Keep going with that EV foolishness that has the west doing the economic equivalent of digging a hole and filling it back up again.
Don't forget, we are AT WAR with Communist China.
batteries could even be for free, but still we wont see them in typical commercial flights with above 100 seats and especially not for longrange flights as for those usecases you need a much hihger energy denisty:
12.000 Wh/kg
just found out that you can dotoo loo little mileage in an ev as well, porche 12v battery needs 500 miles a month use or they wont warranty it, cost of replacement about $3000
Be careful.
This is COMMUNIST China we're dealing with.
Years ago, Saudi Arabia told the world they had 200 billion barrels of oil reserves. But they wouldn't let the outside world verify that amount. What did that do? It DISCOURAGED everyone else from making investments in oil exploration.
Fast forward to electric cars. EVs are getting a bum rap these days (re: esp FIRES). Without these breakthrough batteries, EVs will fail. They'll just become another FAD on the consumer landscape, like the Smart Car.
Enter CATL and their "break through" battery. Aren't they signaling, "Stick with it world! Keep going with that EV foolishness that has the west doing the economic equivalent of digging a hole and filling it back up again.
Don't forget, we are AT WAR with Communist China.
Ok now we need fit the plane with airless tyres HALLELUJAH the world is saved for the 57th time in last month
And Sam goes and ruins it by saying these battery powered planes will never crash o.0 gimme a break
We don't know the chemistry. The CATL image says 500 Wh/kg, high energy density and high safety. While fuel goes in the wings of ICE aircraft, batteries likely go in the fuselage of electric aircraft to reduce wing stress events on landing and allow a higher lift/drag ratio. Also, easier to drop a battery from the fuselage centreline in the event of a battery fire. While CATL says high safety, fire remains a possibility. We can assume a Lithium metal cathode, semi-solid state ('solid' separator resistant to dendrites??) and perhaps just 500 load cycles before the battery must be replaced. Surely a high nickel cathode - maybe NCA?? Take-off power may only be C/3 charge flow, and perhaps C/2 max recharge.
500 wh/kg of Energy Density (technically Specific Energy or Gravimetric Energy Density) is very significant if true.
Sam - Thanks for noting that gravimetric Energy Density (vs. Power Density) is given in Watt-Hours per Kilogram (rather than Watts/Kilogram).
I notice that there is a ball-park figure for a typical EV (car not truck) of about 250 W h per mile. So an 80 kW h battery would give a range of 320 miles.
It is a useful measure directly meaningful to humans considering buying an EV. Much the same as 30 mpg has been a useful nominal long-term standard relative to which to measure ICE vehicle performance.
We can measure poor, average, and good, relative to those nominal standards. And I think that is what people generally do.
But looking specifically at the batteries, 500 W h per kg is quite an achievement. If it becomes the standard for new vehicles in a few years time, the standard of 250 w h per mile may remain, but range will increase dramatically. And there we come to another standard that people use, namely range, where the standard would be, say, 300 miles, for want of a figure.
So if people consider a range exceeding 300-400 miles not worth paying extra for, then battery weight per vehicle will start to fall as batteries improve, and the 250 W h per mile figure will drop a little.
Be careful.
This is COMMUNIST China we're dealing with.
Years ago, Saudi Arabia told the world they had 200 billion barrels of oil reserves. But they wouldn't let the outside world verify that amount. What did that do? It DISCOURAGED everyone else from making investments in oil exploration.
Fast forward to electric cars. EVs are getting a bum rap these days (re: esp FIRES). Without these breakthrough batteries, EVs will fail. They'll just become another FAD on the consumer landscape, like the Smart Car.
Enter CATL and their "break through" battery. Aren't they signaling, "Stick with it world! Keep going with that EV foolishness that has the west doing the economic equivalent of digging a hole and filling it back up again.
Don't forget, we are AT WAR with Communist China.
500 wh/kg is a great achiement,
but the total wrong perception here is that this could be enough for typical commercial flights with planes above 100 seats or especially longrange flights.
truth is for such use cases we need around 12.000 Wh/kg
Did I see a graphic of 500 w/kg? That’s astonishing if true. Of course, it has potential for commercial aviation, but I am excited about application to general aviation. Operating costs and maintenance costs of light aircraft make GA unaffordable to most people. This could, finally, bring GA costs down.
No, there is by far no potential for typical commercial flights with above 100 seats and especially not for longrange flights as for those usecases you need a much hihger energy denisty:
12.000 Wh/kg
No need to argue the benefits of high energy density batteries, those are pretty obvious. This would be a battery breakthrough though and the first rule of battery breakthroughs is: there are no battery breakthroughs.
Would be great if those new batteries could be used in the Semi-truck.
It would ease the pressure on the mega-infrastructure.
Be careful.
This is COMMUNIST China we're dealing with.
Years ago, Saudi Arabia told the world they had 200 billion barrels of oil reserves. But they wouldn't let the outside world verify that amount. What did that do? It DISCOURAGED everyone else from making investments in oil exploration.
Fast forward to electric cars. EVs are getting a bum rap these days (re: esp FIRES). Without these breakthrough batteries, EVs will fail. They'll just become another FAD on the consumer landscape, like the Smart Car.
Enter CATL and their "break through" battery. Aren't they signaling, "Stick with it world! Keep going with that EV foolishness that has the west doing the economic equivalent of digging a hole and filling it back up again.
Don't forget, we are AT WAR with Communist China.
Oops. Sam, 30kwh is 30kwh regardless of the energy density. Weight reduction is range positive, sure. But the example you used was mis-spoken in yiour first example of how this new tech will increase range. Some of your later examples got it right though, by comparing how much more energy would be available for range in the same *weight* battery at the higher power density. Might want to go back and re-edit some corrective text into the places where you mis-spoke.
30kwh battey pack will go about half as far as my current 60+ kWh battery. Sure weight savings will help some but no where that drastic a difference. If so id like to see the math/evidence.
Seems that aircraft with large solar area is not often factored into range - above the clouds during the day where air density and drag is less greater distance is a given
Be careful.
This is COMMUNIST China we're dealing with.
Years ago, Saudi Arabia told the world they had 200 billion barrels of oil reserves. But they wouldn't let the outside world verify that amount. What did that do? It DISCOURAGED everyone else from making investments in oil exploration.
Fast forward to electric cars. EVs are getting a bum rap these days (re: esp FIRES). Without these breakthrough batteries, EVs will fail. They'll just become another FAD on the consumer landscape, like the Smart Car.
Enter CATL and their "break through" battery. Aren't they signaling, "Stick with it world! Keep going with that EV foolishness that has the west doing the economic equivalent of digging a hole and filling it back up again.
Don't forget, we are AT WAR with Communist China.
Sam, what is your current thought on Amprius Technologies with their silicon anoid batteries.
Hey Sam, why is there no report on your China trip? Did they deport you?
He just reads articles.
So no report to read here 😁
OMG, does he finally understand the units!
Tried to get the cost of a VW i.d.3 replacement battery the other day. VW would not tell me. All they would say was that it would be under warranty and I would not need to pay if it needed replacing. What BS.
Be careful.
This is COMMUNIST China we're dealing with.
Years ago, Saudi Arabia told the world they had 200 billion barrels of oil reserves. But they wouldn't let the outside world verify that amount. What did that do? It DISCOURAGED everyone else from making investments in oil exploration.
Fast forward to electric cars. EVs are getting a bum rap these days (re: esp FIRES). Without these breakthrough batteries, EVs will fail. They'll just become another FAD on the consumer landscape, like the Smart Car.
Enter CATL and their "break through" battery. Aren't they signaling, "Stick with it world! Keep going with that EV foolishness that has the west doing the economic equivalent of digging a hole and filling it back up again.
Don't forget, we are AT WAR with Communist China.
The only commercial aviation current lithium battery certified and being homologated as safe to fly commercially is an armoured LFPO4 with only 70watt per kg of total weight. Nothing will fly very far on this…vague promises on performances have to be demonstrated first …weight & size vs capacity, durability, safety, efficiency, max. current, etc are compromises with each other for a particular duty, and overall global performance has to be demonstrated first in real life, since one announcement on one single parameters can make the buzz but not automatically a real new market for it..
I would like to know what the "C" rating is per amp hour. Airplanes also need kW's or battery horsepower for the take offs.
Be careful.
This is COMMUNIST China we're dealing with.
Years ago, Saudi Arabia told the world they had 200 billion barrels of oil reserves. But they wouldn't let the outside world verify that amount. What did that do? It DISCOURAGED everyone else from making investments in oil exploration.
Fast forward to electric cars. EVs are getting a bum rap these days (re: esp FIRES). Without these breakthrough batteries, EVs will fail. They'll just become another FAD on the consumer landscape, like the Smart Car.
Enter CATL and their "break through" battery. Aren't they signaling, "Stick with it world! Keep going with that EV foolishness that has the west doing the economic equivalent of digging a hole and filling it back up again.
Don't forget, we are AT WAR with Communist China.
A problem with EVs is writing them off after a minor collision because of the risk that the battery pack has suffered damage, hence big rises in insurance costs from insurers becoming wise to the real costs for them.
If battery packs go down in size, it will be possible to protect them better, such that collisions are less likely to risk damaging them. That will reduce insurance costs, car costs, and car weights.
Never mind aviation. Let's just develop a high density battery that can't catch fire no matter what first. That folks, would be a game changer!
This is impressive but hopefully it will happen than just being something just drawn up.
Of course they will...
A smaller battery in electric vehicles also means the car is significantly less expensive.
Lighter energy dense battery packs like these and the very light powerful axial flux motors that we may start to see in EV's, this combination would be amazing. A lighter vehicle means more range and even higher power to weight performance. The future of EV's is very exciting.
True. Hindustan south.
Be careful.
This is COMMUNIST China we're dealing with.
Years ago, Saudi Arabia told the world they had 200 billion barrels of oil reserves. But they wouldn't let the outside world verify that amount. What did that do? It DISCOURAGED everyone else from making investments in oil exploration.
Fast forward to electric cars. EVs are getting a bum rap these days (re: esp FIRES). Without these breakthrough batteries, EVs will fail. They'll just become another FAD on the consumer landscape, like the Smart Car.
Enter CATL and their "break through" battery. Aren't they signaling, "Stick with it world! Keep going with that EV foolishness that has the west doing the economic equivalent of digging a hole and filling it back up again.
Don't forget, we are AT WAR with Communist China.
Hi Viking. Regarding $AMPX. You spoke of them last year. Stock is way way down. Are they going under? I now own the stock. Please share your opinion of $AMPX . Cheers.
4:08 - Here follows a comparison that is not absurd.
It suffices to know that a "4680" Tesla battery back relies on cells that are storing 250 Wh/kg. It also suffices to know that CATL cells that are storing 500 Wh/kg will "soon" appear. Thus, in case you want to store 85 kWh for providing a 550 km WLTP range, the CATL cells make you spare 340 kg.
But wait a moment.
In case you want to only store 30 kWh for only providing a 150 km WLTP electric range, such "soon available" CATL cells make you spare 120 kg.
It becomes advisable to equip the frunk with a modular electric generator that you rent out, that delivers 35 kW of electricity all the time you are long-distance towing on the freeway.
The 30 kWh battery consists of two (left and right) cabinets, each 10 cm (thick) by 40 cm (width) by 100 cm (length) storing thus 375 Wh per liter at cabinet level. Considering a 50% volumetric efficiency at cabinet level, the bare cells must store at least 750 Wh per liter at cell level. Considering that a 180 kW peak (10 seconds) electric power may be asked by the driver, the cells are required to support a "6 C" peak (10 seconds) discharge rate. Given the 100 cm length of each of the two cabinets, the fuel tank takes place underneath the 2nd row seating.
The exhaust line is channeled though the 30 cm space that is separating the two battery pack.
Very high energy density is potentially dangerous and needs a lot of testing, especially for aviation.
Might be able to create a hybrid drive system for aircraft that allows for redundancy in case of a catastrophic power loss. My understanding of jet aircraft is that power loss is quite common actually...just not of the "catastrophic" kind. Still use in the Boating industry makes far more sense for battery electrics where weight need no be a penalty at all. Plus if your ship/yacht/boat loses power all you are is dead in the water and not flat out dead as is true of a catastrophic failure of power in an aircraft.
Well, an electric plane would likely have to be a propeller plane not a jet plane. However compact ICE engines such as axial engines are proposed as range extenders and backups for electric planes...
I flew for 40 years, retired in 2013. Power loss in jet aircraft (and turboprops) is extremely rare, not common as you have implied.
I always figured that 500 Wh/kg was the threshhold for commuter aviation. Whats the battery chemistry?
4m10s ish - a 30kWh battery pack holds 30kWh of energy regardless of the technology used to store it. An EV using CATL's new battery tech would have better range than current tech if both have 30kWh batteries, but *only* because it's lighter. We cannot possibly say *what exactly* that would do for range because of all the other variables about efficiency and overall weight of the rest of the vehicle.
It seems you accidentally confused density with capacity at that point in the video.
There's no doubt, though, that of course almost anything north of 400Wh per kilo starts to get really exciting! At 500Wh per kilo for the new battery, it means a beefy 100kWh (100,000Wh) battery now only weighs 100,000/500 -> 200kg - pretty astonishing! As you do later point out, this gets us into territories where, in an EV vs ICE with similar range (the EV must have a huge capacity battery to match the ICE range), the EV might be no heavier (because that huge battery is also extremely energy dense).
Yeah Electric Viking got confused there. Better wh/kg means lighter battery with same capacity of energy. This extends range. Lighter car benefits also with smaller and lighter motors and brakes with car having same total performance but bigger range. Win win win...
Sam confused yet again. 30kwh will give the same range whatever the density, the difference is these new batteries will give higher capacity e.g 50kwh in the same size box.
👍👍
They have to prove them in vehicles first in terms of functionality and safety, before putting them in aircraft.
T P V cells can be used to extend range
Sam, let's wait to see what actually happens with these batteries. Most of the many amazing battery claims come to nothing.
Scaling up is the issue. Reworking the factories to make them is costly. Possibly cheaper to build a new factory in the short term and rework the existing factories once demand for those versions start to fall away.
That's the usual way to go anyway. Keep production up before switching to the new tech. Workers in the factory want to get paid too.
Be careful.
This is COMMUNIST China we're dealing with.
Years ago, Saudi Arabia told the world they had 200 billion barrels of oil reserves. But they wouldn't let the outside world verify that amount. What did that do? It DISCOURAGED everyone else from making investments in oil exploration.
Fast forward to electric cars. EVs are getting a bum rap these days (re: esp FIRES). Without these breakthrough batteries, EVs will fail. They'll just become another FAD on the consumer landscape, like the Smart Car.
Enter CATL and their "break through" battery. Aren't they signaling, "Stick with it world! Keep going with that EV foolishness that has the west doing the economic equivalent of digging a hole and filling it back up again.
Don't forget, we are AT WAR with Communist China..
Wow
It must come in cars now.
I noticed that CATL condensed battery has a gold colour, is that a hint about their price?
This is great for Lilium jet $lilm
Edit the title. "...will GIVE aircraft 1800 miles of range" makes more sense.
It won't be a jet it will be just a prop plane it'll be rather slow people are not going to want to fly a prop plane across the across the country or across the pond😢
@@doylewillis9587Step by step.
Still more than a huge way off. I can see some electric aircraft operating economically in say Australia, but less so elsewhere. Also, from all sorts of airplane disaster channels, I would not put the combustion engines as the main culprit. Very often it comes down to human error. Then there's Boeing, but the rate they're not going, question is how long they will last. Will be around mid 2030's before small commercial can operate electric planes, I hope. Even then one of the biggest costs is actually the plane's crew. So smaller planes with less passengers are less economic. Don't see XLR's being replaced anytime soon. I hope boats are being looked at too. So much room on top of ships, would be great if they got a huge amount of solar. (I'd also love to see solar panels integrated on the top of the wings, or the fuselage of the planes).
For those who think Tony is crazy just look a toy cars how how many man hours to build them and cost compared to income 75 years ago vs a Microcasted HotWheels toy car today.
This charges everything
Do you have a chart of how batteries have evolved over the past 20 years?
No Sam. a 30kw battery isn't going to go further with these batteries, unless the car is made entirely of carbon fibre, and runs aggressive regen. Less Wh per kg means a lighter car, like for like. Yea, Yea. It goes a smidgeon further because lighter, the efficiency of EVs is related to weight (among other factors) coupled with regen efficiency and how you use the brakes.
Can you also add solar to the wings. Just a thought??
What would that accomplish ?
even if the whole plane would be full of solar cells this would have no relevant effect on the range
amazing if it's true
Excellent stuff. I was amazed to see VW investing $3 billion in petrol engine development. The efficiency improvement will be negligible. But battery technology is advancing hand over fist.
Investing more in petrol and diesel engines is just the sunk cost fallacy in action.
@@rogerphelps9939 Exactly. Succinctly put 👍👍👍
There are many companies hyping up new tech, but CATL is the worlds leader in battery tech and I give them far more trust than I would other companies. Tesla, this would likely be a great battery for the Semi.
Be careful.
This is COMMUNIST China we're dealing with.
Years ago, Saudi Arabia told the world they had 200 billion barrels of oil reserves. But they wouldn't let the outside world verify that amount. What did that do? It DISCOURAGED everyone else from making investments in oil exploration.
Fast forward to electric cars. EVs are getting a bum rap these days (re: esp FIRES). Without these breakthrough batteries, EVs will fail. They'll just become another FAD on the consumer landscape, like the Smart Car.
Enter CATL and their "break through" battery. Aren't they signaling, "Stick with it world! Keep going with that EV foolishness that has the west doing the economic equivalent of digging a hole and filling it back up again.
Don't forget, we are AT WAR with Communist China.
Be careful.
This is COMMUNIST China we're dealing with.
Years ago, Saudi Arabia told the world they had 200 billion barrels of oil reserves. But they wouldn't let the outside world verify that amount. What did that do? It DISCOURAGED everyone else from making investments in oil exploration.
Fast forward to electric cars. EVs are getting a bum rap these days (re: esp FIRES). Without these breakthrough batteries, EVs will fail. They'll just become another FAD on the consumer landscape, like the Smart Car.
Enter CATL and their "break through" battery. Aren't they signaling, "Stick with it world! Keep going with that EV foolishness that has the west doing the economic equivalent of digging a hole and filling it back up again.
Don't forget, we are AT WAR with Communist China.
So no electric commercial flights from Sydney to New York non stop ?? Not for another 20 years
Again you get it wrong. a 30kwh battery will give the same range no matter how energy danse it is. get it right man. the more energy density means a bigger kwh battery can be used with less weight
All these pie in the sky future batteries make an absolutely compelling case not to buy a current electric car. Of course 3/4 of these ideas will never come to fruition but it looks as though there will be quite significant adventures in the very near future which will make any electronic car you buy now with nothing in the future and leave you looking like yesterday's hero
I thought it was already 500 Wh / kg. Now it's 400 ? Cracks already starting to appear in their claims ?
Great advancement, and fastastic for EVs. But I don't understand how electric aircraft are going to replace jet airliners, which is where the vast bulk of passengers are carried. Are we going back to the 1950s? Or should be be working a lot harder on bio-fuels?
We will be like Cuba😮
Can it go as fast as a jet engine tho?
When will this technology be available?
Be careful.
This is COMMUNIST China we're dealing with.
Years ago, Saudi Arabia told the world they had 200 billion barrels of oil reserves. But they wouldn't let the outside world verify that amount. What did that do? It DISCOURAGED everyone else from making investments in oil exploration.
Fast forward to electric cars. EVs are getting a bum rap these days (re: esp FIRES). Without these breakthrough batteries, EVs will fail. They'll just become another FAD on the consumer landscape, like the Smart Car.
Enter CATL and their "break through" battery. Aren't they signaling, "Stick with it world! Keep going with that EV foolishness that has the west doing the economic equivalent of digging a hole and filling it back up again.
Don't forget, we are AT WAR with Communist China.
doesnt much matter regarding planes as for longrange flights with >100 seats we actually need 12.000 Wh/kg
I have 1 Trillion mile car…it’s the size of a football field
You should name it the “Wang”. Size matters!🍆
China is seeing the price of offshore wind power fall below that of coal-generated electricity “for the first time this year”, following the government’s approval of numerous renewable energy projects, says Bloomberg. Citing Chinese industry news outlet BJX News, the outlet says a “306-megawatt (MW) wind farm off Shanghai” has been officially approved to provide electricity at “27% below the coal power price benchmark”. The Hong Kong-based South China Morning Post covers new research finding that gas is unlikely to serve as a “transition fuel” in China, due to the “faster-than-expected progress and cost competitiveness” of renewable energy. BJX News reports that state-owned energy conglomerate China Energy Engineering Corporation is developing the world’s “largest new energy storage base”, with a capacity of 3060 MW. Climate newsletter Shuang Tan reports that a court in China recently “ruled in favour of climate activists in a lawsuit against a local coal power plant” on the basis of “ecological loss”, although it “did not support [a claim] regarding the damages caused by the coal power plant’s excess carbon emissions”.
Everyone also remembers when non combustible batteries exploded.
2000 km range in a ‘normal’ ev means 6000km range in the Aptera, insane. A future Aptera can drive USA coast to coast on one charge.
Finally the US boys won't have an excuse not to switch to EVs because the country is too big.
😂😅
There's no way I'm getting on a battery plane.
I hope condensed batteries are cheap to produce, so the CATL can make bank and expand. Regardless, their price will be dictated by the highest bidder, which will be aviation. Automotive batteries right now are dominated by price, not density. Recent advancements like LFP and Sodium Ion are actually lower density than NMC. Aviation will pay a premium for condensed performance and only supercars will afford these batteries in the short term.
Will we see one battery to rule them all, or will batteries continue to specialize?
I am still waiting for cars to get the new shenxing plus battery to end up in a Tesla.
Imagine being inside an airplane with a huge lithium battery and it starts to smoke …..
I'd imagine it would be the same if it was an 'av gas' fuel plane.
Payload ??
Not interested in China-made "tofu dreg" aircraft. But very interested in a Western aircraft manufacturer developing electric planes using such batteries. With today's A.I. and automation capabilities, they could fly them for thousands of hours unmanned, to work out the kinks for a few years, then this will likely replace small to mid size civil aircraft over time. I say "over time" because small aircraft are flown for decades; they don't just use them for 5 years then trade in for a new model. We can also expect ultra-stealth electric military drones and planes to come into use as well.
Is there already a real battery composed of these cells, that can be used to power an electric car? What is the cost of such a battery and such a ev. Do we know any realistic dates for deployment in electric cars? The reality of Chinese electric cars so far is that overall they are lagging behind non-Chinese competitors in terms of charging speed, consumption or software.
I don't think these are intended for cars. CATL and BYD (unlike small start ups looking for funding) announce their battery breakthroughs when their production line is ready to start rolling.
30kw? Will go half the range
right but wrong.. you meant 30 kWh ;)
You replace kerosene with a battery, but what do you replace the jet engine with? Ducted fans are not the answer, plasma propulsion needs a lot more power.
truth you even cannot replace the jet fuel (not kerosene) with battery , as for typical commercial flights with above 100 seats and especially not for longrange flights as for those usecases you need a much hihger energy denisty:
12.000 Wh/kg
I did a bit of internet research. maybe someone can correct me if they have better knowledge. at only 500kwhThese planes going 1800 miles will be small compared to most airliners. modern day flights are so cheap because planes have gotten very large. its a bit like windmills. often, The larger the more economical. for most size planes we have today. you will need 1000kwh-1500kwh. This is a good first step, but its a small first step.
airliners have to be perfect. even if we had 2000kwh batteries, it is going to take a long time reengineer planes, charging, and thousands of other little factors. decarbonizing flights is a massive challenge.
Vaporware... you can sell future batteries for a penny a piece...
We need this kind of density for small EVs. The Smart E has awful range. We need motorway/highway speed small 2 seater EVs at cheap prices with decent range. This is what city people need. UK cities don't have the space for big cars, but hardly anyone wants to drive something like a citreon ami that only does 45mph (or something). I drove my petrol smart for two all over the UK. We need EVs that can do that, but at dirt cheap prices. People should be encouraged to downsize, if they never use their back seats. These capacities will enable that.
What? 🤔
Great news Sam
Assume for argument sake that a battery electric aircraft is able to go 1800 miles on a charge -- when new. How often is that battery pack going to use most of the charge -- answer: short haul aircraft will tend to make several trips per day meaning the battery will run through most of its charge 2-4 times per day. If the pack is rated at 2000 charge cycles then you might need to replace the battery pack about every couple years. Battery electric aircraft are a stupid idea and will remain so until we get batteries with more than 1000WHr/kg AND the pack retains 90% of it's capacity after 10,000 full cycles.
If an turbofan jet loses an engine inflight the pilots should be able to land without a problem. If the battery pack catches on fire inflight everyone dies!
I KNEW if I Watched this Channel l-o-n-g enough, I'd catch Steve being pessimistic about electric vehicles. (The Ford Motor Company used to Love shaving a few ounces off the mass of the ICE powerplant they sold. {Because they knew there would be a "Knock On Effect" on the rest of the Machines structure. Lighter weight Shocks, Wheels, Tires; that kind of thing.) That "700 pounds" might balloon up to 800, or 900 pounds . The car/airplane Makers would be laughing, all the way to their Banking Institutions.
And yet all the new EVs coming to Australia from China have 470km range. Less than a Tesla.
When cars start arriving with at least 1000km of range wake me up.
What is always missing from the hype is charge time, charge cycles and cost. Forget about there ever being viable commercial aircraft in the next 20 years. It takes years for commercial aircraft to reach certification and we're still in the experimental stage. I could see small short-haul aircraft being inserted into this market in maybe 5-10 years if they can get the cost at a competitive level. The trouble is the world is screaming out for aicraft engineers and techs now and that's only going to get worse. A whole new category of aircraft tech service persons would be challenging to say the least. Currently the aviation industry globally is under resourced and can't meet demand now. I can't see electric aircraft getting a foothold in this environment.
Amprius makes a better battery then CATL.
C_A_T_L please
Bit confused, surely a 30Kwh battery will do approx half the range of of 60Kwh battery? If the battery is half the size/weight you will get some small efficiency improvement but the range = the efficiency*Kwh capacity. Are you confusing the capacity of the battery e.g. 60Kwh with the physical size? or am I being thick (It has been known). Keep up good work.
For same weight (volume) of pack, get double energy storage - if prepared to keep heavy car.
If you put in half the energy plus twice the density, save 700kg, save 1/3 of rolling resistance, 1/6 better energy efficiency.
Physical size
This guy reads stuff and gets excited..
i don’t know if he knows that when a company drops some out there claims, the stock usually jumps because of people like him 😂
Remember when God Elon mentioned that stupid dog coin and it blew up 😂
Yeah his math is pretty far off. He's very confused about ev efficiency. A battery that weighs half as much will make your car go further. But if you cut the total kilowatt hours in half and only drop 100kg in weight on a 3000kg car, you won't go twice as far. Not even close. You won't even go as far. Maybe 55% at best. If you cut the entire weight of the car in half, not just the battery, you still wouldn't go as far. I have no idea where he came up with this mystical math that lets you cut your energy in half and travel twice as far.
why buy an e-car, if the best battery by far won't be on the market for two years? not sure this is good marketing.
Electric jets will be about as noisy as petro jets; the noise from combustion is small but the noise from exhaust turbulence is large. Where props are certain to dominate is air robotaxis.
Musk is pissing his pants right now.
Tesla already has a battery supply contract with CATL.
It's not about the electric motor vs the ICE engine. It's about burning fuel as opposed to the chemical reaction in a battery - both equally dangerous.
Are you being serious, or just never bothered to google?
Equally dangerous? Definitely not true.
Hilarious to think that driving around with a tub full of liquid fuel is somehow safer than a battery 😂
@@robbailey6476 I was making fun of the dude, because obviously gas tank are way more explosive then batteries! Please do some basic research before repeating lies from the media! Battery vehicles are 20-80 times less likely to catch fire, then gas vehicles! BEV fires just get reported on way way more!!!
@robbailey6476 Have you been driving around in a tub filled with flammable liquid- and you're still here? Smoking! Gasoline must be pretty safe
@@robbailey6476 It's all about risk management and mitigation. We know how to reduce the risk of an ICE car or airplane catching fire. The risk is extremely low as long as everything is well maintained. But lithium batteries are a new technology and we have seen EV's catch fire unpredictably, presumably due to battery defects that were not detected by quality control processes before they were put in the vehicle. Can you imagine a plane full of people going down in flames because one defective battery set off a chain reaction? You can't just pull over to the side of the road like you can with a car.