I REGRET NOW - Enphase Solar system using IQ7+ microinverters
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2022
- Enphase Solar system using IQ7+ microinverters - If I had to DO OVER. What I would do differently installing my Enphase solar system. I am using Enphase iq7+ microinverters as most of you know. What is the difference in the Enphase iq7 vs. iq8 microinverters? We will get into that. Would the iq8a enphase micro inverter be a better choice?
On my channel, I share my successes and mistakes. You might be very surprised about what I would change if I could go back in time on this IQ7+ Enphase Solar system.
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It's really cool to see a stand up guy, admit his mistakes in order to help other people. Really cool! I just subscribed! Thank you for being you and hopefully inspiring more people to help each other.
Much appreciated 🙏 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Just had to drop you an email after watching your 1st video. Brilliant, as always! You have this knack for nailing every point and turning each video into a legit learning experience.
Much appreciated 🙏 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
No mistake bro! IQ 7+ are the right spec for those panels... Panel Watt ratings are based on electrical safety, eg if positioned on a mountain in cold weather with no humidity and pointed right at the sun they MIGHT make 375W. On that setup you won't ever pass 300W. (heat and normal humidity and dust) With the 290 max unit you get a higher efficiency overall and especially at low sunlight with a sooner cut in and later cut out for early am late pm.
Appreciate the feedback. I will hopefully get to run some field tests in the future. Once I get that system off the roof and in the ground, I will test it out. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
I have nearly the same set up (370W panels, IQ7+ inverters) and I only notice it level out around noon in late June. That's it. It's never been a problem. I'm expanding my array and will probably use 7+ or 8+ for those as well. If he had gone with a ground-based array and was able to orient the panels optimally, then you might see it a bit more, but it's really going to be only a very incremental difference, a definitely not a game changer in the roof-top vs. ground-based array.
this is great info! thank you for sharing your enphase experience. we all learn from mistakes and i appreciate the feedback.
That's my goal to share my mistakes and successes. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Great video. Thanks for sharing your experiences and mistakes. Very generous of you. Thanks
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
I appreciate your honesty about the good and bad aspects of your system!
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Hind sight is 20/20 I am just now installing my system and you mentioned two things you wish you had done that I have done. I used the Sinclair ground mount with seasonal adjust and it is out in the field with a very nice southern exposure. But that's why I love UA-cam real people and honest advice so thank you for your contributions.
Appreciate it, thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
(Alex) Great video. Thank you for sharing your experiences installing the system. Those details make a huge difference in any proyect.
(Alex)? Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Thank you for giving us the heads-up. You are the best Justin!
Appreciate it! Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
I’ve had 375 watt panels with the 7q+ for 3 years, and you are not missing out on that much clipping. You have a good ratio. To dO do mine again, I would use the same inverters with even bigger panels. The access on ground mounts is nice but most latitudes only gain 3 to 4 percent over a year if your change the tilt every month. The real gains are in 2 axis trackers built they aren’t worth the extra cost and maintenance.
Appreciate the insight. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Why not make electric at night 🌉🌙✨😌🤔😏🌉 shutters rail chrome paint l.e.d.s lights ✨😎🎶.
I agree. Low tech is always better IMO. I would use IQ7 in a New York minute. 2023 even
I agree completely that the IQ7+ are probably giving you as much power as you can get. From the shadows in the video, it seems like maybe your array faces more west than south? Seems to me that it won't matter which micro you have if you're limited by the azimuth of your array. I went through the exact thing you did. I read the rating on the micros after I received them and thought I needed to replace them with IQ7As, because I was installing 350W modules. This was in 2021 before the IQ8s were much of a thing. I talked to the distributor and he said it wouldn't make any difference, so I kept the 36 that I'd already bought, but when I ordered the additional 12 micros I needed, I got some IQ7As as a test. One of my south-facing arrays has 7+ micros on one row, and the 7As on the other (upper or lower, I can't remember.) I've never seen any noticeable difference in the outputs between the rows. Ground mounting can have its benefits though, for you it would allow aligning them due south, and putting a higher angle on them for better overall output. Easier to clean in winter, too. Also, if you're planning to slightly exceed the specs on the number of mods on a 20A circuit, better to have a slightly lower output micro! Enphase sells Q cables for both portrait and landscape orientations. Oh, and with wire sizes, the problem you're fighting with microinverters is actually voltage *rise* not drop, but the idea is the same, bigger wire=less resistance=fewer losses. If the wiring is too small or too long, under high PV output conditions it could be possible to exceed the overvoltage limit and have some micros shutting down. It all depends on what those specs are in the grid profile that is programmed into your micros. I used #12 wire, too, because I already had a crap-ton of it on hand. So far, no problems. 12 mods/circuit, no runs over about 70' from any micro to the combiner box.
@@JustinsProject I agree, if you can get 70% of the rated maximum per panel, you're doing just fine. This is where I say solar salesman are full of BS. I'm completely off-grid in Cabo and I need as many panels as I can fit on the property. I cannot tilt for optimum power due to hurricanes so I am trying to maximize as much space as possible on a flat concrete roof. Now that I have 4x48v 280AH battery banks (home built), I have way more night time capacity than my panels can supply.
Thanks for the video Justin! You probably have helped others from your experiences. That sucks that you have 370 watt panels and for the most part are only using 60-65% of capacity. Partly because you have a fixed panel angle and partly because of your IQ7+ micro inverters. For my future solar system install I would like to modify or possibly build my own racking system using Unistrut but have the ability to manually adjust the panel angle to take advantage of tracking the sun better with each season.
I wanted a ground mount tilt racking system. Didn't workout for me that way. I can do a whole video on that topic probably. 😁 I am producing a good amount of power that I should repay my system very quickly though. That was my main objective. ROI. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Consider a catwalk that looks nice from the ground, and is safe and easy to walk on the roof. Get "High strand cable", maybe 8 Gage wire. Doing the cat walk will help with any mods in the future. Performance Never goes out of style! Great video!!! Thanks! Love the comments from the UA-cam audience too!
That would be nice for easy access. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Thank you Justin. Always clear and concise.
Much appreciated 🙏 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Hey Justin. Thanks for sharing your lessons learned. I think you may have done OK with the IQ7's. The rating of a solar panel is done against "standard conditions", which is in maximum sunlight (i.e. think tropics) and with idea (short sleeves) temperature, neither of which are rarely experienced in the field. Thus your panels will rarely (if ever) output what they are rated at, so it is common practice to oversize the panels with respect to the micros. You also have PV panel follow off time which inverters typically don't have (or at least not as bad). Further, micros are typically more efficient when running near the top end of their power rating. So all this to say that you might not get that much more out of your system if you had went with the IQ8As. You should be able to approximate how much inverter clipping is going on based on the output graph of your system. A better way to find out for sure would be to buy one or two IQ8As and replace a couple IQ7's on your system so you could compare the output of the two. I think that would be an interesting real world experiment and I would love to see that data! That would also give you a spare micro on hand in case you needed it. Good luck.
Appreciate the feedback. Unfortunately, I can't add just one or two IQ8's on a IQ7 system. They are not compatible and would need a whole new combiner box also. So to test this I would 27 IQ8's and the Combiner Box 4. IQ7+'s will do the job for sure, just if I had it to do over from my data, I think the IQ8A would have peaked my production. Not sure by how much or if it would be worth the extra $$$. Now, I could go get me a couple IQ7A's and test my theory on that. Which might be something I'll explore in the future. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
@@JustinsProject: IQ7 and IQ8 are most certainly compatible. But when paired on the same system you will not be able to use all the technical features of the 8's...like sunlight backup. The 8's will revert to same programming as the 7's but will make their rated power.
@@mikepowell3335 I am getting clipping with the IQ7+'s. 2+ hours on a clear day.
@@ABC-wz2db Can you elaborate on how you would pair the IQ8s with the IQ7s using the same branch circuit? Everyone I have talked with including Enphase tech support has stated that I can not pair IQ8s with IQ7s on the same circuit because they are not compatible. If I am missing something I would love to know because it would be beneficial to everyone.
@@JustinsProject Sorry, it looks like an additional Gateway would be required to get accurate monitoring and they would need to be on different feeders; possibly with a power line filter separating the two circuits. Looks like they(iq7/iq8) have different power line communications. But, if you don’t care about monitoring…they will work together all day long. I think someday soon I’ll test this on my system.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge! Good to know for those starting out.
Thanks for watching and commenting! 👍
Justin, You've done well. Forget those mistakes and keep moving forward. Anybody doing anything new, will not follow the optimum plan. The experience, even bad experiences, teach us more. Hind sight helps us improve the next time we do that task. You chose Enphase, that was a good decision. Keep going !
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Good info to know! Thank you.
Also, reading the comments is very enlightening as well.
Awesome! Thanks for watching and commenting! 👍
Thanks for Sharing Justin. Great info. I have a DIY system I’m about to upgrade and looking for this exact type of insight.
You're welcome, and thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Great info brother, learning the hard way is usually my way as well but the smart switch with 8a and able to charge a small battery bank ( a few battleborns and 2000 watt inverter lets say) during the day is exactly what I plan to do now. Thank you!
I'm exploring battery backup solutions right now. I have some promising ideas. Hope to share sometime soon. Good luck with your build. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Thank you. So very, very helpful for those of us just starting to plan our systems. I don't want to be "that guy" my older brother always warned me about: "The first thing he learned about anything new was that he bought all the wrong stuff". I would have made the same assumptions without this UA-cam. Thank you again.
I am glad it helped. Thanks for watching and commenting! 👍
Awesome on sharing at your experience. Read about Vdrop and going to upgrade my homerun to a larger gauge. Thinking about the existing system I have but also the bigger panels and IQ's that will come out in 5 years or so. System looks great and must be CRANKING on the AC baby! Again nice system I'm jealous ! Looking at starting with 2.5KW.
Plus yeah AC vs DC production is different.... Good research and keep going!
Vrise is important but there are several easy ways to help with it if is an issue. One tip to explore is adding a field connector in the middle of your branch while creating your home run. Be sure to check the Enphase installer certification classes. They are free and very helpful. Thanks for watching and commenting! 👍
Valuable Inputs!! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Your video is the BEST! You make sense and DIY knowledge is better than the "solar guys" in my opinion. I was going to install a super DIY low budget small system in California in 2015, and I said, "I should just buy 3K worth of ENPHASE stock. Long story short- - - - I did not buy the stock, and I did not install that system (I rented out the cottage) I ended up buying a house with 12 panels and a SUNPOWER system over my head. I am back watching the video...
Much appreciated 🙏 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Good commentary here on your install. I've worked in solar for a number of years and here's why we're getting away from Enphase. 1. Failures...now you are only worrying about 27 microinverters, but as an installer we have to service thousands we've installed out there on all kinds of roofs. As you pointed out, it's harder to service something on the roof vs ground. The labor warranty stinks, I believe $200 per truck roll and $25/microinverter. As an installer that's a money losing situation. For you, no biggie, they send you a replacement and you do it your self...up on the roof again. 2. Compatibility...Enphase has not made new products compatible with new ones. As you pointed out, the 8's are not compatible with the 7's and require a different combiner. Fast forward 10 years and you have a couple of micros fail, then you will have potentially 2 or however many panels on their own monitoring. 3. Warranty process is clunky and the ancillary parts ie gateway or combiner are only warranteed for 5 years.
I wouldn't worry too much about the clipping. That's a 128% ratio panel to inverter, but remember those 380W panels carry that STC rating, ie lab/factory test conditions. With real world conditions, the sun moving, clouds, temps, seasons, your panels are mostly not going to be producing at 380W. If you put a 10kW inverter up there (1:1) you'd most likely see that you were rarely if ever producing 10KW, probably more like 8KW on sunny days.
Just went with a couple of those Sinclair GM systems so we'll see how that goes.
Appreciate you taking the time to share that. I agree with everything you said. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Thank you for your honesty with your valuable insights and your right, we as DIY’ers no matter how much we think or how many angles we go at a project , lets face it hindsight is 20/20. Its part of doing your own stuff and learning
True, hands-on experience will always trump textbook theories. It doesn't always work out perfectly. What is important is that we learn from our mistakes and focus on becoming better at what we do. With every job, no matter how many years of experience we have in the field. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Awesome show, honest retrospective on ways to do even better, thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you for watching and commenting! 👍
Enphase is superior because there is no single point of failure.
I would have gone Enphase IQ8 and have built a microgrid. That is the holy grail of solar panel solutions. Maintain electric production even when grid has failed. PRICELESS.
Awesome and Congrats on a killer setup!! Are you using the Enphase batteries or did you opt for another backup solution? Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
@@JustinsProject Someone deleted my last reply.
The US needs to go to a Hydrogen economy. So I will go with (World-first home hydrogen battery stores 3x the energy of a Powerwall 2) as my next upgrade.
Thanks Justin. Your video together with the comments has helped me a lot. I just hope I can get these points across to my Thai suppliers 😊
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching and commenting! 👍
You just helped future owners get a better outcome. I prefer using optimisers instead of micro inverters as optimisers allow DC current to flow straight to a DC Coupled battery and not have to travel through an inverter with conversion losses. My experience has been that my 13.25 kW panels can send up to 10 kW through my 10 kW inverter and up to 5 kW straight to my battery resulting in production on sunny days of up to 15.2 kW. This will also allow the use of more efficient and faster DC to DC car chargers in the future.
I hope to get to play around with optimizers and battery backup solutions in the future. Maybe for a shed not connected to the grid. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Thank you so much for sharing your experience.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
I really liked your video. I just finished a DIY rooftop solar project. I ended up going with the IQ8+ because of the ability to form a micro grid. Traditional grid tied solar systems do not produce power when the grid is down per NEC requirements. However, Enphase’s newest equipment allows continuous solar generation by forming a micro grid. Definitely worth checking out
Congrats on your solar installation. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
But Enphase even admits that their Sunlight Backup system can only provide to your house 30% of the power provided by all of your micro inverters. If Justin's panels have a total (nominal) wattage of 10.0 kW, and his micro inverters can only output a total (max) continuous wattage of 7.8 kW, then the Sunlight Backup can only provide 7.8 kW * 30% ≈ 2.3 kW to his house, and the extra components to do so cost about $5000. Obviously, 2.3 kW is better than nothing, and you can run the WiFi and refrigerator and lights and maybe even a microwave oven, but it isn't the 7.8 kW coming off the roof.
@@jpdemont Good points. Another factor to toss into that scenario is that the grid power usually drops during the nighttime hours. If the system is not paired with batteries then there is no change. What it really comes down to is the overall needs of the system owner.
Thanks for doing this!!!!
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Great Video! You got to the point, shared good ideas and the mistakes. I love it! It was also missing the 2 things that I hate about some youtube videos. 1. intros (no intros are my favorite, but anything longer than 5 seconds is obnoxious. I've seen 30+ sec intros. That's 30 seconds of my life I will never get back. I don't think I have ever subscribed to anyone with long intros) , 2. You didn't addresses any negative comments from previous videos. Content creators almost always do that. It just seems juvenile when people address the negative Nancys of the world. I have never done it but the sarcastic side of me has often wanted to leave negative comments about addressing negative comments😂. WOW I kinda got negative there didn't I. Sincerely Nancy.
P.S. Keep up the good work. I "liked" and "subscribed".
Appreciate the feedback. Thanks for watching, commenting, and subscribing. 👍🏻
Thanks so much for your insight and thanks just as much to the folks who left comments. I've learned a lot !
Much appreciated! I am glad you found it helpful and hope to have you back in other videos. Thanks for watching and commenting! 👍
Sorry to hear about that. That was the first thing I did to match my IQ8-H to my 395w panels. I knew that even if there was a solar panel that could produce a million watts my IQ-8s could only produce 385w each max. We have been having lots of cloudy days, rain, and since fall is here, my 10k system is only producing about 3kw to 7kw per day, so I went and bought two 1500w wind turbines to help supplement my panels that should work 24/7. I just need to install them, but unfortunately, I will have to place two 12v batteries in series for the needed 24v match from the turbine alternator output from the rectifiers. Good luck in your future addition of panels. It's very unfortunate that you cannot mix and match the IQ-7's and IQ8's.
I'm very interested in wind turbines as a supplement also. Still need to reseach that path a little more. I always wanted to build a Vertical turbine. I just need to source everything to fabricate the actual turbine.
super valuable information - thank you for making this video 👍
Much appreciated and your welcome 🙏 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
I learned from you and did the 8. Thavk you!
Great choice! Congrats on the system. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Thank you! Honest presentation. I like it.
Much appreciated 🙏 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Awesome video. Thanks for the information
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching and commenting 👍
thanks for the info! contemplating a project and gathering info. Thanks for your help.
Much appreciated! Thanks for watching, commenting and being a sub 🤘
One other thing to consider is that the optimum tilt is your location latitude on the Spring and Fall Equinox, but as the seasons change the optimum tit for 29 Degrees North Latitude
from Vertical Horizontal
January 44 46
February 52 38
March 60 30
April 68 22
May 76 14
June 84 60
July 76 14
August 68 22
September 60 30
October 52 38
November 44 46
December 36 54 this will also improve the energy received from the sun...OBY as does facing South...
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Great information. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Thank you brother, you helped me a lot while I'm learning about solar
I am glad to help. Once I finish my shop, I hope to refocus on some new solar content. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Thanks for the video
Thanks for watching and commenting!
I think you did great, I got 325s on the IQ7+ also and yeah under perfect conditions they will probably output close to 295, but real world it be hard, even with auto tracking, panels are rated for the same logic under perfect conditions yeah but let's be honest, if you are lucky they might put 70-80% of their rating, if is worth it for you then great, but for me I put them on my roof and got everything working, installed the consumption CTs got it powered up 5 years ago and my monthly bill averages 15-17 bucks for the next 25 years used to pay 90-160 bucks a month . Enphase make good products, and yes they charge a lot for it, one of the reasons I decided to build my own battery backup system, at a fraction of what they quoted me, but in 5 years I've had no issues with their equipment. Keep my fingers crossed! Thanks for sharing!
Just curious, on your 325's do you ever produce 290-295w? What direction (azimuth degree) and tilt is your array pointing? Thank you for watching and commenting! 👍
@@JustinsProject If I remember correctly 14 are at around 22-26 degrees since the roof has 2 levels, 4 are on the back porch roof tilted to about 45% so there are 18 total, on a good day they produce 35-38 Kw a day. They produce around 250 watts each, then you have some loss due to cables and such, but for a 5Kw system it does pretty good. I got a smaller system just to charge the batteries, Lithium LiPo batteries and use them as a backup just in case the power goes out. the house roof is due South got lucky on that one.
I also have 27 370 Watt panels with IQ7+ microinverters and have tracked the clipping closely. As noted by another commenter, the loss from clipping is small. And I have also seen some information that suggests the 7+ may be more efficient in low light than a higher power microinverter like the 7A, but I have not been able to independently confirm that. Nice looking system! As I begin year 4 with my DIY solar install, I''m very happy with the results!
Awesome. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Top tips for the iq8a Thanks
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Indeed you have to get the DC/Ac ratio right. But don’t go with to large of inverter then you risk loosing production early morning or winter. (A big inverter needs just a bit more sun to boot up)
Ps. I am going with IQ8+ for a dc/ac ratio of 1.2 in Michigan. And the sunlight backup is something I really look fwd too.
What size solar panels are you pairing with the IQ8+'s? Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
With IQ8+ using 370w panels how many times you clipped in max month? Or no clipping at all?
That was a very informative video. I will be lucky to produce 1.9 KWH panel at best. The solar panels or not producing enough to cover the electric bill. Everyone who has purchased the solar panels in my area are satisfied with the results.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
I enjoyed the video, it was very informative. My dad and stepmother had a solar system put on their house and before it was even wired in, they decided to go with a different system that was mounted in banks on the ground, out in the yard. They gave me the whole, unused system just for taking it off of the roof. I got everything from the house breaker box to the twenty-two solar panels. I really have no idea what to do with them, right now. It has the Enphase Photovoltaik System iq67.
That's awesome! Are you going to put it back on a roof or mount it in the ground? Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
@@JustinsProject I don't know what I am going to do with all of it. I hadn't planned on going solar but I knew that if I didn't get up there and get it off the house, dad would have someone up there ripping it off the house and throwing it in a dump truck. So, now I have a good start on a solar system. I have an enclosed trailer that I can store all of it in until I figure something out.
thank you for the insights ! it save lot of money !
Thank you for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Hey Justin I enjoyed your video having earlier this year gone through a similar Enphase install. To make you feel good about your IQ7+ choice, I did go with the IQ8M inverter (325w continuous) and the IQ combiner 4 for more than double what you paid. I also installed the same size (REC365w) panels and my roof is 180 degrees south at 23 degrees tilt. Got lots of good sun in San Diego. On the best of days I'll see the panels hit a bit over 295 watts, I've never seen a single one hit 300 watts. The sizing rule mentioned by the guy who owns a solar company is right on. My REC365aa panel have a NOTC/NMOT rating of 278 watts. Your IQ7+'s are dead on for your panels.
Winter clouds have been brutal. On those days, we get nowhere near clipping. On sunny days, even in the winter, my panels are producing enough to clip for up to 3 3.5 hours. I'll have a better understanding on this later in the year. This will be my first full year of production. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
@@JustinsProject Wonder if you rolled out just one of your IQ7+'s with a IQ7A to see just what your loosing in the clipping?
@@randynethery Good idea, I have been thinking about doing that to see what is being lost on a sunny day.
I would be very curious to see those results. I would expect to see maybe 4 hours pegged at 240 watts on one of the days that the others clip for 3.5 hours. @@JustinsProject
Justin, I used to think exactly like you, but then I learnt about clipping losses. Usually averaging between 10-14% of the panel Max production. So selecting micro inverter close to that number would be the optimized way to go.
STC rating of 370. PTC rating of 344. Although I am experiencing some clipping, I do not think it will be an issue for the next 3 months 😁 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
I built a groundmount rack that uses 1.5 inch pipe and ProSolar rails. 10 guage wires to the house for each string of 10 panels. I used a SunnyBoy grid-tie inverter that has grid failure power output when the sun shines. The main reason I did that was the voltage drop. The strings only send about 8 amps at 360 volts to the inverter, so v-drop is really low. When you use microinverters, the strings send more current at 240 VAC, and v-drop is higher. Instead of installing a tilt or tracking rack, it's cheaper just to install a fixed rack with more panels. And with a ground mount and some land, that is very easy to do.
Good point on adding more panels on a fixed mount vs. building an adjustable tilt. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Thanks for sharing your lessons.
Thanks for watching and commenting! 👍
@@JustinsProject -- I'm just starting to research solar now.
Thank for the tips.
Happy to help. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
thanks! nice to know.!
Thanks for watching and commenting! 👍
On a system like that I would've skipped micros all together and went with a decent hybrid string inverter giving offgrid capability as well. I have some IQ7X's and I'm satisfied with them for my application (AC coupled into a SA15k), but I don't think I'd use them for a larger 10kW+ system on their own.
On the wiring, I like to always go up a size and run any extra lines I think I "might" need in the future while I'm in there. It costs a little more, but can save a lot of headache in the future!
I'm not sure doing the adjustable ground mount would've been worth it for the small gain you might get, and it would be a lot more of an eyesore IMO, but you correctly point out they are easier to service!
Much appreciated 🙏 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Screw putting four more panels on the roof. That’s not worth it. Go put a whole new set up in the field ASAP. Great video thank you
If it were that easy I would had from the beginning 😁 Local restrictions put a hurt on my initial plans of a tilt ground mount. I might attempt a smaller inground array in the future. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Thanks for this video. I’m currently looking into putting a solar array on my garage rooftop( no other area available). Now I’m leaning towards a string inverter (DC) setup so I can charge a battery bank for charging an Ev. I think for equipment failure it would be easier at the ground level than the roof top.
👍
You are thinking about using a string inverter. You may want to consider the Bluetti EP900 for being grid connected or the Ep800 for offgrid. I did an install video on the Bluetti EP800 version. I can send you a link if you would like. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Don’t worry about panel oversizing. The max. Panel Wattage will only happen on few very cold and sunny days. Most of the time, panel temperature will reduce their output significantly. I think you are still fine with the iq7s. You might want to try a single iq8 for comparison.
Can not add IQ8 to an IQ7 system. They are not compatible. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
In AZ they have a peak setback requirement of 36" (could be a bit less I dont recall exactly). So don't kick yourself too much on the landscape orientation. You may have gotten denied on an attempt to go that far up on the roof. For clipping... go read some of the Enphase whitepaper -tons of real world testing done by them. Clipping is not as simple as the peaks. The ramp up to the peak needs to be taken into consideration too. Its a dynamic curve with gains and losses all day based on size of inverter. You didn't make a big mistake. Trust me. Anyway - real nice setup man - pro level for sure. I did a self install of 15kw of IQ7+ and 400w panels on my house. Been running a year - flawlessly. love it.
Congrats on building your solar system! Yes, there is a setback on the edges and ridge of a structure. My biggest mistake was not going forward with my ground mounted system. I will pursue that in the coming months. Then, I will test the clipping and oversll production with 7A's vs. my current 7+'s side by side on the same array. This is something I really want to test and share with everyone. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Nice work on putting that system together. One thing on that voltage drop. Since you’ve using enphase, your voltage drop won’t get any better if you add panels. Regardless of how many panels are in a string you’ll still output 240V and the length of your run hasn’t changed. So your voltage drop will be the exact same. As long as your under about 3% that’s what most consider an acceptable drop
Thanks for the tip! Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
I'm not sure that's entirely correct- the 'voltage drop' is the result of current in the cable and the resistance of the cable (ohm's law), which ultimately is power lost through heat in the cable. A thicker cable = less resistance and lower power losses. Adding more panels means more current in the cable, which means a higher 'voltage drop' and more power lost as heat; it's still the same ratio/proportion of power generated vs power lost, but still power lost!
Cool,thank you!
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Great tips, thanks! After learning how expensive battery systems are, I couldn't justify the cost. Lithium batteries are among the best, and tend to have less than 2000 charge / discharge cycles, or roughly 10 years of life, 15 if you're lucky, after which the thing is toast, and you need to pony up another $5K+. I instead decided to go with a simple backup generator at less than half the cost. they only need to be started about once a month, and if taken care of can easily last 20+ years. Some generators have the added benefit of being portable, and could be a completely independent/redundant system. If you go with a lithium battery system, they degrade in extreme heat or cold, so will likely last a few more years if kept indoors.
Exactly! You just highlighted some of the reasons I didn't add a battery back up. The ROI just is not there yet. With the new F150 and its intelligence backup power these systems will act as a battery bank. This is going to be the industry standard with new EV models coming to market. Eventually we all will be driving EV's. For now, a generator will work to power the essentials in time of need. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Where did you get 2000? SOK and EG4 LiFeP04 batteries have 7000 cycle life
I added a 200Ah 24V LiFePO4 battery backup system to my solar system for $3500 (DIY). It will power critical loads for about 10 hrs and allow for solar generation during the day when the public utility grid is down.
how do you use a backup generator to store solar power?
Those cycles are full 0-100%? I would expect BMS to only keep batteries charged 20% up to 80% to maintain much higher longevity. I have 11 years old EV with the original Li-Ion battery never charged over 80% and it is still way above 80% of the rated capacity and much more than 2000 “cycles”.
Here after making the same mistake. I did a whole lotta research on solar panels but didn't pay much attention to micro-inverters coz Enphase is a reputed brand. When I saw the output was limited to 5kW on my 6.8kW (400W panels) system, I finally looked at the iq7+ spec sheet and saw the output. I sent an email to my installer but I don't think they'll do anything about it. Ashamed of myself, being an Electrical Engineer, for having missed out on that little detail before signing the contract. I wish I'd have come across the video sooner.. would have saved me a lot of heartache.
I'm sorry to hear that. Some believe that is a great pairing. I still question that since the microinverters are maxed for a couple of hours a day on every sunny day. I can't wrap my head around how maxing out an electrical component day in and day out for years is good for the microinverters. Most electrical components would fail if maxed for hours at a time, every day, year after year. As an electrical engineer, would you agree on that?
I appreciate your video and have the same issue. I have (35) 350 watt Panasonic panels with IQ7plus's. I didn't do the research as I was pretty new to the solar universe when I had my system installed and I am not sure the IQ8 was even available. I trusted the professionals I hired to take care of me with the design (They did for the most part. My system produces electricity as advertised), but I think as you do that the system would be more productive with IQ8's. Now it's a +/-$6500 upgrade if I do it myself to switch to IQ8's and I am not sure that the production gain from the upgrade is worth it. I do wonder how much clipping I am experiencing and appreciate all the comments and discussion here that is helping me mull this over. Thanks for the great video.
I am in the process of figuring all this out. I have 31x 400w Bifacial panels that I will be installing at ground level sometime this year. Maybe I can figure out if a larger microinverter is better or if it's just a waste. I will be sure to share that with everyone as I start that project also. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Good tips.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
You actually have a really cool system despite the small flaws you see in it. The overszing pays off at the end . Year 15 forward. Hard to wait for that though.
Appreciate it 🙏 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
How about starting the permitting process for the ground mount now and when/if it gets approved you can move all the hardware you already own to the ground mount. Since you're already producing, there is no big rush. Just a thought. Thanks for the update on your system.
It's expensive, plus there are no guarantees. Its left up to 3 members of the board and my neighbors. SMH. If something happens in the future that gives me that opportunity I will probably do something like you suggested though. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
It's cheaper and more effective to upsize your system and leave it on the shop roof. I installed my panels in landscape orientation with roof penetrations at the top of each column (four panels). So, two circuits (strings) of eleven panels (max with IQ8A's), three branches to each string. All the wiring under the roof is solid core 12AWG MC cable, to the J-box under-roof, then 10 ga to the Combiner4 box. I'm seeing zero voltage drop in about 50 feet of wire from the last panel to the combiner box.
@@JustinsProject forgiveness-not permission.
or bribery.
I recently completed a 15Kw DC system with LG NeON 380w panels paired with IQ7+ inverters. This is in the Phoenix area and I have seen no clipping on the daily Enphase graphs over the last 7 months. On totally sunny days (often in Phoenix) the graphs from the Enlighten app are perfectly rounded with no clipping at the peak of the day, just my experience, for reference.
That is interesting. Phoenix is a sunny place 😁 - I'm paired with S-Energy 370w panels in Central KY. Fairly sunny nothing like Phoenix though. My azimuth positioning is almost perfect for a stationary system. I am experiencing clipping on full sun days. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Probably the temperature is too hot in Phoenix. As the ambient temperature goes up, the output of the panels decreases.
@@serraios1989 yep. In some places, the temp coefficient on the panels is the most important thing.
Its totally possible to have clipping and still have rounded graphs. At least on my system its there but not flat. If I take the number of panels and multiply by 295 I get 7,375. The system never gets above 7.4k. Even in May which is the biggest production month here in Florida. I did see the clipping on similar systems with REC panels (they handle the heat better than LG). Anyhow as Enphase emailed me, clipping is a non issue.
@@shroud1390
I have 395w panels with iq7+ in three arrays facing east, south, west and there is some clipping from the south facing micros, however the graph is always a round curve. Probably the iq7a on the south panels would have yielded more. We are in the UK
Hey really good information please keep it going and stay safe 👍
I have the IQ8plus. My panels are rated at 420 but I get 900 to 988
Your 420w panel is producing 900w?
Hindsight is the only exact science thanks for the info 🏴🇺🇸🏴
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
In some places with many cloud, rain, snow days, etc. having a DC/AC ratio like yours is an advantage because they turn on earlier, and turn off later and more production with less sunlight. If you have a lot of full sun days each year though then 8A suggestion makes sense for those situations.
Thanks for sharing 👍🏻
Very helpful. I do have Iq8s in my plan, but I hadnt considered the smart switch. Im not going to get it off the hop, we dont have many power outages, but it'll be an option down the road
If you're getting the IQ8's I would recommend the smart switch. The 30% credit would help with the overall out of pocket. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
@@JustinsProject 30% rebate? I must have missed that in the video(?)
@@SSMLivingPictures Sorry I put rebate, tax credit is the right word there.
@@JustinsProject Ah 10-4.
you have a great system probaly the best price nice job ibelieve ev are coming you may need more output then design a ground mount system for the future until then enjoy your grea system ps i do the same as you on projects i do cause thinking peole are always a thinking
😁 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
You should’ve used a Solar Time Tracker absolutely work great
I was planning a ground mount but due to local red tape I choose to put it on the roof. I wish I could have just put it in the ground like I wanted. I would have had an adjustable mount, it is what it is. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Didn't care for the clickbait style title and had to use 2x speed on the vid, but it was packed with good insight. appreciate the share, but you got lucky that I clicked it
I didn't think it was clickbait. That wasn't my intention. Thanks for the feedback.
Very interesting, I've listened to an installer that definitely preferred the Enphase and the microinverters over the Solaredge which we own. For some reason, the Solaredge stock is performing better than Enphase, I need to do more research on that.
Enphase makes a great product. Their customer service and technical support are fantastic. I've seen many stocks in my time underperform competitors even though their product was superior. I can only recommend Enphase from my experience. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Your panels will produce less energy each year. First year is about a 3% drop and then 0.5% each year after. The datasheet shows power at 25C which never happens when you are producing near max power. Normally in summer the panels are hot, lowering the voltage, and don't put out near their peak power....drop another 5%. Panels also won't hit the perfect angle with sun - with a steeper roof they could, but you probably drop another 5% for off angle production. And when panels are dirty you lose another 1-5%. So under sizing an inverter is generally a good idea. You can also put more small inverters on the same circuit. The extra money spent on each inverter can account for a lot of clipping....might be in the 100 years of clipping when you actually do the math. Anyway, don't sweat it, I would have done the same thing.
Muc appreciate it 🙏 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Watch how you add panels, there is a fire code that requires 3’ of access on the roof for firefighters. Not sure about the code in that area. Great video.
That is true. If I add anything additional, it will be in the ground now. I just go through the special permit process. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
IQ8's are good but weren't available for me and still arent here in the UK. I agree you should have got IQ7A for the little cost difference even at the time of doing it you would have got another 20% production; but also if your using enphase gateway its also clipped to 10Kw. I am huge fan of solar clipping over sizing; like you now know what you get and you will get that production for the entire life span of the panels. Also dont beat your self up on the panel on roof. You can always leave that alone and simply do the floor mounting AS WELL that would be awesome! all the best dude!
Thanks for sharing. I am considering Hoymiles for my next system.
Good information, thanks. Since it would require walking through the same process again to upgrade I’m done for now. I’m grid connected in an urban area, and my system was done nearly 4 years ago. I went with Enphase batteries as well. This stuff changes so fast, upgrading to the best every two years would be the only way to stay current, and for regular people that is just not possible. Thanks again,
I agree, trying to keep up with technology is a losing game but it's fun to dream. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍
Whoopie, thanks for your video - we just wanted to buy IQ7+ microinverters for 400 Wp panels :-)
I am still in debate whether that should be +'s or A's. Either way, you will be ok. Thanks for watching and commenting!👍
Yeah, you are clipping a decent amount with your larger panels. I went with IQ7 (not even plus) but I have 325watt panels for that array and the small clipping in the couple sunny months that hit the peaks was worth saving the money in my case. In your case, upping to IQ8A would have been worth the money. I maxed out my inverter my utility allowed too though, so that was a bit of the consideration too. There's a lot of variables with solar! My other array is 2 strings into a 5.1kW inverter, no clipping for the 5.4kW of oversize panels on that array. Very happy with what I have but I didn't know 100% what would happen until it was installed!
Congrats on your solar system. I am happy with my system also. My goal is to test those theories of clipping and what microinverter should be used where. By having real life studies side by side in real time. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
I have enphaase. I have the great system. It is on my roof. Can't put in field. So it had to go on roof. But we had to do the lay out you have due to fire Marshall laws. I've have 2 batteries. Even though my state won't let you go off grid. Reality is I am off the grid. Enphase has a great product. No issues w wiring. Iam going to add 3 more panels.
Awesome! Thanks for watching and commenting! 👍
We have a 16K ground mount using Qcell 400 watt G10 panels and IQ7A Microinverters which have the same specs as the IQ8A. However the 7 doesn't have the capacity to make the solar available during a power outage. That feature on the 8 provides such little power we decided it wasn't worth the extra expense.
Yeah I should have did the IQ7A but we saved so much on IQ7+ that is ok even if it clips on sunny days. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
So you're running Q-cell 400 G10's with IQ7A M.I.'s ... How are they running? Do you ever reach saturation? Do they clip? I'm about to put on REC 405 panels with IQ8M M.I.'s. I've considered the 8A but haven't pulled the trigger.
Turned on the system 9/20/22 So far no clipping or saturation but we'll see what happens in July.
I own a business that just crested 55,000 installations.
The best way to size an enphase array is to take the NOTC rating of the panel and add 10-15% on a fleet wide data set. Then take that number and reduce it by ~ 4%, which happens to a new panel inside 6 months in most cases. Even if you are getting bit of clipping right out of the gate, it will be gone quickly and is best sized for the life of the product.
With 55000 installs I will certainly accept that feedback 💯. If you don't mind, I'm just trying to learning something. Why add the 10-15% before reducing that 4%? If my memory serves me correctly my PTC was rated at 344w. If I add 10-15% and reduce 4% it puts me right back at 370ish. The guarantee is less than 1% loss in output annually over 25yrs. 80% by year 25. If my math is right that would have me crossing 300w (ptc) at year 13-14. At that point my 7+'s would be still capping near 100% production on a great day. I am just trying to see if this was the absolute most optimal setup. Don't get me wrong, I am extremely happy with what I built. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
@@JustinsProject there are two ratings STC is a perfect scenario generation on a perfect day and an NOTC which is quite a bit lower and more like what a panel should make on the average day. Adding some to notc for a good scenario but then calculating for 1 year panel drop. After that a tier one panel drops about .4% annually.
At the end of the day the goal is to make good reliable power for the life of the product to be sure the customer gets what they asked for and mitigate service issues down the line. An “optimal” system is one that that reduces or eliminates your power bill according to what was anticipated and installed in a manner that is safe and efficient.
Thank you very much for this very helpful video! What are your thoughts about hoymiles microinverter?
I have a couple of videos on Hoymiles microinverters. They are very impressive from a statistical point of view. I can't wait to get to test them out in a real-life scenario. That may happen sometime soon. 🤫🤐
Awesome J
Thanks for all the Great insights. if shading is absolutely not an issue with a ground mount system, is there any reason to get micro inverters? ? THX !
Not really, incase you can get them for about the same cost of a quality string inverter. I got really good deals on mine. I have absolutely no shading concerns on my array either. I do love the monitoring capabilities down to the panel level though. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
On my roofs I install a roofing jack one foot back so I can service gutters and have a solar safety net... roof jacks: (fixed not adjustable) from Home Depot and bolt through 1 1/2 square galvanized bar, as a safety guide, and I wear (the best rope system in the world-the whole time on metal)
Good idea. Thanks for sharing 👍🏻
I have a small installation (Array A: 4 x 325W panels with M250 microinverters / Array B: 2 x 455W panels with IQ7+ microinverters). Between 11:00 and 13:00 array B was clipping at 600W. So I recently swapped my IQ7+ for IQ8HA and now I'm getting more than 600W between 11:00 and 14:00, up to 700W at around 13:00. Small improvement, but I think it was worth it.
Thank you for sharing! Did you have to swap you old combiner box to get the IQ8's to work on the older IQ7 hardward? Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
@@JustinsProject I did not use a Combiner box (not the Enphase version anyway). It is just a small load center, I just added a new breaker for the IQ8's and that's it. A side effect is now I have 2 Envoys: The old Envoy-R for the M-250 micros and a new IQ Envoy for the IQ8 (I had to upgrade the Envoy firmware to make it work with the IQ8's)
I SMASHED that like button! I SMASHED it real good!
Much much appreciated! Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
I just found out the same things on my solar system. If you want batteries look up sun fun kits out of Baton rouge. Two inverters in a sub panel and 8 /300 amp hr batteries 4kw per battery. 32kw total. 800 bucks per battery if you put them together.
I just installed 15kWh of Bluetti batteries. I made an install video on that and will have more videos coming soon. Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
My mistake was not installing the smart switch as well. I have the IQ8PLUS inverters. 10kw system. Split the array to avoid voltage drop.
I am building something cool this year. Can't wait to share it with everyone. I might replace my Enphase system with something new. 😁 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Awesome work on these vids, Justin!!! Thank you. I'm wondering if anyone knows anyone installing solar in the Tulsa, Oklahoma area. I would like two or three quotes BUT everyone is trying to sell the "high-interest-net-metering" rip-off. Grid-tie is great if you are just reducing electricity costs but I have been planning a "hybrid" system (grid-tie with off-grid ability) I want to pay someone cash to help me with my system
Much appreciated 🙏 Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Landscape orientation can gobble up 30% more rail and may not be allowed by the solar panel manufacturers installation manual. Landscape orientation can allow dirt accumulation along the edge of the module and if it accumulates along the long side of the module the power output could be drastically affected as compared to portrait orientation. Many module manufacturers do not allow the modules to be secured on the short dimension of the module and will void the warranty.
I went with S-Energy panels. Mistake. I can't even contact their customer service. I could imagine if I needed to file a warranty claim. They are performing well, but if I ever have an issue, I am probably up the creek without a paddle. 😁
Some solar companies will cheap out on inverters too and do series inverters that are not good if you have some shaded panels (the whole zone of panels will match the output of the lowest output panel). Microinverters matched to your solar panel size seems to be the way to go.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Justin... new to your channel and enjoying video's Im just looking into a solor ground system why did you go with enphase
Welcome to the channel! Glad to have you here. I picked Enphase because of their warranty and service. There are a lot of good choices out there though. I am looking into putting my system on the ground now also. If that is what you want, do it from the start. I wish I would have. Thanks for watching and commenting!