Atheism vs Christianity
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2025
- If I was an atheist I would be logically compelled to conclude we have no true purpose, no ultimate meaning, and no genuine morality, beauty or value. I’m not alone in this view. Many atheists have made the same devastating conclusion. Interestingly, this seems to push against common human perception and my own incredibly strong intuitions of these things (it most likely goes against yours as well). This alone is a strong reason to challenge atheism.
On the other hand, Christians have a clear purpose, meaning, and concepts of morality, beauty and value.
My website BibleThinker.org
By your logic, God, not being created, cannot have a purpose. If God had a purpose, that purpose would transcend God. So, you're saying that our purpose is given to us by something that doesn't itself have a purpose?
God is all good, perfect and all knowing, so he does not need a purpose as created beings do. However, God’s actions do have purpose such as preaching as the son, to expand the kingdom of heaven. I hope that helped.
@@planetx64 That means our purpose is given to us by a being that doesn’t itself have a purpose, making our existence ultimately purposeless, even if God exists.
Yes, you helped, by confirming what I said. Thank you.
God doesn't need an ultimate purpose any more than we do. It's not even possible for there to be an ultimate purpose.
@@Griexxtwhat I was trying to say, but didn’t clearly articulate is that there is nothing higher than God, and therefore nothing higher for him to serve. But that doesn’t take away his meaning, nor the meaning we have as created beings. As Paul explains in Romans 16-17, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, 'The righteous shall live by faith.”
I hope this clarifies. God bless.
@@planetx64 If God is a being who just happens to exist for no particular reason, then it has no purpose. Whatever purpose it chose to create us for is then, by the logic of apologists who like to portray a life without God as ultimately purposeless, still ultimately purposeless. God's existence serves no purpose, so whatever God creates also serves no purpose. What Paul wrote doesn't change that, he was just another human, like you and me.
I'm not looking for a debate with you, I'm simply explaining why I think apologists like Mike here are throwing rocks in glass houses.
@Griexxt God doesn't exist for "no particular reason". If we define God as "that than which nothing greater can be conceived" then it must follow that God exists because existence is greater than non-existence. The same goes for all his attributes (omnipotence is greater than weakness, omniscience is greater than lack of knowledge, etc).
God exists because He can't not exist.
On a side note, Gaunilo argued that the same can be said of any kind of thing in the universe. You can theorize the greatest island that would have all its attributes perfected. The argument fails because the island is a physical thing, therefore it cannot be the greatest in any measure since it's limited by the physical. And if you did have an island that wasn't limited by the material world, it wouldn't be an island anymore. It would be God.
This is why you can't look at his lack of servitude to a nonexistent higher being as purposelessness. His purpose is found in being the greatest being that could exist.
He created man not because He was lonely but because He wanted to shower His glory and "greatness" on them through fellowship in the garden.
I'm grateful that you don't start arguments for argument's sake, but this issue is a lot more complicated than what you describe. In any case, this issue has been discussed for many hundreds of years and I could also be wrong. Take care.
"The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man." -Ecclesiastes 12:13.
Just remember, when you quote a scripture, from a book you claim was written by the god you claim exists as proof of the very thing someone else doesn’t believe in, your argument falls flat.
@@ChrisPyle His point is, as a Christian the purpose is made clear in the Bible. Even an atheist would be right in convicting someone who identifies as a Christian of being apathetic or heretical, if they fail to preach that they should love God, love others, and do so by at least sharing the gospel.
Likewise, if say an atheist is a humanist, and then doesn't preach procreation, encourages their lover to get an abortion, doesn't want to support their children, etc., then anyone else would be right in calling them out as not being a humanist in their own life.
I also like Micah 6:8, not a perfect fit but helps provide a good frame of reference
Nice reference Joel, and fits perfectly with Mike's thoughts on purpose. Jesus said, "If you love me, you will obey my commandments." (John 14:15) I think fearing God in this context (Ecc 12:13) means a deep reverence for God, and keeping His commandments demonstrates authentic love for Him. Great verse!
@@jasongillis1336 I have a great appreciation for my life and the fact I’m here. What I still can’t get clarity on, is how do I know your invisible man is the one true invisible man, when every culture, in every language, has always claimed to have the one true invisible man? Is it because you have book you claim the invisible man wrote that says so? Do I really need to list how many others have the same exact thing?
The notion of having some preordained purpose sounds awful to me. I have plenty of purpose in my life. Provide for my family, love my wife and kids and make sure they are happy, live each day to the fullest because it’s the only life we’ve got. All with zero need for a god and chosen by me as to how I want to live. I don’t know why atheism is so offensive to the religious crowd.
+Mark Petten, writes _'I don’t know why atheism is so offensive to the religious crowd."_
It's because it reminds them that their beliefs are irrational.
@@fred_derf well I can’t argue that.
If atheism lacks anything, it would be the feel-good of thinking that a magic super-being is protecting you and eventually going to right all the wrongs that you suffer, whenever He finally manages to get off His Duff. But what religion lacks is the honesty and rationality to admit the unlikelihood of such a super-being, that could create our world in 7 days, yet not manage to get it working correctly in 15 billion years, despite His supposed perfection and omnipotent power.
The feel-good of religion would be a harmless escapist fantasy, if it did not render people so utterly delusional that Christians can do such things as to jabber how Vladimir Putin was "sent by God", in spite of the fact that he is a bloody, serial murderer.
There is an e-book on Barnes and Noble called ' Concerning Christ' with a praying child on the cover , read it and then see if you can still hold on to your false beliefs , everything you think is real is just an illusion , it's time to wake up
Honestly, as an Athiest your videos are pretty interesting. You seem quite respectful for the most part and willing to engage in rational discussion. This is really good to see, all religious people should aspire to be like you, learning from atheism rather than condemning it. I really admire you for that, despite being an atheist myself and so disagreeing with you on many things.
I doubt you’ll see this or care to respond but, just in case I might as well put it out there as a show of good faith: if it at all interests you I would be open to a debate/discussion with you about… pretty much any topic relating to religion. I’m always eager to learn from people with perspectives I might disagree with. I’d even be willing to share my reasons for why I don’t personally believe in God, if that’s at all something you’re interested in.
But that aside, keep up to good work, and keep being someone worthy of respect!
From Christian, this is such a lovely comment.
Agreed. This is a very respectful comment. When any groups that disagree can have discussion without aggression and genuinely listen and hear the views of ths of other is extremely helpful.
@@JordanMayjor3p7 I absolutely agree! And though I’ve yet to hear a convincing case for why I should believe in God, I don’t see why that makes the people who do idiots, so there’s no need to treat them as such. It would just be needlessly disrespectful.
@@inaminayo5327 You seem like a very respectful person as a christian i respect athiests who can respect christians and vice versa, as for a reason to believe in God i would say the best reason is the fact that we have morality. Cause without there being some reason or meaning or God in existence then we really wouldnt have any reason for morality, lets say everyone on earth never believed in any religion, we honestly probably wouldnt have gotten past the days in early mesopotamia because we would realize as self aware deep thinking beings there is no true purpose of us existing or anything after death just emptyness whether you live a full life or die the day you are born it would all end the same way in nothingness, and also i honestly belive the fact we are deeply thinking and self aware phylisophical beings is very strong proof for God because coming from neanderthals to what we are now and us being the only creatures on earth to evolve that way by random chance or even selective mutation is incredibly incredibly rare, i would think it would be more likely for a being to give us a soul and consience or "Form us from the dust" as it says in genisis, that was just being like other pack animals and evolve us to a higher level of thinking and conciousness. But im curious on your opinion of this and this is more of evidence on why we need God to exist rather than on how God exists cause even God himself answers moses on the mountain with "I AM" so i believe think of that would just melt a brain😂
few Christians have any problems with atheists , it's the anti-theists that are the problem , usually because they spend most of their lives lying through their teeth , they know full well there is a God , they just hate Him so much they want to apply 'cancel culture' on Him , and that will never work
Atheism lacks a child killer
Theism certainly does not
Exodus 11:4-5
About midnight I will go throughout Egypt.
Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well.
i was an atheist before this video…
Still am.
If your morals are derived from solely from doctrine , then you are not a moral person at all. You are just obedient.
I’d love to ask for prayer for my husband. He’s agnostic (so at least not fully against anything!) but I really feel that God will bring him to salvation. I’ve been praying and trust in God, and I’d love for other believers to pray with me too 🥰
You got it
Pray to god and ask him what you should tell him that would convince a god exist. Or maybe god doesn’t want him to know he exists? Maybe prayer goes unanswered? Maybe a god just doesn’t exist? Who knows
Unfortunately, prayer doesn't work. Respect your husband enough to let him make up his own mind.
I'd hope you're agnostic too.
@@RainParrie Just prayed for him. 🙏✝️
Why should I glorify a deity that I don't believe exists? I do have a purpose and it has nothing to do with any belief in any deity.
With the hammer analogy, it's like YOU invented the hammer for a purpose, set the hammer down and stepped away. Then, someone else discovers your hammer and theorizes it must have manifested itself into being and then goes out to use the hammer however they feel best. Then, when you find your hammer and the person who took it and confront them about what it is and what it's for, they proceed to argue with you asserting that you couldn't have possibly made the hammer (and because they weren't there when you made it, you struggle to persuade them otherwise).
.,100% true but maybe the christian god is just a stupid construct of humans and have nothing to do with the real "god" and the real purpose and you are just living your life thinking you have a real purpose when it has been fake all along
In others words they found another purpose of the hammer. Aka purpose is subjective.
@@darrylelam256 Jack the ripper took the hammer to his victim's heads. Theists and their silly arguments.
14:14: What is a "genuinely ungodly occupation"?
A priest in the Satanic church or an Imam delivering a fatwa or anyone doing anything you don't agree with? What makes your religion - out of the thousands - the right one and not a "genuinely ungodly occupation"?
I am not all the way through the video, but my first thought for a response to the "What verses mention the purpose of life being to worship/glorify God?" question is Solomon's conclusion in Ecclesiastes 12:
13 The conclusion, when everything has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. 14 For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil.
Also the Mark 12 passage of the tribute to Caesar comes to mind:
17 And Jesus said to them, “Pay to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” And they were utterly amazed at Him.
Since Jesus said to give to Caesar what was in his image, the logical conclusion would be to give to God what is in His image: ourselves.
´*100% true but maybe the christian god is just a stupid construct of humans and have nothing to do with the real "god" and the real purpose and you are just living your life thinking you have a real purpose when it has been fake all along
@@a.39886 unlikely
@@BeatisMcScoots I guess you think all other religions in the world are fake and human construct yet christianity is somehow special because if from the true god and not for a fake god
@@a.39886 Let's skip all the preliminary stuff. I would like to hear what you believe and why you do. Do you believe that all religions are connected?
@@BeatisMcScoots I say you and me are similar both believe that all religions in the world are false I mean you have one exception and I have not.
Is that helpful to identify
Mike as usual you have built an atheist straw man. Atheism is not monolithic and means different things to different people. However, fundamentally it is a response to theistic claims of the existence of God or gods. Theists believe gods exist atheists do not. Theists get their hope, meaning and purpose from their god belief and atheists do not.
A Kalahari bushman does not get his hope ,meaning, and purpose from Abrahamic religions.
I would love their to be a transcendental purpose to life, but nobody has told me how they know what that is.
In the first three minutes, not only has he not made one sound argument in support of God, he has also stated (see note to 2:50) this video is based on the assumption that God exists.
This is a presupposition. Which by definition is an unsound position.
0:07 - What he believes doesn't concern me. What he can reasonably argue, however, is (and also what I asked you to provide).
0:25 - He says, essentially, that there would be no transcendend purpose to life. Let's see where this goes, because on it's face that, too, is irrelevant. It's an emotional position based on him desiring there to be a transcendend purpose to life.
1:08 - Asking about the purpose of a hammerlike object that wasn't created: He's obviously still on about the previous point.
1:37 - More or less just repeated what he already said around 0:25.
1:45 - Weighing the goodness or badness of a purpose: A moral evaluation is always subjective (even if it's just your subjective evaluation that another objective declaration is good), at which point we'd enter a whole different topic of morality.
1:55 - No external purpose being a "psychologically daunting thing to consider": No, it isn't. I understand why it might seem that way from the perspective of someone who believes there is an external purpose to their life, but to anyone else, it really isn't.
2:01 - Saying without god there would be no purpose or no moral values: Wrong. There wouldn't be god's purpose or god's moral values. I don't believe god exists, yet I do hold moral values - negating his point.
He's talking about objective morality here, which - again - is a whole different topic and also does not provide sound support that God exists.
2:50 - Seems like this video isn't about reasoning God into existence but rather presupposing God existing and going from there, asking what our purpose would be in that case.
What is the difference between a Christian and an atheist?
A Christian believes that children are created by a Hebrew god named Yahweh with the sin of disobedience on their "soul" and only through submission and obedience to Yahweh and his son Yeshua can they attain salvation. Salvation meaning eternal happiness with Yahweh.
An atheist is not convinced that this belief is either true or necessary.
An atheist who is not bound by religion is free to create his own purpose in life.
So it doesn’t matter what you do in life?
If you were an atheist, you'd watch this video you made and laugh at least as loud as I did. I'm not convinced you can actually have a reasonable conversation with a non-believer.
You had me in the first half ngl
Unless you mean that you're not convinced that Mike specifically can actually have a reasonable conversation with a non-theist?
If so, I agree.
@@whatwecalllife7034 Mike is ridiculous, and he says ridiculous things.
My favorite book, and favorite verse, in the Bible is Ecclesiastes 1:2-4. "Meaningless, meaningless!" says the teacher, "everything is utterly meaningless! What does man gain for all of his labors under the sun? Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever."
The Hebrew word for "meaningless" (or futility, vanity) is hevel, and it means smoke or vapor. The teacher is comparing all of man's works to grabbing smoke - you see it and it looks solid, but when you grab on to it, it slips out of your grasp. "Under the sun" means a world without God, heaven, or eternity. When you take those things out of the equation then everything truly is meaningless. "Here is the conclusion of the matter: fear God, and keep his commands, for this is the duty of all mankind" (Eccl 12:13). The book of Ecclesiastes is a great philosophy on what life looks like without God. Spoilers: it's a super depressing book - but will always be my favorite!
TL;DR: Go read Ecclesiastes!
This is dumb. Did he not even asks some atheists if they had purpose? I don't know any atheists that would say they have no purpose.
This seems like a straw man he's setup.
As an atheist I'm very ok with there being no divine propose prescribed to my existence. That is a comfort not a "devastating conclusion"
It is interested that for many believers who recognize that they personally have a strong desire or emotional need for there to be a purpose given to their lives they don't though consider this emotional need as being ripe for manipulation by religions and cults who tell them what that purpose is. Instead they think "Well I have a strong desire to be given purpose, this religion gives me a purpose, thus this is evidence the religion is true"
To put it in terms a Christian might be more familiar with, wouldn't it sound strange for a person to say "I have a strong desire to have lots of sex, this brothel fulfills my desire to do that, thus this brothel must be the correct way for me to live my life"
A Christian would immediately be able to separate the "I have a desire for this" from "thus it is true"
Often people become atheists in the first place because they do the same thing with the human emotional needs and desires that Christians use as evidence for God, such as a desire for purpose, a desire for objective morality, a desire for order, a desire for life after death, a desire for forgiveness etc
Christians say well we wouldn't have those desires if there wasn't a God that exists to fulfill them. But what is the reason to suppose that. Just for a moment imagine we have all of those desires for other reasons. Would any particular religion seem quite as obviously true if you started from that position.
It is when you realize that just because you have those desires doesn't mean that anything outside of ourselves exists to fulfill that (often coupled with a greater understanding of the natural reasons such desires exist in the first place), and in fact that the existence of these desires can in fact make people prone to accepting manipulation from religion and cults, that the world makes a lot more sense.
Of course it might make more sense but it is also emotionally devastating if you really want to be given a story that seems to fulfill your emotional needs. It is easy for me to say reject this and become an atheist, it wasn't that hard for me to do this since as I said at the top I didn't find these stories emotionally fulfilling in the first place. So I don't hold anything against Christians who would genuinely be devastated by such a realization. The only thing I can say is that, in my experience from other atheists, you eventually come through to the other side of this and realize that actually it isn't that bad.
Very true. After leaving theism and the Jehovah's Witnesses my mom's first word were all about "what are you going to believe," and "how can you not have hope, I can't do that, I won't do that." Her desire for the things Christianity has promised her keeps her in no matter what I try to tell her. Sad.
As an atheist, yes, I have no higher purpose. No, I don't think it's "psychologically daunting".
When I believed in having a preordained higher purpose, I was more anxious.
I'm not saying everybody thinks that way. I'm not saying belief makes you anxious. I'm not saying a lack of belief is universally freeing. What I am saying is that I reject that there are universal rules or paths. Some people are better off thinking how I do. Some people aren't. The world is weird and complex.
What is it about a preordained higher purpose that made you feel more anxious than having no purpose? I’m genuinely curious.
@@kolbywilliams7234 A feeling of not fulfilling that higher purpose or sometimes a lack of autonomy.
But if there's no higher purpose, how can you evaluate what it means to be better off? To have no purpose reduces rather than frees, or at least the freedom you have in being reduced relates to a lack of responsibility and/or potential. A man who does not need to work is spared that burden, but also all the excellence that can come about as well. So my concern is that the freedom gained by such a perspective is really a poor trade.
Also what do you mean by you reject there are "universal rules or paths"? This isn't a surprising opinion given, if you'll allow me to suggest, that you already hold to there being ~no rules or paths~ of any meaningful value anyway. If there is no purpose, what does it matter one path to another after all? They all just become equal choices of meaninglessness objectively speaking.
There must be something that's at least better. And if there's better, there is a standard by which we can appeal to. If there is a standard there is an authority to which that standard originates. If there are authorities to which we can appeal to, there must be a best authority providing a related best standard, or path as you say. Let us find that, rather than say there is purpose.
@@CarlosRodriguez-dh7mm you set goals for your children, but you realize that they will probably not fulfill them all, as we are human.
Does that make you love them less?
No.
Do you set boundaries for your child, like don’t wander off down the street at night?
Yes.
It’s the same with God.
You’re anxious about not living up to His expectations, when all He wants you to do is what you ask if your own kids - Love and trust Him
@@CarlosRodriguez-dh7mm
I can understand the first reason. I’m quite interested in your second reason, though.
What does it mean to be autonomous, to you?
Great video Mike! Whenever people ask what the purpose of life is, I always lead them to the book of Ecclesiastes and show them the classic "The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil."
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14
m100% true but maybe the christian god is just a stupid construct of humans and have nothing to do with the real "god" and the real purpose and you are just living your life thinking you have a real purpose when it has been fake all along
“Don’t try, just accept that this is true” is not the supportive or profound message you may think it sounds like.
your god sounds like an abusive husband turned stalker
@@MsLemon42 PVT Lee Lemon you must humble yourself in order to be anointed by the Holy Dopamine Ghost via Placebo Faith.
😇🧠👻
Terrible video Mike....
I needed to hear this. I’ve been struggling with severe illness for a long time and it gets really hard to feel like there’s a purpose in this existence.
What illness?
@@theparadigmshift74 Chronic Inflammatory Demyelinating Polyneuropathy and Lupus are the two causing the most disability.
@@selahr. i had to look those up. I wasnt sure what those were! That does sound tough to deal with
I have LUPUS and heart issues and my strength comes from the LORD. He is the only way to face life. It is difficult and painful and some days are harder than others, but never ever lose faith. If we lose faith we lose purpose. If we lose purpose we have lost the battle the LORD be with you all xxx
I mean there really isn't, but you can delude yourself if it makes you happy 👍
Westminster Shorter Catechism
Q. 1. What is the chief end of man?
A. Man’s chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever.
1 Cor. 10:31, "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God."
Rom. 11:36, "For from him and through him and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen." Etc.
Children's Catechism
Q. 4. How can you glorify God?
A. By loving him and doing what he commands.
Most Reformed folks who are catechized, know the answer to this question, and should be able to point you to a verse or two. You've said some good things, which is all in agreement with these Catechisms. Blessings!
Why does it matter if it aligns with the catechism? If it aligns with God’s word, The Bible, there is no need to measure it against another standard. Therefore, the catechism is at best, redundant. Though because it is made by man, not God, it is fallible and able to contradict God’s word. To measure wisdom against a fallible text while having access to an infallible one seems to me a futile exercise.
@@kolbywilliams7234 The catechism is summary of what the Bible teaches (which is exactly what Mike did in this video).
So, I could point you to specific verses, I did (and Mike did), or I could summarize those for you, which the first questions in the SC does. You are simply mistaken on why the needs for Catechism, or Confession, or Creeds.
The point was the many folks to know the answer to Mike's question, because they have been brought up on the Catechism, which again, is simply a summary of what the Bible teaches. Okay, so it's redundant. I could say that about Mike's comments, or any other summary teaching of scripture.
I would simply point you to:
The Need for Creeds Today: Confessional Faith in a Faithless Age. John Fesko (Baker)
The Creedal Imperative. Carl Trueman (Crossway).
" A 'noble' lie is part of the lie."
The "Golden Rule" is more "gold-plated".
@@aliveandwellinisrael2507 I don't get it.🤷
@@aliveandwellinisrael2507How so?
Athiest here. If a god wanted you to glorify it here on earth and for trillions of years after we die then the god would be here. Not hiding to 99 percent of the world in the past 3000 years and zero presence before that. Also later on he talks of Adam and Eve in a perfect relationshop without sin. Problem is god introduced sin by adding it as an ingredient into the garden of eden, so it was purpously made not perfect. If you can believe such things. I mean seriously.
Being told to love a god and and also to fear him is the exact definition of a masochistic relationship. Not for me thank you!
You don’t have to. Since you don’t want to, God gives you exactly what you have declared you wanted.. Eternal separation from Him.
As an atheist I agree with you but it's important to consider that the word "fear" in this context isn't meant necessarily as raw terror (although I have seen it used that way) but more of an awed respect; at least that's my understanding.
@@nikola1251that's actually pretty spot-on; hell is the example he should have used. Only a sadistic being would create a place like hell.
The original Hebrew translation is actually to "revere" God, in other words, think of someone in Authority who you greatly admire and love but you also respect them so much you wouldn't challenge their authority or knowledge. God wants us to love him like that and he wants to love and care for us like his children
@@Emkamo-r1c The Christian god was borrowed from Judaism. Originally the Israelites worshipped many gods, Yahweh, a storm and war god, was just one alongside Baal, Asherah, El, and others. Over time El and Yahweh became fused into a single god and the others were gradually discarded.
Christianity we know today is a man made religion containing elements of Sol Invictus, the Roman sun god, pagan gods, and older esoteric beliefs. The final touches to it were established at the Council of Nicea in 325 CE under Constantine. Because it was a mixture of earlier beliefs it was given the name Catholic, (derived via Late Latin catholicus, from the ancient Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos) 'universal') comes from the Greek phrase καθόλου (katholou) 'on the whole, according to the whole, in general'.
In other words a religion suitable for everyone because it contained elements of all other beliefs in the area.
My question in relation to purpose to christians is this (without trying to sound to condescending):
"Why should I do(or strive for) what God tells me to?"
If it is because God knows what is best for me, why should I do what is best for me?
That last question is a secular philosophical proposition, unless you answer it with: "Because God says so". In which case we get back to question 1 and we are stuck in a logical circle.
If I had heard this when I was 8, when it would have landed in my brain and then again from ages 12 to 25, my life choices and thoughts would have provided a much healthier life. I am going to keep this podcast and share it with my daughter. I am asking she share it with her children. My precious grandchildren. What person does not need to hear and receive this message!
These are life affirming, life giving, life altering, Words of Life.
Better late than never. Did not spend too much time on regret. The penitent thief is in paradise, and he was as late as you can get
1100% true but maybe the christian god is just a stupid construct of humans and have nothing to do with the real "god" and the real purpose and you are just living your life thinking you have a real purpose when it has been fake all along
Words of life? What words, the words that you're god's slave and your life is not yours but god's? How are those "life affirming" or "life giving"?
They're nothing but delusions keeping people from being happy with their own selves.
"What person does not need to hear and receive this message!"
Anyone who isn't old enough to have developed proper critical thinking skills so as to avoid indoctrinating them into a system of faith.
After all, we're told all the time that 'indoctrination is wrong,' and yet far too many 'religious' folks seem *very* keen to spread this message to children before they're old enough to really understand what they're being told.
Purpose... a _"deep"_ question that most don't stop to ask "What the hell am I even talking about? What does this nonsense even mean? And even if it means anything, does it matter for squat?"
In fairness, I think this was a sincere attempt to dig into this at least a little bit in this video - but it was still very superficial, despite being more than most who attempt to offer up "purpose" as if they were actually saying something. Suppose for a moment you believe that the cosmic woo-woo transcendental "purpose" of your existence is to sing hymns in praises of God (talk about a narcissist)... but that you're Kevin Bacon in _Footloose_ at heart, and so you say _"That might be why He thinks I'm here, but man... I'm just here to dance!"_
Yeah want to be a slave to the invisible pink unicorn that is one unicorn and also three unicorn. The main story is that the invisible pink unicorn created a rule to be able to torture all humans forever, and then created a loophole in the torture rule by sacrifice himself to himself, but changed his mind after a bad weekend, but let the loop-hole persist as long as you believe in the invisible pink unicorn. And I get my moral from the invisible pink unicorn. Sounds legit.
ECCLESIASTES 12:13 KJV "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."
As an agnostic, I think religion is very important to the psychological well-being of humans. As such, it has served a very important social and psychological purpose. Cognitive biases and psychological mechanisms are not inherently negative, they help people navigate the complexity of the world and protect their mental well-being. Having said that, it's important to understand some of the psychological concepts behind biases.
Beliefs that offer comfort are often related to cognitive biases, which are systematic patterns of deviation from norm or rationality in judgment, whereby inferences about other people and situations may be drawn in an illogical fashion. These biases are often a result of the brain's attempt to simplify information processing.
One such bias is confirmation bias, which is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses. This bias can lead people to believe in things that offer them comfort because they are more likely to accept information that confirms their existing beliefs and reject information that contradicts them.
Another bias that can contribute to belief in comforting ideas is the sunk cost fallacy, which is the tendency to continue investing in something because of the resources (time, money, effort) that have already been invested, regardless of the current or future potential return. This can lead people to persist in their beliefs even in the face of evidence to the contrary because they don't want to believe that they have wasted their time or resources.
Additionally, belief in comforting ideas can be related to the concept of psychological immune system, which refers to the cognitive and emotional processes that allow people to maintain positive self-regard in the face of negative events. These processes can lead people to perceive negative events as less threatening and to find ways to make meaning out of them.
Another psychological factor that can contribute to belief in comforting ideas is the need for certainty and closure. As a side note, Those with a rigid attachment to certainty seem to prefer presuppositionalism over other forms of apologetics. This is because uncertainty and ambiguity can be uncomfortable and stressful, leading people to prefer ideas that offer a clear and simple explanation of the world.
Social influence is also an important factor in shaping beliefs. People often conform to the beliefs and opinions of those around them as a way to fit in and gain acceptance. This can lead people to adopt beliefs that offer them comfort, even if they may not be entirely rational or based on evidence, because it allows them to align themselves with a group or community.
Additionally, people may also hold beliefs that offer them comfort as a way to cope with difficult emotions such as fear, anxiety, or grief. These beliefs can serve as a form of psychological defense mechanism, allowing individuals to distance themselves from unpleasant emotions and feel a sense of control and empowerment.
Finally, it is important to note that beliefs that offer comfort can also be related to specific cultural, religious, or political ideologies. These beliefs may provide individuals with a sense of identity, community, and purpose, as well as a framework for understanding the world.
You may argue that these concepts don't apply to religion but they've been well documented by those that are much smarter than me. Mike is very smart but he's certaily not immune to biases.
religion is the greatest evil to come into existence on our world
@@くまかい-q7k not at all. And I'm no fan of religion. There are certainly some bad aspects to religion but one reason it's been around so long and is also so widespread through cultures, is because it has helped humans survive. If I could push a button and eliminate religion, I wouldn't do it for the same reason that Nietzsche was scared for society when he said, "God is dead." Even Nietzsche didn't want to see religion disappear.
Everybody creates their own story to justify their existence. However, this story is so simple-minded and divorced from reality.
What atheism lacks is Winger's poorly constructed fabrications.
Sorry fella but seems to me you after using a inanimate hammer as an example to compare a conscious beings journey through life, that you can not wrap your head around the fact that we all make our own purpose, we all make own own choices. And in this reality everything's happens , because of interactions between inanimate objects, nature, and conscious beings and the action we do it's and it's all coincidence. I've worked out puvitol points in my own life where ifj had done something different or waited 1 more minute to do something then that point in time and space would have led to my kids not being born nor my grandchildren. I can map nearly every important thing in my life and it's like a tree of junctions. We all make choices. And those choices have outcomes but for purpose it's overall natural, our base is to procreate, but as we have a medium of control of what we do l. We make goals to ACHEIVE in our lives we make our own purpose. I'm at peace with this. But it seems to scare alot of Christians and religeous people in general that and the thought of not being a special pet of some sky daddy/mummy it's like they can not cope with taking responsibility for their actions they need someone or something to forgive them for the bad things they do and someone to blame for the bad things in the world aswell as ask their sky daddy to do this for them help them do that. When it's them who eventually will achieve what they set out to do. And that on top of the fear of death and that being lights out scares them in to submission. I'd rather live my life free and as a good person which I am e.g when I am helping someone I do it to lead by example not like religeous people to avoid being tortured eternally or for the favour and reward of ever lasting paradise, making the religeous self centered and not truly kind they are doing it in exchange for something, their kindness has a price.......
This couldn't be more false.
Many philosophers and thinkers throughout history have advocated for a secular, non-religious understanding of life's meaning and purpose.
One popular philosophical argument is that meaning and purpose can be found in the pursuit of personal goals, interests, and values. People can create their own purpose in life by setting goals and working towards them, and can find meaning in their relationships, achievements, and contributions to society. In this view, meaning and purpose are not seen as fixed or determined by an outside force, but as something that can be created and cultivated by individuals.
Another argument is that meaning and purpose can be found in the interconnectedness of all things, and in the recognition of our place in the larger natural and social world. In this view, the meaning of life is seen as emerging from our relationships and connections with others, with the environment, and with the universe itself.
Some existentialist philosophers argue that meaning and purpose are not inherent in the world, and that individuals must create their own meaning in the face of an inherently meaningless world. They believe that it is up to each person to find their own unique path and to create their own meaning, despite the lack of any external, objective source of meaning.
These are just a few examples of philosophical arguments for a meaning of life without God, and there are many other perspectives and arguments to consider as well.
Also, this whole speaking to things like you 100% for sure know all of what you believe in to be fact is the most arrogant and fallacious concept I have ever heard.
So if I agree with everything you have said, is it necessary to believe the stories of the bible as literal, historical truth rather than just believing the bible as a set of stories that provide spiritual truth? And why would it be one or the other?
The measure of humankind is humankind. Humankind is also the source of morality, ethics, and good sense. We don't need dodgy supernatural sources for such things. And "transcendence" is another word for "hallucination," which is not necessarily a bad thing, but is also an entirely natural phenomenon.
I have thought about purpose, the idea, for some time. I have come to the conclusion that purpose and value are two sides of the same coin. Whatever has purpose has intrinsic value, because of its purpose. Human life has value, which is why something like murder is unacceptable. If human life has value, and if value and purpose are the two sides of the same coin, then human life must have purpose, irrespective of whether we know it or understand it.
_If human life has value_
"Value" doesn't exist on its own. It has to be value _to_ someone (or to people in general, of course).
And things can have "value" to us without having a particular "purpose." I own things which have value to _me_ - sentimental value - but have no purpose and would have value to no one else.
But the big thing you seem to miss here is that people aren't things. People aren't tools. People aren't property. Even if there _is_ a god who values people - and the evidence certainly doesn't seem to back that up! - it would just be that god's own subjective valuation.
@@Bill_Garthright Hi Bill, thanks for your reply. You're right in saying people aren't tools or property or a thing but you don't need to be a tool or property or a thing to be valuable. For example you are not a thing or a tool or a property but you are valuable. If, for example, I weren't valuable then it would be perfectly fine to do anything with me/to me, for instance murder. But it is not.
@@VlenceLeuth
_You're right in saying people aren't tools or property or a thing but you don't need to be a tool or property or a thing to be valuable._
True. So what? I never said - or even implied - otherwise.
_you are valuable_
To whom? Again, "value" doesn't exist on its own.
Yes, I'm valuable to _me._ I'm valuable to my friends and family. And lots of people - _most_ people, I suspect - think that I'm valuable as a human being or even just as a sentient living being.
We tend to value our friends and family more than we value strangers, of course. That's just natural. And we probably don't value a murderer very much - unless maybe that murderer is a member of the family. It's all subjective, after all.
But value doesn't exist _on its own._ Something or someone doesn't just have value. It has to be value _to_ an individual or a group, even if that's just implied. And none of that has anything to do with "purpose," as far as I can tell.
_If, for example, I weren't valuable then it would be perfectly fine to do anything with me/to me, for instance murder. But it is not._
Well, murder is _defined_ as unlawful killing. So "murder" would be wrong, regardless. And "killing" wouldn't necessarily be wrong whether you have value or not. There are lots of cases where killing would be the right thing to do (to save someone else from being murdered, for example).
But yes, in modern civilized societies, we think of all human beings as having value. We _human beings_ think of other human beings as having value (and many other animals, too, of course).
But that hasn't always been true. Christians eagerly killed non-Christians - and even Christians of some other denomination - for centuries. Muslims still murder atheists. Black people were routinely murdered through much of American history. As slaves - as _property_ - they had some value. But not once they were free, not to many white people.
Of course, they still had value to _themselves._ They had value to their friends and family. Again, "value" is subjective. That's just the way it is.
I think we _should_ find other people - of every race, ethnicity, and religion - valuable, of course. So I have no real objection when politicians or religious leaders talk about "intrinsic value." But it's not actually true. Value doesn't just... exist. You need someone to do the valuing.
How does that compare to say Pagan religions that do not deny the existence of deities? Many of those religions have expressed moral codes and thus provide also purpose to one's life?
Mike, do you profit off of spreading the Christian word? Before spreading more BS, you should provide empirical evidence that any gods exist.
Humans were created by a god with the primary purpose of loving, glorifying and worshipping that god in perpetuity? Sounds like a pretty narcissistic god to me!
I think it’s sad that Christians think they have to be told how to live and what their purpose is. You have the power to choose what your life should be. There are people who may choose to live a life that causes harm or makes others life worse, however there choices can have consequences.
9:40..God made us for relationship with Him, with each other and with His creation. SIN breaks that relationship. Jesus takes on our death sentence and pays for our debt with His life. If we trust Christ for this payment of our debt then we can be brought back into our originally intended relationship with God, other men and creation.
And then, being the living Word of God, Christ teaches us how to live with purpose and in correct relationship with each other and our creator God. We are taught by Christ's life teachings and a whole library of books called the Bible.
I am so grateful that God sent us His son, Jesus, and His Word
Life actually HAD meaning the moment I I left Christianity. It was no longer a place where I simply wiped me feet briefly before being poofed to a magic imaginary happy land. 🙄
Without a god, life actually HAS purpose. ❤😄
How long ago did you decide to leave the faith? I’d love to hear more about your story
@@mlynnekeeney4324 not him but as another person who left the faith I want to mention to you all that a lot of us don't have some story about god failing us. For me I just slowly realized that every religion on Earth have people who claim to feel the presence of their god, and they all use very similar descriptions (same as Near Death Experiences), that the leaders of the various Christian groups did not show the teaching of Christ, that in fact a large majority of Christians I met are only friendly to those who fit into their click and if someone challenges them by being lgbt, athiest, another religion, or a race not commonly seen in the area they tend to treat the person with suspicion and distrust if not outright hostility, and then looking for comfort and understanding I read the bible closer and prayed for understanding and found my faith completely gone though it took until a few years of living on my own to realize that I don't miss going to church or praying and in fact nothing in my life changed and went from thinking I believe in God but not the one Christians praise to realizing I'm fully agnostic.
Though keep in mind I never believed anything about young earth or that the bible was a literal document. If I had I probably would only have stayed in the faith if all actual knowledge was kept from me.
welcome to the "dark" side :D
@@lyricduo Such as? Somebody else in this comment section once said that you basically have to make up your purpose without God.
You're pretending your own purpose. We are all making it up as we go. Some seem to need to pretend that we aren't. It's to your detriment that you can't decide for yourself. Self chosen purpose is a sign of character.
In short: you too made up *your* purpose because you are not satisfied with the one you yourself talk about despite suggesting that religion provides one . So where is the difference? One god less.
Mike, I don't know how old you are, but I've been an atheist for about twice as long as I guess that you've been alive. I don't know who you've been talking to, but your description of devastated atheists is laughable.
Mike does a fantastic job of having bad faith arguments for atheism :)
The biggest problem with Christians and Atheists is that Christians think like theologians from the middle ages and atheists think like post-modern people (which is not better by any means), both trapped in different times. So, when you know history, all christian arguments start to make sense but most Atheist don't care about history and most Christians don't seem to care about finding a way to explain these arguments correctly. So we're trapped in endless internet arguments where no one even understands what the other is trying to say.
I am an atheist and have since I was old enough to consider the question, nearly seventy years now. I am not an atheist because I wish to sin, or because I hate god. I simply believe that there are no gods, although that is a belief that I hold somewhat gingerly. I realize that there might well be a god, but think that best arguments - Occam's Razor principally - lead me to the tentative conclusion that there are none. More pertinently, with respect to this video, I believe that any distanced, rational, cold analysis of Christian theism shows unequivocally that it is nonsense. I think the same is true of all man-made religions, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, etc. And I am not tentative in this belief. I have asked Christians on a number of occasions what meaning or purpose they think their religion gives them that I as an atheist do not and can not have? With that question in mind, I watched this video with careful attention, and came away fairly disappointed. I have seen some videos with Pastor Winger before, and I don't doubt his sincerity. He's not some schlock apologist along the lines of Ray Comfort or Todd Friel. He is educated, serious and trying to convey the message he believes to be true, which frankly makes this video even more pathetic. The best he can do to explain man's purpose in life is to say that first and foremost we should love god (obviously the Christian triune god, a concept which to anyone but a Christian makes absolutely no sense whatsoever), and secondly, we should love others as yourself. A junior high student could have come up with something as useful as these thoughts. Frankly, Pastor Mike should take that guitar off the wall and do a couple of minutes of the old Beatle's song, All You Need is Love -
All you need is love
All you need is love
All you need is love, love
Love is all you need.
Pastor Mike's message is just about as shallow and trite. All societies have some sort of adage about loving one's fellow as oneself, which I agree is a very good thing to do, but the thought is scarcely unique to Christianity, and it hardly seems to be a fulfilling purpose, an end-all and be-all. Not like seeking wisdom, or working to cure cancer. And it's really not clear to me how loving an omnipotent and omniscient deity will give someone purpose and meaning. He certainly doesn't need our love, being omnipotent and all, so what's the point? So Pastor Mike thinks that loving god is the transcendental purpose and meaning of human existence. To me it seems about as fulfilling as brushing my teeth. Less so, to be honest. At least I know my teeth will be clean afterwards.
I do not want to argue with you with Knowledge, as you seem knowledgeable in many things. So take my response as my experience that responds to your questions.
from reading everything you wrote I can tell you strive to be intellectually honest which is why i will respond. This teaching that mike shared with us from the bible, is definitely a very simple one ( love God above all else and love your neighbor as you love yourself ) and I am extremely thankful that it is. That as a Christian I don’t have to work extremely hard to understand my purpose. God has already told me it. I don’t understand why you need it to be more complex?
I loved your question as to why is that our purpose if God doesn’t need our love if he’s omnipotent. That is exactly correct, God is perfect within his triune self. So why then? The answer is, he made that our purpose for our own good. You see God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in him. Thats how good my God is. That he made us to be satisfied in him. Knowing God, getting to spend time with him has been the most rewarding thing i have experienced in my life. And the fact that i know when I go to glory i will just get to go deeper and deeper in satisfaction in him is even more mind boggling to me. I have lived for many things for money, for plenty of sex. For MYSELF. And none of that has brought me this peace that surpasses all understanding like knowing God and loving him. So again thats why i am thankful that it is simple. Because we as sinful creatures often loose or focus with everything going on around us of God. And we will ultimately all fail at doing this purpose perfectly. So it’s simple but indeed difficult but it brings all the satisfaction for me as a believer in Jesus christ that I could ask for.
Look I See that your honestly and passionately seeking an answer, you are trying to make sense of it all. I just ask that you acknowledge that you are limited by your personal experience and knowledge and that just because you haven’t made sense of it doesn’t mean others haven’t. I live for the same reason, thousands of saints were killed for living when they had nothing to gain in return other then a deep loving relationship with God. The happiest people I have met live for the same reason.
Either way man hope you find truth, because it is the best truth I have ever experienced. And it will actually go with me after death and not just vanish in a grave with my body.
I think Agape love (which is about being selfless, not reliant on feelings, and what defines most charities) is the love that fits with what you're saying and the biblical definition. I think our culture gets caught up in Eros love (which is about feelings, romantic, sexual, and intense desire) and pushes that instead.
Neo-platonic. People don’t know where the idea of soul mates comes from. They assume it is a universal truth. The power of myth.
@@GracieDontPlayDat Where does it come from?
h100% true but maybe the christian god is just a stupid construct of humans and have nothing to do with the real "god" and the real purpose and you are just living your life thinking you have a real purpose when it has been fake all along
@@CLDJ227 from the same idiotic place as the idea of a soul. people don't conflate eros and agape, why do you think it is one or the other? two different things.
Even "Agape love" is reliant on feelings. Doing something considered "selfless" is not devoid of feelings, in fact it's done BECAUSE of feelings.
First, the broad brush of "This is everyone's purpose" is just stupid when you consider the variety of humans and their experiences. Purpose doesn't sprinkle down like glitter, falling on one and all. We CREATE our purpose in life around around values and our life experience. You Christians are amazing. When YOU get called out for, I dunno, legislative overreach, social hegemony, or just being willfully blind to reason, you get all upset. But yet, you can stand here, MIKE, and attribute people who do not believe in your "god" as without anything of any value and that's just fine. And no, not "many atheists" come to that same conclusion. WE go to the trouble to think about and consider what we value and what we can do that makes our lives meaningful JUST LIKE every other thinking person does. If it gives you meaning to bow and scrape at a demonstrably immoral god, then have at it. BE the best at it. But don't think you can just blithely discount the rest of humanity because we simply don't agree and have other motivations. This type of thinking says FAR MORE about you than it does anyone else.
As a person who is a Christian but remembers a time when I was not, I cannot fathom having no objective purpose in this life. There have been so many times when my faith in my career, my talents, my health, or my relationships were shaken. My personal thoughts and feelings have led me down wrong paths and have hurt others so often. If I depended on my feelings to gauge my purpose, I would be a much lonelier and angrier person than I am now. I'm not even sure if I would still be alive. It is only because there is a sovereign and righteous God that I am able to be led onto a better path.
What purpose do you believe your life has that wouldn't be better served by ending it?
steve, you still don't have an objective purpose. making up crap is nit the same as objective purpose. it appears your actual purpose is to spread your stupidity.
Sorry, but reading this leads me to believe you only became religious to escape from things that were bothering you instead of facing them. If you know your thoughts and feelings were taking you to bad places then think on them more and try to come up with a solution. Don't run to a book that says nice things(even though it's a horror book if you read it).
It takes a while, if you were raised with religion, to accept the simple fact that when you die its just a dirt nap. But it makes LIVING life so much easier knowing you only have to prove yourself... to yourself. Everything becomes less complicated and much more clear. It's like cleaning up all the temp/junk files on your hard drive.
The purpose of life is to rock out and have lots of sex.
_I believe the purpose of our lives for all people..._
You never finished that sentence.
Admittedly, it doesn't matter to me _what_ you believe, as long as you have no good reason for believing it.
_There's no way to measure whether that's your _*_real_*_ purpose, like your created purpose, or not._
Do you have *one piece of good evidence* that you _were_ created by a magical being for a purpose? Just *one,* please, but specific enough and in enough detail that I can judge it for myself. And if you _were,_ what difference would that make?
If you were created by your parents so they'd have a ready supply of organs if they needed a transplant, is that your "purpose" now? When your parents die, do you have no more "purpose" then? I'm sorry, but that's just silly.
Suppose you _were_ created by an invisible, immaterial, magical being to be his slave after you die, so he'd have someone to sing his praises forever and ever,... how is that a _good_ thing to you? You sound like you _want_ to be the property of someone else. Why is that such a desperate desire for you?
_If I make a hammer_
Human beings aren't hammers. _People_ aren't tools. _People_ aren't property.
Besides, you're wrong about that, anyway. You can use a rock as a hammer. I have. It wasn't a very _good_ hammer, but it got the job done. And that was its "purpose" for me. I didn't have to "create" the rock.
I don't have to create hammers either, though we know that hammers are made by human beings. However, if you use a hammer as a paperweight - it works pretty well for that purpose - then _that's_ its purpose for you.
Of course, the big thing you miss is that neither rocks nor hammers are _people._ And that people aren't property!
_I enjoy frolicking among the bananas_
Ah, yes, "the atheist's nightmare," the banana. Heh, heh. You and Ray Comfort, huh?
_Nor can you weigh the goodness or badness of that purpose very easily_
Not true. That's not even _close_ to being true. If you wish to use an object as a hammer, then it's quite easy to tell if the object is going to be good for that purpose or bad for that purpose. If nothing else, just try it.
And it's similar if you give _yourself_ a purpose, too, although you must first decide on your goal. Note that human beings can often agree on goals - most of us, at least - and we can judge how "good" or "bad" something might be when it comes to attaining a shared goal. Come on! This isn't rocket science. This should be _easy_ for you to understand.
_The purposelessness of life without God is a pretty psychologically daunting thing to consider_
Nope. Well, maybe if you've been indoctrinated into this nonsense since you were a baby, I don't know. I was raised Christian, but it wasn't _this_ silly.
If you really, really want a "purpose," then it's easy enough to decide that for yourself. I don't find the lack of a magical "purpose," imposed by some invisible deity which may or may not exist, to be daunting _at all._ And I can't really imagine why _you_ would.
_without God there is no... moral values_
And that's even _sillier._ Have you never even _met_ an atheist? Apparently, you've never actually talked with one of us, huh?
_we'll just lie to ourselves and say we have purpose_
I have absolutely no idea why you _want_ to be a tool, a piece of property designed for a purpose by someone else. That just blows my mind! *Why?*
Of course, it doesn't really matter, anyway. Just because you really, really _want_ to have a magical purpose, that doesn't mean you do. Just because you really, really _want_ your god to exist in reality, that doesn't mean he does. All you're doing here is explaining your wishful-thinking.
_I do think that those who try to say that there is true and genuine, like, transcendent ultimate purpose and meaning and values without God, I think they're incorrect_
If I understand you correctly, I agree with you. (Yeah, I was shocked by that, too! Heh, heh.) But I don't think it makes any difference _with_ a god.
If your god made you for a particular purpose, that's _his_ purpose. It's no different from if your parents had you for a particular purpose. I'd say it's silly to _want_ that. And there's nothing "transcendent" (except in the meaning "of a god," of course) or "ultimate" about it.
And just because your _god_ does or doesn't think you have "meaning" or "value," so what? How could his subjective opinion of "meaning" and "value" be considered "ultimate"? I mean, even if there _was_ a good reason to think that he wasn't simply imaginary?
_So the question we have is, "With God in the picture, what is our purpose?"_
No, that's not the question. The question _should_ be, "Do we have any good evidence that 'God' is actually real, rather than just imaginary?" And so far, from what I've heard from theists throughout my life, the answer to that question is "No," isn't it?
If you disagree with that, then let's hear... _something_ specific. How about *one piece of good evidence, specific enough and in enough detail that I can judge it for myself,* that your god is real, rather than just imaginary? Just *one* shouldn't be too much to ask, should it? But it always is.
Atheism shouldn’t even be talking about meaning. If the universe is inherently meaningless and obviously humans can’t create or imagine something that doesn’t already exist in some form (even the nonexistent things we imagine are just recombinations of parts of reality), then where in the world are we getting the mere IDEA of meaning from? And why is it so necessary for humans to create meaning if by atheistic standards, there is no real meaning anywhere and it therefore should have no bearing on our wellbeing or survival? Why are humans magically creating the idea of meaning and needing meaning if there is apparently nothing in the universe to provide a basis for needing it in the first place? It’s like saying water and other liquids don’t exist but then being thirsty. How do you get to the idea of water to quench thirst if water never existed??
Atheism is only about the claim that a god or gods exist. It’s not about meaning. Atheists are not convinced that theists have met their burden of proof.That’s it. Everything else is a straw man.
What do you mean by atheistic standards?
So why do you get to decide that the purpose for your life is following god, but atheists don't get to decide on the purpose for their lives?
Why haven't you answered my question?
William Lane Craig wrote quite the essay on this called "The absurdity of life without God."
Ultimately, it does seem that from the atheist perspective, life has no true meaning. It somehow came out of nothing as Dr Richard Dawkins once said, and has no intent. That's one of the plethora of reasons I find atheism utterly uncompelling.
Then provide testable, repeatable, demonstrable knowledge of your God and atheism would no longer be a thing.
@@riverofthewood why does the truth even matter in the Atheist worldview? If the truth is that the universe is uncaring about my life, shouldn’t I believe in whatever gives this life most joy over what is truthful?
@@riverofthewood Yes mate, I've heard all these atheist sob stories all the time & ad hominem attacks before - "I was lied to" - "your own ego fragility" - That's childish, get over it.
The universe isn't sentient, obviously it doesn't care about you - Absolutely nothing to do with God.
Can you accept the universe, which your chief apostle said came into existence out of nothing, without an atom of evidence, and is ordained specific way, wasn't created by something? No creator? If so, what evidence do you have?
That takes a lot of faith I simply lack. Be glad that God does exist, senor.
@@horridhenry9920 Not quite: That's the argument from disbelief fallacy, that the presence of sincere non-believers prove God cannot truly exist.
It's a logical fallacy for a reason, as humans can have all the proof in the world & they would still fall into the category of the book of Romans:
**The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.*
*“For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.*
*“Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshipped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised. Amen.”*
- Romans 1:18-25 (emphasis added)
The Bible itself mentions atheism in Psalm 14:1, it's always going to exist purely out of an inability to recognise the creations of a creator.
I believe in God for a wide variety of reasons; Archeology, theology, mathematics, prophecy, rationalism, physics - And perhaps most of all, how it uniquely tackles the nature of human beings that are deeply without purpose & in need of a true standard.
Unless atheism can prove to me that the universe was created from nothing, that biblical archeology means nothing, that there is no inspired prophecy in the Bible, and so on & so forth, I lack the faith to be an atheist.
@@riverofthewood by your own admission, ‘truth’ is important to you because it helps you navigate life. If religion helped people navigate life, it would be just as valuable as the truth. I don’t see any reason why truth has any inherent value in an atheist worldview
I teach public high school and wandered past a teacher and student having this EXACT conversation the other day. The student was concluding that we are random and have no purpose. The teacher argued that our relationships have purpose. Of course, being in a public high school limits how we can say things, but it is interesting (and encouraging) to see young people taking on tough questions and thinking them through!
,100% true but maybe the christian god is just a stupid construct of humans and have nothing to do with the real "god" and the real purpose and you are just living your life thinking you have a real purpose when it has been fake all along
I'm going to doubt this since nobody, atheist or otherwise, thinks we have no purpose at all. If it is true, then do stop eavesdropping on conversations.
@@Syrph. I just enjoy teasing gullible people :)
@Syrph 1.) I stopped and contributed to the conversation...didn't creepily eavesdrop. 2.) Feel free to doubt it happened. It DID happen but if you don't believe me, nothing else I say will convince you. 3.) Not sure any of the people involved were atheists. Just having a conversation about whether being random beings deprived us of meaning.
When I was Christian, I struggled with this. I wished for death so I could just get to Heaven already. I didn’t see the purpose to life because doesn’t God know where I will end up for eternity? And we were always told that “life is just a blip in the eye of eternity” to encourage us to stay on the Christian path. So life is this tiny piece of existence that defines where I go (Heaven or Hell), but God already knows this so…why not just create us in Heaven or Hell? Or just not create a Hell at all? Why make us suffer through life? What is the purpose if life is just a test and God already knows the test results?
Thats one of my biggest issues with christianity and why i became an atheist
@@linuxramblingproductions8554 It wasn't why I became atheist, since I trusted "God works in mysterious ways." It was when I studied the Bible that I had to leave Christianity.
When I was an an atheist there was no purpose to life.
When pushed for a purpose I would subscribe to a purpose for life as 'survival'.
My purpose was ultimately all selfishly driven when I didn’t believe. It was a very sad way to live.
Well I am an atheist, and my purpose is self determined. I’ve made the decision to make my life about my family, my beautiful daughter, being a good husband, working hard to build a better life for said family, etc.
All of which are things you likely consider your “purpose” as well. There’s literally nothing different between us, an atheist and a theist, in that regard.
This certainly isn’t a sad life I live lol. I love my life.
@@DM-dk7js problem with having your family and wife as a purpose is that you can lose them. One day you could lose them in a car crash (God forbid it happens). And then what? Make another family? Make your job your purpose? Or finding an altruistic mission like saving the whales in Japan or feeding the poor? What happens when you lose all of that?
I'm not saying those things you list are not important, just ask yourself: why only stay with just a tiny portion of reality, instead of seeing the bigger picture to find the ultimate purpose above having a family and loving them? Why? Pride, maybe?
@@DM-dk7js Yes I can relate to all that.
As an atheist my life purpose was driven for my happiness.
There was no God, so I decided to live a life seeking after my happiness for as long as I could and then cease to exist eternally.
@@joseandres7075 oh because there is no evidence for this bigger picture you speak of.
So like I said, we’re not that different. We share the same basic values, and it definitely wasn’t something as mundane as “survival” lol.
Haven’t even watched it yet but I know this will help with topics brought up in my philosophy class. Thanks Pastor Mike! Appreciate your ministry!
a100% true but maybe the christian god is just a stupid construct of humans and have nothing to do with the real "god" and the real purpose and you are just living your life thinking you have a real purpose when it has been fake all along
I recommend listening to atheists about the topic, too. There are many assumptions in the video, such as the proposal to measure purpose against some unknown measuring stick…he just makes it up.
When I was Christian, I struggled with this. I wished for death so I could just get to Heaven already. I didn’t see the purpose to life because doesn’t God know where I will end up for eternity? And we were always told that “life is just a blip in the eye of eternity” to encourage us to stay on the Christian path. So life is this tiny piece of existence that defines where I go (Heaven or Hell), but God already knows this so…why not just create us in Heaven or Hell? Or just not create a Hell at all? Why make us suffer through life? What is the purpose if life is just a test and God already knows the test results?
@@MsLemon42 exactly my thought process. I simply don't understand how people never realise this.
@@Sednas It caused me a lot of mental anguish in those times.
@Ms Lemon To be fair Mike Winger isn't a philosopher, so a lot of your questions I think would be better to see a christian philosopher tackle.
“The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.”
-Ecclesiastes 12:13
There is a clear verse that answers what our purpose is.
"And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment."
-1 John 3:23
Ah yes, fear. Precisely what a perfect being has to use instead of a peaceful method. Guess he’s not so perfect .p.
Nothing has inherent purpose. Nothing has inherent meaning. Morality, beauty and value are always subjective and relative. Your beliefs and "intuitions" do not matter _at all._ Your beliefs and " intuitions" cannot alter facts. That is why they are facts.
And personally, I think the way things are is the best possible way. How sad would our existence be, how pitiful and degrading, if we had an inherent purpose and meaning to our existence to glorify and work as a slave for some being. Like, that is just terrible! Being created solely to be slaves to some being who literally has no use for slaves whatsoever?! What a horror show!
So, I am glad we don't have any such thing. I am glad we get to decide our own meaning and "destiny" (operating under the assumption that free will is an actual thing, which it very well might not be). I am glad we are not a collective hive mind, with everyone agreeing about everything and having no individual thoughts or opinions or values.
The Christian worldview sounds horrifying.
As an addendum, videos like this tell me, in no uncertain terms, that i should be _very_ afraid of Christians.
It is beliefs like this that get people to do terrible, horrible things. If you tell someone they have a divine purpose and God wants them to do something... if they believe you, they will do _anything._
Like putting people into camps and giving them... "friendly little showers" they never walk out of.
How beautiful life is that we DO have purpose! I feel quite the opposite about the Christian worldview.
We are not slaves! In fact, we have free will to NOT worship God! That is what Hell is, it is leaving the presence of God. At the end of your life, when you have died, your denial of God or acceptance of Him will determine your eternity.
If you deny Him? You don't have to be with Him! If you accept Him, you get to be with Him!
Granted, one option is far, far better (being with Him), but you still have a choice!
As well, I agree with your statement about fact. Fact is truth, and there is always objective truth!
Do we know the truth, though? In the situation of God?
You know as well as I do, and the evidence, I feel, shows that there is indeed a God!
Provide evidence ANYTHING you said in regards to your deity holds true.
🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗
I love the video and the message however i think the title is a little misleading. I think something like "what is life's purpose to Christians" would be a better title so that it can more easily reach the people that are looking for a message like this one.
What is the transcendent purpose of a mosquito?
What is the purpose of Onchocerca volvulus?
@@freddan6fly Great question! Anyone can clearly see (wait, is that a pun?) that, like the rest of creation, it was created for God's glory and pleasure.
@@tdhoward Yeah, I have seen films about the disease (River Blindness), and it is really gruesome. A gift from the 'loving god'.
According to the Westminister Confession of 1647, the Westminister Shorter Catechism Q.1 What is the chief end (purpose) of man? A. Man's chief end is to glorify God (a) and enjoy Him forever (b). (a) Psa.86:9; Isa:60:21; Rom.11:36; 1Cor.6:20; 10:31; Rev:4:11. (b) Psa.16:5-11; 144:15; Isa.12:2; Luke 2:10; Phil.4:4; Rev.21:3-4.
I’m an atheist and let me tell you, my life has purpose, meaning, value, morality, and beauty. I don’t need to have any type of belief in the supernatural to give my life meaning. I have plenty of reasons to wake up every morning; Friends, family, books, music, movies, learning about science and how the world works, est. Life is not meaningless to this atheist!!
But why do those things have purpose? Why are those things meaningful? What’s meaningful about family? Because it makes you feel good? Because it makes you feel like you’re doing the right thing? Those things do have meaning and purpose, but where does that purpose come from? You’re pulling meaning and purpose from know where with no explanation. You’re making a claim about purpose without reasoning how those things how purpose and for what reason. I pray that the Lord guides you into his arms of love and that you seek Jesus as your savior since he died for your sins to bring you to the Father. God Bless you.
@@palmerelliott2770 My reasons to wake up in the morning are enough as they are. I don’t need some greater purpose, and i SURE don’t need some kind of savior.
@@metaldave08096 but that's not reasoned purpose, so it's not justified
@@bearrrmann I don’t need any justification, and certainly not to you. My life has purpose just as it is.
@@metaldave08096 but without justification, it is nonsensical purpose, therefore it is nonexistent
If you already acknowledge the fact we can have self determined purpose, what's the need for a transcendant purpose?
I'll even add, what's the point of having free will if we already have a imposed ( what you call transcendant ) purpose?
Because unlike humans, a hammer doesn't have free will.
Atheists have to have A LOT more faith in what they believe.. 💯
It takes more faith to not believe in an invisible magic sky fairy than it takes to believe in him? Seems legit.
"It Takes More Faith to be an Atheist"
In the same way that it takes more faith to not believe leprechauns exist.
@Apsoy Pike True. Not a bad thing. Atheists routinely make overwhelmingly sweeping statements though..
@@ObsessedStephenKingFanatic1974 yes.
@@ObsessedStephenKingFanatic1974 Atheists believe in far more miracles than Christians. The religion of atheism calls for outstanding faith.
When I am asked what the purpose of life is by a non believer, I tell them the purpose of this life is to decide where you will spend eternity.
What was the purpose of those whose star died by a supernova?
And that would merely be your opinion.
_I tell them the purpose of this life is to decide where you will spend eternity._
And what makes you think that's a decision you can actually _make?_
I want to thank every saint who has prayed for me since my comment on Mike’s channel. I have had huge breakthrough and am on fire for the Lord!
u100% true but maybe the christian god is just a stupid construct of humans and have nothing to do with the real "god" and the real purpose and you are just living your life thinking you have a real purpose when it has been fake all along
God bless you 🙏 😎.
Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter : Fear God and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Love this!
I've always found the classic "Glorify God..." answer unsatisfactory, and this definition seems much more in tune with the overall message of scripture.
If the purpose of humans is to have relationships, then atheists fulfill that purpose. We have relationships too. If a god wants to have a relationship with me, said god would need to show up and say so. Until one does, I can't have a relationship with someone who isn't there, now can I?
As a non-believer, I understand my purpose in life is what I make it. Punto, coma, the end.
Yeah i agree trying to create more then that is just self-deceit really if you believe in god your just abstracting it to another entity
3:08 “The chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever.”
~ Westminster Shorter Catechism, Q. 1
Of course, this isn’t a _detailed or exhaustive_ explanation of our purpose. It is a summary, much like Christ’s two great commandments - love God, and love your neighbor - are a _summary,_ not an exhaustive explanation, of the law and the prophets.
(Remember, WSC Q.1 is: “What is the _chief_ end of man.”)
Why does an invisible but omnipotent god require constant worship from his own failed experiment?
@@rf7477 Why does a material-only being, a blob of stardust-turned-protoplasm that is here today and worm-food tomorrow, even _care?_
As an atheist, I have everything to live for in this life, as this is all we get, so enjoy it. Unless you've actually been dead, you know as much as me about whether there's an afterlife.
Except your very argument falls upon the idea that there is no evidence to support Christianity which would support an afterlife. There is historical evidence to support that Jesus was real, that he claimed to be the messiah and that he resurrected. Those things being true is already good enough reason to believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God. Which would then support that there is an afterlife.
@@joshuadamaceno617 just because jesus was real doesn't mean that's proof christianity is true. You used the word 'claimed' yourself, come up with better arguments.
@@joshuadamaceno617 Your train of thoughts is ridiculous lol you still need to prove everything else individually, not just say “well Jesus existed therefore all barble is true!”
A belief in a god or gods... That's all atheism lacks
Mike…the guy utterly obliterated by Matt Dillahunty, asking & answering his own questions. Which are questions that virtually no adult on earth is asking…..
Hi, agnostic here, or atheist (depending on the purity with which you apply that definition). I had an interesting thought watching this video, which I would like to receive some feedback on from those who are more in the know. I see in 1 Corinthians 13:
"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs."
With these two lines, I wonder: Does God love us? If yes, then this line would seem to imply that he would not keep a record of wrongs. I'm interpreting this to mean he doesn't actually care about our sins. Am I misunderstanding this somehow? If not by our sins, then how would he decide who goes to heaven or hell?
Also, independent of all that, I find that this definition of love is still too vague to translate into anything actionable. Furthermore, with a single definition of love, how can it represent two different relationships (one with God, and one with self/the neighbor)?
Atheism is baseless. Many atheist admit that it has no content .So the criticism is meaningless
Atheism has infinitely more basis than religion. Religion is literally all just theory and speculation. Science explains everything.
I find it's usually an emotional rebellion to god. Either their previous experiences with theists were negative and/or they claim no one sufficiently answered their questions. But they always seem to not simply be "enlightened" but instead prejudiced against the idea of god, without actually being familiar with scripture, history or arguments in favor of.
What's remarkable is that this is also consistent with scripture, in that god would blind those who reject him and harden their hearts to his purpouse.
Well yeah, it’s not a belief system akin to theism. It is baseless. Because it makes no claims.
That’s not a problem.
@@kriegjaeger no. It’s just a rejection of a claim that hasn’t met its burden of proof. It’s that simple.
@@DM-dk7js
Proof is for math and liquor. All theories work on evidence.
When I was in high-school, I was part of a mentorship program, and I think the mission statement for the ministry sums up the purpose of life quite well, "to know God and to make Him known." The great commission is "Go and make deciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." The commission Jesus gave to the church is to spread His word to all the world, I think this, coupled with the verse pastor Mike referenced "Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength" gives a pretty good idea as to the meaning of life
And once that message is known by all, then what? Purpose done? Not a good purpose.
@@Syrph. knowing God can only be obtained by entering into a relationship with Him, walking in His ways and obeying His commandments. In the end, when we are in heaven, our satisfaction will be in the presence and knowledge of the Lord. I argue it is the greatest purpose and the original reason for man's creation.
@@ethansanders5706 That isn't a purpose at all. It's just selfishness and worshiping an egotistical god that was made up by people.
@@Syrph. what then is a good purpose for life?
@@ethansanders5706 Bettering the lives of others instead of wasting time wishing for it to happen would be a good start.
Purpose doesn't have to be transcendent, nor does it have to appointed by some deity. You view this on the opposite end of the spectrum from an Atheist. You start with the basis that God exists, has a purpose for us, and we should walk with him to discover said purpose. All things in life fall under this umbrella for a Christian. You start with God and through him, your relationships, job, hobbies, etc.. have purpose. What's interesting is that this seems much more confined and restricted than reality would attest to me. What if you enjoy something deeply but it's not god's purpose? Should you stop doing that thing? How do you know it's god's true purpose for your life? I spent over 20 years as a Christian, and at best all I could say was "I felt very deeply that god was pointing me towards this". The truth was that knowing, and not knowing what god actually wants you to do is extremely obscure. You basically just throw stuff at the wall and if it sticks, you assume god is moving you towards that and if it doesn't, he's either testing your ability to stand firm, have faith, etc.. or telling you to stop. Which by the way is also impossible to confirm. I know so many Christians, including a past version of myself, who stumble through life aimlessly seeking purpose from god and not understanding why they're so unhappy after having tried for years and years to get it right. For an Atheist, it's just the opposite. Supposing there is no god, we work in reverse. Purpose isn't found up above, but at the very ground beneath our feet. We are capable of forming bonds with one another, these relationships make us FEEL like we have purpose. Purpose for me wasn't appointed, but it WAS determined. Through chains of reactions, I now have a beautiful wife and daughter. I love them both dearly, and my relationship with them gives ME purpose. Then there's the purpose of us collectively as a species. We're here, on this blue marble and there's potential that we may be the only ones in the entire universe, or perhaps there are others. This questions gives us collectively, as a species, purpose. God is not required for life to have purpose, and subjective purpose is not a BAD thing. I stand in awe of the universe. I marvel at the things seen, and get shivers up my spine just thinking about all the mystery left out there to discover.
I guess I fail to see how subjective purpose in this way is more than lying to oneself to get feelings and shivers down the spine. It feels good, but the purpose part seems like a lie. Perhaps you have a different perspective?
@@levifox2818 hmm, I guess I don’t know what you mean by “lie” in this context. Am I lying if I say that anchovies are delicious, but you think they’re terrible? Subjectively, they ARE delicious, at least to me. Not trying to be condescending here at all, just genuinely curious what you’re referring to as “the lie” in this scenario.
@@levifox2818 Religion is the same as that subjective purpose. It seems like a lie but it makes you feel better about existence so you follow it anyways. Thats perfectly fine.
@@poke_warrior
What do you think of televangelists? I would say many of them are lying, wouldn’t you? But they’re giving people feelings and shivers as well. To me it seems like the feelings and shivers are part of a lie unless they correspond with some objective truth.
I’m not saying the feeling is fake, but to say it means something seems like a lie to me. Does that make sense?
@@levifox2818 Hmm, so I think televangelists are more malicious and greedy than your pastor down the road if you know what I mean. My grandfather was (I say was because he's retired now) a pastor and so was my uncle. I think pastors are (in general) well-intentioned and really believe the stuff they're preaching for the most part. Televangelists I think are very, very much in it for the money and are purposely dishonest in order to make a profit. That being said, I think my grandfather and my uncle also lie, however their lie isn't born out of a place of greed, but rather misplaced guidance and beliefs. I'll note that both televangelists and well-intentioned pastors like my grandfather can cause widespread damage to their listeners. The same of course can be said of nearly any teaching though, and is by no means exclusive to Christianity. Often times it depends on the listeners interpretation, or what they fixated on in the message. We seem to be focused on lies here, but the truth can also cause damage to people as well. For example, it happens that when some particular fundamentalist Christians come to the conclusion that what they have believed was a farce, they are likely to face a plethora of experiences they've had repressed their entire lives. This over-indulgence of new experiences, often accompanied with drug use for the first time, can lead people down a path that causes self-harm, and potentially (in fact likely) harm to those closest to them.
I'm still not sure exactly what it is you're getting out with the "lie" evoking an emotional response. A lie, and a truth, can evoke strong emotional responses. The response to stimuli doesn't have any affect on the stimuli causing it. I have a chemical reaction in response to some scenery in nature that my brain deems beautiful. It's subjective for me to feel this way, but that doesn't make it a lie. If I look out at that scenery and I say "this is my purpose, I'm going to make this place my home", where did I lie to myself? Now, I wouldn't use the word "purpose", instead I would say my dream, or my goal, but for all intents and purposes I'm using the word because I think it fits contextually. When I use the word purpose though, I'm not suggesting that it was divinely inspired. Something simply clicks in my brain and I'm driven to pursue it. I think I should also note, I had a strong emotional response to salvation as well. Asking Christ to forgive my sins, inviting the holy spirit to dwell with me and make me new. Singing songs to God, reading my bible, praying - all of these things evoked very strong emotional responses in me for a long time. That was until they stopped seeming real. It turned out that once I could no longer convince myself that it was real, I stopped eliciting emotional responses. We as people love dopamine, but we hate feeling lied to. It's like seeing behind the curtain on a magic trick. Once you know how the trick is down, suddenly the illusion bursts and you can't ever go back to before you knew how it was done. Christianity is that for me now. Simply a broken illusion.
To your last point - when you said "I'm not saying the feeling is fake, but it still feels like a lie to me". That , that right there, is Christianity to me. I still get goosebumps thinking about the god of universe, humbling himself to be born as a baby, subject to cruelty and danger. All for the purpose of saving creatures he loves, who have turned their backs on him. Except now, it reads like fan fiction to me. I get goosebumps thinking about a man, born into poverty, unable to fight but is willing to die for anyone in need (I'm talking about Captain America now lol). What I'm trying to say is that it's fine to have an emotional response to something that you find relatable, beautiful, whatever. You can find inspiration in fiction, but you'd be foolish to follow fiction as if it's reality. I've determined that Christianity is fiction, due to the complete lack of compelling arguments I've heard, and boy oh boy, I've heard a lot of them lol.
I think the next step in our conversation is something along the lines of "how do we determine what is true?". But I've already made this a little too long winded for now!
I think for the atheist it gets confusing when we, Christians, say love is the purpose of this life, because they are actually in 100% agreement with that statement. The problem, which Mike hit on, is the definition of that “love.” The irony, and fallibility, comes when we believe we can determine the “right” form of love ourselves, because it demonstrates we are still continuing to fall for *literally* the oldest trick in the Book - the knowledge of good and evil - the ability to determine right from wrong on our own. I’ve heard a lot of pastors and theologians say, “the sin of Adam and Eve is that they wanted to be like God.” Well, if we leave the statement at that, it is actually an incorrect statement. God explicitly created us to be “like” Him… be “in His image.” Now, that doesn’t mean we become Him, which some Christians have gotten carried away with. After all, there’s only One God, and we aren’t Him. It just means we look like Him, and even Jesus Himself pushed this theology - “be perfect, therefore, like your Father in heaven is perfect.” So why would it be a sin to desire what God created us to be? You have to complete the statement, which is this: “the sin of Adam and Eve (and frankly the whole of humanity) is that they wanted to be like God… ON THEIR OWN. By they’re own capabilities. By they’re own understanding. By they’re own power. By… they’re… own… *spirit*.” That is the problem, which is what atheists, and quite frankly even many Christians, believe - that they can be like God on their own, without God working in and through them. If there’s only One God, and we aren’t Him, then logically speaking the ONLY way we could “be like” someone there is only one of, is if the only one there is, is the one living in and through us. We become nothing more than a vessel or mechanism God uses to produce His attributes. We cannot claim credit for those attributes, since they don’t come from ourselves, but rather from God (including Love. True Love). This knowledge burns up this world. This knowledge burns up someone full of a self that they have been deceived to believe can “be good, too, on his/her own.” But like I said earlier, this is literally the oldest trick in the Book.
Jesus says in John chapter 15, “I Am the true Vine, and you are the branches. If a branch gets cut off it withers and dies.” He goes on to say in the same chapter, “Apart from Me you can do nothing.” In other words, a branch cannot sustain itself. Nor can it produce fruit on it’s own. It’s not the branches fruit the branch produces. It’s the Vines fruit the branch produces. The branch is simply a vessel or mechanism the Vine uses to produce its fruit. The Vine can live on its own. It doesn’t need the branch to survive. Nor does it need the branch to produce its fruit. The Vine can spring out new branches if need be. However, the branch is utterly reliant on the Vine for sustenance. It cannot sustain itself. Nor can it produce fruit by itself. This world cannot stand the idea it cannot be good on it’s own. Satan (the ruler of this world) loves to plagiarize God. He loves to take the fruit of God, and try to make them his own, so he can take credit for it. Including love! Atheists believe if they deny self for humanity’s name sake, that they are truly loving others. And at face value it sounds very similar to Christianity. Hence, satan (the ruler of this world) loves to plagiarize Gods attributes and make them his own. But there is a glaring problem with this atheistic philosophy, which is why it never has worked, nor ever will work. It’s actually an oxymoron. It doesn’t compute. And here’s why: how can a human deny himself/herself for humanity’s sake (what an atheist defines as love) when that very same person is identified as humanity?! You can’t deny self for the sake of self!! It doesn’t work! This is why Jesus said, “those who wish to keep their lives will lose it, and those who lose their lives *FOR MY NAMES SAKE* will find the life.” See, it has to be for something, or Someone, greater than us that we are denying ourselves for in order to work. And since ourselves are part of this world, it actually means we have to deny ourselves for something, or Someone, who is greater than this world in order to work. And there’s only One who is greater than this world - Jesus! It has to be all for Him! It has to be His definition of Love working in and through us, and the only way that can happen is if we let Him work in and through us, which means we first have to get ourselves out of His way - we have to deny ourselves (for His Name’s sake).
Galatians 2:20 “I’ve crucified my*self* with Christ, so that it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me.” This is the purpose of this life. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. This is what atheists lack. Like Mike said, a relationship with their Creator that makes all this possible. That makes Love, true Love, possible. It cannot be done any other way. Any other way is continuing to fall for the oldest trick in the Book.
No matter how you slice it, no one can avoid deciding what is right and wrong for themselves. Even religious people who believe that it comes from a god are making the decision to follow what they believe comes from a god.
This is why religions, and their respective institutions and constituents, have changed what they accept and don't accept throughout time. This is why you have progressive versions of religions and conservative versions.
@@whatwecalllife7034 That’s right. But what I’m talking about is a person using the “free will” (we all stole for ourselves at some point in our lives) to willing give back that “free will” to the One whom we stole it from. This is why the word sin means: to trespass. Jesus Himself said: “I’ve not come to do My own will, but rather the will of the One whom sent Me.”
So yes, we are still temporarily using free will to determine for ourselves right from wrong, but Christians have determined we are wrong (well, they’re supposed to) and need a higher source to determine right from wrong for us. Hence, giving back our free will. And you also have to acknowledge your comment concedes that there is no such thing as true A-theism. “No one can avoid deciding what is right and wrong.” Meaning, even atheists have still made a spiritual determination for themselves on this “religious” issue. No matter how you slice it, no one can avoid being religious. Whether we make ourselves god, or someone else (or something else) god. Whatever we look to for guidance, understanding, provision, joy, contentment, laws (right vs. wrong), justice… etc. that is a “god” to that person. Many people today have made a preferred political ideology their god.
@@justinlafever5653 I think you're confusing "autonomy" and "individuality" with "God".
This reminds me of some people who believe that the entire universe is God; It makes an already vacuous term even more ambiguous.
Even though I say we as individuals decide what's right or wrong, because we live with other sentient beings, we are forced to convene on these issues and decide, as a whole. Non-human animals even do this.
@@justinlafever5653 This is in addition to my last comment, I just thought of it sorry.
To be clear, when I hear you say that Christians give back their free will to a higher source to determine right from wrong for us, I don't see how that's any different from what I've said. This god of which you're referencing doesn't seem to involve itself in human dialogue. Instead we have human writings from what some humans have CLAIMED to come from such an authority, and these humans then tell other humans, starting from an impressionable age, then they reinterpret unfavorable parts to fit an ever changing cultural and moral landscape.
On one hand you have someone making their own purpose.
On the other hand you have a purpose being foisted upon you by other people claiming to speak on behalf of a god that they believe is real but can't demonstrate.
Deciding my own purpose and destiny sounds way better than having it decided for me without my consent or consideration, wouldn't you agree?
To the people who say there is no God and that they need evidence…. In Revelation 6 it says that everyone knows where the wrath is coming from. There won’t be any atheists in that day (tho I would say the Bible says they are already without excuse and suppress the truth of God), and in Revelation 9 after all that has happened so far, it says the world will still not repent of their sin. And following chapters the people are blaspheming God. The issue is never about evidence or the supposing lack thereof.
Take note atheists…
Only Christians believe what revelation says. Why would they take note ?
You’re just question begging bud
That’s not evidence.
There is a "hammer" of sorts in the forest. Two I can think of immediately: a rock, and a log. Neither has that "purpose" until a human being comes along and assigns that purpose to it, through intent. Likewise, human beings assign purpose and meaning to their lives, and each of us looks at one-another with a sense of what we believe the others' purpose to be. That is the reality of it, and since we each affect one-another's lives, and we can decide to purpose ourselves to caring for one-another, or achieving something, we have both a purpose within, and a purpose without, that is more meaningful, in that it directly touches other, living, PROVABLY-EXISTING people, than could any invented purpose based on the supposed wants and needs of an imaginary alien being. There really is no reason to believe that some weird arbitrary declaration of purpose over us from any supposed authority could validate us any better than do our own decisions and our own actions. Any king, priest, or pretend god who puts his hand on you and tells you otherwise, is deceiving you.
Yes!
Amen
If I believed an all-powerful, and all-knowing being created me for a purpose, wouldn't it be pretty arrogant for me to assume that I wasn't already fulfilling that purpose by just being what I am?
Corinthian 13 was our wedding scripture. I absolutely loved this video!!! You explained it so beautifully Pastor Mike. Thanks for the awesome teaching! Glad to see more of your content. ✝️🇿🇦
@@riverofthewood my dearest Darling, then you haven't read it right! To know Jesus and the loving care of the Holy Spirit....and then really understand God's love for us! It's supernatural.... I promise you!!!🥰 I hope 2023 treats you kindly and may it be filled with magical times and countless blessings....oohhh and yes, there are beautiful poems and literature out there about love, most songs out there are about love!!!🎶🎵🎶
@riverwood7012 1 Corinthians 13 is not primarily a definition of love, but a description of love. It is described as "the most excellent way" because the purpose of the passage is to remind those reading it that this is the behaviour that flows from love. By checking our behaviour with this, we can confirm whether we are acting from love, or just from positive feelings toward others, or from selfish motivations.
One reason it is the most (not only) quoted passage on love at weddings, is because it lays out patterns of behaviour to set the couple up for success. One may give a more succinct or palatable definition of love, but if applying it doesn't result in this kind of behaviour, then it has lost its usefulness.
Other passages on love include:
Luke 6:31 - Do to others as you would have them do to you. (Part of a larger context talking about love, in verses 27-36)
Romans 5:8 - But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Ezekiel 33:11 - Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’
I shared a passage from the Old Testament to refute the idea that God's character in most of the Bible is "anything but loving". It shows that God, in His love, reaches out to reconcile with those who are rushing headlong toward death, crying out to them to respond and live. This is consistent with His behaviour described in Romans 5:8. He has done everything in His considerable power to bring the reconciliation and life that we could not work towards, even while we spurned Him.
He has done all this, and still we have the gall to call Him unloving, because we are ungrateful and feel ourselves entitled. What have we done to earn our life? It was a gift. We think more highly of ourselves than we ought. The thought of surrendering to God's love feels uncomfortable, so we suppress it and deny that He exists, while calling Him unloving, without even seeing the illogic of those 2 statements together.
I include myself in these things so that you will not feel like I am pointing anyone else out or throwing shade. I am FAR from perfect, the only hope I have is in His mercy. That is the only hope any of us have, and it makes equals of all of us. But we are all alike welcome within His mercy, it is open to all who will receive.
That is, again, not a definition of love, but perhaps a more expanded (and even less succinct) description.
@riverwood7012 Yes, I do. The Bible teaches that it was created for the devil and his angels. (That means God would rather that every single human in existence would choose life rather than go there.) Do you believe in the concept of justice, and punishment of criminals proportional to their crimes? (Some do, and some do not, I'm asking so that I hear where you're coming from, rather than make an assumption.)
To make the question simpler, if someone steals from you, should they pay you back? If they injure or kill you, should they receive a reprimand, fine, and/or prison sentence? To answer yes to these questions matches up with most people's sense of justice. If we, who are fallible, and not the arbiters of justice, see the need for justice, how much more would God? And how much more entitled would He be to see justice done, and to make it happen?
However, justice alone is not the only facet of God's character. God is also merciful. His justice requires payment, and His mercy requires that we be given an opportunity that we do not deserve. The only way to satisfy that was for Him to come Himself (in the person of Jesus) and pay for what we have done. So literally zero people MUST go to hell. God has gone above and beyond to provide that payment. He just asks that we acknowledge that He paid our debt, and respond in love to the love that has been give to us. He has the power, but not the desire, to send us to hell. But we all have the choice. All who say, "I'm good enough, and God has no right to do this!" are deluding themselves. But to any who say, "I don't want to go to hell!", He holds out His hand, saying, "Then please, by all means, don't! Take my hand and let me pull you out!"
Imagine receiving a cheque for a billion dollars and refusing to cash it because:
1. I'd prefer to work off my billion dollar debt.
2. I resent that person had a billion dollars to give.
3. They also gave a billion dollars to someone I don't like.
4. I'd rather pretend I'm not in debt until the collectors come calling.
5. I owe the debt to the person who wrote me the cheque.
Etc...
@riverwood7012 The question you ask is a popular question, and I understnad that it is borne out of a desire for fairness and justice (both good things!) but it's phrasing assumes that one fully understands the situation, that the crime is finite, and that God is unjust if the punishment is not finite. Here are some other things to consider:
1. Can crimes against an infinite God be considered finite? Or is there an impact for eternity on Him that we are unaware of?
2. If rejection is continual throughout an entire life, is it reasonable to assume it would not continue for eternity?
3. Is it fair to ask God to spend eternity in Heaven with someone who hates Him? If anyone is undeserving of infinite punishment for our sins, it's certainly God.
4. Is it fair to ask that person to spend eternity with a God they hate?
5. Is it fair to allow any evil at all into Heaven, immediately diluting the perfection and turning it into something other than Heaven?
That is just the beginning of the questions we may need to ask to more fully understand the problem of sin, the degree of punishment it requires, and the consequences of allowing it to go unpunished. When sentencing a criminal, the judge's primary responsibility is not the comfort and preference of the criminal. Even on earth, a finite act can have extremely far reaching consequences that the criminal is unaware of, that may last for generations. How much more in this case! And in this case, we are all that criminal, petitioning the judge that the sentence is unjust. He responds, "the sentence is just, but even though you don't deserve it, I will pay it myself if you are willing". And then are we to say no to His offer, and continue to call Him unloving and unjust?
@@riverofthewood okay so a person who commits premeditated murder (“finite”) should not at least who get life in prison? (“infinite”)
Lots of atheists have a problem with God who supposedly punishes us when we make errors instead of lovingly teaching us how to be better people and be happier. I agree with them on that. Which kind of father do you want?
“Don't be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot touch your soul. Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
"There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love."
"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. · This is the first and great commandment "
Ask the Holy Spirit which God exists: the one to love or one to fear. With a loving father we are given our specific purpose in this life each moment instead of going around punishing people.
This is a truncated view of God, the fear of God, and discipline in general (or what you called punishment). Atheist have a problem with God (period). Yes, they should fear him, because he will destroy them (both body and soul in hell). Discipline comes in two forms: teaching, and correction (which also comes in various forms, sometimes a spanking). There's two much to say on the matter to continue. I would recommend you read widely on this topic. For example: "The Fear of the Lord" in A Radical Comprehensive Call to Holiness. Joel Beeke and Michael Barrett (Mentor), 53-60.
@@jeffdowns1038 I don't need to read about God in other books. I've lived a life trusting God. i know that God is love and love begets love, not fear. If you fear God, I recommend you forgiving all those you have grievances against and then you will know that God forgives you and won't punish you.
"For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you."
@@robertdouglas8895 Ok.
@@jeffdowns1038 OK, what? Are you going to forgive all of those who you think have wronged you?
@@robertdouglas8895 my friend that’s a very narrow point of view.
God let’s others write about Him as well. Not to replace the Bible, but to enhance our understanding of Him.
If archaeologists took your view then we would not have the wealth of evidence to be able to support our Bible when speaking to Atheists, for example.
"The meaning of life is just to be alive."
Alan Watts
But why be alive?
@@schoolworkaccount3887
Why be black? Or male? Or human?
@@schoolworkaccount3887 Well, you _are_ alive. Or atleast I hope so.
Why throw that away? For all you know, this life is all there is. Even if you believe in an afterlife, thats all it is. Belief. And unfounded belief at that.
So if you throw your life away, you're throwing away _everything._
Don't you think that is a very weak stance. For something to be meaningful it needs to be important and worthwhile. If you have an individual who has had an extremely 'treacherous' life, and they grow to equate being alive to pain and suffering. How could you tell them that simply living has meaning.
That is a somewhat extreme case but so many people will hit rock bottom during their lifespan, and the idea of being alive would seem to be a nightmare. A meaningful purpose for life is something that would bring about strength and hope.
@@trayfor
You decide whats worth doing in your life, you attribute value to something, also called Nhilism
or rather, actual Nhilism.
I've been following street preachers for several months and they usually project their failed experiences as a sinner onto others. Since they were so miserable in their sin, so it must be with everyone else. My issue is, we KNOW that there are people who are non believers and are enjoying their life to the maximum right now and also have no issues with finding a purpose (or purposes) for their life. This goes against the very idea that god is needed for purpose or to be happy or content with life.
I used to spend alot of my time watching this channel as the Christian I thought I was. I was extremely passionate about it all. And I spent so long worrying about my doubt and unbelief, trying to supress it out of loyalty to this God. But I eventually came to the realisation that God had never shown anything of he's existence to me personally. All I was doing was trying make excuses for that because I really wanted it all to be true (and I still do.) But if he really did exist he would not have left me in my struggle of belief for so long despite the loyalty I showed without ever doing anything about it. I'm still open to it because as I said I want it all to be true even now as an agnostic, but I will not self delude. So I guess its up to God if he really does exist
I don't know how long your struggle has been going on for but I struggled for 40 years. And as I'm typing these words, it just hit me... Forty years is the time the Israelites spent in the desert on a journey that should have taken only a short time. Why? Because they were disobedient. If they had done what God had asked of them, they'd have reached the promised land very soon. That's exactly why it took me forty years. Because I got lost in the desert. Because, first, I wanted to create God in my image of what I thought He should be like. Once I was passed that, I clung to things I didn't want to let go of, trying to talk myself out of the guilt I was trying to suppress because I didn't want to deal with the emotional pain that giving this thing up, would cause me. Until I realised I was putting my own emotional "feel good, avoid pain" above God, thereby making an idol of it. My scepticism, fear, doubt, anger (at God),ended when I surrendered everything, my whole being to Him. Asking Him to show me the dark spots in my heart, a heart that He knows far better than I do, so that I can surrender those too. Since I've done this, I'm filled and surrounded by the peace that surpasses all understanding. And it's far, far better than the things I used to value and didn't want to give up. "I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ" Philippians 3:8.
Don't give up searching. Ask God to show you the barriers that prevent you from experiencing His presence. I bet you, it will be something of your own doing (not pointing fingers, how can I if I'm human myself?) When Jesus answered the rich young man and said to him to sell all his riches and follow Jesus, Jesus wasn't referring to material wealth. He was referring to the things we hold dear and more important than our relationship with Him.)
"Search me, O God, and know my heart; Try me, and know my anxieties; And see if there is any wicked way in me, And lead me in the way everlasting."
Psalms 139:23-24 NKJV. I hope and pray that you will find what you say you'd like to have. I know that you can. Take care.
@@karinarnaud4093 I just don't understand why I haven't had anything revealed to me if it was the case he existed. I mean I spent so much time reading my Bible, thinking about God and talking about God. Surely, if this God did exist, and if infact all these claims in the Bible were true he would have helped me. Maybe I'm yet to fully know God because I've been doing things wrong (which could be possible), but surely the more likely option is that he just doesn't exist
@@JoshuaBoulton Josh, I wish I knew a way to help you find what your heart and soul are yearning for. Believe me, I know what it feels like. I suffered a first bout of a major depressive episode coupled with generalised anxiety in 2003, after my second child was born. I felt like I was going through hell!
I was a weird kind of Christian back then, confused about a lot of things, and also quite a lot into New Age stuff. It changed in 2017 when I finally understood the errors of my way and accepted Jesus as my Saviour. But I was also going through a number of traumatic life changes at the same time and the depression, which never went away completely, flared up with a vengeance. I prayed, cried buckets full of tears and begged God to take the depression away, or at least, make it bearable. It was a fair request, I thought. Afterall, how am I expected to climb all these mountains in my life while suffering from debilitating depression and anxiety? But, despite all my pleas, He didn't do a thing to make it better (He actually did, just not in the way I wanted Him to, and I can only now, in retrospect, see how He carried me through those times.) That made me seriously, seriously doubt Him, as you might imagine! I was also left in a position where I had to start earning an income after having been a full time mom for many years. By that time, my qualifications were obsolete and I've been out of the workforce for way too long to find employment. My age also counted against me. I had no option but to get a new qualification and start a brand new career in which I only earn commission without a fixed income. Imagine that - suffering from paralysing depression, anxiety and having to start a new business with not a cent to fall back on and no guarantees that I'm actually going to get paid for my efforts unless it results in a sale? I thought it was really very unfair. I was expected to run a race with severe depression tied like a ball and chain to my leg! I doubted the existence of God, just like you do, because if He was there, then why wasn't He answering? Why was He leaving me to struggle alone when I felt like I was drowning in my circumstances? To make matters worse, I watched some of my colleagues who started in the industry at the same time as me, doing so much better than I was, while I seemed to lose almost every prospect I was working on. I alternated between seriously doubting God's existence, to reproaching Him for leaving me alone when He promised He would always support and provide for me as His child. He asked who would give their child a snake when the child asked for fish? I felt He was handing me the snake.
I totally felt like the stepchild and when I prayed, I prayed with the expection to be disappointed. I was totally mad at Him more times than I wish to admit. It was so bad sometimes that I didn't even want to ask Him for anything, because I feared He wouldn't answer, giving me more reason to doubt His existence. And that would be devastating because,like you, I really do want Him to exist. If there's no God, then there's no ultimate reason for this life, in my opinion.
Things stayed this way until, as I said in my previous reply to you, I finally decided to end a relationship I had with someone. This relationship was a bit of a grey area. It wasnt entirely wrong but it wasn't entirely right either. But having it, consoled me in my brokenness and I kept trying to bargain with God to not have to end it. Breaking ties with this person caused me immense pain on two previous occasions when I tried to break it off , and I felt that I didn't have the emotional resources to be strong and walk away. So I prayed to God to help me cut the ties, help break the emotional attachment that I had to this person. And whereas He kept silent up until that point, this time He did answer. He was so gracious to me that I was able to walk away from that relationship feeling no pain, only relief. And that was only the beginning. I'm growing closer to Him everyday. I finally have the personal relationship with Him that I craved for. It's not that every thing is suddenly moonlight and roses. The difference is that now I'm feeling His presence and I'm receiving divine guidance on how to navigate life, which makes everything an amazing journey. I pray that it will happen for you soon. And it will, please don't give up. Tell God again and again how much you want to experience His presence and ask Him to reveal to you what it is that's causing any obstacles. It could be something like unforgiveness, or an activity that you wilfully engage in which is in conflict with the ten commandments, it could be an addiction. I don't know what it is. You might be thinking of something right now which gives you a niggly feeling that it's perhaps not okay with God. If so, ask Him to help you know what He wants you to do.
Also, please remember that God is not like a petulant child to withdraw every time you mess up. He is kind, loving and patient. He knows that we are only dust and prone to make mistakes. Please read Psalm 103. It's so reassuring.
Problems arise when we persist in sin or when, as happened to me, we value something else more than Him. (I broke the first commandment, "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me" when I clung to the comfort I got out of that wrongful relationship.)
Also re-read about Jesus and the rich young man (Matthew 19 or Luke 18:18 - 30) The young man upheld the law (commandments) since he was a little kid. Jesus's heart warmed to him when he asked what he had to do to get eternal life. But when he heard the answer, it was more than what he was willing to part with. He valued his wealth more than the thing he thought he really wanted, namely eternal life. Please understand that it's not about his wealth. It's about the love of money, or the love of anything which you love more than you love God.
As a final word in this very,very long reply, re-read Matthew 6:33 "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you."
I used to think of seeking the Kingdom of God as something which I genuinely desired, but I also wanted to do it as a kind of insurance policy that I would also be looked after in this earthly life. But as silly as it sounds, I think most people find this side-benefit attractive (and it is, no denying that.) But, there's a subtle shift of emphasis when we realise that seeking the Kingdom of God first,and finding it, IS the ultimate reward and nothing else has to be added unto it. And if you seek, as you have been, you shall find. God will not overlook a humble heart that sincerely wants ONLY Him. Keep seeking and, importantly, seek Him for Himself and nothing else. Ask Him to replace the desires of your heart with HIS desires for you, of which He should be the number one desire.
I'm rooting for and I'm praying for you, Josh. Please persist. Just surrender your will and your entire being and ask Him to change your heart to want what He wants, and you will have your breakthrough sooner than you think. Feel free to ask me to clarify or help with anything (I'll try not to write such long replies.)
And please let me know how you're doing.
@@KatinkaPofmuis you write beautifully. This post clearly demonstrates love for thy neighbor. May God bless you as you serve His name.
@@BugonRug Thank you for this nice acknowledgement. 😊 May you too be blessed.
I am an atheist, any questions.
I think the hammer analogy could be improved if you compared it to a rock.
The rocks exist in nature, and you could use one as a hammer, but the hammer was designed (purposed) for driving nails, and the rocks don't have a designed purpose, they just exist.
Wait that actually makes a lot of sense
But neither rocks nor hammers are people. And _people_ aren't tools. _People_ aren't property.
@@Bill_Garthright We are designed with superior intelligence, empathy, talents, bodies that could turn ideas into reality. We're basically one step short of being a god, and that's perfection.
The hammer analogy is called an ANALOGY because it compares one thing with another. Do not assume that just because Mike used a tool in his example, humans are now comparable to tools.
@@indigofenrir7236
_We are designed_
*Evidence?* Do you have *one piece of good evidence* that people are designed?
_The hammer analogy is called an ANALOGY because it compares one thing with another. Do not assume that just because Mike used a tool in his example, humans are now comparable to tools._
That's exactly what it means. You said it, yourself: "it compares one thing with another."
Look, I appreciate the reply, but I watched this video three months ago, and I don't remember the details. If you want to talk, let's talk. But maybe you should reply to my longer comment on this video. I go into more details there.
@@Bill_Garthright Clearly you came here only to argue without watching the video.
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 (NASB95): 13 The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person.
14 For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil.
I think you're being too judgemental about atheists, people don't need a religion to have a purpose in life, people can find their own purposes by themselves, it's called living and being human.
I think you're viewing religion in the wrong light. Religion isn't just some moral compass, it is what people think about their eternities. Christ is how we get to Heaven, so we believe in Christ and do our best to follow the Law that God established.
If we don't believe? Then we go to Hell. It's pretty cut and dry, honestly.
When people say that you don't need a religion, sure, maybe you don't if you don't care about your eternity.
@@fatstrategist Please stop using Hell as a threat.
Mike Winger I agree with you for our purpose in life. We had a missionary speak in our church awhile back and he talked about our purpose and he mentioned we are created for the purpose of a relationship and Jesus sums it all up in two commandments "To love God... And love others"
But this goes deeper I was thinking even across social media and business with even among how networks and collaborations are formed.
Yeah, it's really too bad that your god doesn't have a purpose, huh? After all, he presumably has no one to dictate a "purpose" to _him?_ Poor guy! :)