What “Sleeping Beauty” Really Is About - Prof. Jordan Peterson
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- Опубліковано 7 січ 2018
- Psychology professor Jordan B. Peterson discusses profound aspects of the classic fairy tale “Sleeping Beauty”.
This clip is only a small excerpt of Jordan Peterson's comprehensive lecture “Biblical Series IV: Adam and Eve: Self-Consciousness, Evil, and Death”. You can watch it entirely here:
• Lecture: Biblical Seri...
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Psyche Matters You’re thumbnail art is incredible. I adore it.
After a fling with a boy which felt like a lifetime at the time. The boy went from wanting to marry me then to cold and dismissive over night. I found the shock of it so confusing I wanted to go into a coma. I was a teenager. I had just gotten grade As in my studies and after this insident I couldn't get out of bed to get to college on time. He blamed me. I wrote a song for him to try and be his friend again and I even sang it on huge radios shows, and toured it world wide. But he still won't see me even though he wants to follow me on Facebook which I am not on. It has taken years to get over him because it was the confusion which made me so sleepy. Like a puzzle which I could never solve. I have never been in a relationship after that.it is really frightening to not be able to wake up.
I don’t wish to offend but I used to fall asleep to your lectures quite often.
I recently quit smoking weed, which effects short term memory and dreams. I fell asleep sober to one of your lectures and had a pretty bad nightmare.
Oh and one night I had a sleep paralysis episode (which my mother has quite often, and I have never experienced before)
Yea I think I’m going to start smoking weed again before bed.
And definitely continue to listen to your lectures whenever I have the time.
(Usually in bed, sigh)
Edit: my brother had night terrors pretty often in his youth, he said he didn’t recall having any recently (over the last 15years) since he starting toking up. Whether thats a memory issue or a benefit from toking idk.
.
@Zayden Jamison
Scam, hacker account.
It’s even worst when your parents act as if they had nothing to do with how bad you’ve turned out to be. They only want to take credit for the good stuff, not the terrible stuff.
Narcissistics parents, yes.
@Monique05 2001 heal yourself? What rubbish. Go tell that to soldiers with ptsd. Go tell someone who's depressed to stop being depressed. How ignorant can you be?
@@ggkinz8506 ... have you never heard " Physician heal thyself." ?
@Monique05 2001 cool story. Me too
@@ggkinz8506 we can absolutely heal ourselves. Please look at your projection so you can see the holes in your aura that need attention. Unfortunately, mainstream help often falls flat because there’s always a spiritual component that needs addressed before full restoration can take place.
Moral: You can’t keep a child locked up forever. That why you teach them to look both ways before crossing the street. Because one day, they’ll have to cross it themselves.
You're missing the sly payoff parents get for doing so. This is the real poisoned apple.....oops wrong story
@@jackdeniston59 i don't understand
Exactly
I need to tell my stupid parents this!
Some parents just do it thinking they are protecting the child.All my life my parents didn't let me go learn anything I wanted to learn swimming they said it would be very tough for me,martial arts would be too tough, going to somewhere to travel I won't be able to take care of myself,even when I choose a career my father kept saying it's too tough you won't be able to pass the exam.in short I never did anything in life.i went to school close to my home and now I a 23 year old know nothing how to do.my mother has done everything for me I don't even know how to or what is actually good.i said let me go for a hostel but they deny.you are our only child.i failed my college then got depressed.i don't even earn but they just say stay here and do nothing.it gets super annoying tbh just yesterday I was sewing some face mask I saw online and my father said no no don't do and took the needle and thread himself and started stiching.when i want to go out with other girls for run or anything they say i cant do anything now it's literally in my brain I can't do anything.i said take me to a psychiatrist but won't.my father said I can talk to them there is no need for psychiatrist.i don't know what to do anymore.i know they adopted me and raised but isn't it my life too
Seriously man the thumbnail lmao
10/10
🤣🤣🤣
Hehe
I live for them
@@carolineahmed9666 I like to think Jordan Peterson would appreciate the humor and effort. 🙏
Now I want a Psychological Significance of Disney Movies lecture series...
yo yang wen li
I think you would end up learning that Disney movies helped to warp the pairing psychology of two generations to a point that gave rise to nasty third wave feminism. But what do I know?
@@SnootchieBootchies27 ... I suspect you're correct.
@Bryan mark
But that is his entire point. These are all archetypes. That’s why the stories are so fascinating in childhood. (Relating to Jung’s collective unconscious and the archetypes.)
*Song of the South* would start another Civil War. But if the treatment of Black servitude is enough to get it withdrawn, that also makes it hard to discuss its treatment of white poverty, sexual stereotyping, and its treatment of boys, men, fathers, and husbands, the four things Hollywood has seemed the most determined to get rid of since *Silver Spoons* went off the air.
Not enough talk about that thumbnail lmao
DatsRandom that's the whole reason I went to the comments on this lmao
😂😂😂
Not enough talk about your profile pic😂
Kinda cringy
@@F0nkyNinja bad day, bud?
“...she’s all freaked out because she met the love of her life for like, 5 minutes...”😂👏👏👏
I know a lot of women like that.
Utterly and completely destroyed because a man who doesn't even know she exists didn't smile at her.
What’s so funny, it’s literally how love happens for alot of people, when they were least expecting it to. So his statement about falling in love wasn’t really that funny or crazy. Sarcasm if anything. And sarcasm isn’t reality. Distort reality by making it sound like a laughable stupid thing, but realistically, love does happen that way whether it sounds like a stupid way to be or not.
😆 admittedly one of my favorite fairytales
Michael S- You’re definitely not wrong; my husband and I have that story😇
@@michaels3535 you could add for some pple
There's this one scene in Smallville where Clark and his father are arguing. Jonathan protests Clark's insistence to go out and do what he needs to do, saying "It'smy job to protect you." Clark responds, "It's not your job to protect me. It's your job to teach me how to protect myself."
This man should be a teacher in every university in the world..I adore him so practical and interesting knowledge😀
Amore Psyche he's educating everyone now
Really? Think for yourself. It's nice to hear others opinions, but don't make another's words your gospel.
algol291 lol...these are not opinion this is science and ancient knowledge.If you don't recognize it I think you haven't read a lot..
??yeah, you're kinda young, aren't you? Like, under 25 years old I'd imagine.
Look, it's great that you admire the guy, but psychology is mostly subjective in nature. Sleeping Beauty was published in 1697. The idea of the sub conscious didn't exist at that time (nearly 200 years later).
He is a psychologist, now able to make a fortune on his own, personal conjecture of how he sees things. It isn't gospel, what he is preaching.
Ahahahahah I am not young at all, anyway the idea of subconscious existed wayyy more before than you think you can find it in every religion and mythology and also in the zen/buddhism ( I have studied a lot of mythology) all are based on archytipes which our brain immediately recognize because they are rooted deeply in our biology.
if you see movies and literature they are all based on these archetypes, the hero quest, slay the dragon take the gold and share it with the community (Hercules, Greek period ect..) And if you study also the Italian literature 1400/1600 Dante perfectly explain this as well and if you study the Bible also is full of archetypes. This was the only way for them to share knowledge through patterns that our brains knows very well. Which is what psychology does: studies human brain and behaviour through a scientific method and social experiment. Sleeping beauty is based on far more ancient mythology that you can think and yes ancient people knew the world way better than us! Now people live in total ignorance without any education of arts/literature/psychology and so on...
Imagine being JPs kindergarten teacher and asking all the children what they thought of the movie.
@DrTheKay That's what makes the joke funny.
@DrTheKay quite an eloquent one that too
DrTheKay it’s a joke
Wow fantastic analysis!
"I don't have a tuma!"
"That's why Disney created Frozen, that appalling piece of rubbish."
And I'm dead!!!!
.....I liked that flic....🤗
Well, I liked Frozen. Just because Peterson doesn't like something, it doesn't mean you can't. We all like and dislike different things. The world would be boring if we all liked the same thing.
@@1969cmp i like it well enough too, except the snowman, can't stand Olaf. I just thought what he said was hilarious.
I love that he said that coz I instantly didn’t like frozen while watching it. A coworker who loved it asked me why. It was so melodramatic for me I was like how can anyone even remotely find the story appealing? Lol
@@2004dale Eh the melodramatics make kids want to watch it. We can realize the problems but it’s entertaining for them
Being sheltered by parents does its damage. The things you don't know about makes you weak and predisposed to danger.
Yes but, females art the damsels.
Wow. I never realized that Aurora actually awakened the prince. She is the one who prompted him to finally be a man and confront the dragon!
The anima!
Lolll... I love how viciously Mr Peterson ripped into bad parenting. And finally, someone who sees 'Frozen' for what it is.
irurouni I
But Frozen literally has the exact same message. Elsa was sheltered her entire life by her parents and when forced to confront her reality decides to run away, instead of confronting. I like Jordan Peterson but I think his interpretation of Frozen is a bit more on the hate Frozen train because it’s popular rather than looking at in the same light as he did with Sleeping Beauty. Just because Frozen had a few feminist themes in it doesn’t make it a bad film, I will admit it has a few issues with its plot but it’s not the worst app along thing in the world.
Frozen is an INFJ Ni - Ti loop when Fe is shut down and how to get out of it.
If you are not an INFJ, you don't get it.
It is not rubbish. It is something that says don't wait for a man to save you.
Anna and olaf are ENFP which is the unconscious of INFJ
Kristoff is an ISTJ which is INFJ's super ego.
And the ice man she made when she asked kristoff, Anna and Olaf to leave is an ESTP subconscious.
The let it go song is reclaiming I don't care what you think of me and my feelings as I am me . This is the way for an INFJ to allow creative flow.
So this whole movie is packed with INFJ messages. Just because non INFJs are not getting it doesn't mean anything.
This movie is about : dear INFJ, be your own saviour. As you use 4 levels of your mind correctly. No one in the world is gonna understand it anyway. So save yourself and don't wait for a prince to do it for you.
I love it for that reason. Not because of feminism. I would encourage everyone to get out of codependence into independence then interdependence gradually. Because it is a practical way to build your personality. And she needed her independence, before interdependence. Kristoff has an indirect role as a man . This is ok as well. What is wrong with building independence from men . Then building an even more fulfilling interdependence? The other way around when I am totally codependenant is garbage. I am not a feminist. I believe in empowering everyone , I adore men in my life. Because men in my family are awesome.
@@madamehoefyre1808 any feminazi theme is beyond defending...
@@stevecollins5487 How enlightened.
Jordan Peterson is interesting in his own right, but I enjoy how he weaves myth, storytelling and archetypes into his teaching.
Some people complain about that and say he's all over the place going from topic to topic. But he's not, it's all the same topic and it's all relevant to the core message he's trying to get across.
Yeah that’s got nothing to do with the story of Sleeping Beauty he made it all up
everything is perception and he is explaining his
Well that’s what makes him soooo interesting! He explains the human condition in well understood terms and incorporates all knowledge from “everywhere”... be it fairy tales, be it the Bible, be it Young, be it Freud, be it ancient philosophers, be it traditions. I find this totally genius!
@@evangeliakaratza-styliara4413 True.
One of my favorite quotes of his is when he was talking about the role of university professors on the Left:
"Underpay intellectuals at your own peril."
This is the homeschool situation my roommate went through, the type where his parents kept him in a house with his siblings out in the middle of open country, far away from society, and he had no know-how of how to navigate the world full of non-Christians. Homeschooling isn't always a bad thing, though, just as long as you get your child to experience the world fully and don't hide them from it.
God how crazy it is what he said about the parents that literally hate their children when they show signs of independence, courage I could've sworn he was talking about my dad who hates me because he couldn't control me and make a slave out of me and always trys to discourage me and instill fear and disappointment within me from the outside world and now he's hoping to get me married off to someone I don't even know in another part of the world all together just so he doesn't have to deal with me anymore and not have to be challenged at all!!!
Even after you’re married off, watch out...if he’s still alive you could still get hoovered back. Many narc father’s don’t really even begin to take over your life until you’re an adult. They wait for you to have a moment of weakness and then they swoop in and offer you the relationship you were denied your whole life. Never let your guard down until he’s passed away.
Narsissism... Glad someone pointed it out
I’m fortunate enough to where my mom did not do that with me, but so many of my older coworkers have sons they can’t stop complaining about. One of the most common lines is “I joined the military and bought him a car and did all this stuff for him and now he’s just off pissing it away,” well of course. Everything was given, nothing was earned. Now not only did they set their children up for failure they already subjected their whole lives to this idea of what they thought their child could be instead of what they could be. It’s been really depressing to hear from so many. Nearly half of the men 50+ I talk to feel that way
and maybe the children wish never born at all. because parents never asked that question.. but that parent wanna have children
When I listened to this I thought of Dorey saying to Marlin about Nemo "hmm..thats funny. If you never let him do anything, then he never does anything.." or something like that...basically if Marlin keeps Nemo protected from everything, he will never experience anything
Jordan Peterson should do a Masterclass.
Every lecture he gives IS A MASTERCLASS
What Zio 01 said...
He is a walking Masterclass.
He could be a stand up comedian on the side. This man's philosophies and how he applies humor is a great method to keep his audience captivated and entertained.
I like how Dr Peterson takes a relatable subject such as a movie or a fairy tale and make a whole new interpretation that never occured to us and it's both educational and realistic
What do I hate more than a Jordan Peterson lecture cut off when it's just getting interesting? not much at all.
@Jess Klem ... That's hilarious.
I have spoken with numerous women about topics related to how they make decisions, and their mental models of life, and while I have learned some interesting things, by and large, women act on instincts that are unexamined, and thus cannot be articulated by themselves.
When I have ingested enough data on a topic, and I propose a hypothesis, then they can usually confirm that the model I've articulated is what they are subconsciously following... (Although even then they may not be able to agree, if the model generates so much cognitive dissonance that they can't permit themselves to see their actions dissected that plainly)
So while I sympathize with the idea of "go ask a woman"... And I can you from experience, it is not an effective method of investigation.
@@breakingthemasks You have not spoken to me
@@breakingthemasks You speak very intelligently, but generalizing about half of the human race is not going to lead to real understanding. Your statement about women 'by and large acting on instincts that are unexamined' is a statement that can be made about humanity in general - none of us have a lock on rationality. Ironically, those who think themselves highly rational are sometimes the ones whose unconscious motivations are least recognized - especially to themselves. So, in short, a little more humility is in order. And remember - 'the plural of anecdote is not data'.
@@suzannehartmann946 ... I don't see a comment from you?
If you mean that you are fully aware of the way in which you make decisions... Then I applaud your self knowledge.
And I'll follow up by asking, have you noticed the majority of your female friends being similarly introspective and aware?... Or have you noticed that they tend to have emotional reactions and repetitive behaviors that don't make rational sense given their stated objectives?
@@MM-Iconoclast ... I appreciate your acknowledgment of my intellect.
I will point out that I did not, and do not, begin with generalizations. I begin always with open minded questions, seeking the genuine truth, whatever that may be.
Through my investigations I eventually form conclusions which I then test against real people. And, if the predictions of my theories are shown to be accurate... At that point I can condense my thoughts into a generalization.
well it's true that both men and women can be accused of acting on instincts that are unexamined... Within the sphere of dating and relationships, men do not have the privileges of constant new partner availability that women have.
The fallout from that difference between men and women is that men must, if they are to become successful with women, analyze their behaviors in order to determine what elements of their personality, behavior, attitudes, etc are detrimental to their romantic efforts.
women, since they have such endless access to a large variety of men, can avoid this self-examination by switching out to a new relationship without significantly analyzing why the old relationship failed.
Your comment about the unconscious motivations of rational people versus emotional people may be true... But it's also substantially useless.
Rational types undertake self analysis as a habit pattern, and while they may not be perfect at it... I would still say they have significantly better odds of understanding their motivations then would someone who is emotionally driven and not prone to self analysis.
You're making assumptions about my level of ego investment in my hypothesis which simply aren't true.
I've created a hypothesis, extensively tested it, and so far it appears to be true for the vast majority of women.
If you can provide new information that could modify my hypothesis, I would welcome it. But I doubt you'll be able to do so.
And finally, it's true that anecdotes and data are not synonymous... However in the social sciences true hard data is extraordinarily rare. I wouldn't advise anyone to wait decades for statistically hard data in the social sciences to make decisions about how to conduct themselves in the world.
Cheers
I like to imagine when authors listen to an in depth analysis of their work they think to themself... "wow I wrote all that? I must be a genious. I just thought it was a neat story idea"
These stories have been handed down for centuries. I doubt if any originator of any of these "fairy tales" is still alive. They have been seriously altered by Disney. Most of the ones I read before Disney sanitized them were brutal: people dying, limbs hacked off, etc. (Cautionary tales.) I think Frozen is a version of the Snow Queen, an old Scandinavian tale. I'm too scared to watch it because Disney versions drive me up the wall.
@@vivianblack2951 little red riding hood was a story about R***. Just throwing that out there
I realized the meaning of sleeping Beauty when I was studying Wagner's Ring Cycle and the very similar story of Siegfried awakening Brunhilda. It also goes back to an even older story from India about the princess Madhumalati. In those stories it is clear that the male finds himself when the feminine awakens. The story is about recognizing the elusive nature of the feminine. It is about showing young men to look past the shyness and awkwardness of outer appearances and value a girl who seems sleepy and withdrawn. It is a similar message that is given to girls in the frog prince: look past the outer roughness and see the potential prince inside. Sleeping Beauty is about awakening what Jung called the anima.
The feminist critique of this story is sloppy, shoddy academics and reactionary bigotry towards cultures that still had an intuitive connection to nature. Feminists demonize a story that was actually designed to help some males see that women who are shy and sleepy can still be strong within. These stories are much like Buddhist koans, they are meant to be contemplated until a hidden wisdom unfolds. Using ordinary reactions to scream about archetypal myths being "oppressive" is phony "scholarship".
Jay Campbell. yeahh, I don't think that the original story is about that... at all 😅😅😅
Kid3t3rnity. You see that I disagree with Peterson and that I'm a woman, so you asume that I'm a feminist, right?. If the world could be that simple.
Don't be so deffensive dude, I didn't even said anything "abusive" to anyone . Nor implied anything like that at all¬¬
I was talking about the ORIGINAL story of Sleeping Beauty, not the Disney adaptation. If I'm not mistaken, she was raped by a king while she was sleeping. And she gave birth three kids.
I could be wrong, but I remember it like that.
Besides, I don't need to agree with EVERYTHING that Jeferson says and nod submisively like a sheep (like some people do). *I have a great respect for that man, and that's why I have my own opinions as well.*
You are reacting just the way that feminists do (deffensive and acusatory), which is ironic.
In the Brothers Grimm version of the story the "prince" does not awake her with a kiss. He rapes her as she is sleeping , he leaves, she gets pregnant and gives birth while sleeping and is only awaken when one of her children removes the prick of the spinning wheel from her finger by sucking on it
Angie Carrizo This story went through a series of retellings. It's like the Arthur legends. J.P. was only citing this Disney version of the story for analysis.
Aglaya Majorem. okay, I understand that. But I hate being taken as a feminazi just because I disagree with some points with J.P., and because I'm a woman -_-
Jordan interpreted Frozen as I did when I watched it. I feel so validated fr.
Same!
I love Professor Peterson so much.
"forward going courageous consciousness" how beauty is expressed
All women of colour posses this quality. Thats their inner beauty we see daily.
Dito!
That thumbnail though… I never wanted to be a princess so badly.
What I liked about the Disney's Sleeping Beauty is that the Prince, who was also locked up, broke free and rescued her despite his fears and struggles.
But not only him. He broke free because the fairies freed him. He got out of the castle and saved her because the fairies aided the Prince. If the Prince represents Aurora's consciousness, then it shows that despite how strong you think you are, you need the aid of others to succeed.
I loved this movie because everyone had a strong purpose, and was presented respectfully.
Love the thumbnail bud
This is how IB teachers expect you to analyze a text.
He just described the millenials with their "safe spaces". Lol
ain't no safe place for millennials bruh
@@samanosvasilias Some colleges at least in America decided to to adopt them though.
I somewhat agree. I also think they are the “shadow” of the boomer generation. They weren’t allowed to be emotional, were made to suck it up with their emotions and suppress them. How else would the universe really get you to deal with your shadow than it be your child lol, its quite interesting
Very well said Brittnie!
remember its cuz of overprotective parents
Tragically enough we have a whole generation of sleeping beauties out there these days
Touche'
I think even more so in the ‘50s and ‘60s when so many women chose to be drugged. Society put them to sleep so they wouldn’t think and do for themselves. With the ‘70s a lot of women started to wake up.
@@deviritter5232 yes , I remember that song
"Mamas little helper"
They put themselves in situations they may regret later, as if they’re sleeping, and then they claim whatever happened was completely the man’s responsibility.
Blame their parents
I love this interpretation and I would like to share a few more aspects of my own to it. This is what I think the story is about: the inevitable inheritance which we get from our parents through their genes. Those are good and bad genes (represented by fairies) which must not be ignored, but always taken into consideration and respected no matter how harmful they might be ( the evil fairy not invited). If we ignore them, they might turn against us and stab us in the back unexpectedly (the fatal sting). We are sent into the world (the forest) by our parents with our heritage (the gifts from the fairies) unprepared for the cursed gene if ignored. We cannot escape its fatal blow and stop "growing" (fall asleep). We must fight a very long and hard battle to realise where the problem is and beat the enemy inside, and finally become fully aware and in control (wake up). The prince is our will to fight , our strength and love for oneself as we are. Once we accept ourselves as we are (we learn about ourselves by facing our fears = prince fighting the thorns and dragons) we start "living" for real. As Mr Peterson said, the prince represents our consciousness, our alter ego, which we first meet once we stop being children and step into adulthood. This meeting is full of love and surprise. But this love won't last very long because of the a shortcoming (a fatal sting) which will occupy our world so much that we will succumb to its influence and forget about all that is good (our talents). But we don't sleep altogether, a part of us is trying to accept the flow and thus get the control over the thorns and dragons. Some people never wake up, never grow up, never manage to beat themselves and start living. They stay trapped in their comfort zone (the forest with good fairies) and thus lose the opportunity to experience the true love and true life. That's why it is important to prepare your children for the life by giving them tools and weapons (self consciousness) to face their worst fears, by teaching them not to be scared of their flows and shortcomings, but to face them, embrace them and use them to their advantage. You must invite, get to know and accept the Maleficent instead of forgetting to invite her to the party! She can be your best friend, and not your worst enemy.
I've Jordan Peterson ever reads this: Please make a breakdown on the most popular children's tales! I think a lot of us would appreciate it!
That guy just summed up my life in 5 minutes lol
this interpretation is pretty good, really all the pieces fit pretty well. trying to tell a story about a woman not getting with a man or vice versa would be fine as long as it has some truth in it and it's not merely propaganda. Which would probably take some careful thinking about what is it that's true about that.
Anyways. I did always like Maleficient in Sleeping Beauty and watched it often cause she was so dark and malicious. And I did also like that they had a woman that dark.
My interpretation of Malecient was she representing a person in Sleeping Beauties life that was so evil and malicious it blocked Sleeping Beauty from any progress as an adult and she could not enter the world of adults.
I also really like when the Prince battles the thorns on the way to the castle. It is almost like a labyrinth sort of symbol, one that could end up ensnaring him too where he is really put in real danger for trying to save the Princess.
The spinning needle, whatever it was was something completely hypnotic and appealing to Aurora such that she could not resist it and needed to face her confrontation with 'death.' Sort of like how teenagers in their individuation process from their parents can sometimes do very apparently self destructive things.
But your interpretation as I say I like quite a bit as well. Very funny bit about the fairy's and how useless they are against the real dark forces in this.
Jesus. My whole formative mental development explained in 5 minutes.
Jesus will help with that too ;)
173880
Same 😂
Ditto Lucy!!
He must analyze all Disney cartoons from now on 😂 next Snow White
Preparation for being queen. Self protection until the time is right....safe.... when she wakes up the whole village is dead from old age and she can rule her own kingdom without that old influence... she is the new order. There is a uniting of opposing forces with her marriage to the Prince a union , a growing socially and leaving the past behind
I like this version of interpreting it.
Thank you for talking about Prince Stefan fighting off the dragon: I watched that movie babysitting the little girl next door when I was a teenager and I noticed this part so differently as a 16 year old girl... I thought wow he went through all that trouble for one girl?! Also I thought it was him fighting a battle where he was learning something about himself too because he doesn’t look too certain he will he get out alive. He seems like he could be completely outwitted but he is not.
So I love that and I say screw Prince Charming because Prince Stefan is where it’s at (kind of ... Charming provided a really good relationship that helped Cindy escape her bully of a stepmother but you know just a joke)
In the disney version Stefan was the dad Phillip was the prince. 😊 Although the original 'brothers grimm's was so much darker although honestly I enjoyed both stories. There is something amazing to know the grimm's version then watch disney.
Princess Aurora will always be my fav Disney Princess ! She needs more credit
I imagine this is how it'd be like to hear a bedtime story from Jordan
Frozen... I would have liked a Disney adaptation of the snow queen, which frozen is loosely based of. It is about a personal Journey of a girl. That would have been revolutional for disney.
Just take some time to read the Grimm Brother's stories, (just look at the name and you know what kind of stories you can expect) it scared the hell out of me when I was a child. It took me some time to understand how they were talking about the horrors and the evil of the world.You find pedophile, cannibalism stories and many more gruesomeness.
Not true. Give me one ☝️ story with pedophilia from them? You can’t cuz it’s not there. The cannibalism I guess is just Hansel and Gretchen
racyrowdyrocket well the Little Red Riding Hood, who do you think the wolf is? Hansel and Gretel is cannibalism, read between the lines.
Just like the bible Read the original Hebrew and Greek translations, I did for the last 7 years!!! Blood child sacrifice !!! What is in the middle of Churches An ALTER !!! The GoSpells !!!
I'm not sure you got this story right, Dr. Peterson. The Sleeping Beauty story appears to be a retelling of the Siegfried-Brunhilde love story as told in Norse Mythology and later retold by Wager in his Ring Cycle. I think Wagner probably saw the similarity between the various versions of of the old sagas, eddas, songs and the fairy tale of Sleeping Beauty. There is the slaying of the dragon, Fafnir, the sleeping maiden (Brunhilde) who is awakened by a kiss from Siegfried, there is the breaking of the heart of Brunhilde by Siefried (a central point of the Sleeping Beauty tale as you point out in your talk). There is the crime element of the sleep. I.e., Brunhilde is put into a sleep within a ring of fire that no normal man can pass because she disobeyed her father (Odin). Beauty is put in a sleep ringed by a forest of trees that no normal man can pass because her parents disobeyed the laws of hospitality by not inviting and therefore dishonouring the great power of that story.
I suppose I could find more parallels but hopefully the above makes it clear that there is more involved in Sleeping Beauty than the psychological elements you discuss.
It's more complex and more interesting than what this guy says indeed but he is just doing his own interpretation serving his own theories
I think he is more focused on the popular, famous Disney version of the story? This version that you mention, it is indeed very interesting (I wasn't aware of it before) and generally people are well acquainted with either the Disney version or the Grimm's version, only some bother to research more. Still, both these theories are quite interesting to learn about! It's like, the original tale is already retold by many, and then by using various perspectives, it is analysed so much!
@@parkchimchimstolemyheart Thanks for the thoughts PCCsmh. The story of Brunhilde and Siegfried is one of the greatest love stories ever told. J.R.R. Tolkien realized this and incorporated elements of the story into his Lord of the Rings. It is no small coincidence that the king of the Rohirrim, a very Viking-like people, is named Théoden (Thé from the ancient Greek meaning a god and Oden as in the god of the Norse Mythology).
Just as in Norse Mythology the valiant who died honourably in battle are taken to Valhalla so Théoden says on his death in the battlefield "I go now to the halls of my fathers in whose mighty company I shall not be ashamed" More to the point, Odin at the time of Ragnarok is mortally wounded by a supernatural force (The Fenris Wolf) just as Théoden is overcome by the 'dragon' of the king of the Nazghul.
The main theme lifted from this story by Tolkien is the ring of power. In Norse mythology an entire age will be brought down (and a new world arise) due to the war to possess this enchanted ring. Gods, men of old (the Dunedain as Tolkien called them), dwarfs and perhaps magic itself will be lost to the world (That is the purpose of Treebeard's speech in L.O.T.R., “The world is changing: I feel it in the water, I feel it in the earth, and I smell it in the air.”)
The point I'm making is this ancient story, with its origins, and therefore true purpose, hidden in time; has survived if not intact at least in spirit. It tells us something about where we came from and possibly who we are now. My real point to Dr. Peterson is he sold out that original purpose far too cheaply. Someone of his intellectual power should have been able to go deeper into the story to deal with the real symbols (archetypes). Peterson puts a lot of faith in Jungian archetypes but somehow he fell short here. Perhaps the one place in literature that he shouldn't have done that.
@@mhorram I do think that he dumbs his common lectures down with Disney stories... I haven’t read his book maps of meaning but I think the depth you’re looking for is to be found there
@@alyceGoRound Thanks for the comment sheepu and I suspect to some extent you may be right. I hold Jordan Peterson in very high regard but in this case he fell from the pedestal. Certainly what I discussed should have occurred to him and for a very definite reason. He is into Jungian archetypes and Brunhilde, Siegfried, Wotan, Albrecht, Wotan, Loge all are Jungian archetypes! I don't think it would have required too much discussion for Dr. Peterson to discuss this story in its more likely mythological underpinnings.
This is not nit picking. It is very important because these 'stories' come down to us from a people who thought mainly in terms of metaphor and symbolism. These elements are intended to hide religious 'truths' such that only the initiated can decode the symbols.
As an example, if you ask a normal person what the Iliad is about they will tell you 'It's about the Trojan War'. It isn't. Homer tells you in the first line, the poem it is about the 'Wrath of Achilles' and how that wrath brought low many heroes on both sides of the Trojan War. It isn't an angry Achilles fighting in the field that does this. It is an angry Achilles, sulking in his tent, that does this. This 20,000+ line poem is about something that has no concrete existence yet destroyed many of the best fighters of that age. That is how the ancients thought and we have to deal with that style of thinking rather than morphing that thinking to something akin to how *we* think.
I'm not sure whether or not you are interested but I dealt with a similar understanding (misunderstanding) of the Pegasus myth which only a good poet (whose actual craft deals with symbolism) can decipher to reveal the 'truth' behind the myth. The following link is to a UA-cam video uploaded by Demirep (a.k.a. Granniopteryx) who has a pretty good education; having grown up when there were real teachers in Britain! She deals with the issues involved in the Medusa Myth and statuary. I decided to chime in with some additional info which I have pasted below. [My comment was made months ago and is well down in the list. I have pasted it here in case you are interested; but don't want to go scrolling for the original comment. What I discuss, is indirectly related to what I perceive, possibly wrongly, that Jordan Peterson is doing by missing the point of the original story and providing it with one with a modern context.] ua-cam.com/video/aG7Meh5Ch30/v-deo.html
Obviously, it is best to listen to what Granniopteryx has to say and then read my comment below.
==================================
Super episode G.O. especially for someone like me who got his degree doing ancient Greek and classical Greek history. Hopefully, you won’t mind me adding some supplemental information on the story of Medusa which I think is relevant to your discussion. I remember all of what is to follow because I got into a semester-long argument with my Greek professor because I felt the Medusa story proved that the ancient Greeks had no moral compass because an innocent got terribly punished and the two malfactors (Poseidon, Athena) didn’t. Eventually, I understood what the real point of the story was. I had a very smart professor.
Medusa was a priestess of Athena who was the virgin goddess and that meant Medusa had to swear to remain a virgin so as to not desecrate the virgin goddess’s temple. Medusa was phenomenally beautiful and attracted the attention of Poseidon, who tried to rape her. She ran to Athena’s temple for sanctuary and Athena’s protection. Athena did not have the power or the authority (Poseidon was a King just like Zeus and Hades) to stop him. She also couldn’t punish him for the same reasons combined with the fact that Poseidon was her uncle. Medusa was ‘polluted’ and in sin and the ‘laws’ required her to be punished severely. That was the curse meted out to her; but there was a clever plan that Athena was concocting.
Later on, Athena advised Perseus how to dispatch the Gorgon (who really is no longer Medusa). He does and from the dead Gorgon rises Pegasus, Medusa’s spirit now purified. More to the point she is now immortal like her other two sisters (i.e., she has been rewarded for her suffering).
Perseus now uses the Gorgon head to save Andromeda, from the sea-dragon Cetus, turning it into stone. Like Medusa, Andromeda is in a pickle because of the nastiness of Poseidon (but this is not about Poseidon’s penchant for raping). It’s not clear from what has survived to us from Greek Mythology but Cetus may have been a child of Poseidon. He is, at the very least, a minion of Poseidon. So Perseus is involved in punishing Poseidon for his crime against Medusa and Athena at the beginning of the story. Everyone lives happily ever after (sort of). Clever goddess Athena.
The story of how ancient laws bring the innocent to ruin is common in Greek mythology. They usually involve one of the Olympian gods stepping in to solve the dilemma. The story of Orestes is an example. His father, Agamemnon is murdered by his mother Clytemnestra. The ancient blood laws require Orestes to kill the murderer. The same ancient blood laws require the Furies (forces from the time of the Titans) to drive anyone who murders his mother insane and as we all know: whom the gods would destroy they first make mad! So Orestes can’t win; or can he? He does murder his mother as all good sons are wont to do under these circumstances and the Furies drive him mad in preparation for this demise. Suffice it to say that Apollo comes up with a way to restore Orestes mind and placate the Furies, changing their role in morality altogether and Apollo also finds a way of handling the ancient blood laws that circumvent dilemmas like Orestes faced. Seems Apollo was just as smart as his half-sister Athena.
One of the onuses on artists is to show us a truth about which we may not be aware. The ancient poets did that because these authors were aware of the moral truths hidden within myths. The artist in your discussion, G.O., doesn’t know about these ancient truths so he’s only capable of propaganda. He has lied to us rather than revealed to us something we need to know and as you pointed out he didn’t even do a good job of that.
I want to hear this guy's take on 'Maleficent'.
He mentioned her here
@@joywebster2678 I suppose Bobsheaux meant "Maleficent" the film, rather than Maleficent the character.
I watched Frozen with my kids. I just thought have the moviemakers lost the art of storytelling or what. I have nearly stopped watching movies since then and started reading again. In Corona times I discovered an online pirate library, because our local library simply closed for more than a year. I'm not looking back since.
What is this pirate library you mentioned
great work
First idiot prince that passed by left, and she had a post traumatic episode 😂 Jordan's sense of humor is something ❤
I have already seen this i just wanted to say that you made an awesome thumbnail. Well done sir.
I have Aspergers, and my parents thought that meant they had to stop be from taking risks and being spontaneous. I remember when I was nine and my neighbor was having a garage sale; she asked if I’d like to bring some of my stuff over and share in the profits. I picked some old items I didn’t want and was going to bring them over. I didn’t care if nobody bought them - I just thought it be fun to participate and wait in anticipation. But my mom stopped me at the door and said she didn’t want me to get my hopes up that someone would but my things. I said ok, and tried to get around her to leave - but she blocked me and kept on saying that she didn’t think anyone would buy them. She was missing the point: it wasn’t the result that matter to me, but the experience. She thought she was preparing me for disappointment. But what she was really doing was damaging my sense of initiative.
Im sorry this happened to you..but you do seem like someone who despite what your parents might have done have grown up to be someone who is very self aware and I think you sound like someone who’s going to be doing just fine 😘
And I quote “Frozen,... that absolute appalling peice of trash”.... I love this guy, he’s truthful and hilarious at the same time.
Wow I had no idea what this story was actually all about! Fun to hear his symbolic take on well-known stories- puts new spin on it for me :)
I don't usually subscribe but for leaving the full video in the description i will. Keep up the great work!
Always SUCH a pleasure and insight listening to this man talks 🥺❤️❤️
I've always felt something is faintly weird and off about that frozen movie. It's like pretending what it's not. Like a face with so many masks worn on top of another.
Reminded me of the Black Mirror episode titled "Arkangel"
Shivam Kumar yeaaaah
Which season and episode is it?
I love you Jordan Peterson.
I thought this was a really good analysis of this film and I love how you were able to peel back the film's hidden lairs. I can't say this film is one of my favorites but you have given me more respect for it. I feel the film's main problem is that we as the audience are not allowed to sympathize with the hero on a personal emotional level in the same way we can with other pricesses in the other films. The story has a lot of depth to it, but in a medium such as film we the audience expect to relate with the characters on screen, and though the elements are there the movie doesn't focus enough on Aurora to feel a catharsis for her. The film focuses too much on the villain and side characters. As a fairy tale it works but as a film it's pretty week. The other films allow the audience to gain a strong connection to the princesses so that when something terrible happens we are emotionally invested enough to want the best for our hero. The analysis of themes is great, but as with all art it has to create a connection with the viewer and the limited screen time of our protagonist here makes it near impossible. But this is just my opinion
You are restructuring my thoughts all over again.
I wish you were my own father not just my teacher.
He came with the blows like Tyson!! But this is so raw and true I’m just speechless
Honestly tho, the whole reason why the princes are very present in disney movies is because they are almost always a manifestation of the princesses goals coming to fruition, it's not about being sexist. For example, the prince in snow white is there because it's a SALVATION after all the endurance and hard work she had to go through. Snow white was literally miserable for her whole life and she still managed to show a smile. The prince is basically the message that all the people in the 1930's needed. All that effort and endurance that you have to go through will one day pay off, a message that in the great depression was SUPER uplifting. And that kept people going forward
This blew my mind. I didn't realize how much imagery from Sleeping Beauty went right over my head.
Disney is the social programmer "normies" never detect until it is too late.
Some never detect all their lives. My mom still adores Disney cartoons.
I love that both he and Red from Overly Sarcastic Productions say “Goddamn dragon”
Astonishing explanation!!! Thank You!
Ir is always a pleasure listening to Jordan Peterson.
We need more of these funny thumbnail images. Im loving them. See lots of meme potential.
I only came here to say, thumbnail magic sir 🕵🏻
Pure Love for this man 🌹❤️
Absolutely brilliant!
The divine feminine and divine masculine NEED EACH OTHER.
That's just his interpretation though, as nice as it is
It's not all about knowledge,the way he articulate,he's really talented!
Jordan is Great! I wish hé stay a life and healthy and happy for many many years! He helps enorme lot of people in the world! I m grateful!
Here, I think, he base it on Neumann (1949) who said that "conciousness is maculine even in a woman".
lebambale .
Lebambale doesn't matter male or female everybody have to have a balance of masculine & feminine energy in them to live a balanced and happy life...I am sorry I don't know about Neumann(1949) but this is also one of our cultural teaching about life too.
Dang... would like to have heard the rest
Dude, That thumbnail is pure gold, lool!
This is what we are seeing with young adults 30 years and younger. That's why i have issues with everyone is a winner. Everyone must like you. None of this is realistic. You don't always get what you want in the real world. Not everyone will like you. That's ok.
2:51 sounds like the COD hit marker sound
The thumbnail is hilarious 😂
Very thought-provoking!
Love this. :)
Awh,. Sweet Aurora...
Nowdays Sleeping Beauty wakes up and cries ME TOO!
Would be funny but in the original story, Aurora actually was raped and woke up when she gave birth to triplets and one of them sucked the splinter of the wheel out of her finger..
All perspectives are perfect
Powerful!!! Thank you! ⚡
Now I need to know why he hates frozen...
He hates it because Frozen is Disney's feminist propaganda. They're saying that women don't need men. But more than that, they're saying that the whole idea of masculinity is toxic and bad. Every psychologist worth his salt knows that the masculine and feminine are both valuable, and ideally must be in balance. One complements the other, like in the Sleeping Beauty story. It's human nature. Frozen has done away with all that and thinks that human beings are blank slates that can be molded and shaped into whatever an ideology demands, dismissing the very idea of a human nature.
Maybe ur right, but I disagree. Kristof is masculine and celebrated, also he compliments Anna well and saves her plenty. Just because women in this movie are given more screen time and character development doesn’t mean that men in the eyes of Disney are perceived as evil
Don’t get me wrong tho, the twist with prince Hans was stupid
@@mollyholly3547 Kristof is a simp
@@deluxillo hate to break it to you, but humans enjoy being in a loving relationship lol
@@mollyholly3547 yeah, specially women lmao
Bless Jordan for combining his psychological knowledge with good conscience, and I also abhor the Disney movie called the ¨Frozen.¨
I had thought for a while
about what the
knight/prince fighting the dragon symbolized the most so I began researching the hidden meanings behind its age old tale.
The definitions were more than a couple so I had to look a little further to find the hidden meanings of the words used in the tale, especially the word dragon, but it was not that difficult as I love to read and enjoy doing this sort of research as a hobby the last 35 or so years.
Before I found out what I was looking for upon Dr Petersons description of the fable and how it reflects aspects of our life and how it emotionally does not prepare young ones for their life as a whole therefore the parent is not to fully coddle to shelter the child and thereby is selfishly forcing a child to live under their private dome of what seems real but it leaves the child to a great disadvantage as at some point kicking out of the nest is required that they would at such a time be prepared by experiencing the world and learning to make decisions in it with all the areas of life they will embark upon at some point hopefully somewhat better planned than sheltering them from the hard cut reality this world is.
Dragon means, clear vision
or to see clearly
and even I now clearly see
and among some other cultures the list may vary only but a little having the same expression of core cause being that of vision and its clarity.
As I held formerly the fight between the knight & dragon represented man conquering his inner lower shadow or the proverbial beast as his own lower secular nature side if self
that in the slaying it masters his inner self and thereby his life outwardly reflects that of his own obtainable higher purpose as a cause or sought after ascended self image and he now obtains a divine morality one with noble thinking and care seated in higher wisdom.
I had not learned of this depiction of the fable
so thanks Doc for sharing this, I always learn something worth looking at for life and the betterment of it.
That is a real treasure
Knight and Prince basically means one of ordain in noble cause seeking outcomes to be of virtuous deeds quests or aiding the less strong of their realm and abroad as a vow taken and learned of its valor.
If any other definition applies here Prince surely is an appointed nobleman and in royalty seats as the title is bestowed upon him from either one or both parents being rulers as king and queen or royalty of a lineage tradition or otherwise appointed of an empire and or kingdom.
As is pretty simple
dragon was the intriguing word I found enlightened by
and enjoyed the homework to find out why.
3.27 was every thing. Frozen an appaulling piece of rubbish
Hey, curious why so?
I really enjoy that part!
👏👏👏
I liked its "Let it Go" song (less than a lot of girls singing it to each other in front of their lockers between classes oof) but for the rest, I agree, and its sequel proves that point
Jess Klem the movies are entertaining and parts are good, but the underlying message or lesson is more of nothing than something
@Deaddog67 hey again, whats toxic about it really? It asks you to own your fears or thats what i thought. I have only seen the 1st part (under compulsion)
Are you talking about Sleeping Beauty or Bella Swan?
This is right on!
This man is so interesting! A great storyteller. The world is complex, messy, and so interesting.
"that's why Disney made frozen that absolutely appalling piece of rubbish"
😂😂😂 This man is a genius
I had no idea Frozen was so atrocious. That song, “Love is an Open Door,” was a great and honest take on people jumping into love too fast. I thought Elsa was a woman threatened by love, and also the conflict women experience between money (ice) and love. I’m so confused by you Jordan Peterson. Why is your interpretation or opinion so spot-on? Does any piece of art only send one message? I mean, my god...
I’m loving these thumbnails, really creative and funny🤣👍
Excellent analysis.