The SCIENCE Of The 'Bonus Soft Sell' in College Football 25 Dynasty
Вставка
- Опубліковано 2 гру 2024
- I feel like I am CONSTANTLY going after a recruit with 65 potential hours to spend on him. However, what do I do after the hard sell? Should I throw 25 hours on friends and family? Or should I combine a 20 hour soft sell with a 5 hour social media?
Well, today I set out to answer that question for all of my CFB 25 dynasties!
--------------
--------------
Don’t forget to subscribe for more data-driven tips on CFB 25!
#CFB25 #CollegeFootball25 #BallStateChronicles #RecruitingWalkthrough #Top25Class #CFB25Tips #Gaming #Football #SportsGaming #DynastyMode #Recruiting #CFB25Dynasty #CFBDynasty #cfbrevamped
The only CFB25 channel using science, and thus the only one I subscribe to. My thanks, Max!
Heck yeah, thank you for the kind words!!
Ditto. Had a 30 year cpu vs cpu dynasty. Now on year 6 of 2nd time. I will only hard sell. And only on recruits with all A's.
Dramatically increased small schools ability recruit
For anyone that needs it, below are all the scenarios that equal 33 points including the examples Max showed in the video:
A+, A+, C+
A+, A, B-
A+, A-, B
A, A, B
A, A-, B+
A-, A-, A-
Great video man. You've gained a subscriber.
heck yeah, thanks for the kind words and for helping out in the comments!
My favorite CFB25 channel. Thank you for all your effort, we really appreciate it.
Thanks for watching!!! Selfishly these experiments help me a TON in my own dynasty, so might as well share!
Love it! I had a hunch with this during my North Texas rebuild and stopped doing the soft sell with the hard sell and went to adding friends and family. That changed the recruiting game for me. I also learned to only hire coordinators with recruiting and motivator archetypes only. That way you can increase recruiting bonuses, off season player progression, and bonus XP gains from players getting drafted. I have built an absolute dynasty with the Mean Green.
Heck yeah, good to hear this validated in the real world of dynasties !
This probably has nothing to do with this video, but my absolute favorite thing about CFB25 is first recruiting, and the absolute difference you can tell from an elite roster, mid roster, and a trash roster. They’ve made it that much more important to have better players, because you can feel it on the field. Just like real life. 😊
Yea I’m at the point of my dynasty where I can dominate the MAC conference but when I make the the CFP I’m struggling against everyone else. I matched up against Georgia and Oregon back to back years and you can feel the difference
100%, that’s the biggest difference maker compared to Madden IMO
You’re a freaking boss.
Now I’m wondering how sway interest compares to soft sell.
Happy to help! And yeah, seems like everyone has Sway top of mind, which is convenient bc I know NOTHING there
This is a fascinating result. I wonder if we could set up an experiment that could let us evaluate the influence of the green check mark grades vs the red check mark grade, since I have been assuming they have different influence factors--but I now realize I don't have any evidence to back that up.
Interesting idea, would selling 3 X A+ grades be better than selling the three check marks with the 19 points
Max the Football Science Guy! 🧬
I’m not even in the same STRATOSPHERE as the GOAT Mr. Bill, but I appreciate it!
Hey Max. Love your videos always.
Quick question, or maybe a request, but maybe do a coach abilities tier list / build. Like a Saban like build? Or how to get the most out of players? Struggling to get my players high overall. I user motivator and architect and all but still struggling.
Thanks for the support! Since I’ve been so deep into Ball State, I haven’t really touched coach builds much - but I think @FendlerYT has done quite a bit of content in that space
awesome video, love to see claims backed by experiments and data! just curious, why do you plot by categories like "soft sell worse" or "do not soft sell" rather than basing it off of how many influence green arrows it had? or how do you measure numerically (and not categorically) the influence an action has?
You literally turned me into a recruiting god in online dynasty 💪🏾🔥
Heck yeah, glad I could help!!!
Id love to know how much master recruiter can affect these outcomes. The problem I face is when the recruit only allows for 60 hours and I am forced to decide whether to soft sell or do social media and DM the player which leaves me at 55 hours. Does the extra 5 hours on the soft cell and the bonus from master recruiter offset the penalty?
Thank you! I have been waiting for someone to finally test this out 😊
Glad it was helpful!
I don’t own a console to play this game-I play vicariously through the UA-camrs I watch-but I still enjoyed this a lot.
Wow, for someone to enjoy this video without even running a dynasty is super sick to hear!! Thanks for the support!
First off, appreciate the videos and all of the hard work. Definitely a fan and I'm dominating my leagues recruiting year after year. My question, when will sway ever be useful and does that impact similar to a soft sell? Ive tried it a few times when I was on the outside looking in on a recruit late in the year and wanted to overcome some bad grades to get a hard and soft sell but it always takes 2-3 weeks to unlock those extra green checks and sometimes they never unlock. What's your thoughts? Community welcome to answer as well.
It works just not often. At least not for me
This makes me wonder if swaying in the top 5 would be worth it to give yourself a chance at another interest that way you can hard and soft sell all interests.
That’s almost certainly why this change was made; peviously sways were completely useless. I’ve been using them very effectively the last 3 seasons of my online dynasty with friends cause I haven’t leaked my sauce yet
Great work. I have a time consuming science video idea. How valuable are physical abilities versus pure overall rating? Getting 4-5 years into a dynasty. Is there a scientific way to pick between an 80 rated player with 3 gold physical abilities and an 86 with no abilities? I’ve started adding 1 point for each bronze, 2 points for silver and so on. So in my example that’s 89 versus 86. Would be interesting to sim the same season and see stat results using save points. May be way too many variables but would be interesting to optimize.
A new season just started in my online dynasty so this is perfect timing
awesome!! check out the rest of the 'getting better at cfb 25' videos on recruiting for some more helpful tips!
Love this bro, appreciate your effort. This is top tier content
Thanks for watching and for the kind words!
Im suprised at your findings because in my own personal tests i found that if the two green check grades are around 22 or above its more valueable to soft sell. Will have to revisit
Interesting!! Would love to learn more from you at maxplayscfb@gmail.com
However one interesting note - if your 2 green checks sum up to 22, that’s an average of 11. If you extend that out to the red x and assume it’s equally as good, all of a sudden you’re at a total of 33. That’s super close to my findings of 33-35 in this one considering all 3 grades!!
Ever think about doing a study on the probabilities of gem/bust/normal 5, 4, &3 stars having what dev trait, overall, skill caps, & badges?
Actively working on answering “can we predict what overall a player is knowing just their star level and position” !! Ideally I’ll make a public calculator that anyone can use
@ dude that’d be sick! Great content
Great stuff. Thanks Max!
No prob, thanks for watching!!
Usually when you are a smaller tiered school, you sometimes have some time when you get 3 green checks. If you find out you are good on your grades, does it make sense to soft sell for one week, try and sway for a week and if you get lucky, hard sell and soft sell for when those larger schools start recruiting those hidden gems they try and swipe away?
This makes sense why i have thought recruiting has been easy at fresno st...i never did thr double sell...every year o have a top 15 recruiting class since seeing your first video about how to not waste time on recruits that wont sign to a small school.
Interesting, glad to hear this finding is being replicated in the real dynasties too, and that’s sick that my videos have helped!!!
Great video, though I'm wondering how Soft Sell compares to doing DM + Social Media when you only have 60 hours to spend on a player, and what the threshold would be for that to be effective.
Yeah good call - I’m guessing the soft sell would be better if you have like a B/B+ average, but difficult to be confident without doing another experiment🤣🤣
I find soft sell really useful when I’m down to two possible pitches. I will soft sell both as a way to reveal the third check without any real penalty. A week later, I can hard sell on the winning pitch.
Oh wow that’s really smart - I may need to steal that strategy
I hope EA rewards your work with some sort of statistically themed play calls. Like an Excel formation or a Deviation defense.
the ultimate reward would be a bit of time with the developers so i could ask them some questions when CFB 26 comes out LMAO!!! maybe, just maybe, we can pull it off
I wanna know how effective soft sell is vs hard sell. As a smaller school being able to put points towards more recruits using soft would be awesome. Or even using soft sell to make points to schedule visits since they are so effective now.
ah yeah that's a good question
Desperately hoping for some feedback on a situation I'm currently facing. I have a guy who I've been using 55 hours every week on. 40 hard sell 10 dm and 5 social media. He's on a visit this week with the second place team. I'm about 80% to commit and they are about 50% but I can easily see them filling the bar with the visit. My current pitch doesn't look like it's quite enough to fill my bar. But my influence per pitch is 5+1 3 2. The friends and family (25) shows that it will only yield 3 influence. So on paper, it will cost me 10 more hours for 2 less influence. Should I believe the paper or go with friends and family because it's still just more hours?
Great vid as always. Question (not sure if you touched on it in your hard sell vid): does the dealbreaker have any outsized impact on the efficacy of the pitches as compared to the other 2 green check interests?
So I explicitly looked at dealbreakers when doing the initial hard sell video and couldn’t really find much evidence that they matter *more* than other pitches, so I haven’t looked at it since
However that was a couple months ago (and 2 title updates ago at this point), so honestly it may be worth looking into again
Ok here's my question because I don't know who to ask.... when you send the house you just leave it there? Or do you leave send the house until you have the letter grades then take the points off send the house and hardsell... I'd appreciate more clarity on the order to do these things and for how long to keep them... I'm in a full user LG.... so the information would be helpful when competing against the top tier teams in recruitment
Just to make sure I understand this correctly, use friends and family unless the 3 pitches of the soft sell equal over 33 points regardless if one is red?
Should W/L also be factored into this equation? Love the initial thought but soft selling with a bad grade on a loss would probably not be as effective as it would be on a win. I wasn’t sure if you just forced win every week. I wonder if winning/losing is congruent or completely its own little bonus/penalty each week.
Good call. So I did not account for W/L and left it totally up to chance. However, I had no idea W/L was a factor in sells! I thought it was only for visits? Do we know for sure that sells are impacted by if you win the game? (Outside of prospect grades changing like championship contender)
The AI does do the softsell with 2 green checks and 1 red X and then a hard sell with 3 green checks. I've been doing a bunch of auto recruiting while operating 8-10 teams at a time in my offline dynasty and I'm seeing the AI do that a LOT now. I don't know why or if they did this way before. It was what made me click this video wondering if maybe the AI was doing something I wasn't.
Have you done a video on Sways? I always wondered if you are losing a battle if you tried to sway to override the other users hard sell. I know you will go further behind for a few weeks but I wonder if a hard sell after a sway could push you past them
I have not even TOUCHED sways just bc of all the other creators saying they were trash way back in July. Has anyone had success with it that I can go learn from?
@@maxplayscfb unfortunately the only successes I’ve seen are quick videos on UA-cam (I never get to see if they can sign them after using a few weeks to sway) and Reddit post. In theory if I can use both Hard and Soft sells one 1 recruit I should be able to catch up and pass in recruiting but we have so many users in our leagues I’m afraid to try it and waste hours/weeks.
@@maxplayscfbthe only success I’ve had on sways are when let’s say after a week of hard selling a kid there’s still another school neck and neck with me I’ll pair my hard sell with a sway if there’s another combination that includes 2 of his interests with good grades and another he isn’t interested in currently also with a good grades. Then if the sway works I’ll pair both hard and soft sell. Only works if you have 70+ recruiting hours for said player. That way you’re hard and soft selling 2 different pitches all with 3 green checkmarks
So if you’re at a good school with mostly A- and better soft sell for two greens and hard selling for 3 is worth it.
Yup!
Can you do a deep dive on the sway mechanic and tell us how it functions and when to use it.
Lotsssss of comments on sway today - it may be time to actually look into it!
@maxplayscfb before the 1st update I was in the commit stage against texas with Colorado and a lv 1 created coach. I was given a 20hr sway( it said 30 but counted as 20) with a 40hr hard sell in a losing battle and Texas pulled its scholarship(after I advanced the week) and the hours maybe.( They didn't move past this point in recruiting) I won the recruit the next week.
@maxplayscfb I've also tried sway and soft sell together b4 the 1st title update and it won the the recruit but after the title update it lost the next recruit.
If you manage to get to 70 points per player, hard sell and sway so you can effectively hard sell and soft sell
can we get up to 70? i thought it was capped at 65
Have you considered doing soft sell and social media one that’s 5 hours as that’s a more even 25-25 hour comparison?
That’s actually what I did here! I tried to mention that at the start of explaining the experiment but only referred to it as “the soft sell” after that for simplicity’s sake
My assumption was always that it would consider all of the grades in the pitch you're throwing, but it would weight the results higher if it was something the player had a check mark in. Did you check anything along those lines?
Data! Graphs!
Football!
My 3 fav things
Is it possible to determine the weight between the green and red check marks? Like red is maybe half the points of a green checkmark value with the same letter grade.
So that was what I initially looked for, and they are weighted *almost* the same!! Like there’s a 5% difference, but it was likely due to the somewhat random nature and small sample size of this experiment
Bro I changed to just doing hours. No sells sways or pitches and I’ve been landing the best classes ever. Just give max points to all my prospects in order or highest interest first get them signed asap and move down the line. No thinking or guess work.
And no visits unless it’s offseason but that’s only bc I just have so many hours left
What about Also remove all the hours on the recruit and then move him to the top spot on the board the hard sell the ideal pitch and then soft sell on it as well would this be better than friends and family?
I’m confused. The place they are on your recruiting board doesn’t change anything and you also can’t hard and soft sell on the same exact pitch. It’ll be locked out once you use the hard sell on it. Your only other option will be soft selling on 2 interest pitch or swaying him and then you can hard and soft sell on 2 different pitches that both have 3 interests
@ If you take all the hours of of them then move them to the top of the board then you can hard and soft sell on the same pitch.
@@TreyAbernathy wait what? Is this a glitch or is this an intended feature lmao
@@TreyAbernathy wait what? Is this a glitch or is this an intended feature lmao
@@user-ix1gu9te6i Yeah not sure Lmao.
Any helldivers see the gunship factory out his window?
So am I understanding correctly that I should always soft sell with my 5-star program with almost all A grades?
Kinda - you should do the “2 green check mark” soft sell as an extra action on TOP of the hard sell with the 3 green check marks, assuming all your grades are solid since you’re an elite program
But the most critical part is that hard sell with their ideal pitch, especially in your case where you have great grades
Sway first… flip the red X to ✅. Then u have a hard sell and soft sell with 6 ✅
Ahhhhhhhhhhh that is smart
Regarding the editor's note at 4:13: Buddy, we've all been there.
Glad to know it’s not just me
How does sway work?
It’s supposed to help change what the ideal pitch is but frankly I NEVER touch it
Where’s the best run play video?
So we hit 40 responses last night (almost 1,000 plays to sample!) so hoping to look into it over the next week!
For me, even if there are only two green checks I will go with hard or soft sell because each three green checks have two options and I just pick the one that is not red. I'm not sure if this is correct but it has worked for me. I love your channel. I use your method of the higher than 21 points for hard sell. Sometimes it works snd sometimes not although I know there are tons of different factors for it to work perfectly.
Ohhh spicyyy
I never saw that potential hours clock before. You learn something new everyday
Yup I really did NOT see this one coming, that’s why I want to investigate further
Did you guys see they nerfed recruits across the board 😢
Which vids/creators have talked about that? I saw talk online about that but tbh I haven’t looked into it enough to have a strong opinion
@@maxplayscfb I saw t4g make a vid and Poodle I think? But tbh I've noticed it too just in my gameplay. I recruited three five star wrs and they all had 0 traits and started as a 70 overall. They weren't busts either lol
My biggest question is when should you ever Sway?? 🧐
If someone finds out the answer, let me know because I NEVER do currently
Did you add the 5 hours of sending a dm to make the hours equal? Great video btw, appreciate your work
Yup!! Can’t remember the name of the action but I did 20 hr soft sell + 5 hr regular actions
And thanks for the kind words!! Glad other people enjoy these as much as I do!!
Seems like you might better off trying to sway if you can put 70 hours on a recruit
Due to never even trying sway once, I am legally required to avoid expressing any opinion on the sway mechanic🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@maxplayscfb I think i've swayed twice in about 35 seasons across 4 dynasties. this makes me want to try it on any recruit where i can add 70 hours.
I'm not legally required not to say anything.
Sway isn't worth the expense unless done early in the process. Very early. Only then does it make up for the cost. And that's if it works.
Best I can tell you need 6 more weeks of recruiting, to break even on the cost on average.
@@maxplayscfb WE NEED THE DATA THO
I’ve never once did soft sell and hard sell. One thing I’ve never heard any creators mention is that if a recruit has a deal breaker which is all 4 and 5 Stars then that is always one of their likes. Always. So if he likes proximity to home and coach stability. But you haven’t unlocked his other pitch. But he has a deal breaker for championship contention that’s his third pitch every time. That’s normally how I’m able to hard sell them before unlocking all 3 pitches
You haven’t seen anyone talk about it cause that point was beaten to death when the game first came out. It’s just assumed everyone knows at this stage…
Worst game ever made!
Def has its flaws, but I personally think CFB15 - CFB24 were the worst games of all time because they didn’t even exist!! This is way better than that
@maxplayscfb you're dumb.
Cue that Lo-fi! 🤌
Heck yeah, it’s called “60 min awesome lofi loop” on my computer, fav thing to add every time
Hey what’s up, I love your videos, I own a software company and have an amazing Idea for you😂😂😂 message me back me. You are what the community is missing. I’m not a robot in case you are wondering!
Could you email me at maxplayscfb@gmail.com?
@@maxplayscfb just saw your reply, I emailed you from jcarterjo