Hello and welcome to the comments section! A few people are pulling me up on saying this is 'Australia's longest railway tunnel,' so a little clarification is in order: I should have added "excluding urban underground railways." I actually meant to put that in, but forgot for some reason. There are obviously several urban underground commuter lines with tunnels longer than this. The reason I make this distinction is that urban underground lines exist for a fundamentally different purpose than traditional railway tunnels: Underground lines are generally aimed at expanding service coverage and passenger catchment in dense urban areas, where an above ground alignment isn't possible. On the other hand, traditional railway tunnels fundamentally exist to get the line under hills and mountains. To be fair, Skitube falls into a little bit of a grey area here given it has underground stations, but the main purpose of the tunnel is still to get underneath a jolly big mountain, so that's the category I was throwing it in.
You've missed the most important fact of all - The Ski Tube Olympics!!! Worked in Perisher in the early 2000's and occasionally staff would try the Ski Tube Olympics on the ride down after the mountain was closed. The object was to get from one end of the carriage to the other without touching the floor. You could only use the crush barriers and the single poles in between. And if you wanted to try it in 'Pro Mode' you needed to go over the first crush barrier, and under the next and repeat this down the carriage! Fun times!!!
I genuinely thought RM transit got Austria and Australia mixed up when he talked about this in one of his videos! Despite being a gunzel I hadn't actually heard of it, which was crazy to me considering how cool it looks to me...
I'm a transport nerd, and I grew up in NSW in the 80s, but I still didn't hear about this until that RM Transit video. I suppose that at the time, all the transport news was about plans for the airport tunnel in Sydney and filling the gap between Glenfield and East Hills. I wish NSW's rail network was a little more Swiss, though, even though NSW is 20 times the size.
It really is quite amazing how little known it is! Maybe less so now that it's getting a bit of youtube coverage. I knew about it more from my bushwalking/camping interest than from the railfan world.
I know it's not that well known, but I'm a little surprised there's any train/transport enthusiasts in Australia that didn't know about it. I'm not really sure how I knew about it, but I remember news of its construction in the 80s, and have certainly known of its existence before began operations. It did appear in a number of books on Australian railways back then, and no doubt the usual magazines, but I rarely bought magazines then. But to this day, I've still not visited.
I worked two seasons as a concourse attendant on the ski tube, in 2008 and 2009, and this was a very interesting video even being pretty familiar with the Skitube - I definitely didn't know that the 40kph limit uphill was actually more like 34kph. A few other bits of info I recall from my time there; The tube typically starts operating in May, after a period of testing. This is to accommodate the influx of seasonal workers on the mountain, although on a very reduced schedule, and for staff only. Similarly it continues into the second or third week of October, as the mountain is still busy with closure work, and the possibility of heavy spring snowfalls is very real, which can lead to the road being closed very quickly. Emergency stops on that rack are no joke either - from full speed uphill to dead stopped in ~2m was the number I recall, and the two I experienced definitely felt like it. To my knowledge, 'rail-kill' just doesn't happen on the tube - it is too slow and loud to have a chance of sneaking up on even the sleepiest wombat. I have no real way of saying the maximum occupancy of each car, but they were truly jam packed at times. Luggage and carts were banned during peak hours and it was standing room only, with punters often turned away to wait for the next train. During the off-peak (both pre/post season, and during the middle of the day in the regular season) the passing loop is not used, and the Bullocks to Perisher train runs on a single 4-car shuttle. In the evenings, past around 7pm, the 4-car sets are stabled, and the 3-car that usually runs the blue cow leg, runs as a shuttle through the entire line, from Bullocks to Blue Cow and return. I worked a second job in the evenings on the mountain, and there was no longer or colder wait than the deathly hour it took for the train to make its way downhill and back up again if you missed it. I believe the last departure from bullocks was at 1am, 'on request', effectively for staff such as the graveyard shift of snowmakers, as well as some of the bakers and kitchen staff making their way to work. There is also a rack-rail service vehicle with pantograph lift to allow servicing of the overheads, and I have a hunch that there may actually be two of the flat cargo wagons. The shunting engine is occasionally (possibly permanently?) in Thomas the Tank Engine colours as well. In the short decline after the Perisher valley terminal, before the incline to Blue Cow starts, an exit to the outside is blasted in the right hand wall, leading up a short adit to a portal on the hillside just after the creek. This was used to effect the removal of spoil from the Blue Cow tunnelling operation, and buses were run up the tunnel to transport workers to the top terminal during its construction. This portal was (at least during my time) trained as a possibility for emergency evacuation should a fire in the Skitube terminal upstairs necessitate removal of passengers from the platform, albeit very impractical in the dark, with tripping hazards everywhere. It was one of the best jobs on the mountain, as the railway operates under State Rail governance and awards, giving very reasonable base pay, and shift length limits. The drivers and engineers were often some of the longest-serving employees on the mountain. Finally, if you want a ride but can't afford the ticket price, the leg between Perisher valley and Blue Cow is not formally ticketed, being included (depending who you ask) in the park entry fee, or the lift ticket price. There are no ticket gates at Perisher Valley or Blue Cow. A quick drive up the mountain and a day pass for ne car would be much cheaper than the day return ticket. Indeed, lodge visitors (who generally must leave their cars at bullocks flat) often drive their group and luggage to the top and draw straws to see which unlucky bugger has to return the car to bullocks flat and catch the tube up.
Hi Pip, the Ski-tube minced a dear this year at the snow season. Maybe rail-kill is rare but not unheard of 😔 Don't know if there is any off peak time anymore, the season was flat out the whole time 😵
You forgot to mention the most important thing about this railway: the miniature cinnamon donuts at the Perisher Station! So much nostalgia wrapped up in those small rings of dough, the smell of cinnamon mixing with the smell of the snowmelt as you ride back down the mountain. They'd better not ever shut that donut shop!
I actually broke my wrist skiing in Australia- but turning up in Sydney with a case full of ski gear raised a few eyebrows - I was so sooo tempted to say ‘is the capital not Vienna’ but I’m not sure customs anywhere has a sense of humour
Bruce Leaver As the national parks manager of the project I can confirm the concept and driver was Ken Bilston. The reason that it was not extended to Jindabyne was cost. The project was entirely privately funded. It initially relied on winter closure of Kosciusko Road but that was not tenable. That is why Blue Cow was added as rail only access, to enhance viability. The reason the Blue Cow tunnel in was blasted not drilled was the hardness of the granite.
You mentioned that there's almost no public transport access to the Skitube from elsewhere, but actually, there was a trial bus service this year that ran between Jindabyne and the Bullocks Flat terminal several times a day, and another route between Jindabyne and Thredbo. It'll be interesting to see if this is made permanent.
Yep, and the greyhound service is hit and miss at times too, often terminating at Jindabyne. It was mostly used by employees who live on the mountain, and the very occasional (and unusual) guest who was willing to fork out big bucks for a lodge bed, but didn't want to hire a car.
Thanks for the in-depth video. I’ve been using the Ski Tube or as it’s just known as the Tube since when it opened as a kid. In 88’ maybe it was 87 to get to Blue Cow they had busses running in the tunnel from Perisher Terminal as the track hadn’t been laid. Also in the early days, the trains use to run all the way to Blue Cow, so you didn’t have to get off, if you wanted to go the whole way. Another tid bid of info, the Blue Cow terminal was built in its location so it couldn’t be seen from Mt Kosci or the Main Range. Honestly it should have been built a little further down as it’s location makes it hard to get back to from lower down, especially the beginner chair, but this was part of the environmental agreement. With skis and boards, when it’s less busy. Often people lay them down on the ground at those crush barriers the other times you are jammed packed in holding your skis/boards. They should’ve built the second tunnel. We are now back at the original issue as this year showed. Often the Kosci Road has been closed by 9am to traffic up the hill. Edit* If you don’t want to pay the outrages prices and just want to ride a small portion of it. The Perisher to Blue Cow leg is free. No electronic gates unlike down at Bullocks Flat. Thanks again, you actually taught me some things.
@@jswatts1967 that's what I have been trying to work out myself as well. I remember the tunnel exit at perisher. Platform must not have been installed properly or the storage area to the right.
I did a season in Jindy working up the mountain in Thredbo and to me without a car, the tube was the most frustrating thing due to its massive unfulfilled potential! I spent the entire time imagining how much better it would be if: -it continued on without rack to Jindabyne (at 40kmh the onward journey would only be another 30min, at 60 kmh only 20min so much faster than driving in peak) -it had 5 minute frequencies in the peaks rather than 20min at present (obviously need much more double track and passing loop, and you mention in your vid there were proposals to double-track the entirety which would have been amazing) -it had branches to Thredbo and Charlottes Pass. Creates good local jobs, massive boost for the town of Jindabyne, improves air quality, lowers GHG emissions, lowers roadkill and ecological footprint (those roads are littered with animal carcasses June-October), lowers road maintenance needs, massively lowers risk of accidents on roads. Even if you just built passing loop B and ordered new rolling stock to improve frequencies to 5 or 10 minutes in the peak; and offered a reliable regular inclusive bus service (can also service Thredbo) that would be massive.
I was going to say the same thing. If it had run from Jindabyne with those branches there would have been enough traffic to justify a higher frequency of service. Importantly, I thought that the Bullocks Flat terminus was in exactly the wrong spot. The upside of having a rail system would have been to be able to avoid all roads that might require chains. To put the terminal in the other side of a Ridge that can require chains made me think bugger it, if I hav3 to struggle with chains I might as well drive up to perisher carpark. Which is what I've done for decades.
@@BigBlueMan118 I honestly don't think there's any chance that extending the line to Jindabyne could ever happen due to cost, environmental impact, long term outlook for the ski industry, etc. The cost of the fare is very high so any additional development of the line would only make it less accessible to skiers. We were really excited about the project when it was first being proposed in the 70s (if I remember correctly) but it just didn't serve my needs. I've used it a lot but compared to being able to take all your gear in the car, a change of clothes, lunch goodies, and being able to dump tired kids into the back seat for a midday nap, etc etc, it just never stacked up. What's your experience?
@@lowend5566 The point about the tired kids is always a big one, it's hard to argue against that one. Cost is much to high, no doubt about it - cost should be significantly reduced, a bus service brought in to service it & thredbo with proper pricing signals for travellers & drivers. I honestly think a good bus service turning up every 10 minutes in Jindy between 7-10am and 3-7pm (and hourly outside that) heading to the Tube and Thredbo would be a game changer. But the environmental impact of putting a single-track electrified line in alongside the road (with a couple of minor bridges & tunnels) wouldn't actually be significant at all in my opinion, most of the way from Bullocks is just livestock paddocks anyway. I am actually an environmental scientist by trade and I can't square that one. The fact they keep extending the overflow carparks which keep overfilling and STILL haven't brought in a bus service is insane We need to slash emissions too, emissions need to come down by at least half in the next 8 years to stop catastrophic global warming, we have legally binding agreements on this, so I really don't see how the current situation of 1000s of cars streaming into the park constantly can continue if we are serious about our responsibilities. Would love to see the tube extended!
@@BigBlueMan118 I agree with extending the line to Jindabyne and Thredbo but I just can't see the various environmental lobbies giving it a free pass. The land resumption cost wouldn't be huge and if they wanted to cheap out a two element system would be cheaper, friction line then an interchange at Bullocks to the existing skitube. I'm not an engineer but I figure that designing a line that has both friction and rack on the same cars sounds expensive and complex. As big an issue is the decline of these resorts as destinations for high value skiers. The high value skiers commonly go to Japan, Europe and the USA which back in the early 70s when I started skiing in the area was for tge very well healed indeed. Visit Niseko or Hakuba in Japan and it's as Aussie as Smiggins, though with better food, snow, cheaper tickets and easy access. Sure, there's the flight costs but that's not as important to high value clients as good, reliable snow and a little bit of a foreign holiday, an "experience" rather than just a trip to the snowies. That's all to say that as the snow quality declines in Australia those who are prepared to pay for the $180pd lift ticket and the $110 skitube will become a very rare breed. Once they leave the resorts the low value clients will baulk at the cost and go for the cheapest options leading to lower ridership ... etc. That's not to say that Australian skiing is dead, I've been hearing that for 40 years or more, but with more palatable "experiences " (skiing AND tourism) on offer its only a matter of time.
True story, while enjoying a skiing holiday in 1987, I asked my Father if we might use the Skitube. He said it was too expensive for tickets. So we drove up the mountain with snowchains on the tyres, parked the car in the parking lot, went skiing. My Father unfortunately did'nt put any antifreeze in the cooling system, which was common back then here in Australia. Plain water freezes at temperatures under zero of course, so there was a cracked radiator when we got back. Skitube would've been a lot cheaper!
My favourite trick is to get the front seat going downhill and then wait until the tiny distant ‘light at the end of the tunnel’ eventually appears, then to watch it slowly get bigger. There really is a light at the end of the tunnel on ski tube.
I actually rode on this in 2019 I think when I was only 12 and I loved my time there as to this day it is the only time I have experienced snow. On top of that one morning the train broke down, they told us it was an electrical fault but I’m pretty sure it was the cog getting jammed in the rack rail. We got towed back to the station and all had to pile on a train half the size of ours and with twice as many people. That was also the only time a mode of transport that I was on broke down with me on it. But I still had the time of my life, highly recommended.
Rode it many years ago when it was fairly new as part of a school excursion to the snowies. Very cool piece of infrastructure and a great explanation of how it works and why it's there. Some good memories. Thanks.
I use it multiple times every year. The Perisher to Blue Cow section is technically one of the lifts and is covered with every lift pass. For 2023 the Skitube add-on to the Epic Pass is $169 and gives unlimited travel between Bullocks and Perisher. The first season it only opened to Perisher and buses were used between Perisher and Blue Cow.
I’ve always found this piece of infrastructure fascinating and made my own video about it a couple of months ago, A Victorian version was proposed from Harrietville to Mt Hotham but sadly no action was taken, nice video.
Shame they didn't build the Hotham one, that would be great! I just saw your video in the last couple of days, great job. It's cool we have so many people making Aussie transport content now!
@@darylcheshire1618 That's annoying :-( A few years ago I needed to travel from Wangaratta to Omeo via public transport, and there's just no public transport at all over that ridge --- I ended up having to hire a car
Fun fact! I’ve just worked the ski season in perisher and learned the line was once planned to go all the way into Jindabyne! There’s even a plot of land called ‘the station’ which has since been repurposed into a hotel area. The line was planned fo be built after the completion of the initial ski tube ‘park and ride’ and a line through Canberra to Sydney was even pitched to the government as a wider transport link possibility! Obviously, this was never completed, but as someone who went from Jindabyne to Perisher daily for 4 months I really don’t know why!
Skitube was one of the rack railways I had limited information about, thank you for putting together a nice overview of the railway. I train drivers on the Manitou and Pikes Peak cog railway in the US, it's always cool to see how it works in other places.
Great video, and definitely on my bucket list. A bit of insight as to why the motor cars are generally placed downhill: if the motor car was uphill, then it would be pulling the rest of the carriages. In doing so you could run into strength issues with the coupler having to pull 7 trailer cars full of people. If the motor is downhill then it is pushing the 7 carriages, and the coupler can better handle the compressive strength (compared to tension in the uphill configuration).
My wife did a whole heap of the drafting work for this as she worked for SMEC (Snowy Mountains Engineering Corporation) in Cooma. It was back in the days when drafting was still done with ink and paper as CAD was in early days.
Got to ride this back when I was 13 on a school ski trip in 2001. Definitely was pretty cool that Perisher had this train - was a bit of a novelty thing for us rural school kids to do, skiing and taking this train up and down the mountain ☺️
In the 90's I was working for Philips Communications; we designed and installed the two-way radio system for that train and tunnel. Being in the middle of the tunnel with me and just the driver, he turned off all the lights, so dark.
Ive always wondered how they got two way comms piped up the tunnels. Do they use one giant run of leaky antenna cable like cellular carriers do or do you just point a bunch of yagis up from the bilston portal and then repeaters in the curves?
@@lukewalker3905 you nailed it, they use a low profile antenna on the train, and a slotted leaky coax on a continuous run, and yagi's for the entry and exists. I think also a repeater at the mid point. It was a Philips system and they used some subtone system on it, (that was a pain to work on).
I'm a snow skiier, and was regular there before Skitube, and every year thereafter. I recall the opening season for Blue Cow, with buses obtained from Hobart running in the tunnel. A blasting accident had delayed completion by a year. People were sceptical that the line would be a white elephant. Instead, it was successful beyond predictions, and had the problem of constrained capacity. The stations couldn't be lengthened. The basic operational pattern was changed. It had been three 3-car sets, crossing before the tunnel, and at Perisher. That was changed to the pattern in this video: two four-car sets, crossing below the tunnel, and terminating at Perisher (hanging off the platform at each end), with a two-car shuttle beyond. That was made feasible by Perisher taking over Blue Cow and Guthega, so that a lot of skiers could use the ski lifts rather than the railway to interchange. The railway did run all year round for the first many years, taking picnickers and walkers to the top. A lot of public transport to the region is for skiers who are staying at the resorts, and they make a one-way transfer midday. Likewise, for people staying for a week, it is fashionable to dine at the different locations, and the Blue Cow restaurant trades into the evening. For several years, ARHS ACT ran a summer inspection of the line and its facilities. The diesel shunter ran the wagon with platform seats to Thredbo River for the lunch stop. The road to Bullocks Flat is usually clear for vehicles without chains being needed. The Perisher road often requires chains, or is closed. Having driven 7 hours from Sydney, NSW drivers hate fitting chains. Another part of the whole package was the building of a mega village at Jindabyne, capable of holding 40 bus groups. They would then bus to Skitube each day.
G'day Martin, just stumbled across this clip while enjoying a quiet Cup Day at home keeping warm and catching up with a backlog of UA-cam clips. You have done a great job on this one. I was fortunate to ride Skitube all the way to Blue Cow and back many years ago when they ran an hourly service during summer and the fare wasn't so eyewatering as it appears now. Several years ago (summer before COVID), I did an anticlockwise road trip from Melbourne through Gippsland to Cooma, returning via Corryong and Alexandra and called in at Bullocks Flat for a general snoop while passing by. While I was walking along the bitumen sealed footpath from the end of the car park near the rear of the workshop, the bitumen suddenly moved and hissed at me. The resultant Irish Jig, adrenaline rush and rapid heart beat caused some amusement to a pair of security guards who came out of the station to investigate why I was wandering in the vicinity during a non-running day. I think the Red Bellied Black Snake got as much of a fright as I did as it careered between my hopping legs and disappeared into the scrub behind me off path. Hope this gives you a chuckle or two. I'm sure we will all have to be snake conscious this summer as many would have been displaced by the recent floods. Take care out your way along the Diamond Creek Trail. I walked the fully renovated trail on a brilliant sunny weekday back in early August prior to the Hurstbridge Wattle Festival. Hopefully, Council or whoever is responsible keeps the trail maintained - such a wonderful piece of leisure infrastructure. Cheers from Michael.🙂🙂🙂
I actually did this a few weeks ago for the first time and took lots of video/photos, so I'll have to upload some of that. Even spotted the Greyhound bus as I was leaving lol. Worth noting I found a day ticket for $55 on their website although it's not mentioned anywhere and takes alot of digging around for.
I worked at Parks in QBN during the tender and development stage where the whole gig generated an extraordinary level of excitement - it was so ground-breaking and unlike the oft-stuffy and restrictive planning that applied to Kosci developments up to that point.
Such a fascinating rail line. Thanks for your great video. I love all your content. You really put a lot of effort into making your videos extremely entertaining and professional.
Wow a great documentary, Thankyou. My father was the design engineer at Comeng and worked with John Dunn on the project. My father and John have since passed, I have a piece of rock from the mountain that was given to my father as a memento. Plenty of memories, thanks
From time to time there has been storage for skis within the carriages. These were injection molded plastic strips which the skis slotted into and where either 2 rows bolted parallel or 3 strips in a triangle. However, with the change in ski shapes and the growth of snow boarding, they were taken out of the carriages. Occasionally you would still see them at the stations but when they wore out they were replaced with the metal or wood racks.
Great video, I'm keen to check it out one day! At the end, you mention that the train hibernates in the summer months - technically, that would be aestivation ;)
Fun fact: when the tunnel was first completed, there was a ski season where the tracks hadn’t been laid yet, and regular diesel busses made the trip up the tunnel. My parents rode it regularly, and they said that the fumes in the tunnel were pretty bad haha. (the busses may have only operated between Blue Cow and Perisher, not sure cant remember properly
Years ago I drove a 2wd over the pass from Corryong to Jindabyne in the snow, that was quite an experience! Almost went off before I had a chance to put chains on.
Awesome stuff your vid randomly appeared in my UA-cam feed and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I remember as a kid hearing about this being built thou have never used it so your vid answered all my questions and it is very well done. Thanks my man rock on!
My home station mentioned at just 13 seconds in! Side Note: As for snow it usually only happens once a year or not at all, and is usually never very deep.
Excellent little doc. Have always wanted to ride this mountain railway since first seeing engineers models of it on public display in Cooma in 1983. I agree the price is exuberant - no concessions I gather! Also it would make good sense environmentally to extend the line to Jindabyne and perhaps at least run a summer services. In Hobart, Tasmania recently the controversial proposal for a cable car up Mt Wellington was rejected. While I understand community rejection of it there could in the future be the possibilities for a rack railway from Fern Tree to kunanyi / Mt Wellington summit. It would be very scenic (probably expensive) on the climb along the existing roadway and a summit tunnel section would be better environmentally. This tunnel segment could even be a means to capture spring water to be used in artificial snow making for a skiing area.
Great video and information a little pricy but for a tourist, I also drove buses in the tunnel Perisher to Blue Cow for a few weeks and was a great experience that was
Times have changed...I grew up in Cooma and went on the Tube when it first opened it was amazing...it use to run all year round so you could go hiking sad it sits idle cause there's alot of money to be made going begging in the off season...there where Buses running from Cooma and Canb early am so skiers could get a full days skiing I remember them stopping at the Snow Stop in Cooma half awake, straggling off the bus for a break...those were the days
The uphill speed limit of the four car set is probably due to the extra weight of the fourth car, either because the power supply can’t support the power draw of it running faster, thus blowing a fuse or dropping the voltage so low the trains can’t operate anymore or maybe the rack can’t support the force needed to propel the four car set on one motor car at higher than 34 (the force required to go faster scales to the square of the speed). Typing this, I think the rack is probably the main issue since the set with two power cars can do 40 uphill as it has double the power cars and thus double the powered cogs distributing the force over double the teeth, thus not running into the issue of wrecking the rack or even stripping teeth in the worst case
Pretty sure you are right, 4 fully loaded cars during morning peak has to be close to 600 people plus the deadweight of the cars and going up 15% grades on only a pair of cogs, it would just be too much to ask at full clip, even with all that power.
couple of critiques: first of all, the train also has a main purpose of connecting thredbo ski resort which is just 15 minutes up the road. there are also indeed many bus services that run from Jindabyne to Thredbo via bullocks flat. There is even a public STA bus which started operating this ski season. Other then that very detailed and informative video! 👍👍
I was the bogie engineer at Comeng at the time and worked with John Dunn on this project, in particular on the trailer bogies. Comeng was expert in stainless steel bodies and we were surprised that the owner didn't want to go that way, but it seems to have survived ok with carbon steel. The bogie engineer from Switzerland (Henry Mooser) ended up moving to Australia, even though he had an 'interesting' welcome to the country when Comeng's Production Manager invited him to come outside the factory to 'sort out' a disagreement they had.
Really interesting info, can you share the reason for the 21k limitation on the downhill direction? As someone who has ridden it hundreds of times it always annoyed me when it goes up the hill a fair clip but crawls back down. Is it a break heat dissipation limitation?
Great video! I'm in NZ and hadn't heard of this railway. I'd love to travel on it and try out the Perisher and Blue Cow ski runs! I agree with you that it's a pity that there's no connection with a conventional-rail system to Jindabyne. Such a connection would seem to make a lot of sense.
I grew up in the area and used to take the Skitube from Bullock's Flat up to Blue Cow for work (all employees of Perisher have to take it during the school holiday period). It's interesting seeing it from an outsider perspective. Best place to sit is on one of the seats which is above of one of the heaters (nice and warm).
My uncle was a Perisher ski instructor in the 1980s, so I got to ride the Skitube in 1988, and it was exciting for a Sydney boy. I used to catch it in the 2000s each season until I got frustrated with the lack of bus service to and from, and the rising Skitube / lift ticket prices each year, and the lack of budget Perisher accommodation. The interior bizarrely hasn't changed in all that time, the fact they've never installed any ski or board holders is strange, I saw gear slide to the floor lots of times, and the only way I could ever get there was coach from Canberra. Shuttles between Jindabyne to Bullocks Flat have come and gone, but it's baffling how no one could see a practical reason to run a regular bus service in over 3 decades. I've skied Thredbo ever since. Taxis are close to non existent and don't even think about Uber. Basically the whole system is stuck in the 1980s.
You’ll be happy this year, TFNSW has woken up and is now actually running a regular bus service (to bullocks and perisher). There’s now 4 Ubers in Jindy as well!
Nice work! There is actually a regular bus that operates between Jindabyne and Bullocks Flat, but only runs every half an hour and with just an old rigid bus from Cooma Coaches. Would love to see frequencies increase to basically once the bus is full it goes😊
I use the ski tube to get up and down the mountains many times each year for many years but never knew the gradient was as steep as 1 in 8. And as a local to the area it would be good if the line reached Jindabyne or even Cooma where the only other form of rail transport is.(but wouldn't help much considering the line from Canberra to Bombala Via Cooma was mostly closed by 1987-88).
I can attest to this, I remember standing on a snowy Bell station one night as the snow fell, and seeing a blue goose come along snowy tracks to the station.
I remember going on a family holiday to jindabyne in the mid 90's. We werent skiing but we did take a ride on the train up the mountain and back. I wonder what the price was like back then compared to now
When the line was new, my Uncle and Aunt persuaded me to go from their place at Canberra to ride on the tube. We eventually got to the top and it was a memorable experience. I'm from Melbourne so forced myself to buy The Blue Tube Fleecy. Decades later in October 2022 I've looked through the wardrobe, and now proudly wear my colourful Blue Cow Souvenir, albeit rather moth eaten. [nb. Recently someone asked me why Australia had no barns. I haughtily said. "Mate. (sounding confident) Australia is a snow free zone. So we don't need Barns."
I'd like to think that the fact the highest station in Australia being underground would be a uniquely Australian thing but no. The highest station in Europe is also underground at the Jungfrau in Switzerland. Australia is the country for such madness though. Alice Springs is the only place in the World where boat races are cancelled when there is water in the river!
What an interesting piece of not-so-hidden transport! While I get the idea that the cost of this train is usually buried in packages, $110 seems very steep (sorry). But, now having worked in public transport, and this being a totally private, non subsidised railway, that is the approximate true cost of running the system.
I agree. I don’t know the capacity of the train, nor how many passenger trips per day there are, nor trips per season but a small moment of reflection suggests the numbers would multiply out to provide a handsome seasonal revenue. My own crude guesstimate would be many multiples of $10 million per season. Main expenses would include electricity consumption, staff wages, maintenance on train and line, insurance, depreciation.
I think there are a few more public transport options, I remember Murray's had packages specifically designed around day trips with a bus that leaves Sydney at 2am travelling through Canberra to get to bullocks flat around 830am before leaving around 4pm, with the option to buy a package fare and lift pass. During peak season the service would run daily with 2-3 buses filling up. It's how I went skiing without a car as a student.
Interesting! I think package tours like that exist in a sort of grey area that's more a private charter than public transport, but still good to know there are options like that.
I used the ski tube on its first day of operation. However we had to ride in buses as I assume they were desperate to get patrons to Blue Cow and the train wasn’t ready for use.
Great video! Not sure about this being the longest railway tunnel in Australia though, unless I'm missing something... Off the top of my head, the Forrestfield Airport Link tunnel in Perth as well as the Epping to Chatswood Rail Line in Sydney are longer? Not to mention the additional Sydney Metro Northwest tunnels from Epping... which could be added together with ECRL
The longest Blue Mountains tunnel is only 825m. I think the longest mainline railway tunnel in the country is currently the Woy Woy tunnel, 1.69km. Once again- not including urban underground lines.
It's great if you are a downhill skier and just add it on to your lift pass at a low cost. But for cross-country skiers, it's more than $500 for a season ticket and $55 for a day pass. A bit annoying, as there's no parking at Perisher on weekends after 8.30am or so, so you have to catch the tube.
Earlier this year i was stuck at bullocks flat from around 8;30pm till around 11pm in 1 degree weather. What happened was i planned on going down to my car (i was staying in a cabin on the mountain by the way) before the trains ended as i had forgotten my ski goggles in there, and going off prior knowledge of the trains stopping at 10pm i went down around 8:30pm thinking i had plenty of time to go and come back. Turns out on that monday night they had scheduled railway maintenance, having the last train at 8:30. I went down not knowing this, only to get to Bullocks flat to be informed that i had just gotten off the last train, having no way back up unless I drove (didnt want to take the risk as im on my P plates and have a zero tolerance to having alcohol in the blood when driving). After learning i couldnt get the train back up, I exhausted all of my options of getting back up, taxi, uber, paying a worker $50 to drive me up, nothing worked. even the police came to do a round of the carpark, so i asked them if there was any possible way they could help me out, they couldnt. after all this i was ready to admit defeat and sleep in my car in the cold weather and uncomfortable seat. i decided to do one final round of walking around the carpark to see if there were any newly arrived people who had planned to catch the 10pm train, and turns out i was in luck. long story short, after a while of trouble shooting and seeing what other options we had, we drove my car up where i parked overnight (which you can get fined for), and promptly moved my car back down to bullocks flat at 4:30 the next morning. (anti-climactic ending to the story i know). later on in hindsight, i was thinking whether or not walking up the train tracks back to perisher would be a good idea, obviously it'll take an hour or two, but if i was desperate i probably would've walked up not thinking of the possible negative repercussions. 11pm, no trains coming back up where im walking, however whether native animals in the national park would be happy with my presence is the question. What do you think, would walking up the train tracks in the middle of the night be a horrible idea?
Interesting story, I'm surprised they need to do evening shutdowns given they have the whole summer for maintenance! Very annoying they didn't tell you before you went down. To answer your question, walking up the track would definitely be a bad idea. The main thing to remember, is that 'no trains running' just means 'no PUBLIC trains running.' There still could be empty trains, freight trains (not at Skitube but this applies to other places too), or trains/vehicles involved in the actual maintenance taking place. Inside the tunnel would be extremely dangerous, and you'd have nowhere to go. Also, if it was closed for track work then there would have been people and machines doing that work, and the train control centre also has CCTV vision of lots of places along the line, so you probably wouldn't get far before getting a visit from the cops!
@@Taitset cheers for the reply. never even considered there being cctv but of course there will be surveillance in this day and age. Quite annoying how theres plenty of signage to say when the next train is coming, but no disclaimers what so ever of whether or not trains will continue running after a certain point, not even the guard said anything.
I weirdly wondered if is would be viable to do a semi high speed route between bullocks flat and canberra via jindy.... and eventually connect that to syd, but then again its would be seasonal at most and would take 4-5 hours at most.... and not too many aussies are into winter sports as well...
I think the target market for the Greyhound bus would be people coming from interstate who don't want to hire a car. They fly to Sydney or Canberra then take the bus, then the train to the resorts.
Interesting fact: the train was custom made to fit the width of the tunnel, Ive watched all the old docos on Snowy Mountains TV in Jindabyne over 20 years of skiing 😉
Hello and welcome to the comments section! A few people are pulling me up on saying this is 'Australia's longest railway tunnel,' so a little clarification is in order: I should have added "excluding urban underground railways." I actually meant to put that in, but forgot for some reason. There are obviously several urban underground commuter lines with tunnels longer than this. The reason I make this distinction is that urban underground lines exist for a fundamentally different purpose than traditional railway tunnels: Underground lines are generally aimed at expanding service coverage and passenger catchment in dense urban areas, where an above ground alignment isn't possible. On the other hand, traditional railway tunnels fundamentally exist to get the line under hills and mountains. To be fair, Skitube falls into a little bit of a grey area here given it has underground stations, but the main purpose of the tunnel is still to get underneath a jolly big mountain, so that's the category I was throwing it in.
You've missed the most important fact of all - The Ski Tube Olympics!!!
Worked in Perisher in the early 2000's and occasionally staff would try the Ski Tube Olympics on the ride down after the mountain was closed. The object was to get from one end of the carriage to the other without touching the floor. You could only use the crush barriers and the single poles in between. And if you wanted to try it in 'Pro Mode' you needed to go over the first crush barrier, and under the next and repeat this down the carriage!
Fun times!!!
I genuinely thought RM transit got Austria and Australia mixed up when he talked about this in one of his videos! Despite being a gunzel I hadn't actually heard of it, which was crazy to me considering how cool it looks to me...
I'm a transport nerd, and I grew up in NSW in the 80s, but I still didn't hear about this until that RM Transit video. I suppose that at the time, all the transport news was about plans for the airport tunnel in Sydney and filling the gap between Glenfield and East Hills. I wish NSW's rail network was a little more Swiss, though, even though NSW is 20 times the size.
It really is quite amazing how little known it is! Maybe less so now that it's getting a bit of youtube coverage. I knew about it more from my bushwalking/camping interest than from the railfan world.
I know it's not that well known, but I'm a little surprised there's any train/transport enthusiasts in Australia that didn't know about it. I'm not really sure how I knew about it, but I remember news of its construction in the 80s, and have certainly known of its existence before began operations. It did appear in a number of books on Australian railways back then, and no doubt the usual magazines, but I rarely bought magazines then. But to this day, I've still not visited.
We dont have electrified rack railways here in Austria. We have two diesel/steam powered ones and one exclusively steam powered.
@@nomadMik Likewise, it wasn't until I moved from Sydney to Gippsland that I became more than a rumour, and that was in 85.
I worked two seasons as a concourse attendant on the ski tube, in 2008 and 2009, and this was a very interesting video even being pretty familiar with the Skitube - I definitely didn't know that the 40kph limit uphill was actually more like 34kph.
A few other bits of info I recall from my time there;
The tube typically starts operating in May, after a period of testing. This is to accommodate the influx of seasonal workers on the mountain, although on a very reduced schedule, and for staff only. Similarly it continues into the second or third week of October, as the mountain is still busy with closure work, and the possibility of heavy spring snowfalls is very real, which can lead to the road being closed very quickly.
Emergency stops on that rack are no joke either - from full speed uphill to dead stopped in ~2m was the number I recall, and the two I experienced definitely felt like it. To my knowledge, 'rail-kill' just doesn't happen on the tube - it is too slow and loud to have a chance of sneaking up on even the sleepiest wombat.
I have no real way of saying the maximum occupancy of each car, but they were truly jam packed at times. Luggage and carts were banned during peak hours and it was standing room only, with punters often turned away to wait for the next train.
During the off-peak (both pre/post season, and during the middle of the day in the regular season) the passing loop is not used, and the Bullocks to Perisher train runs on a single 4-car shuttle. In the evenings, past around 7pm, the 4-car sets are stabled, and the 3-car that usually runs the blue cow leg, runs as a shuttle through the entire line, from Bullocks to Blue Cow and return. I worked a second job in the evenings on the mountain, and there was no longer or colder wait than the deathly hour it took for the train to make its way downhill and back up again if you missed it. I believe the last departure from bullocks was at 1am, 'on request', effectively for staff such as the graveyard shift of snowmakers, as well as some of the bakers and kitchen staff making their way to work.
There is also a rack-rail service vehicle with pantograph lift to allow servicing of the overheads, and I have a hunch that there may actually be two of the flat cargo wagons. The shunting engine is occasionally (possibly permanently?) in Thomas the Tank Engine colours as well.
In the short decline after the Perisher valley terminal, before the incline to Blue Cow starts, an exit to the outside is blasted in the right hand wall, leading up a short adit to a portal on the hillside just after the creek. This was used to effect the removal of spoil from the Blue Cow tunnelling operation, and buses were run up the tunnel to transport workers to the top terminal during its construction. This portal was (at least during my time) trained as a possibility for emergency evacuation should a fire in the Skitube terminal upstairs necessitate removal of passengers from the platform, albeit very impractical in the dark, with tripping hazards everywhere.
It was one of the best jobs on the mountain, as the railway operates under State Rail governance and awards, giving very reasonable base pay, and shift length limits. The drivers and engineers were often some of the longest-serving employees on the mountain.
Finally, if you want a ride but can't afford the ticket price, the leg between Perisher valley and Blue Cow is not formally ticketed, being included (depending who you ask) in the park entry fee, or the lift ticket price. There are no ticket gates at Perisher Valley or Blue Cow. A quick drive up the mountain and a day pass for ne car would be much cheaper than the day return ticket. Indeed, lodge visitors (who generally must leave their cars at bullocks flat) often drive their group and luggage to the top and draw straws to see which unlucky bugger has to return the car to bullocks flat and catch the tube up.
Some great insights there, thanks!
Hi Pip, the Ski-tube minced a dear this year at the snow season. Maybe rail-kill is rare but not unheard of 😔
Don't know if there is any off peak time anymore, the season was flat out the whole time 😵
@@olitapp5361 ouch - venison burgers on the menu at the man?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You forgot to mention the most important thing about this railway: the miniature cinnamon donuts at the Perisher Station! So much nostalgia wrapped up in those small rings of dough, the smell of cinnamon mixing with the smell of the snowmelt as you ride back down the mountain. They'd better not ever shut that donut shop!
Amazing, building site sheds on wheels
They travel cheaper on a tilt tray.
I actually broke my wrist skiing in Australia- but turning up in Sydney with a case full of ski gear raised a few eyebrows - I was so sooo tempted to say ‘is the capital not Vienna’ but I’m not sure customs anywhere has a sense of humour
Australian customs is the worst. they take their job OVER seriously, and they would have arrested you for terrorism 😀
@@brad9529 I think you have Australian customs confused with American customs
@Dante Madden15 No, my experience in the US is that they don't even care. Coming back to Australia is shit even when you are Australian.
It shouldn't raise any eyebrows. Heaps of people travel between sydney and, japan, nzl, canada with skis/snowboards.
Bruce Leaver
As the national parks manager of the project I can confirm the concept and driver was Ken Bilston. The reason that it was not extended to Jindabyne was cost. The project was entirely privately funded. It initially relied on winter closure of Kosciusko Road but that was not tenable. That is why Blue Cow was added as rail only access, to enhance viability. The reason the Blue Cow tunnel in was blasted not drilled was the hardness of the granite.
You mentioned that there's almost no public transport access to the Skitube from elsewhere, but actually, there was a trial bus service this year that ran between Jindabyne and the Bullocks Flat terminal several times a day, and another route between Jindabyne and Thredbo. It'll be interesting to see if this is made permanent.
Interesting, hopefully they do make that permanent as it makes a lot of sense.
Yep, and the greyhound service is hit and miss at times too, often terminating at Jindabyne. It was mostly used by employees who live on the mountain, and the very occasional (and unusual) guest who was willing to fork out big bucks for a lodge bed, but didn't want to hire a car.
Thanks for the in-depth video.
I’ve been using the Ski Tube or as it’s just known as the Tube since when it opened as a kid. In 88’ maybe it was 87 to get to Blue Cow they had busses running in the tunnel from Perisher Terminal as the track hadn’t been laid.
Also in the early days, the trains use to run all the way to Blue Cow, so you didn’t have to get off, if you wanted to go the whole way.
Another tid bid of info, the Blue Cow terminal was built in its location so it couldn’t be seen from Mt Kosci or the Main Range.
Honestly it should have been built a little further down as it’s location makes it hard to get back to from lower down, especially the beginner chair, but this was part of the environmental agreement.
With skis and boards, when it’s less busy. Often people lay them down on the ground at those crush barriers the other times you are jammed packed in holding your skis/boards.
They should’ve built the second tunnel. We are now back at the original issue as this year showed. Often the Kosci Road has been closed by 9am to traffic up the hill.
Edit* If you don’t want to pay the outrages prices and just want to ride a small portion of it. The Perisher to Blue Cow leg is free. No electronic gates unlike down at Bullocks Flat.
Thanks again, you actually taught me some things.
Yes, we took the bus in 87 to Blue Cow as well. How did they turn them around with a dead end? I can't remember.
@@jswatts1967 that's what I have been trying to work out myself as well. I remember the tunnel exit at perisher.
Platform must not have been installed properly or the storage area to the right.
They actually installed a turntable, it's mentioned in some of the books on skitube.
@@Taitset that's it, i just couldn't remember that part. Thanks Taitset!
Thanks, mystery solved!
I did a season in Jindy working up the mountain in Thredbo and to me without a car, the tube was the most frustrating thing due to its massive unfulfilled potential! I spent the entire time imagining how much better it would be if:
-it continued on without rack to Jindabyne (at 40kmh the onward journey would only be another 30min, at 60 kmh only 20min so much faster than driving in peak)
-it had 5 minute frequencies in the peaks rather than 20min at present (obviously need much more double track and passing loop, and you mention in your vid there were proposals to double-track the entirety which would have been amazing)
-it had branches to Thredbo and Charlottes Pass.
Creates good local jobs, massive boost for the town of Jindabyne, improves air quality, lowers GHG emissions, lowers roadkill and ecological footprint (those roads are littered with animal carcasses June-October), lowers road maintenance needs, massively lowers risk of accidents on roads.
Even if you just built passing loop B and ordered new rolling stock to improve frequencies to 5 or 10 minutes in the peak; and offered a reliable regular inclusive bus service (can also service Thredbo) that would be massive.
I was going to say the same thing. If it had run from Jindabyne with those branches there would have been enough traffic to justify a higher frequency of service.
Importantly, I thought that the Bullocks Flat terminus was in exactly the wrong spot. The upside of having a rail system would have been to be able to avoid all roads that might require chains. To put the terminal in the other side of a Ridge that can require chains made me think bugger it, if I hav3 to struggle with chains I might as well drive up to perisher carpark. Which is what I've done for decades.
@@lowend5566 yes its nuts. What would be your suggestion to the existing infrastructure?
@@BigBlueMan118 I honestly don't think there's any chance that extending the line to Jindabyne could ever happen due to cost, environmental impact, long term outlook for the ski industry, etc. The cost of the fare is very high so any additional development of the line would only make it less accessible to skiers. We were really excited about the project when it was first being proposed in the 70s (if I remember correctly) but it just didn't serve my needs. I've used it a lot but compared to being able to take all your gear in the car, a change of clothes, lunch goodies, and being able to dump tired kids into the back seat for a midday nap, etc etc, it just never stacked up. What's your experience?
@@lowend5566 The point about the tired kids is always a big one, it's hard to argue against that one. Cost is much to high, no doubt about it - cost should be significantly reduced, a bus service brought in to service it & thredbo with proper pricing signals for travellers & drivers.
I honestly think a good bus service turning up every 10 minutes in Jindy between 7-10am and 3-7pm (and hourly outside that) heading to the Tube and Thredbo would be a game changer. But the environmental impact of putting a single-track electrified line in alongside the road (with a couple of minor bridges & tunnels) wouldn't actually be significant at all in my opinion, most of the way from Bullocks is just livestock paddocks anyway. I am actually an environmental scientist by trade and I can't square that one. The fact they keep extending the overflow carparks which keep overfilling and STILL haven't brought in a bus service is insane We need to slash emissions too, emissions need to come down by at least half in the next 8 years to stop catastrophic global warming, we have legally binding agreements on this, so I really don't see how the current situation of 1000s of cars streaming into the park constantly can continue if we are serious about our responsibilities. Would love to see the tube extended!
@@BigBlueMan118 I agree with extending the line to Jindabyne and Thredbo but I just can't see the various environmental lobbies giving it a free pass. The land resumption cost wouldn't be huge and if they wanted to cheap out a two element system would be cheaper, friction line then an interchange at Bullocks to the existing skitube. I'm not an engineer but I figure that designing a line that has both friction and rack on the same cars sounds expensive and complex.
As big an issue is the decline of these resorts as destinations for high value skiers. The high value skiers commonly go to Japan, Europe and the USA which back in the early 70s when I started skiing in the area was for tge very well healed indeed. Visit Niseko or Hakuba in Japan and it's as Aussie as Smiggins, though with better food, snow, cheaper tickets and easy access. Sure, there's the flight costs but that's not as important to high value clients as good, reliable snow and a little bit of a foreign holiday, an "experience" rather than just a trip to the snowies. That's all to say that as the snow quality declines in Australia those who are prepared to pay for the $180pd lift ticket and the $110 skitube will become a very rare breed. Once they leave the resorts the low value clients will baulk at the cost and go for the cheapest options leading to lower ridership ... etc. That's not to say that Australian skiing is dead, I've been hearing that for 40 years or more, but with more palatable "experiences " (skiing AND tourism) on offer its only a matter of time.
True story, while enjoying a skiing holiday in 1987, I asked my Father if we might use the Skitube. He said it was too expensive for tickets. So we drove up the mountain with snowchains on the tyres, parked the car in the parking lot, went skiing. My Father unfortunately did'nt put any antifreeze in the cooling system, which was common back then here in Australia. Plain water freezes at temperatures under zero of course, so there was a cracked radiator when we got back. Skitube would've been a lot cheaper!
My favourite trick is to get the front seat going downhill and then wait until the tiny distant ‘light at the end of the tunnel’ eventually appears, then to watch it slowly get bigger. There really is a light at the end of the tunnel on ski tube.
I actually rode on this in 2019 I think when I was only 12 and I loved my time there as to this day it is the only time I have experienced snow. On top of that one morning the train broke down, they told us it was an electrical fault but I’m pretty sure it was the cog getting jammed in the rack rail. We got towed back to the station and all had to pile on a train half the size of ours and with twice as many people. That was also the only time a mode of transport that I was on broke down with me on it. But I still had the time of my life, highly recommended.
Excellent and detailed work in this clip. The number of 'records' this railway holds holds must be a record all of its own.
It can then enter the Guinnes Book of meta records.
Rode it many years ago when it was fairly new as part of a school excursion to the snowies. Very cool piece of infrastructure and a great explanation of how it works and why it's there. Some good memories. Thanks.
I use it multiple times every year. The Perisher to Blue Cow section is technically one of the lifts and is covered with every lift pass. For 2023 the Skitube add-on to the Epic Pass is $169 and gives unlimited travel between Bullocks and Perisher.
The first season it only opened to Perisher and buses were used between Perisher and Blue Cow.
I’ve always found this piece of infrastructure fascinating and made my own video about it a couple of months ago, A Victorian version was proposed from Harrietville to Mt Hotham but sadly no action was taken, nice video.
Shame they didn't build the Hotham one, that would be great! I just saw your video in the last couple of days, great job. It's cool we have so many people making Aussie transport content now!
When I looked at the history of the Bright line, there was a plan to extend it to Omeo but there was no way to keep the line below the snowline.
@@darylcheshire1618 That's annoying :-( A few years ago I needed to travel from Wangaratta to Omeo via public transport, and there's just no public transport at all over that ridge --- I ended up having to hire a car
@@aracheldra8763 If it was opened around 1900 it probably would have closed in the ‘50s.
Fun fact! I’ve just worked the ski season in perisher and learned the line was once planned to go all the way into Jindabyne! There’s even a plot of land called ‘the station’ which has since been repurposed into a hotel area. The line was planned fo be built after the completion of the initial ski tube ‘park and ride’ and a line through Canberra to Sydney was even pitched to the government as a wider transport link possibility!
Obviously, this was never completed, but as someone who went from Jindabyne to Perisher daily for 4 months I really don’t know why!
Skitube was one of the rack railways I had limited information about, thank you for putting together a nice overview of the railway. I train drivers on the Manitou and Pikes Peak cog railway in the US, it's always cool to see how it works in other places.
Great video, and definitely on my bucket list. A bit of insight as to why the motor cars are generally placed downhill: if the motor car was uphill, then it would be pulling the rest of the carriages. In doing so you could run into strength issues with the coupler having to pull 7 trailer cars full of people. If the motor is downhill then it is pushing the 7 carriages, and the coupler can better handle the compressive strength (compared to tension in the uphill configuration).
In this case there's only three trailer cars maximum, but the point presumably still stands.
@@someonesomewhere1240 yes you’re right
My wife did a whole heap of the drafting work for this as she worked for SMEC (Snowy Mountains Engineering Corporation) in Cooma. It was back in the days when drafting was still done with ink and paper as CAD was in early days.
Got to ride this back when I was 13 on a school ski trip in 2001. Definitely was pretty cool that Perisher had this train - was a bit of a novelty thing for us rural school kids to do, skiing and taking this train up and down the mountain ☺️
In the 90's I was working for Philips Communications; we designed and installed the two-way radio system for that train and tunnel.
Being in the middle of the tunnel with me and just the driver, he turned off all the lights, so dark.
Ive always wondered how they got two way comms piped up the tunnels. Do they use one giant run of leaky antenna cable like cellular carriers do or do you just point a bunch of yagis up from the bilston portal and then repeaters in the curves?
@@lukewalker3905 you nailed it, they use a low profile antenna on the train, and a slotted leaky coax on a continuous run, and yagi's for the entry and exists. I think also a repeater at the mid point.
It was a Philips system and they used some subtone system on it, (that was a pain to work on).
Nice video. In my opinion this is Australia's most intetesting railway. I've ridden in about 10 times. It's a unique experience.
Great video, I'm glad you found my book of use.
Regards David Jehan
I'm a snow skiier, and was regular there before Skitube, and every year thereafter. I recall the opening season for Blue Cow, with buses obtained from Hobart running in the tunnel. A blasting accident had delayed completion by a year. People were sceptical that the line would be a white elephant. Instead, it was successful beyond predictions, and had the problem of constrained capacity. The stations couldn't be lengthened. The basic operational pattern was changed. It had been three 3-car sets, crossing before the tunnel, and at Perisher. That was changed to the pattern in this video: two four-car sets, crossing below the tunnel, and terminating at Perisher (hanging off the platform at each end), with a two-car shuttle beyond. That was made feasible by Perisher taking over Blue Cow and Guthega, so that a lot of skiers could use the ski lifts rather than the railway to interchange. The railway did run all year round for the first many years, taking picnickers and walkers to the top. A lot of public transport to the region is for skiers who are staying at the resorts, and they make a one-way transfer midday. Likewise, for people staying for a week, it is fashionable to dine at the different locations, and the Blue Cow restaurant trades into the evening. For several years, ARHS ACT ran a summer inspection of the line and its facilities. The diesel shunter ran the wagon with platform seats to Thredbo River for the lunch stop.
The road to Bullocks Flat is usually clear for vehicles without chains being needed. The Perisher road often requires chains, or is closed. Having driven 7 hours from Sydney, NSW drivers hate fitting chains. Another part of the whole package was the building of a mega village at Jindabyne, capable of holding 40 bus groups. They would then bus to Skitube each day.
I had no idea that this railway existed! Wow!!
G'day Martin, just stumbled across this clip while enjoying a quiet Cup Day at home keeping warm and catching up with a backlog of UA-cam clips. You have done a great job on this one. I was fortunate to ride Skitube all the way to Blue Cow and back many years ago when they ran an hourly service during summer and the fare wasn't so eyewatering as it appears now.
Several years ago (summer before COVID), I did an anticlockwise road trip from Melbourne through Gippsland to Cooma, returning via Corryong and Alexandra and called in at Bullocks Flat for a general snoop while passing by.
While I was walking along the bitumen sealed footpath from the end of the car park near the rear of the workshop, the bitumen suddenly moved and hissed at me. The resultant Irish Jig, adrenaline rush and rapid heart beat caused some amusement to a pair of security guards who came out of the station to investigate why I was wandering in the vicinity during a non-running day. I think the Red Bellied Black Snake got as much of a fright as I did as it careered between my hopping legs and disappeared into the scrub behind me off path.
Hope this gives you a chuckle or two. I'm sure we will all have to be snake conscious this summer as many would have been displaced by the recent floods. Take care out your way along the Diamond Creek Trail. I walked the fully renovated trail on a brilliant sunny weekday back in early August prior to the Hurstbridge Wattle Festival. Hopefully, Council or whoever is responsible keeps the trail maintained - such a wonderful piece of leisure infrastructure.
Cheers from Michael.🙂🙂🙂
I actually did this a few weeks ago for the first time and took lots of video/photos, so I'll have to upload some of that. Even spotted the Greyhound bus as I was leaving lol.
Worth noting I found a day ticket for $55 on their website although it's not mentioned anywhere and takes alot of digging around for.
I worked at Parks in QBN during the tender and development stage where the whole gig generated an extraordinary level of excitement - it was so ground-breaking and unlike the oft-stuffy and restrictive planning that applied to Kosci developments up to that point.
Such a fascinating rail line. Thanks for your great video. I love all your content. You really put a lot of effort into making your videos extremely entertaining and professional.
Thanks, glad you're enjoying them!
Wow a great documentary, Thankyou. My father was the design engineer at Comeng and worked with John Dunn on the project. My father and John have since passed, I have a piece of rock from the mountain that was given to my father as a memento. Plenty of memories, thanks
What a strange thing to pop up in my feed. Really Interesting
From time to time there has been storage for skis within the carriages. These were injection molded plastic strips which the skis slotted into and where either 2 rows bolted parallel or 3 strips in a triangle. However, with the change in ski shapes and the growth of snow boarding, they were taken out of the carriages. Occasionally you would still see them at the stations but when they wore out they were replaced with the metal or wood racks.
Buses ran through the tunnel for a season before the tracks were laid. We were staying at Thredbo and did a day at Perisher and went through in buses.
Great video, I'm keen to check it out one day! At the end, you mention that the train hibernates in the summer months - technically, that would be aestivation ;)
Oh wow, I didn't know there was a different word for that!
The train looks amazing and it fits in the snow (the train in the thumbnail)
Fascinating indeed! I'd never heard of Skitube before watching your video!
Great video! Very comprehensive and clear. Keep up the good work.
Fun fact: when the tunnel was first completed, there was a ski season where the tracks hadn’t been laid yet, and regular diesel busses made the trip up the tunnel. My parents rode it regularly, and they said that the fumes in the tunnel were pretty bad haha. (the busses may have only operated between Blue Cow and Perisher, not sure cant remember properly
Yep they just operated between Perisher and Blue Cow in the first season.
Agreed with the driving in snow, we went camping at barringtontops in the snow in a 2wd car, can say leaving was a challenge
Years ago I drove a 2wd over the pass from Corryong to Jindabyne in the snow, that was quite an experience! Almost went off before I had a chance to put chains on.
Awesome stuff your vid randomly appeared in my UA-cam feed and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I remember as a kid hearing about this being built thou have never used it so your vid answered all my questions and it is very well done. Thanks my man rock on!
My home station mentioned at just 13 seconds in! Side Note: As for snow it usually only happens once a year or not at all, and is usually never very deep.
Excellent little doc. Have always wanted to ride this mountain railway since first seeing engineers models of it on public display in Cooma in 1983. I agree the price is exuberant - no concessions I gather! Also it would make good sense environmentally to extend the line to Jindabyne and perhaps at least run a summer services. In Hobart, Tasmania recently the controversial proposal for a cable car up Mt Wellington was rejected. While I understand community rejection of it there could in the future be the possibilities for a rack railway from Fern Tree to kunanyi / Mt Wellington summit. It would be very scenic (probably expensive) on the climb along the existing roadway and a summit tunnel section would be better environmentally. This tunnel segment could even be a means to capture spring water to be used in artificial snow making for a skiing area.
Great video and information a little pricy but for a tourist, I also drove buses in the tunnel Perisher to Blue Cow for a few weeks and was a great experience that was
Amazing, never new this train existed, great video, thanks :)
Times have changed...I grew up in Cooma and went on the Tube when it first opened it was amazing...it use to run all year round so you could go hiking sad it sits idle cause there's alot of money to be made going begging in the off season...there where Buses running from Cooma and Canb early am so skiers could get a full days skiing I remember them stopping at the Snow Stop in Cooma half awake, straggling off the bus for a break...those were the days
Good little video on a overlooked railway in Australia.
Mark from Melbourne Australia
The uphill speed limit of the four car set is probably due to the extra weight of the fourth car, either because the power supply can’t support the power draw of it running faster, thus blowing a fuse or dropping the voltage so low the trains can’t operate anymore or maybe the rack can’t support the force needed to propel the four car set on one motor car at higher than 34 (the force required to go faster scales to the square of the speed). Typing this, I think the rack is probably the main issue since the set with two power cars can do 40 uphill as it has double the power cars and thus double the powered cogs distributing the force over double the teeth, thus not running into the issue of wrecking the rack or even stripping teeth in the worst case
Pretty sure you are right, 4 fully loaded cars during morning peak has to be close to 600 people plus the deadweight of the cars and going up 15% grades on only a pair of cogs, it would just be too much to ask at full clip, even with all that power.
couple of critiques: first of all, the train also has a main purpose of connecting thredbo ski resort which is just 15 minutes up the road. there are also indeed many bus services that run from Jindabyne to Thredbo via bullocks flat. There is even a public STA bus which started operating this ski season. Other then that very detailed and informative video! 👍👍
oh fuck yes, trains and snow? this is exactly what i need. thankyou!
Really well presented and informative. ❤
I was the bogie engineer at Comeng at the time and worked with John Dunn on this project, in particular on the trailer bogies. Comeng was expert in stainless steel bodies and we were surprised that the owner didn't want to go that way, but it seems to have survived ok with carbon steel. The bogie engineer from Switzerland (Henry Mooser) ended up moving to Australia, even though he had an 'interesting' welcome to the country when Comeng's Production Manager invited him to come outside the factory to 'sort out' a disagreement they had.
Really interesting info, can you share the reason for the 21k limitation on the downhill direction? As someone who has ridden it hundreds of times it always annoyed me when it goes up the hill a fair clip but crawls back down. Is it a break heat dissipation limitation?
@@lukewalker3905 i seem to recollect that is to do with Swiss Regulations to do with emergency stopping distances.
Great video!
I'm in NZ and hadn't heard of this railway. I'd love to travel on it and try out the Perisher and Blue Cow ski runs!
I agree with you that it's a pity that there's no connection with a conventional-rail system to Jindabyne. Such a connection would seem to make a lot of sense.
I grew up just down the road from this and never heard of it...
I grew up in the area and used to take the Skitube from Bullock's Flat up to Blue Cow for work (all employees of Perisher have to take it during the school holiday period). It's interesting seeing it from an outsider perspective. Best place to sit is on one of the seats which is above of one of the heaters (nice and warm).
Great video. Thanks.
My uncle was a Perisher ski instructor in the 1980s, so I got to ride the Skitube in 1988, and it was exciting for a Sydney boy. I used to catch it in the 2000s each season until I got frustrated with the lack of bus service to and from, and the rising Skitube / lift ticket prices each year, and the lack of budget Perisher accommodation. The interior bizarrely hasn't changed in all that time, the fact they've never installed any ski or board holders is strange, I saw gear slide to the floor lots of times, and the only way I could ever get there was coach from Canberra. Shuttles between Jindabyne to Bullocks Flat have come and gone, but it's baffling how no one could see a practical reason to run a regular bus service in over 3 decades. I've skied Thredbo ever since. Taxis are close to non existent and don't even think about Uber. Basically the whole system is stuck in the 1980s.
You’ll be happy this year, TFNSW has woken up and is now actually running a regular bus service (to bullocks and perisher). There’s now 4 Ubers in Jindy as well!
Now that you mentioned it, I might just put that on my bucket list.
Nice work! There is actually a regular bus that operates between Jindabyne and Bullocks Flat, but only runs every half an hour and with just an old rigid bus from Cooma Coaches. Would love to see frequencies increase to basically once the bus is full it goes😊
Thank you, Taitset! I was curious about this railroad.
The Greyhound target market is backpackers or travellers with a season or annual ticket. Like 3 months unlimited travel for $850 for example.
Thankyou for the video, I had no idea that this was there.
I use the ski tube to get up and down the mountains many times each year for many years but never knew the gradient was as steep as 1 in 8. And as a local to the area it would be good if the line reached Jindabyne or even Cooma where the only other form of rail transport is.(but wouldn't help much considering the line from Canberra to Bombala Via Cooma was mostly closed by 1987-88).
very enjoyable video, thanks
Being on Katoomba (in The Blue Mountain) station at night after it snows is eerie and magical.
I can attest to this, I remember standing on a snowy Bell station one night as the snow fell, and seeing a blue goose come along snowy tracks to the station.
Ah, this takes me back to when I was going to school in jindy. Good times
Amazing Video, thank you!
I find it amazing this train exists in Australia. Tough if you just wanna take the train though.
thank you for the video
I remember going on a family holiday to jindabyne in the mid 90's. We werent skiing but we did take a ride on the train up the mountain and back. I wonder what the price was like back then compared to now
When the line was new, my Uncle and Aunt persuaded me to go from their place at Canberra to ride on the tube. We eventually got to the top and it was a memorable experience. I'm from Melbourne so forced myself to buy The Blue Tube Fleecy. Decades later in October 2022 I've looked through the wardrobe, and now proudly wear my colourful Blue Cow Souvenir, albeit rather moth eaten. [nb. Recently someone asked me why Australia had no barns. I haughtily said. "Mate. (sounding confident) Australia is a snow free zone. So we don't need Barns."
Very interesting. I'm not a skier and have never heard of this railway. I think more could be made of it for tourism &tc.
Great video! There is so little information that I have been able to find about this line.
Saw this in my recommended, put it in my watch later, and so glad I watched it now. Never knew Australia had a ski industry or even a train like this.
It only lasts 3 months at best and some years is terrible, but otherwise is pretty good, there is quite a lot of snow fields from Victoria to NSW.
@@brad9529 more like 4 months.
@@nathanielpillar8012 I stand corrected, but I think it depends on the season.
@@brad9529 depends on the year, some years there’s been 6 or more months with snow
I'd like to think that the fact the highest station in Australia being underground would be a uniquely Australian thing but no. The highest station in Europe is also underground at the Jungfrau in Switzerland. Australia is the country for such madness though. Alice Springs is the only place in the World where boat races are cancelled when there is water in the river!
The trains give series London Underground D stock vibes with the door layout haha
No. I love it so much!
I had no idea this exists - great video!
What an interesting piece of not-so-hidden transport! While I get the idea that the cost of this train is usually buried in packages, $110 seems very steep (sorry). But, now having worked in public transport, and this being a totally private, non subsidised railway, that is the approximate true cost of running the system.
As an add-on to the Epic Pass it’s $169 for unlimited use in 2023.
I agree.
I don’t know the capacity of the train, nor how many passenger trips per day there are, nor trips per season but a small moment of reflection suggests the numbers would multiply out to provide a handsome seasonal revenue. My own crude guesstimate would be many multiples of $10 million per season. Main expenses would include electricity consumption, staff wages, maintenance on train and line, insurance, depreciation.
Funny thing is that I only went there like a month ago, didn't get to see the ski tube but I really wanted to
I didn't know these existed. I just hitchhiked my way up to the snowfields when I was there.
I think there are a few more public transport options, I remember Murray's had packages specifically designed around day trips with a bus that leaves Sydney at 2am travelling through Canberra to get to bullocks flat around 830am before leaving around 4pm, with the option to buy a package fare and lift pass. During peak season the service would run daily with 2-3 buses filling up. It's how I went skiing without a car as a student.
Interesting! I think package tours like that exist in a sort of grey area that's more a private charter than public transport, but still good to know there are options like that.
Also I believe they have a converted snow groomer for winter maintenance on the the tracks.
Hope to see this one day
I have learnt something new. I didn't realise that Skitube existed.
I used the ski tube on its first day of operation. However we had to ride in buses as I assume they were desperate to get patrons to Blue Cow and the train wasn’t ready for use.
Reallly interesting video. Thanks. I'm not surprised it's expensive. It's Swiss!
Great video! Not sure about this being the longest railway tunnel in Australia though, unless I'm missing something... Off the top of my head, the Forrestfield Airport Link tunnel in Perth as well as the Epping to Chatswood Rail Line in Sydney are longer? Not to mention the additional Sydney Metro Northwest tunnels from Epping... which could be added together with ECRL
Oh wait I get it... You're talking about continuous tunnel length between portals/stations, not overall length
Yep that's the one! :) It does get a bit complicated when you start comparing traditional railway tunnels with urban underground railways.
I thought the Blue Mountain tunnels to Lithgow were amongs the longest.
The longest Blue Mountains tunnel is only 825m. I think the longest mainline railway tunnel in the country is currently the Woy Woy tunnel, 1.69km. Once again- not including urban underground lines.
@@Taitset Ahh thanks, I wasn’t sure.
It's great if you are a downhill skier and just add it on to your lift pass at a low cost. But for cross-country skiers, it's more than $500 for a season ticket and $55 for a day pass. A bit annoying, as there's no parking at Perisher on weekends after 8.30am or so, so you have to catch the tube.
Thanks for the video. Have always loved the idea, but have always driven due to the cost.
Earlier this year i was stuck at bullocks flat from around 8;30pm till around 11pm in 1 degree weather. What happened was i planned on going down to my car (i was staying in a cabin on the mountain by the way) before the trains ended as i had forgotten my ski goggles in there, and going off prior knowledge of the trains stopping at 10pm i went down around 8:30pm thinking i had plenty of time to go and come back. Turns out on that monday night they had scheduled railway maintenance, having the last train at 8:30. I went down not knowing this, only to get to Bullocks flat to be informed that i had just gotten off the last train, having no way back up unless I drove (didnt want to take the risk as im on my P plates and have a zero tolerance to having alcohol in the blood when driving). After learning i couldnt get the train back up, I exhausted all of my options of getting back up, taxi, uber, paying a worker $50 to drive me up, nothing worked. even the police came to do a round of the carpark, so i asked them if there was any possible way they could help me out, they couldnt. after all this i was ready to admit defeat and sleep in my car in the cold weather and uncomfortable seat. i decided to do one final round of walking around the carpark to see if there were any newly arrived people who had planned to catch the 10pm train, and turns out i was in luck. long story short, after a while of trouble shooting and seeing what other options we had, we drove my car up where i parked overnight (which you can get fined for), and promptly moved my car back down to bullocks flat at 4:30 the next morning. (anti-climactic ending to the story i know).
later on in hindsight, i was thinking whether or not walking up the train tracks back to perisher would be a good idea, obviously it'll take an hour or two, but if i was desperate i probably would've walked up not thinking of the possible negative repercussions. 11pm, no trains coming back up where im walking, however whether native animals in the national park would be happy with my presence is the question. What do you think, would walking up the train tracks in the middle of the night be a horrible idea?
Interesting story, I'm surprised they need to do evening shutdowns given they have the whole summer for maintenance! Very annoying they didn't tell you before you went down. To answer your question, walking up the track would definitely be a bad idea. The main thing to remember, is that 'no trains running' just means 'no PUBLIC trains running.' There still could be empty trains, freight trains (not at Skitube but this applies to other places too), or trains/vehicles involved in the actual maintenance taking place. Inside the tunnel would be extremely dangerous, and you'd have nowhere to go. Also, if it was closed for track work then there would have been people and machines doing that work, and the train control centre also has CCTV vision of lots of places along the line, so you probably wouldn't get far before getting a visit from the cops!
@@Taitset cheers for the reply. never even considered there being cctv but of course there will be surveillance in this day and age. Quite annoying how theres plenty of signage to say when the next train is coming, but no disclaimers what so ever of whether or not trains will continue running after a certain point, not even the guard said anything.
Very nice video
I weirdly wondered if is would be viable to do a semi high speed route between bullocks flat and canberra via jindy.... and eventually connect that to syd, but then again its would be seasonal at most and would take 4-5 hours at most.... and not too many aussies are into winter sports as well...
When I first rode on this train, it was running all year around and there was no snow when I travelled. And it was much cheaper.
Riveting: will taka a trip from Canberra next season - too old for skiing but ever a rail aficionado .....
i remember and been on when they run busses in the tunnel before the train was started
I think the target market for the Greyhound bus would be people coming from interstate who don't want to hire a car. They fly to Sydney or Canberra then take the bus, then the train to the resorts.
Been down there many times i snow season and i didn't know this train existed, but at 110 dollars I think I will avoid a random trip on it.
Interesting fact: the train was custom made to fit the width of the tunnel, Ive watched all the old docos on Snowy Mountains TV in Jindabyne over 20 years of skiing 😉