Melbourne's Transport Privatisation Mess: The Split!

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  • Опубліковано 6 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 370

  • @markjones7687
    @markjones7687 2 роки тому +517

    Nah, Taitset. The single stupidest decision regarding public transport in living memory has to be to sell off the land reserved for the Doncaster line by the Cain-Kirner government. Trains speeding down the central reserve of the freeway past the gridlock of the Eastern car park would have been the most emphatic statement of the value of a good mass-transit system possible.

    • @Taitset
      @Taitset  2 роки тому +122

      Fair call!

    • @timmymorris91
      @timmymorris91 2 роки тому +22

      I didn’t know about this but I’m picturing it now and it’s amazing.

    • @hjf3022
      @hjf3022 2 роки тому +40

      This is how it works in Perth. At least for the northern suburbs line. And it definitely is a good advertisement when you are going to work averaging 20km/h at 7:30am

    • @cowaylon1681
      @cowaylon1681 2 роки тому +14

      @@hjf3022 also on the southern line down to Mandurah

    • @lizziebkennedy7505
      @lizziebkennedy7505 2 роки тому +12

      Kennett privatised our pub,is transport and signed over city link to trans urban for decades. You just want to knock a Labor govt and you’re too ignorant to find an example that might interest more than 20k ppl.

  • @sophie.m.pilbeam
    @sophie.m.pilbeam 2 роки тому +143

    As someone who's sat opposite that fabric for hundreds of hours, 12:39 is a Planet of the Apes-tier twist ending. My God.

    • @Taitset
      @Taitset  2 роки тому +42

      I remember it just hitting me one day when I was staring at the seat opposite me. This was probably 15 years ago. I posted about it on railpage at the time (using the same image I used in this video) and all the grumpy old dudes told me I was just seeing things.. Daniel Bowen also blogged about it around the same time, so it was moderately well known for a while. The remarkable thing is it appears in all the X'traps ordered long after Connex vanished. I would love to know if the people producing it/Metro realised.

    • @griffinrails
      @griffinrails 2 роки тому +6

      @@Taitset Typical for RailPage.

    • @closeben
      @closeben Рік тому +6

      You split it up! You maniacs! Damn you! Damn you all to heck!!

    • @npmontgomery
      @npmontgomery Рік тому +5

      Lol at 6:23: 'the Siemens weren't very good at stopping'

    • @theorangeoof926
      @theorangeoof926 Рік тому

      @@npmontgomeryI can imagine it going like: “See-ya-man” as soon as it runs off the platform failing to break

  • @RiffRaffMama.
    @RiffRaffMama. 2 роки тому +42

    Ok, I lost my shit at the picture of Jeff Kennett. Well played.

  • @IndigoIndustrial
    @IndigoIndustrial 2 роки тому +34

    I can't believe I just watched a video about trains/trams in my home town - and enjoyed it.
    Well done - I appreciate the attention to detail.

  • @rememberingthefuture9500
    @rememberingthefuture9500 2 роки тому +62

    To expand on some of your points: Tram depots had been progressively converted into 'business units' as a precursor to eventual privatisation. This led to no sharing of routes between depots, and limiting tram types at each depot. Also, South Melbourne Depot was relocated to Southbank because it was the only depot that operated both north-south and east-west city streets, which did not fit the 'split system' model. Prior to Kennett, tram depots shared some routes, either full-time (eg 1, 15) or part-time (eg 8, 55). There were plans to enlarge South Melbourne Depot (using the former per-way yard) and much renovation work had already been done - it was on land leased from another government department, and the plan involved a 'swap' for Elwood and/or Malvern Depots. Under Kennett's agenda the 'land swap' was cancelled and South Melbourne was relocated to Southbank and became part of Yarra Trams.
    The newer Comeng trains with disc brakes ended up with Hillside because Bayside didn't want them. Not sure if that was management or union initiative, but the disc brake trains were generally disliked by drivers. The D class trams were a bad design not only for the reasons you mention, but also because much interior space is taken up by housing for equipment, resulting in a lack of seats and indeed overall capacity.

  • @BCCorsa
    @BCCorsa 2 роки тому +84

    Inside tip: since the Siemens trains were modified with changes to the brake control and software, and also the addition of sanding equipment, they are the best trains for stopping in slippery conditions. They're also similar in reliability to the x'traps and have the smoothest ride of the fleet

    • @Jordan-288
      @Jordan-288 2 роки тому +12

      Yeah and seats that are ridiculously thin for any journey longer than 20 minutes. Maybe better than the X'Trap but they still fall a long way short of being described as "good"

    • @lachlanbaker2031
      @lachlanbaker2031 2 роки тому +4

      I reckon HCMTs are smoother now :)

    • @Jordan-288
      @Jordan-288 2 роки тому +2

      @@lachlanbaker2031 Ugly interiors, but other than that the HCMT'S are certainly an improvement.

    • @jdillon8360
      @jdillon8360 2 роки тому

      The Siemens are my least favourite train in Melbourne. I hate that they only have 2 doors per carriage, the slab side reflects the sunlight like a mirror, the seats are thin and uncomfortable, and they are "too" quiet inside, meaning you can hear someone talking on their phone in the next carriage. Give me the X'Trapolis trains anyday, as a passenger.

    • @emiliobraulio
      @emiliobraulio Рік тому +2

      @@jdillon8360 I agree on the seats - the Comeng and X'Trapolis are comfortable to sit in. Also, the Siemens, HCMT and X'Trapolis 2.0 might have open gangways, but it's a disadvantage when someone defecates in the middle of the train and the smell disperses through the whole train.

  • @DeGuerre
    @DeGuerre Рік тому +17

    The persistent rumour at the time was that the point of the split was not as competition for passengers, but competition for the eventual reunification of the network. They knew one operator would fail, and the other would clearly be better. If so, it didn't occur to anyone that the failing operator would run the system into the ground in order to save as much money as possible.

  • @michaelsimmons6651
    @michaelsimmons6651 Рік тому +7

    The Jeff Kennett visual gag is one of the funniest things I’ve seen on UA-cam. Well played sir

  • @redroadrunner
    @redroadrunner 2 роки тому +25

    I found this video fantastic - love the abundance of archived footage and photos. You clearly put a lot of thought into this!

    • @nomadMik
      @nomadMik 2 роки тому +2

      Yes, and the stock footage of Jeff Kennett was particularly well timed. 😉

  • @amanbytheway
    @amanbytheway 2 роки тому +25

    Imagine privatising a public service...

    • @calcutt4
      @calcutt4 Рік тому

      Thank fuck we didn't end up as bad as the USA, land of the fee...

  • @nullifye7816
    @nullifye7816 2 роки тому +15

    The met logo, the green and yellow livery, the metcards, all give me intense nostalgia, it was a feature of my childhood I'd almost forgotten. Somehow it all seems a bit friendlier and more human than the mykis and minimalist interiors of today.

    • @calcutt4
      @calcutt4 Рік тому +1

      I like the mets old logo, I want to get it on a tshirt one day and see how many people mistake it for an obscure band or something

  • @EssexWolf1993
    @EssexWolf1993 2 роки тому +79

    Connex earned itself a bit of a bad reputation here in the UK, when it operated the Southeastern and South Central rail franchises from the late 1990s to around 2004, in Kent and East Sussex. It even inherited old 40/45 year old slam-door trains, repainted in a rather eyesore livery of white with a yellow lower stripe.

    • @MervynPartin
      @MervynPartin 2 роки тому +17

      It was a very poor reputation, too, hence their welcome termination.

    • @EssexWolf1993
      @EssexWolf1993 2 роки тому +6

      @@MervynPartin 100% accurate!

    • @WerewolfLord
      @WerewolfLord 2 роки тому +11

      As soon as I saw the Connex logo in the thumbnail, I knew it was going to be bad.

    • @dronespace
      @dronespace 2 роки тому +2

      @@WerewolfLord lol

    • @jonathan_8908
      @jonathan_8908 2 роки тому +11

      Connex [which eventually changed its name to Veolia (which eventually changed its name to Transdev)]: Passengers will enjoy the same quality of service they’ve come to expect wherever in the world they see the Connex/Veolia/Transdev brand, whether via bus or rail!
      Passengers: So incompetence all around…… Spectacular……

  • @planetX15
    @planetX15 2 роки тому +15

    Excellent and very informative video from you as always, love watching the history of Melbourne's transport

  • @jackybeck2479
    @jackybeck2479 11 місяців тому +2

    When I was on the way to the 2022 Australian Grand Prix by train from South Morang, I saw a HCMT in the yard at Epping workshops, I guess that means they can also visit Epping occasionally like the Siemens?

    • @Taitset
      @Taitset  11 місяців тому +2

      Yeah they took them up there for some testing around that time, also went out to Upper Feentree Gully.

    • @jackybeck2479
      @jackybeck2479 11 місяців тому +2

      @@Taitset Okay cool, thank you. I saw some videos by Railways of Doom that had HCMTs perform late night tests on the Mernda line, so it must be that testing thing you said

  • @brettcoster4781
    @brettcoster4781 Рік тому +11

    At the time of the split, there was no requirement for local content for either train line. That quickly changed when the Kennet government got Jeffed and Labor came in. I was a contract technical writer at IFE-Tebel, then in Narre Warren, manufacturing tram and train doors, and toilet modules etc. I was mainly there to update the technical manuals for work they were doing for Delhi Metro and Hong Kong rail. So, suddenly I had to put together instructions on how, with the use of a crane, two workers could install a plug-slide door into a Siemens carriage in no more than about 3 hours. The manager, one draftsman, and I workshopped the process so I could document it. I came up with an A4-sized diagram showing the How-to that was then laminated and sent along with a couple of pages of instructions as part of IFE-Tebel's proposal to Siemens. We found out that Siemens had spent a couple of years with another company to work out how to fit the carriage doors, so we didn't really expect to get the contract.
    But they did. All of the doors for the Siemens carriages were made by IFE-Tebel in Victoria (you can find the branding on top(?) of the doors when opened), shipped to Bavaria (or Austria, can't remember which) to be fitted, and then the carriages were shipped back to Victoria.
    And the reason that the Siemens carriages have only 2 doors is because they arre much wider than the other carriage doors, although that difference wasn't great enough for most passengers to notice.

  • @punkrockzoologist9449
    @punkrockzoologist9449 Рік тому +5

    Brilliant archival photo of Jeff Kennet you found there.

  • @paul-morgan
    @paul-morgan 2 роки тому +8

    Brilliant piece mate. I have been a south-eastern boy all my life, Frankston line and now Sandringham.
    Your video answered so many little queries I had over the years, and some questions I never even thought of asking.
    Fascinating stuff!

  • @ThisIsARubbishName
    @ThisIsARubbishName 2 роки тому +4

    Huh, that explains why we have different types of trams!
    I listened to this one walking around the supermarket and got the giggles up. Good vids mate!

  • @MetroManMelbourne
    @MetroManMelbourne 2 роки тому +118

    Excellent video. The logic behind the split was so silly that I do wonder why anyone thought it was a good idea in the first place. It's interesting to think what would have happened if the system hadn't been privatised (or at least hadn't been split) and we had one operator for the whole system or at least per mode to this day. Perhaps maybe we'll see the met return (in a way) in 2024? Sure hope so.

    • @Taitset
      @Taitset  2 роки тому +6

      Yeah indeed, history could have very easily been very different.

    • @Dave_Sisson
      @Dave_Sisson 2 роки тому +27

      While I don't think splitting trains and trams was a great idea, there were two good reasons for franchising the running of train and tram operations that both political teams have shown they agree with.
      The first is that the bidders thought they could run things more efficiently, meaning they bid for a much lower subsidy than the network was recieving at the time. The government could then spend that saved money on worthy things like schools, hospitals and reducing the states debt. The second reason was that it distanced politicians from anything negative about transport operations. When the system was run by bureaucrats, the politicains copped the blame for anything that went wrong. But for the past 25 years the pollies can just blame the operating company and genuinely state that they have no control of train operations.

    • @paulorocky
      @paulorocky 2 роки тому +8

      The Japanese model of privatisation may have been better than the UK model that the State of Victoria adopted.

    • @Taitset
      @Taitset  2 роки тому +11

      How does the Japanese model work?

    • @lachlanbaker2031
      @lachlanbaker2031 2 роки тому +2

      @@Dave_Sisson very informative. Exactly the same as the UK and sadly it did not work. But still, after privatisation the state of the network has improved drastically

  • @griffinrails
    @griffinrails 2 роки тому +18

    Amazing video, I always loved the M>Train and M>Tram livery.
    I'd love to see a video on the original private operators back in the 1850s and 60s, but good luck finding info and photos.
    It's also great to see a bunch of stuff from The Split that's been unobtainable until now. Maybe a picture compilation for each operator? I don't know.
    Fantastic video, loved the old MSTS shots too.

  • @johnlang4198
    @johnlang4198 2 роки тому +20

    There was no logic in the split, only ideology. It's telling that in the birthplace of that particular model of privatization, Britain, that they're in the process of letting train operating companies' contracts expire, thereby slowly re-nationalizing the network into British Rail again.

  • @asherjackson4504
    @asherjackson4504 2 роки тому +8

    This was such a great video: really clear and concise analysis and just great points overall. Really impressive!

  • @RohanMcMaster
    @RohanMcMaster 2 роки тому +20

    Good stuff as always! And at 0:29 a very correct interpretation of Jeff Kennet

  • @Mina56
    @Mina56 2 роки тому +6

    So that’s why as I child in 2005 I thought there were silver trains! Thanks for the vid! I always wondered why different trains/ trams where found in some parts of the city. Never saw the mernda type trains on the upfield line etc.

  • @regionaltrainspotter
    @regionaltrainspotter 2 роки тому +1

    Nice work! At 3:07 I think that is the most sliver-looking side of a Hitachi I've ever seen in that era, most pictures in that era of Hitachi's look so baked up from the sun and discolored. Makes their nickname 'Sliver trains' debatable...

  • @davemail66
    @davemail66 2 роки тому +2

    Most enjoyable and informative viewing indeed, thank you for posting.

  • @simonrailways
    @simonrailways 2 роки тому +2

    I'm glad your video helped me knowing more about the 1997-2004 railway privatisation :)

  • @hugeiftrue4224
    @hugeiftrue4224 2 роки тому +1

    I forgot how colourful a character Jeff Kennet was in the 90s. Which 1991 press conference was that pic at 0:30 from?

  • @kallancarruthers2640
    @kallancarruthers2640 2 роки тому +5

    Awesome video!! I grew up on the Craigieburn & Upfield lines and always wondered why we firstly got the Siemens trains seemingly very late, and secondly never had the X'traps. We seemingly were forever riding the Comengs and even had the last Hitachi doing the rounds into the 2010's!!
    I always thought we had the old trains due to socio-economic reasons and that the Siemens were older/inferior to the X'traps, but I had not realied the line seperation as Connex was the sole operator by the time I was paying any attention. Maybe there is something to read into about the intial line division and why they were parted in such an odd way.

  • @Rheilffordd
    @Rheilffordd 2 роки тому +6

    “Signalling the end of their M-Pire…”
    Very underrated use of puns there, well done! I will like the video purely because of it 😁

    • @Taitset
      @Taitset  2 роки тому +2

      I was waiting for somebody to appreciate that lol

    • @calcutt4
      @calcutt4 Рік тому +1

      and the sadface comeng :(

  • @icebaby6714
    @icebaby6714 2 роки тому +1

    I love Connex and Yarra Trams...thank you so much for the wonderful video (nobody has ever done that), it reminds me of the great time I enjoyed on the trains and trams during my school days in the 80s & 90s and how much has been changed throughout the years in Melbourne's public transport networks.

  • @haweater1555
    @haweater1555 2 роки тому +8

    In Canada, we're just so jealous that you have so many electrified suburban lines.

  • @woodybalfour8213
    @woodybalfour8213 2 роки тому +1

    Brilliant :) Thanks so much for this...As a train and tram lover of Melbourne, it was hard to see the network carved up and sold off. Keep up the good work ;)

  • @pierremainstone-mitchell8290
    @pierremainstone-mitchell8290 2 роки тому +1

    At the time I said that the split was a complete ballsup! Thank you muchly for the detailed explanation!

  • @bloodydoll5897
    @bloodydoll5897 2 роки тому +1

    this is a really good video. it is really calm and comprehensive, and uses words I like! its pretty good!
    it is also easy to follow without context

  • @macodanz
    @macodanz Рік тому

    Great video. Definitely a trip down memory lane. Growing up during that time I was always so intrigued.

  • @sliMELB
    @sliMELB 10 місяців тому +2

    Do you have a source for the train and tram split rationale (to create competition)? I haven't been able to find anything in relation to this.

  • @paulmcgaw6976
    @paulmcgaw6976 2 роки тому

    What a wonderful video! I've been in trains since 2011. I've been in the Pakenham love, Belgrave love and now the Werribee line. We still have a lot of the old Comeng trains, but the Belgrave lone certainly has newer trains!

  • @skippatrippa
    @skippatrippa 2 роки тому +5

    Honestly very very interesting stuff. Very entertaining hearing about all this history just a little bit before my time. I'd love to hear more about V-line and regional rail in Vic as my old man actually used to be the company secretary (essentially lawyer ) for V-line and oversaw the returning of V-line to the government back in the early 00's and most likely oversaw issues of branding and such. He also told me an entertaining story about how V-line was essentially bought back for $2 from National Express during insolvency and my father essentially fished out $2 from his own pocket to pay for it. Also told me about how V-line practically tried to give away the XPT train owned by Vic but NSW didn't want it haha. Also another story about how a man tried to sue v-line because he thought the trains (legally required to whistle) were whistling at him and talking to him. But yeah very interesting to hear these stories from that era of transport privatisation.

  • @melbournemetrotrainsvlogs9401
    @melbournemetrotrainsvlogs9401 2 роки тому +6

    Great video! I learnt a lot.

  • @PiersDJackson
    @PiersDJackson Рік тому

    An exploration of ALL the products that National Express operated in Melbourne: the aforementioned M>Train and M>Tram, but also the former Fitzroy North and Doncaster East Bus Depots (Footscray and Sandringham being the competition).

  • @mvfc7637
    @mvfc7637 2 роки тому +2

    Ah memories, riding on the Hitachi trains in the middle of summer was an experience, no air-conditioning and it was a 50/50 proposition if the window could open where you were seated and the last time I travelled on one was during the Commonwealth Games in February 2006 as they had bought them out of retirement to increase capacity, none of ths passengers were impressed….lol.

  • @laurawilson5119
    @laurawilson5119 Рік тому +1

    As a Sandringham and sometimes Frankston line user, Comeng trains are still a regular experience of my journey. I had always wondered why different lines had more modern trains, and with Frankston seemingly running fewer Comeng trains I had assumed it was because Sandringham normally terminates at Flinders St to come right back, whereas the other lines seem to become another line and travel through the city - (I don't know if it has any logic given that Frankston is having a big upgrade with the crossing removals but Sandringham seemingly will keep on being the same). On a side note, I know the Hitachi's had no A/C so this is a very 21st-century observation, but in summer, the difference between the A/C in the Comeng and the Siemen is quite apparent. This was fascinating to learn as I have very very vague recollections of the m>train, but connex was the company I most associate trains with in my childhood recollection, as in my memory trains were usually dressed in green and yellow livery.

    • @Taitset
      @Taitset  Рік тому

      Glad you found it informative! The Sandringham line is very self contained - it normally operates with the same handful of trains just running back and forth all day, while the Frankston line runs through with Werribee/Williamstown. I am currently working on another video which will elaborate on some of this stuff a bit! :)

  • @Greenman5582
    @Greenman5582 2 роки тому +6

    I've never heard the nickname "X'Trampoline" before. Suits them well, as I think even on the (relatively) smooth tracks of the Sydney suburban network you'd still be in for a real bouncy ride. 'X'tractionless' would be a good one as well.

    • @calcutt4
      @calcutt4 Рік тому

      I call them "headbangers" or simply "dogshit"

  • @Taitset
    @Taitset  2 роки тому +13

    While we're on the topic of ol' mate Jeff, I actually met him once: in about 2015 I was working at a certain Melbourne camera store, and he came in to buy a battery charger. He complained about the price and tried to haggle with us!

    • @blueycarlton
      @blueycarlton 2 роки тому +10

      Poor bloke he is receiving only a taxpayer funded Premiers pension, like the rest of us he must be struggling.

    • @graemegalvin811
      @graemegalvin811 2 роки тому +3

      I came across him one quiet Sunday morning walking through Wattle Park in the 80's when he was opposition leader. I now compare the event, in a fanciful way, with how close the Diggers were to Hitler during WW1. Ha Ha.

    • @calcutt4
      @calcutt4 Рік тому +1

      @@graemegalvin811 I can't tell if the historical innacuracy in your comparison is part of the joke or not, but either way it makes it funnier

  • @datbeast74
    @datbeast74 2 роки тому +1

    I knew there had to be a reason why the trains I take on the Hurstbridge line and the trains my friends take on lines like Werribee and Pakenham are so strangely different. Thanks for the explainer

  • @YinandYangandGreen
    @YinandYangandGreen 7 місяців тому +1

    Jeff Kennett's picture was one of his better ones. I concur that the privatisations were disastrous and that it's hard to stand in the X-Trampoline class for example just west of Box Hill station.

  • @merca_00
    @merca_00 2 роки тому +2

    Whats the singling of the bendigo line? Mentioned at 4:41

    • @Taitset
      @Taitset  2 роки тому +2

      The Bendigo line was built entirely double track in 1862, but was reduced to single track between Kyneton and Bendigo as part of the Regional Fast Rail project circa 2004. The line has got massively busier since then and it's been really limiting.

    • @merca_00
      @merca_00 2 роки тому +2

      That is stupid that they reduced it to single, The amount of times ive had to wait for another train to pass going from bendigo to castlemaine is shocking

    • @edmundcarew7235
      @edmundcarew7235 2 роки тому +1

      "Thanks" Peter Batchelor, who refused to back down from doing this. The single track was at some locations placed in the 'middle' to make restoration of a second track even harder. Failure!

  • @charlesbrain3872
    @charlesbrain3872 2 роки тому +6

    Great vid! Apparently the Comeng are still more reliable and nicer to ride in than their respective “update counterparts”.

    • @ceebee23
      @ceebee23 2 роки тому +2

      absolutely ....

    • @calcutt4
      @calcutt4 Рік тому +2

      100%, they have the better seats of the x'traps and the better suspension of the siemens, they're less ugly, they have (or had, I think it's being changed) more seats, their humming and rattling is far nicer than the ghastly screeching of the newer trains, they have old-style 3 tone horns, doors that can be pushed shut in terrible weather, and in general they feel like they were built to a higher quality, the x'traps especially feel very cheap and nasty. They're a relic of the Good Ole Days when everything was built in Australia and the railways were run by somewhat incompetent bureaucrats instead of greedy corporations

    • @charlesbrain3872
      @charlesbrain3872 Рік тому +1

      @@calcutt4 well said!!

  • @Maccas-qt6nf
    @Maccas-qt6nf Рік тому +1

    3:59 wasn't it metlink > Viclink then PTV?

    • @Taitset
      @Taitset  Рік тому

      I think Viclink was just the regional part of Metlink.

    • @Maccas-qt6nf
      @Maccas-qt6nf Рік тому

      @@Taitset Makes sense since I found viclink on the old Deer Park station platform sign

  • @minixt9835
    @minixt9835 Рік тому +1

    12:39 I've been sitting on top of a dead body this entire time
    damn

  • @mattk183
    @mattk183 2 роки тому +1

    This is amazing, I leant so much! Love the metlink cup

    • @Taitset
      @Taitset  2 роки тому +1

      Cheers! It is a good mug, can't actually remember where I got it. The handle is held on with super glue though after slight incident!

  • @WillJamesRailways
    @WillJamesRailways 2 роки тому +1

    Excellent work!

  • @peterkarras8523
    @peterkarras8523 2 роки тому +1

    I remember the train strikes of 1997, and stickers saying,"Robin Cooper Robbin Super". And when I was going home from work the train I was on stopped outside of then Spencer Street Station when the driver announced over the speaker saying, "there's a technical difficulty with the signals where going to here for a while blame the government". Then some people began to leave the train by taking a dangerous walk across the railway tracks. And it was night time too

  • @sebthealien
    @sebthealien 2 роки тому +1

    make more of these they're so facinating

  • @clawscrab3497
    @clawscrab3497 Рік тому

    I notice the Hitachi at 2:22 displays East Doncaster on the headboard...

    • @Taitset
      @Taitset  Рік тому

      Yep it was on a railfan tour!

  • @senorliamy17
    @senorliamy17 2 роки тому +2

    What is with the 'premium' stations highlighted on the train maps? I have been to Upper FTG Station (on Belgrave) multiple times, and its infrastructure looked pretty aged. Oh, well, power of time.

    • @Taitset
      @Taitset  2 роки тому +2

      'Premium' just means they're staffed and have toilets. It's a pretty lame term!

  • @popoyoyo-q5t
    @popoyoyo-q5t 2 роки тому +1

    growing up in the 90s south east, this divide of train network was a massive influence on my life and i didnt even know there was a reason for it

  • @medwaymodelrailway7129
    @medwaymodelrailway7129 2 роки тому

    Enjoyed your video very much thanks for sharing DD.

  • @juddlewis9939
    @juddlewis9939 2 роки тому

    Love watching your explanation videos another great one

  • @hazptmedia
    @hazptmedia 2 роки тому

    Excellent video describing what happened

  • @MrBCorp
    @MrBCorp 2 роки тому

    Excellent video full on golden info. Well done.
    I prefer the Siemens trains because they have more leg room. I haven't tried the new trains but I've heard they have even less leg room than any of the others. What a mess.

  • @graemegalvin811
    @graemegalvin811 2 роки тому

    The Xtrapolis trains visit Craigieburn under floor wheel lathe only. They are not maintained in the main workshop building.

  • @isabeller6506
    @isabeller6506 Рік тому

    I'm very confused why the train at 2:21 says East Doncaster?? No train has ever gone there right?

    • @Taitset
      @Taitset  Рік тому +3

      The old physical destination rolls had lots of 'what if' places on the list, so they wouldn't have to be altered if the line got extended.

  • @morgan1122s
    @morgan1122s 2 роки тому

    i keep coming over your videos and i love them XD

  • @razenburn
    @razenburn Рік тому

    Cheers for educating my on my states bs. I lived through the whole thing but you only get so much info when you're a kid/teen using the system in the 90s when you've got other things on your mind.

  • @PCLoadLetter
    @PCLoadLetter 2 роки тому +1

    The V/Line bit at the end missed out how the Shepparton and Warrnambool lines were meant to be replaced by buses, except that tenders from West Coast Railway and Hoys Buslines (ironically) involved separate privately operated train fleets on those lines respectively.
    WCR built up their own fleet of B and S class locomotives and S and Z type cars. Plus two R class steam locomotives on a flagship Saturday service. They had their own crews, but mostly just used V/Line crews on weekdays. Hoys just leased ordinary N class locomotives and N cars off V/Line, run with V/Line crews.
    These were rolled back into V/Line for various reasons.

    • @calcutt4
      @calcutt4 Рік тому

      I wish WCR was still around

  • @FloydBromley
    @FloydBromley 2 роки тому +6

    Nice video. I believe the Xtrapolis are technically approved to run network wide (or at least almost network wide), but just don’t on a regular basis. For example an Xtrapolis has been as far as Brighton Beach (not sure about Sandringham) for clearance testing. It’s just the “all clear” results of that test haven’t been put to use in a meaningful way.

    • @aidanthomas2510
      @aidanthomas2510 2 роки тому

      The only lines they don't run on at all, that I know of, are the Sunbury, Craigieburn, Upfield, Sandringham & Cranbourne/Pakenham lines. The rest I believe they have run on in some form.

    • @70sVRsignalman
      @70sVRsignalman 2 роки тому +1

      Hello Floyd, as Xtrap maintenance is primarily based at Epping, it makes sense to schedule Xtrap trains to the CHL and BLY Groups only. There are enough Comeng and Seimens trains to cover the other lines.

  • @MervynPartin
    @MervynPartin 2 роки тому +2

    Very interesting report on Melbourne's transport systems.
    As we also found out to our cost in the UK, political dogma trumps common sense (not just with transport, but with health, energy, business, etc). Government ministers hop from one post to another without ever having a passion for their portfolio.
    We have had the same privatisation problems with incompatible fleets, lack of flexibility, very uncomfortable trains, operating company failures, train manufacturing defects, false accounting, and Connex!.
    When British Rail had changed to an efficient, business led organisation, the train services around London (other than the London Underground) were operated by the Network Southeast sector, who made great improvements to trains and services. Sadly lost.
    Part of the government dogma included rubbishing all the improvements achieved such that some younger people actually believe that British Rail was badly run.
    Transport for London, under the control of the Mayor, operates the Underground, Overground, Docklands Light Railway, and Tramlink and has had major financial problems, with Crossrail (now called the Elizabeth Line in hope of collecting a few knighthoods) years behind schedule and way overbudget, so the Mayor keeps threatening Underground line closures, despite spending (with our taxes) more per head than anywhere else in the country.

  • @stely_official
    @stely_official 8 місяців тому

    This is a late comment, but recently just learning that V/Line maybe weren’t so far off of being rebranded too, the original plans for VLocity trains and the rebuild of Spencer Street show a very appealing Aqua and Silver colour scheme with the name V-Link. Spencer Street also never got a name change in those original plans, and Regional Trains were possibly being planned to be replaced by European style DMU trains

  • @beauy1980
    @beauy1980 2 роки тому +4

    Great video! I can see why no other state rushed to copy this model of public transport operations, and Melbourne is still dealing with the legacy of this terrible idea!

    • @mark123655
      @mark123655 2 роки тому

      NSW hasn't with their trains (well other than the Metro, which is privately operated by MTS - same owners and MTM).
      They have with the buses which are split into 14 regions, with 10 different operators at present, and also with Light Rail and Ferries.

  • @tressteleg1
    @tressteleg1 2 роки тому +2

    I thought you may have made mention of the reduced seating, with 2 + 2 seating becoming the usual - less seats, more area for the hapless cattle to stand, but post Covid a driver has told me that seeing standees on any train at any time at the moment is quite rare. If working from home continues to some degree, it may be many years before old loadings are reached again.

    • @mvfc7637
      @mvfc7637 2 роки тому

      the only positive from COVID are the empty trains and platforms.

    • @tressteleg1
      @tressteleg1 2 роки тому +2

      @@mvfc7637 Well it would be a relief from over-packed trains of the past. Actually I would be interested in you loading observations. Personally I think transport planners everywhere are grossly over estimating numbers returning to pre-Covid levels as it seems that a good percentage of the workforce will continue to work from home at least some days. They may never return full-time. Casual observations of my local Gold Coast tram are that numbers are much the same as ever, even though foreign Uni students are somewhat down on before.

    • @mvfc7637
      @mvfc7637 2 роки тому +2

      @@tressteleg1 I travelled to the CBD last week and had to catch a train back from Flinders St station during an early afternoon on a Friday, the platform was dead and this is one of Melbourne’s busiest lines. In relation to workers in the CBD etc, I estimate about 40% have returned simply by the fact that busy retail areas such as the cnr of Elizabeth and Flinders St allow you to walk at a brisk pace up the street without being slowed down by the usual plodders in front of you, furthermore, I don’t think it’ll ever return to what it was, people do not want to commute to the CBD on congested roads and public transport anymore.

    • @tressteleg1
      @tressteleg1 2 роки тому +2

      @@mvfc7637 Many thanks for your observations. It seems we both agree that a percentage of city workers are gone for good. That will tend to make White Elephants of Melbourne’s’metro tunnel, Sydney’s Metro tunnel and Brisbane’s Cross River Rail tunnel, although of course all were planned and started well before Covid came along.

    • @mvfc7637
      @mvfc7637 2 роки тому +2

      @@tressteleg1 the ironic thing is that Melbourne’s train network has never looked so good as it does now, the state Govt spent a whole load of money during the pandemic updating the network, for example, every station now has a digital information board with up to date information on arriving trains, trains have accurate and audible announcements and the PTV app now includes live tracking of the scheduled trains, all this is what passengers in Melbourne have spent the last 20 years imploring the State Govt and private train operators to implement and they finally delivered, yet, no one is ever going to use the trains again…oh the irony…

  • @WickedFizz999
    @WickedFizz999 2 роки тому

    Great videos I love learning about the history of Melbourne trains and now I know why the Comeng's don't come to this hills no more!

  • @lukechill
    @lukechill 2 роки тому +4

    so does this explain what feels like a neglect for the north-west? I always thought that we were given the outdated models of both trains and trams because we are just 'those suburbs' but my takeaway from this is that the split caused some differences in infrastructure that make upgrading difficult? would love to see a video explaining this!

    • @Taitset
      @Taitset  2 роки тому +5

      Yeah, essentially it's because you don't have X'trapolis set because you're in former M>train territory, although they could certainly introduce X'traps up there now if they wanted to. As for trams, it's more to do with certain depots being allocated certain type of trams, and it's a bit hard to say what the specific reasons are for that.

    • @Taitset
      @Taitset  10 місяців тому

      @@mineyon-ms All explained in this one: ua-cam.com/video/9XbrRZrAqWA/v-deo.html

  • @FromtheWindowSeat
    @FromtheWindowSeat 2 роки тому

    Really interesting video. Thank you! 👌

  • @jadymulqueeney
    @jadymulqueeney 2 роки тому +1

    Thanks, a great recap of a less than rational time. The IT company I worked for in 2003 went bust because they were owed a lot of money by National Express, who left Victoria with many unpaid bills and no remorse. So many people suffered through that time. But that’s business isn’t it?

    • @calcutt4
      @calcutt4 Рік тому

      It's almost like essential services like public transport, or even worse, healthcare, don't work as well when privatised, because the operator will prioritise their own profits over quality of service!

  • @matthiasklapperstuck8575
    @matthiasklapperstuck8575 2 роки тому +1

    X-Trampoline!! Finally I know the proper nickname for those trains. I thought I was the only one noticing the bouncy ride

  • @annabelholland
    @annabelholland Рік тому

    UK expeirenced the same fate in 1994. I think in British Rail days, it was regional, intercity and commuter trains and now, it is 20 different companies.

  • @drliamo9049
    @drliamo9049 2 роки тому

    Just wondering, I used to live in Melbourne (now Brisbane) what station is that at 11:41? Is that Altona? I've been all over the train system down there yet don't remember a station near the water like that (apart from Brighton beach)

    • @Taitset
      @Taitset  2 роки тому

      It is Brighton Beach, looking over the stabling sidings.

    • @drliamo9049
      @drliamo9049 2 роки тому +1

      @@Taitset oh really?? Wow I totally forgot that they were there!!! Granted I've not been back down to Melbourne since 2011 so yeah. Nice 😁. Thank you kindly for getting back to me personally!! I often catch trains up here in Brisbane and I have to tell you it's nothing like down there.. Melbourne is worlds ahead in that department. There's so much thst could be improved up here train wise but unfortunately they don't have the foresight and our premier pours cash into white elephant projects like the "cross river rail" that is basically putting stations where there already are stations except underground and the "Brisbane metro". 🤦‍♂️

    • @drliamo9049
      @drliamo9049 2 роки тому

      @@Taitset Another thing, have you ever been up here and travelled on the trains? If so what's your general opinion compared to Melbourne? As I said I think Melbourne's streets ahead. We have a few different types of train up here, not exactly sure what the older ones are called but I know the "next generation rolling stock" as they are called are made by Bombadier and when they were first delivered in I think 2016 they were to big to enter the tunnels in between Roma St and Central, so that was another hilarious fail by QR

    • @Taitset
      @Taitset  2 роки тому

      @@drliamo9049 Yes I've been to Brisbane a few times, but have only really travelled between the airport and Roma St, and up to Caboolture. I quite like the network and all the trains are quite nice, but it would be good to get some frequency improvements!

  • @sq8771
    @sq8771 2 роки тому

    Thanks for sharing
    Those were the days

  • @jouebien
    @jouebien 2 роки тому +1

    There's a Unicode version of >< you can use in situations where there is sanitised text.

  • @JohnRolyAU
    @JohnRolyAU Рік тому

    meanwhile on the 57 59 and 82, it's still 1983.... Although they are building a new tram depot to house the new trams finally off the 82 line near Highpoint

  • @Floppypastafilling
    @Floppypastafilling 2 роки тому

    3:59 where can one buy that mug??

    • @Taitset
      @Taitset  2 роки тому

      It's the only one I've ever seen sorry!

  • @lachlanmillsteed6825
    @lachlanmillsteed6825 2 роки тому +1

    would be nice to upgrade the suspension on the X Trapolis to one that is air suspension instead of coil. mind you to do so would cost way more than to replace the whole fleet with a brand new one like the HCMT

  • @horseydoggygurl
    @horseydoggygurl 2 роки тому

    I was so disappointed when I moves from the glen waverley line to the pakenham/cranbourne line as I love the x’traps and hate riding the comengs. I always wondered why I only ever found x’traps on the eastern lines, but now it makes sense

  • @damienhudson8028
    @damienhudson8028 21 день тому

    12:40 you know i am not a train nerd because I did not know this..... thanks !

  • @Ethantea1356
    @Ethantea1356 Рік тому

    What was the singling of the Bendigo line?

  • @multiranger748
    @multiranger748 2 роки тому

    Is there any back story behind "Metlink" I still see it on some xtrapolis trains and at train stations on signs indicating street exits and or platform 1/2 entrances.

    • @Taitset
      @Taitset  2 роки тому +1

      It was basically just the previous name of PTV, though I think it's scope might have been a bit more limited back then too. Any stickers still around would just be ones that have been missed. Good job spotting it on an X'trap, I've seen that too and I think it might be just one single set!

    • @calcutt4
      @calcutt4 Рік тому +1

      @@Taitset On the topic of that, when I went to the old Lilydale station before the LXRP there were logos of The Met on the windows and a phone box with a teacup Vicrail logo on the cover

  • @Akkalia
    @Akkalia Рік тому

    I was curious how Vline fit in. Thanks for covering

  • @qlandr
    @qlandr 2 роки тому

    Great video. Very informative

  • @Liverpoolfcfever
    @Liverpoolfcfever 2 роки тому +1

    Can you do a video on the Bendigo line becoming single track

  • @ausie7of9
    @ausie7of9 2 роки тому +17

    The intent of competition amongst operators was never to give users options, rather it was to measure operators against punctuality, cancellations, maintenance metrics, ect.
    The idea being only the best franchise operators would be rewarded with bonuses and have contracts extended thereby creating a better service for users.
    That being said, you are right that it wasn't implemented well at all.

    • @MrGroganmeister
      @MrGroganmeister 2 роки тому +1

      Yes, quite correct about the reasons for drive for efficiency

    • @vk3ye
      @vk3ye 2 роки тому +1

      And so the govt could play one off against the other with it having a monopsony relationship with them. 'Competition for the market' rather than 'competition in the market'.

    • @ceebee23
      @ceebee23 2 роки тому +1

      the whole model failed .... the operators walked away when the going got tough ..... how many $$$ have been remitted in profit that could have been fed into the system ... privatisation failed fullstop

    • @MrGroganmeister
      @MrGroganmeister 2 роки тому +2

      @@ceebee23 if they were making profits why did they bail out?

    • @ceebee23
      @ceebee23 2 роки тому +2

      @@MrGroganmeister I think return on investment and longer term picture was not rosy ... the amount of $$$ they would need to put into the network was not profitable for them. Operating profits are one thing ...long term capital expenditure was another.

  • @Marsbarization
    @Marsbarization 2 роки тому

    Cool vid, as a western suburbs boy this was surreal as its just always been VLine

  • @ClamTram96
    @ClamTram96 2 роки тому +1

    4:04
    Keyword here is "competition" despite only one company serving a general area. Seems like buzzwords to try and justify selling off public assests if i may say so myself

  • @AdmiringSparks
    @AdmiringSparks 2 роки тому +1

    2:22 does that say east Doncaster

  • @julesbrunton1728
    @julesbrunton1728 2 роки тому +2

    20+ years ago I had a job sitting on buses counting how many of what kind of ticket was being used ...on and off every stop, just so the Gov knew how much they needed to subsidize the new private bus companies for accepting a ticket sold by a new private ticket company. FFS

  • @ChrisJohannsen
    @ChrisJohannsen 2 роки тому +1

    Was that a double decker train in Melbourne?!

  • @rubes3927
    @rubes3927 2 роки тому

    Ahhh, 90’s Melbourne 😂🤣😍 wow this makes me feel old. So many memories 🥲 This video answers SO many questions I had as a teenager 😂😂😂😂

  • @mikmac8486
    @mikmac8486 2 роки тому +5

    Brilliant telling of our networks history! Kennet created an absolute mess of the transport system along side the water, gas and electricity industries.

    • @IndigoIndustrial
      @IndigoIndustrial 2 роки тому

      All natural monopolies. The previous Labor govt did not get on top of the finances and it let Jeff get elected.

  • @aidenyoung4546
    @aidenyoung4546 2 роки тому

    Great vid!!