Kyle Kulinski Vs Cenk Uygur | RussiaGate Debate
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
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Clip from The Kyle Kulinski Show, which airs live on Blog Talk Radio and Secular Talk Radio Monday - Friday 11:00 AM - 12:30 PM Eastern time zone.
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Cenk: *cites article*
Kyle: That article was retracted
Cenk: I'll take a look at it
Cenk: *continues to cite that same article*
Kyle backing up his claims with studies and evidence and Cenk backing up his with hysteria and assumptions
Madlife Right? That's why I really respect Kyle. I know he is interested in facts and truth. Hope he never loses the ability to be this way. Peace.
Kyle also seems to have a far more defined moral framework
I'm only 21 minutes in and send like kyle is just talking about "okay but what are the consequences"
Watched the rest. No he didn't
Cenk dropped facts left and right, and Kyle responded with “I don’t care”, “I don’t see it that way”, and “So you want world war 3”, he took cenks words and then leaped to extreme positions and Cenk wasn’t even talking about that.
Props for such a detailed debate.
The Progressive Voice is a thicc boi 👌
Hey look, this "Young Turds" dipshit is still watching TYT. Atta boy! Keep supporting Kyle and the network buddy!
Hey I like you Progressive Voice but you need to get a better webcam and microphone bro
Cenk always won vs Ben but lost to Kyle
Dan Mannington lmao both Ben and kyle ripped this greasy water buffalo apart. You're smoking some good crack of you think Chunk Yogurt won
pretty clear Kyle won this debate.
movieman175 Right on!
Not really. I don't care is not an argument.
leqaf
"I don't care is not an argument."
Good thing that wasn't his argument then.
Darke Exelbirth
When cenk asked kyle why trump didn't want to enforce sanctions against Russia, kyle responded I don't care.
leqaf
I don't care either. That wasn't kyle's argument though, that was his response to cenk bringing up a bullshit point, because the sanctions Trump hasn't enforced are ones based on an unproven claim by the democratic party. Trump is in the right by not enforcing those sanctions, and the democrats should be fucking ashamed at that fact.
Kyle > Cenk
Kyle being better than Cenk isn't much of a compliment.
That Rachel Maddow guy is better than Gunk.
You're a goopy gape fart/// Hey I'm talking like an american now. What a bunch of fucking morons who deserve trump and all the mass shootings lol;)
I used to think so but I didn't know kyle could be so stupid.
International RTG Oh shit! You went there!
Kyle is so much more rational than Cenk it's unreal lmao
Gentry he's also a lot more objective on everything. However, it should be mentioned Cenk and Kyle agree on the greater and are essentially on the same side.
Kyle's Position: Trump has not done Putin's bidding.
Cenk's Position: Trump wanted to do Putin's bidding, but was unable to.
Sorry Cenk, but that's just not enough to go on.
Jason Harris
No, that's really not enough to get trump on conspiracy charges. You have to prove that there was conspiracy in the first place, which is actually pretty difficult to do. Meeting in the Trump tower? Not enough. Basically, anything short of there being a recording of Trump stating he is deliberately trying to do the bidding of the Russian government is not enough to get him on conspiracy.
Jason Harris
Yeah... you're comparing two completely different kinds of conspiracy charges first off, and second that was part of a drug trafficking sting operation and involved way more than just the 3 people you mentioned. Further, conspiring to traffic drugs is almost always tacked onto possession charges of significant quantities, and 100 kilograms is pretty significant.
dlancer2k
Cenk mentioned specific times information which trump didn't enforce sanctions against Russia...
leqaf
Yes, didn't enforce sanctions that are based on something that hasn't been proven to have even happened. Gee, that actually sounds rather fucking sensible.
dlancer2k But Trump IS doing Putin’s bidding... He is refusing to put the sanctions in place that our Legislative branch voted to do. That is dictator shit. He didn’t veto the sanctions because they are veto-proof, as nearly 100% of the senate and congress voted in favor of it. So this means our Secretary Of State (Exxon CEO) can make their multi billion dollar deal.
Amazing job Kyle
HeresyTalk um k.
It wasn't fair. Cenk lost his critical thinking long time ago...
Really impressed by the respect you guys showed each other this whole debate
They’re good longtime friends, nothing more expected than respectful disagreements
It's certainly a novel change, for Cenk.
Alex Adamczyk- Cenk did tell Kyle "that's crazy talk" and immediately took it back...That's the real Cenk.
Yeah, I liked that they kept the discussion very respectful, even with the disagreements.. Which is kind of what bothers me about reading all the UA-cam comments from people calling Cenk a "sellout" or a shill or something just because he has a few different views. Yeah, we can disagree on some topics, but that doesn't make him the enemy. He's still in the fight to get money out of politics, which is what we can ALL agree on. Cenk and Kyle both are honest guys who are trying to do their best to understand the issues and make judgments to find the best solutions. Will they always get it right? No, but they're human. They're not Corporate shills, as some would suggest(not saying you are, Alex, but I see so many commenters just spew absolute hatred for Cenk because he decided to vote for Hillary) they're still independent media and on the side of the American people; maybe with different ideas on how to get there, and they not always get it right or have the most popular opinions, but they're still on our side.
DavidGAZ123 - hahaha! you think that's why people call him a "sellout"? $20 million from corporate democrats makes him a sellout. duh. His views are their views. Kyle is funded by Patreon and youtube ads.
Rigged > Hacked > Colluded > Influenced, well gee seems the effect Russia has had on the election keeps getting smaller and smaller. Can't get much smaller than influenced since talking about the election is technically influencing whoever listens.
very few people said they rigged it. That would apply actully going in and changing a Hillary vote to a trump vote
Jon Smith
That's what the initial charge was, and trust me, a loooooooot of Hil-bot think that's actually what happened because of it.
Hacked also implies changing the votes, btw.
Darke Exelbirth not really if i push say a fake rape scandal on bernie in the news that changes votes and wrong but not a hack. only heard hacking in refrence to the dnc. to me this not about hillary clinton. they got into our registration databasr. maybe 2016 they didnt change anything. but if we dont protect it what to stop it from happenin in 2018 or 2020
+Jon Smith Oh, I distinctly remember at very least the implication that russia had done that, perhaps it was still back when they were crying about "hacking the election", because what the fuck does that even mean, when you say that most people are going to assume that russia actually, you know, hacked the election machines and changed votes. But no, the only actual charge they levelled was that the DNC servers got hacked (even though they didn't) and clinton's dirty laundry was aired for all to see. But this was just reported as "hacked the election". Eventually when it turned out there was zero evidence that russia hacked anything, even that petered out and they started crying "collusion".
Note, this has a very sinister purpose. Along with the hacking, they started yelling "fake news" so they could crack down on sources that reported on it, leading to all the demonetization, the crackdown on news sites that aren't corporate owned etc. When the narrative changed to collusion, now they've started directly going after their political enemies labelling people who tell the truth as "colluding" with the russians. I literally predicted this the moment they started going on about fake news and we saw it all happen. And I'm worried it will continue to a point where they're justifying war against Russia. Because this is PRECISELY what you do when you try to rally the population against an enemy militarily.
Jon Smith
I'm sorry, but when someone says over and over again "Russia hacked the election," that is clearly trying to get people to think Russia literally changed votes. If they were trying to inform people about Russia hacking the DNC (which is still completely unproven to this day), they wouldn't say "election," they would say "DNC."
That was a great debate. Well done, kyle
He says as if he's watched the entire video within 10 minutes of uploading
International RTG i watched it on tyt interviews
K
International RTG it was posted a long time ago on TYT interviews. Don't be an ass.
Prof. JermZ I didn't know because I don't watch TYT because it's crap
Kyle wins. Again.
T Gilly fuck Cenk
Carter Page said he was an agent for the Kremlin, was on the Trump team. Multiple plea deals, they are cooperating, Don Jr meeting with the lawyer in hopes of dirt on his opponents, this is a great conspiracy,
Flawless victory.Fatality.
Wow great work Kyle I think you should take on Ben Shapiro soon and whip the twerp smirk off his face!
DogpileTV He said he wouldn't do that because he feels that Shapiro is very disingenuous.
But you do have to agree Ben Shapiro does have great policy ideas. Even thought Kyle and Ben may disagree on a vast majority of things, there are some things that progressives an conservatives can agree on. Me personally I’m not a progressive. I’m more on the libertarian side such as Sargon of Akkad
Joseph, wtf man? Shapiro has awful policy ideas. The only thing he's spot on about is the same as Jordan Peterson: SJW bullshit. They are spot on, and use that as a boon to boost their popularity. Stupid leftists acting as the perfect right wing recruiting tool.
Lol, ok
Come on. Even Cenk beat Shapiro in their debate. And Cenk is an idiot compared to Kyle. Had they argued about SJW crap, Shapiro would've won, but he is just clueless when it comes to economics, and is generally just a fast talking idiot.
Kyenkle Kuygyrlinski sold out to *SeltzerSpace* .
Kylorge Sorinski
LOOOLLL
idiots
Hello there
You are a bold one.
Old....
I feel like Cenk kept detaching himself from the premise,
he kept trying to confirm that Trump colluded with Russia, when from the beginning, he himself said that the question was whether or not it was a big deal. 90% of the conversation didn't have anything to do with the premise.
I stopped watching TYT specifically because Cenk spends pretty much the entire first hour on Russia and Trump. I felt like I wasn't getting any news from TYT that I couldn't get from any MSM outlet. Kyle's always been better about covering the stories that often get overlooked.
Tensai55, I stopped watching when he endorsed Hillary and demanded everyone agree.
I stopped watching tyt when Cenk lost his shit about Sam Harris. I can’t stand that tyt becomes emotionally unhinged in 0-6 secs. I want to hear, news not a 2 hr shit talking session.
I stopped watching when he fired Jordan
You didn’t stop watching when Cenk straight up lied about Sam Harris?
A question for Cenk: Given the Russia hysteria is being used 1) as a shield for the corrupt corporate democrats, 2) to silence dissenting independent media, 3) to drown out discussion about critical social and global issues, and 4) to ramp up tension between the two nuclear-armed superpowers, thus also stoking nationalism and ethnic tensions, is the best route a) to let the investigation take its course, and keep reporting on it to a bare minimum so as not to contribute to the above nefarious activities, or b) to help disseminate the McCarthyist propaganda while displaying minimal scepticism about the veracity and motives of such propaganda?
you’re bigger than tyt
The Young Turds 💩 but that’s what I MEAN!!!!!!! lol he should release a diss track or something. Only thing that makes sense rn
The Young Turds he's independent. he's just associated with them.
The more tyt viewers that are swayed by Kyles way of reasoning the better
Tayyab Pirzada Guilty by association.
TYT is far more fake news than kyle
Had enough of Cenk, Kyle is in a different league, he is the true intellectual left!
Oh please stop with all this "destroyed Cenk" bullshit, this was more a discussion than a debate, theres nothing to win, only to learn.
Cenk and Kyle are both on the same side.
"Debates" like this only spur regressive nonsense from listeners who claim to be progressive.
Tons of the comments that just say "Kyle owned him" are likely Trump supporters or trolls. If they go into details then I am more likely to believe they might actually be progressive
+Alexander Platypus
That's about as sad as rightwingers screaming Fake News whenever they disagree with something. There is a 50+ minute video going into details dude, it's the one you're commenting on
Why are people hating on cenk. It's true Kyle is better but cenk is still correct on 80% stuff but can be wrong or sjw at times. That's annoying but doesn't warrant the amount of hate he gets. Smh
welcome to tribalism
Yeah I like Cenk. He's just more emotion on this issue than Kyle is.
trixosaurusrex you mean welcome to the regressive left. I’m in the center now.
Don't be offended, Ashbir Singh. These people are idiots. Also, they love to divide and conquer. They get off on it. "Kyle, you are bigger than TYT," "Jimmy you need to branch off on your own and leave TYT," etc, etc, etc, ad infinitum.
No biggie.
Holip sism yeah I agree.
Once again Kyle proves that facts > hysteria. Thanks for this interview!
Kyle blows Cenk away. TYT is definitely becoming MSNBC. I hardly watch anymore.
Frank Garcia He is partnered with TYT, but if you look closely, you can see a resemblance to Rachel Maddow
I dont see any similarities between Kyle and Maddow other then they both have short hair. With Cenk, I see plenty.
TYT is the Fox News of the left. Controlled opposition. They hook you and then reel you into the party's vampiric embrace. They will keep trying to drag Kyle into dissonance, but he's been too aware for the trap to work, so far.
State of Opportunity
lol. What a bunch of bullshit. Kyle is part of the TYT network already and has been for a long time.
Frank Garcia well no, not even slightly
An excellent and important discussion. I hope there will be a follow up as things continue to develop. We can disagree as progressives and still continue the political revolution.
Nice conversation. Interesting to watch.
Cenk is not even listening to Kyle
I just click on this to give kyle the view because i already watch on tyt
asombrosas invenciones tyt is trash
Me too, lol!
this was awesome. Kyle/Jimmy are the GOATS of progressive media.
Dore is a llama, not a goat
@@Yutani_Crayven
Least
Lame
American
Man
Around
The comment section on Pakman's videos hurt my head. Any slight disagreement or skepticism results in being ganged up on and labelled an "obvious Russian troll" like wtf.
same with TYT's comment section.
btw, its obvious what country you're from
Watched this already. Kyle had got it ALL OVER cenk. Just my opinion. I tend to agree with Kyle on this.
Sherry Spectre I agreed with kylo more. Forget the past.
Only thing I disagreed with him is letting allies fall if they get invaded, otherwise I agreed with everything else kyle said.
Wow. A ton of people scared of Russia. That's the only way you see Kyle winning. Kyle vetted EVERYTHING Cenk said, just handle Russia with kids gloves. Fuck that. Didn't WE let Putin take Georgia....
Cenk likes to play two sides to all his issues, when he says "on the other hand. . ." then comes his "establishment" side.
Did chenk always just make baseless statements and ignore his opponents points? Other than "OF COURSE OF COURSE" he doesn't actually work through any ideals....kinda makes me sad.
That's how it went in his debates against Ben Shapiro and Dinesh D'Souza. With Kyle he at least refrained from ad hominem attacks, and when there's an audience he'll say things like, "See, the audience is totally on my side and against you."
I actually like Cenk ok. Mostly. I guess. But he's a terrible debater.
Nahh. Look kyle keeps talking about the democrats and the consequences (ww3) instead of the events
He did none of those things, did you even watch it? Did you just skip Cenk's parts?
leqaf watched it on tyt interview channel 10 mins after it dropped. And found myself furious the Same way I was in the Harris debate. Kyle outright says we are being hawks on Russia. And chenk just flippantly agrees TO BEING AGRESSIVE WITH A NECULAR ARMED POWER. because muh emails.
Demonhunter027 no he didn't di that. And saying "we're being hawkish" doesn't excuse the russia.
Make me the 18th person that doesn't care about football or Sports in general Major League Baseball why do they have a World Series they're the only country in it makes no sense to me but none the less if the country paid attention to the politics as much as they did to sports we shouldn't and wouldn't have the problems we have. Our attention is not prioritized further more I agree with Kyle and Jimmy.
Well I mean... All the best baseball players in the world for the most part play in the major leagues. So it kinda makes sense.
Makes me the 19th person who doesn't watch sports lol. I agree I have friends stuck on the phone and tv updating their sports knowledge and saying "Fuck Donald Trump" At the same time. Like, "do you even know why you don't like him?" Mainstream media is a poison tbh
NHL is good though
Guess I really don't know nothing about sports I guess there's two teams in the world league but I'm the last still policies are better than Sports
reminds me of the time when my friends and i held the improball world championship when we were kids. just like baseball, nobody else understands the rules or gives a shit and therefore we were the best players in the world...
I feel happy that someone has same stand as me, that is kyle. I like the way he backs his arguments with facts and references. I hope kyle stands his ground in future.
Kyle you completely destroyed this clown.
Four indictments, two plea deals, multiple cooperating witnesses. Carter Page admitted to being an agent for the Kremlin.
Kyle just can't accept the facts are not on his side.
If Kyle was wrong he wouldn't have so many things to cite and strengthen his point.
Kyler Evans ARE YOU ACTUALLY EVEN A RATIONAL PERSON? DID YOU READ WHAT YOU SAID? SLOWLY?
So why doesn't he site the fact that Carter Page admitted to being an agent for the Kremlin? Why does he not mention the four indictments? The multiple cooperating witnesses trading up? The two plea deals already? He can't admit he is wrong.
Keety You both sound like MSNBC vs Fox point talkers! Kyle admitted! Yes he admitted that there was indictments and everything! Are y’all still brainwashed by the mainstream media or something? Ugh
reminder that the most popular comments on david pakman videos are usually *"and kyle says this is a nothing burger"*
Alec Jacques what are you doing watching David Pakman? That's pretty weird, dude.
TYT Are Ballbag As Fuck And Race Baiting Dildos just because we have a disagreement doesn’t mean David is bad
i like watching david and his eunuch feel godly over their sound quality as compared to that of their callers
David is basically a TLDR Rachel Maddow, except David is more feminine
TYT Are BallBag As Fuck And Race Baiting Dildos Lmao wow nice profile name, you seem reasonable. Why should we take your opinion seriously?
Kind of hard to call it a debate when they agree with 95% of the issues
very good debate
I like how you guys can disagree and still stay friends and look at the bigger picture. That said Kyle made a much stronger argument.
This was a great debate but I disagree with Kyle on many points.
1. The US should always make clear it intends to defend its allies. You vould argue whether or not it should ally with certain countries, but the US not defending an ally could cause a horrible precedent that could cause a larger global impact that could have much larger consequences then defending that ally.
2. Even if Trump came to only good policy positions up until now because of a collusion with Russia, we should still be very concerned. What effects on policy could collusion have in the future?
3. Just because we have evidence of him colluding with other countries does not mean we should not investigate his ties with Russia. People deserve to know.
4. If it was true that Trump did collude with Russia and it was proven, it would be a major political blow to the Republicans. The de facto head of the Repulican party colluding with a Non US ally? That would set the Republicans back for years. I also believe the accusations and the blowback would go deeper than Trump. How could Pence, Priebus, perhaps even Mconnel and Ryan not have known about or been part of the collusion?
I would have to say I agree with Kyle. I believe there is very little evidence currently present that points to Trump colluding with Putin.
However, I agree with Cenk more on the principles of it being investigated.
Should Russia do the same? How should have Russia reacted to the US bombing Syria in your opinion? Or should we apply a double standard when it comes to others?
Stewiehleba Russia should have established a no-fly zone, no questions asked. No one has any business being there except for Assad and the people that his government grants access.
the US does not "defend allies"
the US practices imperialism and empowers imperialist agendas.
destroying everything good in the middle-east did not "help" anyone.
Emilio Fedele 4. It would not hurt the Republican Party in current day America. People would label it as fake news and call it a witch hunt. Etc etc.
Kyle for the WIN!
I am very torn here because
a) I like Cenk. He has done so much for bringing progressive news to the fore.
b) I tend to think Russia-gaters are smooth-brained,
Cenk and Kyle both had legitimate points IMO. Good on Cenk and Kyle for having this convo cause i was really wondering how they would kinda address their clashing viewpoints
It makes me sad to think I use to like Cenk. That was pretty pathetic to see him get destory by Kyle. Wow I can't believe Cenk used a 4-D chess argument to dismiss Trump's bombings on the Syrian government
Right? It's baffeling that he resorts to Trumpist talking points just to fit his narrative.
Revisiting this. Thank you for this informative and insightful discussion.
Exactly!
$200,000 is about 100 nights at Trump Hotels. Not much of a bribe if you ask me. Any Saudi would have between 10-20 people in the entourage. $200,000 is really chump change for that hotel business. If they spent $200 million, that would be a different story.
Great debate...
Glad you both made this video.
Did Cenk make you wait 24 hours before posting here after releasing it on TYT Politics?
This is why I went from being a regular viewer of TYT during the primary election to Secular Talk today.... I mean it wasn’t that straight forward I went to The humanist report then H.A Goodman to Jimmy Dore to Jordan Chariton to Kyle and Secular Talk. In a span of a few months.
HA Goodman , like Sane Progressive, turned into pro Trump right wing propaganda lately. Jimmy Dore walks a fine line and clearly a lot of his viewers are right wingers, try checking the comment sections
Alexander Platypus I totally agree. The only reason why I watched Goodman was because of he videos over the “coming” indictments after that I never watch him again. Same goes to Jimmy Dore, I watched him during that same month after that I moved to Secular Talk fully.
Most of Jimmy viewers are progressive, not right wingers.... Stop the ignorant lies. Jimmy himself doesn't "walk a fine line".
Nah dude. Most of his subs are very pro Trump. All of his videos criticizing Trump largely lean towards downvotes which is why he rarely ever criticizes Trump nowadays without redirecting and saying Dems are the real problem.
Dems are the real problem. You can hate Repubs and still see that. The democrats are very sneaky and good at pretending to be better, which is why they're a better threat. He hates Trump, but going on about Russia , like TYT does, isn't a priority to him or me. As for his commenters, they're mostly progressive. You saw comments you disagree with and ran with false assumptions. Sorry, "dude". I'm a girl, by the way. I guess the name "Rosanna" is gender neutral?
Really interesting debate, felt like 25 minutes instead of 50. I'd love to see you guys debate more stuff!
Kyle THRASHED the big brown buffalo
Cenk to Kyle, "We're both deeply progressive.....". Not true! Cenk is centrist at best.
I was frustrated because Cenk usually performs really well with a lot of accurate well sourced studies and work but here i felt like he got fixed on the same info but didn't quite address the counter arguments Kyle placed forward; he was very fixed on going on the collusion and repeated that he felt the laundering needed to be investigated and Kyle repeatedly said he WAS FOR THAT but Cenk kind of...lost something or Kyle didn't communicate it well enough, I'm not exactly sure but I feel like Cenk wasn't picking something up.
Please debate ben shapiro. Its your duty as a progressive
Anybody here after the spat between TYT, Kyle, Jimmy Dore, etc?
I really enjoyed watching this debate. I love the commentary from both Kyle and Cenk, but I have to say I tend to agree more with Kyle here.
If Trump can be brought up on money laundering charges more easily with regards to Turkey, Israel, and Saudi Arabia than with Russia, what's the end-game of attempting to nail him with Russia? It's purely political at that point; the crimes line up better with the narrative from the establishment. This doesn't mean that Trump couldn't or shouldn't be prosecuted for crimes related to Russia, but rather that focusing on Russia to the extent that the establishment and the media do means there's ulterior motives that suit their purposes.
Russia already has become the Democrats' Benghazi; but can they bring it home now and how would they define a win? I suspect a win as currently defined would only be a successful impeachment and possible treason charges, though that goal post will almost certainly move when they aren't able to accomplish the latter, and possibly even the former. So yes, this is a boondoggle that very well could end up hurting the Democrats' chances in the midterms since they've created this monster and are wearing it around their necks so proudly.
Why pursue this Russian collusion narrative so vigorously? Because it helps explain HRC's loss in 2016 from the perspective of establishment Democrats. I was the lone voice among my friends who raised the possibility of a Trump victory in 2016 a week before the election; we live a stone's throw from DC and I wasn't convinced HRC would win. But a lot of my friends read the WaPo, NYT, and are in the inner circle of DC; they all had blinders on. I spoke with tons of people immediately on the outskirts of DC who were going to vote Trump, some of whom specifically because he wasn't HRC. These people, many of my friends included, can't accept that their candidate was deeply, deeply flawed (that's being as nice as I can). They would rather live with an excuse as to why their candidate lost rather than commit to any deep analysis for the myriad of reasons they supported a horrible candidate who lost to an even worse one; Russia gives them an out. It's their last and best hope that they weren't wrong for supporting HRC and it gives them an out. When this is taken away from them, they have no comfort blanket left and they might have to see reality for what it is.
The problem is, however, that Russia has been blown way out of proportion and the Democratic candidates are going to suffer from the likely fate of Mueller's investigation. I'm not saying the Democrats are going to lose the midterms - almost everything aligns with them winning from history, Trump, and the vehement disregard for the average American citizens by the current Republican Congress. But this Russia investigation isn't going to be a win for the Democrats - it almost certainly will be ended without enough evidence to impeach, let alone prosecute. So when this investigation does end this way, the results will certainly tamper Democratic turnout in the fall. This is just another strategic blunder on the part of Democrats and it too will come back to bite them.
Anyways, I really appreciated the debate here and I look forward to seeing similar ones again. Love TYT, Secular Talk, Humanist Report, the Rational National, Jimmy Dore Show, Redacted Tonight, etc. Hope we can see some more debates between pundits on these shows.
You can tell all Cenk is concerned about is getting rid of Trump....nothing else.
Whats with that wierd Estonia example ? Estonia is part of the EU and the Euro-zone . While that also means its unlikely Russia would dare do anything there IF for some reason it did there actually would be all-out war. Estonia for better or worse is part and has been part of core Europe ( like the other Baltic States ) for 15 to 20 years now.
The Estonia example is because it's a border state of Russia, part of Nato and the border between Russia and them has never been officially agreed upon and set in stone. I don't know that much about it but basically the idea is Russia could come in to claim what's "theirs" is the worry and why they're talking about it.
The Baltic States have never been "theirs" . You can argue about Ukraine and some other parts but the Baltic States had been more or less illegally occupied by the Soviet Union and had hundreds of thousands of people deported ( to Siberia where many died ) and replaced by Russian settlers. There's very good reason why those states have alot of animosity towards Russia and don't trust them. When the SU was starting the collapse the Baltics went first .
The Baltic States are firmly entreched within the Western European Alliance. They're not ever going to come back to Russia . They never wanted to be part of the SU in the first place and i would think Russia knows that the Baltics are off limits.
s3rp Would that also mean we could ask the European settlers in the North American continent to return the land to the natives and return to homeland? It is better if the Europeans in the US fight for the protection of Europe as citizens of European nation. Don't do it in the name of US.
There's is 1 ! nation in the entire history of NATO that ever invoked Article 5 and thats the US . So yes the US would have to return the favor if needed.
One of the easiest ways to spot a weak argument is when the person says "well, everyone knows _____."
"Believe me!"
Kyle FTW.
You didn't hear about the incident with the Russian and US jet because they've been doing this exact kind of thing quite often for decades and decades, and there's absolutely nothing unusual about it.
Good job, Kyle. Though there was a few points you could have made, as far as calling into question the “evidence” that Cenk thinks exists.. ✌🏼
And, one of them was right. Not surprising. (Not to throw shade at Cenk, he's cool, but Kyle is much better.)
great debate
I imagine that this is what an average debate between a conservative and a liberal in Denmark looks like. Maybe this’ll be an average debate in the USA by the year 3000
Cenk was dismissive, condescending and more oopinion-based in his arguments.
Loved it, need more of this.
Kyle, you are using a Blue Yeti. While it isn't the best mic in the world it certainly should sound better than it did in this video. You need to fix the settings on it. I think you have it set up to capture the audio of the whole room, which is why your voice sounds bouncy. There is a setting to have the mic record in one direction, that should fix the problem.
It could also be a problem with the acoustics of the room. If that is the case, then you can fix it by putting decorations on the wall. You could also just buy some cheap foam to put on the wall. That would even out the sound.
mattbenz99 Reviews You might want to tweet this to him as well
thanks kyle, you're doing a good job
Is Cenk drunk?
13:38 Yes, Russia invading Estonia would most likely cause WW3. Just as Germany invading Poland caused WW2. NATO has every right to protect itself. Russia has military on NATO borders too.
Kyle sounds like the Americans that were opposed to the USA joining the allies in WW2. NATO exists for a reason.
1 year later, and Kyle turned out to be correct
4 years later, Kyle's position isn't vindicated... #russiaukrainewar #90days
Kyle was right on the substance but he lost this debate at the beginning when he said he doesn’t care about football. Unacceptable
Cenk should stop debating people. He's weak.
Cenk is doing double-think, "I agree with everything you say Kyle... but Russia!"
Love TYT, but this is just sad.
Great debate overall. While I agree with Cenk a bit more, that's not to say Kyle didn't have any great points and counterarguments. While I disagree with a few things on Cenk's part and some on Kyle's part, I think both brought really great points to the forefront that can be agreeable on both sides of this issue. It's very important for us as progressives to have a discussion breaking down each aspect, detail, and cause and effect upon this entire investigation. While I lean more towards thinking that Russia has controlled our election, there's also a lot of points the other side makes that I would definitely agree with, and I think it's very important to hear each other's opinion on this with the facts and evidence they each provide. Props to both of you guys
Does Cenk always sound like he's been drinking when he talks?
Kyle killed it! Right on the money
Never been a fan of Cenk, but he came off as completely reasonable in this. The people whining about WWIII are hysterical and they rely on that appeal to emotion in order to shut down any conversation about Russia interference and collusion. Then you have another side that all they ever see is Russian collusion and they, too, are hysterical. It would be nice if we could have productive conversations like this.
“Don't Cling to a Mistake Just Because You Spent a lot of Time Making it.”
- Lessons learned from listening to Cenk Uygur debate #RussiaGate
Well said!
That shit eating grin Kyle had before they started was great haha
world war one started between 2 relatively unimportant European countries over one random archduke People think world war is this hard thing to start every single war is a possible catalyst even the small unimportant ones.
Laughingpug Boi, Germany, even then was a major power in Europe
The world today is very similar to the world before WWI. Massive ungainly alliances, countries wanting to go at each other for no good reason, and a handful of violent agitators trying to spark the whole thing off.
The population cleansing of this century will make last century's look paltry in comparison.
Laughingpug
Diplomacy in that era was much different. Part of the issue with WW1 was that many of the countries that became involved had secret alliances, informal alliances, etc. In modern times, defensive pacts like NATO are used as a deterrent. Not honoring the pact would be more catastrophic for global stability because if the world sees the US not intervene when a NATO country is attacked, they will no longer fear attacking allies of the US.
Basically, world war 1 happened because no one was sure who else would get involved if they attacked any given country. NATO is the exact opposite, where there is a list of countries that are guaranteed to retaliate.
yeah but Germany has very little to do with the start of the first world war no matter how much people try to blame them.
secret alliances informal alliances not really everyone knew who was allied with who. the fact countries let the unimportant allies push you into war is exactly how WWI snowballed into a world war in the first place.
The only difference between then and now according to you is we know who is on what side when the war starts. the chain reaction back then was odd because very few countries were allied to Hungary and Serbia directly but once ones allies joined you had to pile on to back them up and so on and so on.
Yes we formalized the sides now but we sure as fuck didn't break the problem of the interconnected web that ushered in world wars. In fact if anything the snowball will be faster this time because countries don't have the thing slowing them down in WWI which was allies on both sides.
Good job, Kyle. You clearly won this debate.
How is Cenk Kyle's boss?
He isn't.
Cenk's network hosts Kyle's show. He is Kyle's boss, now Kyle can leave, but he's happily a TYT affiliate channel.
Psyentist Kyle hosts his own show. Cenk and TYT has no control over him and therefore cannot be called his "boss". Kyle chose to be a TYT network affiliate because it benefits his show.
Semantics. His show runs on TYT, Cenk owns TYT. Don't like it? Don't watch it, but everytime you watch Kyle, you put money in Cenk's pocket from ad revenues and sponsored content deals. You can go ahead and argue that Kyle started on his own, but he's with them and Cenk is the CEO, whether he puts his hands on the content might change tomorrow but that's none of our business.
I'd like to see this same debate with Cenk and Jimmy Dore.
Cenk and Kyle, great discussion by two people (among other prominent progressives like David Pakman) I highly respect in terms of knowledge, intelligence, open-mindedness, temperament and more.
However, as despite my regard for Kyle, I think he is missing a bit of the point (as is Sam Seder, Jimmy Dore and their respective comrades--and to be sure, I really like and respect Ron Placone).
However, in my opinion, David Pakman has been one of the very few having the best and balanced view, recognizing essentially that we need to be able to 'walk AND chew gum' simultaneously. In other words, we need to both:
1) recognize that Russian interference with elections is real and problematic, as David Pakman has rationally talked about and cited sources for months, as well as recently citing an interview with an intelligence official who stated that the Russian government had officially sanctioned organized internet propaganda aimed at the American electorate, while...
2) recognizing and expressing clearly that Russian propaganda WAS NOT the definitive and singular reason why Dems lost the election to the loons, as some liberals and progressives may feel was the case.
May I point something very basic and definitive that I have essentially not heard many other than perhaps David Pakman mention: internet propaganda is not fictional, not imaginary, not insignificant, as many futurists, technologists, computer and IT/AI experts have, more or less, pointed to and predicted for many years.
They have warned over the past few decades, as internet technology progresses, that indirectly in terms of future conflict, wars or political crises will be increasingly fought and manipulated in the virtual realm as well as on the physical battlefield.
As Pakman has pointed out and cited sources in recent posts (see David Pakman's recent posts over the past few weeks), Russia (and others no doubt) have been engaged in structured political manipulation for decades. With the advent of a looney-toon like Trump in office along with his corrupt shock troops, and in combination with a large swath of this electorate-- desperate, confused, under-educated, under-informed, guided by fear/hatred/prejudice/xenophobia/gullibility/superficiality-- it has made that manipulation ever easier.
So, to overly weight one side or another by-passes a more thoughtful, nuanced, comprehensive understanding and analysis of the whole picture. Clearly, some outlets may be sounding too loudly-- but not incorrectly-- at one end of the spectrum and not balancing their coverage with policy issues, and trumpeting Russia's very worrisome attempts at influencing the mindset of the electorate, while the other end of spectrum (i.e., Jimmy Dore, et al) seem to want to dismiss it all, essentially relegating the issue to the much overused 'nothingburger',.... when 'nothing' couldn't be further from the truth.
(We welcome opposing opinions :)
Again,... we need to be able to 'walk AND chew gum' on this issue.
I agree with you. But in the real world, vast majority of people are not anywhere near as nuanced and sophisticated as you are. So they can only process a very basic version of "RUSSIA IS ATTACKING" or "ITS MADE UP BY HILLARY" with nothing in between
If Russians tried to influence US elections so what? It is the height of hypocrisy to criticise another governments wrong actions when the US has overthrown and murdered many foreign leaders.
I see no unusual circumstances with Russia supposedly meddling in another countries affairs. All countries spy on each other and most try to influence elections.
How did this whole Russia scandal start? Wikileaks leaks Hilary Clinton's emails. Democrats claim that Russia was the source of the leaks with no evidence in an attempt to distract from the content of the emails. Our government's agencies also claim that Russia was the source with no evidence. Wikileaks says it wasn't Russia, but won't reveal the source. So we can't say for certain where they came from. Any court would throw this case out in a second. But it keeps going...
As time passes, we have people desperately trying to find the next big Russia story because the propaganda from the Democrats has set in. We are throwing an INCREDIBLE amount of resources at this claim, and look at how little we have come up with after more than a year of this. People are starting with a conclusion and trying to lead the evidence toward it. It makes sense why the Democrats would push this even if they believed it to be bullshit. Attempting to manufacture a narrative is a good way to make people anti-Trump without actually discussing policies that would go against their donors.
Now, people are even referring to Hilary Clinton's leaked emails at "hacking the election". wtf? It's like some kind of delusional attempt at a self-fulfilling prophecy or something.
Are u pakman?
I HAVE BEEN WAITING MY ENTIRE LIFE FOR THIS
I really enjoyed watching Cenk make shit up towards the end. Very entertaining.
Jeremy Chase
What did he make up?
It just seems like every time Kyle gets into specifics, cenk comes back with this simplistic position.
A year later, and its proven that Kyle was right
And now, 4 years after?
this aged well
Watching it two years later. Cenk is embracing himself badly
Embracing? As in kissing himself?
This debate gives me great pleasure to know I unsubscribed from TYT over a year ago. Cenk is a joke.
Kyle "I wouldn't defend part of Nato because I fear russia's reaction."
Damn. That's like saying "You know, I would protect people in the witness protection program, but I fear the mob's reaction. It could escalate."
Does the mob have nuclear weapons and a HUGE army? No... stop using false equivalence.
NATO was never supposed to move east of Germany. This was a pact we made with the Russians as part of the dissolution of the USSR. We broke our word, as we always do.
How would you be acting if the Ruskies had tanks, troops, helicopters, nuclear-capable missiles, and bombers all over the Mexican border? That's the equivalent of what we've done to them.
I think they've been very patient with us.
I don't agree with this metaphor but I 100% support defending our allies and overall the sovereignty of nations from forced authoritarian or outer rule. Estonia should have the right to remain independent as it was independent for many centuries of human history. Estonia joined NATO out of their own will to remain independent and free from tyranny and I would be happy to help them fight. As we learned from Hitler and countless other dictators appeasement doesn't usually work. Even with nuclear threat looming Russia would die in a nuclear war as well and if we cede one country what prevents them from using the same tactic again.
State of Opportunity The US metaphor doesn't work because we don't want to invade and imperialize Mexico where as Russia wants to invade and imperialize Estonia. Estonia joined NATO from their own will and what gives Russia the right to control what Estonia does?
+noriq
"we don't want to invade and imperialize Mexico"
dafuq are you talking about?!
usa has invaded and imperialized pretty much all of america.
who do you t hink installed all those brutal dictators? yeah, usa did.
remember batista in cuba? he was EVEN WORSE than fidel(notice i said "even worse", meaning i'm not defending fidel in any way shape or form). the somozas of nicaragua? el porfirato in mexico? rene barrientos of bolivia?
augusto pinochet of chile?
alberto fujimori of peru?
yeah, that's just a very very short list and it's limited only to american dictators, usa has been supporting oppressive regimes in all continents(except maybe oceania). you are no better than russia, you are just richer than russia.
Kyle wins‼️👍👍👍👍👍
The water buffalo lost.
Are you people Kyle Kulinski fans or do you just find this through UA-cam algorithms?
Troy Bakeman uh I’m subscribed to Secular Talk, so yes I like Kyle. Cenk has time and time again proven to be a hot headed ignorant fool on a lot of issues.
VERY GOOD conversation!!!! Nice to hear all of this talked out in a sane, rational manner....
This is a debate? These too line up almost 90%. Tariq Nasheed and Jarod Taylor talked tonight. Kyle, you and Cenk need to go against diametrically opposed ideas. This is echo chamber garbage we've seen for years.
Pete Ard you don't always need to show Two extremes. It gives a false sense of what is reasonable and there is enough facts in this case that there is only so much room for opinion and interpretation.
It's also better for changing viewer opinions, as the viewer is less likely to require a dramatic change in worldview, but a slight shift in opinion if one side is more persuasive
Thomas Cocks Agreed, but I think with the large political divide the lefts ideas are not going to translate to a different audience without going outside their comfort zone and vice versa for the right. The audience of these fine gentlemen are pretty much the same. So this is figuratively preaching to the chior. If that makes sense?
How would it be preaching if there are differences? Way I think of preaching its always 100% agree
Nick Avick Because it's such a small difference. Listen to how many times they say I agree. We're not building bridges, by having tiny discussions on minor details with people we agree with on 90% of the issues.
Pete Ard ok by that metaphor they arent building a bridge they are "maintaining" a bridge that is weathered down a little. By having the discussion the two mini factions can build solidarity even with differences. The worst possible out come is that the two sides lack understanding of each other and thus split because of it.
You dont need to like the stance someone has to work together but you do need to understand that stance in order to work together
Kyle should do more debates
I still agree with Kyle, but the Estonia thing is something I wasn't aware of. And I feel like Cenk's right about THAT, like if you give your word you'll have a country's back and put it in writing, you gotta live up to that. (Whether it was wise to make that promise to begin with is another question.)
Bottom line the democrats lost because they didn't have a compelling message. With that being said, I'm gonna have to side with Kyle, who gives a fuck about Russia gate. Lets focus on the issues so we can win elections and prevent another repeat of 2016.