How Much Faster Is The New Bosch Motor Update? | 2021 Software Update
Вставка
- Опубліковано 28 чер 2020
- The ONLY accurate way to compare if the new Bosch 85Nm motor update is faster to its 75Nm equivalent is to ride the same bike with all the same components on the same hill in the same weather conditions with the same rider. Which we have done in this video.
Will you be getting this update? Let us know 👇
Subscribe to EMBN: embn.me/subscribenow
Pick up official EMBN merch: embn.me/wJ
Follow us on Instagram or Facebook! @emountainbikenetwork
Sign up to the EMBN newsletter: embn.me/newsletter
Please submit your content to our uploader: upload.embn.com/ we love to check out what you have been up to and may feature it on the show!
Watch more on EMBN...
📹 7 Motors Head To Head - embn.me/MotorChallenge
📹 2021 Bosch Software Update - embn.me/BoschUpdate2021
If you'd like to contribute captions and video info in your language, here's the link 👍 embn.me/wI
🎵 Music - licensed by Epidemic Sound
Book of Revelations (Instrumental Version) - Psuche
City of Sin (Instrumental Version) - Nbhd Nick
Crate Digging - Tigerblood Jewel
Forget Your Name (Instrumental Version) - spring gang
Gaijah - Valante
Let Em Know (Instrumental Version) - Nbhd Nick
Momentum - Of Water
Sleep It Off - Shoulder B
#EMBN #EMTB #MountainBiking #eBiking #MountainBike #MTB #BikeLife #Cycling #Ebike
The Electric Mountain Bike Network (EMBN) is the world’s leading electric mountain bike (eMTB) channel and community.
Dedicated to igniting your passion for eMTBs, EMBN delivers weekly original content to inspire you to take your riding further, faster - and with more fun.
Whether you live to conquer the techiest terrain - both up and down; to access and explore the beautiful backcountry; or simply to pack as much fun as you can into the precious riding time you have, EMBN is dedicated to covering eMTB from every angle.
From inspiring you to go electric - helping you understand what you need, where and how to ride to get the best from your eMTB experience, and more - through showcasing and exploring the latest, most innovative tech, empowering and entertaining features, to skills videos that help you progress and can tackle ever-more adventurous terrain, and much, much more.
Every week we bring you informative and entertaining videos on…
- The know-how…
- The skills…
- The tech…
- The inspiration…
...to go faster and explore more!
EMBN is mountain biking… fully charged: helping you go faster, further, and with more adventures than ever before.
Join the EMBN community:
Facebook:
Instagram: embn.me/instagram
Twitter: embn.me/embntwitter
Thanks to our sponsors:
Specialized: embn.me/specialized
Haibike: embn.me/haibike
Canyon: embn.me/canyon
Ergon: embn.me/ergon
Maxxis: embn.me/maxxis
Park Tool: embn.me/parktool
Garmin: embn.me/garmin
Muc-Off - embn.me/MucOff
Mavic Wheels: gmbn.eu/Mavic - Спорт
Will you be getting this update? Let us know 👇
No I can't afford it ☹️
As soon as the update becomes available im getting it. Get updates like this for my Tesla 😁
I will definitely get it. I'm a heavy bloke so i need every little extra power i can get :)
Yes my bike 2 weeks old I expect it's free update
good work, they should do a test with battery consumption with and without update. regards
I don’t have a e-bike, I’m a fatbike rider but I have to say I really enjoy the content. Well presented informative and fun to watch!! Great stuff!!! 👍👍👍🤘🤘🤘
We appreciate your enthusiasm and effort.
got the update, been out on ten plus rides ,the benefit is felt mostly on tour mode and eco, around cwmcarn, wentwood etc .definately a must to get ,its a subtle difference and you notice it when you dont have to change down the gears so much ,the bike pulls you out of trouble in the lower gears without any extra battery loss.
I have a new Cannondale moterra one. I have updated to 1.03 firmware. It does use a bit more battery and yes it does pull harder. I use a speedbox 3 for when I’m on our own land and it still works perfect. So for all these people saying it does this and that please try for yourself and then comment with your experiences. Ps best bike I have had since I was a child and should of bought one sooner. Cheers chaps 👍
I think your comparison would have been more accurate if your were to measure your input wattage. By maintaining a constant rider input wattage, a reduction of time would more accurately been assigned to the motor software update. In a very general sense, you were able to show some differences, but there were to many variables in your physical effort as I doubt after several runs up the hill you were able to maintain a consistent effort... Still love your episode! Keep up the great work!
He needed to be in exactly the same gear each run and change gears at the same spot for it to be somewhat accurate
Wouldn't matter depending on what chain and drivetrain is on a certain bike Shimano being faster than sram for example so would vary to different manufacturers, now that we know Sram red and axs is 15watts slower than a shimano chain alone from the Dutch testing centre to allowed the new data to be made public
Can confirm in 2024 smart system it's a massive improvement to what once was!
Thanks so much for this video review!
Great real-world demo. Less impact in Boost mood? Perhaps, but let's not forget that was your 4th run up the hill as well so the real engine (you) could've been down on power a bit....
I have a Riese muller 85 NM but is a snail in the mountains and on the flat. It is an E-Speed 45 km. He can't do much in the Hills. An old granny on a sparta cycles past me. Been back to the dealer three times. I regret it. Love from Holland and thanks.
The MTB mode is the secret sauce in this update. When you hit some rocks, the motor temporarily goes to turbo (or beyond) to assist you through rocky terrain. I actually look forward to technical sections with this feature!
The biggest change of the update is the MTB mode which you didn't test and it's amazing how you and 20 seconds faster in ECO even though it is unchanged at 60% and 40 NM so that just proves you peddled harder the second run😂
Neil Farnish because he got a free flight food and hotel from Bosch
This channel is a joke. They can't design proper comparisons, and they always shill for the big manufacturers, chasing ad money. Really disappointing, and worth an unsub.
Tha's actually hilarious! He tested ECO which didn't even change with the update and claimed it was faster, if his conditions are exactly the same as he's claimed that means the only difference was his pedalling hahahaha
Stopped watching this because of him
Hi Steve. - fantastic video as always. How do I tell if my bike has had the update? How do I find the version on the Puritan display of my Cube Reaction 625? Cheers Mark
Very informative video!
I am just wondering if that rattling noise every tester has been complaining for, still exists. However, this is a powerful motor, we just have to wait Shimano’s motor upgrade!
Nice job, waiting for more info about new motors!!!!
Ioannis Paraskevopoulos the real test will be reliability as they push the power outputs as Specialised have found out. More power means a lot of people do less gear changes and stress the drive mechanisms.
If I had a gen4 yes, sadly stuck with gen3 so all a bit irrelevant ☹️. As the numbers go Steve, Eco improved by 18% and Turbo by 10% - your varying speeds of starting and stopping your stopwatch was noticeable so with seconds being more important in the Turbo times that percentage could easily improve but as a rough guide still impressive. Now all you have to do is go for a 50 mile ride in the EMTB mode before and after the upgrade to see the impact on battery consumption - so get onto the guys at Bosch for a return visit (they will love you for it but it’s free PR for them - priceless!!)😎
Will this do anything to my motor when I have my speed chip installed? I heard story's that Bosch patched it and quit working
What a great test, it makes sense, Bosch software is ahead....I have Shimano and happy being on an ebike.
All good stuff for ebikes
Hi Steve, any idea what impact upgrade has on battery drain? You normally associate that no one mentions anything about it that it is not good news! Is the update reversible ie. Battery drain is an issue, resort back to 75NM?
do we have a more definite date for the update rather than Summer ?
I just bought a trek powerfly 5 and I ask dealer if bike had new update firmware and they said it did. How can I make sure its been done?
Interesting comparison Steve. 👍
I'd suggest a timing error in your ECO mode run. As you wouldn't be extracting full power in ECO, 20 secs difference is illogical.
Thanks Spock..! LOL
Hi any idea if there will be an update for road bike motors. Thanks.
Can anyone tell me how you know what Gen motor you have? Keep seeing people mention different generations... But haven't got a clue what my Bosch is? It's a performance line... Not cx.
Does the update come only for the Performance CX or for the Performance Cruise too?
This is interesting to see. Whilst I appreciate the effort, I must observe that the watch was observed some 2 or 3 seconds after stopping on first turbo run. By contrast, watch seemed to be stopped in stopwatch mode just CO in to end of second run following firmware update.
I shall try to get when available~`
Really good comparison! but in term of battery, it consumes the same as before, less or more? Thanks for your great videos ;)
The Bosch motor in a buddies 2019 Haibike has an issue where if the motor is turned off or the battery runs all the way down it (the motor) remains mechanically connected to the crank/petals causing a very noticeable drag when peddling. Does this new setup fix this defect? Asking because my Yamaha powered Haibike doesn't do this and I was thinking about buying a new Haibike with a Bosch system. If it hasn't been fixed then I'll just keep my current bike.
First of all. Bosch CX - one of first update after 2016 year made weaker engine. I noticed it after update also the range was improvement due to that. Now probably Bosch add some amps on controller by software to makes it stronger again ^^
I’m running 95% of the time on eco mode and only use tour mode when it’s a long steep climb. So this update sounds interesting for my Focus Jam2. I usually have to climb around 1000m (a lot of up and down) to get to the flow trails where I live.
AngryMegaMind
What’s the point of an ebike if you stay in eco or are you doing 100 miles
Can i ride les miles with the update when it gives more power to the moter??
Hi does the bosch ECO run 85 nm if so why would it be called ECO unless you have altered it from an app shimano runs 40 nm in ECO
I assuming the motor is set to UK standards & Limits? In USA we are allowed to have a high top end. Would this make a difference? Great Video and info- Cheers!
Is any range difference ? Probably drains 10-15% faster battery 🔋?
Steve - What is the impact of the extra power on the battery consumption?
Jay Houghton most of the 2021 bikes with the upgrade are now fitted with 625W batteries rather than say 500W.
@@scottweston8477 that's racist
@@jerryx2000 ???
@@jerryx2000 ???
Battery will run out even faster
So when will the Motor and its controller be made aware of the gearset and shift? The day Bosch acquire SRAM?
Which motor do you prefer now? The spez or the bosch?
How much more battery life does the update use up?
Reliability will be king with this arms race in power output. Personally I think Bosch have done their R&D and are very confident with their retro upgrade.
Is it only for the 2020 series?
HELP I live near York uk & I would love know wear can I get some advice on a bike rack. To hold 2 ebikes. I see on UA-cam channels that the Hitch....!! & Thule easy fold XT 2 bike rack would be perfect. Any good bike shops etc can help.
Every time I see people fly up hills on EMTBs I instantly want one :) some serious thinking to be done.....
Well don't test one out because it WILL seal the deal and your wife will be wondering where 5 to 8k went in the bank out account.
Happened to me....
Been there, done that - bought the bike! :-)
Love your content. Can we please get some riding skills videos. I'm struggling with adjusting to the extra 24 lbs my ebike weighs
Will be great if it gives more boost to the eco mode, I think it's to weak at the moment, so I'm using trail mode most of the times, when it's not too steep. But when the new eco mode will become a bit more powerful, I will choose this one in the future and it will increase my range a bit :)
I can still do 34 miles in both 75/85 n/m but when had the 75 n/m I had 1 bar left saying 4 miles left in turbo but with the upgrade no bar left and saying 0 miles on turbo and just 1 mile left in eco.
Certainly will have to be more conservative on a longer run which is not what it's all about.
I want to update , how do I go about this in the states?
Finally done the proper way. Thumbs up! I'm just wondering how much effect this software update will put on the battery range.
I think the video on the update said no impact on range despite more torque
What engine is better between shimano and bosh
Hola puedo actualizar mi bosh active line plus de 50nm a 85nm?
Is the update from version 1.02 to 1.03
get the upgrade its awesome
Quite frankly Steve that is amazing... does it eat up battery life faster...? Cheers Hammerhead.
How do I get the update?
What's the current firmware identification number
I would love to see a review of this motor on a trike recumbent tadpole as a road rider.
Sorry Stevo, for my money I'll stick with my one-off Bafang 52v-1500w BBSHD 160NM - absolutely crazy unstoppable torque!
I'm with you mate, 52v silky smooth torque and power! These guys really need to come onboard🚴💨
I have BBSHD. Today I rode 30 miles, up some long, high hills. I averaged 12mph and used 6.5 amps on a 13.5 amp 52V
Strange that you didn't try the emtb mode as it is really the only big difference in the assistance of this update
What’s the cost of upgrade please
Definitely interesting how they managed to perform a 10nm torque increase via software update! As a mechanic of high perform race engines i find this interesting, the motor must already be 90nm to 100nm torque and restricted in the diagnostic for them to increase in the future? I think with every other motor being 90nm and bosch 85nm it's gonna definitely be a 90nm motor and could expect another 5nm increase in future but would say thats its maximum unless start chaing out the gearing
What about the EMTB mode.....
Yes all very good but how dose it effect battery consumption?
10 km: 30%
I’ve just ordered a bike online, will I be able to take it anywhere to get the update, or do you have to take it to the original seller?
Doesnt have to be original seller
It would be nice if Bosch could give us a download link for the firmware update. I think I'm able to patch the software on my own.
The pc software itself to use to update is bosch owned/made and needs a user login and dealer membership. It is very easy to actually brick your emtb, you can even brick specific components.
So I dont think that will ever happen.
the upgrade makes a big difference
The MOST important fact that you the presenter forgot is: ECO assist is 50% for the 85nm motor vs. 40% for the 75 nm motor.
That’s why the big difference in ECO results.
You’re welcome !!!!
More power=more money for Bosch and that's OK, but I wish they'd spent some more resources optimising the transition from full to zero support when getting close to 25 kmt. I suppose the next generation will have BT connectivity and an app that opens up for individual settings😁
Question: How is the new Motor (Line CX 2020) when I go above 25 km/h ? I read you dont feel the motor-resistance anymore, or at least not as much as on the old Bosch. Is that true? Cause I tried the old motor and I found it terrible and no fun above 25.
Nice videos by the way!
A. L. I have a Gen 4 Performance Line CX Motor on my Radon Bike. A little bit resistance you can feel, but it is around 75% less than on a Gen 3 motor. I ride around 1.000km till now, and it makes absolutly fun, also above 25km/h.
@@TausendTode Thank you
Few people commenting on the battery, I’m really curious how much more battery will be consumed... at a guess I’m saying 10-15 % less battery range, any more than that and I think I’d actually be put off by even getting the update as there’s some 40+ mile loops I’d like to do with my E but I probably wouldn’t be able to do with the update... Either that or I guess I could deficit by losing a couple of stone...
Baz Baron I’ve just got the updated motor with a 625W battery on a 2021 Whyte and I’m very impressed with the the set up for longer rides. Not pushed the battery yet but the set up on eco and tour combined with the measurement and response to pedal input is spot on. Still find the speed limiter a little irritating.
Nicely done! I think this is the most reliable comparison test I've seen in mtb-land. The only way to make it better would be more runs with each setup (legs permitting!). Maybe add a less skilled rider in all 4 scenarios.
Eco mode 22 second that’s gold medal 🥇
I reckon it’s gonna drain and degrade the battery much faster and considering the price of a new battery I don’t know if it makes sense long term
I take it this is only a software update and free to those who already have a 75nm CX motor ???? I’ve the 75nm cx 2020 cube stereo and curious
GTRMADMAN Gaming not free, my dealer wants £35
Cant believe you left the bike resting drive side down.
Emtb mode is like a completely different bike
Better to do a blind test as a placebo effect could be effecting you.
I checked with my dealer, the software update doesn’t affect eco mode, only turbo so strange results
Hopefully the engineers at Bosch knows :) But as someone mensioned, it's more logic of its peak torque increase (turbo, e-mtb).
There's is a factor here that no one seems to have mentioned. Not only is Steve a tad more fatigued on the 3rd and 4th runs, but so are the battery cells! Whereupon you get slightly more voltage sag, ie: the battery will have less volts on the 4th run from that of the 1st run =.less power. So to be fair, the gap from the updated motor to the pre- updated motor in the real test scenario is actually larger in favour of the updated motor, but as someone has mentioned, there will be a slight trade off in battery range - no question.
Voltage sag with NMC is minimal. And if I’m right as the motor is torque controlled even it sags very slightly the current drawn will be slightly more to give the same power. To be fair there are so many variables at stake it’s difficult to tie down differences. I think losses due to combined serial system efficiency would be one of the larger differences. Personally I think when comparing motor systems an eMTB dyno would give more insight.
Will be possible to update via Kiox and eConnect?
I wish that was the case as well, I'm living in an area without a main dealer
Kiox was advertise since the beginning as: “ready for system update” via eConnect app
Fun, but as far as I can see the main change is from 75 to 85 Nm as I understand peak torque in anything other than Turbo remains the same with the Gen 4 firmware upgrade.
TURBO: 75 to 85
eMTB: 75
TOUR: 50
ECO: 40
Regardless percentage support levels from Gen 3 CX to Gen 4 CX are markedly different, with or without the peak torque change on the Gen 4.
You the only person who ride an cx Gen 3. Me got only a Gen 2 CX and an Gen 4😉
I always thought ECO mode was kind of a limp home tool when you’ve hammered the battery on a good hill climbing session? It’s nice to know they have given it a bit more oomphh...I might even give it another try when I get the update 😀👍
Oh Please have one for my Giant bike soon, Mine is a Yamaha motor.
yea bosch will make a software update for your yamaha motor....
Valid question, Giant just released a motor firmware update via their RideControl One app (iPhone and Android), there is very limited info on it. The update can be done by the user (no need to bring to bike shop) however once you update there is no turning back...
Does more power and torque use more battery ? Diminishing range?
Of course it does!
100% battery life like will be reduced unless Bosch can make power out of thin air! The point of this video is to satisfy those that will always want more because they need to go faster faster faster .....The improved ride-ability is a good move 👍.
@@uwe_bike Unless Bosch have found a way to make the motor more efficient, we don't know if that's the case but common sense would suggest it would use more power, we could all be wrong of course!
@@antonoat it's the same physical motor, wiring harness etc, so no way to make it more efficient.. the firmware simply allows the motor to draw more power from the battery and use it as required. The "magic" is more about how/when this power is drawn and used dependent on the sensors, I.e rider inputs to pedalling, terrain etc. Ultimately more torque = more power delivered to the motor and shorter battery life between charges
Hi Steve How long did the update take ?
3 days
10 minutes it says in the vid.
Can be done in 5min. 10 really includes a cup of coffee 😂
Could it just be that on your second run you put more effort in with the eco mode and that you had a better idea of the line also your legs will have warmed up cause in my eye 10Nm isn't that much of a difference
Bosch really have it in the bag 👍🏻 you should be able to choose a Bosch motor when ordering any make of bike! 😎
Wonder if that bike has a throttle.
Shame they never did an update for the gen3 motor
Basically don’t care about us
I read the 85nm torque was only in turbo modes.
All the other modes are 75nm?!?!
Indeed. My earlier reply said:
Fun, but as far as I can see the main change is from 75 to 85 Nm as I understand peak torque in anything other than Turbo remains the same with the Gen 4 firmware upgrade.
TURBO: 75 to 85
eMTB: 75
TOUR: 50
ECO: 40
Regardless percentage support levels from Gen 3 CX to Gen 4 CX are markedly different, with or without the peak torque change on the Gen 4.
why don't they do it for Gen 3 too ?
For money
At last Bosch got closer to Brose S Mag 90Nm
You keep referring it to a new motor when it's just a computer update.
No, it's a new motor too. He actually says in the video that they'll be reviewing the new motor later.
I really don't understand why bosch bother with different power levels, you just run it in turbo all of the time. If I wanted ECO i'd just ride a regular bike.
More money, well done Bosch
As a gen 3 owner all these hype vids just feels like burn upon burn. :|
dont be silly, you cant get a speedbox for the latest bosch motors, i had to hurry to buy a gen 3 cuz it was said that gen 4 will be harder to hack.
@@deaczorz lies i got a gen 4 its ez
@@TheCallOfDutyFreak read up on it and yea looks like they have a solution but it requires some wierd way of starting and stoping the bike? like wait 10 seconds before shutting down the bike
@@deaczorz not really thats all bullshit use speed box 3 ive ridden it 1000km already nothing weird happend
@@deaczorz i own a cube reaction hybrid EX 625
Eco = 60%, Turbo = 340% support, means you should be up that hill 2.75 times faster in turbo @75Nm given same input. While your 122 vs 80 sec suggests you just pedaled more in Eco or less in Turbo, which one is it...? Makes the first comparison useless
85Nm update is turbo and emtb only according to Bosch specs. Makes the 2nd comparison useless, too. There goes my sub.
I really miss the cat.
What happened to testing emtb mode
I don't get the point, I'm probably missing something. It gives you more power, so it's like the new eco mode is equivalent to the old tour mode? More power equals more battery drain, so just use the Tour mode when needed and keep the less powerful eco mode for flat surfaces when you just need to compensate the weight of the bike?
whinging about the legs burning after 10 secs on every run , never seen anybody do that before
i got the bike in this video less than a month ago and my closest bosch registered technician is about 50 miles away. How very annoying!
@@chrislomas9886 great idea mate!
Ok here is a friendly advice, think about your testing methodology better next time. Gaining 20 seconds by going from 75-85 doesn't look right. Not saying that you are manipulating just saying that there has to be something else.
1. Without rider effort this test makes little sense. You could have at least worn an HR monitor (or added bosch trip record of the section showing rider and motor input separately) to justify that you put similar effort.
2. Why Eco mode ? If the information on Bosch's website is right Eco mode does not only cap the assist level it also caps the maximum torque to 40nm? Maybe the update removes that cap on eco mode and that is the reason for that huge 20 second margin.
Don't get me wrong , I like what you are doing but you can be more careful and better design your test next time. Good luck.