0:00 Inferior Fe 6:55 Inferior Se 12:44 Decider Issues (IPs and EJs) 17:00 Inferior Ni 30:20 More Inferior/Tertiary Ni 44:10 Inferior Te 52:49 Inferior Fi 58:36 Maharaja Grill 1:07:05 Ne Doms 1:10:12 Te vs Ti 1:18:42 Inferior Ne 1:28:55 Alan Watts 1:48:05 Ni + Ti Super Power
Hi! Every time I see you I can’t help but think of how much you look like Nate Berkus. Oddly enough, I have a feeling he may be an Istp too! Maybe. Cool stuff. And nice video. Looking forward to your next one
Loving hearing you two talk about typology and where the cognitive functions take you in the conversation. You two talk in a way thats deep and complex, and makes me actually listen and not Ne out of it. Weirdly gives me hope for humanity haha.
OH MAN! This is going to be lovely!! I love Otim man. And when I saw the title.. I was like: "ALAN WATTS REFERENCE - I AM WATCHING!", and upon coming into the video ( after having watched your awesome insightful interview with Joyce and Daniel ) I see Manny/Otim too. Gonna be a shit ton of fun to see the INFJ ISTP dynamic here. Funny how I only yesterday watched both of your interviews with Joyce and now will binge 2 hours of you two together. Do you think you will post more videos soon? I'll subscribe either way tho! Hope this comment was too much Fe-blast (LOL) but I appreciate you man!
Lol that’s so funny with the boxing and camera. When I see ISTPs being oblivious or not caring about Fe, sometimes, it’s extremely funny watching everyone else’s reactions of, “Uhhh.... ok.... ... .. .” and it’s just interesting feeling the jarring sensation of the ISTP slamming into the social framework. Anywho, I’m only like 11 min in, but I have to go, but I wanted to say a few things. First, that’s so interesting that Dave puts himself in others’ shoes physically first and the rest follows. I mean, it makes sense with the Se, but it’s so wildly different from how I would or probably could do it. I normally go into it through their processes, how they see things more in their mind, how they make connections. Also, I don’t know that I agree that Dave would necessarily understand Fe better that way. I think he maybe understands better how to guide someone similar through it, though. But I do agree that Dave’s Fe is ridiculously good for an ISTP, to the point where sometimes it’s like are you a well-developed INFJ or a well-developed ISTP? Of course, the things vs. people helps. Finally, INFJ, Se, I think, (oof, sorry, too many commas) is different for me. I think I normally Se and zone in on it or I hardly Se at all. Once, I lived with some roommates and one day I was walking past the living room that I walked by every day and was probably in sometimes, and I was like, “You guys changed the wall. That’s nice.” They were confused for a minute. Apparently, they had changed the wall, the furniture placement, and everything like a month ago so... not great on the Se uptake. I can, and sometimes love, Se-ing when the task/stimulation is very simple. Intense and simple. If there’s too much going on, I can’t process and react. It’s best when I don’t have to process at all and I can just feel/hear/see. And I like to feel safe when I Se, because it can be so awkward. I feel that way around ISTPs and their Fe. I don’t know if they feel they need it or want it, but their feeling functions sometimes feel very vulnerable. So, when they do surface, I always feel a natural need to protect it, to provide a safe environment, and value it. Anywho, have to go, but you two are adorable.
DAVE OF ALL PEOPLE (Can I tag Manny? Is that a thing on UA-cam?) SORRY SO LONG, DAVE!!! I try not to, but not very hard. Manny, what you said about earning love reminded me of this passage from Atlas Shrugged: “Yes, I said gold-digger. There are many forms of it, other than greed for money, other and worse. You’re a gold-digger of the spirit. You didn’t marry me for my cash-but you married me for my ability or courage or whatever value it was that you set as the price of your love!” (Jim) “Do you want... love... to be... causeless?” (Cherryl) “Love is its own cause! Love is above causes and reasons. Love is blind. But you wouldn’t be capable of it. You have the mean, scheming, calculating little soul of a shopkeeper who trades, but never gives! Love is a gift-a great, free, unconditional gift that transcends and forgives everything. What’s the generosity of loving a man for his virtues? What do you give him? Nothing. It’s no more than cold justice. No more than he’s earned.” (Jim) Her eyes wer dark with the dangerous intensity of glimpsing her goal. “You want it to be unearned,” she said, not in the tone of a question, but of a verdict. “Oh, you don’t understand!” “Yes, Jim, I do. That’s what you want-that’s what all of you really want-not money, not material benefits, not economic security, not any of the handouts you keep demanding.” She spoke in a flat monotone, as if reciting her thoughts to herself, intent upon giving the solid identity of words to the torturous shreds of chaos twisting in her mind. “All of you welfare preachers-it’s not unearned money that you’re after. You want handouts, but of a different kind. I’m a gold-digger of the spirit, you said, because I look for value. Then you, the welfare preachers... it’s the spirit that you want to loot. I never thought and nobody ever told us how it could be thought of and what it would mean-the unearned in spirit. But that is what you want. You want unearned love. You want unearned admiration. You want unearned greatness. You want to be a man like Hank Rearden without the necessity of being what he is. Without the necessity of being anything. Without... the necessity... of being.” In response to Rand: I don’t know much about love. I do think loving or hating a quality is different from loving or hating a person. Some attributes are bad and should not be loved while others are the opposite, I think. But people... people are a collection of those qualities and maybe something even separate from that? Definitely at least a container and sifter/chooser of those qualities. I don’t think love is blind. I think being blind is separate from the love itself. Besides, do you really love them if you can’t really see them? I also agree with Rand that love doesn’t equal unconditional forgiveness (here, I mean something closer to acceptance of the wrongdoing) or a number of unconditional things. Unconditional forgiveness seems like a horrible thing to do to someone you love. I think when you love someone you want the best for them, what’s truly best for them (even if at your own expense), which may mean things like withholding forgiveness until they’ve bettered themselves to the conditional point. I think Rand is wrong about withholding love til it’s earned, and maybe it’s partially due to our definitions. I think loving people as I just described is always a good thing. Real love, not give-you-whatever-you-want-love or take-whatever-I-want-love. I think people have a better chance of flourishing when truly loving and being loved and vice versa. I know I’m better because I’m loved and have loved. It is easier for people to become dark, bitter, ugly, and unwholesome without love. So, I guess my stance (I’m just winging it here...) is not that people deserve to be loved so much as love is just the better way. But I don’t know, my own feelings sometimes confuse me. What do you think love is, Manny? This might not be relatable to other INFJs, but I frickin’ love using Ne. It just feels so fun and free. It’s not heavy like Ni. Sometimes after going nuts with Ne, though, I’ll reflect on some of the ideas and recognize glaring problems. Way to ruin the fun Ti. Yeah, my Ni can go crazy, too, since my S is so underdeveloped. I actually appreciate it, though when people disagree with me, especially when they can prove me wrong, but sometimes even when they can’t but just want to explore. I like my concepts, but I do want them to be right. I like when things are corrected, because then you also have a better chance of checking all new and old information more accurately. Why waste more time looking through a crappy framework? It’s better to admit thinking something dumb than being dumb. This may sound strange but in some ways I feel like the more (deeper) wrong they can prove me the better, because then I’m REALLY learning something significant. I guess it’s perspective. You can look at it as, “man, I was really down,” or “man, I’m moving up.” I always like when my mind feels like it’s waking up. I think Ni Fe are really great with helping people feel understood, helping them make sense of what they’re thinking and feeling, and helping them find personalized solutions. Ni can create such encompassing frameworks that you can have an intelligent conversation with anyone. Ti Se sees it and calls it like it is. Pretty valuable if you think reality’s important, I guess. 🤷🏻♀️
Yeah I definitely feel like that sometimes. Also feels like my emotional state is for all to see even though people tell me it's quite the opposite haha.
Okay, the last 30 minutes is my JAM, beyond the scope of personality, psychology, philosophy and such, even though I am fascinated with them big time and have studied those a LOT. McKenna INTP from my some.. way too many hours with him in my ears, both sober and on psychedelics, deep meditation etc. Can obviously be wrong though. But clear INTP to me. Watts, perhaps my most inspirational and "relatable" human ever since I came across him in 2017 after I had a "spiritual awakening", and I was mind blown of how someone spoke of something that I totally understood, resonated with and could never further expand upon. Typing him.. Tough one. Read, listened to (also recommend the chillstep mixes out there with both of them, big time) and watched him and Sadghuru perhaps the most out of all people ever. And I have "sleep:ed" a lot, especially the last years, other than the spiritual practices and self inquiry, which of course has nothing to do with the cognitive functions and one's ego/personality identity tied to that process of the psyche. Actually I got inspired to take this little INFJ intellect and see if I can bring Watts down to at least 2 possible types ( the MBTI ones, to start with. And yes, he was absolutely sleep first or second, and blast last. His whole "thing" when speaking, in lectures for example was p l a y, literally said it himself that "life itself is play, life is meditation" and from a Taoist and Zen perspective, also Yogic ( all 3 are actually beyond "perspectives", these "philosophies" are beyond constructs and mind stuff ), this holds 100% true. He was utterly brilliant, and he acted that "play" out beautifully and profoundly when speaking on these matters of tying the Western and Eastern philosophies and so on together and whatnot ( obviously not just "tying", but cutting it short and simple ). Great talk guys, lots of insights and laughs here. Loved that you mentioned 2 of my favorites in human history too!
Rewatching your videos and the ones you’re featured in...I would still pay for content 😬❤️😅 it’d be so awesome to see you do a livestream one of these days that way you can work your real time TiSe magic. Anddd, I can run all these questions by ya :) hope you’re well !
Would love to do one sometime! Maybe when I get my subscriber count up a bit higher. But to do that I'd probably need to upload some videos first haha. Thanks for the idea!
True true. Good point! Well I hope you’re able to someday! And if you need any video ideas or any questions at all, I have a full Ni storage of them 😁 not sure if that sounds like a good thing to you as an Istp haha, but I’ve got em! Take care 👋🏼
1:43:50, and really, all of this Watts stuff - Self Inquiry is the answer. Non dual spirituality ( Yoga, Zen, Taoism, Advaita Vedanta ). The body-mind alone cannot ever grasp "this". It is natural to all humans, it is our "natural state" if you will, but it is not 'another state'. States come and go. You, the Being, source of creation, "God", presence, never comes and goes - but appears to do so, but only in form, within the framework and concept of time and space. Time and space an illusion of separation, of course, but is experienced and perceived as real, just as "the world". It is just an appearance on the screen of consciousness, and humans mistake ( as we should by taking form (body and mind) by birth to experience the physical ) ourselves to be merely a person, a construct, while in actual reality we are the present moment, creation, God, "Love"( not the bull we think it is, that is just conditions and emotions, temporary and superficial ultimately ). There is only Now, always was and ever will be. And you never die, because you were never born. The "pure Being" that you are, for a while ( until Samsara is 'finished with you' and the delusion of separation ends and you realize that you are the "Universe" itself ) takes itself to be the body, to be the psychological construct created through conditioning in the dynamic, physical expression of consciousness, also called the manifest 'world'. 3.20 Am here and falling asleep completely here lying down writing from bed on the keyboard, but felt called to add some input here. Once again, loved the talk guys, almost finished the whole video in one go now. Namaskaram.
1.04.06 and around, laughed my fucking ass off! I'd love to be part of that too! Protest and show them how superficial and unnecessary that bullshit idea is!
0:00 Inferior Fe
6:55 Inferior Se
12:44 Decider Issues (IPs and EJs)
17:00 Inferior Ni
30:20 More Inferior/Tertiary Ni
44:10 Inferior Te
52:49 Inferior Fi
58:36 Maharaja Grill
1:07:05 Ne Doms
1:10:12 Te vs Ti
1:18:42 Inferior Ne
1:28:55 Alan Watts
1:48:05 Ni + Ti Super Power
My hero. Thank you for doing ^
Two of my favorite people in the type community.
Thanks for the shoutout.
Fun convo. Love the Ne discussion.
You're one of my favorites too! Keep up the good work!
Big love right back atcha
Same! Dave added to that last yesterday!
@@JonasAnandaKristiansson Thanks man, I really appreciate that! Right back at you dude, wishing you the best.
Bless your soul Otim! You are fucking wonderful dude!
I can only re-listen to these two podcasts so many times guys...
:)
We're on it!
Hi! Every time I see you I can’t help but think of how much you look like Nate Berkus. Oddly enough, I have a feeling he may be an Istp too! Maybe. Cool stuff. And nice video. Looking forward to your next one
Loving hearing you two talk about typology and where the cognitive functions take you in the conversation. You two talk in a way thats deep and complex, and makes me actually listen and not Ne out of it. Weirdly gives me hope for humanity haha.
OH MAN! This is going to be lovely!!
I love Otim man.
And when I saw the title.. I was like: "ALAN WATTS REFERENCE - I AM WATCHING!", and upon coming into the video ( after having watched your awesome insightful interview with Joyce and Daniel ) I see Manny/Otim too.
Gonna be a shit ton of fun to see the INFJ ISTP dynamic here. Funny how I only yesterday watched both of your interviews with Joyce and now will binge 2 hours of you two together.
Do you think you will post more videos soon? I'll subscribe either way tho!
Hope this comment was too much Fe-blast (LOL) but I appreciate you man!
Thanks so much for the comments! Means a lot! Yes actually I think we're gonna do another video here in a week. Stay tuned!
You guysssss 10/10
Thanks Lindsay!!
Agree!! But haven't seen this particular video yet! :D
Lol that’s so funny with the boxing and camera. When I see ISTPs being oblivious or not caring about Fe, sometimes, it’s extremely funny watching everyone else’s reactions of, “Uhhh.... ok.... ... .. .” and it’s just interesting feeling the jarring sensation of the ISTP slamming into the social framework. Anywho, I’m only like 11 min in, but I have to go, but I wanted to say a few things.
First, that’s so interesting that Dave puts himself in others’ shoes physically first and the rest follows. I mean, it makes sense with the Se, but it’s so wildly different from how I would or probably could do it. I normally go into it through their processes, how they see things more in their mind, how they make connections.
Also, I don’t know that I agree that Dave would necessarily understand Fe better that way. I think he maybe understands better how to guide someone similar through it, though. But I do agree that Dave’s Fe is ridiculously good for an ISTP, to the point where sometimes it’s like are you a well-developed INFJ or a well-developed ISTP? Of course, the things vs. people helps.
Finally, INFJ, Se, I think, (oof, sorry, too many commas) is different for me. I think I normally Se and zone in on it or I hardly Se at all. Once, I lived with some roommates and one day I was walking past the living room that I walked by every day and was probably in sometimes, and I was like, “You guys changed the wall. That’s nice.” They were confused for a minute. Apparently, they had changed the wall, the furniture placement, and everything like a month ago so... not great on the Se uptake. I can, and sometimes love, Se-ing when the task/stimulation is very simple. Intense and simple. If there’s too much going on, I can’t process and react. It’s best when I don’t have to process at all and I can just feel/hear/see. And I like to feel safe when I Se, because it can be so awkward. I feel that way around ISTPs and their Fe. I don’t know if they feel they need it or want it, but their feeling functions sometimes feel very vulnerable. So, when they do surface, I always feel a natural need to protect it, to provide a safe environment, and value it.
Anywho, have to go, but you two are adorable.
Thanks for watching and thanks for the nice comments :D
DAVE OF ALL PEOPLE (Can I tag Manny? Is that a thing on UA-cam?)
SORRY SO LONG, DAVE!!! I try not to, but not very hard.
Manny, what you said about earning love reminded me of this passage from Atlas Shrugged:
“Yes, I said gold-digger. There are many forms of it, other than greed for money, other and worse. You’re a gold-digger of the spirit. You didn’t marry me for my cash-but you married me for my ability or courage or whatever value it was that you set as the price of your love!” (Jim)
“Do you want... love... to be... causeless?” (Cherryl)
“Love is its own cause! Love is above causes and reasons. Love is blind. But you wouldn’t be capable of it. You have the mean, scheming, calculating little soul of a shopkeeper who trades, but never gives! Love is a gift-a great, free, unconditional gift that transcends and forgives everything. What’s the generosity of loving a man for his virtues? What do you give him? Nothing. It’s no more than cold justice. No more than he’s earned.” (Jim)
Her eyes wer dark with the dangerous intensity of glimpsing her goal. “You want it to be unearned,” she said, not in the tone of a question, but of a verdict.
“Oh, you don’t understand!”
“Yes, Jim, I do. That’s what you want-that’s what all of you really want-not money, not material benefits, not economic security, not any of the handouts you keep demanding.” She spoke in a flat monotone, as if reciting her thoughts to herself, intent upon giving the solid identity of words to the torturous shreds of chaos twisting in her mind. “All of you welfare preachers-it’s not unearned money that you’re after. You want handouts, but of a different kind. I’m a gold-digger of the spirit, you said, because I look for value. Then you, the welfare preachers... it’s the spirit that you want to loot. I never thought and nobody ever told us how it could be thought of and what it would mean-the unearned in spirit. But that is what you want. You want unearned love. You want unearned admiration. You want unearned greatness. You want to be a man like Hank Rearden without the necessity of being what he is. Without the necessity of being anything. Without... the necessity... of being.”
In response to Rand: I don’t know much about love. I do think loving or hating a quality is different from loving or hating a person. Some attributes are bad and should not be loved while others are the opposite, I think. But people... people are a collection of those qualities and maybe something even separate from that? Definitely at least a container and sifter/chooser of those qualities.
I don’t think love is blind. I think being blind is separate from the love itself. Besides, do you really love them if you can’t really see them?
I also agree with Rand that love doesn’t equal unconditional forgiveness (here, I mean something closer to acceptance of the wrongdoing) or a number of unconditional things. Unconditional forgiveness seems like a horrible thing to do to someone you love. I think when you love someone you want the best for them, what’s truly best for them (even if at your own expense), which may mean things like withholding forgiveness until they’ve bettered themselves to the conditional point.
I think Rand is wrong about withholding love til it’s earned, and maybe it’s partially due to our definitions. I think loving people as I just described is always a good thing. Real love, not give-you-whatever-you-want-love or take-whatever-I-want-love. I think people have a better chance of flourishing when truly loving and being loved and vice versa. I know I’m better because I’m loved and have loved. It is easier for people to become dark, bitter, ugly, and unwholesome without love.
So, I guess my stance (I’m just winging it here...) is not that people deserve to be loved so much as love is just the better way. But I don’t know, my own feelings sometimes confuse me. What do you think love is, Manny?
This might not be relatable to other INFJs, but I frickin’ love using Ne. It just feels so fun and free. It’s not heavy like Ni. Sometimes after going nuts with Ne, though, I’ll reflect on some of the ideas and recognize glaring problems. Way to ruin the fun Ti.
Yeah, my Ni can go crazy, too, since my S is so underdeveloped. I actually appreciate it, though when people disagree with me, especially when they can prove me wrong, but sometimes even when they can’t but just want to explore. I like my concepts, but I do want them to be right. I like when things are corrected, because then you also have a better chance of checking all new and old information more accurately. Why waste more time looking through a crappy framework? It’s better to admit thinking something dumb than being dumb. This may sound strange but in some ways I feel like the more (deeper) wrong they can prove me the better, because then I’m REALLY learning something significant. I guess it’s perspective. You can look at it as, “man, I was really down,” or “man, I’m moving up.” I always like when my mind feels like it’s waking up.
I think Ni Fe are really great with helping people feel understood, helping them make sense of what they’re thinking and feeling, and helping them find personalized solutions. Ni can create such encompassing frameworks that you can have an intelligent conversation with anyone.
Ti Se sees it and calls it like it is. Pretty valuable if you think reality’s important, I guess. 🤷🏻♀️
@@cnichols2476 Good points on unconditional love! I haven't gotten into Ayn Rand myself but seems worth looking into. Thanks for your input!
Hi Dave, do you fear that other people can somehow read your mind? I am Ti/Se with blast last and I think it has something to do with demon NF blast.
Yeah I definitely feel like that sometimes. Also feels like my emotional state is for all to see even though people tell me it's quite the opposite haha.
DAVE OF ALL PEOPLE Yeah exactly! I’m not sure if I am your type, but thus far, I know that I am Mx Ti/Se CXX/B
Okay, the last 30 minutes is my JAM, beyond the scope of personality, psychology, philosophy and such, even though I am fascinated with them big time and have studied those a LOT.
McKenna INTP from my some.. way too many hours with him in my ears, both sober and on psychedelics, deep meditation etc. Can obviously be wrong though. But clear INTP to me.
Watts, perhaps my most inspirational and "relatable" human ever since I came across him in 2017 after I had a "spiritual awakening", and I was mind blown of how someone spoke of something that I totally understood, resonated with and could never further expand upon.
Typing him.. Tough one.
Read, listened to (also recommend the chillstep mixes out there with both of them, big time) and watched him and Sadghuru perhaps the most out of all people ever. And I have "sleep:ed" a lot, especially the last years, other than the spiritual practices and self inquiry, which of course has nothing to do with the cognitive functions and one's ego/personality identity tied to that process of the psyche.
Actually I got inspired to take this little INFJ intellect and see if I can bring Watts down to at least 2 possible types ( the MBTI ones, to start with. And yes, he was absolutely sleep first or second, and blast last. His whole "thing" when speaking, in lectures for example was p l a y, literally said it himself that "life itself is play, life is meditation" and from a Taoist and Zen perspective, also Yogic ( all 3 are actually beyond "perspectives", these "philosophies" are beyond constructs and mind stuff ), this holds 100% true. He was utterly brilliant, and he acted that "play" out beautifully and profoundly when speaking on these matters of tying the Western and Eastern philosophies and so on together and whatnot ( obviously not just "tying", but cutting it short and simple ).
Great talk guys, lots of insights and laughs here. Loved that you mentioned 2 of my favorites in human history too!
Most relatable person on youtube, easily. Please make more videos bro, i'd pay for content.
Thats a huge compliment! Thanks bud. Hopefully more content on here soon!
DAVE OF ALL PEOPLE Pft! I wish I could relate more 😫 and make that two! Name a price haha
Rewatching your videos and the ones you’re featured in...I would still pay for content 😬❤️😅 it’d be so awesome to see you do a livestream one of these days that way you can work your real time TiSe magic. Anddd, I can run all these questions by ya :) hope you’re well !
Would love to do one sometime! Maybe when I get my subscriber count up a bit higher. But to do that I'd probably need to upload some videos first haha. Thanks for the idea!
True true. Good point! Well I hope you’re able to someday! And if you need any video ideas or any questions at all, I have a full Ni storage of them 😁 not sure if that sounds like a good thing to you as an Istp haha, but I’ve got em! Take care 👋🏼
Hahahaha 1:46:50 -, too many good laughs this video, thanks!
1:43:50, and really, all of this Watts stuff - Self Inquiry is the answer. Non dual spirituality ( Yoga, Zen, Taoism, Advaita Vedanta ). The body-mind alone cannot ever grasp "this". It is natural to all humans, it is our "natural state" if you will, but it is not 'another state'. States come and go. You, the Being, source of creation, "God", presence, never comes and goes - but appears to do so, but only in form, within the framework and concept of time and space. Time and space an illusion of separation, of course, but is experienced and perceived as real, just as "the world". It is just an appearance on the screen of consciousness, and humans mistake ( as we should by taking form (body and mind) by birth to experience the physical ) ourselves to be merely a person, a construct, while in actual reality we are the present moment, creation, God, "Love"( not the bull we think it is, that is just conditions and emotions, temporary and superficial ultimately ). There is only Now, always was and ever will be. And you never die, because you were never born. The "pure Being" that you are, for a while ( until Samsara is 'finished with you' and the delusion of separation ends and you realize that you are the "Universe" itself ) takes itself to be the body, to be the psychological construct created through conditioning in the dynamic, physical expression of consciousness, also called the manifest 'world'.
3.20 Am here and falling asleep completely here lying down writing from bed on the keyboard, but felt called to add some input here.
Once again, loved the talk guys, almost finished the whole video in one go now.
Namaskaram.
1.04.06 and around, laughed my fucking ass off! I'd love to be part of that too! Protest and show them how superficial and unnecessary that bullshit idea is!
24.11 100%
Lmao tell me your ig Dave
Sorry don't use instagram :)