how i explained to my grandma raiding is. "imagine a choreography where 20 people must make the right steps for 5 minutes straight and always something goes wrong will people get in rythm" . she said she miss dancing when she was young and it sounds fun. adjusting it a bit to who you talk to can hit em differently
I used playing field in baseball for my mother-in-law. Everyone has a role and must perform their role as best as possible but the whole teams needs to react to what happens correctly like where to pass the ball and how to move.
Just venting here, but I think I’m done with M+ and Warcraft until the LFG system gets a complete overhaul. I hit 3600 IO on my rogue in Dragonflight and am sitting at almost 3200 IO in War Within-all through no-voice pugs. But honestly, there are so many games (even free ones) where I can just log in, hit "play," wait a reasonable time, and jump straight into ranked matches. I know the typical response is "WoW is an MMO, it’s not like those games," but that’s exactly the problem for me. If Blizzard doesn’t add a solo queue to M+ to fix issues like "play-meta-or-get-rejected" or "you-need-to-time-this-key-before-you-can-try-it," then I don’t see myself sticking around. At the core of it, the main issue with the system is that- at that level, and honestly any level, OTHER people are responsible for whether you get to play the game or not. LFG is truly a terrible system specifically for ranked M+, and I'm just done with it. I already have to do something I don't want to do (raid) to get the gear I need to push keys, and yea I'm just not doing it anymore. I won't be paying for a sub anymore, I won't be buying any more wow tokens, I've already told my GM I won't be raiding anymore, and I'm just going to play POE2 and fellowship when it comes out. I really hope Fellowship nails it and avoids Blizzard’s refusal to address these obvious flaws. Good luck out there, gamers. GG.
Im kinda in the same boat. Came back in DF and solo no coms to 3k as a squishy hunter was a fucked up experience. Ive got server first raid kills under my belt that were not on a level of weird shit and frustrations as that. I recently did my first 3 keys, all +4s as a tank obviously, or I would not have got in those. 2 chested them all but was it fun or rewarding, nope, not much really was, it was mostly ass and sweaty. lots of shit tier players too yup,. I mean not horrible but going forward Im not too sure about this end result, that is the experience that has come from a culmination of blizz throwing darts, not listening to some important issues either.. Doesn't help that my fav classes are shit as well so can't play those.... Not if you expect to advance, cant play the classes we like...
120 points above cutoff? It's equivalent to high GM in League. Wouldn't be surprised if you had hour+ queues in Wow most of the day. And by the way, in League people sure as shit play the meta champs at that level.
The time commitment involved to go above 11s in M+ right now is so insane. Not even just time taken to get into a key, but if you happen to raid as a spec that's off meta in M+ you are fucked. And you are required to maintain a second character for M+
@@PifnPaf Cutoff for top 0.1% right now is 3200 in NA. High GM in League is Top 0.029%. Top 0.1% in league is like low master tier where people play whatever they want. The difference in League is that if you have the skill you can just queue up and play at a Challenger level. You will get into a game eventually. If youre unlucky in WoW youre sitting in LFG for 5 hours
Yup I feels this exact thing myself, I'm around 3200 too and it sucks that I have to wait for like 40 minutes to jump into a key and I'm playing fucking META healers while you log into League of Legends you press play on ranked and you're in the game within the next 10 minutes
My biggest WoW lie was when I didn't go back to school in the fall because I was still grinding High Warlord in Vanilla WoW. I came home for the summer and got stuck in the grind and I didn't know the exact date when classes started again. Then September crept into October and it was clear I was definitely missing classes but I never truly confirmed. I lied about when classes started to my mother, and I made it seem like I left my home town to any local friends, and lied to my roommate/college friends about what I was doing. Ultimately, I missed the entire semester. Luckily I recovered and life turned out okay (this was literally almost 20 years ago now which is insane)
From Vanilla to Cata I played solo because in my country paying $10 USD a month was not something most people could afford, I was privileged to be able to play then and am still. It wasn't till after Cata that I made friends with people in the game, but I still play many multiplayer games not just wow solo. Some of my wow friends join me in those games but I don't expect my friends to have the same tastes as me. Yes, playing with friends is a solution and maybe it's the technically correct one but it's not always a realistic one. I would bet the majority of players play solo because we can't play the game like a job and are stricter on our schedules because of our commitments, it is what it is. I don't begrudge the people who have turned playing videogames into a job. I appreciate the skill you have and the entertainment you provide. PUGs just mean I can play when my time allows me to and the game becoming less accessible in that scenario means my enjoyment of the game is diminished so a smaller percentage of people have a "better" experience. I don't begrudge you your enjoyment, but it is making my experience worse because I PUG.
The whole conversation around pugging vs solo play vs dedicated group play is rough. Like I don't truly get how many there are like me who WANT to group play, either like we have in the past or want to get into it, but our schedule now doesn't allow for much "I can day for certain I will be available X time"
I just want to say as someone currently in title range, that even though there definitely is too much going on in dungeons mechanics wise, not having affixes is THE BIGGEST FUCKING W ever. Being able to push every week is the BEST and not worrying about affixes but just playing the dungeon can not go understated.
I think there's a bit of internet celeb fog on the playing with friends thing. I play with friends, but there isn't always the right people for the comp of skill level on at the same time. I think the smaller guilds play with friends, but will still need to PUG a fair amount depending on your goals. I've always been in guilds that are AOTC+ capable, but typically only 15-20 active players, and maybe 10ish of them are capable of push north of a +8 without a hard carry. So pugging is sort of the best choice.
As a gameplay focused player who is also legally blind I’m glad to see them introducing new swirlies. Hopefully they continue to work on balancing art/gameplay when it comes to abilities.
please to save yourself the trouble, dont worry about it. It literally will not be worth your time to worry until 1 week before release. They will change so much you and everyone else complaining about shit that literally does not exist yet
When Target came to Canada I worked there as a Flow team member and became a TL(teamleader) for the flow team, it started slowing down and it was kinda hinted we were in a stand still for them deciding if they were pulling out of Canada, I was raiding at the time pretty hardcore so I figured I'd just no call no show figuring like they would just fire me. But nope they called me after 3+ weeks of no show no call and asked if I could start making it in again soon and they'd even let me come in "later then normal" ( 4 am was normal start for flow team) and let me leave at the same time. so I came in around 10:30 everyday for like a week then stopped coming in the store closed I believe 4-5 weeks after that, didnt hear from them again. Mind you I was getting FULL paychecks the whole time about 3 months in total for working 1 week
“The silent majority is people who solo play/queue the game” “Blizzard wants to push people into grouping up and not pugging” Guys answered your own question.
On the topic of telling IRL's about gaming/content creation, when I first started really trying to pursue content creation as a career, for a number of reasons I decided I'd probably have the best chance of succeeding if I was just open with people about it. I was working as a Server at the time at a restaurant and I would just straight up tell them I needed Tues/Thurs nights off because I stream. A few of my managers didn't understand it at all but at least allowed it because they weren't super busy nights. Some of the managers actually understood it to a level and respected that I was trying to make something of a hobby. 2 nights a week felt pretty reasonable for me to negotiate though, I can't imagine trying to convince them I needed 3 weeks off for a WoW Competition, especially if it was during Holiday season LOL.
Heavily impied that I couldn't work Sunday mornings to my 70 year old boss(I did catering, hours were very all over the place) because I was a devout church goer. In reality I was blasting the raid while drinking energy drinks from 8AM to 12PM with my morning raid guild.
Suggested Content - What early dungeon (classic to wrath) would you guys want to see made into an M+ dungeon. I think Pit of Saron has it all. Semi-open layout, interesting bosses, and it has never been remade in any form.
Which wing would you remove though? I hate plague wing trash, but love the boss. I like pvp wing trash, but absolutely hate the boss, or rather I hate the people that actually try to pvp during it.
@@Hubris21easily the plague wing cause of the trash. It’d be cool if they could rotate it but obviously that causes issues with people getting confused with routes and with key timers.
Explaining what raiding is to your boss if you're the GM, RL, or and officer: "I'm basically you. I have to get 20+ other people from all over the country (if NA) or all over Europe (if EU, obviously) to work together long enough to complete a bunch of really hard KPIs. Each task generally takes up to 10 minutes, if you fail, you have to start from the beginning. We need to make a good plan and then get everyone else to do their job. When everyone gets the hang of it, we reach the KPI and it's off to the next task." As a raider, you just say that you work for a badass who organizes shit just like your boss does at work and go into the same spiel, basically :D
People often think biggest deal to have solo que is to make que times faster or anything like that but the point of having solo que is that blizzard will actually see the bullshit they turned m+ into and that they have to actually make m+ accessible not for 0.1% of the players.
@@t.g7545 I don't think of myself as top 0.1%, and I love M+. But I M+ with friends, in comms (discord), as Blizz intended. That way we can coordinate kicks and pathing on the fly. Makes everything way easier. Pugging M+ is handicapping yourself.
@svsv1191 how about designing a game with scaling difficulty so every player can find their own level of challenge. There are rewards out there I will never earn, and I'm ok with that as long as I have room to test my own limits. Not every title or trinket needs to be a participation trophy.
With the discussion around 1:02:40 I feel like delves would be the perfect opportunity to expand on this. They already have the tools they need for this kind of content and what they could do is make harder delves that require a 5 man group almost like old classic dungeons that can reward greater loot but that also require more time/planning in order to fully complete the delve.
I work with a bunch of older women and they are always interested in what people are up to and like to share about their hobbies. Some of their kids game, so they get the basic idea. I explained WoW to a couple of them once as 'a bunch of people getting together to kill dragons and steal their treasure'. Now, every time I take a week off for a new expansion they wish me good luck with my dragonslaying haha
Max, Dratnos, Dorki. You guys need to have a lore guest on the poddy to tell you guys what is going on 😄 Questions like "What's Theatre of Pain here for?" Is never going to make sense until you start looking at the bigger underlying story. The Titans are ordering the cosmos through Domination magic. That's how they do it. Those 2 dungeons are showing the link between the story we're currently in and one we've seen already so when the big reveal does happen in game we have steps that got us there instead of a hail mary. The Amirdrassil raid is in the Emerald Dream. Shadowlands came before. The "Truth" about Azeroth's mirror images is being set up to be told. There is soo much going on lore wise and people have no clue. I think you guys would enjoy a week of some fun lore content 🤙 Keep gaming bro's.
You guys should definitely get heroic raiders trying to break into mythic. And continue to get pug-life players. I don’t know if you need the top .01% players. But someone relatable. Your perspective and opinions and guidance to them would be relatable. You could also do follow up with them in like x-amount of weeks
I always thought that what the pugging scene needs is a heroic mode that's not faceroll. Let M+ be for organized groups that want to push things to their limit, and make heroic fun and rewarding for the average to above average player, instead of completely braindead. They kinda tried it with replacing M0 with HC, but it's still far to easy to be taken seriously. I mean, at it's core HC is queable M0/M+ with fewer things going on, but right now it's just extremely undertuned. Raids by comparison have it completely right: Mythic is for semi-hardcore guilds and above, but HC is still challenging, enjoyable and rewarding for most players.
I mean this in a good-natured way, but I had to laugh at the irony of Max saying he doesn't like tribalism and specifically gaming tribalism, and then IMMEDIATELY turning around and saying how ALL poe players are awful and he doesn't like them. Pretty funny.
On the "play in the group" thing, the big issue there is that leading a guild is a very high-skill endeavor and because of that, most of the guilds just outright suck. There's just simply not enough leading talent compared to the demand for it. Running a good guild is probably not very different from running an actual business team or company IRL, so most of that talent is busy with that instead. On top of that, the game doesn't really have even half-decent tooling for leading a guild, and outside of raid, there's not that much incentive to do that to begin with. I think these are the two top areas Blizzard should look at in order to bolster community thing, instead of making pugging harder, - give more incentives to guilds to exist, and give them more tooling, including a half-decent recruiting system instead of the dysfunctional mess we have.
Mdi idea. In a matchup, the team that loses the first map, can ban a class or spec for the rest of that match. So if team a gets first map (1-0), team b can ban one class or spec. That will of course count for both teams. Is this a good idea or am i just thinking weird?
Fun to watch? Maybe for the chaos. It would be absolutely unfun for people playing, as you need to prep like 3 characters or more if you relied on specific utility for pulls.
While I’ve never requested multiple days off for WoW, I’m usually honest about playing the game with my coworkers. I’ve actually found out that some of them play as well that way!
It is always fun trying to make up a reason to my boss as to why I can’t work Tuesday/Thursday nights (raiding). Usually I just resort to saying I’m in a club or that I give tutoring lessons or something like that lol
Not going to lie, taking a week or two off was never really a problem for me. I have to imagine the reasons are two-fold. My manager is probably thinking "well, we have to let him take his PTO at some point and thank god it's not Christmas or Thanksgiving."
Do a live call show where you pick people in discord to ask and discuss a question. I feel like the live response from more casual players could spark good convos
I loved motherload mythic in bfa. But we were far more powerful back then with far more cleave. I'm excited to see what they do. The mobs density is definitely the main problem but the bosses were amazing
It's interesting you mention wanting diversity in MDI. I don't see a world where this exists but a pick phase (or pick and ban phase) before each dungeon would definately add some variance. But then the competition isn't who is is the best at running a map but the team that's the most diverse at running a map which you can argue is good or bad. Other thing they could do that league has been doing is a "fearless draft" where once you pick something you cannot use it again for that series. Which would add some strategy to what they bring each dungeon. But again the same previous issue arises. Plus I'm going to imagine most of the strategic decision making process will be lost of the viewers. But it would certainly add variety to the dungeons but it's up for debate if it would be good for the players and could also diminish viewership because you no longer get to see the sometimes crazy pulls or strats they have been cooking up
it shows that you guys are really bad at the game lol. You can get 2500io in 5 hours on a 600ilvl char even pugging solo. You lust play your key up to +10 and do that
Ehh I got way past 2500io with just pugs so he can to. But why would he if he has the options to play with friends or a guild grp. Pugging is a nightmare this season, unfortunately I have to pug because I'm hardly on when my friends and guildies are. People can say what they want but the majority pug keys and they need to change M+ because of it.
IT IS A SOCIAL ANXIET YTHING - I dont want to do discord and all that with rando ppl. just make it so interrupts have way shorter CD's if they dont work and other ideas to make it more forgiving plzz
MDI needs some kind of draft, or a limited pool of classes or specializations for teams to choose from before each map/set. Sure, you'd lose the perfectly practiced strategies, but it'd be more fun to watch and maybe alleviate some of the MDI prison stuff.
Confession: I got diagnosed with borreliosis in my teens, bacause noone knew why i was so tired all day long (because i was gaming all night). Sorry mama 😂
What about a snake draft for classes/spec for each map in MDI? Maybe with 1 or 2 bans per team? Like, Team 1 ban, Team 2 ban, Team 1 pick, Team 2 pick, Team 2 pick, Team 1 pick Team 1 pick, Team 2 pick, Team 2 ban, Team 1 Ban, Team 2 pick, Team 1 pick, Team 1 pick, Team 2 pick. Only allowed to ban 1 dps and 1 tank or healer. Would kind of make practice way too much work, having to practice every class /spec in every dungeon. Maybe they can do the draft some time in advance so they can practice the comps that were drafted.. idk. But it would FORCE comp variations.
My argument for lfr needing to be deleted is it dilutes the pool of players when normal is easy enough for most players and the players who its hard for at least have something to strive for. I think in the past it made sense but 3 difficulties is redundant now with how easy normal is. previously it was heroic=mythic, normal=heroic, lfr=normal.
What % buff would you have to give mobs for untimed M+ if same rewards? Or how many key levels do you back up rewards? Maybe move everything one tier higher? Complete no-timer 10s to get gilded, and no-timer 12s to get mythic in vault? Would that be fair?
MDI wouldn't even have to go into complicated systems for mix up the meta like drafting specs or anything, just put out a list of specific talents that can be taken, can literally make a busted spec very average like if they had done it in Dragonflight with the DH tank sigil talents, etc.
On the global release, they could just set it to Wednesday 0AM London time, it would change absolutely 0 raiding schedule, EU guilds guild woul still raid Wednesday night and 99% of guilds don’t raid past 0am-1am a Tuesday. I’m too lazy to think about others region
1:02:06 My go-to allegory for what's fun about video games that isn't against other people is mountain climbing. It has all the elements - you can do it alone or in a group. It's about overcoming a challenge. You'll often go looking for harder challenges, even as each individual challenge is mostly static. You can compete against other people in doing the climb they can't or do it better or faster. You need to prepare and train for it... I'm sure there's more parallels to draw if you need to.
My problem of pugging keys is that after the 5th key where 3 out of 5 players have no fucking clue what they're doing and refuse to listen to anything I just can't be bothered to keep playing without a premade group.
Heroic used to be called “normal.” I thought it was obvious they kept working on “heroic” first. Just cuz they changed the name of what they call something, doesn’t mean they changed their design process.
Not necessarily dungeon pull, even if i don’t like them, but the fact that tank are squishier and healing requirements is harder then before make it that less player play tank or heal, so the pug life is harder. And most of the good one found a group because the other role is harder and they want to avoid the pug too.
Removing key depletion and in turn add max time for keys after which you'll just have to start over. Let people just restart a key if that first pull fails rather than deplete because that one guy got mad. It's impossible to practice keys now without a push group. The system plays against it and pugs have no patience.
As a mainly classic player....retail people have always been the most insufferable lol. "Better game design" "Better class balance" "Classic is nostalgia" "Respect your time". Treating super subjective things like their objectively true is a specialty of these types of people
Some times at work I have to train new people and most of the time they are really nervus when they need to ask for help. I almost always say don't worry I raid lead for over a decade I'm use to people needing me to repeat myself non stop I have unlimited patience for this type of thing. 9 times out of 10 they have no idea what I'm talking about and depending on their age I'll try and explain wow but most of the time I just shrug and say don't worry about it I'm just used to helping people out. The one time I got someone that had played wow in the past and completely understood what I was talking about felt so great.
Hardcore gets boring once you hit lvl 60. The levelling journey however feels so meaningful. When you get out of your way at level 30 and farm 6 different materials for 3 hours to craft yourself a new chestpiece just feels insane when you only have 1 live. Also the adrenaline you get when in a bad situation. And since you have like 1 million fights until 60, there are some bad ones to happen. And then you have to stay cool, while being scared to death (literally), and make good decisions. Use all the buttons you have available (spells and consumables if you are alch or engi) And hearing dratnos smile while talking about poe was exactly how i felt about it :D grinning 2 hours about everything they revealed
I think it's a totally wrong take that people would go slower if there wasn't a clock in m+. People just want to go as fast as possible, and in PUGs especially they will literally go as fast as they think they should, regardless of what the group can do. My obvious evidence for this is things like timewalking, leveling, and even just heroic dungeons. Everyone is constantly going as fast as they can, up to and including pulling when they perceive the tank as going too slowly. Everyone is constantly acting like they are trying to any% speedrun the game.
Right!!!..I have said the same thing in the past, but they will come up with whatever excuse. Like what's the point without a timer ect ect. To which I would say, the point is the same as what it was before M+ and the same reason people raid for fun and loot. If you need a timer for M+ to be fun then idk how you even like WoW tbh. I don't mind the timer but the timer isn't worth the BS it brings to the game. Like having to wait 30mins to a hour for a run they may or may not complete. Not to mention some classes get straight up fuked by not being meta enough. I'd would rather see the timer gone.
Even if there's no timer, there's a timer, in the shape of the time you can put in the game per week. That's why players naturally gravitate towards speedrunning. Nobody wants to spend more than 10 minutes in a leveling dungeon when 90% of the xp comes from finishing it, and nobody wants to spend more than 20 minutes in a crest/gear farming dg either because ain't nobody got time fo that.
No, Blizzard should set the same comp for everyone and tell the teams like 2 weeks in advance. Maybe even a different comp for each day. That would make preparing a nightmare for the team. Haha
I’m pretty casual but couldn’t play solo. I have friends that still mythic raid and run keys with me on their alts where they don’t have to be sweaty. It’s fun for me and a break for them. Lol
It's not explaining to the boss why I need to take time off; they don't care, it's explaining to the wife why I'm taking time off and not spending it with her
I’m definitely only interested in the MDI when it’s a fiesta. Been watching some onlyfangs though. Trying to find streamers that have never played before and aren’t annoying
I sincerely hope they read this comment. There is a sizable group of skilled players that do run keys with friends. But also have to pug because it's not a simple and easy task to form groups every single moment of the day at all times. Because of work, family, outside hobbies and more. You are hearing feedback from this group of players that gearing and pugging is much worse of an experience for them. It's not as simple as just play with friends. It's about respecting my time. The more friction I feel when it comes to gearing, group formation, or simple dungeon philosophy. The less I feel my time is valued.
MDI should have a pick/ban stage just like League of Legends both sides can ban 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 dps. You do ban, ban, pick x3, ban, pick x2, and go back and forth between the teams and tada youll have unique comps.
There's no way a pick/ban system works in WoW the way it works in LoL. I don't mean to infantilize MOBAs, but switching between heroes with four abilities isn't going to be anything like "you banned me from playing resto Shaman? That's fine, I'll just play Disc priest."
That's a terrible idea. Nobody can play more than 3-4 specs at the very highest level of play and the comps are built for their synergies. It would make the MDI into a pug-like shitshow. Nobody wants to watch that.
"play with friends" - my brothers in Christ my friends are worse than pugs.
just play with friends.............who are mythic geared and first page of raider io every season.
worse players with better coordination through voice and just knowing what the next pull is going to be still makes for a better m+ experience
@@_Zir Who stream the game, who only play wow for the past 10 years. "Just join liquid bro"
My dad used to play way way way back, he told his work in the Navy that I broke my arm to get a week off to play.
#legend
wtb max doing a pug off stream on a fresh account to 2500 content
I'd watch the feature length movie fronk would put together of all the highlights
He wouldn't have fun doing that, and he's clearly gotten to the point where he does stuff he thinks will be fun, not just for the viewership.
I think he would rather just fly around dornogal for five hours and then complain that didn't give him any gilded crests :D
He would be passing up millions irl
... bad idea, its way to easy and way to boring
how i explained to my grandma raiding is. "imagine a choreography where 20 people must make the right steps for 5 minutes straight and always something goes wrong will people get in rythm" . she said she miss dancing when she was young and it sounds fun. adjusting it a bit to who you talk to can hit em differently
I used playing field in baseball for my mother-in-law. Everyone has a role and must perform their role as best as possible but the whole teams needs to react to what happens correctly like where to pass the ball and how to move.
Just venting here, but I think I’m done with M+ and Warcraft until the LFG system gets a complete overhaul. I hit 3600 IO on my rogue in Dragonflight and am sitting at almost 3200 IO in War Within-all through no-voice pugs. But honestly, there are so many games (even free ones) where I can just log in, hit "play," wait a reasonable time, and jump straight into ranked matches.
I know the typical response is "WoW is an MMO, it’s not like those games," but that’s exactly the problem for me. If Blizzard doesn’t add a solo queue to M+ to fix issues like "play-meta-or-get-rejected" or "you-need-to-time-this-key-before-you-can-try-it," then I don’t see myself sticking around.
At the core of it, the main issue with the system is that- at that level, and honestly any level, OTHER people are responsible for whether you get to play the game or not. LFG is truly a terrible system specifically for ranked M+, and I'm just done with it. I already have to do something I don't want to do (raid) to get the gear I need to push keys, and yea I'm just not doing it anymore. I won't be paying for a sub anymore, I won't be buying any more wow tokens, I've already told my GM I won't be raiding anymore, and I'm just going to play POE2 and fellowship when it comes out.
I really hope Fellowship nails it and avoids Blizzard’s refusal to address these obvious flaws. Good luck out there, gamers. GG.
Im kinda in the same boat. Came back in DF and solo no coms to 3k as a squishy hunter was a fucked up experience. Ive got server first raid kills under my belt that were not on a level of weird shit and frustrations as that.
I recently did my first 3 keys, all +4s as a tank obviously, or I would not have got in those. 2 chested them all but was it fun or rewarding, nope, not much really was, it was mostly ass and sweaty. lots of shit tier players too yup,. I mean not horrible but going forward Im not too sure about this end result, that is the experience that has come from a culmination of blizz throwing darts, not listening to some important issues either.. Doesn't help that my fav classes are shit as well so can't play those.... Not if you expect to advance, cant play the classes we like...
120 points above cutoff? It's equivalent to high GM in League. Wouldn't be surprised if you had hour+ queues in Wow most of the day. And by the way, in League people sure as shit play the meta champs at that level.
The time commitment involved to go above 11s in M+ right now is so insane. Not even just time taken to get into a key, but if you happen to raid as a spec that's off meta in M+ you are fucked. And you are required to maintain a second character for M+
@@PifnPaf Cutoff for top 0.1% right now is 3200 in NA. High GM in League is Top 0.029%. Top 0.1% in league is like low master tier where people play whatever they want.
The difference in League is that if you have the skill you can just queue up and play at a Challenger level. You will get into a game eventually. If youre unlucky in WoW youre sitting in LFG for 5 hours
Yup I feels this exact thing myself, I'm around 3200 too and it sucks that I have to wait for like 40 minutes to jump into a key and I'm playing fucking META healers while you log into League of Legends you press play on ranked and you're in the game within the next 10 minutes
dorki as new kendrick album cover goes hard
He's a cat.
Saying to your boss you organize with 19 other people to kill bosses goes hard
i wish dratnos streamed his weekly stuff and poe and stuff. he's fun to listen to and just legit never streams
My biggest WoW lie was when I didn't go back to school in the fall because I was still grinding High Warlord in Vanilla WoW. I came home for the summer and got stuck in the grind and I didn't know the exact date when classes started again. Then September crept into October and it was clear I was definitely missing classes but I never truly confirmed. I lied about when classes started to my mother, and I made it seem like I left my home town to any local friends, and lied to my roommate/college friends about what I was doing. Ultimately, I missed the entire semester. Luckily I recovered and life turned out okay (this was literally almost 20 years ago now which is insane)
From Vanilla to Cata I played solo because in my country paying $10 USD a month was not something most people could afford, I was privileged to be able to play then and am still.
It wasn't till after Cata that I made friends with people in the game, but I still play many multiplayer games not just wow solo. Some of my wow friends join me in those games but I don't expect my friends to have the same tastes as me.
Yes, playing with friends is a solution and maybe it's the technically correct one but it's not always a realistic one. I would bet the majority of players play solo because we can't play the game like a job and are stricter on our schedules because of our commitments, it is what it is. I don't begrudge the people who have turned playing videogames into a job. I appreciate the skill you have and the entertainment you provide.
PUGs just mean I can play when my time allows me to and the game becoming less accessible in that scenario means my enjoyment of the game is diminished so a smaller percentage of people have a "better" experience. I don't begrudge you your enjoyment, but it is making my experience worse because I PUG.
Well said
The whole conversation around pugging vs solo play vs dedicated group play is rough. Like I don't truly get how many there are like me who WANT to group play, either like we have in the past or want to get into it, but our schedule now doesn't allow for much "I can day for certain I will be available X time"
The slander of Timthetatman never playing wow is criminal
Yeah, dident he play the game from classic and to bfa ?
It's Dorki. Guy always sounds like he just woke up before the pod, brain probably still rebooting during the show
I just want to say as someone currently in title range, that even though there definitely is too much going on in dungeons mechanics wise, not having affixes is THE BIGGEST FUCKING W ever. Being able to push every week is the BEST and not worrying about affixes but just playing the dungeon can not go understated.
I think there's a bit of internet celeb fog on the playing with friends thing. I play with friends, but there isn't always the right people for the comp of skill level on at the same time. I think the smaller guilds play with friends, but will still need to PUG a fair amount depending on your goals. I've always been in guilds that are AOTC+ capable, but typically only 15-20 active players, and maybe 10ish of them are capable of push north of a +8 without a hard carry. So pugging is sort of the best choice.
As a gameplay focused player who is also legally blind I’m glad to see them introducing new swirlies. Hopefully they continue to work on balancing art/gameplay when it comes to abilities.
Put a red outline around my character on screen if I'm standing on a surface that will cause damage. Lava, aoe, whatever
The Darkflame Cleft is going to burn me out of M+ week one.
They really need to rework the Darkness part.
please to save yourself the trouble, dont worry about it. It literally will not be worth your time to worry until 1 week before release. They will change so much you and everyone else complaining about shit that literally does not exist yet
@@kenlonwells2219I am already burned out of darkflame, I had to farm it for the mythic stonevault mount
Candle pun?! 🤭
Brackenhide Hollow went through the same thing and people are acting like they don't remember. Give it a chance
I play Wow alone all the time. I love it.
for normal corporate world, saying youre having a "staycation" is a completely acceptable answer that noone will follow up on.
Also you just don't have to tell people what you're doing. I take time off, I come back after. I'm not about to tell my boss what I was up to
For 3 weeks twice a year? Nah no way lol
Man this dorki background is next level, well played. GNX!
2:27 Dorki is spot on what makes HC fun. It's the closest thing to a vanilla wow experience.
When Target came to Canada I worked there as a Flow team member and became a TL(teamleader) for the flow team, it started slowing down and it was kinda hinted we were in a stand still for them deciding if they were pulling out of Canada, I was raiding at the time pretty hardcore so I figured I'd just no call no show figuring like they would just fire me. But nope they called me after 3+ weeks of no show no call and asked if I could start making it in again soon and they'd even let me come in "later then normal" ( 4 am was normal start for flow team) and let me leave at the same time. so I came in around 10:30 everyday for like a week then stopped coming in the store closed I believe 4-5 weeks after that, didnt hear from them again. Mind you I was getting FULL paychecks the whole time about 3 months in total for working 1 week
idk why but Dratnos pronunciation of the word "been" as bean is getting to me now.
“The silent majority is people who solo play/queue the game”
“Blizzard wants to push people into grouping up and not pugging”
Guys answered your own question.
Sign up for no Friday, ain't raiding Friday. Maybe i need some time to chill
Nothing helps me feel more immersed in wow than getting hit by frontal in dawnbreaker that I was 3 feet away from where the graphic tappers off.
I learned the hard way that the Darkfall Tactician's frontal attack (which the telegraph looks like a line) is a cone
@@jamesjohnsoniii8068 If an obvious cone. If it looks like a line, your graphic settings are too low.
On the topic of telling IRL's about gaming/content creation, when I first started really trying to pursue content creation as a career, for a number of reasons I decided I'd probably have the best chance of succeeding if I was just open with people about it. I was working as a Server at the time at a restaurant and I would just straight up tell them I needed Tues/Thurs nights off because I stream. A few of my managers didn't understand it at all but at least allowed it because they weren't super busy nights. Some of the managers actually understood it to a level and respected that I was trying to make something of a hobby.
2 nights a week felt pretty reasonable for me to negotiate though, I can't imagine trying to convince them I needed 3 weeks off for a WoW Competition, especially if it was during Holiday season LOL.
the dorki photo is so good. one of the best yet
Heavily impied that I couldn't work Sunday mornings to my 70 year old boss(I did catering, hours were very all over the place) because I was a devout church goer. In reality I was blasting the raid while drinking energy drinks from 8AM to 12PM with my morning raid guild.
about the 42:15 discussion: clearly Max does not understand peer pressure haha
Suggested Content - What early dungeon (classic to wrath) would you guys want to see made into an M+ dungeon. I think Pit of Saron has it all. Semi-open layout, interesting bosses, and it has never been remade in any form.
Magister's Terrace is always a Nostagia pick for me when old dungeons in M+ comes up
All my friends quit WoW, they hated this season.
If they removed a wing for theater of pain, it would be much less of a drag to play. Less flavor, but you can chop so much time off.
Which wing would you remove though? I hate plague wing trash, but love the boss. I like pvp wing trash, but absolutely hate the boss, or rather I hate the people that actually try to pvp during it.
@@Hubris21easily the plague wing cause of the trash. It’d be cool if they could rotate it but obviously that causes issues with people getting confused with routes and with key timers.
Explaining what raiding is to your boss if you're the GM, RL, or and officer: "I'm basically you. I have to get 20+ other people from all over the country (if NA) or all over Europe (if EU, obviously) to work together long enough to complete a bunch of really hard KPIs. Each task generally takes up to 10 minutes, if you fail, you have to start from the beginning. We need to make a good plan and then get everyone else to do their job. When everyone gets the hang of it, we reach the KPI and it's off to the next task." As a raider, you just say that you work for a badass who organizes shit just like your boss does at work and go into the same spiel, basically :D
Chinese MDI is an absolute banger, the 45 minute plaguefall incident in shadowlands is probably the funniest wow content ever produced
If they ever convert M+ to random queue, they will also have to dumb it down for uncoordinated groups.
People often think biggest deal to have solo que is to make que times faster or anything like that but the point of having solo que is that blizzard will actually see the bullshit they turned m+ into and that they have to actually make m+ accessible not for 0.1% of the players.
@@t.g7545 I don't think of myself as top 0.1%, and I love M+. But I M+ with friends, in comms (discord), as Blizz intended. That way we can coordinate kicks and pathing on the fly. Makes everything way easier. Pugging M+ is handicapping yourself.
Design for the majority not 1%
@svsv1191 how about designing a game with scaling difficulty so every player can find their own level of challenge. There are rewards out there I will never earn, and I'm ok with that as long as I have room to test my own limits. Not every title or trinket needs to be a participation trophy.
@@joveonlightbringer9684 I don't care about rewards, you avoided my point.
yall should do a list of your favorite games of 2025 outside of wow and rank them from 5-1, branch out from wow a little bit
With the discussion around 1:02:40 I feel like delves would be the perfect opportunity to expand on this. They already have the tools they need for this kind of content and what they could do is make harder delves that require a 5 man group almost like old classic dungeons that can reward greater loot but that also require more time/planning in order to fully complete the delve.
I work with a bunch of older women and they are always interested in what people are up to and like to share about their hobbies. Some of their kids game, so they get the basic idea. I explained WoW to a couple of them once as 'a bunch of people getting together to kill dragons and steal their treasure'. Now, every time I take a week off for a new expansion they wish me good luck with my dragonslaying haha
Max, Dratnos, Dorki. You guys need to have a lore guest on the poddy to tell you guys what is going on 😄 Questions like "What's Theatre of Pain here for?" Is never going to make sense until you start looking at the bigger underlying story. The Titans are ordering the cosmos through Domination magic. That's how they do it. Those 2 dungeons are showing the link between the story we're currently in and one we've seen already so when the big reveal does happen in game we have steps that got us there instead of a hail mary. The Amirdrassil raid is in the Emerald Dream. Shadowlands came before. The "Truth" about Azeroth's mirror images is being set up to be told. There is soo much going on lore wise and people have no clue. I think you guys would enjoy a week of some fun lore content 🤙 Keep gaming bro's.
Who gives a fuck about the story lol
You guys should definitely get heroic raiders trying to break into mythic.
And continue to get pug-life players. I don’t know if you need the top .01% players. But someone relatable.
Your perspective and opinions and guidance to them would be relatable.
You could also do follow up with them in like x-amount of weeks
I always thought that what the pugging scene needs is a heroic mode that's not faceroll. Let M+ be for organized groups that want to push things to their limit, and make heroic fun and rewarding for the average to above average player, instead of completely braindead. They kinda tried it with replacing M0 with HC, but it's still far to easy to be taken seriously.
I mean, at it's core HC is queable M0/M+ with fewer things going on, but right now it's just extremely undertuned. Raids by comparison have it completely right: Mythic is for semi-hardcore guilds and above, but HC is still challenging, enjoyable and rewarding for most players.
I mean this in a good-natured way, but I had to laugh at the irony of Max saying he doesn't like tribalism and specifically gaming tribalism, and then IMMEDIATELY turning around and saying how ALL poe players are awful and he doesn't like them. Pretty funny.
lets be real, Max is a giga blizzard chill and hates someone saying that D4 is bad
100%, especially how hes always defending the store mounts and shit. All he thinks about is money@vitorfportugal
On the "play in the group" thing, the big issue there is that leading a guild is a very high-skill endeavor and because of that, most of the guilds just outright suck. There's just simply not enough leading talent compared to the demand for it. Running a good guild is probably not very different from running an actual business team or company IRL, so most of that talent is busy with that instead. On top of that, the game doesn't really have even half-decent tooling for leading a guild, and outside of raid, there's not that much incentive to do that to begin with. I think these are the two top areas Blizzard should look at in order to bolster community thing, instead of making pugging harder, - give more incentives to guilds to exist, and give them more tooling, including a half-decent recruiting system instead of the dysfunctional mess we have.
Mdi idea. In a matchup, the team that loses the first map, can ban a class or spec for the rest of that match. So if team a gets first map (1-0), team b can ban one class or spec. That will of course count for both teams. Is this a good idea or am i just thinking weird?
Fun to watch? Maybe for the chaos. It would be absolutely unfun for people playing, as you need to prep like 3 characters or more if you relied on specific utility for pulls.
Best MDI game ever was when dorkys team met Echo in sanguine depths in Shadowlands.
Dorky wiped.
Echo wiped.
Dorky wiped.
So many wipes ❤
What if MDI had picks and bans on class/specs?
While I’ve never requested multiple days off for WoW, I’m usually honest about playing the game with my coworkers. I’ve actually found out that some of them play as well that way!
It is always fun trying to make up a reason to my boss as to why I can’t work Tuesday/Thursday nights (raiding). Usually I just resort to saying I’m in a club or that I give tutoring lessons or something like that lol
Next week for the podcast you should talk about raid buffs some more
in-game voice was in game since BC btw ^^
I don't lie, I put the PTO so far in advance that it shouldn't matter.i get it everytime.
how many times we changing this title dawg
For next poddy, could you do like "the iceberg" of what it takes to git gud?
Not going to lie, taking a week or two off was never really a problem for me. I have to imagine the reasons are two-fold. My manager is probably thinking "well, we have to let him take his PTO at some point and thank god it's not Christmas or Thanksgiving."
Do a live call show where you pick people in discord to ask and discuss a question. I feel like the live response from more casual players could spark good convos
I loved motherload mythic in bfa. But we were far more powerful back then with far more cleave. I'm excited to see what they do. The mobs density is definitely the main problem but the bosses were amazing
It's interesting you mention wanting diversity in MDI. I don't see a world where this exists but a pick phase (or pick and ban phase) before each dungeon would definately add some variance. But then the competition isn't who is is the best at running a map but the team that's the most diverse at running a map which you can argue is good or bad. Other thing they could do that league has been doing is a "fearless draft" where once you pick something you cannot use it again for that series. Which would add some strategy to what they bring each dungeon. But again the same previous issue arises. Plus I'm going to imagine most of the strategic decision making process will be lost of the viewers. But it would certainly add variety to the dungeons but it's up for debate if it would be good for the players and could also diminish viewership because you no longer get to see the sometimes crazy pulls or strats they have been cooking up
Max can never get to 2500 if he play pugs only
it shows that you guys are really bad at the game lol. You can get 2500io in 5 hours on a 600ilvl char even pugging solo. You lust play your key up to +10 and do that
Ehh I got way past 2500io with just pugs so he can to. But why would he if he has the options to play with friends or a guild grp. Pugging is a nightmare this season, unfortunately I have to pug because I'm hardly on when my friends and guildies are. People can say what they want but the majority pug keys and they need to change M+ because of it.
Link your raiderio
I got to 2300 in 10 keys in the last 24 hours on a fresh leveled aug. You're just really bad at the game.
i pugged my way to 3,6k rio (+28) in df s3. this season is no different. hate to break it to you guys, but you suck at the game. 2,5k is...pisslow.
IT IS A SOCIAL ANXIET YTHING - I dont want to do discord and all that with rando ppl. just make it so interrupts have way shorter CD's if they dont work and other ideas to make it more forgiving plzz
MDI needs some kind of draft, or a limited pool of classes or specializations for teams to choose from before each map/set. Sure, you'd lose the perfectly practiced strategies, but it'd be more fun to watch and maybe alleviate some of the MDI prison stuff.
Confession: I got diagnosed with borreliosis in my teens, bacause noone knew why i was so tired all day long (because i was gaming all night). Sorry mama 😂
What about a snake draft for classes/spec for each map in MDI? Maybe with 1 or 2 bans per team? Like, Team 1 ban, Team 2 ban, Team 1 pick, Team 2 pick, Team 2 pick, Team 1 pick Team 1 pick, Team 2 pick, Team 2 ban, Team 1 Ban, Team 2 pick, Team 1 pick, Team 1 pick, Team 2 pick. Only allowed to ban 1 dps and 1 tank or healer. Would kind of make practice way too much work, having to practice every class /spec in every dungeon. Maybe they can do the draft some time in advance so they can practice the comps that were drafted.. idk. But it would FORCE comp variations.
My argument for lfr needing to be deleted is it dilutes the pool of players when normal is easy enough for most players and the players who its hard for at least have something to strive for. I think in the past it made sense but 3 difficulties is redundant now with how easy normal is. previously it was heroic=mythic, normal=heroic, lfr=normal.
What % buff would you have to give mobs for untimed M+ if same rewards?
Or how many key levels do you back up rewards?
Maybe move everything one tier higher? Complete no-timer 10s to get gilded, and no-timer 12s to get mythic in vault? Would that be fair?
UA-cam just be farming W's
If you raid 9 hours, you raid 9 hours, dont be mad because he wants to stick to that
I have a couple buddies we have been in blizz voice for years. We enjoy being in raid discord with push to talk and our private chat open mic
Dorki is the most agreeable :D
MDI wouldn't even have to go into complicated systems for mix up the meta like drafting specs or anything, just put out a list of specific talents that can be taken, can literally make a busted spec very average like if they had done it in Dragonflight with the DH tank sigil talents, etc.
damn that dorki pic turn around still going crazy
On the global release, they could just set it to Wednesday 0AM London time, it would change absolutely 0 raiding schedule, EU guilds guild woul still raid Wednesday night and 99% of guilds don’t raid past 0am-1am a Tuesday. I’m too lazy to think about others region
1:02:06 My go-to allegory for what's fun about video games that isn't against other people is mountain climbing. It has all the elements - you can do it alone or in a group. It's about overcoming a challenge. You'll often go looking for harder challenges, even as each individual challenge is mostly static. You can compete against other people in doing the climb they can't or do it better or faster. You need to prepare and train for it... I'm sure there's more parallels to draw if you need to.
MDI with "fearless draft" from league would be cool
My problem of pugging keys is that after the 5th key where 3 out of 5 players have no fucking clue what they're doing and refuse to listen to anything I just can't be bothered to keep playing without a premade group.
Maybe for every off-meta class your comp has in it you get to start before the other team x seconds
Heroic used to be called “normal.” I thought it was obvious they kept working on “heroic” first. Just cuz they changed the name of what they call something, doesn’t mean they changed their design process.
Not necessarily dungeon pull, even if i don’t like them, but the fact that tank are squishier and healing requirements is harder then before make it that less player play tank or heal, so the pug life is harder. And most of the good one found a group because the other role is harder and they want to avoid the pug too.
Sometimes I'll say I'm in an adult softball league and we play tuesday thursdays
KIN Raiders who got world first in Dragon Soul were Korean not Chinese.
I am enjoying the season, but like you I game with friends in discord.
I am also finding it harder to interest friends in pushing past 10s.
MDI, but the teams have to draft the specs... so only 1 team gets a fire mage, 1 team gets an outlaw rogue...
Removing key depletion and in turn add max time for keys after which you'll just have to start over.
Let people just restart a key if that first pull fails rather than deplete because that one guy got mad.
It's impossible to practice keys now without a push group. The system plays against it and pugs have no patience.
Well at that point they just cheap give M+ the delve lvl system instead of having a key.
As a mainly classic player....retail people have always been the most insufferable lol. "Better game design" "Better class balance" "Classic is nostalgia" "Respect your time". Treating super subjective things like their objectively true is a specialty of these types of people
Do you think blizz has like a dungeon pool bell curve where they have a couple that are awesome and then one or two that are nightmares on purpose?
i 100% lie about playing WoW at work. i took time off and told them i went back home
Max was selfish for him not having his best interest in his happiness not raiding OT
Some times at work I have to train new people and most of the time they are really nervus when they need to ask for help. I almost always say don't worry I raid lead for over a decade I'm use to people needing me to repeat myself non stop I have unlimited patience for this type of thing. 9 times out of 10 they have no idea what I'm talking about and depending on their age I'll try and explain wow but most of the time I just shrug and say don't worry about it I'm just used to helping people out. The one time I got someone that had played wow in the past and completely understood what I was talking about felt so great.
Hardcore gets boring once you hit lvl 60. The levelling journey however feels so meaningful. When you get out of your way at level 30 and farm 6 different materials for 3 hours to craft yourself a new chestpiece just feels insane when you only have 1 live. Also the adrenaline you get when in a bad situation. And since you have like 1 million fights until 60, there are some bad ones to happen. And then you have to stay cool, while being scared to death (literally), and make good decisions. Use all the buttons you have available (spells and consumables if you are alch or engi)
And hearing dratnos smile while talking about poe was exactly how i felt about it :D grinning 2 hours about everything they revealed
I think it's a totally wrong take that people would go slower if there wasn't a clock in m+. People just want to go as fast as possible, and in PUGs especially they will literally go as fast as they think they should, regardless of what the group can do. My obvious evidence for this is things like timewalking, leveling, and even just heroic dungeons. Everyone is constantly going as fast as they can, up to and including pulling when they perceive the tank as going too slowly. Everyone is constantly acting like they are trying to any% speedrun the game.
Right!!!..I have said the same thing in the past, but they will come up with whatever excuse. Like what's the point without a timer ect ect. To which I would say, the point is the same as what it was before M+ and the same reason people raid for fun and loot. If you need a timer for M+ to be fun then idk how you even like WoW tbh. I don't mind the timer but the timer isn't worth the BS it brings to the game. Like having to wait 30mins to a hour for a run they may or may not complete. Not to mention some classes get straight up fuked by not being meta enough. I'd would rather see the timer gone.
Even if there's no timer, there's a timer, in the shape of the time you can put in the game per week. That's why players naturally gravitate towards speedrunning. Nobody wants to spend more than 10 minutes in a leveling dungeon when 90% of the xp comes from finishing it, and nobody wants to spend more than 20 minutes in a crest/gear farming dg either because ain't nobody got time fo that.
No, Blizzard should set the same comp for everyone and tell the teams like 2 weeks in advance. Maybe even a different comp for each day. That would make preparing a nightmare for the team. Haha
and the viewer
I’m pretty casual but couldn’t play solo. I have friends that still mythic raid and run keys with me on their alts where they don’t have to be sweaty. It’s fun for me and a break for them. Lol
It's not explaining to the boss why I need to take time off; they don't care, it's explaining to the wife why I'm taking time off and not spending it with her
I’m definitely only interested in the MDI when it’s a fiesta. Been watching some onlyfangs though. Trying to find streamers that have never played before and aren’t annoying
The changes they made for classic classic is godtier additions only
I sincerely hope they read this comment. There is a sizable group of skilled players that do run keys with friends. But also have to pug because it's not a simple and easy task to form groups every single moment of the day at all times. Because of work, family, outside hobbies and more. You are hearing feedback from this group of players that gearing and pugging is much worse of an experience for them. It's not as simple as just play with friends. It's about respecting my time. The more friction I feel when it comes to gearing, group formation, or simple dungeon philosophy. The less I feel my time is valued.
Well I didn't lie to my boss, however, i did (5 days before WoD released) accidentally break my leg so was off work.
MDI should have a pick/ban stage just like League of Legends both sides can ban 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 dps. You do ban, ban, pick x3, ban, pick x2, and go back and forth between the teams and tada youll have unique comps.
What about a draft system. Blizzard give them 20 specs, 4 thanks, 4 healers and 12 dps. And they rotate to take 1 on turns.
There's no way a pick/ban system works in WoW the way it works in LoL. I don't mean to infantilize MOBAs, but switching between heroes with four abilities isn't going to be anything like "you banned me from playing resto Shaman? That's fine, I'll just play Disc priest."
That's a terrible idea. Nobody can play more than 3-4 specs at the very highest level of play and the comps are built for their synergies. It would make the MDI into a pug-like shitshow. Nobody wants to watch that.
Did they change the title?
I've been playing wow at an AOTC+/Portal level M+ for 3 years, and I have no idea how to use in-game coms.