Ubuntu's Decline
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- When Ubuntu came on the scene in 2004, it made desktop Linux viable to many with its ease of use and friendly layout. Instead of constantly improving this and becoming the “King of All Distributions” it took a very different path. While I still use Ubuntu server with some caveats, I will NOT use Ubuntu Desktop.
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Website Article: christitus.com/ubuntu-decline/
it snaps !
Hi Chris, can you please make an Odysee channel? I prefer to watch videos off of UA-cam. You can set it up so that it automatically mirrors everything you upload to your UA-cam channel.
Ubuntu had the best OS until Gnome 3, They threw out the prefect Linux distro and started over. They completely failed. I have not used any distro that uses Gnome 3/ Unity crap. Would rather use windows, and I can not stand windows. If they never started over we would be main stream now. Now Manjaro is basically following the same path of destruction.
Thanks again for making this video. I thought the article had great content. And you did briefly talk about Ubuntu desktop versus server OS, which is something many do not understand.
@@garyjenkins7861 I have no problem with Gnome 3, as it still is oriented for using keyboard and not click around. And the defaults in Gnome is still way better then KDE, for instance. KDE really need to snap up on their defaults to be usable for beginners (AND thus get more users). That is the single reason why I still prefers Gnome before KDE, every day of the week.
I saved a couple of seconds everyday by switching from Ubuntu. Now I am an immortal with unlimited time.
currently on my ubuntu 24.04 with hyprland, it's fast (yeah even the containerized firefox is instant loading (
@@alienews0your computer would likely run better with Mint or basically any other Linux distro though. If you haven't tried it, I highly recommend Mint.
every day* = noun phrase
everyday = adjective
You can get the deb version of Firefox. That's what I did. The instructions are on the official Firefox page and elsewhere.
@@encycl07pedia- Bro you are hurting my heading with big fancy words that I don't understand. What's the difference between a noun and an adjective? A noun is something that is a "thing" right? So isn't an adjective an "action"? Or is that what a verb is?
Fun fact: Snap is indeed so bad, a former canonical employee made a script to replace it with flatpak packages
While the official statement says the script is not intended to be taken that way, it's clear in between the lines
The repo is (popey/unsnap)
Not just any Canonical ex-employee, but Alan Pope himself, who was the guy in charge of promoting Snap. Make of that what you will.
Looking in my /snap folder - there is only Spotify I use. So no issue to me. Ubuntu is fine visually and seems fast and stable to me.
@Fashinqu A. Google? First result should be Popey's github repo titled unsnap.
Thanks will check that out. I use Ubuntu (what I know) but with manual flatpak installation of pretty much all I use. I still fall back on their stability as a noob. Happy that they finally brought up wayland, but still exploring fedora and cent os; regardless, thanks for info as it may save me hugh headaches in future.
@@andrewnorris5415 Yep this is the only app I install via snap
There needs to be a easier way to get standardized linux
is sad that we are at the point that we have to "debloat" ubuntu
Not a bad idea for a video... lol
Time to take a dive on that arch install weve been putting off.
Edit: been using arch and i love it. Learning curve was fun.
the answer is to use a better distro
That's what I did. I just installed Ubuntu 23.04 and completely purged snap and all snap apps. Added filters so snap is never accidentally installed. Now it's much better, very fast.
@@ChrisTitusTechplease make one video on this topic 🙏🏻
Linux Mint, MX, PopOs.
They are probably the best options for beginners and for people who just want their system to work.
Word
Fedora is pretty beginner friendly.
I just got Pop is on my laptop from windows 11 and it's so good!
True that! popOS is the only one that consistently works for me.
I’ve been using PopOS on a MacBook from 2014 and I’ve had a pretty good experience so far
Thank you, Chris. For me, as someone who was involved (not employed) in the community, everything that brought me to Ubuntu with Warty Warthog was slowly dropped by Mark and Canonical. I know that convergence was his real goal and once that was dead his interest in the desktop faded.
It really feels like it all died when the edge failed….
Looking back I feel like they expected one or two big industry players to match the massive community support and get the thing to launch, but nobody stepped up to challenge Google. Everyone either had their own secret phone projects and didn’t want Ubuntu to succeed or they were too in Google’s pocket.
@@dstinnettmusic So sad man , I miss the excitement of Ubuntu Touch
Thry genuinely had really great ideas and if they were to pull it off I think it would've been an AWESOME true rival to google
@@abdullahzafar4401 ubuntu touch still exists as UBPorts... recently the pixel 3a got 100% support, (including waydroid) but volte is still a work in progress which is a dealbreaker
Is Warty Warthog a real Warthog, those small pig looking critters with big tusks
ubuntu touch was a massive loss for canonical and ubuntu desktop didn't make much money so canonical shifted to where the money is, ubuntu server, and even more so because they planned to make an IPO
I use Ubuntu 22.04 and i love it. I have tried many distros in the past but i always ended up installing unbuntu as my main os.
I use Kubuntu. It seems like the Ubuntu series is more feature rich. For example, installing nVidia's driver is easy.
OpenSuse is sort of easy. Their GUI was confusing when it came to install and uninstalling software and drivers.
The best I have seen in that department is Windows.
Blames Firefox, the slowest shittiest browser on all platforms, for snaps. Says thunderbird takes a few seconds when it took less than 1.
@@louistournas120 linux mint offers cinnamon, mate & xfce only.
@@louistournas120 duh.
@@laracroftonline ew
Obligatory comment complaining about how you pronounce Ubuntu, even though it doesn't actually matter at all and 99% of us pronounce it that way anyways :P
You should hear how Jody Bruchon pronounces Linux.... "LIN-OX"!!!😂🤣😆
it's ooboontoo
But... there is also GAH NOME! lol.
I do find the pronounciation a little weird to my ears been a South African :-) But who cares? So long as you are able to understand each other it doesn't matter 🙂 As for Ubuntu it's self, I've never really liked it. Didn't find it user friendly for myself as someone who knows about enough to put an OS on my pc and it doesn't go much further than that. I found Linux mint so much easier to use. I'm still on it over 3 years later.
One thing that has gotten better over the years, but still needs a bit more work, is the instructions for ubuntu based distros, has gotten so much easier, that a lot of the stuff now I can look up and just copy paste. Eventhough I have no idea what it is doing. But gets the job done 🙂 and many a time if I don't find it now, about a month or so later a issue may be resolved or a solution for it put on the net that is easy to figure out.
Canonical did not kill off "Ubuntu One". It was an account service that came with online storage called "One Drive" and was slated for including DRM for media collections to increase Canonical's revenue stream from its desktop userbase.
Microsoft got sued by the Sky media network for the use of the term "Sky" in their "Sky Drive" office product. So Microsoft did a deal with Canonical to buy the "One Drive" trademark, as a result Canonical shut down quickly their Ubuntu One service. As a result Canonical made more money from the sale of the trademark than they ever did make from their premium tiers of One Drive storage service.
*Bonus Factoid: My hard copy of The Linux Bible (4th edition) has a copy of Ubuntu 4.10 on the attached CD of live distributions.
These days I am using Pop!_OS because it has all the hardware advantages of Ubuntu and by default only uses Debian and Flatpak package managers with slimy snot that is 'snap' excised from the system. Ubuntu minus snaps in the form of Pop!_OS is actually very usable, reliable and aesthetically pleasing by comparison
Sadly this is a very common tale in human history. Becoming a rising star because you're providing a great alternative to your competitor, and then becoming the entity that you hated and swore to fight against and as a result alienating your hardcore fans.
OnePlus?
@@mvwouden my first thought
A tale as old as time it's self, I'd say.
I lived it. I tried Ubuntu 24.04 yesterday and my God it was so slow. And the Steam snap is STILL buggy and broken after all this time. And when I tried to uninstall the Steam snap, it hung up in the uninstall process for like an hour. I am not super sensitive to slow app startups, but snaps are on a different level. They're so slow you sit there staring at the screen. And there were other bugs -- while I had Discord running or a UA-cam video playing, if I tried opening something as basic as the File manager, the video would skip and pause! I was just shocked at how bad the experience was. By the time I was finished downloading and flashing a Fedora ISO to a USB, the Steam snap was still stuck in the uninstall state. Incredible.
Yes! Thank you! Ubuntu was what got me into the world of GNU/Linux. Stopped using it a couple years ago, because of how bad it got. Sad to see.
Stopped using it when it became Microsofts alpha-tester of touch-screen display/window-manager.
it's worse on those laptops with HDD or limited space SSD
My last ubuntu was 16.04 and I was THE ABSOLUTE BEST, everything went down to being simply just bad after that
no longer for human beings
I started with 6.06 if i remember well, still use ubuntu but the best is long gone, for me 12.04 was the last good one and best one ever.
I installed Mint a few days ago because the snaps in Ubuntu drove me crazy. This video might be a year old, but still true.
Literally me. I had light Ubuntu experience in the past so when I switched off Windows I figured it'd be the best for me. But those forced snap installs made me turn to Mint and never look back
I noticed these issues. This past week I installed Ubuntu as my first Linux distribution and was confused why the performance with basic applications was so bad.
I would strongly recommend Fedora. I've used all the distros pretty much including many years on Gentoo. But when I want something that just works? When I want to get shit done? Fedora. I'm not saying arch, gentoo, and others are bad per se, I would recommend them as a means of learning.
Ubuntu Mate does a decent job... The developers take a slightly different path than the other variants, it even includes Flatpack support out of the box to prove the point. However, I agree, Ubuntu is more focused on their corporate/server side now a days. They have some good software, but the standard Gnome desktop isn't one of them.
Indeed. Howevver, Ubuntu lost me when they tried the "Unity" desktop thing. It was horrible because nothing was listed by default, instead you had to use this super slow search function to get anything to show up.
Yes
@@youngthug4193 Ironically, since I posted this 22.10 was released and they did an amazing job with Gnome this time around. I'm actually running it as my daily driver on my laptop now.
I think this is why Linux Mint is so popular, its pretty much ubuntu without snaps, plus cinnamon is a nice DE
Yeah, and Clem their lead dev knows his shit. There is no way he'd let something like this fly.
Another bonus with Mint, they didn't make it hard to enable snaps if you really need/want to use them.
@@ChrisTitusTech That explains a lot. After years of distro hopping, about 2 years ago i tried mint and never looked back. It's fascinating to me how fast it is and easy to use even tho i don't have good knowledge of terminal. Also, thanks Chris! It's thanks to you that i know about Linux world.
I've stuck on MINT, my last employer used a mixture of MINT and Ubuntu in their lab machines. This was before Snaps, so I could have gone either being familiar with both I tried Snaps for a couple of things in MINT then binned it, just now waiting for the next MINT which is about due.
LMDE has become the Ubuntu of yesteryears. It's what I put on my mom's laptop.
I'm definitely not a beginner, and I mostly use FreeBSD, so maybe other people would have different opinions, but:
For server, if I can't use FreeBSD for the task, then my go-to distro is vanilla Debian. I can't think of any reason why anyone would pick Ubuntu over it. On a server, you want the absolute minimum features necessary to run your application and nothing else. Debian does that. You get a very minimum install, and you apt-get whatever you need on it.
For desktop, Linux Mint Debian Edition seems to be very beginner friendly without any of the rubbish that comes with Ubuntu.
Completely agree. Vanilla Debian has never failed me in any task I've tried and Mint is my go to for a beginner recommendation for Linux.
Main problem with Debian (at least from my experience) is a) not as easy to install as some other distros for new users (especially if you use proprietary drivers), b) typically up to 3-year-old packages unless you use debian unstable (which I don't recommend, since it has all the drawbacks and very few of the benefits of a rolling release distro), and c) lack of new hardware support. For a server, Debian is great, but on the desktop, it has problems. On the desktop, I would recommend Linux Mint, KDE neon, an Ubuntu flavour (they tend to have less of the problems of stock Ubuntu in my experience, and are definitely faster), or Manjaro.
Why don't you use OpenBSD tho. It's much more secure due to reduced attack surface because of less unnecessary feature for server like Bluetooth. It also have less breakage for the same reason, right?
@@prototry Mainly because it doesn't have zfs.
I have also used Debian since 97 and I have tried other distros like Ubuntu when it came out. But I always come back to Debian. However I am very impressed with LMDE I have it running on a laptop of mine it's a gem to use. I also use MX Linux in a VM and think it's a very underrated OS. I would encourage anyone moving away from Ubuntu to try LMDE,MX Linux or Vanilla Debian.
Meanwhile it literally takes 1 second to install the standard Firefox and remove the snap iteration. The entire thesis for this video is that because the snap version of firefox is a bit slow the entire Ubuntu operating system and ecosystem is "slow and pointless". Truly hilarious...
Yea, unfortunately the linux community is rife with opinionated and aggressive folk who try to appear superior by criticizing others.
I think Snaps is NOT about Ubuntu not caring anymore. In a world of FOSS alternstives, the LAST thing a company would want is to p*ss off its users. Snaps HAS advantages. A company/school/enterprise does not care about a few more seconds of loading a program. Its us neckbeards who complain. Snaps mission isnt speed after all. Ubuntu goes the MS/Apple way of 110% seemless noob user experience. "Good" is a HIGHLY subjective term. I definitely should make a video about Ubuntu "going mad/down". I think it will rise even further.
its not even that noob friendly when you have like 3 steam snaps and 2 ungoogled chromium one. One is official and another is someones own personal moonshine mix. At least flatpak has better metadata support to show only one option. This might be why LTT had so much issues installing steam on Pop OS
I don't think that not including videoplayer by default and using really buggy app center by default is particularly noob friendly
snaps do wonders in servers but take up more space than flatpaks which don't work on servers at all
Thanks for the video! I've never liked Gnome or Unity for that matter. I always went with Mate or XFCE even when I used Ubunutu. Currently I like Mint Cinnamon due to it's ease of use and similarity to the Winblows of old that I learned on. I do hope that Ubuntu can recover from their decline in the user experience since I think they could be great again.
you have not used manjaro .😮💨
@@Rei-m3g I have tried Manjaro and found it to be a good distro. I prefer Mint Cinnamon for now.
try plasma manjaro baby,. its so smoooooth
@@Rei-m3g Manjaro broke for me on a fresh install while just trying to update the system that even with terminal. Also Manjaro had some bugs no matter which DE I try. Doesn't happen with Linux mint or KDE Neon.
@@sifatullah7568 That's rolling releases off of an arch base for ya
You are right and honestly right.
I may not have used Ubuntu for a very longtime like many of you - I started with 14.04 LTS. However by the time we were getting to 18.04 LTS and 20.04 LTS, I realised something:
1. The OS ISO was getting larger with every release
2. The OS was becoming much more buggy and after a while it would Freeze no matter how powerful the PC was.
I switched to Debian. And I have been all smiles
Huh is Debian how much easier then ?
@@jebeifinn443not easier, but at least you know what you‘re getting; it’s better, especially if you know what you’re doing.
It's not declining that fast, most people I saw in Dev community were all Ubuntu or MacBook Air (WSL is a gimmick, still it has more users than Fedora). It is still the most used Linux, people like it or not. Unity was the most polished Desktop Linux had. Lxd is pretty good, I wish they marketed it. It will take a long time for Ubuntu to decline. The only distro that will beat Ubuntu is Mother Debian, which is pretty amazing in comparison to Ubuntu. For most common and not nerdy people, Linux means Ubuntu only.
That Ubuntu is not gonna dying so soon everyone knows. But, Ubuntu is losing their "beginners distro" thing. Nowadays is just a lot easier to just use Mint or Pop_OS instead, or even Fedora, without all the snap packages and with nice releases. Ubuntu now is nothing but boring.
Agree with just about everything you say in the video. I find Xubuntu or Linux Mint XFCE far easier to use than the standard Ubuntu. In Xubuntu I don't really notice Firefox being slow to start.
Xubuntu will unavoidably inherit Snap packaging from Ubuntu. You will have to switch distros to Manjaro, Debian, Fedora, Suse eventually.
@@winlux2 That's why OP cited Linux Mint, which keeps the very good accessibility and compatibility of Ubuntu with proper .deb packages instead of snaps.
Oh and even if I'm happy with xfce, the project is really slow paced and not well polished compared to Mate.
Ubuntu's final nail in the coffin was announcing they wanted move away from deb packages.
I've tried Ubuntu numerous times over the last 15 years. But I always end up staying with Debian Sid. Ubuntu is toooooo bloated.
I switched to Debian several years ago myself, except I went with Stable.
@@fredmckinney8933 During a few months I used Ubuntu (it was in fact Xubuntu because coming from WinXP, Unity was too disorienting) then quickly switched to Debian Squeeze.
Stable for desktop provides a very resilient workstation. Some bugs time to time but the only reinstall I had to do during my 10 years of use was because of playing too much with backports and installing systemd through it.
@@PainterVierax Yeah, I tried Unity once -- made my head hurt. Same for GNOME. And KDE, except for different reasons, although I could come closer to tolerating KDE. MATE, Xfce, or, if I need the performance boost, Openbox are more my speed. Cinnamon ain't half bad, either.
I generally recommend PopOS! for Gnome, Manjaro for KDE and Mint for Cinnamon. Sadly, Ubuntu has been off my radar for about 5 years and counting. That's unfortunate since Ubuntu 5.04 (2nd Ubuntu release) was the first Linux distro that was good enough to become my daily driver, so it holds a special place in my heart. It was the first distro that could reliably play DVDs without frame drops, a big deal back then. And Ubuntu Forums was a game changer, I learned more about Linux there than anywhere else.
Pop is for Cosmic shell.
If you want Gnome, you want Fedora.
And Fedora for everything.
My mother uses mint for daily driver and it’s says that it’s so much easier then using windows 10 or 11
Pop is not gnome but a heavily customised version of it in the form of cosmic, Manjaro has a really good out of the box customised gnome experience, Fedora if you want vanilla gnome. Although Mint was my first distro, these days I use Manjaro KDE, Fedora was good and very polished and at bleeding edge of everything, but I always missed the AUR, plus for my particular hardware linux would crash if I did something graphically intensive which can be solved by inserting certain kernel parameters, a workaround that only seems to work with arch and debian based distros.
@@thelakeman2538 I recommend PopOS! because I think it's actually a pretty solid Gnome experience. I don't like what the Gnome project is doing these days and I think the System76 guys have the right idea as they try to move away from it to their own thing.
I've recently moved to KDE Manjaro and have been shocked at how well it's working for me. This is after running XFCE Manjaro for 2 years. I've not used Fedora recently, but I generally ignore it because I prefer a Debian based package manager for people new to Linux.
Other already mentioned it, but Pop_OS is a solution to the problems you are mentioning. It has all the good desktop environment, has ripped out snaps, and does a great job in having great NVIDIA drivers that are tested and really 1st class parts of their distro.
Does pop support HDR streaming or gaming?
And does is properly support Optimus?
Now if it just rebased to Debian ;)
Or maybe Arch? But yeah, it's the best Ubuntu based desktop experience
It does not have proper boot menu...
@吉田あぢべ That would be a deal breaker for me too. But given that I use gnome, and was on Fedora for years the transition to Pop was pretty easy. I had a wish to move from rpm to something ubuntu based for a long time.
Ubuntu didn't decline, other "easy to use" Linux distros just caught up
I'm kina liking Ubuntu 22 Jammy Jellyfish. It's stable and polished imo. Also the drivers work immediately for Nvidia and my usb monitor.
hate the snaps love everything else... heres hoping the scrap the snap
It may work currently, but LTS releases are horrible for user devices. When we got my grandma a laptop I tried to install Ubuntu to it. That laptop was nothing fancy, all the hardware in it was at least 2 years old. But the last kernel in that Ubuntu release was older, so that laptop, without a physical network port, had no wireless drivers.
What a truly great experience, would recommend to anyone wanting to use LTS, you learn for life trying to get that shit running.
@@9SMTM6 you can backport the newer kernel into LTS. Also 2 year old hardware is still pretty new.
@@pandasticus yes you can. But first you'd need to get proficient in linux. Not only that but you need to do so on anther computer and somehow pack it in an iso, or buy an network adapter to USB (that actually is recognized by that kernel!).
A process that seemed far to difficult for me, who back then used arch btw🤓.
And no, 2 year old hardware IS NOT "pretty new" for newly bought user hardware, which is the spot in time when someone often installs an os.
Which is my point. LTS may be great for servers and all, but it's horrible for an user facing distro (not just for that reason), just the same as snaps are.
@@9SMTM6 had the same problem, they corrected it in 22.04 to expand compatibility for more of the realtek and intel cards that refused to play with linux for a long time. same situation with a real shitter of a lenovo with no ethernet port. Made me furious.
For me my interest in Ubuntu ended when I discovered:
1. Bad wireless nic support on some versions.
2. Bad update steps.
3. Updates killing my gui modz leaving me unsatisfied.
I find it weird that people are remembering Unity fondly! I can clearly remember it dividing the Ubuntu community and so many people jumping ship.
yes, hence lbuntu / mint ect... those dark days were never spoke of again xD.
Ubuntu is the ROCK of linux. They may experiment with different technologies but if something doesn't work well they simply drop it in future versions. It's the long term winner. Other distros may get 5 minutes of fame but if what they were doing is any good these features will simply get incorporated in future versions of Ubuntu. Ubuntu will be here in 20 years time, 99% of the other distros wont be
exactly ! currently on my ubuntu 24.04 with hyprland, it's fast (yeah even the containerized firefox is instant loading (
So i have been through quite a few linux distros myself and I tend to prefer things that are not as user friendly. I also have a family, and Since I decided to make the switch from windows to Linux, I chose ubuntu because it is a bit more User friendly. My husband is not really all that tech savvy and I gnome for the simple fact of ease of use. For both my husband and my daughters. The one thing I love about linux is the fact that I will never need to pay for a net nanny. I can monitor usage on my own. Even in ubuntu. Plus with the way Valve is going Linux gaming is more accessible. I do recommend though that everyone install flatpak. Just to have the extra options. The desktop is not slow for me at all either it is much faster than windows 10 and 11 by far. It is nice to not have to fight my operating system anymore.
I have been using Ubuntu exclusively since 2006. In the past year, I installed Awesome Window Manager. Ever since then, the system is so much better. I have nothing to complain about. This setup works well in all my machines, from old Thinkpad, to my modern powerful workstation.
This is amplified on older machines too- my i3 struggled. Upgraded my machine & installed Linux Mint w/ Gnome environment - has been a pleasant experience. I personally really like Gnome & the side layout that Ubuntu defaults.
You might try to remove the Firefox snap and install the Mozilla version of Ubuntu deb-package. Are getting much more light way and snappier. Still some snap packages for Gnome though. But as that is only started once, it isn't that big problem.
@@AndersJackson This is a good point, will use this method if I find myself on Ubuntu later on.
Gnome is awful, tablet ui.
@@Syphonpsx Interesting take, is this the reason you dislike it? Its simplicity in visual & functionality? I find the simplicity very accommodating in my workflow if customized a bit.
First started using Ubuntu when it first came out with Warty 4.10. Was there for the first Fedora Core also. The glory days were pre unity I think. Ubuntu 10.10 was the last Gnome 2.x and then 11.04 was when Unity first came out. I can say it took a LOT away. I always for fun on the panel had "Eyes" installed. A pair of eyes that followed the mouse around the screen. It was fun. I made folders on the panel to hold multiple files, change the clock format and location if I wanted, all sorts of things. ALL of the customization I liked was thrown out when Unity came out. Now I use Zorin on one laptop, and Mint on another. (Cinnamon and XFCE DE's) The whole point of Ubuntu was to make Linux for humans. Then they got to big, and Mark was spending millions of his own dollars to keep it going so they needed a income source. Enter Amazon integration. Now I actually had no issue with it there, BUT it did slow down the computer a lot, and if you wanted to look for a local file, it would first search Amazon, even if it was not a product. If they could have separated the searches or just used the Amazon app by itself I think it would have been more successful. I ended up like most uninstalling the Amazon shortcut and disabling its search, which made searching instant again. Then the Ubuntu Edge smart phone issue...they tried to raise 50 Million dollars, and I think it got to "Only" about 35/40 Million. That would still should have gotten them a start, as working prototypes were made and out. I can say I was really hoping for the converting from a smart phone to a full desktop. Install the newest Steam and Proton for games and somehow make new versions that can use a E-GPU? It had options, but business is business...
Since almost 4 years ago I've been using Ubuntu for web development and I love it. Yes, it could be better, but as it is now, is great. Not slow for me, most of the tools I try simply work. The only drawback in my context is that you can't use Bluetooth headphones properly. I agree that snaps can take a few seconds to load the first time but I don't restart my machine for weeks, so that is not something meaningful to me either.
Hey Luis, you can modify the Bluetooth settings file to avoid headphones connection issues. By default, my apple headphones were not able to connect.
As someone who doesnt work in IT snap is very helpful because it contains a lot of applications that are not available through simple apt-get install in other distros.
Once I tried to run openSuse, I liked it, but my third monitor didn't work because manufacturer was only developing drivers for Windows/Mac and Ubuntu, while giving note that if you are using other distro just build from source, well it didn't work, it took me a week of internet research, I saw many threads with same problem, and no solution was found at the end anyway. Finally, I just broke my OS after installing god knows what, so I reinstalled Ubuntu.
It may be harsh, but an operating system without big corporation behind it is unusable for non-technical people, unless all you do is internet consumption.
SNAP - Slow 'N Absolutely Pointless
The first Linux distro that I used was Ubuntu 10.04, it was not very good at that point (FYI, Linux couldn't even natively play mp4 files at that time , only ogg was supported) , then I purchased a magazine called "Electronics for You" which came with an Ubuntu 12.10 DVD (I still have it) , and that was the first Linux I installed in my main computer alongside Windows.. I didn't update Linux that frequently, but here's my useage order:-
Ubuntu 12.10
Ubuntu 14
Ubuntu 16
Ubuntu 18
Linux Mint 20
Pop_OS 21
Linux Mint 22
And well it's been quite a journey, Linux still has some rough edges in things like gaming, but it's nowhere near to what it used to be 10 years ago, and I'm happy for it..
10.04 supported mp4 if you installed the codecs, 8.04 even had mp4 support.
Damn I remember Electronics for you and there CD's. My uncle used to buy it every month, they had subscription. I didn't understand any of it but I installed games which came in the CD and enjoyed watching the photos of tech in the magazine. I was child at that time. Did that from when I was 10 year old until a few years back when we stopped buying the magazine.
Ubuntu 22.04 has seven snap packages installed - one from Mozilla and the others from Canonical. The only delay I notice is with Firefox which isn't really that bad. If snaps are unreliable and not secure then that's a different issue. Ubuntu server 20.04 and 22.04 each have three snaps.
I think the Ubuntu was great till the other distros also push out the more beginner-friendly desktops. Mint is a good example of this: mostly was based on Ubuntu, but they polish out the LMDE which is better than a forked fork like the bloated Ubuntu these days.
Yeah, I've seen multiple people refer to Mint as "Ubuntu except good."
Linux Mint is great, both extremely user friendly with more and more tools getting GUI equivilents for new users while also not trying to reinvent the wheel. My only issue is that, last time I checked, there isn't a GUI flatpak store installed by default which would really improve the user experience a lot. Still, it deserves its title as Ubuntu but not broken.
I tried LMDE5 and although it starts out feeling the same as mainline Mint, the differences pop up when you start installing and configuring things and the regular "Mint compatible" packages start having problems. I'm good with not relying on Canonical, though, if they can keep improving LMDE with more in-house development.
Same problem for 20 + years.
Mint is my desktop Linux go-to these days. Fedora is also looking quite good at the moment.
I use Kubuntu for the desktop. I think that somewhere someone was having a rant that the calculator was a snap package and took 5 seconds to load - that's just crazy. What I do like about ubuntu is that I can run it on my entire stack from a raspberry pi to my laptop to my desktop to my HP Polient Server.
I think you would really like KDE Neon, which combines the latest KDE on top of a stable Ubuntu LTS base. Been running it for over a year now and find no real need to go back to Kubuntu.
I honestly haven't been a fan of Ubuntu since Canonical kicked the beautiful and efficient Unity desktop. As if that wasn't enough, the forceful integration of Snaps was the nail in the coffin for me. I started my Linux journey with Ubuntu and it's always had a soft spot in my heart, but I still would never choose to use it unless they decide to pick up where they left off with 16.04 LTS. Ubuntu just isn't as reliable and dependable as it once was. It's too unpredictable, you never know if the next release will be better or worse than the last one. Now I daily drive Linux Mint and never look back. Mint is an amazing distro that is guaranteed to improve with every release and is rock solid. My absolute favorite part is the package manager. All Mint components are standard Debian APT packages and it has Flatpak (which is far better than Snap) installed just to give people a more broad selection of software from the Software Manager. I wish Canonical would step up their game with Ubuntu, but until they do, you won't see me using it.
That's a big part of the problem, and it's something I criticize Windows for. People generally want you to pick a vision for your interface and stick with it so they're not forced to relearn (or retrain) every time there's a major update. If I want my desktop completely rearranged, I'll choose a different distro variant, thank you very much! Cinnamon is very good for those of us who think Microsoft peaked at Windows 7.
@@bryede That is a good way to look at it. Linux distros with a constant focus are generally much better. Like you said, Linux Mint is relatively the same with each release, with upgrades that everyone can agree are actually updates - not changes that only half of the users actually like. As for Windows, Microsoft definitely peaked at either XP or 7, one of the two. But Linux Mint is far better than any version of Windows if you ask me.
Snaps are indeed the bane of Ubuntu.
I don't think canonical really care about users anymore. They've been focusing more on corporations. They're just following the money. Understandable, honestly. After all, they're just a corporation, but just don't bother with the distro anymore.
Ubuntu has always been my favorite Linux distro. In fact, this is an Ubuntu setup that I use every day. It works well with what I need. Granted, I don't develop software as much as other users, but as far as for web development and remote server management, it works best. The last Windows I used was 10, which came installed and it told me the hard drive was permanently damaged and a new one had to be installed. Because I'm involved in technology and know Windows should never be trusted for diagnostics, I formatted the hard drive and installed Ubuntu.
Ubuntu is awful
@@Syphonpsx Be specific. What don't you like about it? Every user has different needs and preferences.
As a web dev Ubuntu servers are all I use too. He's just criticizing the desktop version. At the end of the video he says that Ubuntu is now just a server business and they don't care about the desktop anymore. He's not wrong.
I've switched to Pop_OS for desktop. Pop is similar to Ubuntu, but improved in many ways, including better performance.
@@crisvis8905 I've been using Ubuntu desktop for the past few years and it works perfectly for me. I'm not running any servers at the moment, so I can't comment on that.
@@DerekThomasLirio Just watched a vid on new Ubuntu update. Looks really good and snap lag seems to have reduced. Going to try it out this weekend.
Nailed it. Chris! So sad to see the mighty fallen on hard times. We too had a bad experience with Snap. For me, Unity was a similar slo-mo event on our elderly netbooks (at that time), but Bodhi Linux (built on a 'buntu LTS server base) rescued us back around 2011 (was it really that long ago?).
Back then, Bodhi simultaneously provided the solid 'buntu server base melded with the newly-stabilised Enlightenment desktop - unusual, yes, but so lean and speedy with surprising levels of bling. Today it uses the 'Moksha' desktop, an E17 fork maintained by Bodhi and we are still happily using it to sustain old hardware within our posse of family and friends. It's properly minimalistic, but shares the 'buntu repos, so plenty of options. You are right, building on a 'buntu server base is pretty good!
Every time i start distro hopping, i end up coming back to Manjaro KDE. I love the way the Manjaro folks have setup their distro in a way that lets you get going with your work 5 minutes after installation. Pop OS is also good but I prefer KDE in general. I'm really loving Fedora as a base distro but the extremely plain default setup just takes too much time to configure to my liking (and while not as bad as snaps, I'm not a fan of flatpaks either)
Since you don't like snaps and flatpaks, what do you use?
I am a beginner.
@@archit_kr if arch just use aur
So what are your feelings on Kubuntu?
@@aycc-nbh7289 never used it but seems like its just kde on ubuntu, u can get kde on pretty much everything. still never used it so idk much.
i use kde tho and its my favourite one out of all.
@@slowverb8460 It comes with KDE pre-installed so one does not have to go through the hassle of installing it after the core OS install is complete. It’s also the fastest operating system I’ve ever used on a physical machine.
This is why Linux desktop will never be a thing for mainstream users. I don't care about the other distros, that's not an option when you are trying to compete with Windows and Mac.
I feel like Ubuntu is like Vista for me, it worked for what I needed it for, and didn’t have the problems anyone else had.
I would Agree it is indeed Like VIsta in 2 cases: You have been using GNOME desktop, or any version of Ubuntu 22.04 (all very very bad though speedier)
Having an older laptop until 1.5 years ago, I installed Ubuntu to "give back live" to my slow laptop. It was faster than Windows 10, I give them that, but haven't seen a clear difference. Plus the fan was always working like it did with Windows 10. So I decided it wasn't worth the work and deleted it.
At the very last months of my old laptop I decided to give another distro a try and installed Mint. The difference was very very clear. Much better working laptop, fan was surprisingly quiet. Having now a "gaming" laptop I gave Ubuntu another chance, wasn't again amazed and continued with Mint (Windows as dual boot for Windows only work related softwares) and will never give Ubuntu a chance again.
Deciding if I should switch to Arch at the moment to got even more speed but I'm not sure if it would be worth the effort and would make a significant difference in a high end laptop.
I use Zorin OS, and I like it a lot more. They have lite version for under powered PCs like PC sticks.
I switched to Fedora. And I have never turned back.
Is this video sponsored by Microsoft?
Well I think 😭
NPC comment
May be😂
He compared it to Fedora though.
He's sponsored by fedora💀 (no hate to fedora, but i will still use ubuntu if i was forced to use linux)
@ChrisTitusTech did your view change more favorably at Ub 24.04 ? I loved it.
lol I installed it last night 24.04 I feel the same. They nailed it with 24.04.
Installed Ubuntu on my sisters laptop. She just uses it for schoolwork and browsing the web. She hasn’t complained and I removed those snap packages. I actually like Ubuntu it’s a perfect beginner friendly desktop!
Snapd made my life so much easier as a system administrator.
My company uses centos 7 and installing new packages on a old operating system has been a nightmare. Snapd just makes server utilities work out of the box with no issues.
That's a wonderful video Mr Chris!👏
I totally agree with you spapd makes Ubuntu slow, except this Ubuntu is still a good Linux distribution, Yet, personally i switched to arch linux experimenting it with some fantastic tiling windows managers like Xmonad, awesome and dwm i hope you prepare for us some tricks and tutorials to manage then in efficient way.😊
I strongly supporting you with tons of my friends in Africa my great mentor Chris, Keep it up! ✌️Respects 🤩🙏
I switched to opensuse tumbleweed.
Moved from Ubuntu to Manjaro. But Ubuntu is what got me into Linux.
I liked Ubuntu around 14.04 to 18.04. I used it briefly, but ended up settling on Linux Mint (liked the look and feel better). Tried 21.04 in a virtual machine and hated it. I think that was when they started using snaps by default. It felt so sluggish compared to other distros. I thought it might have been the VM, but I guess I was wrong. I never used it as a daily driver (I've been switching between Manjaro and vanilla Arch), so it's interesting to see and read other people's experiences. Great video!
Ubuntu is like that woman that gave birth in her teen years and never got to live her dreams and everytime she tries to do so she's Hindered by her kids.
100% agree, I'm not fanatical about performance so I still install ubuntu on some machines for the look and the functionality out of the box, but when you switch to other distros you can clearly see the difference. Hope Canonical finally find some good solutions because I'm also attached to Ubuntu (having been my first linux experience)
Snaps makes me think of the toilet, where I go to "snap one off"
Good rundown on Ubuntu, Chris. As a lng time Ubuntu user, still use ubuntustudio as my daily driver for audio and video stuff. I have, however. just started to use Fedora 36. albeit in virtual machine after watching your comparison linux distro video. I hate the continual dependence on snaps and flatpaks. I remember when it was the distro for the masses for ease of use, not anymore. As soon as I get all my stuff working on Fedora will probably switch. Full implementation of pipewire is key for me.
There is even a fedora jam edition that uses kde plasma by default.
Having interviewed with Canonical for an engineering position, I'm not surprised by Ubuntu's decline. There are major corporate culture issues.
How did you deduce that from an interview? Sounds like sour grapes from a rejected candidate.
@@CasinoWoyale I had 5 interviews that all went well, and then one with the CEO that went off the rails. Check the Canonical reviews on Glassdoor... Theyare pretty grim.
And indeed, for a CEO to interview an engineering candidate in a company the size of Canonical is a bit of a WTF all by itself.
I think Ubuntu needs some tough love at this point. I also believe your channel has gotten big enough that they may hear your comments and take note. I have always rooted for Ubuntu over the years. I will still root for them and celebrate any success they have.
Using Ubuntu desktop after like 9 months of Manjaro KDE its insane how sluggish Ubuntu feels even with a fresh install.
For me the Ubuntu high point was 12.04 LTS. I used 12.04 until it was no longer supported. I didn't care for the Amazon additions in 14.04, even though I could remove them. After 12.04 I just got away from Ubuntu. I tried 22.04, but the snaps are just too slow to load. That, and many of the snaps are outdated and no longer maintained.
Well, I had a little discussion when one guy asked linux users what is the best distro to start using Linux and the answer from 90% of people was "Try Linux Mint". I few years back the answer 100% would be "Try Ubuntu". I think it is pretty self explanatory.
mint is Ubuntu
@@sixdroid not really. It is based on Ubuntu. Yeah, it is Ubuntu. And Ubuntu is Debian.
Canonical could give us options to choose at the time of installation. This would be one way to solve this perfromance issue. I switched to Debian for all my business (own) laptops due to this startup lag in snap applications.
Ubuntu BASED distros tend to have the easiest experience of installing and setting up NVIDIA drivers. Hopefully that changes. But I personally use Kubuntu at work and on my laptop and I love the experience.
sudo apt purge snap # my first command in a fresh Ubuntu
Same. Both on Desktop and Server.
sudo apt install snap # Canonical's first command after updating/installing something in Ubuntu in the future.
@@themedleb Oh, I hope not. That being said, I believe they basically do redirect to the snap version of Firefox and Chromium if you try to use apt to install them.
@@GeekIWG Yeah that's what I heard too.
If the only problem of Firefox (snap) were the slow cold startup time, then I would end up accepting it in the end. What makes Firefox (snap) unusable is that it is so buggy: plasma integration does not work. And many other small things things do not work. How can they ship something that doesn't work in a LTS ?? The slow startup time is the least of my problems.
Plasma integration is broken for Flatpak Firefox too.
I remember 10+ years ago when Ubuntu became popular to PC Enthusiasts. So many Windows users were pissed at Vista and declared they were switching to Ubuntu!!!
Within a week - most people's reaction were, "I have no idea how to use this., I'm going back to Windows..."
The biggest problem with linux is, fixing problems. On Windows i have some issue, i open google and search for the key words and 9 of 10 times i can fix the problem. On Linux when i have a problem, it is a like marathon run in linux forums and 9 of 10 times i cant fix the problem and it is annoying, when you cant fix smallest things.
I think one benefit of running Firefox in a snap is snaps are sandboxed, so that would help with security because the web browser is one area where your system could be compermised.
Snaps are yet another example of pointless, laggy, bulky abstraction used because programmers wanted to do things the cheap and fast way instead of the right way.
And mostly the evil corp wanted to have total control over the source and packages in order to finally create a paywall and heavily monitize the entire linux snap store at some point.
I've never had the issue free experience I've had on some distros, on Ubuntu. Ubuntu is pretty off the bat, but beyond that it's been disappointing for me. Fedora, Debian and Manjaro have all been great.
Mint is also based on Debian or Ubuntu, but good, as someone wrote.
Slow and pointless? That's ME!! I feel called out!
Thanks for this. I’ve been getting more annoyed with the slowdown in Ubuntu and am looking to changing to a different distro. I just hate the idea of wiping my drives and reloading all the software. I can do it, I just don’t have a lot of time to devote to the task. Oh well. Sooner or later, I will have to take that route. I’ll just have to review some of your past videos on different distros. I want “fast”.
Thanks,
JohnB
If you have a spare hard drive, dump your current install to a file using clonezilla. Then copy over your user folder to that drive as well.
Then install the new distro (maybe KDE manjaro), plop your user folder in it and start installing software through the package manager as you need it. It's not like windows where you have to set up each software again, all configuration is stored in your user directory. So all software you install will launch with the configuration of your old distro.
It will take you an evening at most
And if you mess up, you have the backup with clonezilla to fall back to.
@@AJ-wf1vh Manjaro has worse problems.
@@madthumbs1564 it's not perfect but it's a rolling distro that has everything in its software repository
Ofc if you only use chrome it will be more hassle than it's worth
Imo if you want a fast/Stable distro which is also full of recent updates
Fedora is a great place to look. Its secure, stable, Easy to use and up to date. Its also "Vanilla" with its des (Pretty much Vanilla KDE plasma or Gnome)
I've had a great experience so far with it and almost no issues, its very intuitive
@@madthumbs1564 Debian 11?
The unity desktop environment was a great experience back then, Miss that these days
Haha I think it was 2007 - Ubuntu saved me from Windows Vista - I had a BSOD and failed repair, so I got a CD and saved some of my files and installed it.
I was an experienced Windows user and could remember off the cuff a list of easily a thousand or more softwares you could install to make things work - best antimalware, a rake of Registry edits.
Within a year, most of those were outdated and after 4 years if I ever met a Windows desktop I was back to being a real noob, but slowly getting more comfortable fixing issues and making Linux work for me.
I liked Gnome2 desktop, but Ubuntu started pushingi towards Unity - and I liked Gnome2 - so I jumped off to the Linux Mint Cinnamon desktop. Now that's a decent option, and kept me happy for 6 years and highlighted many benefits of leaving Ubuntu and Canonical behind.
However, the issues with PPA's bugged me, and so I applaud Mint for working on a Debian version cutting out Ubuntu. Now I find Manjaro sitting a little in the place where Ubuntu was back then - though their unpopular choices are generally not forced on anyone, always very simple to opt out and are actually worth ignoring in favour of some extra stability in the KDE spin.
There are a couple of items, I noticed, in the AUR, which download snap packages - clean them up and install them. So SNAP packaging isn't a problem so much.
But... Canonical working to bully the Linux community into installing SNAP by default over binaries... wow.
Well said! I had to switch to Pop OS because of these issues, but it wasn’t easy, Linux installers all hung - solution was to unplug all USB, SATA and Internet, sounds simple but it was baffling. I don’t think the developers use their own O.S
that reminds me of an oddity many years ago. I had to unplug my HP AIO from my computer, if I actually wanted the computer to boot, then plug it back in after boot completed.
Not to advertise, but ever since Ubuntu started making funky decisions I’ve really been enjoying Fedora, especially now that Gnome’s actually getting good. I even find it a great base for minimal tiling setups
Yeah, I kind of agree because Ubuntu didn't really offer a good firm tangible benefit to the use of snap packages over the normal distributions that have been out there forever. They wanted to differentiate themselves but in doing that they made themselves slower and less appealing. If Firefox takes that long on your system imagine how much longer it takes on an older system?
I briefly used ubuntu desktop.
I switched to arch after like a month.
This video sums up why.
Yes, snaps are slow so, that is not a reason not to use Ubuntu. Simply do not use snaps flatpaks or debs. If you compared the native Firefox in both Fedora and then install it in Ubuntu, like I did myself, you will find they are equally as fast.
Thank you. I have said Ubuntu is no longer an OS I can recommend
I was a long time Ubuntu desktop and server user, from Warty until whenever the hell it was snaps were introduced (I'm doing my best to forget). It was a rocky road at times, but I remained loyal. Snaps where the straw that broke the camel's back and made me abandon Ubuntu entirely. It was absolute monumental stupidity to include snaps on the desktop. They were and still are the worst packaging system known to man. It clearly and unequivocally demonstrated that Canonical did not give a damn about the end user, and as an end user I no longer give a damn about them. I will not touch anything with snaps, and have negative interest in anything Canonical touches. I may still have an Ubuntu cap, but it is only used for gardening, and it makes me want to keep gardening to an absolute minimum so I don't have to wear that f'ing cap.
Maybe you shouldn't touch lightdm then.
@@basilcat3111 Since when does lightdm require snaps?
@@warthog618 Lightdm was created by canonical themselves.
@@basilcat3111 And?
@@warthog618 You said you wanted to avoid anything canonical created.
Snaps are a no go. Defaulting to snaps, and dealing with them overriding my apt installs for snaps is also a no-go.
I started with 6.04 and can say the higher the version grows the longer it takes to get the system running after an upgrade. Version 22.04 has great chances to be my last. I have installed alpine on another disk and test it in case I need it once. Ubuntu is slow, unhandy and unstable on my computer now.
I had a clean install of lubuntu 22.04 and upgrade to 22.10, and it has been simple, snappy and not much to complain about. Is it Gnome people are reacting too or software options in general? I don''t have any fun stuff like touch screens or pads, just basic SSD drive, bluetooth, the old macbook turned over to lubuntu....
@@turtlefromthenorth I need the LTS version Ubuntu, not Lubuntu. We need to work for 5 years without complains as promised for LTS versions. The most disturbing new issue is, that when I want to open a link from an email, I have allways to start firefox first. If not done so firefox opens and gets stuck with an empty new tab. This is trash ! I changed firefox from the crap-package to apt-package, since before nothing worked as expected with firefox. These kind of problems I expect with Windoof, but not from a Linux.
@@fflecker I completely understand about the LTS satability and your preferance for Ubuntu. FF issues like you describe should not be persisting. I often use the irc support channels when I need to sort things out. I think all of the buntu flavours come in LTS releases.
@@turtlefromthenorth satability ? Has this to do with satan ? Such bad it is not, but it decreases.
@@fflecker :- ) what do you mean? I assumed you went for long term support to avoid the upgrades twice a year? To be honest, I haven't had too much problems with my linux installs. I had it for years, then went back to Windows (and the odd mac because everbody else around me use it). I replaced the sdd in a pc spring 20.20 and have used lubuntu since. I just now attempt regular Ubuntu again on a different pc. It all has to work for me to bother with it.
Meh, been hearing this since 11.10. Whenever Canonical does a thing the community cries that the thing is "pointless" and should be immediately scrapped and replaced by a competing Red Hat solution.
On Ubuntu I always replace Snap with Flatpak (or native packages) on Desktop and Docker on servers. Then Ubuntu is perfectly usable.
Does flatpak have better performance than snap?
@@AristoHadisoeganda Flatpak seems to be a bit more performant compared to Snap. Still not as fast as native unsandboxed packages though. However I mainly choose it because its not as centralized as Snap.
@@AristoHadisoeganda yeah I would like to know that as well. I might go back to Debian.
5:40 Good luck removing snap. It reinstalls itself after an update
sudo apt-mark hold snapd, you don't have to worry about it anymore unless Ubuntu really wants to force snaps down peoples throats
Getting rid of Unity was a mistake. I have been taking some courses in PowerShell Core, and some of the labs are in Ubuntu 16.04 (with Unity). Although the virtual machine is pretty slow, the Unity menu and layout was really slick.
As far as I am concerned, Fedora becoming more popular and improving with each version is the way to go. Fedora is going to be king soon. It is superb.
Ubuntu UNITY was attrocious and as Laggy as GNOME 3 was up Ubuntu 22.04 where it is now way more functional. Perhaps getting rid of it was a Mistake... but it needed MUCH improvement which it now Has...have you tried Ubuntu UNITY edition? try it!
Canonical should hire Chris to do a Ubuntu makeover, i would like to see that.
I hope ubuntu can improve on snaps so that they become more usable.
Ubuntu 22.04 looks solid though.
However i'm running opensuse tumbleweed as my daily driver.
You nailed it man, I too hope Canonical starts listening, although I doubt it. Switched to Mint 3 or 4 years ago and never looked back.Thank you!
Would love to see something about switching from Ubuntu to ... something else. Obviously for only those that have a separate /home partition :)
@lbialk by vital you mean visible elements. Hidden elements won't fit all from an old installation to a newer one, moreover if it's a different distro and a different Desktop environment. Separate partition for $HOMEs are OS and programs versions dependent.
Better doing a separate partition for users' visible elements ( only or mostly media and documents, not « all » hidden config's which fit better at the native root of a system inside each /home/$USER ).
I am amazed how slow ubuntu has become ... I got so sick of it, I switched to windows until I could find something faster than good old ubuntu.
I used Kubuntu with backports-landing (outdated KDE is not a good thing, I think) and reinstalling Firefox as normal package (Deb i mean), and that is much better.
Yeah once you remove snaps, Ubuntu is really not that bad. Snaps are a noticeable difference in load times on startup and on app load.
@@ChrisTitusTech That's this 1st thing I do when I install ubuntu on a new machine. Purge snap apps and snapd.
Yeah I think I should purge snapd completely.
I started using linux really for the first time seriously with Ubuntu 8.04.4 Hardy Heron and used many versions of Ubuntu as my daily driver, but have really moved away from it over the past 5 years only occasionally going back to see what's happening. Not for any philosophical reasosn, but for much lighter distros. My main Linux machine is running Mint and most of my others are using a custom setup with Debian and an ICEWM based desktop. I do hope that Ubuntu can course correct and pull people back in, because there's so much good about it. Whenever looking for info in forums it seems that there is still a very active community. Regarding snap, It seems that Canonical has often gone against the grain in developing "their own thing", whether it was Mir, Unity or Snaps, often causing a bit of a rift. Love them or lothe them, they have pushed Linux forward over the years.
I use Arch BTW! Geez. Anyway, Archlinux is just a better desktop system and eventually Fedora Silverblue will superseded it. Ubuntu is meh nowadays, but back in 8.10 and 9.04 days they were really pushing out the latest stuff. They also had the best hardware support back then to.