WRESTLEMANIA 17 REVIEW : I Hate This Show
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When they did the Austin heel turn, I thought "Ok, this is new. Let's see where they go with this." That went nowhere.
Some say this was the greatest Mania of all time with WM19 being the standout mania of all time.
For me, Mania 19 will forever be the best Mania of all time.
19 is on my top five... I was just mad about Kane and RVD not being on the main card at the time.. but other than that I loved wm 19
No not even. Wrestlemania 14. Is.
And that was after the attitude era ended anyway. So that's fair to say. It was great for the mid 2000s yes. Better than wrestlemania 18. Fact. But during the attitude era. Wrestlemania 14 1998. Awesome. It began the attitude era. But looking back. Wrestling was always nonsensical anyway. The storylines was dumb most of the time. Undertaker and Kane in the middle of 1998. Dumb dumb dumb go back and look at it. Wrestling never makes sense. Still watchable back then. But. 1999. Over booked garbage 🗑 at times. Fact.
The only bad thing a bout wm 19 was the taker match. I think Kane should have jumped in and helped taker. Nathan Jones didn’t belong on wm lol
@@thomasrodriguez2183 14 is my personal favorite
I think nostalgia clouds peoples' minds on this one.
Wrestlemania 2000 was the beginning of the end, and WM17 was the definitive end of the sustained quality that *had* been the Attitude Era. Wrestlemania 17, in many ways, is the beginning of Vince McMahon concentrating more on bigger venues, more pomp and explosions... than on actually delivering a quality in-ring product. A policy that unfortunately remains in place to this day.
I watched it at a young age, and have every reason to look back on it fondly for nostalgic purposes... but this Wrestlemania doesn't deserve it. It sucked. I actually walked away from it feeling disappointed at the time. And the long-term effects of how bad it was still linger in the company 13 years later.
Wrestlemania 18 was technically the last Attitude Era Wrestlemania... Deny it all you want but it is. Though you can see it fading away. Especially with Hogans babyface turn. There's no way a yellow and red face Hogan could exist and be cheered during the core of the Attitude Era! Wrestlemania 18 is not Ruthless Aggression. 2003 was the first full year of Ruthless Aggression. 2002 was the transition.
@@draganlojanicich2604 triple h vs undertaker is overrated some say its their best match together hell no Benoit vs Angle is great but some say its their best match together which it sure as hell isn't TLC is the only 5 star match on this card and the main event is so overrated I choose sometimes not to even watch this show because people praise it so much it is far from the best mania main event ever or wwe championship match ever and the finish to it really kills the match for me and others
@Thomas Rodriguez facts
You’re delusional
I agree
I personally couldn't disagree more but still thumbs up for your quality. Ya got me, Schlegal!
The grade of a midterm isn't based on knowledge gained from it that you can use in the future. The grade of an exam is just how well you did on that exam. This wrestlemania is easily one of the 2 best wrestlemanias of all time. Don't give a fuck what happened after it. I care about the show up until it ended and that's it. If there's a wrestlemania I wanna go back to be entertained (which is the point of watching wrestling), I will pick wrestlemania 19 or 17.
flaming fingers off.
I don't think the show is bad, but it is overrated. 19 is the best in my opinion.
Wrestlemania 19 is criminally underrated and is a better mania then 17 in my opinion
sdrawecw09 30 and 33 not to mention 28
Finally someone have sense
So true
This is arguably the Schlegdaddy's best Wrestlemania review and my favorite out of all the Wrestlemania's in his WM review playlist.
+Andrew Harrington when he rants hes very entertaining
Wrestlemania X-Seven isn't perfect, with 3 matches of the 11 being under 1 star (in my opinion) taking the gloss away & a couple of others not delivering. It's still a very great show, for me anyway. 19 beats it though. More matches I thoroughly enjoy from that card. Which I can't wait to see you review.
I never could understand the logic of making Austin heel. The moment it happened, I was going "What ?!?!" This was ridiculous. I could let a few matches here and there but I was banking on the main event to make the show better. Well.....that didn't happen. Add on top of that, you have the crowd cheering this on, which made no sense. ECW & WCW were gone and you have all of their wrestlers make an appearance on this PPV. It's hard to sit through this without having to watch the main event. I believe Austin had said that he wasn't on board with making him heel on his commentary of this match on his DVD, so this was for sure McMahon's idea.
It was actually Austin's and he admitted that he should of stunned Vince in the end and regretted doing the turn but felt like since Mid 1997 that his character finally needed a change since in Early 2001 he was getting stale at that point.
One of the best wrestling topic videos ever :-)
Damn man, you sure went off on this one.....! I feel ya dog....... When I think of this show I just think of the matches and that's it. I NEVER thought of the consequences that were in line because of it (death of WCW and ECW). I just never thought of it that way.......
Of the 3 matches on this show that either happened before or later...
I liked Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle at Royal Rumble 2003 a lot more. This one was relatively too short, but still almost a 5-star match.
My favorite of the three HHH/Undertaker matches is the one at 28. EPIC and BRUTAL.
And this might be a surprise, but my favorite Rock/Austin WM match is from 19. (No interference at all, and Rock finally won).
I'm glad Austin turned heel. He was becoming stale in my opinion. Heel Austin was very hateable & entertaining. It was nice to see Austin do something new. Plus it was nice to see guys like Benoit & Jericho in the spotlight
So you dont understand. Because his heel turn was dumb and stupid. It made no sense at all fact. It was garbage as heel b. Stupid stuff afterwards. It was stale nothing. It still awesome before that. It was mildliged on it. It was meh. So his best times in 1998 1999. But it still was good. His heel turn sucked. WCW ECW was gone. So. It was stupid. The Mcmahos making it about himself. It was a slap in the face of everyone.
Something new Nothing. It was stupid and dumb. It was garbage. Made no sense at all. Absolutely no sense. It was stupid. Boring as heck. He's beating up JR was stupid. The fact Debra wasn't behind him. Made it more dumb. So. You didn't get the point. His heel turn wasn't needed. No. He sucked as a heel. That wasn't good heat. It was this is bullcrap. That's what is was. Fact 100% Absolutely stupid. 💯 things got worse after that. The stupid invasion angle that summer. So. Terrible.
Austin rock classic
Tlc classic
Taker hhh classic
Benoit angle
Vince vs Shane
Gimmick battle royal
Hardcore triple threat
An absolute briiliant card how u can say wmania 3which had one good match Nd one good moment and wrestlemania 14 which had two good matches was a better show is beyond me
whole ppv was great best mania no doubt
Greg O Grady Rock v Austin 2 isn't a classic at all imo.
Stockton sSap was it wasn't. Its stupid. You don't know anything.
The taker match was horrible. So many botches and foam
@@humbertoduran8664 gtfo it's the best match of rock vs stone cold trio
Props to you for speaking your mind, Schleg and not being afraid to go against the grain. An argument can definitely be made that WM 17 marked the beginning of the end of the Attitude Era.
Wrestlemania 14 >>>> and more important than WM 17.
Well Jeff I am also 33 and I understand your point about how Vince no longer had to fight for the fans attention after he killed off ECW and WCW. I thought it was ridiculous watching this ppv when Shane was to had brought some guys with him from WCW and they looked like a handful of nobody's. And though I am a huge Rock fan and I was p.o'd that they beat him like a government mule. I have always looked at this ppv as a standard of what a good ppv should be like. Now as far as the follow through, the company definitely could have done things different but I think they were headed in the right direction at the end of the ppv. Austin was the guy everybody was behind during the monday night war era but with that era coming to a close it was no longer going to be Austin vs McMahon, it was supposed to be WCW vs WWF but Vince didn't lure enough of the top WCW guys to come in to be the opposition, which is why that era sucked ass. If they would have been able to bring in those top WCW guys immediately to be babyfaces the angle would have probably worked and you would not feel so upset about Austin making the heel turn.
That DB turning heel idea gives me nightmares...
Sad thing is I can totally see that happening, it wouldn't surprise me.
Fuck I hate the WWE for killing my love of pro-wrestling. Well, John Cena killed my love for it, it's beyond me what Vince saw in him. Can't bump, can't sell, great eye for derailing up and coming talent.
Matthew Caligari He is popular with the target audience. It's about the money man, believe me the wrestling fan in me don't like Cena he is a waste of time, but he still sells merchandise, he still sells PPV's, he still gets a reaction good or bad and that still means something. Trust me if people stop cheering or booing the guy and not buy his stuff, WWE will have to call an audible. The people have the power they just don't know how to use it.
hhh Vs taker mania matches ranked
1.wm 28
2.wm 27
3.Wm 17
But all were phenomenal
19 is my Mania. Agree 17 ending kill this Mania for me, the hell turn came out so stupid it was in Texas. Steve could have stab The Rock and he would have still gotten cheer.
too each their own. The heel turn was a terrible decision but give Austin credit for even attempting to do it unlike Cena. That being said Wrestlemania X7 is easily the best Mania imo, I respect your opinion though.
I'm not gonna flip out and yell at you for hating it but, This WM was my favorite ever because it was the first PPV I saw live and personally I thought everything was great probably cause at the time I was just in amazement of the show also I think a lot of matches were amazing
I respect your opinion but I think WM17 is the best top to bottom card with excellent wrestling. I think the Austin heel turn was a swerve that didn't need to happen with Vince. I think if Stone Cold became a "colder" character doing everything on his own it would of been better. But many great matches and I thought it was fun from bell to bell. I would love to see a ranking of WrestleMania's in the future maybe after 30.
I just watched Wrestlemania 17 and I can honestly say that it was just as good as I remembered.I don't know if you guys are just agreeing with him just to agree,but it was nowhere near a bad show.Nostalgia tends to cloud judgment,but seeing it again at an age where I can analyze it better reassures me that this was a great event.
Austins heel run in 2001 made him a laughing stock. Singing and playing guitar, doing sing alongs, hugging Vince, different theme music, etc. I fucking hated it.
Rock vs Austin at WM17 is the greatest match in WM history. The heel turn was the most shocking moment ever... start to finish... it was the greatest ever! Your Daniel Bryan-Triple H analogy is so so dumb... it makes no sense
Thank u babe
I'm gonna have to agree to disagree with Schlegdaddy again. Yes the Stone Cold heel turn was stupid, but saying that the entire ppv was ruined by it seems a little farfetched to me. If a show has a bad ending I simply take it for what it is and appreciate that I still got an amazing show for the most part.
Also, the idea of the show being bad because it marks the end of wcw and ecw sounds really unfair to me. At the end of the day those companies dug their own graves, and taking frustrations over it out on WM17 comes across as petty to me. Same goes for the events that happen in the future. Saying "I hate the things that happened after this show" is fair enough but saying "I hate this show BECAUSE of the things that happened after" just seems ridiculous to me.
Don't get me wrong guys, I do respect anyone that doesn't like this show. It's just that I find some of their excuses and reasons to be really bizarre.
Yes you are right I mean its not the best looking back but as a kid was mental and we didn't see it in an adult frame of mind maybe a kid/ teen frame of mind. I still think the wrestling and action was fucking great as a kid and even looking back is great. The rest of the show from top to bottom was great, was it perfect Hell No but still fun to watch.
You are 100 percent right saying that I made a comment on the video saying the excact same thing WCW & ECW fuck themselves over did Vince or WWE do it nope. Yes it was the end of a great Era in wrestling but putting all the blame on Vince & WWE is silly. I don't think I can respect someone for not liking this show its a great show and like you said why would you respect someone like this who says he hates the show because of the main event?
MrLucidLJ Big thanks.
CaptainMonotone448
The pleasure is all mine thanks for the good comment.
I totally agree
Saying WrestleMania 17 sucked because Stone Cold turned heel in the end is just stupid. I agree with everything you said.
I love this vid, I keep coming back to it because I thought I was the only one.
The Rock should have won that match, he was the number 1 star in that company at that time so it was only right to have The Rock win.
He was also leaving to film a movie. So looking back on it now Rock winning made no sense and turning Austin heel made no sense. Especially with Rock gone, and Austin heel they had no top baby faces.
James Forcum
I believe they made Austin heel because they were setting up for the invasion angle but it failed because the didn't get any of the top guys from WCW signed. If that would have happened Austin turning heel and Rock taking time off for movies would have created the perfect opening.
agreed, he had the momentum of his life after 1999/2000. The Rock should have won that match.
J Crash at that point actually I don't think so. Rock was certainly just at his level by that point though Austin wining was the right choice since rock was leaving
J Crash honestly, Austin lost Alot of momentum after Rikishi "did it for da Rock". They had to take because of his neck issues and he wasn't the top dog he was before. If you pop in WWF No Mercy on Nintendo 64 without editing it, the Rock is the first character on the select screen. Austin is right next to him. In 2002, the current biggest star faced nostalgia's biggest star at WrestleMania. The Rock vs. Hulk Hogan and I agree with that decision rather than Hogan vs. Austin. I don't Hogan vs. Austin would've been anywhere near as classic what we got with Hogan vs. Rock.
I was at Wrestlemania 17 and while good, I feel it's overrated. 19 and 24 were better imo.
Liar
I agree with 19 not 24 it was just okay
21, 22, 23, 31 Are so underrated
@@Super122291 you would like to know wouldn't you
nihilist 22 someone’s jealous 👀
In his autobiography The Stone Cold Truth Austin says he wished they'd had it so that he just stunned Vince after refusing to share a beer with him. But yeah it made no sense. In storyline why would Stone Cold Steve Austin the man who had rebelled against the control freak boss Vince's character was from the time Austin debuted in the company ally himself with the evil owner and why would he need Vince's help to beat The Rock in a No Disqualification match? They tried to justify it by saying that Austin was so desperate to win the title and so obsessed with winning it that he was willing to work with the man he hated most to get it. Well if that was the case since it was a No Disqualification match he should have just beat the shit out of The Rock with any weapon he could get his hands on. He didn't need Vince's help to do that. He could have done it himself. So Austin allied with McMahon was just a "shocking swerve" that was shocking for the sake of being shocking despite making no sense. I liked the whole psychotic heel Austin thing but not him working with Vince and teaming with HHH as the Two Man Power Trip. But by far the most nonsensical part was him joining The Alliance in the Invasion Angle. Why would Austin join a group where one of the companies in it was WCW the same place that had told him he was unmarketable just because he wore black trunks and black boots and that he would never get anywhere in wrestling?
nah The Rock should've gone over. Rock > Austin.
Looking back, this WrestleMania show has become highly overrated. It had some really good moments and some good matches, but overall, it just wasn't as great as most people believe it to be. An average event, at best.
Fuck you Hipster
Because people are stupid and don't understand it.
I'm 22 and The Ruthless Aggression was far better for me stared watching WWF/E when I was 6.
WrestleMania 28>WrestleMania 17!
FUCK YOU. THAT IS ALL...
SayberV1 Ummm OK? so what are you like nine or just stupid? you don't have the intelligence to actually argue my point, rather you just say "FUCK YOU" like some kid in grade school? wow....good luck in life buddy.
Ryan Mcsween It's called trolling you and being a 'Mark' by using flaming capital letters to get at you for your opinion.
SayberV1 or not really you just think that's a stupid thing to say and dont feel like writing 3 paragraphs to explain why lol
Jesse Pinkmen I am 'Marcus Smark' and you do not have a right to your own opinion, you MUST worship Wrestlemania 17 by watching it atleast twice a day and bask in it's 5* PPV classic glory!!!!!!!
Sadly for the Toothless Agression Era and the PG Era too, WM X-seven and 2001 drove away so much Wrestling Fans Worldwide, that a lot of them did not saw when the WWF/E was doing a lot better in that period from 2002 - 2004. Thank God for Hogan, Mr.Perfect, Lesnar, Batista etc. coming back or in, the old and young Fans who stayed after this had fresh air to breathe! WM X8 was a good example even the Structure was not that good as here.
Yeah, WM17 is pretty overrated, and I consider WM19 as the true end of the Attitude Era.
WWE fan logic:
Wrestlemania 2000: “OMG! Vince McMahon helped screw the Rock out of the WWE championship. This is the one of the worst endings to a Wrestlemania ever!”
Wrestlemania 17: “OMG! Vince McMahon helped screw the Rock out of the WWE championship. This is the one of the greatest endings to a Wrestlemania ever!”
Meatpotato69 I’m with Schlegdaddy in that I absolutely hated the main event. Being a Houstonian and a Stone Cold fan in the audience at this ppv was like seeing a local sports team win the national championships and then cuss out their fans immediately after
@@tinotica that’s a solid way of putting it. I think 17 gets propped by some of its great matches like TLC, angle Benoit and taker HHH. The show without those three leaves you feeling a little bummed because you know it’s the end of an era, and not a storybook ending but kind of a middle finger.
@@holup2691 an abrupt ending that nobody wanted; similar to how WCWs last night as a company switched over to the WWE plugging Shane and Vince’s match at Wrestlemania. Not even a proper sendoff
@@tinotica This is why historical context is important. There are so many examples of wrestling fans ignoring the overall impact of a PPV just for the in ring action, yet the PPV inevitably ended being nothing more than horrible months of nonsense storylines and stupid shit.
Wrestlemania 17 is an example of that and a slap in the face to those who gave a shit.
@@holup2691 OMG Thank you! For the longest time I thought I was the only one who saw it that way. I remember being in the crowd that night and being excited like everybody else that Stone Cold won because everybody that night wanted their fellow Texan to be victorious. Nobody knew Austin turned that night since we can’t hear the announcers. When he shook Vince’s hand, it was like telling someone after they just ate the greatest meal of their lives “I hope you don’t mind but I think I saw some homeless guy scratching his balls over it.”
I did watch WM17 back then and yes Austin turning heel was not a good idea. but if Im gonna go and watch this show 20 years later and I found myself enjoying certain matches on that show Im not gonna go and say "this match is great. but because Austin turned heel and because of the other crap that happened that year I dont like this match anymore and I dont like this show anymore" quite frankly I think its very stupid to think like that. by that logic I could hate almost every WM that I watched live since I started watching WWE.
I actually did feel like the Austin turn was an odd way to end the show. Felt almost like a let down. But Austin played a pretty good heel for what he had(the whole thing was stupid) but he did a good job for what it was
As for signifying the end of ECW and WCW I completely 100% disagree. ECW pretty much died before WWF had a chance to bury them. By 2000 so many stars left and the shows just felt kind of sad. The shows weren't terrible but it was a shell of it's former self. As for WCW they buried themselves by being a huge bowl of suck. By 1999 WCW just got lame and pathetic and it was a terrible product to watch. Ric Flair said it best, "WCW should have died a year before it did." However what it really did was signify the end of a good era in WWF. WWF in 2001 was pretty shitty overall.
If the main event didn't end like that, I would love this ppv more. When I grade a match, I look at it from promo package all the way to its lasting impact. Everything about Austin/Rock was great UNTIL Vince came out-along with everything that came after it. It's not the perfect match that it should've been because of that reason. Austin/Hart @WM 13 IMO is the perfect wrestling program/match (from feud to personalities to the reasoning for the feud to promo to the entrances to the match type making sense to the opening promo package to the entrances to the physicality to the psychology to the perfect double turn to even Shamrock playing his role & playing himself to perfection to Austin skyrocketing afterwards & Bret having his best run as an all-around performer to date).
Hey Schlegaddy, fantastic review as always! Absolutely spot on in regards to PPV. Just one bit of constructive criticism, if you don't mind me saying, is to please don't insult your audience. Granted, there are a fair bit of "keyboard warriors" (perhaps more so than we'd care to admit) but please don't pair your overall audience with those than constantly breath negative opinions. That being said, I've been a fan since day one and I continue to look forward to future posts :)
I loved the Austin heel turn because it opened up a lot things for the other wrestlers to step up their game and get a little shine: Y2J, Kurt Angle, HHH, The Rock, Chris Benoit, RVD, Hardy Boyz. Now, I was not really a fan of Stone Cold, but with the heel turn I realized we were looking at a true legend in the sport. Austin made everyone look good when he was in heel form even the commentators. And everyone says the attitude era died this night, but for me the attitude era died the night the invasion angle was over.
It's interesting in my opinion thought at that time in 2001 the heel turn made since, it was a great way to try something new and if you fast forward in time this would have been an intelligent thing to if you would have fully turned him face for the invasion angle, which would have worked if Sting,Goldberg, Kevin Nash,and Scott Steiner would have joined the alliance, but since it didn't happen, i agree that the heel turn was questionable, however i still loved WM 17 despite the heel turn.
I can understand your perspective of professional wrestling. But for those like me who never grew up in the early 80's and only got to watch the Attitude era, I am proud to watch professional wrestling in the late 90's and 2000's.
Another thing stupid I forgot to add in my previous comment about Austin turning heel. It wouldn't of been as bad if Rock would of stuck around. But he left to go film a movie. And there was no baby faces to really get behind after Austin turned heel.
Austin joining Vince made sense. In storyline terms, Austin had been injured for a year and upon his return, Rock had surpassed him in the ring and in merchandise sales. After Austin's loss to HHH at No Way Out, it was clear Austin wasn't the ass kicking machine he used to be. The only thing he could do to ensure he stayed on top was to sell his soul to the owner. If the Austin vs McMahon rivalry was ever made into a book or film, then Wrestlemania 17 would be the perfect ending. It's just too bad the rest of the year sucked, but the heel turn did have SOME merit to it.
Also, if you still think WM3 drew 93000 fans, you're incredibly naive.
Oh yeah. I totally agree with you. WrestleMania 17 sucked because Austin turned heel in the end. Because that's a perfect reason to hate a show. And you know what? I thought WrestleMania 19 sucked because Triple H did not put over Booker T. I thought Summerslam 2010 sucked because Cena didn't put over the Nexus. Fuck everything else. As long as one thing doesn't go my way everything else sucks. Good video SchlegDaddy. You truly outdone yourself lol.
+RedWolf316 Summerslam 2010 was shit all around, though the mane event certainly was the biggest contributor.
*****
That's because the main event was so shitty.
*****
I remember Shames and Orton for the WWE title, the 7 on 7 tag and Kane vs Rey for the WHC, that's it. Also I'd be careful about how you take about Mark Henry like that. Smokey might come back to life and find you.......I still have nightmares.
The thing is, Austin completely agrees with him. Austin said that turning heel was the worst thing he could've done, and said that while drinking beer with vince he should've stunned him. For all those people who are upset by his opinion, you don't have to agree with him, but just hear him out. Unlike most, he backs it up very effectively.
XD Here's the thing, Jeff, you dubbed the video as a WRESTLEMANIA REVIEW, not a "What happened in 2001 in the WWF" review. So going by this, you're technically indicating that all judgment would be on what happened at the WrestleMania itself, not the aftermath (no matter how shitty you thought it might have been). I know how it's challenging to go back and view this show without having a biased opinion due to the nostalgic feels, but I view WM17 based on what happened on the night of because and, lets be honest, IF done right, would some people be bashing the Austin heel turn as much as they do now? REALLY think about that. But that aside, it was a solid Mania, but that doesn't mean that it was perfect.
Bad ending doesn't ruin the entire show.
KalvinEllis yes it does. you don't know shit about wresting. fuck you idiot. stone cold turning heel was stupid and ridiculous.
I think your mom is coming down the stairs with your dinner. Say hi to her from me.
KalvinEllis shut the fuck up.
I rest my case. Loser.
KalvinEllis fuck you you don't know shit about wresting.
When you look at the grand scheme of things this makes you look a little crazy your entitled to your opinions and that's fine but this was a set up to show that Austin was loosing his mind for the gold my god that's storytelling at its best especially seeing as how he went crazy on the rock with that chair did you not hear his words on smack down "rock I need to beat you " with a cold stare In his eyes
Now if you didn't like it fine you don't have to but did it make sence hell yeah people just don't like the ending but when you go back it shows you just how far Austin was willing to go the after math was great to me bur once again that's me I can see why you don't like it
what irks me is how he makes it seem like his opinion of the show matters most of all. Listen to his line of "don't listen to Meltzer or Alvarez about star ratings", what is the purpose of that line outside of "those guys don't know what they are talking about, I'm the one who knows what's up." It's ok to not like Austin turning heel (personally, as a piece of fantastic storytelling, I love it.....from a business perspective, it's questionable) but to say that one moment and an angle that takes place three months after the show ruins EVERYTHING about this show is asinine.
Jared Doucet exactly!!!!
He lost me when he started speaking on how this match didn't really pan out with future events when in reality it did the invasion angle , Austin teaming with McMahon all of this was to show how bad Austin wanted the belt
Well it was dumb to turn him heel in his hometown, how did they expect him to get the proper heat?
***** Best wrestling show to date? This is far from it, Rock should have went over cause he never successfully defended the belt at a Wrestlemania, that's discraceful.
A better solution from me, have Rock retain then the next night on Raw have Austin turn heel on him. I still wouldn't have agreed with the heel turn but this would have at least been better imo.
The quality of the show was excellent, however at the same time this show started the decline of the WWE and they have never recovered from it. There's a reason why the WWE tries to mask the Austin heel turn. It was a good idea in theory, but that's not what the people wanted to see and the heel turn killed the character.
+eagleslfootball Well....too some extent I agree.
The rest of 2001 was pretty shit honestly. 2002 was great all around especially with Lesnar, the Smackdown 6, HBK returning and the Rock for the first half of the year.
2003 was bad outside of WM19.
2004 was amazing up until Eddie and Benoit lost their titles.
2005 was great......sometimes, it ranged in quality.
2006 onwards in my opinion is the true decline, with Cena and Orton headlined every PPV.
I find it funny how some people say that WrestleMania XXX is the worst Mania of all time because Taker lost yet Austin turning heel at Mania X-Seven didn't make it the worst Mania of all time.
Linda McMahon has no business being in front of TV cameras lol
Oh shit you just gave away there surprise heel turn at the end with Daniel Bryan lol
My beef with Austin's heel turn, the little I saw of it because of RAW moving to TNN/Spike, all it did was make him meaner to babyfaces and temporarily a suck up to Vinnie Mac. The Two-man power trip felt like Breakfast Club booking.
Really my gripe is his heel turn didn't change Austin at all in my eyes. It also didn't contribute much...unless some IWC members liked The Invasion Angle.
As for what it represented emotionally, like I said, missed most of it and only saw parts.
That main event was kick ass except for the heel turn💯
Mania 17 was my favorite cuz it gave the viewer their money's worth for the PPV/DVD/WWE Network Monthly subscription. The entire card had very good matches, the commentary was nice, it had a good mix of wrestling and other forms of entertainment, it was just a very good show. But I do agree that Austin's bad turn wasn't a good idea, but The Rock was over as well. Nothing could have been done. Vince vs Shane was overbooked, but that was alright cuz there was soooo much emotional investment in the storyline and fans weren't sick of the McMahons yet (at least I wasn't anyways).
Your opinions on this show can also be said for the year 2001 in general for WWE: Good match quality, HORRIBLE usage of talent.
Its all in how one watches PPVs. I watch strictly for the match quality, of which Mania 17 did not disappoint.
Absolute hipster behaviour. I 'hate' this show. Any wrestling fan wouldn't 'hate' this show, even if it isn't their favourite it's certainly not a disgrace. It's the greatest WM of them all imo, but clearly isn't in yours, but if you're educated enough don't say you 'hate' it because there's far too much at stake on that card to suggest that the better matches were played out to perfection. If you 'hate' it because you don't feel it warrants the legacy that the fans have given it then say you hate that, not the event itself. You've obviously stated you 'hate' it to get more clicks and views and that's fine, but be clear about what you mean.
I hate the main event.
+Billy Barnett Me too
You don't understand. So shut up. Wrestlemania 17 was trash. So get over it. You don't understand about wrestling. You don't see of why it was stupid. So shut up. You smarks are so clueless and freaking pathetic. Get out of here. WM17 was retarded. Period.
I respect your opinion but I disagree WM 17 is one of the greatest Mania of all time and this was the end of the attitude era the rest of 01 and the beginning of 02 was the wwe era were they had the major 2 companies and owned all of mainstream pro wrestling until the RA era (my favorite era btw) came into play and TNA came out.
The ruthless aggression era is my favorite era
+Da'Shaun Stazzola I'd say the two best years of wrestling for me are.
1997 (Attitude Era)
2002 (Ruthless Aggression)
For me its 2003 and 2006/7 because TNA was good and the WWE was still great
I have to say even though this show is in my personal top 5 ppv list (not number one but it's in there), you make a lot of valid points that have to agree with. If you ask me, Summerslam 2002 was the best ppv of all time. Anyways great video like always. Really enjoyed it
Wrestlemania 19 & Wrestlemania 28 > Wrestlemania 17
Are you stupid? 25-29 sucked.
+big_AWESOME3 ITS CALLED AN OPINION JACK ASS
big_AWESOME3 F U, WM 28 is better than most Manias.
+big_AWESOME3 Wrestlemania 28 was really good.
big_AWESOME3 Wrestlemania 26 was good as well
I remember watching it live and being so dejected i was an Austin fan and hated the Rock but after the turn mid match i wanted Rock to win so much. After the match i wanted so bad for Austin to stun McMahon. There is a brief moment where he looked like he would and apparently Austin had the authority to do so and stay face after the match.
WM 31 > WM 17
no
This dude does not hate wrestlemania 17 he probably had to work on that day and Couldn't go and it upset him
If Austin wouldn't of turned heel, I would think this ppv was probably the greatest WrestleMania of all time. But that was just stupid and ruined Steve Austin forever.
How the fuck did it ruin Austin forever? Austin was ruined once his feud w. Vince ended mid 99, by then he lost a lot of steam and had his top spot taken by Rock. Fact is WWE was planning to turn Austin heel late 99 and put over Rock at WM 16 but the pussy left. Austin himself said he turned heel in 01 bc he felt stale and wanted to change his character.
VONAFIDE
Austin got hurt in 97 yet he managed to wrestle 2 more fuckin years idiot. By late 99 the plans were for Austin to turn heel and put over Rock at WM 16 then and only then did he feel like he needed surgery, every1 knows had he been booked to win another title he wouldve stuck around. Its also funny how Austin lost to every1 but Rock from 96-02, everytime it was proposed he flat out refused out of jealousy. Austin buried every1 to get himself over while Rock never cared about bookin moron, thats why Austin was booked better. Funny thing is Rock still became a much bigger star and draw w/o all the political bs from Austin
I hear this complaint a lot these days with people saying the IWC whines when someone Daniel Bryan doesn't win on a ppv they hate it even tho the rest of the show was good.
Josh Perkins I never said the show was bad. I said turning Austin heel was stupid. The show was good as a whole, the ending was just dumb. If anything Austin should of stunned McMahon.
@@TheGreatOneIVisGod No he didn't. Because at the time Austin was still over. So what if rock was more over. But stone cold was still getting cheered too. So.
Truly great matches. Hard-core match, TLC 2, Taker vs Triple H, Vince vs Shane, Rock vs Austin II. Many rank WM 19 just as high, but imo that was too bottom heavy in terms of last 5 matches shining. The matches at wm 17 were better spread imo.
Some of the early matches of 17 were rough too right to censor vs tazz and the apa lol
Personally when I go back watching older shows I judge them from a stand alone one night only standpoint and not from historical significance but I do still hate the Stone Cold heel turn looking back on it as he is my all time hero
How anyone can say WM17 sucked, you’re insane.
The heel turn ruined it, period
@@marcel0233The heel turn ruined the whole show? Give me a break
@@marcel0233 I get judging a match off the finish but judging A WHOLE SHOW because of the finish in the main event is retarded I'm sorry
@@haadtheevision Okey i agree there, the show in general had great matches but still the ending was retarded
@@marcel0233agreed
Jeff, thank you so much for having the courage to go against popular opinion with your honest rant about wrestlemania 17. I agree with everything you said. For many, professional wrestling officially died in 2001. When WCW and ECW went out of business, the majority of their fans did not switch over to the WWF. They just stopped watching wrestling altogether. Then, at the end of Wrestlemania 17, you had the worst heel turn in the history of professional wrestling. It made millions of fans sick to their stomachs seeing Steve Austin shaking Vince Mchahon's hand. That was the one thing that nobody wanted to see. Because of that disgusting heel turn, the wwf lost millions of wrestling fans that never came back. So, you combine all of those negative elements and Wrestlemania 17 is the most destructive Wrestlemania in the history of the industry. As far as match quality of the event itself, Jeff explained that this was not the flawless top-to-bottom card that so many around the internet have falsely claimed. The truth is that there were some bad matches and overrated matches on this card. This was not the best wrestlemania in terms of ring quality. It was good but not the best. Historically, it may be the worst in terms of what led up to it beforehand (the death of WCW and ECW with Vince now having a monopoly on the industry with no competition) and it's aftermath (The worst heel turn ever and the completely botched invasion angle). As Jeff said, when rating a show, those factors matter.
To continue to elaborate why Wrestlemania 17 is the most overrated Wtestlemania of all time, I will now talk specifically about the matches. The Right To Censor match was not good, The Chyna squash for the women's title was a bad match. The Eddie Guerrero match was just okay (he would have much better Wrestlemania matches at both 19 and 20). The Undertaker-HHH match was good but not great (they would have much better matches against each other at Wrestlemanias 27 and 28). Vince McMahon and his son Shane were having an excellent street fight until Stephanie, Trish, and Linda came out and it turned into an entire McMahon family soap opera which brought the match quality down the rest of the way (Vince would have a much better street fight with Hulk Hogan at Wrestkemania 19). In the Main event, Steve Austin and The Rock were having an outstanding 4 to 5 star match until Vince McMahon showed up at ringside. Afterwards, the last few minutes were terrible resulting in one of the worst finishes and the worst heel turn in wrestlemania history that left a bad taste in everyone's mouths (it is totally unacceptable to end your biggest show of the year on such a downer). From these flaws that I just explained in detail, I think it's ridiculous how all these wrestling reviewers throughout the internet put this wrestlemania on such a pedestal as being head shoulders above all the other wrestlemanias. It is not. It is extremely overrated.
So Hogan joining NWO and turning heel is legendary, but Austin turning heel and joining Vince is stupid. Yet Cena turning heel would be great right?
Thats the logic of the fans though. Hogan was overdue a heel turn and same with Cena really over due it. Hogan could have turned in 1992/1993 because he was getting a lot of boos and then when he went to WCW in 1994-1996 it was pretty much the same. I think fans don't like Austins maybe because it was too early, he was still shit hot in 2001 maybe not as much as 1997-1999 but still the main man even though Rock could be argued 1 at this point or perhaps Triple H, I think if Austin stayed around till 2005 maybe they could have turned him heel 2003 but defo seemed premature.
The difference is Austin didn't need to turn heel, Hogan did. Hogan was getting booed at that point in 96, Austin was still over as hell, not as over as he was before his neck surgery. But him turning heel was flat out stupid.
He was getting booed in 1992 for God sakes and in some places more. Your right he didn't need to turn heel but HE chose to and it didn't work as well as it should have because he was still massive over at the time. If he had been with the wrestling business longer a few years later I think fans wouldn't have mind it, but to shit on the event after a classic match and a mental heel turn is fucking ignorant and stupid. The match was an epic clash between 2 heavyweights I think Rock probably should have gone over because at the time you can argue was more over then Austin.
MrLucidLJ
You are right about Hogan, that is a major reason why the Ultimate Warrior was able to rise to the top so fast, the fans were ready to cheer for a new top guy. And after the initial new car smell wore off in WCW the same could be said there as well.
MindOfReese25 Stone Cold should have been a vicious heel like he was in 96.
WrestleMania 17 was the first one I watched live. At the time, I was 13 years old, but I had watched wrestling for 4 years already. I loved WWF, WCW, and ECW. I agree that this show does indeed signal the death of WCW and ECW and I agree that Austin turning heel that way was one of the dumbest things that Vince ever did. However, I still enjoy watching this show. Undertaker vs. Triple H was a great match, as was the TLC match. This used to be my favorite WrestleMania ever. But as I have gotten older, it isn't anymore. I still enjoy watching it, but I think that WrestleMania 18, 21, 22, and 24 were all better shows from top to bottom.
You once said in a prior video that it was the guaranteed contracts and the bad booking choices that killed WCW. It was Paul Heyman's bad business management killed ECW any one who was there said so. That said I agree about the heel turn but for different reasons.
I personally have no problem w/ this WM, but here's the thing:
For a lot of people, the Attitude Era was one of the best eras in wrestling. It's the time period that got them watching WWF/E in the first place. Now, by a lot of people, this show is considered as the end of the AE. So, for an era you truly love, why would you like the fact that this show represents? And that's why it's one of the reasons why I don't particularly go back and watch this show. Just how I feel.
Austin and rock at 15 was a much better match overall in my opinion and the best work those 2 ever did together. The heel turn at 17 was a bad idea. Poorly timed and poorly executed. And yes.....it kinda ruins the ppv as a whole. Which is a shame because it did have some great and memorable moments
Even WWE doesn't like Mania 17 that give it the Benoit treatment lol
Review the show, not the aftermath. This isn't even my favorite manias and I think it's a little over rated but its still a good show and one of the best. The matches were good. They're was something for everyone and even tho it completely back fired at least they tried something new and unpredictable. Just because this show hurt the wrestling business as a whole doesn't take away that this was a very entertaining show.
I have to disagree with you on this one because I think your judgement is so very clouded. I'm 27, not a 17 year old without an identity of things pre-attitude era. Yes, WCW and ECW were gone, and you're also correct that the invasion angle was just not done right at all. Valid points, but they are not what Wrestlemania X7 was all about. Maybe instead of whining about how Vince buried the other companies, look at it as the BEST promoter won, and this show was Vince celebrating his rightful victory with a MEGA MAIN EVENT of HIS GUYS. This is the best of the three Rock vs Austin Mania matches, and I'll tell you why. Screw buy rates, PPV numbers, or in your own words, even match quality isn't everything. It was all about the draw. There was a feeling building into this match that many can remember. A feeling bigger than Austin vs Michaels, because lets be honest, without Tyson, that matchup didn't have the draw that Rock vs Austin did, no disrespect to HBK, just not even close. A feeling similar to the babyface battle of Hogan Warrior at 6, but it felt BIGGER. Not since Mania 3, had the main event felt so electric going into it. Thats why this PPV is so great, the hype was simply, magic. Remember the tension every week on raw? Both sneaking up doing each others finishers to one another, all while sarcastically and strategically inserting beer cans in the mix, because it was just so appropriate. The sit down interview between Rock and Austin with Jim Ross. And that promo package, god damn. I've never been more hyped for a match, so well produced with that Limp Bizkit song. Shit, I hate Limp Bizkit, but I love that song, because of what it did for this PPV lol. The fact of the matter is you CANNOT compare Austin turning heel, to that of Daniel Bryan turning heel at Mania. Why? It's not the same! Bryan has already been a heel character before, also he's a fairly new babyface guy maybe a year now? But Bryan is JUST starting to get REAL number one babyface power. Austin started his babyface turn with Bret at Mania 13 back in early 1997. FOUR YEARS A BABYFACE! It was 2001! HHH, HBK, Taker, and even Rock had by this point shown how great they could be in WWF as both baby faces and heels. People won't stop bitching about how Cena is still a face. But why couldn't Austin turn heel? Because lets be honest, this angle was the only way you were gonna get the people to be pissed at Stone Cold, because we all loved him. And the experiment worked, they all hated heel Austin. It was time to change things up. Who cares if he broke your heart, or if he went against everything he stood for, it was classic. How come everyone can all say in unison Hulk Hogan turning heel with NWO was so epic and beloved, but people can't grasp the concept of Austin, turning heel as well. Hogan turned his back on the fans, the vitamins, the prayers, and it was a classic move that made sense. DON'T TRUST ANYONE! A vintage stone cold line from the beginning, and by Mania 17, that was oh so telling. The truth is NO ONE was on the level of Austin and Rock in 2001. You couldn't have that much star power all invested in your babyfaces, and evening up the scale here made sense. Not Taker, or Angle, Benoit, HHH, No one measured up. Turning Austin heel was the RIGHT move. Turning Rock heel? Would've been a complete re hash of their storyline going 2 years earlier at 15. I love you man, you are the king of IWC, and I respect your opinion, but lets call a spade a spade here. There is clear bias and always will be on your end from the Hogan era, and if anyone is gonna tell you this PPV is better than your coveted Mania 3, you're gonna bury it brother. Flaming fingers of truth.
I agree with more everything, I always found this wrestlemania very very overrated, esp with the mainevent, it simply doesn't make, Vince ego was all over it, Steve Austin wanted to turn heel here and I don't know why, he does regret it and says he should've stunned him. However this show is still pretty damn good, I wouldn't say it the greatest wrestlemania ever but I do say its top 5. I say 3,14,19, and maybe 18 aswell as 20 are a bit better. but like you said Vince does what he wants and we still pile in by the thousands, maybe its because now we don't have anywhere else to go
This is one of the few videos of yours that I disagree with in almost its entirety
thank you I've always always hated this show even though you had so many good things like Beniot and Angle and TLC 2 Rock vs Austin wasn't good no matter what people say it was just that bad Gimmick battle royal is forgettable Vince vs Shane was ok could' have been better and one of my favorite matches on is Taker vs HHH I've never understood why WWE swept this match under the rug that's why WM 17 sucks
At the time the heel turn itself was awesome and a shocking moment; his character was getting stale. Even the two-man power trip was a good idea when it first happened the next night. It was the follow-up that sucked. Plus Rock went off to Hollywood so him beating Austin would not have made sense.
I'm 33 too Schlegdaddy. I remember how amazing it used to be having WWF, WCW and ECW. Part of the fun was watching to see who would jump ship to another promotion. You don't get that excitement or shock watching wrestling today.
18:10-18:19
Exactly! WWE and Vince can now safely take the Michael Bay approach and say "let them hate all they want to; they'll watch the shows anyway"!
You know, as much as I do disagree with his opinion(although the heel turn was stupid) he kind of got a point about the "if this was made now a days" argument. If the WWE did the same stuff they did in WrestleMania 17 in a recent WrestleMania people will get angry, very angry. I like WM17 but I feel like it shouldn't get a free pass with the decisions the WWE makes in this WrestleMania. In my opinion this Mania is great but not my favorite.
My take with Austin turning heel and aligning himself with Vince, with the InVasion angle looming in the distance, I think Vince was just getting Austin on his side early to be the face of the WWF for that storyline. I think Vince thought that with the WCW/ECW Alliance being the heel invaders, WWF and Austin would automatically be viewed face.
Don't know if you've already done so, Shlegdaddy, but I'd love to see you do a retrospective on the InVasion angle.
How you can label this Mania with the word "Hate" is inconceivable.
I've always thought that WrestleMania 14 was the greatest WrestleMania of all time. You set up the whole Austin/McMahon angle, Kane/Undertaker, Farooq/Rock angle, Owen Hart's feud with Triple H and later joining The Nation. Austin would later be the top draw in the company.
16:00 - okay you have made me really scared that this might happen.
In my opinion it is one of the top three Wrestlemania in terms of In Ring Qualify with WM 14 and WM 19.
I absolutley agree with what you said about what this event did to Proffesional Wrestling and this is the reason that in my rank it is in the top 10 but not in the top 5 {with the likes of 18 & 21 & 20 & 6 & 7 but not with the group of 3 & 10 & 12 & 14 & 19}.
The Austin vs Rock match itself was great but the ending with him getting help from Vince to win was shit I'll give you that but that doesn't make the whole show shit. The only bad parts for me were the Gimmick Battle Royal which was just a nostalgia act with some of the older guys having short struggles with each other before being thrown out of the ring was crap, Tazz and the APA vs the RTC was pretty pointless, Chyna vs Ivory for the women's title was a bit too short and of course the Austin vs Rock ending was crap but overall the show was good IMO.
What surrounds the PPV doesn't always bother me too much because my mind set tends to be "That probably was going to happen anyway" and "But that hasn't happened yet". There are a few times when surrounding events of the PPV do make the event worse for me. The BIG ONE for me is Wrestlemania 20.
Why don't you like 20? You have a good mentality because it would have happened by 2002 or 2003 if Austin was around. So your right.
Because it's kind of hard to feel the sense of accomplishment in the two main events when you know both champions died shortly afterwards, and one of them became a murderer.
Well you can't look back at a show and hate it or dislike it for that. What ever age you were I bet you marked out for Benoit winning the title and Eddie retaining right?
Keep in mind, I couldn't watch PPVs at the time. (No way my parents were going to pay for that) So much of my opinion is based on what I saw on Smackdown. (Didn't have cable either) So I didn't get to watch Wrestlemania 20 matches until much later. No Way Out 2004 is an event that's aged much better to me. I'd actually be interested in watching a Shlegdaddy review of that.
Carlitonsp1 Well what were PPV prices like back then surely they would shell out for the big show of the year. Kind of sucks that you weren't able to at least get that show dude.
I would have to disagree with your stance on WM17. You're reviewing this show in a hindsight perspective and you're meshing the latter part of 2001 with a show that has nothing to do with it. WM17 has nothing to do with the Invasion angle. We didn't know the WWE would fall off the horse in months to come at the time of WM17. And Steve Austin's WM17 heel turn was brilliant to me. I was ten years old at the time and even as a kid I loved it. Steve Austin's SECOND heel turn when he joined the Alliance is what hurt the product. People get those two Austin heel turns mixed up. And again, WM17 has nothing to do with the Invasion Era. WM17 was on April 1st, 2001. The Invasion PPV was on July 22nd 2001. The Invasion didn't officially start until late June or early July. So by those facts you can see that WM17 and the Invasion Era have nothing to do with each other.
Do you own the Wrestlemania anthology or where do you watch all the Wrestlemanias?
you hate this show because you don't actually like anything, this is the best PPV of all time and you are doing this just to be controversial. the TLC match, the tag team division was never this over, not before or since, not even randy savage and hulk hogan were as over as the TLC matches and their spin offs, with this match being one of the most memorable matches ever, the edge spear to jeff hardy, matt and bubba falling through the tables, jeff hardy swanton on rhyno, these spots are second only to mick foley vs undertaker in hell in a cell, but this match was actulay good, not just a murder mick foley match 10000000/10 the best match ever in the history of the company, even WWE says so on their website. Rock vs Austin with austin heel turn, holy fucking shit nobody saw that coming and the match was 11/10, probably austins best match of all time and definitely the rocks best match of all time. Angle vs Beniot, this was amazing to watch, a fucking clinic of technical wrestling ability and a solid 10/10 match. undertaker vs triple h was fucking amazing, during H's prime and when undertaker could still bump like a boss. you are an idoit for not liking this, literally the only thing that let the PPV down was the mcmahon story line, which was over and down with fast. you are litterally the only person who does not like this show
+Kristof's Konnection SPOTS ARE NOT THE ONLY THING THAT MAKE A MATCH GOOD and even then otrs said that it was a great match
what the fuck are you talking about?
+Kristof's Konnection do you not understand english
otrs ???? what the fuck kind of spelling mistake is that, also spot definetly make a good match, what do you remember more? the time bret hart worked the leg of steve austin, or the time edge speared jeff hardy of a ladder while he was holding the belt
i bet you anything you cant name 3 other matches on those cards with out having to look them up, i recently watched all the wrestlemanias and i could only tell you the main events on 9 and 3, but wrestle mania i could tell you every match and who won them
I really feel that even though steve austins heel turn wasant the smartest business decision THATS what makes this match out of the 3 the rock and Steve had at Wrestlemania very unique because If Steve beat the rock cleanly and didn't align with mr.mcmahon then it would be the same as the 99 match but the fact Steve turned heel in TEXAS, that sticks out in wrestling fans minds so that's why I actually liked this match it was DIFFERENT and unexpected and if your wwe you can't always give the fans what they want and that's ok.
I like wm17 dude it does have some so so matches at the beginning but taker v triple h was good rock v austin solid shite end, tlc it had a feel that carried it (limp bizkit helped to), wm 21 is my fave (14 very close) so what do I know lol
Well, on the Royal Rumble 2014 you crapped on the fans from saying that the ppv was shitty because of Bryan not being in the Rumble cause the rest of the show was really solid.
But I guess the rules changes for WM 17, huh? I get the ego thing now.
Daniel Bryan also now has a chance to win the WWE WHC at WM 30 still.
Yeah, thanks to CM Punk in my eyes. lol Anyway, if you're pissed at WM 17 because of the ending and that makes the show sucky because of it, it's fine. But I guess this rule should be on every case then.
+OTRSCentral on my opinion the stupid MMcMahon storyline began in 2000 at wrestlemania during that main Event the fatal 4 way eliminating match. started there kinda. then the invasion angle happened between them just continued that.
I can agree the after effect of WM 17 was a turn for the worst for the entire industry. WCW was sold to Vince thus making the Monday Night Wars officially ending. Their top superstar Austin joining his arch rival Vince as bad guys. Even though it's still a memorable show and this definitely was considered the end of an era.
I believe it is a great show because The Rock vs Austin match was a great match despite the ending. TLC II was a great multi man ladder match with awesome spots. Undertaker vs Triple H was a great match but underrated probably because of the 27 & 28 matches. Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit was a great technical match with some great wrestling. Finally Shane vs Vince was very fun Shane going through the table and going coast to coast with the trash can was great. Overall 5 great matches and my favourite WM and WWF/E PPV in my opinion.
This is the most overrated WrestleMania of all Time, And the most overrated Card in Professional Wrestling, i mean HOW in the World can anybody who say he is a Fan of our beloved Sport can say this was the best?? Beside the TLC Match and the Gimmick Battle Royal there were NO WrestleMania Moments. Oh NO i forgot the Main Event.. It made it a 5 Star WrestleMania Lolll Oh God