For anyone doing this, here's a few parts I used and it worked perfect, no caliper spacer. 2000 XJ hubs (long snout) 2002 Sporttrac front rotors 2003 WJ akebono calipers 2003 WJ pads 2003 WJ upper and lower balljoints I didn't go as far to get the same length trac bar as him, mine is about 4" shorter than my drag link but I have no bumpsteer. No steering stabilizer and it drives great.
Not sure if the WJ front D30 is the same width as the XJ's, but if you were to swap the entire D30 from a Quadra-Drive WJ, you would get the Vari-Lok as a bonus. They work pretty good and they are everywhere!
Not sure if it's worth commenting here, but I do have a few questions. Do you retain the 5x4.5 bolt circle, or do those spacers also act as lug pattern adapters? Is there any worth in getting a RHD (Europe, Canada(?)) spec WJ knuckle for the passenger side? Are brake rotor options limited as a result of any changes to the bolt circle? Thanks!
Did you fabricate your own track bar to make it around the coil spring or were you able to buy it with the bend? Been looking to do this and that's probably the slickest way of doing it Ive seen so far. Also does the track bar contact your spring when the passenger sode tire droops?Thanks
It was fabricated to fit around the coil. Keeping the track length the same as the steering is important so you have the same radius arc thus preventing bump steer and binding at droop.
Ya I guess I just never thought of going around the spring, I've only seen the coils moved rearward before. I have a right hand drive XJ do you think that the track bar would be able to clear the pumpkin at the height you have yours set at? I don't see a reason the clearance would be different from a mount inboard of the spring but couldn't get a good view of how high it sits compared to the pumpkin
Just bought a zj and have a wj with blown motor just sitting here. What can I upgrade on my zj with the wj? Thanks, I know this does not coralate to this video.
Knuckles are cast iron..you can't just weld on them. They need to be pre heated and allowed to cool slowly. The sudden shock of heat can cause them to crack, and if you get lucky and they don't they will be screwed down the road
I'm confused I paid one of only two welders in my whole state who specialize specifically in welding cast iron he did mine and he did not pre heat slowly or nothing he's the highest recommended person in the state and one of only 4 people who welds engine blocks nationwide with an unreal reputation if I recall he been welding over 45yrs so did he screw up? Why do you say if you get lucky and they don't crack I'm screwed down the road what does that comment mean specifically I'm concerned? Edit: I believe he used or did something I never heard of called heliarc welding process not sure if that's how it's spelled as I never heard of it before.
+brian pope Yes Inner C's are the same (assuming its a d30). should accept the Knuckle. Correct on the 15" rim clearance issue...for the most part. You can get lucky I think with a wheel spacer. Best to run 16" and avoid it all together.
while i am shopping for these parts, it seams that the hub bearing you suggest from a 06 TJ is the same as the one for a xj. am i missing something, or should i just make a spacer? how thick is the spacer for the calipers?
+MrMrsregor They are basically the same. Other than the studs being longer, which is great if you end up running spacers. From what we can gather, some people need them others don't. I know it sounds silly, but chances are you don't. Threw that in the video at the last second. Sorry for the confusion. If someone else jumps on here and tells us we're dummies in regards to spacers thats cool, I'm all ears. The thickness of the hub spacers are .25" and the caliper spacers are 1/8"
+Enlisted Budget that is what i need to know. Videos your videos are great, thank you! i will make some spacers, i have read other that say they are needed too
+ggrodregez it does fine on the road. The steering links didn't allow the space for us to run a sway bar. It is possible to we just didn't have the time to figure it out.
It don't matter length or angle of track bar but it must make the same arc as steering geometry and control arm arc. Or they will fight each other causing death wobble.
Im currently planning to do this conversion its badass, I was wondering where you got the track bar relocation bracket and the track bar that bends around the coil springs. Or if you know any other brackets/trackbars that would work
Thats the fun part of the swap. The Track Bar bracket on the axle side we made ourselves. The Track bar we had Ironman4x4fab make (who I now work for..funny) The track bar isn't the easiest thing to have made because everyone's setup solely depends on where you place your track bar mount. You want to keep the length the same as the draglink. Thats why ours was so far around the coil spring. Many don't do that. IF you stretch your front an 1.5" - 2" and push the coil springs back. You now have a straight shot to the track bar mount. Thats why I am currently undertaking on my own XJ.
Ok thats alot of work, I was curious if its necessary to extend it that far, most of the forums say they had no problem with bump steering even though they just added a above axle track bar mount before the coil springs. Thanks for the info.
You don't have to technically. The point of matching the length is so the radius arc is the same and wont bind at full droop. If your track bar is shorter than your draglink, at full droop the two will bind and cause your wheels to pull left hard. We were into racing, so this was a major factor for jumps. As soon as you go airborne the axle will shift and turn and you no longer will be landing straight. For rock crawling this won't be as big of a deal. That's why you don't see much about it online.
Enlisted Budget Videos Glad you cleared that up because it's certainly not what you said in the video. Now I feel better about going forward with this.
+Robert Herman You can't run it on top because of clearance issues. Heims might be different, but we haven't had time to explore that option. Stand by for a part number on that 1 ton end.
hey guys i installed a rubicon express drag link but im getteng bump steer i think i may have tapered the knuckle too much ant the rod end went too deep you guys think this could be the problem also im using the stock tie rod please help
If you tapered it too big the extra space may very well be your issue. There shouldn't be any vertical or horizontal play in the TRE. Good way to check is with large pliers and squeeze. If the TRE is compresses in a little, then you have a bad TRE or in your case, too much room for activities. Then again bump steer can come from multiple things. Check your geometry.
+Robert Fernandez centers the unit bearing properly so when you turn you aren't binding the ujoint and shaft inside the axle C. . Something along those lines.
The bearing originally sits tightly in the knuckle to distribute the forces from the road, but by adding the spacer, the bearing is moved out of the knuckle itself and instead sits tightly in just the spacer. With the spacer only bolted in, the bolts become the only thing holding the bearing to the knuckle instead of the whole surface of the knuckle that the bearing tightly sat in before. This means that the bolts now have to take all of the forces from the road instead of those forces being distributed over the whole surface where the bearing used to sit in the knuckle, and the bolts are much more likely to shear and break off. Welding the spacer to the knuckle helps reinforce things, as the forces from the road are now distributed between the bolts and the welds instead of just the bolts.
Depends on what your intentions are with it. Keeping the gear ration semi high will give you stronger R&Ps like 3.73 - 4.10. Anything deeper and all those teeth on the ring start making it weaker. You could always find a 44 front from a TJ or something.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with a Dana 30HP. They are stouter than people think and can be made a VERY capable axle. That said, there is plenty wrong with turboing such a low reving engine as the 4.0. Put down the fast and furious movies.
+Michael Carbary Farmer Johnson Offroad used to carry them. Those are the ones shown in the video. Doenst look like he does anymore. I'll have to message him and see. As we noted, washers are technically an option but probably the most sketch. I would recommend making your own if you have the means to do so. Its a rather simple design.
+Mzandiotis close but no cigar. We were both in Jacksonville NC. Then we both got out of the military. He's in PA I moved to MO but now I just moved back to Hayesville NC lol
+Enlisted Budget Videos one more question would I have to get the hub and brake spacers for this swap or being it's a grand cherokee already it's kinda a direct swap
Good question, that I don't know. The good news is since you have an axle on the side you can probably test that theory. Depends I guess on the differences of the ZJ and WJ brake and hub setups. I'm sure some googling can render your answer.
+Enlisted Budget Videos k tnkz I'll check the length of axel shafts to see the what the difference is on them to see if I need the hub spacer be a nice addition to the zj
True North Jeep they will but you will have to use the outside of the rim to mount balancer weights. I own a WJ with 15's Switched to a different style 15 and they fit. It's very close but no rubbing
is it even worth it at that height? im at about 4.5, i want to go like 5.5 now, is having the high steer arm worth it? i need better steering after bending stock stuff twice. i already bought the knuckles but the track bar is scaring me off. ive built a whole exo cage but messing with steering geometry is a whole different ball game. (yes ive beat on my rig that hard and the stock steering is just now failing! lol)
Is it worth it at that height? Yes. In my opinion hands down. 3.5" with 1 tons OTK. Depending on your application, that setup is fantastic. Lift is great but a low center of gravity can increase your capability greatly. The 7075 will take the abuse in the rocks and never bend, but only bow back to its shape. The one issue that we ran into was using those TREs. Long TREs like the ones we used create a new weak point. They are too long and will bend. Get Barnes4WD 1 Ton TREs and get offset ones for the Tie rod, then stretch your front end 1.5-2" then your track bar will be a straight shot and no need for a Doctor Seuss looking track bar anymore to clear the coil spring.Thats what I am doing for the 44 I am putting in my white XJ that was in the video. Too each their own.
For anyone doing this, here's a few parts I used and it worked perfect, no caliper spacer.
2000 XJ hubs (long snout)
2002 Sporttrac front rotors
2003 WJ akebono calipers
2003 WJ pads
2003 WJ upper and lower balljoints
I didn't go as far to get the same length trac bar as him, mine is about 4" shorter than my drag link but I have no bumpsteer. No steering stabilizer and it drives great.
Did you still weld the spacer on for the hub?
And the hub spacer ??
Wow!
That looks like a lot of work, But totally worth it in the end.
Awesome video!
Great to see boots in the barracks doing something besides getting into trouble and fighting. 🤷🏻♂️
that track bar placement is bad ass... never seen it that far over before
Not sure if the WJ front D30 is the same width as the XJ's, but if you were to swap the entire D30 from a Quadra-Drive WJ, you would get the Vari-Lok as a bonus. They work pretty good and they are everywhere!
+Ulric Gaudette The WJ uses a "Super" D30 and the WMS is a hair longer, although it would potentially eliminate the need for wheel spacers.
Not sure if it's worth commenting here, but I do have a few questions.
Do you retain the 5x4.5 bolt circle, or do those spacers also act as lug pattern adapters?
Is there any worth in getting a RHD (Europe, Canada(?)) spec WJ knuckle for the passenger side?
Are brake rotor options limited as a result of any changes to the bolt circle?
Thanks!
why did you leave the tierod under knuckle instead of going over knuckle as well
YEA WTF
Cool thanks for answering all my questions greatly appreciated
+Ben Greyson No problem. We're all on the same team.
Did you fabricate your own track bar to make it around the coil spring or were you able to buy it with the bend? Been looking to do this and that's probably the slickest way of doing it Ive seen so far. Also does the track bar contact your spring when the passenger sode tire droops?Thanks
It was fabricated to fit around the coil. Keeping the track length the same as the steering is important so you have the same radius arc thus preventing bump steer and binding at droop.
Ya I guess I just never thought of going around the spring, I've only seen the coils moved rearward before. I have a right hand drive XJ do you think that the track bar would be able to clear the pumpkin at the height you have yours set at? I don't see a reason the clearance would be different from a mount inboard of the spring but couldn't get a good view of how high it sits compared to the pumpkin
The track bar was custom made to fit. So you might have to do the same thing to make your clearances with a RH drive.
Just bought a zj and have a wj with blown motor just sitting here. What can I upgrade on my zj with the wj?
Thanks, I know this does not coralate to this video.
Transfer case might be 242 on the WJ.
The front and rear axles might be Quadra Drive but they're totally different.
Nice great vid I'll do the swap on my spare axel that sits on the work bench and is already stripped
Knuckles are cast iron..you can't just weld on them. They need to be pre heated and allowed to cool slowly. The sudden shock of heat can cause them to crack, and if you get lucky and they don't they will be screwed down the road
+joe8388 Correct , thats what we did. Probably didn't mention that part at all lol. But good call!
I'm confused I paid one of only two welders in my whole state who specialize specifically in welding cast iron he did mine and he did not pre heat slowly or nothing he's the highest recommended person in the state and one of only 4 people who welds engine blocks nationwide with an unreal reputation if I recall he been welding over 45yrs so did he screw up? Why do you say if you get lucky and they don't crack I'm screwed down the road what does that comment mean specifically I'm concerned?
Edit: I believe he used or did something I never heard of called heliarc welding process not sure if that's how it's spelled as I never heard of it before.
They are cast steel
off the top of your head would the wj knuckle swap work on a tj that's not a Rubicon? AMD I assume it wouldn't work with a 15" rim.
+brian pope Yes Inner C's are the same (assuming its a d30). should accept the Knuckle. Correct on the 15" rim clearance issue...for the most part. You can get lucky I think with a wheel spacer. Best to run 16" and avoid it all together.
Thanks appreciate it!! Enlisted Budget Videos
What is your steering linkage made of?
Can you still run a 3 link in the front with this conversion and high steer and with the new track bar.sorry if this is a dumb question
Do you need to replace the front brake lines when you do the wj swap or are they the same?
so will currie wj steering fit on this swap?
while i am shopping for these parts, it seams that the hub bearing you suggest from a 06 TJ is the same as the one for a xj. am i missing something, or should i just make a spacer? how thick is the spacer for the calipers?
+MrMrsregor They are basically the same. Other than the studs being longer, which is great if you end up running spacers. From what we can gather, some people need them others don't. I know it sounds silly, but chances are you don't. Threw that in the video at the last second. Sorry for the confusion. If someone else jumps on here and tells us we're dummies in regards to spacers thats cool, I'm all ears. The thickness of the hub spacers are .25" and the caliper spacers are 1/8"
+Enlisted Budget that is what i need to know. Videos your videos are great, thank you! i will make some spacers, i have read other that say they are needed too
Cool beans. Good luck and thanks! Literally walking out the door to go film another one lol.
Whats the point of welding the Flange spacer on the knuckle
How about going to coil over shocks & moving them back enough to clear the track bar?
I noticed you are not running and anti-sway bar on this jeep. How does it behave on road without?
+ggrodregez it does fine on the road. The steering links didn't allow the space for us to run a sway bar. It is possible to we just didn't have the time to figure it out.
It don't matter length or angle of track bar but it must make the same arc as steering geometry and control arm arc. Or they will fight each other causing death wobble.
Eli In the Wolverine State dude great comment!
That is exactly why mine keeps wandering, even after an alignment.
THANK YOU
Hi. What tie rod end's you use to build your drag link?
Im currently planning to do this conversion its badass, I was wondering where you got the track bar relocation bracket and the track bar that bends around the coil springs. Or if you know any other brackets/trackbars that would work
Thats the fun part of the swap. The Track Bar bracket on the axle side we made ourselves. The Track bar we had Ironman4x4fab make (who I now work for..funny) The track bar isn't the easiest thing to have made because everyone's setup solely depends on where you place your track bar mount. You want to keep the length the same as the draglink. Thats why ours was so far around the coil spring. Many don't do that. IF you stretch your front an 1.5" - 2" and push the coil springs back. You now have a straight shot to the track bar mount. Thats why I am currently undertaking on my own XJ.
Ok thats alot of work, I was curious if its necessary to extend it that far, most of the forums say they had no problem with bump steering even though they just added a above axle track bar mount before the coil springs. Thanks for the info.
You don't have to technically. The point of matching the length is so the radius arc is the same and wont bind at full droop. If your track bar is shorter than your draglink, at full droop the two will bind and cause your wheels to pull left hard. We were into racing, so this was a major factor for jumps. As soon as you go airborne the axle will shift and turn and you no longer will be landing straight. For rock crawling this won't be as big of a deal. That's why you don't see much about it online.
Enlisted Budget Videos Glad you cleared that up because it's certainly not what you said in the video. Now I feel better about going forward with this.
Enlisted Budget Videos l
Why not take the whole axle? I've seen this asked but never answered...
The drag link and trac bar need to be as close to parallel as possible. Length dont cause bump steer but not having them parallel will
That is also correct.
how well does stock xj master cylinder handle the wj calipers?
you can upgrade to a durango/dakota master cylinder as a bolt on upgrade FYI
are the front fender flares/armor the ones from Dirtbound Offroad??
Are you using a drop or stock pitman arm? if drop, how many inches?
+Robert Herman stock pitman arm
Could you run the Tie rod on top of the knuckle with out any issues? also do you have a part number for the passenger side 1 ton tie rod end?
+Robert Herman You can't run it on top because of clearance issues. Heims might be different, but we haven't had time to explore that option. Stand by for a part number on that 1 ton end.
you can with offset GM TREs. it's been done
Offsets are what I am going with actually when I do mine here very soon (white XJ). We plan on doing another WJ knuckle video to cover a lot gaps.
+Enlisted Budget Videos awesome! Sub'd
Enlisted Budget Videos
How did you get that tight bend on the track bar? Did you piece that track bar bracket together?
Track bar info needed please
Yes,... I was wondering the same.
hey guys i installed a rubicon express drag link but im getteng bump steer i think i may have tapered the knuckle too much ant the rod end went too deep you guys think this could be the problem also im using the stock tie rod please help
If you tapered it too big the extra space may very well be your issue. There shouldn't be any vertical or horizontal play in the TRE. Good way to check is with large pliers and squeeze. If the TRE is compresses in a little, then you have a bad TRE or in your case, too much room for activities. Then again bump steer can come from multiple things. Check your geometry.
why must you weld the spacer? Bolts will hold it in place. I've see others weld them in too.
+Robert Fernandez centers the unit bearing properly so when you turn you aren't binding the ujoint and shaft inside the axle C. . Something along those lines.
The bearing originally sits tightly in the knuckle to distribute the forces from the road, but by adding the spacer, the bearing is moved out of the knuckle itself and instead sits tightly in just the spacer. With the spacer only bolted in, the bolts become the only thing holding the bearing to the knuckle instead of the whole surface of the knuckle that the bearing tightly sat in before. This means that the bolts now have to take all of the forces from the road instead of those forces being distributed over the whole surface where the bearing used to sit in the knuckle, and the bolts are much more likely to shear and break off. Welding the spacer to the knuckle helps reinforce things, as the forces from the road are now distributed between the bolts and the welds instead of just the bolts.
what spacers were you holding up that you tossed away?? brake caliper bracket, or wheel?
Are you talking about at 4:20? If so thats caliper spacers
yes did you buy those or make them?
+Joey Harris bought them from Farmer Johnson Offroad but they are no longer in business. Washers will work but not as great as that bracket.
Lift height requirements?
Can you use the Alloy USA 30 spline hubs without the spacer?
Nice video guys !
is this dana 30 even worth keeping my zj has a turbo on it and wondering if it will hold the power
Depends on what your intentions are with it. Keeping the gear ration semi high will give you stronger R&Ps like 3.73 - 4.10. Anything deeper and all those teeth on the ring start making it weaker. You could always find a 44 front from a TJ or something.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with a Dana 30HP. They are stouter than people think and can be made a VERY capable axle. That said, there is plenty wrong with turboing such a low reving engine as the 4.0. Put down the fast and furious movies.
Dude, Where are your frame stiffeners?
I noticed that you didn't flip the tie rod to the top of the knuckles, is there a reason not to?
thanks
+Larry Franco My bigger 1-ton TREs will not clear the upper steering arm on the drivers-side knuckle when inverted. -Spence
+Enlisted Budget Videos would offset one ton tie rod ends clear?
I'm hoping to do this swap soon.
+Larry Franco driver side?
+Larry Franco No, it's the actual height of the TRE. If you wanted to flip it, heim joints would probably be your best bet.
Where did you buy those caliper bracket spacers?
+Michael Carbary Farmer Johnson Offroad used to carry them. Those are the ones shown in the video. Doenst look like he does anymore. I'll have to message him and see. As we noted, washers are technically an option but probably the most sketch. I would recommend making your own if you have the means to do so. Its a rather simple design.
Will the tj hubs work with my zj when I run the wj brakes and be the same bolt pattern of my zj
TJ hubs are 5x4.5 and ZJs are 5x4.5. So yes it will work. Also you need to get the WJ slotted rotors for 5x4.5. Which Iron rock offroad offers.
link for buying the reaming bit you used in the video?
+James Ouellette
Resources for drill bits/reamers...
Mcmaster-Carr drill 5/8" bit #2933A28
www.mcmaster.com/#29415a28/=10s948k
Speedway Motors - 1 1/2 Inch Per Foot Reamer
www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Tapered-Ball-Joint-Reamer-7-Degree,2918.html
One thing to do a stock rear is if you can swap the disc brakes off of a ZJ Without too much trouble
would I have up get larger than 15" wheels for the upgrade
Most likely yes. Some 15" rims might clear it, but I can't guarantee what will work.
great info guys
Can i use xj stock calipers with the wj knuckles?
I believe you can but that defeats the purpose of a majority of the swap. I haven't found much info on keeping the XJ brakes.
Are yaw'll in Fayetteville, NC by chance?
+Mzandiotis close but no cigar. We were both in Jacksonville NC. Then we both got out of the military. He's in PA I moved to MO but now I just moved back to Hayesville NC lol
Would the wj knuckles work on my zj
+downsouth_ Zj Yes, you have a dana 30 so this should work.
+Enlisted Budget Videos one more question would I have to get the hub and brake spacers for this swap or being it's a grand cherokee already it's kinda a direct swap
Good question, that I don't know. The good news is since you have an axle on the side you can probably test that theory. Depends I guess on the differences of the ZJ and WJ brake and hub setups. I'm sure some googling can render your answer.
+Enlisted Budget Videos k tnkz I'll check the length of axel shafts to see the what the difference is on them to see if I need the hub spacer be a nice addition to the zj
Did u ever find out because I have a ZJ
are the ball joints the same from wj to a zj
+Ben Greyson dana 30 and Dana 44 ball joints are all the same. So the ball joints from a ZJ with a 30 is the same WJ with a 30..or XJ TJ YJ etc..
Will the bigger brakes clear 15" rims?
True North Jeep they will but you will have to use the outside of the rim to mount balancer weights.
I own a WJ with 15's
Switched to a different style 15 and they fit.
It's very close but no rubbing
Jacob Russo thanks!
Welcome bro
What did yall do about the master cylinder
+Jason Ogle we left it alone. Never had an issue with it with WJ brakes. You could change it if you wanted I suppose.
Ok I've seen on some forums that the pedal feels spongy. I'm in the middle of doing this swap right now on a 05 rubicon
what's the red XJ sticker on the white jeep?
+Larry Franco I think you are referring to the Hidden Wounds XJ sticker.
+Enlisted Budget Videos
thought so
how much lift do you have?
The black one around 3.5" the white one around 4"
is it even worth it at that height? im at about 4.5, i want to go like 5.5 now, is having the high steer arm worth it? i need better steering after bending stock stuff twice.
i already bought the knuckles but the track bar is scaring me off.
ive built a whole exo cage but messing with steering geometry is a whole different ball game.
(yes ive beat on my rig that hard and the stock steering is just now failing! lol)
Is it worth it at that height? Yes. In my opinion hands down. 3.5" with 1 tons OTK. Depending on your application, that setup is fantastic. Lift is great but a low center of gravity can increase your capability greatly. The 7075 will take the abuse in the rocks and never bend, but only bow back to its shape. The one issue that we ran into was using those TREs. Long TREs like the ones we used create a new weak point. They are too long and will bend. Get Barnes4WD 1 Ton TREs and get offset ones for the Tie rod, then stretch your front end 1.5-2" then your track bar will be a straight shot and no need for a Doctor Seuss looking track bar anymore to clear the coil spring.Thats what I am doing for the 44 I am putting in my white XJ that was in the video. Too each their own.
and that around the coil track bar bracket where can I get one
+Ben Greyson the track bar bracket is made by ironman 4x4 fab. The track bar itself is completely custom made specifically for the jeep.
@@EnlistedBudgetVideos
Who or how is that track bar made? Please.
@@EnlistedBudgetVideos I couldn’t find it in their site. Would you mind providing a link to the bracket?
Your lead-in is way too long
Intro
Dude that wind is fucked. Should have voice overed
dont forget to use akebono calipers from late 02-04 wjs. continental teves wj calipers with the outer clip suck balls
Fuck all this mess, leave space between you and the next vehicle and don't drive like an ass. Done.