Christian vs SATAN's GUIDE TO THE BIBLE (feat Brady Goodwin)
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- Опубліковано 19 лют 2024
- Christian apologist @MikeWinger watched Satan's Guide to the Bible, a popular video he says is "pretending to represent scholarship in general while only promoting selective skeptical talking points." Brady Goodwin of @ichapod joins me to address this take.
10 Questions with Mike Winger (Episode 114)
• 10 Questions with Mike...
SATAN'S GUIDE TO THE BIBLE
• SATAN'S GUIDE TO THE B...
The Diablocritics - 5 Scholars vs Mike Winger
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Mr Deity WOTM: Stop The Steal, Part I
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The Christian: "How can you worship Satan?"
The Satanist: "I don't. Satanists don't typically believe in a literal Satan. It's a metaphor."
The Christian: "Well, then what do you call people who do believe in a literal Satan?"
The Satanist: "Christians."
😂😂
Yeah, I, as a Zoroastrian, actually interpret ahr*man as a metaphor, too. Just as a metaphor for things such as greed, hatred, and other harmful "thoughts" for lack of a better term.
@@TheMilitantMazdakitewhy do you choose to subscribe to Zoroastrianism of all things. Just for fun?
I love this. If you believe in Satan, unless you divorce the idea from the rest of the Bible for some reason, you're Christian. If Satanists genuinely believed in Satan, they'd be a subset of Christianity.
@@ancientflames I actually am a former New Atheist. I converted to Zoroastrianism because of it's emphasis on your actions over ritual and prayer, and is liberal and egalitarian. I chose Mazdakism specifically because it A). Takes the anti-ritualism above and beyond, making worship entirely optional, B). teaches absolute equality and the abolition of social and economic classes, and was actually the primary factor in me going from being a liberal to being a communist, and C). teaches ethical hedonism, and even allows "free sex, provided the woman agreed to it". We have the oppisite views on sex that rush limbaugh did. (May he suffer in the House of Lies (Hell) for eternity)
“God didn’t want people to sacrifice their children. He just wanted to make sure they were the kinds of people who were capable of sacrificing their children.” Mike’s such a serious person. 🤣🤣🤣
🤣
Still at the beginning of the video and saw this comment.
Damn. Holy shit. If Mike says that then that is not the win he actually thinks it is. If a person can get you to the point where you are capable of sacrificing your kid or any kid for that matter, then that person/god/deity is a fncked up monster.
Can Mike really not hear what he is saying?
@@amypieterse4127I'm pretty sure he's a sociopath, so he probably does and just doesn't care.
Isn't like,,, most of christianity based around god sacrificing his one and only son (who is human but also god himself) to himself?
The story of Abraham and Isaac is a story about the end of human sacrifice! It is very plainly stating that this practice did occur, but Yahweh has changed his mind about this practice!
When I started exploring Biblical scholarship, I also asked why we aren’t up front with people. I was told some people’s faith isn’t strong enough yet. I’ve always believed that if you have to hide things, there’s a problem.
Which is the exact opposite to science. Where if you don't show your work you are not allowed to publish. And then it is gone over with a critical eye to discover any flaws in the testing.
"Our book is wrong and you need to make people believe in it before they can know it's inaccurate"
No wonder they don't want people to hear this.
Sounds exactly like the reason why Scientologists don't tell you the Xenu story until you've already sunk a ton of money and time into the organization.
The people who are not being 'up front' are the ones whose faith is not mature enough to be able to explain things clearly.
@@longbeardbobson4710 No, they're the ones who have self awareness. Because they know if they say "Jesus expected the end times in his generation", then that's a controversial statement. So people would leave. Because the mythologizing of Jesus is too important for him to be wrong about something like that, right?
It's not the explanation, it's what they're actually saying. That's why preachers have to keep spinning stories to BS messages out of them and using all these weird rhetorical tricks, because if they just explained the truth of what The Bible says and gave it to people in clear straightforward terms then it wouldn't give people the messages they want to hear.
The only thing worse than having an imaginary friend is having an imaginary enemy
Babycakes from China IL be like:
"Satan's greatest trick is convincing the world he doesn't exist."
@@RacingSnails64 you have no evidence that the devil or god exist,
@@RacingSnails64 provide evidence that your god and the devil are real, oh wait. You can’t, because you don’t have any
@@RacingSnails64 There's just one big issue, Satan didn't convince us that he doesn't exist, it's you Christians that didn't manage to convince us that he does exist. You know, due to lack of evidence and constantly repeating circular reasoning, non sequiturs and strawmans on science due to not understanding it and whatnot
We're not convinced that the devil doesn't exist, we're simply not convinced that god, the devil, heaven, hell, souls or anything unnatural mentioned in the bible exists in the first place
When I was at Church I wasn't only being kept in the DARK about the consensus of scholars. I was being told the Disciples wrote the gospels and that the bible is true because of prophecy, I was taught the bible was historical fact. SO ANGRY
When did you leave christianity?
Yeah… it’s better to just tell people the truth. I still believe Jesus rose from the dead, but I acknowledge the reality of what the Bible is and how it was formed.
I grew up in catholic school where it was much the same. The beginning of my deconversion was finding out how much of what I was told was historical fact, was actuality lies
@@Daniel-mw7pubut why though?
@@utubepunk the Bible is a collection of works spanning centuries that is part history, part cultural narrative, part doctrine. The stories in the Bible are meant to contextualize historical events - like the Babylonian exile - within a specific cultural and religious understanding. It appropriates and subverts common cultural tropes and mythologies. For instance, Jesus appropriates hades and Elysium in the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16. Only, the Greco-Roman mythology said that rich people, by virtue of their wealth and social standing, went to Elysium and poor people were destined to hell.
I suppose for me, experiencing the real love of God and meeting other authentic Christians is why I still believe.
An apologist whining about propagandists is a microcosm of modern culture.
Yeah I'm surprised steam didn't come out of his ears and his head didn't spin around with all that apologizing.
Agree although the Xi Jinping thing is comically lame. Super annoying how, almost without fail, atheist creators spend so much time taking down religious propaganda and then turn around and lap up political propaganda. Almost like if it’s not religious it doesn’t count.
@@DigitalHayds non sequiturs are fun.
@@GameTimeWhy if you’re saying my point doesn’t follow, could you clarify where from?
@@GameTimeWhy because for one thing I wasn’t trying to connect two premises and for another it takes less than 5 seconds on Google to find that the “ban on Pooh” thing is straight up western propaganda 🤷♂️
I’m so glad Paul found that video! The difference between what’s taught in Sunday school and what’s taught is seminar is vast, and he presented that difference in such an intuitive way
yup, and happens in academia as well
@@polystrate1 tbf few teachers teaching middle school level curriculum have any idea what is being taught in academia, and most highschool teachers don't either. It's a bit different from knowing what's being taught and intentionally misframing.
@@DBZHGWgamer I agree.
@@polystrate1 How so.
@@jeffreylehman1159 in the natural sciences, the layperson is pitched a much more positive and glowing version than what professors learn in the upper levels. The public is meant to believe that everything is kosher when many ideas are really in a state of limbo/chaos
That video has actually gotten more than one response from apologetics, I haven't watched any of them in particular but they really are taking it seriously. It seems to have ruffled a few feathers.
You've got the scholars speaking in their own words, Very hard to brush that under the rug.
Apologists are in a bad spot right now because each time an apologist of clout lies online there is someone representing scholarship sitting at their keyboard ready to point it out. I think that religion might be in the process of getting reduced to only those who most want to blind themselves to reality. It is reaching a point where the religous have to buy into more and more ridiculous claims to maintain their faith.
The Satan's Guide has Satan talking directly to children. Nothing could be more threatening and terrifying to a pastor than to put doubt into the minds of the next generation of his flock.
@@PrometheanRisingon top of that, the number of out atheists on UA-cam, IG, & TikTok are growing rapidly, and they’re forcing apologists to respond. But more and more Christians are seeing through those responses, because they can do exactly what Winger doesn’t - they can follow the thread of scholarship for themselves.
Just think how many atheist UA-cam channels have hit 25K, 50K, 100K, and up subscribers in the last year. Their growth is accelerating!
I'm impressed (or maybe I just lack imagination). I didn't think Mike Winger could seem more arrogant and annoying, but he truly outdid himself on this one. His performative chuckling at the "honesty" of scholars particularly was the cherry on top of his condescending response.
I do not like that man.
Why don't pastors tell their congregants about these "bible secrets"? And if they do, then they say, "if you know this and still believe, then you're a "mature" christian."
Well, it's obvious. Their jobs depend on people believing this stuff. With every generation, more and more people are leaving the church, and so very many churches have shut their doors in the past 30 years.
It's just a matter of time.
By "mature Christian," they mean someone so deeply invested in the faith that they'll accept pretty much anything to avoid losing it.
Any pastor that tells a congregant that they "are a mature Christian" by powering through their doubt is flipping the script - well played pastors! Faith is "believing in what is not seen" (paraphrasing). Ergo SUPER FAITH 🤩is required to keep believing despite seeing strong evidence that is CONTRARY to your beliefs. Telling somebody they are a "mature Christian" bolsters their self-esteem & confidence and is likely to keep them coming back every Sunday.
@@rboland2173 Exactly!
One of the most profound questions raised in Plato among other philosophers is “Is it good because God chooses it, or does God choose it because it is good?”
Certainly, It is absurd to conclude the bible equals morality. The problem is christian's claim objective moral standards that are directly falsified by their own conflict on every moral issue Past and present.
Theists claim the argument can be 'debunked' with a 3rd option:
"Goodness is grounded in G0d's nature."
This is circular to me because it poses another dilemma: "What makes/why is G0d good? And who decides it?"
It's meant rhetorically because it's people deciding & I have no justified reason to believe them. It's only true to the one saying it, & it's not an objective fact, but a subjective opinion.
@AmyJ-Brossdard80 the choosing part is inessential to the point. What a hand-waving argument that the apologists are making there. All they are really doing is providing an opportunity to improve on the Euthyphro dilemma.
@@PrometheanRising Yes. That's why it fails because if it were true, there's no reason to choose
Another issue is especially regarding the bible & the horrific acts commanded directly by G0d.
"You CAN'T judge G0d because his ways are higher than ours." They won't get it, but they sh00t themselves in the foot saying that. If you can't judge his actions as bad, then you can't judge him to be good either since you're still casting judgement, & if they say "That's different" then it's special pleading on their part.
@@ArnyJ-Brosausage80 Right, saying 'his ways are higher' is a logical contradiction. They are claiming to know something that they are literally asserting that no one can know in the same statement.
I did not get a full theology degree, but I did take graduate level seminary courses from a liberal institution. Not only did we learn "Bible secrets," we also learned how to present the information in a faithful manner.
For example, we learned that the story of Moses and the Exodus were not historical. But then we were taught how to present it. Focus on the moral lessons, and don't present it as historical facts. We were told to cherry-pick the moral lessons and lie by omission on the historicity.
It makes Christianity a much more powerful position if the OT is treated as a morality play.. and stupid if treated as history
In my experience, i have much fewer issues and complaints with thise who see it as fiction to tell morals. Even though I take issue with plenty of those morals, I can appreciate Greek morality like Aesop's Fables and Grimm's Fairy Tales in a simialr manner. It's when folks want to argue that all the "holy relics" around the world are all real and that a real man died and came back to life and was alien tractor beamed into heaven.
I would have the same issues with someone who insisted a fat German Saint was invading all our homes and leaving presents for free, while my parents have receipts and bank records for every single item they signed as "From Santa Claus"
@@magicker8052
the possibly real story of moses is deep and fascinating, but probably all allegory
@@magicker8052 Huh? The god it depicts is the antithesis of moral.
@@user-gl5dq2dg1j sure there is a lot of that but that is worse if you take it literally their best bet is to treat it as a collection of stories about the human condition.. good and bad.
the idea that the transfiguration is what was being talked about when Jesus said 'some of you will not taste death until...
I mean what a weird thing to say?
'I'm going to show you something tomorrow - don't worry, some of you will still be alive then'.
Yes, that requires at least 9.0 or higher mental gymnastics performance.
@@kriegmesserdclxvi2833 Romanian judge won't give you more than a 6.0
@@caffetiel
only if it isn't Nadia Comaneci.
I'm having death chops for dinner...
Tasty.
@@larryscarr3897I always assumed Death was just a skeleton under the robes. What else has he been hiding?
The Satan’s Guide video is so, so good. Highly recommended.
The felt art style hits home with my Sunday school memories. ❤
100%, like many, I started S's Guide, not imagining I would see it all, but watched it through, it's really good!
@@ritawing1064Seen it six times and will surely watch it again.
I really was taken aback by the last minute twist at the end, but upon reflection, it is in line with how Christians behave.
Some of the kids creeped me out but yeah, I love the animation styles!
@@guybrush1701I liked that the kids seemed like a pretty good reflection of people I know. There's some folks I do not associate with because if Jesus told them to burn down the building with me in it, well, I wouldn't trust them to keep the Thous shalt not Kill commandment!
When I was a Christian, the pastor of my church had and I believe still has a program that what title “ Questions and answers “. Anyone could call and present their question. The questions were written and read by a lady and then the pastor will answer it. I called several times and presented my questions. But not once my questions were presented to the pastor. They purposely selected the questions for the program.
Then one day I was attending a bible clase given by the pastor and he was teaching about the gospel of John. He said something about when John wrote the gospel and I ask him how old was John when he wrote the gospel. The pastor pause to think how he was going to answer my question. Then he said that John did not write the gospel, he dictated his story to someone that knew how to write. But never answered my question. In this moment I realize that he was lying. Then I ask about the others writers ages. He had no answer. Then I ask where are the originals kept and if we had access to them.
As you can imagine I was making everyone uncomfortable, specially the pastor. But I was only curious. My curiosity expose the dishonesty and lies of this very known pastor.
Today every time I hear a pastor or any preacher say that the gospel are gods words, all that crosses my mind is that they are liars. Sorry but Satan is wright. They are all liars.
Satan sure touched a nerve...
XD right? Got a lot of hit dogs hollerin
69 likes
he is the adversary, afterall
Hell yeah, pun intended.
@@whizthesugoiaccording to.......???
So basically Mike Winger repeatedly said, “Nuh-uh! And you’re mean!”
Is it a day ending in Y?
The number of times where he says some variation of 'this isn't new' while saying in his head 'we just haven't been telling you about it' is basically the theme of the entire video.
Why did he even make his video at all? The original already had Jesus whining "Nuh-uh! Satan is a mean liar." This Mike guy just wasted time repeating that.
@alexanderrichards239 I think one reason that apologists make these videos is so that they can say that they have responded. Mike even does it in the video when he references another video about the book of Daniel. It doesn't matter to Mike that his excuses in that video are garbage, what matters to Mike is that he can say 'I addressed that in a video'. This creates a warm fuzzy feeling in his followers because they feel like the issue has been addressed and that they no longer have to worry about it.
He's saying: I can think of ways that makes this story not impossible, so it must be true!
Mike: 'He can't present only one side, only I am allowed to do that. Propaganda is bad when its not my side doing it!'
I find Mike's screeching and whining about propaganda hilarious when his entire job is an apologist for his christianism...the definition of a propagandist. "The Chinese government would approve".
Even his own bible is a form of propaganda. He seems oblivious of this and more interested in poisoning the well by using "propaganda" as a pejorative.
Somehow I bet that when he gives a sermon, he doesn't talk about the scholarship against what he is saying. What a hypocrite!
Also, it's the false balance logical fallacy. You don't need to present the other side if that side isn't credible.
@sthed6832 Actually this is one of the reasons I really appreciate Mike. He will often present multiple points of view and and admit when he isn't sure about things. His videos are often long form and we are all busy so I understand not sitting thought to listen, but it is there.
@@Yoyojim1He "present" multiple points of view like a card shark deals hands. He's purposefully played them in a manner that is designed, by deliberation, to lose.
OMG Satan's Guide to the Bible is SO SO good💚 this makes me want to watch it again lol...and holy shit, what Brady's professor said to him is beyond screwed up. The commentary on this was spot-on. You can tell Mike is extremely uncomfortable and doesn't even seem convinced by his own "arguments". Loved seeing the scholar's reactions too. This is definitely my favorite video of yours so far! Great job guys thanks
It really hits home for me as a preacher's kid. I'm on my six viewing.
@@uncleanunicorn4571 sorry to hear that...I can def relate...I am unfortunately also a preacher's kid. It's crazy as I've gotten older I've realized how straight up delusional and dishonest my parents are. Truly sickening. For most of my life I never felt like I had a choice whether or not I believed, that that's what indoctrination does. My partner died six years ago and it changed me profoundly. That was the beginning of my deconstruction. Once you see it you can't unsee it. It took a long time to get here, but life really is so much more peaceful now that I don't believe. All the inner conflict is gone and I don't feel lost anymore. I feel a lot better about myself. Its a tough journey but ultimately it's the exact opposite of what the church tells you. The true freedom comes when you're able to finally release those beliefs and start thinking for yourself. Also check out: Bart Erhman, Harmonic Atheist, Genetically Modified Skeptic, Mindshift and Viced Rhino, just to name a few.
It played a huge role in my deconstruction. Great video
I’m also a preacher’s kid but my parents were sporadic preachers so thankfully I never had the typical PK experience
When a christian says you need to present both sides of the argument, laugh at their faces and ask if that is what they do when they preach and convert people.
They claim it's propaganda when you argue against them and say you need to argue for them too, but if they did that, you wouldn't need to do it in the first place!
true- and I get hyped up when they say context matters, cause clearly it works both ways...
+ context doesnt matter really, as there is no context or excuse for non belief. At the throne of judgement, God will not care for your context of your life... so Christians should be like God and not care about context
@@mnm8818 My usual answer to the "context matter" is 'Sure, the context makes it worse... What? i cant say context changes the topic without elaborating? Ok then is your turn, how does context help you"
@@Julian0101 mmm. context doesnt matter- Be like God, He will not care about your context of life
if you can see it in 3rd person then thats one step to knowing yourself. why and how you believe
truth is not sort after, but to keep ones own truth. seek ones own self and you will find
@@Julian0101 to be clear, im atheist and my goal is to show believers their own mind, how and why they believe
There is a concept of "rising to the level'. Sometimes, there aren't actually two sides. There is one side that is engaging with the issues and there is another side making noise to distract from it.
"God doesn't want to sacrifice kids, he just keeps demanding that people should do it consistently over and over again."
Boy, that Mr. Deity fellow is almost as sexy as Paulogia and Brady... almost! Thanks for the plug guys! I have a video plugging the Paulogia Gary Habermas video next month. We're engaged in a virtuous circle!!! Hope I don't get dizzy.
Also, I knew nothing of icapod until now. Always excited to see more young, hip people like myself engaging with the excusegists! I'll be checking out that content soon! This was great!
"Virtuous circle" 😅 thx for that. As a Westminster grad, that hit the spot 🎯
Love you misterdeity!!!
25:40 Reminds of how Kent Hovind, a strict bible literalist, handles Mark 9:1 by claiming the people that heard the statement are immortal and still alive until the prophecy comes to pass in 2027.
Only the handful of people that heard it gained eternal life? That's q funny and terrible apologetic.
Jesus Christ that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Why haven't they been running their mouths that they're the real deal ever since? Did they move to Argentina and hide out for the last 2000+ years?
Edit: something this stupid doesn't surprise me coming from Kent. He's one of the dumbest apologists I'm currently aware of.
CLASSIC Kent! 👍Arrogance, idiocy and stubbornness - the apologist trifecta. But if Kent gives an exact date of 2027 and Jesus doesn't return - Kent will have to pivot. But he can deal with making up BS on the fly - that's why he makes the big money!
Mel Brooks? Yay! Long Live Mel!
Watching Mike Winger try to cope by laughing it off is pretty special.
Also, Mike Winger thinks it's right to torture people forever for being gay, so I would say that his idea of "objective morality" is not as objective as he thinks.
more like mike wingnut
I noticed a whole lot of laughing as well.
@@01Aigul why? Christians believe that there is an objective morality made by God. God says homosexuality is a sin. The consequence of sin is death. Believing people who practice homosexuality will go to hell is not subjective according to Christianity. It would be in accordance with the Christian faith.
@@rsbaieba2632 Only a subset of Christians believe that, although they feel entitled to speak on behalf of all other Christians. But yes I'm saying that Mike Winger's beliefs are wrong, and evil.
I'm glad to see that Brady made the transition into Paulogiaworld. Top shelf collaboration. 👍
18:22 "Jephthah blew it - that's the thing. They show no text in scripture anywhere that suggests that God was favorable towards this, wanted Jephthah to do this, was ok in any way."
How about from Paul's own mouth in Hebrews 11? Paul praises his heroes from the old testament, wrapping it up in verses 32-34 with "And what more shall I say? Time will not allow me to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel, and the prophets, who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, quenched the raging fire, and escaped the edge of the sword; who gained strength from weakness, became mighty in battle, and put foreign armies to flight."
Yeah at this point it has to be malicious lying from apologists like winger.
Of course YHWH was favorable toward the sacrifice. If he weren't, he could have sent an angel to Jephthah to stop the sacrifice and explain that the god of Abraham desires not the sacrifice of human life in his name. He could have denied Jephthah victory so as to not have to collect on the sacrifice. He could have punished Jephthah after the sacrifice was done. YHWH could have have offered to let Jephthah's daughter dedicate her life to serving god and remaining a virgin (a common apologetic for this story that pretends the word used for sacrifice doesn't indicate "as a burnt offering").
And yeah, the Bible could have left Jephthah out of the list of righteous Jewish Patriarchs if YHWH really wasn't in favor of human sacrifice.
(Amos 4;6+) this is God (he will inflict pain till you follow and worship him)
@@violeth2255 It is not like there are other stories on the bible when if someone is going to sacrifice their own child for god, he himself appears and make clear the sacrifice is not necesary... right?
How about Jesus himself, God’s own son, the sacrifice of whom pleased God so much that it absolved All sin. Sounds like approval to me.
I've never understood the obsession with the empty tomb. Even as a Christian it never seemed like a particularly compelling point.
Same! I went to a very mellow church as a kid, no longer a believer. They were mostly about being nice to others, being a good person and making a positive impact on the world. I don't think people did NOT believe, but their priorities felt pretty grounded.
@Jgraypatt
Whenever an apologist brings up “the evidence of the empty tomb” I seriously think it makes as much sense as saying “the evidence of platform 9 & 3/4” and expecting to be taken seriously.
Imagine thinking it isn’t ridiculous to bring the “evidence” of “the empty tomb” up and expecting atheists to have to explain it. Seriously it would be like some demanding you explain the brickwall’s lack of magical doorway, at Kings Cross Station’s platform 9-10.
And doing so because in this story, someone trying to keep Harry away from danger at school, sealed the entryway to the platform for the Hogwarts’ Express, so Harry & Ron used a magic, flying car instead..
So this plot point is now actually “evidence” of the magical plot point happening IRL.
It is absolutely fkn absurd.
@@Petticca I would suggest the problem is that ones faith is made of a wall of bricks you can tolerate some of the bricks being pulled out of the wall and the wall will still stand but then some bricks affect the rest of the wall more. I think the actual historicity of the bible is one of those Bricks. 200 year ago biblical scholars of all persuasions would most probably argue that Moses, Exodus were history. now most biblical scholar say this is mythology & what you get is evangelical scholars clutching at straws.
I think the retreat of faith and its replacement by facts & data is what Mike Winger is railing against. As with the other ppaulogia video regarding evangelical views on deconversion it is uncomfortable for Christians not having the playing field of ideas about the scripture to themselves & the idea biblical inquiry requires a predisposition of faith is justan 'excusigist' view of what is faith & what is genuine inquiry of the truth.
in simple terms faith requires a lack of doubt for Mike it is the doubt that is the problem
Especially when the empty tomb story differs so much depending on who is telling it. To put this into a more modern setting, this is EXACTLY what we would expect from interviewing several people twenty years after they heard about (not even witnessed first hand mind you) an alien spacecraft abducting old man Thompson on his farm. The more exact details there are in a story, the more there is to get incorrect (if it's based on a true event) or to embellish if it's complete fiction in the first place.
Small world - I have been to Kings Cross Station a few times when I was stationed in England in the Air Force. No magical doorways that I remember, but I do remember that the toilet paper in the men's room was TERRIBLE! It had the texture of wax paper! 😡@@Petticca
Did Mike Winger just spend the whole video going "Nu-Uh!"
His feelings are definitely hurt. Lol.
Uh-huh! 😉
Pretty much
No
Why, yes indeed. Those that have ears, let them hear. Everybody else be a literalist.
Mike doesn't like it when people mock him. This is strange, since he is so good at mocking others himself.
Doing something a lot isn’t the same thing as being good at it.
As my dearly departed best friend Jeff used to say, "It's amazing how many people can't stomach what they dish out."
@@zenkim6709 Sorry about your friend. :(
Satan's Guide was such an out of nowhere surprise. Incredibly well made though thanks to Paulogia most of it wasn't news to me😅
Why do cartoons make things for fun? 😊
I still can’t get over the sheer audacity of *evangelical Christians* complaining that their critics “aren’t giving people both sides of the argument!” Jaw-dropping.
I was in Bible School and learned these items, first year. This was one of the reasons I left, and so many of my former class mates did as well....
What I found scary is the majority of atheist are the ones that read the bible. If you have don't stuy it then you get all the good bits and none of the bad bits.
As soon as you start reading it yourself and read it critically it falls apart. It is actually a really scary process because it is quite unexpected. It is like finding out your parents are mass murderers it really hit you straight in the the guts .
Welcome Brady! I really liked this guest appearance. I hope there's a chance for you to come again!
So Winger never requires Apologists to list both sides, but he insists the other side does.
Religious hypocrisy knows no bounds
I just watched "Satan's Guide To The Bible!"
It was fantasic!
Thanks & Cheers!
💖
In Bible, if god was 'not cool' with something, he makes it pretty clear.
Thou shalt not sacrifice children
Thou shalt not own people
See, it's easy. Why couldn't God do it?
@@JasonHenderson because it was normal practice during the time. Why would he 😂.
@@ancientflames To distinguish himself from all the other gods around that didn't exist?
If Christians want equal time to respond to critics, they can start by giving atheists equal time in their pulpits.
well said, unfortunately it'll come down to the matter of the pastor's ego
Makes actually no sense but sounds pithy so go off.
@@ChristDiedForYou_liveforhim I could say the same about your comment.
I think you all might misunderstand the point of the pulpit. In debates, both sides should have the opportunity, but the pulpit is for educating the congregation about Christ. Just like the lectern at a school is used for lectures about the class being taught.
@@_shocked-face_ Preachers do not educate from the pulpit, they propagandize. At any rate, if they are going to demand that critics give them equal time, they they should also give equal time to their critics.
The Satans Guide video is sooo good. Share it with every deconstructer you know.
I'm so glad that video is getting traction. The more people that see it, the better.
When I went and asked my pastor about these things, he also admitted that he knew, but chose not to bring those things up because it would sow confusion in the congregation. Before I left the meeting, he asked me not to tell anyone from the church what he had said.
Coming from Mormonism, the coverup is what drives people out! I was very good at mental gymnastics and had I not felt lied to, I probably would have stopped questioning just like with so many other issues.
Yeah, that's what broke me. Years before I had defended the Book of Mormon against critics who said that Joseph had pulled the words for the Book of Mormon out of a hat. I chuckled and smugly explained about the Golden Plates and how he had translated off of those. I thought they were so silly to say such anti-mormon lies!
I knew about polygamy, Joseph marrying other men's wives, Masonic influence in the temple ceremonies and a whooooole lot of other problematic issues. And I had been carefully indoctrinated to them all. But then I read the Gospel Topics essay admitting that Joseph used a seer stone in a hat to translate the Book of Mormon and I was absolutely done.
@@squeakhawk01 What objection can you make against polygamy that would disqualify all polyarmous relationships? If they are consenual, I don't see the problem. I could sort've see an special case were doing it with some else's wife would be okay, and that's if the husband has a cuck fetish and the wife, a cheating fetish. But I imagine those are extremely rare. And the thing about cults is that the followers will be okay with basically any leadership madate due to indoctrination. So I don't think religious groups are a healthy place to practice any of these things. A partner needs to be okay with refusing and relgion doesn't take rejection well.
@connorgrynol9021
Yeah, but how consensual could it have honestly been if the “prophet” of your religion wants your wife and the overarching idea is “what the prophet says goes!”?
@@loganleatherman7647 right, so the problem is not the behaviour but the cause of such behaviour. But the other comment framed the behaviour as problematic.
@@connorgrynol9021 I would hope that given the context of my statement that it would be abundantly clear that I was referring specifically to the way polygamy was practiced by the Mormon church (and still is in fundamentalist offshoots such as the FLDS). In that case, as is the case with so many male dominated religions, it was practiced in a way that essentially stripped choice away from women and even men who weren't part of the patriarchal power structures. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with polygamous relationships, per se, but I think it is way too easy to abuse such relationships if you live in a patriarchal society that values power over consent.
Saitans guide to the Bible was fantastic
*is
Satan's guide to the bible sure did a good job of kicking the online apologetics hornet's nest.
And I will love it forever for that.
Thank you Paul! You were a huge part of my deconversion during lockdown. I appreciate your content and this video was no exception. Great stuff!
Also appreciate the use of the Letterkenny clip. YEW!
I learned more about Christianity, Catholicism, and religion in general AFTER I stopped believing. My faith had always been shaky but I was told to believe anyway, lest I tempt eternal damnation. Channels like this have been invaluable to me and my own edification.
Dang, I’m sorry that you didn’t have anyone to encourage you to dig into your faith. I knew a friend who, like you, had a church just tell him to “just believe” and became an atheist. He later tried church again (a new church) and found faith because they actually challenged him to research and evaluate his beliefs and faith. It stinks to have people with good intentions say, ‘have faith’ to do a bad job of helping others have faith. Rip
I remember that Satan's guide popped up on my feed too and I just had to watch it. It was very very well done, after I finished I went on their channel only to be massively disappointed that they are new and that was basically their first video.
I think it's such an amazing video as well because it basically puts into 1 video the overall of what made the large majority of us start turning from Christianity, the feeling of deception we experienced as we found out that everything they told us were either straight up lies, overstatements or misrepresentation of facts or people. The requirement of that kind of dishonesty in order to keep people from leaving, is really telling.
It took them a really long time to create the video-hence it being the only video.
I for one am looking forward to the Large Hadean Collider coming online and finding the goodon and its anti-particle the evilon. It will make objective measurements much easier!
Hopefully it will also find the force-carrying particle of the Apologetics Field or, as it is more commonly known, "the delusion bozo-on."
Goodon ya. 😅
Satan's guide to the Bible is such a good video that I really need more. So well done.
Is this a joke😊😅
The way they pointed out the takeover of Canaan & then bringing out the scholars to refute the "story" in the bible -- that was great. 😊
Why "take" the land by force? When they could simply move there,
Seems Satan's narrative struck a nerve …
This is the second-best review of Mike Winger's rant against biblical scholarship featured in "Satan's Guide to the Bible."
(Mind you, at least @Paulogia and Brady managed to get through more than 5 minutes of Mike.)
Anyhow, nicely done, both of you.
Der Gedanke, dass jemand ein ganzes Mike Winger Video schauen kann, lässt mir das Blut in den Adern gefrieren. Vielen Dank für die illustre Runde auf Ihrem Kanal.
@@CafeteriaCatholic Vielen Dank. To be clear, I did not watch the entire video, only the first 40 mins where "SATAN'S GUIDE" is featured.
(Also, my German sucks.)
@@DrKippDavis I couldn't resist after I heard six scholars blaming poor old Gary Habermas for not citing german scholarship. ;)
Give the devil his due👹
I thoroughly enjoyed this! I had to watch it twice. Thanks for sharing.
There are THREE empty tombs of Jesus in Jerusalem: the Talpiot Family Tomb, Gordon’s Tomb and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. ADDITIONALLY, there is one in Kashmir India and another in Shingo, Japan. Looks like some sort of franchise to me. RockOn, Paul and Brady.
In the original Abraham and Issac story,
The sacrifice was completed.
There was no rescue.
22:59 I think a point commonly mentioned such as right here is a bit misunderstood by people like mike making it. From my (albeit small) knowledge of Philosophy, if all morals come from God, then morality is still subjective, the subject in this case being the proposed god
Yep. And it baffles me how every apologist using the moral argument fails to notice this.
17:04 : "For the Night is Dark, and Full of Terrors".....wait, wrong Holy Book........😅
The Lord of Light seems like a cooler god.
@@jackskelington7377 But both demand child sacrifices (when I heard this, I couldn't help but think of that episode where Shireen Baratheon was sacrificed 😓)
Daniel was written after the so-called prophecies. I didn't know that, luckily my worldview is not wrapped up in a very flawed book.
Nice call out to Mr. Deity. Thanks for that! I'm a big fan of that guy.
Not a full flerf face palm, but at 16:00 when mike talks about telling kids facts like it's a bad thing to know the facts, and "just trust me" as if the Satans video was telling them to just trust him. Like he goes over the passages that back up what he is teaching to those kids. I know it is coming when mike is on, but it still never fails to baffle me the idiotic nonsense that spews out his pie hole.
god: "I hate human sacrifice"
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST WAS A HUMAN SACRIFICE AND THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE IN CHRISTIANITY HOW COULD YOU NOT SEE THE FUCKING IRONY THERE???????
Or maybe they lied to you and Jesus was murdered for being a traitor to Rome, and Paul flipped it the truth.
@@mickeydecurious I mean Jesus never existed, but either way of course they lied. It's just really weird to assert that god doesn't condone human sacrifice and yet believe jesus was one and the one that matters the most
@@Soapy-chan
I think they're weird in general 🤷🏼 I see your point though it's like they call God a liar, because they feel dirty inside... Like I said they're weird 😀
And who said there isn't nuance to Jesus being a sacrifice? The Bible affirms again and again the POINT of Jesus's sacrifice. So with all that said, do you understand what I mean by nuance?
@@Joshua_Cline What is the nuance? He is a human sacrifice for our sins. god accepts that. Christians accept that.
Paul I died laughing at ur “subtle” timing and usage of the Simpson’s “neeeeeerd”!!
I always feel like Mike is really just trying to convince himself about this stuff. His arguments are always so desperate.
Great video guys!
Another reinforcement that is improbable to be religious and intellectually honest
I feel like Mike purposely misses the point of the stuff he responds to. He always attacks things tangential to the point, and not the actual point
This seems to be true of everyone. It's hard to see the other side and how to address them.
You're being kind by stating that he would do that sort of thing on purpose. It's Hanlon's razor in full effect.
@@chet666 it's just my personal opinion, I'm not saying he's definitely doing it. His style of "debunking" is full of "yeah but's" and well poisoning. It's my opinion that someone would not do that on accident
@@Chrismas815 I think it's motivated reasoning. He is moved to respond in this way because he believes these things so deeply. I don't think he's being consciously dishonest.
Even as a Christian I didn't understand the transfiguration asfar as them recognizing Moses and Elijah whom they'd never met or seen
Man! I used to Love the Cross Movement! Met/saw them at a Black Men's conference in Detroit years ago! Glad to see he's out.
A coworker recommended me your channel if I wanted to explore more of my critical thinking side. Found myself asking important questions and understanding both views. Excellent video
Next time, Mike will explain how Legolas kept switching weapons so darn fast.
why not? Mike is already knee deep in fiction.
Paulogia, wow, this was great and 'Ichapod', Brady Goodwin, was excellent I'll happily sub. As for the Mr. Deity bits, Brian is also great. He's complimented you, too. The tomb is a silly idea. But then, I think the story is pretty inane and silly from Genesis to Revelation.👍💙💙💙🥰✌
Yep the cover-up can be more devastating than the crime just ask the people who were involved with Watergate.
Really look forward to checking out Brady's content!
It comes full circle I used to listen to Cross Movement a lot back when I was a devout Christian, now here I am some 20 years later as a former Christian listening to Phanatik, also a former Christian.
In Mormonism, we'd use the 1 Corinthians phrase "milk before meat" to justify keeping troubling details on the down-low until people are already fully committed (or, more often, just permanently).
Yeah, that first trip to the temple for endowment can be a shocker.
EPIC!!!!! ❤❤❤
💪🏾
Great job reviewing this Paul
BRADYYYYYYYYYYY you made it to the Paulogia channel! Congrats!
I just discovered Brady on a year-old Harmonic Atheist episode yesterday, and he is indeed somebody I will gladly invest my time listening to in the future. 👍
Thanks & Brilliantly laid out and explained, as always, Paul. Cheers🥃.
Humankind created the concept of "god", ergo....humankind created morality....all by itself. No "god" necessary.
Morality is an emergent phenomenon of evolved social creatures- in question: humans. Not "god".
@@marcomoreno6748 Pretty sure I just said that.
thanks Paul for diligently linking the references in your vids. Makes for interesting rabbit holes that can suck-up a whole sunday :-)
That video is incredible 🙌👏 excited to hear you talk about it
Hate the excuses for sacrifice. “Oh, but he told them to sacrifice animals instead of people at some point.” Why the fudge did he need anything to be killed and sacrificed? It’s ridiculous.
He could’ve just forgiven us like a loving father would do. No sacrifice necessary
Goodwin 15:13 new scripture!
So must feel good lying to so many and thru actually fall for it. Your video was an actual joke. It’s sad Paul is feeding right into it.
Not only was the daughter the one who opened the door, it was God who planned and was in control of who opened the door. She had no choice but to be the 1st to open the door.
God did thus favor KNOWING it was her who would open the door 1st.
Oh Lord forgive me the most grievous of sins, upon seeing the evidence I reach a different conclusion than the seminarians. 😅
That’s a bigger sin than blaspheming God.
Maybe the pope can absolve you. Maybe.
Ichapod is an amazing addition to the show. Gonna check him out now.
Name one lie Satan told in the entire Bible...
He just tells it how it is, suffers for telling mankind the truth by being cursed and just leaves never elaborating.
Satan is a badass and is the actual savior of mankind.
As Jesus says, Satan was a liar from the beginning. Contrariswise, the best English translation of what God said is as follows: "On the day you eat of it [the forbidden fruit], to die you shall be dying". In other words, he, Adam, she, Eve, and their descendants would enter the death state. Satan denied that warning was valid, but of course, God was telling the truth, and Satan was lying.
"Let God be true, yet every man a liar."
The snake was not Satan. People ascribed that to it at a later date. You claim to know the exact translation yet have fundamentally failed.
@@joshuaabels6066: Do not be obtuse. Of course, the great adversary and deceiver Satan, as delineated in "The Unveiling of Jesus Christ", o.k.a. The Book of Revelation, is shown to be the dread serpent of Eden. Don't let perverse egotistical scholars, always arguing for every novelty but scorning the straightforward readings of the Scriptural texts, lure you away to your doom.
@@ColinWrubleski-eq5sh are you saying Satan was a man? And why would I trust your translation over the other thousands of translations?
I chuckled my way through the original vid. Great to see you do a response to this one. Keep up the good work.
Love your content
If Mike didn't blatantly miss the point, he wouldn't have a channel to post too
Listening to this, I suddenly realized we don't have many witnesses to the empty tomb, even. The authors don't have direct evidence of the guards talking about it, the women said nothing. So who made any actual claims, that the authors could have theoretically interviewed?
good point
Given the gospels recording Jesus's conversation during his temptation, we know that the authors included parts of the story that they very much could not have verified. So guessing that's what happened when the guards were discussing the empty tomb with the clergy, it's not unreasonable
Brady! Nice collaboration.
The resurrection story is a double metaphor that should never be taken literally.
The same applies to most other stories including Santa Claus - metaphorical, this is what the church hides.
Mike is so triggered, and I love it 😅
And I'm here for it. Thank you 🙏🏽
You guys phrased somwthibg really well thats bothered me for years. When people pose arguments in these discussions, (This goes for Christians and atheists alike,) they act like points that they make are unquestionable and they dont prepare for a response
So where was the ram in the bramble for Jephtha's daughter?
Also: just who or what else did Jephtha expect to come running out of his house? His dog, maybe? Frankly, I'd object to killing even that. And Jephtha isn't even all that brave. He killed his own child to evade God's wrath, not to show devotion.
Mike is in full defence mode. ^^
Good to see a shoutout to Mr. Deity. Anyone who hasn't checked out his channel definitely should.
Great dissection and video! Beautifully done.
Dream team-up!