PPG Envirobase Update
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- Опубліковано 29 чер 2022
- It's been a rough run in the last year using PPG Envirobase, here are a few things I've been doing recently.
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You Nailed it Gunny.
Always something to learn from your content,
Even if I'm not spraying water base.
Give Thank's Gunman.
Blessed Love !!!
Love the honesty and you do what works my man! Thanks for sharing!
Hey Gunny, I love what you do and what you say. Stay true to yourself mate. You aren't doing anything wrong. Regardless of what anyone says you do you and that is all that matters.
Your content is awesome mate. I hope you don't receive negative feedback for this or any of your posts. One of the reasons I follow you is because you're not afraid to tell it how it is.
That black turned out awesome!
It'd be cool if you made a "Gunman DYI" chart in a downloadable PDF, showing the percentages and ratios you like.
That way other PPG Envirobase painters could post it at their mixing stations.
Thanks for the video Gunny!
I have nearly finished making a massive vid. Top 10 PPG Paint Tips vid. I will include all the tips in writing in the description so people can come back or even copy and print like you say
Love the idea Steve!
@@TheGunmanChannel
Very cool, thanks!
Love the honesty buddy, been following for years and thank you for not being a massive ego. I agree with the basecoast idea, I have found where I used to do 3 coats, I now do 5 lighter coats. Seems to stop the shrinkage a fair amount. Also, with the clear, you are 100% with the orange peel, and I hate it! I have lately been heating it up a bit more (like a HS Clear) and it's nearly there but that could lead to other issues. I hate boil even moreso, so I haven't tried extra thinners as yet because unlike to pour it on on the 2nd pass. Thanks for the tip though, I'll give it a crack mate.
Great job Gunney, after 40yrs painting in the UK, (packed up for a year now), but still enjoying your content and gun review’s. I still have my guns, hard to part with them 😁
Thanks man, keep doin what you do. Very helpful and appreciated.
I'm just learning and I've only done solvent based. Wild they can make a water based paint that holds up over time like solvent. I've learned a lot from you, thank you.
nice work Gunman, loved it
Always some of the best if not top tier work.... advice and experience is not easy, keep on with the videos and pride in the trade I always look forward to your point of view🤙🤙
awesome job Gunny love watching all your vids very informative mate 👍 👌
I've gone the different way,.Less reducer , less coats .Keeps it shine more🇬🇧
Love your videos, it’s been over 30 years since I’ve held a gun and that was acrylic lacquer so it’s a big learning curve with the 2k
There is no way I could try it without your videos, (I’m restoring my Grandfather’s EH Holden )
Best of luck with the EH mate. You'll love the results with 2pack. I also learnt with Acrylic and then went 2 pack and would never go back.
Been spraying envirobase for over 10 years. I reduce everything @ 30% (20% T494 10% T492) 4 thin coats dry faster than 2-3 heavy coats. Add T493 @ 5% to dry faster but it'll harden any left over paint.
It's strange that the reps don't recommend this, because it's the best way to stop die back
End result matters Gunny! Often more than one way to get there, and as someone once said "do what works for you" (sound familiar?).
I worked at a shop with waterbase (Lesonal) for a year back in 2016ish. While the system had it's merits, the relative lack of speed, hiding power & long drying times took all the fun out of the process. A solvent basecoat on properly tinted primer works fast enough to shoot clear a couple of minutes after laying a single wet coat of base. Working on commission, this means hourly wage on new panels quadruples.
Nice, was coming to see the enviro application, but the clear info was good to get.
I still haven't got my head around water, or how much difference the simple water base side of paint work can be of genuine use, either to me, personally or the environment (why it was introduced, yeah ?).
I PDR and do small panel / paint at home, no booth, so will probably never really have a desire to move from solvent base.
But in my brothers shop in Brissy, he recently went from Protec all solvent, to Debeers with waterbase.
I did a few weeks painting for him a couple of months ago, and did my first water repair paint job on a silver, and man, the way they no longer colour match, the 1 bar drop coat, seems so foreign to me !
Mostly I did 2k project resprays that trip, and boy, 2 coats of the Debeers 2K and wow, so freaking nice :)
So in a few weeks I'm back up, but this time I'm getting thrown in the proverbial deep end, painting for a few weeks while the painter's on holidays.
Debeers rep booked to come and spend a few days with me, and looking forward to giving water a good go.
Will go check out some of your library and see what I can find about the PPG water, and how it might help me prep for this trip, at least not look like a complete noob, lol :)
Good on ya gunny
hey looks good man have to agree sometime a little more reducer can give you a more smoother clear when you lay it down cheers man
Viscosity cup is one of your most reliable ways to sort out sprayability. Thinner coats dry faster. My experience if you get too wet on the first pass it will dry really poorly and slow. Probably water staying in the film making your die back. I had similar issues with Spies. Good job making adjustments mate 👍
Great Video! Phillip Hall
Mate you explain yourself so well and you're a perfectionist that is key for me I wish you could respray my hilux here in south australia!
My mate has a shop in Adelaide, he wants to get out of painting kitchens and move to cars. Stars may align one day.
I know what you mean we use ppg clear coat at are work place doing tractor panels and this stuff is thick and just stays there on the panel
Been using medium thinners but now using slow and works better
back when i sprayed envirobase we would replace 5% of the reducer with dx103 to help with drying. so in your case it would be 25% T494 and 5% dx103
Well I hope PPG listens and takes your information as a help! Whenever a manufacture starts to say you have to do this or that to get their product to work that's a bad sign. Let's hope they listen!
Companies taking more & more solvents out of clears & paints….telling you not to add solvents…..answer is put them back in……good work gunny 💪
We use T492+T494 at my shop it helps, but the paint still never dries completely/properly. Die back is still an issue here and there. I've only used PPG Envriobase, so I have no reference for other brands or types. But this is good info thank you
T492 will help with die back it's designed as a performance additive what it does is pull the latex together in the paint and tighten everything up, in regards to you over reducing the clear would that not affect film weight and in turn possibly run into adhesion and gloss problems down the road.
Hey gunny on metallics we used 20% reduction and 30% on pearls. Also they make i want to say t492 if im not wrong and we use it here in texas for humid climate it helps push the water out to dry.
I looked into it when someone else recommended it but they don't have it in Australia 😬
Also i do hit my blend areas and blend panels with a light coat of reduced t490 but dont hammer it on it can darken the panel once you clear
Hey gunney love your vids bro been spraying ppg products for 26yrs last 10 yrs has been envirobase. Do you have 520 or 530 clear available to you there? Also for quick jobs ppg is bringing out a new version of dc2000 for the envirobase which dries in 10 minutes. 520 or 530 clear with slow reducer lays down smooth. Keep up the great work brother
Have any of you car guys seen a drop in quality with paint?
I’m a cabinet sprayer by trade. Since corona virus and solvent shortages I see a difference in the quality of paint, especially Polyurethane products.
Not to say I haven’t over come the issues but it’s more hard work!
This video reminded me of the struggles 😁great vid gun man
I just thought it was PPG.
Naw, here in the States, ppg set recommendations were
Solids-10
Mets-20
Mid coat-30.
Which all those had to be bumped up to get a 23 sec reading. I don’t know why where your at they had those backwards. I know the computers come preset so they may have thought that’s what it should have been. Yo also can redivide the reduction rates on the computer.
I really love your work ethic Gunny you say it how it is, your not a yes man and you stay true to yourself. If there is a problem with something you will point it out and find a solution with some out of the box thinking which are all good qualities to have, I'm really pleased you finally broke the PPG system in to how you like it👊💪👍
I hope things are going well after our little chat on Insta mate and you have made the right decision for yourself, good luck mate🙏👍
Have you tried 8131 deltron clear, it’s what I use and it’s the best clear I’ve ever used by a long way. Never once had dieback.
I’m using envirobase base using T494 at 20% on most colours I believe but I’ve got the touch mix ultra which is a nice bit of kit if you haven’t used it yet. I always follow the tech sheets but we are in the UK so different humidity etc. I also have a Walcom Thermodry so that does also make a difference.
I’m just a bit surprised you had so many issues as I’ve have had literally none at all with PPG but I’ve only ever used PPG products. I used to use Max Mayer prior to envirobase. I use a mix of guns as well it’s fetish I have Walcom, Iwata, Devilbiss and I do want to try a Sata
Hey man, everything you said and done is the exact way I feel right now. I recently moved shops and spraying ppg for my first time and only been a painter for less than 2 years. First couple came out not too bad but a week after everything goes to shit. Getting what u saying "solvent boil" but it's really just base not drying/putting too many coats causes clear to not lay nicely. I take passion in my work just like you do and is very upsetting to deal with results like this cus we know we can do better. I started spraying standox when I first started and never had much issues with the base/clear besides runs. Sprayed cromax after I changed shops and ran into the issue as PPG, orange peely, very dry, looks pebbly. Fixed it by over reducing but it's still a hit or miss with the clear, it's never the same, different every jobs. Hoods/roofs are the worst. Then over to PPG and problem continues. I'm slowly giving up but watching your videos makes me stay motivated!
All true mate, that clear just doesn't flow at all!! And the base sucks the life out of the clear. I have a big video coming next week, Top Ten PPG Paint Tips vid so keep an eye out for that one
@@TheGunmanChannel yeah, and with a cross draft booth and unstable heat in the booth is terrible as that's what I'm using now. You get that issue?
@@jfw852 I just started a new job this week, back on Standox and it's night and day difference.
Man good job!! You must love it, missing the standox life
Piss
Poor
Gloss
I used it for decades in the 90's early 2000's and we always fought die back. We eventually figured it out by switching to Spies!
Oh pj
Ohmsyou
O I’m
Oh wow I’m. No
Painters prefer glassrit😂😂
Gunny that has come out so nice and smooth I just want to swim in it just give it a ripple, bloody love that finish so clean and glassy 👌👌👌👌💥
same thing with the paint not drying properly happen to me but not any more
PS. What's the defect in the paint on the bonnet at 6:49 ?
Looks like silicone spot or other contamination, but could it be related to the extra thinned down clear ?
Salute 👍🏿 😎
I’ve never been able to show dye back in photos or videos either
Have you had any experience using the EC520 or EC530 clear coat? I’ve been having issues with orange peel and I’m wondering if adding more reducer will help.
At the end of the day, if you’re getting great appearance, adhesion, and mil thickness, everything should be fine. The problem that shops run into is man hours, and more material to make things look better. I would do a cost and time analysis with Standox, or another paint line to see if a switch would be more profitable. I used Standox, RM, Sherwin Williams, Lessonal, PPG Envirobase & Shopline. Myself and the shop made the most money with Standox. I got more done, and worked less hours.
10 to 12 % 492 and 20 to 30 % 494 best thing I've found. Also try some 493 if you wanted. Not what I liked but you could
Slow reducer + Slow hardener and a decent spray gun makes flatter finishes
That's the one bruv ! 😀👌🏽,Who cares about what they say ,stick with what works.
I find with a lot of UHS Clears and solid colour top coats you have to scrap the recommendations for mixing as a lot of them are on the data sheet to comply with VOC regulations
I use Lechler megalak and it’s thick as fuck but if I over thin it by double what it’s says I get great results and the gloss level is great
In the middle of changing my paint scheme from Ocotral to mipa and mipa clears so I’ve got a lot of trial and error going on atm
Great to hear your opinions man 👍
You nailed it....
Also if we run out of 494 we use straight 492 in a pinch on a black bmw color code 475 and no issues it dried fine
They don't even have 492 in Australia!!! So stupid 🙄
Does more reducer mean more coats,?
Not being a painter just love to learn, I have a question. If you use water borne paint, is there water borne primer and clear that are all used in the job? I suppose I am asking can you mix and match types of materials?
No, the clears and primers are still solvent based 2k polyurethane paint. But they're the same clears and primers you use for the solvent basecoat.
Always had a nightmare getting my phantom back commodores refinished some absolutely horrible colour matches especially one complete disaster by custom coatings in Auckland
Most colours are bad in PPG from my experience. The Spectro is horrendous. Standox or any Axalta systems colours are top of the line
I put the t492 in every color I spray. Helps harden the base a little. I reduce 10% with 492 and 10%494 every color
They don't have it in Australia 😔
iv used the nexa system for the past 5 years its the same as envirobase we use 10% reducer and 10% adjuster in in our base for pretty much anything and ya i heard guys used to have issues before they got the adjuster, the only reason it will die back is the base isnt dry enough just leave the blowers on for a few extra minutes between coats if you stack it it never fully dries the tricoats are the worst. your tech sheets sound completely different from ours in north america as blender is always recommended . see if you can get ec520 and 530 clears they suck to polish if you need to but work fantastic over envirobase.
I'm leaving this shop next week. I hope I never use PPG again 😀
@@TheGunmanChannel oh got good offers gunny? Its sudden to see ure leaving ur job as u always love working at ur currently work place due to good management. Anyway wish you all the best and pls continue to provide us video content as learning won't ends.
You should start your own shop again bro plus the content you made from the last time you did that was great!
One day I would love to, I think it will happen, I'll know when the time is right.
@@TheGunmanChannel yeah bro that content was sick and I think it could really boost the channel and your love for it again
What can of gun you useing
Looks like a pain to put a coat on. Have to push it.
Hey Gunny. Have you milled your jobs. If you are reducing your clear an extra 30% you are also reducing you film build 30%. I wonder if you are seeing some under spray cause of low milage. Just a thought.
He's not reducing it an extra 30% in total just an extra 30% of the called for reducer. Equivalent to about 6.5% extra reducer in the clear mix as a whole
Exactly what Ash said.
If it works and comes out well thats the main thing, i would trust your opinion over someone that does not actually spray every day
I am a little embarrassed it took me so long to finally get half decent results with PPG, but I got there. And then I quit my job last week 😂
@@TheGunmanChannel wow
@@TheGunmanChannel i thought you really like that shop ?🧏🤷♂️
I don’t think you should be over reducing clear; it will effect the gloss level and its durability, why don’t you try a slower hardener and reducer
That's the only way to get it to go on without orange peel for daaaaaays. I tried slow reducer, but this clear just doesn't flow at all.
Gee that gun sprays nice.
Haven't the other painters in the paint shop gave you tips or are they still having issues
They don't even say good morning to me. Very sad people.
@@TheGunmanChannel ffs. Because they are intimated by the gunman
@@adampye905the dude must be hard to deal with, he quit this shop because for ALL his experience he couldn’t figure out the EASIEST paint system 😂
I think the thing is the ppg stuff is just straight up ketchup. Totally bullsh*t imo. I have had this too. The clear always dies back on me just like you have shown in the video, but only if the repair needs more coats to cover.
Love your channel..PPG PISS POOR GLOSS.. That product self destructs lol
Haha so true
Do you ever paint single stage paints?
Not often mate
T492 and T493 go together typically and work great ! Try to get your hands on them and I think you’ll like the results a lot ! But I’ve never had problems with any drying problems or die back here in America I love the system other then the blues not covering good but the reds cover very well for me
Over here in the netherlands the gas prizes are through the roof and they are pushing you towards using airdry clears we use cromax so the paint rep came out to give a demo the first job was ok not terrible but not great . The second was an absolute disaster a bonnet bumper and fender the clear just would not flow it came out chunky and peely i never pumped it on that heavy to even get it to flow it was nuts the paint rep said it will flow out it did not he also blaimed the pots and gun so i got a the 3m pps pots and a dv1 . He came out the second time because we complained about the garbage clear and it still was a bad quality clear there is no telling when it runs off your panel it has pretty bad orange peel and it is very hard to make a spot repair with it . But anyway i tryed it myself last week and it left out the elastic additve wich you have to use on plastic parts and it work a lot better i tryed to break clear by bending the bumper afterwards to see if you realy need the elastic aditive and it held up just fine
I have been making over 6 figures using EHP easy for over 8 years USD. I was actually a master certified StandoBlue painter as well but color match is king, Axalta is trash, it’s color matching and variable on color changing on what you get on Sata vs Iwata is CRAZY
👍 super
I found the best solution for ppg
Is call the rep
Tell him to bring a trailer to the shop
Pick up the rubbish paint
Replace it with standox
Man that looks like a real hassle to use. Ive been out of the trade for too long now, but was painting for 17 years and was never a fan of PPG solvent, and the waterborne looks even worse. I only do one or two jobs a year now but thank f#$k solvent systems are still available.
I see 3 fisheyes EEK!
I grew up on Glasurit 90 line. Every single time I use any other brand I don’t like it. Only bad part is it’s slower but I paint fancy cars so it’s fine with me. I hate ppg, every single product I’ve used from them is sub par in every way besides speed
It's a great BASF line of paint but it's so expensive.
@@drcornelius8275 that is a great point. whenever i buy my clear it still surprises me ten years later. but if your painting the nicest cars it pays for itself
Anyone know what age you can start your appreciate ship
14 years and 9 months in Australia, that's the legal age to work. I don't know anyone who started without finishing year 10 though
@@TheGunmanChannel alright cheers
@@TheGunmanChannel do you reckon you could still get one if you haven’t passed year 10
@@hitachitrains1181 most likely. Are you in Australia? Melbourne
@@TheGunmanChannel yeah Melbourne
Wait until all the clear starts flaking off! Because that will happen
I've seen that!!
After many years off painting i've always followed the data sheets but on numerous occainsons had to tweak the process too get the final result . Some systems are not suited for different enviourments. jim uk
I demoed every clear they could throw at me for a period of time trying to get us to switch over from sikkens. Even their slow reducers couldnt lay down nice in winter time. Truly the main reason they did not get our business. Even their own tech reps couldnt get it to lay down nice and melt in like it should. I would never even work at a shop that uses anything PPG related
Me either
I’ve used sikkens,BASF,Axalta and PPG waterborne paint and there’s no such thing as a perfect system they all have their ups and down
How did u like the sikkens? I'm about to start at a new shop that uses it
@@Sam-kk3gu the pigment in the base coat is very weak and it does not cover well, the trick with sikkens water is to alway spray your base over the value shaded sealer no matter how small the primer spot or you will never get coverage and see sand scratches
U are the painter/the artist,U are allowed to break rules.Treat the ruling as a guideline.
I don’t known who the fudge told you not to use a wetbed, don’t listen to them. 🤦♂️It’s a no wonder you had so much issues with it. I used wet bed on my hard met., & tri coats.
Gunny, piss on the haters! Love watching you paint. It is mesmerizing.
I’ve been spraying envirobase for a year now after spraying cromax and sikkens. Absolutely don’t like the waterborne sand the worst color matches I’ve saw. Some of them need two drop coats to lighten it and others don’t. Sometimes the chip deck doesn’t even look like the same color mixed
Why can't paint companies use one name for their products it would make it much easier, surely they must understand that with the Internet now its a global market.
Ppg has lost the plot!
Waterborne is a joke! solvent all the way👍
i went from glasurit to this and have the same problems, most overrated system out there i believe
In my personal opinion PPG is the worst paint I’ve ever worked with it’s so bad
You probably haven't used Concept No-Mix then
Or Sherwin Williams
Baslac is the worst hands down
Go use debeers for a while and tell me ppg is shit. Apples for apples comparison too, it's a latex based water with polyurethane clears. Mottle almost impossible to control, pops, dies back. Ppg ain't perfect but there's plenty of worse paints around.
You must be a Nason level painter 😂