Can better cooling fix a TERRIBLE 3-phase VRM
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- Опубліковано 14 лип 2020
- Can you fix a terrible 3-phase motherboard VRM by adding better cooling? WIll a cooler power delivery result in better overclocking?
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I would definitely want to see this on a cheap b450 board with no heat sink overclocking a ryzen 9 add some heat sinks and some 5000 rpm fans and see what happens
Would probably explode
I would say make sure your home insurance covers catastrophic fires and water damage before you do that.. especially if its a super cheap b450 board. And if your life insurance is all paid up try an Aliexpresss super cheap no name "a320" board and see what happens .. just make sure to stretch and keep a clear and open path outdoors for when you have to run for your life 🤣🤣🤣
Have no heatsink on the ryzen 9 if you want to blow up your street
rtxrt73 yes very true but we use dawid as a lab rat
An OCed 1700 or 2700 would even do the trick. The Asrock X470 mini-ITX board I have has a heatsink and a crappy VRM, and if I push the voltage any higher than 1.43 set in BIOS, it will thermal throttle pretty quickly. HWinfo has a nice way of telling you when you are throttling. It just won't tell you if it's the CPU or the VRM.
One day a Dawid experiment is going to work flawlessly and yield amazing results on the first try...and I’m not going to know how to react.
Haha!! To be honest, I also would not know how to react. The word denial comes to mind.
@@DawidDoesTechStuff repeat test, repeat test, declare you must be insane.
@@DawidDoesTechStuff 2:45 activate Windows
Pls
"Maybe they're just turning tricks on the street or whatever."
"Oh, Ceezee! Wanna get rammed? I got some RGB that I just can't wait to click into your slot."
Hahaha!! I didn't ever think RGB talk could get me this excited. 😂
OCZ Storage Solutions was dissolved on April 1, 2016 and absorbed into Toshiba America Electronic Components, Inc, which later then became Kioxia.
F
Never thought I’d hear the phrase 'Wankers cramp' being used in a UA-cam tech video, but here we are. You have a way with words.
Dawid claimed to be an expert at Nothing, But I think he is an Expert at Analogy
I just felt like there was no other way to get the message across. 😂
@@DawidDoesTechStuff even though you said you were an Expert at 'Well Nothing" it is why I say you are an 'Expert' at Analogies Dawid
@@shaneeslick I appreciate that. It's better than being an expert at nothing. 😋
WC is no choke- I mean joke.
Love the effort of trying to polish a turd with the little heat-sink, but that was literally the worst AM3/AM3+ motherboard back when it was released. Unfortunately all the heat-sinks in the world can't fix poor power delivery and a bad VRM design lol
Oh for sure. It is complete garbage. The fact that somebody thought it was a good idea to use it for an FX8120 is pretty crazy.
This mod still effective even today. If you buy a cheap MB and add some heatsinks you can get a lot more from it.
@@vitor900000 Still true. Using a Cheap Galax B450M Motherboard with GPU memory heatsinks cut to size and stuck to the mosfets. VRM temps never exceed more than 2-3 degrees above ambient.
The effort you put into it, just for a mere performance boost. I love your channel man. Keep doing this, I never skip a beat of your videos.
It would be great to see a video on cooling the vrm on a b450 motherboard! I’m planning on building a pc soon with a b450m motherboard and I’m thinking of cooling the vrm with raspberry pi heatsinks I have lying around in my house. Great video Dawid!
Just get an MSI board. Can recommend the Tomahawk/Gaming Plus ones, they can handle up to an 3900X without additional tinkering.
Also I recommend to avoid Asrock, their B450 boards are pretty bad. Crappy 4+2 vrm and my particular (it's the Fatal1ty K4) has barely working sound card.
@@michaelmechex I cannot really confirm how bad the VRM is but oh boy the sound car does suck. Well not for output. For output it's fine maybe even good. But for input, nah, it's the worst thing ever. I have the B450M Pro4-F.
@@Polarys_CZ VRM is fine for my base clocked 2600, but that thing cannot handle some of the high end ryzen 7 and 9 cpus, let alone overclocked. My sound card sometimes doesn't output right after boot, I have to re-plug in the speakers while in use to start playing. It never happened with any other source, so I am blaming the sound card.
Not all 3 phase are bad. The asrock b450m pro4 has a high surface area heatsink, doubled components per phase meaning fairly decent overclocking as long as you don't push the highest voltages, two m.2, 4 dimm and is the best motherboard for like 75-80 imo.
It was so smart of you to put that cute lil cooler on the VRM modules - or whatever they're called :D
Gotta love when your wifey can get into the geeky stuff that you do...even - and especially - when she doesn't know all of the nomenclature! My lady loves that it makes me happy, but kind of couldn't care less about it 😂
Dawid's nightmares are in low frame rate and constantly buffering LMAO
Okay well now I know what's going to ruin my sleep tonight. 😅
You can add poor ram configuration to that in future.
Great video Dawid. I actually wanted to do something similar but you answered my question
One of tricks I learned while trying to minimise system temps on the cheap was to completely reverse the airflow in the system starting with the rear case fan. Initially I used a peice of card as a baffle to ensure air was being pushed onto, rather than over, the VRM section board but later I worked out I could get much the same effect simply by running the rear case fan at a higher speed than the (reversed) fans on my CPU HSF (which created enough turbulance to splash air back onto the board). That approach would work a treat with one of those heatpipe heatsinks you're using in this video.
Btw, I expected that reversed airflow setup to have a negative effect on CPU temps but was suprised find the opposite was true, and I was stunned at just how dramatically temps dropped across the board (pardon the pun,) when I flipped my case upside down (which, after flipping it around to get easier access to the ports, left me with a reversed, reverse-ATX system with reversed airflow. 🤨) The things you do in poorly insulated houses during Australian summers...
Yes. Please do another video on like a B450 ds3h or something!
Also, Cheapo A320 boards look like they could use some cooling.
Come here for the crazy ideas and the neat execution. Stay for the awesomeness that is Dawid.
I was honestly looking at VRM cooling options for my retro machine and this was an angle I hadn't considered. I see what you mean about it being thermally saturated, but still a really great idea.
Hope all OK getting dawid withdrawals so been watching all the old videos again
You’re a legend. Great work 🙌
Dawid, i took those old ram coolers they made, mine is a corsair one. anyway i used that and put it over the VRM and temps fell alot it has 3 lil fans and boy they work great
I stuck some heatsinks on my vrms on a cheap board. definitely worked for me. a good old phenom 1055t, managed to get it upto 3.8ghz from 2.8ghz with them on.
I was always interested in doing this on my b350 so I would love to see it done on a b450 but if you could find a better heat sink maybe or thermal glue stuff maybe?
I use thermal glue mixed with arctic mx or similar to glue heatsinks on the vrm
The second you said, "terrible wankers cramp" I smashed the thumbs up
Haha!! There is no other way to discribe the feeling. 😅
I have wondered THIS VERY QUESTION! Thanks Dawid!
Very cool but I wish you had also compared something like Cinebench scores!
Thank you! Been thinking about doing this and after watching this vid I committed and ordered a MSI A520M Pro VH ($60) and a Ryzen 5 5600X now that they're $190. Also ordered 20 VRM Mosfet heatsinks for $7 on Amazon. Can't overclock with this chipset but then again I never do so hopefully performance is much better than my b350m-e and my Ryzen 3 3500X (from chy-nah)
Very interesting video! Yeah I would like to see this done on a cheap B350 or B450 board
Jezy yah that would be cool
Damn, your channel has really blown up, I remember when you had like 16K subs. 👍🏼 you earned it
OCZ went the way of the Dinosaurs. I had that ram in my I7 870 rig back in the day.
Right, I posted on another video yesterday asking about your critique of another VRM setup, so I'm glad I stumbled on this video! I wanted to raise a point-- you're attaching a heatsink to the TOP of the MOSFET package. Most SMD MOSFET packages are attached to large copper planes of the PCB through a metal pad on the BACK of the package. Sometimes you're actually better off attaching heating to the BACK of the PCB to help pull heat away. It would be interesting to try to measure the actual consumed current per MOSFET and figure out the legit current consumption. Then you could actually start to see if these things were really designed well.
Backside fan cooling, very few cases have a mount for it however
OCZ was a brand of Toshiba that was used for some of its solid-state drives before they were rebranded with the Toshiba brand.
Some what. Seeing ocz before being bought made SSD also
INTERESTING!!!!
I'm going to try something about the same with the old 1156 m-board.
Best tech UA-camr. Greetings from Brasil. Love The videos!
I would love to see you water cool it now and bring the temps even lower, You can find VRM/MOSFET waterblocks on aliexpress aht come in 60mm, 80mm, and 100mm lengths.
You know that time you watch a youtube video and can relate to it and feel all good? Well, when I caught a glimpse of the model mb, it wasn't one of those times.
I added some little aluminum heat sinks from vga VRMs with some thermal pads. Running a 3900x on a B450m… will find out how well that works out…
At 0:44 the GPU heard you talking about fixing things on the board and decided to turn the fans on so you wouldn't mess with it :D
I have definitely experienced hitting a very small overclock wall with a crappy am3 + board before just like that.
ThermalRight used to offer custom heat sinks for chipsets , ram, power mosfets (VRM). I Can't find any good options lately . even pure copper micro fin would do wonders. If you need to make your own I used 30-40mm coppen sinks cut to shape from old Xeon coolers. old 771 15mm copper slabs make great Tylersburg i5520 coolers, flat and big. Or an old AMD Enzotech copper cooler cut to shape for a huge north bridge. Can even add mini fan inside like Abit did back w/ the Max3 Fatal1ty.
You did pretty good the turbo range is listed as 3.1ghz base, 3.4ghz full load turbo, and 4ghz at half load turbo. Speed seems to be related to loading so 3.7 was probably as good as it gets while playing a game. I didn't check cpu percentage of use during game play.
Can you do Cinebench test scores? I wonder how much extra rendering performance would you gain?
Im gonna try custom heatsinks on the VRM of this MSI X570-A Pro I ordered. Its just too hot not that it cant provide the power. But as of now before that board arrives I'm stuck with a similar situation with my 5600x on my A320 S2H. Not gonna bother with cooling the vrm tho it never breaks 50c haha. Another way to get more mhz out of the cpu would be to reduce RAM clocks.
OCZ used to bee brilliant. Had their PSU for about 6 years. Now its in my mates PC and the 750W unit is running his 10850 and 1080TI lovely.
If you got any dead motherboards sitting around for socket 775, am3,am2+ etc..
You might be able too move one of those vrm heatsinks too this motherboard too get some mounting pressure, but otherwise not worth it in general.
I was able to run a fx 8350 at 4.8 stable on a GA-78LMT-usb3-r2 using a similar m.2 heatsink and a 90mm fan, which surprised the heck outta me. But yeah. VRMs are gonna dictate a big chunk of the performance you can pull from those AM3+ chips.
Would you post a link of where u got the heating from? I actually want to buy one for an experiment 🤔
holy smokes. never been so soon on a new yt video
Me to
Cant you connect the vrm cooler to the thicker plastic of the cpu fan on top to get the mounting pressure?
I haven't seen previous videos, but has undervolting the CPU had any effect on performance, if power delivery is the bottleneck?
You could try with thermal glue, i would like to see a vrm thermal fix on a more gaming board, a b450 would ne perfect.
Or thermal tape. Though I can't speak about either options ability to transfer heat.
Yah
I would be interested in you doing that to a b450 too
You could try hot gluing a plastic pipe to the vrms and run coolant through to draw the heat away.
Thermal putty, copper pipe, and zip ties more likely to actually cool it
What I think you could do to decrease temperatures more is to get a bigger heat pipe to increase thermal conductivity
For the good old Bulldozer series CPU's there was only one solution for a motherboard, get a good 990fx chipset motherboard they came with descent VRM phases and cooled.
"I can't believe Gigabyte didn't think of installing a VRM heatsink on it"
Because they didn't make the M68MT-S2 to run a criminally hot FX-8000 series CPU, David. Heck, I don't even think they designed it to run further than a Quad-Core FX at that, and even then with hot results.
I have a modified Gigabyte 880GM-UD2H that now runs a FX-4100. I still try to think how on earth did Gigabyte EVER expect this thing to run a Phenom X4 or X6 without downright melting - I've run a round of NFS Hot Pursuit with this 4100 and I nearly got an panic attack at the temperatures after just a single race. Other specs included a R9 280 (aka HD7950) 3GB, about 2x2GB Corsair Dominator and a 320GB HDD, as well as a 700W Raidmax PSU (made by Andyson - this thing is tough as nails, being able to power a R9 280 and a i7 2600k.). The only plus I can think of my board against yours, is the fact that mine sports a 4+1 phase setup, not a 3+1 (which, by the way, sounds incredibly stupid.)
noice job dawid
OC-Zedd - Props for the right way of saying things.
hey i found that street corner ocz was pimped out to ..... it is a sub brand of Toshiba
that joke about OCZ turning tricks on the street gets a like from me!
Ah yes a very familiar problem! You saw a lot back in the day that people got FX 8 chips for boards like this, but it ran horribly or even just plain shutdown. A friend of mine still runs a combo like this, but with a quarter of the FX disable so it doesn't crash. XD I don't think that temperature you monitor is accurate though, with the heat "radiation" (most likely just a convective flow tho) it's probably more like 100 to 120 degrees. Which is also more like the temperature when a VRM is going to throttle itself
id love to see if better cooling on a vrm can improve performance on a gigabyte b450 ds3h for example.
“Wanker’s cramp” I’m gonna start using that phrase on every sentence now. I love that phrase lol😂😂
You need more subcribers, "you have the best words" :)
Thank you very much! 😁
Since last video I knew that something was wrong with motherboard. There are no boards for AM3+ CPUs, that support 125 watt chips and don't have heatsinked 3+1 phases or at least naked 4+1 phases. I looked at Giga's website and it seems that board doesn't even officially support anything FX. So, it's likely not supposed to work with FX CPUs and if it does, then it is already strained past its optimal limits. Either switch to Phenom II chip or swap that board, because it is a fire hazard now.
Note about AMD chips: Phenom II chips can actually consume more power than FX chips, but there might be difference in their amperages. Also FX chips have more aggressive Turbo modes and they contribute a lot to obnoxiously high power consumption. It might be a good idea to turn off Turbo.
Thanks for the comment. The whole time I was testing I had Turbo mode turned off. It didn't really work with that motherboard. 😅
@@DawidDoesTechStuff What about other power saving settings? They are likely to be responsible for lowering clock speed to save power. I think that it would be possible to increase fps lows a bit by turning them off.
But either way it's a torture for that board to run FX chip.
@@MJ-uk6lu Yeah, I also switched off the eco mode. That motherboard just couldn't handle anything more. I can't believe iBuyPower thought it was a good idea to pair these two.
@@DawidDoesTechStuff That's why DIY market is where it's at
There is that heatsink for m.2 ssd what has a little fan on the end try that
One thing you can do if possible in the bios, is to disable 50% of the cores.Powerdraw would decrease and give you more headroom for overclock.And better temps aswell.
The world record for overclock on a fx chip is done by only 2 cores.
Someone managed 8ghz on all cores on one of the 6300 I think
Time to try some of these ideas on my Gigabyte B450M Aorus! (Because I realized that it actually has terrible cooling for it's VRMs.)
My first gaming PC introduced me to these VRMs. Oh man did my first gaming PC frustrate me. The PC had a Gigabyte F2A68HM-HD2 rev 1.1 motherboard that was paired with an AMD Athlon X4 860K CPU. The VRMs really limited me on it. The best it seemed to do was about 3.9GHz. Overclocking was just a no-go. Even if the CPU was cool, the CPU began throttling down to 1.7GHz because the VRMs just couldn't take it. It really limited what I could get out of that PC.
It's what made me end up building my own PC. I really didn't like how badly the manufacturers of that PC skimped on parts.
I still have the motherboard and CPU. I am tempted to experiment and try adding some heatsinks to the VRMs to see if that stops the CPU throttling and allows a better overclock. Even though I don't have a need for that PC any more, I am curious to see if adding heatsinks was all it needed.
I have an old 5820k system and I can get the CPU to 4.3Ghz with good temps and voltage. But then the system is unstable. So I guess I need to bump the voltage manually. It still has plenty of headroom. So I want to hook up an AIO and go crazy.
I was kinda hoping you’d give it the Linus Tech Tips treatment and water cool it
yes try it with a b450 and get one of those lil kits of the small heat sinks you can put on each on to make sure they fit, they work better then nothing.
Definitely not a failure. Its certainly proved a concept to further test
Hey Dawid, last week i have been messing on a GA-76-LMT-S2 whit a FX 8350, which is not supported by this motherboard, anyhow, i have managed 4085MHz at 215MHz bus speed, x19 cpu multiplier, for a cpu-z benchmark of 228 single and 1590 8-thread, just FYI in case you make more videos on this one. Aslo i think the cheap B-450 upgrade is an interesting subjet, make it a eXTraordinary one.
Forgot the most important thing, Vcore 1.238v
Try adding that heatsink to an a320 motherboard with ryzen 7 or ryzen 9
VRMs are usually rated closer to 150°C absolute max, 120 sustained long term, and absolutely good to go < 100°C. You'll probably hit stability problems on CPU first with 3 phase power before you hit heat limits.
A bit late on this video as you have hopefully moved on the parts but the crashing is probably form using the base clock to over clock as the north bridge and ht link would become unstable before the cpu. Using the crappy aod uitilty to overclock using the core multiplyer may have been your best bet. As bad as bulldozer is pile driver was a vast improvement (at least in my experience but I've had 2 6100's and 2 8350's got about 400mhz more clock on the pile driver CPUs as well as arch improvements)
The board probably also has no real way to disable apm as it is a pre FX board which limits the power draw of the cpu to it's tdp disabling turbo in aod also disables apm. Also Possibly a reason why power draw stopped rising in the latter tests as you could see throttling in the afterburner overlay if the footage was form the later tests.
Those FX chips needs a boatload of voltage. In comparison at least to Ryzen or other more modern chips. I have a 6300 I wanna mess with at some point.
I have a similar problem with an FM1 motherboard.Can't really call them VRM's but next to the cpu it will go up to very hot and the pc will reboot itself.So he's upgrading so i told him i want his old pc and i want to get thermal pads and heatsink to see if it works.It just for my own enjoyment.
I would like to see an attempt to run games on older DDR3 RAM with say 2 or 3 GB.
i`ve got the cheapest A320 mainboard made(AsRock A320M DGS).It supports max 65W cpu and it still has 7 power phaze design.
Maybe better caps will help with voltage drops on the vrms
I've been wondering about this, you can get basic heat sinks for extremely cheap and sometimes that's all the difference between a $45 and $70 motherboard. EDIT: Seems worth $5 of heat sinks from china to get 5fps out of a cheap build.
I would be interested in a revisit on a b450
When a VRM is this bad what is needs it a water block and probably a ice in the res, but you could also try the server solution (Delta PFC0812DE-PWM fan) and DO NOT put that on a MB fan header, use a molex plug
IIRC AsRock has a REALLY horrible B450 board
if you do get that fan, be sure to get a couple fan grills for it, it is not worth loosing a finger tip
Putting heatsinks on the VRM helps in thermal throttling, especially on warm days. A video render might finish a few minutes earlier if you are a creator. I can see it happing using Psensor and Stress on Linux.
how about you solder new and better mosfets and caps in that VRM solution?
Really would LOVE to watch a cheap B450 motherboard's VRMs getting cooled by this m.2 heatsink!!
Yea
I had an fx 9590 that would randomly crash, it took me like a year to figure out the the vrm on the mobo had been overheating.
im using a H410 and a i9-10900 non K it pulls 270w sometimes
Is there a way to add a heat sink to the VRM on the ASUS Prime H410M-E without damaging the VRM what adhesive to use?
I did run prime 95+occt to draw full power from my psu, my psu has dropped from 12.3V to 11.67V Thus on my Gigabyte B75 D3V, My VRM is on 80-90Celsius while it draws 70Watts to the cpu, but the thermal design is 95Watts. There are only traces on my mobo that cools the mosfets.
did you try using the delta fan
i just watched the gpu fans turn on and off in the backround
It has a 0 rpm mode
@@RhysC0681 no shit
Yeah, no amount of icing can fix a mud cake. Would love to see that heatsink on a cheap b450 board though!
Even 4+1 phase mobos are stretch for 8xxx. Disabling turbo and undervolting with the highest clock it can handle,is the way.
Waiting for that cheapo B450 experiement ;)
Can you please try that on Asrock b550m-itx motherboard? It's the cheapest b550 itx mobo so far but it has tiny heatsink. Thanks!
Nice shirt!
The motherboard I used to have for my fx 8350 was just as bad, throttled my PCs performance, thankfully I'm running a r7 3700x and a msi b450 tomohawk max now :)
disable half the cores gets you more performance i don't know why but i did it on my AMD FX 9590 In a Gigabyte GA 990FX G1 GAMING and yeah it works better gaming its sounds crazy right but it is true when i first heard some one say for me to do this i was like your slap loony but i tried it and the results speak for themselves
Please do try it with a cheap b450 or b360
terrible cooling:u cant stop me
better cooling:hold my termal paste
I think if you don't add airflow, you are wasting much of the potential of the heatsink, and using it like a rechargeable battery instead... With fan on the vrm without heatsink should still be better. And I am very interested in seeing this 3phase on fan+ heatsink cooling, how much more power it can pull for the hungry FX
He's just trying to throw us off from his secret identity as Buildzoid