Boy am I glad my stab victim is frozen in there and that we're out here, and that he's the Medic and that we're frozen out here, and that we're in there and- I JUST REMEMBERED, we're out here.
Stats aside, the best thing about this weapon will always be back stabbing your enemies in front of an NSFW spray and leaving them for the entire server to see that they died down bad lmao.
Spy having something against Pyros to replace the sapper could actually be a good way to change Spy's playstyle a bit, the sapper is only good if there's an Engineer on the enemy team, so having something for when there isn't an Engineer could be pretty neat.
This is why the original Diamondback was considered extremely situational, since getting crits relied on the enemy team having an Engineer in the 1st place.
There was going to be unlock for spy was going to be flame resist item for spy. However it was scrap and the stats went to the darwin danger shield, despite it being not being needed for sniper and just giving a middle finger the pyro who actually aim their flares and/or actually went to get the sniper. Seriously why does most sniper secondary unlocks invalid close range weakness?
@@starmaker75 Sniper, being arguably the best class in the game, having a secondary that shuts down 2 classes is an idea I don't really know how Valve was fine to have in the game.
My idea is a hip flask full of water or non-flammable alcohol. The spy could splash it on himself to put him out, splash it on teammates to put them out, or splash it on engineer buildings to temporarily disable them.
Altough, without its sapper, the sentry become a hard counter to Spy, maybe more than a Pyro. Spy is all about to pick its target before the enemies can react to him. Which is a lot harder when an enemie can't be backstab, has an aimbot with a 360 field of view, and outdamage you by an order of magnitude.
"I'd rather live to fight another day than get 1 backstab" But... That's like the entire spy experience... Get 1 backstab and get deleted from existence.
Yet all the gameplay I've seen from him is exactly overextending and forcing a kill instead of getting out. Seriously, the Spy video gameplay is so bad.
That happens to also be my Pyro strategy. Pick the Jetpack -> fly to enemy's spawn -> get a few kills to slow their progress -> die instantly. It seems pointless, but it does stall the match, especially on Payload, and give the team more time to prep.
As someone relatively new, I'm surprised by spy's LACK of variety. The only real deviations from the base is kunai and gun spy. The class's kit is so same that just using something you have as standard is considered a different playstyle, imagine saying you have a custom car because you can use reverse. I figured by how many games play, spy would've had a counter to most classes at the cost of survivability, like a spy taking out priority targets.
@@wetzel4806The thing that confuses me is that Spy is one of the most popular classes in the game (and 4 weapon slots), yet he doesn’t have many weapons to choose from. There is still a lot they could do with his kit, like make a throwing knife or make a knife that gives the spy better jumping ability.
@@wetzel4806 Trust me, it's not as bad as Heavy where your only playstyles are "any Minigun" or "Fat Scout". You can go Hoovy or make an attempt at KGB crit farming, but the viable way is pretty much just "pick Stock or Tomislav", and the only difference between them is range and DPS.
Unlike other anti-this-class weapons though the spy-cicle doesn't shut down a class's core function. The duration is too small to be a middle finger to Pyro but long enough for the Spy to make plays against the Pyro or get away. It consumes the Spy's most important offensive tool for a brief resistance to the class's biggest counter. A counter that often feels like a boss fight to overcome than an actual counter in that sense. It is an a unique situation compared to the interactions of the other classes that I think perfectly justifies its own existence in that context. It never feels like it exists to screw over the Pyro, from the perspective of the Pyro.
I believe the flame suit was originally supposed to take up your primary actually. That probably would've been way worse, taking away an entire mode of offense just to counter a single class, even if it's a common encounter.
some people get pissed when a spy uses the gun (so far, i've seen it's been from spy players dying to a revolver), because it's like he's gotta be the cool stab dude, and then make montages, or something@@Loyde06
Imo spycicle is what a weapon against your counter should be. Sure it gives you a bit more survivability against pyro but you also lose out on your main source of pick potential if it gets triggered. Unlike sniper, who loses out on... A weapon slot he basically never uses anyway? Which he can pick and choose wether to counter spy or pyro with?
honestly i feel like snipers secondary slot is filled with either bad, stupid, or overpowered weapons. the only real balanced weapons in the slot i can think of off the top of my head is maybe the cozy camper and the stock smg, although im not entirely sure cuz i dont play sniper. jarate: actual free minicrits that can become full crits. razorback: only used to counter one slot on one class. That other smg i forgot the name of: jarate but you actually need to earn the crits. danger shield: basicly just used the counter flare spamming pyros.
I think you underrate the SMG. Pro snipers like Fatmagic use it all the time. It can deal a lot of damage if you have good aim. The backpacks (besides the Cozy) still kind of have lazy weapon designs, though they personally don’t bother me that much.
The neat thing about the spycicle is that the pyros effort burning you are not wasted; by applying afterburn the pyro is keeping their team safe from backstabs
"Hey, was the conspicuous ice statue always there?" "I don't know, but we should probably ignore it even though it gets closer every time we look away"
I'm pretty sure it's an anti-source spaghetti measure, game would probably freak out if it tried to switch to an empty revolver Fun fact, the spy-cicle won't melt in MvM if you've used your sapper, essentially making you fire proof for that duration
There's another aspect to it that makes it a bit better at chain stabbing compared to stock: The freezing sound is much more quieter compared to the visceral death screams of your standard backstab, and the bodies freezing up in place can make some stabs behind people go unnoticed compared to a ragdoll flopping into their FoV.
good example is some rooftops that snipers perch themselves up at, If killed off the right angle their ice statue slides off to the side where enemies look the least and as a result, they lose crucial evidence of the stab
But then again, freezing sound is very distinct, and a experienced player will know there’s a spy killing their team instead of just that a teammate died
Dr. EnforCicle was so broken to play back then and quite fun. Old Spycicle had one more perk back then that also gave silent kill stat like the YER. The fire protection as you stated goes so well with gunspy, but combine that with the old DR survivability, and the old Enforcer damage the gunspy style was straight up just a good consistent DPS class. Getting Kritz as Spy while you just mow down a team was actually quite viable Uber patient for pushes.
I remember when looking at the patches for the Spy-cicle, it mentioned that it used to have a silent kill akin to the YER, supposing that the ice statues would be the warning that there was a Spy; I would like to know how was it back then
That stat wasn't as useful as it is for the YER because the statues are even more of a dead giveaway than stock sometimes, but it's still an iconic part of the Dr Enforcicle loadout.
@@CyrogenicNation Though to be fair at this point, as said in the video, it would be surprising for there to NOT be a spy, hell, they often come in packs of 3 or 4
It was changed because the knife makes this super loud KKSHK!! Sound that defeats the purpose of the silent killer, so they thought it wasn’t much of a “silent” killer.
I honestly always assumed that the stat was only there so that the ice statues didn't scream, it clearly wasn't trying to be sneaky considering it leaves more of a trace than the regular knife does and already has its own distinguishing sound. Whatever the case, I guess they figured it wasn't really a problem and took the stat off in the end.
IIRC the fireproof suit that was tested on Spy was not a Sapper replacement, but a Revolver replacement instead. I believe it was never added because the Devs felt it was unfair for Spy to have basically a hardcounter to Pyros entire kit, so the Spycicle was made instead. Feels like a slap in the face that Sniper got it a couple of years later, _especially_ considering they already gave him an unlock to deal with Pyros burn mechanic in form of Jarate. It should have stayed as a never introduced item.
To not say that Sniper is already relatively good at countering them to begin with since Sniper has a massive range whereas Pyro's range is smaller than Valve's development team.
The true slap in the face was that the Scorch Shit was added alongside all flare guns dealing mini crits to burning targets even later which generated and undeniable NEED for sniper to counter afterburn. And then they didnt fix the Cozy Camper not working against afterburn aimpunch, which would have also nullified the danger shield and made it even more broken. Wait, why the fuck does sniper have so many counter items?
I find it kinda funny that while usually unlocks that counter one class are usually poorly designed, the spy is countered so badly by pyro that this unlock is actually pretty alright lol (i think another thing in its favor is that you lose your main class feature when it melts so it isnt just a get out of jail free card)
a think a secret stat that would be great for spy is to speed up his decloaking time when under afterburn, or other negative status effects like jarate to give u the chance of counter-acting
3:25 Spies were already buffed at base to be a bit better against pyros. Being cloaked halves damage over time effects. That was changed in one of the later updates of TF2.
What i like about spycicle is that it's not just a "fuck you" item like danger shield, since there's an actual trade off for using it. In case of danger shield, sniper still keeps his main weapon - rifle, and it in no way hinders its use. On the other hand, spycicle melts on use, which means spy looses his "main" weapon to escape a bad match up. Kinda lost my thought here but in general it's a lot less frustrating to fight against as pyro
Nice vid! If I remember correctly, another 'upside' this knife used to have (maybe still does) is that it mutes the scream after stab sound effect. In any case, by the most part the spy-cicle is low-key upgrade to stock in my opinion
The biggest issue is how this weapon is designed to counter Pyro, yet it encourages to avoid Pyros entirely because losing your ability to backstab for 15 seconds is pretty annoying.
I do like how fish is using his sniper loadout to appear there and make jokes, it's a nice change from just talking to a mic with info on screen and it's good to see every now and then. Also merry belated Christmas and happy new years.
The Ice Statues would've been ambiguous enough if there was a class capable of freezing enemies to death. So players would've been wondering if it was them or a Spy. Look, I'm trying, Spy's job sucks enough as it does.
I think it's easily the best anti-one-class weapon. It's not like the danger shield where it's one free pass, it's a brief free pass against a spray and pray damage type that also removes your main weapon from you. That's actually a fair trade. The fact the argument is made that fire resistance should be in the base class design says a lot about how meagre the weapon is, lime with most spy weapons
Honestly as someone who plays a lotta pyro im vary glad that spy has something, like its not that difficult to play around but at least they get a fighting chance. Also screw the danger shield
I think your less ranty and shorter videos are where your analysis and script-writing shine. Don’t get me wrong, when I agree with you (and I generally do) it’s a lot of fun to hear you rant, but I think it can inhibit the potential of your videos a lot. This video is excellent :)
I know its not really relevant and hasnt been for years but I kinda wish you gave a brief history lesson on the pre Gun Mettle "Dr. Enforcicle" meta that defined Spy play back in the day haha. For the unaware, the Dr. refers to Dead Ringer, and Enforcicle is Enforcer + Spy-Cicle. Dead Ringer and Spycicle were a good combo to cheat death and detection, and back then the Spycicle was a silent killer like the Eternal Reward is. I think the Enforcer was better then too, just have a straight damage buff over stock with like, slightly lower firing speed, so you could get gun spy'd in a pinch too. Eventually changes to all three of these weapons killed the build, but it was a funny time for when it was around.
Here’s an idea I’ve been toying around with for the spy-cicle for a bit: Backstabbing a target also melts your knife, but you can shoot the statue to create an explosion. It’s about the size of the stock rocket launcher’s explosion, does the damage of the stock revolver, and leaves an obscuring cloud of mist for a few seconds.
Great vid on the weapon, idk if youtube lets you do it but you might want to blur the chat, theres a few slurs and bot links there. Though some of the chat range is funny to see the slurs arnt
I think an interesting unlock to give the spy for some kind of sub class type change in playstyle could be something themed around a lethal syringe injection which somehow works to reduce to suicidal nature of spy in return for taking away its ability to get more than one kill, shifting the risk reward balance around. of course this would wreck havoc on comp but im not sure thats what the game is designed or balanced for
May I make suggestion? [PvZ Garden Warfare 2] Bad (Weapon) Character Academy - Chomper. To clarify, Chomper is not THAT BAD as many may make you believe... It's just the overall jank, as well as his "unique" passive ability is what makes him bad. Remember: No one hates devouring zombies more than Chomper players themselves. And that's why BFN Chomper is the best Chomper. Because he, fortunately, lacks the insta-vanquish mechanic.
One thing kinda important is it’s history, it used to be a silent killer like the YER with no scream or kill feed notice, it was still louder then the YER due to the freezing sound but durning a time where the YER needed the stab it was a pretty interesting difference to it
One important thing about Spy Cicle is that because of the ice statues the stabs are much more silent than the usual screaming, which makes a real difference while trying to chainstab. The other stats make it about equal to vanilla knife in power, but the silent killing is what makes it straight up better imo
I think balancing and designing for Spy in general must be really hard because so much of the class specifically is based around psychology and player knowledge, the whole game around planning for the enemy team knowing and suspecting of your presence and how their skill will affect how they react to that.
Essentially, it's a band-aid on an inbalanced interaction. it does its job, but something should probably be done to buff spy from the beginning instead of creating another class-counter weapon. Oh well, the frozen statues stat goes hard, it's really fun running around and leaving everyone i stab frozen out there and we're in here and I just remembered we're out here and he's the sherri
I always thought that the Spy-cicle was a very 'extreme' weapon, both in it's ability to let you easily stop Spy's main counter (also being the only item in the game to give you complete damage immunity that isn't uber), and also in it's downside of just straight-up removing your melee (which would be bad for any class but _especially_ bad for spy) in return for that ability. And yeah the frozen corpses makes it obvious a spy's been around, but since when have you ever caught a spy thanks to the statue-formerly-victim?
As someone who mains spycicle I think it's a nice mid-counter to pyro. It's relatively easy to get away from a pyro (especially if paired with the DR) but the pyro still has a chance to mow you down. Not many people I play against now seem to care about the giant ice statues but then again I only play community servers these days.
Quick tip about gun spy: the revolver is very accurate on the first shot, but has a moderate spread on consecutive shots. Keep your range in mind when blasting fellas.
It would’ve been cool if the slot where the sapper is was the weapon slot that specifically targeted one class. The sapper only targets engies, the fire retardant suit to target pyros, then maybe have a sort of “iron head” for spy to nullify the headshot from snipers so that you can’t just be 180 headshot which would be especially useful for when the sniper has the razorback
I'm sure others have asked you about this weapon before, but I think the amputator deserves a "curious case" video. It's not that bad to deserve a "bad weapon academy" video, but it's not that good to be given a "in defense" episode either. I personally like this weapon, but I can't tell if I'm better off sticking with the solemn vow or not.
The amputator works best when the team is large enough to have more than 1 Medic. Constant team healing to go alongside having a normal Medic assisting people is hard to pass up. It makes chokepoints a real headache to pass through for the opposing team.
@@leithaziz2716 I've been in situations where the amputator is handy to have no doubt. Still though, not only you're mobile and vulnerable, but it builds Uber far slower than just simply healing each individual target. There's also the increased regen when equipped which I imagine is handy when using the blutsauger due to it decreasing health Regen, but I can't tell if it would be better to just have the blutsauger on hand at all times when running to a health pack in case of an enemy ambushes ya or switching between blutsauger and amputator.
i think rather then straight up "melting" the spysicle should instead "dull" where it becomes just a ice stick and can no longer backstab, but can still deal melee damage until its recharged. saves from the sapper swap priority, or in the rare case where your out of gun ammo and your literally just a sitting duck.
![[TF2] The Curious Case of the Homewrecker](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gUEww_ZwcyY/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] The Curious Case of the Homewrecker](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] Just What Exactly Is Wrong With Spy? - A Balance Discussion](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/u7t_hEUigbY/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] The Scorch Shot - Reignited](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xSYvoaTBT_k/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] The Direct Hit: Masterful Design for Masterful Soldiers](/img/n.gif)
Boy am I glad my stab victim is frozen in there and that we're out here, and that he's the Medic and that we're frozen out here, and that we're in there and- I JUST REMEMBERED, we're out here.
What I want to know is where's the sniper?
12-31-23
A Fan of "The Misadventures of Skooks", I see. Haha.
What I wanna know is WHERE'S THE PYRO?
Glorious based injoke. Bless you boyos
Omg...
Stats aside, the best thing about this weapon will always be back stabbing your enemies in front of an NSFW spray and leaving them for the entire server to see that they died down bad lmao.
Based
I'd rather die standing in front of nsfw spray than live kneeling
@@NovaProspekt19 same
@@NovaProspekt19 Scout's honest response:
Spy having something against Pyros to replace the sapper could actually be a good way to change Spy's playstyle a bit, the sapper is only good if there's an Engineer on the enemy team, so having something for when there isn't an Engineer could be pretty neat.
This is why the original Diamondback was considered extremely situational, since getting crits relied on the enemy team having an Engineer in the 1st place.
There was going to be unlock for spy was going to be flame resist item for spy. However it was scrap and the stats went to the darwin danger shield, despite it being not being needed for sniper and just giving a middle finger the pyro who actually aim their flares and/or actually went to get the sniper. Seriously why does most sniper secondary unlocks invalid close range weakness?
@@starmaker75 Sniper, being arguably the best class in the game, having a secondary that shuts down 2 classes is an idea I don't really know how Valve was fine to have in the game.
My idea is a hip flask full of water or non-flammable alcohol. The spy could splash it on himself to put him out, splash it on teammates to put them out, or splash it on engineer buildings to temporarily disable them.
Altough, without its sapper, the sentry become a hard counter to Spy, maybe more than a Pyro. Spy is all about to pick its target before the enemies can react to him. Which is a lot harder when an enemie can't be backstab, has an aimbot with a 360 field of view, and outdamage you by an order of magnitude.
"I'd rather live to fight another day than get 1 backstab"
But... That's like the entire spy experience...
Get 1 backstab and get deleted from existence.
(Insert witty one liner about scouts mom here)
That's just how sniper mains think
Yet all the gameplay I've seen from him is exactly overextending and forcing a kill instead of getting out. Seriously, the Spy video gameplay is so bad.
That happens to also be my Pyro strategy.
Pick the Jetpack -> fly to enemy's spawn -> get a few kills to slow their progress -> die instantly.
It seems pointless, but it does stall the match, especially on Payload, and give the team more time to prep.
@@CyrogenicNationoverextending??? isnt he supposed to infiltrate the enemy lines??
starting to realize that what we actually need is a Spy update
As someone relatively new, I'm surprised by spy's LACK of variety. The only real deviations from the base is kunai and gun spy. The class's kit is so same that just using something you have as standard is considered a different playstyle, imagine saying you have a custom car because you can use reverse.
I figured by how many games play, spy would've had a counter to most classes at the cost of survivability, like a spy taking out priority targets.
I think that heavy, spy, and medic all need updates
@@wetzel4806The thing that confuses me is that Spy is one of the most popular classes in the game (and 4 weapon slots), yet he doesn’t have many weapons to choose from. There is still a lot they could do with his kit, like make a throwing knife or make a knife that gives the spy better jumping ability.
@@wetzel4806 Trust me, it's not as bad as Heavy where your only playstyles are "any Minigun" or "Fat Scout". You can go Hoovy or make an attempt at KGB crit farming, but the viable way is pretty much just "pick Stock or Tomislav", and the only difference between them is range and DPS.
@@leithaziz2716
They are pretty much equal in that regard.
“Bonus damage against John Lennon”
fucking lmao
Gunspy has a cold motive now.
Octo dominating casual with his domclass
Best comment here lol
Good one
its weird how much the spy-cicle edges the line of being a soft and hard counter to pyro at the same time
Technically it doesn't counter Pyro, it just makes Pyro counter Spy less
*shots pyro*
PHRASING! Edges, soft, and hard make my mind go straight to the gutter
Unlike other anti-this-class weapons though the spy-cicle doesn't shut down a class's core function. The duration is too small to be a middle finger to Pyro but long enough for the Spy to make plays against the Pyro or get away. It consumes the Spy's most important offensive tool for a brief resistance to the class's biggest counter. A counter that often feels like a boss fight to overcome than an actual counter in that sense. It is an a unique situation compared to the interactions of the other classes that I think perfectly justifies its own existence in that context. It never feels like it exists to screw over the Pyro, from the perspective of the Pyro.
I believe the flame suit was originally supposed to take up your primary actually. That probably would've been way worse, taking away an entire mode of offense just to counter a single class, even if it's a common encounter.
Since most people forget that "SPY HAS A GUN", it would have been considered a straight upgrade
some people get pissed when a spy uses the gun (so far, i've seen it's been from spy players dying to a revolver), because it's like he's gotta be the cool stab dude, and then make montages, or something@@Loyde06
Imo spycicle is what a weapon against your counter should be. Sure it gives you a bit more survivability against pyro but you also lose out on your main source of pick potential if it gets triggered. Unlike sniper, who loses out on... A weapon slot he basically never uses anyway? Which he can pick and choose wether to counter spy or pyro with?
or pick a tool that allows him to counter both and whoever else gets into melee range (oh boy I love jarate bushwacka combo)
honestly i feel like snipers secondary slot is filled with either bad, stupid, or overpowered weapons. the only real balanced weapons in the slot i can think of off the top of my head is maybe the cozy camper and the stock smg, although im not entirely sure cuz i dont play sniper. jarate: actual free minicrits that can become full crits. razorback: only used to counter one slot on one class. That other smg i forgot the name of: jarate but you actually need to earn the crits. danger shield: basicly just used the counter flare spamming pyros.
I think you underrate the SMG. Pro snipers like Fatmagic use it all the time. It can deal a lot of damage if you have good aim. The backpacks (besides the Cozy) still kind of have lazy weapon designs, though they personally don’t bother me that much.
The neat thing about the spycicle is that the pyros effort burning you are not wasted; by applying afterburn the pyro is keeping their team safe from backstabs
you kinda got a point there@@defensivekobra3873
Hands down my favorite knife to use. There’s just something so satisfying about the kill sound
It would be cool if you could disguise yourself as one of the frozen corpses. Would be useful for ambushing teams
"Hey, was the conspicuous ice statue always there?"
"I don't know, but we should probably ignore it even though it gets closer every time we look away"
*cool* get it?
All for spies having a bit more trickery going on but that sounds like a lot of work for not a lot of benefit, not to mention UI hurdles
That be awesome
Prop Hunt knife
"Find myself sympathizing with characters like the Grinch and the dad from Elf more and more with each passing year"
I feel ya, Fish.
God it is really annoying how it goes from the spycicle right to the sapper by default when its activated. That was something i could never remember.
I'm pretty sure it's an anti-source spaghetti measure, game would probably freak out if it tried to switch to an empty revolver
Fun fact, the spy-cicle won't melt in MvM if you've used your sapper, essentially making you fire proof for that duration
There's another aspect to it that makes it a bit better at chain stabbing compared to stock: The freezing sound is much more quieter compared to the visceral death screams of your standard backstab, and the bodies freezing up in place can make some stabs behind people go unnoticed compared to a ragdoll flopping into their FoV.
good example is some rooftops that snipers perch themselves up at,
If killed off the right angle their ice statue slides off to the side where enemies look the least and as a result, they lose crucial evidence of the stab
But then again, freezing sound is very distinct, and a experienced player will know there’s a spy killing their team instead of just that a teammate died
Dr. EnforCicle was so broken to play back then and quite fun. Old Spycicle had one more perk back then that also gave silent kill stat like the YER. The fire protection as you stated goes so well with gunspy, but combine that with the old DR survivability, and the old Enforcer damage the gunspy style was straight up just a good consistent DPS class. Getting Kritz as Spy while you just mow down a team was actually quite viable Uber patient for pushes.
I remember when looking at the patches for the Spy-cicle, it mentioned that it used to have a silent kill akin to the YER, supposing that the ice statues would be the warning that there was a Spy; I would like to know how was it back then
That stat wasn't as useful as it is for the YER because the statues are even more of a dead giveaway than stock sometimes, but it's still an iconic part of the Dr Enforcicle loadout.
@@CyrogenicNation Though to be fair at this point, as said in the video, it would be surprising for there to NOT be a spy, hell, they often come in packs of 3 or 4
It was changed because the knife makes this super loud KKSHK!! Sound that defeats the purpose of the silent killer, so they thought it wasn’t much of a “silent” killer.
i really liked this stat back in the day, the freezing noise was easier to mask than the obvious screams, it used to be my go to knife back then
I honestly always assumed that the stat was only there so that the ice statues didn't scream, it clearly wasn't trying to be sneaky considering it leaves more of a trace than the regular knife does and already has its own distinguishing sound. Whatever the case, I guess they figured it wasn't really a problem and took the stat off in the end.
Ever since Octo's video, I viewed this knife as the gunspy knife. That playstyle actually got me to appreciate and enjoy playing the class
Make sure to equip your spycycles before lighting fireworks.
Happy new year, menn!!
happy new year :D
IIRC the fireproof suit that was tested on Spy was not a Sapper replacement, but a Revolver replacement instead.
I believe it was never added because the Devs felt it was unfair for Spy to have basically a hardcounter to Pyros entire kit, so the Spycicle was made instead.
Feels like a slap in the face that Sniper got it a couple of years later, _especially_ considering they already gave him an unlock to deal with Pyros burn mechanic in form of Jarate.
It should have stayed as a never introduced item.
To not say that Sniper is already relatively good at countering them to begin with since Sniper has a massive range whereas Pyro's range is smaller than Valve's development team.
The true slap in the face was that the Scorch Shit was added alongside all flare guns dealing mini crits to burning targets even later which generated and undeniable NEED for sniper to counter afterburn.
And then they didnt fix the Cozy Camper not working against afterburn aimpunch, which would have also nullified the danger shield and made it even more broken.
Wait, why the fuck does sniper have so many counter items?
I find it kinda funny that while usually unlocks that counter one class are usually poorly designed, the spy is countered so badly by pyro that this unlock is actually pretty alright lol (i think another thing in its favor is that you lose your main class feature when it melts so it isnt just a get out of jail free card)
It's funny, the weapon treats the ice sculptures as a detriment like evidence, but I see it as a fun bonus. Like "Whee! Ice sculptures! :D"
It's fun when you know which game the background music is from. It's festive when you know which levels they're from.
Squidward ensuring that Heavy is now art had me dying.
a think a secret stat that would be great for spy is to speed up his decloaking time when under afterburn, or other negative status effects like jarate to give u the chance of counter-acting
“Wow, ice statues! That means I can shoot two rockets at the Spy and he’ll actually die!” 😂
3:25 Spies were already buffed at base to be a bit better against pyros. Being cloaked halves damage over time effects. That was changed in one of the later updates of TF2.
they also nerfed afterburn duration in general.
they also buffed spy movement speed to match medic, so escaping a pyro is easier than ever.
What i like about spycicle is that it's not just a "fuck you" item like danger shield, since there's an actual trade off for using it. In case of danger shield, sniper still keeps his main weapon - rifle, and it in no way hinders its use. On the other hand, spycicle melts on use, which means spy looses his "main" weapon to escape a bad match up.
Kinda lost my thought here but in general it's a lot less frustrating to fight against as pyro
8:30 Thank you for calling out how horrendous post-Jungle Inferno flame opacity is
Nice vid!
If I remember correctly, another 'upside' this knife used to have (maybe still does) is that it mutes the scream after stab sound effect. In any case, by the most part the spy-cicle is low-key upgrade to stock in my opinion
The biggest issue is how this weapon is designed to counter Pyro, yet it encourages to avoid Pyros entirely because losing your ability to backstab for 15 seconds is pretty annoying.
You can use standing spycycle statues to hide from passing enemies for a short time, just remember to drop disguise if near their spawn.
"It's December!"
You really snuck this one in last second XD
the "i hate pyro knife"
I do like how fish is using his sniper loadout to appear there and make jokes, it's a nice change from just talking to a mic with info on screen and it's good to see every now and then. Also merry belated Christmas and happy new years.
Damn, your cut-away jokes are really improving quite a bit. I'm enjoying this.
The flame retardant suit was actually going to be a revolver replacement
4:50 How bold and brash of Squidward to art in a war zone.
3:01 sniper is the pain of my existence
The Ice Statues would've been ambiguous enough if there was a class capable of freezing enemies to death. So players would've been wondering if it was them or a Spy.
Look, I'm trying, Spy's job sucks enough as it does.
Would be particularly funny if the Pyro had a weapon based around freezing enemies to death. Hey, works for Deep Rock Galactic.
@@KingOfElectricNinjas Yeah, but bugs don't complain about not being able to move at all. A player on the other hand...
I think it's easily the best anti-one-class weapon. It's not like the danger shield where it's one free pass, it's a brief free pass against a spray and pray damage type that also removes your main weapon from you. That's actually a fair trade. The fact the argument is made that fire resistance should be in the base class design says a lot about how meagre the weapon is, lime with most spy weapons
Razorback is the one free pass as it breaks once you get backstabbed. The Dangershield is just a Permanant pass against pyros.
its a direct upgrade if you get hit by a pyro you are dead anyways
Honestly as someone who plays a lotta pyro im vary glad that spy has something, like its not that difficult to play around but at least they get a fighting chance. Also screw the danger shield
Spycicle was the first weapon I got as a random drop, finally. After all those years we got the bad weapon academy on this weapon. We did it.
Funny enough, I manage to backstab better with the Spy-cicle that I do with any of the other knives
Imagine a spy unlock that let him grab his stab victim's gun and use it but not gain any ammo from dispensers, ammo packs, or spawn lockers
I think your less ranty and shorter videos are where your analysis and script-writing shine. Don’t get me wrong, when I agree with you (and I generally do) it’s a lot of fun to hear you rant, but I think it can inhibit the potential of your videos a lot.
This video is excellent :)
I know its not really relevant and hasnt been for years but I kinda wish you gave a brief history lesson on the pre Gun Mettle "Dr. Enforcicle" meta that defined Spy play back in the day haha. For the unaware, the Dr. refers to Dead Ringer, and Enforcicle is Enforcer + Spy-Cicle. Dead Ringer and Spycicle were a good combo to cheat death and detection, and back then the Spycicle was a silent killer like the Eternal Reward is. I think the Enforcer was better then too, just have a straight damage buff over stock with like, slightly lower firing speed, so you could get gun spy'd in a pinch too. Eventually changes to all three of these weapons killed the build, but it was a funny time for when it was around.
Here’s an idea I’ve been toying around with for the spy-cicle for a bit:
Backstabbing a target also melts your knife, but you can shoot the statue to create an explosion. It’s about the size of the stock rocket launcher’s explosion, does the damage of the stock revolver, and leaves an obscuring cloud of mist for a few seconds.
Great vid on the weapon, idk if youtube lets you do it but you might want to blur the chat, theres a few slurs and bot links there. Though some of the chat range is funny to see the slurs arnt
I think an interesting unlock to give the spy for some kind of sub class type change in playstyle could be something themed around a lethal syringe injection which somehow works to reduce to suicidal nature of spy in return for taking away its ability to get more than one kill, shifting the risk reward balance around. of course this would wreck havoc on comp but im not sure thats what the game is designed or balanced for
9:36 shoutout to that guy who gave fish 13 scorch shots lel
I just love that you use Sly 2 soundtracks on your videos ❤
I love the frozen statue thing. I love weapons with alt death effects and this is one of the few where it's actually viable to play with it.
The Gunspy couldn't be as chill as he is now without the Spy-cicle
They should give the spycicle silent killer again. It made sense with the ice statues freezing and not making a noise besides that ice sound effect.
Definitely my favorite TF2 channel for a while now, keep up the awesome production quality and spicy takes! 😂
I appreciate the continued use of Sly Cooper music for your Spy-related videos. You care more about Sly than Sucker Punch these days.
May I make suggestion?
[PvZ Garden Warfare 2] Bad (Weapon) Character Academy - Chomper.
To clarify, Chomper is not THAT BAD as many may make you believe...
It's just the overall jank, as well as his "unique" passive ability is what makes him bad.
Remember:
No one hates devouring zombies more than Chomper players themselves.
And that's why BFN Chomper is the best Chomper. Because he, fortunately, lacks the insta-vanquish mechanic.
I only use this thing because I think it has a funny name. That's really it.
pros: pyros can't kill you as easily
cons: pyros can stop a backstab easier
A ha ha ha, I love the video icon with the frozen spy.
I use it for the cool ice Statues
Hands down best knife for gunspy, fire immunity for 1 second and no afterburn for 10 as i'm gunning a pyro down is the best.
One thing kinda important is it’s history, it used to be a silent killer like the YER with no scream or kill feed notice, it was still louder then the YER due to the freezing sound but durning a time where the YER needed the stab it was a pretty interesting difference to it
This was an excellent video, thank you for making it!
The spy-cicle has always seemed like a strange case to me
One important thing about Spy Cicle is that because of the ice statues the stabs are much more silent than the usual screaming, which makes a real difference while trying to chainstab. The other stats make it about equal to vanilla knife in power, but the silent killing is what makes it straight up better imo
Has anyone noticed the increase in quality with his videos? Im so happy you started to use sfm for your vids, it works really well! ❤
I think balancing and designing for Spy in general must be really hard because so much of the class specifically is based around psychology and player knowledge, the whole game around planning for the enemy team knowing and suspecting of your presence and how their skill will affect how they react to that.
Fun fact - the Spy-Cicle used to have silent backstabs a la Y.E.R., and was considered overpowered.
You could always do a summer themed weapon next year. Kind of like a "Christmas in July" kind of thing.
Remember when it silent killed as well? That was something. Im still a fan of making statues though
Essentially, it's a band-aid on an inbalanced interaction.
it does its job, but something should probably be done to buff spy from the beginning instead of creating another class-counter weapon.
Oh well, the frozen statues stat goes hard, it's really fun running around and leaving everyone i stab frozen out there and we're in here and I just remembered we're out here and he's the sherri
My favorite thing to do with the Spy-Cicle is wear the “Oh Deer!” Cosmetic and a yellow Brütal Bouffant
Love the sly cooper ost going on the background from the John Bison's map theme. A man of taste if I say so
The ice statues that are still burning may not make sense, but they do look awesome.
I always thought that the Spy-cicle was a very 'extreme' weapon, both in it's ability to let you easily stop Spy's main counter (also being the only item in the game to give you complete damage immunity that isn't uber), and also in it's downside of just straight-up removing your melee (which would be bad for any class but _especially_ bad for spy) in return for that ability. And yeah the frozen corpses makes it obvious a spy's been around, but since when have you ever caught a spy thanks to the statue-formerly-victim?
Spy-scream
7:24 That just turns The Spy-cicle into a Freezie Pop...which I like the idea of!
We love the ideas for the weapons which just is an icicle, nah, screw the butterfly knifes, just a random item
Ah yes, the knife that I only equip on my winter-themed loadout to complete the look because I never actually play Spy seriously.
I use to use spycicle over stock.. until i got a botkiller knife, still use it in my 2nd loadout
You forgot to add that the spycycle is so loud that the pyro realizes that he can W+m1 you because you cant trickstab him
As someone who mains spycicle I think it's a nice mid-counter to pyro. It's relatively easy to get away from a pyro (especially if paired with the DR) but the pyro still has a chance to mow you down. Not many people I play against now seem to care about the giant ice statues but then again I only play community servers these days.
When the spy is cycling:
Quick tip about gun spy: the revolver is very accurate on the first shot, but has a moderate spread on consecutive shots. Keep your range in mind when blasting fellas.
It would’ve been cool if the slot where the sapper is was the weapon slot that specifically targeted one class. The sapper only targets engies, the fire retardant suit to target pyros, then maybe have a sort of “iron head” for spy to nullify the headshot from snipers so that you can’t just be 180 headshot which would be especially useful for when the sniper has the razorback
I'm sure others have asked you about this weapon before, but I think the amputator deserves a "curious case" video. It's not that bad to deserve a "bad weapon academy" video, but it's not that good to be given a "in defense" episode either. I personally like this weapon, but I can't tell if I'm better off sticking with the solemn vow or not.
The amputator works best when the team is large enough to have more than 1 Medic. Constant team healing to go alongside having a normal Medic assisting people is hard to pass up. It makes chokepoints a real headache to pass through for the opposing team.
@@leithaziz2716 I've been in situations where the amputator is handy to have no doubt. Still though, not only you're mobile and vulnerable, but it builds Uber far slower than just simply healing each individual target. There's also the increased regen when equipped which I imagine is handy when using the blutsauger due to it decreasing health Regen, but I can't tell if it would be better to just have the blutsauger on hand at all times when running to a health pack in case of an enemy ambushes ya or switching between blutsauger and amputator.
2:41 - 2:50 But I thought it was supposed to replace the revolver slot?
Always enjoy the use of Sly Cooper music in your videos :)
The airplane section got me, great video as always fish!
Next year is gonna be “The curious case of the festivizer”
Waiting for the cloak and dagger episode part8
"welp, it's December" - my brother in christ you are cutting it close by posting this on the 31st! lol
I appreciate the Sly Cooper bgm for the Spy vids
so lemmi get this strait...fish doesnt like the rps system in tf2 but he's perfectly fine with the rps system in various pokemon games? huh
I wish it kept its old silent killer attribute where the ice statues being a disadvantage would have made sence still.
i think rather then straight up "melting" the spysicle should instead "dull" where it becomes just a ice stick and can no longer backstab, but can still deal melee damage until its recharged.
saves from the sapper swap priority, or in the rare case where your out of gun ammo and your literally just a sitting duck.