No I agree I hate Fords I'm a Chevy man but I can respect a man that cheats and racing and doesn't get caught cuz it's not cheating unless you get caught
Considering how NASCAR hosed Ford in the 60s when they changed the rules multiple times just to keep the 427 SOHC off the track, I feel this level of trickery was justified.
@@429supercj yep. Its GM that cried that everything had to stay an old ass 50s engine design because that's all they wanted to produce for their passenger vehicles. Overhead cams are far from "new technology" they were developed before WW2.
Man, being a NASCAR inspector back on a 90's race weekend had to be nuts. Trying to catch these engineering tricksters cheats and modifications had to be hair pulling.
@@KillyJoe Which years? Because with social media, I'd suggest that current F1 is harder on the teams to hide an advantage, especially with the "spirit of the rules" clause that the FIA has (which had become common-place if you look at the ACO, IMSA, and SRO also); so even if something is done that is within the rules, but does give an outright advantage, they can penalize the team if they feel it is necessary. Mercedes wheel spacers in 2019 is the perfect example, FIA rules specifically stated that any device that was made to be a moving aero device in the wheel was banned, but anything that just happened to have a knock on effect to aerodynamics inside of the rim wasn't. Or Land autosport's penalty in the 2018 rolex 24hr, refueling was restricted by pump pressure and fuel nozzle size; yet land reshaped their filler for tank size regulation in GT3 to where the tank would naturally cause the fuel nozzle to refuel faster without violating the pump pressure or fuel nozzle restrictor. In both cases, teams were either penalized or forced to not use said parts. They never violated the rules, they came right up to the red line the rules stated and never crossed. Yet5 they were treated like they broke the rules. The latter example was something that if I was a crew chief on even an opposing team I would have been forcing my team to park over. Because to get penalized midrace for a rule infraction that doesn't exist is a standard that no one can honestly operate under in good faith.
I remember this controversy back in '98. During this season, Earnhardt commented about Ford and its "inventive car." Larry McReynolds went as far as to say that when you look at the Monte Carlo, the shape of it is what you're going to be able to get at a car dealership. He said that is not possible with the Taurus.
Wow, would never have guessed that that dusty old car sitting outside was that important to the history of Nascar. Cant believe a car with such a story behind it is just left parked back there. Fascinating story! This was a cool episode!
I can just imagine a Ford Executive trying to sell this to NASCAR all while trying to hide a shit-eating grin and desperately trying to not breakout into laughter. "Yeah, oh yeah *pffft* yeah dude we're totally using this *bwahahaha* as a production car. *pffffft* No no no, we're totally serious *hahaHAHA* this is it, we're definitely rolling these off the line as we speak, man."
As a past crew chief in hobby-stock roundy round racing I and all my fellow crew chiefs held true to the theory that racing is just how much can you cheat without getting caught... This is the true ingenuity of racing.
Facts. At 16 and 17 I won back to back track champion. I had an empty torque converter and a push button solenoid to engage gears on a powerglide. I had to study that trans and so a bunch of trial and error. My hero's told me: If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying.
This is by far my favorite channel that shows respect to NASCAR and the old ways I worked for Randy Porter Sammy Kershaw Motorsports Busch Grand National team for several years and those were some amazing times for innovation as far as this car goes it needs to be saved instead of sitting out back rusting someone needs to save that car and put it up for a history project
This era of Stock Car Racing is still an incredibly fantastic era. Nice to know a part of my favorite pastimes of this sport had innovative and memorable moments of engineering that changed everything.
I stopped by the North Carolina Auto Racing Hall Of Fame today not remembering that this was the place that had the Taurus and when I saw it I was genuinely excited and spent a good 10-15 minutes just observing the car and explaining to a family that this was not just a regular old Taurus. Had I not watched this video I would have completely ignored it and thought it was any old Taurus long forgotten in a parking space. Just glad it caught my eye and this car definitely deserves to be inside the museum hopefully they move it in before the cold season hits.
God we need a" grey area " of the rulebook museum for all types of racing, from frame rails with trap doors full of buck shot or deck lids with lips ya could lay down or up for qualifying, 2.5 inch diameter fuel lines like smokey did. All of the crazy ways guys tried to use to get that advantage you know there are bits and pieces littered all over the world made just to cheat or use the grey area of the rule books.
I was a Huge fan from the 80's thru the late 2000's . What he said was true about al the cars becoming the same and racing being boring . Back in those times each manufacturer at one time or another held an advantage and the racing was better . As a fam it also made you more emotional about the manufacturer you pulled for . On a side note I own a 4th gen Pontiac Nascar . Now I know who is responsible for the template design of that car , very interesting .
Please quit being naive. You STILL call yourself Cole. Well Dale Jr. said,Cole, Days Of Thunder suçked! He led a chorus that sang so , Cole buddy. Memphis Dan LeLoLai Now THAT is a damgood nickname.
Definitely more storytime with Don Miller. I know Indycars isn't really subject matter for this channel, but I reckon he has some pretty interesting stories about that side of Penske's racing from back in the day. It's also very good that you do these videos, because a lot of these guys are getting up there in age and once they're gone, so are the stories and the details...most of which they can now tell without having to keep up 100% of the kayfabe 😀
Man you guys are really making some great videos. I' m 65, but I have only been a fan of NASCAR since about 2007. Your videos have kind of filled in some gaps for me about the sport. I really haven't seen videos that cover the history of NASCAR as well as your channel has done. Yea, there are some slick videos that are professionally made. But, your videos do history from a more personal angle, by asking down to earth questions to the people that were there. I like the fact that you don't edit it to death, Very interesting content, really. Thanks for your hard work
Again my guy! This is a dude that pulled the wool over Ford Corporate brass, built an "prop" that NASCAR bought.. and here he is telling you these things like he's your grandpa. AND you'll probably thank me for this comment like you have the several other times I mention you having legit journalist credit.. getting the inside scoop in all the best shops. Bravo.
During my short time living in Charlotte earlier this year, they let me take a good look at this car. It's so amazing how not a Taurus this car is but yet is an amazing trick they played
Great video, I had the chance to have a conversation years ago with Red Farmer when he raced one of his last ARCA races. I worked for his owner/sponsor and got pit passes and he just struck up a conversation and his knowledge was unbelievable. I’m sure anyone he drove for hated how generous he was at the track lol, he was offering advice and help to all the teams who couldn’t figure out the mile dirt track they were at. Something I’ll never forget seeing someone so well respected like that, I can’t imagine the advice he gave younger drivers over the years.
Several years ago I was able to sit in the very office you guys did this interview in and have a similar conversation with Don. We covered many of the same topics you did and more. Once you have the chance to sit and talk with these guys, you realize they were racing, they were the men who made it happen. I too walked away with a signed copy of the book, took it home and did not put it down until I had finished reading it early into the next morning. When I did lay it down, I knew that I had sit and talked with one of the greatest behind the scenes characters this sport had ever had. Great video and channel buddy!
Had the pleasure of visiting the North Carolina Auto Racing Hall of Fame back in July. Spent hours being a sponge taking it all in. Spent another hour talking with the employees. A wonderful visit for us! Thanks for uncovering this wild component of motorsports history!
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I never watched a NASCAR race or even remotely cared about NASCAR until y’all started making the history videos. I respect all forms of racing, but roundly round was never my thing. I’m all about the drag race, hot rod, car show, car collection stuff. Currently building 2 92 GMC Typhoons and they are staying AWD and V6 even though LS swapping the one we are trying to make real fast would be cheaper and easier. Love the content. Love what y’all do.
Man how do you find this stuff to make videos about? The amount of hours and hours of research and work that you 2 do must be staggering. Much respect to you 2, that's what makes this channel so great. 👏
I know it takes a lot of hard work searching all these people out and doing all these videos ! It gives people like me (76) a perspective of Nascar I would never know without your hard work ! Keep up your videos,I really enjoy them ! Sam
Great stuff. If you want a lesson in history doomed to repeat itself, find the last Wilkesboro race online and see what DW said about "taking" from the sport and not giving back. Ultimately it's what the sport did to itself 20 years later. Love this stuff, great job!
Always enjoy stories from Don. I watched an old 90s show about Rusty Wallace, it's on UA-cam. It talked about the #16 Penske Caprice and how Penske ended up teaming up Rusty st start Penske South. I just enjoy any thing about the old Nascar days!! Thank yall again!!
I was working at Ford motor Company in the Racing group doing wind tunnel work on that car. And from my point of view the story was slightly different than Don Miller‘s current story. In the beginning, we just raised the trunk lid up to create more downforce and move the rear spoiler position Closer to what the Monte Carlo used. And NASCAR sent us back to the wind tunnel With the task of Incorporating facsimile of the Monte Carlo rear bumper on the back of that gray Taurus. It was all in the vein of equalizing the brands
As a massive race fan since childhood I can’t thank you both enough for finding this history and those who lived it have the space to tell us about it. I’ve always been a history buff and even more so with this. Thanks again for everything and keep up the great work!
honestly a shame it was discontinued when it was, we were right on the verge of having SVT throw a MK 8 32v 4.6 into them. Of all the things Ford has done blunder wise, I feel that was up there. Then again, they wouldn't want a mustang slayer... Already made that mistake before.
Being a disabled veteran it’s hard to support channels but try to get to these places I see on here. That museum in Winston Salem got shut down before I made it there. Mooresville has so many but I’m gonna make it there. Don is a interesting guy.
I tried to hang with the old man in my town who ran a machine shop and did dirt track stuff, his son got into trouble, and he lost interest in passing on his knowledge. For a couple years every time I would see him I would try to start a conversation, but he never did give in. I really wanted to hang around race cars, but it's always been from the outside. I will keep fixing normal cars in the meantime, but this is the door that was never open to me. As always best content around! Thanks
I wa a lifetime huge NASCAR fan. I was even working at Ford dealerships at this time, however the switch to a 4dr car was the beginning of the decline of NASCAR. Of course there are other factors, but this got it started for me.
There's ways of doing it and I think what Don touched on with the Chris Economaki story at the end and the common templates is more what did it NASCAR in, rather than the number of doors. There's also from my view, there was also, the pigheaded determination to stick with the concept of a "stock car" that hadn't corresponded even remotely with anything you could buy in a showroom for a long, long time*. As much as cars like the R32 GTR and Sierra Cosworth can be criticized for ruining touring car racing series, at least you could walk into a Ford or a Nissan dealership and buy one that had most of the parts, glass, bumpers and body panels the race cars did. *I speculate that there was also a lot of boardroom spreadsheet blindness going on. All of the revenue, ratings everything indicators they wanted to see were way in the green and coming into the mid 1990s, almost every other kind of racing outside of F1 that some random racing fan, who might tune in to a NASCAR race and stay, was either in the shitter or on the way there. So, they had to be right and everybody else was wrong.
@@Tayd0g NASCAR hit paydirt late 90s early 00s, because business decisions, fortunate circumstances and the like allowed for the expansion. This is going to belong, so apologies for that. Kind of what I was referring to, hardcore fans are going to watch irrelevant of what the cars look like as long as it says Ford or Chevy on the hood, the racing is good and there's plenty of entertainment and colorful characters to go around. The hardcore fans will continue watching until the product is so bad that they give up. And NASCAR had plenty of good racing and characters the audience could identify with to go around, even if the cars and the increasingly bland "family friendly" aspects AND the tracks were becoming off putting and cookie cutter to what was first, a small portion of the audience. The other thing was, what other racing with U.S. drivers, manufacturers and teams was the potential, not the hardcore motor racing fans going to watch? Streaming races over the internet in a watchable quality was still unheard of and things like open wheel racing in the U.S. with all due respect to the drivers and teams, was becoming such bad drizzling shits , many just gave up (and never went back). Just an old guy venting 😀
I enjoy all your videos! It's great you can get these figures to share their stories while they are still here to tell them. No one else seems to be dedicated to bringing them to us as you do. Thanks for taking the time to bring us "a look behind the curtain".
Love you guys... It won't be too long before these guys are gone. Without you two going out and getting the history it'll just be gone... So, keep it up. It reminds me why I used to love watching Nascar when I was a kid. I can't force myself to watch..... whatever it is they're doing now....
I believe it was early February of 1998... I and my cousin went out to Rockingham to watch a pre-season test. I was interested in going because they would have the new Taurus on track. The Taurus that made the most laps was completely brown. I've always wondered who was behind the wheel. Watching this video makes it even cooler I was able to see some of the first laps the new ford ran on a track that wasn't Daytona. That test was also memorable because of one other reason. I had decided to go underneath the turn, one stands, and lean right up against the fence. I remember being able to look straight down the banking from my view. It was such a neat view, watching the cars decelerate into the turn, one. I think I was 15 at the time and it was the closest I had ever been to the racing surface. One car completely lost the back end as it decelerated into turn one, and I ended up in a cloud of smoke by the time the car had finished sliding just inches from where I was at the fence. Honestly, it scared the daylights out of me. But it's still one of the coolest moments I've had at a track.
@@kevinbarrett5001 thank you. Unfortunately we won't be able to get her medicine today that she needs when we go home but hopefully something will happen and we will be able to get it. Cancer sucks
Chevy kinda did the same thing in 2013 with the Chevrolet SS aka the Holden Commodore. Only difference is that car actually saw real production, was a bit of a beast too.
Very much enjoyed hearing Mr Miller. Been going to the races since I was 5 yrs old. First race... Ona, WV The King won and that's the day I became a LIFE long 43 fan. I had a customer of mine bring me a program from that race and it has Wendell Scott autograph on the back, PLUS I have some pictures from that day also.
Don Miller gave me his Book when we visited the Hall of Fame Museum last year, it‘s sparked my love for Nascar! I knew a little bit about Nascar but it was not very well broadcasted here in Germany. And your Videos helped to get me more into it.
Y'all never disappoint! One amazing story after another!! I absolutely love everything y'all do & what you stand for!! I'm hoping 1 day I'm able to get a little extra money to be able to buy some merch from y'all! It's a little tough right now because I'm disabled & have twin boys that are special needs & disabled & my wife is having a lot of health issues right now. I don't think you know how much y'all help me & others with what y'all do! It gives me a little break from my reality & helps immensely! Thanks again for everything y'all do for me, my family & the history of NASCAR!!!
Thank you guys for continuing to make these videos! Some of these stories might otherwise die with the people that hold them if not for you all documenting it on video. Your work does not go unnoticed!
my fur daughter is named Shelby... she's getting older now, so she's slowed down a bit. but she definitely lived up to her name when she was younger. and she still can move when she wants to. used to have a boy named Brother that was quite a bit taller, so he could beat her down the straights, but she'd get him in the turns. both awesome pups.
When you find someone who was not only there for everything but can retell it so well in an interesting way you have to listen and record it if possible.
As always, a fascinating piece. Don probably has a ton of stories to tell and I'm glad you guys are capturing them on video for all of us history nuts to hear.
Had a 97 thunderbird Couldn’t kill it , tough as nails Had a v6 engine automatic on the floor Use to manual shift it banging off the rev limiter , that car could do donuts Was very surprised with that car
I've always been a fan of Nascar but I really became a fan when Kevin Harvick was driving the 29 car after Earnhardt SR. passed away and since then I've been a harvick fan and now I find myself rooting for Ty Gibbs I'm happy I found your channe so I know the history of my favorite sport
Old schools like Don shouldn't be blown off because you've go other better things to do. Grab a sweet tea sit down, shut up and listen. History does repeat itself. But by listening we help make the future better.
Love the things you cover. I went to my first race in 66 in Bristol, TN and have been a fan ever since. Some ups and downs thru the years but still love it. Keep up the great work.
A story of the tail wagging the dog… Sometimes it’s better, to hope for forgiveness, then ask for permission. Great story! Reminded me of some of the Smokey Yunick stories.
Awesome stories come to life on this channel! Thank you guys so much for sharing with the rest of the world. This your biggest fan in northern Calif. Jeff!
Thanks for the hard work. I'm from this area and love NASCAR & history. Alot of the stuff you guys talk about I was too young to remember so listen to these stores just bring back all these memories of being 6/7 yrs old at Charlotte infield or N. Wilkesboro and Rockingham with my dad.
Thank you for the Don Miller videos. Before these videos I did not Know about the Ford Superbird or the process to create the first Taurus stock cars. I'd like to hear more stories from Don. JM
Was waiting for this episode. I remember the Monte Carlo was totally dominant. When the new body came out the tables turned. Agreed guys like him Lee Holman have such a wealth of history. I'm glad you both are recording them before they take the checkered flag of life.
Actually the monte Carlo wasn't dominant but they kept penalizing the T-Bird because the Chevy guys cried. These are facts. The Thunderbird dominated the speedways.
@@hotrod7938 I'm not saying they wasn't successful what I am telling you is they kept penalizing the Thunderbird you can look back on the record book. The car was so dominant they kept taking away from it. That's all I'm saying.
I absolutely love listening to the stories that are told while I’m truckin around the country. I promise to buy some merch one day soon. (I am not watching but definitely listening while I’m driving)
The new white shirt fits amazingly and the material has great quality, so happy with getting that and the note with some stickers from you both. Thanks for continuing to bring these stories back to life for our enjoyment. Much appreciated!
Another gem found. Nice work! Interesting how they saw what was special about the 95-up Monte Carlo and they were able to get even more of it with that not-Taurus. It'd be interesting to see if there's anything out there about the 2000 Monte Carlo development. I remember seeing articles or quickie interviews about it's early development and how Nascar didn't like it. I believe there it was a Mike Skinner interview where he stated that "Nascar has stolen all the specialness of this car from the rear window." That's really stuck with me and I've always wondered about it.
Love your channel the stories the people the history and you guys! The passion you two have for what you do is great and genuine I rarely binge watch anything but I can watch your videos for hours! Please keep it up and keep being you! I'll keep watching and spreading the word about you guys! That is so much!
It really has got me pumped about NASCAR again. Your channel and the Dale JR download are my favorites. My son is 1 year old and we watch classic races every night and play with 90’s die cast cars. He loves it! It makes me happy to see that. It was an important part of my childhood. Btw, was that your Lake Speed video he was commenting about on the Fatback episode? Thank you both for all your efforts and hard work!
Mitch I discovered your channel when you did the first dw van video. Been watching every video since. Love what you guys do. I'm 39 and went to a lot of races. I love learning things I didn't know. You've solved a lot of mysteries in my head and things I didn't know back then. I remember and wondered why sterling marlin's car sounded so different at Talladega in 1995
Remember seeing the Ford "Superbird" video, thanks for the reference! Great to see you guys compile another wonderful history video about NASCAR, much appreciated by me! Thank you & Logan once again for all the hard work you two put into these episodes, and, yes, I'm one of those guys who is here until the end of the video until you sign off and say see you in the next one. Keep up the great work, am there with you each episode!😎👍👍👍
Anything late 90's I love hearing these type of stories because I started watching NASCAR in late 1996. So hearing this stuff of when I was just getting into the sport is very cool. Keep up the great work! Keep the stories coming!
Can't wait for the roof flaps video. I've heard it was because of Rusty's two huge airborne barrel roll wrecks at Daytona and Talladega in '93 that made NASCAR come up with them.
Yeah, Don has a great deal of knowledge and it is always great to hear what he has to say. Thanks for the heads up on the book too. I will be sure and read it since I read about NASCAR in junior Hight School 50 years ago.
Really interesting and cool story. While the Penske/Miller version obviously became the final NASCAR approved Taurus, they were not the only ones experimenting. I was working at the Atlanta Assembly Plant in the late 80’s when the Bill Elliot team came to the plant and loaded up a truck full of Taurus body sheet metal parts to take back to their shop and work on. I never saw the end result of their work , if there was one but, they sure took a lot of sheet metal from our plant body shop.
@@Stapleton42 Exactly, and at the time I was a die hard Bill Elliott fan and thought it was odd they would want Taurus parts. But I think now they were just experimenting rather than a full on effort to replace the T-Bird. But maybe just looking to see what could be done with a next generation body style since the Taurus was new in 86 and this was probably somewhere in the ‘88-‘90 time frame but I can’t remember the exact year. At the plant level I would not have known the end of life for the T-Bird was coming but later moving back to Dearborn and staff Engineering we were aware of the long range program life and possibly Ford had tipped off the Elliotts team to start thinking about a replacement. I got a cool signed poster from them out of it. Including not only all the brothers but also their mom and dad. Might be the only family signed poster like it. Anyway love your videos and glad you started down this history trail.
Have you gone on the channel page and watched our older NASCAR history videos yet 👀
Merch link: Stapletonautoworks.com
Sweet
Maybe you should nickname it problem
Id like to see more of the underdog vids like dave marcus,morgan shepherd those guys who literally made gold from dust
@@michaelmckinney5541 Working on it! How bout Jimmy Means?
I need to! Been a NASCAR fan for 40 years. My friend has a Daytona 500 ring. He was a tire changer for Derek Cope
For something that ended up having such a big effect on the series that Taurus should be in the museum not just sitting outside left to rot
It will be in the museum soon!
@@Stapleton42 that’s great to hear
No I agree I hate Fords I'm a Chevy man but I can respect a man that cheats and racing and doesn't get caught cuz it's not cheating unless you get caught
It’s rotting alright! Just like a Taurus would too, through the rear window and quarters!
Agreed
Considering how NASCAR hosed Ford in the 60s when they changed the rules multiple times just to keep the 427 SOHC off the track, I feel this level of trickery was justified.
Any time GM cries Ford gets restricted more
@@429supercj it was because all engines were to be pushrod engines
@@darwinfoster7420 that was their excuse that time. What's your excuse for when they banned the boss 429?
@David Morsberger that too, the muscle car wars were between Ford and Mopar with GM crying to get them restricted.
@@429supercj yep. Its GM that cried that everything had to stay an old ass 50s engine design because that's all they wanted to produce for their passenger vehicles. Overhead cams are far from "new technology" they were developed before WW2.
Man, being a NASCAR inspector back on a 90's race weekend had to be nuts. Trying to catch these engineering tricksters cheats and modifications had to be hair pulling.
they obviously didnt try back then... its easy now with the cookie cutter cars
Imagine formula 1
@@mcf3778 at least use your head 🤣. There are interviews that prove you don’t know anything.
@@KillyJoe Which years? Because with social media, I'd suggest that current F1 is harder on the teams to hide an advantage, especially with the "spirit of the rules" clause that the FIA has (which had become common-place if you look at the ACO, IMSA, and SRO also); so even if something is done that is within the rules, but does give an outright advantage, they can penalize the team if they feel it is necessary.
Mercedes wheel spacers in 2019 is the perfect example, FIA rules specifically stated that any device that was made to be a moving aero device in the wheel was banned, but anything that just happened to have a knock on effect to aerodynamics inside of the rim wasn't. Or Land autosport's penalty in the 2018 rolex 24hr, refueling was restricted by pump pressure and fuel nozzle size; yet land reshaped their filler for tank size regulation in GT3 to where the tank would naturally cause the fuel nozzle to refuel faster without violating the pump pressure or fuel nozzle restrictor.
In both cases, teams were either penalized or forced to not use said parts. They never violated the rules, they came right up to the red line the rules stated and never crossed. Yet5 they were treated like they broke the rules. The latter example was something that if I was a crew chief on even an opposing team I would have been forcing my team to park over. Because to get penalized midrace for a rule infraction that doesn't exist is a standard that no one can honestly operate under in good faith.
Yeah and just think, about half of the inspectors or more, used to be masterful creators of the rule bending prior to inspecting
Lol
I remember this controversy back in '98. During this season, Earnhardt commented about Ford and its "inventive car." Larry McReynolds went as far as to say that when you look at the Monte Carlo, the shape of it is what you're going to be able to get at a car dealership. He said that is not possible with the Taurus.
Wow, would never have guessed that that dusty old car sitting outside was that important to the history of Nascar.
Cant believe a car with such a story behind it is just left parked back there.
Fascinating story! This was a cool episode!
That car should be in a museum
Don Miller continues to be one of the most respected figures in all of motorsports.
Our living Smokey Yunick
I can just imagine a Ford Executive trying to sell this to NASCAR all while trying to hide a shit-eating grin and desperately trying to not breakout into laughter.
"Yeah, oh yeah *pffft* yeah dude we're totally using this *bwahahaha* as a production car. *pffffft* No no no, we're totally serious *hahaHAHA* this is it, we're definitely rolling these off the line as we speak, man."
And Ford did do the change.. haha and made the little Taurus a winner in sales as well as the racetrack
As a past crew chief in hobby-stock roundy round racing I and all my fellow crew chiefs held true to the theory that racing is just how much can you cheat without getting caught... This is the true ingenuity of racing.
Facts. At 16 and 17 I won back to back track champion. I had an empty torque converter and a push button solenoid to engage gears on a powerglide. I had to study that trans and so a bunch of trial and error.
My hero's told me: If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying.
This is by far my favorite channel that shows respect to NASCAR and the old ways I worked for Randy Porter Sammy Kershaw Motorsports Busch Grand National team for several years and those were some amazing times for innovation as far as this car goes it needs to be saved instead of sitting out back rusting someone needs to save that car and put it up for a history project
For real, I bet a car like that could go to an auction like Barrett Jackson or Mecum if it was cleaned up and the proceeds can go to charity
This is the extreme version of being handed a bag of lemons, and turning them into lemonade! These guys had balls to do what they did.
This era of Stock Car Racing is still an incredibly fantastic era. Nice to know a part of my favorite pastimes of this sport had innovative and memorable moments of engineering that changed everything.
I stopped by the North Carolina Auto Racing Hall Of Fame today not remembering that this was the place that had the Taurus and when I saw it I was genuinely excited and spent a good 10-15 minutes just observing the car and explaining to a family that this was not just a regular old Taurus. Had I not watched this video I would have completely ignored it and thought it was any old Taurus long forgotten in a parking space. Just glad it caught my eye and this car definitely deserves to be inside the museum hopefully they move it in before the cold season hits.
God we need a" grey area " of the rulebook museum for all types of racing, from frame rails with trap doors full of buck shot or deck lids with lips ya could lay down or up for qualifying, 2.5 inch diameter fuel lines like smokey did. All of the crazy ways guys tried to use to get that advantage you know there are bits and pieces littered all over the world made just to cheat or use the grey area of the rule books.
I was a Huge fan from the 80's thru the late 2000's . What he said was true about al the cars becoming the same and racing being boring . Back in those times each manufacturer at one time or another held an advantage and the racing was better . As a fam it also made you more emotional about the manufacturer you pulled for . On a side note I own a 4th gen Pontiac Nascar . Now I know who is responsible for the template design of that car , very interesting .
Please quit being naive. You STILL call yourself Cole. Well Dale Jr. said,Cole, Days Of Thunder suçked! He led a chorus that sang so , Cole buddy.
Memphis Dan LeLoLai
Now THAT is a damgood nickname.
Love the 1996-2002 Pontiac Grand Prix, probably my favorite Gen 4 body.
Definitely more storytime with Don Miller. I know Indycars isn't really subject matter for this channel, but I reckon he has some pretty interesting stories about that side of Penske's racing from back in the day.
It's also very good that you do these videos, because a lot of these guys are getting up there in age and once they're gone, so are the stories and the details...most of which they can now tell without having to keep up 100% of the kayfabe 😀
Man you guys are really making some great videos. I' m 65, but I have only been a fan of NASCAR since about 2007. Your videos have kind of filled in some gaps for me about the sport. I really haven't seen videos that cover the history of NASCAR as well as your channel has done. Yea, there are some slick videos that are professionally made. But, your videos do history from a more personal angle, by asking down to earth questions to the people that were there. I like the fact that you don't edit it to death, Very interesting content, really. Thanks for your hard work
Thank you Bill. Authenticity is important to us.
Again my guy! This is a dude that pulled the wool over Ford Corporate brass, built an "prop" that NASCAR bought.. and here he is telling you these things like he's your grandpa. AND you'll probably thank me for this comment like you have the several other times I mention you having legit journalist credit.. getting the inside scoop in all the best shops. Bravo.
Thank you Benny. I would be honored to have Don as my grandpa 😂
During my short time living in Charlotte earlier this year, they let me take a good look at this car. It's so amazing how not a Taurus this car is but yet is an amazing trick they played
Great video, I had the chance to have a conversation years ago with Red Farmer when he raced one of his last ARCA races. I worked for his owner/sponsor and got pit passes and he just struck up a conversation and his knowledge was unbelievable. I’m sure anyone he drove for hated how generous he was at the track lol, he was offering advice and help to all the teams who couldn’t figure out the mile dirt track they were at. Something I’ll never forget seeing someone so well respected like that, I can’t imagine the advice he gave younger drivers over the years.
Several years ago I was able to sit in the very office you guys did this interview in and have a similar conversation with Don. We covered many of the same topics you did and more. Once you have the chance to sit and talk with these guys, you realize they were racing, they were the men who made it happen. I too walked away with a signed copy of the book, took it home and did not put it down until I had finished reading it early into the next morning. When I did lay it down, I knew that I had sit and talked with one of the greatest behind the scenes characters this sport had ever had. Great video and channel buddy!
Thanks man!! That’s an awesome experience
Had the pleasure of visiting the North Carolina Auto Racing Hall of Fame back in July. Spent hours being a sponge taking it all in. Spent another hour talking with the employees. A wonderful visit for us! Thanks for uncovering this wild component of motorsports history!
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I never watched a NASCAR race or even remotely cared about NASCAR until y’all started making the history videos. I respect all forms of racing, but roundly round was never my thing. I’m all about the drag race, hot rod, car show, car collection stuff. Currently building 2 92 GMC Typhoons and they are staying AWD and V6 even though LS swapping the one we are trying to make real fast would be cheaper and easier. Love the content. Love what y’all do.
Thank you Clay! this history is super fascinating no matter how you slice it lol
Man how do you find this stuff to make videos about? The amount of hours and hours of research and work that you 2 do must be staggering. Much respect to you 2, that's what makes this channel so great. 👏
Hard work for sure lol. thanks man
I know it takes a lot of hard work searching all these people out and doing all these videos ! It gives people like me (76) a perspective of Nascar I would never know without your hard work ! Keep up your videos,I really enjoy them ! Sam
Yes Yes Yes Interview all of the legends you can while you still can . Once they are gone that history is gone forever.
Great stuff. If you want a lesson in history doomed to repeat itself, find the last Wilkesboro race online and see what DW said about "taking" from the sport and not giving back. Ultimately it's what the sport did to itself 20 years later.
Love this stuff, great job!
Definitely take the time to document more of his stories, as many as y'all possibly can. I loved this.
Always enjoy stories from Don. I watched an old 90s show about Rusty Wallace, it's on UA-cam. It talked about the #16 Penske Caprice and how Penske ended up teaming up Rusty st start Penske South. I just enjoy any thing about the old Nascar days!! Thank yall again!!
I was working at Ford motor Company in the Racing group doing wind tunnel work on that car. And from my point of view the story was slightly different than Don Miller‘s current story.
In the beginning, we just raised the trunk lid up to create more downforce and move the rear spoiler position Closer to what the Monte Carlo used. And NASCAR sent us back to the wind tunnel With the task of
Incorporating facsimile of the Monte Carlo rear bumper on the back of that gray Taurus.
It was all in the vein of equalizing the brands
I always thought the fake taurus bumper looked a lot like the Monte Carlo one lol. Makes sense.
As a massive race fan since childhood I can’t thank you both enough for finding this history and those who lived it have the space to tell us about it. I’ve always been a history buff and even more so with this. Thanks again for everything and keep up the great work!
Thank you Kevin!
The thunderbird was a great car
My first car was 1989 super coupe
honestly a shame it was discontinued when it was, we were right on the verge of having SVT throw a MK 8 32v 4.6 into them. Of all the things Ford has done blunder wise, I feel that was up there. Then again, they wouldn't want a mustang slayer... Already made that mistake before.
Kulwicki's "UNDERBIRD" was awesome! Also, the stock Thunderbird SuperCoupes were pretty nice looking too.
Being a disabled veteran it’s hard to support channels but try to get to these places I see on here. That museum in Winston Salem got shut down before I made it there. Mooresville has so many but I’m gonna make it there. Don is a interesting guy.
Definitely you need to go see Don!
Don is a great story teller, thanks for sharing. Can’t wait see more of him
Glad you enjoyed it!
What a fascinating story! Maybe even more fascinating, is how much Don Miller looks like the brother of Roger Penske!
I tried to hang with the old man in my town who ran a machine shop and did dirt track stuff, his son got into trouble, and he lost interest in passing on his knowledge. For a couple years every time I would see him I would try to start a conversation, but he never did give in. I really wanted to hang around race cars, but it's always been from the outside. I will keep fixing normal cars in the meantime, but this is the door that was never open to me. As always best content around! Thanks
Thanks man! It was never open to me either. I had to fight my way in.
I wa a lifetime huge NASCAR fan. I was even working at Ford dealerships at this time, however the switch to a 4dr car was the beginning of the decline of NASCAR. Of course there are other factors, but this got it started for me.
There's ways of doing it and I think what Don touched on with the Chris Economaki story at the end and the common templates is more what did it NASCAR in, rather than the number of doors. There's also from my view, there was also, the pigheaded determination to stick with the concept of a "stock car" that hadn't corresponded even remotely with anything you could buy in a showroom for a long, long time*. As much as cars like the R32 GTR and Sierra Cosworth can be criticized for ruining touring car racing series, at least you could walk into a Ford or a Nissan dealership and buy one that had most of the parts, glass, bumpers and body panels the race cars did.
*I speculate that there was also a lot of boardroom spreadsheet blindness going on. All of the revenue, ratings everything indicators they wanted to see were way in the green and coming into the mid 1990s, almost every other kind of racing outside of F1 that some random racing fan, who might tune in to a NASCAR race and stay, was either in the shitter or on the way there. So, they had to be right and everybody else was wrong.
If anything nascar rose in popularity following the late 90s
@@Tayd0g NASCAR hit paydirt late 90s early 00s, because business decisions, fortunate circumstances and the like allowed for the expansion. This is going to belong, so apologies for that. Kind of what I was referring to, hardcore fans are going to watch irrelevant of what the cars look like as long as it says Ford or Chevy on the hood, the racing is good and there's plenty of entertainment and colorful characters to go around. The hardcore fans will continue watching until the product is so bad that they give up. And NASCAR had plenty of good racing and characters the audience could identify with to go around, even if the cars and the increasingly bland "family friendly" aspects AND the tracks were becoming off putting and cookie cutter to what was first, a small portion of the audience. The other thing was, what other racing with U.S. drivers, manufacturers and teams was the potential, not the hardcore motor racing fans going to watch? Streaming races over the internet in a watchable quality was still unheard of and things like open wheel racing in the U.S. with all due respect to the drivers and teams, was becoming such bad drizzling shits , many just gave up (and never went back).
Just an old guy venting 😀
I enjoy all your videos! It's great you can get these figures to share their stories while they are still here to tell them. No one else seems to be dedicated to bringing them to us as you do. Thanks for taking the time to bring us "a look behind the curtain".
Thanks man
You are doing an awesome job at getting all the NASCAR history documented to be here forever. Thank you.
Thanks keith we appreciate you
That was the beginning of the end of NASCAR for me. Love all your hard work and quality content.
Much appreciated! We are glad you're here Scott
Love you guys...
It won't be too long before these guys are gone.
Without you two going out and getting the history it'll just be gone...
So, keep it up.
It reminds me why I used to love watching Nascar when I was a kid.
I can't force myself to watch..... whatever it is they're doing now....
I believe it was early February of 1998... I and my cousin went out to Rockingham to watch a pre-season test. I was interested in going because they would have the new Taurus on track. The Taurus that made the most laps was completely brown. I've always wondered who was behind the wheel. Watching this video makes it even cooler I was able to see some of the first laps the new ford ran on a track that wasn't Daytona.
That test was also memorable because of one other reason. I had decided to go underneath the turn, one stands, and lean right up against the fence. I remember being able to look straight down the banking from my view. It was such a neat view, watching the cars decelerate into the turn, one. I think I was 15 at the time and it was the closest I had ever been to the racing surface. One car completely lost the back end as it decelerated into turn one, and I ended up in a cloud of smoke by the time the car had finished sliding just inches from where I was at the fence. Honestly, it scared the daylights out of me. But it's still one of the coolest moments I've had at a track.
Man thats awesome
Yay, another video. My daughter was just asking me if y'all put out a video lately. We are at Children's Hospital and this helps pass the time.
Best wishes.
@ William Ivy, hope all is well with your daughter sir... Just saying hello 👍 from Virginia
@@kevinbarrett5001 thank you. Unfortunately we won't be able to get her medicine today that she needs when we go home but hopefully something will happen and we will be able to get it. Cancer sucks
Thank you all!!!
Chevy kinda did the same thing in 2013 with the Chevrolet SS aka the Holden Commodore. Only difference is that car actually saw real production, was a bit of a beast too.
Intrepid. Charger. Fusion. Camry. They were all fake coupes after the Taurus cracked the egg
Don Miller and Roger Penske both have done a lot for racing. They both probably have enough stories for all of us. They are a wealth of knowledge.
Very much enjoyed hearing Mr Miller. Been going to the races since I was 5 yrs old. First race... Ona, WV The King won and that's the day I became a LIFE long 43 fan. I had a customer of mine bring me a program from that race and it has Wendell Scott autograph on the back, PLUS I have some pictures from that day also.
Don Miller gave me his Book when we visited the Hall of Fame Museum last year, it‘s sparked my love for Nascar! I knew a little bit about Nascar but it was not very well broadcasted here in Germany. And your Videos helped to get me more into it.
That’s awesome!!
Y'all never disappoint! One amazing story after another!! I absolutely love everything y'all do & what you stand for!! I'm hoping 1 day I'm able to get a little extra money to be able to buy some merch from y'all! It's a little tough right now because I'm disabled & have twin boys that are special needs & disabled & my wife is having a lot of health issues right now. I don't think you know how much y'all help me & others with what y'all do! It gives me a little break from my reality & helps immensely! Thanks again for everything y'all do for me, my family & the history of NASCAR!!!
We appreciate you being here either way man
Thank you guys for continuing to make these videos! Some of these stories might otherwise die with the people that hold them if not for you all documenting it on video. Your work does not go unnoticed!
Thanks man!!
my fur daughter is named Shelby... she's getting older now, so she's slowed down a bit. but she definitely lived up to her name when she was younger. and she still can move when she wants to. used to have a boy named Brother that was quite a bit taller, so he could beat her down the straights, but she'd get him in the turns. both awesome pups.
When you find someone who was not only there for everything but can retell it so well in an interesting way you have to listen and record it if possible.
As always, a fascinating piece. Don probably has a ton of stories to tell and I'm glad you guys are capturing them on video for all of us history nuts to hear.
Had a 97 thunderbird
Couldn’t kill it ,
tough as nails
Had a v6 engine automatic on the floor
Use to manual shift it banging off the rev limiter , that car could do donuts
Was very surprised with that car
I've always been a fan of Nascar but I really became a fan when Kevin Harvick was driving the 29 car after Earnhardt SR. passed away and since then I've been a harvick fan and now I find myself rooting for Ty Gibbs I'm happy I found your channe so I know the history of my favorite sport
Don Miller is a genius. Thanks Mitchell for another great interview!
Thanks for being here Richard!
Old schools like Don shouldn't be blown off because you've go other better things to do. Grab a sweet tea sit down, shut up and listen. History does repeat itself. But by listening we help make the future better.
Absolutely
Love what you two are doing. Visiting the people that made racing what it was, is SO important to we enthusiasts.
Thank you Jennifer!
Love the channel Brother, the two of you do great work. Gotta let the newer generations learn about the sport.
Love the things you cover. I went to my first race in 66 in Bristol, TN and have been a fan ever since. Some ups and downs thru the years but still love it. Keep up the great work.
Thanks man we will
I love that you bring those historical stories to life. Keep them coming, they're awesome!!!
I am all for you doing more Don Miller videos!
Just keep coming back as a new fan to nascar I learn so much from y'all. Thanks from Louisiana.
Man, you guys are really making me miss the NASCAR I grew up with. Keep up the great work and God bless.
Thanks, you too!
Went here back in December, saw this car in the parking lot and thought nothing of it. It’s really cool to hear it’s story.
I never knew how the standard template came about. That's a great interview, as always. Thanks to you both and to Don.
Thanks man 💪🏻
Awesome stuff! Keep up the great work!
Don Miller is the Living Legend for sure!
Thanks for the awesome videos!
A story of the tail wagging the dog…
Sometimes it’s better, to hope for forgiveness, then ask for permission.
Great story!
Reminded me of some of the Smokey Yunick stories.
Awesome stories come to life on this channel! Thank you guys so much for sharing with the rest of the world.
This your biggest fan in northern Calif. Jeff!
We are glad you're here Jeff!
Thanks for the hard work. I'm from this area and love NASCAR & history. Alot of the stuff you guys talk about I was too young to remember so listen to these stores just bring back all these memories of being 6/7 yrs old at Charlotte infield or N. Wilkesboro and Rockingham with my dad.
Great story teller. Could listen to him for hours. Definitely Hall of Fame. Please more on Don
Thank you for the Don Miller videos. Before these videos I did not Know about the Ford Superbird or the process to create the first Taurus stock cars. I'd like to hear more stories from Don. JM
You will! Thanks man
That car is a piece of history!! I wish it was brought inside, but I’m glad it’s still around to tell its story!
it will be in the museum soon
Was waiting for this episode. I remember the Monte Carlo was totally dominant. When the new body came out the tables turned. Agreed guys like him Lee Holman have such a wealth of history. I'm glad you both are recording them before they take the checkered flag of life.
Actually the monte Carlo wasn't dominant but they kept penalizing the T-Bird because the Chevy guys cried. These are facts. The Thunderbird dominated the speedways.
@@davescott686 Dale Earnhardt and Gordon was very successful at the time.
@@hotrod7938 I'm not saying they wasn't successful what I am telling you is they kept penalizing the Thunderbird you can look back on the record book. The car was so dominant they kept taking away from it. That's all I'm saying.
@@hotrod7938 and Dale Earnhardt was one of the biggest crybabies look it up.
@@davescott686 Fuzzy memory and chevy envy are what I'm seeing here
This is unbelievable! Thank you, thank you, thank you for sharing this with us!!
I absolutely love listening to the stories that are told while I’m truckin around the country.
I promise to buy some merch one day soon.
(I am not watching but definitely listening
while I’m driving)
We appreciate you!
The new white shirt fits amazingly and the material has great quality, so happy with getting that and the note with some stickers from you both. Thanks for continuing to bring these stories back to life for our enjoyment. Much appreciated!
Thanks David we are glad you’re here!
Another gem found. Nice work! Interesting how they saw what was special about the 95-up Monte Carlo and they were able to get even more of it with that not-Taurus. It'd be interesting to see if there's anything out there about the 2000 Monte Carlo development. I remember seeing articles or quickie interviews about it's early development and how Nascar didn't like it. I believe there it was a Mike Skinner interview where he stated that "Nascar has stolen all the specialness of this car from the rear window." That's really stuck with me and I've always wondered about it.
Love your channel the stories the people the history and you guys! The passion you two have for what you do is great and genuine I rarely binge watch anything but I can watch your videos for hours! Please keep it up and keep being you! I'll keep watching and spreading the word about you guys! That is so much!
Thank you so much!!
Another great racing history show. This channel is the best. Y’all doing great work
Much appreciated!
Always love the startup sound of the starter and flexplate...don't know why, just sounds cool
Right!
Great video! Interesting to see this channel change but I really appreciate the direction your going.
Thank you Daniel
It really has got me pumped about NASCAR again. Your channel and the Dale JR download are my favorites. My son is 1 year old and we watch classic races every night and play with 90’s die cast cars. He loves it! It makes me happy to see that. It was an important part of my childhood. Btw, was that your Lake Speed video he was commenting about on the Fatback episode? Thank you both for all your efforts and hard work!
Love the history lesson, well worth the watch!! Talk about learning something new everyday
Love the Nascar videos. I always look forward to them. Brings me back to the Nascar I use to love.
Mitch I discovered your channel when you did the first dw van video. Been watching every video since. Love what you guys do. I'm 39 and went to a lot of races. I love learning things I didn't know. You've solved a lot of mysteries in my head and things I didn't know back then. I remember and wondered why sterling marlin's car sounded so different at Talladega in 1995
Thank you Anthony!! you da man
Remember seeing the Ford "Superbird" video, thanks for the reference! Great to see you guys compile another wonderful history video about NASCAR, much appreciated by me! Thank you & Logan once again for all the hard work you two put into these episodes, and, yes, I'm one of those guys who is here until the end of the video until you sign off and say see you in the next one.
Keep up the great work, am there with you each episode!😎👍👍👍
Thank you Mark!!
Everytime i hear about ford presenting ideas i think of the diner scene between ken miles and carol shelby in ford v ferrari.
Anything late 90's I love hearing these type of stories because I started watching NASCAR in late 1996. So hearing this stuff of when I was just getting into the sport is very cool. Keep up the great work! Keep the stories coming!
Glad you enjoyed it! We will!
Keep the nascar history alive this is a great channel I’m hooked an yes I watch it all the way
That taurus should be in a museum
It will be
The coolest thing is you're getting these stories on video for later generations. Good job buddy! Love ever one of them! 🍺🇺🇸
Glad you like them!
Can't wait for the roof flaps video. I've heard it was because of Rusty's two huge airborne barrel roll wrecks at Daytona and Talladega in '93 that made NASCAR come up with them.
Yes!
Yeah, Don has a great deal of knowledge and it is always great to hear what he has to say. Thanks for the heads up on the book too. I will be sure and read it since I read about NASCAR in junior Hight School 50 years ago.
Our pleasure!
I appreciate the time your taking on Nascar history. Rules kill more than. Just sports it's sad really I miss the old days of racing
I love the massaging of rules for Nascar. Makes such great stories
I totally agree!
Really interesting and cool story. While the Penske/Miller version obviously became the final NASCAR approved Taurus, they were not the only ones experimenting. I was working at the Atlanta Assembly Plant in the late 80’s when the Bill Elliot team came to the plant and loaded up a truck full of Taurus body sheet metal parts to take back to their shop and work on. I never saw the end result of their work , if there was one but, they sure took a lot of sheet metal from our plant body shop.
Interesting. Since that would have been way before the Taurus made it to cup
@@Stapleton42 Exactly, and at the time I was a die hard Bill Elliott fan and thought it was odd they would want Taurus parts. But I think now they were just experimenting rather than a full on effort to replace the T-Bird. But maybe just looking to see what could be done with a next generation body style since the Taurus was new in 86 and this was probably somewhere in the ‘88-‘90 time frame but I can’t remember the exact year. At the plant level I would not have known the end of life for the T-Bird was coming but later moving back to Dearborn and staff Engineering we were aware of the long range program life and possibly Ford had tipped off the Elliotts team to start thinking about a replacement. I got a cool signed poster from them out of it. Including not only all the brothers but also their mom and dad. Might be the only family signed poster like it. Anyway love your videos and glad you started down this history trail.
Some real interesting history from these guys, I learn something new about NASCAR every time I watch.
thanks man!
Some great history there. Would love to hear more from him. Keep up the good work. Love the videos.
Looking forward to your next video ! You’re doing a great job on your channel !
The 98 had a second or third life in racing Vintage with Sovern and other associations. It first raced in vintage at Coronado. What a day that was!
You should ask Don to tell you the story about finding the Open Sport Ford Can Am car and the attack Zebra
Another great vid. I loved those old Taurus race cars back in the day.