I don't know what is right but the altar call always makes me feel uncomfortable. I didn't see the point of doing it over and over, lasting 10, 20, 30 minutes and still no one comes. I dread so many routine activities in the Baptist services.
I think people tend to build practices around what they believe to be effective. In the case of altar calls, it is effective in producing professions of faith. The issue is that Scripture puts very little stock in professions of faith. Scripture says that he who begins a good work in you will be faithful to complete it. Scripture says the seed falls on the soil and many different plants spring up, but only some endure and produce fruit. The church has gotten so fixated on equating a profession of faith, with the work of the Holy Spirit, that it no longer even understands what it actually looks like for someone to get saved and to grow in the faith and mature spiritually. I'm going to link two videos below that you might enjoy. They are about what it looks like to grow in spirtual maturity from a baby to an adult and how the physical growth process is a picture of the spiritual growth process. Stages of Life - From Infancy to Adolescence: ua-cam.com/video/5AXePIrpfJU/v-deo.html Stages of Life - Young Adulthood to Old Age: ua-cam.com/video/CNT7z5bGZsY/v-deo.html These were both incredibly useful for me. I hope they are for you as well. Charles
I’m most familiar with churches that give an altar call without an altar. The pastor will preach the bare bones of the gospel and then, while he leads everyone in the church in prayer, he asks if anyone wants to be saved (or “receive Christ” or “accept Christ”), and then asks those people to lift their hand while everyone else keeps their eye closed and heads bowed. It always felt uncomfortable to me as the pastor might say, “you there in the back, I see you…anyone else?….anyone?…” but he usually didn’t go too long (and no music playing in the background). Then he’d pray a basic prayer confessing sin and asking to be saved by Jesus for those people to follow along. I left that church and became a member at another that doesn’t observe that practice a couple years ago. Another church I’m familiar with does similarly, except he asks the entire congregation (it’s a big church) to repeat the prayer out loud at the same time. It feels disingenuous, as many are already Christians and don’t need to pray a “sinner’s prayer” asking for salvation. The pastor says it’s because he wants those who are sincerely (hopefully…) praying the prayer to feel comfortable with the whole church coming along side them. I really do appreciate his heart in that, and think he’s well-intentioned, as are the congregants who join in the prayer-but I think it’s a flawed view.
As a child, it made me feel as if I had to go up . Thankfully, I never did, but I was later deceived into thinking "the prayer" saved you. Thank God He opened my eyes and saved me when He saw fit for me to be 🙌🙌❤️
Jesus commanded us to go make disciples first and then to equip the church. one of the main reasons why many people don’t want alter calls is because they are not interested in seeking the presence of the Holy Spirit or waiting on Him. It takes time for this and most people today have more important things to do. The ministry of the Holy Spirit has been replaced by the ministry of the pastor or teacher. But Jesus was c b very clear when hHe said without me you can do noting. He was making a reference to The Holy Spirit He was going to send us to take his place. And we wonder way the churches are so spiritually dead now a days. People are going from church to church seeking to quench the thirsting of their soul, but find no water. The apóstol Paul said in 2Timothy 4:3-4. I believe we are now living this time. Pentecost Acts 2 made the spirit filled disciples look horrible, people thought they were all drunk, and drunk people do not behave orderly. But the power of God to save the lost, heal the sick, and deliver the captive was with them to bring God glory. The only glory we see today is the glory of men. T I mean, we glory in this and that preacher. But where is the power of God? So I say, give me the old time religion!! even if it makes me cry with snot dripping down my face, shout, jump for joy in The Holy spirit. Speak in other tongues. We need the Ministry of the glorious Holy Spirit today. ❤️🙏
I think you seriously need to consider your argument when you say that the Holy Spirit made the apostles look horrible because people said they are drunk and drunk people don't act orderly. Disorderliness is from Satan. The verse that says God is not the author of confusion could be translated God is not the author of disorder. It is much more likely that there were people there who heard them speaking the different language and didn't understand it and so they said they were babbling. This is very common when scoffers don't want to understand what's going on so they accuse the people who are acting orderly of acting disorderly.
@@TheConqueringTruth Where does the Bible say that disorderliness is of Satan? And no, confusion and disorder or two different things. I can testify that drunk people are loud, they can’t walk right, they can be very joyful or very angry. They can be a cited about something or very depressed. So the believers of Pentecost were full of the Holy Spirit, rejoicing, excited, proclaiming the wonderful works of God. They would not fit in with the dead churches of today because they would get accused of drawing attention to themselves. The Bible says Do not greave The Holy Spirit and do not quench the Holy Spirit. But you all go ahead and do as you will, but don’t encourage others to do the same. James 3:1 I love you all because you are my brothers in Christ. So I will consider what you said to me in response to what I said and I pray you all will do the same. Love in Christ.
Altar calls are throughout scripture no denomination can claim altar calls ...If you don't believe in Gods literal call when preached to ....that instead it's a preponderance of what you believe by what you read.... then you're not saved period! Read John 5:37 and John 5:39 to understand your righteousness must be greater than the Pharisees. A perfect example of people who professed Jesus and were not his is Mat 7:21-23. Abraham shows you by his sacrificing his son the altar call... He hears God say to him go and sacrifice your son he walks the aisle raises the knife and is justified by God Gen 22:18 Rom 4:13 Gal 3:2,3,5 think Paul's coming to faith. He's on his way to persecute Christians in Damascus he sees a blinding light can no longer see but hears the voice of the Lord Jesus who says to him go into the city and it will be told what thou must do... Did his belief standing in front of him save him? (he calls him Lord twice did that save him or did he have to obey the Lord Heb 11:40 acts 9:15 Gal 3:5 ) Paul listened to the voice of Jesus walked the aisle and received the baptism of the Holy Spirit by Ananias who was led to preach to him ministering him the spirit by the hearing of faith....Jesus clearly said John 6:63 the words that I speak unto you they are spirit and they are life.. he shows you in scripture how to try the spirits when he asked his own disciples whom say ye that I am and Peter knew who he was Mat 16:17 John 6:45,65 because God was already teaching him ( what God hath cleansed) You either believe that God had made his children vessels in which the lost come to faith by hearing God's literal call through the believer or you can throw out these verses and continue believing your nonsense Acts 15:7-9 by my mouth they hear THE WORD OF THE GOSPEL and believe... God which knoweth the hearts bares them witness 1 John 4:6 he that knoweth God heareth us hereby know we the spirit of truth Rom 10:17 faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God (not the bible Romans was written to those IN THE LORD IN ROME not to be placed in the holy bible think Sauls coming to faith he preaches what he knows Gal 1:8,15,16) Acts 10:19,20 THE SPIRIT SAID UNTO HIM ....three men seek thee arise therefore and get thee down going with them doubting nothing for I have sent them... 1 Peter 1:22 seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the spirit... Gal 3:2,3 this only would I learn of you receive ye the spirit by the works of the law or the hearing of faith are ye so foolish having begun in the spirit are ye now made perfect by the flesh... these are all verses talking about people coming to faith by hearing the call of God Heb 4:2 unto us was the gospel preached as well as unto them but the word preached did not profit them not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.. Heb 4:7 today if you hear his voice harden not your hearts.. Real faith hears the call of God when preached to whether it be at an altar call (how I came to faith) or in the flesh preaching Jesus 1 John 4:2 ... an altar call is the call of God and it's the start of the Christian walk! Not all churches who do the altar call are true churches but true churches who know it's by his call exist.... John 15:26 John 8:47 John 14:17 ...If you read this carefully, you'll see I showed 4 different people all preaching the same thing!
You quote a lot of good Bible verses and say a lot of things I think I agree with, but you say weird things like, "He [Abraham] hears God say to him go and sacrifice your son *he walks the aisle* raises the knife and is justified by God" There's nothing in that story to tie it to someone walking an aisle. Then later you say, "Real faith hears the call of God when preached to whether it be at an altar call (how I came to faith) or in the flesh preaching" And I say, Amen to that. There have absolutely been people who heard God's word and were saved but the altar call had nothing to do with it, it was the preaching of the word of God and the work of the Holy Spirit. We were really clear in our podcast, there is a specific set of practices we were condemning and none of them prevent Christians from being saved, instead they call into question the power of the Holy Spirit by pretending that walking down and aislse and praying a prayer is proof of salvation, they fill the church with false converts who have done nothing more than walk and aisle and prayed a prayer, they assure those who are still condemned that they are no longer under the wrath of God, and they tempt the church to measure the efficacy of their preaching and services by the number of "conversion" they record.
@@TheConqueringTruth obviously you dont understand a thing if you cant understand Gods call is the altar call I represented the exact way I came to faith by what you see with Paul Cornelius and Abraham Rom 4:13 Examine yourselves whether ye be in the faith Obviously you don't believe in Gods call and you believe your reading scripture and believing what it says amounts to faith John 5:39
If you cant see it has nothing to do with what you preach and that its the hearing of faith as Saul listened to Jesus as Cornelius listened to the Angel of the Lord and not understanding what God hath cleansed call thou not common in order for Saul to have listened to Jesus according to Jesus John 14:17 is truth which you see in Gal 1:15,16 and what he preaches not only to the Galatians but to the Romans... When I came to faith the pastor didnt preach to me about how I needed to repent of sins is because God before I came to that altar call was already teaching me John 6:45,65 what you see with Peter Here in mat 16:17 Jesus trying the spirits 1 John 4:6 when the service began all they did was sing songs and during the fourth song the pastor yelled out does anyone want to come up and be saved.... it was not that pastor that made me go up there in a church ive never been in before.... sitting in the back pew.... it was hearing Gods literal call ...and everything I showed above represent that.... it aint what you preach its whether God is already working in their lives and they hear his call when preached to... this is what Justifies them Acts 15:7-9 Heb 4:2,7 by my mouth they hear THE WORD OF THE GOSPEL acts 10:19,20 1 Pet 1:22 and believe ....
Paul says that one sows and another waters and neither matter, but God gives the increase. We're in complete agreement on that. And we agree that God has often begun doing the work prior to the day when the person believes , that's one of the points we are making. Like I said, some of the things you are saying are true. God is the one who calls that's pretty central to scripture. None of that has anything to do with the practice of altar calls. Im glad God called you. Don't encourage people to do altar calls, just do what God has commanded.
@@TheConqueringTruth all of what Im saying is true it is by the call of God and hearing... the didache not in the bible... says for he comes not to call according to the outward appearance, but to them whom the Spirit has prepared... which is everything I said above Jesus plainly said when he is come he shall testify of me! How can I preached against what I know as truth for some the altar call is the only way they will hear!
How does discussing this topic through the lens of God's word and declaring our conclusion kill the Holy Spirit, Joel? God says he desires to be worshipped in Spirit and in truth. How are we doing anything against his commandments?
@@TheConqueringTruth Then How is it you characterize my comment as swearing ? Sure as the ocean has salt, sure as there stones in Israel, sure as birds fly, Calvinism reformed theology are sure as hell, from the satan spirit.
I don’t believe people can make any decision - God gives people to the son. 😊
I don't know what is right but the altar call always makes me feel uncomfortable. I didn't see the point of doing it over and over, lasting 10, 20, 30 minutes and still no one comes. I dread so many routine activities in the Baptist services.
I think people tend to build practices around what they believe to be effective. In the case of altar calls, it is effective in producing professions of faith. The issue is that Scripture puts very little stock in professions of faith. Scripture says that he who begins a good work in you will be faithful to complete it. Scripture says the seed falls on the soil and many different plants spring up, but only some endure and produce fruit. The church has gotten so fixated on equating a profession of faith, with the work of the Holy Spirit, that it no longer even understands what it actually looks like for someone to get saved and to grow in the faith and mature spiritually. I'm going to link two videos below that you might enjoy. They are about what it looks like to grow in spirtual maturity from a baby to an adult and how the physical growth process is a picture of the spiritual growth process.
Stages of Life - From Infancy to Adolescence: ua-cam.com/video/5AXePIrpfJU/v-deo.html
Stages of Life - Young Adulthood to Old Age: ua-cam.com/video/CNT7z5bGZsY/v-deo.html
These were both incredibly useful for me. I hope they are for you as well.
Charles
@@TheConqueringTruthThank you.
I’m most familiar with churches that give an altar call without an altar. The pastor will preach the bare bones of the gospel and then, while he leads everyone in the church in prayer, he asks if anyone wants to be saved (or “receive Christ” or “accept Christ”), and then asks those people to lift their hand while everyone else keeps their eye closed and heads bowed. It always felt uncomfortable to me as the pastor might say, “you there in the back, I see you…anyone else?….anyone?…” but he usually didn’t go too long (and no music playing in the background). Then he’d pray a basic prayer confessing sin and asking to be saved by Jesus for those people to follow along. I left that church and became a member at another that doesn’t observe that practice a couple years ago.
Another church I’m familiar with does similarly, except he asks the entire congregation (it’s a big church) to repeat the prayer out loud at the same time. It feels disingenuous, as many are already Christians and don’t need to pray a “sinner’s prayer” asking for salvation. The pastor says it’s because he wants those who are sincerely (hopefully…) praying the prayer to feel comfortable with the whole church coming along side them. I really do appreciate his heart in that, and think he’s well-intentioned, as are the congregants who join in the prayer-but I think it’s a flawed view.
Wow!
You guys just don't mess around!
Oh how I needed to hear this stuff!
Thank you dear Lord Jesus for these men!
Awesome video!
Thank you for the comments, we appreciate it. May God bless!
I was a victim of the altar call and guilty of deceiving myself.
Praise God for his mercy!
yes, "just as I am" was the song they played every Sunday at a church I went to growing up for the alter call
As a child, it made me feel as if I had to go up . Thankfully, I never did, but I was later deceived into thinking "the prayer" saved you. Thank God He opened my eyes and saved me when He saw fit for me to be 🙌🙌❤️
Jesus commanded us to go make disciples first and then to equip the church. one of the main reasons why many people don’t want alter calls is because they are not interested in seeking the presence of the Holy Spirit or waiting on Him. It takes time for this and most people today have more important things to do. The ministry of the Holy Spirit has been replaced by the ministry of the pastor or teacher. But Jesus was c b very clear when hHe said without me you can do noting. He was making a reference to The Holy Spirit He was going to send us to take his place. And we wonder way the churches are so spiritually dead now a days. People are going from church to church seeking to quench the thirsting of their soul, but find no water. The apóstol Paul said in 2Timothy 4:3-4. I believe we are now living this time. Pentecost Acts 2 made the spirit filled disciples look horrible, people thought they were all drunk, and drunk people do not behave orderly. But the power of God to save the lost, heal the sick, and deliver the captive was with them to bring God glory. The only glory we see today is the glory of men. T I mean, we glory in this and that preacher. But where is the power of God? So I say, give me the old time religion!! even if it makes me cry with snot dripping down my face, shout, jump for joy in The Holy spirit. Speak in other tongues. We need the Ministry of the glorious Holy Spirit today. ❤️🙏
I think you seriously need to consider your argument when you say that the Holy Spirit made the apostles look horrible because people said they are drunk and drunk people don't act orderly.
Disorderliness is from Satan. The verse that says God is not the author of confusion could be translated God is not the author of disorder. It is much more likely that there were people there who heard them speaking the different language and didn't understand it and so they said they were babbling. This is very common when scoffers don't want to understand what's going on so they accuse the people who are acting orderly of acting disorderly.
@@TheConqueringTruth Where does the Bible say that disorderliness is of Satan? And no, confusion and disorder or two different things. I can testify that drunk people are loud, they can’t walk right, they can be very joyful or very angry. They can be a cited about something or very depressed. So the believers of Pentecost were full of the Holy Spirit, rejoicing, excited, proclaiming the wonderful works of God. They would not fit in with the dead churches of today because they would get accused of drawing attention to themselves. The Bible says Do not greave The Holy Spirit and do not quench the Holy Spirit. But you all go ahead and do as you will, but don’t encourage others to do the same. James 3:1 I love you all because you are my brothers in Christ. So I will consider what you said to me in response to what I said and I pray you all will do the same. Love in Christ.
Altar calls are throughout scripture no denomination can claim altar calls ...If you don't believe in Gods literal call when preached to ....that instead it's a preponderance of what you believe by what you read.... then you're not saved period! Read John 5:37 and John 5:39 to understand your righteousness must be greater than the Pharisees. A perfect example of people who professed Jesus and were not his is Mat 7:21-23. Abraham shows you by his sacrificing his son the altar call... He hears God say to him go and sacrifice your son he walks the aisle raises the knife and is justified by God Gen 22:18 Rom 4:13 Gal 3:2,3,5 think Paul's coming to faith. He's on his way to persecute Christians in Damascus he sees a blinding light can no longer see but hears the voice of the Lord Jesus who says to him go into the city and it will be told what thou must do... Did his belief standing in front of him save him? (he calls him Lord twice did that save him or did he have to obey the Lord Heb 11:40 acts 9:15 Gal 3:5 ) Paul listened to the voice of Jesus walked the aisle and received the baptism of the Holy Spirit by Ananias who was led to preach to him ministering him the spirit by the hearing of faith....Jesus clearly said John 6:63 the words that I speak unto you they are spirit and they are life.. he shows you in scripture how to try the spirits when he asked his own disciples whom say ye that I am and Peter knew who he was Mat 16:17 John 6:45,65 because God was already teaching him ( what God hath cleansed) You either believe that God had made his children vessels in which the lost come to faith by hearing God's literal call through the believer or you can throw out these verses and continue believing your nonsense Acts 15:7-9 by my mouth they hear THE WORD OF THE GOSPEL and believe... God which knoweth the hearts bares them witness 1 John 4:6 he that knoweth God heareth us hereby know we the spirit of truth Rom 10:17 faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God (not the bible Romans was written to those IN THE LORD IN ROME not to be placed in the holy bible think Sauls coming to faith he preaches what he knows Gal 1:8,15,16) Acts 10:19,20 THE SPIRIT SAID UNTO HIM ....three men seek thee arise therefore and get thee down going with them doubting nothing for I have sent them... 1 Peter 1:22 seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the spirit... Gal 3:2,3 this only would I learn of you receive ye the spirit by the works of the law or the hearing of faith are ye so foolish having begun in the spirit are ye now made perfect by the flesh... these are all verses talking about people coming to faith by hearing the call of God Heb 4:2 unto us was the gospel preached as well as unto them but the word preached did not profit them not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.. Heb 4:7 today if you hear his voice harden not your hearts.. Real faith hears the call of God when preached to whether it be at an altar call (how I came to faith) or in the flesh preaching Jesus 1 John 4:2 ... an altar call is the call of God and it's the start of the Christian walk! Not all churches who do the altar call are true churches but true churches who know it's by his call exist.... John 15:26 John 8:47 John 14:17 ...If you read this carefully, you'll see I showed 4 different people all preaching the same thing!
You quote a lot of good Bible verses and say a lot of things I think I agree with, but you say weird things like, "He [Abraham] hears God say to him go and sacrifice your son *he walks the aisle* raises the knife and is justified by God" There's nothing in that story to tie it to someone walking an aisle.
Then later you say, "Real faith hears the call of God when preached to whether it be at an altar call (how I came to faith) or in the flesh preaching" And I say, Amen to that. There have absolutely been people who heard God's word and were saved but the altar call had nothing to do with it, it was the preaching of the word of God and the work of the Holy Spirit.
We were really clear in our podcast, there is a specific set of practices we were condemning and none of them prevent Christians from being saved, instead they call into question the power of the Holy Spirit by pretending that walking down and aislse and praying a prayer is proof of salvation, they fill the church with false converts who have done nothing more than walk and aisle and prayed a prayer, they assure those who are still condemned that they are no longer under the wrath of God, and they tempt the church to measure the efficacy of their preaching and services by the number of "conversion" they record.
@@TheConqueringTruth obviously you dont understand a thing if you cant understand Gods call is the altar call I represented the exact way I came to faith by what you see with Paul Cornelius and Abraham Rom 4:13 Examine yourselves whether ye be in the faith Obviously you don't believe in Gods call and you believe your reading scripture and believing what it says amounts to faith John 5:39
If you cant see it has nothing to do with what you preach and that its the hearing of faith as Saul listened to Jesus as Cornelius listened to the Angel of the Lord and not understanding what God hath cleansed call thou not common in order for Saul to have listened to Jesus according to Jesus John 14:17 is truth which you see in Gal 1:15,16 and what he preaches not only to the Galatians but to the Romans... When I came to faith the pastor didnt preach to me about how I needed to repent of sins is because God before I came to that altar call was already teaching me John 6:45,65 what you see with Peter Here in mat 16:17 Jesus trying the spirits 1 John 4:6 when the service began all they did was sing songs and during the fourth song the pastor yelled out does anyone want to come up and be saved.... it was not that pastor that made me go up there in a church ive never been in before.... sitting in the back pew.... it was hearing Gods literal call ...and everything I showed above represent that.... it aint what you preach its whether God is already working in their lives and they hear his call when preached to... this is what Justifies them Acts 15:7-9 Heb 4:2,7 by my mouth they hear THE WORD OF THE GOSPEL acts 10:19,20 1 Pet 1:22 and believe ....
Paul says that one sows and another waters and neither matter, but God gives the increase. We're in complete agreement on that. And we agree that God has often begun doing the work prior to the day when the person believes , that's one of the points we are making. Like I said, some of the things you are saying are true. God is the one who calls that's pretty central to scripture. None of that has anything to do with the practice of altar calls. Im glad God called you. Don't encourage people to do altar calls, just do what God has commanded.
@@TheConqueringTruth all of what Im saying is true it is by the call of God and hearing... the didache not in the bible... says for he comes not to call according to the outward appearance, but to them whom the Spirit has prepared... which is everything I said above Jesus plainly said when he is come he shall testify of me! How can I preached against what I know as truth for some the altar call is the only way they will hear!
Ur pontificating kills the Holy Spirit in the living word and the move of Almighty God.
Is there anything to hear more powerfully than the very words of God from his Word?
How does discussing this topic through the lens of God's word and declaring our conclusion kill the Holy Spirit, Joel? God says he desires to be worshipped in Spirit and in truth. How are we doing anything against his commandments?
Can you explain why you think that, please?
No, but calvinism sure as hell, is!
Swearing at us doesn't help your argument...
@@TheConqueringTruth Do you deny hell?
I understand what you're saying now. I misread at first, but can you explain why you say that? They explained why the alter call is wrong
@truthseeker5698
Of course we don't deny hell.
@@TheConqueringTruth Then How is it you characterize my comment as swearing ?
Sure as the ocean has salt, sure as there stones in Israel, sure as birds fly,
Calvinism reformed theology are sure as hell, from the satan spirit.