It’s a nice touch when Bernard realises that he is experiencing his memories in a unique manner, unsure if they are in fact memories or reality. It puts him in a similar position to the viewer and so invokes within the viewer a sense of empathy and sympathy for a character who’s motives remain unclear, who has done some terrible deeds and in fact may well continue to do so.
There's something odd about Elsie in this episode. She looks way to put together to have spent any time - let alone several days in a cave. As someone on the Reddit commented, she looks like she just stepped out of a Sephora shop. I think we'll find out that there are some holes in her timeline as well.
Michael Zdanis - Yes, she looked particularly well groomed for someone who's been chained up in a cave for a while! I suppose it's possible that they had her unconscious somewhere for a while then just woke her up when they found Bernard, but that's stretching it a bit...
I think this part is just part of being a show. If she was adequately "dirty/frumpled" then she would have to stay that way the rest of the show. Better to let Ms. Woodward look good. Without a confirmed timeline we also aren't sure if the kidnapping didn't happen the day before the Gala. We never are told even by her how long she was there. My feeling is only a day or two. William (old) visited James Delos on the 35th day. Instead of "torching" the room he said to observe his last few days to see if anything could be learned. It was the same tech that was dead too. Hard to tell if Bernard had the host drones kill him or if James Delos killed him.
I noticed that too, as well she did not seem to upset at Clementine or any other host taking care of her. Still this was one good episode. However the show over all is not as strong without Anthony Hopkins. I know "Ford" is involved in spirit but Anthony Hopkins is a AAA actor that gave the show a strong foundation
Hi Christian - If we have learned nothing else from the showrunners it's that the one thing that seems to be 'true' (besides death) is the pain-staking detail they put into this show... her long hair is a clue, along with the few protein packs and her very clean suit, and Bernard is glitching so perhaps the two weeks since Delores killed Ford and we find Bernard on the beach is actually longer than we think... Elsie may be there as Bernard repeats/replays this event over and over again getting a little further to consciousness each time - Ford might have Stubbs and Elsie there to assist the host 'find themselves' but not interfere - For me, it seems that William and his team have James Delos but they can't get the 'human/host' thing worked out and Ford has worked out the issues after 35 years... he has Bernard and that he found a way to put Arnold back in to Bernard's body... I do not think Bernard will go away but the two minds or souls will sync up at some point... we all have a Yin and a Yang in us (darkand light) so maybe that is the secret that Ford discovered going back and looking through Arnold's journal and notes and combining it with what he already knows about the hosts - I also have a gut feeling that the maze was for the host, their journey to consciousness, and the pyramid is for William, his journey is focusing to a single point, the tip of the pyramid, were he may be given the option to leave the park or to stay and be placed into a younger version of himself (young William, when he 1st fell in love with Delores)... might he not be the Yin and Delors is the Yang... are they the new age 'Adam and Eve' that will be the only way the host truly make the next step? ...or is this just another 'false flag' trail that we are supposed to get distracted by? I luv this show! I am only giving your comment a thumbs down because I think that it would be too sloppy of a thing for Jon and Lisa to skip over... EVERY idea has merit still... I still like the idea that Game of Thrones is a Delos Park! LOL as much as I want to shoot this down, I keep 'seeing' things that make me have to at least consider it...
She was only tied up for a few days in realtime, and she really wasn't going anywhere. Considering she was also chained up, left to eat protein bars & void into a bucket. Also on a TV perspective: she's a HUGE fan favorite and I'm sure they wanted to pay her appearance off as a "breath of fresh air". Especially considering how stale & flat the show had seemingly become to most fans. RE: Reddit Babies Edit: Also, the show runners said they'd plant things to throw people off. This seems to include all the wonky things happening in the background. It's to make you question everything you're seeing. It's brilliant actually.
I hadn't noticed before that all of the storylines in this episode are Ford-driven events. It makes it all the more interesting that Delores and Teddy don't appeal in this episode.
When Bernard and Elsie are attempting to get into that locked door where the host hybrid of James Delos is being kept, Bernard says somthing to the effect of "I'm not here with you right now, am I?". This leads me to beleive that Bernard will return to this location in the 'future', possibly leading Charlotte Hale and the other delos emploees?
Skullmonkey - I'd need to watch it again, but on a first view I thought that he was slipping back to the previous time he's been there, rather than forward to the next time ...
I thought he was just confused because Elise wasn't responding to his mumbled requests....love the acting but some lines are too hard to understand. I have to rewatch with subtitles to get all the words.
In Deep Geek Hey Robert, I have just rewatched the scene in question and i am now even more certain that Bernard will return here in the present/future timeline. Right after he says the first line of dialog i mentioned, he says "I'm trying to remember what we found here", I take this as meaning he is remembering his time in the lab with Elsie while peicing his fragmented memories together in the 'now'.
It's three timelines. The first when he's there under Ford's control, the second with Elsie and then another time when he's alone/remembering back. He says "I'm trying to remember what we did here" past tense and not refering to a "we" as in Delos but "we" as in he and Elsie.
The reactive way in which Ford influences what is going on in the park makes me wonder. The red brain that Bernard takes from the lab may well be Ford's mind, but I could imagine that Ford is not being put into a host body, but rather became part of the parks control system (maybe that happen long in the past). I just remember the times when he seems to have mind control over the hosts in season 1 and that may only be possible if he were a hybrid all along.
I watched all of season one again, and am watching episode one season two. William explodes from the pile of bodies after the attack, unscathed from the injuries he supposedly suffered. I think William perfected the cloning, but rejected his boss, and is in fact a host, albeit a deadly one! He's so obsessed, he's gonna play the game with an advantage! It's an interesting theory, and there are many ways to write the story, but the timeline sux! Either way the writers will keep us guessing, cause that's what makes it so much fun! The story will never be predictable! Take a guess that's the best your gonna get!
In the episode 4 Craddock dances with Lawrence's wife exactly the same way that William danced with her in the season 1. How could that be? William is not a host, and Craddock hadn't seen the dance just to copy it. So was it possible that Craddock was able to perform the same dance? What is a significance of that?
I don't think Logan is dead. I think Logan was William's 1st attempt(s) at reanimation. Logan is still in the park & William reanimated him just to cover his ass & begin work on reanimation. Evidence:1) When he is talking to "James Delos", older William says "...he couldn't face reality either"(the same thing he just diagnosed Delos with) and then shifts his eyes in frustration & disillusionment. He wouldn't care enough for Logan to have such a visceral response. He would respond like this if 30+ years of work still only yielded 35 days of reliable product2) It seems like when a reanimated host begins to break down it starts to imbibe substances that harm/kill it. William brings in the bottle repeatedly to test "Delos" (an otherwise health conscientious entity). Since the work on Delos seems to be William's most important, we should assume he came in everyday. The test ends (I.e., the reanimated accepts a drink-or doesn't state "a little too early for me") & the reanimated is terminated when he says yes to the drink. Logan is high for the same reason. He's starting to break down almost immediately. These reanimated hosts-when they begin to break down-descend into hell & their only escape is self destruction & ideally suicideI also find it interesting that in 35+ years of work William only managed to advance "life" by 35 days.Prediction: I think the man in black is on his way to confront the long lost Logan in the park, who is truly the continuation & embodiment of James's Delos. Also, I suspect William's wife died a while ago, he turned her into a "host", she began breaking down & OD'd & killed herself for that reason. Emily/Grace (a fitting name for William's redemptive arc daughter) discovered this and is now ready to confront him. William must look back to go forward. Going back means confronting Emily, his wife, Logan/Jim Delos, &-in a meta sense-Robert Ford. This confrontation is the board meeting/ceremony Ford really wanted for his final exit, stage left
The Bernard and William storylines are by far the most interesting in this series, was such a pleasure to have an episode focussed just on them after last weeks ragtag Dolores/Maeve show, which I find it hard to care about. One thing that connects them though - the fact that Clementine is so directly under Fords control that she protects bernard - for me this suggests Dolores herself is less 'free' than she thinks she is - as her quite crude and scripted behaviour since shooting ford suggests also. If the presence of the confederados in the town with William was a key part of that storyline also, then it means Dolores' actions at the fort were a necessary part of Ford's plans - so maybe she is still just a pawn in his story?
It also means that Ford also scripted Teddy to release those specific prisoners so that they could get to Lawrence's hometown. So by this theory, both Teddy and Delores are still mostly scripted.
Kevin Kozlowski yes exactly. And Dolores being supposedly the premier example of a 'conscious' host, it follows that perhaps the entire idea of hosts with free will is actually a fake out and part of fords narrative. Maeve's actions equally seem quite scripted - I think towards the end of series one it was revealed most of what she'd done was in fact set up by someone else. Not sure exactly what ford wants to achieve with all of this though - educating William is clearly one part, but surely must be something wider to justify all the chaos and death involved!
Hey Robert. I really want to know the timing between Bernard's visits to the black lab. This bodies were not rotting at all, visibly. Maybe it was refrigerated to a point? Must have been before he abducted Elsie. Have you considered putting together a working timeline of events that you can augment, as new info clarifies some aspects of it? Someone needs to be the first, unless it's already being worked on outside the Nolan's sphere.
Jeff Boerst - That's a really good idea. I don't think I have time to do it exactly, but I think Bernard's first visit must have been only just before the massacre, or else someone would have raised the alarm, noticed that the technicians didn't return from their shift etc. I assume that there must have been another way into the lab, rather than just the aboveground entrance in WW.
You missed the mystery door which is a direct allusion to JJ Abrams mystery box. And also, of course, the fact that this Mystery episode was called riddle of the Sphinx. How much more of this JJ Abrams storytelling technique must we endure?
This doesn't actually pertain to the episode, more of a question to the Director. Ed Harris stands 5'9" and Jimmy Simpson is 5'11" it's a visible difference and yet no apparent techniques were used to hide this, why?
Did Logan die? OD doesn't mean death...This episode has so many WTFs...it made less sense than most episodes, and that's quite a statement!! - I hope Lawrence kills the MIB.. Elsie was chained up with a bucket with a few protein bars...come on!!! I think Ford is still in charge. Watch Preston Jacob's video, it's the funniest one ever!!! ua-cam.com/video/L-fpCmSeEj8/v-deo.html
I don't think Logan is dead. The most obvious reason is that there would be little reason to give his character valuable air time if it wouldn't be for a future payoff. Whatever you think of his character or motivations, the simple fact that William said he died from an overdose is a strong tell that he did not. William said the same about Juliet last season, but now we have a bloody bath, something eluding to a slashed wrist type of suicide. Originally, William had said Juliet's death was an accident, but his daughter blamed him for what she believed was actually a suicide. In contrast, William didn't bother beating around the bush in this episode. He stated Juliet's suicide as if it was fact. Soon after, we hear him say that Logan died of an overdose, and the preview for next week reminds us of his original statements about his wife's death. I think they are trying to tell us not to believe William at face value. He wanted to get a rise out of Delos and might have been making things up or not telling the whole truth. I don't think we've heard what really happened to Logan. For all we know, he could have been working against William and his project all this time, maybe with Emily, or even Ford. Whatever he's been up to, dead or alive, I think there is more to Logan's story. (At least, I hope so. William's white hat turned black practically overnight. In 30 years, Logan could have grown up to be quite a different man than we've seen.)
wood1155 If that were true, why have him in any scenes at all? We had all the evidence of his vices in the first season, and his ousting from the biz would have been a good enough excuse for him to give up on life. Without any additional screen time, many would easily believe that he overdosed. But... instead of simply writing him off this season, we're given new scenes. We find out he was the initial investor and had Asian contacts (perhaps why the park found a home on a Chinese island), and not his father who thought it a waste of money even after seeing the quality of the hosts, until William outlined the market research angle. (If Logan wasn't significant going forward, why not just script it as his daddy doing it all as a brilliant business man and Logan just a pampered rich kid gone wild?) We also get a key scene with Delores seeming to regret the whole venture, as the park and their business with it has become something he does not support. (If season 1 wrote him as a self-centered, self-indignant ass, why add this character growth just to kill him off screen in a brief aside?) The writers aren't likely going waste time on anything not important to moving the plot forward, but it is perfectly possible, maybe even likely, that I am completely wrong on Logan's importance to the bigger story. As to Logan as William's antagonist, he seems more a friend trying to push his brother-to-be out of his comfort zone in mother-of-all-bachelor-parties kind of way. He was excited about the park as a place of fun and easy income, and could definitely be an ass, but I would argue that William's biggest foil has always been himself.
I think Ford created Lawrence’s character to mirror the Man in Black’s character. MIB looked kinda shaken when Lawrence talked about why he stayed away from his family.
Claire Futrell Yup. This syncs well with what William said earlier in the season about everyone liking to look at themselves - they want a mirror. Well, it turns out that Lawrence is MIB's mirror, and that when it looks into it - at Lawrence - he does not like what he sees. This is a redemption arc that the two will share together. I think that's why Ford doesn't mind having Lawrence stay around. Indeed, I'd go so far as to say that he _wants_ Lawrence to stay with the MIB until they reach the end of their arc... which ends with the MIB becoming... William. Probably in a new host body. (I'm also hoping that William and Dolores fall in love again upon meeting again, with William in his new body, which I'm guessing will look like when he first met her)
From a viewer standpoint, MIB and Lawrence make a very good team. They have good chemistry together, and are quite entertaining and enjoyable to watch (as well as being involved in quite intense story lines).
Just a theory. Ford doesn't like MiB one bit for the way he steered Westworld and maybe his behaviour towards his creations over the years so I'm thinking maybe the control unit is for the MiB . Would b the ultimate revenge for ford considering MiB to play his game, getting dupedand in the end, ends up getting his consciousness passed to a host version of his body by force. Especially now considering the he regret with what was done with Delos.
Great breakdown! I loved this episode and I can’t get it out of my head all day! The scene where we watched the MIB go through that thought process about finding his wife and thinking about all his sins in the Park was very powerful and brought so much emotion and empathy out of me. But one thing I had been thinking about when Bernard went to retrieve that maped human brain ball was that maybe a host had to go through everything and become conscious first before the human consciousness could take to the body and so ford discovered this and had Bernard retrieve a copy of Arnold and put it in Bernard before he died. That could be some of the reason that he’s not only having memories from Arnold but has been glitching out so bad in addition to the damage he’s sustained. There was mention of a scar that had appeared in the most recent timeline that wasn’t there in other timelines. I haven’t checked this out personally to know if it’s true but it seems possible! They were always much further ahead of everyone else with their technology including Delos.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the photo that made Peter Abernathy glitch in season 1. This time we are shown James Delos having this picture. Is the girl in it his daughter? You said in a previous video that perhaps the reason Abernathy glitches is not because of the technology in the photo, but because he remembers the girl. Could this mean that James Delos' mind is actually IN Peter Abernathy?
Ford lives on as a hive mind after being shot, able to put himself into any host. Lawrence's daughter as Ford didn't just tell him not to be looking ahead, but referenced his good deed in a way that feels too much like Ford saw what William did.
sageimac I'm less confident on details, but feel certain that something with that basic answer is at play. Ford knew about Delos, he'd know it's not feasible to stay in one body long term. Host-body based immortality could grant god-like status to many people, but becoming a sort of pure consciousness not bound to a single physical body could make a single man an actual god.
I don't follow your logic when you conclude that Delos is not secretly running the World because they have not yet perfected hybrids. Hybrids are for immortality. To secretly run the World, you replace powerful people with hosts. But to take over the World and get away with it, Delos needs to create hosts that are 100% organic. The current hosts would be easily detected in the outside World - airport scanners, X-rays, etc.
Brendan Ward in a world where you can create hundreds of thousands of human like robots with AI so advanced they're indistinguishable from the real thing and where you could even digitally clone a human brain and implant it into one of these robots while retaining all their past memories, I don't think its all that far fetched that they have the technology to fool a metal detector. I feel like they would have thought that out considering their keen attention to detail
I have a question. Is it just me or did william get shot twice this episode? It looked to me like he got shot in the back of the neck, as you can see he constantly covers it afterwards. Is this Robert going easy on him or am I imagining things
It seems like the timing of Bernard making the control unit for a human host matches up pretty well with Emily showing up. I wonder if Ford didn't make a host version of MiBs daughter to help influence his actions. The way she greeted her father at the end of episode four seemed off given what we know of their relationship. I always enjoy your videos, thanks Robert!
Jason Skevington - You're very right on the timing, but her conversation with Stubbs makes it clear that she was known around the park, and I'm not sure why he would have started her in a completely different park if that was his intention.
To me it seemed like Stubbs treated her as a guest, it didn't seem like he knew who she was. He seemed surprised by her knowledge of the native language and even asked "you've spent enough time in the park to learn the language?" when she escaped captivity nobody tries to stop her. Something just seems off with her. It's awesome that you take the Time to respond to all of the comments. Keep up the great work 👍🏽👍🏽
I agree with the timing. And the reunion was awfully strange. William seemed beyond surprised by her presence. Could be he simply was shocked his daughter was in the same hell he is, or perhaps her relatively warm, calm welcome was not at all what he would expect from Emily.
It seemed like Ford was the only candidate for the mapped control unit given that he has been directing Bernard. But it could be Ford trying to drive the game from beyond the grave. Ford might still be alive but uninterested in inhabiting a body.
I think she probably just stays away from Westworld usually and goes to the other parks. It's not far fetched to assume the different parks have different stations/trains/hotels just like Disneyland/universal does. They don't recognize her because each park has a central control hubb/head of park security etc.
I think Ford cracked the hybrid code. William appears to be using host technology to heal himself a la Mesa butchers style. 1. William "fixed" his gunshots wounds in the bar a couple episodes back. 2. Wasn't he shot in the neck in this episode? 3. Wasn't he shot the night of the gala? Really quick recoveries. 4. Barnold's memories are running together. 5. Ford is speaking directly to William through the hosts. Idk, what do you think, IDG? Love your videos. You do am awesome job.
Joe, young William is utterly ruthless at this point. It's certainly w/in his character to do just that. I wondered the same thing - James drank the whiskey at the first meeting and began to degrade immediately.
That drink has something to do with it. Like Jim Delos is very awere of him and everything that's happened, every time, until he drinks whatever MiB gave him. I think that MiB deliberately do that every time when Jim's "stable", he's somehow sabotage his "recovery".
Not sure. The drink is a part of the baseline script. What seems to set off the fail isn't his knowledge of his transfer later but the loss of his wife and time then later the further loss of his whole family. No one around to remember him...no chance of immortality.
You're right, maybe that's why the MiB says it's too early for him to drink. And maybe when he left him for the technician to observe him it was an excuse for him to suffer, and maybe somehow Delos' will helped him overcome the "instability" and he killed the technician.
at 2:30 I don't think you can rule out the futureworld idea where Delos is replacing guest with host based off of them not succeeding with transferring James delos to a host. If delos wants to replace people with their host puppets they wouldn't try to transfer their consciousness, they would create replicas like ford did with arnold becoming bernard. A host with a transferred consciousness wouldn't necessarily follow any of their orders and would just give random guest immortality
*Juliet Delos* has been in league with Ford since the beginning, behind her brother and father's back and then behind her husbands. Even though they are slowly bringing her into view she was there the first episode. The picture that Abernathy finds is key. Logan tells William that before he knew Juliet that she "rode a few cowboys". I think he is talking about Abernathy. Now Abernathy literally holds all of the secrets. Just as William became obsessed with Delores, I think Juliet became obsessed with Peter Abernathy. MiB wanted to use the park for evil but I think Juliet and Ford wanted to use it for good. She is the one person who paid attention to the stories from the very beginning. She then made sure her daughter paid attention. Grace/Emily understood ever narrative and could even speak the Ghost Nations language.
I think that Ford has already recreated a younger version of himself in Lee Sizemore. Firstly, they both have English accents. And they are both the parks "Storytellers". It was even hinted at in the first season that Lee would take over from Ford. I am 137% sure that the person who "paid attention to the stories" from the very beginning was Juliet Delos. This also means that Juliet knew Ford long before she met William. This is why I think that Lee is Ford... because of his backstory. I think that, as in Lee's backstory... Ford was in love with Juliet but instead, she chose to marry a brute like William who has a very similar persona as Hector... shoot 'em up cowboy ask questions later.
Bernard seems to be recalling past events while he is with Elsie and when he was with Elsie, somehow suggesting that there is another timeline one which he is recalling what he did to the tech and the drone hosts, another when he was with Elsie, and another timeline when he is recalling what he and Elsie found out. Clue is when he was trying to talk to Elsie and he said "I'm not here with you am I?".
There's always something that looks wrong to me and takes me out of it. Can't they just terminate James Delos and have his head blow up or have him fall down and die? Why set fire to that gorgeous apartment over and over??? What a waste. For the past month or more that Tiger on the beach has bothered me, what a crappy looking dead tiger. It doesn't look like the CGI Tiger at all. Also in Season 1, the pictures of Ford and Arnold together are confusing. They both look white and yet Bernard is supposed to be a replica of Arnold? I am confused... UPDATE: It looks like the pictures are of FORD, FORD's Replica Father and Arnold, I guess.
Don't worry, I appreciate Lawerance. He's one of my favourite characters, and I had hoped that Seaon 2 would follow Teddy, Stubbs and Lawerance as it's main characters. Never mind.
They supposedly transferred James Delos’ mind to a new host. What is the difference between James Delos host and a regular host? Regular host is programmed, its actions, its reactions, its text. James Delos is a living mind in a new body. Living mind, not programmed. So how they could predict what Delos was saying? And WHY he would be saying same things over and over, considering that his mind is not programmed?
I know im late but im pretty sure I was first that noticed that MIB pretended to drink or else kept the drink in the mouth, also during season 1 episode 10 MIB denies the alcohol from the server when he offers him a drink ,this is inside the park! then we cut to Ford revealing the truth to Bernard and then cut back and see MIB drinking at the bar but both are inside the park so maybe he just saw the guests and waited until he was far away enough to drink the whisky or maybe theres something else.... again remember we are guessing both events are occuring at the park during the same times in contuinuity between cut scenes, I always thought other than the Ford reveal there was something funny going on during the party scene
kimberly g same. I was a bit worried they'd drag that mystery out too long since the hints they've dropped since season 1 pretty much confirmed to me immediately that she had to be his daughter.
yes her mannerisms {though more like theressa with the cig,} she just had that air about her , the contempt for the park and hosts..etc. i was so pleased in the way she rode up n said hey Dad....even though id told myself it was def.mib daughter
Not sure if its been pointed out, but Ford also arranged for Elsie to be present on Bernard's return to the facility, by making Bernard put her there after he captured her on Ford's instructions and now leaving him with a gun through Clementine's so Bernard could release her. Season 1 we saw Ford kind of trying to slow her down on her progress of understanding some of the underlayers of the park. Ford predicted her value to this aftermatch we're seeing, I believe she will be a key player in solving Ford's game this season.
As soon as the other hybrid being created reveal occurred, I thought it referenced Ford or William. Ford at first seemed the more obvious option after the "previously on" opening segment showed his referencing how their technology would possibly one day resurrect the dead. However, this season (Ford's posthumous focus) seems to be firmly on William/MiB and the game designed solely for him - 'the door'. The key message Ford gives about the game is that William needs to look/go back to the beginning. The notion that he will slowly regain his initial self (kind, empathic, moral, still vulnerable etc.) upon entering the park is clearly being signalled as a strong possibility through the unfolding redemptive process IDG describes. What I suspect is that the final meeting between MiB and young William will be a literal one, with Ford's superior mastery over the hybrid technology seeing a viable hybrid version of young William waiting for the MiB behind the door - the one entered to visit his father-in-law in the secret lab, with the view that the new young William takes a different path (preserving his original qualities). The show likes mirror metaphors and metamorphous themes, and the mirroring of this hypothesised meeting with the earlier ones between William/MiB and James Delos seems apt. Perhaps this Young William ultimately resumes his partnership and romance with Delores? Just a thought.
I like the idea that somehow Ford "uploaded" his consciousness to the mesh network, and this is how he is still influencing the hosts after his death. This would explain a lot, since how can Ford truly have control over what's happening if the hosts are starting to become conscious? Particularly, Dolores seems to be doing her own thing.
MIB says some men don’t deserve to live forever. Does that mean that he feels that some do? Ford says Lazarus rising from the “cave”. Not tomb but cave. So we might conclude that Grace’s rescue satisfies this prophesy but could there be another who will rise?
You can guess what Ford’s plan is or what, but mind I remind no one and nothing can be guessed and inferred. The thing is Ford’s character has a lot of power in the writers (Jonathan Nolan & Lisa Joy) imagination. They can give Ford what ever they desire and shape. He’s the bicameral image of the writers. He can’t be labeled as a protagonist nor antagonist. He’s the show himself. Westworld revolves around Ford (Sir. Anthony Hopkins).
I loved the "Who the hell are you" by Delos. Giving us the broken 4th wall that all of us think when we try associate the old William with the the young as being the same guy as they just do not seem to truly fit. Yea height and body shape fit but they just do not seem like young and old are the same
I felt the "Return to the Beginning" episode was all Arnold memories and none of those I have seen exhibited by Bernard. If there is anything there it was from his backstory. Even Dolores asked if he knew anything of the man he was based upon?
Christian Meek - this is very true. I did wonder why Dolores might ask him if he remembered, assuming that she thought he was just a normal host. Perhaps she didn't think that ...
So I’m guessing by the end of this season the consciousness of Dolores, Maeve and the rest of the self aware host will be transferred into replicant host based off of the body’s of the humans saved by the ghost nation. This is how they can escape into the real world.
Bernard specifically states that the new hosts' code is something he has never seen... then - he triggers the androids to kill the technicians and kill themselves. - Bernard is a new host. He is not glitching because of the gunshot wound but because how he was made. His real memories and code are mixing organically. - He has the same hand tremors as the MiB father in law. - When found Delos looks into a mirror then Bernard looks into his face as though he were looking into a mirror - Maeve could not trigger the Ghost Nation because they are the new hosts built by Ford (Delores, Clementine, children, Lawrence?) using the new code. - Abernathy is a new host that is what Charlotte is trying to smuggle out of the park, not something stored within him. *Guesses:* - Emily has taken over Delos and she is the one refusing to send help. - I watched this episode with earphones on and you can hear the static record player the entire show. This whole episode happens in the past. - The reason Delos couldn't advance is that he didn't suffer.
Thanks... new queries... Why Abernathy? Logan tells William when he first arrives at the park that his sister/William's fiance, Juliet, "rode a few Cowboys" when she came to WW. Remember that *the Delos family were at WW at least 5 years BEFORE William.* I think that Juliet's cowboy was Abernathy which is why he malfunctioned when he saw Juliet's picture. Now that we know that the host record everything it is not such a leap to think that William may have gotten ahold of Juliet's trists in the park and used them against her in marriage. Of course, this is hypocritical since his relationship with Dolores is no different than Juliet's relationship with Peter Abernathy. It would also explain the lengths Grace/Emily went through to make sure that she did not sleep with a host, particularly since this may have been her mother's downfall. So again... why choose Abernathy out of all the hosts available to leave the park? *TOTAL TIN FOIL:::* - What if Juliet is NOT dead or is just "dead*ish"? - What if Grace/Emily and kinda not dead Juliet are presently in control of WW? (Which is why they wouldn't send in security until Abernathy is out.) - What if Juliet is trying to save her true love, Peter? - What if Juliet was in cahoots with Ford? She knew him before William. Trope #234 ... if you don't see the body then it didn't happen. Very suspicious that they did not show Juliet's death just a hand...hmmm...
I also saw some link between Bernard and Jim Delos. Even I thought that Delos' conscience could have been blended into Bernard-season02. But maybe that's too much
I know this sounds a little wacky, but I think there are two major concepts that have been displayed now. One is the idea of booting conscious, and the other is to move consciousness from a person to a host. I think this will evolve more with the story and is the centerpiece of the storyline. This seemed to be made apparent by episode 4.
When the UA-cam video reviewers refer to old William as "The Man In Black" it shows old William and young William are so far separate that even our real life consousness can not price the two actors as being the same guy in the show
In Mythology the riddle of the Sphinx was "What walks on 4 legs in the morning, two legs at noon and 3 legs in the evening?"The answer was 'Man' (On a cane old age). Now how does this relate to the episode?
Not sure how this will fit into any theories (or if this is important at all) During the railway constructing scene, I heard the workers yelling "hurry up" in Cantonese in the background. FYI: Cantonese is one of the many Chinese languages and is mostly spoken by the Hong Kong, Macau and Guangjou people. I hope I did not mishear that, the line "hurry up" seems to fit into ep4's whole "time" theme especially when one of the guys literally looked at his watch right after that line. I wonder if there was a previous detail that can link with this? Enjoying your videos a lot! Keep it up!
So if MIB is heading west, the railway is going east(Asia), which fits that Cantonese detail? Well it's a park, after all, I shouldn't be applying normal geography here I guess
The Cantonese language kinda fits the time period tho. The central Pacific used Asian immigrants to help build the railroad . The union Pacific was made up by Irish immigrants labourers, veterans of the civil war. Maybe they are laying a track to bring a large group of hosts to the valley beyond ?
yes I just knew about central pacific too and thought maybe this scene is just some reference to that time period, nice little detail you know. but we all know how WW never waste a second of its screen time;) I was thinking more on host building it to connect with different parks, but what you said would be a cool use of this scene in the future, preparing for an epic showdown at the end of this season in that mysterious place!
Do you think we will ever see Ford in a new body ?( probably played by another actor since the show creators have said that Anthony Hopkins won't return propoby but this is not the last time we see Ford.). Since Delos is trying to transfer the mind to a host body but the it failing since they haven't fully cracked the code to. So they need Abernaty since he is the last piece of the puzzle to complete their plan. But what if Ford already cracked the code and when we see him talk trough the other host it is not just a ghost of him but his actually managed to digitize his mind and send the trough the mesh network that the host uses.Since the Door narrative was made for William and what I assume Ford want him to evolve to become a better version of him. In Fords final speach in season 1 he talked about on how someone paid attention to his stories since the park opened and that someone is William. He is on the side of the hosts after all and Ford want William to evolve to change perhaps to go back the way he was to become a better man then he is now and Ford respects William I think even though they don't fully see eye to eye. Not only that secret cloning think or the weapon Delores calls it his greatest mistake said by William.. So perhaps at the end William will to become a host in his young host body and he Will take the mantle from Ford helping the host make a new world a better world. We do Bernard take the orb perhaps it has something to do with transferring it to the host body. I think it was Ford who send Bernard to that secret lab. At the end Lorence daughter ( or ford speaking trough her) say that the way forward is not the correct path so assuming that the way is look back and perhaps return the way he was for the Willia. P.S another great video
actionvids35 - thank you! I definitely think that's not the last we've seen of Ford. He's been pretty much ever-present this season, despite his death!
*I think that the person who was paying attention was Juliet Delos* , Logans' sister, Jim Delos' daughter, Williams' wife, and Grace/Emily's mother. Juliet was at the park at the very beginning BEFORE William.
D D perhaps,but I more on the ideas that it is William as he is the only one who visited the park constantly since it was opened. More to the fact t that the new narrative was made for him. Remember Williams wife and login are dead so it could not be about her
William was not there from the beginning. He came in about 5 years later. Juliet and Logan were there from the start. William brought in Jim even more years later. Juliet has been woven into the fabric of the story from the beginning even if she was not seen: - Logan tells William as he gets off the train for the first time that Juliet "Rode a few cowboys" - The "cowboy" Abernathy malfunctions when he sees a photo of Juliet. As a host, he should have seen nothing, but he sees the image. - We now know that all of the hosts record their interactions with humans. Therefore all of Juliet's interactions with Abernathy were recorded. We saw a lab tech being blackmailed for diddling with a host in the lab... imagine what William would have done with the same information regarding his wife the daughter of the man whose company he wanted to control. - We see vestiges of Juliet in Grace/Emily in the lengths she goes through to make sure she does not sleep with a host. Is that because her father tormented her mother for the same??? - Out of all of the hosts why pick a supposedly malfunctioning host to implant gazillions of dollars worth of IP to smuggle out of the park? Or was it to free Juliet's lover.? - Is Juliet really dead? First, they said it was pills then there was an image of a supposed suicide by slashing wrist? No face was shown... no positive ID.
My main question is HOW are they transferring human consciousness, not where they are putting it but how are you removing it from a human mind (considering how fragile and complex just one person is, and all to the variations that make then unique.... including their memories), then containing it somewhere, and then implanting it into someplace else? You can't code consciousness through just one or maybe even a few visits at the park(even still that isn't true consciousness), and it can't be coded by DNA?
It doesn't make any sense that they have to destroy the whole body each time, rather than just using a fresh 'brain' each time. As for transferring consciousness - me - not in any sense I can see, unless you had some sort of soul that latches onto the closest approximation of a host body. A better example from the transhumanist community would be to have put his brain in a new host body - presuming it did not have cancer - then as the brain is sitting in there, map each neuron onto an emulator, and as it died from natural causes, you can fire up a replacement cell, presumably machine based but you could do use a rewired (new, young) brain cell with enough technology. the advantage of swapping in machine brain cells one by one is that you would never have a moment when you died exactly... which i would find acceptable, even if it means my organic brain might only last around a century at best. Dying sucks because of the pain and helplessness. Making it more abstracted and i expect it won't matter so much. And once you are digital, you can be fully, multiply backed up. So theoretically, you could live forever, or at least as long as you wanted, and yes, you would want a built in suicide switch inside the neural architecture, because the longer you lived, the more likely something BAD will happen from which there is no escape.
I'm watching again!! This is very very interesting!! I have several questions I need ask you, or J.T. Show about. Would Instagram b ok? I don't use Twitter anymore. I don't expect you to answer me IMMEDIATELY or anything. Maybe you could talk about/help answer them in a livestream or something??? Ttyl😘XOXO💜
bernard printed a "mind marble" of Arnold. Ford's last act is to give Arnold back the park, but with hosts that can evolve and progress dispite humans attempts ro control them.
The moment that girl told the man in black about a clue in his past I KNEW THAT YOUNG WOMAN FROM LAS EPISODE WAS HIS DAUGHTER. It explane why she didn't want to leeve the park.
Two small observations: 1. *"You live only as long as the last person who remembers you"* --- This is the theme of Disney's *"Coco"* which takes place on Dia de Muertos. A good watch even if you don't have kids. MiB's discussion with his FiL could have been ripped straight from this film. Basically, it states that you can become immortal by people remembering you and the only true death is when there is no one left living who remembers you. 2. This is a game. Could it be that because the MiB did a good deed he was "rewarded" with extra "tokens"? He was allowed extra men/help to help him on his quest.
Anyone Else thinking it's cruel to kill a (Human-Host-Hybrid) HHH becauce he just have menthal troubles... why is his life with notting to William. James Delos isnt allowed to live outside the fishbowl because he isnt a exact copy???????
149 attempts over many decades. What an unbelievably significant amount of capital and (intellectual) resources devoted to this failed project. If a human consciousness cannot be successfully uploaded, then what can be salvaged to make the massive investment in the parks justified? One thinks there must be a Plan B, right?
You just known that Ford and Williams daughter are working together bcoz they both fucking hate Delos... And that's who Bernard was copying the control panel to... Williams daughter 😁
Imagine how crazy anyone would be after 35 days of isolation... then rethink the human-host hybrid James Delos (build 149)! Interesting when he screams for Logan!
imho, i thoroughly suggest - for a even more better understanding of westworld's themes and tropes as you deliver it here so wunderful and beautiful and very thankful received by me - a book, which is called "Daemon" by Daniel Suarez and one or two of youtube's game analysis videos for the pc-game "Soma". i have no money, i am poor - but i thoguht i give you some inspiration instead :)
I'm thinking Arnold's consciousness was perhaps the first successful implant into a host by Ford. When Bernard is in the lab and says something to the effect "Is this now?" I think that is a reference to the past. And when he has flashbacks of him ordering those hosts to kill the scientist, I think that was Arnold destroying all evidence of what Ford was attempting to do, namely preserving someone's consciousness forever. It seems maybe Arnold discovered what Ford had been doing with Mr. Delos all those years and had a moral epiphany and took one copy of that brain stem, had everyone killed and then had all evidence and data destroyed. This perhaps also led to why Arnold wanted himself killed. Maybe it was originally HIS findings that were possible with the transfer of the human mind to hosts bodies successfully and that if he destroyed all of it, Ford would not be able to recreate it. However since Bernard has Arnold's memories, that leads me to believe that he may have been Ford's first successful test subject and after that he realized he could kill himself but still remain conscious among the hosts now, forever.
What theory do you support about what human-host Ford wants Bernard to create? I am definitely of the opinion it is Arnold's brain that Bernard does implant into himself. Main evidence is the flashback in the pilot of S2 where Bernard has an Arnold memory among Bernard memories.
well kind of... in this season Bernard doesn't understand the timelines, what is in the present, what in the past... And this "flashback" happens between 2 Bernard scenes and in the flashbacks there are only scenes with Bernard in it (and once with Arnold), then his thoughts as voiceover "is this now?" clearly indicates that he has those memories but can't tell when they happened and what time(line) he currently is in Reason for him being so confused could be that Arnold's mind/consciousness/memories was/were implanted to Bernard's body, so he has his own memories (also those that were erased by Ford over the time) and those that Arnold had. Obviously that confuses someone if he has memories he never experienced and can't tell when they happened. That's why he glitches all the time
MrColler123 I believe Bernard glitches all the time because he removed all of that important Delos data inside Abernathys head and put it into his own. Second theory is that the control unit is not for Bernard. Arnold wanted to die. Ford wouldn't bring him back like that. Most will say the control unit is for William which is an obvious choice, but this show has a way of surprising us. I think its for Ford.
The reference that everyone missed: Henry David Thoreau, writing in Walden, called railroad ties "sleepers" and asks, who are these sleepers? Dead railroad workers, Irishmen and Yankees. Thoreau writes that it would be nice if the sleepers could wake up someday. I have no doubt that the scene early in this episode, where William and Lawrence see bodies being used as railroad ties, is a reference to (or at least inspired by) Thoreau's metaphor in Walden.
So I’ve seen it pointed out that the interlocking hexagon symbols that appear on the secret project that grace-emily also had resemble an Infiniti symbol. Which would totally make sense being they’re trying to achieve immortality.
Eastworld is a new part of the park only Nardbern Bernard brother knows about. Also the Man in White (Logan Delos) will run into MIB and the turf war begins. 😁
I would be willing to bet that trauma is what overcomes the cognitive plateau, and therefore such a stress on trauma with the hosts. William has his epiphany about how life should not be extended through hosts probably very closely after his wife committed suicide -- that she wanted to die, and eternal life is also the potential of eternal suffering. He knows now that the hosts are an external life form never to be really reconciled with humanity except in external appearance. The difference between Grace and William could be that she is cognizant of the James Delos experiment and thought her mother should be revived for eternal life as Delos was, but William couldn't get across to her the range of suffering and malfunctions the experiment causes. William wants Grace to experience firsthand the horrific result so she can understand.
Honestly, I feel like Billy actually was using Papa Delos's host to experiment and understand and advance the tech, had no intention on bringing him to the world, even before. He inherited the whole thing from him afterall.
The last time the MIB met resurrected Delos was extremely recent in the show’s timeline. He had his full MIB clothes when he met him, as he would wear in the park. He ordered the technicians to let Delos degenerate on his own rather than terminate him. The next scene, was Charlotte and Bernard discovering Delos in the room, fully degenerating. His face was full of blood and he had totally lost it. The MIB left him like this right before the park went crazy. This was the aftermath.
Earned yourself a sub. Just a tip: they’ve teased Yul Brenner in cold storage, but if that isn’t him floating in the lake with the hosts I’ll eat my hat.
OOORR... william is the human host put into the MIB by ford, so that he can learn a lesson and change himself after death. That explains the fixation he has with the park and many other things.
The Justin Thomas Show how do you do that??? I'm a night owl!! Can't sleep. I have Sleep Apnea. I'm supposed to sleep w/a mask that reminds me of some rebel force guy from Star Wars in his space ship!! Can't sleep on my side!! I've stopped using it. And Dr.s want to give you all these sleep aids. Just MORE medicine. My body just doesn't want/need a lot of sleep. I wake up every 2hrs like clockwork. R you 10hrs ahead of Eastern time?? Much love😘✌
It’s a nice touch when Bernard realises that he is experiencing his memories in a unique manner, unsure if they are in fact memories or reality. It puts him in a similar position to the viewer and so invokes within the viewer a sense of empathy and sympathy for a character who’s motives remain unclear, who has done some terrible deeds and in fact may well continue to do so.
This was easily one of the best episode so far
The Enigma true. Just after the worst.
There's something odd about Elsie in this episode. She looks way to put together to have spent any time - let alone several days in a cave. As someone on the Reddit commented, she looks like she just stepped out of a Sephora shop. I think we'll find out that there are some holes in her timeline as well.
Michael Zdanis - Yes, she looked particularly well groomed for someone who's been chained up in a cave for a while! I suppose it's possible that they had her unconscious somewhere for a while then just woke her up when they found Bernard, but that's stretching it a bit...
I think this part is just part of being a show. If she was adequately "dirty/frumpled" then she would have to stay that way the rest of the show. Better to let Ms. Woodward look good. Without a confirmed timeline we also aren't sure if the kidnapping didn't happen the day before the Gala. We never are told even by her how long she was there. My feeling is only a day or two. William (old) visited James Delos on the 35th day. Instead of "torching" the room he said to observe his last few days to see if anything could be learned. It was the same tech that was dead too. Hard to tell if Bernard had the host drones kill him or if James Delos killed him.
I noticed that too, as well she did not seem to upset at Clementine or any other host taking care of her.
Still this was one good episode. However the show over all is not as strong without Anthony Hopkins. I know "Ford" is involved in spirit but Anthony Hopkins is a AAA actor that gave the show a strong foundation
Hi Christian - If we have learned nothing else from the showrunners it's that the one thing that seems to be 'true' (besides death) is the pain-staking detail they put into this show... her long hair is a clue, along with the few protein packs and her very clean suit, and Bernard is glitching so perhaps the two weeks since Delores killed Ford and we find Bernard on the beach is actually longer than we think... Elsie may be there as Bernard repeats/replays this event over and over again getting a little further to consciousness each time - Ford might have Stubbs and Elsie there to assist the host 'find themselves' but not interfere - For me, it seems that William and his team have James Delos but they can't get the 'human/host' thing worked out and Ford has worked out the issues after 35 years... he has Bernard and that he found a way to put Arnold back in to Bernard's body... I do not think Bernard will go away but the two minds or souls will sync up at some point... we all have a Yin and a Yang in us (darkand light) so maybe that is the secret that Ford discovered going back and looking through Arnold's journal and notes and combining it with what he already knows about the hosts - I also have a gut feeling that the maze was for the host, their journey to consciousness, and the pyramid is for William, his journey is focusing to a single point, the tip of the pyramid, were he may be given the option to leave the park or to stay and be placed into a younger version of himself (young William, when he 1st fell in love with Delores)... might he not be the Yin and Delors is the Yang... are they the new age 'Adam and Eve' that will be the only way the host truly make the next step? ...or is this just another 'false flag' trail that we are supposed to get distracted by? I luv this show! I am only giving your comment a thumbs down because I think that it would be too sloppy of a thing for Jon and Lisa to skip over... EVERY idea has merit still... I still like the idea that Game of Thrones is a Delos Park! LOL as much as I want to shoot this down, I keep 'seeing' things that make me have to at least consider it...
She was only tied up for a few days in realtime, and she really wasn't going anywhere. Considering she was also chained up, left to eat protein bars & void into a bucket.
Also on a TV perspective: she's a HUGE fan favorite and I'm sure they wanted to pay her appearance off as a "breath of fresh air". Especially considering how stale & flat the show had seemingly become to most fans. RE: Reddit Babies
Edit: Also, the show runners said they'd plant things to throw people off. This seems to include all the wonky things happening in the background. It's to make you question everything you're seeing. It's brilliant actually.
I hadn't noticed before that all of the storylines in this episode are Ford-driven events. It makes it all the more interesting that Delores and Teddy don't appeal in this episode.
i was waiting for your video, excellent as usual. Keep em coming, big fan.
manystar - Thank you!
When Bernard and Elsie are attempting to get into that locked door where the host hybrid of James Delos is being kept, Bernard says somthing to the effect of "I'm not here with you right now, am I?". This leads me to beleive that Bernard will return to this location in the 'future', possibly leading Charlotte Hale and the other delos emploees?
Skullmonkey - I'd need to watch it again, but on a first view I thought that he was slipping back to the previous time he's been there, rather than forward to the next time ...
I thought he was just confused because Elise wasn't responding to his mumbled requests....love the acting but some lines are too hard to understand. I have to rewatch with subtitles to get all the words.
In Deep Geek Hey Robert, I have just rewatched the scene in question and i am now even more certain that Bernard will return here in the present/future timeline. Right after he says the first line of dialog i mentioned, he says "I'm trying to remember what we found here", I take this as meaning he is remembering his time in the lab with Elsie while peicing his fragmented memories together in the 'now'.
It's three timelines. The first when he's there under Ford's control, the second with Elsie and then another time when he's alone/remembering back. He says "I'm trying to remember what we did here" past tense and not refering to a "we" as in Delos but "we" as in he and Elsie.
The reactive way in which Ford influences what is going on in the park makes me wonder. The red brain that Bernard takes from the lab may well be Ford's mind, but I could imagine that Ford is not being put into a host body, but rather became part of the parks control system (maybe that happen long in the past). I just remember the times when he seems to have mind control over the hosts in season 1 and that may only be possible if he were a hybrid all along.
Robert you do an amazing job breaking these shows down. Ive become a big fan! Keep it up!
Hopefully we get more Logan. Ben Barnes really nailed that character.
Thank you so much for doing these videos!
I watched all of season one again, and am watching episode one season two. William explodes from the pile of bodies after the attack, unscathed from the injuries he supposedly suffered. I think William perfected the cloning, but rejected his boss, and is in fact a host, albeit a deadly one! He's so obsessed, he's gonna play the game with an advantage! It's an interesting theory, and there are many ways to write the story, but the timeline sux! Either way the writers will keep us guessing, cause that's what makes it so much fun! The story will never be predictable! Take a guess that's the best your gonna get!
In the episode 4 Craddock dances with Lawrence's wife exactly the same way that William danced with her in the season 1.
How could that be? William is not a host, and Craddock hadn't seen the dance just to copy it. So was it possible that Craddock was able to perform the same dance? What is a significance of that?
Excellent review.
I don't think Logan is dead. I think Logan was William's 1st attempt(s) at reanimation. Logan is still in the park & William reanimated him just to cover his ass & begin work on reanimation. Evidence:1) When he is talking to "James Delos", older William says "...he couldn't face reality either"(the same thing he just diagnosed Delos with) and then shifts his eyes in frustration & disillusionment. He wouldn't care enough for Logan to have such a visceral response. He would respond like this if 30+ years of work still only yielded 35 days of reliable product2) It seems like when a reanimated host begins to break down it starts to imbibe substances that harm/kill it. William brings in the bottle repeatedly to test "Delos" (an otherwise health conscientious entity). Since the work on Delos seems to be William's most important, we should assume he came in everyday. The test ends (I.e., the reanimated accepts a drink-or doesn't state "a little too early for me") & the reanimated is terminated when he says yes to the drink. Logan is high for the same reason. He's starting to break down almost immediately. These reanimated hosts-when they begin to break down-descend into hell & their only escape is self destruction & ideally suicideI also find it interesting that in 35+ years of work William only managed to advance "life" by 35 days.Prediction: I think the man in black is on his way to confront the long lost Logan in the park, who is truly the continuation & embodiment of James's Delos. Also, I suspect William's wife died a while ago, he turned her into a "host", she began breaking down & OD'd & killed herself for that reason. Emily/Grace (a fitting name for William's redemptive arc daughter) discovered this and is now ready to confront him. William must look back to go forward. Going back means confronting Emily, his wife, Logan/Jim Delos, &-in a meta sense-Robert Ford. This confrontation is the board meeting/ceremony Ford really wanted for his final exit, stage left
The Bernard and William storylines are by far the most interesting in this series, was such a pleasure to have an episode focussed just on them after last weeks ragtag Dolores/Maeve show, which I find it hard to care about. One thing that connects them though - the fact that Clementine is so directly under Fords control that she protects bernard - for me this suggests Dolores herself is less 'free' than she thinks she is - as her quite crude and scripted behaviour since shooting ford suggests also. If the presence of the confederados in the town with William was a key part of that storyline also, then it means Dolores' actions at the fort were a necessary part of Ford's plans - so maybe she is still just a pawn in his story?
It also means that Ford also scripted Teddy to release those specific prisoners so that they could get to Lawrence's hometown. So by this theory, both Teddy and Delores are still mostly scripted.
Kevin Kozlowski yes exactly. And Dolores being supposedly the premier example of a 'conscious' host, it follows that perhaps the entire idea of hosts with free will is actually a fake out and part of fords narrative. Maeve's actions equally seem quite scripted - I think towards the end of series one it was revealed most of what she'd done was in fact set up by someone else. Not sure exactly what ford wants to achieve with all of this though - educating William is clearly one part, but surely must be something wider to justify all the chaos and death involved!
Hey Robert. I really want to know the timing between Bernard's visits to the black lab. This bodies were not rotting at all, visibly. Maybe it was refrigerated to a point? Must have been before he abducted Elsie. Have you considered putting together a working timeline of events that you can augment, as new info clarifies some aspects of it? Someone needs to be the first, unless it's already being worked on outside the Nolan's sphere.
Jeff Boerst - That's a really good idea. I don't think I have time to do it exactly, but I think Bernard's first visit must have been only just before the massacre, or else someone would have raised the alarm, noticed that the technicians didn't return from their shift etc. I assume that there must have been another way into the lab, rather than just the aboveground entrance in WW.
You missed the mystery door which is a direct allusion to JJ Abrams mystery box. And also, of course, the fact that this Mystery episode was called riddle of the Sphinx. How much more of this JJ Abrams storytelling technique must we endure?
ford made arnold make him a dna ball and he put his mind in every host
my money says Ford built a new improved james delos. hes the only guy that would make the man in Blacks stomach turn. like an end of game boss
Your intro reminds me of old school Sesame Street... 😂 ... Maybe some of you don't even know what I'm talking about...
Moss from IT crowd doing youtube now?
This doesn't actually pertain to the episode, more of a question to the Director. Ed Harris stands 5'9" and Jimmy Simpson is 5'11" it's a visible difference and yet no apparent techniques were used to hide this, why?
I bet it’s Bernard!
I bet ford created a young William host
Watch at 1.25x speed. He speaks slowly to drag out video time.
Did Logan die? OD doesn't mean death...This episode has so many WTFs...it made less sense than most episodes, and that's quite a statement!! - I hope Lawrence kills the MIB.. Elsie was chained up with a bucket with a few protein bars...come on!!! I think Ford is still in charge. Watch Preston Jacob's video, it's the funniest one ever!!! ua-cam.com/video/L-fpCmSeEj8/v-deo.html
mr bruff?
Maybe theyre trying to put a host brain into a human
Legion is much better show
I don't think Logan is dead. The most obvious reason is that there would be little reason to give his character valuable air time if it wouldn't be for a future payoff. Whatever you think of his character or motivations, the simple fact that William said he died from an overdose is a strong tell that he did not. William said the same about Juliet last season, but now we have a bloody bath, something eluding to a slashed wrist type of suicide. Originally, William had said Juliet's death was an accident, but his daughter blamed him for what she believed was actually a suicide. In contrast, William didn't bother beating around the bush in this episode. He stated Juliet's suicide as if it was fact. Soon after, we hear him say that Logan died of an overdose, and the preview for next week reminds us of his original statements about his wife's death. I think they are trying to tell us not to believe William at face value. He wanted to get a rise out of Delos and might have been making things up or not telling the whole truth. I don't think we've heard what really happened to Logan. For all we know, he could have been working against William and his project all this time, maybe with Emily, or even Ford. Whatever he's been up to, dead or alive, I think there is more to Logan's story. (At least, I hope so. William's white hat turned black practically overnight. In 30 years, Logan could have grown up to be quite a different man than we've seen.)
A H C - Good points, thank you!
I think William killed him and that's why his wife committed suicide
wood1155 If that were true, why have him in any scenes at all? We had all the evidence of his vices in the first season, and his ousting from the biz would have been a good enough excuse for him to give up on life. Without any additional screen time, many would easily believe that he overdosed. But... instead of simply writing him off this season, we're given new scenes. We find out he was the initial investor and had Asian contacts (perhaps why the park found a home on a Chinese island), and not his father who thought it a waste of money even after seeing the quality of the hosts, until William outlined the market research angle. (If Logan wasn't significant going forward, why not just script it as his daddy doing it all as a brilliant business man and Logan just a pampered rich kid gone wild?) We also get a key scene with Delores seeming to regret the whole venture, as the park and their business with it has become something he does not support. (If season 1 wrote him as a self-centered, self-indignant ass, why add this character growth just to kill him off screen in a brief aside?) The writers aren't likely going waste time on anything not important to moving the plot forward, but it is perfectly possible, maybe even likely, that I am completely wrong on Logan's importance to the bigger story. As to Logan as William's antagonist, he seems more a friend trying to push his brother-to-be out of his comfort zone in mother-of-all-bachelor-parties kind of way. He was excited about the park as a place of fun and easy income, and could definitely be an ass, but I would argue that William's biggest foil has always been himself.
Change the playback speed to 1.25x, thank me later
I think Ford created Lawrence’s character to mirror the Man in Black’s character. MIB looked kinda shaken when Lawrence talked about why he stayed away from his family.
Claire Futrell Yup. This syncs well with what William said earlier in the season about everyone liking to look at themselves - they want a mirror.
Well, it turns out that Lawrence is MIB's mirror, and that when it looks into it - at Lawrence - he does not like what he sees.
This is a redemption arc that the two will share together. I think that's why Ford doesn't mind having Lawrence stay around. Indeed, I'd go so far as to say that he _wants_ Lawrence to stay with the MIB until they reach the end of their arc... which ends with the MIB becoming... William. Probably in a new host body.
(I'm also hoping that William and Dolores fall in love again upon meeting again, with William in his new body, which I'm guessing will look like when he first met her)
From a viewer standpoint, MIB and Lawrence make a very good team. They have good chemistry together, and are quite entertaining and enjoyable to watch (as well as being involved in quite intense story lines).
Just a theory. Ford doesn't like MiB one bit for the way he steered Westworld and maybe his behaviour towards his creations over the years so I'm thinking maybe the control unit is for the MiB .
Would b the ultimate revenge for ford considering MiB to play his game, getting dupedand in the end, ends up getting his consciousness passed to a host version of his body by force.
Especially now considering the he regret with what was done with Delos.
Great breakdown! I loved this episode and I can’t get it out of my head all day! The scene where we watched the MIB go through that thought process about finding his wife and thinking about all his sins in the Park was very powerful and brought so much emotion and empathy out of me. But one thing I had been thinking about when Bernard went to retrieve that maped human brain ball was that maybe a host had to go through everything and become conscious first before the human consciousness could take to the body and so ford discovered this and had Bernard retrieve a copy of Arnold and put it in Bernard before he died. That could be some of the reason that he’s not only having memories from Arnold but has been glitching out so bad in addition to the damage he’s sustained. There was mention of a scar that had appeared in the most recent timeline that wasn’t there in other timelines. I haven’t checked this out personally to know if it’s true but it seems possible! They were always much further ahead of everyone else with their technology including Delos.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the photo that made Peter Abernathy glitch in season 1. This time we are shown James Delos having this picture. Is the girl in it his daughter?
You said in a previous video that perhaps the reason Abernathy glitches is not because of the technology in the photo, but because he remembers the girl. Could this mean that James Delos' mind is actually IN Peter Abernathy?
seemed obvious tho
Ford lives on as a hive mind after being shot, able to put himself into any host. Lawrence's daughter as Ford didn't just tell him not to be looking ahead, but referenced his good deed in a way that feels too much like Ford saw what William did.
Yes, I believe your hive mind theory about Ford.
sageimac I'm less confident on details, but feel certain that something with that basic answer is at play. Ford knew about Delos, he'd know it's not feasible to stay in one body long term. Host-body based immortality could grant god-like status to many people, but becoming a sort of pure consciousness not bound to a single physical body could make a single man an actual god.
I don't follow your logic when you conclude that Delos is not secretly running the World because they have not yet perfected hybrids. Hybrids are for immortality. To secretly run the World, you replace powerful people with hosts. But to take over the World and get away with it, Delos needs to create hosts that are 100% organic. The current hosts would be easily detected in the outside World - airport scanners, X-rays, etc.
Brendan Ward in a world where you can create hundreds of thousands of human like robots with AI so advanced they're indistinguishable from the real thing and where you could even digitally clone a human brain and implant it into one of these robots while retaining all their past memories, I don't think its all that far fetched that they have the technology to fool a metal detector. I feel like they would have thought that out considering their keen attention to detail
How is Bernard not considered a hybrid he has Arnold consciousness in him
My friend pointed out that the people tied to the log with Emily that have lines in this episode, have been in season one
I have a question. Is it just me or did william get shot twice this episode? It looked to me like he got shot in the back of the neck, as you can see he constantly covers it afterwards. Is this Robert going easy on him or am I imagining things
It seems like the timing of Bernard making the control unit for a human host matches up pretty well with Emily showing up. I wonder if Ford didn't make a host version of MiBs daughter to help influence his actions. The way she greeted her father at the end of episode four seemed off given what we know of their relationship. I always enjoy your videos, thanks Robert!
Jason Skevington - You're very right on the timing, but her conversation with Stubbs makes it clear that she was known around the park, and I'm not sure why he would have started her in a completely different park if that was his intention.
To me it seemed like Stubbs treated her as a guest, it didn't seem like he knew who she was. He seemed surprised by her knowledge of the native language and even asked "you've spent enough time in the park to learn the language?" when she escaped captivity nobody tries to stop her. Something just seems off with her. It's awesome that you take the Time to respond to all of the comments. Keep up the great work 👍🏽👍🏽
I agree with the timing. And the reunion was awfully strange. William seemed beyond surprised by her presence. Could be he simply was shocked his daughter was in the same hell he is, or perhaps her relatively warm, calm welcome was not at all what he would expect from Emily.
It seemed like Ford was the only candidate for the mapped control unit given that he has been directing Bernard. But it could be Ford trying to drive the game from beyond the grave. Ford might still be alive but uninterested in inhabiting a body.
I think she probably just stays away from Westworld usually and goes to the other parks. It's not far fetched to assume the different parks have different stations/trains/hotels just like Disneyland/universal does. They don't recognize her because each park has a central control hubb/head of park security etc.
Amazing episode and it didn't even have Even Rachel in it which I didn't think was possible since she's amazing.
I think Ford cracked the hybrid code. William appears to be using host technology to heal himself a la Mesa butchers style.
1. William "fixed" his gunshots wounds in the bar a couple episodes back.
2. Wasn't he shot in the neck in this episode?
3. Wasn't he shot the night of the gala?
Really quick recoveries.
4. Barnold's memories are running together.
5. Ford is speaking directly to William through the hosts.
Idk, what do you think, IDG?
Love your videos. You do am awesome job.
We already know that the repair tool works on humans. It was used to heal Sylvester's neck back in season 1.
Voidheartd are you sure Sylvester isn't a host !!?
The healing tool working on the MIB doesn’t get nearly the attention it deserves!
Joe, young William is utterly ruthless at this point. It's certainly w/in his character to do just that. I wondered the same thing - James drank the whiskey at the first meeting and began to degrade immediately.
That drink has something to do with it. Like Jim Delos is very awere of him and everything that's happened, every time, until he drinks whatever MiB gave him. I think that MiB deliberately do that every time when Jim's "stable", he's somehow sabotage his "recovery".
Not sure. The drink is a part of the baseline script. What seems to set off the fail isn't his knowledge of his transfer later but the loss of his wife and time then later the further loss of his whole family. No one around to remember him...no chance of immortality.
You're right, maybe that's why the MiB says it's too early for him to drink. And maybe when he left him for the technician to observe him it was an excuse for him to suffer, and maybe somehow Delos' will helped him overcome the "instability" and he killed the technician.
Older William takes a sip from his glass when Delos begins to sperg out.
@Bo Do: Nice catch! ;)
Bo Do that is true, but see his tics afterwards. And he just take a sip, and Delos drunk whole glass of it.
at 2:30 I don't think you can rule out the futureworld idea where Delos is replacing guest with host based off of them not succeeding with transferring James delos to a host.
If delos wants to replace people with their host puppets they wouldn't try to transfer their consciousness, they would create replicas like ford did with arnold becoming bernard. A host with a transferred consciousness wouldn't necessarily follow any of their orders and would just give random guest immortality
*Juliet Delos* has been in league with Ford since the beginning, behind her brother and father's back and then behind her husbands.
Even though they are slowly bringing her into view she was there the first episode. The picture that Abernathy finds is key. Logan tells William that before he knew Juliet that she "rode a few cowboys". I think he is talking about Abernathy. Now Abernathy literally holds all of the secrets.
Just as William became obsessed with Delores, I think Juliet became obsessed with Peter Abernathy. MiB wanted to use the park for evil but I think Juliet and Ford wanted to use it for good.
She is the one person who paid attention to the stories from the very beginning. She then made sure her daughter paid attention. Grace/Emily understood ever narrative and could even speak the Ghost Nations language.
There are multiple Bernard hosts wirelessly connected. All attempting to update at the same time.
I think that Ford has already recreated a younger version of himself in Lee Sizemore. Firstly, they both have English accents. And they are both the parks "Storytellers". It was even hinted at in the first season that Lee would take over from Ford.
I am 137% sure that the person who "paid attention to the stories" from the very beginning was Juliet Delos. This also means that Juliet knew Ford long before she met William.
This is why I think that Lee is Ford... because of his backstory.
I think that, as in Lee's backstory... Ford was in love with Juliet but instead, she chose to marry a brute like William who has a very similar persona as Hector... shoot 'em up cowboy ask questions later.
No one seems to be mentioning that the the “human” host work perfectly fine for at least a few weeks. Imagine the possibilities
Bernard seems to be recalling past events while he is with Elsie and when he was with Elsie, somehow suggesting that there is another timeline one which he is recalling what he did to the tech and the drone hosts, another when he was with Elsie, and another timeline when he is recalling what he and Elsie found out. Clue is when he was trying to talk to Elsie and he said "I'm not here with you am I?".
maybe there are 2 bernards, host bernard and host-human arnold-bernard
There's always something that looks wrong to me and takes me out of it. Can't they just terminate James Delos and have his head blow up or have him fall down and die? Why set fire to that gorgeous apartment over and over??? What a waste. For the past month or more that Tiger on the beach has bothered me, what a crappy looking dead tiger. It doesn't look like the CGI Tiger at all. Also in Season 1, the pictures of Ford and Arnold together are confusing. They both look white and yet Bernard is supposed to be a replica of Arnold? I am confused... UPDATE: It looks like the pictures are of FORD, FORD's Replica Father and Arnold, I guess.
Don't worry, I appreciate Lawerance. He's one of my favourite characters, and I had hoped that Seaon 2 would follow Teddy, Stubbs and Lawerance as it's main characters. Never mind.
They supposedly transferred James Delos’ mind to a new host. What is the difference between James Delos host and a regular host? Regular host is programmed, its actions, its reactions, its text. James Delos is a living mind in a new body. Living mind, not programmed. So how they could predict what Delos was saying? And WHY he would be saying same things over and over, considering that his mind is not programmed?
ford is still alive i think in the digital sense and physical
I know im late but im pretty sure I was first that noticed that MIB pretended to drink or else kept the drink in the mouth, also during season 1 episode 10 MIB denies the alcohol from the server when he offers him a drink ,this is inside the park! then we cut to Ford revealing the truth to Bernard and then cut back and see MIB drinking at the bar but both are inside the park so maybe he just saw the guests and waited until he was far away enough to drink the whisky or maybe theres something else.... again remember we are guessing both events are occuring at the park during the same times in contuinuity between cut scenes, I always thought other than the Ford reveal there was something funny going on during the party scene
Fantastic explanations.
Also, 100% Ford will come back at the end of the season. The man in black will find him towards the end of the game
Loved ep.4 n that we were finally told about logen and the mib being grace's father ! Perfect
kimberley g - Yes, it was great that we're finally seeing some of the riddles answered!
I was SO worried the episode was going to end before MIB’s daughter revealed her identity. I was so happy with the confirmation.
ME TOO !! i thought they did that just perfect
kimberly g same. I was a bit worried they'd drag that mystery out too long since the hints they've dropped since season 1 pretty much confirmed to me immediately that she had to be his daughter.
yes her mannerisms {though more like theressa with the cig,} she just had that air about her , the contempt for the park and hosts..etc. i was so pleased in the way she rode up n said hey Dad....even though id told myself it was def.mib daughter
Not sure if its been pointed out, but Ford also arranged for Elsie to be present on Bernard's return to the facility, by making Bernard put her there after he captured her on Ford's instructions and now leaving him with a gun through Clementine's so Bernard could release her. Season 1 we saw Ford kind of trying to slow her down on her progress of understanding some of the underlayers of the park. Ford predicted her value to this aftermatch we're seeing, I believe she will be a key player in solving Ford's game this season.
As soon as the other hybrid being created reveal occurred, I thought it referenced Ford or William. Ford at first seemed the more obvious option after the "previously on" opening segment showed his referencing how their technology would possibly one day resurrect the dead. However, this season (Ford's posthumous focus) seems to be firmly on William/MiB and the game designed solely for him - 'the door'. The key message Ford gives about the game is that William needs to look/go back to the beginning. The notion that he will slowly regain his initial self (kind, empathic, moral, still vulnerable etc.) upon entering the park is clearly being signalled as a strong possibility through the unfolding redemptive process IDG describes. What I suspect is that the final meeting between MiB and young William will be a literal one, with Ford's superior mastery over the hybrid technology seeing a viable hybrid version of young William waiting for the MiB behind the door - the one entered to visit his father-in-law in the secret lab, with the view that the new young William takes a different path (preserving his original qualities). The show likes mirror metaphors and metamorphous themes, and the mirroring of this hypothesised meeting with the earlier ones between William/MiB and James Delos seems apt. Perhaps this Young William ultimately resumes his partnership and romance with Delores? Just a thought.
I like the idea that somehow Ford "uploaded" his consciousness to the mesh network, and this is how he is still influencing the hosts after his death. This would explain a lot, since how can Ford truly have control over what's happening if the hosts are starting to become conscious? Particularly, Dolores seems to be doing her own thing.
MIB says some men don’t deserve to live forever. Does that mean that he feels that some do?
Ford says Lazarus rising from the “cave”. Not tomb but cave. So we might conclude that Grace’s rescue satisfies this prophesy but could there be another who will rise?
Correction Elsie
It begins where you end, and ends where you begin...
That's death.
You can guess what Ford’s plan is or what, but mind I remind no one and nothing can be guessed and inferred. The thing is Ford’s character has a lot of power in the writers (Jonathan Nolan & Lisa Joy) imagination. They can give Ford what ever they desire and shape. He’s the bicameral image of the writers. He can’t be labeled as a protagonist nor antagonist. He’s the show himself. Westworld revolves around Ford (Sir. Anthony Hopkins).
I loved the "Who the hell are you" by Delos. Giving us the broken 4th wall that all of us think when we try associate the old William with the the young as being the same guy as they just do not seem to truly fit.
Yea height and body shape fit but they just do not seem like young and old are the same
I felt the "Return to the Beginning" episode was all Arnold memories and none of those I have seen exhibited by Bernard. If there is anything there it was from his backstory. Even Dolores asked if he knew anything of the man he was based upon?
Christian Meek - this is very true. I did wonder why Dolores might ask him if he remembered, assuming that she thought he was just a normal host. Perhaps she didn't think that ...
So I’m guessing by the end of this season the consciousness of Dolores, Maeve and the rest of the self aware host will be transferred into replicant host based off of the body’s of the humans saved by the ghost nation. This is how they can escape into the real world.
I had to think about this for a minute or two. This would be a very creepy end for the season. VERY creepy!
Kevin Kozlowski It would be super creepy but it’s the only feasible way I can think of that the hosts can make it out of this situation.
Well played!
I love your videos, and your voice. So comforting to know somebody knows what’s going in. ☺️
Launa Banauna - Thank you!
Bernard specifically states that the new hosts' code is something he has never seen... then
- he triggers the androids to kill the technicians and kill themselves.
- Bernard is a new host. He is not glitching because of the gunshot wound but because how he was made. His real memories and code are mixing organically.
- He has the same hand tremors as the MiB father in law.
- When found Delos looks into a mirror then Bernard looks into his face as though he were looking into a mirror
- Maeve could not trigger the Ghost Nation because they are the new hosts built by Ford (Delores, Clementine, children, Lawrence?) using the new code.
- Abernathy is a new host that is what Charlotte is trying to smuggle out of the park, not something stored within him.
*Guesses:*
- Emily has taken over Delos and she is the one refusing to send help.
- I watched this episode with earphones on and you can hear the static record player the entire show. This whole episode happens in the past.
- The reason Delos couldn't advance is that he didn't suffer.
D D - some really good points, thank you!
Thanks... new queries...
Why Abernathy?
Logan tells William when he first arrives at the park that his sister/William's fiance, Juliet, "rode a few Cowboys" when she came to WW. Remember that *the Delos family were at WW at least 5 years BEFORE William.*
I think that Juliet's cowboy was Abernathy which is why he malfunctioned when he saw Juliet's picture.
Now that we know that the host record everything it is not such a leap to think that William may have gotten ahold of Juliet's trists in the park and used them against her in marriage. Of course, this is hypocritical since his relationship with Dolores is no different than Juliet's relationship with Peter Abernathy.
It would also explain the lengths Grace/Emily went through to make sure that she did not sleep with a host, particularly since this may have been her mother's downfall.
So again... why choose Abernathy out of all the hosts available to leave the park?
*TOTAL TIN FOIL:::*
- What if Juliet is NOT dead or is just "dead*ish"?
- What if Grace/Emily and kinda not dead Juliet are presently in control of WW? (Which is why they wouldn't send in security until Abernathy is out.)
- What if Juliet is trying to save her true love, Peter?
- What if Juliet was in cahoots with Ford? She knew him before William.
Trope #234 ... if you don't see the body then it didn't happen. Very suspicious that they did not show Juliet's death just a hand...hmmm...
Wow, you are good D D
I also saw some link between Bernard and Jim Delos. Even I thought that Delos' conscience could have been blended into Bernard-season02. But maybe that's too much
"- The reason Delos couldn't advance is that he didn't suffer."
Is this what William tried in the end? Make James suffer?
I know this sounds a little wacky, but I think there are two major concepts that have been displayed now. One is the idea of booting conscious, and the other is to move consciousness from a person to a host. I think this will evolve more with the story and is the centerpiece of the storyline. This seemed to be made apparent by episode 4.
When the UA-cam video reviewers refer to old William as "The Man In Black" it shows old William and young William are so far separate that even our real life consousness can not price the two actors as being the same guy in the show
In Mythology the riddle of the Sphinx was "What walks on 4 legs in the morning, two legs at noon and 3 legs in the evening?"The answer was 'Man' (On a cane old age). Now how does this relate to the episode?
glenn klaus Thank you! I was also ganna point this out!
Not sure how this will fit into any theories (or if this is important at all)
During the railway constructing scene, I heard the workers yelling "hurry up" in Cantonese in the background.
FYI: Cantonese is one of the many Chinese languages and is mostly spoken by the Hong Kong, Macau and Guangjou people.
I hope I did not mishear that, the line "hurry up" seems to fit into ep4's whole "time" theme especially when one of the guys literally looked at his watch right after that line.
I wonder if there was a previous detail that can link with this?
Enjoying your videos a lot! Keep it up!
And it was going in the wrong direction according to MiB.
So if MIB is heading west, the railway is going east(Asia), which fits that Cantonese detail?
Well it's a park, after all, I shouldn't be applying normal geography here I guess
The Cantonese language kinda fits the time period tho. The central Pacific used Asian immigrants to help build the railroad . The union Pacific was made up by Irish immigrants labourers, veterans of the civil war.
Maybe they are laying a track to bring a large group of hosts to the valley beyond ?
yes I just knew about central pacific too and thought maybe this scene is just some reference to that time period, nice little detail you know. but we all know how WW never waste a second of its screen time;)
I was thinking more on host building it to connect with different parks, but what you said would be a cool use of this scene in the future, preparing for an epic showdown at the end of this season in that mysterious place!
Do you think we will ever see Ford in a new body ?( probably played by another actor since the show creators have said that Anthony Hopkins won't return propoby but this is not the last time we see Ford.). Since Delos is trying to transfer the mind to a host body but the it failing since they haven't fully cracked the code to. So they need Abernaty since he is the last piece of the puzzle to complete their plan. But what if Ford already cracked the code and when we see him talk trough the other host it is not just a ghost of him but his actually managed to digitize his mind and send the trough the mesh network that the host uses.Since the Door narrative was made for William and what I assume Ford want him to evolve to become a better version of him. In Fords final speach in season 1 he talked about on how someone paid attention to his stories since the park opened and that someone is William. He is on the side of the hosts after all and Ford want William to evolve to change perhaps to go back the way he was to become a better man then he is now and Ford respects William I think even though they don't fully see eye to eye. Not only that secret cloning think or the weapon Delores calls it his greatest mistake said by William.. So perhaps at the end William will to become a host in his young host body and he Will take the mantle from Ford helping the host make a new world a better world. We do Bernard take the orb perhaps it has something to do with transferring it to the host body. I think it was Ford who send Bernard to that secret lab.
At the end Lorence daughter ( or ford speaking trough her) say that the way forward is not the correct path so assuming that the way is look back and perhaps return the way he was for the Willia.
P.S another great video
actionvids35 - thank you! I definitely think that's not the last we've seen of Ford. He's been pretty much ever-present this season, despite his death!
*I think that the person who was paying attention was Juliet Delos* , Logans' sister, Jim Delos' daughter, Williams' wife, and Grace/Emily's mother.
Juliet was at the park at the very beginning BEFORE William.
D D perhaps,but I more on the ideas that it is William as he is the only one who visited the park constantly since it was opened. More to the fact t that the new narrative was made for him. Remember Williams wife and login are dead so it could not be about her
In Deep Geek yeah it could explain why he was so okay with dying
William was not there from the beginning. He came in about 5 years later. Juliet and Logan were there from the start. William brought in Jim even more years later.
Juliet has been woven into the fabric of the story from the beginning even if she was not seen:
- Logan tells William as he gets off the train for the first time that Juliet "Rode a few cowboys"
- The "cowboy" Abernathy malfunctions when he sees a photo of Juliet. As a host, he should have seen nothing, but he sees the image.
- We now know that all of the hosts record their interactions with humans. Therefore all of Juliet's interactions with Abernathy were recorded. We saw a lab tech being blackmailed for diddling with a host in the lab... imagine what William would have done with the same information regarding his wife the daughter of the man whose company he wanted to control.
- We see vestiges of Juliet in Grace/Emily in the lengths she goes through to make sure she does not sleep with a host. Is that because her father tormented her mother for the same???
- Out of all of the hosts why pick a supposedly malfunctioning host to implant gazillions of dollars worth of IP to smuggle out of the park? Or was it to free Juliet's lover.?
- Is Juliet really dead? First, they said it was pills then there was an image of a supposed suicide by slashing wrist? No face was shown... no positive ID.
Come on. Ford is the hostess with the mostest.
My main question is HOW are they transferring human consciousness, not where they are putting it but how are you removing it from a human mind (considering how fragile and complex just one person is, and all to the variations that make then unique.... including their memories), then containing it somewhere, and then implanting it into someplace else?
You can't code consciousness through just one or maybe even a few visits at the park(even still that isn't true consciousness), and it can't be coded by DNA?
It doesn't make any sense that they have to destroy the whole body each time, rather than just using a fresh 'brain' each time. As for transferring consciousness - me - not in any sense I can see, unless you had some sort of soul that latches onto the closest approximation of a host body.
A better example from the transhumanist community would be to have put his brain in a new host body - presuming it did not have cancer - then as the brain is sitting in there, map each neuron onto an emulator, and as it died from natural causes, you can fire up a replacement cell, presumably machine based but you could do use a rewired (new, young) brain cell with enough technology.
the advantage of swapping in machine brain cells one by one is that you would never have a moment when you died exactly... which i would find acceptable, even if it means my organic brain might only last around a century at best.
Dying sucks because of the pain and helplessness. Making it more abstracted and i expect it won't matter so much. And once you are digital, you can be fully, multiply backed up. So theoretically, you could live forever, or at least as long as you wanted, and yes, you would want a built in suicide switch inside the neural architecture, because the longer you lived, the more likely something BAD will happen from which there is no escape.
I'm watching again!! This is very very interesting!! I have several questions I need ask you, or J.T. Show about. Would Instagram b ok? I don't use Twitter anymore. I don't expect you to answer me IMMEDIATELY or anything. Maybe you could talk about/help answer them in a livestream or something??? Ttyl😘XOXO💜
bernard printed a "mind marble" of Arnold. Ford's last act is to give Arnold back the park, but with hosts that can evolve and progress dispite humans attempts ro control them.
The moment that girl told the man in black about a clue in his past I KNEW THAT YOUNG WOMAN FROM LAS EPISODE WAS HIS DAUGHTER. It explane why she didn't want to leeve the park.
Two small observations:
1. *"You live only as long as the last person who remembers you"*
--- This is the theme of Disney's *"Coco"* which takes place on Dia de Muertos. A good watch even if you don't have kids. MiB's discussion with his FiL could have been ripped straight from this film. Basically, it states that you can become immortal by people remembering you and the only true death is when there is no one left living who remembers you.
2. This is a game. Could it be that because the MiB did a good deed he was "rewarded" with extra "tokens"? He was allowed extra men/help to help him on his quest.
Anyone Else thinking it's cruel to kill a (Human-Host-Hybrid) HHH becauce he just have menthal troubles... why is his life with notting to William. James Delos isnt allowed to live outside the fishbowl because he isnt a exact copy???????
149 attempts over many decades. What an unbelievably significant amount of capital and (intellectual) resources devoted to this failed project. If a human consciousness cannot be successfully uploaded, then what can be salvaged to make the massive investment in the parks justified? One thinks there must be a Plan B, right?
You just known that Ford and Williams daughter are working together bcoz they both fucking hate Delos... And that's who Bernard was copying the control panel to... Williams daughter 😁
Imagine how crazy anyone would be after 35 days of isolation... then rethink the human-host hybrid James Delos (build 149)! Interesting when he screams for Logan!
imho, i thoroughly suggest - for a even more better understanding of westworld's themes and tropes as you deliver it here so wunderful and beautiful and very thankful received by me - a book, which is called "Daemon" by Daniel Suarez and one or two of youtube's game analysis videos for the pc-game "Soma". i have no money, i am poor - but i thoguht i give you some inspiration instead :)
I'm thinking Arnold's consciousness was perhaps the first successful implant into a host by Ford. When Bernard is in the lab and says something to the effect "Is this now?" I think that is a reference to the past. And when he has flashbacks of him ordering those hosts to kill the scientist, I think that was Arnold destroying all evidence of what Ford was attempting to do, namely preserving someone's consciousness forever. It seems maybe Arnold discovered what Ford had been doing with Mr. Delos all those years and had a moral epiphany and took one copy of that brain stem, had everyone killed and then had all evidence and data destroyed. This perhaps also led to why Arnold wanted himself killed. Maybe it was originally HIS findings that were possible with the transfer of the human mind to hosts bodies successfully and that if he destroyed all of it, Ford would not be able to recreate it. However since Bernard has Arnold's memories, that leads me to believe that he may have been Ford's first successful test subject and after that he realized he could kill himself but still remain conscious among the hosts now, forever.
What theory do you support about what human-host Ford wants Bernard to create? I am definitely of the opinion it is Arnold's brain that Bernard does implant into himself. Main evidence is the flashback in the pilot of S2 where Bernard has an Arnold memory among Bernard memories.
MrColler123 - I think you're probably right, and I'll be doing a video on it at some point soon ...
Wait are we sure that flashback was something Bernard was remembering??
well kind of... in this season Bernard doesn't understand the timelines, what is in the present, what in the past... And this "flashback" happens between 2 Bernard scenes and in the flashbacks there are only scenes with Bernard in it (and once with Arnold), then his thoughts as voiceover "is this now?" clearly indicates that he has those memories but can't tell when they happened and what time(line) he currently is in
Reason for him being so confused could be that Arnold's mind/consciousness/memories was/were implanted to Bernard's body, so he has his own memories (also those that were erased by Ford over the time) and those that Arnold had. Obviously that confuses someone if he has memories he never experienced and can't tell when they happened. That's why he glitches all the time
MrColler123
I believe Bernard glitches all the time because he removed all of that important Delos data inside Abernathys head and put it into his own. Second theory is that the control unit is not for Bernard. Arnold wanted to die. Ford wouldn't bring him back like that. Most will say the control unit is for William which is an obvious choice, but this show has a way of surprising us. I think its for Ford.
I always assumed they were Dolores memories not Bernards.
I like this show a lot but Iam fucking confused
The reference that everyone missed: Henry David Thoreau, writing in Walden, called railroad ties "sleepers" and asks, who are these sleepers? Dead railroad workers, Irishmen and Yankees. Thoreau writes that it would be nice if the sleepers could wake up someday. I have no doubt that the scene early in this episode, where William and Lawrence see bodies being used as railroad ties, is a reference to (or at least inspired by) Thoreau's metaphor in Walden.
So I’ve seen it pointed out that the interlocking hexagon symbols that appear on the secret project that grace-emily also had resemble an Infiniti symbol. Which would totally make sense being they’re trying to achieve immortality.
Eastworld is a new part of the park only Nardbern Bernard brother knows about. Also the Man in White (Logan Delos) will run into MIB and the turf war begins. 😁
I would be willing to bet that trauma is what overcomes the cognitive plateau, and therefore such a stress on trauma with the hosts. William has his epiphany about how life should not be extended through hosts probably very closely after his wife committed suicide -- that she wanted to die, and eternal life is also the potential of eternal suffering. He knows now that the hosts are an external life form never to be really reconciled with humanity except in external appearance. The difference between Grace and William could be that she is cognizant of the James Delos experiment and thought her mother should be revived for eternal life as Delos was, but William couldn't get across to her the range of suffering and malfunctions the experiment causes. William wants Grace to experience firsthand the horrific result so she can understand.
Honestly, I feel like Billy actually was using Papa Delos's host to experiment and understand and advance the tech, had no intention on bringing him to the world, even before. He inherited the whole thing from him afterall.
Absolutely for sure the best in the business...Thank you...This season is not going the way I expected based on the trailers. Mind f&!k territory!!!
The last time the MIB met resurrected Delos was extremely recent in the show’s timeline. He had his full MIB clothes when he met him, as he would wear in the park. He ordered the technicians to let Delos degenerate on his own rather than terminate him. The next scene, was Charlotte and Bernard discovering Delos in the room, fully degenerating. His face was full of blood and he had totally lost it. The MIB left him like this right before the park went crazy. This was the aftermath.
Earned yourself a sub.
Just a tip: they’ve teased Yul Brenner in cold storage, but if that isn’t him floating in the lake with the hosts I’ll eat my hat.
OOORR... william is the human host put into the MIB by ford, so that he can learn a lesson and change himself after death. That explains the fixation he has with the park and many other things.
U Sneaky sneaky man lol jk u must be on 3-4 hours of sleep max
The Justin Thomas Show - haha! I get a *bit more than that...
The Justin Thomas Show how do you do that??? I'm a night owl!! Can't sleep. I have Sleep Apnea. I'm supposed to sleep w/a mask that reminds me of some rebel force guy from Star Wars in his space ship!! Can't sleep on my side!! I've stopped using it. And Dr.s want to give you all these sleep aids. Just MORE medicine. My body just doesn't want/need a lot of sleep. I wake up every 2hrs like clockwork. R you 10hrs ahead of Eastern time?? Much love😘✌
I meant this message for Robert. I'm sooo technology impaired!! If I could get some decent equipment. Hard & soft ware. Or would help A LOT!!
What if it's not to make a new host with the new brain...... But to put that brain inside a Humans body? Like a parasite, hijacking the human body?
Great video Robert. Delos may not have figured out how to make the transfers, but I agree that Ford's knowledge of those things are far more advanced.