I think PD forgot how they made gr.3 and gr.4 somewhat good and exciting in GT Sport. They extended the roster of cars with fantasy versions and no one complained about that. I would stick with the modern GT500 cars from 2008 and add some DTM cars too. The selection won't be big enough, that's why I would introduce some GT500/DTM style fantasy versions of cars. For example: RX-Vision, Alfa Giulia and even a C8 Corvette in a GT500/DTM low body and high aero style. Anything older are basicaly GT1/LMP cars, which would create a new category. Adding other GT1 cars and LMP cars would make a nice category, I think. So you would have an actually fast category and a top speed category in a way that's historicaly acceptable.
P.S. : I just can't stop thinking about all the options they would have if they decided to create some fantasy versions. A Mustang, , a facelifted Jaguar F-type, the Lancer and Impreza gr.3 already almost look like GT500 cars. But I guess it would be too much effort, I would rather have new GT3 cars in a category that's kinda working.
That’s the thing! In GT6 they had cars that fit this role perfectly. The Zonda LM race car, XJ220 LM. The GTR concept red and blue thing, plenty of fictional cars that fit the LMGT/GT500 role and added life to the class. PD could literally do ANYTHING to add some value to the GR2 but they choose to do nothing related to new content, and instead strip downforce away from cars that already performed poorly in their class. A class with 10 cars where more than half of them are completely useless and pathetic.
That’s what it feels like. The equivalent of GR2 cars in older GT games used to be such a popular car type online and in single player races. Sad to see the watered down mess it’s become
I kinda hate how they nerfed the CLK and especially the F1 after 1.49. That car IRL could do north of 200 mph at Le Mans and now, with minimal downforce, it can barely crack 186 mph. It feels severely underpowered even without BOP, and it kind of killed the car for me.
The Toyota got killed too. Went from a high 1:35 at trial mountain to a high 1:37. McLaren got railed the hardest though. The downforce penalty really killed it. CLK got hit as well but I gotta drive it again and see what I can do with it.
Great video! That said 7:00 is only half true, in 2016 SuperGT cars were nowhere close the top hybrid LMP1s. The Fuji pole was 1:27.453 for the GT500 GT-R and 1:23.570 for the Audi R18 LMP1. That said the GT500 would still have qualified in front of the privateer non-hybrid LMP1s of Rebellion and ByKolles and the LMP2s. Still, personally I'd keep the 2016 GT500s in Gr.2, move the GT-One to Gr.1 as you said and add some more late 2010s DTM cars/current SuperGT cars (how is the GT500 Supra pretty much the only Supra variant not in the game?) and maybe a couple of the earlier 90s GT1s (Like the Lotus or the Nissan R390). I think Gr.2 should be for the crazier, faster GT cars, and the GT-One goes a tad too far into prototype territory.
For 7:00, I must’ve got the years mixed up but if I’m not mistaken there was a year where the GT500s were basically on par with the Hybrid LMP1s of the time. Regardless I do agree with your points, more content would certainly put a much needed bandaid on many of the issues I brought forth in this video. The entire point of the Group system is to have cars race competitively together. If all of the cars in a class are worlds apart on pace and there’s so few options to begin with wtf are we doing lol. 10 cars in a class and 6 of them are useless.
Want to know what I was thinking from the very start when I heard "traditional GT" was hoping we could take a stock car and tune or mod to gr4 then gr3 if it have a gr2 version well, gr2. That would have been super awesome.
Yeah Traditional GT my ass lol. I was very optimistic for this game and while it’s not unplayably bad it was very boring and just feels like GT Sport 2.0 with some minor improvements. That Stock car, to Gr4, GR3 then GR2 idea is super awesome. You should work for PD with ideas like that
I was waiting for you to make a video on the Gr.2s and the current state of them in GT7 I still can’t believe they made the Toyota GT-ONE a Gr.2 what was Polyphony thinking! Now that I got that off my chest I do like your solution with fixing the Gr.2 class I really wanted to make a video on this topic myself but I’m glad you decided to make one of your own great video as always!
Great opinion piece. I think in order for anything to work they need to add half a dozen to a dozen cars and divide them up into different subgroups and give us some more events that utilize those specific vehicles. You can do a group one VGT, group one modern, group one group C and then group two you can have the 2016 DTM and GT500 cars and then you could have the classic ones and the second subcategory and then have the LeMans style cars if you can only add another 3 4 5 LeMans cars would be an amazing GR2 class that would be just under the group C monsters and could make for some really nice multi-class races
This seems to be the most sensible solution if they don’t plan on modifying the performance of any of the existing cars. I have a feeling if they do have any wholesale changes planned they probably wont show themselves until GT8 (or whatever the next GT game is) which is kind of a shame. Multi class racing and leagues is one of my favourite parts of online GT racing.
There's a much simpler solution than you think right in front of you: place the Group C cars and post-2016 Class 1 (GT500 and DTM) cars in their own category, along with a more accurate version of the GT-ONE and the GR010. They're all close enough in terms of outright pace (current spec GT500 cars are _faster_ than LMH/GTP) that it shouldn't be that hard to BoP them. The '08 GT500 cars and 90's GT1 cars (assuming the F1 GTR gets its downforce back and maybe some mechanical grip as well) similarly sit fairly close as well, so everything lines up neatly there. All they need to do with the lower group is add some of the other GT1 cars like the R390 and 911 GT1 Evo, plus the Honda HSV010, and you have two fully-fledged groups ready to go. As for actual classification, shift the faster ones up to Gr.1, and put the true, modern Le Mans prototypes in a new group, Gr.P. My reasoning behind these classes actually ties into the PP system as well. I'd classify Gr.2 as any car that can be tuned to 800pp on medium tires without adding significant amounts of ballast or completely neutering the engine. The older GT500 cars do this quite comfortably, and pre-update 1.49 the GT1 cars had a remarkably similar performance window when detuned to similar power levels. Gr.1 as I envision it would be for cars that need extreme levels of detuning to hit the 800pp, but are incapable of reaching 900pp without additional engine power. While a few of the Group C cars (specifically the R92CP and XJR-9) are technically capable of reaching 900pp, they're typically exceptionally skittish and difficult to drive at that value, and detuning their engines to be roughly on par with the rest of their class places them neatly in line with the Class 1, Hypercar/GTP, and LMP900 specs. My theoretical top group, Gr.P, contains everything faster than that. LMP1, both hybrid and non-hybrid (except for the Long Boi GTR LM, poor bastard), and the overwhelming majority of the Vision GT Gr.1 cars slot into this top group without much effort.
This is the best suggestion I’ve seen and I agree with everything you said. Funny enough the last straw that caused me to create this video was the changes made in the 1.49 update. While I generally enjoy the new physics, pre 1.49 the balance between the older (non 2016) GR2 models was near perfect when a PP limit was applied. Now the balance is basically non existent which to me is unacceptable for such a small category. The Group P idea is super interesting to me and I think every prototype from the Peugeot 908 era and forward would make sense for it. Seriously man, what a comment lmao. You know your stuff
@@DoodRacing Don't even get me started on 1.49's performance changes. Before that update, I had a setup for the CLK LM at 800pp that made it an absolute joy to drive, to the point that I've had to perform the chassis and engine refresh at least four separate times, and the _sound_ the thing makes when you rev it out is easily the best in its class. That update completely wrecked its grip levels, to the point that it doesn't even match the older GT500 cars on mediums when it's on softs with incredibly aggressive downforce settings, and I've driven it about five times since. That comment was made from a place of passion, frustration, and sheer goddamn fury at the loss of one of my favorite cars to drive.
@@griffinfaulkner3514 I haven’t tested the CLK in terms of laptime. But it felt significantly faster than the McLaren with its 200lb downforce nerf. Though even the GT-One that didn’t lose downforce went from a 1:35.9 on trial mountain to a 1:37.9. As if it wasn’t already slow enough compared to the Group C Cars :/ All this meanwhile the 2016 GR2 cars got faster post 1.49. I had my CLK hooked up well too. Fuck.
@@DoodRacing The CLK might not have lost downforce, but it and the GT-One lost a good chunk of mechanical grip with the update. I suspect that's a result of tire model changes, with the GT1 cars having tire grip closer to what they had in their competition years, not what they'd have with modern tire tech. Give them that mechanical grip back and they'd be extremely competitive with the old GT500 cars, though the GT-One's horrible turbo lag might still keep it from competing.
@@griffinfaulkner3514 I have to assume racing softs have the same grip values for every car right? It would bizarre if they tried to match the grip of contemporary tires? And yes pre 1.49 the GT-One was the slowest “GT1” car on most tracks due to its turbo lag and severe understeer. But still was within a few tenths of the other cars. On straight line tracks it would come to life. Now it’s completely terrible at everything except top speed. Maybe a good Route X GR2 lmao
Bring back the GT rating system Gran Turismo used to have. GT1,2,3, GT350 and GT500. It worked. The Gr. system is too broad and has gaping loopholes whereas GT1 GT2 etc were more precise back in the day. Cheers
I’m right there with you. It also worked so well in GT5 and GT6 online races because the PP system actually made sense. So if you wanted to race cars fairly against each other from different eras and different specs, it worked pretty well. But I do love this idea of more specific classes
@@DoodRacing and break it down further with LMP 1 and 2 for those cars, depending on the year of course... The racing would be better and more fair. Back in the day, you would be a hero to race GT350 cars against GT3's. Cheers
@@baronblitzred6110 I remember I used to take that MRS GT300 to races it had no business competing in during GT6. I guess that’s part of the appeal for GT, with that being said for more competitive races, more structure is needed no doubt.
Dude this video came out of nowhere and I absolutely love it. Thank you for keeping it real and doing your research I agree with so many of these points, and on top of it you came up with some things I hadn’t even thought of! Everyone should leave a like and share this so PD can see it.
Bro honestly I feel like I have so much lent up rage from this game I could make a video like this almost every week 😭 will definitely make more moving forward. Glad you enjoyed :)
Bop is the biggest insult to racing pd have made! It is mostly a marketing tool to ensure that their “partners” have the most used and most successful car. Any reasons for the use of bop can be negated by the apparent dominance of a few “select” cars WITH bop! It does not level the field, it simply allows the developer to pull the strings of the player in a way that make money for the company.
Dude I couldn’t agree more. I think this is widely accepted at this point that the Official partner manufacturers as well as some of the other fan favorites involved with the GTWS competitions almost always have the best cars on BOP. GR3 is a class with 50 cars. Yet only 7 or 8 of them are really any good. For GR2 I don’t know it’s a similar rationale, but regardless the category is horrendously unbalanced with or without BOP.
@@superphonixlp4152 thankfully online races are more than just sport mode. There are many GR3 open lobbies where there are no BOP restrictions meaning you can race the viper in its full glory against other players.
8:01 To answer this question, the significant regulation changes happened in 2003, and again in 2014. So Group 3 class GT500 cars would range from 1994-2002... Group 2 GT500 would be from 2003-2013 And Group 1 (Plus the Audi DTM) would be 2014 to today
This would be the best case scenario in my opinion. I really hope they consider this when adding any mid 2000s GT500 cars. Would love to see cars like the Woodone Supra, Motul Pitwork Z in GR2
I would like to have more prototypes in general, the Audi R8 or the Bentley Speed 8. some of the new LMH or LMDh cars. Just more of them instead of another Jimny or another GT-R
Amen bro. Amen. It seems like a lot of race cars from the Early and mid 2000s have just been completely neglected. Lets hope they have some nice updates planned for 2025
One of the saddest part of the Toyota GT-One is the car itself almost being practically useless in the Gr.2 class category besides just for Trial Mountain Circuit, especially for a 1999 24 Hours of Le Mans race car.😭💔
Oh trust me it’s useless at Trial Mountain Circuit too. It’s almost 5 seconds a lap slower than the 2016 NSX GR2. I couldn’t believe the understeer the first time I drove it, and it’s only gotten worse since then
I'm happy that you made a vid like this. The Mclaren and the CLK need a sub category cus of its generational difference and performance and I actually think the DTM Audi needs its own category cus of the DRS if they want to make it realistic and that Toyota GT1 does need that upgrade or just have a different model like you said
I’m with you man. Although I will say despite the DRS the Audi seems to match up pretty well with the other 2016 cars. Regardless we will still need some kind of subcategories unless PD plans on making some wholesale changes to the performance of the slower models.
Having a sub category is a good point but the only issue is there's not enough cars to fit and there are only 2 to 3 cars per division of GR2. They should've just added more motorsport cars rather than adding classic or road cars on updates. I was expecting for Polyphony to add more newer or missing motorsport cars but all we get is some duplicate 911s and some shitass sporty variant of a Suzuki Jimny like come on
As much as I’m a road car enjoyer. I didn’t even know what the Suzuki Jimny was before they added it lol. Now there’s 2 of them!!! I really do think the 2000-2010 era of race cars is being neglected quite a bit. As well as the modern offerings in GT500 and GTP. Such a shame really.
@DoodRacing that's the tricky part, I personally think what ever the highest year currently is for group 2 is 2016 so I think the 2008 cars should still be in the modern category but anything older than 2008 should be classic
@@fatman1288 I hope 2003 is the cutoff year for GR2. I’m biased because I want the Motul Pitwork Z And Woodone Supra to be in GR2 instead of GR3. But I think 2008 probably makes the most sense in reality
I'm not 100% sold on moving the newer cars to gr1.. exclusively, but I think there could be room for a few cars to qualify for both. If they use a heavier rear down force bias in the BOP, those cars could be made to handle similarly to the older gt500 cars, and a different BOP for competing with Gr1. If the current range can't make a big enough difference, make the range of max and min wider, for a larger bias. The problem with moving them exclusively is the lack of other GR2 cars. The GT one being in GR2 with so little max down force is a shame. If they increased the peak down force to be competitive in GR 1 that'd be great. I have another alternative idea for upgrades. Gr1s have a single turbo upgrades, some have mediums, some high. My idea is fill out the upgrades, even ultra high. Don't force them to all to have the exact same output when maxed out. Let the current turbo upgrades determine the rough ranges, my old R92cp would get one weaker and two more powerful stages. Some cars only get a single more powerful stage and several weaker. Same should go for the other race car groups, I'd love to see some 1250 ish hp group c cars, before nitrous again.
Dude I couldn’t agree more. Especially with the power output ideas. So many cars are limited by their classification and it’d be really nice to throw that out the window. The R92 for instance was famous for making 1300hp in qualifying spec yet in GT7 it Doesn’t even get 1000? Also yes, the current range of downforce between maximum and minimum cant account for the performance differences between the 2016s and GT1s. Especially now after the new physics update they’re even further apart. The GT-One maxed out, an LMGTP car from 1999 is over 7 seconds a lap slower than the Mazda 787B at trial mountain. 7 seconds over a minute and a half basically lol.
@DoodRacing yeah those cars deserve better for sure. You could try suspension and differential settings too, but it might still not make a big enough difference. Also I'd like to add, I'd love to see the 2J get a power upgrade, some superchargers maybe, probably a few other upgradeless cars I'm not thinking of deserve some love
@@mattwells1036 I know the 2J only has just under 700hp stock but you could’ve fooled me into thinking it had 900+, especially in the top end it’s really slippery. That’s another car that’s kind of in between GR2 and GR1 performance levels. I only wish it were in a category because it would see far more use than it does currently
@DoodRacing yeah the fan blowing creates a high pressure area behind it when standing still, so it essentially acts as drag reduction and down force production, and it seems they took it into account. With some proper suspension and differential tuning you can hammer out the slipperiness. You used to be able to upgrade it too, can't remember exactly what power, but it was 900+ I think.
@@mattwells1036 even with 680hp or whatever it has I got a 1:32 with it on trial mountain which squarely puts it in the mix with the fastest GR2s and slower GR1s. It gains so much in the low speed corners because of the fan but then loses some in the high speed. Although I think even on its worst day it will still destroy that Genesis VGT thing they added to GR1. Love me some 2J action. Next I hope they add the 2D.
FREESTYLE GROUPS: those cars race in onemake events to those who wants to use them. Group Track Day: RS5 DTM, civic touring car mx5 touring car, radical, x-bow, Zonda R, P1 GTR, any road-going VGT car, “racecar” tagged cars that doesn’t fit any category that i mention Group Track Day H: Historic group, alfa 155, 250 gto, alpine old racer DISCIPLINE GROUPS: Cars race against each other Group 4F: FF Group 4 Cars, (so FF and MR renault variations have meaning, TT, Scirocco etc is here) Group 4: any other Group 4 car Group 3H: old gt3 cars such as Z4, E92, DBR9, older GTR, SLS, LMS Ultra R8) Group 3C: Concept vgt gr3’s (can be interesting because only REAL cars will race in gt3, but not necessarily needed) Group3: any other GT3 car GT500.1: Old supra, nsx and pennzoil gtr GT500.2: lexus sc430, 2008 gtr etc. GT500.3: new trio GT1H: clk, F1, TS020 trio Group C: name speaks for itself Group 1: Hyper Cars that are currenlty in game, LMP1’s, a group without concept cars Group BC: concept rally cars (or basically delete them from the game) Group B: factory liveried real rally cars in game) Group BH.1: old celica and subaru Group BH.2: peugeot, audi etc My personal opinion: keep the silvia in Gr4 but give it a fictional livery so unoffical team got that and modified it in order to race. My personal opinion 2: you can think this is too much but these categories will make easier to develop the game when adding a race car, and they can use this on GT8, no worries for groups with few cars. (I like groups with few cars, online races would be extremely competitive)
This idea is fantastic. And I don’t mind the smaller subcategories. I’m maybe slightly biased against it because I hate 1 makes and less variety. But variety really only makes sense if cars are balanced properly with each other. This structure is so well executed it would honestly work seamlessly. If people choose to race cars from different classes against each other it can be done via a PP limit. Let’s just hope they eventually fix that soon lol.
Moving cars up to Gr.1 seems more realistic, would also then be worth looking at moving the GTE cars up to Gr.2. The 911 and Ford GT are much better than the GT3 cars they’re BOPd back to why not let them be at a more realistic pace as well
Because they'd get obliterated, even by the older GT500 Gr.2 cars. For reference, the last foreign car to get entered in GT500 was a DBR9 GT1 in 2009, and it got absolutely _annihilated._ Also, with the recent demise of GTE, Chevrolet was allowed to run its Corvette C8.R in a detuned state in IMSA competition in the GTD Pro category (effectively GT3), so there's actual precedent there.
I’m not so sure about moving the GTE cars up to GR2 but I like the thought process. Hopefully future car additions can be put in a good position to where they’re competitive with the vast majority of the category, Not just 1 small subset of the category.
I found the Toyota GT1 how does a characteristic only described as rotation upon breaking allowing you to feather the brakeing and then aggressively hit the brakes upon entering the corner and entering with rotation and accelerating with that rotation making it one of the faster cars depending on skill level
I mean, it’s definitely not a slow car, but compared to the other cars it should be competing with its multiple seconds off the pace even with a perfected setup and driving.
For the most recent physics update, I have one for Alfa Romeo, all 3 BMWs, Ferrari and Porsche. Just head over to my page and they’ll all be in the videos from the last few months. There will be many more GR3 setups coming up early this year too! So stay tuned
before i even watch this video unless they add the following: Panoz Espernate GTR-1 Race Car ‘98 Lamborghini NOMAD Diablo GT1 ‘00 Honda KEIHIN/RAYBRIG HSV-010 ‘12 and just boost those cars to the max while capping the top speed and putting back the CLK and F1 to what it was previously with BoP, the class is done. there is no fixing it unless they tear it down. i was absolutely sick when i saw the GT ONE racing with the Gr.2 cars in the trailer (i think that’s when i saw it) and just went “oh look PD has done it again: created a problem that never existed on top of a bigger problem, awesome.” also this video did appear in my feed so it is in recommendations so you’re doing something right.
Dude I would DIE for those 3 cars along with a few others. Though in the case of Diablo I’m afraid they would put it in GR3 and make it terrible. A massive overhaul is needed with GR2. No question. Hopefully they start making some proper decisions before the release of GT8 because I feel like everywhere I look there’s a caveat or string attached to trying to get a race going in open lobbies. You want to race GR2, or GR1? It’s unbalanced and trash. You want to race GR3? It’s boring and been shoved down our throat for 8 years. You want to race street cars, the PP system is broken and easily abusable. So many things that need fixing at this point.
Well said, and your ways to improve seem completely logical. It's a shame that P.D. don't seem to share that enthusiasm or knowledge to want to do it. They may not even care, which is much worse than oversight. Hopefully, it's the latter,🤞. Like deployed 👍 😎🎙🏎✅️
Agreed man. It’s one thing to release the game with as many bugs and balance issues as GT7 had. But it’s even worse to not prioritize those issues and just leave the player base hanging for almost 3 years. If they weren’t so concerned with changing the physics engine every few updates then maybe we’d be getting somewhere
I tuned all of them to under PP900 and detune the Gr.1 cases to 900 and race with all them to see which one is the best. Is a lot of fun. But yes they need to bring more Gr.2 cars.
I don’t know if I have quite that much optimism but I genuinely pray you’re right. I just want to feel the same thing I felt playing GT5 and GT6 online
@@DoodRacing "Masterpiece" might be too lofty of a term but I expect a similar jump in overall content like what was seen in the progression of GT3 to GT4.
@@charliecharlie8621 that would be unbelievable man, I miss when games felt like heart was put into them and didn’t just rely on online racing to be decent
I'm not sure what PD was thinking when they decided to do this, as well as the state of the physics & tuning in the game. I feel like this game is a test run for Gran Turismo 8. 😮💨
Sometimes I don't feel like driving in Gran Turismo 7 anymore because it sucks seeing how many cars, including those from Gr.2 are unfairly faster than the others. What's the point of making a Nissan GT-R GT3 faster than a Ferrari at Monza, for example? Like what happened this week. Even in the Gr.4 class, there is nothing but jumping off a cliff. Those who drive 4x4 cars in that class not only have an exaggerated advantage - they feel like they own the world, crashing out anyone who comes within range. Not to mention that rolling starts are always in line with the cars that are who-knows-how-many meters away, disadvantaging all those who do not drive 4WDs and are at the back of the grid. And this is the disastrous part of Gran Turismo 7's already screwed-up Sport Mode.
The GT-One '99 was a victim of specific circumstances and I wouldn't expect too many more surprises regarding where prototypes are grouped in the future.
Ok, let me put it this way Gr.2 is the category in GT7 that has the faster NON PROTOTYPE race cars in ALL the game. You could argue that the Toyota doesn't fit, but I should remember you that road going GT-Ones exist. They might have made it a dog×××× to drive but at least it's coherent with the fact that the Toyota was meant to be a GT1 machine. In GT7 the GT1 cars have the wrong specs probably cuz those are the "unlocked" versions, the GT-One '99 for example is the unlocked version of the original 98 version. The '08/'16 GT500s and the Audi DTM car are in there because most probably they are the closest thing to a "modern" GT1 machine. I'm not trying to defend the Group 2, but I'm saying that we all should get some infos even outside of the game before saying the things said in the video. Insult me if you want, i have my ideas.
Here’s the thing, the 1998 Toyota GT-One was a GT1 car. The 1999 model was an LMGTP car that had to conform to completely different regulations. The road car version was meaningless at that point because the GT-Ones competition in 1999 was bespoke prototype racecars. If they added the 1998 version to the game I wouldn’t have complained, but the 1999 version was 7 seconds a lap faster in real life than the 1998 version. 7 seconds is a lot. Way more than enough to qualify it for GR1 status in my opinion. I appreciate the comment though man, I agree with a lot of what you said :)
As a motorsports fan this is why I'm done with GT. I've played since PS1 but honestly Kaz and PD have totally lost the plot. Nothing makes sense, the single player gameplay is a horrible experience and the economy is an actual joke for anyone who can't play 24h a day. Fun fact, those 2000 cars are way faster irl. They were built to beat GT1 cars and consistently outran the '97 longtail F1 GTR's that ran in JGTC.
The single player content that is there isn’t super offensive to me. Other than it being way too easy. There’s just no new content and it’s boring. I get on and I feel like there’s no reason to play. Open lobby was always my favorite part about racing online but even that community has been neglected. The only thing they put any effort into is the GTWS Esports Championship.
@DoodRacing I just cannot enjoy a race against the AI lol. If it were Sophy then it would be different but the standard is way behind the rest of the industry. You say it isn't super offensive but fr it's the most offensive part to me, especially when compared to GT2, 3 and 4. It's really shallow and as said earlier only worsened by the AI.
@@Flash_Mexxy The most annoying part for me is the last to first style races. You blow by the first 15 cars and they don’t even try to race you. They go out of their way to NOT battle with you by braking super early or braking on the exit of corners. It’s like the game was made for 2 year olds. It really blows when I catch up to the first place guy by 3 seconds a lap and then as soon as I pass him now all of a sudden I can’t pull away? It really breaks the immersion.
Only way Group 2 could be permanently relevant is if the added multi class races, like a full endurance race, just a shame they limit us to 20 cars on track which wipes that option off the board
Yes! We need more single player options for GR2. Sometimes they do special events that include them for the weekly challenges but that’s really rare. Some additional permanent races would be nice! If they did this and added more cars to the class I’d be somewhat happy with GR2, balance issues aside.
I love Gr2 races when they do show up every blue moon, but the group is def broken. my suggestion is unhinged and will likely never happen, but I think PD should partner with manufacturers to create new Gr2 cars (for example, Lamborghini could introduce the Essenza SCV12 as a Gr2 car). come up with a defined set of parameters for the cars, ie weight, hp, aero, etc. I doubt it’ll happen and even if it did it would be a slow rollout, but imagining an exciting new Gr2 category is kinda fun
If GR3 and GR4 have fictional cars why not Gr2? It would definitely add some life to an otherwise small and unbalanced mess. My vote is for the Zonda LM race car which last appeared in GT6
The issue is that it feels largely arbitrary. The longtail F1 GTR for instance, yeah, it's better than a Group 3 car yet it doesn't feel as good as a Group 2 GT500 car.
The struggle for me is also the tires… do racing soft tires have the same grip level for every car? Or do the tires adopt the capability of the tires at the time the car was built? Because that makes a big difference as well. I just wish more effort was put into making the cars fair with one another.
A54BUICKBANDIT here, I have not been a fan of the GR2 segment in GT7, it felt better in sport. And I feel since the last major physics update the category has gotten worse. There needs to be changes sooner then later for the GR2 (among other categories) but what do I know. PD looks at me as a shill who still gets on every night regardless of my complaints 😂
That’s the thing. They still have us now, but if they don’t start making improvements there’s plenty of other racings games out there to sink time into. Quality of life changes take way too long in the Gran Turismo universe.
For me they should take the 2016, 2008 and DTM car, call the class Gr.500 and cut the GT1 cars into their own thing. Then add the 4 global P2 chassis and make that Gr.2. Similar deal with Gr.3. For Gr.1, again, group C should be it's own thing. Get rid of the VGTs. 4 car classes are fine if balanced well.
I really hope they can balance them properly. Whether they do lots of sub categories or more broad bigger sub categories it all depends on how they balance them.
@ it’s literally a case of adding a few cars but we know PD is incapable of that. FM community succeeded in getting them to fix Forza GT in 8 months, we’re over half a decade asking PD to fix the Gr. system. Like in FM at launch even, group C and LMP1-H were totally different classes. People love driving these classes in MP.
Im tryna get a GR2 car from brand central but literally barely events justify the shopping. Like there are events thats GR 2 but i can just use a GR1 at that point
Yeah the GR1s can usually cover the 800-950pp range with relative ease. But the newer 2016 GR2s are unreal in the corners for 800-900pp. Honestly it would be mostly a purchase for variety sake, less to do with usefulness in the single player
I mean if PD wants to keep their stupid Group System at least give us the option to divide each group into smaller sub categories. It will make Open lobbies and single player a lot more fun especially if they start adding more content into GR2
Yeah the 2016s are faster than the DTM. Though with a proper setup the DTM car can still keep up on many tracks. And it’s also right there with some of the slower GR1 cars. But yeah the 2016 cars are insane.
While the Road car is known for being a little sketchy. Its overall grip levels are a little on the disappointing side especially when power is added. For the GR2 model the main issue is the lack of downforce. They stripped 200 total pounds of downforce from the car on the 1.49 update. Putting the power down in 2nd and 3rd gear corners has become more difficult since that update.
I just know I didn't know how to drive the gr 2 cars, like I thought I was doing good cause it felt smooth then I started a race n was losing like 7 seconds a lap.
Chances are you may have chosen a bad one. The differences in speed between cars in that category are very noticeable. With that being said GR2 is very much a category where you need to have a minimalistic outlook on your steering inputs so you don’t scrub too much speed off mid corner. The more speed you can carry the more that downforce will be working for you.
@DoodRacing I mean this was back in GT Sport and because it was my first time trying the category I went with the car that was topping the time trials.
All classes a kinda broken. Gr.1 you have LMP1 cars against Group C. In Gr.2 you have 30 year old GT1 cars against the 2016 GT500 beasts. GT3 is so large that only some cars are used. GT4 has some cars like they Bugatti that are just too heavy
Dude don’t even get me started on GR3 and GR1. I’ll be making different videos for those because they have their own unique issues. I totally agree with you man.
I actually wouldn’t mind if it preformed similarly to the 2016 GR2 cars and just stayed in GR2… I just want the car to be faster and more capable. The 1999 GT-One was way faster than the CLK LM and McLaren F1 Longtail in real life.
Yes I obviously know what it means. I just say G R for any potential new players that are just getting used to seeing the abbreviation in game. So they associate what I’m saying with the actual category.
The CLK of the GT7 specifically disappointed me, because in the GT4 it reached 1000HP, and exceeded 400KM. This GT7 CLK is very weak compared to the previous one, in addition to having 200HP less, it still struggles to reach 350KM. And to make matters worse, this car is an abyss away from the modern Gr2. The GTONE also seems to be much weaker, in addition to having a horrible engine noise, from the GT5 onwards the GTONE never had a good engine sound again.
Yeah overall the CLK was a slight disappointment for me. Up until the 1.49 update it wasn’t so bad though. After that update, it’s terrible, and the GT-One is even worse
The entire class system is a mess. All of them are broken. And sub divisions would work, theres only three OEMs in the GT500 class anyway. Also October 2017 to March 2018 isn't about a year. The fix is adding in more cars from the different era's ans have more classes. Forza does it well enough. But this is Kaz and PD were on about, and logic isnt their strong point. Moving the 2016 GT500s and the RS5 up a class is illogically. They would be awful and it makes no sense. Your solutions arent much better tjan what we currently have. The solution is s full re work.
Thanks for the comment. Honestly adding more cars would be the solution to a lot of problems in GR2 and even GR1. But I think there is some kind of solution that can be found with the limited content we already have. Although what might be logical to me may not resonate with others. My main rational for moving the 2016 and DTM cars up to GR1 is obviously real life performance, but even in game there are already several tracks where these GT500s are faster over a lap than the Group C cars and Toyota GR010. They’re also doing this with a lower power output. So while aesthetically it may not make sense, if we’re going to stick with this stupid 4 Group system I think they would be a better fit there.
If the GT-One is the worse Gr.2 car… Why are you begging for it to be in Gr.1? I’ve actually tried it against Gr.1 cars - particularly Group C - and… it’s outclassed. The GT-One was designed specifically for Le Mans; not almost every other track ever made, like the rest.
I want them to increase the performance on 1999 GT-One to a more realistic level based on its real life lap times. The lap times it’s capable of in GT are far too slow. The data I used in this video was from Le Mans but it wasn’t just Le Mans the car raced at. Consider at Fuji the GT-One had better 1 lap pace than the BMW V12 LMR and Nissan R391 prototype (not to be confused with the R390). Keep in mind the V12 LMR went on to race the Audi R8 Prototype and occasionally beat the soon to be dominate top category car. It’s a shame the GT-One didn’t race longer due to Toyota pulling the plug. But based on the data we have it was Gr1 fast
I think PD forgot how they made gr.3 and gr.4 somewhat good and exciting in GT Sport. They extended the roster of cars with fantasy versions and no one complained about that.
I would stick with the modern GT500 cars from 2008 and add some DTM cars too. The selection won't be big enough, that's why I would introduce some GT500/DTM style fantasy versions of cars.
For example: RX-Vision, Alfa Giulia and even a C8 Corvette in a GT500/DTM low body and high aero style.
Anything older are basicaly GT1/LMP cars, which would create a new category. Adding other GT1 cars and LMP cars would make a nice category, I think.
So you would have an actually fast category and a top speed category in a way that's historicaly acceptable.
P.S. : I just can't stop thinking about all the options they would have if they decided to create some fantasy versions.
A Mustang, , a facelifted Jaguar F-type, the Lancer and Impreza gr.3 already almost look like GT500 cars.
But I guess it would be too much effort, I would rather have new GT3 cars in a category that's kinda working.
That’s the thing! In GT6 they had cars that fit this role perfectly. The Zonda LM race car, XJ220 LM. The GTR concept red and blue thing, plenty of fictional cars that fit the LMGT/GT500 role and added life to the class. PD could literally do ANYTHING to add some value to the GR2 but they choose to do nothing related to new content, and instead strip downforce away from cars that already performed poorly in their class. A class with 10 cars where more than half of them are completely useless and pathetic.
Gr2 doesn't even have specifics events. It's just nowhere. Those cars are in the game just because...
That’s what it feels like. The equivalent of GR2 cars in older GT games used to be such a popular car type online and in single player races. Sad to see the watered down mess it’s become
@DoodRacing yeah they were... I'm an old GT player and back then.those cars were just awesome and had a well earned space innthe games.
@@AndresGrimace its a shame really, i loved racing with the gt500 cars. i hope they fix the system and make specific events for those in the future
@@roadsign289 didn't they put all of the Gr.2 Cars in the WTC 900 Events? Or that doesn't count?
Wrong. The class was meant for the 2016 GT500s and at the time if they were added in DTM cars.
I kinda hate how they nerfed the CLK and especially the F1 after 1.49. That car IRL could do north of 200 mph at Le Mans and now, with minimal downforce, it can barely crack 186 mph. It feels severely underpowered even without BOP, and it kind of killed the car for me.
The Toyota got killed too. Went from a high 1:35 at trial mountain to a high 1:37. McLaren got railed the hardest though. The downforce penalty really killed it. CLK got hit as well but I gotta drive it again and see what I can do with it.
Great video! That said 7:00 is only half true, in 2016 SuperGT cars were nowhere close the top hybrid LMP1s.
The Fuji pole was 1:27.453 for the GT500 GT-R and 1:23.570 for the Audi R18 LMP1. That said the GT500 would still have qualified in front of the privateer non-hybrid LMP1s of Rebellion and ByKolles and the LMP2s.
Still, personally I'd keep the 2016 GT500s in Gr.2, move the GT-One to Gr.1 as you said and add some more late 2010s DTM cars/current SuperGT cars (how is the GT500 Supra pretty much the only Supra variant not in the game?) and maybe a couple of the earlier 90s GT1s (Like the Lotus or the Nissan R390). I think Gr.2 should be for the crazier, faster GT cars, and the GT-One goes a tad too far into prototype territory.
For 7:00, I must’ve got the years mixed up but if I’m not mistaken there was a year where the GT500s were basically on par with the Hybrid LMP1s of the time.
Regardless I do agree with your points, more content would certainly put a much needed bandaid on many of the issues I brought forth in this video. The entire point of the Group system is to have cars race competitively together. If all of the cars in a class are worlds apart on pace and there’s so few options to begin with wtf are we doing lol. 10 cars in a class and 6 of them are useless.
Want to know what I was thinking from the very start when I heard "traditional GT" was hoping we could take a stock car and tune or mod to gr4 then gr3 if it have a gr2 version well, gr2. That would have been super awesome.
Yeah Traditional GT my ass lol. I was very optimistic for this game and while it’s not unplayably bad it was very boring and just feels like GT Sport 2.0 with some minor improvements. That Stock car, to Gr4, GR3 then GR2 idea is super awesome. You should work for PD with ideas like that
I was waiting for you to make a video on the Gr.2s and the current state of them in GT7 I still can’t believe they made the Toyota GT-ONE a Gr.2 what was Polyphony thinking! Now that I got that off my chest I do like your solution with fixing the Gr.2 class I really wanted to make a video on this topic myself but I’m glad you decided to make one of your own great video as always!
Thanks viper! I know we’ve had this discussion a few times before lol. Finally decided to organize my thoughts in a video. Glad you enjoyed bro 😎
I love Amg mercage Benz gr2
@@JeffWeselyan I do too, it’s easily the best GT1 car in GR2. I just wish it had other cars from that era that could compete with it
Oh I can believe it, it's like the Group 5 alfa in Gr.4. No logic at all, just vibes.
@@tecnoguy1136 yeah that’s how I felt too. Like wtf is that doing in here. 😂
Great opinion piece. I think in order for anything to work they need to add half a dozen to a dozen cars and divide them up into different subgroups and give us some more events that utilize those specific vehicles. You can do a group one VGT, group one modern, group one group C and then group two you can have the 2016 DTM and GT500 cars and then you could have the classic ones and the second subcategory and then have the LeMans style cars if you can only add another 3 4 5 LeMans cars would be an amazing GR2 class that would be just under the group C monsters and could make for some really nice multi-class races
This seems to be the most sensible solution if they don’t plan on modifying the performance of any of the existing cars. I have a feeling if they do have any wholesale changes planned they probably wont show themselves until GT8 (or whatever the next GT game is) which is kind of a shame. Multi class racing and leagues is one of my favourite parts of online GT racing.
This makes me worried if they decide to bring back the Bentley Speed 8.
Dude… the Bentley Speed 8 in GR2 would end me for real
Hahahaha doubt be daft. This is PD. we won't get anything nice. We'll get some Japanese box.
There's a much simpler solution than you think right in front of you: place the Group C cars and post-2016 Class 1 (GT500 and DTM) cars in their own category, along with a more accurate version of the GT-ONE and the GR010. They're all close enough in terms of outright pace (current spec GT500 cars are _faster_ than LMH/GTP) that it shouldn't be that hard to BoP them. The '08 GT500 cars and 90's GT1 cars (assuming the F1 GTR gets its downforce back and maybe some mechanical grip as well) similarly sit fairly close as well, so everything lines up neatly there. All they need to do with the lower group is add some of the other GT1 cars like the R390 and 911 GT1 Evo, plus the Honda HSV010, and you have two fully-fledged groups ready to go. As for actual classification, shift the faster ones up to Gr.1, and put the true, modern Le Mans prototypes in a new group, Gr.P.
My reasoning behind these classes actually ties into the PP system as well. I'd classify Gr.2 as any car that can be tuned to 800pp on medium tires without adding significant amounts of ballast or completely neutering the engine. The older GT500 cars do this quite comfortably, and pre-update 1.49 the GT1 cars had a remarkably similar performance window when detuned to similar power levels. Gr.1 as I envision it would be for cars that need extreme levels of detuning to hit the 800pp, but are incapable of reaching 900pp without additional engine power. While a few of the Group C cars (specifically the R92CP and XJR-9) are technically capable of reaching 900pp, they're typically exceptionally skittish and difficult to drive at that value, and detuning their engines to be roughly on par with the rest of their class places them neatly in line with the Class 1, Hypercar/GTP, and LMP900 specs. My theoretical top group, Gr.P, contains everything faster than that. LMP1, both hybrid and non-hybrid (except for the Long Boi GTR LM, poor bastard), and the overwhelming majority of the Vision GT Gr.1 cars slot into this top group without much effort.
This is the best suggestion I’ve seen and I agree with everything you said. Funny enough the last straw that caused me to create this video was the changes made in the 1.49 update. While I generally enjoy the new physics, pre 1.49 the balance between the older (non 2016) GR2 models was near perfect when a PP limit was applied. Now the balance is basically non existent which to me is unacceptable for such a small category.
The Group P idea is super interesting to me and I think every prototype from the Peugeot 908 era and forward would make sense for it.
Seriously man, what a comment lmao. You know your stuff
@@DoodRacing Don't even get me started on 1.49's performance changes. Before that update, I had a setup for the CLK LM at 800pp that made it an absolute joy to drive, to the point that I've had to perform the chassis and engine refresh at least four separate times, and the _sound_ the thing makes when you rev it out is easily the best in its class. That update completely wrecked its grip levels, to the point that it doesn't even match the older GT500 cars on mediums when it's on softs with incredibly aggressive downforce settings, and I've driven it about five times since.
That comment was made from a place of passion, frustration, and sheer goddamn fury at the loss of one of my favorite cars to drive.
@@griffinfaulkner3514 I haven’t tested the CLK in terms of laptime. But it felt significantly faster than the McLaren with its 200lb downforce nerf. Though even the GT-One that didn’t lose downforce went from a 1:35.9 on trial mountain to a 1:37.9. As if it wasn’t already slow enough compared to the Group C Cars :/ All this meanwhile the 2016 GR2 cars got faster post 1.49. I had my CLK hooked up well too. Fuck.
@@DoodRacing The CLK might not have lost downforce, but it and the GT-One lost a good chunk of mechanical grip with the update. I suspect that's a result of tire model changes, with the GT1 cars having tire grip closer to what they had in their competition years, not what they'd have with modern tire tech. Give them that mechanical grip back and they'd be extremely competitive with the old GT500 cars, though the GT-One's horrible turbo lag might still keep it from competing.
@@griffinfaulkner3514 I have to assume racing softs have the same grip values for every car right? It would bizarre if they tried to match the grip of contemporary tires? And yes pre 1.49 the GT-One was the slowest “GT1” car on most tracks due to its turbo lag and severe understeer. But still was within a few tenths of the other cars. On straight line tracks it would come to life. Now it’s completely terrible at everything except top speed. Maybe a good Route X GR2 lmao
Great video and excellent points. I think they seriously need to look into what you suggested. Might just be the right fixes to the class.
I appreciate it man! Hopefully we get some changes before the next GT game comes out.
Bring back the GT rating system Gran Turismo used to have. GT1,2,3, GT350 and GT500. It worked. The Gr. system is too broad and has gaping loopholes whereas GT1 GT2 etc were more precise back in the day.
Cheers
I’m right there with you. It also worked so well in GT5 and GT6 online races because the PP system actually made sense. So if you wanted to race cars fairly against each other from different eras and different specs, it worked pretty well. But I do love this idea of more specific classes
@@DoodRacing and break it down further with LMP 1 and 2 for those cars, depending on the year of course... The racing would be better and more fair. Back in the day, you would be a hero to race GT350 cars against GT3's. Cheers
@@baronblitzred6110 I remember I used to take that MRS GT300 to races it had no business competing in during GT6. I guess that’s part of the appeal for GT, with that being said for more competitive races, more structure is needed no doubt.
@@DoodRacing the ARTA Garaiya or the Wedsport Celica also need a comeback... Fun driving cars made that class stand out in my hazy memory lol
Cheers
Yeah what a great time to be a GT fan. Those car rosters were amazing
Dude this video came out of nowhere and I absolutely love it. Thank you for keeping it real and doing your research I agree with so many of these points, and on top of it you came up with some things I hadn’t even thought of! Everyone should leave a like and share this so PD can see it.
Bro honestly I feel like I have so much lent up rage from this game I could make a video like this almost every week 😭 will definitely make more moving forward. Glad you enjoyed :)
YOoooooooOO IT'S ME MITSUBISHI, DIDN'T YOU KNOW MADE VIDS, JUST SUBBED!
Thanks bro! Long time no see. Glad you found me lol
Amazing video Dood. Definitely do more commentaries like this. Although keep the tune videos coming too! Those BMW builds are amazing.
For sure man! Working on a new manufacturer either next week or the week after. A HUGE project coming soon too. May have a few tunes in there ;)
Bop is the biggest insult to racing pd have made! It is mostly a marketing tool to ensure that their “partners” have the most used and most successful car. Any reasons for the use of bop can be negated by the apparent dominance of a few “select” cars WITH bop! It does not level the field, it simply allows the developer to pull the strings of the player in a way that make money for the company.
Dude I couldn’t agree more. I think this is widely accepted at this point that the Official partner manufacturers as well as some of the other fan favorites involved with the GTWS competitions almost always have the best cars on BOP. GR3 is a class with 50 cars. Yet only 7 or 8 of them are really any good. For GR2 I don’t know it’s a similar rationale, but regardless the category is horrendously unbalanced with or without BOP.
My fav modern Gr.3 car is the dodge and it’s really good without bop. Yet they will never ever make it compatible in online races. 😢
@@superphonixlp4152 thankfully online races are more than just sport mode. There are many GR3 open lobbies where there are no BOP restrictions meaning you can race the viper in its full glory against other players.
8:01 To answer this question, the significant regulation changes happened in 2003, and again in 2014.
So Group 3 class GT500 cars would range from 1994-2002...
Group 2 GT500 would be from 2003-2013
And Group 1 (Plus the Audi DTM) would be 2014 to today
This would be the best case scenario in my opinion. I really hope they consider this when adding any mid 2000s GT500 cars. Would love to see cars like the Woodone Supra, Motul Pitwork Z in GR2
I would like to have more prototypes in general, the Audi R8 or the Bentley Speed 8. some of the new LMH or LMDh cars.
Just more of them instead of another Jimny or another GT-R
Amen bro. Amen. It seems like a lot of race cars from the Early and mid 2000s have just been completely neglected. Lets hope they have some nice updates planned for 2025
Now you gotta do a video for gr 1 and vgt cause both those classes are fucked. And alotta cars in gr x should've been put in a class
Dude, trust me GR1 is getting its own video and I’m not going to have very much nice to say… lol
@DoodRacing I use to make hybrid cars in gt5 and gt6 and gr1 can be fixed so easily it's not even funny
Love the passion and keeping it super real!!! 💯👍👍. All the best for 2025 good sir.🤝
Thank you man! I was hoping people would enjoy the different tone of this video. Wishing a great 2025 for you as well :)
One of the saddest part of the Toyota GT-One is the car itself almost being practically useless in the Gr.2 class category besides just for Trial Mountain Circuit, especially for a 1999 24 Hours of Le Mans race car.😭💔
Oh trust me it’s useless at Trial Mountain Circuit too. It’s almost 5 seconds a lap slower than the 2016 NSX GR2. I couldn’t believe the understeer the first time I drove it, and it’s only gotten worse since then
@ Tell me about it.😭
I'm happy that you made a vid like this. The Mclaren and the CLK need a sub category cus of its generational difference and performance and I actually think the DTM Audi needs its own category cus of the DRS if they want to make it realistic and that Toyota GT1 does need that upgrade or just have a different model like you said
I’m with you man. Although I will say despite the DRS the Audi seems to match up pretty well with the other 2016 cars. Regardless we will still need some kind of subcategories unless PD plans on making some wholesale changes to the performance of the slower models.
Having a sub category is a good point but the only issue is there's not enough cars to fit and there are only 2 to 3 cars per division of GR2. They should've just added more motorsport cars rather than adding classic or road cars on updates. I was expecting for Polyphony to add more newer or missing motorsport cars but all we get is some duplicate 911s and some shitass sporty variant of a Suzuki Jimny like come on
As much as I’m a road car enjoyer. I didn’t even know what the Suzuki Jimny was before they added it lol. Now there’s 2 of them!!! I really do think the 2000-2010 era of race cars is being neglected quite a bit. As well as the modern offerings in GT500 and GTP. Such a shame really.
Thank you I thought I was freaking out like there was something wrong with me or my PlayStation thank you
No worries man! Glad you enjoyed
We need classic categories!
Definitely. I think the question then becomes, what counts as a classic car? Is there a year cutoff? And does that year threshold change over time?
@DoodRacing that's the tricky part, I personally think what ever the highest year currently is for group 2 is 2016 so I think the 2008 cars should still be in the modern category but anything older than 2008 should be classic
@@fatman1288 I hope 2003 is the cutoff year for GR2. I’m biased because I want the Motul Pitwork Z And Woodone Supra to be in GR2 instead of GR3. But I think 2008 probably makes the most sense in reality
@DoodRacing we need new race cars in general new and old! I'm sick of the road cars that are just meh like 2 Suzuki Jimmy's lol
@@fatman1288 I didn’t even know wtf a jimny was until they added it. Now they have 2! Lmao we really lost the plot.
Boss man with another banger. Honestly, I like all of the fixes you presented here.
Thanks bro! 2025 about to be a movie
I'm not 100% sold on moving the newer cars to gr1.. exclusively, but I think there could be room for a few cars to qualify for both. If they use a heavier rear down force bias in the BOP, those cars could be made to handle similarly to the older gt500 cars, and a different BOP for competing with Gr1. If the current range can't make a big enough difference, make the range of max and min wider, for a larger bias. The problem with moving them exclusively is the lack of other GR2 cars. The GT one being in GR2 with so little max down force is a shame. If they increased the peak down force to be competitive in GR 1 that'd be great. I have another alternative idea for upgrades. Gr1s have a single turbo upgrades, some have mediums, some high. My idea is fill out the upgrades, even ultra high. Don't force them to all to have the exact same output when maxed out. Let the current turbo upgrades determine the rough ranges, my old R92cp would get one weaker and two more powerful stages. Some cars only get a single more powerful stage and several weaker. Same should go for the other race car groups, I'd love to see some 1250 ish hp group c cars, before nitrous again.
Dude I couldn’t agree more. Especially with the power output ideas. So many cars are limited by their classification and it’d be really nice to throw that out the window. The R92 for instance was famous for making 1300hp in qualifying spec yet in GT7 it Doesn’t even get 1000?
Also yes, the current range of downforce between maximum and minimum cant account for the performance differences between the 2016s and GT1s. Especially now after the new physics update they’re even further apart.
The GT-One maxed out, an LMGTP car from 1999 is over 7 seconds a lap slower than the Mazda 787B at trial mountain. 7 seconds over a minute and a half basically lol.
@DoodRacing yeah those cars deserve better for sure. You could try suspension and differential settings too, but it might still not make a big enough difference. Also I'd like to add, I'd love to see the 2J get a power upgrade, some superchargers maybe, probably a few other upgradeless cars I'm not thinking of deserve some love
@@mattwells1036 I know the 2J only has just under 700hp stock but you could’ve fooled me into thinking it had 900+, especially in the top end it’s really slippery. That’s another car that’s kind of in between GR2 and GR1 performance levels. I only wish it were in a category because it would see far more use than it does currently
@DoodRacing yeah the fan blowing creates a high pressure area behind it when standing still, so it essentially acts as drag reduction and down force production, and it seems they took it into account. With some proper suspension and differential tuning you can hammer out the slipperiness. You used to be able to upgrade it too, can't remember exactly what power, but it was 900+ I think.
@@mattwells1036 even with 680hp or whatever it has I got a 1:32 with it on trial mountain which squarely puts it in the mix with the fastest GR2s and slower GR1s. It gains so much in the low speed corners because of the fan but then loses some in the high speed. Although I think even on its worst day it will still destroy that Genesis VGT thing they added to GR1. Love me some 2J action. Next I hope they add the 2D.
FREESTYLE GROUPS: those cars race in onemake events to those who wants to use them.
Group Track Day: RS5 DTM, civic touring car mx5 touring car, radical, x-bow, Zonda R, P1 GTR, any road-going VGT car, “racecar” tagged cars that doesn’t fit any category that i mention
Group Track Day H: Historic group, alfa 155, 250 gto, alpine old racer
DISCIPLINE GROUPS: Cars race against each other
Group 4F: FF Group 4 Cars, (so FF and MR renault variations have meaning, TT, Scirocco etc is here)
Group 4: any other Group 4 car
Group 3H: old gt3 cars such as Z4, E92, DBR9, older GTR, SLS, LMS Ultra R8)
Group 3C: Concept vgt gr3’s (can be interesting because only REAL cars will race in gt3, but not necessarily needed)
Group3: any other GT3 car
GT500.1: Old supra, nsx and pennzoil gtr
GT500.2: lexus sc430, 2008 gtr etc.
GT500.3: new trio
GT1H: clk, F1, TS020 trio
Group C: name speaks for itself
Group 1: Hyper Cars that are currenlty in game, LMP1’s, a group without concept cars
Group BC: concept rally cars (or basically delete them from the game)
Group B: factory liveried real rally cars in game)
Group BH.1: old celica and subaru
Group BH.2: peugeot, audi etc
My personal opinion: keep the silvia in Gr4 but give it a fictional livery so unoffical team got that and modified it in order to race.
My personal opinion 2: you can think this is too much but these categories will make easier to develop the game when adding a race car, and they can use this on GT8, no worries for groups with few cars. (I like groups with few cars, online races would be extremely competitive)
This idea is fantastic. And I don’t mind the smaller subcategories. I’m maybe slightly biased against it because I hate 1 makes and less variety. But variety really only makes sense if cars are balanced properly with each other. This structure is so well executed it would honestly work seamlessly. If people choose to race cars from different classes against each other it can be done via a PP limit. Let’s just hope they eventually fix that soon lol.
Moving cars up to Gr.1 seems more realistic, would also then be worth looking at moving the GTE cars up to Gr.2. The 911 and Ford GT are much better than the GT3 cars they’re BOPd back to why not let them be at a more realistic pace as well
Because they'd get obliterated, even by the older GT500 Gr.2 cars. For reference, the last foreign car to get entered in GT500 was a DBR9 GT1 in 2009, and it got absolutely _annihilated._ Also, with the recent demise of GTE, Chevrolet was allowed to run its Corvette C8.R in a detuned state in IMSA competition in the GTD Pro category (effectively GT3), so there's actual precedent there.
I’m not so sure about moving the GTE cars up to GR2 but I like the thought process. Hopefully future car additions can be put in a good position to where they’re competitive with the vast majority of the category, Not just 1 small subset of the category.
Jam up job on this video bro 🍾🤙🏼
Thanks Paymay! 2025 might be our year fr
I found the Toyota GT1 how does a characteristic only described as rotation upon breaking allowing you to feather the brakeing and then aggressively hit the brakes upon entering the corner and entering with rotation and accelerating with that rotation making it one of the faster cars depending on skill level
The car should be in gr.1 this game needs to be revised and the old race cars need a group or something
I mean, it’s definitely not a slow car, but compared to the other cars it should be competing with its multiple seconds off the pace even with a perfected setup and driving.
I completely agree. This car in GR1 would fit in perfectly
Gr2 has so much potential such a shame
We lost the plot without question
Hey bro do you have any gr3 set ups I’m useless at tuning
For the most recent physics update, I have one for Alfa Romeo, all 3 BMWs, Ferrari and Porsche. Just head over to my page and they’ll all be in the videos from the last few months. There will be many more GR3 setups coming up early this year too! So stay tuned
@ ah il look again I did look before but couldn’t see them, your one of the best guys out there for tuning man. Thank you so much ❤️
before i even watch this video
unless they add the following:
Panoz Espernate GTR-1 Race Car ‘98
Lamborghini NOMAD Diablo GT1 ‘00
Honda KEIHIN/RAYBRIG HSV-010 ‘12
and just boost those cars to the max while capping the top speed and putting back the CLK and F1 to what it was previously with BoP, the class is done. there is no fixing it unless they tear it down. i was absolutely sick when i saw the GT ONE racing with the Gr.2 cars in the trailer (i think that’s when i saw it) and just went “oh look PD has done it again: created a problem that never existed on top of a bigger problem, awesome.”
also this video did appear in my feed so it is in recommendations so you’re doing something right.
Dude I would DIE for those 3 cars along with a few others. Though in the case of Diablo I’m afraid they would put it in GR3 and make it terrible.
A massive overhaul is needed with GR2. No question. Hopefully they start making some proper decisions before the release of GT8 because I feel like everywhere I look there’s a caveat or string attached to trying to get a race going in open lobbies.
You want to race GR2, or GR1? It’s unbalanced and trash.
You want to race GR3? It’s boring and been shoved down our throat for 8 years.
You want to race street cars, the PP system is broken and easily abusable.
So many things that need fixing at this point.
Well said, and your ways to improve seem completely logical. It's a shame that P.D. don't seem to share that enthusiasm or knowledge to want to do it. They may not even care, which is much worse than oversight. Hopefully, it's the latter,🤞.
Like deployed 👍
😎🎙🏎✅️
Agreed man. It’s one thing to release the game with as many bugs and balance issues as GT7 had. But it’s even worse to not prioritize those issues and just leave the player base hanging for almost 3 years. If they weren’t so concerned with changing the physics engine every few updates then maybe we’d be getting somewhere
@DoodRacing 100% valid, 🙌.
A better title would be "gt7 is broken".
Oh if I went over all the reasons GT7 is broken it wouldn’t be a video, it would be a 3 part documentary. 😂
Gr2 cars I can drive whilst zoning out, the amount of grip is beautiful.
@@_-_.7 I KNOW. They’re so smooth and really fun to drive at the limit. I’m right there with you
All valid points about "the real driving simulator"
Hopefully we can see some positive changes soon!
I tuned all of them to under PP900 and detune the Gr.1 cases to 900 and race with all them to see which one is the best. Is a lot of fun.
But yes they need to bring more Gr.2 cars.
More GR1 and GR2 cars would certainly be welcome. Ideally not VGT models… but real ones lol
I'm just ready for GT8 at this point. I can feel in my bones that it will be a masterpiece.
I don’t know if I have quite that much optimism but I genuinely pray you’re right. I just want to feel the same thing I felt playing GT5 and GT6 online
@@DoodRacing "Masterpiece" might be too lofty of a term but I expect a similar jump in overall content like what was seen in the progression of GT3 to GT4.
@@charliecharlie8621 that would be unbelievable man, I miss when games felt like heart was put into them and didn’t just rely on online racing to be decent
I'm not sure what PD was thinking when they decided to do this, as well as the state of the physics & tuning in the game.
I feel like this game is a test run for Gran Turismo 8. 😮💨
Dude for real I’m tired of being a beta tester
Sometimes I don't feel like driving in Gran Turismo 7 anymore because it sucks seeing how many cars, including those from Gr.2 are unfairly faster than the others. What's the point of making a Nissan GT-R GT3 faster than a Ferrari at Monza, for example? Like what happened this week.
Even in the Gr.4 class, there is nothing but jumping off a cliff. Those who drive 4x4 cars in that class not only have an exaggerated advantage - they feel like they own the world, crashing out anyone who comes within range. Not to mention that rolling starts are always in line with the cars that are who-knows-how-many meters away, disadvantaging all those who do not drive 4WDs and are at the back of the grid. And this is the disastrous part of Gran Turismo 7's already screwed-up Sport Mode.
The GT-One '99 was a victim of specific circumstances and I wouldn't expect too many more surprises regarding where prototypes are grouped in the future.
I really hope you’re right. The day I see the Bentley Speed 8 added to GR2 is the day I punch a hole through my monitor
Ok, let me put it this way
Gr.2 is the category in GT7 that has the faster NON PROTOTYPE race cars in ALL the game. You could argue that the Toyota doesn't fit, but I should remember you that road going GT-Ones exist. They might have made it a dog×××× to drive but at least it's coherent with the fact that the Toyota was meant to be a GT1 machine. In GT7 the GT1 cars have the wrong specs probably cuz those are the "unlocked" versions, the GT-One '99 for example is the unlocked version of the original 98 version. The '08/'16 GT500s and the Audi DTM car are in there because most probably they are the closest thing to a "modern" GT1 machine. I'm not trying to defend the Group 2, but I'm saying that we all should get some infos even outside of the game before saying the things said in the video. Insult me if you want, i have my ideas.
Here’s the thing, the 1998 Toyota GT-One was a GT1 car. The 1999 model was an LMGTP car that had to conform to completely different regulations. The road car version was meaningless at that point because the GT-Ones competition in 1999 was bespoke prototype racecars.
If they added the 1998 version to the game I wouldn’t have complained, but the 1999 version was 7 seconds a lap faster in real life than the 1998 version. 7 seconds is a lot. Way more than enough to qualify it for GR1 status in my opinion.
I appreciate the comment though man, I agree with a lot of what you said :)
As a motorsports fan this is why I'm done with GT. I've played since PS1 but honestly Kaz and PD have totally lost the plot. Nothing makes sense, the single player gameplay is a horrible experience and the economy is an actual joke for anyone who can't play 24h a day.
Fun fact, those 2000 cars are way faster irl. They were built to beat GT1 cars and consistently outran the '97 longtail F1 GTR's that ran in JGTC.
The single player content that is there isn’t super offensive to me. Other than it being way too easy. There’s just no new content and it’s boring. I get on and I feel like there’s no reason to play.
Open lobby was always my favorite part about racing online but even that community has been neglected. The only thing they put any effort into is the GTWS Esports Championship.
@DoodRacing I just cannot enjoy a race against the AI lol. If it were Sophy then it would be different but the standard is way behind the rest of the industry.
You say it isn't super offensive but fr it's the most offensive part to me, especially when compared to GT2, 3 and 4. It's really shallow and as said earlier only worsened by the AI.
@@Flash_Mexxy The most annoying part for me is the last to first style races. You blow by the first 15 cars and they don’t even try to race you. They go out of their way to NOT battle with you by braking super early or braking on the exit of corners. It’s like the game was made for 2 year olds. It really blows when I catch up to the first place guy by 3 seconds a lap and then as soon as I pass him now all of a sudden I can’t pull away? It really breaks the immersion.
The Premiere!!!
Yup we out here!!!!!
Only way Group 2 could be permanently relevant is if the added multi class races, like a full endurance race, just a shame they limit us to 20 cars on track which wipes that option off the board
Yes! We need more single player options for GR2. Sometimes they do special events that include them for the weekly challenges but that’s really rare. Some additional permanent races would be nice! If they did this and added more cars to the class I’d be somewhat happy with GR2, balance issues aside.
I love Gr2 races when they do show up every blue moon, but the group is def broken. my suggestion is unhinged and will likely never happen, but I think PD should partner with manufacturers to create new Gr2 cars (for example, Lamborghini could introduce the Essenza SCV12 as a Gr2 car). come up with a defined set of parameters for the cars, ie weight, hp, aero, etc. I doubt it’ll happen and even if it did it would be a slow rollout, but imagining an exciting new Gr2 category is kinda fun
If GR3 and GR4 have fictional cars why not Gr2? It would definitely add some life to an otherwise small and unbalanced mess. My vote is for the Zonda LM race car which last appeared in GT6
2016 GT500 cars are 100% close in pace to Hypercars from 2021, it would make sense to have them in GR1
Let’s just hope they have the balls to do it! Who knows what they’re thinking at this point…
The issue is that it feels largely arbitrary. The longtail F1 GTR for instance, yeah, it's better than a Group 3 car yet it doesn't feel as good as a Group 2 GT500 car.
The struggle for me is also the tires… do racing soft tires have the same grip level for every car? Or do the tires adopt the capability of the tires at the time the car was built? Because that makes a big difference as well. I just wish more effort was put into making the cars fair with one another.
A54BUICKBANDIT here, I have not been a fan of the GR2 segment in GT7, it felt better in sport. And I feel since the last major physics update the category has gotten worse. There needs to be changes sooner then later for the GR2 (among other categories) but what do I know. PD looks at me as a shill who still gets on every night regardless of my complaints 😂
That’s the thing. They still have us now, but if they don’t start making improvements there’s plenty of other racings games out there to sink time into. Quality of life changes take way too long in the Gran Turismo universe.
For me they should take the 2016, 2008 and DTM car, call the class Gr.500 and cut the GT1 cars into their own thing. Then add the 4 global P2 chassis and make that Gr.2. Similar deal with Gr.3. For Gr.1, again, group C should be it's own thing. Get rid of the VGTs. 4 car classes are fine if balanced well.
I really hope they can balance them properly. Whether they do lots of sub categories or more broad bigger sub categories it all depends on how they balance them.
@ it’s literally a case of adding a few cars but we know PD is incapable of that.
FM community succeeded in getting them to fix Forza GT in 8 months, we’re over half a decade asking PD to fix the Gr. system.
Like in FM at launch even, group C and LMP1-H were totally different classes. People love driving these classes in MP.
Im tryna get a GR2 car from brand central but literally barely events justify the shopping. Like there are events thats GR 2 but i can just use a GR1 at that point
Yeah the GR1s can usually cover the 800-950pp range with relative ease. But the newer 2016 GR2s are unreal in the corners for 800-900pp. Honestly it would be mostly a purchase for variety sake, less to do with usefulness in the single player
You know, The Subcategories idea is actually not a bad idea
I mean if PD wants to keep their stupid Group System at least give us the option to divide each group into smaller sub categories. It will make Open lobbies and single player a lot more fun especially if they start adding more content into GR2
I did a race at St Croix and the 2016 SuperGT's destroyed me towards the end of the race while I was in the Audi RS5
This was online btw
Yeah the 2016s are faster than the DTM. Though with a proper setup the DTM car can still keep up on many tracks. And it’s also right there with some of the slower GR1 cars. But yeah the 2016 cars are insane.
@@DoodRacing Thanks for the info!
@@jkspeed3677 no worries :)
If you consider group as a "Gi are 1, Gi are 2" is a bad start to put the groups in order.. start to call it a group.
I would like more specific names for the Groups as well. This number formula just doesn’t work when PD has such a hard time balancing the cars.
@DoodRacing startto call it a GROUP... otherwise "Gi Are "(nonesense ) is what you get..
Why is the McLaren F1 road car and F1 GTR Longtail Group 2 have so much wheelspin? Is it like that in real life?
While the Road car is known for being a little sketchy. Its overall grip levels are a little on the disappointing side especially when power is added. For the GR2 model the main issue is the lack of downforce. They stripped 200 total pounds of downforce from the car on the 1.49 update. Putting the power down in 2nd and 3rd gear corners has become more difficult since that update.
I just know I didn't know how to drive the gr 2 cars, like I thought I was doing good cause it felt smooth then I started a race n was losing like 7 seconds a lap.
Chances are you may have chosen a bad one. The differences in speed between cars in that category are very noticeable. With that being said GR2 is very much a category where you need to have a minimalistic outlook on your steering inputs so you don’t scrub too much speed off mid corner. The more speed you can carry the more that downforce will be working for you.
@DoodRacing I mean this was back in GT Sport and because it was my first time trying the category I went with the car that was topping the time trials.
All classes a kinda broken. Gr.1 you have LMP1 cars against Group C. In Gr.2 you have 30 year old GT1 cars against the 2016 GT500 beasts. GT3 is so large that only some cars are used. GT4 has some cars like they Bugatti that are just too heavy
Dude don’t even get me started on GR3 and GR1. I’ll be making different videos for those because they have their own unique issues. I totally agree with you man.
this is a hot take but i think i would just make the GT-one be placed in GR.2 since its best there but also the fact it just needs more downforce
I actually wouldn’t mind if it preformed similarly to the 2016 GR2 cars and just stayed in GR2… I just want the car to be faster and more capable. The 1999 GT-One was way faster than the CLK LM and McLaren F1 Longtail in real life.
Good video! Just the right amount of furious disappointment….
Definitely got a little upset recording this one 😂 but I think my points were well thought out at least. Glad you enjoyed :)
Subscribed
@@Racernumbersix much appreciated bro!
You know the Gr stands for group right?
Yes I obviously know what it means. I just say G R for any potential new players that are just getting used to seeing the abbreviation in game. So they associate what I’m saying with the actual category.
Gr.1 has been really quiet after this video 😂😂
GR1 Or what I like to refer to it as, VGTR1, is going to get a video too don’t worry. That class might be even worse lol
The CLK of the GT7 specifically disappointed me, because in the GT4 it reached 1000HP, and exceeded 400KM. This GT7 CLK is very weak compared to the previous one, in addition to having 200HP less, it still struggles to reach 350KM. And to make matters worse, this car is an abyss away from the modern Gr2. The GTONE also seems to be much weaker, in addition to having a horrible engine noise, from the GT5 onwards the GTONE never had a good engine sound again.
Yeah overall the CLK was a slight disappointment for me. Up until the 1.49 update it wasn’t so bad though. After that update, it’s terrible, and the GT-One is even worse
What do you mean Gr. 2 in GT7 is broken and messed up? WHAT DO YOU MEAN?!
Unbalanced. Unrealistic and unenjoyable to race with one another. (for the most part)
@@DoodRacing
I was shocked to learn about this, but I was also completely frustrated as well.
Turning 1 syllable into 2.
So much extra time saying that extra syllable that I’ll never get back. Such a shame
Its moving further away from a realistic sim every month!
I’m afraid you might be correct
Can you make your next video okyway?
Say what
Oh wow, video games
Thanks DriftingShot13
The entire class system is a mess. All of them are broken. And sub divisions would work, theres only three OEMs in the GT500 class anyway. Also October 2017 to March 2018 isn't about a year.
The fix is adding in more cars from the different era's ans have more classes. Forza does it well enough. But this is Kaz and PD were on about, and logic isnt their strong point.
Moving the 2016 GT500s and the RS5 up a class is illogically. They would be awful and it makes no sense. Your solutions arent much better tjan what we currently have. The solution is s full re work.
Thanks for the comment. Honestly adding more cars would be the solution to a lot of problems in GR2 and even GR1. But I think there is some kind of solution that can be found with the limited content we already have. Although what might be logical to me may not resonate with others.
My main rational for moving the 2016 and DTM cars up to GR1 is obviously real life performance, but even in game there are already several tracks where these GT500s are faster over a lap than the Group C cars and Toyota GR010. They’re also doing this with a lower power output. So while aesthetically it may not make sense, if we’re going to stick with this stupid 4 Group system I think they would be a better fit there.
If the GT-One is the worse Gr.2 car…
Why are you begging for it to be in Gr.1?
I’ve actually tried it against Gr.1 cars - particularly Group C - and… it’s outclassed.
The GT-One was designed specifically for Le Mans; not almost every other track ever made, like the rest.
I want them to increase the performance on 1999 GT-One to a more realistic level based on its real life lap times. The lap times it’s capable of in GT are far too slow.
The data I used in this video was from Le Mans but it wasn’t just Le Mans the car raced at. Consider at Fuji the GT-One had better 1 lap pace than the BMW V12 LMR and Nissan R391 prototype (not to be confused with the R390). Keep in mind the V12 LMR went on to race the Audi R8 Prototype and occasionally beat the soon to be dominate top category car.
It’s a shame the GT-One didn’t race longer due to Toyota pulling the plug. But based on the data we have it was Gr1 fast
2025 we back!!!’
🔥
Why Gr2 broken
Unbalanced and unfun. At least compared to older GT games