Timestamps for jumping around :) : 00:00 - Intro 00:25 - Reason for upgrading to Schaller Lockmeister 01:49 - Testing Process Explained 03:01 - Personal Assumption 03:27 - Chord A / B Tone Tests 04:09 - Single Notes A / B Tone Tests 05:07 - Sustain Notes Tests 06:46 - Personal Analysis of the results 08:37 - Personal Feel of the upgraded guitar 10:03 - Tuning stability upgrade info 10:32 - Outro
Paul Reed Smith himself said that everything on a guitar affects the tone. It's why PRS guitars are made with such high attention to detail. It's so that one shonky part or setup doesn't ruin the tone of all the other high-end parts and setup. A guitar is the sum of its parts and setup and that sum is a complex interaction rather than just an additive process. Great video. Luv and Peace.
@@givemeajackson He also sell guitars for 600 bucks that sounds amazing. The non locking tremolo system on one of those 600 bucks guitars held the tuning better than my old Floyd Rose Special double locking which says a lot
@@mathias6423 suspiciously his 600 bucks guitars that aren't infused with voodoo, pastriotism and toanwood still sound good... wonder how that works... i wonder if guitarists will ever be able to accept that it's ok to want a guitar cause it looks nice and is well put together without having to justify their purchase with "my organic woody breathing toan" snakeoil esoterics.
Dude, that's what I call a nice video! The difference you hear and feel will be caused by the way the arm is attached to it and the spring block material. Some are made of metal and some of some sort of alloy. As looser and wiggling the arm is attached, you will dissipate the vibration energy and your sustain will occur. if you have steel spring block your sustain will increase (Floyd Rose special has not the steel block so you may experience a short sustain and heavy dissipating of vibrating energy a the bridge. with steel block you'll have the fuller tonal frequency ringing and more sustain. With brass, little more high frequency and more sustain. With alloy ( cheap as floyd special and other licensed) you have a lack of highs and lows; also a lack of sustain. Sustain will be heavily noticed at the way the trem arm is attached + the sustain block's material. That's why you and mostly every one prefers steel/brass. Futone and Manara build these blocks. Since Floyd and Schaller are using the same hard steel for their plates, you can buy just the sustain block to increase quality, and you will be blown away by the increasing changes. About Schaller I DO PREFER the model non-lockmeister 'cause when the knife edges are worn, I can Just replace the little knife edges and not the whole base plate. Yet about the the arm issue. The floyd's attach-in system is the most tight you'll get. This will provide even more sensibility and increase the sustain to the full sustain you'll ever get on a floyd system. I changed the arm for this attach-in system and now the fluttering effect is almost infinite. The perfect inertia was achieved.
Hello, I have an American Charvel guitar, there is a Korean Floyd Rose, the tremolo is practically on the body of the guitar, I practically do not use the thermolo itself, I am wondering whether replacing the Floyd Rose with a better one will affect the sound? Will the tone of the guitar change much? Is it worth changing Floyd Rose for this purpose?
Hey! I think personally it doesn’t make that much sense changing it in that case. I’d rather buy tremolo stopper to fix the bridge if you don’t want to use it for tremolo (thats what I do by default). I’d change the bridge if you start having tuning problems like I did. As for the tone of guitar, we’ll, it would change a bit for sure, but hard to say how much really, it all depends on guitar and its individual. So my recommendation, buy tremolno and eventually brass block as upgrades if you wanna upgrade something. Cheers!
loads of effort and time went into this video. if one wants to give the special fr a second chance, regarding staying in tune and warble effect, replace the studs for ofr or schaller studs and possibly quality springs. I was pleasantly surprised when I did this to a licensed korean floyd. But what ever you do to make you play better and feel better about your tone, your perception is real for your brain even if it was a placebo effect. One has to reach a point when he or she feels the tone, otherwise buying better and more reliable gear wont make you feel the tone. As a general rule : 1) Upgrade only when you are ready, so you can appreciate the quality. 2) a good setup makes wonders to a cheep stuff. thanks for the share, cheers
Thanks a bunch! I agree with you on all said. Upgrade when ready and when you understand the upgrade and the need. My problem with Floyd Special was that saddles on bottom 2 strings were "eaten out" - so strings were coming out during bends etc, plus the studs were grinded as well. Overall, Schaller is a perfect upgrade for me, works amazing. Tone wise - not so much of a difference, feel wise, quite a big difference at least for me :) Cheers!
Hi Petar. According to Floyd Rose's site the only difference between the Floyd Rose Special and the Original Floyd Rose is the Floyd Rose Special uses zinc saddles and a zinc sustain block. The Floyd Rose Original uses steel saddles and a brass sustain block. The soft zinc saddles of the Floyd Rose Special are probably letting the strings slip and causing your tuning problems. Brass sustain blocks also weigh more than zinc and add more tone as well. Also, heavier sustain blocks give you the ability to make the bridge flutter by slapping the bar (Slayer, Alexi Laiho, and Andy LaRocque do this technique). My Jackson licensed zinc bridges do not flutter because their zinc sustain blocks do not weigh enough. They also do not stay in tune very well because the strings wear grooves in the zinc saddles and locking nut. Have you considered just replacing the saddles and sustain block on the Floyd Rose Special instead of buying a completely new bridge? This might be a cheaper and easier option. Perhaps you could try this in a new video? Thank you for your hard work on this video Petar. Aaron
The baseplate is zinc, too. Thus the knife edges get dull real fast and that's the biggest problem. Also, flutter has nothing to do with the sustain block, it's caused by the bridge swinging around the neutral position, quickly changing the pitch of the strings and making the springs resonate, it mostly depends on the thickness and tension of the individual springs (that's why I use 3 heavy springs, but with not much tension on them). Also it could be that your posts on knives are scratched up and your FR just doesn't move freely enough, that made flutters harder on my friend's 90s Rhoads EX with a crappy Takeuchi trem. Or you push/pull on the bar too gently.
@@Admiral_Bongo Thanks for your comment. Mine is a Takeuchi, aka a Jackson JT580LP. A Schaller non-Lockmeister trem is the closest fit. An OFR bridge will work in the route but a small gap will be left on the side and if you have to intonate the guitar a lot by moving the saddles back they may overhang the edge of the route and prevent you from doing pull ups. My understanding is the amount of tension is going to be determined by what keeps the guitar in playing pitch with the baseplate level. You can adjust this by the number of springs but whatever tension holds E in E with the baseplate even with the body is the amount of tension you have to use. Lower tuned guitars will have less tension and standard tuned guitars will require screwing the spring claw closer to the body. I prefer 3 springs in an arrow shape. I prefer the feel of the iron blocks as they weigh less and thus the action is smoother but I have not been able to get flutter without heavier brass blocks. I get a flutter effect by pulling up quickly on the tip of the bar and releasing, which causes the bar to warble, not by pulling/pushing. Cheaper trems also have less robust mechanisms where the bars fit into the baseplate, so that could also be an issue. Things like bigger blocks and exotic materials like stone and titanium in my experience produce diminishing returns due to cost and prevent the bridge from moving completely within a small spring cavity because the block is too large.
@@AAAA-lt9hq Lower tuned guitars have tension compensated with the gauge of the strings. And that's exactly what I meant when I was talking about flutter, I just didn't mention releasing cause it seemed obvious to me. On the side note, regular Schaller trem beats OFR/Lockmeister in every way. Same metal, compatible blocks, saddles, arm and most screws, but has some nice improvements.
@@Admiral_Bongo I tend to use lighter gauge strings in lower tunings. Generally for every step I tune down I go one gauge heavier in strings from 10. So, for E and D standard I might use 10, then Db and C get 11, B/Bb get 12, and then from there we get into 7 string territory. I use Ernie Ball and I don't think they make a 13 gauge set. This also depends upon things like if the fat string can make it through the capstan, scale length, etc. I'm not a big fan of new string materials or hybrid string sets since they are harder to find in stores on short notice. So I wouldn't want a 9.5 gauge string to break and not be able to find a replacement and have to buy a 9 or 10 set to get the proper string. I think string gauge does make some difference but not as much as a proper claw setting. Any issues should be overcome with a proper setup. For this reason I'm not a big fan of multi scale length, fanned frets, etc., although I'd love to try an equal tempered tuning like on the Mattias Eklundh models. If I'm using thicker strings I will probably set my action slightly higher to compensate, which may pull on the bridge more and change intonation. Very rarely have I had to adjust a truss rod unless a guitar was in storage for years or was treated badly.
Yes, true, I did mention that in the video. Schaller was the original maker of Floyd Rose (original), then they were making Lockmeister with the exact same design. Although - some people would argue quality of materials and precision is even better at Schaller. If I have some money to waste in the future, I'd buy original Floyd Rose and then compare Lockmeister with FR Original :)
I once contacted Schaller to ask them difference between the Original Floyd Rose and Schaller Lockmeister. According to them they increased the thickness of the baseplate on the Lockmeister by 1 mm so as to enhance sustain and reduce warble. So, theoretically Schaller Lockmeister should be even better and more stable than Original Floyd Rose. However, to be honest I have Schaller Lockmeister on one of my guitars, it feels the same as Original Floyd Rose to me.
Against all the odds I'm gonna say that the original Floyd has still the better materials, it even may come down to the percentage of carbon in the baseplate. I'm not ready (yet) to accept the price difference just because of the brand name ;)
Thanks man! Glad you liked it. Which Ibanez model do you have? Schaller are usually direct replacement for Floyd Rose, so if you have it in your guitar, then no problems :) If its lo pro edge or other ibanez tremolo, you might need to change posts, but other than that, easy install :)
@@PetarMakesNoise i have an RG350DX, I replaced the EDGE3 trem with Ibanez Floyd rose patented trem(which comes with the jem jrs).. so far the bridge is doing alright.. but i really love the schaller tone.
I did like the sound of the Schaller... on the open string notes, but when the Special had more sustain on the fretted note (C), well, I play many more fretted notes, and the difference between the notes was that the fretted one took the resonance and the "tone" influenced by the resonance of the entire guitar/neck length and the effect,if any, of the nut and tuner mass.
@Petar Makes Noise Hey Petar, how did you know which size of the Schaller Lockmeister would suit your guitar? I see they have Lockmeister 6 32mm,37mm, 40mm and so on ? Is the Floyd Rose Special the same size on every guitar so It is only one Lockmeister that fits ? I have a Jackson SDX that I want to switch the Floyd Special to a Lockmeister 6 but I do not know which size to go for.
Hey Mathias! Short answer - check the size on the tremolo block. Longer answer: basically the sizes are related to the size of the tremolo block (that you attach springs to at the back of the guitar). Easiest way to check which size of the block you have, is to look on it, usually it's ingraved with 32, 37 or 40. Most of the times it's 37 or 40, but really depends on the guitar. In my guitar FR Special had 37, and my Lockmeister came with 37 block, but afterwards I just bought 40 brass block, and it was able to fit into my guitar as well. (depends how thick your guitar body is really). Hope that solves it! Good luck!
@@PetarMakesNoise Thanks for quick respons, I guess the problem you can run into is if you are ordering a guitar with Floyd Rose special and want to order another trem for it at the same time. You always kinda need to have the guitar first and measure the trem before buying the replacement trem. Because it is hard to find that kind of detailed info online =( On the Lockmeister 6 on Schallers webshop you have to choose block size, Tremolo radius and Nut radius before ordering, so it is more than just measuring the block I guess. It would be nice to have those measurements on guitar tremolos online so you could just order them together :P
@@mathias6423 Yeah, I get it, well most guitars online have info about nut size, and body depth (sometimes they offer tremolo block size they use in it). But overall, if I were you, I'd buy it first, check everything, then order Schaller :) World ain't gonna fall apart if you wait a little bit longer, and you'd get used to FR Special sound, so that when you change it, you'll hear the immediate difference :D
@@PetarMakesNoise Hehe you are absolutely right man =) I get used to the Floyd Rose "special" quality as well and will be happy after the swap :P Thanks for the calming and great tips!
Pretty sure you could! If it's the same size as original FR block (just make sure to check exact block size), then it should be fine. I replaced in both my guitars with Schallers, and put original FR brass blocks. It def improves the sound even more.
Did you have any routing issues swapping bridges ? I have an MIJ Jackson that had a 1000 series which is the same dimensions as the special. I'm interested in the lockmeister as well
No routing issues at all, it was pretty much straight drop in. You don't even have to replace the posts studs, Schaller can go directly onto them, but ofc you can replace them with Schaller ones (it's a bit tricky to get them out of holes sometimes, you can try - but if it's hard, I'd leave it). Good luck :)
HI, I'm thinking of doing this exact mod to my Caparison C2 for basically the same reasons you mentioned at the beginning of the video. Did you have any issues with the changeover over at all? Did you use the original studs or change them for the schaller ones? Thanks for any help you can give. Great video btw and you've got a sub from me!
@@PetarMakesNoise Awesome! Thank you so much, been trying find this info for hours when i stumbled across your video as I'm having to import from Germany and didn't want to be stuck with a £200 Trem that wouldn't fit without any routing which i really didn't want to do! Literally checking out now XD
@@rafaelmadrid8259 I replaced it with Schaller Lockmeister.Its perfect fit exactly no swimming.Schaller is pricey but worth it..smooth well built and better sustain for sure.
Thank you for the great video bro. I have the same problem with popping out strings and a gao in tremolo arm...that makes me crazy. Is the arm on Schaller tight for fine vibrato and other floyd tricks that is what I wanna ask you. 🤘👊
Hi! As far as I’m aware, they should be almost identical, with few small differences. - Baseplate in Lockmeister is steel while Schaller Tremolo is not - Schaller Tremolo baseplate is slightly ticker - Schaller Tremolo is supposed to have blade edges replacable - Schaller Tremolo uses Ruthenium coating / finish which is supposed to be very resistant to wear (as resistant as chroming, but better looking) Other than that, dimensions etc should be pretty much the same. Some people say that due to steel plate Lockmeister sounds snappier and has more pick attack in notes. And Schaller Tremolo has a bit longer sustain due to ticker baseplate. But I haven’t tested difference, so take it with a grain of salt.
@@PetarMakesNoise thank you I’m looking to upgrade my Floyd rose special to either a schaller tremolo or the lockmeister but I’m having trouble deciding 🙏🏻
Good luck! I can tell you Lockmeister was no issue replacement at all, but for Schaller Tremolo I’d suggest looking at schematics to make sure its direct replacement. I think it should be, but I cannot be 100% sure. Even very small difference may affect stability, so make sure to investigate a bit deeper that path. Otherwise Lockmeister is easy and smooth upgrade :)
@@PetarMakesNoise The LM has the thicker base plate. Both trems use steel, but the LM uses hardened steel. I weighted the my old Schaller trem and it is also about 50 grams lighter than my LM. If you lack sustain, use a Floyd Stone Tone block and titanium saddles. Sustain for days.
Hi! I think it's not, as far as I remember correctly, LockMeister is a "new" and improved design, different enough from OFR to make it possible as a new product without a license. Schaller Tremolo (non-Lockmeister) is the one that's licenced OFR, but it still has differences from OFR (I have that one in another guitar, it's great as well)
Im gonna be honest not significant audio wise but if you feel is an "upgrade" its fine but honestly the price tag on it doesn't justify the small improvement, I would have gone for a Gotoh because the price is closer to the special, im gonna put a gotoh on my next 7 string, I love all FR because no other bridge gives me the comfort on my right hand.
I don't understand how Caparison could load FR Special on their guitars for the price they cost. At least they should install Gotoh 1996T to keep it fully made in Japan.
These Caparison C2 series were budget friendly model they tried to produce in Fujigen factory in Japan (where Ibanez Prestige are being made). They are high quality, but had to cut on some features to drop the price. Thus Floyd Special. They were being made for 1-2 years I think and discontinued. These C2 model cost around 1000-1200 new and were direct competition to Ibanez Prestige in terms of quality and sound. Imho they’re very much a great guitars. Caparison don’t make these anymore, just their regular models. So - Caparison was always making guitars in Japan, never they had production outside Japan. All their production models are having Schaller or Gotoh. I have Caparison TAT II as well and it has Schaller on it. Hope that helps :)
I appreciate the effort...Just got an old Fernandes with the Lock meister - sounds spectacular & you confirmed it with your method. Will you oPen your mouth wider when u talk so the words would be much clearer! Great vid!
Ah, Fernandes are amazing! Have fun with it :) Thanks for the feedback in regards of talking, yeah, it's a bit hard to talk straight into camera, but I've improved since this video a bit, so it got better! Hopefully haha :D Thanks again!
I still prefer the non-Lockmeister Schaller. It has a thicker baseplate, shorter locking screws with deeper routing, which don't have much risk of stripping, and most importantly, replaceable knives, that cost not much more than a pack of strings, so that when after 20-something years of abuse the originals kick the bucket, you don't have to buy a whole new bridge.
I got my 1st Schaller in 2005 and since it's the trem I use, but... it all depends on what we're looking for and preferences, both of these trem do the best job in their own ways. The only thing I wouldn't recommend is to use a Floyd original with ceramic pickups on a trans amp... I think it's obvious, this set up is just too sparky and aggressive. Great vid, even though I knew the differences, I just wanted to know how someone else could explain it, I would be a bad teacher lol
Agree absolutely with all said, thanks for watching the video and feedback :) In regards to having too sparky / spiky high end when the combo of FR original and ceramic pickups, I noticed the same thing with Schaller tremolo I have (non-Lockmeister). Even though I did notice a bit ticker low end, there was also a bit more high end as well, which is one of my guitars caused a bit too much upper mids to cut and push in amps (just combo of wood, bridge, and pickups made it too bright). I have added Brass 42 block in it instead of stock one, and it somewhat balanced the high-end out and added sustain. I'll be making a video and adding brass block into Schaller Lockmeister (on the very same guitar in this video), and compare the difference. I expect to get the same results, smoother high-end, and a bit more resonance / sustain.
You cut the sound of the C note sustain test off way too early. It was longer than 7 seconds. My findings were not due to poor quality listening gear. I used both my Beyer Dynamics T1g2 and my Ultrasone Signature studio. Ran both through my Fostex DAC. If I may make a suggestion. If you want to do a proper sustain test, use some overdrive and a compressor. It will keep the note clear for as long as the string is vibrating, and make it very easy to hear when it fully decays. Also use a db meter to make sure you pick the string evenly. You can vastly offset a sustain test by picking the string harder or softer. Not saying this because I have anything against the Schaller LM, I use a few of them and like them, just saying that you need to adjust your sustain test a bit, and make sure you don't cut it off too early.
Hey my friends! the fact is that you are comparing gold with cheap iron here's why: Schaller Lockmeister 6 is the quivalenf of the Floyd Rose Original NOT the FR speial, of course SCHALLER is better :) that is bassically an FR Original 100% the special is the crappiest one... of course that sound worte than the lockmaster ;) no more to say, the only difference are commercial agreements, for example here in urope doesnt not make sense buy floyd rose original... for our market is schaller... for US is Floyd Rose Original , the prices speak for themselves, in europe FRO comes with additional taxes... but it would cost the same as a schaller, same quality, equals... thats only about commergial agreement ... the is a same factory and factory process... the real differences are between the FR1000 ,FR original and special cheers....
Just upgrade the stock floyds brass block,much cheaper than buying a schaller.Not enough change to even bother really.Staying in tune is what you need.
Not really the same results. Brass block (which I added to all my Schallers btw) adds more harmonic content, longer sustain, a but rounder tone. But it doesn’t contribute to tuning stability that much (at least not to my knowledge of how tremolo systems work). If you want better tuning stability, you need better knives, better saddles, and at that point, you’re already getting a new tremolo. I’m open to seeing if brass block fixes tuning issues, but my problems with tuning came from saddles, and not block.
I had an LTD with a Floyd 1000 and I put an Original in it. The difference was literally night and day. 1000 won in my book. Just kidding....Original by a mile. I also put an EMG 81X in it instead of it's original 81. Also night and day. 81X easily won.
Haha, good one :D That 81x is intriguing me a lot to try out. I never liked EMG 81 - but I've heard some demos, and I'm really impressed by X version. Not sure why, as I am more of a passive pickups guy. Might be good to try out in one of my project guitars I plan to mess with.
@@PetarMakesNoise 81x has this quality to it that is hard to describe. Clarity is the best word I can think of to describe it. Single notes seem a little more punchy as well.
The FR 1000 while made in Korea, is made to the same tolerances and from the same materials as the OFR. It also cost the same. Whether you like the lower profile or not, well that's your choice. But quality wise, they are about the same. Have had both and the FR 1000 is nothing like the poor quality licensed FR's.
Nope, this guitar was built back in 2012, and only for a year or so, in Fujigen plant (where Ibanez Prestige models are made), it was an attempt to make a more affordable model. Its production didn’t last long, they weren’t selling that great; so now you can find them only used for around $800-1000. They sound and play amazing, I have also way more expensive and rare Caparison, and C2 plays almost on point with it. Standard Caparison models all come with Schallers, not Floyd Rose Special.
True! But price of Schaller is way cheaper upgrade than FR original. Ofc you can upgrade to FR OR, but imho you get same quality and better bang for your money by buying Schaller.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Timestamps for jumping around :) :
00:00 - Intro
00:25 - Reason for upgrading to Schaller Lockmeister
01:49 - Testing Process Explained
03:01 - Personal Assumption
03:27 - Chord A / B Tone Tests
04:09 - Single Notes A / B Tone Tests
05:07 - Sustain Notes Tests
06:46 - Personal Analysis of the results
08:37 - Personal Feel of the upgraded guitar
10:03 - Tuning stability upgrade info
10:32 - Outro
What is the size of the block in schaller lockmeister
@@MusicTutorJay just checked, it's 42.
The sound difference is bigger than I expected ! Such a quality vid man!!
And points for the fallujah shirt.
Thanks, you convinced me to change my special with a lockmeister.
Paul Reed Smith himself said that everything on a guitar affects the tone. It's why PRS guitars are made with such high attention to detail. It's so that one shonky part or setup doesn't ruin the tone of all the other high-end parts and setup. A guitar is the sum of its parts and setup and that sum is a complex interaction rather than just an additive process.
Great video.
Luv and Peace.
paul reed smith is also a guy selling 7000 bucks guitars, so that's not very surprising he would say that...
@@givemeajackson He also sell guitars for 600 bucks that sounds amazing. The non locking tremolo system on one of those 600 bucks guitars held the tuning better than my old Floyd Rose Special double locking which says a lot
@@mathias6423 suspiciously his 600 bucks guitars that aren't infused with voodoo, pastriotism and toanwood still sound good... wonder how that works...
i wonder if guitarists will ever be able to accept that it's ok to want a guitar cause it looks nice and is well put together without having to justify their purchase with "my organic woody breathing toan" snakeoil esoterics.
I just bought a Dellinger and it came standard with the new German Schaller. Amazing guitar and the trem holds tune perfectly, even a after abuse
Dude, that's what I call a nice video!
The difference you hear and feel will be caused by the way the arm is attached to it and the spring block material. Some are made of metal and some of some sort of alloy. As looser and wiggling the arm is attached, you will dissipate the vibration energy and your sustain will occur. if you have steel spring block your sustain will increase (Floyd Rose special has not the steel block so you may experience a short sustain and heavy dissipating of vibrating energy a the bridge. with steel block you'll have the fuller tonal frequency ringing and more sustain. With brass, little more high frequency and more sustain. With alloy ( cheap as floyd special and other licensed) you have a lack of highs and lows; also a lack of sustain. Sustain will be heavily noticed at the way the trem arm is attached + the sustain block's material.
That's why you and mostly every one prefers steel/brass. Futone and Manara build these blocks. Since Floyd and Schaller are using the same hard steel for their plates, you can buy just the sustain block to increase quality, and you will be blown away by the increasing changes. About Schaller I DO PREFER the model non-lockmeister 'cause when the knife edges are worn, I can Just replace the little knife edges and not the whole base plate. Yet about the the arm issue. The floyd's attach-in system is the most tight you'll get. This will provide even more sensibility and increase the sustain to the full sustain you'll ever get on a floyd system. I changed the arm for this attach-in system and now the fluttering effect is almost infinite. The perfect inertia was achieved.
Great video,i ordered one for mounting it on a LTD mh103
Hello, I have an American Charvel guitar, there is a Korean Floyd Rose, the tremolo is practically on the body of the guitar, I practically do not use the thermolo itself, I am wondering whether replacing the Floyd Rose with a better one will affect the sound? Will the tone of the guitar change much? Is it worth changing Floyd Rose for this purpose?
Hey! I think personally it doesn’t make that much sense changing it in that case. I’d rather buy tremolo stopper to fix the bridge if you don’t want to use it for tremolo (thats what I do by default). I’d change the bridge if you start having tuning problems like I did. As for the tone of guitar, we’ll, it would change a bit for sure, but hard to say how much really, it all depends on guitar and its individual. So my recommendation, buy tremolno and eventually brass block as upgrades if you wanna upgrade something.
Cheers!
loads of effort and time went into this video. if one wants to give the special fr a second chance, regarding staying in tune and warble effect, replace the studs for ofr or schaller studs and possibly quality springs. I was pleasantly surprised when I did this to a licensed korean floyd. But what ever you do to make you play better and feel better about your tone, your perception is real for your brain even if it was a placebo effect. One has to reach a point when he or she feels the tone, otherwise buying better and more reliable gear wont make you feel the tone. As a general rule : 1) Upgrade only when you are ready, so you can appreciate the quality. 2) a good setup makes wonders to a cheep stuff. thanks for the share, cheers
Thanks a bunch! I agree with you on all said. Upgrade when ready and when you understand the upgrade and the need. My problem with Floyd Special was that saddles on bottom 2 strings were "eaten out" - so strings were coming out during bends etc, plus the studs were grinded as well. Overall, Schaller is a perfect upgrade for me, works amazing. Tone wise - not so much of a difference, feel wise, quite a big difference at least for me :) Cheers!
Hi Petar. According to Floyd Rose's site the only difference between the Floyd Rose Special and the Original Floyd Rose is the Floyd Rose Special uses zinc saddles and a zinc sustain block. The Floyd Rose Original uses steel saddles and a brass sustain block.
The soft zinc saddles of the Floyd Rose Special are probably letting the strings slip and causing your tuning problems. Brass sustain blocks also weigh more than zinc and add more tone as well.
Also, heavier sustain blocks give you the ability to make the bridge flutter by slapping the bar (Slayer, Alexi Laiho, and Andy LaRocque do this technique).
My Jackson licensed zinc bridges do not flutter because their zinc sustain blocks do not weigh enough. They also do not stay in tune very well because the strings wear grooves in the zinc saddles and locking nut.
Have you considered just replacing the saddles and sustain block on the Floyd Rose Special instead of buying a completely new bridge? This might be a cheaper and easier option. Perhaps you could try this in a new video?
Thank you for your hard work on this video Petar.
Aaron
Exactly what I did. Replaced a saddles, block and arm and now it is a bomb 🤘 all cost less tahan 100 euro.
The baseplate is zinc, too. Thus the knife edges get dull real fast and that's the biggest problem. Also, flutter has nothing to do with the sustain block, it's caused by the bridge swinging around the neutral position, quickly changing the pitch of the strings and making the springs resonate, it mostly depends on the thickness and tension of the individual springs (that's why I use 3 heavy springs, but with not much tension on them). Also it could be that your posts on knives are scratched up and your FR just doesn't move freely enough, that made flutters harder on my friend's 90s Rhoads EX with a crappy Takeuchi trem. Or you push/pull on the bar too gently.
@@Admiral_Bongo Thanks for your comment. Mine is a Takeuchi, aka a Jackson JT580LP. A Schaller non-Lockmeister trem is the closest fit. An OFR bridge will work in the route but a small gap will be left on the side and if you have to intonate the guitar a lot by moving the saddles back they may overhang the edge of the route and prevent you from doing pull ups.
My understanding is the amount of tension is going to be determined by what keeps the guitar in playing pitch with the baseplate level. You can adjust this by the number of springs but whatever tension holds E in E with the baseplate even with the body is the amount of tension you have to use. Lower tuned guitars will have less tension and standard tuned guitars will require screwing the spring claw closer to the body.
I prefer 3 springs in an arrow shape. I prefer the feel of the iron blocks as they weigh less and thus the action is smoother but I have not been able to get flutter without heavier brass blocks.
I get a flutter effect by pulling up quickly on the tip of the bar and releasing, which causes the bar to warble, not by pulling/pushing. Cheaper trems also have less robust mechanisms where the bars fit into the baseplate, so that could also be an issue.
Things like bigger blocks and exotic materials like stone and titanium in my experience produce diminishing returns due to cost and prevent the bridge from moving completely within a small spring cavity because the block is too large.
@@AAAA-lt9hq Lower tuned guitars have tension compensated with the gauge of the strings. And that's exactly what I meant when I was talking about flutter, I just didn't mention releasing cause it seemed obvious to me. On the side note, regular Schaller trem beats OFR/Lockmeister in every way. Same metal, compatible blocks, saddles, arm and most screws, but has some nice improvements.
@@Admiral_Bongo I tend to use lighter gauge strings in lower tunings. Generally for every step I tune down I go one gauge heavier in strings from 10. So, for E and D standard I might use 10, then Db and C get 11, B/Bb get 12, and then from there we get into 7 string territory. I use Ernie Ball and I don't think they make a 13 gauge set.
This also depends upon things like if the fat string can make it through the capstan, scale length, etc.
I'm not a big fan of new string materials or hybrid string sets since they are harder to find in stores on short notice. So I wouldn't want a 9.5 gauge string to break and not be able to find a replacement and have to buy a 9 or 10 set to get the proper string.
I think string gauge does make some difference but not as much as a proper claw setting. Any issues should be overcome with a proper setup. For this reason I'm not a big fan of multi scale length, fanned frets, etc., although I'd love to try an equal tempered tuning like on the Mattias Eklundh models.
If I'm using thicker strings I will probably set my action slightly higher to compensate, which may pull on the bridge more and change intonation.
Very rarely have I had to adjust a truss rod unless a guitar was in storage for years or was treated badly.
The Lockmeister is the original flyod rose with schaller's stamp on it. Same thing and cheaper
Yes, true, I did mention that in the video. Schaller was the original maker of Floyd Rose (original), then they were making Lockmeister with the exact same design. Although - some people would argue quality of materials and precision is even better at Schaller. If I have some money to waste in the future, I'd buy original Floyd Rose and then compare Lockmeister with FR Original :)
@@PetarMakesNoise I have both the OFR and the Lockmeister.Same thing exactly
@@GuitarLordGR Good to know! :) Cheaper but same quality - sounds like no brainer.
I once contacted Schaller to ask them difference between the Original Floyd Rose and Schaller Lockmeister.
According to them they increased the thickness of the baseplate on the Lockmeister by 1 mm so as to enhance sustain and reduce warble.
So, theoretically Schaller Lockmeister should be even better and more stable than Original Floyd Rose. However, to be honest I have Schaller Lockmeister on one of my guitars, it feels the same as Original Floyd Rose to me.
Against all the odds I'm gonna say that the original Floyd has still the better materials, it even may come down to the percentage of carbon in the baseplate. I'm not ready (yet) to accept the price difference just because of the brand name ;)
Hey man! Great video.. im thinking of getting a schaller on my ibanez ❤️
Thanks man! Glad you liked it. Which Ibanez model do you have? Schaller are usually direct replacement for Floyd Rose, so if you have it in your guitar, then no problems :) If its lo pro edge or other ibanez tremolo, you might need to change posts, but other than that, easy install :)
@@PetarMakesNoise i have an RG350DX, I replaced the EDGE3 trem with Ibanez Floyd rose patented trem(which comes with the jem jrs).. so far the bridge is doing alright.. but i really love the schaller tone.
t's a great movie and it gives me a lot, I'll say more, I keep coming back to it
I did like the sound of the Schaller... on the open string notes, but when the Special had more sustain on the fretted note (C), well, I play many more fretted notes, and the difference between the notes was that the fretted one took the resonance and the "tone" influenced by the resonance of the entire guitar/neck length and the effect,if any, of the nut and tuner mass.
is the schaller a drop in replacement for the FR special in terms of stud spacing and cavity?
Yep, direct replacement - no adjustments needed or anything, fits nicely.
Schaller sounded louder with the chords. But the Floyd sounded louder on single notes.
I’m looking to do this exact swap. Is the Schaller pretty similar with string spacing and layout?
@Petar Makes Noise Hey Petar, how did you know which size of the Schaller Lockmeister would suit your guitar? I see they have Lockmeister 6 32mm,37mm, 40mm and so on ? Is the Floyd Rose Special the same size on every guitar so It is only one Lockmeister that fits ? I have a Jackson SDX that I want to switch the Floyd Special to a Lockmeister 6 but I do not know which size to go for.
Hey Mathias! Short answer - check the size on the tremolo block. Longer answer: basically the sizes are related to the size of the tremolo block (that you attach springs to at the back of the guitar). Easiest way to check which size of the block you have, is to look on it, usually it's ingraved with 32, 37 or 40. Most of the times it's 37 or 40, but really depends on the guitar. In my guitar FR Special had 37, and my Lockmeister came with 37 block, but afterwards I just bought 40 brass block, and it was able to fit into my guitar as well. (depends how thick your guitar body is really).
Hope that solves it! Good luck!
@@PetarMakesNoise Thanks for quick respons, I guess the problem you can run into is if you are ordering a guitar with Floyd Rose special and want to order another trem for it at the same time.
You always kinda need to have the guitar first and measure the trem before buying the replacement trem. Because it is hard to find that kind of detailed info online =(
On the Lockmeister 6 on Schallers webshop you have to choose block size, Tremolo radius and Nut radius before ordering, so it is more than just measuring the block I guess. It would be nice to have those measurements on guitar tremolos online so you could just order them together :P
@@mathias6423 Yeah, I get it, well most guitars online have info about nut size, and body depth (sometimes they offer tremolo block size they use in it). But overall, if I were you, I'd buy it first, check everything, then order Schaller :) World ain't gonna fall apart if you wait a little bit longer, and you'd get used to FR Special sound, so that when you change it, you'll hear the immediate difference :D
@@PetarMakesNoise Hehe you are absolutely right man =) I get used to the Floyd Rose "special" quality as well and will be happy after the swap :P
Thanks for the calming and great tips!
Has the Schaller got a brass block?
Nope, not out of the box, it's Zinc I think. I bought brass block though for both my Schallers, adds a bit more on sustain imho.
@@PetarMakesNoise Ok thanks.
So I could change the block and it would fit the shaller ? Like FU big block .
Pretty sure you could! If it's the same size as original FR block (just make sure to check exact block size), then it should be fine. I replaced in both my guitars with Schallers, and put original FR brass blocks. It def improves the sound even more.
Did you have any routing issues swapping bridges ? I have an MIJ Jackson that had a 1000 series which is the same dimensions as the special. I'm interested in the lockmeister as well
No routing issues at all, it was pretty much straight drop in. You don't even have to replace the posts studs, Schaller can go directly onto them, but ofc you can replace them with Schaller ones (it's a bit tricky to get them out of holes sometimes, you can try - but if it's hard, I'd leave it). Good luck :)
HI, I'm thinking of doing this exact mod to my Caparison C2 for basically the same reasons you mentioned at the beginning of the video. Did you have any issues with the changeover over at all? Did you use the original studs or change them for the schaller ones? Thanks for any help you can give. Great video btw and you've got a sub from me!
Another Capa fan here
@@PetarMakesNoise Awesome! Thank you so much, been trying find this info for hours when i stumbled across your video as I'm having to import from Germany and didn't want to be stuck with a £200 Trem that wouldn't fit without any routing which i really didn't want to do! Literally checking out now XD
Great video and very comprehensive.I' m making this change on my Jackson Warrior.The Special on it is a failure for sure.
Hi. I'm planning to do the same. Have a warrior wrmg and I'm looking for another floyd rose system. How was your experience? Thanks in advanced.
@@rafaelmadrid8259 I replaced it with Schaller Lockmeister.Its perfect fit exactly no swimming.Schaller is pricey but worth it..smooth well built and better sustain for sure.
Thank you for the great video bro. I have the same problem with popping out strings and a gao in tremolo arm...that makes me crazy. Is the arm on Schaller tight for fine vibrato and other floyd tricks that is what I wanna ask you. 🤘👊
Hey I was wondering if you can give me feedback on the difference between Schaller Tremolo and Lockmeister 6?
Hi! As far as I’m aware, they should be almost identical, with few small differences.
- Baseplate in Lockmeister is steel while Schaller Tremolo is not
- Schaller Tremolo baseplate is slightly ticker
- Schaller Tremolo is supposed to have blade edges replacable
- Schaller Tremolo uses Ruthenium coating / finish which is supposed to be very resistant to wear (as resistant as chroming, but better looking)
Other than that, dimensions etc should be pretty much the same. Some people say that due to steel plate Lockmeister sounds snappier and has more pick attack in notes. And Schaller Tremolo has a bit longer sustain due to ticker baseplate. But I haven’t tested difference, so take it with a grain of salt.
@@PetarMakesNoise thank you I’m looking to upgrade my Floyd rose special to either a schaller tremolo or the lockmeister but I’m having trouble deciding 🙏🏻
Good luck! I can tell you Lockmeister was no issue replacement at all, but for Schaller Tremolo I’d suggest looking at schematics to make sure its direct replacement. I think it should be, but I cannot be 100% sure. Even very small difference may affect stability, so make sure to investigate a bit deeper that path. Otherwise Lockmeister is easy and smooth upgrade :)
@@PetarMakesNoise The LM has the thicker base plate. Both trems use steel, but the LM uses hardened steel.
I weighted the my old Schaller trem and it is also about 50 grams lighter than my LM.
If you lack sustain, use a Floyd Stone Tone block and titanium saddles. Sustain for days.
Hey, Petar. Is Schaller Lockmeister under Floyd Rose licensed?
Hi! I think it's not, as far as I remember correctly, LockMeister is a "new" and improved design, different enough from OFR to make it possible as a new product without a license. Schaller Tremolo (non-Lockmeister) is the one that's licenced OFR, but it still has differences from OFR (I have that one in another guitar, it's great as well)
Nice!!!
Im gonna be honest not significant audio wise but if you feel is an "upgrade" its fine but honestly the price tag on it doesn't justify the small improvement, I would have gone for a Gotoh because the price is closer to the special, im gonna put a gotoh on my next 7 string, I love all FR because no other bridge gives me the comfort on my right hand.
I don't understand how Caparison could load FR Special on their guitars for the price they cost. At least they should install Gotoh 1996T to keep it fully made in Japan.
These Caparison C2 series were budget friendly model they tried to produce in Fujigen factory in Japan (where Ibanez Prestige are being made). They are high quality, but had to cut on some features to drop the price. Thus Floyd Special. They were being made for 1-2 years I think and discontinued. These C2 model cost around 1000-1200 new and were direct competition to Ibanez Prestige in terms of quality and sound. Imho they’re very much a great guitars. Caparison don’t make these anymore, just their regular models. So - Caparison was always making guitars in Japan, never they had production outside Japan. All their production models are having Schaller or Gotoh. I have Caparison TAT II as well and it has Schaller on it. Hope that helps :)
@@PetarMakesNoise I tried a Caparison from 2007 and it was a great guitar sounded great ;)
Thanks man
Good video thanks , random question are you Serbian ?
Yes, I am :)
I appreciate the effort...Just got an old Fernandes with the Lock meister - sounds spectacular & you confirmed it with your method. Will you oPen your mouth wider when u talk so the words would be much clearer! Great vid!
Ah, Fernandes are amazing! Have fun with it :) Thanks for the feedback in regards of talking, yeah, it's a bit hard to talk straight into camera, but I've improved since this video a bit, so it got better! Hopefully haha :D Thanks again!
I still prefer the non-Lockmeister Schaller. It has a thicker baseplate, shorter locking screws with deeper routing, which don't have much risk of stripping, and most importantly, replaceable knives, that cost not much more than a pack of strings, so that when after 20-something years of abuse the originals kick the bucket, you don't have to buy a whole new bridge.
I got my 1st Schaller in 2005 and since it's the trem I use, but... it all depends on what we're looking for and preferences, both of these trem do the best job in their own ways. The only thing I wouldn't recommend is to use a Floyd original with ceramic pickups on a trans amp... I think it's obvious, this set up is just too sparky and aggressive.
Great vid, even though I knew the differences, I just wanted to know how someone else could explain it, I would be a bad teacher lol
Agree absolutely with all said, thanks for watching the video and feedback :) In regards to having too sparky / spiky high end when the combo of FR original and ceramic pickups, I noticed the same thing with Schaller tremolo I have (non-Lockmeister). Even though I did notice a bit ticker low end, there was also a bit more high end as well, which is one of my guitars caused a bit too much upper mids to cut and push in amps (just combo of wood, bridge, and pickups made it too bright). I have added Brass 42 block in it instead of stock one, and it somewhat balanced the high-end out and added sustain. I'll be making a video and adding brass block into Schaller Lockmeister (on the very same guitar in this video), and compare the difference. I expect to get the same results, smoother high-end, and a bit more resonance / sustain.
Sometimes you need sparky and aggressive. An X2N into a solid state hi gainer is a proven combination for death metal.
Which is better Original floyd rose or Schaller Lockmeister?
Schaller was making original Floyd Rose so the quality is equal, but Schaller is almost 2 times cheaper in price ;)
You cut the sound of the C note sustain test off way too early. It was longer than 7 seconds.
My findings were not due to poor quality listening gear. I used both my Beyer Dynamics T1g2 and my Ultrasone Signature studio. Ran both through my Fostex DAC.
If I may make a suggestion. If you want to do a proper sustain test, use some overdrive and a compressor. It will keep the note clear for as long as the string is vibrating, and make it very easy to hear when it fully decays. Also use a db meter to make sure you pick the string evenly. You can vastly offset a sustain test by picking the string harder or softer.
Not saying this because I have anything against the Schaller LM, I use a few of them and like them, just saying that you need to adjust your sustain test a bit, and make sure you don't cut it off too early.
Hey my friends! the fact is that you are comparing gold with cheap iron here's why: Schaller Lockmeister 6 is the quivalenf of the Floyd Rose Original NOT the FR speial, of course SCHALLER is better :) that is bassically an FR Original 100%
the special is the crappiest one... of course that sound worte than the lockmaster ;) no more to say, the only difference are commercial agreements, for example here in urope doesnt not make sense buy floyd rose original... for our market is schaller... for US is Floyd Rose Original , the prices speak for themselves, in europe FRO comes with additional taxes... but it would cost the same as a schaller, same quality, equals... thats only about commergial agreement ... the is a same factory and factory process... the real differences are between the FR1000 ,FR original and special cheers....
Just upgrade the stock floyds brass block,much cheaper than buying a schaller.Not enough change to even bother really.Staying in tune is what you need.
Not really the same results. Brass block (which I added to all my Schallers btw) adds more harmonic content, longer sustain, a but rounder tone. But it doesn’t contribute to tuning stability that much (at least not to my knowledge of how tremolo systems work). If you want better tuning stability, you need better knives, better saddles, and at that point, you’re already getting a new tremolo. I’m open to seeing if brass block fixes tuning issues, but my problems with tuning came from saddles, and not block.
If the guitar rings for 10 seconds only, better to change the guitar than the bridge
I had an LTD with a Floyd 1000 and I put an Original in it. The difference was literally night and day. 1000 won in my book.
Just kidding....Original by a mile. I also put an EMG 81X in it instead of it's original 81. Also night and day. 81X easily won.
Haha, good one :D That 81x is intriguing me a lot to try out. I never liked EMG 81 - but I've heard some demos, and I'm really impressed by X version. Not sure why, as I am more of a passive pickups guy. Might be good to try out in one of my project guitars I plan to mess with.
@@PetarMakesNoise 81x has this quality to it that is hard to describe. Clarity is the best word I can think of to describe it. Single notes seem a little more punchy as well.
The FR 1000 while made in Korea, is made to the same tolerances and from the same materials as the OFR. It also cost the same. Whether you like the lower profile or not, well that's your choice. But quality wise, they are about the same. Have had both and the FR 1000 is nothing like the poor quality licensed FR's.
@@AvnerRosenstein-ULTRA-LXV But hey, if you throw an EMG 81X in it, what does it matter? That pickup kills all chance of getting a nice tone.
@@AB-80X what do you mean? You've played the 81x? I agree that the 1000 isn't bad but I'm sorry but it's nothing compared to original.
jesi naš?
valjda se cuje po sjebanom engleskom :) jesam, iz Srbije ali zivim u Minhenu
@@PetarMakesNoise po akcentu sam i skontao xaxaxaxaxax
You've got to be kidding me... a $3,000 Caparison guitar came with a Floyd Rose Special?! WTF, is Caparison making mid-level budget guitars now?!
Nope, this guitar was built back in 2012, and only for a year or so, in Fujigen plant (where Ibanez Prestige models are made), it was an attempt to make a more affordable model. Its production didn’t last long, they weren’t selling that great; so now you can find them only used for around $800-1000. They sound and play amazing, I have also way more expensive and rare Caparison, and C2 plays almost on point with it. Standard Caparison models all come with Schallers, not Floyd Rose Special.
@@PetarMakesNoise Yeah, I've seen the Schaller Floyd Rose with the barrel screws on the Caparisons... I've got one on my '91 ESP M-ll Deluxe.
B is a lot darker
🌟 🤘🏻
SCHALLER
It's not a real good comparison, the Floyd Rose special is a budget model Floyd Rose.
True! But price of Schaller is way cheaper upgrade than FR original. Ofc you can upgrade to FR OR, but imho you get same quality and better bang for your money by buying Schaller.
Tune the guitar!