Kahler: The Worlds Most Hated Tremolo
Вставка
- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Kahler Trems are both loved and hated.
Todays video should hopefully explain why people have such varied opinions when it comes to this type of bridge.
Which do you prefer? Floyd Rose or Kahler ?
Social Media
/ kdhguitartv
/ kdhguitartv
/ kdhguitartv
Subscribe to support the channel
when you paused after saying "it can cause your solos to just become . . ." I audibly said, "Say it. Say Kerry King."
". . .Kerry King solos."
Heheh me too!!
yes😂😂
Glad I wasn't the only one! :p
Wait kerry king does solos, well slap me with a salmon.
HAHAHA!
You forgot to mention that they are the only brand that makes tremolo bridges for basses
Wait, so us bassists can get a bridge with a tremolo?! I'M SOLD!
Ritter makes bass tremolos
@@tzctlpc Hmm, well, I got one more brand to consider!
So does Hipshot
I allready have problems with playing bass like a guitar, and now this....
I have used Kahlers since the 80's and love them! They are extremly versitile and have tones of adjustments to fit your guitar. They require minimal routing - no cavities through your guitar - and you don't have to cut off the end of your strings, simply drop them into the saddles. You simply need to understand how to adjust and maintain them. This is where people get messed up as most don't take the time to learn all of the adjustments and maintanence procedures. There is a 3 part video from Kahler on UA-cam that will help you learn all you need to know.
Similar to the Gibson Robot Tuners, to be honest. They worked great if people took the 15 minutes to read the manual, but too many were too lazy to do so.
@daronbrown8076that's so strange as I find my Kahler to have more sustain actually. Wonder if that's a difference in block/saddles
@@DRock1779the ones I used back in the day never stayed in tune for long. A Hamer V I had, liked to break strings during gigs and the guitars they were in seemed to be heavy boat anchors too so I have up on them. I had most success with the early Ibanez edge. Stayed in tune for a whole gig under extreme abuse. Later models never seemed as good though the new reissues on the Genesis models seem pretty good.
Agree, I use a kahler 2200 pro model installed on a Gibson les Paul studio, and I honestly prefer it to the Floyd on my prs custom 24. Another thing often overlooked is the kahler can be adjusted to match the guitar’s radius..the Floyd cannot. Sure, it costs more(I paid around $450 or so for the pro bridge & necessary accessories), but the system really is solid.
About the nut: this is exactly why Jerry Cantrell uses a Kahler with a Floyd nut. Might need to look into trying one now. Great video dude!
Yep same with the guys from Slayer since the early 90's.
@@higler. same as this guy in the video
Chuck the locking nutz. This is the next millennium. We use locking tuners these days... still a locking point, so still a 2 point locking trem.
@@michaelcarey9359 if you're happy with that, have at it. No comparison though to a locking nut in terms of tuning stability.
@@michaelcarey9359 not quite. Thats more equivalent to a behind the nut clamp.
So you're saying it's like a Floyd Rose, except it fixes literally everything I dislike about Floyd Roses? I would definitely try one out, then
They are good. Better than a Floyd.
Damn this thing really does seem to fix all floyd rose issues. Can't believe they aren't more popular
Try one, you'll like it.
It's not like a Floyd Rose. It's like a high-precision version of a Jazzmaster vibrato with micro tunning.
I have these and they’re the best
I love my Kahler equipped guitars! I’ve even converted a hard tail guitar to a Kahler. They’re just so solid!
I like how they add a little more low end to the sounds as well. I love these trems.
Keeps more wood around the bridge and creates better tone. Love Kahler.
@@PickettMusic that, and even when I'm not actually using the bar, I love my Kahler because it's just not in the way, and the fine-tuners are easy to use quickly. Floyds have always felt awkward as hell to me.
If you want to put one on a Gibson style guitar, they're also a lot easier to install with much less routing. The correct models are designed to go right where the original bridge posts were to begin with. With a Floyd you have a lot more work to do to put it on a Les Paul, Explorer, SG, etc.
Gibson made a number of guitars with factory-installed Kahlers in the 80s; that's how I got turned onto them in the first place. Mine is an '84 Explorer that I bought used in '89 or '90, and I still have it after all these years.
@@dogslobbergardens6606 Agreed all around.
I wonder if it's possible to convert from a Floyd Rose to a Kahler?
What you forgot to mention is, like most technology, it's the porn industry that decides if something fails or succeeds. Happened to VHS over betamax, Bluray over HD DVD. The porn industry just preferred the Floyd Rose.
😂😂😂
Thats why it called "Rose" huh?
@Fly Society tropic thunder
It must be because of the full body penetration of the Floyd. Kahlers don't go nearly as deep.
@Fly Society This is just a cliche joke. I had someone tell me that the porn industry jumps on technology before any other industry. "They're using it before anyone else is using it". So no one realizes it but when told about it its true, the porn industry is already involved in it. They were already doing the internet back in 1998. They try their hands at anything technology to keep the financial gain. Like, who watches porn in 4K? But its out there, crystal clear porn. 6K is out there too, but only one hollywood movie has used it so far. But the first thing that came to my mind is, 'wonder when we start seeing porn advert "now in 6K" before any other hollywood movies start doing it'. I trolled this comment because i new what Tom was exactly talking about.
Goddammit I was not expecting this Tropic Thunder reference
Not the video we wanted, but the one we needed
And the one the company needed.
Floyds are for the Men.
Kahlers are for the other 63 genders.
Sorry, MAN UP.
@@b.scottfarthingsworth AGREEEEEED
@@b.scottfarthingsworth okay wrongface
@@b.scottfarthingsworth um.... there are infinite genders you bigot.
Jerry Cantrell's use of Kahler trems made me want to try them out. These days, I usually prefer fixed bridge guitars, and my favorite trem system is the Bigsby!
They look cool, but they are horrible.
Go with Bigsby B7 USA Tailpiece or Floyd Rose FRX. Those are two rock solid bridges :)
@@daleyoung87
Neil Young would like to have a word with you.
@@daleyoung87 no definitively wrong, user error not the bridge. You crack me up 😆
@@JonsterTheBondster the FRX... the only other bridge to prove that Kahler was correct all along but priced even higher.
Drinking game: take a shot every time the subtitles spell 'Kahler' a different way.
My dude this true we tried 🤘🏿🤘🏿🤘🏿
@@TheVengeanceofdefile ☠️☠️☠️
Kahler
Killer
Kaler
Khaler
Kalir
bruh i wont finsh all
Drinking sucks smoke a bong bowl every time and be nice and toasty instead
“Ga-tar noowt”
There’s no one you can trust more than a European with long hair when it comes to guitars
He’s Irish...
@@carlgustavjung1654 And I ask you this, which continent is Ireland located in?
@@carlgustavjung1654 ireland is not a part of europe?
@@carlgustavjung1654 Ireland is part of the EU
@@ArpeggioPegasusMusic and famously, geographically, in Europe
I had a Kahler Pro in the 80's and it was my favorite trem I have ever had! Looking for one now, that's how I found your video. Great job!
Thanks for the great information! I just bought a guitar with a Kahler. The string info in particular was really helpful.
Does it stay in tune well?
@@floopusdoopus replace the kahler nut with a floyd one and it’ll stay in tune forever lol
you should start making guitar pickups
@@connordrysdale5333
A well cut Graphtech nut and locking tuners works fine for me, even with the less than perfect string angle of the Jackson/Charvel headstock.
@@floopusdoopus use elixir strings or any high end strings..GHS and ernie ball wont cut it
This is your first video I've ever seen, and I gotta say, the stark contrast between that face melting solo at the start and your kind, soft-spoken voice was amazing. I love it lmao
That's the case with metal guys for the most part, nicest people in the world!
Ha me too went from orc to elf
reminds me of my sisters boyfriend evan. he's really good at guitar and loves his floyd (doesnt over use it though, only uses it when needs to) but he is a very nice guy, most metalheads are like that, or they have big arms and large beards and big fighters.
When I played allot of shows, I didn't have a guitar tech. For me, the Kahler was way better then the FR.. Faster string changing, and break in was as good as a fixed bridge.. I put fresh strings on before almost every show. I never had a problem with it staying in tune, and going to drop D during the set was a breeze. It was great for me.
I have a khaler in my markline, the fact that you can lock the bridge really helps when changing strings
I have a khaler in my 80's koa wood bc rich.... wouldn't trade it for the world...ur right though, if it was on a non professional axe, story would be different
Good tip, I just change each string and roughly tune until all six are switched over to keep it balanced.
Changing on any trem system is super easy to tune if you just do one string at a time. The thing that can really suck is when you break a string while on stage. Better have another guitar ready to go. No one wants to wait for you to pull out your little wrench and not loose that impossibly small little impossibly dark black cube....... Floyd players, you know what I'm talking about
My high school guitar teacher (in the late 80s) won a nationwide competition sponsored by Kahler for playing with a whammy bar - they ended up putting a thin plastic record with the track into Guitar Player magazine, and if memory serves it was judged by Steve Vai and Steve Morse. Not surprisingly, he actually played it on a Floyd Rose.
That’s the funniest shit I’ve read all night lol
name?
Noice
😂😂😂 nice one, you got me.
@@rickdeckard1075 Jeff Loven.
This video IMMEDIATELY made me sprint over to eBay only to find that they’re ludicrously expensive. :(
They are not really more expensive than proper Floyds. Just way better. Don't compare to soft steel copies.
@@poulwinther
True but the Gotoh GE1996 is quite a lot cheaper than a Floyd, Floyd and is at least the equal when it comes to metallurgy.
Saddles have nice beveled edges too.
Kahler is very expensive in Europe because of import duty and VAT, whereas Gotoh and Schaller have plenty of dealers.
I like a lot about the Kahler design - especially the constant string height when pulling the bar all the way up - but not enough to justify the cost.
@@pauln6803 GE 1996 is far from an option for me. I need space for palm muting so only low Floyds are in the game. In fact I don't understand how anyone can use standard Floyds at all with those screws sticking up. So now you're looking at a much smaller price difference and the fact that you can adjust the string spacing of the Kahler is more than enough to justify it.
@@poulwinther
Each to their own.
I too prefer low profile designs and if Gotoh were to bring out a LP version of the GE1996, my bank account would immediately be somewhat lighter.
They can fit a replica of the Edge arm, but keep the grub screw tension while they're at it please.
After the GE1996 and Ibanez Edge Pro I couldn't go back to the blocky, square saddles of the genuine Floyd bridges - including the low profile.
You can throw in the Ibanez Edge Zero with that; a step backwards IMHO.
On the other hand Kahler could produce some wider saddles so they could fit together at the widest setting for reinforcement as between a set of 10's and my ham fisted technique I always find the low E bends the saddle inwards.
Most peoole who "hate" Kahler havent even tried them...
A kahler is like the jazzmaster trem slightly less bad
No, I had an Agile 8 with a Kahler Trem and it was pretty damned frustrating. My tech hated having to set it up and was grateful when I finally bought an Ibby Prestige with an Edge trem instead.
@@MageroSTC Well I have a US made kahler on a 6 string and stays tune and setup well. Not really needed to setup it at all myself much. Tho the guitar itself is also very stable (not really needed much adjustments at all, 2008 made custom guitar). So totally different experience.
@@MageroSTC Agiles are pretty low end and any floating bridge on a 8-string is gonna be hard to keep in tune.
@@lynfastlynfast6706 Absolutely, and that's great to hear your experience with them is so positive! After watching this vid, I definitely have a more open mind in the future, but I still am not their biggest fan based on my own experience.
Dime on Kahlers: "too smooth dude".
Rick Rozz of Death and Massacre says the same, too wimpy. I like the smooth action personally.
He meant it as they're not a big chunk on the guitar that you can feel where the hand is better in hectic situations like jumping around on stage. The kahler is hard to bring the hand back to perfect palm chunk spot if not super familiar with kahlers.
Wait did he actually say that
@@velizarzhelev6552 yes he did
@@infinidominion makes tons of sense. I just never had an opportunity to try one personally. Once I figured out how to work my way around a Floyd and change strings in 10 minutes on one, I never wanted to try one.
Been wanting a Kahler for years ever since being into Steve Clark. Played one on an 80’s Explorer E2. I love the springy response and the way they look! I’ve been a Bigsby player for years, and that has suited me fine as I rarely do dive bombs or other tremolo tricks. Yet the desire to own at least one Kahler sticks with me! Great video thanks for the information.
I had never even heard of Khaler. They seem like they fix everything I don't like about my Floyds.
They really, really don't lol
You'll try out one then realize they really don't
Just use one.
The action is so alien, you don't feel "connected" to it in the way a pivot trem works.
The Kahler is really an updated Bigsby, and just about works in that application.
The hugely over-priced aspect is just the icing.
If palm muting is an issue, yes they do fix that.
@@Gr-Ra5 you couldn't be more wrong
Thank you for doing justice to a brand that was hated. As someone who had experience with the shaming of some of his work its highly appreciated
The Kahler fixed with behind the nut lock is my preferred bridge. The brass rollers don’t chew up my hands and the tuning stability is spot on. I don’t know if they’re made anymore, but there was a floating system that could be placed on the existing tune-o-matic studs with little or no routing. I loved that thing.
They still make a Kahler for tuneomatics, but I’m pretty sure you still have to route it out
Floyd rose makes a tuneomatic tremelo bridge. Zero routing, but it does look kinda gaudy. It's called FRX
When i do tremolo with bending
My string: Please no more!
Me: Still bending more~
My string: "Goodbye my owner"
String: Goodbye, cruel world
I'm leaving you today
Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye...
Goodbye my owner it's hard to die
When all the strings are in the sky
@@bradleyard4195 of course a wall reference
@@danm1556 You say that as though it's a bad thing. I mean, come on, it's a classic album.
@@bradleyard4195 probably my most played album
Never tried a kahler. I like that there's so little work involved in replacing strings compared to floyds.
But the windings at the end of plain strings tend to unravel with a Kahler
@John J. Sanchez I have actually never had this problem. I thought about doing this solder thing but haven't had the string problems everyone talks about. I do change my strings after 40 to 50 hours use, though.
@@christebo7305 exactly, if you're playing a lot, especially playing out a lot and you sweat all over them, you should change your strings every week or two regardless. When I was playing in bands I'd ALWAYS change strings Wednesday or Thursday, we'd rehearse Thursday night, and I'd be good to go for Fri and Sat night gigs. By Tuesday night rehearsal I could tell they were getting nasty.
People get used to playing dead, dirty strings, often because they're just lazy, and that's a shame. Fresh strings sound so much better.
I play pretty hard on all my guitars, trem or otherwise, and I VERY rarely break strings. If you're breaking a lot of strings either you have some kind of burr on the bridge somewhere, the nut isn't set up right, or you're just trying to use the same ones too long.
@@BillDerBerg Had several guitars over the last 30 years with Kahlers, never once ever encountered this problem, and I leave strings on forever.
@@corneliuscrewe677 glad you never experienced it but strings unraveling was such an issue with Kahler flat mount bridges Ernie Ball created an RPS reinforced string set especially for those bridges
I have a peavey predator with kahler tremolo, it had been on my wall for 5 years just picked it up today and it was still perfectly in tune.
I completely forgot about that. I have a Peavey Predator that I never play (Suck at 7 string) it holds tune well yeah, It is a little bit warbly with my right hand though, but I love the percussive sound you get from it for muting etc.
Other benefits to the Kahler: You can rest your palm on the bridge and it wont push it out of tune. When you pull up on the bar it wont choke off on the frets because the bridge remains at a fixed height unlike a floyd.
That was a question I had thanks for pointing that out
Those are 2 huge important points.
Kahlers: "What if an expert engineer designed a Jazzmaster trem?"
Not only can you aggressively palm mute or lay your hand firmly on it without it going sharp like a floating Floyd, but it goes much less flat during aggressive double stop bends. And, the fixed string height you mentioned during pull-ups also means the string height doesn't *increase* during dive bombs, causing a change of tone and loss of output.
When I was first learning to play back in the 80"s I learned on Kahler equipped guitars and prefer them to Floyd's myself
My main guitar since 1984 has been an Explorer I had custom built by Hugh Manson. I wanted it fitting with a Kahler because I preferred the feel against a Floyd Rose. He also installed a roller nut. It has been the most stable guitar for maintaining tuning no matter how much I use the Trem and its still going strong today, 39 years later and its had no maintenance except lubrication when needed! It also sustains forever.
I’ve always avoided Kahler due to rumours of tuning instability. May have to try one on my next build!
They're excellent and are on-par with a Floyd. It's all preference to feel.
Many of those rumours are rubbish. They’re largely on par with the Floyds. Marginally better in some regards and marginally less so in others, but broadly speaking, they’re great enough.
Do it! If you prefer a lighter/subtler feeling trem but want the same amount of range, and are willing to give up a bit of fluttering, kahler is the way to go.
I had a Kahler on my guitar. You could hear it go out of tune. Play a chord and enjoy the sound of the G string detuning. They might be better these days, but I'll probably never use one again.
Anyone saying either trem goes out of tune just sucks at using them
Ability to change the string spacing is pure genius and makes other systems look like something of a joke.
I know, but you really have to set it up just right. But yea, it's a great feature.
It’s a neat feature for sure, but most will end up with a spacing that matches the width of the neck and pickup pole spacing, and never adjust it again, so it’s debatable how useful it is in the real world.
@@ollimoore That's...kind of the point though. You can drop a Kahler in ANYTHING with regards to neck width and fretboard radius. You can't with a Floyd.
@@Kylora2112
Yeah, and my point (which I probably didn't make clear enough the first time to be fair) is that because the person setting up the guitar is likely just going to match the pickup spacing, the string spacing will be one of two standard sizes after all. Sure, that's a plus point against a Floyd as the Floyd can only match one of those, but most of the guitars one might sensibly be considering putting a Floyd on will likely have pickup spacing that matches the Floyd. Plus, chances are if you're setting up a Kahler to be Gibson spacing, it'll be one of the tune-o-matic retrofit type. They could've just made the TOM version with fixed Gibson spacing and the flatmount with Fender spacing and the vast majority of users would've been just fine.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it isn't a good feature, just that it isn't all that important a lot of the time. (probably why it's a rare feature) Potential buyers ought to check whether they actually need an unusual spacing before considering it a major selling point for them.
Floyds can potentially be adjusted for radius using shims, but yes that's an advantage to the kahler although not as unique as the adjustable spacing. Not relevant to what I was saying however.
That little screw to lock the bridge is so priceless in a locking trem... i might need to try one of these
I’ve always liked kahler’s. A lot of people will complain about tuning instability in about every trem that’s not a Floyd rose. Use graphite lube when installing new strings at the nut and bridge.
kdh is the only channel i click on very fast
And one of the channels that defends the vulnerable and victims of hate!
Also, he's a killer guitar player. But that's stuff everybody's already well aware of.
lol, I usually click pretty fast also.. That first video? omg....dropped a bomb man...ha... u can't even see that video anymore now.. took it off huh?
I loved my Pro Cam that came stock with my San Dimas Jackson Telly Custom! Yes Tele shaped. One of the reasons people complain is about the tone; when installed flat on top of a strat type there is not enough string breakover angle. One of the best repairman I ever had used to rout out the top to countersink the unit in the body. Much better tone and sustain! My Jackson was a pre factory with a sharper neck angle so it could mount flat. When Jackson started using only Floyd types, recessed, they reduced the neck angle. Next the bad issue was the Kahler nut. The Floyd nut swap fixed that for me.
as a musician who started with Classical guitar, this tremolo system makes way more sense than Floyd's
You didn't think anyone would recognize Walkin' Shoes by Tora Tora at the end, did ya?
I was gonna say that.
Good thing I read the comments first. Lol.
btw.
That was cool
One of my old bands got to open for them in the early 90s. Super cool guys and great players.
They have a new album out that is freaking awesome!! Its called Basterds of Beale
Always liked the Surprise Attack CD. It has three good tunes. I don't recall why but one day I discovered Bombs Away and Revolution Day. Bombs Away also has three good tunes but Revolution Day has five!
I have compared Floyd Rose with Kahler and I like Kahler better , they have indeed a smoother action. Only problem with Kahler is as you said snapping of the first and sometimes second spring at the bridge end. This is easily solved with soldering the spring at the ball end. I installed a Kahler on one of my guitars and it works fine for me!
Kerry King moment
Jerry Cantrell and Jim Martin used them, that's all i need to know
adrian belew and rob fetters too
Kerry King and Jeff Hanneman
@oscar darrell it's not a trem tho
I guess I’ll add KK Downing and Glenn Tipton to the group.
I have used Kahlers on all of my builds, including 10 strings. I love them! However, you do need to know how to set one up to get the most out of them. The customizability in terms of: fretboard radius, string spacing, and height, is VERY handy, as is the ability to customize the bridge’s materials.
Correct... but once set up, they are good to go. You do need to grease them on occasion. I love mine.
Every time I tried a Kahler, I loved it. It had excellent tuning stability and was arguably the most comfortable vibrato system I ever played. I remember playing a Jeff Hanneman signature model and how easy it was to play just about everything. And that doesn’t even begin to describe the setup possibilities with a Kahler. I would definitely buy a guitar with one if I can get the money to do so.
The best part about Kahlers are that some of their bridges are ambidextrous.
Really interesting since I am left handed. Do you have any specific floating Kahler tremolos to suggest?
Honestly, nothing in particular. But I was looking at their 6 string aluminum and brass tremolo. All I can say is go to the website and see what you like. I hope this helps, and that you find something.
It's even better, the Mahler shown in the video has 3 bar holes, one of them is in the middle of the strings making it technically ambidextrous
I was mainly referring to the ones on their website with 5 bar holes, but yeah, you definitely could keep the bar in the middle. Even if you're not using it as a tremolo, the roller saddles make it ambidextrous.
I would say the best part about Kahlers is that you don't have to hack a huge passthru hole in your guitar. Even the routed versions take only a pickup's worth of wood.
KDH, the cam geometry Kahlers with the string lock actually came first, then the double-locking fulcrum models several years later. Gary Kahler chose the behind-the-nut string lock because he wanted his tremolo system to be easily installed without the services of a skilled luthier. And, Floyd Rose had an active patent on the locking nut.
I have a 1986 Carvin V220T with an all-brass 2320 Pro Series Kahler, with the optional heavy springs and heavy stainless steel bar for a firmer feel. It was originally equipped with the requisite Kahler string lock with the flipdown levers, which I replaced with a Floyd Rose nut. In my opinion, this recipe is the ultimate tremolo system, and that guitar performed flawlessly as my main workhorse during 10 years of gigging and recording. I never had the end wrap breakage problem, but I did also change my strings at least weekly. I've owned and used many original 80's Made In Germany Floyd Rose trems, but I definitely prefer my 2320 with the heavy springs and bar.
As for the double-locking fulcrum models, I have a mid/late 80's Kramer Focus with a Kahler 2720 Spyder, and one with a Floyd Rose. Both are great (just different) and both have flawless tuning stability, no matter what you do with them. I also used to have a Peavey Vandenberg with an oddball double-locking Kahler/Floyd Rose-licensed fulcrum model that differs from the one on every other Vandenberg I've seen. AAMOF, it's the ONLY one I've ever seen, and it was a superb trem.
Thank you for your presenting the facts about this splendid marvel of engineering.
I came into the ownership of a Peavey Vortex 2, and the Kahler bridge is one of the most exciting things about it! The CAM design is ingenious, especially compared to a Floyd Rose. It's more versatile and adjustable as well. The rollers on mine need replacing, but I've done my best to clean them up. It stays in tune, even after whammy abuse, and being around since 1986!
Kahlers > Floyd rose
I will fight to the death with anyone who disagrees 😂😂😠
come at me bro
Let us see you do some dime bag pullbacks. I didn't think so...
Hell yeah!
@@ordohereticus3427 did you respond to my comment?
@@DannyKGuitar u wot m8
Kahler is my favorite bridge. I even go back enough to have a Accutune on my Dean Hollywood Z back in 1983.
Can you flutter on a Kahler andy la rocque style? Edit: never mind you answered this. I must learn patience.
Kahlers are definitely underappreciated, ordered a fixed bridge Kahler for my Dave Mustaine King V project and the invoice for the part came with a handwritten and signed thank you note from Gary Kahler himself, cool to see that the founder of the company is still that involved with production.
Gary visited a Luthiery class I was taking a few years ago. Really great guy. He was very patient and answered all of the questions I punished him with haha. I wish they were more common as I find them to be superior to and just way less of a pain in the balls to work on than a Floyd.
@@toddhamiltonwashere Mr. Kahler has a video or two on youtube about how to properly set up your Kahler. That's really the problem most people have with them, they just don't know how to set it up. So if for some reason if the bridge wasn't right when they got it, they think "This design just sucks."
As you probably learned, once you've got it set up right you may never have to mess with it again. Unless you drastically change string gauges or something. I set mine up yearrrrs ago, and I go back and forth between 10s and 11s on it and never change a thing. It stays in tune regardless. I can't even tell if the intonation changes, and neither can my digital tuner.
Floyds are like old Harleys, you're constantly mucking about with the damn thing just to get it to run. Even just changing strings is unnecessarily complicated.
@@dogslobbergardens6606 wait till floyd fans have to install and set one up. Then they'll see hoe damn tedious the process it
I was trained by Kahler to install Kahlers, and was even on their Christmas card list for quite a long time. 1977?? Kahler Brass made bridges for Jackson, Kramer, Fender, etc.
I have had guitars with just about every locking tremolo but I still go back to my favorite, The original Edge tremolo on my 1989(?) Ibanez 540r which is a Floyd Rose licensed tremolo. It is a FR style trem with all of the "bugs" worked out. Great video.
I do like the Ibanez Edge Trem.I like the low profile Floyds/Edges but normal ones are fine. My actual guitar has a Washburn 600s which is a rebranded Japanese Takeuchi TRS101. A very good licenced Floyd. the Korean KKT3 was always much harder to set up in the first place. I worked in a music shop and set up a LOT of these things.
Been using Kahlers and Floyds since the mid 80's, love them both, each have their advantages although for me, the Floyd's are a bit more of a pain in the ass to keep set up.
I bought a KK 2nd Gen BC Rich V, of course Kahler's installed. And I realized that I've spent for almost 30 years with wrong tremolo that is Floyd rose. The first distinctive thing for me, not the dive or pull but is the "Angle" my wrist to the bridge. This tremolo gives me the right and comfortable angle to my wrist when doing fast downpickings and alternate pickings. I was melting and bending the picks or try to change the grip like Hetfield does but this trem gives the best angle to my wrist.
Many moons ago I used to own an 80’s Ibanez destroyer just like Phil Collen’s. It had a retrofitted Kahler and Floyd locking nut. It played fantastic and didn’t go out of tune if I remember correctly.
The legendary Jerry Cantrell of Alice in Chains also uses them and has since he's been using those old G&L Rampage's from the 80s
But he's a _shite_ guitarist_ - we must remember that. It's like recommending a toothbrush because it's the same one Shane McGowan uses.
@@keithreeder Says fucking who? Lil Wayne is a "shite" guitarist, Jerry isn't Vai or Randy Rhoads but he's a great player and wrote some of the best music of the 90s imo.
@@HXCBeard agreed. some of the best sounds from the 90s were pioneered by Cantrell
@@keithreeder you’re out of your damn mind
@@keithreeder from all of the 90s grunge guitarist he was definitely the best out of all of them
Actually I like the Kahler Whammy Bridge better than I used to years ago because it's in way better shape these days
I hate all trems.
We understand. You have to want those crazy fx to make it worth the difficult setup
Never had tuning issues when i had a Kahler,it was way better than Floyds.
Exactly it’s all about how its installed
That's so true!!! Better than Floyd
Hey can you tell me what he says at 6:06 I couldn't understand what he suggests about melting
@@stamfarbrann9305 He's saying to put some solder on the end of the string. (Some people pronounce it as "Soder")
@@braveguide Thanks a lot!
Try the trem on a mustang or a Jag-Stang, that is the worse tremolo ever devised and spawned into creating.
You made me seriously consider them now. Having a smaller route means they could replace a fixed bridge much more easily
Yup. I did it on different guitars that had TOM bridges. When you buy the kahler that suits your tastes and needs, it comes with a template to do the work. If you aren't comfy with that, I definitely suggest bringing your axe to someone who knows.
@@axmnstrbnd does a kahler route cover the 4 holes that are drilled for a TOM?
@@yallevereatenbeans2723 they do! Wish there was a way to show pics here.
@@axmnstrbnd Damn, I was hoping you'd say no, now I'm getting ideas lol
@@yallevereatenbeans2723 hahahahahaha!!! Get it bro!! You won't be disappointed. I promise. I bought the hybrid.. not sure if they all come with it now, but then, it had an allen screw on the back of the trem to lock it and make it a fixed bridge. Which makes changing strings a damn god send! Im telling you, you won't be mad you got a kahler. Theres so may pluses to them!
I'm curious however the string snapping issue scares me
I dont get the soldering tip he said. I have been playing kahler for over 20yrs and can't remember the last time a string broke. I use ghs boomers 10-52
I never had this happen to me with a Kahler. But with Floyds? All the damned time.
honestly it's super easy. Just melt a drop or two of solder onto the string windings near the ball end (where the excess windings overlap). It reinforces the string where it passes over the cam, and that solves 95% of string breaking on a kahler.
according to whammyparts.com some strings like ernie balls are prone to break on kahlers, a few brands are mentioned that provide better durability on a kahler like ghs or other extra reinforced strings
those reinforced strings are not hard to find you can look up the strings he showed on amazon, the difference is, is that it costs a little more.
I own a Washburn 2001 Wonderbar. Love it. It never goes out of tune. Ive had it about 30 years... I would love to try a Kahler though. I own a Floyd rose right now, hate it, I'm going to order one of those little gadgets you put on the back of the trem to help it stay in tune. Wish me luck.
3:23 insert Seinfeld “not that there’s anything wrong with that” 😂
Gotta try it, I didn’t know there was an alternative to the Floyd rose
One of best tremolo-systems you can get - Kerry King uses in all his guitars
Bad example,,, SLAYER is killer,,but Kerry is not really a great guitarist.
@@shawnduffy5766 Bonehead! Kerry King is one of the best speed- and thrashmetal guitarists of the world. He was one of the first musicians who formed and created this genre of metal
First of all, bonehead,, I know what Slayer has done,,and like it or not,there was thrash before Slayer,, everything up to seasons in the abyss are awesome,,and wether you like it or not,,he's just a rhythm guitarist for Slayer. If it wasn't for Jeff Hannemen forming Slayer and showing Kerry how to play guitar,,u wouldn't even know who he is! Sorry Jr,,just like hammet w his wah pedal,,u take Kerry's kahler and the show is over. Not to mention that he's a pretentious dick,,,I've met him enough to know.
Kerry admitted that he only plays kahlers because he learned on them and couldn’t play anything else
@@shawnduffy5766 Jeff said that Kerry had 5 years on him and that he learned from Kerry. He said that himself in an old ESP Guitars interview. Jeff used a Kahler, too.
I'M ADDING THIS HERESY TO MY AUDIO AUDIT ON KDH!!!!
NOW PLAY LEFT HANDED, I DOUBLE DARE YOU!
I stood there in the crowd, oh so many years ago and I watched Fernando Von Arb play a Hamer with a Kahler. It worked very well for him. 🤘😃🤘
Kahlers are fantastic!!! I own more than one of them... I own Floyds and Ibanez trems as well. For myself Kahlers are by far the easiest to set up and I find the most adjustable as well. I actually do prefer their buttery smooth actions and feel for most trem stuff. The options of either brass or steel works out great for me and I like the different tonal qualities of both. I totally agree with losing the string lock and using a locking nut instead. Also good strings are an absolute must indeed... I use the D'Addario NYXL anyway so it's all good. Kahler without a doubt are a far better tremolo than a lot of people give them credit for. When Kahlers are set up properly they are an absolute pleasure to play with great tone and sustain as well. Now with all that said I still do really like my Floyds and Ibanez trems as well. However if you have never played a Kahler you owe it to yourself to give one a try if you get the chance... who knows you might end up preferring them more?
Yup... they are gems... we have similar experiences
I agree 100% you asked me they’re the best and I think Kerry King would agree mine hold their tune forever
Instead of soldering the ends of the strings, when I had a NJ Bc Rich Ironbird I used to put the strings into cut down wire sheaths right at the end. That prevents some of the friction.
I have a 86 Charvel 3A with a Kahler but I'm missing the Whammy bar. Where do I get a Whammy bar for my made in USA Kahler fulcrum?
You can use a standard screw in USA Fender style arm but you can buy from kahler directly and whammy world you can choose the original Fender style arm with tip the flyer style and heavy bar which are more modern style arms
I always loved the engineering behind Kahler over Floyd Rose, both have their place, just not in my guitars, as I only play fixed bridges.
That's why I prefer the Kahler over the Floyd I'm a big fixed bridge les Paul guy and when I am playing heavy and muting you hear the pitch going up and down on a Floyd but not on a Kahler. If your not use to playing with a Floyd you end up bending the pitch by laying your palm on the strings trying to mute while playing heavy riffs
Installed a Kahler on my Travis Bean circa '82. Never had any issues with tuning stability. Loved it; the next time I install a trem, definitely a Kahler.
I still have my copy of Travis Beans first catalog !
I put a Kahler on one of my early 60’s Danelectros. It KILLS!
Funny. I just made a video how I fixed my Kahler 🙌 Love that tremolo!
Slayer was the only thing keeping these guys in buisness lol
Jerry Cantrell and many others too
And Les Claypool
@@isetta4083 primus sucks
Eric & Brian Hoffman from Deicide, Glen Tipton from Judas Priest also used kahlers
Idk if it counts, but Mustaine used Kahler on his old Jacksons, and iirc he still uses them
The only REAL problem with a Kahler is when you drop and the strings come off of the rollers. Otherwise, there's nothing that beats divebombing with a Kahler.
Glenn Tipton never seemed to have any problems with his Kahlers. Too, I enjoyed the video but I'm good with standard Fender fulcrum trems
Yeah most pics show him with Floyds, google it
@@b.scottfarthingsworth …yeah, I don't use Google, and 2 of Glenn's main custom designs through Hamer-the stretched-out Strat-like shape and the 4-point shape-that he used throughout his career, had Kahlers. Same goes for some stuff he did with Ltd. DuckDuckGo it…I just did
@@creamygoodness3018 Yep, you're dead right. Glenn has always used Kahlers since the mid 80s. I think only KK deviated from them over to Floyds when he went with the speedloaders on his KxK guitars.
@@sirlemonhead7715 Yup! Too, I like the Kahlers well enough, I s'pose…but I prefer Floyds as they feel closer to a standard Fender trem than the Kahlers, and Fenders are my preference
@@creamygoodness3018 you know google owns UA-cam right?
Ever since that RC audit, this has quickly become a must-watch channel for me. Love the content!
Thanks for the video! I definitely want to try one and maybe even buy a guitar with a Kahler. I had heard of the brand long before but didn't know the differences or what it could do. I basically abandoned my Floyd Rose guitars after my lil brother lent me one of his Les Pauls. I hardly ever played them in the past because of their weight but I liked his so much I bought it off him and went on buying other guitars, SG, Flying V, Explorer, another Les Paul etc. I got bored with my FR axes and they are now gathering dust. This Kahler trem might inspire me to do new things =)
You can change the flutter speed by simply adding weight to the tip of tremolo arm. I used to stick a steel pipe over mine to slow down the flutter. Just wedged it on. You can add so much weight that you can get a really silly...super wide...floppy flutter. Try some visegrips with some paper to prevent scratching the arm...but that's if you want to experiment with the crazy wide slow flutter....
Listen, I'm only 44 years old but I grew up in the 80's and back then Kahler was every where and I loved them. They were great, the adds ya show at the beginning of this video was the Kahler spider and that's the trem that got them sued by Floyd Rose. So those weren't around much. The coolest guitar to me with a Kahler was the Gibson Les Paul, which Gibson would make and put out themselves. Those things played great.
My biggest gripe with Floyd Rose is that to me their a "one size fits all" kinda thing where as the Kahler can have the radius changed to whatever guitar ya like. Although the Ibanez edge type Floyd does come shaped to the radius of their necks, and too me are the improvement on the Floyd Rose, More companies should do that in my opinion. (check out the Ibanez edge pro) their out of production now but they were great. So where the other Edge systems but the Edge Pro was my favorite.
I think all the trems can work pretty well if people will learn how to set them up, and in saying that there are trems like the regular Fender Strat trems that I never learned, so I'm guilty too.
But Kahler's are awesome and too me run circles around Floyd Rose.
I had a Kahler Sypder, By that time Kahler had integrated the locking mechanism into the nut. I may have liked it slightly better than the Floyd mainly because because intonation adjusting screws are available. I do prefer the fulcrum style over the cam but that's just what I'm used to. Kahler's system is much more modular.
I have had 2 guitars that had kahlers bridges. i love them . Cause palm muting the string. the bridge doesn't have a tendency to tone down. horns up for kahler.
Fixed bridges all day. Not that trem systems are the devil or anything.
I hate the way fender bridges feel when palm muting. The edge lo pro is the feel and since I play different I sound different.
Reason I prefer Kahler over Floyd is because they feel more like a fixed bridge.
Kahlers have lock pins on the side that turns them into a fixed bridge.
Wanted to see how he deals with hair caught in the Kahler.
I was planning on just blowing through here brother. But your video was outstanding. And when you broke into Tora Tora walking shoes. I knew I had to subscribe. You are the s***!
Had a charvel model 6 with kahler.. Never had one single issue with it.. Always stayed in tune
same , yeah great guitars and great Trem
Honestly I forgot about these. I installed one of the 1st back in the 80's on a les Paul, bad idea. It work ok back it devalued the guitar. They make so much more sense on new builds with locking tuners.
Never played a Kahler. I would like to. Always heard the negatives about them. Reminds me of the old VHS/Betamax argument. Thanks for the video and insight.
I put kahlers on all my guitars! i think they’re awesome
Back in the day I had a Kahler on my Strat. Loved It. The ability to “move” chords around with your little finger was the best. I’m think I may need to buy one now 🤔
So are you saying that chords stay in tune while you're using the whammy bar? I like the Floyd Rose for coming back to pitch perfectly, but noticed very quickly that whammying double stops or chords would produce dissonance as the strings modulate at different rates.
@@christianfoster3806 - I can say that the chords would not stay in tune. There was for sure some movement in and out of tune. For me it was fine. Not doing crazy bends. Just moving the chords, add some delay and bringing in some dissidence but I liked it.
I'm the owner of Whammy Parts, the only official dealer of Kahler parts. This video pretty much nails all the main points. I've enjoyed reading all the comments as well. Thanks for posting this!
my strings kept coming off the rollers all I'm gonna say.
Same
6'1", man KDH is pretty size.
Eyyyy i see what you did there
👉 👃
Wassup snack machine
I installed one on my Ibanez RG8 to fix the tuning stability problems on the 8th string and it worked really well! I rarely use it as a trem though, I keep it as a double locking fixed bridge
I have an 80's BCR ST with a Kahler and I love it.
Full disclosure though: It was the first guitar I purchased with a locking trem, having only had Les Paul's and Strats.
It would be several years before I picked up a Jackson with my first Floyd.
So maybe Kahler being the first clouds my judgment, but I always preferred it over Floyd.
And with FR's being ubiquitous these days a lot of younger people notice that the Kahler looks different and is always a conversation starter.
I believe the cam Kahler's were the original ones. They were on the market before they started making the knife-edge Floyd copies.
Yup...their fulcrum trem led to a lawsuit from Floyd if memory serves...
Yes the cam trems came first for Kahler. HOWEVER - Kahler (operating as APM) did contract with Floyd Rose to produce a few hundred of the first fine tuner whale tail Floyd's, prior to production ramp up in Germany by Schaller. Thanks Kahler! Gary turns around and made his own versions of fulcrum based trems and Floyd sued Kahler. The trem world is a litigious bunch.
i said this 2 months after you. Guess i might try reading the comments first
Kahler fan here. My first was a Kahler Pro that came on a 1986 US series B.C. Rich Warlock I bought in 86. Definitely prefer them over the Floyd Rose locking trems.
FYI, you can set a Floyd to any radius you want. It's way more involved since you have to use shims under each saddle block to set the string height for each saddle but it is doable. Personally I think the Kahler is the superior trem for one reason, it doesn't vary the string length by physically moving the string towards the nut as you dive or pulling it away as you raise the arm. This means your chords stay a bit truer when you apply the trem during a chord.
you have the timeline backwards. The cam systems were the originals, and the Floyd copies came later
correct! these came out when i first started playing in the early 80s and they were the super sensitive cam style for sure!