What Makes Fashion "Luxury"?
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- Опубліковано 1 кві 2023
- How do we define luxury fashion? What about the term "high fashion?" Do these phrases mean the same thing? And what brands do we lump into these categories? Are all luxury fashion brands made equal? While these questions might seem like small potatoes, I think the way brands actually shape our perception of "luxury" and "high-ness" plays a huge role in our appreciation of fashion. Thats what the video is about.
Special thanks to @fashionlover4 for providing his insight for this video! - Навчання та стиль
perception defines luxury
boom the answer,
Yo I like the Nas Illmatic profile pic. Great album.
boom
@@BraveNewWear Sup, Brave. What’s the ID on that chair right at the start of the video?
*fashion fetishism defines value
I think an example of high fashion without luxury is very avant garde fashion; probably the opposite of comfort in clothing. If you see someone walking down the street in cdg lumps and bumps you will probably think they're crazy unless you're in this niche space.
High fashion example for me would be Iris Van Herpen. Exploration into construction methodology is the point most of the time. Those pieces are def not comfort and only a few of them are made. Tho idk if it would be considered luxury. Apart from it being hand made and expensive beyond belief.
"The mark of true luxury is not the grand gesture, but the simple things done well" ;)
This is legitimately the best video I’ve seen all week. These are the conversations we’re meant to be having in the fashion community right now, so I loved this!
"Luxury" is an abstract.
It is something that goes beyond what you need, you'll get just because you like it.
So if you get an arc'teryx jacket because you go hiking all the time, it's just a good item, but if you buy an arc'teryx jacket to flex on people in cafés, it luxury.
i guess watches like the Rolex Submariner had a similar origin. It was reasonably priced for the technology in the mid 20th century but through marketing and product placement needing a watch like that, having something thats so technically proficient became the status symbol and now its overtly seen as a luxury product vs a practical timepiece.
I would consider arc’teryx luxury within the hiking world because you have so many cheaper options as well. Especially their top of the line pieces which are extremely expensive compared to the basic rain jacket that hypebeasts popularized.
@@davidpachecogarcia well that's kind of the point.
I've found Once you get to the disgustingly expensive "Luxury" brands the less fashionable they are and more just basics made from insanely nice proprietary materials. I have 4 pairs of Loro Piana pants and while they are insanely nice material, immaculate construction, and more comfortable than other comparable pants... I would not say they are worth the price... Like at all. I'd say $120 is a perfect price for them 😅
For Loro Piana as low as £120 so their silk and cotton t-shirts would be about £25😂 we need you on the board !!
Great video! I like the idea of each brand defining luxury and if Acne studios continues in this direction maybe that'll mean other brands will follow and we'll get more lower priced luxury/high fashion brands? That would be the dream. I really need to look into Acne more, you've inspired me, any recommendations on some their best shows other than FW20?
W fashionlover4
@fashionlover4 I would say go back to very early in their work to see the transformation. Also, they were an art collective before fashion which shines through imo
I think that up to a point, something can be high fashion without being truly luxurious, but if it’s good, there’s an element of luxury nonetheless. When I was a poor college student (design), I would try to make fabulous clothes from inexpensive fabrics, because my budget was seriously tight. But though the designs were unique, the cut was perfect, and the sewing impeccable, those attempts could never read as high fashion. The inexpensive fabric came through in how it moved, etc. And perhaps I was unwilling to compromise my aesthetic and adjust to the way the compromise fabric felt, moved, interacted with light, etc. (for example, a design for a linen item made from an imitation linen). 😉 I was better off dealing with the extra work of finding used clothes made from good materials and re-cutting them than settling for inexpensive fabric that could be cut to any design.
On the luxury side, material and price alone are not enough, though they are important elements. As your guest said, it’s a sliding scale depending on your income, but price can be as much about how you act when you wear it as whether strangers will recognize the price. When you’re wearing your most expensive items, you carry yourself differently, etc., which affects how others see you, which increases the affect on your attitude, feeding into a kind of confirmation bias loop. This is true regardless of the style you’re wearing; you’ll still get the desired reaction, whatever that reaction is. “Luxurious” fabric, whatever the type, if well thought out to enhance not just the look but also how it moves and feels, adds to this in a high fashion+luxury design.
On the other hand, expense in materials and purchase price is not enough. I think we’ve all seen amazing fabric wasted on bad design, an of course ugly expensive clothes (yes, ugly is pejorative and subjective, so use your preferred subjective example to fill in the example). To my mind, those are not “luxurious,” they are simply expensive, a crude form of conspicuous consumption. The owner may think that it’s luxurious, which will affect their bearing, but it’s more of a “didn’t I pay a lot, you peon” attitude rather than a, “I feel fabulous because this is amazing” attitude. If it’s honestly luxurious, truth and art will shine through. 🙂
Oops, missed part of the Venn diagram (and too lazy to re-write to put it in the right spot) - luxurious without being high fashion. An attractively made item from good or great material is luxurious. It can feel and looks amazing, even if the design isn’t cutting edge or even trendy. But, is it still luxurious if it used to be fashionable and is now seriously “out?” Perhaps the circles need gradated coloration. 😉
i appreciate the detailed comment Peni but I think I'd argue your efforts in college are high fashion to a major degree. I think effort in design and construction go a long way in terms of what makes something really qualify as "luxury"
Luxury = Refined, High = Innovative. Best way I can explain it is with cars; a Bentley or Rolls Royce vs a McLaren or Pagani. Where the Ven diagram cross is money. To make the most refined mean to use the best. To be innovative, you still need the best to go where most can't. It's super confusing these days because connoisseurship, tastemakers, lifestyles, are pretty much gone. Subcultures have been replaced with aesthetics. Lifestyles with vibes. The rules and standards have been atomized to the individual. The fashion industry is taking advantage of this by making low cost hoodies that they jack the price up on because consumers don't care about the substance, they care about the abstract concept. Bringing back to cars. The consumer doesn't care about the specs of a hyper car or the comfort features of a luxury car, they largely care about the recognition that the car brings. Same with clothing. Same with...well, everything.
Thank you for this nice and informative video Steve Buscemi!
I like how you present a question and after I’m finished watching your video you’ve left me with more questions and no answers 🙂
If a brand takes themselves too seriously (i.e. never allowed to smile in ads) it's "high" fashion. Also packaging matters. To be luxury you have to take care in regards to that part of the customer experience. To buy everyday clothes at a place like LV means having stacks and stacks of orange boxes that seem to say "this is special occasion stuff". But I guess that's the life of rich ppl, special occasion all the time.
Hell yeah, brother!
For some reason the first brand I thought of with the question of high fashion that may not be luxury is A Cold Wall. A Cold Wall is daring and is manufactured very well, but I wouldn't put it in the same club as Louis Vuitton, Hermes, etc in terms of being "luxury fashion"
yessir very cool !
Have a makio ma-1 bomber from acne, still my fav outerwear over the yrs
a friend of mine has 1, ive always loved the material and way its cut. I dont blame u
Thanks for the book recommendation! I love Dana Thomas, and I wasn’t aware of ‘Deluxe’. Cheers!
cool! i honestly only knew her from this book so maybe i should check the rest of her work out.
@@BraveNewWear ‘Fashionopolis’ is an incredible book.
I think an important question to ask is what differentiates ultra premium from luxury products. I recently started reading the Luxury Strategy by Jean-Noël Kapferer and I think he has one of the more applicable definitions of the two categories:
Ultra premium includes products that are superior by comparison. They have superior quality, materials, design and so forth. If you take the example of cars, the top Mercedes models would be ultra premium. Someone who buys a Mercedes justifies the money spent because they get top of class performance and comfort. Therefore the price is logically justifiable and there is a linear relationship between price and quality.
On the other hand, luxury is not justifiable by comparison. You don't buy a Ferrari because the price - performance ratio makes sense. You buy it because the brand is in its own league. It comes with the cultural cache. A second aspect of a luxury product is that it requires sacrifice from the buyer. Unlike a Mercedes, where you would expect the car to function perfectly for many years and not break down, Ferraris are notorious for breaking down very easily. Ferrari owners know that they will have to continuously invest a lot of money to own the car and use it. You also have to sacrifice comfort to drive a Ferrari. The sacrifice makes it luxury because being a luxury consumer requires a specific mindset and lifestyle, not just money. You can see it with luxury clothing too. They are often fragile, hard to clean and uncomfortable.
A third difference is that ultra premium is top of line in terms of technology (whether it be construction, technique or materials), whereas luxury is top of line in terms of technology but also, and more importantly luxury products have an artistic vision. I would argue that Acne studios made premium products when they started, but now are transitioning to a more luxury position because while the construction and materials are there, the artistic vision has started to take precedence.
As for high fashion, that one is difficult to place. I think that high fashion brands have similar qualities to luxury brands, but they have a kind of cultural cache that devalues them once they get into the mainstream. Pure luxury products (like Hermes) exist in the public eye. A lot of people know about Hermes but few can afford it. On the other hand, the appeal of a brand like CCP is that few know about it. You have to understand many layers of fashion to aspire to own a piece. So there is a "knowledge tax" you have to pay plus you have to be constantly in the loop to get the current fashion landscape.
Sooo here's my wall of text summarized:
ultra premium = high quality + cutting edge
luxury = ultra premium + artistic vision + sacrifice
high fashion = luxury + knowledge + time component
love this comment, its true in a sense that we're seeing Acne go from premium to luxury as it establishes the catch of its brand. And I've got to add The Luxury Strategy to my reading list! (gonna look for a library copy tho, Idk if the author is pulling their own luxury strategy $40 for the hardcover)
@@BraveNewWear Hahahaha yeah it's a steep price but worth it
Whhhat collab of the day
gimme the collab of the day award
great vid i really cant believe u havent blown up
bruh, its ok I do it for the love of the game
I feel like the easy answer to "design vision but not luxury" is a certain type of high/low collab, like Margiela x H&M or maybe even the Yeezy GAP Balenciaga stuff? But I've always had a hard time grappling with that concept because in those cases a lot of the design has already been done on the "luxury" side and is just being pulled from or appropriated by the low side via a cosign from the high side. In a way they're almost like reps with cred, and reps are most certainly not luxury, right? Maybe??
Save it for the pod buddy
I’d argue brands like Opening Ceremony are high fashion but not luxury. The clothes have always been very high quality, unique designs, fabrics, cuts, some of it not best brand ethos out there with its old website, UA-cam channel, blog, and retail store experience. The brand doesn’t portray itself as elitist, ultra-expensive, or for a certain group of people. No other brand made waves in the same way they did and got accepted in the way they did all while making “cheaper” clothes.
I appreciate this answer! Maybe shutting down their brick and mortar further reduces their costs in a way.
good video christian, how'd you get your hands on the acrylic sculpture from acne studios soho?
your hair looks super nice
Thank you I need to get it cut today tho
first time i saw your vids so crazy and love your hair ❤
Luxury is subjective to each individual. Tho, that doesn’t mean that brands agree with that and will obviously design what their vision of luxury is.
Luxury to me is not needing to worry about anything during the span of an item or service. And if a worry arises it can be easily resolved by the brand.
As others have said, perception. Luxury nowadays is so subjective that I think it can change from garment to garment. A Gucci hoodie with the Gucci screen print on it, is not luxury, while a Gucci suit that you may have gotten tailored by Gucci themselves (if they offer tailoring at certain locations) is.
Back in the days, buying from luxury brands almost always meant a luxury experience and a luxury item. The luxury experience stayed, more or less and the products changed. They changed to cater to a more modern and younger audience.
fine, ill leave a like
13:52 - Sorry to double up but this is another concept I've been wrestling with regarding the quote you read here. A lot of brands, designers, even retailers like MR PORTER (it was a survey from the latter that made me first think of this) seem to equate luxury with an experience. Chanel wants you to feel like a special ritualistic experience when you shop with them. MR PORTER, judging by their survey, is very concerned with how clean and exclusive and frictionless their website experience is. At least for me, as a fashion enthusiast outside of a major city, that experience of luxury has very little overlap with mine, despite the fact that I certainly partake in the overall concept of luxury clothing very heavily. Food for thought, maybe I'm just typing out a future video idea for myself in real time.
Maybe I'm just weird, but I never ever felt the "Luxury shopping experience" when shopping online lol.
Maybe if they added a pop-up in the background that says "you can't afford it, why don't we just send you on to Zara".
Like, you don't see it, but you know it's there.. You can feel it all the time..
Then it's luxury shopping 🤣🤣
As a product designer and guide of human “experiences” the comment about people seeking an “experience” and equating that to luxury is interesting. There is evidence to suggest that ordered, minimalist physical stores and online stores can be perceived as “luxury.” This is why you see so many “luxury” brands that have this philosophy carried out in their physical stores and websites. This does begin the topic of “what is a luxury website tho.” And I can’t really point to anything because it’s generally not that hard to clean up a website to mimic what luxury brands are doing. The only one example I can think of are auto websites because they have the customizable 3d models of cars and various options. That technology is still expensive to carry out and at least I spend a lot of time reading all the options and testing to see what it physically changed on the model. Tho technically I suppose new cars can be considered a luxury. 🤔🤔🤔
Also speaking as a retired architect, physical stores use much better materials and there is more “design” thrown at how items are displayed as well as how a space should “feel.” Something that I suppose luxury buyers are speaking of when it comes to an “experience.” This is also seen in the employees who help you pick out items. If you buy something you get like a drink and the branded packaging of boxes within boxes - the unwrapping experience. There’s def a lot of design being thrown to guide that “luxury experience.”
Luxury is in the moment. it's why things are in/ out....then back in style.
In regards to the point, that many people claim, that they only care about the product, not about the brand or "luxury": There is this saying in fashion "put your money where your mouth is", so invest your money in things you enjoy for the thing itself, but also the background, company, message etc. Because the product is not only the garment itself isolated from everything, especially with social media. There is a lifestyle and a message intrinsically connected to the piece. An extreme example of this would be a situation in which, you the buyer, are presented two exact same tshirts, same quality, manufacturing, design etc. But the first tshirt is made by Hitler and directly supports nazi ideology (sry Ye) and the other one is made by Gandhi. Most people would gravitate towards the latter, simply because what we buy has an impact, says something about us, and is NEVER only the product. Great video as always btw :3
agreed and thats also why i never buy hitler t shirts
@@BraveNewWear buying vintage lederhosen from the weimar republic era you always run the risk
Yeezy is an example of a high fashion brand which have luxury
😂 gosh...u are funny.
I was literally just thinking abt this
read ur mind
Can anyone ID the black sweatshirt?
we need a hair tutorial
step 1, grow hair. TBH ive been doing the same thing for years but maybe i could talk about it 1 day
If you can buy a similar looking item for 30 bucks, the one that costs 10 times as much, is a luxury brand. And high fashion doesn't necessarily equal luxury. Luxury means getting something basic that is heightened in fabrication, materials, labor but not necessarily innovative or even refined design.
A label like COMME des GARÇONS with their many lines and a lot of Japanese brands for that matter kinda cover almost all these grounds. High art/fashion mostly in the main line, luxury in spurts through the Homme line, and CDG Play (heart eyes) the more “feasible” line. I say ‘feasible’ with heavy quotes! lol CDG just breaks the bank regardless!
I love the beige jacket, what brand is it?
Celine?
Its custom, i came up with the idea and had it made years ago. It doesnt fit well tho ;(
@@BraveNewWear sad :( hope you haven't given up tho. I'd love to see some Brave New Wear wear
for me luxury means paying than the bare minimum to gain added bonuses. E.g buying triple ply toilet paper. Single ply does the job, but its a nice experience using the triple ply. Or economy seats vs first class. im still going to the same place, but going in first class is nicer. Luxury is relative to whatever is the baseline for that thing.
high fashion is clothing with more concept behind it.
flying at all is also a luxury compared to walking or taking a cargo ship
Could the part of the Venn diagram that is high fashion but not luxury be...
... fast fashion?
I think there's interesting brands such as Bershka who basically take what's trendy and water it down to an affordable price. It's not just "basics" I'd argue, since what they offer just changes too quickly to be that.
But of course that's not all of fast fashion because it's become way too popular not to increase your pricing. Then again, that's just cost and not quality, so it's not luxury, is it?
So where does fast fashion really fall here? Can it be luxurious? Can it be high fashion?
idk, my initial thinking is that we would disqualify something as "high fashion" if its a otherwise cheap knock off. Like if its not an earnest homage then i assume we'd treat it like artists who tried to pass their work of as a Bosch back in the day. Otherwise I think fast fashion and everything else probably exists in their own ven diagrams.
waiting for the day when all the clothes will be graded like cs go items
Gray - fast fahion
Blue - fast fahion but with somewhat good materials
Deep blue - Sportswear stuff
Purple - Hyped limited streetwear brands and premium sport brands
Pink - HiGh FaShIoN
Red - Luxury
Yellow - legendary items like raf simons bomber idk
The important thing to acknowledge is that it's stupid to put all brand output under one umbrella, different kind of clothing do range in quality, that's why term high fashion makes sense, brands like acne studios do decent everyday garments and also capable of making suits for night out. They're doing fine job with what they have, louis vuitton and gucci do everyday items not because they're good at it but because there's a demand and they can feed to consumers anything they want so it comes down to people's consciousness and not to brand's place on the scale.
Also i find odd how you classified everything only by one characteristic (supreme is indeed hard to get but it's not of the greatest quality and far from fine made) which proves that the brand's place in a hierarchy is dictated by set of checks not by dictionary description of a term
id on sweatshirt?
pretty sure i was wearing a rue porter sweatshirt kinda my uniform
How did u buy the installation
if ur talking about my PC...I never did I use a mac to make my videos now and the PC is just for games
@@BraveNewWear I meant the acne piece in ur room how tf did u get that
shipping rn
😂
real (i cant afford anything)
(me neither)
I feel like considering something luxury simply because it is expensive is very new money. Very low class. Luxury is about the quality of the materials used, the processes used to construct the piece, and the details/craftmanship used to render the piece. Obviously getting the best quality in all three of those categories tends to be rather expensive, and thus the item ends up being expensive. However, simply thinking something is "luxury" because a company prices it exorbitantly is foolish and folly. I think the truly wealthy know this. If you buy a Louis Vuitton piece made of low quality materials, constructed with average construction processes, and with minimal attention to detail/craftmanship (but it's exorbitantly priced). That item is not luxury. Regardless of the name attached and how hard it would be to acquire monetarily.
i must achieve this status of "Truly Wealthy" and then possibly I'll be able to see with luxury vision.
I'm not sure if "ephemeral" accurately describes the phenomena at 4:21
Hey buddy dont give me lip i dont know what the words i say mean
Lol ion know if acne studios is luxury but I know that the fact that aCNE stands for ( Aspire to Create Novel Expressions) GROANS
this guy looks like steve buscemi mixed with drew gooden
hi Mr BNW
hi
Ive heen thinking about it and you look like emma chamberlain
acne should hire christian
tell me about it
sorry, i only saw the cat walking in at the end, so i have to say: pet the cat!
she gets attention constantly dont worry
the cat is part of the definition of bnw's brand of luxury. its a lifestyle marketing cat
Overpriced items if you're dumb enough to pay for a logo. 😅
Kirkland signature gud, designer brands bad.
good point
Now ACNE studios, Balenciaga and Gucci are not luxurious, they are expensive.
ACNE studios was basic.
Balenciaga was luxurious (with Cristobal Balenciaga) and expensive.
Gucci was luxurious and expensive.
i think gucci is still luxurious in the modern sense, but demnas balenciaga has just become funny hoodie for 1400$
@@eemilaatos Gucci sucks thanks to Alessandro Michelle, finally he is out.
Look the crappy street wear design now in brands like Louis Vuitton, Dior etc. The reason is because now with social media "influencers" are many trashy young and not so young people with money and lack of class.
demna does a lot of that for the memes we can agree
@@BraveNewWear yeah, i love demna tho its not a diss
@@eemilaatoswith their bad quality and mass produced product, only trend follower like you would like it.. 😂 Demna is a Rick Owens copycat
the devil is in the details. the devil wears prada …catch my drift?
good point
All these so-called "luxury" label are just exagerated designer label..
You and your existential fashion crises. There are only two types of clothes, the one you like and the one you don't like, it can be of better quality or of worse quality, it can be more expensive or cheaper. It would be better if you dedicate your energy to show in your videos clothing designs that you like.
i do like Acne Studios tho! And idk, while I wouldn't really consider myself a cultural critic, I think its worth my energy to explore ideas like this giving myself a fake crisis to talk about.
acne is meh
Bro gots acne
It’s not a luxury if you got it all over your face
balenciaga, gucci, and versace is the top garbage
Luxury is for poors
The people with real wealth never broadcast it
I can't wait until this phrase is dead
Mark Zuckerberg wore $500 tshirts
The people that are real millionaire and billionaire (specially old money families) wear real and very luxurious and very expensive brands that the majority of people don't know.
People like Mark Zuckerberg or Steve Jobs in the past are poor people that became very rich, new rich people without taste and careless about self image.
Dude is the Drew Gooden of fashion.
30% of the time people say I'm Drew, 70% of the time people say I'm steve buscemi,
@@BraveNewWear don’t worry. You make better fashion content than they do.