Yes there is. A skilled Gimbal operator will give way more fluid shots then any steadycam rig could ever do. the Steadycam isn't "Steady" it just smooths out all movements while the gimbal is rock steady in in those axis. If you throw on a 4th axis stabiliser on a gimbal you wouldnt even know the camera is moving..
Except every shot on the steadicam was tilted slightly and every Ronin shot was exactly lined up with the horizon. It made a big difference when walking through the trellises for example.
A 4th axis for vertical dampening so you eliminate bobbing of the device up and down with each step. Operators can use a steadicam vest and arm to hold the ronin to give it that 4th axis dampening.
@@DaRuckus Up and down movement. The Steadicam is superior. For one thing, you can do much longer shots! The one problem with the Steadicam is the pendulum movement, rocking back and forth. Steadicam has a new system that solves that. $6500 though.
I think everyone needs to bare in mind David is a Professional stedicam operator with 5 years under his belt! What Bart pulled out of the Ronin from just 2 months is pretty incredible, shows how good the ronin is really. Thanks for the video though so so so helpful
At first I couldn't figure out why I liked the Steadicam better, but it had a bit more smoothness. Then after viewing some other information I realized what it was. I think it's the vertical stabilization that the Steadicam has (spring load arms) which the 3-Axis Gimbal is missing. In any case that's my thinking. Thanks for the excellent video comparison! Dan
informative video. that Steadicam was very smooth with very natural movement. the Ronin was good as well, although it seemed to stray a bit more. I would take the Ronin for the convenience however. also, low angle running shots are possible with the Ronin.
When using a steadicam for low shots, you just turn the centre pole upside down with the camera at the bottom and the weights at the top. The Ronin would actually be harder to use for stuff like that, I reckon.
Both technologies were comparable, but I preferred the Steadicam for most of the shots. It has more of an organic feeling somehow. Where the Ronin clearly pulls ahead is in the orbit shot. Look at how it keeps the pole perpendicular to the frame, while the Steadicam tilts. For panning and tilting shots, the Ronin is the better choice.
I'm a Steadicam operator, and I've also used a Ronin. The Ronin seems much heavier and at arm's length that weight becomes a KILLER! A complex shot over several minutes (and that's the usual demand for a movement shot) becomes very challenging. Steadicam is regularly used for football matches (45mins non-stop), and with practice it becomes effortless.
Thanks for the comparison, really great work. I just love the steady cam operator, because his body language says that he is pretty much experienced in this work.
Well done guys, thank you for taking the time to make/post this video. You both did great with each of your systems. Our personal choice was for the Steadicam. The floating camera feel seemed to resonate with us a bit more. Dave did a great job pushing off the sled before walking thus keeping the system very stable. I would imagine you can do that with the Ronin but the further the unit gets away from the body the more taxing it is on the shoulders/arms. Thank you again, be blessed, Frederick
It would have been really interesting to see both operated by David. A lot of steadicam skills transfer well to brushless gimbals, so to see the same expertise in the driver's seat for both contraptions would make for a nice comparison of just the hardware itself. Great video, though.
Great test guys! All in all it looks like there's not a huge amount in it with the shots you did. I feel the Steadicam has the slight edge here, but even on the stairs the Ronin (and op!) did well with the vertical movement. Thanks for posting!
I immediately subscribed to your channel; if only other informational videos were so well done we could learn a lot more. First the introduction, very important and often quite neglected: you introduced yourself and you introduced the subject. The tests themselves: explained, and self explanatory - I could follow what was going on and from the samples easily make a comparison ( v. impressed with the Ronin!). Then the summary - a great comparison of the issues outside of the tests. And thank you for your personal remarks as well - quite insightful. Definitely considering the Ronin in my budget for next shoot.
You can tell that guy is a pro stedicam operator! Those shots are killer and brilliantly lit and framed. Although there isn't a huge difference in the stability I would still say the stedicam has to take the prize!
Thank you! I just started 3 years ago with filmmaking and I am currently using the exact same Ronin and camera-system like you guys. You completely explained my thoughts about gimbals and steadicam-work. I'd love to see more objective thoughts on UA-cam, especially from all the fanboys. For me I am a 100% FS700 and Ronin fanboy, but since I am also selling all this stuff I know the up- and downsides. I also loved that you guys mentioned also the need for a experienced gimbal-operator. There are too many people who think this is kind of a plug&play-device. Great work, keep it up!!
+larsgoldbachfoto Thank you! While I do own the Ronin, I knew the Steadicam is a better tool in certain situations and I wanted to make sure the video showed this without bias.
Having used both the Steadicam and Ronin systems, I'd have to say that Steadicam wins. They both take about the same time to set up and get properly balanced, but there are two points where the Steadicam comes out ahead. First is stamina. Because the vest and arm are taking so much of the weight of the rig and evenly distributing it about your body, you can really go all day (even more so if you're in shape). Because the Ronin requires you to (essentially) do calisthenics, that 10+ pound rig becomes like lifting a dead body VERY quickly. We did a simple walk and talk with it, going about 150 feet, and after every single shot we had to take a break. We did about 20 takes, had 2 operators and after only and hour and a half we were both super fatigued. Comparing that to a shoot we did (same op's) using the Steadicam, following a guy running up and down a Buddhist temple stairs and we went for 8 hours no problem. Only stopping to have lunch, I should add. Second is a bit more of an artistic choice, but if you watch any Ronin footage that isn't just a straight forward motion shot, you can notice the motorized adjusting happening. It is extremely obvious in some of the shots in this video even, but the larger the screen, the worse it becomes. I've had to scrap some really good takes acting-wise because the footage was too obvious that the adjustments were happening on the big screen. It also gets worse as your batteries get low, or if your arms are getting tired. This isn't to say you can't get good footage off a Ronin, because you obviously can, but here the big difference is the Steadicam, because the op is in 100% control of it (assuming they know what they're doing), is always smooth, even when making adjustments. Motors are stiff, skin is smooth.
This was like those trick colour/names puzzles where you have to tell which colour are you seeing while it spells a different colour. You're watching steadycam shots, while staring at the Ronin sign all the way. :) Anyway, for me it was steadycam all the way. But, having said that, I was really surprised how Ronin actually did very good in comparison. I bet to an average viewer it would be indistinguishable from the steadycam shots. And for a much lower price.
As an average viewer, I found the Steadicam footage slightly smoother. But when you consider the price difference plus the fact that the Steadicam operator had 5 years experience compared to a few months for the Ronin system, I have to say the Ronin is very impressive.
What a lot of you are not taking into account is the skill of the Steady Cam operator and the point of view or angles he selected within each of his shots. His angle was set higher while pointing downward on almost every shot with more distance from his subject and at a slower more controlled pace which allowed for more of the far ground to be seen as his subject walked.
A very good point. We could have tried to match our angles and lead or follow distance better to give a more accurate test. Notes to keep in mind for future testing!
+HamDerDanskeren yes but there are many reasons behind the price! I don't wanna seem like a blind fan Of Freefly system, but as owner Of a Mōvi m5 I can tell you that noting could actually compare a piece of gear like that. Check my Facebook.com/vmume Page and take a look at some of my videos :)
Thank you very much for taking the time to create this comparison. I know that it was a lot of work. With that said, I don't believe one is "better" than the other but rather each provide a different look. The Ronin seems to provide a more precise & clinical look whereas the Steadycam seems to provide a more organic look. (which I prefer) So depending on what look you are going for, one my be better suited for the task than the other.... Cheers, Greg
great video guys! i own both a Ronin and Steadicam Pilot. the Pilot is not near the rig that this guy uses plus this guy has skills that are very apparent and overall is more finessed than me but i don't suck either so my comments are coming from the POV as a person not of the skill level of this guy. the Ronin is very heavy and gets awkward with a 5-10 lb load for me and many others if you search the internet. still it gets you that very straight even look without a lot of practice as long as you get your camera and software tuned properly. the Steadicam on the other hand is a wonderful beast but really needs to be tamed to get good dynamic balance which is something this operator had solidly down. to get that solid (horizon) on a Steadicam you will work your ass off to achieve that in time and effort and lots of practice. on Steadicam I'm a good weekend warrior which suits me pretty good. as to weight...i can hold my Pilot rig with a 9 lb load for hours where the Ronin with a 9 lb camera would be impossible without pacing and breaks. another thing doing long shots (1 - 3 minutes) with the Ronin becomes more and more difficult where a Steadicam not really a problem. still I'm comparing a much lighter Steadicam rig compared to this guys. the main difference i see between the 2 systems is the Ronin gets you very straight and clean shots with not much technical effort needed to achieve where the Steadicam IMO is more expressive since its being guided by your fingers that can achieve nuances immediately where the Ronin is like driving an 18 wheeler semi where you don't turn on a dime. both systems are great. i tend to use my Ronin when i realize my skill level is not solid enough to achieve on the Steadicam (when need to keep a perfect horizon especially when doing "side" lateral shots) or at least quicker to get on the Ronin. i thought the Ronin might make me not want to use my Steadicam too much anymore but actually I've reverted to my Steadicam for a lot of shots that i had thought the Ronin would take over for. sorry for the rambling but just wanted to try and add to this video for people trying to figure out the differences between these 2 systems. thanks for the video!!
+formattester6 Thanks for the comments! I'm glad you enjoyed the video. Your thoughts are definitely appreciated. That is why we wanted to create this video. Your success with either system will vary depending on what system you have, what weight you have on it, and the experience of the operator. They both behave in very different ways to achieve a similar result, but there are indeed those differences you mentioned. The Ronin is a computer that is keeping your horizon level and is assisting with your movements. The steadicam is a much more operator driven system where movements are controlled by small finger movements of the operator. David is a fantastic steadicam operator, and I was happy to have him join me for this video! We are talking about some other videos we can do together in the future (wireless follow focus systems, segways, etc.)
Cool comparison. Each can tell your story equally well. If you're on a budget you go w/the cheaper option. If you've got long dough then you spend it with the most experienced operator you can find for whichever system they are best with.
Cool video guys...I own both and they each have their plusses and minuses as you mention. One annoying thing with the Ronin is that it's tough to quickly point the camera in the direction you want since you can't just turn it directly with your hands. And I always end up "overshooting" the target on fast pans with the Ronin. The Steadicam excels in this regard since you are controlling it's direction with your hand on the gimbal. Whereas the Ronin keeps the horizon level automatically (along with the other axes, which can be frustrating), it's quite hard to do that on the Steadicam for a new user (tilted horizons are tough to overcome!). Overall, I prefer the Steadicam for that direct control, but the Ronin works great for straight walking shots where fast pans or tilts are not needed.
Nice test, as I Steadicam operator myself I prefer the look of Steadicam but the electronic gimbals (EB) do have their place. One very visible difference is the height of the lens, where the Ronin is nearly always too low to be pretty. Specially with people you do NOT want to look into their nostrils and belly button or butt, you need to be shoulder height or higher, something that is really hard to do with most EB's. That means that - in my opinion- the best shots for an EB are children, dogs, scenery, anything low, Steadicam is more difficult or even sucks in that range. The absolute stiffness of the EB-image is an esthetic issue, some like it, some not. Safety: The EB's force the operator to look up in the sky, when shooting on normal heights, against the sun, bright backgrounds etc. Certainly not good for watching where you go, like on the stairs. I could see the uncertain footing when you went down the stairs with the Ronin! I have the Letus Helix myself, but have not really used it for any shoot until now. It does give some nice shots though, and when mounted (roll-axis only) on a Steadicam it can give an extra dimension like going from high to low or side to side and still level. So the EB's will have a good future ahead, but perform - for normal height shots - best in combination with a Steadicam. The incredible amount of extra accessories like exo-skeletons , easy rig like systems etc are fun but defeat the whole idea of the EB, and give basically an enormous amount of extra junk to take care of, without giving much more possibilities on the camera side as the weight range is still the same and IMO too low. Plus in many cases you suddenly need a 2 operator control.
I've flown the Ronin up-side-down. You can simply twist it up-side-down (slowly) and it will re-orient itself in that way. That being said I prefer the steadicam most of the time as I can do everything myself (unless the shot requires a wireless follow focus operator).
Very professional, thank you both! Well, you both are the winners in my eyes as you did a great job answering my questions. As you said, it all depends on the case, I would need both systems to be on the safe side! :)) All the best!
Awesome! The only difference to me was the quality of the cameras and in the orbiting test where the Ronin seemed a little shacky than the steadicam, although it seems that the 5 years of the Steadicam's operator counts against the 2 months of experience of the Ronin's operator.
The difference in the image appearance is simply due to the light changing as it became later in the day. The exact same camera and lens was used on both tests.
+Bart Johnson Productions Cool it seemed like it was a different cam initilly and subliminally i think you wanted us to love the Steadicam more! Which I did. Good vid. thnx
+Jefferson Pfeifer And one more thing: Steadicam is easier to boom up and to keep eye-level POV of walking man. Anyways, Ronin will do the same in combination with Easyrig.
Just the comparison I’ve been looking for purely out of curiosity. Nothing beats the steadicam /body vest combo, but I must admit my Ronin-M is serving me well. Keep up the great works guys 👌🏽
I am an old school guy...I have worked on numerous projects in the days of VHS & I have produced & directed videos that were shown on regional TV in the St. Louis area...I have been out of the loop for awhile but my passion for video/film has always been with me & I am currently networking to find the right people for my ultimate dream of making a feature movie in either film or video...I was blown away by your knowledge of the tech now out there & since really starting starting to think seriously about my dream I would love to hook up with you guys to help me realize it...I am on FB if you would be interested in hearing about what I have done in the past...in the meantime I will subscribe as you both have a way of making something complicated a bit more understandable to myself a guy who is almost 67 years old.
Thanks for doing this, you guys. I know this will probably sound weird, but the steadicam felt more "organic," which I liked better. Does that make sense? Probably because it relies totally on the operator. I did want to know one thing, since the Ronin uses motors constantly balancing the thing, is there an issue with sound during dialogue takes?
+Silvie Monk The steadicam does have a more fluid and organic movement that lends to its signature look. Many do prefer this. In terms of the Ronin motors, they are nearly silent. If you balance the camera properly before using it, the motors will not be working very hard and you will not hear them.
This is a really well done comparison. I'm a steadicam operator and wondered how well the three axis gimbals worked. You definitely get more of a floating feel with the steadicam where the Ronin looks lie a really steady hand held shot. The steadicam seems more forgiving if the talent makes an unexpected quick move. And the weight is a real issue, both for the operator and for the rig. I've had to do four-minute takes on a steadicam (which killed me). I can't imaging holding the Ronin rig for that long. And the capacity of the steadicam is obviously more. You can have a fully loaded down Alexa, RED, or even film camera (remember those?) with no issues on the steadicam. I'm not sure you could even mount a loaded full-sized camera on a Ronin. Would it even fit? But for lightweight cameras and low budget simple moves you can't beat the quality for the price point. Nice job guys! It would have been nice for you to offer some situations where the Ronan has an advantage... One I can think of is in the water. You can't operate a steadicam waist deep in water.
I think the Steadycam was "steadier". Having said that, was it thousands or tens of thousands of dollars "steadier"? That's up to each of us to decide. Conclusion: You can learn to be smooth with a stabilizer much faster than a SC, but you will never get as smooth. If the difference is worth the money, go SC. For most of us it is not. Fantastic video guys!!!!!!
Steadicam more consistent and natural. I’ve never used a Ronin and before this video I’ve heard it is the cream of the crop, but from this video demonstration I now see that the Steadicam has the advantage in most situations. Thank you so much for this very informative video.
+AHMED LENS Steadicam does have that organic fluid feel to it. The motorized gimbal is more about precision. That was why I wanted to do the test. Even though I own the Ronin, I would still consider purchasing a small Steadicam rig as well if I had the money. Different systems for different jobs.
Steadicam def. looks smoother. But if you are shooting low budget, none scripted run and gun. Gimbal might be more pleasant to use. Thanks for doing the test guys!
You guys did a really nice job on this comparison. For most of the shots I liked the Steadicam best, but I did think that the Ronin was smoother on the stairs shot.
Hi guys, freaking awesome comparison! Thank you. I have a smaller steadycam myself and use it way to seldom. So watching David perform with the big rig made me jealous - skillful guy! And for the resulting work, I think the Ronin did surprisingly well, even though the super smooth performance from David and the Steadicam was on the top. Thanks again!
The walk and talk type of tests I actually liked the Ronin and the Orbiting test I liked the Steadicam. I thought it was going to be the other way around before picking. The Ronin had a Jello like floating feel to it compare to the steadicam, but it could also be based on the cam ops. Eitherway I cant afford either one lol.
I think that although these 2 guys did an amazing job at showing us this comparison, this isn't a real life situation. For instance, when you are shooting drama, you start your move on a particular line (dialogue). Then you stop and follow the motion down of a character who sits, turns and delivers a line to someone who previously was out of frame but now becomes the focus of the framing over the previous actor's shoulder. Then you go with this new focus of attention towards another room, through a door frame. And so on. Blocking, choreographing, is way more than following, leading, orbiting. It's all that on cue, going from one character to another, nailing each actor on his line, an so on. Of course these 2 great guys can't do that type of comparison for obvious reason (who would pay for all that??). However, if they were to do it, we could really appreciate the considerable superiority of steadycam over gimbal.
Bart Great segment. I really enjoyed it. I am getting ready to buy a Ronin for my C300 so I am doing my research. I read all the comments. Let's compare apple to apple guys. David has 5 years of experience, and he is using a lot more expensive setup to get those shots. Bart has had the Ronin only for 2 months, and I think for that little amount of time, the footage looked amazing. Also, the Ronin set up cost a hell of lot less than what David was operating. Now, if you have the studio budget, then get a very experienced Steadycam operator with the full setup, no problem. BUT, for most indy filmmaker, where finance is critical, the Ronin more than does the job for very little money. Great job both guys, but it's not totally an apple to apple comparison. Let's keep the cost of the gear in mind. I am open to what others have to say about this. Thanks.
Great video guys!! Enjoyed the video. Steadicam seem more natural and smoother but on certain shots Gimbal looked better. Thanks for this detailed video!
the ronin does what a dolly should be doing, which is a rigid but steady movement of the camera, the steady cam has a more organic feel which is more visually pleasing to me at least
Thanks for the review guys. The most notable difference I saw wasnt mentioned in the conclusion on the video... the operators line of sight! Watch the Ronin operator struggling to look up at the monitor and then down at the stairs to see where he was walking, whereas the stedicam operator's monitor is already positioned in the same line of sight to where he was walking & can therefore use his peripheral vision to walk around obstacles. The position of the monitor on the stedicam saves having to keep track of both the monitor and obstacles like the stairs. ...But the main reason I would prefer the stedicam is that it frees up your hands and arms much more - you dont have to put down the camera every time you have a drink. ;)
+jeremie kerridge Those are some very good points. I did not even consider that. An option would have been for me to run the Ronin inverted and have the monitor down low in my line of sight of the stairs and my feet.
so Steadicam has a small leaning movement during motion vs Ronin having a side to side push (horizontally) which is much stepper. Not sure if it's from electronics or technique but I prefer the steadicam smooth leaning vs horizontal pulsation
Out of curiosity why didn't the Steadicam op go in Don Juan for the lead shot? There wasn't really any need to go backwards Missionary on that one, or am I missing something? Personal preference perhaps? Good video comparison! They were both close, but I think there is a rare time that a Steadicam won't have the advantage over a 3-axis gimbal. Not only is it much less strenuous to operate, but the control over both up/down and side-to-side movements really make the Steadicam a winner. I don't see it going away any time soon!
Most steadicam operators prefer walking backwards in missionary rather than shooting Don Juan. This is something I discovered on a posting on the Steadicam Forum website very recently. I was shooting a scene last week on Steadicam and the first take I filmed was walking backwards and repeated it for 3 takes but the shots were a bit ropey. I was walking backwards along a country path, downhill on uneven ground and had someone spotting me but still, the shot wasn't up to scratch. I switched to Don Juan and Boom; nailed it in one. The thing is, up until that point I'd only ever practiced Don Juan and never used it on a job. I was very relieved on the outcome to be sure!!
Excellent comparison. Used a ronin for the first time the other night for a shoot and I agree with everything you guys mentioned. ( my arms were tired )
Great video guys!! I guess the hand or proper movement of the operator, equilibrium etc can influence at final. For me there are a noticeable difference, producing smoother movements the steady cam...and so I think it´s no the same when your entire body is the mass support instead the hands...The hands ever are shaky. It´s my opinion. I´m open to others because I`m starting with Ronin MX. Your opinions maybe some help for me.
I keep reading in the comments that the Steadicam is better, but honestly, I can't see the difference. I was watching for straight lines in the background -- the railing for instance. That is a good way to see less then steady footage. They look so similar I could not tell the difference. I think it is a tie for footage. I think it comes down to price and ease of operation (ease of operation is both how quickly can you pick it up and get good with the tool and how difficult is it to operate the tool day long without getting tired.
Would be interesting to see if the comments would have been the same if the footage was made as a blind test instead of labeling them. And the camera on the Ronin was not properly exposed either, which I believe also makes a difference when you judge, unconsciously.
Thanks for the great test! Seems like an additional test with various rigs for holding the Ronin is warranted... ReadyRig GS, Armor-man 2, and the soon-to-ship SteadiCam SteadiMate. Then your gimbal has a bit more 4th axis stabilization and can be worn all day.
To me both- steadicam and the gimal are good stabalizing systems. But! They are different and both are good in particular situations. And there is one very big difference between steadi and gimbal- for good steadicam shot you need a loooot of skill.
Soul Stuff Library We think you said it all and we have the same opinion. The people who's thinking to buy one of these pieces, must see first what will be actual use :)
Big difference for me is the ability to carry the camera for long, long takes. I just can't hold my Crane a long time. Plus, multiple takes? Forget it.
I almost feel like the Ronin does way better at keeping the camera completely stable, but that is the ultimate downside to brushless gimbals. It is almost too good at it. There is something about the steadicam and how it naturally sways. When you take that away, in my opinion, it looks a little strange and unnatural. I think that computerized gimbals should be controlled with a computerized interface, such as on multirotors, and steadicams work better when operated directly. Does that make sense?
+Caleb Nehrbass Makes sense and is definitely true. One of the reasons I purchased the Ronin was not only to operate it handheld, but also to use it with the remote as a motorized head on my Kessler Crane. Two birds with one stone!
Thanks very much for doing this test and publishing it. I disagree with many of those who think the Steadicam is better or smoother, but full-disclosure, I own a Movi M15. I expected the Steadicam to really obviously outperform the Ronin on some tests, but I found them both fairly even, with maybe a few minor differences that would be present in any two different operators. I can see more horizon 'rolling' on the Steadicam shots, especially in the Faster Following test and the Stairs. The Ronin corrected that rolling movement better, maybe too perfectly. I was impressed by your Corner turn on the Ronin, too -- thought the Steadicam would be much better but the Ronin did a great job. The Circle-Around test was better on the Steadicam, but only by a little, and mainly because it was a better tilt-down from the flag pole. I typically require my Steadicam Ops to have a minimum of 5 years' experience, because it's all in the skill of the operator. The Ronin took you a few months to get to the experience level of the Steadicam operator, and cost much less. My Movi took a week or so to get used to, mainly for technical and balancing reasons, and I was so impressed by how quickly I could get the hang of operating it. Great job on the presentation, Bart and David!
thanks for this test comparison. I actually agree. - Steadycam with proffesional operator feels more natural and steady. but still they are both pretty close. but every single time compared - i found steadycam more "fluid" look. very nice comparison folks. thanks!
So we're comparing a heavy worn-in $10,000+ custom Steadicam rig with support vest and a pro operator against a ~$2,000 Ronin? For the same price you bet anyone would go for the Steadicam option! The Ronin was not designed to compete against that particular price range.
+Marina Vieira I would love to be your friend and shoot with you sometime! I always love meeting new people. I actually did some shooting in Brazil in Rio a few years ago. I had a great time!
Great job explaining how they work and the pros and cons of each setup. I wonder if people are biased in judging the Ronin poorly since they are so used to Steadicam footage. I bet if you were to use the same actor in each shot and asked people to judge which they liked better, setup A or setup B and not tell people which is which, they would not really know. Might be worth a test.
My take on it is greed. Its so needed in the film industry and they know this. Of course material plays a role in it. I've seen fishing wire,.... one strand holds 10 pounds of presure wheeling in 735 lbs fish,.... How is it that these steadicam prices vary depending on the weight of your camera? IT IS VERY irritating why dont they make the spring adjustable like they do in luxury sports cars where it can be loosened or tightened? I have the steadicam rid but it kills me knowing there are bikes out there lighter and more material than the steadicam and yet the rig is thousands. (SIGH) I compare this to the movie slate,..... when you have a great idea and monopolize,... you can charge high and call it the standard. Maybe Im bitter hahahah I have two Would love invent a better one that allows students to purchase and just be creative
Its both the elitism of the industry and the demand for steadicam rigs in the world. Since the demand is very limited to the industry, the supply can also be very limited which can make prices go up. I could build a system like this for $1200 with 8208 motors, an Alexmos PID controller, and carbon fiber sheet/tube for the gimbal and steel box for a 4th axis stabilizer, but it will take a couple of weeks to build, design, and assemble the whole thing which as an independent builder I will charge a lot for. It's not because I'm greedy, but its because the purchaser needs the tool and I'm the only person in the situation that has the skills to build the system, my exclusivity and time costs money too. Products cost as much as people are willing to spend on it, and people are willing to spend bank for heavy duty stabilizers that at the end of the day support $80k cameras and multi-million dollar films.
Nick Ortiz hey there. Hope all is well. You almost had me there. 👋😂👍at hello. I get what you are saying. Note: you said you can produce $1200,.... i agree with you. Now we have machine that make the production spit 100's of these per hour,....(pause) one person quality control parts and one on assembly just QC. Where does $10,000 plus come in for ONE STEADYCAM? Mind you,... (bicycle) the cheapest bike or the lightest in weight,...... is able to hold what???? How much weight? Ohhhhhh😲 between 5 lbs to 300plus lbs of HUMAN BODY. You mean to tell me,,....... that steadicam is going to hide behind that same line,.."Well you want your $140,000 camera supported and safe right?" No way buddy? Bullet proof vests and pro rock climbing vest deal with the human body weight and dont cost even a fraction of a steadiCam rig. Trust me. I would love to support you in your rig making at 1200 because i trust you more Than some INDUSTRY telling me about the safety of my 140g camera need a 15,000 rid to hold up 20-40 pound camera. 👋😎👍 and Nick,... FYI the above is not arguing. I know text people feel it in the way they read it. I'm completely happy. Wealthy and just arguing from a WTH are we doing in humanity point. I'll say this before i go. The difference between a video camera and a camera is on takes STILL IMAGES and the other takes Multiple pictures and sound. WHY DONT they make the videocameras today take stills??? Hmmmmmmmm. GREED!!!! They cant give you all in one!😂😂😂😂 the DSLR's shutter noises out the ______ss. Just because. We dont want you filming movies with it. Go back and buy our video camera.
Great Video🙌🏿 but I think both systems were great... We own the Ronin-M and love it for our Canon 5D Mark III (had it for a 1 month still need plenty of practice). But I think the operator of the steadycam was more experienced hence the reason why I liked the Steadycam footage so much over the Ronin in this vid👍
Appreciate your time and effort in making this video! I don't think there's any substitute to a Steadicam out there. There are newer devices which might address the purpose, but it is finally one' preference; considering the cost and other factors into consideration. It's an impeccable invention of physics. Steadicam is more human and natural whereas Ronin seems to be stiffer and very electronicy. (Sort of like a hand-made bespoke shoe vs a production made shoe) Ronin might be lighter, but it might be a pain for your arms in relation to the fly time. Steadicam is heavier, but it distributes the wait to your back and legs; if correct posture is maintained + PRACTICE. There are several factors also and this can go on... :) Well, nothing like Steadicam and there won't be any. Thanks to *Garret Brown*
the color/dynamic range on steadycam shot appears to be better which makes it odd since it was shot with the same camera. what could have caused the differences？is it due the angle height of the shot? steadycam shots were at a slightly lower angle in these shots as it were shown in the video.
It could be because we shot all of the steadicam first and then the Ronin later. As the sun went down we needed to adjust the camera to try and retain a similar look. We probably didn't get the exposure exact and that could be the difference with the crushed blacks and color difference.
I have the Ronin M, and you do have control of the vertical movement, its through the " DJI Assist " app and its al controlled through the " tilt " motors. iv done some videos with mine, and though adjusting the " deadhand " and the stiffness, and " roll " you can go up steps and it looks like its gliding. the biggest thing with the Ronin M is that you need to re-learn how to walk, and run, to take the bounce out of your steps to give you that free, smooth, and free glide look at higher speeds. its much simpler to adjust the Ronin M than you would think. I love it, and I am revamping my entire business, and youtube channel because of owning the Ronin M now.
Tilt control is not the same as the virtual movement I am referring to. The Ronin M is still a 3-axis gimbal only. Yaw, tilt, and roll. It does not compensate for direct vertical motion like a steadicam does. There are plenty of accessories that turn the Ronins into 4 axis gimbals now. When you are walking carefully and compensating wit your arms, your body is stabilizing the 4th vertical axis.
We actually did that! After we shot these tests we put the ronin on the steadicam arm and mounted the whole thing to a Segway. You can see it here: ua-cam.com/video/w06u-y7ag-4/v-deo.html
I Like them both. glide cam wins obviously, due to the 4th access, resulting in overall butter smoothness. Great job guys, your test was right on point.
One more important thing is age, for me being an older person, weight distributed through the steadicam is much easier than using my arms, your test results are great ! because both of you have plenty of experience on using them, also correct in saying that what ever unit you use, practice practice practice..Again, great shootout guys.
i think the steadicam was slightly better but both systems work great. i have no clue how hard it is to operate a ronin, but i do have a clue how hard it is to operate a full steadicam rig with arm and vest and what i want to say is that David is a very good steadycam operator. i personally would hire him for what ever steadicam job right away. Well maybe not for football (soccer) running the side line ;-) you both did great, highly appreciated.
+Torsten Neuendorf Exactly... it would have been tricky enough to see anyone compete against a pro operator with the same rig, let alone an electronic gimbal. I don't see anything beating a good Steadicam and talented flyer for many years to come. There is a reason good money is spent on them.
the steadicam operator did very good job, theres no way a gimbal can replace a skilled operator
Yes there is. A skilled Gimbal operator will give way more fluid shots then any steadycam rig could ever do. the Steadycam isn't "Steady" it just smooths out all movements while the gimbal is rock steady in in those axis. If you throw on a 4th axis stabiliser on a gimbal you wouldnt even know the camera is moving..
4th axis for what exactly?
Except every shot on the steadicam was tilted slightly and every Ronin shot was exactly lined up with the horizon. It made a big difference when walking through the trellises for example.
A 4th axis for vertical dampening so you eliminate bobbing of the device up and down with each step. Operators can use a steadicam vest and arm to hold the ronin to give it that 4th axis dampening.
@@DaRuckus Up and down movement. The Steadicam is superior. For one thing, you can do much longer shots! The one problem with the Steadicam is the pendulum movement, rocking back and forth. Steadicam has a new system that solves that. $6500 though.
I use brushless gimbals - but I have to say - there is something organic about footage from the steadicam.....
I like the steadicam more, it gives a natural feeling and it looks more spontanious!
I think everyone needs to bare in mind David is a Professional stedicam operator with 5 years under his belt! What Bart pulled out of the Ronin from just 2 months is pretty incredible, shows how good the ronin is really. Thanks for the video though so so so helpful
+Austen Lane I am glad the video helped!
True. But the Crane I have takes a lot of practice too.
steadicam is... better! but wait, operator matters! )))
So true, the walking technique of the Steadicam operator was way better.
Im always going to prefer Steadicam.
At first I couldn't figure out why I liked the Steadicam better, but it had a bit more smoothness. Then after viewing some other information I realized what it was. I think it's the vertical stabilization that the Steadicam has (spring load arms) which the 3-Axis Gimbal is missing. In any case that's my thinking.
Thanks for the excellent video comparison!
Dan
informative video. that Steadicam was very smooth with very natural movement. the Ronin was good as well, although it seemed to stray a bit more. I would take the Ronin for the convenience however. also, low angle running shots are possible with the Ronin.
i dont think so
When using a steadicam for low shots, you just turn the centre pole upside down with the camera at the bottom and the weights at the top. The Ronin would actually be harder to use for stuff like that, I reckon.
Great job guys! Fantastic side-by-side comparison! Thanks for taking the time to do this.
Both technologies were comparable, but I preferred the Steadicam for most of the shots. It has more of an organic feeling somehow. Where the Ronin clearly pulls ahead is in the orbit shot. Look at how it keeps the pole perpendicular to the frame, while the Steadicam tilts. For panning and tilting shots, the Ronin is the better choice.
I like David Aronsons quiet confidence at the intro, what a pro, and great operating, super smooth and natural looking
Absolutely
I'm a Steadicam operator, and I've also used a Ronin. The Ronin seems much heavier and at arm's length that weight becomes a KILLER! A complex shot over several minutes (and that's the usual demand for a movement shot) becomes very challenging. Steadicam is regularly used for football matches (45mins non-stop), and with practice it becomes effortless.
Thanks for the comparison, really great work. I just love the steady cam operator, because his body language says that he is pretty much experienced in this work.
I'm 3 years late to the party but the Steadicam is definitely a step up in this comparison. Extremely smooth.
Well done guys, thank you for taking the time to make/post this video. You both did great with each of your systems. Our personal choice was for the Steadicam. The floating camera feel seemed to resonate with us a bit more. Dave did a great job pushing off the sled before walking thus keeping the system very stable. I would imagine you can do that with the Ronin but the further the unit gets away from the body the more taxing it is on the shoulders/arms. Thank you again, be blessed, Frederick
It would have been really interesting to see both operated by David. A lot of steadicam skills transfer well to brushless gimbals, so to see the same expertise in the driver's seat for both contraptions would make for a nice comparison of just the hardware itself. Great video, though.
Great test guys! All in all it looks like there's not a huge amount in it with the shots you did. I feel the Steadicam has the slight edge here, but even on the stairs the Ronin (and op!) did well with the vertical movement. Thanks for posting!
I immediately subscribed to your channel; if only other informational videos were so well done we could learn a lot more. First the introduction, very important and often quite neglected: you introduced yourself and you introduced the subject. The tests themselves: explained, and self explanatory - I could follow what was going on and from the samples easily make a comparison ( v. impressed with the Ronin!). Then the summary - a great comparison of the issues outside of the tests. And thank you for your personal remarks as well - quite insightful. Definitely considering the Ronin in my budget for next shoot.
Thank you! I hope to keep bringing quality videos to my channel to share with everyone.
Well said Joe; I was impressed with one of Bart's drone videos and knew right away that I liked his style and presentation (and told him so).
You can tell that guy is a pro stedicam operator! Those shots are killer and brilliantly lit and framed. Although there isn't a huge difference in the stability I would still say the stedicam has to take the prize!
Great comparison guys. Very useful info :-)
I love ❤️ the steadicam movement! Wow! What a difference a good operator makes!!
The steadicam footage just looks so goddamn organic!
Thank you! I just started 3 years ago with filmmaking and I am currently using the exact same Ronin and camera-system like you guys.
You completely explained my thoughts about gimbals and steadicam-work.
I'd love to see more objective thoughts on UA-cam, especially from all the fanboys.
For me I am a 100% FS700 and Ronin fanboy, but since I am also selling all this stuff I know the up- and downsides.
I also loved that you guys mentioned also the need for a experienced gimbal-operator. There are too many people who think this is kind of a plug&play-device.
Great work, keep it up!!
+larsgoldbachfoto Thank you! While I do own the Ronin, I knew the Steadicam is a better tool in certain situations and I wanted to make sure the video showed this without bias.
EXCELLENT - EXCELLENT video guys - I learned a lot! Great Job! Thank you!! Shared on FB.
Thank you!
Super cool! Never seen a A vs B comparison between the old school steadicams/glidecams vs the new gimbals.
Having used both the Steadicam and Ronin systems, I'd have to say that Steadicam wins. They both take about the same time to set up and get properly balanced, but there are two points where the Steadicam comes out ahead.
First is stamina. Because the vest and arm are taking so much of the weight of the rig and evenly distributing it about your body, you can really go all day (even more so if you're in shape). Because the Ronin requires you to (essentially) do calisthenics, that 10+ pound rig becomes like lifting a dead body VERY quickly. We did a simple walk and talk with it, going about 150 feet, and after every single shot we had to take a break. We did about 20 takes, had 2 operators and after only and hour and a half we were both super fatigued. Comparing that to a shoot we did (same op's) using the Steadicam, following a guy running up and down a Buddhist temple stairs and we went for 8 hours no problem. Only stopping to have lunch, I should add.
Second is a bit more of an artistic choice, but if you watch any Ronin footage that isn't just a straight forward motion shot, you can notice the motorized adjusting happening. It is extremely obvious in some of the shots in this video even, but the larger the screen, the worse it becomes. I've had to scrap some really good takes acting-wise because the footage was too obvious that the adjustments were happening on the big screen. It also gets worse as your batteries get low, or if your arms are getting tired. This isn't to say you can't get good footage off a Ronin, because you obviously can, but here the big difference is the Steadicam, because the op is in 100% control of it (assuming they know what they're doing), is always smooth, even when making adjustments. Motors are stiff, skin is smooth.
Good test dudes! Thanks!
This was like those trick colour/names puzzles where you have to tell which colour are you seeing while it spells a different colour. You're watching steadycam shots, while staring at the Ronin sign all the way. :)
Anyway, for me it was steadycam all the way. But, having said that, I was really surprised how Ronin actually did very good in comparison. I bet to an average viewer it would be indistinguishable from the steadycam shots. And for a much lower price.
Good point! In hindsight, I wish I hadn't worn the shirt because it gets confusing!
As an average viewer, I found the Steadicam footage slightly smoother. But when you consider the price difference plus the fact that the Steadicam operator had 5 years experience compared to a few months for the Ronin system, I have to say the Ronin is very impressive.
ovo nisamja I
What a lot of you are not taking into account is the skill of the Steady Cam operator and the point of view or angles he selected within each of his shots. His angle was set higher while pointing downward on almost every shot with more distance from his subject and at a slower more controlled pace which allowed for more of the far ground to be seen as his subject walked.
A very good point. We could have tried to match our angles and lead or follow distance better to give a more accurate test. Notes to keep in mind for future testing!
The Ronin's footage is so robotic looking, im not a fan
+HamDerDanskeren Nice comparison but you really notice the electronic look in the stairs and in the orbit...
Yep, the steadicam might be hard to control, but the practice might be well worth it
+HamDerDanskeren Agree! You guys should take a look at the Freefly MOVI
+Filippo Cinotti The problem with the MOVI is the price compared to the ronin :(
+HamDerDanskeren yes but there are many reasons behind the price! I don't wanna seem like a blind fan Of Freefly system, but as owner Of a Mōvi m5 I can tell you that noting could actually compare a piece of gear like that. Check my Facebook.com/vmume Page and take a look at some of my videos :)
Thank you very much for taking the time to create this comparison. I know that it was a lot of work. With that said, I don't believe one is "better" than the other but rather each provide a different look. The Ronin seems to provide a more precise & clinical look whereas the Steadycam seems to provide a more organic look. (which I prefer) So depending on what look you are going for, one my be better suited for the task than the other....
Cheers,
Greg
great video guys! i own both a Ronin and Steadicam Pilot. the Pilot is not near the rig that this guy uses plus this guy has skills that are very apparent and overall is more finessed than me but i don't suck either so my comments are coming from the POV as a person not of the skill level of this guy. the Ronin is very heavy and gets awkward with a 5-10 lb load for me and many others if you search the internet. still it gets you that very straight even look without a lot of practice as long as you get your camera and software tuned properly. the Steadicam on the other hand is a wonderful beast but really needs to be tamed to get good dynamic balance which is something this operator had solidly down. to get that solid (horizon) on a Steadicam you will work your ass off to achieve that in time and effort and lots of practice. on Steadicam I'm a good weekend warrior which suits me pretty good. as to weight...i can hold my Pilot rig with a 9 lb load for hours where the Ronin with a 9 lb camera would be impossible without pacing and breaks. another thing doing long shots (1 - 3 minutes) with the Ronin becomes more and more difficult where a Steadicam not really a problem. still I'm comparing a much lighter Steadicam rig compared to this guys. the main difference i see between the 2 systems is the Ronin gets you very straight and clean shots with not much technical effort needed to achieve where the Steadicam IMO is more expressive since its being guided by your fingers that can achieve nuances immediately where the Ronin is like driving an 18 wheeler semi where you don't turn on a dime. both systems are great. i tend to use my Ronin when i realize my skill level is not solid enough to achieve on the Steadicam (when need to keep a perfect horizon especially when doing "side" lateral shots) or at least quicker to get on the Ronin. i thought the Ronin might make me not want to use my Steadicam too much anymore but actually I've reverted to my Steadicam for a lot of shots that i had thought the Ronin would take over for. sorry for the rambling but just wanted to try and add to this video for people trying to figure out the differences between these 2 systems. thanks for the video!!
+formattester6 Thanks for the comments! I'm glad you enjoyed the video. Your thoughts are definitely appreciated. That is why we wanted to create this video. Your success with either system will vary depending on what system you have, what weight you have on it, and the experience of the operator. They both behave in very different ways to achieve a similar result, but there are indeed those differences you mentioned. The Ronin is a computer that is keeping your horizon level and is assisting with your movements. The steadicam is a much more operator driven system where movements are controlled by small finger movements of the operator. David is a fantastic steadicam operator, and I was happy to have him join me for this video! We are talking about some other videos we can do together in the future (wireless follow focus systems, segways, etc.)
Cool comparison. Each can tell your story equally well. If you're on a budget you go w/the cheaper option. If you've got long dough then you spend it with the most experienced operator you can find for whichever system they are best with.
Cool video guys...I own both and they each have their plusses and minuses as you mention. One annoying thing with the Ronin is that it's tough to quickly point the camera in the direction you want since you can't just turn it directly with your hands. And I always end up "overshooting" the target on fast pans with the Ronin. The Steadicam excels in this regard since you are controlling it's direction with your hand on the gimbal. Whereas the Ronin keeps the horizon level automatically (along with the other axes, which can be frustrating), it's quite hard to do that on the Steadicam for a new user (tilted horizons are tough to overcome!). Overall, I prefer the Steadicam for that direct control, but the Ronin works great for straight walking shots where fast pans or tilts are not needed.
+Matt Hoover very well summed up! completely agree
+musicgroups do you do a vest arm setup? I'm interested to see how that works for longer gimbal shots.
You didnt have to share this with us, but you did -- and I'm grateful. Thank you!
Nice test, as I Steadicam operator myself I prefer the look of Steadicam but the electronic gimbals (EB) do have their place.
One very visible difference is the height of the lens, where the Ronin is nearly always too low to be pretty.
Specially with people you do NOT want to look into their nostrils and belly button or butt, you need to be shoulder height or higher, something that is really hard to do with most EB's.
That means that - in my opinion- the best shots for an EB are children, dogs, scenery, anything low, Steadicam is more difficult or even sucks in that range.
The absolute stiffness of the EB-image is an esthetic issue, some like it, some not.
Safety: The EB's force the operator to look up in the sky, when shooting on normal heights, against the sun, bright backgrounds etc. Certainly not good for watching where you go, like on the stairs. I could see the uncertain footing when you went down the stairs with the Ronin!
I have the Letus Helix myself, but have not really used it for any shoot until now. It does give some nice shots though, and when mounted (roll-axis only) on a Steadicam it can give an extra dimension like going from high to low or side to side and still level.
So the EB's will have a good future ahead, but perform - for normal height shots - best in combination with a Steadicam.
The incredible amount of extra accessories like exo-skeletons , easy rig like systems etc are fun but defeat the whole idea of the EB, and give basically an enormous amount of extra junk to take care of, without giving much more possibilities on the camera side as the weight range is still the same and IMO too low. Plus in many cases you suddenly need a 2 operator control.
I've flown the Ronin up-side-down. You can simply twist it up-side-down (slowly) and it will re-orient itself in that way. That being said I prefer the steadicam most of the time as I can do everything myself (unless the shot requires a wireless follow focus operator).
Very professional, thank you both! Well, you both are the winners in my eyes as you did a great job answering my questions. As you said, it all depends on the case, I would need both systems to be on the safe side! :)) All the best!
Thank you very much! I will pass along your comments to David as well.
Awesome! The only difference to me was the quality of the cameras and in the orbiting test where the Ronin seemed a little shacky than the steadicam, although it seems that the 5 years of the Steadicam's operator counts against the 2 months of experience of the Ronin's operator.
The difference in the image appearance is simply due to the light changing as it became later in the day. The exact same camera and lens was used on both tests.
+Bart Johnson Productions Therefore, no difference.
+Bart Johnson Productions Cool it seemed like it was a different cam initilly and subliminally i think you wanted us to love the Steadicam more! Which I did. Good vid. thnx
+Jefferson Pfeifer And one more thing: Steadicam is easier to boom up and to keep eye-level POV of walking man. Anyways, Ronin will do the same in combination with Easyrig.
Just the comparison I’ve been looking for purely out of curiosity. Nothing beats the steadicam /body vest combo, but I must admit my Ronin-M is serving me well. Keep up the great works guys 👌🏽
I am an old school guy...I have worked on numerous projects in the days of VHS & I have produced & directed videos that were shown on regional TV in the St. Louis area...I have been out of the loop for awhile but my passion for video/film has always been with me & I am currently networking to find the right people for my ultimate dream of making a feature movie in either film or video...I was blown away by your knowledge of the tech now out there & since really starting starting to think seriously about my dream I would love to hook up with you guys to help me realize it...I am on FB if you would be interested in hearing about what I have done in the past...in the meantime I will subscribe as you both have a way of making something complicated a bit more understandable to myself a guy who is almost 67 years old.
Very cool review, thanks for the work guys! Helped give me a better idea of what I can do with each.
Thanks for doing this, you guys. I know this will probably sound weird, but the steadicam felt more "organic," which I liked better. Does that make sense? Probably because it relies totally on the operator. I did want to know one thing, since the Ronin uses motors constantly balancing the thing, is there an issue with sound during dialogue takes?
+Silvie Monk The steadicam does have a more fluid and organic movement that lends to its signature look. Many do prefer this. In terms of the Ronin motors, they are nearly silent. If you balance the camera properly before using it, the motors will not be working very hard and you will not hear them.
Bart Johnson Productions Thanks so much. I have had a hard time getting an answer to the noise question.
This is a really well done comparison. I'm a steadicam operator and wondered how well the three axis gimbals worked. You definitely get more of a floating feel with the steadicam where the Ronin looks lie a really steady hand held shot. The steadicam seems more forgiving if the talent makes an unexpected quick move. And the weight is a real issue, both for the operator and for the rig. I've had to do four-minute takes on a steadicam (which killed me). I can't imaging holding the Ronin rig for that long. And the capacity of the steadicam is obviously more. You can have a fully loaded down Alexa, RED, or even film camera (remember those?) with no issues on the steadicam. I'm not sure you could even mount a loaded full-sized camera on a Ronin. Would it even fit? But for lightweight cameras and low budget simple moves you can't beat the quality for the price point. Nice job guys! It would have been nice for you to offer some situations where the Ronan has an advantage... One I can think of is in the water. You can't operate a steadicam waist deep in water.
I think the Steadycam was "steadier". Having said that, was it thousands or tens of thousands of dollars "steadier"? That's up to each of us to decide. Conclusion: You can learn to be smooth with a stabilizer much faster than a SC, but you will never get as smooth. If the difference is worth the money, go SC. For most of us it is not. Fantastic video guys!!!!!!
Steadicam more consistent and natural. I’ve never used a Ronin and before this video I’ve heard it is the cream of the crop, but from this video demonstration I now see that the Steadicam has the advantage in most situations. Thank you so much for this very informative video.
thanks for the video
steadicam is the best
has a very smooth movement
+AHMED LENS Steadicam does have that organic fluid feel to it. The motorized gimbal is more about precision. That was why I wanted to do the test. Even though I own the Ronin, I would still consider purchasing a small Steadicam rig as well if I had the money. Different systems for different jobs.
Steadicam def. looks smoother. But if you are shooting low budget, none scripted run and gun. Gimbal might be more pleasant to use. Thanks for doing the test guys!
there is a difference between the ronin operator with hands only, and the steadicam helped by shoulders support
I love both systems, but the fact that you'll never run out of battery with a steadycam, makes it almost perfect to me... great video
Really good review, the Steadicam just seems to give a more natural look to the movements. The gimbal still has a bit of catch up on it.
You guys did a really nice job on this comparison. For most of the shots I liked the Steadicam best, but I did think that the Ronin was smoother on the stairs shot.
Steadicam feels more natural, both do great shots!
Hi guys, freaking awesome comparison! Thank you. I have a smaller steadycam myself and use it way to seldom. So watching David perform with the big rig made me jealous - skillful guy! And for the resulting work, I think the Ronin did surprisingly well, even though the super smooth performance from David and the Steadicam was on the top.
Thanks again!
The walk and talk type of tests I actually liked the Ronin and the Orbiting test I liked the Steadicam. I thought it was going to be the other way around before picking. The Ronin had a Jello like floating feel to it compare to the steadicam, but it could also be based on the cam ops. Eitherway I cant afford either one lol.
Both impressive. The steady cam was a smidge better in some scenes while the motorized Ronin was better in other scenes. very impressive
Great job guys. I saw it as a tie, some shots I liked the Ronin and some I liked the steadicam.
I think that although these 2 guys did an amazing job at showing us this comparison, this isn't a real life situation. For instance, when you are shooting drama, you start your move on a particular line (dialogue). Then you stop and follow the motion down of a character who sits, turns and delivers a line to someone who previously was out of frame but now becomes the focus of the framing over the previous actor's shoulder. Then you go with this new focus of attention towards another room, through a door frame. And so on. Blocking, choreographing, is way more than following, leading, orbiting. It's all that on cue, going from one character to another, nailing each actor on his line, an so on. Of course these 2 great guys can't do that type of comparison for obvious reason (who would pay for all that??). However, if they were to do it, we could really appreciate the considerable superiority of steadycam over gimbal.
depends on the operator... if i have to spend my money, im goin for Ronin...
Thanks guys for this video. Its very interesting to see the Steadicam and Dji Ronin compared.
Bart Great segment. I really enjoyed it. I am getting ready to buy a Ronin for my C300 so I am doing my research. I read all the comments. Let's compare apple to apple guys. David has 5 years of experience, and he is using a lot more expensive setup to get those shots. Bart has had the Ronin only for 2 months, and I think for that little amount of time, the footage looked amazing. Also, the Ronin set up cost a hell of lot less than what David was operating. Now, if you have the studio budget, then get a very experienced Steadycam operator with the full setup, no problem. BUT, for most indy filmmaker, where finance is critical, the Ronin more than does the job for very little money. Great job both guys, but it's not totally an apple to apple comparison. Let's keep the cost of the gear in mind. I am open to what others have to say about this. Thanks.
Great video guys!! Enjoyed the video. Steadicam seem more natural and smoother but on certain shots Gimbal looked better. Thanks for this detailed video!
the ronin does what a dolly should be doing, which is a rigid but steady movement of the camera, the steady cam has a more organic feel which is more visually pleasing to me at least
Thanks for the review guys.
The most notable difference I saw wasnt mentioned in the conclusion on the video... the operators line of sight!
Watch the Ronin operator struggling to look up at the monitor and then down at the stairs to see where he was walking, whereas the stedicam operator's monitor is already positioned in the same line of sight to where he was walking & can therefore use his peripheral vision to walk around obstacles.
The position of the monitor on the stedicam saves having to keep track of both the monitor and obstacles like the stairs.
...But the main reason I would prefer the stedicam is that it frees up your hands and arms much more - you dont have to put down the camera every time you have a drink. ;)
+jeremie kerridge Those are some very good points. I did not even consider that. An option would have been for me to run the Ronin inverted and have the monitor down low in my line of sight of the stairs and my feet.
Thumbs up to Steadicam
so Steadicam has a small leaning movement during motion vs Ronin having a side to side push (horizontally) which is much stepper. Not sure if it's from electronics or technique but I prefer the steadicam smooth leaning vs horizontal pulsation
Out of curiosity why didn't the Steadicam op go in Don Juan for the lead shot? There wasn't really any need to go backwards Missionary on that one, or am I missing something? Personal preference perhaps?
Good video comparison! They were both close, but I think there is a rare time that a Steadicam won't have the advantage over a 3-axis gimbal. Not only is it much less strenuous to operate, but the control over both up/down and side-to-side movements really make the Steadicam a winner. I don't see it going away any time soon!
I am not sure why David chose to operate that shot that way. It may be his personal preference. I would have to check with him.
Most steadicam operators prefer walking backwards in missionary rather than shooting Don Juan. This is something I discovered on a posting on the Steadicam Forum website very recently. I was shooting a scene last week on Steadicam and the first take I filmed was walking backwards and repeated it for 3 takes but the shots were a bit ropey. I was walking backwards along a country path, downhill on uneven ground and had someone spotting me but still, the shot wasn't up to scratch. I switched to Don Juan and Boom; nailed it in one. The thing is, up until that point I'd only ever practiced Don Juan and never used it on a job. I was very relieved on the outcome to be sure!!
Nice video, very informative. Thanks guys!
whats the music used for this video? :) thanks!
Excellent comparison. Used a ronin for the first time the other night for a shoot and I agree with everything you guys mentioned. ( my arms were tired )
Steadicam looks more stable and smooth to me, but Ronin is a very remarkable piece of equipemt.
Great video guys!!
I guess the hand or proper movement of the operator, equilibrium etc can influence at final. For me there are a noticeable difference, producing smoother movements the steady cam...and so I think it´s no the same when your entire body is the mass support instead the hands...The hands ever are shaky. It´s my opinion. I´m open to others because I`m starting with Ronin MX. Your opinions maybe some help for me.
I keep reading in the comments that the Steadicam is better, but honestly, I can't see the difference. I was watching for straight lines in the background -- the railing for instance. That is a good way to see less then steady footage. They look so similar I could not tell the difference. I think it is a tie for footage.
I think it comes down to price and ease of operation (ease of operation is both how quickly can you pick it up and get good with the tool and how difficult is it to operate the tool day long without getting tired.
Would be interesting to see if the comments would have been the same if the footage was made as a blind test instead of labeling them.
And the camera on the Ronin was not properly exposed either, which I believe also makes a difference when you judge, unconsciously.
Nice gimbal operating!
steadycam will always win the circular motion. I have problems with that myself. but I love my ronin.
+TimelineProvision TP Seen the Phantoms and the Inspires do orbits? ;)
Ben Fletcher haha yh.....
Thanks for the great test! Seems like an additional test with various rigs for holding the Ronin is warranted... ReadyRig GS, Armor-man 2, and the soon-to-ship SteadiCam SteadiMate. Then your gimbal has a bit more 4th axis stabilization and can be worn all day.
Oh I have requests in to a few of those companies to test their rigs. And David has been bragging so much I know we need a rematch!
To me both- steadicam and the gimal are good stabalizing systems. But! They are different and both are good in particular situations. And there is one very big difference between steadi and gimbal- for good steadicam shot you need a loooot of skill.
Soul Stuff Library We think you said it all and we have the same opinion. The people who's thinking to buy one of these pieces, must see first what will be actual use :)
Big difference for me is the ability to carry the camera for long, long takes. I just can't hold my Crane a long time. Plus, multiple takes? Forget it.
I found that ronin have a little shaky when look at the edge but I cant noticed in steadicam
I almost feel like the Ronin does way better at keeping the camera completely stable, but that is the ultimate downside to brushless gimbals. It is almost too good at it. There is something about the steadicam and how it naturally sways. When you take that away, in my opinion, it looks a little strange and unnatural. I think that computerized gimbals should be controlled with a computerized interface, such as on multirotors, and steadicams work better when operated directly. Does that make sense?
+Caleb Nehrbass Makes sense and is definitely true. One of the reasons I purchased the Ronin was not only to operate it handheld, but also to use it with the remote as a motorized head on my Kessler Crane. Two birds with one stone!
That sounds like a great setup!
Thanks very much for doing this test and publishing it. I disagree with many of those who think the Steadicam is better or smoother, but full-disclosure, I own a Movi M15. I expected the Steadicam to really obviously outperform the Ronin on some tests, but I found them both fairly even, with maybe a few minor differences that would be present in any two different operators. I can see more horizon 'rolling' on the Steadicam shots, especially in the Faster Following test and the Stairs. The Ronin corrected that rolling movement better, maybe too perfectly. I was impressed by your Corner turn on the Ronin, too -- thought the Steadicam would be much better but the Ronin did a great job. The Circle-Around test was better on the Steadicam, but only by a little, and mainly because it was a better tilt-down from the flag pole. I typically require my Steadicam Ops to have a minimum of 5 years' experience, because it's all in the skill of the operator. The Ronin took you a few months to get to the experience level of the Steadicam operator, and cost much less. My Movi took a week or so to get used to, mainly for technical and balancing reasons, and I was so impressed by how quickly I could get the hang of operating it. Great job on the presentation, Bart and David!
+Graham Futerfas Thank you!
Steadicam BEST!
thanks for this test comparison. I actually agree. - Steadycam with proffesional operator feels more natural and steady. but still they are both pretty close. but every single time compared - i found steadycam more "fluid" look. very nice comparison folks. thanks!
So we're comparing a heavy worn-in $10,000+ custom Steadicam rig with support vest and a pro operator against a ~$2,000 Ronin? For the same price you bet anyone would go for the Steadicam option! The Ronin was not designed to compete against that particular price range.
This video makes me want to be your friend and go shoot with you guys. You're both nice! Cheers from Brazil
+Marina Vieira I would love to be your friend and shoot with you sometime! I always love meeting new people. I actually did some shooting in Brazil in Rio a few years ago. I had a great time!
now do the same test on a 85mm lens :-)
Thats a good point
but steadicam still better
Great job explaining how they work and the pros and cons of each setup. I wonder if people are biased in judging the Ronin poorly since they are so used to Steadicam footage. I bet if you were to use the same actor in each shot and asked people to judge which they liked better, setup A or setup B and not tell people which is which, they would not really know. Might be worth a test.
+Timothy Chambers A blind test could be interesting...
Very nice comparison. I too like the Steadicam more, but why is it that expensive?
David's particular system is very expensive, but you can find smaller systems with fewer features for much less.
My take on it is greed. Its so needed in the film industry and they know this. Of course material plays a role in it. I've seen fishing wire,.... one strand holds 10 pounds of presure wheeling in 735 lbs fish,.... How is it that these steadicam prices vary depending on the weight of your camera? IT IS VERY irritating why dont they make the spring adjustable like they do in luxury sports cars where it can be loosened or tightened? I have the steadicam rid but it kills me knowing there are bikes out there lighter and more material than the steadicam and yet the rig is thousands. (SIGH) I compare this to the movie slate,..... when you have a great idea and monopolize,... you can charge high and call it the standard.
Maybe Im bitter hahahah I have two Would love invent a better one that allows students to purchase and just be creative
Its both the elitism of the industry and the demand for steadicam rigs in the world. Since the demand is very limited to the industry, the supply can also be very limited which can make prices go up. I could build a system like this for $1200 with 8208 motors, an Alexmos PID controller, and carbon fiber sheet/tube for the gimbal and steel box for a 4th axis stabilizer, but it will take a couple of weeks to build, design, and assemble the whole thing which as an independent builder I will charge a lot for. It's not because I'm greedy, but its because the purchaser needs the tool and I'm the only person in the situation that has the skills to build the system, my exclusivity and time costs money too. Products cost as much as people are willing to spend on it, and people are willing to spend bank for heavy duty stabilizers that at the end of the day support $80k cameras and multi-million dollar films.
Nick Ortiz hey there. Hope all is well. You almost had me there. 👋😂👍at hello.
I get what you are saying. Note: you said you can produce $1200,.... i agree with you. Now we have machine that make the production spit 100's of these per hour,....(pause) one person quality control parts and one on assembly just QC. Where does $10,000 plus come in for ONE STEADYCAM?
Mind you,... (bicycle) the cheapest bike or the lightest in weight,...... is able to hold what???? How much weight? Ohhhhhh😲 between 5 lbs to 300plus lbs of HUMAN BODY.
You mean to tell me,,....... that steadicam is going to hide behind that same line,.."Well you want your $140,000 camera supported and safe right?"
No way buddy? Bullet proof vests and pro rock climbing vest deal with the human body weight and dont cost even a fraction of a steadiCam rig.
Trust me. I would love to support you in your rig making at 1200 because i trust you more Than some INDUSTRY telling me about the safety of my 140g camera need a 15,000 rid to hold up 20-40 pound camera.
👋😎👍 and Nick,... FYI the above is not arguing. I know text people feel it in the way they read it. I'm completely happy. Wealthy and just arguing from a WTH are we doing in humanity point.
I'll say this before i go. The difference between a video camera and a camera is on takes STILL IMAGES and the other takes Multiple pictures and sound. WHY DONT they make the videocameras today take stills??? Hmmmmmmmm. GREED!!!! They cant give you all in one!😂😂😂😂 the DSLR's shutter noises out the ______ss. Just because. We dont want you filming movies with it. Go back and buy our video camera.
Nick Ortiz lets make it happen. You have 4 axis built already?
Great Video🙌🏿 but I think both systems were great... We own the Ronin-M and love it for our Canon 5D Mark III (had it for a 1 month still need plenty of practice). But I think the operator of the steadycam was more experienced hence the reason why I liked the Steadycam footage so much over the Ronin in this vid👍
Steadicam rocks!
Steve Ferneyhough yes. Especially it kick ass in orbiting test!
Plus you look like a freakin' SPACE MARINE from Alien.
Appreciate your time and effort in making this video!
I don't think there's any substitute to a Steadicam out there. There are newer devices which might address the purpose, but it is finally one' preference; considering the cost and other factors into consideration. It's an impeccable invention of physics. Steadicam is more human and natural whereas Ronin seems to be stiffer and very electronicy. (Sort of like a hand-made bespoke shoe vs a production made shoe) Ronin might be lighter, but it might be a pain for your arms in relation to the fly time. Steadicam is heavier, but it distributes the wait to your back and legs; if correct posture is maintained + PRACTICE. There are several factors also and this can go on... :) Well, nothing like Steadicam and there won't be any. Thanks to *Garret Brown*
The steadycam look so sososososo nice to me...
the color/dynamic range on steadycam shot appears to be better which makes it odd since it was shot with the same camera. what could have caused the differences？is it due the angle height of the shot? steadycam shots were at a slightly lower angle in these shots as it were shown in the video.
It could be because we shot all of the steadicam first and then the Ronin later. As the sun went down we needed to adjust the camera to try and retain a similar look. We probably didn't get the exposure exact and that could be the difference with the crushed blacks and color difference.
i dont know which one is better but the steadycam operator was better
I have the Ronin M, and you do have control of the vertical movement, its through the " DJI Assist " app and its al controlled through the " tilt " motors. iv done some videos with mine, and though adjusting the " deadhand " and the stiffness, and " roll " you can go up steps and it looks like its gliding. the biggest thing with the Ronin M is that you need to re-learn how to walk, and run, to take the bounce out of your steps to give you that free, smooth, and free glide look at higher speeds. its much simpler to adjust the Ronin M than you would think. I love it, and I am revamping my entire business, and youtube channel because of owning the Ronin M now.
Tilt control is not the same as the virtual movement I am referring to. The Ronin M is still a 3-axis gimbal only. Yaw, tilt, and roll. It does not compensate for direct vertical motion like a steadicam does. There are plenty of accessories that turn the Ronins into 4 axis gimbals now. When you are walking carefully and compensating wit your arms, your body is stabilizing the 4th vertical axis.
Now....how about a ronin on a steadicam? That would probably be overkill but the most perfect setup, no?
We actually did that! After we shot these tests we put the ronin on the steadicam arm and mounted the whole thing to a Segway. You can see it here: ua-cam.com/video/w06u-y7ag-4/v-deo.html
very informative and comprehensive.. i like the tips you guys are giving thumbs up please keep doing it.
Steady-cam won big time vs Ronin. Specially in the laterals of the frames, there's a lot of shaking...
I Like them both. glide cam wins obviously, due to the 4th access, resulting in overall butter smoothness. Great job guys, your test was right on point.
Thanks!
i say the steadicam is the best but the ronin is more compact and ok for it portability
One more important thing is age, for me being an older person, weight distributed through the steadicam is much easier than using my arms, your test results are great ! because both of you have plenty of experience on using them, also correct in saying that what ever unit you use, practice practice practice..Again, great shootout guys.
steadycam is better WOW !!!! thanks for your test !!!!! ;)
+Victor Heu No problem!
+Victor Heu But not your spelling...
+RSBSTEADICAM lol
i think the steadicam was slightly better but both systems work great. i have no clue how hard it is to operate a ronin, but i do have a clue how hard it is to operate a full steadicam rig with arm and vest and what i want to say is that David is a very good steadycam operator. i personally would hire him for what ever steadicam job right away. Well maybe not for football (soccer) running the side line ;-)
you both did great, highly appreciated.
+Torsten Neuendorf Exactly... it would have been tricky enough to see anyone compete against a pro operator with the same rig, let alone an electronic gimbal. I don't see anything beating a good Steadicam and talented flyer for many years to come. There is a reason good money is spent on them.