PRO LIFE vs. PRO CHOICE debate | opposing views with Lila Rose & Brenda Davies
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- Опубліковано 25 вер 2024
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Not many issues are more polarizing and heated than the topic of abortion. Pro life advocates believe in the inherent value and human rights of the unborn. Pro choice advocates believe in the inherent value of the rights of women to choose whether to continue a pregnancy or not and to have bodily autonomy.
I sit down with Brenda Davies and Lila Rose, two advocates with very opposing views on the topic of abortion. Brenda is a writer, podcaster, and left-leaning pro-choice Christian with the UA-cam channel called God is Grey. Brenda believes that forced birth is immoral and that abortion can be better prevented by making this nation a more hospitable place for new & existing life with left leaning policies. Lila is a writer, speaker and pro life activist. She’s the founder and president of Live Action, a human rights nonprofit with the largest digital footprint on the globe for the pro-life movement. Live Action exists to defend the rights of the unborn and make abortion unthinkable.
In this episode we cover:
- Is it always wrong to commit intentional violence on an innocent human person?
- Is it immoral to force teens and women to give birth against their will? What about bodily autonomy?
- What is the moment of distinction when a person deserves basic human rights? Gestational age? A heartbeat? Viability? When a person takes their first breath after birth?
- Both mother and child have rights - are those rights in conflict when it comes to pregnancy?
- A common reason why someone is pro-choice: “I wouldn’t personally get an abortion but I wouldn’t want to restrict someone else from getting one.”
- Is the way we talk about this debate “pro life” and “pro choice” are accurate to how people who hold those views truly think and act?
- There was over 600,000 abortions last year, if all abortions were banned, that would be 600,000 more kids, a lot of them in poverty or tough situations, what would be the plan to deal with that?
- Horrific instances of rape or incest, or when there is an extreme health risk to the mother? Or women who are suffering mentally?
- Sex elective abortion, where for example the parent chooses to abort their baby girl because they are specifically wanting a boy.
- would making abortion illegal actually reduce abortions?
- How the foster care system vs adoption shapes this conversation
- Do women need to rely on abortion to succeed in society?
- What about overpopulation?
- Roe v. Wade - will the Supreme Court overturn Roe? What will that mean for our national conversation about abortion?
WERE TO FIND BRENDA DAVIES:
Instagram / godisgrey
Book www.amazon.com...
UA-cam / godisgrey
WHERE TO FIND LILA ROSE:
Instagram / lilaroseofficial
Website www.liveaction...
Live Action / liveactionorg
Book www.amazon.com...
Resources from Lila that she mentioned in the episode:
OPTION LINE
optionline.org | (800) 712-4357
Option Line offers a confidential live chat, text line, and toll-free phone line that is available 24/7. The website contains additional resources for women who are considering abortion, have had an abortion, or are seeking alternatives to abortion. It can connect a woman almost anywhere to local free resources
CARE NET
www.care-net.or... | (866) 993-0794
Care Net offers free resources and a confidential, toll-free, phone line available from 10 AM to 6 PM EST.
if you’re a woman considering abortion because of financial stress, reach out to Let Them Live: letthemlive.org
to see what happens in an abortion from ex abortionist doctors who have performed thousands of abortions, go here: www.abortionpr...
WHERE TO FIND ME:
Get my ebooks: www.ellenfishe...
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I was raped, there were times when I just couldn't handle it. I kept my child she is 19 yrs old. She kept me alive when I had no reason to live. She gave me a reason to keep going.
I know someone like that.
Blessings 🙏 ❤️
❤️❤️
I am so happy you have this outlook and decided to not take out that horrific unspeakable act out on an innocent child.. I can't imagine how you felt.. and as a man I was r***d as a young child by a man.... I was too young, even if I was a girl to be able to get pregnant.. and probably that is why it didn't have the negative affect on me as it would as a girl able to have a child.... If these pro choice advocates heard stories as yours they wouldn't be able to grand stand ideas they don't know about like you do.. If you believe in God or not he loves you and I/we do too.. God bless you, you strong woman....
@@NateA80 no one should ever be violated its sad when it happens. I'm sorry that happened to you. I hope you healed emotionally from it. I have but it does bother me from time to time. It's nice to see a pro-life man respond instead of getting hate speech. I was strong cause I had to be. I had a choice to make.
1. Get an abortion
2. Keep going with life as I always have
Things have always been done to me being raped was nothing new. I have never reported any of the rapes or any other thing I just move on.
When Lila asked "When you're pregnant, what are you pregnant with?" and Brenda responds with "a spirit", I literally spit out my drink.
Honestly, when she said that I choked on air.
Brenda sounds like she’s surviving in life. She had not a single brain cell in her brain 🧠 to save her.
I'm with you. What spirit is she talking about. I am just proud of Lila, how she handles her in every interview she is in. Keep it up Lila and may God protect you always.
Did any woman ever gave birth to a spirit? How does it looked like Brenda?
Pregnancy is a condition, you are not "with" anything.
Our doctor STRONGLY suggested an abortion after lab test indicated Edward's syndrome. We decided to NOT do it... Our baby is now a healthy and beautiful national honors student.
Wow, amazing ❤
@@tratincica2211 Thanks! The doctor told us our baby was most likely going to die anyway. But we decided that where there is life, there is hope. We truly appreciate your comment.
I am so happy for you.
I had a similar experience with my third baby. I was told that he had multiple markers for Down syndrome and to do confirmation testing as quickly as possible so I could still qualify for an abortion. I refused, and he was born 100% healthy. Prenatal testing is so flawed and often proven to have false positives, and not justification for homicide.
@@grammaurai6843 I'm so happy for you. It's crazy how quick doctors are to suggest abortion?!
Brenda is not the right person to be debating this topic when her response to everything is that she’s getting frustrated and that it’s a waste of time. Like why did you agree to come debate this topic when you’re not prepared for it whatsoever?
Lila crushed it. So elegant and poise and respectful.
I think her lack of knowledge and preparation is because there is no debate here.
@@kayleighmcintyre31 hahaha good point
Lila debated abortion. Brenda debated Democrat wishlists, voter suppression and campaign talking points.
Yeah and she keeps dismissing the question. You have to answer questions in a debate.
Savita Halappanavar. She died because she was refused an abortion in Ireland even though she had maternal sepsis. Lila Rose Catholic views are too extreme because she doesn’t make exceptions for medical situations. Women can and have died because of pregnancy complications and the fetus is too young to live outside the womb. You get a dead mother and child rather than a live mother. Lila Rose religious views are ignorant to such situations.
A major problem I am having with Brenda’s argument happens at 49:28. When asked questions about abortion she says, “ she’s not very educated on the matter.” That is crazy to me. She is writing books on the women’s health, she has podcast, and she vehemently supports “ pro choice.” But now when it’s time to defend your stance, your “uneducated” . How can you defend a stance, write books, and get argue on a platform when you admit that you are “uneducated” on a topic. That’s ridiculous smh
She was embarrassing throughout the whole video 🤢 I came into the pro choice however my views are back and forth on the subject and may be changing, idk. But I appreciated Lila way more in this for the most part.
@@jackielortz4781 how could you go back and forth? You realize the ramifications right? Women placed in jails if they speak they may go out of state for an abortion, literally like a cattle farm. Women jailed, forced to have babies for other families. It's weird and extreme, if this is truly something that was actually enacted, it would be detrimental. More women would day, way more women. There would be an epidemic of people kxlling full term babies and toddlers, instead of just getting an abortion. Limits? Obviously. Late term abortions are insane, unless it's medical, like a baby without a skull and brain, or a baby that will be born dead, or the mothers chance of dying being there. The goal is to do what we can, to support women and mothers in society, supporting women and children who choose life, giving them a village, AND supporting women who absolutely should not and do not want to continue a pregnancy. I am a young mom of 3. I am 23. Everyone assumes I'm pro life, but I'm not. I'm adamantly pro choice, I have friends who had to get abortions. They were the hardest, most critical decisions made. It doesn't matter if the fetus is "alive" or if it's a baby. Women still have the right to not be locked in cells and used as a way to produce babies for other people, it's forced human trafficking. The UN is coming in and is on standby because they are huge violations of human rights.
@@jackielortz4781 I'm curious. What things are holding you back when considering pro life?
I thought the same thing. Vastly irresponsible.
@@TryingtoTellYou I know you aren’t replying to me but my only issue is someone being pregnant for 9 whole months and having to give a birth that’s painful even if they didn’t want to be. It just doesn’t sit right with me.
As a millennial I would have to say when I got pregnant, the natural response of my peers around me was to get an abortion. It became the norm and the "right" thing to do. I chose to keep my baby and was the best decision I have ever made.
that was your choice though, so it sounds like you're pro-choice. I don't get pro-lifers, would you actually go around to every woman in the world who accidentally got pregnant and forcefully have them to have the baby and force them to put all their own needs to the side and raise a child for at least 18 years? you made your own choice, now let everyone else make their own choice. this is such a strange debate to me
@@chelseaamber3065 nobody’s being forced into an 18-year commitment to take care of a child with the exception of fathers legally forced to pay child support. If a woman wants to give up the child for adoption, they certainly can. Also, nobody’s legally forcing someone to become pregnant. This isn’t the handmaids tale and we don’t have any pregnancy quotas. Opposing abortion is nothing more and nothing less than standing in the way of lethal force being used against an innocent, defenseless, and voiceless human being who’s only crime was being brought into existence by someone who now wants to kill them.
@@chelseaamber3065 if she was raped that’s different. But this generation wants to have sex without consequences and thats dangerous to avoid accountability. Go whore somewhere else
@@chelseaamber3065 Outside of non-consensual sex, how does one 'accidentally' get pregnant?
@@chelseaamber3065 ok well it sounds like her friends weren’t really pro choice I don’t get pro choicest who are supposed to be so for someone having a right to choose they have an issue with someone choosing to parent or choosing to give birth
came as pro choice and left as pro life. thank you for this episode. those kind of conversations are very much needed!
I used to be pro choice. I changed my mind after finally listening to arguments from the other side. Deep down I think I had always known I was doing mental gymnastics to defend the killing of another human life.
@@klumzi this was set up to not be biased at all. If 1 side has facts and one doesn’t it may look like that’s the case to some
So wonderful to read this comment. Kudos to you for commenting this!
Good on you! So glad to hear this!
@@klumzi heyy, actually watched this episode as soon as it came out. because of this episode I got really into this subject and listened to more podcasts and discussions. the pro life side since discovering Lila rose has been the side I agree with most/only. But you are right. one should always keep educating oneself and not only listen to only one source!
Brenda came to a pro life v pro choice debate and didn’t want to talk about abortion at all
So true😢
Had my son at 19 all my friends told me get an abortion . My son is the best thing that ever happened to me
You’re a strong woman, that’s a beautiful story. I wish I had had your strength when I was in a similar position as a young lady. Unfortunately i chose wrong and 25 years later it still hurts. Keep telling your story, it’s powerful, and babies will be rescued because of you ❤
Thank you both for telling your stories. It matters ❤❤❤
@@pjm6496 Your unborn child is currently in Heaven, living with King Jesus and God, eternally happy and joyful with them. Don't keep putting yourself in shame for a decision you made in your past, but rather surrender to God, accept Jesus Christ as your savior and LORD, and He will bring you healing and deliver you from the shame and hurt from your past. Entrust God with your most basic needs and you will see how powerful He is and how He is so faithful. He loves you so much more than even the best love you can imagine. He exceeds all expectations. I encourage you to lay it in His hands and give Him control over your life. God loves you and bless you, in Jesus name!
Bless your heart Ny Ayanna. God loves you and your son unconditionally and has a plan for you both!
@@gracekim9429 thank you for that, I agree with everything you said completely.. and yes, I’ve done those things and love the Lord very much. Thank you for being bold and for your faithfulness!
I had a forced abortion, my body betrayed me. You say that was a miscarriage… but the doctors referred to my sons birth as “spontaneous abortion “ I named my son Michael, meaning “one who is like God”. Michael lived for eight hours, he weighed 12 ounces. Michael was perfect, except for his underdeveloped lungs. He was a real baby, my first child, and I still miss him.
God bless you, Barbara. Praying for you.
I’m so sorry
I had a ruptured ectopic pregnancy (I was told it was IMPOSSIBLE for me to get pregnant) and ended up in the er with them telling me I’m 12 weeks in and internally bleeding. They put me under for emergency surgery and when I woke up and asked where the baby was the doctor said “in the trash it’s medical waste”. I know that my baby was already not alive at the time of entering the er, it wasn’t “viable” but it didn’t feel like a “miscarriage” it felt like an abortion. I’m with you Barbara and lending my heart and hugs to you. You’re not alone.
Oh Mary I am so sorry 😢 The Lord did bless me with a son, it was touch and go for most of my pregnancy, but he survived and is now 38 years old! God is 😊
God bless you. May you be joined with your son again in heaven (in His time)❤
Former baby here. Glad I was not aborted. Carry on.
Your argument is succinct and one of the most effective whenever I see it. Cheers!
Underrated comment
I'm a former baby as well. 59 years ago I was born, well actually May 25th it will be 60 years. Though my mother didn't have a lot of money, she had a lot of love and cared about me a lot, and that means all the world to me.
I'm a former baby, and would have never judged my mom for making that decision. She didn't want me.😂
There are many reports of people dying and having an experiences / feelings that no earthly pleasure or drug can match. how do you know it is bad to be dead. If you died today, maybe you would also choose to stay on the other side.
Hi nurse here at an obgyn unit . We can hear a heart beat at 6-8 weeks .. baby is visible at 8 weeks . Brenda is missed informed unprepared and lost. She needs prayer
Brenda saying that a soul begins at conception but a life doesn’t begin until 23ish weeks might be the dumbest shit I have ever heard. 😂
i had to pause and sit for a second bc i was baffled lmaoo
im like 5 minutes in to cehck the comments, and this made me laugh out loud 😆
Depends what you are calling life. Its life sure. Its not human life until birth.😊
The trees are alive, but nobody is coming to put in in prison because I chopped a tree down last week. See that difference?
@@firefly9838Trees aren’t sentient or sapient beings with protective human rights. Don’t embarrass yourself in these comments trying to equate cutting down trees with terminating a *human* life.
Shes not really that bright as I'm still watching and it's only an hour in.
I'm still back on where she thought the violent images shouldn't be shared. Sure because you aren't supposed to actually find out what abortion actually does.
Slave owners also dehumanized slaves in their quest to keep them. Interestingly enough they were also the liberals, democrats
If you haven't read "the Negro Project " Margaret Sangers eugenics program.
I still haven't heard her explain why we aren't emphasizing the at least a dozen types of birth control readily available and free in most towns if you can get to a clinic
I’m American Mexican and I did not told my parents about sex Ed class. No way! Therefore they never had a chance to converse their moral views with me. At 15 I got pregnant and was told I now needed to become a woman and learn the ways of motherhood. My ex was deported while I was 17 and pregnant with our second son. Now I am 33 and my oldest just had a daughter 😮 Long story short, I have achieved a degree in robotics and my sons are thriving. Ladies, WE CAN DO IT ❤❤❤
thank you for sharing your story
I’m so happy to hear about your amazing story, my sister has a similar story and raised two of the most amazing kids, and she’s doing great herself. But degree in robotics!! Congratulations! You’ve accomplished a lot!! Ladies you can definitely do it! And their are Men like Saint Jospeh out there :)
@@CatholicCanadianConservative
Yes, women are very capable of being the best moms! 🥰
I actually dropped out of high school in 9th grade. After my 2 kids began attending preschool I went for my GED. Then, years later i went to college. So worth it!
so inspiring. thank you for sharing
@@ceejay331
Thank you
Pro Choicer: "I'm going to veto this question."
Also Pro choicer 5 secs later: "I am so passionate about getting my voice into this discussion."
Pro Choicer: "An abortion procedure is not an act of violence"
Also a Pro Choicer: "Pictures of an abortion procedure is violence against women because it's showing them what they're doing to their babies."
Then she managed to accuse the pro life side of spinning the “hamster wheel” while she couldn’t answer the most basic and fundamental questions on the topic, she did this several times.
She forfeited the debate with that response. She realized she couldn’t answer the question without making her argument look absolutely look ridiculous so she simply gave up. Honestly I felt embarrassed for her
Brenda continues to dork up.
Who veto’s questions during a debate? Brenda should be disqualified from the debate as she did this multiple times
The whole “god is grey” thing literally has me absolutely sick to my stomach. A bunch of strategic, blasphemous lies stemming from the pit of hell is what that is.
Yes, Thank you.
💯💯💯
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
[13]For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
[14]And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
[15]Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
She needs the GOSPEL.
Literally what it is
My mother was raped. She kept me. I have 5 kids and we are so happy. I was human. I was treated as a human not a rape. Even if she would have delivered me and gave me away I would have all respect for her.
❤️
God bless your mother
I’m happy you’re here and your loving mother decided to keep you ❤
God is with you and your mom
That’s YOU. I know a girl who was the product of rape and her mother became an addict after and beat and neglected her child because she resented her so much. Stop comparing your situation to other peoples. If I rapist violates your body, you should not have to carry HIS baby and suffer for 9 months with the constant reminder. Having people come up to you asking about your “happy family” and the father, only to have to say “oh no there’s no father I was raped by a stranger at gunpoint”. Anyone who is pro life in this situation is repulsive. You aren’t pro life you’re anti woman.
You can't "veto a question" in a debate if it is the MAIN point of the debate 😂
Yes and I was so glad Lila said, “But this IS the question.”
EXACTLY!
i almost threw my phone out the window!!! how are you gonna pick and chose the argument?? i saw a similar response to another podcast she did with a whole table full of secular-influenced individuals. they would call her annoying and just chose “not to answer” cause they weren’t “interested” in that debate….. explain the logic ?????
@@anabsanchez14 was it Whatever podcast?
@@with.the.y yes lolol
I feel like both these women are convincing me to be pro-life.
😊😂😂😂 seriously.
The truth just resonates differently
The fact that Brenda is having such a difficult time supporting her views from the beginning makes her so much harder to side with.
Fetus is not a person.
Gymnastic olympics at its best. Mandatory DNA testing for sure for you. Just take accountability for your actions and stop lying
If people were aborting puppies, at the rate that people abort babies, the public would be up in arms.
I mean yeah, if people were pregnant with puppies...
Yup, always. They think of people as animals, but they treat animals better.
"Wow look at the bees create a hive. Awesome beaver dam!"
Now people "look at that entire city with skyscrapers. People are so wasteful and selfish."
@@bdowiemama3310 Sure, because bees destroy thousands of species with their hives too, right?
@joannajett2524 No nature is all super kind and loving to one another 🤡
@@bdowiemama3310 Not the point. Are thousands of animal species disappearing because of bee hives and beaver dams, yes or no? Also, can humans live without skyscrapers?
Lila was so overwhelmingly superior that you even start feeling sorry for the other lady.
I totally agree!
She starts every statement with a heavy breath..then goes into it all being nuanced..or talks about her mouse wheel.
Brenda's biggest problem is that Lila is speaking clearly..and with straight forward facts!
I’m on 20 minutes in and I agree….and I’m not even firm (yet) of my own pro-life vs. pro-choice opinion.
@@mary5305j
I thought that Brenda got weaker as the interview progressed.
I almost was thinking that Lila Rose convinced her to become pro life...but at the end she said she was pro choice and always would be...bur failed terribly on defending her position!
💯 Facts
I felt bad that Lila was constantly interrupting her every other sentence that I completely stopped watching.
My opinion changed 100% because of education. Especially learning about what actually happens during the abortion procedure. It is horrifying.
Totally agree. It's barbaric.
@@shannane5171 right because a pill is so barbaric
@@kotababy411 what the pill does to the fetus is barbaric
You should meet up with one of those who do the procedure. You’ll feel like something is really off about them. Your sins do show up on your countenance. Like the more people you have sex with the older you look even with kids
It's in the woman's body ffs. She should have the choice. Of all the sentient adult stakeholders in the world, her stake is higher than everyone else's combined. Thus its her choice
I think Brenda is pro choice in order to make her feel better about the guilt she feels over her own abortion. She’s not ready to face her sin. I’ll pray for her healing and that she truly seeks the Lord.
i could not agree more w/ this!! let’s keep her in prayer for all the hurt she’s endured but also to open her eyes to the truth!! God is not grey. God is pro-life otherwise He wouldn’t have created us & sent His Son (who was attempted to be aborted by Herod, the king at the time), Jesus to save us all from this broken world!! I think that’s also what Brenda is missing, this is a broken world so we can fix anything w/out understanding of who gave us life in the first place❤️
I’ve had this thought about a lot of the loudest pro choice women out there. I feel bad for them.
A pregnant woman who is injured and aborts the fetus warrants financial compensation only (to her husband), suggesting that the fetus is property, not a person (Exodus 21:22-25).
@@geewhiz747 you're applying modern day understanding of the human family compared to the Bible, lol. In the Bible, the Bible is very clear that the man is head of the house and the protector and provider of his family. It's a role hence why compensation was paid to the husband. It's not because his wife was property, it's because whatever happens to his wife and kids is HIS problem. If you're confused with that, argue with your liver or don't quote what you do not know ❤❤
The whole story of the Bible is how humanity fell, and God came back for us to reunite us with him.
The fallen people in exodus did plenty of wrong, they hadn't been redemmed yet. They hadn't received the holy spirit, they hadn't repented.
I’m so confused on how Brenda is Christian… it says in the Bible that we should be fruitful and multiply. That children are God’s greatest reward and gift. It says in the Bible that God loves our children more than we ever could. He will protect them and there is a purpose and reason for everything.
If you spend any time on her channel you will see that she is not actually a Christian,she is under the label of”progressive Christian “.She denies and twist scripture to suit her beliefs and sadly her content has lead many astray (I almost let her content do that to me when I was a teen).Saying you believe in God means nothing because the scriptures say that even the demons believe in God.Promoting abortion and all kinds of sexual immorality is not what truly saved believers do that have truly surrendered their lives to Christ.And yes while even conservatives twist scripture and act like Christians sin is sin either way and all of us will be judged.
@@AliyahNadeau 🎯🎯🎯
“Professing Christian”
There is nothing christian about Brenda’s worldview
Brenda reminds me of "Wolf in sheep's clothing and You shall know them by their fruits". Christian not abiding to bible teachings is not a Christian, doesn't matter what they say about them.
Wants to debate abortion, without knowing what an abortion entails...
Also, I smell trauma from her own abortion. When Lila mentioned it, Brenda seemed off. And the fact that she remembered how long it took is pretty sad. Also, the whole spirit thing is a way for her to cope with it. Saying that the "energy transfers" is much easier to handle that "my child was killed."
Yes praying for the LORD to help her cope with the trauma and decision she made that is God’s only.
Prayers that she will find that her God has made her and all women to be strong enough to say no to sex outside of marriage and also to have and raise a child born into any circumstances.
That’s often the case with vehement pro-choicers. It’s not natural to be an activist for the right to kill babies.
I agree.
I see that too. she convinced herself her abortion was ok and spiritual. She's not ok with it, if she takes off all that fluff.
Agree with that- noticed that also
I just want to say that at my 19 week anatomy scan we found out my little boy had a cleft lip and palate. The very first thing they said to us was if you want to abort you have until 24 wks here in Virginia and 26 wks in DC. I was completely shocked because otherwise my child was completely healthy. I’m very happy to say he is two years old now and has done so well that EVMS has a video of him here on UA-cam. My son has excelled in everything and the thought that some ppl may abort because they find out their child has a cleft lip and palate is beyond me. These children are just like normal children they don’t deserve death because something they can’t help. Just wanted to share our story ❤️
Just PLEASE don't exploit him or parade him around on social media like Jaxon Buell or the Hartley sisters.
@@hareoutofplace5688 I don’t at all. I don’t post videos on UA-cam and I don’t have any other form of social media. I got off before he was born. I’m against exploiting children. I only did the video for EVMS because they did such a wonderful job with my son and I definitely back their surgeons and teams that help you while pregnant and throughout the years. They were excellent. They were like a second family to us.
I had a similar experience. I was pressured to abort because I had abnormal bleeding and my 15 week quad screen came back as high chance of Down’s syndrome… then my son had a calcium deposit in his heart - and I was told he likely wouldn’t make it to term: I could either abort or deliver a dead baby naturally… atrocious.
Then when I was in labor (at term) my labor didn’t go smoothly - and despite both of us doing well, showing no signs of distress or infection I was told “you can either have a c-section now, or you can have one later and have a sick or dead child”… the ENTIRE OB “maternal care” system is just a horrible anti-woman/anti-child mess that profits off scaring women one way or another.
Regrettably I consented to the c-section, tho I have my doubts about how necessary it was. But I did not consent to anything else they “recommended” (it never really feels like a recommendation - it always feels like “do this or else”)… the only thing I did do was have an echo of his heart to make sure all was well: turns out calcium deposits are pretty normal during gestation for boys -and usually clear up, as his did)… after that horrible experience, I opted out of OB care with my second child. Both children are alive, healthy, and perfect - no thanks to our medical system. SMH. It’s absolutely atrocious how disposable they feel our children are 😞
@@Me-hf4ii yea I was pressured to have a C-section with my first as well…. But it was because he was larger. I tried to go naturally with my second but she wasn’t budging and I was going on 24 hrs of having my water broken and wasn’t opening past 3 cm dilated. Kind of glad I didn’t push her out though she was 9 lbs. 11 oz. 😅
I’m so glad to hear you had healthy happy babies! I don’t trust doctors too much anymore so I’m totally with you on opting out of care
@@brookelefors9613 I'm happy you made the right decision for you and your baby, but I just want to say for anyone else:
My water broke almost immediately as my labor started, it had to leak out slowly because I wasn't yet dilated more than even 1 cm. Even so, my labor lasted 48 hours with active labor taking place only in the last 6 hours. She was born perfectly healthy (though she was not a big ol' 9 pounder, congrats on a big healthy baby!)
Not to you, but to anyone else who reads:
So long as your baby isn't showing signs of distress, you don't need to feel pressured into making decisions. The baby will come on their own time, and in most first world countries, so long as the baby is undistressed and there is no sign of infection, you can go up to 3 days after your water has broken (after that it's generally thought that baby should come out as every day risk of infection increases, but even then you should make whatever decision feels right for you and your baby, with proper monitoring you could try to continue natural labor or you may choose surgical delivery).
I just wanted to put this out there.
For you, Brooke, congrats on your growing family! However a baby comes into the world, it is always a joyous occasion.
Wow. I grew up pro choice and after hearing this, I am pro life. Wonderful job of the host to organize this conversation. Thank you ❤
💖 God bless you
Good choice 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
abortion doesn’t stop when it’s banned. women just have unsafe abortions or forced childbirth
❤❤❤
It's really crazy that someone can even be pro choice to begin
My first child was born deaf, and my second child was also born deaf. During that second pregnancy, the doctors suggested I get genetic testing done to determine whether I wanted to abort my second deaf child. I was flabbergasted. Why on earth would I snuff out a life because of a disability? I’m not Hitler, who practiced eugenics.
And I guess I should mention that I bring this up because this eugenic mentality is common amongst those who advocate for abortion, so it should be seriously taking in consideration when backing abortion in general.
Praise the Lord! If I to have another child I would probably opt out of genetic testing - is there any value in them, except for the companies doing them?
Yes. I opt out of testing.
@@beccapeterson5233It's difficult to argue that the wanton taking of innocent lives in regards to abortion isn't merely just related to eugenics but is indeed eugenics in and of itself. The idea that some of us matter and some of us are disposable is beyond grotesque regardless of who the victim is, even if it's your own son or daughter. There is no moral principle that says that one individual matters and another is disposable, but only if and when we say so. And while I do recognize the difference in who is being exterminated, abortion is morally repugnant for the exact same reasons slavery and the Holocaust was as well.
Yes! I see your point. I guess most people don’t see eugenics in that way. But I’d agree that you’re right: eugenics’ foundation is that life is disposable, and the abortion industry also treats life as disposable, which is terrible. So abortion is a type of eugenics. To be clear, I was in no way trying to agree with that principle that life is a commodity. I was just sharing my own encounter with the evils of abortion.
As a black woman born into a low income family, I am glad my mother did not abort me. She was being coerced into doing it but decided not to as she still remembered the pain & guilt from her first abortion. She gave me a chance to live and as a millennial who has established quite the lucrative career in finance, I’m helping my extended family get out of poverty. We are all doing well now. Generally speaking, Americans aren’t born into a caste system, so to think the way we are born are ultimately the way we will die is disheartening. When did we all posses the ability to predict the future of someone else’s life?
Great Point....America’s are not born unto a Caste System
Black women only account for 3% of abortions in the United States
Poverty is absolutely not a reason to not have a baby. The poverty of America also have a lot of wonderful systems I.e. food stamps, wic, free health insurance etc. the only thing a baby needs is love and protection and that intimate care from its parents.
However knowingly having a baby born into possible abuse as a child, known possible sexual abuse as a child, known drug ridden families, yes. If you do not WANT to love your baby, and do not believe you’ll care for your baby, this is not fair to this sweet innocent life to be tortured until 18. The most formative years.
👍
Oh my Lord! Your comment made me want to shout! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 😊 My mother was also told that she should abort me because I would be a "mongoloid". Yes, I'm gen x. Lol I'm black. I'm so angry at people, who tell those who are of a lower income that they should kill their children as a way to overcome poverty. It's absolutely sickening!!! And may I remind us all that we are in the richest nation on earth! This argument doesn't fly! Millions of immigrants come here and rise to middle class in a single generation (usually in 10 years or less) and manage without abortion, not to have children until they deem it appropriate. There's NO excuse for these arguments. We're no longer looking at reality.
Wow. Brenda just made me Pro Life hands down. She made such a contradiction and awful argument for pro choice. I’m disgusted. Definitely Pro Life now. Thanks Brenda for your convincing argument.
Crystal, i think you are thanking Lila on the pro-life side. Brenda is on the pro-choice/abortion side
@@a_lobo i also thought the same thing as you... but if we think carefully what this person has written, it could also mean that Brenda the bad representative of the pro choice as she could not articulate and justify her points very well like the representative of the pro life did, made this person changed his mind and become a pro life.
@@a_lobo what she meant was that Brenda did so poorly advocating for pro-choice that it convinced Crystal opposite of what Brenda wanted to do.
Lila was pro-life (not Brenda)
This is a. Complicated issue. Women who want abortion will try to end the pregnancy her own trying which could even cause death to her. A women may not be capable of caring for a child, for her it may be easier to end the pregnancy than to be pregnant and then give the child up not knowing if properly cared for. Women could be explained how abortion is performed, what ends the life. Some women live in horrible circumstances where there is abuse being done to her physically and emotionally and mentally. The unborn living can experience that too. Some women may even commit suicide so the baby won't have to experience the same thing. Yes there are services to help women but if someone has her hostage and not will allow services given to her, she and the baby will continue to suffer. Why not save the spirit of the baby and send it to heaven before having to endure abuse and trauma..... This is a complicated issue, so it is hard to answer in a few words my view.
Brenda appeared confused and got lost multiple times, and
that's what she said. She had a hard time justifying her points because it was undeniably difficult. in contrast, Lila was confident all through out and prepared to explain particular issues about abortion.
She was deflecting. There is no case for abortion.
I couldn't watch more than 60 minutes because of how ignorant her arguments were and she kept contradicting herself.
I liked the question veto
If she would have answered the questions straight forward, she would have sounded so bad, so she had to talk around it - just words, and that is how she got lost. Abortion is killing a living human being. Period. An unwanted baby can always be adopted. Just let it have a chance at life.
Yeah that’s what happens when you’re feeling are your foundation instead of facts.
Lots of talk of “mouse wheeling” but due to lack of substantial argument she was falling into it.
"When you're pregnant, what are you pregnant with? with: "a spirit", I beg your FINEST pardon? 😭
It was the most idiotic response.
“A spirit” that miraculously becomes a human worthy of respect, life, and protection, at EXACTLY 20 weeks. Lol she’s a joke
Could u give me the exact minute please i need to watch it for
myself
Savita Halappanavar. She died because she was refused an abortion in Ireland even though she had maternal sepsis. Lila Rose Catholic views are too extreme because she doesn’t make exceptions for medical situations. Women can and have died because of pregnancy complications and the fetus is too young to live outside the womb. You get a dead mother and child rather than a live mother. Lila Rose religious views are ignorant to such situations.
Was here for THIS comment, lol. Still waiting people🤣
Her: “I don’t want to bring a baby into the world where it might die!” Also her: *kills it*
@@LoveGodLovePeople896 How old was the baby?
I’m- 😭
@@LoveGodLovePeople896 There is no comment with the age. Just say it
She’s silly. Upper middle class white woman that’s probably never experienced true violence ever is going to excuse abortion for things that will likely never happen to her lol silly
Good point😢
I see Brenda virtue signaling by bringing up assault rifles and other extremes to generate an inflammatory response, but Lila is responding with facts and not addressing the false equivalencies or misinformation. That's why she won the debate.
How are those not the same as showing dead pictures of fetuses? Lol that was literally her point in bringing that up
@@heatherromero7750 Brenda admitted she wasn't aware of what occurred during second trimester abortions. The pictures were relevant to the conversation because she needed to know.. Brenda whining about guns wasn't relevant..
@@heatherromero7750most people know (or can certainly visualise) what happens to a child shot with an assault rifle
Most people don't know (or worse, don't _care_ to know) what an abortion actually involves so misguidedly think it's 'ok'
There is your difference
It's not a false equivalency. Brenda was debating the causes of abortions, while Lila was debating the morality of abortion.
I’ve never been more pro life than I am after listening to this
People each have their own reasons & beliefs - and their beliefs are their defense. My beliefs are just as valid as yours. Neither of us should FORCE our beliefs on everyone else. That's un-American & unconstitutional.
This issue, just like every controversial issue, will never be one we all agree on. I prefer to live in a country thats not divided and polarized. We have to respect each other's beliefs. The only way we can all live in peace & harmony is to live and let live. Do what makes you happy, live according to YOUR beliefs, and allow others the same liberty! Nobody wants someone else's beliefs forced on them.
If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. If you don't believe in gay marriage, then don't marry someone with the same parts as you. Telling everyone else they can't do what's best for _them_ just because it upsets _you_ is never going to go over well. It just creates conflict.
@@ThatRedheddthats the problem, You think is a believe when is not. K1ll1ng a human is not a believe is just murder, thats the reality,not a believe
@@ThatRedhedddon’t like slavery don’t own one! Right? That’s your logic
I am a proud adoptive mother of 2 boys. It is my life’s mission to share with them how selfless and courageous both of their birth mothers were. Truly an act of love.
Yes sometimes it's an act of love a mother decides to abort
Love of Thier parents status in a church
They choose abortion because belonging in cults family were one parents practices shunning of other members
Or parents claiming to be pro life and that women and girls need to keep their legs shut
They don't talk about birthcontrol and tell their children they need to be virgins like the mother Mary before marriage
They bring in the most buiness to plan parenthood women and girls seeking abortions
Love of baby or love of the baby They not able to carry at the time
Used as an escape from rape and child molestation
.to heal
Many stories then stories that when get married they have kids they aren't running forgetting why they opt for abortions in the past
Before they become these virtuous virgins of course
I used to be very pro-choice. I appreciate debates like this that really show how weak the actual arguments for abortion are. I am now proudly pro-life!
"i am now proudly pro--life""
So what...
Nothing special happened....
Nothing of any importance...
Abortion is still legal and available to 70% of the American people....
When women’s life and mental or physical health is in danger - they need choice over their own body.
That is wonderful news. God bless you
People each have their own reasons & beliefs - and their beliefs are their defense. My beliefs are just as valid as yours. Neither of us should FORCE our beliefs on everyone else. That's un-American & unconstitutional.
This issue, just like every controversial issue, will never be one we all agree on. I prefer to live in a country thats not divided and polarized. We have to respect each other's beliefs. The only way we can all live in peace & harmony is to live and let live. Do what makes you happy, live according to YOUR beliefs, and allow others the same liberty! Nobody wants someone else's beliefs forced on them.
If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. If you don't believe in gay marriage, then don't marry someone with the same parts as you. Telling everyone else they can't do what's best for _them_ just because it upsets _you_ is never going to go over well. It just creates conflict.
@@ThatRedhedd Lame moral relativism. What you are saying is the equivalent of “if you think stealing is bad, don’t steal, just don’t force your beliefs on me”
A friend of mine experienced an unexpected pregnancy. I went with her to her doctors appointments as the father was mostly uninvolved. At the first appointment and at many appointments after, the doctor encouraged her to consider abortion. The baby was healthy, the mom had support and resources available. The doctor’s only argument was that she was not in a committed relationship with the father and would be a single mom. The doctor emphasized repeatedly how difficult this would be and kept pushing abortion even though my friend never asked for that option and repeatedly responded that she planned to remain pregnant. I was disgusted.
This is extremely concerning. Terrible doctor.
Time for a new doctor
Wow. Yes, totally unprofessional.
We are not to give any opinion outside of medical advice.
So awful and sadly, not uncommon.
This is exactly what i experienced. I was 18, single and broke. So the walk-in doctor i got to see was very persistent. I am very glad i left her and got my OBGYN who had deliveted me 18 years prior
I am a 26 year old woman. I was 19 years old when I got an abortion. This pregnancy came from the detriment of hookup culture. As a more religious woman now I see that I was not acting in the light of god by agreeing to hand over my body so readily to men I would not have procreated with if I had the option. I was broken in a broken culture and that culture also made me feel like the only choice I had was to pay some money rather than give up my life. I really wish I would have considered it more but my brain wasn’t developed. I wasn’t mature. Despite this I wish I would have had my child bc they would be 6 years old. I will never not think of them as my first child and I feel guilt and sadness.
I hope you know there is forgiveness and healing in Christ Jesus ❤ regret and sadness is a normal reaction to have to that experience but the devil wants you to be stuck in guilt and condemnation, that is not God’s will for you!
Thank you for sharing this.
Have you been connected to post-abortive counseling? Lots of women from my church have gone through these programs and they are life changing to find the healing you need. ❤
God loves you and forgives you. Your powerful testimony can be used to reach others. Many blessings!
I really want to commend you for coming to this conclusion. I will pray for you to our Heavenly Father, stay strong ❤
@@riley_4630 I have not. It’s more recently I’ve found religion and honed in on what values matter to me. I value the information you’ve given me and will look into this :-)
i used to be pro choice and when i became pro life i got harrassed by my peers and got online death threats sent to me, that's how i know i'm on the right side.
"A procedure the ends a pregnancy." My daughter's birth ended my pregnancy. But that wasn't as abortion. So clearly there's a crucial thing missing from her definition.
It’s so broad that it means nothing. It’s a euphemism.
@@celestial-mq9scMurder
That's how NHS qnd planned parenthood define abortion to make it sound normal I think 😢😢😢
Good point. So sorry for your loss. 💔
She’s wanting all the humanity taken out of the definition; meanwhile she wants to pretend to have compassion on humanity…wut
Brenda came to an abortion debate wanting to talk about anything BUT abortion. She got so annoyed whenever the Conversation was brought back to the topic at hand. That says a lot right there. Can’t defend the indefensible.
Yes, every time she answers it's some off topic thing.
She was deflecting a lot. . . while saying nothing 😑 I'm glad Lila was there
Being pro-choice _is defensible_ insomuch as people each have their own reasons & beliefs - and their beliefs are their defense. My beliefs are just as valid as yours. Neither of us should FORCE our beliefs on everyone else. That's un-American & unconstitutional.
This issue, just like every controversial issue, will never be one we all agree on. I prefer to live in a country thats not divided and polarized. We have to respect each other's beliefs. The only way we can all live in peace & harmony is to live and let live. Do what makes you happy, live according to YOUR beliefs, and allow others the same liberty! Nobody wants someone else's beliefs forced on them.
If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. If you don't believe in gay marriage, then don't marry someone with the same parts as you. Telling everyone else they can't do what's best for _them_ just because it upsets _you_ is never going to go over well. It just creates conflict.
Kindly, does your line of logic hold true if you considered other beliefs you did'nt mention? For example: If you don't like slavery, don't own a slave, if you don't like grape, don't grape, if you don't like child abuse, don't abuse your child. Should we respect the beliefs of those who think its ok to grape, own a slave, abuse children? No of course not. It's crucial we defend those who can't defend themselves, which is what the pro-life movement is attempting to do....defend the human life of the unborn which science has proven is a living, growing human being from conception. Take care. @@ThatRedhedd
Well she wanted to talk about the causes of abortions and how to actually prevent them. Instead, she was forced to defend a procedure she views as tragic (her words), as many pro-choicers often are. You'd be annoyed too.
Shame on Lila Rose for claiming to be pro-life and then proceeding to MURDER Brenda “I’m not educated on this enough” Davies in this debate! 😭
Lmao!!
😂😂
Its NOT Lila's fault that Brenda is confused about what she believes and WHY. That's Brenda's responsibility to know her WHY she believes in what she believes. ❤
😂😂😂😂
No way 😂😂😂
“I admittedly don’t know….” -Brenda. Constantly. This was extremely annoying to listen to. I don’t know how this woman has grown a following
I appreciate Brenda not acting like most pro choice angry and rude she has a heart I hope she finds the truth and becomes pro life.
i as well was incredibly grateful for her calm(er) character. i’m so tired of the immediate anger lashing and cursing towards anyone against their beliefs. like the episode of lila on dr phil? girl in the stands was losing it lolol
@@anabsanchez14 It was so difficult to watch that episode. People like those just makes me want to avoid any conversation with them.
@@tiffannyranger8134 i hear ya!!! totally
I've lost all hope for Brenda tbh
I think that Lila made some good headway and opened Brenda’s eyes A LOT, and paved the way for Brenda to change her mind. I hope this is true and I hope down the line, Brenda does
Brenda spoke about 2x more than Lila but I don’t remember anything specifically great she said. Mainly Brenda was talking in circles, contradicting herself, and when cornered and challenged on things she literally just said a few minutes prior, Brenda just laughs or goes back to an irrelevant talking point.
Lila was composed, sincere, genuine, grounded in her morals and belief, and had facts. Most importantly, Lila was consistent. It almost seemed unfair and at some point I actually pitied Brenda.
Well done, Lila! And thank you, Ellen! Pro -Life Always ❤
I've decided it's wrong to eat meat because animals are sentient, thinking, feeling, emoting beings who form bonds, recognize faces, communicate with each other, and show affection. It's immoral & unethical to oppress them, exploit them, and murder them. Those are my beliefs & they're justified. They're valid. Should I be able to _force you_ to be a vegetarian? Or, should I live according to my beliefs & allow you to do the same?
This issue, just like every controversial issue, will never be one we all agree on. I prefer to live in a country that's not divided & polarized. We have to respect each other's beliefs. The only way we can all live in peace & harmony is to live and let live. Do what makes you happy, live according to YOUR beliefs, and allow others the same liberty! Nobody wants someone else's beliefs forced on them.
I would absolutely ban the killing of animals because I am confident they deserve life and are not ours to dominate and oppress. However, telling everyone else they can't follow _their_ beliefs just because it upsets _you_ is never going to go over well. It just creates conflict.
I totally agree with you, Lila is intelligent and well spoken. Brenda just defends herself cause she knows she is wrong deep down. People usually respond negatively when someone touches a sensitive part in them.
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart
Jeremiah 1:5
Yes the bible is a very nice fictional book.
Amen!
... said God to his chosen prophet. Not to everyone.
God uses to Bible to speak to us in ways that may not be clear to you. I’m blessed enough that when I pray and ask god to provide me with the verses I need for my spirit, as soon as I turn to a page I find exactly what I need. God speaks to us all.
@@joannajett2524 but just because it was for his prophet it does not mean that he did not have the same sentiments for his creations! What proof do you have that he does not feel this about creations
I had an abortion 4 months into my relationship with my now husband. It was 100% out of fear. I have so much sadness and regret. It’s taken me 7 years to even begin to forgive myself. We now have 2 beautiful healthy children but I will always be 1 less. I don’t take my children for granted at all. I love them even more for the sadness I feel. I am now 100% pro life. Babies deserve to live. Perhaps the circumstances in which they were created was unjust, but that’s not for them to suffer at.
My grandmother was also raped and she fell pregnant to my father. My father didn’t want me and pushed my mom to abort me as well. By many accounts, I shouldn’t be here. But I am.
If you’re someone who’s considering abortion, I beg you to reconsider. You will never truly forgive yourself.
Are you a vegetarian, too?
I've decided it's wrong to eat meat because animals are sentient, thinking, feeling, emoting beings. They form bonds, learn routines, recognize faces. Pigs are as intelligent as 3-year-old children! It's immoral & unethical to oppress them, exploit them, and murder them. It's irresponsible to pollute the environment exponentially more because of the waste of millions of cows raised for slaughter. Those are my beliefs, which are justified and valid. Should I be able to _force you_ to be a vegetarian? Or, should I live according to my beliefs & allow you to do the same?
Jesus is the only way to be saved and enter eternal life, you should join His Catholic Church!
@christsavesreadromans1096 You should except CHRIST as your lord and savior and trust in him alone for the forgiveness of your sins abandon all religion and live according to the BIBLE understand that no one is good except GOD you can’t save yourself by your good deeds only GOD can save you not the catholic priests or any guru only GOD
GOD bless us and save us all
@@chasegibson3653 Jesus gave authority to His apostles to forgive sin (John 20:23), He established the church and gave Peter the keys (Matt 16:18-19), He commanded us to listen to the church (Matt 18:17), and appointed bishops over it to rule it (Acts 20:28), He endowed it with saints and miracles and healers (1 Cor 12:28), He made it the pillar and foundation of the truth (1 Tim 3:15). The church is what I will listen to, just as the Bible teaches.
Thank you so much for your testimony. God loves you so much and has forgiven you.
Your repentant heart is beautiful, and God will use you to save many more lives through sharing your testimony.
God bless you.
Proud to be a Catholic Christian and proud that Lila represents the Church's stance on this issue. She is a force.
She slays every debate
Catholics aren't real christians. but it's nice to know you are pro life
Are you a Catholic or a Christian? Can’t serve two masters
“Swindlers and scoundrels talk out of both sides of their mouths. They wink at each other, they shuffle their feet, they cross their fingers behind their backs. Their perverse minds are always cooking up something nasty, always stirring up trouble. Catastrophe is just around the corner for them, a total wreck, their lives ruined beyond repair. Here are six things God hates, and one more that he loathes with a passion: eyes that are arrogant, a tongue that lies, hands that murder the innocent, a heart that hatches evil plots, feet that race down a wicked track, a mouth that lies under oath, a troublemaker in the family. Good friend, follow your father’s good advice; don’t wander off from your mother’s teachings. Wrap yourself in them from head to foot; wear them like a scarf around your neck. Wherever you walk, they’ll guide you; whenever you rest, they’ll guard you; when you wake up, they’ll tell you what’s next. For sound advice is a beacon, good teaching is a light, moral discipline is a life path. They’ll protect you from promiscuous women, from the seductive talk of some temptress. Don’t lustfully fantasize on her beauty, nor be taken in by her bedroom eyes. You can buy an hour with a prostitute for a loaf of bread, but a promiscuous woman may well eat you alive. Can you build a fire in your lap and not burn your pants? Can you walk barefoot on hot coals and not get blisters? It’s the same when you have sex with your neighbor’s wife: Touch her and you’ll pay for it. No excuses. Hunger is no excuse for a thief to steal; When he’s caught he has to pay it back, even if he has to put his whole house in hock. Adultery is a brainless act, soul-destroying, self-destructive; Expect a bloody nose, a black eye, and a reputation ruined for good. For jealousy detonates rage in a cheated husband; wild for revenge, he won’t make allowances. Nothing you say or pay will make it all right; neither bribes nor reason will satisfy him.”
Proverbs 6:12-35 MSG
bible.com/bible/97/pro.6.12-35.MSG
Wasn’t it said that in the Bible, life begins with the first breath? 💀
I love how Lila tried to make sure that she understood Brenda's position on the issue rather than just explaining her own position.
Fellow pro-lifers (and anyone really) don’t forget to pray for Lila. She needs prayer warriors as the enemy must hate her. Pray for Lila 🙏🏻 . Lord please continue to guide, protect and use Lila. Please continue to give her your words so that she may speak truth into those that are confused. Please provide her with protection and many blessings as she is truly fighting for human rights of your most susceptible beloved children.
THIS!!!!
Amen 🙏🏾
AMEN
Amen 🙏🏼
I thought about this recently. How much dark forces must despise what an absolute radiant force she is for is in this fight. God bless her and her family. ❤
I was already pro-life but man…. This debate was a very clear indicator that “pro-choice” people cannot actually define what an abortion actually is….
It's an indicator that ONE PERSON SUCKS at articulating the arguments of pro-choice people.
Are you a vegetarian, too?
I've decided it's wrong to eat meat because animals are sentient, thinking, feeling, emoting beings. They form bonds, learn routines, recognize faces. Pigs are as intelligent as 3-year-old children! It's immoral & unethical to oppress them, exploit them, and murder them. It's irresponsible to pollute the environment exponentially more because of the waste of millions of cows raised for slaughter. Those are my beliefs, which are justified and valid. Should I be able to _force you_ to be a vegetarian? Or, should I live according to my beliefs & allow you to do the same?
There’s a lot of words they can’t define yet identify with it.
Watch the Whatever podcast with Destiny literally crapping all over Lylas points when it comes to prochoice vs prolife
My dad aged out of the foster system. If someone out there decided it was better for him not to live vs being in the foster system, I would not be here. He would be the first to say it wasn't easy but if he was aborted, he would not have met my mom, had me and my siblings, and had his successful career. I hate it when people assume that a baby will have a horrible life just because they have to be in the foster/adoption system. Life is hard, no matter the circumstances, but life is beautiful.
Yes but the foster and group home system in America is filled with abuse and neglect, and that leaves lasting impacts on the human psyche. The pro-life movement never talks about this how getting abused in a system messes you up for life. Trauma is biologically proven to change your brain and I am someone who live through the group home system two times as a kid.. yes life always has challenges, but dealing with abuse is more than just having some trauma as a kid it leaves a lasting impact in a negative way, which prevents you from living a full life for many people
I was 19 when I became pregnant, I very nearly had an abortion, appointment booked and all, thank God I changed my mind. So many women choose abortion out of fear of the unknown, we should be reminding women how STRONG and POWERFUL they are, not encouraging them to give into fear and misinformation. My daughter is now 3, I'm not very well off and I am currently working towards a degree, but I have never had more purpose and meaning in my life, life can be hard, but I regret nothing, the future is bright and my daughter is beautiful.
I love this so much! Thank you for sharing. I wish journeys like your were elevated more often!!!
All power and best of luck to you and your lovely daughter ❤🙏🏻
Yes! Mothers who give birth don't ever wish they aborted their child, but so many mothers regret having an abortion and never being able to see their child's face!
Amen 💜💜💜
amen!
I love how Brenda constantly goes back and forth between saying “women who are pregnant” and “pregnant people” she doesn’t even fully believe her own woke ideology. I’m not a pregnant person, a bleeder, a uterus owner, a chest feeder, I am a woman. A woman is an adult human female. Only women can be mothers. I am biologically designed to create, sustain, and bring life into this world. No man will ever take that God given ability from me. Not even the woke labelers.
The argument from the left is always, well what do you call a woman that is not able to get pregnant? Is she still considered a woman?
I call them an unfortunate exception. And that does not eliminate the scientific biological fact that human females were created to carry and birth a new life, not males.
yes!
It's in the woman's body ffs. She should have the choice. Of all the sentient adult stakeholders in the world, her stake is higher than everyone else's combined. Thus its her choice
@@trevornunn3285 She had the choice in the bedroom. She does not have a choice to kill another human being.
Amen! Love it
Summary: “I feel” versus “the truth is.”
I think it’s really scary how Brenda is convinced she is a christian.
YES YES YES YES. THANK YOU.
Seriously! And im sorry but you’re not a Christian if you’re pro choice. Idc what ppl say. You cannot kill someone for your “convenience.”
Totally.
So do I
I think it's even scarier that you think you have the right judge whether someone's a Christian or not.
Best part is you know Lila is praying for Brenda. Lila is a gift to human kind.
WALKING SAINT!!!!
It's bad news for all women when any country lets women be treated like second class citizens or worse, as objects.
It's really bad news when a major country that produces so much media that the rest of the world consumes goes backwards on women's rights.
If the lack of abortion access doesn't kill you, giving birth just might. There's also always the risk of being murdered by a cop or incel mass shooter. Don't worry, even if you survive it all, the medical bills will leave you homeless. Good luck with the hostile architecture!
Also, I'm sure that Republicans want the female population miserable. Not only can they control them easier, but it satisfies their sadistic desires. They've always wanted to hurt people without consequences, and with this money and power, they can.
Lila is eligible for Sainthood, FACTS
The same people who oppose abortion:
Allow 3,000 child deaths yearly by firearms.
Let 9 million kids lose healthcare
Are separating kids and parents through deportation
Refuse help to refugee families seeking safety
Want to cut free school lunch programs
They're not pro-life, they're just pro-birth.
I walked into this conversation as a pro-life person, and my opinion has not changed after watching this video. In fact, I’m even more confident in my pro-life position.
Lord to see women ok being baby killers baffle me
You also used to believe in Santa. 🤣Ya'll all the same
@@hubbyhaqq9802 at least we don't kill baby's bc it's a choice u can make
this is honestly scary the women don’t want other women to choose whether not to keep it. it’s scary women don’t want people to have a choice. what about rape?? incest?? forced pregnancy isn’t ok
@@jjprentiss9192 exactly!
I had a horrible childhood. Wretched. I was suicidal and wished i was never born. I was in fostercare i married my huband who was in fostercare for his entire life. His childhood was even worse than mine. When we got together we were homeless and starving. The only fanily available to us didnt love us or was dead from drug overdose. It took a long time to finally get back on our feet. With the help of government funded programs therapy and god im solid on my feet. Im not afraid of life anymore.
Now im happy to be alive. My life is hard but im tough bc of it and resilient. My husband is happy to be here and alive.
It breaks my heart that someone would want me dead as an unborn baby or as a fetus bc they thought the world wasnt qualified enough for me...... Dont underestimate me or future children like that..... We're alot stronger than prochoicers give us credit for.
It would have been selfish of my mother to abort me sinply because she felt sje couldnt provide. The reality is there are plenty of options for adotpion or fostercare. Fostercare isnt always a bad thing like a lot of people make it out to be. Yeah fostercare is hard especially for ones with irrisponsible care givers that are abusive. But it doesnt mean someone should die just because life is hard for them.
I agree with Lila we as communities need to take responsibility for the children who arent aborted. We need to focus on resources for them. There are resources available im loving proof of that. My 2 beautiful neices and 1 beautiful nephew were put into fostercare to then be adopted 3 years later. Theyre happy and full of life. Its hard for them but its not unworthy or impossible for them to live. And they dont want to die.
Thank you for sharing your story. Yours is an important one so that folks can see that what you are born into doesn't define your entire life. ❤
Are you a vegetarian, too?
I've decided it's wrong to eat meat because animals are sentient, thinking, feeling, emoting beings. They form bonds, learn routines, recognize faces. Pigs are as intelligent as 3-year-old children! It's immoral & unethical to oppress them, exploit them, and murder them. It's irresponsible to pollute the environment exponentially more because of the waste of millions of cows raised for slaughter. Those are my beliefs, which are justified and valid. Should I be able to _force you_ to be a vegetarian? Or, should I live according to my beliefs & allow you to do the same?
Excactly
I am glad you are both alive.
Almost forgot Lila was the Pro-Life side for a second with the way she murdered this debate!
😂😂😂💯💯💯
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
She's disgusting, which is afforded by her privileges, and she does not represent the majority actually affected by adversity. Have some more wine because we all know white people love Alcohol amnesia. Her aggressive overtalking is likely present outside of debates, and I'm sure it's fun being in her family
😂 yes!
I tip my hat off to you. Bravo.
As newlyweds, we were not ready to have a baby , as we planned to have our first 5 years in. The first thing my doctor said was " You don't have to have it", but my immediate reaction was " No way, I already love my precious child" Our precious child is the most amazing adult now ♥Life is SACRED. We have no right to take it away!!!
Prochoice doctors need to DO BETTER
As NEWLYWEDS, you were able to afford a wedding, probably had a bed to sleep in. By not ready? What do you mean? Because it seems you were ready?
The abortion I had didn't feel like a choice. It was a necessity.
@@jessebelle336 I wanted to do more schooling, travel, etc. We had a house and we didn't suffer economically, but we wanted to have kids later on. SOmetimes things don't go as planned and we couldn't be happier now.Our kids are the best!!!
I’m confused. I don’t think saying you masturbated at 3 is a good argument to teach sexual comprehension to young kids. Something about that screams trauma and not normal curiosity
It is normal though. Most children do it.
@@joannajett2524absolutely not normal! Alfred Kinsey a sick sexologist that worked with child rapist to prove that children can consent to sex and orgasim, also thought it was normal. Rapist were raping and molesting their own children to be part of this sick resreach. Absolutely disgusting of you to think this.
@joannajett2524 but the children do not associate it with sex, and not all children masterbate young. Each child develops at a different rate, so teaching sex at one certain age, doesn't make sense.
@@societaldecay Yeah, but it is still normal curiosity and not trauma as OP claims.
It does make sense to teach things according to the usual development of children, like teaching about puberty before it starts. Of course some will develop earlier and some later, that's unavoidable.
If it is "normal" then it doesn't need be taught. If she did it at 3 then she didn't need to be taught. I'm disgusted that they would even call it masterbation. Kids are curious and it is normal to be curious about their bodies. It is not sexual. It's predatory in my opinion for an adult that is not a parent or guardian to talk to such a young minor about "masterbating" and even touching themselves. It's awkward as a teenager to be talked to by a teacher about sex, I can't imagine being a 1st grader laughing about butts and a teacher talking to me about masterbating. The fact that she feels no shame in agreeing with that is TERRIFYING. Calling it predatory is not a fear tactic, that is what it is! You are asking parents and children to turn off their instinctual alarms to "normalize" these conversations in schools with children.
A lesson here is that not everyone should represent their positions in public if one hasn't thoroughly studied and debated the opposition's view in private.
Perfect way to word it
The whole pro-choice argument is incoherent. She's answering honestly.
1000% I've watched and revisited this video several times over the last few days. I was understanding where Brenda was trying to go, but she wasn't armed with data/statistics/facts and struggled to argue her point.
@@nflama that's because her position is incoherent. No amount of data/statistics/facts would have helped her case.
Completely agree. I am surprised about the amount of opinion and feelings that were coming from the pro choice side. I think it would have been beneficial if she had taken the time to do some research. I was very impressed with the opposing sides facts and clear concise and factual statements. I learned a lot from here that I wasn't aware of. She made many valid points.
I was convinced to be pro choice as a young child by my mother. I’m almost 40 and finally allowed myself to view some videos by former planned parenthood doctors and staff. I was horrified. I now believe that pro life IS pro woman.
Yes 🙌🏻 bring life into this world is one of the most empowering thing a women can do! And only women can do it ❤
Congratulations!!!
I've decided it's wrong to eat meat because animals are sentient, thinking, feeling, emoting beings who form bonds, recognize faces, communicate with each other, and show affection. It's immoral & unethical to oppress them, exploit them, and murder them. Those are my beliefs & they're justified. They're valid. Should I be able to _force you_ to be a vegetarian? Or, should I live according to my beliefs & allow you to do the same?
This issue, just like every controversial issue, will never be one we all agree on. I prefer to live in a country that's not divided & polarized. We have to respect each other's beliefs. The only way we can all live in peace & harmony is to live and let live. Do what makes you happy, live according to YOUR beliefs, and allow others the same liberty! Nobody wants someone else's beliefs forced on them.
I would absolutely ban the killing of animals because I am confident they deserve life and are not ours to dominate and oppress. However, telling everyone else they can't follow _their_ beliefs just because it upsets _you_ is never going to go over well. It just creates conflict.
Lila Rose is the reason I am pro-life today. I saw ONE of the abortion procedure videos on her channel, binged watched the rest and I am so thankful. Knowledge is power!!
Let me ask you. Since you cannot provide any proof that anyone has ever aborted a perfectly healthy baby in the 3rd trimester, why do you think you should pass laws to stop something that isn't occurring?
I'll tell you why. Because the “pro life” liars are all about control. They don't give a good goddamn about the “unborn.” If they actually believed life is sacred and should be protected, why aren't they concerned about making sure that child has access to medical care after it is born? Why aren't they lifting a finger to stop the gun violence? Why aren't they concerned about children drinking poisonous water or going to rat infested schools or living in the streets? Why aren't they concerned about making sure that child's parents, who were also once “pre-born,” earn a living wage, have the child tax credit, affordable child care, early childhood education and food to eat?
Absolutely no one aborts a healthy pregnancy in the 3rd trimester. This is yet another LIE that pro-life hypocrites tell and weak minded assholes believe.
But the bottom line is, there should be NO laws telling a woman they don't have the right to make whatever medical decision is chosen between her and her medical provider.
Name me ONE law that tells men what kind of Healthcare they may or may not seek. Show me one law that even suggests controlling a man's axes to whatever medical care he wants and can afford.
Many, many pro-lifers haven’t thought things through and are supporting things they don’t intend to. The official pro-life position is monstrous. Most pro-lifers aren’t wicked monsters - but neither is a toddler with a loaded uzi. (And as with a toddler with a loaded uzi the root problem is the people who gave the toddler the uzi.)
First off, I’m going to grasp the nettle. The Roman Catholic position on abortion is that in the event of an ectopic pregnancy you may not directly remove the embryo to save the mother’s life but may remove the entire infected fallopian tube. The Roman Catholic position is one of fatuous casuistry which unnecessarily maims women (by removing fallopian tubes) all so those at the top can avoid the complexities of biology and morality.
Ordering the unnecessary maiming of women so you can avoid facing the complexities of the world is the position of a wicked monster. The positions of individual Catholics may or may not agree with the teachings of the church and may or may not be carefully considered.
Second the position of the Pro-lifers who want an outright abortion ban and work to ensure the lack of provision is monstrous. Abortion, in cases including ectopic pregnancies (where the embryos implant on the wrong site), is a life-saving medical procedure. By working to destroy the possibility of abortions the pro-lifers are working against life saving medical care. (And no ectopic pregnancies can’t be reimplanted no matter what pro-life lawmakers want).
Third the very common position of Pro-lifers as being anti-contraception is monstrous. Apparently you guys think that abortion is murder - but murder is less important than sperm being wasted. If you actually were doing more than jerking off about abortion you would actually want things that work to lower the abortion rate. Like contraception and effective sex education (i.e. not “abstinence only”). Planned Parenthood does more to lower the abortion rate than the entire pro-life movement combined does.
Fourth forcing a pregnant woman to carry a non-viable foetus to term is also monstrous. An embryo without functional lungs will never become a living, breathing human being. This can’t be tested for before about 20 weeks so is normally done about week 21. Forcing someone to carry a steadily growing foetus from week 22 (when diagnosed) to about week 40 (expected delivery), while the foetus is continually feeding off their body and is going to be dead straight after delivery is monstrous. Likewise a foetus without a brain. Or numerous other cases.
A non-monstrous position that thinks that abortion is bad is “safe, legal, and rare”. How do you make abortion rare without banning it (and with it life saving medical care)? Simple. You attack the demand side.
You make sure that as few people as possible get accidentally pregnant
You provide comprehensive sex education (remember that abstinence only does not work)
You provide free contraception - including emergency contraception (the so-called “Morning After Pill”) as that’s contraception and prevents conception
You ensure that pregnancy isn’t an overwhelming financial burden on anyone and they aren’t forced to abort for financial reasons
You provide free maternity care
You, like just about every other country in the world provide paid parental leave
You ensure they aren’t forced to give up the babies after birth for financial reason; you have a generous welfare system
This actively works to lower the abortion rate. Meanwhile trying to reverse all this increases the abortion rate and makes it clear that the anti-choice movement is more interested in punishing women for sex than it is in actively doing what they claim is saving lives.
If you don’t have the mental maturity to be pregnant then you shouldn’t be pregnant, you’re bring a kid into the world that’s a giant responsibility and if you’re not ready for that you either need to consider abortion or adoption and I would not burden your kids with the feelings of being unwanted you can’t assume they’ll be adopted. Lila assumes every mother wants too be a mother.
@@Demonoicgamer666there is choice of abstinence, there us always a choice l, always think before you do stuff.
@@Demonoicgamer666 Lila doesn’t assume everyone wants to be a mother. She assumes that killing a child isn’t right(which it isn’t), and that there’s better options for women
“Comprehensive sex Ed” and “five years old” are two phrases I NEVER want to hear used together
Yep, absolutely disgusting. I’d keep her specifically away from my kids just for saying that.
I can tell Brenda knows better. I wish Lilia would just say “Brenda, you’re free to change your mind - it’s okay, come to this side - no judgement for changing your mind”.
She knows she can’t because she’s too invested.
I was thinking this too. I think the change of heart would generally come at some point after the discussion is over, for one when she's not on camera, and two, when she's had time to consider it all.
She won’t. Not yet. But she might. Honestly, I believe that if Brenda is a true follower of Jesus she will eventually change her mind. God and His word will convict her. It may take time, as we are all learning and growing, but I have hope for her.
My friend was exactly like this for a long time. She knew she was wrong, she understood every single justification of hers was wrong, and it took over a year of conversations and heart searching before she finally made up her mind to be pro-life.
@@sarahs.9678well too late. She already misguided thousands and thousands of her followers
@@mmafan8861 Too late for what? For her to change and positively influence others? Definitely not.
Lila: What are you pregnant with?
Brenda: Um a spirit
Lila: So are you okay with killing a spirit?
Brenda: I believe energy moves, I don’t think you can kill a spirit
She totally just contradicted her own argument!?!??!!!
Actually, no. This is the only point she's right about.
The baby has a spirit, a consciousness, life energy which in case of death is simply going back to the source. That energy is not going to die.
(You don't need to be afraid of death because there's no hell, nothing to be afraid of. Your spirit / soul / consciousness / energy is simply leaving the physical body and going back to the source (kind of God, the creator of everything). 👍🏻❤️😊
What she's wrong about is that the one in the womb is a spirit. No, it is a baby with the same right to life as every other human being.
By her own belief, she shouldn't have any issue with children being killed by assault rifles if it's impossible to 'kill a spirit'
She's not even close to consistent in her arguments and beliefs
@@astroterf. Children are aware and sentient. Embryos are not.
That pro abortion lady came SOOO unprepared. Doesn't know any specifics, only came to the interview with her feelings about it... It also seems that she spoke to like 20 people and is now calling herself a representative of those people. She has in front of her a REAL advocate with facts, knowledge, programs, and thousands of people she helps and spoke to. She stood no chance.
The crazy thing is she has a book about this, a pro choice, advocate, and “educates” people on abortion, but clearly in this video, she just plainly doesn’t know anything about abortion. I cannot even call this a debate, the other side, and not even answer questions which were the main topics or issue that was being brought up on this video. Mind blowing.
@@gemmiefythe pro choice movement was built on a house of cards
Are you a vegetarian, too?
I've decided it's wrong to eat meat because animals are sentient, thinking, feeling, emoting beings. They form bonds, learn routines, recognize faces. Pigs are as intelligent as 3-year-old children! It's immoral & unethical to oppress them, exploit them, and murder them. It's irresponsible to pollute the environment exponentially more because of the waste of millions of cows raised for slaughter. Those are my beliefs, which are justified and valid. Should I be able to _force you_ to be a vegetarian? Or, should I live according to my beliefs & allow you to do the same?
My doctor suggested, in fact PRESSURED, abortion with my 3rd because she was supposed to be born with a rare genetic disorder that would slowly kill her. I did not get the abortion. She is beautiful and HEALTHY. No disorder. A completely normal baby. And even if she wasn’t, I would love her the same.
Lila came up with her responses in a quick, thoughtful, and educated manner each time. I believe she was able to do this, not only because she’s a great debater, but mainly because what she is saying is the truth. If you’re speaking the truth, you won’t need to skirt around anything, or hesitate, etc., it will just flow.
😅 absolutely. I was confused. She wasn't asked to explain rocket science. I wonder if she believes that truth is subjective, which is why she avoided answering yes or no.
Lila cares more about the financial support that Planned Parenthood is getting than any unborn babies. Greed almost always is a great motivator in a debate. Anyone believing this is about the precious babies I feel sorry for.
@southernbelladonna78
How is Lila greedy? She doesn’t gain anything financially by successfully defunding planned parenthood. And the reason she wants to take away funding for them is because they provide abortions and she wants to stop that, therefore she does care about unborn babies. Defunding them doesn’t put more money in her pocket compared to not defunding them, so I don’t really understand how she’s greedy.
I think the people you should really feel sorry for are the babies killed in abortions every day. Not the ones trying to save them.
@@oliviamathis1057 the real victims are the unwanted babies that will be forced into a life of poverty, deprived of love and proper care and the foster care system for many. Forced birth is not the solution and if you don't understand why, then you aren't far enough into the situation to really know what you are talking about. If you do understand why but still support forcing birth then you're more sadistic then anything and only care about control. That's a LOT of unwanted children, what kind of life do you think they will have when there is still childhood hunger and poverty for the WANTED babies? Seriously, what do you think happens once these precious angels are born? Seriously I would love to hear your solution after you've forced these babies into existence.
@southernbelladonna78
Talking about solutions to providing for unwanted babies is another topic separate from abortion (although it can be related in some aspects), and I’m sure we can both agree that the US and other countries can do better in taking care of those children in unfortunate circumstances.
Do you think killing these children because they may end up in unfortunate situations is the best solution? I don’t think so. I would rather give them a chance at life. If you think abortion is the solution to preventing a child from going into poverty, then why not just kill all the children in poverty right now? They’re suffering, right? And it seems your solution to suffering, or potential suffering, is death. I think the solution is giving people a chance at life and making the system as a whole better so less children are brought into unfortunate circumstances. Killing preborn children is not going to solve anyone’s poverty. We have to find ways to fix poverty in itself instead of just killing preborn children that may be born into it.
She is using abortion as the solution for all the societal issues. If she put this amount of energy into making the positive changes needed to the foster system etc she would be an incredibly strong force for good
Sadly, Brenda is a good representation of most pro choicers.. when theyre actually forced to sit down and logically defend abortion, they cant explain it and they "keep getting lost"
Exactly, she couldn’t give a concrete answer to a single question. Meanwhile Lila’s answers are more direct and in detail and actually have a solid foundation. You don’t see Lila struggling to answer any questions because it really is that simple. Brenda is trying to make killing a child, or life and death so complex when sometimes it’s just as simple as saying “abortion is in fact killing a human child”
@@brandonherbert4517Yes!!! The “pro-choice” arguments are Satanic, demonic, racist, eugenicist, Nazi, and 💯 % asinine! Life begins at conception! I’m a diehard pro-lifer and an abortion abolitionist! Abortions increase the risk of breast cancer by six times!
@@brandonherbert4517It doesn't matter, autonomy of the body comes first. We don't force people to give up body parts to help others live.
@@aisnow5788 that’s not the first human right that we gain as humans. The first and foremost right we all have as humans. Is the right to life, the right not be killed. Your putting adults choices over every child’s right to live. The most vulnerable people in our society are children. Bodily autonomy is something we gain when we have the capacity to do so. A baby in the womb doesn’t have the ability to make a choice. So it’s not our right to make a choice for them when it’s literally them living or not living. It should not be up to us to if those children get to live or die. Because we already have a system where we chose people’s death, it’s called death row, and we have that for the worst people of society. Why the fuck would we do that to innocent babies in a sense that we are choosing their fate. It’s honestly a very god complex mindset.
@@aisnow5788 and why would we force anyone to give people body parts, when someone needs a transplant it’s most likely someone that just happened to have issues, or someone who made bad choices in their lives that required them to need a transplant of some sort. And as far as transplants, children are at the top of the list, because they are still top priority. So the argument of “we don’t force people to give body parts” that’s a completely different thing and doesn’t really correlate with the actual abortion issue.
Brenda’s argument seems more like a failed attempt at regurgitating info she’s heard rather than truly understanding the words coming out of her mouth
I’ll save you 3 hours.
Brenda (several times) says the muck and mire is too complicated to get in to and has absolutely no defence for her position.
Lila is collected and polite and intelligent and can answer every question clearly and precisely.
Don’t kill babies.
That’s unfortunate. I am SO desperate to know how these people think and I want to give them all of the goodwill I would expect to receive, but it seems like the answer always is that they don’t think.
@@daveyjoneslocker4703 I agree. I wish just for once that someone could explain the position rationally.
How convenient is it that one’s opinion is too complicated to explain?
@@Janieandtheboys17
The Pro-choice argument can be summed up in one word….
Liberty…..
A woman has the right to decide if/when/how many children she bears, and how much pain she suffers…..
This is an individual decision, not a state one…
There’s some things that can’t be forced at gunpoint, not even childbirth….
“””don’t kill babies””
If that’s all she said, that’s pretty darn easy to say…..
so why is she lauded as some great debater?…..
The issue is ENFORCING it….
The issue is public policy…..
How do you force a woman to stay pregnant against her will without violating her rights, her Liberty or her privacy?…..
three things we cherish in America?….
We know how Nazi Germany or Saudi Arabia would do it….
but America, the cradle of liberty?…..
@@hexl702too5Ironic you bring up Nazi Germany while championing elective baby killing.
My mom had really bad preeclampsia when she was pregnant with my sister. I believe the only reason both my sister and mom are alive is because we lived in Nashville in a pretty “pro life” area and the doctors literally did EVERYTHING to save my sister and my mom! My sister was delivered still a fetus, she was delivered 4 months early and only weight 1 lb and the rest of her developed in an incubator. But now she’s is a full growth, perfectly healthy adult, she has absolutely no health problems and my mom is very healthy too! But I have a feeling if she was born in todays times, she would’ve been suggested to be aborted and I don’t believe the doctors would do their job to save her life.
Your sister’s story is absolutely amazing! I’m studying to be a doctor and this is what motivates me 🤍
🥰
Amen
Medical miracle. Awesome !
Brenda is trying to defend an emotional stance.
Lila is debating with logic and facts. Emotions are hard to defend as we witnessed Brenda try to do.
She called her aborted baby a spirit because she doesn't want to face the truth. It was a baby.
I feel bad for her because she "feels" her position is right.
So many people "feel" the same way she does on an emotional level. I'm glad Brenda didn't walk out.
Great debate.
She can’t accept the aborted baby as a baby because that would make the whole house of cards collapse.
Yes, sir. Brenda is simply trying to justify her past choice to kill her baby. She doesn't want to address the central issue, whether an unborn baby is a human being, because she refuses to accept the moral conclusion of accepting scientific truth. She pretends that "everyone has their own opinion on when life begins", as if biology were a matter of personal opinion, because she knows deep down that her murdered baby was as human as she is. Everything she says is pure b.s., designed to muddy the water. It's really very simple: do not kill innocent human beings.
I agree, she is very flippy floppy, and all over the place, because she don't want to face facts, facts that still hurts her because of her decision.
my thoughts were very similar. I really hope she does admit that she did an act that killed a baby, comes to terms on the facts, but is able to heal from it.
Covid has proven it was never about "My body my choice"
How so?
@@ThatRedhedd The people who usually screamed my body my choice said nothing about the government violating everyone's bodies by coercing them to take the jab.
Covid showed everyone is a hypocrite. Left, right, lib, christian. Survival is no1, principles are way down the list.
@@StudSnobI disagree since no one was forced to follow these protocol but pro life are forcing people to have a pregnancy they may not want and if you are pro life that includes people in your community so you should protect them as well
@@neigeepierrot4694 I agree in practice with the pro choice camp but in theory, it is ending an innocent life.
Im glad its legal where I live, but idk if i would have it in me to make it legal if it was up to me.
We were forced to take the jabs.
People were threatened with losing their jobs if they didnt wear masks and later if they didnt take the jab. You couldnt walk into a store without someone bothering you to put your. mask right.
In Greece, they introduced a fine for seniors, Austria was going to make vaccines mandatory otherwise you pay 4k every month.Truckers in Canada were also threatened.
Then Putin invaded Ukraine and just like that, Covid was no longer a thing. All the authoritarians among us dropped the act of ,,caring,,.
As young women we are indoctrinated to be on birth control and pro choice. We were told it was empowering for women. I had never even heard a pro-life argument until my mid-30's because I never internally questioned my beliefs. It took one logical argument for me to hear from a pro-life debate and just like that I became pro-life overnight. The logic is sound and this debate just proves that further. .
I feel I got indoctrinated that way. Went on birth control at 16 years and never heard a pro-life argument.
When we tried to get pregnant I educated myself on fertility awareness, and this is something I'm definitely gonna teach my daughter later ❤
“”” I never heard a pro-life argument till my mid 30s”””
Lol silly!….
Are you accusing the forced-birthers of doing a lousy job?….
They’re gonna be awful pissed off….
they’ve been screeching“murder!” for 50 years…..
They hollered till they’re blue in the face……
They’ve had plenty of presidents, politicians, activist groups with million-dollar budgets, religious leaders, half the American people….
How’s THAT for a megaphone?…..
Glad you were open to even hearing a different opinion/outlook.
If you don’t mind me asking where did you hear or read the information at that changed your outlook?
@anne8533
Should women be forced into continuing a pregnancy they don’t want?….
And how does a society force them?….
Answer as LOGICALLY as you like!
I've decided it's wrong to eat meat because animals are sentient, thinking, feeling, emoting beings who form bonds, recognize faces, communicate with each other, and show affection. It's immoral & unethical to oppress them, exploit them, and murder them. Those are my beliefs & they're justified. They're valid. Should I be able to _force you_ to be a vegetarian? Or, should I live according to my beliefs & allow you to do the same?
This issue, just like every controversial issue, will never be one we all agree on. I prefer to live in a country that's not divided & polarized. We have to respect each other's beliefs. The only way we can all live in peace & harmony is to live and let live. Do what makes you happy, live according to YOUR beliefs, and allow others the same liberty! Nobody wants someone else's beliefs forced on them.
I would absolutely ban the killing of animals because I am confident they deserve life and are not ours to dominate and oppress. However, telling everyone else they can't follow _their_ beliefs just because it upsets _you_ is never going to go over well. It just creates conflict.
Came as pro life….leaving as pro life. 🙏🏼💕
The fact that we are still discussing Roe Vs. Wade is disheartening. What happened? Is humanity regressing? The 99% increase is terrible. Obviously domestic violence already has been an issue. Yet such a sharp increase clearly demonstrates exactly what was expected. Used as a weapon against a person/people facing a very important and sometimes difficult decision.
This is not even about gender. It’s about morality and how we shape the narrative of personal choice. I could have told the mother of my children I did not want them. It is was always her choice, not mine. I am proud of my children and love them immensely. I wanted children also, but it was not my choice. I’m glad she chose to be a mother.
Yet again, it was her choice, not mine. These motherfuckers who think they can manipulate a woman into bearing their seed need grow up well beyond a sense of morals and awareness beyond the self.
Came as pro choice, leaving as pro choice ✍🏼
Same here ❤
Same - Brenda lost me in the first 15 minutes - it's really NOT complicated
The pro-life position is concrete, 'pro-choice' is all over the place
I find that they can't/won't directly answer questions because they know they will contradict themselves all the time
@@astroterf. What is concrete about a faulty position? I can directly answer you any question....that you dont understand them is a problem you can try to fix or I can....Tell me, how do you consider it pro life to control someone elses life? Are you a farmer? Are women your cows? Is that better than letting people decide for themself?
Brenda came to debate abortions with no knowledge about what happens during an abortion…
When she said they don't dismember them... I was shook. Like, honestly honey?! Whe must've only consulted planned parenthood abortionists about how an abortion is performed because that's exactly what they had told my friend too. She would've had an abortion if she hadn't gone to a second doctor who actually explained how it took place and what the baby felt.
blew my mind lol
@@kelgirl99this is most likely why we have repeat abortions. It’s triumph of ideology over obvious reality. That’s how people justify killing a baby. People want to believe what they believe.
I've decided it's wrong to eat meat because animals are sentient, thinking, feeling, emoting beings who form bonds, recognize faces, communicate with each other, and show affection. It's immoral & unethical to oppress them, exploit them, and murder them. Those are my beliefs & they're justified. They're valid. Should I be able to _force you_ to be a vegetarian? Or, should I live according to my beliefs & allow you to do the same?
This issue, just like every controversial issue, will never be one we all agree on. I prefer to live in a country that's not divided & polarized. We have to respect each other's beliefs. The only way we can all live in peace & harmony is to live and let live. Do what makes you happy, live according to YOUR beliefs, and allow others the same liberty! Nobody wants someone else's beliefs forced on them.
I would absolutely ban the killing of animals because I am confident they deserve life and are not ours to dominate and oppress. However, telling everyone else they can't follow _their_ beliefs just because it upsets _you_ is never going to go over well. It just creates conflict.
@@ThatRedheddHuman life isn’t comparable to animal life. Abortion should be illegal for all.
Read these comments and you’ll see two repeating sentiments, “I had the baby and it was the best thing that ever happened to me.” And, “I regret ending it.” The “choice” is clear, it never truly works the other way; an abortion is never the best thing that happened to someone, and I challenge anybody to find the person who regretted the child.
Lila: So, you're saying that it's better for a foster care child to not exist? To not be alive? It's better for them to be killed... it's better for a foster care child to be dead?"
Brenda: "Not after they're alive.
Lila: Well, in order to abort someone they have to be alive.
Lila absolutely decimated Brenda. 😂
Forced-birthers always think they decimate pro-choicers….
they just can’t decimate abortion itself…..
It’s still legal and available to 70% of the American people even after
Dobbs ruling…..
And this past year, abortion rights have won in every election they were on the ballot…..
Who destroyed who, again?
She truly did. I do feel bad for Brenda because the internal battle she has is apparent… her whole argument is solely to justify her own experience
@@ThinkingNat2
Prochoicers decimated the forced-birthers again!….
Abortions resumed in Wisconsin…..
A judge said an old law didn’t ban them after all…..
Forced-birthers think they win debates….
But pro choicers win elections and court decisions….
That’s far more important…..
Brenda is so lame, seriously
@@ThinkingNat2I could see that as well. I hope she can find peace.
As someone who was on the fence with this issue, the prolife person convinced me and brought me to the prolife side.
Good!
Welcome to the side of living in reality and logic over feelings :)
Let’s go! Welcome!
we welcome you Rolando!
Praise be to God!
The comments I’m seeing on this video are so encouraging. I couldn’t believe the lack of consistency, education and preparation on Brenda’s part. Lila had so many opportunities to point that out but instead stuck to being a great debater and tried to help Brenda see the logical, consistent perspective Lila was presenting. A big win for the pro life, pro women AND babies movement ❤️
What you might consider an airtight argument isn’t likely to be one. Facts indicate that a collection of undifferentiated cells are not the same as an adult human or even a newborn human. It is alive like any other cells are alive in anyone’s body be it a kidney cell or a liver cell or a tumor cell. It isn’t sentient it is no more than a cell which divides.
Later in a pregnancy it develops a brain and organs but at the stage where about 85% of abortion happen it isn’t a human being, it is cells which might be human if it develops.
I was raised in an evangelical household where the Bible was read, the bible says life begins with the first breath. sounds reasonable to me.
So trot out your supposed argument.
I've decided it's wrong to eat meat because animals are sentient, thinking, feeling, emoting beings who form bonds, recognize faces, communicate with each other, and show affection. It's immoral & unethical to oppress them, exploit them, and murder them. Those are my beliefs & they're justified. They're valid. Should I be able to _force you_ to be a vegetarian? Or, should I live according to my beliefs & allow you to do the same?
This issue, just like every controversial issue, will never be one we all agree on. I prefer to live in a country that's not divided & polarized. We have to respect each other's beliefs. The only way we can all live in peace & harmony is to live and let live. Do what makes you happy, live according to YOUR beliefs, and allow others the same liberty! Nobody wants someone else's beliefs forced on them.
I would absolutely ban the killing of animals because I am confident they deserve life and are not ours to dominate and oppress. However, telling everyone else they can't follow _their_ beliefs just because it upsets _you_ is never going to go over well. It just creates conflict.
Lila: babies are people and you shouldn't kill innocent people
Brenda: yeah, but if you ignore that part...
That's the entire pro-life/pro-choice argument
Lila to Brenda: “When you are pregnant, what are you pregnant with?”
Brenda’s response: “I am going to veto this question.”
I say this with all due respect, why is Brenda engaging in this debate if she cannot provide the most foundational answer to this entire conversation?
The only reason Brenda said this is because Lila kept hounding on it instead of listening to the valid points being made about the real-world consequences of forcing birth. Brenda DID answer Lila’s question, multiple times.
It’s pretty intellectually lazy, honestly. One is able to tell themselves they are on the right side because they are “protecting innocent life” and yet conveniently brush aside the implications of the kinds of policies they wish to enact.
Pro-lifers want to make this issue into a simple one. It’s anything but. I will concede that the morality of 2nd trimester abortions is shaky. From what I can tell, there is debate among neurology experts as to when the fetus begins to experience the sensation of physical pain. It seems most agree it’s somewhere between 20-28 weeks. Even then, though, the fetus is not experiencing pain the same way a whole, breathing person would.
What Brenda kept trying to say and what Lila REFUSED to listen to is that forcing birth is not morally sound, either. Brenda was genuinely trying to engage with the issue and talk about real-world solutions. All Lila did throughout this entire almost 3 HOUR LONG conversation is shut Brenda down with her holier-than-thou attitude. It was nauseating to listen to. So much ego.
Because just as demonstrated in “What is a Woman”, leftists aren’t used to being challenged in a logical manner, and when they finally are, fail miserably.
@More Grey People do have funerals for miscarriages.
I believe she later refers to it as a potential human life.
@@beckylang91 She called it a spirit after she vetoed the question. She knew she was trapped and had no way to dodge the question or come up with something better.
The fact that Brenda thinks that abortion is something horrible but still supports it💀
I think a lot of people are afraid to admit how awful it is
This debate convinced me Brenda has absolutely no clue what she believes
Because it’s not up to us to decide for others,my body my choice for everything,I heard so many people discussing it when it was about vaccines or other medical procedures but then changing their mind on other topics,we should let people decide for their own bodies regardless of what your perception of the issue might be,some people find euthanasia awful and others a really good and humane thing and we as a society should respect that.
Brenda is calling abortion of what it is! Abortion is murder & a medical procedure! If you ever retrieve a baby 🍼 from the dumpster, then you will understand why abortion needs to exist. Whilst Pro Life folks pat themselves on the back, I'll be doing the work nobody wants to do & getting those poor babies 🍼out of the dumpsters. But carry on!
@@LaraNole its not up to you wether someone gets to live or die. vaccines affect you, abortion kills another person. does that make sense?
Lila is an Esther for this generation! A voice for the voiceless
Yes, Amen! God bless her and God bless you!
I rly like this analogy ❤
She's not that good....
I first heard of her around 2009, 14 years ago...
And in those 14 years there were about 13 million abortions....
Whom might Esther be?
@@letsalllovelein
Esther Williams?
Brenda suddenly forgetting whats shes talking about is a prime example of cognitive dissonance.
This is something I experienced when I was deep into identifying with my victimhood. When my friend had it worse, or was talking about her experience, but I saw her as stronger and more independent than me, my brain didnt want to accept that reality and I would "black out" as Brenda was experiencing.
I think shes very morally conflicted in her subconsciousness, but feels morally rightous, and those two realities are at war in her head and heart.
That is the crux of why she keeps dismissing the personhood of the pre born baby.
If you acknowledge it's a baby, then you have to deal with the guilt and shame you have buried.
Brenda seems to be a stunning example of cognitive dissonance. I felt bad for her as I watched. She seems like a nice, caring person so it’s hard to understand how her position could be so inconsistent and cruel.
I do not feel bad for her...maybe I should...but she is posing as a Christian, saying that the Bible supports bodily autonomy including abort...she's not just believed a non-truth, she's pushing an Anti-truth, which is worse than just false.
She is loving and caring but she purposely like they grey bc she thinks it gives her a morally neutral position
I've decided it's wrong to eat meat because animals are sentient, thinking, feeling, emoting beings who form bonds, recognize faces, communicate with each other, and show affection. It's immoral & unethical to oppress them, exploit them, and murder them. Those are my beliefs & they're justified. They're valid. Should I be able to _force you_ to be a vegetarian? Or, should I live according to my beliefs & allow you to do the same?
This issue, just like every controversial issue, will never be one we all agree on. I prefer to live in a country that's not divided & polarized. We have to respect each other's beliefs. The only way we can all live in peace & harmony is to live and let live. Do what makes you happy, live according to YOUR beliefs, and allow others the same liberty! Nobody wants someone else's beliefs forced on them.
I would absolutely ban the killing of animals because I am confident they deserve life and are not ours to dominate and oppress. However, telling everyone else they can't follow _their_ beliefs just because it upsets _you_ is never going to go over well. It just creates conflict.
As would anyone being forced to defend a position they don't hold.
Lila was made for this debate - she was born with a gift and she has used it to support life - well done Lila!
In the big picture she actually support death, abuse and slavery of women.
Voters disagree with you, and Lila. Blessings!!!
the big-boobed one seems to have had a breast-reduction surgery after this video. This ghoul along with a fat one was reamed out by Destiny. go check it out.
@@katenoke1571not voters- the elite powers that be, decide everything.
If Brenda is a GPS I'll never find my way home🤣🤣
I can imagine the level of research Lila has done
She is crystal clear when she speak
You: "How do I get home?"
Brenda: "That's a hard question and your terminology isn't very inclusive."
I am so happy to have found this episode. I came into this thinking I was pro-choice and left knowing I'm pro-life.
I've decided it's wrong to eat meat because animals are sentient, thinking, feeling, emoting beings who form bonds, recognize faces, communicate with each other, and show affection. It's immoral & unethical to oppress them, exploit them, and murder them. Those are my beliefs & they're justified. They're valid. Should I be able to _force you_ to be a vegetarian? Or, should I live according to my beliefs & allow you to do the same?
This issue, just like every controversial issue, will never be one we all agree on. I prefer to live in a country that's not divided & polarized. We have to respect each other's beliefs. The only way we can all live in peace & harmony is to live and let live. Do what makes you happy, live according to YOUR beliefs, and allow others the same liberty! Nobody wants someone else's beliefs forced on them.
I would absolutely ban the killing of animals because I am confident they deserve life and are not ours to dominate and oppress. However, telling everyone else they can't follow _their_ beliefs just because it upsets _you_ is never going to go over well. It just creates conflict.
@@ThatRedhedd but that's the thing killing other people is already illegal, pro-lifers are trying to stop the unconstitutional violation of human rights that is somehow accepted under the guise of "reproductive rights" aka abortion.
Brenda was like I'm really uncomfortable talking about science and biology. Can we stick to emotions and convenience?
Haha best comment yet. So true
Biology states that life begins at conception as in the DNA becomes distinct, but it does not dictate if that life human (edit: is considered of personhood) yet. That is still debated. Even the egg and sperm individually is alive. But we know inherently that those are not viable humans.
@@sophien5416 You need to differentiate between "human" and "viable humans", because you've equalled them here. It 100% does dictate that that life is human. Never in the history of a world has a woman ever gave birth to a cat, or a dog, or any other thing. Every part of the DNA, genes, chromosomes is completely human DNA, genes, and chromosomes. You're correct when you say they are not viable humans. But they are definitely human. Life can't just be general "life" without being any species in particular, that's not how this works.
@@KateLJ1799 when I say "viable human" I am describing the distinction between being of human DNA versus of being considered a personhood, because it is by definition prescribed personhood status that rights are granted. The debate of personhood is NOT in consensus in science. Most cells are LIVE in the human body but not all cells are consider persons. So depending on when you are looking at the stage of development, whether that be at fertilization, zygote, embryo or further into stages where heartbeat or brainwaves are concerned, it is indeed debated. I think its false to make claims about "science and biology" without the distinction amongst what is observational "Live" versus objectively is considered "personhood". Especially when you look further into claims about scientific consensus amongst biologists, they are often self selected surveys leaving out the full discussion amongst scientists.
@@TopherL when I say "human yet" I mean to say considered as a "person," because human rights is applied against the accepted status and definition that someone is considered of personhood. Being of human (because every cell in our body contains human dna) does not necessarily equate to personhood. As life begins even before fertilization, where personhood begins is what is debated.
I had a 12 week abortion. An instrument was inserted through my cervix, then, my fetus was suctioned. It was horrendous. I'll never forget it. I almost fainted. I was 16. The sorrow I feel today at 32, is very real and heavy. I regret it fully.
I am so sorry. I pray that God gives you peace. Even the heaviest burden he is willing to take it if we give it to him. There is a passage in the Bible that says godly sorrow leads to repentance. And another one that says that those who repent and turn to God will experience that their sin will be wiped out and there will be refreshing for them. I pray that you’ll experience this to the fullest ♥️
I am so sorry… this is why we fight for education on what an abortion is! Thank you for speaking up. ❤️
I’m so sorry for your loss. God bless you!
So heartbreaking. I hope you can find peace ❤️
I am so sorry for what you went through.
I’m even more pro life after watching this conversation. Lila Rose keep doing these, you are CHANGING minds.
Yeah? I can mention what I think a 12year old pregnant girl(even against her will) think you deserve, but I wont mention it here.
@@skagenpige88 Lets say we agree the 12 year old girl or any minor, raped or incest victim can have an abortion. OK. That's 0.0001% of cases. Do you agree that women that decide on their own to have sex and get pregnant should take personal responsibility for their actions? I would even agree that the men should take responsibility too. Can you agree to that?
@@supersuperbakano No, since she did not agree to a pregnancy that is still unacceptable. You can talk to her about it sure, but forcing her to stay pregnant against her will is unacceptable to me. Especially before the fetus even have developed a brain and is just buildingblocks without a conciousness. Id even argue for abortion later, I also argue for self defense being a thing if the person attacking you would do no more damage than a pregnancy do to your body. The main thing about a 12year old being forced to go through a pregnancy is even more horrific a situation and more dangerous in many cases. And both women and men that agree on an abortion if condoms etc fails....they are doing the responsible thing of ending it before we have an unwanted child.
@@supersuperbakano What do you think about people trying to have a baby when their over 40, are they evil since they are getting a 75% miscarriage rate and kill their baby? Should you force women to give birth earlier against their will and get pregnant since doing it later kills babys? That sounds like a pro life position right? And guess what forcing women to get pregnant earlier save more babies than all abortions.
@@skagenpige88 I already knew your response because it is not about 12 years old, rape or incest victims. That is a front. You use it as cover up to mask what you really want. It is truly about consenting adults wanting SEX without the consequences. At the end of the day it's about personal responsibility. Sex is NOT FREE. Sex is NOT WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES. If you can not support a child YOU SHOULD NOT BE having sex. If you are a guy you want to use women as pieces of meat. If you are a girl, have some dignity.
I was begrudgingly pro choice when I first saw this. I had a baby and am expecting another.
I am now pro life.
I felt my baby move. I scared him on accident when I used an ice machine. His movements were so familiar out the womb and even now that he's 1.
I don't think I can ever go back.
Jesus is the only way to be saved and enter eternal life, you should join His Catholic Church!
I became pro life a few months ago and can’t look back. There’s just no way. The mental gymnastics the pro choice side has to go through to make their case is… just wow.
Same. I was vehemently prochoice for years. Just recently someone in the 'PL camp' as Brenda says, was polite and kind enough to actually talk to me like a person and walk me through my own mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonances that I was able to change my mind.
Great respect to Lila for keep her composure and speaking to Brenda with respect and kindness even when she was obviously frustrated.
There's nothing wrong with supporting abortion. Here's a comment I found on Qoura:
"I don’t want to have children, ever. Let’s start with that.
Does that make me irresponsible? No it’s a well thought out choice. Now, I still want love. I am happily married to a man who also favors being childfree. Companionship does not equal children.
Pro lifers love to say that abstinence is a thing, but not when you’re in a long term relationship with someone you love. I want to have sex with my husband, I’m not sleeping around like what I assume you think ”irresponsible” means. Obviously we’re being very careful and I have yet to have an accident at the age of 27. I am too young to get my tubes tied according to 99% of doctors, it would honestly decrease the number of abortions if access to it was easier… We’re currently considering vasectomy because:
The thing is, I will remain fertile until at least 45 to maybe 55. Hormonal contraceptions are highly not recommended for women above 35. I am thus afraid that I may end up pregnant then when trying to prioritize my health. Not to mention that regardless, no contraception is 100% effective anyways.
I support abortions for all the unfortunate women that used a contraception that failed them (check out the number of babies born with an IUD on their face, it’s impressive). I support abortions for women who have health issues that can make pregnancy life threatening. I support it for women who have mental issues/trauma, and for rape victims. I support it for women who have dead babies inside of them, because the procedure to remove them is an abortion. In some places, women die of sceptisis carrying a roting dead baby inside of them because no one can/want to perform the abortion.
I support abortions for young teens who recieved no sex education and don’t deserve to have their whole futures robbed for something they aren’t responsible. I refuse to let children have babies. I support abortions for all the women who were left by the father in a financially unstable situation and don’t wanna be single mothers.
Finally, I support abortions because it saved tons of women and babies. Yes it does. In places where abortions are banned, women get illegal abortions that are done is poor conditions, often resulting in both the foetus and the woman’s death. That dead woman will never have a chance to have future children. Not to mention illegal abortions have no time limit. You can abort at any stage of pregnancy, in some cases babies will indeed be killed instead of foetuses."
Talk about mental gymnastics. The pro life movement does a TON of that as well. Both sides are guilty of that, and of making very subjective arguments.
@@caitlinreilly9347 Care to give an example? I was a card holding Planned Parenthood member, now adamantly anti-abortion. Would like to hear your thoughts
@@MrJuicebox99 sure! So for one example, when talking about rape, they want to say how that accounts for less than 1% of abortions, which is likely to be inaccurate but let's assume it is. Yet, they also turn around and focus heavily and third trimester abortions, which is also statistically an incredibly small amount of abortions. Why is rape cases, something that is no one but the rapists fault, "a minority" that shouldn't matter enough, but third trimester abortions, which is a deliberate choice by the woman, suddenly super relevant?
As far as making subjective arguments go, most of the arguments made from both sides are incredibly opinionated and therefore are irrelevant and don't move the conversation forward.
1.) "Abortion is more traumatizing than carrying/birthing a baby conceived in rape"/"Carrying your rapists baby is traumatizing" Both could be very true, but it's not one's place to say what is traumatizing to one person or the next. That's incredibly unique to each individual and either way, there will be guilt or trauma felt no matter what decision is made. But only those affected by the trauma know ehat would be best/worse for them.
2.) "The baby can't consent to being aborted". It can't consent to being born either. But we don't all sit here and argue that we should be allowed to sue for "being born". Additionally, even if that child is born, children can't consent to medical decisions anyways.
3.) "It's just a clump of cells". If you really break it down, we are all a clump of cells.
4.) How is an abortion out of medical necessity any different than an abortion out of rape or even just because someone doesn't want it? People say abortion is murder. By definition, murder is the premeditated killing of another life. Technically, by those words, an abortion out of necessity is still a deliberate decision that ends the same way. I'm not saying we should treat it the same way, but the end result is the same, no?
5.) Value of life argument. Value is inherently a subjective argument. What is valuable to one person will not be valuable to the next. Anti abortion actually places a higher value on the life of fetuses than women by saying "it doesn't matter what the mother has gone through/is going through, because the sake of the baby". "The baby is innocent" yea so is the mother but we're forcing her to suffer instead of giving her a choice on what is best for her and her baby.
6.) "Adoption is an option"/"foster care is horrible". Nit only do these cancel each other out, but it's a weak argument to make because we have no way of knowing if someone will be adopted into a great family and have a wonderful life or be in foster care and have an awful life. Which is why we have to make a choice. As with many decisions in life, wr don't know what wil happen until we make a CHOICE.
These are just a few examples. Let me know if you want more!