I certainly have a new understanding of what actual “gentle parenting “ is rather than passive parenting that takes that name. The similarities of these two woman’s parenting style is amazing. I think when it comes down to it, you really need to be mindful of the long term outcome when parenting and not just the “in the moment “ feeling. And both of these ladies do just that. Nice job Ellen, once again you hosted an amazingly insightful podcast!!
What helped me the most with raising my children was the book ‘Raising Warriors: Preparing Your Children For a Godly Life’. It is honestly a game changer
What comes to mind is whose kids I’d probably enjoy being around more. I notice that people who use the “gentle” approach, their kids generally are not pleasant to be around. I want my kids to be people who others want to be around so they can ultimately have successful relationships in life. Abbie’s approach is realistic, but also kind and respectful.
Right not everyone is going to constantly cater to your child’s emotions the way you do. You’re setting them up for a rude awakening going into the world.
Agreed! I had to end a friendship when a mom was gentle parenting while the child was destroying our house and kept using vulgar language. Very frustrating to watch.
Abbie is amazing. The Lord has bestowed the gift of clear communication to her. She articulates herself SO clearly and with such kindness, without compromising on truth. I admire her for that.
Both ladies were respectful and well-spoken. Abbie has changed the parenting game for me and it’s funny because I feel like I’ve become more “gentle” and respectful in my tone and had more grace on myself after hearing the many nuggets of advice she’s shared over the last few years of following her❤
I need this! I find myself so reactive and strict with my kids on one hand and too permissive on the other. I've never heard of Abbie before and I'm gonna keep learning and praying and plugging in with other biblical moms because boy do I need transformation in my parenting!
I take the mandate to train up my children in the way they should go very seriously. Before I was saved I was a peaceful parent and our home was cahosssss, I have three young children and calming them all down and being so flexible and floppy freaked them out and made them act like frightened small dogs. After i became Christian God gave me AUTHORITY over my children and I was able to lead them with wisdom and direction. Their behavior turned around 180! The culture of our home turned around thank yoy God ❤ we are so much more happy serving the kingdom of heaven! It's all about heart posture. I'm going to pick up the book M is for mama today ❤
That is why I see peaceful parenting as lacking wisdom because it leaves God out of the role of authority. For us not to point out this great misstep will harm children.
@@tarahall1025yes I totally agree! I liked a lot of what Dr Laura was saying but I think she is misguided with aiming to act from "love" because that is subjective. We want to act from "God's perfect love and truth" and he outlines it for us in his word. Dr Laura has made herself the ultimate power in her home but we are just humans. I turn to God as the ultimate power and director❤ Dr Laura seems like most new age folks, always searching "looking to the ever changing science for guidance" when the rock of the word never waivers or fails.
@@tarahall1025I think it’s because we have GOD AS DIRECTION. Because the order goes like this: children, women, man, Christ and then God Almighty. The parents receive their direction FROM God and then they are best able to support, nourish and love their children with the proper discipline ❤
@@tarahall1025 It's weird that you all are using Christianity as an excuse to use violence on god's smallest creations, children. I know gentle Christian parents and you could learn a lot from them.
The real proof is meeting their kids and seeing how they turn out in life as adults. I have met so many psychologists with the most messed up kids. Proof is in the pudding in my opinion.
If that is the metric as a person without kids I need to say most parents suck. Most kids today are complete demons, and I am the fun aunt I don't mind the usual things like being loud in public. But you're all here, on social media, instead of raising your kids. There is no way they turn out good hwen you spend as much time on the internet as I do.
@@NiaLaLa_V yep, it's called sin. Everyone is a "demon" as you put it. When and if you have children, you'll see that they are also very sinful. People are not punishing their children anymore and so children are ok with being sinful in public. Also, I'm a SAHM. I go online during naps and bedtime 😉
I had no idea who Abbie was, but I am so GRATEFUL of finding here through here!!!! It was like finding someone which much more wisdom and ways to speak out the journey I find myself in! New follower here for her!
M is for Mama has been such an encouragement for me in my motherhood journey! If you follow her you will see she exudes love and joy while standing strong in what she believes. Also, so much of this is what is each others definitions of love, gentleness, consequences... when those blur it is difficult to find common ground. Thank you Ellen for bringing different voices together to look at the similarities instead of just the oppositions.
I’m not even done with this video, and I’m already putting it in my top five best podcast episodes of the last two years. - I listen to political podcasts, religious podcasts, history, etc: I don’t think I’ve ever heard such a clear, respectful, and insightful, conversation that could rival this one. -as a husband who wants to do what is best for his wife and children, this has given me a new perspective in many areas and yet also solidified my core beliefs in others, a fresh look at how to parent my children alongside my wife. Thank you ladies for this episode.
This is probably just my insecurity talking but it’s why I’ve always been wary of the gentle parenting movement: what I hear her saying is that if you had a good enough relationship with your child; they would not misbehave. So when my children are making poor choices it’s a direct result of me not having a close enough bond with them… it’s probably not what she means but for better or worse it’s what I hear.
Exactly. I feel the same way - and I'm coming to this video from a real "on the fence" position - and I think Abbie addresses that in an honest but nonconfrontational fashion about a third of the way through the talk
Glad it’s not just me. When she spoke about her kids telling her they never had to hit each other because they knew they could always come to her, so they didn’t need to lash out… oof. I really struggled hearing that. I don’t believe parents are directly responsible for every bad choice or overreaction of strong feeling their kids have. I hesitate to say this too, but is it possible she had 2 highly agreeable children?
Not sure if you all are Christian but if you felt a twinge or sting, that’s an opportunity to ask the Lord why that seemed to sting and if there is room for improvement in your closeness with your child…personally I had a similar experience in a different video and I did realize that spending more time with my kid doing what THEY like vs what I felt was a worthy use of time DID improve our relationship and their behavior❤
Love Abby she is so articulate and I totally agree with the biblical worldview and parenting I love that Abby has been gifted in sharing the gospel so clearly and encapsulates it within everything she says , I love her and definitely look up to her as an example I'm a homeschool mom of an almost nine year old and six year old twins ❤ thank all for taking the time to talk
Like husbands towards their wives for eon's before wives got human rights and actually stopped being so patronised (not counting first few thousand days of their lives, they still are then) let's hope both men and women can be recognised and treated as human sooner now, stop misopaedic/bigoted treatment towards youth.
@@abigailccc I guess the idea of not doing acts to children which would get you imprisoned if you did them to anyone else is laughable to society, that's why everyone is so messed up, it's genuinely sad, not something we should laugh at.
They are extremely patronising and disrespectful, it's also misopaedic to single out kids for them and most of them (like striking, taking someone's stuff and confining someone) are considered so immoral to the point of criminality, if they shouldn't be vilified then should they be illegal? isn't making something illegal vilifying it? if they are harmless why are they illegal? and if they are harmful why are we doing them to children?
@@Mr.Goodkat I see it this way: if I don't give my child(ren) consequences for their actions (thereby allowing them to "get away with it") the world WILL. The whole point is to teach the child to weigh their options before acting. If I don't put my kid in time-out, the cops will by taking them to jail/juvie. If I don't confiscate something, my kid is gonna get their car impounded or their house foreclosed on. There ARE legal ramifications for which we should prepare our children through discipline.
@@patchworkfarms5327 That's a classic psychological flaw, it's a form of fear mongering even if not intended to be, it's if you don't do this thing you don't wanna do, then this worse thing will happen therefore you better do the lesser of the two, it's based off a faulty premise though because it's not true that someone not having pain caused to them means worse pain will therefore be caused after, nothing in your statement offered a substantial demonstration of this preposed phenomena, I am confident it's merely something you've heard before from other's and heard repeated lot's so now you say it yourself rather than something you actually seen occurring in the world and realised is a thing from observation. Actually being punished in your youth especially by parent's or schools is more likely to increase your run ins with the law and encourages anti-social behaviour by establishing an external morality base rather than an internal one, encourages self centred thinking (by training you to think of how your actions will effect you rather than other's and to only avoid doing the bad thing to save your own skin not because it's bad) it actually decreases intrinsic motivation and doesn't do anything to encourage the right behaviour when authority isn't watching, which is when the majority of crimes (what you're saying you do it to discourage your kids from) happens, in fact it makes committing them more attractive and rebellion to authority more emotionally appealing, if it's emotionally hurt you before. These are some of the reasons why back in medieval times despite VERY hefty punishments and even done publicly crime was rampant and why as society gets less and less punitive crime actually goes down, in Nordic countries where kids aren't trained so heavily through dominance and submission through "might makes right" (which is what punishment teaches) they are much better off than USA where school shooting's and bullying and other power/might makes right ideology dominates cause parent's keep making it about that in the home, it also explains why societies which don't punish youth period (there is some Aboriginal cultures don't and hunterer/gatherer cultures) they don't have violence in them at all because they aren't being continuously trained each day growing up through a conflict resolution ideology of bigger party gets to tell smaller party what to do and if smaller party doesn't listen bigger party gets to hurt smaller party, THAT ideology is not only what punishment teaches but it's the root cause of every poorly handled disagreement in society, all the conflict and all the vying for power and lot's of the crime, ironically. It's worthy nothing, parent's who provide their kids "lesser" consequences aren't actually going easier on them than the law either for the following reasons - Accountability - the law can be voted in, voted out, appealed against, overturned and even sued or imprisoned for failing proper procedure, parent's can not, they have zero trail, zero vetting process, can't be voted out, can change "laws" based on mood, punish known innocents and openly admit to doing so and all of it is allowed, this doesn't sound like the fairer of the two, they can even punish you for attempting to tell your side of the story "talking back" where as the government have to offer you that right, they even pay others to prove your innocent even when you aren't and have trails and re-trails, it's a MUCH more robust and fair process, they still can't strike you but a parent can with weapons despite the much more mad free for all, anything goes kangaroo court of parenthood, how is something which doesn't even resemble the "real world" supposed to prepare your kids for it? Lastly parent's are NOT a substitute for the law, a more moral and lenient alternative and when the kid gets out there in the "real world" the penalties will be much harsher so they aren't so bad now, that is not the case because a minor already is subject to legal prosecutions from the law plus have to deal with their parent's plus their schools all on top of it, if they commit theft, assault, sex crimes, fraud, arson or any other crimes they go to prison as well just like an adult so a parent is not an alternative to the government they are something in addition to it just much less regulation, much more power and weren't voted in and can't be voted out, lot's of kids go to prison there is entire prisons for youth so they're being subject to those "real world" things already, they are not in some training phase in that regard.
@Mr.Goodkat Then how do you explain Asian culture? They do corporal punishment, are known to not be touchy freely and have high standards and it results in some of the most well-behaved, successful humans in the world. I personally was spanked throughout childhood. Never felt like it was wrong. I knew before I got spanked that a spank was the consequence. I stopped needing to be spanked by the age of 8 or 9. My parents conducted spankings very carefully. They would never spank in anger, only spank the allotted amount based on the crime. (Most everything was 1 spank, lying was 3). And they would have a conversation about why I was getting spanked before and afterward would assure me that they loved me. I am a happy, healthy, contributor to society now as are my 8 siblings.
Dr. Markham said we should not take away a privilege from a disobedient child. But then she says she took away the flashlight from her daughter for staying up past her bedtime. That is a contradiction. Also fashlight privileges being taken from the child for disobeying is a punishment. So Dr. Markham did indeed punish her kids.
It's sad to see even advocates of so called "gentle parenting" still being irresponsible enough to give their kids a bedtime and even go out of their way to enforce it, it's no wonder society has such a negative relationship with sleep whereas societies without a concept of a bedtime do not, it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out our bodies need sleep in the same way they need food and water and shouldn't need to be forced on us for the same reasons they don't and doing so is about as good for our relationship with sleep as having food forced down your throat is good for your relationship with it, training generations of people to see sleep as something to fight in the hopes it'll cultivate a healthy relationship with it, is laughably absurd. Its also horrible for everbody's self esteem.
Taking away a flashlight is a natural consequence of the child refusing to go to sleep; that's not a punishment; it's enforcing a boundary-the boundary being bedtime. Taking away a privilege would mean the child no longer being allowed to use the flashlight again.
@@jujubee5094 Taking away a flashlight is not a natural consequence of the child refusing to go to sleep. It is an artificial consequence. A natural consequence of the child refusing to go to sleep would be the exhaustion the child would experience the next day. The classic example of a natural consequence is when a parent tells their child not to play with a bumblebee but the child does so anyway and gets stung. A punishment just is an artificial consequence imposed by an authority on an individual in order to enforce a boundary. So taking away a flashlight from a child for refusing to go to sleep is indeed a punishment. And it is taking away a privilege even if only for one night.
@jujubee5094 taking away that flashlight is a form of negative punishment (vs positive punishment). Giving negative punishment is done by taking away a certain desired item after the undesired behavior happens in order to decrease future responses.
My husband and I are expecting our first child this December and there has been so much information that I am trying to soak in and learn. I pray that I can be a safe and calm presence for my child and implement such wise parenting like Abbie!
Punishment has so many issues both moral and logical, I'd strongly urge you to reconsider ever following anything which condones it, some red flags are already present such as the fact many of the "normal" punishments done to children are actually illegal, they're acts considered so immoral if you do them to anyone you will literally go to prison (besides your kids) and that communicates an understanding that they are indeed wrong and harmful, if they are not then why are they illegal? and if they are harmful why are we doing them to children? Abby is insanely dehumanising towards children.
I have never heard of biblical parenting or Abby but I was pleasantly surprised by her views. I was Christian for many years and no longer am, but I appreciate where she is coming from and what her goals are.
If one is truly a Christ follower and knows and loves Him, they would never run away from Him. To know Him is to love Him and be loved by Him. How did humans come to be? A painting has a painter. A building has a builder. Creation has a creator. Something cannot come from nothing. God is real and loving. Just because we don’t believe in Him anymore, doesn’t erase Him away.
@-living4jesus4ever- love me or else I'll torture you forever isnt love, thats abuse. I CREATED YOU SO WOOOORSHIP MEEEE FOREVER-GOD The answer to where humans came from is evolution. Not a magic being & clay.
@@teresamcmud2605 evolution is impossible. How could all of the complex miracles of our universe, including kittens and the sun in just the right place so we don’t burn up and all atoms and seahorses and the planet Jupiter all explode into being from nothing? We can’t even throw 12 ingredients for chocolate chip cookies on the floor and have them become a simplistic cookie. I also wouldn’t believe in a God that tortures. It sounds like you haven’t read the Bible. God doesn’t torture. Sin is what has been a curse on the world. Jesus died so the curse can be broken and we are free from that and get to be in heaven with him when our time is over. Just like when we buy a new item it comes with an owners manual, the Bible is the owners manual to life. it has the beautiful heart and character of the Lord, the origins of creation and all the earth, our roadmap for living life with wisdom. It’s absolutely beautiful and the only living in the world. Many people claim to think they know God and the Bible but misunderstand because they’ve not read it or know His heart. ❤️ ❤️❤️
I grew up in a very strict authoritarian Christian home. The answer to everything was always a spanking, time out in the corner or a harsh grounding. I went into motherhood spanking or time outs for everything. I was never taught about emotions or self regulation. At some point I woke up and realized I didn't have the relationship I wanted with my child. He was so distant and broken. Dr. Lauras book out of all the parenting books I read, changed our life. The bond that is growing is so beautiful. I am nowhere near where I want to be, but learning to act in love above all things is such a good reminder. There are times where I don't know what to do and then I say to myself love and usually just a hug or some empathy goes a long way ❤
Mercy can be a great thing! But always showing mercy to a child who has done wrong will get you terrible results. In contrast, every act of discipline does not need to involve spanking, yelling or extreme circumstances.
I have that book too, I used it to become a better aunt because I was raised similar to you. Love her so much, she makes it doable to change our brains.
Girl, the brilliant thing I like to remember is the best time to start being better is now because it's never to late to be a great parent to your kids ❤ you are setting great groundwork for your grandkids now with your love and peace.
I dont believe a child should ever be hit. When I was spanked, I often didnt know why, was confused, and emotionally hurt by the person I had the greatest bond to, my dad. Being spanked damaged me psychologically, any time a person walks behind me I have the feeling they are looking at my butt and are going to hit me there. Every single time i walk up stairs I run because I get that fear that im going to be hit for not going to bed on time. If my boyfriend accidentally hurts me I break out in hysterical crying in panic. When I was a child, my dad hit my butt so hard there was a handprint that would swell up, and then I would cry and cry as my whole body broke out in hives. It is damaging to this PERSON you are spanking, as they will not stay a child forever. This will impact them forever. @@atroy1983
My father was too strict, and my mother was too lenient. Both end of the spectrum are terrible. The best way would be conscious of your emotional state and be empathetic and loving, and smart about it. There is a reason the toddler wants the cookies, maybe they never ask for anything and this one time want something for themselves, like when I threw a tantrum to get a teddy pillow and one of my parents ended up buying it anyways. If someone instead of saying no, asked my why it's so important to me to get that pillow, there could have been a greater understanding and bond created if they said no not today but I might get you it for your birthday, or santa might get you it if you make him a pretty drawing. Personally, I like the idea of taking it off of yourself and saying "I'm not allowed to buy cookies, but I'll call the cookie monster tonight when you're in bed and if you be really good and listen to mommy and daddy he might bring me cookies for you on easter."
Any of the advice or counselors I've had that talked like Dr. Laura does always sounded like they were trying to be validating but ultimately it felt dishonest and disingenuous. I just wish those people would tell it to me straight, even if it's hard to hear. Like, "hey I think you're being selfish here." I've always respected and have grown the most from people who weren't afraid to tell me the truth, even if it seemed harsh, because it was done out of true love for me. I don't know. I hate being talked to like people are just beating around the bush and trying to save my feelings. Just nicely tell it to me straight, which seems to be more Abby's style.
100%. I've seen so many of the "gentle parenting scripts" online where you do a huge song and dance of "validating the kids' feelings" before ultimately not giving them what they want anyways, and they reminded me of some teachers I had as a kid whose fake tone of voice would set off my fight or flight lol. As a kid I much more respected and trusted adults who would tell it to me straight lol (even if it made me really cranky in the short term).
This. Yes! When I hear my friends, other moms at the park , or relatives do these long drawn out gentle parenting conversations, they very rarely sound authentic or feel in any way necessary. I would not have responded well to this parenting style as a child. I don't parent my kids as harshly as I was parented, (no spanking/harsh punishments) but I also do have straight forward answers and consequences for my kids that hold boundaries. Sometimes the answer can just be no.
I'm just starting this video...and I just have to say, I love how Ellen mentions and focuses on how she wants to see what common ground they have between them. I LOVE that. This is why I follow her. She's such a positive force. Full of love/light. I know she's a Christian (and I am a former Christian, now agnostic) but she's the type of person i think Jesus wanted us to be like. ❤
@jannulik Well, whatever her personal spiritual beliefs are...she seems to live her life as Jesus taught. So that makes her a "real Christian" in my book. Andrew too it seems...They are good people, that's for sure. Although idk everything about them...and I'm sure they aren't perfect, they seem to have very good hearts.
Very good podcast and discussion. I tend to feel closer to what Dr. Markham is saying. It resonates more with me and I find it very effective on my child and our relationship is stronger. My child is very aware of boundaries and is very much appreciated by others. My goal is that he’s educated, open-minded, loving, happy, healthy and emotionally intelligent with values.
I was a peaceful parent and now im glad to have found my own authorative approach. The way i see it, i have great expectations from my children, so i need to uphold the same in me. Yes i expect them to listen to me when i say it’s bedtime, but i have taught them every step of the way and upheld the limit. I don’t get crossed and they do listen to me, because they know im serious because i have upheld that limit, but that’s more demanding on me than on them.
This is such a calling for you Ellen, you have such a gift for creating an environment where there is true conversation and understanding. You have guests who are dedicated to respect and learning about the other person. I applaud the direction your podcast has gone, you dig deep into these topics and dispel a lot of misunderstanding. You are having a beautiful and blessed effect on this world. I pray God continues to guide you and bless your family as you hold space for these very important conversations 🙏🏻🤍
Their perspectives on parenting are so similar. The Christian perspective and professional/scientific perspective are both working towards the same solutions in each of the hypothetical scenarios they were given but just in slightly different ways. I say that all children are different and respond differently in these scenarios. I agree with both of these intelligent women and have taken something from each of their perspectives. This was so good!
1:46:12 Super interesting question - would you discipline another adult? My gut reaction was no, because I was thinking of my husband / friend / etc. But then I remembered - yes, I would and have, because God put me in a position of authority over others (police officer) and so many times I have acted as the authority that gives a consequence to unacceptable behaviour (removing liberty, removing someone from their house, removing a driver's license for drinking, removing money aka fining someone, removing their ability to enter certain places or see certain people and on the more serious side, causing pain, causing injury and having the capacity to lawfully take a life to save others). It is certainly a big and heavy responsibility and one to carry thoughtfully and I guess that is probably a better analogy for me to understand that relationship. I will add - you do a huge disservice to children by never allowing them to face a consequence (natural or enforced) because a lot of those kids end up as adults meeting the police and being told "no" and you can tell they have never encountered authority or consequences ever before and it's honestly sad, because learning that lesson via law enforcement is not the best thing for any member of society. These are adults who think they can scream to get what they want, threaten to get what they want, lie, bully, throw a fit, threaten self harm, whatever they used in life til that point - and obviously police have seen it all before and could care less - and they just fall apart when it doesn't work and have this disbelief as they have to change their entire worldview in a moment. Usually they also do themselves a world of mischief by adding in assault public officer or disorderly conduct in public charges to whatever they did wrong to start with cause they just don't understand they are not the ultimate authority in all situations. Children will eventually encounter authority if poorly parented and it's not ideal! Thanks ladies ❤
This was a beautiful, respectful, and meaningful conversation. Thank you for facilitating it, Ellen! Helpful to hear how people with opposing views can still share most of the same core values in parenting.
There’s certain aspects of “gentle parenting” I can’t take seriously. Especially the viewpoint that my child is my equal. They are not. I also do not think that children always act out because of big emotions. I do believe big emotions are a real thing but there’s plenty of times my kids have tried to push boundaries because that’s what kids will try to do on occasion. I know lots of friends who practice gentle parenting and their kids don’t behave. They are very self centered and they don’t actually respect boundaries. Whether or not people want to say “that’s permissive parenting” fine but then admit that anyone who tries to practice this basically becomes a permissive parent. I love Abby. Her kids have a great relationship with her and she’s such a patient mom. I really admire how she’s brought up her kids.
Exactly! Gentle parenting honestly makes kids into self-centered individuals who always expect the world to gives things to them. Look at how many kids act today (in school, at home, etc). Discipline does NOT mean abuse.
It's misopaedic to suggest a kid isn't your equal, a blatantly bigoted statement, content of character is the one and only thing to judge others on, the idea someone actually think's they're worth more than another human being because they've been alive longer is every bit as moronic as racism, it's actually worse because unlike racism it's self deprecating too as you've identified as a child yourself, it also shows a lack of empathy for people in situations you yourself have been in so it's even more messed up than other bigotries.
Your child is your equal in the since that both of you need of God, both guilty of sins. Gentle parenting is more about you?m, your child. It is about parents using respectful tones when you correct them. It about teaching them how to identify their emotion and regulating them. The majority of time sin can occur when we are disregulated and so much more. Does God come at you yelling at you or does he come to you with kindness, understanding, and patience? Because that what gentle parenting is. Gentle parenting has boundaries and there are consequences
@@alaws2005God doesn't speak, he is not human, so of course he isn't going to yell. But God will send someone to hell if they don't behave. Gentle parenting is a joke, the same way people have corrupted and watered down Christianity.
@@amandah1875 I was SPEAKING metaphorically !!!!! And he would be a gentle parent. God does not send people to hell. We send ourselves to hell by rejecting a relationship with him. A Christian is someone who has a relationship. And no Christian is perfect. We all "misbehave". That's why we repent as often as needed. Being a Christian means allowing God to change us. As for gentle parenting, most parents do not practice gentle parenting. In reality, it's permissive. 1. God gives us choices, aka free will 2. God respects us- aka he treats us right 3. God is anger is rightous aka man is not always rightous 4. God inspired a book, Proverbs' giving us advice on how to treat people. 5. God sees everyone as a person, especially children 6. God warns parents not to provoke their children to wrath. Especially Fathers
I find that having a list of items to get, and sticking to the list helps with any tantrums at the store. Also, having them help me get the items off the shelf and check items off the list helps.
I love Abbie and all of her wisdom. I’ve read both of her books and regularly listen to her podcast and she has been such a resource for me as a mom who decided recently to really center Christ in my family and to stop leaving him out of our lives. I listened to her on another podcast (tea spill I believe? And she covered this same topic and that’s how I found her!) so excited to hear this!
I loved this episode! I have read each of their books on parenting and always thought they had more in common than you would expect. I'm so glad I got to hear a conversation between the two of them. The parenting style I aspire to have is a marriage of each of their philosophies. You can see their parenting styles in how they talk to each other throughout this debate. If only all debates were this respectful. This was a great pairing, Ellen!
That spanking research should be done in Africa or Asia...As an African, I feel the western countries really over think spanking. Yes , some parents go overboard but forcing trauma on most who were spanked and didn't cause any negative inprint is crazy.
This is one of the few topics where the research is very clear. Some people have trauma from it, many don't. But did it have any long-term positive outcomes? I think it's quite intuitive. Do you want to teach your child that violence is ok? It's sad that it's still common practice in many societies, even with all the information access we have today.
I agree. I was spanked when I did something that was very wrong, but my dad did it in a way where he talks with me calmly first so that I understood what I did wrong and why I was being punished. I have absolutely no resentment towards him because he did it in a calm, loving way that I understood it was to teach me and not to hurt me.
This research on spanking- was it done only in western societies? My thing with all the studies is that the cultural lense through which they are done is very singular. I would love to see those same studies on spanking and the outcomes of the children/ parent- child relationship, etc. performed in African, Asian, etc. societies.
I am Latin and I was spanked and it just taught me adults were cruel and I feared them and authority in general, it taught me nothing about my behavior… just to do what I was told
@@anacarmes I'm sorry you experienced this. Just curious, were you born and raised in a Latin country? Or in the US/UK, etc.? Please don't take offense, as I'm really just curious as to why a large majority of non-westerners don't have the same response? To also be clear, I'm not trying to say the abuse never existed in these other countries/environments, again, I'm just curious to know the root of why many of us who were spanked did not end up with trauma...
The psychologist is a one trick pony. I feel like she doesn’t directly answer questions and answers them all the same way! She has some good points but, if I were looking at this in an unbiased way, Abbie’s reasoning wins. I love how articulate she is and she has a why behind everything.
Abby is a misop3ist, it's wrong to position yourself as having more worth than other's on basis of age just as much as race or sex, even more so actually and it's incredibly off the charts condescending. I am pretty certain the bible also mentions a wife obeying her husband and a variety of other things of that nature but because Abby grew up in a misopaedic society and not a misogynist one, she cherry picks the misopaedic and ignore the misogynist, which parts of something someone decides to listen to and which they don't tells you something about that person, harbouring a bigotry based on age is not cool and it's not treating other's how you like to be treated when you steal their stuff, assault them, talk down to them or confine them to a room or house and that moral golden rule is also biblical and given more attention by Jesus in the bible than anything about obeying parent's is, a topic I don't even recall him mentioning, Jesus said there is two commandments and one of them was a variation of the "moral golden rule" neither said a thing about children being second class or parent's being obeyed or anything like that so we can assume Jesus (and therefore God) doesn't consider those as being as important as the moral golden rule and hurting your kids breaks that.
Abbie is such a Godly wife and mother and an inspiration and mentor who I truly glean from. Abbie’s Podcast is wonderful and such a light for mothers who want to lead and love their children and to disciple them to Gods word.
I love the way Abbie speaks and her views. Yesterday, I had an absolutely rough day with my children. I have 2 small boys ages 4 and 1. My 4 year old is completely rambunctious and loud which is okay, it’s just his nature. I am not used to that because I tend to be more laid back and quiet. However, I do struggle with anger. And I know it’s a sin that I constantly struggle with. It seemed like everything my son did yesterday was irritating me. He was jumping on the couch and screaming and hollering. He followed me wherever I went. I kept telling him and telling him to go to his room and play or play with his brother and he just would not listen. I was getting very angry and I could feel it rise. I was like Jesus how can I parent today?? I ended up turning on some worship music in the house because it felt like the enemy wanted to just ruin my day and cause me to be angry towards my children. I went to the kitchen and just cried. Like God how am I supposed to do this today? You know I struggle with anger and I’m feeling angry today. I felt like a little girl climbing up in her Father’s lap. My Father has been so gracious and merciful to me when I haven’t been very loving and kind. He’s patient, but also gives us consequences when we deserve them. The anger subsided and we ended up having a better day. Idk why I said all that, but maybe it would help someone. We can’t do it all. We are gonna mess up whether we gentle parent or parent Biblically. We all fall short of the glory of God. But thankfully we do have a Good Good Father that we can go to for help, cuz He’s the best Father there ever was, is and will be.
This helped me. Thank you. I also struggle with anger. I did something similar and said a prayer and asked to help me to stay calm. That day turned out better after my prayer. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know I feel the same way sometimes as a parent. The anger. And I'm grateful to God for hearing and answering my prayer (and your prayer) in those times of need.
There's an excellent training, TBRI, that I think you'd benefit from greatly and allow you to understand your boys and yourself from a much different perspective ❤
What an incredible conversation!! Such a beautiful demonstration of speaking what you know and believe while completely respecting the other’s point of view and experience. I thought it was all very enlightening and that these two women actually agreed in principle in just about every way. Thank you Ellen! This was a brave thing to put together and I think it couldn’t have been more beautiful, especially around such a controversial topic! 👏👏
My parents followed the Bible too and guess what? One of my bothers is on drugs, many have mental health issues and trauma, etc. Religion breeds trauma-it’s a cult. I’ve known so many people from religious families and they are confused and have a lot of fear. Abby is in for a rude awakening if one of her children is gay.. Christian’s punish their children for being themselves! I’m not into this whole everybody is trans thing, I’m against a lot of what’s going on In public education, I vote conservative-however, I disagree with a lot of what Christians do.
@@RationalNon-conformistI don’t know what you went through but a lot of “religious families” aren’t necessarily following the Bible even if they claim they are. I’d like to hear your opinion on what specific parts of the Bible advises parenting practices that would “breed trauma” for people
I love your podcast but this was probably the discussion/debate I was waiting for the most. I appreciate the mutual respect and kindness both women expressed. I definitely parent more like Abbie and can relate to her more, but the whole conversation was delightful. Thank you Ellen.
@@Mr.Goodkat I think most mothers, Abby included, are doing there very best. They may not have a degree in child-anything, like Dr. Laura, but they respect and love their children. Are they perfect? Probably not, but they are figuring it out and doing the best they can, always striving to improve. Life is a horizon, there's always room for improvement. I pray both these women learned from each other and continue to work to bless their families and others. I'm not sure what race, ethnicity, nationality, gender, sexuality have to do with anything here. But I would rather be judged and judge others, "by the content of their characters," and not by a label, title, pronoun, etc.
@@WondaElizabeth "They're doing their very best" if this is true of most mothers, then we should be appalled because of how horrible most do despite their love. If anybody else was condoning violence and mistreating ANY other group of people, you'd never respond with "they're well intentioned" "are doing their best" etc, this is what they'll say about a husband who smacks his wife around in all the societies that's accepted too, they're "doing their best". I brought up race, ethnicity, nationality, gender, sexuality to illustrate a point, that you believe it's wrong to mistreat anyone on these things because they are not the "content of their characters" but Abby does not treat other's based on the content of their character, in fact she treats nobody like that for the first few thousand days of their lives, you and I included, if you treat people as lesser on basis of their age, you are not treating based on content of character like you claim to believe in.
I feel like Dr. Laura was very smug in the beginning and had to push through to finish watching. Glad I did. Abbie is great and completely agree with her approach. I am a Christian mom and my job is to prepare my children for this broken world. The world isn’t going to respect their “uniqueness” at every turn.
Yes!! Designed by who? God! What is really sad is that the physiologist has no basis for her beliefs- but self. Biblical parenting has its basis in Christ and his word the Bible. Biblical parenting his gentle, loving, kind ( all the fruits of the spirit) Yet, Biblical parenting shows our kids a need for a savior and when we sin and when our kids sin we can offer them real solutions through a biblical perspective.
@@lynn5505 didn’t ‘god’ create us in his image? So how is it sad Laura ‘the psychologist’ is using her own self learnt experience to guide many parents. How do you know she isn’t speaking from also a spiritual place? She said at some point it all comes from a place of LOVE 😊
@law9169 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked. Who can know it?" -Jeremiah 17:9-10 That's why we don't trust ourselves even though we are made in God's image. We bear his IMAGE, not his perfection.
Though Dr.Laura had some nice things to say, she paints a picture of human nature as if every person has good intentions in all situations. In her view, it would be unthinkable for her 16 year-old daughter to disobey her and go along with her friends’ mischievous plan because she and her daughter had established “an agreement.” When a toddler throws a tantrum in the grocery store, it could be commonplace to have random shoppers step in to lend a helping hand. According to her assertions, We should teach children to assume that people have good intentions, and there’s no such thing as evil in the human heart. This is a dangerous philosophy and a detrimental take on parenting. I hold to the Biblical truth that we are born sinners, we are not enough in and of ourselves(which is a great relief) and that thanks to God’s grace and mercy, we are redeemed if we submit to Christ. Thank all you for this conversation.
Amen amen.. I fully agree with you. I feel like Dr Laura is not clear enough and does not take into account the fact that not every child will nicely respond to what she is teaching. Some sweet, shy or docile kids might but not the stubborn / adventurous/ wild kids would. God help us all to be the best parents we can be
"We should teach children to assume that people have good intentions" - I'm not sure I see the issue with this. Has it helped us as a society to teach that people have bad intentions?
@@erinsymone1645this wrong assumption leads to sentiments like violence and bratty behavior is "age appropriate" and that "their needs just aren't met" that parents these days have and that's what leads to misbehaving kids and the waves of teachers quitting bc they can't take the assaults any more. Biblical parents know their kids are born sinners and correct these behaviors early on
Such a great conversation to listen to. When I clicked on this video, I was a bit skeptical because I thought polarising people would have a real hard time having a conversation with each other but both these women are very respectful and down to earth and actually have more in common than I would have thought. Even though I can’t relate to Abbie when she mentions the religious parts because I’m not religious, I still found her point of view very interesting. Also have to give a big cheers and applause to Dr. Laura for her part in this conversation - very insightful and inspiring honestly. Congrats on the episode Ellen!
God’s way is the best way. Pray for wisdom daily, God will give you the right tools to be the best parent you can be to your child. We all live different lives, have children with their unique personalities, rely on God and he will give you guidance.
Defining parenting styles seems futile because we really need to see the full parent/child relationship to understand if it is healthy or not. A gentle parent could be a doormat or an intentional guardian who lays out healthy boundaries. A traditional parent could have harsh rules that are all implemented wisely and with love, or could just be controlling their children to serve their own ego. Plus all children have different needs.
Everyone shares some of the same needs though, that is to be treated with dignity, respect and kindness, our brains have those similarities just as universally as our bodies need exercise, good food and time outdoors there is very little if even any exception at all to this, these things are good for 100% of the population or super close to it, thinking of "parenting" as something you do unto another person is part of the problem, it shares a similarity with all our other relationships and that is you must "treat other people how you want to be treated" the moral golden rule doesn't preclude someone based on anything including how long they've lived.
Some tips. Order groceries online like Walmart or whatever local stores ya have, and do grocery pick up haha. Secondly, watch what you feed your kiddos and yourself, because all that sugar and artificial dyes and processed crap and fast food, IS making them act worse! That’s a fact. Our boys have always been breastfed then mainly plant based nutrition filled foods 🌱 loads of organic veggies/fruits, greens, our daily huge smoothie loaded with chia, hemp, flax, berries etc etc. also even for us mamas, hormones can really mess with us. So gotta take care of our health/hormones too. Not to mention not just giving antibiotics when not absolutely necessary, which is jacking our whole guts up. The gut brain connection is real. When our guts are jacked (I’ve been there from too many antibiotics growing up, mold etc) then it affects our moods etc, that’s a fact! Let’s take better care of the temple Jesus has given us! Praying this psychologist comes to know Jesus. 🙏 He is the only way, the truth and the life. Anybody who believes we came from some random boom/evolution is a fool. Period. No matter what worldly education they have.
@@kathrynjoseph3331I'm not op but sleep is huge. I get a lot of benefit from supplementing magnesium. My husband has had luck with supplementing zinc and drinking raw egg yolks.
For me it came down to “who would I want to spend my afternoon with?” It’s clearly Dr. Markham. It feels like she calls out the goodness inside of me; and I want to arise to that feeling of nobility she gives me. I definitely have sinful desires, but I find I’m more willing to make good decisions when someone sees that I’m created by God to be good.
@@shb8212 I don't think we are created with a sin nature. The concept of "sin" for me is awful. It brings guilt, punishment, shame, and makes us feel like we are born with some kind of defect just for being human. We are not created with a sin nature. We are human. Humans are humans, we sometimes do less nice things, sometimes really ugly things, many times we do beautiful things. All we need to do is understand we are all the same, we are all worthy of love and respect. If we are worthy of love and respect we are worthy of receiving and we are also vectors of love and respect to others. Then we deal with actions and consequences.
@martaso643 All of your associations with sin are 100% spot on...we all have fallen short of the glory of God. We all need a Savior... thankfully, all who fall at the feet of Jesus will be forgiven, redeemed, made new... saved. We are all worthy, that's why Jesus gave himself for each and every one of us! We are all His beautiful children, made in His image. 💜
I learned a lot from this. I appreciate the unique perspectives and experience types these women came with. They’re viewpoints, while different at times, often helped to bring important context and deeper understanding to the nuanced challenges of parenting.
The metaphor about the cup is from a quote from Amy Carmichael... "A cup brimful of sweetness cannot spill even one drop of bitter water, no matter how suddenly jarred."
As an Early Childhood Educator, nanny and mother for over 40 years I have yet to see any child be able to identify his/her emotions as to why they did an unwanted behavior; most adults can't even identify the "why". Children need to know what is expected (blundarues, rules, limits, etc) and have natural consequences; which do not harm the child but gives them the opportunity to reflect. Without consequences MOST children and adults will continue bad behaviors. I don't like using the word "bad" because in one home dancing on the coffee table could be acceptable and not in another...so maybe i should say..behaviors one knows is NOT acceptable in their home or wherever they happen to be. Hope this made sense 💚🙏
This is so awesome bc I actually go back and forth with these same approaches bc I want to have my children know they are loved by us and God and not feel controlled or neglected and that they are well mannered and courteous so they are loved by others and can bring Christ to the world.
What an amazing interview full of rich and insightful advice from both perspectives. This is one of the best I've ever heard. Love how they thoroughly articulate their viewpoints while showing respect towards each other's differences
I appreciate so much of what said by both. I’m a Christian parent, so implement more of Abbie’s biblical approach. But as a nanny of 30 years, I have to use the tools of the non-Christian. They work!! I WILL say that there are TONS of permissive parents out there!!!
I see both sides and I appreciate how similar they are. I'm a Christian and believe in biblical parenting, and I Understand human hearts to be first prone to sin than not. But I also want to take approaches that Dr. Markham endorses, but also keep in mind true imsinful nature, my child's need for a savior, and I can point them towards Christ, and that I love them no matter what
I think its safe to say that people have such different lifestyles and personalities, that as long as they consciously make an effort to parent your child, that they love them, then they'll be the parent the kid needs. I think different folks, different strokes x
This was a beautiful conversation! I think both women shared a lot of great wisdom. Between these two styles, I overall agree with Dr. Markham the most. But I think the most ideal style would be Dr. Markham’s parenting techniques paired with Abby’s Biblical teachings. ❤
Am I the only one who can't really tell where they greatly differ? I don't buy that DrM never raised her voice or reprimanded her kids. That's just wild and unrealistic. That alone makes me not trust her. Also I don't know how you can raise kids biblically and never reprimand.
@@shb8212I think a lot of it comes down to definitions. There are things Dr. M does that Abbie considers punishment, but she doesn’t use that language to describe it. It seems like there is also a large emphasis placed on tone (from both parents!) and I suspect that Dr. M considers reprimanding in accordance to its connotation and definition that “implies a severe, formal, often public or official rebuke.” Based on her interview tone, if a child were hitting another child I could certainly see her saying something to an older toddler like “I can see that you’re really upset right now and that you hit your brother. I can’t allow you to hit your brother” (physically intervenes with the child and has also reproved them)
I certainly have a new understanding of what actual “gentle parenting “ is rather than passive parenting that takes that name. The similarities of these two woman’s parenting style is amazing. I think when it comes down to it, you really need to be mindful of the long term outcome when parenting and not just the “in the moment “ feeling. And both of these ladies do just that. Nice job Ellen, once again you hosted an amazingly insightful podcast!!
What helped me the most with raising my children was the book ‘Raising Warriors: Preparing Your Children For a Godly Life’. It is honestly a game changer
Thanks for the book recommendations, I can't seem to find that book on Amazon. Where did you buy it? Thanks x
I can’t find it either.
What comes to mind is whose kids I’d probably enjoy being around more. I notice that people who use the “gentle” approach, their kids generally are not pleasant to be around. I want my kids to be people who others want to be around so they can ultimately have successful relationships in life. Abbie’s approach is realistic, but also kind and respectful.
Right not everyone is going to constantly cater to your child’s emotions the way you do. You’re setting them up for a rude awakening going into the world.
Totally agree!
Agreed!
Amen! People have often commented on how well behaved my children are.
Agreed! I had to end a friendship when a mom was gentle parenting while the child was destroying our house and kept using vulgar language. Very frustrating to watch.
Abbie is amazing. The Lord has bestowed the gift of clear communication to her. She articulates herself SO clearly and with such kindness, without compromising on truth. I admire her for that.
She needs to keep her l egs closed
“Our society’s relationship with children is not a good one” man that hit home
Both ladies were respectful and well-spoken. Abbie has changed the parenting game for me and it’s funny because I feel like I’ve become more “gentle” and respectful in my tone and had more grace on myself after hearing the many nuggets of advice she’s shared over the last few years of following her❤
I agree wholeheartedly!
For me too! Love her podcast.
I need this! I find myself so reactive and strict with my kids on one hand and too permissive on the other. I've never heard of Abbie before and I'm gonna keep learning and praying and plugging in with other biblical moms because boy do I need transformation in my parenting!
I take the mandate to train up my children in the way they should go very seriously. Before I was saved I was a peaceful parent and our home was cahosssss, I have three young children and calming them all down and being so flexible and floppy freaked them out and made them act like frightened small dogs. After i became Christian God gave me AUTHORITY over my children and I was able to lead them with wisdom and direction. Their behavior turned around 180! The culture of our home turned around thank yoy God ❤ we are so much more happy serving the kingdom of heaven! It's all about heart posture. I'm going to pick up the book M is for mama today ❤
That is why I see peaceful parenting as lacking wisdom because it leaves God out of the role of authority. For us not to point out this great misstep will harm children.
@@tarahall1025yes I totally agree! I liked a lot of what Dr Laura was saying but I think she is misguided with aiming to act from "love" because that is subjective. We want to act from "God's perfect love and truth" and he outlines it for us in his word. Dr Laura has made herself the ultimate power in her home but we are just humans. I turn to God as the ultimate power and director❤ Dr Laura seems like most new age folks, always searching "looking to the ever changing science for guidance" when the rock of the word never waivers or fails.
@@tarahall1025I think it’s because we have GOD AS DIRECTION. Because the order goes like this: children, women, man, Christ and then God Almighty. The parents receive their direction FROM God and then they are best able to support, nourish and love their children with the proper discipline ❤
@@tarahall1025 It's weird that you all are using Christianity as an excuse to use violence on god's smallest creations, children. I know gentle Christian parents and you could learn a lot from them.
She said peaceful parents set limits all day, it's the how you set limits. Your misrepresenting what she said.
The real proof is meeting their kids and seeing how they turn out in life as adults. I have met so many psychologists with the most messed up kids. Proof is in the pudding in my opinion.
This!! I was totally thinking this the whole podcast.
Yup! You will know them by their fruits
If that is the metric as a person without kids I need to say most parents suck. Most kids today are complete demons, and I am the fun aunt I don't mind the usual things like being loud in public. But you're all here, on social media, instead of raising your kids. There is no way they turn out good hwen you spend as much time on the internet as I do.
@@NiaLaLa_V yep, it's called sin. Everyone is a "demon" as you put it. When and if you have children, you'll see that they are also very sinful. People are not punishing their children anymore and so children are ok with being sinful in public.
Also, I'm a SAHM. I go online during naps and bedtime 😉
@@OUTOF.CULTURE So true!
Abbie your boldness gave me shivers! What a brilliant gift of communication & compassion the Lord has given you! Just wow ❤
I had no idea who Abbie was, but I am so GRATEFUL of finding here through here!!!! It was like finding someone which much more wisdom and ways to speak out the journey I find myself in! New follower here for her!
Absolutely love Abbie and all of the Biblical wisdom she shares!!
M is for Mama has been such an encouragement for me in my motherhood journey! If you follow her you will see she exudes love and joy while standing strong in what she believes. Also, so much of this is what is each others definitions of love, gentleness, consequences... when those blur it is difficult to find common ground. Thank you Ellen for bringing different voices together to look at the similarities instead of just the oppositions.
I was only 20 mins in and I bought her two books. Currently reading M is for mama, oh lordddd 🎉🎉🎉
I’m not even done with this video, and I’m already putting it in my top five best podcast episodes of the last two years.
- I listen to political podcasts, religious podcasts, history, etc: I don’t think I’ve ever heard such a clear, respectful, and insightful, conversation that could rival this one.
-as a husband who wants to do what is best for his wife and children, this has given me a new perspective in many areas and yet also solidified my core beliefs in others, a fresh look at how to parent my children alongside my wife.
Thank you ladies for this episode.
This is probably just my insecurity talking but it’s why I’ve always been wary of the gentle parenting movement: what I hear her saying is that if you had a good enough relationship with your child; they would not misbehave. So when my children are making poor choices it’s a direct result of me not having a close enough bond with them… it’s probably not what she means but for better or worse it’s what I hear.
Exactly. I feel the same way - and I'm coming to this video from a real "on the fence" position - and I think Abbie addresses that in an honest but nonconfrontational fashion about a third of the way through the talk
Glad it’s not just me. When she spoke about her kids telling her they never had to hit each other because they knew they could always come to her, so they didn’t need to lash out… oof. I really struggled hearing that. I don’t believe parents are directly responsible for every bad choice or overreaction of strong feeling their kids have. I hesitate to say this too, but is it possible she had 2 highly agreeable children?
True
Not sure if you all are Christian but if you felt a twinge or sting, that’s an opportunity to ask the Lord why that seemed to sting and if there is room for improvement in your closeness with your child…personally I had a similar experience in a different video and I did realize that spending more time with my kid doing what THEY like vs what I felt was a worthy use of time DID improve our relationship and their behavior❤
Me too 😖
Love Abby she is so articulate and I totally agree with the biblical worldview and parenting I love that Abby has been gifted in sharing the gospel so clearly and encapsulates it within everything she says , I love her and definitely look up to her as an example I'm a homeschool mom of an almost nine year old and six year old twins ❤ thank all for taking the time to talk
It really became apparent through the conversation that one approach comes from a position in theory and the other in application.
I'm curious; which guest was the former? Which guest was the latter?
Every single time I hear Abbie talk i am given a new point to ponder. I love that she uses Scripture to guide her. ❤
I absolutely loved Abbie's approach on parenting. It's authoritative yet loving.
Like husbands towards their wives for eon's before wives got human rights and actually stopped being so patronised (not counting first few thousand days of their lives, they still are then) let's hope both men and women can be recognised and treated as human sooner now, stop misopaedic/bigoted treatment towards youth.
@@Mr.Goodkat haha ok
@@abigailccc I guess the idea of not doing acts to children which would get you imprisoned if you did them to anyone else is laughable to society, that's why everyone is so messed up, it's genuinely sad, not something we should laugh at.
I completely agree, discipline and consequences are not evil and should not be vilified
Normal part of life
They are extremely patronising and disrespectful, it's also misopaedic to single out kids for them and most of them (like striking, taking someone's stuff and confining someone) are considered so immoral to the point of criminality, if they shouldn't be vilified then should they be illegal? isn't making something illegal vilifying it? if they are harmless why are they illegal? and if they are harmful why are we doing them to children?
@@Mr.Goodkat I see it this way: if I don't give my child(ren) consequences for their actions (thereby allowing them to "get away with it") the world WILL. The whole point is to teach the child to weigh their options before acting. If I don't put my kid in time-out, the cops will by taking them to jail/juvie. If I don't confiscate something, my kid is gonna get their car impounded or their house foreclosed on. There ARE legal ramifications for which we should prepare our children through discipline.
@@patchworkfarms5327 That's a classic psychological flaw, it's a form of fear mongering even if not intended to be, it's if you don't do this thing you don't wanna do, then this worse thing will happen therefore you better do the lesser of the two, it's based off a faulty premise though because it's not true that someone not having pain caused to them means worse pain will therefore be caused after, nothing in your statement offered a substantial demonstration of this preposed phenomena, I am confident it's merely something you've heard before from other's and heard repeated lot's so now you say it yourself rather than something you actually seen occurring in the world and realised is a thing from observation.
Actually being punished in your youth especially by parent's or schools is more likely to increase your run ins with the law and encourages anti-social behaviour by establishing an external morality base rather than an internal one, encourages self centred thinking (by training you to think of how your actions will effect you rather than other's and to only avoid doing the bad thing to save your own skin not because it's bad) it actually decreases intrinsic motivation and doesn't do anything to encourage the right behaviour when authority isn't watching, which is when the majority of crimes (what you're saying you do it to discourage your kids from) happens, in fact it makes committing them more attractive and rebellion to authority more emotionally appealing, if it's emotionally hurt you before.
These are some of the reasons why back in medieval times despite VERY hefty punishments and even done publicly crime was rampant and why as society gets less and less punitive crime actually goes down, in Nordic countries where kids aren't trained so heavily through dominance and submission through "might makes right" (which is what punishment teaches) they are much better off than USA where school shooting's and bullying and other power/might makes right ideology dominates cause parent's keep making it about that in the home, it also explains why societies which don't punish youth period (there is some Aboriginal cultures don't and hunterer/gatherer cultures) they don't have violence in them at all because they aren't being continuously trained each day growing up through a conflict resolution ideology of bigger party gets to tell smaller party what to do and if smaller party doesn't listen bigger party gets to hurt smaller party, THAT ideology is not only what punishment teaches but it's the root cause of every poorly handled disagreement in society, all the conflict and all the vying for power and lot's of the crime, ironically.
It's worthy nothing, parent's who provide their kids "lesser" consequences aren't actually going easier on them than the law either for the following reasons -
Accountability - the law can be voted in, voted out, appealed against, overturned and even sued or imprisoned for failing proper procedure, parent's can not, they have zero trail, zero vetting process, can't be voted out, can change "laws" based on mood, punish known innocents and openly admit to doing so and all of it is allowed, this doesn't sound like the fairer of the two, they can even punish you for attempting to tell your side of the story "talking back" where as the government have to offer you that right, they even pay others to prove your innocent even when you aren't and have trails and re-trails, it's a MUCH more robust and fair process, they still can't strike you but a parent can with weapons despite the much more mad free for all, anything goes kangaroo court of parenthood, how is something which doesn't even resemble the "real world" supposed to prepare your kids for it?
Lastly parent's are NOT a substitute for the law, a more moral and lenient alternative and when the kid gets out there in the "real world" the penalties will be much harsher so they aren't so bad now, that is not the case because a minor already is subject to legal prosecutions from the law plus have to deal with their parent's plus their schools all on top of it, if they commit theft, assault, sex crimes, fraud, arson or any other crimes they go to prison as well just like an adult so a parent is not an alternative to the government they are something in addition to it just much less regulation, much more power and weren't voted in and can't be voted out, lot's of kids go to prison there is entire prisons for youth so they're being subject to those "real world" things already, they are not in some training phase in that regard.
@Mr.Goodkat
Then how do you explain Asian culture? They do corporal punishment, are known to not be touchy freely and have high standards and it results in some of the most well-behaved, successful humans in the world.
I personally was spanked throughout childhood. Never felt like it was wrong. I knew before I got spanked that a spank was the consequence. I stopped needing to be spanked by the age of 8 or 9. My parents conducted spankings very carefully. They would never spank in anger, only spank the allotted amount based on the crime. (Most everything was 1 spank, lying was 3). And they would have a conversation about why I was getting spanked before and afterward would assure me that they loved me.
I am a happy, healthy, contributor to society now as are my 8 siblings.
32:53 - “The Good news is that we’ve already been redeemed.❤️”
THAT PART
Dr. Markham said we should not take away a privilege from a disobedient child. But then she says she took away the flashlight from her daughter for staying up past her bedtime. That is a contradiction. Also fashlight privileges being taken from the child for disobeying is a punishment. So Dr. Markham did indeed punish her kids.
It's sad to see even advocates of so called "gentle parenting" still being irresponsible enough to give their kids a bedtime and even go out of their way to enforce it, it's no wonder society has such a negative relationship with sleep whereas societies without a concept of a bedtime do not, it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out our bodies need sleep in the same way they need food and water and shouldn't need to be forced on us for the same reasons they don't and doing so is about as good for our relationship with sleep as having food forced down your throat is good for your relationship with it, training generations of people to see sleep as something to fight in the hopes it'll cultivate a healthy relationship with it, is laughably absurd. Its also horrible for everbody's self esteem.
Taking away a flashlight is a natural consequence of the child refusing to go to sleep; that's not a punishment; it's enforcing a boundary-the boundary being bedtime. Taking away a privilege would mean the child no longer being allowed to use the flashlight again.
@@jujubee5094 Taking away a flashlight is not a natural consequence of the child refusing to go to sleep. It is an artificial consequence. A natural consequence of the child refusing to go to sleep would be the exhaustion the child would experience the next day. The classic example of a natural consequence is when a parent tells their child not to play with a bumblebee but the child does so anyway and gets stung. A punishment just is an artificial consequence imposed by an authority on an individual in order to enforce a boundary. So taking away a flashlight from a child for refusing to go to sleep is indeed a punishment. And it is taking away a privilege even if only for one night.
@jujubee5094 taking away that flashlight is a form of negative punishment (vs positive punishment). Giving negative punishment is done by taking away a certain desired item after the undesired behavior happens in order to decrease future responses.
@jujubee5094I agree with you, very well said!
Both woman very respectful. So grateful to find Abbie here! I love how she pulls everything back to the word ❤
My husband and I are expecting our first child this December and there has been so much information that I am trying to soak in and learn. I pray that I can be a safe and calm presence for my child and implement such wise parenting like Abbie!
Punishment has so many issues both moral and logical, I'd strongly urge you to reconsider ever following anything which condones it, some red flags are already present such as the fact many of the "normal" punishments done to children are actually illegal, they're acts considered so immoral if you do them to anyone you will literally go to prison (besides your kids) and that communicates an understanding that they are indeed wrong and harmful, if they are not then why are they illegal? and if they are harmful why are we doing them to children? Abby is insanely dehumanising towards children.
❤Congratulations on your first child coming in December ❤
The fact that you are doing research on these things already shows how much you care and that you will be a great mother 💕
I have never heard of biblical parenting or Abby but I was pleasantly surprised by her views. I was Christian for many years and no longer am, but I appreciate where she is coming from and what her goals are.
Come back to Christ ❤
Jesus Christ is waiting for you with open arms ❤
If one is truly a Christ follower and knows and loves Him, they would never run away from Him. To know Him is to love Him and be loved by Him. How did humans come to be? A painting has a painter. A building has a builder. Creation has a creator. Something cannot come from nothing. God is real and loving. Just because we don’t believe in Him anymore, doesn’t erase Him away.
@-living4jesus4ever- love me or else I'll torture you forever isnt love, thats abuse. I CREATED YOU SO WOOOORSHIP MEEEE FOREVER-GOD
The answer to where humans came from is evolution. Not a magic being & clay.
@@teresamcmud2605 evolution is impossible. How could all of the complex miracles of our universe, including kittens and the sun in just the right place so we don’t burn up and all atoms and seahorses and the planet Jupiter all explode into being from nothing? We can’t even throw 12 ingredients for chocolate chip cookies on the floor and have them become a simplistic cookie.
I also wouldn’t believe in a God that tortures. It sounds like you haven’t read the Bible. God doesn’t torture. Sin is what has been a curse on the world. Jesus died so the curse can be broken and we are free from that and get to be in heaven with him when our time is over. Just like when we buy a new item it comes with an owners manual, the Bible is the owners manual to life. it has the beautiful heart and character of the Lord, the origins of creation and all the earth, our roadmap for living life with wisdom. It’s absolutely beautiful and the only living in the world. Many people claim to think they know God and the Bible but misunderstand because they’ve not read it or know His heart. ❤️ ❤️❤️
I grew up in a very strict authoritarian Christian home. The answer to everything was always a spanking, time out in the corner or a harsh grounding. I went into motherhood spanking or time outs for everything. I was never taught about emotions or self regulation. At some point I woke up and realized I didn't have the relationship I wanted with my child. He was so distant and broken. Dr. Lauras book out of all the parenting books I read, changed our life. The bond that is growing is so beautiful. I am nowhere near where I want to be, but learning to act in love above all things is such a good reminder. There are times where I don't know what to do and then I say to myself love and usually just a hug or some empathy goes a long way ❤
Mercy can be a great thing! But always showing mercy to a child who has done wrong will get you terrible results. In contrast, every act of discipline does not need to involve spanking, yelling or extreme circumstances.
I have that book too, I used it to become a better aunt because I was raised similar to you. Love her so much, she makes it doable to change our brains.
Girl, the brilliant thing I like to remember is the best time to start being better is now because it's never to late to be a great parent to your kids ❤ you are setting great groundwork for your grandkids now with your love and peace.
I dont believe a child should ever be hit. When I was spanked, I often didnt know why, was confused, and emotionally hurt by the person I had the greatest bond to, my dad. Being spanked damaged me psychologically, any time a person walks behind me I have the feeling they are looking at my butt and are going to hit me there. Every single time i walk up stairs I run because I get that fear that im going to be hit for not going to bed on time. If my boyfriend accidentally hurts me I break out in hysterical crying in panic. When I was a child, my dad hit my butt so hard there was a handprint that would swell up, and then I would cry and cry as my whole body broke out in hives. It is damaging to this PERSON you are spanking, as they will not stay a child forever. This will impact them forever. @@atroy1983
My father was too strict, and my mother was too lenient. Both end of the spectrum are terrible. The best way would be conscious of your emotional state and be empathetic and loving, and smart about it. There is a reason the toddler wants the cookies, maybe they never ask for anything and this one time want something for themselves, like when I threw a tantrum to get a teddy pillow and one of my parents ended up buying it anyways. If someone instead of saying no, asked my why it's so important to me to get that pillow, there could have been a greater understanding and bond created if they said no not today but I might get you it for your birthday, or santa might get you it if you make him a pretty drawing. Personally, I like the idea of taking it off of yourself and saying "I'm not allowed to buy cookies, but I'll call the cookie monster tonight when you're in bed and if you be really good and listen to mommy and daddy he might bring me cookies for you on easter."
Any of the advice or counselors I've had that talked like Dr. Laura does always sounded like they were trying to be validating but ultimately it felt dishonest and disingenuous. I just wish those people would tell it to me straight, even if it's hard to hear. Like, "hey I think you're being selfish here."
I've always respected and have grown the most from people who weren't afraid to tell me the truth, even if it seemed harsh, because it was done out of true love for me.
I don't know. I hate being talked to like people are just beating around the bush and trying to save my feelings. Just nicely tell it to me straight, which seems to be more Abby's style.
Seriously! The way Dr Laura’s talking about it comes off condescending to me…. I don’t think a child would respond well to her 😅
Most people can't handle harsh truth, and books are written for most people not just Karen.
100%. I've seen so many of the "gentle parenting scripts" online where you do a huge song and dance of "validating the kids' feelings" before ultimately not giving them what they want anyways, and they reminded me of some teachers I had as a kid whose fake tone of voice would set off my fight or flight lol. As a kid I much more respected and trusted adults who would tell it to me straight lol (even if it made me really cranky in the short term).
They're trying to show you feelings matter and life isn't all about quick facts. You as a whole matter.
This. Yes! When I hear my friends, other moms at the park , or relatives do these long drawn out gentle parenting conversations, they very rarely sound authentic or feel in any way necessary. I would not have responded well to this parenting style as a child. I don't parent my kids as harshly as I was parented, (no spanking/harsh punishments) but I also do have straight forward answers and consequences for my kids that hold boundaries. Sometimes the answer can just be no.
I'm just starting this video...and I just have to say, I love how Ellen mentions and focuses on how she wants to see what common ground they have between them. I LOVE that. This is why I follow her. She's such a positive force. Full of love/light. I know she's a Christian (and I am a former Christian, now agnostic) but she's the type of person i think Jesus wanted us to be like. ❤
I pray you'll really find Jesus, not imperfect humans, or whatever drove you away. ❤🙏🏻
@@Ididntwantayoutubehandl if it makes you happy to pray that, go ahead. 🙂 I wish happiness and confidence in your own moral compass for you.
Andrew is Christian, not Ellen x
@@jannulik I have heard she was. ? No? I thought I watched a video where she talked about how they met and they were both Christians?
@jannulik Well, whatever her personal spiritual beliefs are...she seems to live her life as Jesus taught. So that makes her a "real Christian" in my book.
Andrew too it seems...They are good people, that's for sure. Although idk everything about them...and I'm sure they aren't perfect, they seem to have very good hearts.
Very good podcast and discussion. I tend to feel closer to what Dr. Markham is saying. It resonates more with me and I find it very effective on my child and our relationship is stronger. My child is very aware of boundaries and is very much appreciated by others. My goal is that he’s educated, open-minded, loving, happy, healthy and emotionally intelligent with values.
Abby the Lord spoke to me through you so much thank you sooo much!!❤❤
Great conversation. I just can’t with Laura’s advice. Homeschooling mom of four kids ranging from 6-18, firm but loving has been the ticket for us.
So grateful for this conversation and in specific for Abbie! What a wonderful example of biblical parenting
I was a peaceful parent and now im glad to have found my own authorative approach. The way i see it, i have great expectations from my children, so i need to uphold the same in me.
Yes i expect them to listen to me when i say it’s bedtime, but i have taught them every step of the way and upheld the limit. I don’t get crossed and they do listen to me, because they know im serious because i have upheld that limit, but that’s more demanding on me than on them.
This is such a calling for you Ellen, you have such a gift for creating an environment where there is true conversation and understanding. You have guests who are dedicated to respect and learning about the other person. I applaud the direction your podcast has gone, you dig deep into these topics and dispel a lot of misunderstanding. You are having a beautiful and blessed effect on this world. I pray God continues to guide you and bless your family as you hold space for these very important conversations 🙏🏻🤍
Their perspectives on parenting are so similar. The Christian perspective and professional/scientific perspective are both working towards the same solutions in each of the hypothetical scenarios they were given but just in slightly different ways. I say that all children are different and respond differently in these scenarios. I agree with both of these intelligent women and have taken something from each of their perspectives. This was so good!
Such good people for this discussion! They may not see eye to eye on everything but I feel they stayed respectful of each other's views.
This video deserves more views. I lean more towards Abby but every now and then Laura has an important point
1:46:12
Super interesting question - would you discipline another adult? My gut reaction was no, because I was thinking of my husband / friend / etc. But then I remembered - yes, I would and have, because God put me in a position of authority over others (police officer) and so many times I have acted as the authority that gives a consequence to unacceptable behaviour (removing liberty, removing someone from their house, removing a driver's license for drinking, removing money aka fining someone, removing their ability to enter certain places or see certain people and on the more serious side, causing pain, causing injury and having the capacity to lawfully take a life to save others).
It is certainly a big and heavy responsibility and one to carry thoughtfully and I guess that is probably a better analogy for me to understand that relationship.
I will add - you do a huge disservice to children by never allowing them to face a consequence (natural or enforced) because a lot of those kids end up as adults meeting the police and being told "no" and you can tell they have never encountered authority or consequences ever before and it's honestly sad, because learning that lesson via law enforcement is not the best thing for any member of society.
These are adults who think they can scream to get what they want, threaten to get what they want, lie, bully, throw a fit, threaten self harm, whatever they used in life til that point - and obviously police have seen it all before and could care less - and they just fall apart when it doesn't work and have this disbelief as they have to change their entire worldview in a moment. Usually they also do themselves a world of mischief by adding in assault public officer or disorderly conduct in public charges to whatever they did wrong to start with cause they just don't understand they are not the ultimate authority in all situations.
Children will eventually encounter authority if poorly parented and it's not ideal!
Thanks ladies ❤
This was a beautiful, respectful, and meaningful conversation. Thank you for facilitating it, Ellen! Helpful to hear how people with opposing views can still share most of the same core values in parenting.
There’s certain aspects of “gentle parenting” I can’t take seriously. Especially the viewpoint that my child is my equal. They are not.
I also do not think that children always act out because of big emotions. I do believe big emotions are a real thing but there’s plenty of times my kids have tried to push boundaries because that’s what kids will try to do on occasion.
I know lots of friends who practice gentle parenting and their kids don’t behave. They are very self centered and they don’t actually respect boundaries. Whether or not people want to say “that’s permissive parenting” fine but then admit that anyone who tries to practice this basically becomes a permissive parent.
I love Abby. Her kids have a great relationship with her and she’s such a patient mom. I really admire how she’s brought up her kids.
Exactly! Gentle parenting honestly makes kids into self-centered individuals who always expect the world to gives things to them. Look at how many kids act today (in school, at home, etc). Discipline does NOT mean abuse.
It's misopaedic to suggest a kid isn't your equal, a blatantly bigoted statement, content of character is the one and only thing to judge others on, the idea someone actually think's they're worth more than another human being because they've been alive longer is every bit as moronic as racism, it's actually worse because unlike racism it's self deprecating too as you've identified as a child yourself, it also shows a lack of empathy for people in situations you yourself have been in so it's even more messed up than other bigotries.
Your child is your equal in the since that both of you need of God, both guilty of sins. Gentle parenting is more about you?m, your child. It is about parents using respectful tones when you correct them. It about teaching them how to identify their emotion and regulating them. The majority of time sin can occur when we are disregulated and so much more. Does God come at you yelling at you or does he come to you with kindness, understanding, and patience? Because that what gentle parenting is. Gentle parenting has boundaries and there are consequences
@@alaws2005God doesn't speak, he is not human, so of course he isn't going to yell. But God will send someone to hell if they don't behave. Gentle parenting is a joke, the same way people have corrupted and watered down Christianity.
@@amandah1875 I was SPEAKING metaphorically !!!!! And he would be a gentle parent. God does not send people to hell. We send ourselves to hell by rejecting a relationship with him. A Christian is someone who has a relationship. And no Christian is perfect. We all "misbehave". That's why we repent as often as needed. Being a Christian means allowing God to change us.
As for gentle parenting, most parents do not practice gentle parenting. In reality, it's permissive.
1. God gives us choices, aka free will
2. God respects us- aka he treats us right
3. God is anger is rightous aka man is not always rightous
4. God inspired a book, Proverbs' giving us advice on how to treat people.
5. God sees everyone as a person, especially children
6. God warns parents not to provoke their children to wrath. Especially Fathers
I find that having a list of items to get, and sticking to the list helps with any tantrums at the store. Also, having them help me get the items off the shelf and check items off the list helps.
I've found that instacart helps. 😂😂
Slightly joking. You should like a good mama!♥️
I love Abbie and all of her wisdom. I’ve read both of her books and regularly listen to her podcast and she has been such a resource for me as a mom who decided recently to really center Christ in my family and to stop leaving him out of our lives. I listened to her on another podcast (tea spill I believe? And she covered this same topic and that’s how I found her!) so excited to hear this!
I loved this episode! I have read each of their books on parenting and always thought they had more in common than you would expect. I'm so glad I got to hear a conversation between the two of them. The parenting style I aspire to have is a marriage of each of their philosophies. You can see their parenting styles in how they talk to each other throughout this debate. If only all debates were this respectful. This was a great pairing, Ellen!
That spanking research should be done in Africa or Asia...As an African, I feel the western countries really over think spanking. Yes , some parents go overboard but forcing trauma on most who were spanked and didn't cause any negative inprint is crazy.
This is one of the few topics where the research is very clear. Some people have trauma from it, many don't. But did it have any long-term positive outcomes?
I think it's quite intuitive. Do you want to teach your child that violence is ok?
It's sad that it's still common practice in many societies, even with all the information access we have today.
I agree. I was spanked when I did something that was very wrong, but my dad did it in a way where he talks with me calmly first so that I understood what I did wrong and why I was being punished. I have absolutely no resentment towards him because he did it in a calm, loving way that I understood it was to teach me and not to hurt me.
This research on spanking- was it done only in western societies? My thing with all the studies is that the cultural lense through which they are done is very singular. I would love to see those same studies on spanking and the outcomes of the children/ parent- child relationship, etc. performed in African, Asian, etc. societies.
I am Latin and I was spanked and it just taught me adults were cruel and I feared them and authority in general, it taught me nothing about my behavior… just to do what I was told
@@anacarmes I'm sorry you experienced this. Just curious, were you born and raised in a Latin country? Or in the US/UK, etc.? Please don't take offense, as I'm really just curious as to why a large majority of non-westerners don't have the same response? To also be clear, I'm not trying to say the abuse never existed in these other countries/environments, again, I'm just curious to know the root of why many of us who were spanked did not end up with trauma...
The psychologist is a one trick pony. I feel like she doesn’t directly answer questions and answers them all the same way! She has some good points but, if I were looking at this in an unbiased way, Abbie’s reasoning wins. I love how articulate she is and she has a why behind everything.
Abby is a misop3ist, it's wrong to position yourself as having more worth than other's on basis of age just as much as race or sex, even more so actually and it's incredibly off the charts condescending. I am pretty certain the bible also mentions a wife obeying her husband and a variety of other things of that nature but because Abby grew up in a misopaedic society and not a misogynist one, she cherry picks the misopaedic and ignore the misogynist, which parts of something someone decides to listen to and which they don't tells you something about that person, harbouring a bigotry based on age is not cool and it's not treating other's how you like to be treated when you steal their stuff, assault them, talk down to them or confine them to a room or house and that moral golden rule is also biblical and given more attention by Jesus in the bible than anything about obeying parent's is, a topic I don't even recall him mentioning, Jesus said there is two commandments and one of them was a variation of the "moral golden rule" neither said a thing about children being second class or parent's being obeyed or anything like that so we can assume Jesus (and therefore God) doesn't consider those as being as important as the moral golden rule and hurting your kids breaks that.
Truth (aka Jesus) always wins in the end.... That's the security that followers of Jesus have.
That's what the inerrancy of scripture does (which Abbie exemplifies). Makes everything certain and simple (but not necessarily "easy").
Abbie is brilliant and the way she articulates such beautiful clear communication is great❤
EXCELLENT podcast! I'm so thankful to live in a time when I have access to amazing conversations like this!
thats so wonderful, thank you for being here!
Abbie is such a Godly wife and mother and an inspiration and mentor who I truly glean from. Abbie’s Podcast is wonderful and such a light for mothers who want to lead and love their children and to disciple them to Gods word.
What’s her podcast called??❤
I love the way Abbie speaks and her views.
Yesterday, I had an absolutely rough day with my children. I have 2 small boys ages 4 and 1. My 4 year old is completely rambunctious and loud which is okay, it’s just his nature. I am not used to that because I tend to be more laid back and quiet. However, I do struggle with anger. And I know it’s a sin that I constantly struggle with. It seemed like everything my son did yesterday was irritating me. He was jumping on the couch and screaming and hollering. He followed me wherever I went. I kept telling him and telling him to go to his room and play or play with his brother and he just would not listen. I was getting very angry and I could feel it rise. I was like Jesus how can I parent today?? I ended up turning on some worship music in the house because it felt like the enemy wanted to just ruin my day and cause me to be angry towards my children. I went to the kitchen and just cried. Like God how am I supposed to do this today? You know I struggle with anger and I’m feeling angry today. I felt like a little girl climbing up in her Father’s lap. My Father has been so gracious and merciful to me when I haven’t been very loving and kind. He’s patient, but also gives us consequences when we deserve them.
The anger subsided and we ended up having a better day. Idk why I said all that, but maybe it would help someone. We can’t do it all. We are gonna mess up whether we gentle parent or parent Biblically. We all fall short of the glory of God. But thankfully we do have a Good Good Father that we can go to for help, cuz He’s the best Father there ever was, is and will be.
This helped me. Thank you. I also struggle with anger. I did something similar and said a prayer and asked to help me to stay calm. That day turned out better after my prayer.
Anyway, I just wanted to let you know I feel the same way sometimes as a parent. The anger. And I'm grateful to God for hearing and answering my prayer (and your prayer) in those times of need.
@@ktlouisechoo I’m so glad it helped you! Parenting/motherhood is so so hard. I just know that I’d be completely lost if not for the Lord guiding me.
There's an excellent training, TBRI, that I think you'd benefit from greatly and allow you to understand your boys and yourself from a much different perspective ❤
I like how the wisdom we get from scripture is proving to be true according to the psychologist. Great conversation.
I love the quick and ready scripture that the one side has at her disposal. And I liked the calm and thoughtful presentation of the other side.
YESSSS so excited to for season two! I have been patiently (impatiently)waiting for this 😂❤
From the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks, and liked her analogy with the spilled cup
What an incredible conversation!! Such a beautiful demonstration of speaking what you know and believe while completely respecting the other’s point of view and experience. I thought it was all very enlightening and that these two women actually agreed in principle in just about every way. Thank you Ellen! This was a brave thing to put together and I think it couldn’t have been more beautiful, especially around such a controversial topic! 👏👏
Even though I follow the Bible for parenting, I learned so much from both of these women 🥰
My parents followed the Bible too and guess what? One of my bothers is on drugs, many have mental health issues and trauma, etc. Religion breeds trauma-it’s a cult. I’ve known so many people from religious families and they are confused and have a lot of fear. Abby is in for a rude awakening if one of her children is gay.. Christian’s punish their children for being themselves! I’m not into this whole everybody is trans thing, I’m against a lot of what’s going on In public education, I vote conservative-however, I disagree with a lot of what Christians do.
@@RationalNon-conformistI don’t know what you went through but a lot of “religious families” aren’t necessarily following the Bible even if they claim they are. I’d like to hear your opinion on what specific parts of the Bible advises parenting practices that would “breed trauma” for people
If I talk to a person who tells me I need to make a tea and sit down with my thoughts before making dinner I know they don’t get it.
Especially with little kids. What a joke
Ginger Hubbard’s approach is the perfect blend of both these women.
Agree! Love ginger!
Same! great women of the faith ❤
I like both of the perspectives and insights given here so I’m excited to check her out now too! Thanks for the recommendation!
I wish she was interviewed!
I use her wise words for mothers app!
Loved how respectful these ladies were. Really enjoyed this conversation
I love your podcast but this was probably the discussion/debate I was waiting for the most. I appreciate the mutual respect and kindness both women expressed. I definitely parent more like Abbie and can relate to her more, but the whole conversation was delightful. Thank you Ellen.
It's unfortunate Abby's mutual respect doesn't extend to people on basis of age, this is bigotry.
@@Mr.Goodkat I disagree, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
@@WondaElizabeth If it were anything else, race, ethnicity, nationality, gender, sexuality then you would not disagree, I am sure.
@@Mr.Goodkat I think most mothers, Abby included, are doing there very best. They may not have a degree in child-anything, like
Dr. Laura, but they respect and love their children. Are they perfect? Probably not, but they are figuring it out and doing the best they can, always striving to improve. Life is a horizon, there's always room for improvement. I pray both these women learned from each other and continue to work to bless their families and others.
I'm not sure what race, ethnicity, nationality, gender, sexuality have to do with anything here. But I would rather be judged and judge others, "by the content of their characters," and not by a label, title, pronoun, etc.
@@WondaElizabeth "They're doing their very best" if this is true of most mothers, then we should be appalled because of how horrible most do despite their love.
If anybody else was condoning violence and mistreating ANY other group of people, you'd never respond with "they're well intentioned" "are doing their best" etc, this is what they'll say about a husband who smacks his wife around in all the societies that's accepted too, they're "doing their best".
I brought up race, ethnicity, nationality, gender, sexuality to illustrate a point, that you believe it's wrong to mistreat anyone on these things because they are not the "content of their characters" but Abby does not treat other's based on the content of their character, in fact she treats nobody like that for the first few thousand days of their lives, you and I included, if you treat people as lesser on basis of their age, you are not treating based on content of character like you claim to believe in.
I read Dr Laura’s book years ago! Definitely helped to shape my parenting style. I now need to read Abbie’s.
I feel like Dr. Laura was very smug in the beginning and had to push through to finish watching. Glad I did. Abbie is great and completely agree with her approach. I am a Christian mom and my job is to prepare my children for this broken world. The world isn’t going to respect their “uniqueness” at every turn.
But christ does
One of the best parenting conversations I've heard on any media source. Awesome!
Yes!
“Designed by who” 🔥👏🏻
I literally said this in my head before Abby said it out loud lol
Yes!! Designed by who? God! What is really sad is that the physiologist has no basis for her beliefs- but self. Biblical parenting has its basis in Christ and his word the Bible. Biblical parenting his gentle, loving, kind ( all the fruits of the spirit)
Yet, Biblical parenting shows our kids a need for a savior and when we sin and when our kids sin we can offer them real solutions through a biblical perspective.
@@lynn5505 didn’t ‘god’ create us in his image? So how is it sad Laura ‘the psychologist’ is using her own self learnt experience to guide many parents. How do you know she isn’t speaking from also a spiritual place? She said at some point it all comes from a place of LOVE 😊
@@law9169by what standard and by whose authority does one define love?
@law9169 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked. Who can know it?" -Jeremiah 17:9-10
That's why we don't trust ourselves even though we are made in God's image. We bear his IMAGE, not his perfection.
Abbie I’m so proud of you, you go girl ❤️
Both the invites were so respectful with each other, speaks volumes that you can resd all their books and take a lot of them
Oh my gosh amazing Ellen, I have been holding out for this!!
I love Laura Markum, it’s so amazing to hear some more of her insight. Thankyou 💕🙏💕
Though Dr.Laura had some nice things to say, she paints a picture of human nature as if every person has good intentions in all situations. In her view, it would be unthinkable for her 16 year-old daughter to disobey her and go along with her friends’ mischievous plan because she and her daughter had established “an agreement.” When a toddler throws a tantrum in the grocery store, it could be commonplace to have random shoppers step in to lend a helping hand. According to her assertions, We should teach children to assume that people have good intentions, and there’s no such thing as evil in the human heart. This is a dangerous philosophy and a detrimental take on parenting. I hold to the Biblical truth that we are born sinners, we are not enough in and of ourselves(which is a great relief) and that thanks to God’s grace and mercy, we are redeemed if we submit to Christ. Thank all you for this conversation.
Amen amen.. I fully agree with you. I feel like Dr Laura is not clear enough and does not take into account the fact that not every child will nicely respond to what she is teaching. Some sweet, shy or docile kids might but not the stubborn / adventurous/ wild kids would. God help us all to be the best parents we can be
"We should teach children to assume that people have good intentions" - I'm not sure I see the issue with this. Has it helped us as a society to teach that people have bad intentions?
@@erinsymone1645this wrong assumption leads to sentiments like violence and bratty behavior is "age appropriate" and that "their needs just aren't met" that parents these days have and that's what leads to misbehaving kids and the waves of teachers quitting bc they can't take the assaults any more. Biblical parents know their kids are born sinners and correct these behaviors early on
Yes! this is the debate I've been longing for!!
Watching now 🍿
Such a great conversation to listen to. When I clicked on this video, I was a bit skeptical because I thought polarising people would have a real hard time having a conversation with each other but both these women are very respectful and down to earth and actually have more in common than I would have thought. Even though I can’t relate to Abbie when she mentions the religious parts because I’m not religious, I still found her point of view very interesting. Also have to give a big cheers and applause to Dr. Laura for her part in this conversation - very insightful and inspiring honestly. Congrats on the episode Ellen!
DR Laura Markham 🙌🥰
I’ve been on both sides of the spectrum. You did a really good job picking guests that represent each philosophy well.
Abby, you rocked this podcast! Thank you so much for your wise biblically based words❤
God’s way is the best way. Pray for wisdom daily, God will give you the right tools to be the best parent you can be to your child. We all live different lives, have children with their unique personalities, rely on God and he will give you guidance.
Thank you soooooo much for this praise Jesus ❤
Defining parenting styles seems futile because we really need to see the full parent/child relationship to understand if it is healthy or not. A gentle parent could be a doormat or an intentional guardian who lays out healthy boundaries. A traditional parent could have harsh rules that are all implemented wisely and with love, or could just be controlling their children to serve their own ego. Plus all children have different needs.
Everyone shares some of the same needs though, that is to be treated with dignity, respect and kindness, our brains have those similarities just as universally as our bodies need exercise, good food and time outdoors there is very little if even any exception at all to this, these things are good for 100% of the population or super close to it, thinking of "parenting" as something you do unto another person is part of the problem, it shares a similarity with all our other relationships and that is you must "treat other people how you want to be treated" the moral golden rule doesn't preclude someone based on anything including how long they've lived.
Some tips. Order groceries online like Walmart or whatever local stores ya have, and do grocery pick up haha. Secondly, watch what you feed your kiddos and yourself, because all that sugar and artificial dyes and processed crap and fast food, IS making them act worse! That’s a fact. Our boys have always been breastfed then mainly plant based nutrition filled foods 🌱 loads of organic veggies/fruits, greens, our daily huge smoothie loaded with chia, hemp, flax, berries etc etc. also even for us mamas, hormones can really mess with us. So gotta take care of our health/hormones too. Not to mention not just giving antibiotics when not absolutely necessary, which is jacking our whole guts up. The gut brain connection is real. When our guts are jacked (I’ve been there from too many antibiotics growing up, mold etc) then it affects our moods etc, that’s a fact! Let’s take better care of the temple Jesus has given us! Praying this psychologist comes to know Jesus. 🙏 He is the only way, the truth and the life. Anybody who believes we came from some random boom/evolution is a fool. Period. No matter what worldly education they have.
interested if you have any advice on "taking care of your hormones"? beyond eating well
@@kathrynjoseph3331I'm not op but sleep is huge. I get a lot of benefit from supplementing magnesium. My husband has had luck with supplementing zinc and drinking raw egg yolks.
I think the grocery store can be a great training ground for self control. We can't keep our kids out of every hard situation.
Excellent video! I was impressed with Dr. Marcam being so inviting to
The podcast I have been WAITING FOR. So excited to hear Abby’s thoughts on this!
For me it came down to “who would I want to spend my afternoon with?” It’s clearly Dr. Markham. It feels like she calls out the goodness inside of me; and I want to arise to that feeling of nobility she gives me. I definitely have sinful desires, but I find I’m more willing to make good decisions when someone sees that I’m created by God to be good.
We are created with a sin nature though, are we not? Yes we want to be God, but our natural inclination without guidance is to do evil.
@shb8212 christians believe in that. In Islam, we belive that we are born good and the people around us can corrupt us, turn us good or bad.
@@shb8212 I don't think we are created with a sin nature. The concept of "sin" for me is awful. It brings guilt, punishment, shame, and makes us feel like we are born with some kind of defect just for being human. We are not created with a sin nature. We are human. Humans are humans, we sometimes do less nice things, sometimes really ugly things, many times we do beautiful things. All we need to do is understand we are all the same, we are all worthy of love and respect. If we are worthy of love and respect we are worthy of receiving and we are also vectors of love and respect to others. Then we deal with actions and consequences.
@martaso643 All of your associations with sin are 100% spot on...we all have fallen short of the glory of God. We all need a Savior... thankfully, all who fall at the feet of Jesus will be forgiven, redeemed, made new... saved. We are all worthy, that's why Jesus gave himself for each and every one of us! We are all His beautiful children, made in His image. 💜
I learned a lot from this. I appreciate the unique perspectives and experience types these women came with. They’re viewpoints, while different at times, often helped to bring important context and deeper understanding to the nuanced challenges of parenting.
This is SO good and insightful. Thanks for hosting this conversation Ellen!!!
The metaphor about the cup is from a quote from Amy Carmichael...
"A cup brimful of sweetness cannot spill even one drop of bitter water, no matter how suddenly jarred."
I’m taking so much from both of these ladies ❤
As an Early Childhood Educator, nanny and mother for over 40 years I have yet to see any child be able to identify his/her emotions as to why they did an unwanted behavior; most adults can't even identify the "why". Children need to know what is expected (blundarues, rules, limits, etc) and have natural consequences; which do not harm the child but gives them the opportunity to reflect. Without consequences MOST children and adults will continue bad behaviors. I don't like using the word "bad" because in one home dancing on the coffee table could be acceptable and not in another...so maybe i should say..behaviors one knows is NOT acceptable in their home or wherever they happen to be. Hope this made sense 💚🙏
This was like a meditative retreat. 😍 Thank you 🙏
I loved hearing how they have a lot in common but it’s the worldview that makes the Philosophies different.
This is so awesome bc I actually go back and forth with these same approaches bc I want to have my children know they are loved by us and God and not feel controlled or neglected and that they are well mannered and courteous so they are loved by others and can bring Christ to the world.
Raising 10 kids is a warrior level mom and God blessed
Really great conversation. I valued the positive and constructive approach to find common healthy ground.
I aspire to be as clear, calm, confident and kind with ny beleifs and values as abbie. This was an excellent pairing.
Love truely is the answer❤ caring is also forbidding wrong😅 respect to both of these wise ladies😊
This thing is great and full of wisdom. Thank you
What a wonderful, respectful discussion. I feel edified and inspired to be a better mom today!! ❤
love this so so much!
I loved both of the women on the show and their parenting advice! Very rare to see.
What an amazing interview full of rich and insightful advice from both perspectives. This is one of the best I've ever heard. Love how they thoroughly articulate their viewpoints while showing respect towards each other's differences
I'm so happy this popped up for me! Can't wait to watch!!
Wow Ellen. Thank you thank you THANK YOU for this podcast!! I needed this. I’ll take it as a sign from god.
I appreciate so much of what said by both. I’m a Christian parent, so implement more of Abbie’s biblical approach. But as a nanny of 30 years, I have to use the tools of the non-Christian. They work!! I WILL say that there are TONS of permissive parents out there!!!
So excited for season 2!!! I love everything you share Ellen 🙏🏽
I see both sides and I appreciate how similar they are. I'm a Christian and believe in biblical parenting, and I Understand human hearts to be first prone to sin than not. But I also want to take approaches that Dr. Markham endorses, but also keep in mind true imsinful nature, my child's need for a savior, and I can point them towards Christ, and that I love them no matter what
I think its safe to say that people have such different lifestyles and personalities, that as long as they consciously make an effort to parent your child, that they love them, then they'll be the parent the kid needs. I think different folks, different strokes x
This was a beautiful conversation! I think both women shared a lot of great wisdom. Between these two styles, I overall agree with Dr. Markham the most. But I think the most ideal style would be Dr. Markham’s parenting techniques paired with Abby’s Biblical teachings. ❤
Am I the only one who can't really tell where they greatly differ? I don't buy that DrM never raised her voice or reprimanded her kids. That's just wild and unrealistic. That alone makes me not trust her. Also I don't know how you can raise kids biblically and never reprimand.
@@shb8212I think a lot of it comes down to definitions. There are things Dr. M does that Abbie considers punishment, but she doesn’t use that language to describe it.
It seems like there is also a large emphasis placed on tone (from both parents!) and I suspect that Dr. M considers reprimanding in accordance to its connotation and definition that “implies a severe, formal, often public or official rebuke.”
Based on her interview tone, if a child were hitting another child I could certainly see her saying something to an older toddler like “I can see that you’re really upset right now and that you hit your brother. I can’t allow you to hit your brother” (physically intervenes with the child and has also reproved them)