I just realized as I was watching this that the strangers had their own simulation, but we had one too. We could have chosen to stay in the time loop forever, just as the strangers stayed in their simulation forever. But because we and the prisoner are brave enough to accept death and see what's next, we see realty for what it really is. I think we all had that moment where we were staring at the warp core, contemplating if removing it is a good idea.
I love this parallel! This explains exactly why meeting the Prisoner is such an emotional point of the game, and why their final message was so important - they know exactly what it is that we are going through.
You say that like I didn’t immediately take out the warp core before fully understanding the implications until AFTER I died by supernova and got a game over.
@@JShortsFR When I realized that I had to take out the warp core, I didn't know if I had the strength to do it. But I did, I tried to go as fast as possible, and I made it to the last tunnel of Dark Bramble, forgetting about the 4th anglerfish right before the spacecraft. It swallowed me and I just about cried because for some reason I thought taking the warp core would delete my save.
@@JShortsFR same lmao, but it was more like I took it out, thinking I had to bring it to the Naomi on the quantum moon, then wondering why I wasn’t getting looped back after the sky went dark.
when you show the prisoner that their sacrifice kickstarted thousands of years of scientific discovery that gave your life meaning all the way up to the end of the universe and all they can do is throw their head back and howl...... im gonna go cry for 14.3 billion years
My absolute favorite thing about Echoes is how its theme and mechanics are diametrically opposed (but in balance with) the original Nomai story. HEAVY SPOILERS TO FOLLOW (PLEASE AVOID IF YOU HAVEN'T COMPLETED ECHOES): With the Nomai story, it's about curiosity, exploration, and the desire for understanding (for both the Nomai and the Hearthians). We piece together clues, read ancient correspondence, and solve a mystery spread throughout a solar system - a very large sandbox! With the Echoes story, we explore, but with a much narrower scope. There's this new emotional layer of *fear* and uncertainty, as we flip back and forth between sympathy and horror toward these creatures...trying to piece the story together through our interpretations of images, not text. And the mechanics. Match. The theme. We learn that fear truly doomed the Strangers' inhabitants. And what does it do for us? Our own fear prevents us from learning the game mechanics that are within our grasp the entire time. Fear tells us "Death is final. Stay away from that burning fire!" It tells us "Your light source is your lifeline. Keep it close by your side." It makes us believe that if we feel threatened, it's for a good reason - so we don't shine our light *back* at what's hunting us and take initiative. We instead cower in the dark. In order to make any progress in Echoes, you have to learn to do something that challenges your instinct to run from death, stay away from the dark, and to freeze-up in terror. In the Nomai story, the challenges are logical and mental. In the Echoes story, the challenges are interpretive and emotional. They're two complementary approaches to get at what it means to truly be an explorer. You have to build an understanding of the outside world, *as well as* your inner self. Total brilliance from Mobius.
People have likened to the darker aspects of Echoes to a "horror game". I think the crux of Echoes is actually in determining *whether that's true or not*.
I love this comment so much because it mirrors what I found so fascinating about the base game. The way they combined Physics, Astronomy and Quantum Physics is unlike any game I have ever experienced. We should not be able to see a large celestial body like the Quantum Moon disappear and reappear where it wants to! It was jarring until you learn that its part of the game and then the magic of Outer Wilds really starts to set in.
@@NateAlyn Totally! And that mechanic is presented as a scientific principle that you then have to learn to apply later. Quantum states are demonstrated early on, in the museum - and later, you're explicitly tested in the tower (of "Knowledge", no less). You have to learn what the Nomai have learned. But in Echoes, those discoveries you make aren't based on scientific principles - we've moved from space exploration...to a form of exploration that is immediate and based on your own personal experience of the world. Ahhhh it's amazing
I loved the DLC as well. Only thing I'd change is add more objects with light behind them on the dark areas. One of the coolest things the dlc does is making you see with shadows - like the last owl on the well room, on Starlit Cove. You do not see the last owl, instead you see it's shadow on the back light. Adding more objects with silhouettes in the dark would allow the player to keep their bearings using reference points while still in total dark rooms, and would feed into the DLC's theme of lack of sight.
That's the only criticism I have for the DLC. The stumbling around in the dark felt a bit tedious at times and it felt like there was too much of it. Other than that though it's a great addition to the base game.
@@HarryDuBois616 While I do agree completely with you, something that makes me feel better about the dark sections is the fact that [SPOILERS AHEAD] they allow you to completely skip them. 1) The Swamp being starting shortcut + waiting for the dam; 2) The Cove with just committing suicide on the tomb's fireplace; 3) The Gorge with the secret bridge making the path literally the easiest of them all. An argument could be made about 2 and 3 needing knowledge from their respective archives, but in that case the following is also possible: 2b) Turning the lights off, resetting the dream and dropping off the starting stones directly next to the well (can't skip last section but it's just walking forward and avoiding that one elk) 3b) Turning the bridge visible during the lit Gorge, then using it to down the elevator, turning off the lights then using the elevator from another tomb (Tower, specifically) 2b has the issue of using incorrect fall damage, which is kind of unintuitive. So Cove is the worst of the bunch, I feel. 3b takes some planning, but it's how I did it when playing. The Gorge just has too many elks, I feel. More than it should. ANOTHER argument could be made that all 1, 2 and 3 can be thought out (1 is intended, 2 is realizing the bell can't wake up a dead person which makes perfect sense and 3 is good routing), but it still shouldn't be relied upon.
I feel like this will vary between players. I ran my head against the dream word twice. Then realized all the info I needed was basically in the real world. After I learned all there was in the real world the solutions are essentially given to you.
I think the only thing I found mildly disappointing is that we never needed the signalscope inside the Stranger and the Scout felt a bit underused. Like I know they wanted to use all the new cool mechanics, but it weirdly stuck out to me how rarely we used base game mechanics. The red herring with the translator though was top notch 👌
The scout itself wasn't used about as much as the base game I felt, both checking dam integrity like Brittle Hollow and shooting through tight spaces like Ember Twin, but the lack of any dimensional shenanigans meant it lost some of it's more unique functionality like in Dark Bramble. The flashlight was definitely used a lot more, obviously. Definitely agree about the signalscope, it would have been interesting if each entry point for the simulation had some kind of signal.
oh god yes, this. I kept pulling out the scope so many times just hoping to catch at least something. like some weird radio static or chatter or maybe a hint of anything quantum. i feel like its a bit of a missed opportunity
How was the scout unuderused? You need the scout to see one of the codes, you need the scout to check the dam integrity, you need photo mode to navigate two ghost matter patches, the scout can also report hazards like the white water rapids, electric cables, and the fires... it gets a ton of use as far as I can see. It makes sense form a lore perspective that there would be no signals for the signalscope since the Stranger was trying to stay cloaked and hidden.
My biggest disappointment was how underused the flaws in the simulation were, despite how cool and well thought out they were. I also feel the same way about the quantum rules in the base game, with the stranger itself being kind of like a second quantum moon in a weird way. As for the signal scope, it wasn't completely useless, as the shape of the stranger made it so you could use it as a telescope to look at other areas from a distance (which is how I found out about the hidden gorge), which was a feature never really practical in the base game. Still, could have used that and the scout a bit more. Also, I'd just like to point out, you can tell Hal about the new language and ask him to translate it, and while they get excited about doing so, they tell you that it'll take about six weeks and they'll need a bunch of samples, which I find to be very outer wilds.
This is just a detail that may be up to interpretation but I wanted to point it out. The Pursuers (what I refer to the inhabitants by) saw what the eye would do. If you really pay attention, it showed the universe dying after one interacted with the eye. But it also showed that from their dead body, new life began to grow around them. It is possible that the Pursuers knew that it was showing them the universe was dying and that interacting with it would allow a new universe to grow in its place instead of what I think most people think of it just showing them the universe dying. With that in mind their reaction becomes different with how you interpret it. If you just see the eye showing them the universe dying, then their reaction is out of a desperate attempt to trap themselves in an illusion so that they don't have to see the oncoming death of the universe. If you interpret it as them realizing that from this universe's death, a new one would be born, then their actions become much more selfish. They intentionally censored their own history to only show people the bad parts of the eye. They blocked the eye's signal so no one would restart the universe and they wouldn't be destroyed. They were willing to let every other world die and not let new ones come into being. It may not be the correct interpretation but it definitely is something interesting.
Did it even show them that the universe was dying though? Perhaps they thought the universe would go on forever and the eye was just a sort of "Genesis device" that would kill everything and refresh it, not revive a dying universe. In that context, their actions sort of make sense. Except for the one where they retreat into the dream world, that's just a weird action either way.
The Stranger - the Pursuers'/Followers' perfect little Supernova Bunker that was also programmed to move AWAY from the Supernova. So long as it wasn't destroyed, the inhabitants of the Stranger could live forever near the fake fire of a simulation of their home, in theory forever dooming everyone else to save themselves from what they saw as annihilation and to make sure their species' story never ended.
the eye showed them everything it had to show them, otherwise the prisoner wouldn't have done what they did. i think the question is more just whether or not the strangers fully understood the consequences of their actions or if they were just so horrified by the idea of the current universe's annihilation that everything after that seemed completely unimportant in comparison
@@Ayelis retreating into a simulated reality of the homeworld they destroyed in pursuit of something that didn't deliver whatever they expected it to is probably the most understandable thing they did imo
It definitely showed them the rebirth, but their reaction would vary wildly if they didn't know the universe was already dying. Sacrificing all life for a potential future is a much heavier proposition when your solar system isn't 20 minutes from death.
I think the moment in the DLC that hit the hardest for me was when I looked at one of the slides in the dream world and find out what the Strangers had to do to construct their ship to travel to the Eye. The same slide in the normal world specifically has that portion burnt out, so it didn't even occur to me why they couldn't just cut their losses and go back home.
How many loops ended with the Nomai probe crashing through the stranger and noone knew about it because they didn't bother to log errors, only the final coordinates? Imagine if they added an entry in the sunken module that could serve as another hint to hook you into the DLC story if you purchased it! "Loop number 20569, connection with the probe has been lost for a few seconds, after which its trajectory has been altered. No object could be detected at the estimated location of the anomaly. Displaying coordinates..." Though I guess the only way to use the Nomai coordinates is with the Vessel's systems, and warping the already broken vessel straight into the stranger's original position in the supernova's range after turning off the ATP is not a thing you want to accidentally do...
Nice thinking, hadn't even crossed my mind! But of course it must've happened! That would be really interesting if a Nomai computer in the probe tracking module mentioned contact with the stranger.
@@Greenpixel16 It can, but if the Nomai were smart they'd take the locations of the known planets & sun into account when calculating the probe's trajectory in the first place. The stranger was unknown to them so that's a different story.
@@Jaynat_SF That also means that there's a loop of the game where the probe fires and hits the stranger. There've already been loops where the probe just orbital strikes the player as they get to their ship.
9:25 I disagree with your opinion about owlelk slider reel being more personal than Nomai white boards. I think text is less ambiguous than images. When I was playing I feel I understand the Nomai's much better than the owlelks. As such, I feel much, much more connected to Solanum than to the Prisoner.
I agree that we understand the nomai a lot better. I also feel more connected to Solanum as well. But imo I think thats because we spent A LOT more time with the nomai and their story. We had hours and hours of following their footsteps and feeling what they were feeling as they did the same things we do. We find a bunch of environmental stories as well. But with the strangers we only get about 5-10 minutes of movies.
It took a few attempts to figure out why the DLC felt like such a chore. No text and light based puzzles meant playing in the dark and narrative quiet. The owls speak in flip book, and this was cute at first but communicates so weakly that I grew to dislike it quickly. Add to that they drop you into the matrix where you're really playing in the dark with no communication, and now your beloved equipment is gone, I kept finding excuses to explore the main game again. Because the owls have a written language but feel compelled to use power point, and because they are revisionists who hid everything interesting, the DLC felt very much like a job. The minute the raft dropped, the DLC was over for me.
I didn’t even realize a trailer was dropped for the dlc, I found out that the dlc was out a day after release day on a whim so I truly went in blind. In my head I was expecting perhaps another planet or celestial body drifting into the solar system to explore and not much else. The surprise I had when I first dropped into the stranger and looked up was truly magical
Same. I had no idea about the dlc, but was lucky enough to see it on steam the day it came out. Had no idea what to expect but was far from disappointed. Fastest I've ever bought a dlc. Ever.
I intentionally avoided learning *anything* about the DLC before it came out. I'm so glad I did, because it was one of the purest gaming experiences I've ever had.
I think Echoes is just as good as the base game, which is just about the highest praise I can possibly give anything. It's very different in terms of gameplay and story, but does a really great job further exploring the main game's themes, but from a totally different perspective. The story has so many devastating emotional gut punches throughout, and they're communicated to the player without a single word of text or dialogue. An extremely impressive feat, considering that the main game's story is communicated to the player almost *entirely* through text. The ending was absolutely brilliant too, tying perfectly back into the main game's story while also standing on its own as a fantastically powerful emotional payoff for what the player had to go through to get there. The gameplay was fantastic too, completely ditching the quantum puzzles from the main game and going in a totally new direction. The techniques needed to beat the game were ingenious too. They're so easy to do, yet none but the most experimental would think to do them until the game teaches you about them. The uh... *intense*... sections were simple in design, but very effective (i.e. terrifying) due to the fantastic sound design and lighting. Andrew Prahlow and the entire sound design team did an outstanding job here. Same goes for the environment artists, and the gameplay designers, I mean holy crap really just the entire dev team deserves as much praise as I can possibly give them. They knocked it out of the park, again. I thought Mobius caught lightning in a bottle with the original game, and that it was pretty unlikely they'd ever be able to make something that good again. Never been happier to be so wrong.
What do you think of the discussion around the frustrations caused by the horror segments? i do like the interpretation of pushing through fear to find the solution, but i think i agree more with the sentiment that the dark world was frustrating to navigate, and that the tools you need to make navigation easier and more fun are hidden at the *end* of said segments. i got turned around very easily trying to figure out where to go in the swampy area next to the music hall for example.
The movement was one of my favorite parts of the base game so I definitely agree that the simulation sections felt frustrating. It was like playing a Mario game where they take away your ability to jump.
I felt that the inconsistency of the AI in those sections was a bit annoying. Near the end, I felt I was learning nothing new and just wasting time fighting against the mechanics to move on.
I think they should've made alternative routes a bit more viable. I liked coming up with plans to avoid the owlks (like waiting for the bridge to snuff out their artifacts) but for the starlit cove, once their artifacts go out, you only have like 2 minutes to get down to the forbidden archives. I kinda wish it happened a bit earlier in the loop instead.
Wrapped up the story earlier today and finished off the achievements an hour ago. I really disliked the stealth segments mechanically but found it manageable after you get told about the lantern-trick. I liked the Reduced Frights option too but I really wish they didn't plaster it on the opening menu and create unnecessary paranoia. I definitely preferred getting to know the Nomai through texts in the main game as opposed to the Owlks through reels, but what sealed the deal for me with this story-telling method was the amazing soundtrack accompanying the reels, and the use of segmenting the music into certain slides on the reel. Like when the faces on the Owlks become sinister in the reel where they realize the universe is dying, the music changes to give more life to the slide. The error report reels are by far the coolest tutorial/reveal method I've ever seen where the moment the "glitch/bug" in the simulation happens, the music changes to the eerie soundtracks 'Secret Ways' or an extended loop of the end of 'Test Chamber Three' from the OST. The music and it's implementation really makes the DLC rise to the occasion for me. I also think it's very clever how they positioned the ship to let you in through the front the first time because you approach it from the satellite, so you can have that drop-down raft inside the hut the first time and get wowed floating down the river, but once you start traveling directly from Timber Hearth you enter the backside and can get yourself to relevant locations quicker.
Preconceived notions are the sin of the viewer. The title is accurate lol. I give my honest opinions on echoes and the things it includes. They just happen to be good.
This was posted on an earlier video, I'm bringing it up again: It looks like the Owlks had some sort of divided class society! There is a discrepancy in the number shown in some of the reels and the number contained within the simulation pits. As well, the ones shown burning down the temple to the eye are wearing the same jewelry as the ones in the pits, and don't forget that there is a temple to the burned reels - which means it was made after - not before, the Owlks went in the simulation! And, the second church to the eye was not burned down! There would be no reason for it to survive unless it was built afterwards! In the same area as the burned reels!
@@aspectofhades That's the only question this theory doesn't answer. It answers why the church is around, why there aren't as many Owlks in the simulation, and why the burning reels exist with prominence. But it doesn't tell us what happens to the extra Owlks who didn't wear jewelry in the reels. Based on the ending, there should be some graves somewhere if graves were commonplace considering the Prisoner had one, or it could just be that the discrepancy is merely an error and the burning reel location was created by the Prisoner.
@@BarbaricCrafter1 Interesting. I just investigated a bit more based on this. The inhabitants are clearly guarding their secrets - when you extinguish the lights in 2 out of 3 of the simulated they move to positions to protect their secrets. But before they burned the reels they put it in the scanning device, which I can only assume digitises them and why all the reels are present in the forbidden libraries *within* the simulation. So they wanted to keep the knowledge, but keep it only to those within the simulation - just like they hide they Eye itself, they hide any knowledge of how they blocked its signal. There's an empty alcove in the tower, which I presume is the Prisoner's. why wouldn't someone else fill it if there were more owlks? You can also see that not all the owlks are wearing the jewelry in the adjacent alcoves, so I don't think they denote any special status - after all, getting to live eternally (even if just a simulation) surely is only for the special? My understanding is that just like the Prisoner leaves the simulation, the others only leave it temporarily. They catch the Prisoner, seal them in the vault, digitise and then burn their reels, repurpose a temple of the Eye to be a "Temple of Resolve" (the burnt reels) and then re-enter the simulation with the intent of never leaving. There is no reason to build a new temple to the Eye, just to tear the symbol down. They are just doubling down on their existing plans.
@@fwopkins Oh! I hadn't conceived of the notion that the burning of the reels could be seen as a good thing by the Owlks! This of course makes a lot of sense, and explains the existence of the burned reels as a marked location, as a sort of absolution or evolution of the religion of the Eye of the Universe. And it definitely has historical precedent as well. Perhaps the second temple to the eye was left standing because it served a functional purpose, whereas the large temple near the tower town did not.
One thing I thought was cool: even though the owlks represent everything the game is opposed to (fear of the unknown, shutting out others, holding onto the past instead of building a new future), it still shows compassion to them. You're not able to blow out their lanterns or shut down the servers, respecting their choice. And we also respect their experiences and knowledge, so there're things worth learning and experiencing in their virtual world. You can pass judgment on their race of a sort by not letting the prisoner play along, but you get a better ending if you value what they bring as well. Great way of exploring more themes in an already amazing game.
It does give you a way to kill them though. Most of them are doomed, but 1/3 of the inhabitants survive the flood and even escape the supernova, unless you take the prototype artifact to the last fire. It's the easiest fire to get to from where you find the prototype, and you get an achievement for doing it. I can't prove that's intentional design, but it at least shows that Mobius weren't really considering that players might feel sentimental about the inhabitants. If you get that achievement, it might not even cross your mind that you are wiping out the remaining pursuers (aside from The Prisoner) by doing so. Hardly compassionate imo.
Wow, you sure do look really small on the raft. I didn't perceive the raft that big 😄 I loved the DLC. Sure there are things you'll miss, flying your ship and easy access to ship log, low gravity, etc., but the Stranger is so cool and unique it's fine putting those in the background. The game design of your introduction to the ring world is so awesome too because you'll feel confused, scared, panic (when the raft falls) then immediately in awe and fascination with how the environment looks.
The Owlks were big - which is why their furniture and the gravity on the planet match that. The DLC makes you feel small, and powerless in the simulation area. You really feel like you're walking in the footsteps of giants.
Another thing to add. I don’t think the strangers were inherently “mean” to us. Through the reels we see it can be assumed that although the Strangers are curious, they are absolutely fearful and skittish, especially after seeing what the Eye can do after destroying their home world to get to it. It makes sense that they would want to snuff out anything new in their simulation they built to try and feel normal again. Furthermore, when the strangers do catch you in their simulation, all they do is kick you out of it by blowing out your lantern, nothing more.
Just because they have a reason to do it doesnt make it any nicer. The instant we see any of them they get upset and chase us down to get rid of us. They dont even say hello or ask how our Tuesday was. Its rude lol.
@@TheLoreExplorer The problem with that is when you jump in a river without a lantern, you can hear yourself drowning. This means you actually feel everything happening too you. Sure it doesn't actually kill you, but you still feel yourself getting snapped in half.
I think the Owlks overall are a very visual species, like there are the projectors and the projection of the dream world, but they also scan and beam information through light, like they did with the Eye and like the conversation with the Prisoner (as well as the other sources of light you can walk into to watch what appear to be memories). So maybe it's a metaphor, but mostly I think it's thematic. What fascinates me about this though is that the Nomai were obviously a very textual species. Even the recordings we encounter are stored as text (or we wouldn't be able to understand them), and if anything it suggests their primary method of communication was through text even given other options. It's like the devs decided to do the exact opposite of everything they did with Outer Wilds for Echoes of the Eye, and I mean that across the board: OW: -Friendly but (almost) wholly absent aliens, most of their history is explained through text, few examples of images -Multiple planets to explore, ship is a major feature -Primarily traversing areas that are unfamiliar to both the player and the inhabitant of an Earthlike world -Knowledge can be difficult to find but is freely shared; player is encouraged to seek out connections -Player faces the primary antagonists from within their ship (ideally) EotE: -Decidedly unfriendly and very present (so to speak) aliens, most of their history is explained through images, few examples of writing -One location, ship all but unnecessary (and I loved the observation that the raft is kind of a substitute, esp with its physics) -Primarily traversing a very Earthlike world that would not be unfamiliar even to the player character -Knowledge is intentionally obscured; player must fight against both the location and its former inhabitants to claim it -Player faces the primary antagonists without so much as a suit I could go on forever about the design of that last one, like. The whole fact that when you doze off, it works like normal, making you think "ah, it didn't work," and then the moment you woke up either the creepy coffin or the creep-ass corpses are GONE, and (if you're in one of the corpse locations) you immediately discover the lack of suit because you have to jump up on a ledge to get out? Marvelous. I was deeply horrified.
Lemmino had an interesting question in his video about virtual reality (or another video that brought up the topic) about what happens if we make a perfect reality in the computer. Will we continue to keep exploring outwards, or just keep going inwards to further perfect this artificial reality? I think that’s what happened to the strangers. They saw the eye, were infatuated by it, and sacrificed so much to explore find out more about it. But when they saw the truth, they got scared and shut themselves away from the universe. They clung to the past, and wanted to find the best possible way for things to go back to the way they were. Back when things made sense. There’s a lot of things I want to talk about the dlc, but that was something that stood out to me while playing it.
I Never really tought about the Eye being sentient but after the dlc it started to fester on my mind. The Eye, by what I understood, was seeking a being to commune with it and recreate the universe, because, alone, it couldn't. The owlks destroyed their planet to answer the call of their God, in hopes of wonders only to be met with the prospect of the impending doom. Really well done. Such a nice game
it started with THE eye, then the Prisoner with 2 let the signal back out, the the 3 eyed Nomai followed the short signal burst before dying out, and finally the 4 eyed Hearthian pieced it all together to allow a dying universe to reset. Echoes is a masterfully integrated DLC that perfectly adds on to an amazing game seamlessly
Just like the main game, the world hides its secrets by paralyzing you with fear. Since the solutions were even closer to under your nose in the dlc, they had to crank up the fear. Make sure the player is too scared to experiment. Despite being in a time loop we still can’t overcome our base instincts. Also can we all appreciate how disturbing those teleportation hands are?
I can’t lie when I was watching the final animation of the sharing of stories I literally had goosebumps and so many memories flood back of when I first explored the universe a couple of years ago. Really beautiful
I got a flashback to meeting Solanum and I remembered how happy I felt not for me, not even for the Hatchling but just thinking about all his friends and family that had dreamed of meeting a Nomai. Even if it was at the end of the universe. It made me think trying and failing isn't so bad when someday all those attempts might amount to something beyond our wildest dreams.
There is a little detail I find really cool in the simulation (near the pit area). You can find the prisonner's destroyed house, with his telescope still pointing in the sky.
Also, in the Cinder Isles, you can find the prisoner's portrait completly scratched, in one of the houses (the one with the white painting on the front)
@@pilpoilanim How do you know that the scratched portrait is the prisoner's? There is an empty alcove in the fire room of the tower. I think it's reasonable to assume that's their alcove.
I'm pretty sure The Stranger is moving away from the sun constantly as the loop progresses. You may have noticed it isn't destroyed and you aren't killed by the supernova. There's a room at the top of the dam that shows that it is moving away from the sun to escape the supernova. There's even a little timer that kinda shows how far along the loop is.
After playing through the DLC, I believe my prediction that the Eye is omniscient stands corrected. There’s now a given reason is started and stopped transmitting, and it can be theorized that it began transmitting in the first place simply because that’s its job- To signal somebody to come and enter it in order to make a new universe once the current one is reaching its end. I think it’s worth noting that the Strangers’ vision of the Eye destroying the universe may actually be true. After all, it’s hard to create a universe when one already exists in the space you need to use. I recall the best allegory I’ve seen being that the Eye is just the universe’s reset button. Heck, you see it happen when you first enter the Ancient Glade.
"For every pathway lit up, there was a brave traveler who traversed it while it was dark. Then set a candle so that others could see there's no reason to be scared" I know its not the most profound statement, but that's really powerful to me.
The thing for me is the themes of exploration I felt this DLC made that much stronger with this new race adding a 3rd theme of exploration to the species. The Hearthians are folksy explorers; on primitive wooden craft, out there in dangerously unsuitable craft in a rush to explore the corners they can survive long enough to reach. The Nomai are researchers; exploring the unknown with proper preparations and technology for the sake of knowledge and seeing what the universe and nature has hidden away. The Outsiders are more religious, went on a mass exodus and sacrificed everything to seek out and find the symbol of their worship. All three races are different themes on explorers that may travel great distances for one reason or another. Primitive colonial explorers, advanced field researchers, and worshipers on a pilgrimage to a holy site. All the races and their core themes come back to exploration of a different style. I mean, I could be reaching, I haven't really shared my thoughts before, but I don't think I am stretching things here. The Hearthians are on wooden craft that barely function, are easy to crash and destroy, and even in-game dialogue points out things like how you're riding in a spacecraft of wood nailed to alien technology that makes it barely work; they want to see space so badly they're hashing together poorly made wooden structures and catapulting themselves in their rush to explore. The Nomai, down to the children, are obsessed with their research and knowledge (even having ticks where they say "hypothesis:" in casual language), knowledge is everything to their species as the game presents them. The Outsiders are a little harder to place since we must interpret from what we see and not explicit dialogue, but between the paintings, candles, churches, and temple-like tower for them to enter the simulation.. I got a certain religious vibe from them. They may have forbidden it after they saw the eye up close, but they did not seek the eye for knowledge, they sought it like it was a deity or object of worship. I loved the DLC, but it's the thing that really made this element of the game's setting stand out to me more. A whole new location with much to see in it... and it builds little on the main story, and is all about a new set of travelers that went to unknown parts for reasons different than the other two races.
@@TheLoreExplorer A fair rebuttal. Without explicit language, it's mostly semantics or interpretation of what Mobius intended in regards to faith vs religion. I probably went towards religion because.. well.. it's easy, very very easy, to treat those two words as interchangeable, and referring to their reaction to the eye as "religion" is not unfair.
I viewed them as a much more emotionally based species as well. The Nomai were incredibly hardy and industrious, seemingly able to crash land on a planet and immediately pop up cities and get back to their goals of researching. Yet the two eyed aliens are definitely more traditional and emotionally based in their thinking, right from the second that i landed on The Stranger I immediately realized that it was probably designed to look like their home world. And the way that they destroyed their world, only to end up creating a facsimile world in their minds, was a tremendous tragedy
i was blown away by the DLC. Outer Wilds just has the greatest story telling and captivating narrative i've ever experienced in a video game, fueling my exploration. the way they did the slide reels was incredible, i think. the initial reels being burnt out so they could give you clues and hints as to what is happening, to drive you further into the game and exploration, but not revealing the real heartbreak until viewing the full reels at the end. every aspect of this DLC is genius. the integration, the design, the levels, the puzzles, everything! if i had one criticism it would be that we could have done more or figured out more about their little spaceships in the hangers. i was super intrigued by those when i first came upon the stranger
Loved the DLC, would insta buy again! Appreciated the spoopyness too lol The first time I entered The Stranger, I flew towards it at full speed, because I thought it's something like a black hole that I have to catch/enter quick lol. I was so hyped and shouted "Let's fucking gooooo!" just to get scared shitless when everything went black and I crashed into it lmao. I somehow survived it, barely alive, can't see shit... man. This game is a masterpiece
Having played through the dlc myself and beating it 2 days after release then watching your playthrough, lemme tell you. It was great watching you piece things together as You discovered them. I can't wait for my friend to play through the dlc, he's almost finished the basegame (he's still way too scared of DB to attempt the ending yet). But lemme tell you, the fact you called them "owlelks" kinda got to me. Lemme explain, Whatever you decide to call them is your choice, I called them "Dreamers" because I clocked as soon we get the first reel of them crying over pictures of home, that something happened to it. (Also they reminded me of the Dreamers from Hollow Knight so my brain just labelled them Dreamers) And that they couldn't go back be it they didnt have the lifespan or genetic diversity to make a return trip. So instead they researched a way to get "home," creating the Dream. Hell when I first entered the dream, the first thing out of my mouth was 'Dream a Little Dream of Home.'
There is something which is quite amazing. When you share your story with the Prisonner. You can see pictures of the nomai mothership get caught in dark bramble or the ghost matter killing them. But if you haven't done the main story, you don't have those pictures so you share an incomplete story to the prisonner
There is just a ton of attention to detail in this game, every part is incredibly well done. What blew my mind is I launched a scout straight up in one direction, then in the opposite direction, and it actually properly accounts for the gravity you'd get in a ring world
Not quite. It's got spinward and antispinward coriolis effects (which is sweet), but I don't think it accounts for gravity scaling linearly with distance from the center. I'm pretty sure there should be a significant difference in perceived gravity between the top and bottom of the dam, but it's a constant 1.3 throughout the habitat. It's a shame, since I'm sure the devs could've made some really interesting puzzles with it.
a theme of the game is having a spark of wonder, adventure and exploration. and the only important part of life is the road you take and sharing it with your family and friends even if the universe will end and existence is pointless the journey to get their still mattered to you the conscious observer 1) The signal the eye sent sparked such a drive to explore and ride out into the unknown in the elk people that they decimated their own homeworld to do so. They were never planning on looking back, only going forward to the next adventure. 2) upon learning the truth of universes rebirth and the eye they fell into despair losing their spark of adventure and exploration choosing to wallow in the past and fearfull of what comes next after the end of the universe and the start of a new one without them 3) that spark and drive of wonder, adventure, and exploration that led the elk people to come to the hearthian system was still present in the prisoner. He released the eyes signal to spread that spark to the universe. even if the universe is destined to end eventually isnt the jouney to get their the important part 4) the player sees his younger self get that spark as he smiles at the museum exhibit of nomai text and symbol of the eye which leads us on our own adventure in the face of a nihilistic universe 5) riding into the sunset with a fatal wound is a classic western movie ending. the prisoner also recognized the spark of adventure, wonder, and exploration in the player and is extending his hand to invite on a metaphorical journey together as kindred spirts. the classis line of "it was honor to know you, wish we had more time, we could of been good friends" as dieing last words from a new friend whom briefly shared a grand adventure together
this is why im subbed, such brilliant insightful commentary. My 2nd biggest mindblow moment (behind the hearthian slide reel) was when i realized that the strangers were the reason the eye stopped sending signals. When playing the base game, one of the biggest questions i had unanswered was why the eye stopped sending signals to the nomai, and during the DLC i was thinking how are the strangers going to tie into the main game? All of this was answered as soon as i saw the reel, which was very satisfying.
Its always nice when youre looking for a piece of a puzzle and find it somewhere youd never expect. Solving the whole thing. Outer Wilds is good a manufacturing those moments! Thank you so much for the kind words strange robotic apple!
I think story-wise, the dlc definitely lives up to expectations. However, I definitely preferred the gameplay in the base game. First, I really liked flying the ship in the base game and was a bit disappointed that the game made the ship less useful in the dlc. Second, with the puzzle solving, the game definitely holds your hand a bit more. Like in the base game you would have to piece together clues from completely separate investigations, whereas most of the puzzles in the dlc consist of you finding a slide reel that essentially shows you the solution of how to progress. Though the base game might've been too cryptic with their puzzles, considering that I either needed to look up solutions or use unintended solutions to reach certain areas. The dlc probably was made easier in response with it but I feel they mightve gone too far because of how straight forward I felt everything was.
I can only imagine they are referring to the reels. But even then I had a hard time interpreting most of the “solution” reels. Either way it did feel a little bad getting solutions shown to us. Especially after the base game. Imagine after tracking down feldspars signal on dark bramble and then they send you a message with directions on how to get past the anglers. That’s sort of what the reels are like. Idk.
beyond the story elements you discuss in this video, i think the DLC is mechanically even better than the base game. i think it has a lot of more interesting puzzles (such as learning the glitches in the simulation world or discovering hidden paths). the sections where you must avoid the owls in the simulation world are very fun and feel like an extension to dark bramble, wherein the idea of needing to survive against hostile lifeforms is explored further. the one problem with those sections, though, is how easy it is to manipulate the owls. probably the scariest game ever would be one similar to the simulation but with more frightening (and smart) enemies and no glitch in the simulation that allows you to surveil the place easily Also, it seems as if the anglerfish have become more alert since i last played the game. i was probably just out of practice while getting to the eye of the universe but the one in the first seed began chasing me even thoughi provoked less than what i would expect to be necessary
Honestly, the owl sections were nothing but frustrating, especially the third one, glad that it's possible to bypass it using the elevator. Trying to avoid enemies while not being able to see anything is not fun or challenging at all.
I stopped about 10 minutes in when you mentioned that you weren't sure if there was a deeper meaning to the simulated world / projections, and I think I have some insight. One theme that stands out in the simulated world is truth in simulation. In real (game) world, you solve puzzles by learning the laws of physics, studying history, and learning about the solar system. In the simulated world you start out by solving puzzles like a video game: calling moving platforms that move along tracks, turning bridges 'on' and 'off,' using magic field of view warping teleporters, and sneaking around enemies. Then, later on as you learn that those rules you've been learning to follow are fake, you break them, and ignore the puzzle solutions as they were programmed in. This stands in contrast to the 'non'-simulated world of the base game, with it's deep commitment to truth in simulation. The Dream World is like a stage play in comparison to the solar system. In my first playthrough, I though I had to block the sand on the Ash Twin to get through the warp, and because of how the physics system is coded, that actually worked! As far as I know that's actually an intended solution. Eventually, when it's time to say goodbye to this world that you have learned and loved, you part tear with a smile and a song. The dream world shows us what happens in a fake world with fake simulation: fake solutions. By the time you beat the DLC you are playing like damn speedrunner. It doesn't matter what entrance you go in from, so you pick the one that's easiest, and start by hopping directly into the fire. You ignore the puzzles and stealth mechanics, hop into the void and wrongwarp to the end of the game. Because you have entered a glitched state, certain mechanics fail to apply to you, and you look up the final code essentially by datamining, something that Mobius even referenced by including codes to datamine or brute force for all three bridges. I think that the deeper meaning is clear: Mobius uses truth in simulation to speak to us about the *real* world. The game is a projection, and the game within the game is a projection within a projection. No one mourns the end of the Dream World. Indeed, 2/3 of it are doomed by the act of cowardice that saves the remaining inhabitants from the supernova, but the player is even given the option to wipe out the remaining Strangers, and given the opportunity to do so by accident, earning an achievement in the process. In this reading, the devs don't respect the Dream World, nor do they respect its inhabitants. In a way, its construction is the same mistake that The Prisoner hopes to not repeat in the next universe. A wretched nostalgia, a desperate desire to cling to what we already know, and even to simulate what was lost. Ready Player One said it first, but reality is the only place you can get a good marshmallow.
So not to take away from the amazing write up. I truly appreciate you taking the time. But there are a few mistakes in the write up. In no circumstances were you meant to data mine the games code. Unless you somehow mean inside the dream world. But even then idk what you’re talking about. The first code we use the artifact glitch. The second code we use the falling beneath the world glitch. And for the third code we die. As for the intended solution for the atps warp. You simply stand under the roof and walk onto the pad as the sand pillar is halfway past. Clogging the hole is clever though! But tbh I don’t buy the whole “they put a simulation inside a simulation inside another simulation to teach us simulations are bad. “ I think it more has to do with the fact the strangers projected all their hopes and dreams onto the eye. And then when it didn’t turn out the way they wanted…they projected some malicious intent on the eye. None of the things they did were based off fact. But rather some projection of feelings or emotions.
@@TheLoreExplorer yeah I mean using the 'glitch' to see the code, not reading the game files. I still think there's a good reason that the bridges have codes, even if it's just so you could brute force them in theory. And it's not that simulations are bad, Outer Wilds is a simulation itself. It's the nostalgia for simulations that the stranger's mistake condemns. Simulations are wonderful for what they show us about reality. Truth in simulation ::)
I’m sorry. I just think I don’t understand something here at a fundamental level. (Maybe in the dlc or in your interpretation). Or maybe I’m just confused because thats not really connecting the projection of reels, projection of “reality”(with the artifacts), and projection of the strangers thoughts as light. Idk. In a very real sense there was no truth inside their simulation that wasn’t already in “reality”. They went out of their way to hide that truth.
@@TheLoreExplorer Projection is symbolic. The projectors were the Strangers' first attempt to recreate their home, essentially by watching it on TV. Later the reels are used to record the Stranger's history, but why? The Prisoner has a reason to record and hide what they did, but the other Strangers, even the cult obsessed with obscuring the truth, still saved a copy of their history and hid it away. It's like what Don Hertzfeldt explores in 'The World of Tomorrow.' The Strangers are obsessed with memory and preservation, and the things they do in the name of their nostalgia are framed as mistakes. The Dream World is just a more advanced projection, rather than a true simulation. It tries to be a full replacement for reality, and so it fails to be anything more than a lie. I like to remember how we learn the solution to the Giant's Deep puzzle in the base game. Spire built a model to demonstrate how Giant's Deep worked. That model is a kind of simulation, but a true simulation: a scale model, like the one they use to model the bay in San Fransisco (www.spn.usace.army.mil/Missions/Recreation/Bay-Model-Visitor-Center/ ). That's the kind of simulation Outer Wilds is and loves, the kind that exists to learn or teach about reality.
The ending of the DLC changes depending on how much you know in the base game. Meaning you can beat it at anypoint without being spoiled of stuff from the main game. Example: Once you figure out the comet is what killed everyone after exploding ghost matter everywhere the projection you show the owl man will then show the Nomai people dying from the comet. Every litle scene is dependent on your characters knowledge of their solar system.
One thing I wish they'd done different is lead us back to the some of the other planets for small lore parts. Obviously those parts would be hidden and only solvable with things from the stranger.
I love the trinity-like role of the hearthians, the nomai and the owelks. The nomai completed the story of the owelks, and we completed the story of the nomai. Brilliant storytelling, this dlc is a 11/10 for me
I thought the DLC was pretty nice. I do think i prefered the main game a little more, but this was nice too. Don't have any complaints really. The only small nitpick I have is, I think it is a little odd not a single Nomai ever accidentally found the Stranger. Sure you aren't supposed to think about it so that is why it is just a small thing.
I explained that in the video. They literally didnt have the capability. If a probe enters the space it loses connection to the outside. And the nomai didnt have the spaceflight capability to get out of the solar systems plane. To find the stranger you had to move 45 degrees off the plane and then line up with the stranger. Its touching to me they went through all the trouble to actually make that have sense. I was super worried about it.
The Nomai also never found their lost comrades and interstellar ship in the Bramble Dark. It's not far-fetched that they never detected a space station that was literally designed to be undetectable.
@@royalblue5367 It was less about detecting and more blind luck of stumbling into it. But Lore explorers explanation makes sense, it was just a wee thought that i myself couldn't answer so i am glad people can :)
That’s a really cool detail about the screen in the Stranger. I was a bit bothered that we could see the other planets from the stranger, because that means their light was blocked by the ship yet they remained visible through the ship simultaneously. The screen circumvents that problem of physics brilliantly
My experience with outer wilds and the dlc was a bit backwards as I’d watched a livestream of somebody else playing through outer wilds and exploring and learning and all that fun stuff. I thought it was a really cool game, but because I had that filter of watching somebody else play it I never connected with the game as one does when playing organically. I decided to buy the complete version of the game when it was on sale on PSN and after trying to find the dlc, I couldn’t get it and got annoyed and gave up. Fast forward a couple months I decided to give it another shot and after exploring the radio tower and going to the space probe, I finally started to feel that creeping sense of anticipation, discovery and connection I’d missed with the base game. Once I made it into the stranger and looked up I had goosebumps and the rest is an experience I will truly never forget. Playing through the dlc gave me that connection, that feeling of being a part of this wacky universe and the discoveries it was hiding. Upon completing the dlc entirely, having unlocked the prison and found the answers I seeked, I was overcome with a feeling of peace and joy, but also a bit of hollowness at knowing I robbed myself of that feeling for the entire game. Regardless of that, outer wilds will remain a very special game to me and definitely one of my personal favorite games of all time
I know the idea isnt for everyone. But check out my video "How to experience outer wilds for the first time(again)". May help in this regard. Truly , I think the game is best experienced a second time. Playing the first time , we know nothing about our character and the universe. Save we are astronauts and maybe know how to use a few tools. But after we complete it. We now know the universe. We know the pc a lot better. We know the characters in the universe. And so its easier and more meaningful once we can get into the mindspace of the hatchling imo. It allows us to experience and see things for how important and meaningful they truly are. And allows us to , say , go talk to gabbro after finding something out about the timeloop. Or Chert with the Nomain observations and whatnot. This trick helped me experience the game with fresh eyes. 3 years after initial completion of the game. I hope it can help you too.
I was in the same building when the dam broke in my playthrough. After a few seconds I was like "what was that noise?". I went out to check just in time to see the wave rushing at me before it hit.
I love the eerie music that the prisoner plays at the end, also I wonder what he says when you deny him, and how the ending looks without their “stain on your mind”
I really love the parallels between Solanum and the Prisonner. They maybe both were children birth in this solar system, with another way of thinking about the Eye Solanum was asking if the eye was bad when she was a child and when she eventually joined the Quantic Moon, she sayd that all the things we don't understand are not necessary bad, she's ready. And we can think that the prisonner thinks that way too because he tried to free the signal of the eye. And I also really love the fact that the game shows us differents behaviors faced to the end of the universe.
I loved the DLC. My only real gripe, aside from the rightfully criticised structure of the stealth sections, is the Prisoner's speech in the end, where he reduces his society's problems entirely onto "fear", when their weaknesses actually ran quite a bit deeper. The main game is as much about spirituality as it is about knowledge - the Nomai don't just practice science, they downright venerate it religiously, yet their tradition of always asking questions and being considerate and unprejudiced keeps them grounded. The Strangers on the other hand are clearly the opposite; they are presented as naïve, eager to make assumptions and jump to conclusions, and then project (no pun intended) their failures onto others (which makes their love for strategic board games all the more ironic, as you'd expect them to know a thing or two about thinking before you act :-D ); ultimately their fears were just the sad consequence of their own presumptuousness and zeal. Maybe the devs just wanted to avoid the tired ol' "science vs religion" trope, but you don't really achieve that by just curtailing the moral of the story.
This game taught me that darkness is the most frightening thing in the world… until it becomes a nuisance. It was great to see that the main gameplay ideas from Outer Wilds can be transported into a shorter, less expansive experience. The pursuit of knowledge, being wow'ed by your discoveries at every turn of the game and interesting secrets that were right under your nose the whole time. I would happily play games in this style exclusively for the rest of my life if I had to. That being said I got extremely frustrated with the Owlelk, especially the final room in Starlit Cove and I spent way too much time figuring out what to do in the house in with the fireplace, before I realized I had to come back when they're dead. Maybe it was my own fault, maybe I got a bit unlucky, but getting caught over and over in pitch black darkness without any idea what to do about it, made me almost want to throw my controller a few times. Being annoyed (even if only at times) was not a feeling I wanted out of a Outer Wilds DLC. Edit: I also read that they made some changes and added improved audio prompts the Owlelk make in a recent patch. It would be cool to see all the smaller and bigger changes they made to the game over the years. Maybe an idea for a video, if you have tons of footage from over the years :)
Geez. I do have tons and tons of footage from over the past couple years. Over a terabyte worth. The thing is I didnt store them by dates or game version. Itd be a lot of work looking through it all lol. I got frustrated ramming my head against the owlks as well. But thats almost always how outer wilds is. You find something. Bang your head against it. Realize you need to go elsewhere to solve it. All in all I still enjoyed my experience.
@@TheLoreExplorer Yea, I guessed it would probably be too much work lol. I recently saw the original design of the black hole forge for the first time and was very surprised how different it looked.. Definitely enjoyed the DLC. Just experiencing the Stranger and the feeling you got when you see that dam break for the first time was basically worth the price of admission, I would say. I just hope other developers will incorporate some of Outer Wilds ideas for progression in the future. "Outer-Wilds-like" deserves to become its own sub-genre of Metroidvanias. So far it has not really caught on. Do you know of any other games with knowledge-based progression?
Nononono don't you dare call that projector conversations story *cringe*! That's the BEST catharsis I could hope for; for the first time, after learning SO MUCH the Hatchling is finally able to answer someone else's question with a story That's THE moment of this DLC. THE DEFINING moment. I hope more games capture emotions like that
Don't worry, most game reviews don't know what they're doing anyways. As someone who's dedicated so much time into this fantastic game, I'd say you're the most qualified person to review it.
I was playing the game while watching your video and when I got to the credits of the Eye ending, you were speaking while the epic music was playing in the background. I really got impressed of the timing lol
I was so overwhelmed by everything coming at me, falling into the river, looking up, the sense of wander was palpable. Yet, despite being overwhelmed, I couldn't stop playing it. I was so utterly enthralled by how organically this game fits both intense moments of gameplay and jaw dropping revelations/events (that are actually really scientifically plausible) make you question everything you've seen up until that point in time, with slower exploration based lore digging bits that employs the old "show, don't tell" adage. I truly adore this game and I believe people should play it. It's a hundred times more fascinating and consistently well presented than any other sci-fi I've seen in recent years. It's truly a work of art. The game as a whole is a masterpiece. I mean, campfires, marshmallows, rafting, supernovas, quantum singularities and giant killer anglerfish, what more could you ask for?
The game is a commentary on video games in general. We are Strangers who fear failure and death in the real world so we satiate our desire to live and our fear of death by acting out life on virtual stages (video games, social media, etc.). The game is literally telling us to go outside and make friends with strangers instead of in our living rooms and basements in front of a fabricated false world.
Exactly, which only made the horror that the Strangers embodied even more terrifying. They are reflections of something very real...apathy and fear in the face of a dieing world. A desire to live in the past than to preserve the present we have now. They let their world (the real one) slip into total collapse because they were too busy getting that nostalgia fix. Like, did you see the dude in the other world watching a video...of the real other world...in it.
The shattered land in the end credit scene is there just from doing the DLC, even if you say no to the Prisoner. It’s only the village and other species that are tied to your response to the Stranger
@@TheLoreExplorer I think it only appears from playing the DLC as interacting with the Stranger would have affected the Hatchling's memories when he entered the Eye and the choice only affected remembering the Strangers as a species.
the lore of the DLC is perfect, the strangers is full of amazing idea, but some points in the game design make that it didn't reach the expectation I had. (still a great game, I just had huge expectation!) My main complain is that even after finish the DLC, I still can't figure out what was the intended way to pass through the second and third virtual world, as it fell very dull the just try to dodge the owls to finally reach the information you would have need to pass them the "intelligent" way. I really felt like if I had to outrun de angelfish "Feldspar style" and only discovering once deep in Dark Bramble that you can just pass quietly. Or like if you had to land on solar station to know about the way to teleport there. Or the fact that there is two type or tornado once in the centre of Giant's Deep... i've heard it's suppose to make you live things differently, but it's still dull to me. a less important complain is that i feel like 50% of the things in the stranger had to be done before the dam break, while 40% is available all the time and only a few things have to be done after (actually except to go though the first virtual world, I can't even think of something you have to do after the breaking, i've visited the house surround by ghost matter while in water at first, but you could totally do with the camera).
Its funny watching this entire video after watching you play through it and your emotional reaction to the ending. I don't have enough words to express how blown away I was from the base game and the DLC. Outer Wilds is the best game I have played all year and the DLC only enhanced that experience. I wish we could have more from Mobius in the next couple of years but I doubt they can create another world that seemingly fits with everything in a similar way to The Stranger AND completely exceed our expectations.
I wouldnt put it past mobius to release something in the next few years! They are a small studio with a bunch of creativity, skill, and a need for income!
@@TheLoreExplorer just that the figure we see with the lantern appeared to be creepy looking like the Owlelks were, as well as appearing from the dark as if it was stalking the bug creatures.
@@anfwrax3596 I guess there is no real way to know. But isnt that falling victim to the test they are presenting us? Why be afraid of the unknown? To me it seems like the creature with the lantern is coming to show the creatures relying on fire a cool new source of light! But as you said. Who knows lol
@@TheLoreExplorer I suppose it could work either way! I know I'd be happy if it was a friendly race instead of a threatening one haha. I saw it as we took a risk by allowing the Prisoner to play with us during the final song, and that the fear that his race knew in their final years was able to make its way into the new universe. If that is the case I'm sure our bug friends would be able to overcome and hopefully teach them to not be so fearful though.
Heres my take on it. The prisoners species was the one that held the fear but the prisoner didnt bring that along with them. The prisoner was the one that effected the ending since he was the one "actually there". He tells us he is willing to join us if we are willing to let them. And they tell us "Whatever happens next. I dont think it is to be feared.". If anything, I think the new taller species might live in fear a bit. Maybe thats why they decided to live underground. But now with the prisoners influence they are brave enough to try learn something new(like meet a new bug species they see is now living above ground) again! Hopefully I can figure out a way to prove it or at least find a point that is something convincing. But either way its nice hearing other peoples perspective! Thanks for sharing!
I just finished streaming the dlc, chat loved the original and this one too. Thanks to finding your UA-cam by happenstance I decided to go on this journey of a game and had a blast!
Hi everyone, I just realised how the owlks aestetics has been inspired by native American cultures from "Cascadia" (from Northern California to Southern Alaska). Just look for tsimshian art, architecture or clothing, it jumped out at me. I find it also really similar to Tlingit or Heiltsuk cultures as welll for instance
i feel like this was the best possible way to make a dlc, it didnt add questions, and it wasnt just a thing with the "added in last minute" feel, the fact that the story made so much damn sense and how the stranger's position made even more sense despite the story making already enough sense that you cant have any more sense than that- my brain is broken basically
Oooo what if this dlc explains why the eye is stationary? The device being used to stop the eye’s signal from being heard could be the one “observing” the eye, which would explain why the eye has SET coordinates that allow the vessel to travel there.
These devs are so good at conveyance, guiding the character through visual and mechanical cues. I could tell the game design was phenomenal when walking up the path to get my launch codes and the waterfall destroyed my ear drums. Let’s you lower your audio before your eardrums burst when you crash or fall to your death
My first go into the stranger, the damn broke the second I picked up one of the artifacts in the little workshop hut surrounded by ghost matter. I thought I triggered some kinda trap as I looked around wildly and was then flung against the wall by a torrent of water. Was hilarious, I just wish I had been recording at the time, my reaction was priceless! XD
8:10 this part terrified me, I spent half an hour trying to figure out how to light the lantern, I tried to hit the roast a mushroom button but accidentally hit the sleep button which I quickly woke up from, only to find all the mummified bodies gone, it was terrifying
This video gives me the chills! A little background: I played the game right when it got released in 2019 and played it only once, together with a friend. We explored everything and got to the very end, we loved it a lot, we were waiting for it since the first old alpha. After finishing it we never played it again. Then by myself I watched almost all your Outer Wilds videos to fill the gaps in my questions. In the meantime I forgot a lot about Outer Wilds, so right now I don't know what to do: restarting from scratch and explore everything again, or begin the DLC? I didn't quite understand how someone gets to the DLC part
Hmm. I’d say you have a few options. I’d play through the main game before I play the dlc if I forget some stuff. But the good news is I’ve condensed the whole story to about 2 hours or less in my outer wilds explained videos. So you can refresh yourself if you don’t have the time to play through it again. As for the dlc you do have to buy it first. Then visit the museum for the new exhibit!
@@TheLoreExplorer somehow I didn't get a notification about your reply, but thank you for replying! So walking in the museum will "activate" the DLC, or the Stranger is in the solar system anyways? If yes, it happens at any time? You suggested getting into the DLC after exploring everything in the solar system so I think I should do that
Well, it is there the whole time. It always has been(lore wise)! But chances that youll just find it randomly are pretty low! The exhibit at the museum will lead you to your first real clue to find it! But itll be less impactful if you havent filled out your ships log to a certain extent. So I suggest doing that first.
Cool detail I found if you have the travelers around the campfire at the eye and their playing the music if you take out your signal scope you can identify the prisoner and soleam as a signal! I don't know if you already know this but hey it's a cool detail
I did not know that. Thats super cool! And interesting because we do get "new signal nearby" when we run into ourselves. But it doesnt show up for them. You have to just try! Thats cool. Thanks for letting me know!
I dont really do tutorial videos on story parts of the game. Discovery is the whole point. If i show you where everything is then Im taking that from you.
i deleted my completed save file so i could complete the speedrun achievement, now i wish i had played the DLC with a completed save file. telling the prisoner everything i knew about the nomai would have been much more satisfying than the ending i got, and if you do the true ending with the prisoner but without solanum you don't get to see any of the sentient species inhabit the new universe :(
That definitely sucks. And although we dont get to see the new species if solanum isnt there. We do see a building or some weird structure in the corner suggesting they are there!
Can you spin some theories about The Stranger itself? How did the ghost matter get on board, and why is it only in two places? Did it get in through the breach that was caused by the prototype artifact explosion? That would kind of explain the ghost matter nearby the breach on the way to the scroll burner temple, but what about the ghost matter on the exact opposite side of the ring, in the lowlands? Why only those two places? And what about the solar sail's opening causes the dam to break? Is it really just disturbed by the rumbling that comes with the power flickering?
I'm really late to the party, but I just released my own video giving my critique of the DLC. I'm happy to see how this game has affected other players, it's truly masterpiece, even if I am a little harsh on the DLC.
I was just wondering if the strangers blocking the eye of the universe's signal was the reason the Nomai couldn't travel there. The Nomai got the signal when the prisoner turned the blocker off for a short time but when they tried travelling there it was already back on which meant they crashed into dark bramble. Creating the orbital cannon meant their probe could travel faster or try to penetrate the blocker in different ways maybe?
I dont think so. Personally I think the signal they received bounced through bramble and they followed the duplicate. But the probe did have to get within visible range of the eye. So I imagine it got within the blockers range to hear the signal.
Some spoiler here aswell I always had the curiosity to see what's inside the sarcophagus underwater (but the real one, not the one in the dream world). I guess there's no way to open that thing in the game without cheating or clipping, I though that by unlocking it from the dream world, the real one will also be unlock, but nope. After finishing the game you know that it has to be the body of the Prissoner, so after talking to him and making sure he is free, I managed to clip the probe in the sarcophagus just a bit, and indeed he is inside, looks like is the same body you encounter when you have to collect his instrument. But I find interesting that his flame is still burning despite that he finally ends his life after talking to him (I think... that part is a bit subjetive)
if you choose the first option to say well see what happens (which i chose thinking oh yeah unexpexted stuff is going to happen but thats life) you just see the other race and the bug people dont appear
One thing I didn't like about this new story is that there are basically no characters except for the Prisoner. The rest of the owls are seemingly presented as this completely homogenous people without any distinctiontive features to any of them at all: no significant physical differences, no apparent personalities, no personal stories, nothing save for slightly different antlers and jewelry on some.
Despite that, all of them are technically unique and each owl in the dream world even has a name in the code. I've tagged you on reddit, you can look at the list there
I see why people think this. But Im not sure its true. They could have all had names and stories and personalities. They could have even had mayors and what not. But firstly outer wilds doesnt seem to like to share unimportant information unless its required for the story. And there was no real way for them to present these to us other than name tags on cloaks in the reels or something. They had hotels and churches and stages to perform. We just arent shown these things.
The reveal when you first drop down into the stranger was so breathtaking for me. my jaw was on the floor
Also almost shat myself when the dam broke
Same
Same
same (3)
I literally said out loud "oh my god they fucking did it. this is gonna kick ass."
I just realized as I was watching this that the strangers had their own simulation, but we had one too. We could have chosen to stay in the time loop forever, just as the strangers stayed in their simulation forever. But because we and the prisoner are brave enough to accept death and see what's next, we see realty for what it really is. I think we all had that moment where we were staring at the warp core, contemplating if removing it is a good idea.
I love this parallel! This explains exactly why meeting the Prisoner is such an emotional point of the game, and why their final message was so important - they know exactly what it is that we are going through.
You say that like I didn’t immediately take out the warp core before fully understanding the implications until AFTER I died by supernova and got a game over.
@@JShortsFR When I realized that I had to take out the warp core, I didn't know if I had the strength to do it. But I did, I tried to go as fast as possible, and I made it to the last tunnel of Dark Bramble, forgetting about the 4th anglerfish right before the spacecraft. It swallowed me and I just about cried because for some reason I thought taking the warp core would delete my save.
Wow I didnt even realize how similar we were to the prisoner
@@JShortsFR same lmao, but it was more like I took it out, thinking I had to bring it to the Naomi on the quantum moon, then wondering why I wasn’t getting looped back after the sky went dark.
when you show the prisoner that their sacrifice kickstarted thousands of years of scientific discovery that gave your life meaning all the way up to the end of the universe and all they can do is throw their head back and howl...... im gonna go cry for 14.3 billion years
My absolute favorite thing about Echoes is how its theme and mechanics are diametrically opposed (but in balance with) the original Nomai story.
HEAVY SPOILERS TO FOLLOW (PLEASE AVOID IF YOU HAVEN'T COMPLETED ECHOES):
With the Nomai story, it's about curiosity, exploration, and the desire for understanding (for both the Nomai and the Hearthians). We piece together clues, read ancient correspondence, and solve a mystery spread throughout a solar system - a very large sandbox!
With the Echoes story, we explore, but with a much narrower scope. There's this new emotional layer of *fear* and uncertainty, as we flip back and forth between sympathy and horror toward these creatures...trying to piece the story together through our interpretations of images, not text.
And the mechanics. Match. The theme. We learn that fear truly doomed the Strangers' inhabitants. And what does it do for us? Our own fear prevents us from learning the game mechanics that are within our grasp the entire time. Fear tells us "Death is final. Stay away from that burning fire!" It tells us "Your light source is your lifeline. Keep it close by your side." It makes us believe that if we feel threatened, it's for a good reason - so we don't shine our light *back* at what's hunting us and take initiative. We instead cower in the dark.
In order to make any progress in Echoes, you have to learn to do something that challenges your instinct to run from death, stay away from the dark, and to freeze-up in terror.
In the Nomai story, the challenges are logical and mental. In the Echoes story, the challenges are interpretive and emotional. They're two complementary approaches to get at what it means to truly be an explorer. You have to build an understanding of the outside world, *as well as* your inner self. Total brilliance from Mobius.
People have likened to the darker aspects of Echoes to a "horror game". I think the crux of Echoes is actually in determining *whether that's true or not*.
I love this comment so much because it mirrors what I found so fascinating about the base game. The way they combined Physics, Astronomy and Quantum Physics is unlike any game I have ever experienced. We should not be able to see a large celestial body like the Quantum Moon disappear and reappear where it wants to! It was jarring until you learn that its part of the game and then the magic of Outer Wilds really starts to set in.
@@NateAlyn Totally! And that mechanic is presented as a scientific principle that you then have to learn to apply later. Quantum states are demonstrated early on, in the museum - and later, you're explicitly tested in the tower (of "Knowledge", no less). You have to learn what the Nomai have learned.
But in Echoes, those discoveries you make aren't based on scientific principles - we've moved from space exploration...to a form of exploration that is immediate and based on your own personal experience of the world. Ahhhh it's amazing
So well-worded and eloquently put. Thanks for summarizing my thoughts for me! Ha!
Really well put, great interpretation. Very insightful
The reveal when you drop down with the music swelling up was one of the best reveals of a location since BioShock
I loved the DLC as well. Only thing I'd change is add more objects with light behind them on the dark areas.
One of the coolest things the dlc does is making you see with shadows - like the last owl on the well room, on Starlit Cove. You do not see the last owl, instead you see it's shadow on the back light.
Adding more objects with silhouettes in the dark would allow the player to keep their bearings using reference points while still in total dark rooms, and would feed into the DLC's theme of lack of sight.
I think ability to see just 10 cm front of you would make dark areas much easier.
@@jeb123 and less annoying
That's the only criticism I have for the DLC. The stumbling around in the dark felt a bit tedious at times and it felt like there was too much of it. Other than that though it's a great addition to the base game.
@@HarryDuBois616 While I do agree completely with you, something that makes me feel better about the dark sections is the fact that [SPOILERS AHEAD] they allow you to completely skip them.
1) The Swamp being starting shortcut + waiting for the dam;
2) The Cove with just committing suicide on the tomb's fireplace;
3) The Gorge with the secret bridge making the path literally the easiest of them all.
An argument could be made about 2 and 3 needing knowledge from their respective archives, but in that case the following is also possible:
2b) Turning the lights off, resetting the dream and dropping off the starting stones directly next to the well (can't skip last section but it's just walking forward and avoiding that one elk)
3b) Turning the bridge visible during the lit Gorge, then using it to down the elevator, turning off the lights then using the elevator from another tomb (Tower, specifically)
2b has the issue of using incorrect fall damage, which is kind of unintuitive. So Cove is the worst of the bunch, I feel.
3b takes some planning, but it's how I did it when playing. The Gorge just has too many elks, I feel. More than it should.
ANOTHER argument could be made that all 1, 2 and 3 can be thought out (1 is intended, 2 is realizing the bell can't wake up a dead person which makes perfect sense and 3 is good routing), but it still shouldn't be relied upon.
I feel like this will vary between players. I ran my head against the dream word twice. Then realized all the info I needed was basically in the real world. After I learned all there was in the real world the solutions are essentially given to you.
I think the only thing I found mildly disappointing is that we never needed the signalscope inside the Stranger and the Scout felt a bit underused. Like I know they wanted to use all the new cool mechanics, but it weirdly stuck out to me how rarely we used base game mechanics.
The red herring with the translator though was top notch 👌
The scout itself wasn't used about as much as the base game I felt, both checking dam integrity like Brittle Hollow and shooting through tight spaces like Ember Twin, but the lack of any dimensional shenanigans meant it lost some of it's more unique functionality like in Dark Bramble. The flashlight was definitely used a lot more, obviously. Definitely agree about the signalscope, it would have been interesting if each entry point for the simulation had some kind of signal.
oh god yes, this. I kept pulling out the scope so many times just hoping to catch at least something. like some weird radio static or chatter or maybe a hint of anything quantum. i feel like its a bit of a missed opportunity
How was the scout unuderused? You need the scout to see one of the codes, you need the scout to check the dam integrity, you need photo mode to navigate two ghost matter patches, the scout can also report hazards like the white water rapids, electric cables, and the fires... it gets a ton of use as far as I can see. It makes sense form a lore perspective that there would be no signals for the signalscope since the Stranger was trying to stay cloaked and hidden.
My biggest disappointment was how underused the flaws in the simulation were, despite how cool and well thought out they were. I also feel the same way about the quantum rules in the base game, with the stranger itself being kind of like a second quantum moon in a weird way. As for the signal scope, it wasn't completely useless, as the shape of the stranger made it so you could use it as a telescope to look at other areas from a distance (which is how I found out about the hidden gorge), which was a feature never really practical in the base game. Still, could have used that and the scout a bit more.
Also, I'd just like to point out, you can tell Hal about the new language and ask him to translate it, and while they get excited about doing so, they tell you that it'll take about six weeks and they'll need a bunch of samples, which I find to be very outer wilds.
@@smorggs7860 Each simulation flaw lets you completely bypass the area you learn them in, that seems pretty useful to me.
This is just a detail that may be up to interpretation but I wanted to point it out. The Pursuers (what I refer to the inhabitants by) saw what the eye would do. If you really pay attention, it showed the universe dying after one interacted with the eye. But it also showed that from their dead body, new life began to grow around them. It is possible that the Pursuers knew that it was showing them the universe was dying and that interacting with it would allow a new universe to grow in its place instead of what I think most people think of it just showing them the universe dying. With that in mind their reaction becomes different with how you interpret it. If you just see the eye showing them the universe dying, then their reaction is out of a desperate attempt to trap themselves in an illusion so that they don't have to see the oncoming death of the universe. If you interpret it as them realizing that from this universe's death, a new one would be born, then their actions become much more selfish. They intentionally censored their own history to only show people the bad parts of the eye. They blocked the eye's signal so no one would restart the universe and they wouldn't be destroyed. They were willing to let every other world die and not let new ones come into being. It may not be the correct interpretation but it definitely is something interesting.
Did it even show them that the universe was dying though? Perhaps they thought the universe would go on forever and the eye was just a sort of "Genesis device" that would kill everything and refresh it, not revive a dying universe. In that context, their actions sort of make sense. Except for the one where they retreat into the dream world, that's just a weird action either way.
The Stranger - the Pursuers'/Followers' perfect little Supernova Bunker that was also programmed to move AWAY from the Supernova. So long as it wasn't destroyed, the inhabitants of the Stranger could live forever near the fake fire of a simulation of their home, in theory forever dooming everyone else to save themselves from what they saw as annihilation and to make sure their species' story never ended.
the eye showed them everything it had to show them, otherwise the prisoner wouldn't have done what they did. i think the question is more just whether or not the strangers fully understood the consequences of their actions or if they were just so horrified by the idea of the current universe's annihilation that everything after that seemed completely unimportant in comparison
@@Ayelis retreating into a simulated reality of the homeworld they destroyed in pursuit of something that didn't deliver whatever they expected it to is probably the most understandable thing they did imo
It definitely showed them the rebirth, but their reaction would vary wildly if they didn't know the universe was already dying. Sacrificing all life for a potential future is a much heavier proposition when your solar system isn't 20 minutes from death.
I think the moment in the DLC that hit the hardest for me was when I looked at one of the slides in the dream world and find out what the Strangers had to do to construct their ship to travel to the Eye. The same slide in the normal world specifically has that portion burnt out, so it didn't even occur to me why they couldn't just cut their losses and go back home.
My most impactful moment was the construction of the eye signal blocker. That ignorance, that impulsivity, angered and hit me to my core.
@@rachellewis6641 I have a hard time understanding why they hid the eye tbh. Why not just run away from it?
@@Ri-ver someone else might find it and activate it, like say the nomai
How many loops ended with the Nomai probe crashing through the stranger and noone knew about it because they didn't bother to log errors, only the final coordinates?
Imagine if they added an entry in the sunken module that could serve as another hint to hook you into the DLC story if you purchased it! "Loop number 20569, connection with the probe has been lost for a few seconds, after which its trajectory has been altered. No object could be detected at the estimated location of the anomaly. Displaying coordinates..."
Though I guess the only way to use the Nomai coordinates is with the Vessel's systems, and warping the already broken vessel straight into the stranger's original position in the supernova's range after turning off the ATP is not a thing you want to accidentally do...
Nice thinking, hadn't even crossed my mind! But of course it must've happened! That would be really interesting if a Nomai computer in the probe tracking module mentioned contact with the stranger.
That's a cool idea, but wouldn't it also collide with all the other planets too?
@@Greenpixel16 It can, but if the Nomai were smart they'd take the locations of the known planets & sun into account when calculating the probe's trajectory in the first place. The stranger was unknown to them so that's a different story.
@@Jaynat_SF That also means that there's a loop of the game where the probe fires and hits the stranger. There've already been loops where the probe just orbital strikes the player as they get to their ship.
9:25 I disagree with your opinion about owlelk slider reel being more personal than Nomai white boards. I think text is less ambiguous than images. When I was playing I feel I understand the Nomai's much better than the owlelks. As such, I feel much, much more connected to Solanum than to the Prisoner.
I agree that we understand the nomai a lot better. I also feel more connected to Solanum as well. But imo I think thats because we spent A LOT more time with the nomai and their story. We had hours and hours of following their footsteps and feeling what they were feeling as they did the same things we do. We find a bunch of environmental stories as well. But with the strangers we only get about 5-10 minutes of movies.
Ironically, the "Owlks" story felt a lot more literal to me than the Nomai story.
Yeah I loved realizing that one of the main nomai scientists was previously a kid scrawling on the walls.
It took a few attempts to figure out why the DLC felt like such a chore. No text and light based puzzles meant playing in the dark and narrative quiet. The owls speak in flip book, and this was cute at first but communicates so weakly that I grew to dislike it quickly.
Add to that they drop you into the matrix where you're really playing in the dark with no communication, and now your beloved equipment is gone, I kept finding excuses to explore the main game again.
Because the owls have a written language but feel compelled to use power point, and because they are revisionists who hid everything interesting, the DLC felt very much like a job.
The minute the raft dropped, the DLC was over for me.
That is the problem with images - they can tell you WHAT happened, but not WHY has it happened.
I didn’t even realize a trailer was dropped for the dlc, I found out that the dlc was out a day after release day on a whim so I truly went in blind. In my head I was expecting perhaps another planet or celestial body drifting into the solar system to explore and not much else. The surprise I had when I first dropped into the stranger and looked up was truly magical
Same. I had no idea about the dlc, but was lucky enough to see it on steam the day it came out. Had no idea what to expect but was far from disappointed. Fastest I've ever bought a dlc. Ever.
I intentionally avoided learning *anything* about the DLC before it came out.
I'm so glad I did, because it was one of the purest gaming experiences I've ever had.
I think Echoes is just as good as the base game, which is just about the highest praise I can possibly give anything. It's very different in terms of gameplay and story, but does a really great job further exploring the main game's themes, but from a totally different perspective.
The story has so many devastating emotional gut punches throughout, and they're communicated to the player without a single word of text or dialogue. An extremely impressive feat, considering that the main game's story is communicated to the player almost *entirely* through text. The ending was absolutely brilliant too, tying perfectly back into the main game's story while also standing on its own as a fantastically powerful emotional payoff for what the player had to go through to get there.
The gameplay was fantastic too, completely ditching the quantum puzzles from the main game and going in a totally new direction. The techniques needed to beat the game were ingenious too. They're so easy to do, yet none but the most experimental would think to do them until the game teaches you about them. The uh... *intense*... sections were simple in design, but very effective (i.e. terrifying) due to the fantastic sound design and lighting. Andrew Prahlow and the entire sound design team did an outstanding job here. Same goes for the environment artists, and the gameplay designers, I mean holy crap really just the entire dev team deserves as much praise as I can possibly give them. They knocked it out of the park, again.
I thought Mobius caught lightning in a bottle with the original game, and that it was pretty unlikely they'd ever be able to make something that good again. Never been happier to be so wrong.
What do you think of the discussion around the frustrations caused by the horror segments? i do like the interpretation of pushing through fear to find the solution, but i think i agree more with the sentiment that the dark world was frustrating to navigate, and that the tools you need to make navigation easier and more fun are hidden at the *end* of said segments. i got turned around very easily trying to figure out where to go in the swampy area next to the music hall for example.
The movement was one of my favorite parts of the base game so I definitely agree that the simulation sections felt frustrating. It was like playing a Mario game where they take away your ability to jump.
I felt that the inconsistency of the AI in those sections was a bit annoying. Near the end, I felt I was learning nothing new and just wasting time fighting against the mechanics to move on.
I think they should've made alternative routes a bit more viable. I liked coming up with plans to avoid the owlks (like waiting for the bridge to snuff out their artifacts) but for the starlit cove, once their artifacts go out, you only have like 2 minutes to get down to the forbidden archives. I kinda wish it happened a bit earlier in the loop instead.
Yeah I quit it at the stealth segment, and now I'm just here to read what happens. Fuck that shit.
Wrapped up the story earlier today and finished off the achievements an hour ago. I really disliked the stealth segments mechanically but found it manageable after you get told about the lantern-trick. I liked the Reduced Frights option too but I really wish they didn't plaster it on the opening menu and create unnecessary paranoia.
I definitely preferred getting to know the Nomai through texts in the main game as opposed to the Owlks through reels, but what sealed the deal for me with this story-telling method was the amazing soundtrack accompanying the reels, and the use of segmenting the music into certain slides on the reel. Like when the faces on the Owlks become sinister in the reel where they realize the universe is dying, the music changes to give more life to the slide. The error report reels are by far the coolest tutorial/reveal method I've ever seen where the moment the "glitch/bug" in the simulation happens, the music changes to the eerie soundtracks 'Secret Ways' or an extended loop of the end of 'Test Chamber Three' from the OST. The music and it's implementation really makes the DLC rise to the occasion for me.
I also think it's very clever how they positioned the ship to let you in through the front the first time because you approach it from the satellite, so you can have that drop-down raft inside the hut the first time and get wowed floating down the river, but once you start traveling directly from Timber Hearth you enter the backside and can get yourself to relevant locations quicker.
"My Honest Opinions on Echoes of the Eye"
Brutally honest, I thought you'd start the video with a facecam and a heavy, apologetic sigh
Clickbait is a sin of the viewer.
Preconceived notions are the sin of the viewer. The title is accurate lol. I give my honest opinions on echoes and the things it includes. They just happen to be good.
This was posted on an earlier video, I'm bringing it up again: It looks like the Owlks had some sort of divided class society! There is a discrepancy in the number shown in some of the reels and the number contained within the simulation pits. As well, the ones shown burning down the temple to the eye are wearing the same jewelry as the ones in the pits, and don't forget that there is a temple to the burned reels - which means it was made after - not before, the Owlks went in the simulation! And, the second church to the eye was not burned down! There would be no reason for it to survive unless it was built afterwards! In the same area as the burned reels!
Fascinating theory, but where would their remains be?
@@aspectofhades That's the only question this theory doesn't answer. It answers why the church is around, why there aren't as many Owlks in the simulation, and why the burning reels exist with prominence. But it doesn't tell us what happens to the extra Owlks who didn't wear jewelry in the reels. Based on the ending, there should be some graves somewhere if graves were commonplace considering the Prisoner had one, or it could just be that the discrepancy is merely an error and the burning reel location was created by the Prisoner.
@@BarbaricCrafter1 Interesting. I just investigated a bit more based on this.
The inhabitants are clearly guarding their secrets - when you extinguish the lights in 2 out of 3 of the simulated they move to positions to protect their secrets. But before they burned the reels they put it in the scanning device, which I can only assume digitises them and why all the reels are present in the forbidden libraries *within* the simulation. So they wanted to keep the knowledge, but keep it only to those within the simulation - just like they hide they Eye itself, they hide any knowledge of how they blocked its signal.
There's an empty alcove in the tower, which I presume is the Prisoner's. why wouldn't someone else fill it if there were more owlks? You can also see that not all the owlks are wearing the jewelry in the adjacent alcoves, so I don't think they denote any special status - after all, getting to live eternally (even if just a simulation) surely is only for the special?
My understanding is that just like the Prisoner leaves the simulation, the others only leave it temporarily. They catch the Prisoner, seal them in the vault, digitise and then burn their reels, repurpose a temple of the Eye to be a "Temple of Resolve" (the burnt reels) and then re-enter the simulation with the intent of never leaving. There is no reason to build a new temple to the Eye, just to tear the symbol down. They are just doubling down on their existing plans.
@@fwopkins Oh! I hadn't conceived of the notion that the burning of the reels could be seen as a good thing by the Owlks! This of course makes a lot of sense, and explains the existence of the burned reels as a marked location, as a sort of absolution or evolution of the religion of the Eye of the Universe. And it definitely has historical precedent as well. Perhaps the second temple to the eye was left standing because it served a functional purpose, whereas the large temple near the tower town did not.
One thing I thought was cool: even though the owlks represent everything the game is opposed to (fear of the unknown, shutting out others, holding onto the past instead of building a new future), it still shows compassion to them. You're not able to blow out their lanterns or shut down the servers, respecting their choice. And we also respect their experiences and knowledge, so there're things worth learning and experiencing in their virtual world. You can pass judgment on their race of a sort by not letting the prisoner play along, but you get a better ending if you value what they bring as well. Great way of exploring more themes in an already amazing game.
It does give you a way to kill them though. Most of them are doomed, but 1/3 of the inhabitants survive the flood and even escape the supernova, unless you take the prototype artifact to the last fire. It's the easiest fire to get to from where you find the prototype, and you get an achievement for doing it. I can't prove that's intentional design, but it at least shows that Mobius weren't really considering that players might feel sentimental about the inhabitants. If you get that achievement, it might not even cross your mind that you are wiping out the remaining pursuers (aside from The Prisoner) by doing so. Hardly compassionate imo.
@@sportsracer48 Ha so there is a way to kill the fires from the "real" world interesting.
Wow, you sure do look really small on the raft. I didn't perceive the raft that big 😄
I loved the DLC. Sure there are things you'll miss, flying your ship and easy access to ship log, low gravity, etc., but the Stranger is so cool and unique it's fine putting those in the background.
The game design of your introduction to the ring world is so awesome too because you'll feel confused, scared, panic (when the raft falls) then immediately in awe and fascination with how the environment looks.
The Owlks were big - which is why their furniture and the gravity on the planet match that. The DLC makes you feel small, and powerless in the simulation area. You really feel like you're walking in the footsteps of giants.
@@BarbaricCrafter1 Yeah I know but I didn't feel that with the raft when I played 😄 But yeah it makes sense it's that big.
Another thing to add. I don’t think the strangers were inherently “mean” to us. Through the reels we see it can be assumed that although the Strangers are curious, they are absolutely fearful and skittish, especially after seeing what the Eye can do after destroying their home world to get to it. It makes sense that they would want to snuff out anything new in their simulation they built to try and feel normal again. Furthermore, when the strangers do catch you in their simulation, all they do is kick you out of it by blowing out your lantern, nothing more.
Just because they have a reason to do it doesnt make it any nicer. The instant we see any of them they get upset and chase us down to get rid of us. They dont even say hello or ask how our Tuesday was. Its rude lol.
Unless they catch you without a lantern, then they snap you like a fucking twig lmao
@@royalblue5367 its still just waking you up from the simulation and not hurting you at all
@@royalblue5367 I wonder what we look like to them without the lantern. Perhaps we just look like a glitch?
@@TheLoreExplorer The problem with that is when you jump in a river without a lantern, you can hear yourself drowning. This means you actually feel everything happening too you. Sure it doesn't actually kill you, but you still feel yourself getting snapped in half.
I think the Owlks overall are a very visual species, like there are the projectors and the projection of the dream world, but they also scan and beam information through light, like they did with the Eye and like the conversation with the Prisoner (as well as the other sources of light you can walk into to watch what appear to be memories). So maybe it's a metaphor, but mostly I think it's thematic.
What fascinates me about this though is that the Nomai were obviously a very textual species. Even the recordings we encounter are stored as text (or we wouldn't be able to understand them), and if anything it suggests their primary method of communication was through text even given other options. It's like the devs decided to do the exact opposite of everything they did with Outer Wilds for Echoes of the Eye, and I mean that across the board:
OW:
-Friendly but (almost) wholly absent aliens, most of their history is explained through text, few examples of images
-Multiple planets to explore, ship is a major feature
-Primarily traversing areas that are unfamiliar to both the player and the inhabitant of an Earthlike world
-Knowledge can be difficult to find but is freely shared; player is encouraged to seek out connections
-Player faces the primary antagonists from within their ship (ideally)
EotE:
-Decidedly unfriendly and very present (so to speak) aliens, most of their history is explained through images, few examples of writing
-One location, ship all but unnecessary (and I loved the observation that the raft is kind of a substitute, esp with its physics)
-Primarily traversing a very Earthlike world that would not be unfamiliar even to the player character
-Knowledge is intentionally obscured; player must fight against both the location and its former inhabitants to claim it
-Player faces the primary antagonists without so much as a suit
I could go on forever about the design of that last one, like. The whole fact that when you doze off, it works like normal, making you think "ah, it didn't work," and then the moment you woke up either the creepy coffin or the creep-ass corpses are GONE, and (if you're in one of the corpse locations) you immediately discover the lack of suit because you have to jump up on a ledge to get out? Marvelous. I was deeply horrified.
When i got to the end i didn't hesitate on letting him in on the new universe
Lemmino had an interesting question in his video about virtual reality (or another video that brought up the topic) about what happens if we make a perfect reality in the computer. Will we continue to keep exploring outwards, or just keep going inwards to further perfect this artificial reality? I think that’s what happened to the strangers. They saw the eye, were infatuated by it, and sacrificed so much to explore find out more about it. But when they saw the truth, they got scared and shut themselves away from the universe. They clung to the past, and wanted to find the best possible way for things to go back to the way they were. Back when things made sense. There’s a lot of things I want to talk about the dlc, but that was something that stood out to me while playing it.
I Never really tought about the Eye being sentient but after the dlc it started to fester on my mind.
The Eye, by what I understood, was seeking a being to commune with it and recreate the universe, because, alone, it couldn't.
The owlks destroyed their planet to answer the call of their God, in hopes of wonders only to be met with the prospect of the impending doom. Really well done. Such a nice game
Notice how the water isn't flowing, it's actually lagging behind the rings rotation!
"Not a video game journalist qualified to do a proper review" - If only more journalists WERE qualified, that's why we like your content =D
it started with THE eye, then the Prisoner with 2 let the signal back out, the the 3 eyed Nomai followed the short signal burst before dying out, and finally the 4 eyed Hearthian pieced it all together to allow a dying universe to reset. Echoes is a masterfully integrated DLC that perfectly adds on to an amazing game seamlessly
Just like the main game, the world hides its secrets by paralyzing you with fear. Since the solutions were even closer to under your nose in the dlc, they had to crank up the fear. Make sure the player is too scared to experiment. Despite being in a time loop we still can’t overcome our base instincts. Also can we all appreciate how disturbing those teleportation hands are?
That teleport effect is so cool with the dolly zoom and sound effect being off sync slightly
I can’t lie when I was watching the final animation of the sharing of stories I literally had goosebumps and so many memories flood back of when I first explored the universe a couple of years ago. Really beautiful
I got a flashback to meeting Solanum and I remembered how happy I felt not for me, not even for the Hatchling but just thinking about all his friends and family that had dreamed of meeting a Nomai. Even if it was at the end of the universe. It made me think trying and failing isn't so bad when someday all those attempts might amount to something beyond our wildest dreams.
There is a little detail I find really cool in the simulation (near the pit area). You can find the prisonner's destroyed house, with his telescope still pointing in the sky.
Also, in the Cinder Isles, you can find the prisoner's portrait completly scratched, in one of the houses (the one with the white painting on the front)
@@pilpoilanim How do you know that the scratched portrait is the prisoner's?
There is an empty alcove in the fire room of the tower. I think it's reasonable to assume that's their alcove.
@@fwopkins you can recognize him by the missing antler.
The prisoners is also visible in some of the slide reels.
I'm pretty sure The Stranger is moving away from the sun constantly as the loop progresses. You may have noticed it isn't destroyed and you aren't killed by the supernova. There's a room at the top of the dam that shows that it is moving away from the sun to escape the supernova. There's even a little timer that kinda shows how far along the loop is.
It’s stationary for about 5 minutes. Once the panels open on the side it starts accelerating slowly
After playing through the DLC, I believe my prediction that the Eye is omniscient stands corrected. There’s now a given reason is started and stopped transmitting, and it can be theorized that it began transmitting in the first place simply because that’s its job- To signal somebody to come and enter it in order to make a new universe once the current one is reaching its end.
I think it’s worth noting that the Strangers’ vision of the Eye destroying the universe may actually be true. After all, it’s hard to create a universe when one already exists in the space you need to use. I recall the best allegory I’ve seen being that the Eye is just the universe’s reset button. Heck, you see it happen when you first enter the Ancient Glade.
"For every pathway lit up, there was a brave traveler who traversed it while it was dark. Then set a candle so that others could see there's no reason to be scared" I know its not the most profound statement, but that's really powerful to me.
The thing for me is the themes of exploration I felt this DLC made that much stronger with this new race adding a 3rd theme of exploration to the species.
The Hearthians are folksy explorers; on primitive wooden craft, out there in dangerously unsuitable craft in a rush to explore the corners they can survive long enough to reach.
The Nomai are researchers; exploring the unknown with proper preparations and technology for the sake of knowledge and seeing what the universe and nature has hidden away.
The Outsiders are more religious, went on a mass exodus and sacrificed everything to seek out and find the symbol of their worship.
All three races are different themes on explorers that may travel great distances for one reason or another. Primitive colonial explorers, advanced field researchers, and worshipers on a pilgrimage to a holy site.
All the races and their core themes come back to exploration of a different style. I mean, I could be reaching, I haven't really shared my thoughts before, but I don't think I am stretching things here.
The Hearthians are on wooden craft that barely function, are easy to crash and destroy, and even in-game dialogue points out things like how you're riding in a spacecraft of wood nailed to alien technology that makes it barely work; they want to see space so badly they're hashing together poorly made wooden structures and catapulting themselves in their rush to explore. The Nomai, down to the children, are obsessed with their research and knowledge (even having ticks where they say "hypothesis:" in casual language), knowledge is everything to their species as the game presents them. The Outsiders are a little harder to place since we must interpret from what we see and not explicit dialogue, but between the paintings, candles, churches, and temple-like tower for them to enter the simulation.. I got a certain religious vibe from them. They may have forbidden it after they saw the eye up close, but they did not seek the eye for knowledge, they sought it like it was a deity or object of worship.
I loved the DLC, but it's the thing that really made this element of the game's setting stand out to me more. A whole new location with much to see in it... and it builds little on the main story, and is all about a new set of travelers that went to unknown parts for reasons different than the other two races.
Very well thought out and well put! Id say maybe less religion and more faith based. But there isnt much of a difference!
@@TheLoreExplorer A fair rebuttal. Without explicit language, it's mostly semantics or interpretation of what Mobius intended in regards to faith vs religion. I probably went towards religion because.. well.. it's easy, very very easy, to treat those two words as interchangeable, and referring to their reaction to the eye as "religion" is not unfair.
I viewed them as a much more emotionally based species as well. The Nomai were incredibly hardy and industrious, seemingly able to crash land on a planet and immediately pop up cities and get back to their goals of researching. Yet the two eyed aliens are definitely more traditional and emotionally based in their thinking, right from the second that i landed on The Stranger I immediately realized that it was probably designed to look like their home world. And the way that they destroyed their world, only to end up creating a facsimile world in their minds, was a tremendous tragedy
i was blown away by the DLC. Outer Wilds just has the greatest story telling and captivating narrative i've ever experienced in a video game, fueling my exploration.
the way they did the slide reels was incredible, i think. the initial reels being burnt out so they could give you clues and hints as to what is happening, to drive you further into the game and exploration, but not revealing the real heartbreak until viewing the full reels at the end.
every aspect of this DLC is genius. the integration, the design, the levels, the puzzles, everything!
if i had one criticism it would be that we could have done more or figured out more about their little spaceships in the hangers. i was super intrigued by those when i first came upon the stranger
Loved the DLC, would insta buy again! Appreciated the spoopyness too lol
The first time I entered The Stranger, I flew towards it at full speed, because I thought it's something like a black hole that I have to catch/enter quick lol. I was so hyped and shouted "Let's fucking gooooo!" just to get scared shitless when everything went black and I crashed into it lmao. I somehow survived it, barely alive, can't see shit... man. This game is a masterpiece
00:49 "Im not a videogame journalist qualified to do a proper review of the game..."
Dont worry, neither are videogame journalists.
I would love for the VR mod to become compatible with this dlc that would be so scary but yet so fun
you know the video is gonna be good when he says "hello everyone I am the lore explorer and this is outer wilds"
Having played through the dlc myself and beating it 2 days after release then watching your playthrough, lemme tell you. It was great watching you piece things together as You discovered them. I can't wait for my friend to play through the dlc, he's almost finished the basegame (he's still way too scared of DB to attempt the ending yet). But lemme tell you, the fact you called them "owlelks" kinda got to me. Lemme explain, Whatever you decide to call them is your choice, I called them "Dreamers" because I clocked as soon we get the first reel of them crying over pictures of home, that something happened to it. (Also they reminded me of the Dreamers from Hollow Knight so my brain just labelled them Dreamers) And that they couldn't go back be it they didnt have the lifespan or genetic diversity to make a return trip. So instead they researched a way to get "home," creating the Dream. Hell when I first entered the dream, the first thing out of my mouth was 'Dream a Little Dream of Home.'
Man the reality is so much worse...and they are still dreamers, just for all the wrong reasons.
You give off very wholesome and innocent vibes, friend. Love you and your content
Thank you so much 🤗
There is something which is quite amazing. When you share your story with the Prisonner. You can see pictures of the nomai mothership get caught in dark bramble or the ghost matter killing them. But if you haven't done the main story, you don't have those pictures so you share an incomplete story to the prisonner
There is just a ton of attention to detail in this game, every part is incredibly well done. What blew my mind is I launched a scout straight up in one direction, then in the opposite direction, and it actually properly accounts for the gravity you'd get in a ring world
Not quite. It's got spinward and antispinward coriolis effects (which is sweet), but I don't think it accounts for gravity scaling linearly with distance from the center. I'm pretty sure there should be a significant difference in perceived gravity between the top and bottom of the dam, but it's a constant 1.3 throughout the habitat. It's a shame, since I'm sure the devs could've made some really interesting puzzles with it.
a theme of the game is having a spark of wonder, adventure and exploration. and the only important part of life is the road you take and sharing it with your family and friends even if the universe will end and existence is pointless the journey to get their still mattered to you the conscious observer
1) The signal the eye sent sparked such a drive to explore and ride out into the unknown in the elk people that they decimated their own homeworld to do so. They were never planning on looking back, only going forward to the next adventure.
2) upon learning the truth of universes rebirth and the eye they fell into despair losing their spark of adventure and exploration choosing to wallow in the past and fearfull of what comes next after the end of the universe and the start of a new one without them
3) that spark and drive of wonder, adventure, and exploration that led the elk people to come to the hearthian system was still present in the prisoner. He released the eyes signal to spread that spark to the universe. even if the universe is destined to end eventually isnt the jouney to get their the important part
4) the player sees his younger self get that spark as he smiles at the museum exhibit of nomai text and symbol of the eye which leads us on our own adventure in the face of a nihilistic universe
5) riding into the sunset with a fatal wound is a classic western movie ending.
the prisoner also recognized the spark of adventure, wonder, and exploration in the player and is extending his hand to invite on a metaphorical journey together as kindred spirts. the classis line of "it was honor to know you, wish we had more time, we could of been good friends" as dieing last words from a new friend whom briefly shared a grand adventure together
"Another hidden world you can *get lost in for hours*!"
.... I don't want to admit how many hours I spent lost as shit in that world lol
this is why im subbed, such brilliant insightful commentary. My 2nd biggest mindblow moment (behind the hearthian slide reel) was when i realized that the strangers were the reason the eye stopped sending signals. When playing the base game, one of the biggest questions i had unanswered was why the eye stopped sending signals to the nomai, and during the DLC i was thinking how are the strangers going to tie into the main game? All of this was answered as soon as i saw the reel, which was very satisfying.
Its always nice when youre looking for a piece of a puzzle and find it somewhere youd never expect. Solving the whole thing. Outer Wilds is good a manufacturing those moments! Thank you so much for the kind words strange robotic apple!
And then there's the fact that the Nomai got stuck in Dark Bramble because it was repeating the signal
I think story-wise, the dlc definitely lives up to expectations. However, I definitely preferred the gameplay in the base game. First, I really liked flying the ship in the base game and was a bit disappointed that the game made the ship less useful in the dlc. Second, with the puzzle solving, the game definitely holds your hand a bit more. Like in the base game you would have to piece together clues from completely separate investigations, whereas most of the puzzles in the dlc consist of you finding a slide reel that essentially shows you the solution of how to progress. Though the base game might've been too cryptic with their puzzles, considering that I either needed to look up solutions or use unintended solutions to reach certain areas. The dlc probably was made easier in response with it but I feel they mightve gone too far because of how straight forward I felt everything was.
You found it easy? Damn.
I can only imagine they are referring to the reels. But even then I had a hard time interpreting most of the “solution” reels. Either way it did feel a little bad getting solutions shown to us. Especially after the base game. Imagine after tracking down feldspars signal on dark bramble and then they send you a message with directions on how to get past the anglers. That’s sort of what the reels are like. Idk.
beyond the story elements you discuss in this video, i think the DLC is mechanically even better than the base game. i think it has a lot of more interesting puzzles (such as learning the glitches in the simulation world or discovering hidden paths). the sections where you must avoid the owls in the simulation world are very fun and feel like an extension to dark bramble, wherein the idea of needing to survive against hostile lifeforms is explored further. the one problem with those sections, though, is how easy it is to manipulate the owls.
probably the scariest game ever would be one similar to the simulation but with more frightening (and smart) enemies and no glitch in the simulation that allows you to surveil the place easily
Also, it seems as if the anglerfish have become more alert since i last played the game. i was probably just out of practice while getting to the eye of the universe but the one in the first seed began chasing me even thoughi provoked less than what i would expect to be necessary
Honestly, the owl sections were nothing but frustrating, especially the third one, glad that it's possible to bypass it using the elevator. Trying to avoid enemies while not being able to see anything is not fun or challenging at all.
this game is trully amazing, the DLC is pure gold
I stopped about 10 minutes in when you mentioned that you weren't sure if there was a deeper meaning to the simulated world / projections, and I think I have some insight.
One theme that stands out in the simulated world is truth in simulation. In real (game) world, you solve puzzles by learning the laws of physics, studying history, and learning about the solar system. In the simulated world you start out by solving puzzles like a video game: calling moving platforms that move along tracks, turning bridges 'on' and 'off,' using magic field of view warping teleporters, and sneaking around enemies. Then, later on as you learn that those rules you've been learning to follow are fake, you break them, and ignore the puzzle solutions as they were programmed in.
This stands in contrast to the 'non'-simulated world of the base game, with it's deep commitment to truth in simulation. The Dream World is like a stage play in comparison to the solar system. In my first playthrough, I though I had to block the sand on the Ash Twin to get through the warp, and because of how the physics system is coded, that actually worked! As far as I know that's actually an intended solution. Eventually, when it's time to say goodbye to this world that you have learned and loved, you part tear with a smile and a song.
The dream world shows us what happens in a fake world with fake simulation: fake solutions. By the time you beat the DLC you are playing like damn speedrunner. It doesn't matter what entrance you go in from, so you pick the one that's easiest, and start by hopping directly into the fire. You ignore the puzzles and stealth mechanics, hop into the void and wrongwarp to the end of the game. Because you have entered a glitched state, certain mechanics fail to apply to you, and you look up the final code essentially by datamining, something that Mobius even referenced by including codes to datamine or brute force for all three bridges.
I think that the deeper meaning is clear: Mobius uses truth in simulation to speak to us about the *real* world. The game is a projection, and the game within the game is a projection within a projection. No one mourns the end of the Dream World. Indeed, 2/3 of it are doomed by the act of cowardice that saves the remaining inhabitants from the supernova, but the player is even given the option to wipe out the remaining Strangers, and given the opportunity to do so by accident, earning an achievement in the process. In this reading, the devs don't respect the Dream World, nor do they respect its inhabitants. In a way, its construction is the same mistake that The Prisoner hopes to not repeat in the next universe. A wretched nostalgia, a desperate desire to cling to what we already know, and even to simulate what was lost.
Ready Player One said it first, but reality is the only place you can get a good marshmallow.
So not to take away from the amazing write up. I truly appreciate you taking the time. But there are a few mistakes in the write up. In no circumstances were you meant to data mine the games code. Unless you somehow mean inside the dream world. But even then idk what you’re talking about. The first code we use the artifact glitch. The second code we use the falling beneath the world glitch. And for the third code we die. As for the intended solution for the atps warp. You simply stand under the roof and walk onto the pad as the sand pillar is halfway past. Clogging the hole is clever though! But tbh I don’t buy the whole “they put a simulation inside a simulation inside another simulation to teach us simulations are bad. “ I think it more has to do with the fact the strangers projected all their hopes and dreams onto the eye. And then when it didn’t turn out the way they wanted…they projected some malicious intent on the eye. None of the things they did were based off fact. But rather some projection of feelings or emotions.
@@TheLoreExplorer yeah I mean using the 'glitch' to see the code, not reading the game files. I still think there's a good reason that the bridges have codes, even if it's just so you could brute force them in theory.
And it's not that simulations are bad, Outer Wilds is a simulation itself. It's the nostalgia for simulations that the stranger's mistake condemns. Simulations are wonderful for what they show us about reality. Truth in simulation ::)
I’m sorry. I just think I don’t understand something here at a fundamental level. (Maybe in the dlc or in your interpretation). Or maybe I’m just confused because thats not really connecting the projection of reels, projection of “reality”(with the artifacts), and projection of the strangers thoughts as light. Idk. In a very real sense there was no truth inside their simulation that wasn’t already in “reality”. They went out of their way to hide that truth.
@@TheLoreExplorer Projection is symbolic. The projectors were the Strangers' first attempt to recreate their home, essentially by watching it on TV. Later the reels are used to record the Stranger's history, but why? The Prisoner has a reason to record and hide what they did, but the other Strangers, even the cult obsessed with obscuring the truth, still saved a copy of their history and hid it away. It's like what Don Hertzfeldt explores in 'The World of Tomorrow.' The Strangers are obsessed with memory and preservation, and the things they do in the name of their nostalgia are framed as mistakes.
The Dream World is just a more advanced projection, rather than a true simulation. It tries to be a full replacement for reality, and so it fails to be anything more than a lie.
I like to remember how we learn the solution to the Giant's Deep puzzle in the base game. Spire built a model to demonstrate how Giant's Deep worked. That model is a kind of simulation, but a true simulation: a scale model, like the one they use to model the bay in San Fransisco (www.spn.usace.army.mil/Missions/Recreation/Bay-Model-Visitor-Center/ ). That's the kind of simulation Outer Wilds is and loves, the kind that exists to learn or teach about reality.
The ending of the DLC changes depending on how much you know in the base game. Meaning you can beat it at anypoint without being spoiled of stuff from the main game.
Example: Once you figure out the comet is what killed everyone after exploding ghost matter everywhere the projection you show the owl man will then show the Nomai people dying from the comet. Every litle scene is dependent on your characters knowledge of their solar system.
Lore you have finally reached 10K Congratulations!
Yay, thank you!
@@TheLoreExplorer what are you going to do to celebrate?
I cried, I cried at the end of the DLC. Ir was just so FUCKING beautiful
One thing I wish they'd done different is lead us back to the some of the other planets for small lore parts. Obviously those parts would be hidden and only solvable with things from the stranger.
Imo Im super glad it has nothing to do with our solar system. If the owlks had interacted with our solar system it would change the whole story.
@@TheLoreExplorer I totally think the devs could pull it off and not ruin the original game, but I guess it's better to be safe than sorry.
I love the trinity-like role of the hearthians, the nomai and the owelks. The nomai completed the story of the owelks, and we completed the story of the nomai. Brilliant storytelling, this dlc is a 11/10 for me
I thought the DLC was pretty nice. I do think i prefered the main game a little more, but this was nice too. Don't have any complaints really. The only small nitpick I have is, I think it is a little odd not a single Nomai ever accidentally found the Stranger. Sure you aren't supposed to think about it so that is why it is just a small thing.
I explained that in the video. They literally didnt have the capability. If a probe enters the space it loses connection to the outside. And the nomai didnt have the spaceflight capability to get out of the solar systems plane. To find the stranger you had to move 45 degrees off the plane and then line up with the stranger. Its touching to me they went through all the trouble to actually make that have sense. I was super worried about it.
The Nomai also never found their lost comrades and interstellar ship in the Bramble Dark. It's not far-fetched that they never detected a space station that was literally designed to be undetectable.
@@royalblue5367 It was less about detecting and more blind luck of stumbling into it. But Lore explorers explanation makes sense, it was just a wee thought that i myself couldn't answer so i am glad people can :)
That’s a really cool detail about the screen in the Stranger. I was a bit bothered that we could see the other planets from the stranger, because that means their light was blocked by the ship yet they remained visible through the ship simultaneously. The screen circumvents that problem of physics brilliantly
My experience with outer wilds and the dlc was a bit backwards as I’d watched a livestream of somebody else playing through outer wilds and exploring and learning and all that fun stuff. I thought it was a really cool game, but because I had that filter of watching somebody else play it I never connected with the game as one does when playing organically. I decided to buy the complete version of the game when it was on sale on PSN and after trying to find the dlc, I couldn’t get it and got annoyed and gave up. Fast forward a couple months I decided to give it another shot and after exploring the radio tower and going to the space probe, I finally started to feel that creeping sense of anticipation, discovery and connection I’d missed with the base game. Once I made it into the stranger and looked up I had goosebumps and the rest is an experience I will truly never forget. Playing through the dlc gave me that connection, that feeling of being a part of this wacky universe and the discoveries it was hiding. Upon completing the dlc entirely, having unlocked the prison and found the answers I seeked, I was overcome with a feeling of peace and joy, but also a bit of hollowness at knowing I robbed myself of that feeling for the entire game. Regardless of that, outer wilds will remain a very special game to me and definitely one of my personal favorite games of all time
I know the idea isnt for everyone. But check out my video "How to experience outer wilds for the first time(again)". May help in this regard. Truly , I think the game is best experienced a second time. Playing the first time , we know nothing about our character and the universe. Save we are astronauts and maybe know how to use a few tools. But after we complete it. We now know the universe. We know the pc a lot better. We know the characters in the universe. And so its easier and more meaningful once we can get into the mindspace of the hatchling imo. It allows us to experience and see things for how important and meaningful they truly are. And allows us to , say , go talk to gabbro after finding something out about the timeloop. Or Chert with the Nomain observations and whatnot. This trick helped me experience the game with fresh eyes. 3 years after initial completion of the game. I hope it can help you too.
@@TheLoreExplorer oh I didn’t realize you made a video on the topic, I’ll definitely check it out and see
I was in the same building when the dam broke in my playthrough. After a few seconds I was like "what was that noise?". I went out to check just in time to see the wave rushing at me before it hit.
both of my favorite theorist just posted, one of them include u!
I love the eerie music that the prisoner plays at the end, also I wonder what he says when you deny him, and how the ending looks without their “stain on your mind”
I really love the parallels between Solanum and the Prisonner. They maybe both were children birth in this solar system, with another way of thinking about the Eye Solanum was asking if the eye was bad when she was a child and when she eventually joined the Quantic Moon, she sayd that all the things we don't understand are not necessary bad, she's ready. And we can think that the prisonner thinks that way too because he tried to free the signal of the eye.
And I also really love the fact that the game shows us differents behaviors faced to the end of the universe.
I loved the DLC. My only real gripe, aside from the rightfully criticised structure of the stealth sections, is the Prisoner's speech in the end, where he reduces his society's problems entirely onto "fear", when their weaknesses actually ran quite a bit deeper. The main game is as much about spirituality as it is about knowledge - the Nomai don't just practice science, they downright venerate it religiously, yet their tradition of always asking questions and being considerate and unprejudiced keeps them grounded. The Strangers on the other hand are clearly the opposite; they are presented as naïve, eager to make assumptions and jump to conclusions, and then project (no pun intended) their failures onto others (which makes their love for strategic board games all the more ironic, as you'd expect them to know a thing or two about thinking before you act :-D ); ultimately their fears were just the sad consequence of their own presumptuousness and zeal. Maybe the devs just wanted to avoid the tired ol' "science vs religion" trope, but you don't really achieve that by just curtailing the moral of the story.
They didn't really avoid it, skirted it maybe, I mean the owl people straight up built a church then burned it down haha.
This game taught me that darkness is the most frightening thing in the world… until it becomes a nuisance.
It was great to see that the main gameplay ideas from Outer Wilds can be transported into a shorter, less expansive experience. The pursuit of knowledge, being wow'ed by your discoveries at every turn of the game and interesting secrets that were right under your nose the whole time. I would happily play games in this style exclusively for the rest of my life if I had to.
That being said I got extremely frustrated with the Owlelk, especially the final room in Starlit Cove and I spent way too much time figuring out what to do in the house in with the fireplace, before I realized I had to come back when they're dead. Maybe it was my own fault, maybe I got a bit unlucky, but getting caught over and over in pitch black darkness without any idea what to do about it, made me almost want to throw my controller a few times. Being annoyed (even if only at times) was not a feeling I wanted out of a Outer Wilds DLC.
Edit: I also read that they made some changes and added improved audio prompts the Owlelk make in a recent patch. It would be cool to see all the smaller and bigger changes they made to the game over the years. Maybe an idea for a video, if you have tons of footage from over the years :)
Geez. I do have tons and tons of footage from over the past couple years. Over a terabyte worth. The thing is I didnt store them by dates or game version. Itd be a lot of work looking through it all lol. I got frustrated ramming my head against the owlks as well. But thats almost always how outer wilds is. You find something. Bang your head against it. Realize you need to go elsewhere to solve it. All in all I still enjoyed my experience.
@@TheLoreExplorer Yea, I guessed it would probably be too much work lol. I recently saw the original design of the black hole forge for the first time and was very surprised how different it looked..
Definitely enjoyed the DLC. Just experiencing the Stranger and the feeling you got when you see that dam break for the first time was basically worth the price of admission, I would say.
I just hope other developers will incorporate some of Outer Wilds ideas for progression in the future. "Outer-Wilds-like" deserves to become its own sub-genre of Metroidvanias. So far it has not really caught on. Do you know of any other games with knowledge-based progression?
Nononono don't you dare call that projector conversations story *cringe*! That's the BEST catharsis I could hope for; for the first time, after learning SO MUCH the Hatchling is finally able to answer someone else's question with a story
That's THE moment of this DLC. THE DEFINING moment. I hope more games capture emotions like that
I didnt say it was. I said if they lazily just added it to the game for no reason itd be such hardcore fanfare itd be cringe
@@TheLoreExplorer Oh sorry then; yeah that sequence was basically fan-service at its best :)
Don't worry, most game reviews don't know what they're doing anyways. As someone who's dedicated so much time into this fantastic game, I'd say you're the most qualified person to review it.
Love that lantern guy holding the lantern and watching the little campfire bugs
I was playing the game while watching your video and when I got to the credits of the Eye ending, you were speaking while the epic music was playing in the background. I really got impressed of the timing lol
I relate to what you said about expecations - I really did not think they could do it again, but they did. Truly amazing.
i love this moment 2:55
I was so overwhelmed by everything coming at me, falling into the river, looking up, the sense of wander was palpable.
Yet, despite being overwhelmed, I couldn't stop playing it.
I was so utterly enthralled by how organically this game fits both intense moments of gameplay and jaw dropping revelations/events (that are actually really scientifically plausible) make you question everything you've seen up until that point in time, with slower exploration based lore digging bits that employs the old "show, don't tell" adage. I truly adore this game and I believe people should play it. It's a hundred times more fascinating and consistently well presented than any other sci-fi I've seen in recent years.
It's truly a work of art. The game as a whole is a masterpiece.
I mean, campfires, marshmallows, rafting, supernovas, quantum singularities and giant killer anglerfish, what more could you ask for?
The game is a commentary on video games in general. We are Strangers who fear failure and death in the real world so we satiate our desire to live and our fear of death by acting out life on virtual stages (video games, social media, etc.). The game is literally telling us to go outside and make friends with strangers instead of in our living rooms and basements in front of a fabricated false world.
Exactly, which only made the horror that the Strangers embodied even more terrifying. They are reflections of something very real...apathy and fear in the face of a dieing world. A desire to live in the past than to preserve the present we have now. They let their world (the real one) slip into total collapse because they were too busy getting that nostalgia fix. Like, did you see the dude in the other world watching a video...of the real other world...in it.
The shattered land in the end credit scene is there just from doing the DLC, even if you say no to the Prisoner. It’s only the village and other species that are tied to your response to the Stranger
It mustve been updated along with the dlc then. Odd they made it look sort of like the stranger if it were a planet
@@TheLoreExplorer I think it only appears from playing the DLC as interacting with the Stranger would have affected the Hatchling's memories when he entered the Eye and the choice only affected remembering the Strangers as a species.
Oh. I see what youre saying. If you interact with the stranger it changes. Regardless of if you finish it. Interesting.
the lore of the DLC is perfect, the strangers is full of amazing idea, but some points in the game design make that it didn't reach the expectation I had. (still a great game, I just had huge expectation!)
My main complain is that even after finish the DLC, I still can't figure out what was the intended way to pass through the second and third virtual world, as it fell very dull the just try to dodge the owls to finally reach the information you would have need to pass them the "intelligent" way. I really felt like if I had to outrun de angelfish "Feldspar style" and only discovering once deep in Dark Bramble that you can just pass quietly. Or like if you had to land on solar station to know about the way to teleport there. Or the fact that there is two type or tornado once in the centre of Giant's Deep... i've heard it's suppose to make you live things differently, but it's still dull to me.
a less important complain is that i feel like 50% of the things in the stranger had to be done before the dam break, while 40% is available all the time and only a few things have to be done after (actually except to go though the first virtual world, I can't even think of something you have to do after the breaking, i've visited the house surround by ghost matter while in water at first, but you could totally do with the camera).
Its funny watching this entire video after watching you play through it and your emotional reaction to the ending. I don't have enough words to express how blown away I was from the base game and the DLC. Outer Wilds is the best game I have played all year and the DLC only enhanced that experience. I wish we could have more from Mobius in the next couple of years but I doubt they can create another world that seemingly fits with everything in a similar way to The Stranger AND completely exceed our expectations.
I wouldnt put it past mobius to release something in the next few years! They are a small studio with a bunch of creativity, skill, and a need for income!
I personally didn't see the new race at the end as being friendly to the bug creatures. I saw them as being a threat to them, but who knows!
What made you feel that?
@@TheLoreExplorer just that the figure we see with the lantern appeared to be creepy looking like the Owlelks were, as well as appearing from the dark as if it was stalking the bug creatures.
@@anfwrax3596 I guess there is no real way to know. But isnt that falling victim to the test they are presenting us? Why be afraid of the unknown? To me it seems like the creature with the lantern is coming to show the creatures relying on fire a cool new source of light! But as you said. Who knows lol
@@TheLoreExplorer I suppose it could work either way! I know I'd be happy if it was a friendly race instead of a threatening one haha. I saw it as we took a risk by allowing the Prisoner to play with us during the final song, and that the fear that his race knew in their final years was able to make its way into the new universe.
If that is the case I'm sure our bug friends would be able to overcome and hopefully teach them to not be so fearful though.
Heres my take on it. The prisoners species was the one that held the fear but the prisoner didnt bring that along with them. The prisoner was the one that effected the ending since he was the one "actually there". He tells us he is willing to join us if we are willing to let them. And they tell us "Whatever happens next. I dont think it is to be feared.". If anything, I think the new taller species might live in fear a bit. Maybe thats why they decided to live underground. But now with the prisoners influence they are brave enough to try learn something new(like meet a new bug species they see is now living above ground) again! Hopefully I can figure out a way to prove it or at least find a point that is something convincing. But either way its nice hearing other peoples perspective! Thanks for sharing!
13:58 bro I was just vibing???? Why you have to make me jump like that.
I couldn't wait to hear your thoughts on this. Your enthusiasm is contagious. I'm glad you enjoyed the DLC!
I just finished streaming the dlc, chat loved the original and this one too. Thanks to finding your UA-cam by happenstance I decided to go on this journey of a game and had a blast!
One of the strongest emotions i felt playing the dlc was an immense and tragic love for the Prisoner.
god the comparison of white water rafting as a camping activity is an awesome observation i didnt even realize through the whole dlc lol
Hi everyone, I just realised how the owlks aestetics has been inspired by native American cultures from "Cascadia" (from Northern California to Southern Alaska). Just look for tsimshian art, architecture or clothing, it jumped out at me. I find it also really similar to Tlingit or Heiltsuk cultures as welll for instance
i feel like this was the best possible way to make a dlc, it didnt add questions, and it wasnt just a thing with the "added in last minute" feel, the fact that the story made so much damn sense and how the stranger's position made even more sense despite the story making already enough sense that you cant have any more sense than that- my brain is broken basically
Oooo what if this dlc explains why the eye is stationary? The device being used to stop the eye’s signal from being heard could be the one “observing” the eye, which would explain why the eye has SET coordinates that allow the vessel to travel there.
These devs are so good at conveyance, guiding the character through visual and mechanical cues.
I could tell the game design was phenomenal when walking up the path to get my launch codes and the waterfall destroyed my ear drums. Let’s you lower your audio before your eardrums burst when you crash or fall to your death
My first go into the stranger, the damn broke the second I picked up one of the artifacts in the little workshop hut surrounded by ghost matter. I thought I triggered some kinda trap as I looked around wildly and was then flung against the wall by a torrent of water. Was hilarious, I just wish I had been recording at the time, my reaction was priceless! XD
8:10 this part terrified me, I spent half an hour trying to figure out how to light the lantern, I tried to hit the roast a mushroom button but accidentally hit the sleep button which I quickly woke up from, only to find all the mummified bodies gone, it was terrifying
Me and a friend binged this entire DLC in a day, it was amazing
This video gives me the chills!
A little background: I played the game right when it got released in 2019 and played it only once, together with a friend. We explored everything and got to the very end, we loved it a lot, we were waiting for it since the first old alpha. After finishing it we never played it again. Then by myself I watched almost all your Outer Wilds videos to fill the gaps in my questions.
In the meantime I forgot a lot about Outer Wilds, so right now I don't know what to do: restarting from scratch and explore everything again, or begin the DLC? I didn't quite understand how someone gets to the DLC part
Hmm. I’d say you have a few options. I’d play through the main game before I play the dlc if I forget some stuff. But the good news is I’ve condensed the whole story to about 2 hours or less in my outer wilds explained videos. So you can refresh yourself if you don’t have the time to play through it again. As for the dlc you do have to buy it first. Then visit the museum for the new exhibit!
@@TheLoreExplorer somehow I didn't get a notification about your reply, but thank you for replying!
So walking in the museum will "activate" the DLC, or the Stranger is in the solar system anyways? If yes, it happens at any time? You suggested getting into the DLC after exploring everything in the solar system so I think I should do that
Well, it is there the whole time. It always has been(lore wise)! But chances that youll just find it randomly are pretty low! The exhibit at the museum will lead you to your first real clue to find it! But itll be less impactful if you havent filled out your ships log to a certain extent. So I suggest doing that first.
@@TheLoreExplorer awesome thank you for helping! I might get back into Outer Wilds with my friend after a long while, I already bought the DLC
Cool detail I found if you have the travelers around the campfire at the eye and their playing the music if you take out your signal scope you can identify the prisoner and soleam as a signal! I don't know if you already know this but hey it's a cool detail
I did not know that. Thats super cool! And interesting because we do get "new signal nearby" when we run into ourselves. But it doesnt show up for them. You have to just try! Thats cool. Thanks for letting me know!
maybe you should do a video of how to find all the reals???
I dont really do tutorial videos on story parts of the game. Discovery is the whole point. If i show you where everything is then Im taking that from you.
i deleted my completed save file so i could complete the speedrun achievement, now i wish i had played the DLC with a completed save file. telling the prisoner everything i knew about the nomai would have been much more satisfying than the ending i got, and if you do the true ending with the prisoner but without solanum you don't get to see any of the sentient species inhabit the new universe :(
That definitely sucks. And although we dont get to see the new species if solanum isnt there. We do see a building or some weird structure in the corner suggesting they are there!
Can you spin some theories about The Stranger itself?
How did the ghost matter get on board, and why is it only in two places? Did it get in through the breach that was caused by the prototype artifact explosion? That would kind of explain the ghost matter nearby the breach on the way to the scroll burner temple, but what about the ghost matter on the exact opposite side of the ring, in the lowlands? Why only those two places?
And what about the solar sail's opening causes the dam to break? Is it really just disturbed by the rumbling that comes with the power flickering?
Even though this was the last we're gonna see from Outer Wilds, I cannot wait for what Mobius Digital has in store for us all next.
this dlc is ludonarrative harmony. i finished it today and get to watch the lore vids now!
I'm really late to the party, but I just released my own video giving my critique of the DLC. I'm happy to see how this game has affected other players, it's truly masterpiece, even if I am a little harsh on the DLC.
I was just wondering if the strangers blocking the eye of the universe's signal was the reason the Nomai couldn't travel there. The Nomai got the signal when the prisoner turned the blocker off for a short time but when they tried travelling there it was already back on which meant they crashed into dark bramble. Creating the orbital cannon meant their probe could travel faster or try to penetrate the blocker in different ways maybe?
I dont think so. Personally I think the signal they received bounced through bramble and they followed the duplicate. But the probe did have to get within visible range of the eye. So I imagine it got within the blockers range to hear the signal.
Some spoiler here aswell
I always had the curiosity to see what's inside the sarcophagus underwater (but the real one, not the one in the dream world).
I guess there's no way to open that thing in the game without cheating or clipping, I though that by unlocking it from the dream world, the real one will also be unlock, but nope.
After finishing the game you know that it has to be the body of the Prissoner, so after talking to him and making sure he is free, I managed to clip the probe in the sarcophagus just a bit, and indeed he is inside, looks like is the same body you encounter when you have to collect his instrument.
But I find interesting that his flame is still burning despite that he finally ends his life after talking to him (I think... that part is a bit subjetive)
if you choose the first option to say well see what happens (which i chose thinking oh yeah unexpexted stuff is going to happen but thats life) you just see the other race and the bug people dont appear
One thing I didn't like about this new story is that there are basically no characters except for the Prisoner. The rest of the owls are seemingly presented as this completely homogenous people without any distinctiontive features to any of them at all: no significant physical differences, no apparent personalities, no personal stories, nothing save for slightly different antlers and jewelry on some.
Despite that, all of them are technically unique and each owl in the dream world even has a name in the code. I've tagged you on reddit, you can look at the list there
I see why people think this. But Im not sure its true. They could have all had names and stories and personalities. They could have even had mayors and what not. But firstly outer wilds doesnt seem to like to share unimportant information unless its required for the story. And there was no real way for them to present these to us other than name tags on cloaks in the reels or something. They had hotels and churches and stages to perform. We just arent shown these things.