Це відео не доступне.
Перепрошуємо.
Latter-day Saints believe they can become GODS?! Ep. 87
Вставка
- Опубліковано 25 сер 2020
- Latter-day Saints believe that Christ not only intends to save us from our sins, but that He also intends to exalt us-to teach us how to become more like our Father in Heaven. In this episode, Dave talks about what the Latter-day Saint doctrine of deification is and is not.
See video transcript here: [We’ll put a link here when available]
From the Church’s website: bit.ly/2M7cUuG
From the Encyclopedia of Mormonism: bit.ly/3eFJAHY
Relevant article from the Deseret News: bit.ly/3cofW8D
Answers to common questions about theosis: bit.ly/2XOSlbQ
More answers to common questions: bit.ly/2AtZZ3r
Review by Jordan Vajda of book on deification: bit.ly/2XSL0I2
From “LDS Truth Claims” (FF to last ⅓): bit.ly/2TZP88b
Not the most authoritative source for additional info (this is just some guy’s blog), but I thought what he said about Latter-day Saints was funny: bit.ly/2AvoDjU
Notes:
-You’ll notice that this episode did not address the King Follett discourse. I’m planning on dedicating an entire episode to that sermon in the future, though it certainly does relate strongly to this subject.
-In my research I compiled quite a lengthy list of quotes from early church fathers, modern scholars, Church leaders, and others that talk about theosis. Because of the quantity, you can view them on our website. The link should be provided above once the transcript of this episode is published. Some of the quotes have already been included in this episode, but I strongly recommend checking those out if you are interested in this topic further.
It is worth noting once more that while several notable historical figures have spoken about theosis, I do not claim that each example represented in these notes (or on the website) reflect theosis in the exact same way as Latter-day Saints teach it today. Since I have some space here, here are a few examples of what you’ll find on our website:
-“We have learned that those only are deified who have lived near to God in holiness and virtue.” Justin Martyr
-“We have not been made gods from the beginning, but at first merely men, then at length gods.” Irenaeus
-The righteous are “...destined to sit on thrones with the other gods that have been first put in their places by the Saviour.” Clement of Alexandria
-“They see that from Him there began the union of the divine with the human nature. This was so that the human--by communion with the divine--might rise to be divine. This not only happened in Jesus, but also in all those who not only believe, but enter upon the life that Jesus taught.” Origen, (c. 248, E), 4.475.
-"Now it is possible that some may dislike what we have said representing the Father as the one true God, but admitting other beings besides the true God, who have become gods by having a share of God. They may fear that the glory of Him who surpasses all creation may be lowered to the level of those other beings called gods. We drew this distinction between Him and them that we showed God the Word to be to all the other gods the minister of their divinity.... As, then, there are many gods, but to us there is but one God the Father, and many Lords, but to us there is one Lord, Jesus Christ...." Origen (ca. AD 185-251), Commentary on John 2:3
-“Do not all Christian churches advocate Christlike behavior? If so, are we better Christians if we only desire to be 90 percent like Christ, rather than 100 percent? If it is blasphemous to think we can become as God now is, then at what point is it not blasphemous to become like God--90 percent, 50 percent, 20 percent, 1 percent? Is it more honorable to seek partial godhood than total godhood? Are we to walk the path of godhood with no hope of ever reaching the destination?” Tad Callister, “The Inevitable Apostasy and the Promised Restoration,” pg 159.
-“This is the central truth of all Christian soteriology that finds an organic unity with the revealed reality of the God-Man. God became man that man could truly participate in the life of God--so that, indeed, in a certain sense, he could become God. The Fathers of the Church had a clear consciousness of this fact. It is sufficient to recall St. Irenaeus who, in his exhortations to imitate Christ, the only sure teacher, declared: ‘Through the immense love he bore, he became what we are, thereby affording us the opportunity of becoming what he is.’” John Paul II, Jesus, Son and Savior, 1996, pg. 215. Address from September 2 1987. Cited here: bit.ly/3cqon30
SUBSCRIBE:
saintsunscripted/subscribe
Follow Us:
Facebook: / saintsunscripted
Instagram: / saintsunscripted
Twitter: / saintsunscript
Follow the Host:
David: / davidesnell
The Sunday Pews (by David): / thesundaypews
I think that if there is one doctrine that Satan might hate more than any other, it's this. Because this is the very thing he sought to gain by trying to take power for himself, but instead it's now the thing he can never have.
This is why Satan fell. He was told to bow before men who will become higher even then he. And he got very mad. “They are made of dirt! Im made of fire. I will never bow to them.”
No satan is glad to hear this doctrine, remember the first one to come up with is doctrine was satan, read the first 3 chapter of genesis. Satan said u will be like God
Too bad Lucifer went against Heavenly Father’s plan and wasn’t chosen to be the Son and be the Savior. Lucifer was angry and led one-third of the spirit children to fight against God, and they were driven away from heaven, and Lucifer became Satan.
Based
This teaching, which has been a core doctrine since the 1840s, was sometimes downplayed or denied in various forums after the aggressive and often unfair attacks from evangelicals starting with the Godmakers in the early 1980s. Thank you for taking a direct approach to the topic.
david janbaz what’s the full address?
S Vance I Think it Depends to whom that person speaks to and by what setting or occassions
Am the one who approach the Elders as they teach a neighbor friend (march 1990) and now i realize they are teaching Discussion 2 For the Elders speaks more of Jesus Christ and AF4
(Faith, Repentance, Baptism, Gift of the Holy Ghost)
They even commit me as well - i said yes!
Since i just stepped on being a teenager, they require a parent/s too
So The Missionaries began teaching my Father too - it was my first time to hear the discussion 1 principle 1 and when Elder Clarke says "God is perfect ... and we can become like him"
I uttered wait' "we can become like him-like God?
Elder Clarke pause for a seconds then asks "did you hear that? Whattt ah oo yung mga baboy yun
(Those are the pigs) but the elder face smirks "ah mga biik i said" (piglets i mean) then he pointed to the kittens and ask me what are those then asks when they grown up? I said Cats ... am somewhat frustrated the elder continues and ask tuta(puppy) - aso(dog) he also use this horse analogy (in tagalog Kabayo-Bisiro) am thinking is he learning our language
Then ask me You are a Son-Father
A child of God .... now my mind is on this throughout the Discussion
The rest is history
So to those who persecutes the Church
And tells this was not taught by the missionaries
I Do Testify The Elders/Missionaries do teach this
Things, when am in the branch this was taught too ... am here in the Philippines
@@jinkazama5720
We are all children of God, which makes us gods, with a small g. We are not “Gods” to be worshipped.
The very first of the 10 commandments says we shall have no other gods before God. We have no other God that we worship, only the one true God that is our Heavenly Father.
God created us in his image and his likeness and gave us dominion over the animals.
Genesis 1:26-27
26. Let us make man in our image, after our likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Psalms 82:6
6. I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Jesus quotes Psalms and says we are all gods.
John 10:32-35:
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Jesus tells us to be perfect, like God.
Matthew 5:48
48. Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is…
@@rodclarke8957yo yo yo don’t forget about the intercessory prayer in John 17 that’s pretty important too
It makes so much more sense to me to believe in a God who wants us to also become God's and a not one who wants us to have eternal life just for the heck of having eternal life
@XYU congratulations you managed to accomplish nothing with an *epic* response! You actually added no intellectual insight to a comment some kid made on the internet!!!
@XYU bruh are you being fr? Your comment is fallacious. You are failing to see how you are making no logical sense. I'm the one disassociated with reality yet you can't seem to make one logical statement. I called you out for putting no intellectual thought into you comment and you responded with even less thought. But fine we will play your game of stupid "my belief in a guy that we have no physical evidence for makes more sense than yours". Your stated belief makes no sense "we die and become 1" like what we all become part of God? Or we all just worship him for eternity? It makes way more sense to me that we will have a purpose to continue to gather the intelligence in the universe. Have you ever considered maybe im not being lied too and that you don't have the full truth and you aren't willing to except it?
@@davidjanbaz7728 there's just too much evidence and it just seems way too unlikely that JS fabricated the BOM. Not to mention he definitely passes ch13. He passes ch18 even though that's one we could argue about for hours. You speak of things you know nothing about, because of your own lack of motivation to actually learn the truth. I firmly believe you know very little about my church yet believe it is un true. There are many voices in this world and the amount of anti mormon propaganda can me 2 things. The church is false or Satan is trying extra hard to attack the 1 true church. After reading the BOM and praying and doing plenty of research both for and against the church I believe it is most definitely the latter option.
@@davidjanbaz7728 bro idk what you are smoking he definitely passes both tests. And Idk what "wrong" ideas you are talking about because you provided none. Also it's spelled "liars" and the adjective doesn't describe our prophets. The Holy Ghost never left the earth during the apostasy. Having living apostles just makes sense, our church just makes more sense you guys need to just research for yourselves.
@@davidjanbaz7728 ever heard of Nahom? Or the hopewell? Seems like archeological evidence to me! And it makes total sense that Satan would appear as an Angel and tell Joseph smith to teach people to worship God and follow Jesus! Totally something Satan would do, appear as an Angel to deceive people into reading the Bible and Book of Mormon and worship God and following Christ.
This was a refreshingly sincere and straightforward video. I learned a lot from it.
Theosis isn't a concept unique to Mormons. The Eastern Orthodox Church also believes in a similar concept.
The Mormon religion believes that you can become gods. EO would consider this blasphemous. You’re a cult that, like Scientology, attempts to use actual religion as support in order to gain credibility. And frankly, it’s offensive.
Catholics, too. Deification is in the new Catholic Catechism.
"As man is, Jesus once was. As Jesus is, man may become."
How is that any different than:
"Beloved, now are we the SONS OF GOD, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM; for we shall see him as he is." --1 John 3:2
Well first you have to dive deeper to the Joseph smith's King Follett discourse hisself. He clearly said that GOD FROM ETERNITY IS FALSE. GOD WAS MAN WHO WAS EXALTED.
your doctrine of exaltation based on that. The gospel term of to become like God IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT from your heretic understanding cause your doctrine, as joseph smith himself has said, u ought to be same like God who was a man! That being said, u also shall deserve worship cause u walk in the same path as God had done. Does your brain even work?
Theosis/Deifiation (θέωσις) is also a very important concept in the Eastern Orthodox Church. According to them, and in very general terms, human beings can have real union with God, and so become like God to such a degree that we participate in the divine nature. This concept, which has been traditionally received negatively in the West, has an essential role in the spiritual life of Orthodox Christians. I know there may be disagreements on how exactly LDS and the Orthodox Church understand the state of deification, but it is anyway very interesting to see a confluence point with that concept between both Churches.
Yeahh.. And also eternal families.. Orthodox Christ doesn't pronounce marriages to be till death parts. They are supposed to last in eternity.. but LDS imagine that sort of postmortal relationship to be quite literal, close to what we have now on Eath. Orthodox Christians believe in a more metaphysical nature of relationships on the other side of the veil.
that is why we take on his name. we try each day to become more like him. and you right that is why there is eternity. we follow Christ unto salvation, perfection and to glory.
Exactly! When the sheep follows the Shepard exactly. Where the Shepard goes the sheep goes. What the Shepard does the sheep become one minded with the Shepard. This sheep Thi is obviously a metaphor, but we become like Jesus Christ and we go where Jesus Christ goes because we follow him. And we are one with him. And because and through him we become like him.
@@Herosoulstone speaking of metaphor I have not seen a sheep since I left Montana. Maybe we can use the professor and student maybe Mary Ann. We are going to have a rough time in the future. Our leaders tell us all Christ followers are persecuted. but it will be worth it. what I am saying is make friends and keep them close.
@@davidjanbaz7728 No, when Sheep are called to be leaders, they become shepherds over the sheep that they preside over.
The Lord has many shepherds over the sheep in the church. The Lord choses whom he will call. This is why we have a rotating Leadership..... The Lord regularly calls and releases whom he will to serve him in various positions in the church......
In the other Churches, there's usually just one guy up on the pulpit talking all the time and that's your pastor or minister
and hes usually up there for a long long time, probably for the rest of his life before they get another one
to replace him. But in the church its totally different, everybody gets a turn to speak up on the pulpit for
giving assigned talks, or bearing testimony so you are always seeing new faces.
@@davidjanbaz7728 That's that the point of Christ. It's a Metaphor and all metaphors have their imperfections. Without Christ we cant become like him. that's the lesson and point of the Metaphor.
@@davidjanbaz7728 Christ told us to be as he is, And we can because of what he has done for us.
"You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me."
Isaiah 43:10
Psalms 82:6, John 10:33-36, Romans 8:17, Galatians 4:7, 1 Corinthians 3:21-23, Revelation 21:7
All of these point towards us being gods or with the potential of it.
@@bigboybrock1205you are out of context reading the verses you shared.
Definitely glad I found this channel and am learning about Mormons but I don't believe agree with them but its interesting to say the least
Can’t deny that some of our points make sense lol
On my mission we came upon a Jehovah’s Witness who was telling us about her views of what heaven will be like. She said that we would spend terrify at the feet of Jehovah and sing and eat grapes. I’m not kidding. My companion, who had already stated our belief of us becoming like God said, “if we’re right and you’re wrong, I feel sorry for you. But if you’re right, and we’re wrong, I still fill sorry for you. I cannot think of a more boring eternity than what you had described.” She was taken aback, but it was the truth.
If Isaiah Psalms and other bible scriptures clearly teach that God has no begining or end, is the God of all eternity and there are NO OTHER GODS BESIDES HIM, how on earth would Lorenzo Snow, J Smith and other elders / prophets etc claim that you can become a god and claim that God was once a Man???????
my brother in Christ remember to pray for the mormons, because we are saved by faith and faith isn’t just believing in him, is giving him every single piece of yourself to him, the whole idea you could become god is the opposite of this:
✝️Mark 10:17-18✝️
17 And when he had gone out to the road, a man came running, and kneeled to him and asked him, Good Teacher, what should I do so that I may inherit eternal life? 18 Jesus said to him, Why do you call me good? There is none good but one, who is God.
no one can become like god that’s literally the sin satan committed, taking part in god’s divinity doesn’t mean being omnipotent, it means to love only, i think that’s what paradise is about, if it was a place where we could have everything we want, it would be terrible, i think the love of god that we will take and give to god and others for eternity is the only thing worth to live forever. It doesn’t correlate to The Holy Trinity, it’s a concept so bigger than us that claming we could be a part of that is simply heretic, and God doesn’t need to: create more beings and make them equal to him to
”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””” feel proud of himself ””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
is so wrong, he is literally beyond the fact of being proud and he has infinite glory so the fact that more gods to tell him that he is perfect is simply stupid. God wasn’t a man, it’s simply blasphemy. I will start to pray for mormons that they may find the right path.
Every father here on earth want their children to become like them and so our Father in Heaven he want us to become like him. Not that we take his position as God almighty but we can be like him in everything.
Become like God = having the CHARACTER of Christ, patient, loving, brave, etc. The “throne” of God and the “glory” of God is the pure Christlike charity and love. The City of Zion will be full of these kinds of people.
Isaiah 46:9 (KJV) "...for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me".
Isaiah 44:6 (KJV) "...I am the first and I am the last; and beside me there is no God".
Hi Barb Wire,
That was form of expression back in the ancient days. It was also used to by local kings, "Beside me, there is no other king." It was a way to express their authority over the people of their kingdom, even though they knew there were other kings in other lands.
Isaiah 14: 12-15 explains that Satan was cast from heaven for just thinking in his heart he could be like God--the most High. God has repeatedly stated in the Bible that He is a jealous God. Casting satan from heaven shows the seriousness of the arrogance of even thinking that anyone can be like Him.
In Geneses 3: 3-5, (in the garden), God told eve she could not eat the fruit, lest she die, but Satan told the woman that " ye shall not surely die" (in contradiction to what God told her). "But, if you eat the fruit, your eyes will be opened, and you will become as Gods".
The Christian Bible in numerous verses declares that Satan cannot tell the truth. Every word he utters is a lie. He was a liar from the beginning. John 8:44 says there is no truth in the devil; he is the father of lies.
Satan says we can become Gods ourselves. God says satan is a liar. You figure it out.
@@beccnae14listed here are just a few of the verses in the Christian Bible that emphatically states there never has been but one God, and never will be another God after Him. God is profoundly jealous of other Gods (Exodus 34:14). Isaiah 43:10 states " ...before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me". Isaiah 45:5, 2 Kings 19:15, Psalm 86:10, Isaiah 37:16, Isaiah 37:20, Nehemiah 9:6, 2 Kings 19:19, Isaiah 44:8, 2 Samuel 22:32, Psalm 18:31, Isaiah 45:14, Isaiah 45:18, Deuteronomy 32:39, Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah 45:21, Isaiah 45:6, 2 Samuel 7:22, Isaiah 64:4, Deuteronomy 4:35, Deuteronomy 4:39, 1 Kings 8:60, 1 Corinthians 8:4, 1 Timothy 1:17, Mark 12:32, Joel 2:27.
Mormonism, like many religions, practice "dalmatian theology", purposely picking spots in the Bible that, taken out of context, supports their biased view.
There is only one God, from the beginning; there has never been but one God; there never will be any more or any other Gods---never. The Bible could not be clearer. The end.
Yes LDS teachings are OUT OF CONTEXT.
@@beccnae14 But the Scripture is not speaking of Kings. It is speaking of God.
This is one of the doctrines I liked the most when I was Mormon.
There is always room for you to come back... The Lord needs all willing and experienced minds on His side.
Why did you leave?
Wickedness To Joy many people leave simply because of a loss of belief rather than hatred for the church. It may be he simply lost faith. A while ago I left the church simply because I lost faith, but I had nothing against it. I knew all the rumors and falsifications about the church and all the things that anti-mormons say about the church were lies and wrong, because I’ve experienced the church and studied it deeply. I know the things they accuse the church of were wrong. I just simply left the church because I stopped believing in it, it had nothing to do with the churches morality or ethics because there was nothing wrong with it’s morality or ethics
Thankfully I came back not long ago :)
@@zrosix2240 I'm very happy you came back!
@@zrosix2240 I find myself on that edge of losing faith so often. I'm so lucky that I have my Wife who helps me hold onto the iron rod. It's so true that if we loose sight of what's good and then we slowly stop reading scriptures and stop praying as often then we just loose faith. I'm glad to hear you came back. Gives me hope that I will come back before I go that far. I'm trying. Right now it is especially hard. I'm so grateful for prayer. I can feel God's love and know that I am his son. 🙂
Really good explanation of what we believe. One thing I would like to add is I think it's important to understand "god" as being a glorified and perfected human through resurrection made possible through Jesus Christ. All this talk about us one day having our own planet and having people pray to us in the future is wild speculation and possibly blasphemous. Heavenly Father will always be our Heavenly Father and while we may become glorified and perfected humans like him, that doesn't mean we're going to become God like he is God. If that makes any sort of sense.
Love this video! Blessed to be LDS🥰👍🏾 Thanks for sharing🌺
:) you're welcome!
I dont understand if you believe that God was one man, than who created God? You can't have an infinite procession of thousands gods who were all created by something else. There needs to be an unmoved mover who is the one and true God. If there is the ultimate God who created everything, than why don't mormons worship him?
But isn't that what the word infinite means is this context? no beginning? It really isn't that different than the Big Bang/Crush theory of infinite repeating universes with no start or end universe. No 'unmoved move' required, which isn't exactly a Biblical phrase anyways. Heavenly Father is our God, full stop. What happened before He created our universe and pre-mortal existence is beyond our remit.
I agree Maria. The true God is the creator of all that exists. We need to worship Him.
Maria L. Because Mormons have fallen into apostasy and no longer have a true prophet.
I like how you pretend to understand enough of eternal items and principles to dismiss them using your theories of worldly origin
There is no doctrine revealed to assume that there are other Gods higher than God. That is an assumption based on one scripture. We can become LIKE God in character and participate in His Holy Work of organizing and beautifying the universe (which is why we created this world and what we’ll be doing in eternity), but there is zero doctrine that God is not sovereign.
The church doesn't worship the creator. They worship a God who is an exalted man. Remember the Lorenzo Snow couplet. He said God inspired him and the church declared it is doctrine in 1982.
He claimed "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become"
Clearly the official Doctrine of the church is that God was once a man. At one time he was not exalted. So the God of the LDS church was not eternally God. He was once a man. Just like Heavenly Mother was once just a woman. The Mormon concept of God has, since the King Follett Discourse, been the idea that the God of the church is someone who followed another God's plan of salvation to obtain exaltation. This is factual and the church declared it doctrine in 1982 (I would link but it probably would erase the whole comment)
Do you believe God was once a man and he only organized matter? He never created anything. He just organized matter to make this earth? (Book of Abraham 4:1)
I love Jesus The Christ's intercessory prayer (John 17) where He prays that the disciples will be one the same way that He and the Father are one. I don’t know anyone who believes that Jesus imagined the disciples being compressed into one substance. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are perfectly one in their purposes and actions.
We can Be One in Unity, Working together. for We can Be One People as Even the Father, The Son, And the Holy Ghost are in Harmony.
david janbaz amen
Well yeah. Latter day saints beleive this also. I have alot of other Christian friends who aren't part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day saints, that know this to. But the way people describe the Trinity, with the father and the son and the holy ghost differ than what Jesus Christ was explaining. We can be one with the same spirit that dwells in us. We can be one in Harmony. We can Become One The Same Way the Father, The Son, And the Holy Ghost are All One. Jesus Himself says we can, just the way they are. The Horse that listens to the master perfectly becomes one in mind with the master. They become one even though they are distinct beings. The same way many sheep can be one in a Hurd together, the father the son and the holy ghost, are seperate individuals but are one together. In power, and will. And we our selves can be one with them the exact same way Jesus said he was with the father. They are distinct three different beings, but make up the concept of One God. Because they work together and are in hamrony and unison together. Their is only one god. And god is uncreated. We can be one with God. That doesn't make multiple gods, but just being a part of that one God idea in a sense. Or life style or way of being that has always existed. While we might all become gods as our own Beings, when one is God, they are all one Together in Harmony. And are connected like the holy spirit in a sense. The Intercessory Prayer Jesus Christ taught is beautiful.
It's Beautiful how you can have multiple gods, and still their be only one God.
Like a Hurd of Sheep, they are individual beings, who work together and follow the same path, they are one.
Just like the father, the son, and the holy ghost.
They are all indivual gods, but they are One, making the saying, Only One God.
A way of being, living, following that has always existed, and has never come into existence.
The father the son and the holy ghost, are indivudal Beings. That Are One together.
We can become one with them the same way the father the son and the holy ghost are one together.
@@davidjanbaz7728 Explain? Also David your awesome.
The doctrine of becoming like God is taught in Romans 8:16-17
“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.”
Do not REAL children have the potential to become what they are children of? If one REALLY “inherits” what God has, are they not equal with God?
So the real problem is that tradition claims that God is not REALLY a Being, but is an immaterial body-less “Spirit” totally unlike His supposed “children”. And God has sole power as Creator that no resurrected human could REALLY “inherit” as a joint-heir.
So only by explaining away the simple truths found in Romans 8:16-17 can this doctrine be demonized.
@@erichard777 We can NEVER be equal with God.
Simply because he is the creator and we are his creations.
“The doctrine of God's immensity stresses God's greatness above angels and humans. This can be seen in a number of ways. God is the Creator, while humanity and angels are part of the creation. God is infinite while everything else is finite. God needs nothing to exist while everything else has to depend upon something else to exist. Consequently there is a great gulf between the Creator and His personal creation - human beings and angels.”
@@vaunt.e8537 Revelations Chapter 5 shows that those who overcame by faith and win an immortal crown for themselves which the reward that's promised to faithful saints and become joint heirs with God and with Christ get to sit with God and Christ in heaven ruling as Kings with their crowns. Rev 3:21. So we see that God does share his glory with his faithful righteous Children and gives them an eternal inheritance with him to rule with Him in his kingdom. otherwise if he didn't share his glory with any of his children and give them His power and exalt them 1 Peter 5:6 then there would be NO HOLY GHOST GIVEN AND NO RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD, AND NO ATONEMENT. Those that teach that that God shares his glory with nobody and teach that none of his children are worthy to inherit his blessings or to be redeemed and brought back again into his presence and become holy like Him to become one with him and his Father because of misquoting and misunderstanding certain scriptures for Jesus and all his apostles all taught that we are to become like Him and his Father God.
.
2:47 "but over time this general idea faded into the background."
**deification text acually fades into the background**
Where all my Latter Day Saints At? We gotta Defend the Faith ✊🏽☝🏽🙏🏽
Keone Fatiaki no need to defend, they don’t want to have a conversation they just want to hate us
timneji that is so true, they just try and diss us but the funny thing about all of that is, they diss us before reading the Book of Mormon and Praying about it 🤷🏽♂️
Keone Fatiaki they will never willing to do. But I do not care “God know that I know and so I can not deny it.” He will be the judge at the end of the Day. And love one another is more important than hate other for there believes.
Keone Fatiaki I’ve read it, prayed about it, preached it for years. I’m on the other side of the table now. God is good!
Lots of us were also on the Attacking Side of the Church, meaning we attacked the church for years. And now we believe it.
Btw I think the whole book of Mormon thing and praying about it is somewhat a big misconception, and their was alot more to the verses around this promise made that needs to be followed to. But some of us defend the church now after attacking it for so long because of Evidential and Historical Reasons.
Isaiah 44:6-8.
There Is No Other God
6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
7 And who can proclaim as I do?
Then let him declare it and set it in order for Me,
Since I appointed the ancient people.
And the things that are coming and shall come,
Let them show these to them.
8 Do not fear, nor be afraid;
Have I not told you from that time, and declared it?
You are My witnesses.
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
I know not one.’ ”
Then why do you as a Christian worship a man? Worship the ONE God ALONE like every single Prophet taught. You are as misguided as these Mormons
I'm not LDS but I believe this. 1 John 4:17 "as He is, so are we in this world." Which means once you become a believer and follower of Jesus Christ you are like Him, as His glorified self.
Isaiah 43:10
states that “before me there was no God formed, nal shall there be after me” God says he was the first and last God and was always God.
Deuteronomy 4
says that he is the only God in the heavens above and the world below. And that there is no other. Notice how he says he is the “only” God meaning that its 1 God. Not multiple.
Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away but my words will never pass away.
I’m not Mormon
But I believe the idea behind their belief, is that these verses are used to convey that people should not worship other gods
Especially regarding Isaiah
They were meant to teach the people living in those times to not worship any other god. God is saying that they should not focus on anyone else other than him. And the phrases before me and after or “the first and last” is saying that no other god should be worshipped
“It’s just me”
No other new god will come around for people to worship. I hope this idea clears up confusion.
God bless
In simple terms they are used to deter people from worshipping false gods
Jesus said, "be ye therefore perfect as your father in heaven is perfect". If there was no possible way to become like Him why admonish us to act like Him?
Can’t wait to see the comments on this one.
GREAT EPISODE 💯‼️
God is so selfless and loving. I think it's cool how some people think this doctrine is heresy when in reality it's eternal life.
XYU it goes deeply into that in the book of Abraham. But I won’t go any deeper than that, because it’ll bring up a whooole new topic of argument
XYU that’s the same argument you made for the Book of Mormon. It’s a double standard argument that can’t be made in a basic linguistic argument. Go back to 8th grade politics, homie.
XYU I am ‘babbling’ about double standard. You can’t make a hypothetical statement and then ignore your own hypothetical.
@XYU "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen." (John 21:25) As members of the only true church of God which is the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints we have living prophets, priesthood authority from God, and so much more of God's Word. Now if you are a true follower of Christ and only read the Bible atleast he has favored you enough to believe in Him (which is such a blessing) but you can't capture all that there is to know about God in one book or a thousand books for that matter.
@XYU do you even hear yourself! You talk about intelligence and yet you resort to name calling and hateful talk. If that's what you aim for then you won't find intelligent conversations since you don't aim at having any. Be more Christlike and talk to people as you would want to be talked to.
I honestly don't really know how God can make it any clearer than what was already written in scripture more than 2000 years ago in Isaiah 43:10: “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. BEFORE ME NO GOD WAS FORMED, NOR WILL THERE BE ONE AFTER ME."
What makes this even more amazing is God REPEATED himself AGAIN saying he is the ONLY God. Two chapters later in Isaiah 45:5 he further VERBATIMLY says "I am the LORD (notice the caps!) and there is no other; apart from me there is no God."
But people STILL try to get around these verbatim passages. Its like when a person says "yes", he or she really meant "yes" and when a person says "no" he really meant to say "no". But because the human heart is SO deceitful and beyond cure (like how the Bible says) it will find ways around those simple verbatim words and attempt to twist things around to the point where the original intent behind what was said more than 2000 years ago turns perverted. I am going to outright say this with respect and honor, humility and love: NONE of us will EVER become God's of our own planets one day. Don't you see guys! This is what Satan did to Eve when he ALSO said to her that she can become like God. It's terrifying to see what is happening right now because this is CLEARLY Satan doing this and deceiving millions of people. The doctrine of becoming like God CLEARLY targets the *PRIDE* of men and in turns satisfies the pleasure of becoming a powerful being one day. Satan knows this and MAN is completely vulnerable to this tactic because it targets the very core of our arrogance, pride and self centeredness. It is DANGEROUS to the utter max because its carbon monoxide at its worst. Completely undetectable because the human heart has already been penetrated and is already engrossed in the pleasures of being a super demi god one day. The Bible calls the Devil CRAFTY AND CUNNING. The Devil knows the bible then most people and he knows which buttons to push and he knows how to take advantage of the prideful man by giving him what he wants which is becoming a god one day. It worked with Eve and it continues to work today. It is utter tragic and will cost the souls of millions upon millions of people one day simply because they let their pride overshadow the Word of God. However we are STILL alive, and still have a chance to turn from this wickedness of becoming Gods one day. Please turn from the Devil's crafty plans and turn to Christ who is our only one and true and living God and HE WILL GIVE YOU LIFE! Please turn now before its to late, you still have that chance! I pray that this post will bring at least one person to Christ!
Becoming like God doesn’t literally make u God. It’s having the character of Christ
Lol let’s get ready for the war in the comments
We ready for them😖✊🏽
True with only 130 likes and 242 comments I know trouble's a-brewing lol
Sarah Turner facts, they can diss all day but until u pray with TRUE INTENT u can’t get any answers being a keyboard warrior.
@@keonefatiaki Went from Mormon to Christian. I prayed for years about the BoM. Served a full two year mission and returned with honor. Served in the Denver Temple. TRUE INTENT took me to worshiping the true God of Scripture.
@@BrendonKing I use to feel pity and sadness for those who abandon the deeper understanding of the Mormon doctrine for the weaker, less detailed, and lower potential espousing doctrines of mainstream Christianity, and then I came to understand that it was because they just couldn't handle the pressure and responsibility of living according to the higher law of God. or that they didn't understand that higher law to begin with and are trying to find the level of belief that they can understand and feel comfortable abiding. And that is okay. God accounts for those who take a step backwards and a step away from the ultimate potential He offers and He understands that the fullness of the gospel and all that it entails can be very over bearing and burdensome to many. It may offer greater blessings and glory in The end, but it also requires much more up front, and some can't bring themselves to offer as much of themselves as God requires for attaining to those higher blessings. It's not bad to not be comfortable or happy taking on that added responsibility, it just means that you are finding where you are comfortable living, in the grander scheme of things, And that is the whole point to this life in the first place.
Anyone interested in this should research the heresy of Gnosticism found in the early church. Statements like, “We have a seed of the divine within us” are that exact heresy repackaged for our modern day.
Joshua Kruntorad Gnosticism is truth and traditional Christianity is false. But you don’t think so because you let the corrupt ones label themselves true and their opponents false. Ok then, if you have no discernment whatsoever. Just know that the orthodox you think are true are the ones that burned people’s holy books and them with them, while the mystics were the “peaceable followers of Christ” who didn’t hurt anyone. By their fruits you shall know them.
What they call heresy is actually personal revelation that. Heist said you needed because “flesh and blood has not made it known unto you, but my father who is in heaven.”
@@Christopherianmatt I hope you know how silly that reasoning is. I can abandon biblical Christianity altogether but as long as I'm a good boy I'm a true Christian because "by your fruits you'll know them..."
Works are important but, but Paul may have something to say about that in Romans 4.and Ephesians 2.
Most gnostics believed Jesus did not have a physical body, and was only a spirit pretending to be a person. They denied he actually died on the cross. They believed that you had to have special knowledge to be saved, and not everyone had access to that knowledge--only people with access to the right teachers. They had some wacky beliefs, and there is a reason they were deemed heretics.
By the way, neither of those things which I stated are LDS beliefs, so you may want to research before you blindly make the blanket statement that "gnosticism is truth..."
That' a Load of nonsense, Jesus ate a plate of fish in front of his own disciples to show he had a solid tangible resurrected body.
The old testament makes it very clear that God is holy while man is not. Man is flawed, thus our need for Jesus.
Because of the fall we have fallen. But we weren't fallen before the fall. We where made in the image of god, and weren't fallen before we fell. The fallen man Must need Jesus Christ. Without him we'd basically be hecka screwed
@@Herosoulstone where does it say that in the Bible or the book of Mormon?
@@jacobreeves3110 Adam and Eve weren't Fallen before they Fell. They Fell once they ate The Fruit. The Old Testament talks about man being Flawed Creatures because of the Fall. So Yes Man Is Flawed because of the Fall. The New Testament with Jesus Christ Allows Christ's Grace to lift us up through his Atonement and Rise out of Our Fallen State again.
@@jacobreeves3110 humans definitely have an aspect of divinity. Genesis 1:26
Notice how it also says "our" image, inferring the existence of heavenly mother
@@coltonkerbs7466 Joseph smith quotes:
“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”
“We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see.”
“I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth.”
If the book is the most correct book, why was there thousands of edits before it was even published. The first title page of the Book of Mormon supported the Trinity. But years later he changed it to support his new beliefs that he published in the book of Abraham, which has also been proven false.
I really wanted that there was a translated version of every video to many languages... The only reason I can't share this channel -- or this video in specific -- to my friends is that in my country we speak a different language, very far from English btw.
This video has closed captions for other languages. Press the "CC" closed captions icon. Then press the Settings icon next to it and move up and press "Subtitles/CC"; and then move down and press "auto-translate" and then choose any of the languages offered. Closed captions by AI in other languages are not perfect of course.
@@erichard777 thanks for that tip
What language do they speak?
That last part I agree with as a Protestant, but soooo much more so, as we are only created creatures who are not the same species as God. We can share in the divine nature without attaining the essence he has. THAT is WAY crazier than theosis!!! Wild that God would be glorified by such a relationship.
Becoming like God and having our own planet(s) WASN'T EVER DOCTRINE... According to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Despite all the previous conference talks, scriptures etc... The church says it was NEVER DOCTRINE. Why did they do that???
SO confusing, right? I find this happening a lot with their doctrine/policies. Changing narratives, but acting like it was that way the entire time. An example of this would be JS using a seer stone and hat to translate the book of Mormon. Definitely not what I was taught as a child/teen/adult in the church.
If we are given a coat rack, and begin to hang our purses and umbrellas and other noncoat things upon it .... then someone comes along and cleans off the rack so it can be used properly .... does that mean the coat rack is flawed?
"Becoming like God" is an article on the church's website, which I imagine you are referencing with your post. Within the article, it states: "These limitations [human conceptions] make it easy for images of salvation to become cartoonish when represented in popular culture". And, "The doctrine of humans’ eternal potential to become like their Heavenly Father is central to the gospel of Jesus Christ and inspires love, hope, and gratitude in the hearts of faithful Latter-day Saints".
If you want to believe that we get our own planet in heaven .... then by all means you are free to believe that, and even accept it as some deep and meaningful personal truth to guide you thru your journey in this life. When I was in college, back when I was like 42, I used my religion as a sounding board for the papers they wanted us to write. In my religion classes, I wrote about our potential to become like God and to do His work. I even included the concept of having a planet of my own, and naming it Bob. The kid sitting next to me laughed at the notion ... you cant name a planet Bob :) He got the point I was making.
The officials of the Church come along and have to clean off the coat rack from time to time so that our focus is on the core doctrines, and not the embellishments that have been hung from those doctrines. You say there is scripture that says we get our own planet? Can you provide references? Are there conference talks which actually demand that we believe that we get our own planets? And can you provide references that say we cannot believe we can get our own planets?
@@ep927 That is the problem with false doctrines.The Christian Bible will trap those that preach lies and false teachings. There are 34 verses in the KJV (Christian Bible) that emphatically teach there is no God besides Him, never has been from the beginning, never will be after Him. Due to brevity, I will not list these verses, but they can be found easily on the internet.
Isaiah 43:10 "...before me there was no God, neither shall there be after me." God is profoundly jealous of other Gods, any gods, including idolatry (a belief in other Gods, including the worship of material things, thereby putting emphasis of wealth on par with God).
Read (Isaiah 14: 12-15), where satan was cast from heaven for simply thinking in his heart he could be like the Most High, become a god himself. Exodus 34:14 teaches us that God is a profoundly jealous God. There are umpteen verses in which God repeatedly punished Israel for turning to other Gods, false gods that did not exist, often to Israel's destruction. I can think of no sin greater than the arrogance and pride of offending God, by proclaiming we can be like the Most High. (John 8:44) states there is no truth in satan, the father of lies. The Mormon Church Is still propagating the "BIG LIE", started by satan himself in the Garden, speaking to Eve, (Genesis 3: 3-5 ) that we all can be like the Most High---become a God ourselves. I can think of no sin that is greater.
The narrative has changed. The church used to refer to members becoming Gods if they were exalted beings. The gospel topics essay now says "God-like". The church newsroom last year said members would not get their own planet and that people can be "God-like" and not Gods. This is not the same as the older narrative pre-2013.
I think using God-like is there to avoid the use of "Gods" because that makes us seem polytheistic. I'm not sure that canonically we have ever said you get a planet. The topics essay still points the the same narrative. Obtaining exaltation is about relationships and children.
All of the quotes from early church fathers are out of context, completely. Psalm 82 is not by any metric saying you can become gods. That was God condemning the unjust judges of Israel who were supposed to be acting in Gods place in terms of judgment. It’s an irony reference “you say ye are gods? You will die like men you I just judges.”. This was also James Talmage’s viewpoint. Isaiah 43:10, 44:6, and 44:8 tells you there is no other god.
former member here from the 80's and 90's. I was taught that god was a man on a planet and earned his godhood. I was taught that if we reach the celestial kingdom, we would be gods of our own planet and have our own spirit children and populate said planet. Is this not taught anymore? I didnt even make it to the temple where all the secrets are revealed and this was common knowledge and a fundamental tenant of the faith... I believe it to be the antithesis of christianity to believe you will one day become a god now..
Iv always been excited about this and I'd like to learn more about it. However it's true that we do not aim to be better than God which I don't think it's possible considering the world we've lived in
For Catholics, read section 460 of the Catechism
Tell everyone about the Mormon belief that god the Heavenly Father was once a dude
in which part of the Book of Mormon does it say that "Heavenly Father was once a dude"?
One of your best videos. Congratulations.
But why did Joseph smith falsely prophesy? How many false prophecies do you need to give before you are a false prophet? Gimme a break man..
Joseph isn't a false prophet, he correctly foretold what the Lord would do to the planet when he spoke of the overflowing sickness that would hit the world in the last days. This prophecy has now been fulfilled. We now have the overflowing scourge now in the world just as the Lord has said would happen.. The result of that would lead to Revelations 18, causing the whole world to lock down and grind the world economy to a halt for an hour which also came to pass when the world went into global lockdown because of it.. Joseph Smith was given revelations about it in the D&C and the Lord told him that this sickness would cover the planet and pass over by day and by night and the reports of it would vex all the people. Well we have been seeing that all happening along with wildfires and hurricanes and floods... I don't think he was a false prophet because what the Lord had told him about of the coming judgements of God in the last days is all coming to pass. .
@@davidjanbaz7728 The Reason why we know you don't have all the truth and only have a small part of the truth when it comes to God is because of your attitude. Its not humble, but its condescending, haughty mocking, and proud and arrogant. The total opposite of what a Disciple of Jesus Christ should have. Are you stripped of pride, are you stripped of mocking and persecuting others, are you stripped of envy? If you have not stripped yourselves of these things then I cannot see you being prepared to meet the Lord when he and all the hosts of heaven come.
@@davidjanbaz7728 You seem to see the opposite of everything. Instead of seeing faith, you see nothing but doubt and have fallen into the trap that the Savior had warned about.
'If your eye be single to the glory of God, then your whole body shall be full of light.
So you must be filled with the light to remain in the light.. (See 1 John for an explanation of what it means to walk in the light of his love). This is why the Book of Mormon tells us to press forward feasting on the words of Christ.
The Warning:
But if your eye be evil, (fault finding, criticizing, murmuring) then your body shall be full of darkness, and how great shall be that darkness.
This is why the Lord gave the warning that what you focus on the most will determine how you view and treat others around you. These are the very attitudes that the Lord God had rebuked of the Scribes and Pharisees with his strongest words because of their lack of faith in the good things of the Lord because they chosen to focus on the wrong side of faith because they were children of the night so they complained and murmured against Jesus in the things that he did just as you are doing here now with the Saints in murmuring against them.
All we are concerned about is becoming children of the light in living the restored gospel and gathering the house of Israel and preparing ourselves to meet the Savior. and that is why we must continue walking in the light feasting on the words of Christ. (Daniel 12:3) So like Nemeniah, we are doing a great work for the Lord and we cannot come down. But If you want to remain in your creeds instead of building the kingdom of God with the Saints then that's between you and the Lord.
Becoming like God doesn’t take away his glory…it adds to it.
Right, who doesn't like some friends to hang out with?
Lucifer wanted to be God! Only one Perfect God.
I don't know why the Church issued that statement that "not much has been taught about it.
Joseph Smith taught: “It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God. … He was once a man like us; … God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 345-46).
That pretty much sums it up. God was once an accountant with a receding hairline and a crushing mortgage payment, but then two Kolobian missionaries knocked on his door and taught Him the ways of Mormonism, and now He is the creator of this universe!
It’s called embarrassment.
This is the lie from the garden “ye will be as gods.” Not a coincidence this doctrine is teaching the same thing. We know exactly who this comes from ☺️
Yes, Satan says that in Genesis, but to be fair the rest of what he says is, "ye shall be gods, knowing good and evil." (Gen. 3:5) However, latter in the SAME chapter, the LORD God says, "Behold, the man HAS BECOME AS ONE OF US, KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL." (emphasis added) Gen. 3:22. So while some see Satan as lying in Gen. 3:5: God seems to say that's exactly what happened when Adam and Eve fell.
Being "As Gods". I.e. knowing good from evil.
Which actually happened to Adam and Eve.
I believe Satan wants to separate us from God and he tries desperately to prevent Gods children becoming like he is.
@@cljacobs11 Witch was NOT Gods plan for man to know good and evil. LDS doctrine of people becoming gods themselves is Satan plan to replace God. Be it in the Garden or LDS teaching. Both work in the devils favor.
@@texasborn2720 That's incorrect because the Church of JESUS CHRIST of latter-day Saints teaches that Jesus is risen up in the flesh he is not just a spirit..
@@germanslice You are incorrect. LDS cult has a long documented history of polytheism.
It would explain why he loves us.
Catholic scholars and Orthodox icons to support your blasphemy. You have no shame.
I'm really loving these! Well done! Enlightening and humorous! Don't forget the time in John 10 starting from verse 33 when The Jews were angry with Christ and tried to stone him for making the claim that he was "God", and Christ quoted that psalm that states "ye are Gods".
I hope that your videos help explain and put a stop to some of the angry ridicule and allow a calmer fun loving opportunity to state what we actually believe. It's interesting that people get so worked up over other people's doctrine and beliefs.
What about the serpent saying “become like gods” the highest temptation
What about psalms 82:6, John 10:33-36, Romans 8:17, Galatians 4:7, 1 Corinthians 3:21-23, Revelation 21:7?
They don't believe in the Bible
@ScottyBeen Yes we do. I'm sorry you think we don't, but we're actually studying the Old Testament this whole year through a church-wide program. It's like Seminary in Sunday School.
What I like , if you noticed that the video addresses other Earlier Christians who believed in deification
question: in the pre-mortal life we are created spiritually. we are then to come to this physical earth and are born to live this life. but being still in the womb and not yet born. we are then cut short by abortion or other means. have we missed our chance at this life. will we get another chance? this question hinges itself on the word born. it is the belief of some that a body has to take the first breath in order to be born. I thank you for the good you are doing.
In my own thinking I believe that we need to get a body, that is what we came here to do, we know children are alive in God and in God's eyes are perfect, I think any aborted baby will live in the Celestial Kingdom with God, with a body, yet I cannot say that is a fact.
This point is the number one reason I can't convert to the LDS church. The idea that I could become a god is the antithesis of everything I believe in. It is literally counter to my very core beliefs.
Note: I don't get notifications when someone replies to my comments, so if I don't respond to you, I'm not ignoring you. ;)
Love all your work! Thank you! ☀️💕
I'm just gonna leave this here not gonna argue cause it says everything. Did anyone notice the g in god was lower case weird. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 Just for a hint make sure you understand the text before saying it.
Psalm 82 6-7
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
That and it was an indictment of the unjust rulers of Israel. Not verses i want applied to me, ever.
I agree i never want to be a god I just want to worship God.
Without context this sure does support the Mormon’s claim to “God wanting us to become a God like him” but with context it doesn’t really stand as a supporting reason. Because the “gods” mentioned here aren’t actually referencing us as gods but people with authority (like magistrates and judges) who act like God: judging ppl (by human standards or by the standards OF God). Although despite them being apart of a community that judges people on this earth they will “die like men” and be judged by the ultimate judger (God ofc)
A better rendering of Athanasius’ quote is “God became man, so that man might become ‘divine.’ ” you can go through the list of the early church fathers, and while you may use them for your purposes here, I plead with everyone to read them in context. Catholics, orthodox, etc believe in theosis/deification, but not in the way you explain it. We believe we can become sharers in the divine life with Christ, through his grace. We are human persons though, not divine persons. Early church fathers believed in Mary the perpetual virgin, the holy trinity, Eucharistic sacrifice. Sounds more Catholic/orthodox to me. Guys, please, I have many mormon friends. I like your channel. Don’t mislead people like this. Show all of Athanasius’ beliefs found within his writings, and put them in context. Please 🥺
Stutter Studios proof texting is a poison, and I’ll be the first to get on believers who proof text against the Mormon faith. Context is key.
Here are a bunch of Early Church fathers' quotes on the topic, just so that you can get a better perspective of the context, interpretation, and understanding that they had.
* Athanasius of Alexandria (c. 296-373)
o "Therefore He was not man, and then became God, but He was God, and then became man, and that to deify us” ( "Discourse I, Paragraph 39", Against the Arians)
o "for as the Lord, putting on the body, became man, so we men are deified by the Word as being taken to Him through His flesh.” ( "Discourse III, Paragraph 34", Against the Arians)
o "For He was made man that we might be made God.” (On the Incarnation)
• Irenaeus (c. 130-200)
o "[T]he Word of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, who did, through His transcendent love, become what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself.” ( "Book 5, Preface", Against Heresies)
o "'For we cast blame upon [God], because we have not been made gods from the beginning, but at first merely men, then at length gods; although God has adopted this course out of His pure benevolence, that no one may impute to Him invidiousness or grudgingness he declares, "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are sons of the Most High." ( "Book 4, Chapter XXXVIII", Against Heresies)
o "For it was necessary, at first, that nature should be exhibited; then, after that, that what was mortal should be conquered and swallowed up by immortality, and the corruptible by incorruptibility, and that man should be made after the image and likeness of God.” ("Book 4, Chapter XXXVIII", Against Heresies)
• Clement of Alexandria (c. 150-215)
o "[T]he Word of God became man, that thou mayest learn from man how man may become God.” ("Chapter I", Exhortation to the Heathen)
o "For if one knows himself, he will know God; and knowing God, he will be made like God” ( "Book III, Chapter I", The Instructor)
o "[H]is is beauty, the true beauty, for it is God; and that man becomes God, since God so wills. Heraclitus, then, rightly said, "Men are gods, and gods are men." For the Word Himself is the manifest mystery: God in man, and man God” ( "Book III, Chapter I", The Instructor)
o "[H]e who listens to the Lord, and follows the prophecy given by Him, will be formed perfectly in the likeness of the teacher-made a god going about in flesh.” ( "Book VII, Chapter XVI", The Stromata, or Miscellanies)
o "And to be incorruptible is to participate in divinity...” ("Book V, Chapter X", The Stromata, or Miscellanies)
• Justin Martyr (c. 100-165)
o "[Men] were made like God, free from suffering and death, provided that they kept His commandments, and were deemed deserving of the name of His sons, and yet they, becoming like Adam and Eve, work out death for themselves; let the interpretation of the Psalm be held just as you wish, yet thereby it is demonstrated that all men are deemed worthy of becoming "gods," and of having power to become sons of the Highest.” ( "Chapter CXXIV", Dialogue with Trypho)
• Theophilus of Antioch (c. 120-190)
o "For if He had made him immortal from the beginning, He would have made him God. Again, if He had made him mortal, God would seem to be the cause of his death. Neither, then, immortal nor yet mortal did He make him, but, as we have said above, capable of both; so that if he should incline to the things of immortality, keeping the commandment of God, he should receive as reward from Him immortality, and should become God...” ( "Book II, Chapter 27", To Autolycus)
• Hippolytus of Rome (c. 170-235)
o "And you shall be a companion of the Deity, and a co-heir with Christ, no longer enslaved by lusts or passions, and never again wasted by disease. For you have become God: for whatever sufferings you underwent while being a man, these He gave to you, because you were of mortal mould, but whatever it is consistent with God to impart, these God has promised to bestow upon you, because you have been deified, and begotten unto immortality.” ("Book X, Chapter 30", Refutation of all Heresies)
o "If, therefore, man has become immortal, he will also be God. And if he is made God by water and the Holy Spirit after the regeneration of the laver he is found to be also joint-heir with Christ after the resurrection from the dead.” (The Discourse on the Holy Theophany)
• Gregory of Nyssa (c. 335-395)
o "Since the God who was manifested infused Himself into perishable humanity for this purpose, viz. that by this communion with Deity mankind might at the same time be deified, for this end it is that, by dispensation of His grace, He disseminated Himself in every believer.” (The Great Catechism 37)
o "For just as He in Himself assimilated His own human nature to the power of the Godhead, being a part of the common nature, but not being subject to the inclination to sin which is in that nature (for it says: "He did no sin, nor was deceit found in his mouth), so, also, will He lead each person to union with the Godhead if they do nothing unworthy of union with the Divine.” (On Christian Perfection, p. 116)
• Augustine of Hippo (c. 354-430)
o "'For He hath given them power to become the sons of God.'[John 1:12] If we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods.” (Exposition on the Book of Psalms)
• Maximus the Confessor
o "Nothing in theosis is the product of human nature, for nature cannot comprehend God. It is only the mercy of God that has the capacity to endow theosis unto the existing... In theosis, man (the image of God) becomes likened to God, he rejoices in all the plenitude that does not belong to him by nature, because the grace of the Spirit triumphs within him, and because God acts in him."
o “God made us so that we might become partakers of the divine nature and sharers in His eternity, and so that we might come to be like Him through deification by grace.”
• Cyril of Alexandria
o "[H]e came down into our condition solely in order to lead us to his own divine state." (On the Unity of Christ. Pg.63)
o "It follows, therefore, that He Who Is, The One Who Exists, is necessarily born of the flesh, taking all that is ours into himself so that all that is born of the flesh, that is us corruptible and perishing human beings, might rest in him. In short, he took what was ours to be his very own so that we might have all that was his." (On the Unity of Christ. Pg. 59)
o "For we too are sons and gods by grace, and we have surely been brought to this wonderful and supernatural dignity since we have the Only Begotten Word of God dwelling within us.” (On the Unity of Christ. Pg.80)
• Gregory of Nazianzus
o implores humankind to "become gods for (God's) sake, since (God) became man for our sake.”
o Likewise, he argues that the mediator "pleads even now as Man for my salvation; for He continues to wear the Body which He assumed, until He make me God by the power of His Incarnation." (Orations 30.14 (NPNF2 7:315)
o "Through the medium of the mind he had dealings with the flesh, being made that God on earth, which is Man: Man and God blended. They became a single whole, the stronger side predominating, in order that I might be made God to the same extent that he was made man.” (On God and Christ: The Five Theological Orations and Two Letters to Cledonius.)
• Basil of Caesarea (330- 379 AD)
o stated that "becoming a god is the highest goal of all". (On The Spirit 9.23)
• Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274)
o “Now the gift of grace surpasses every capability of created nature, since it is nothing short of a partaking of the Divine Nature, which exceeds every other nature. And thus it is impossible that any creature should cause grace. For it is as necessary that God alone should deify, bestowing a partaking of the Divine Nature by a participated likeness, as it is impossible that anything save fire should enkindle.” ("First Part of the Second Part, Question 112, Article 1, Response", Summa Theologiae)
• Antony The Great (251-356)
o “God… has created all things that man may be saved and deified.” (On the Character of Men and on the Virtuous Life pg. 168)
@@scottb4509 There's that proof text that I was just talking about. You have to find me a consistent body of evidence of the early church fathers teaching that man can become Gods, like I can do with your prophets. Pulling quotes out of context mean nothing to any self-respecting seeker of truth, be them Mormon or Christian.
@@allieooop3923 The context is in the multiple comments by each one on the same topic. the point is that you can compare all their comments to get a better understanding of what they were meaning by their words. But ultimately the quotes you provide also do not necessarily contradict LDS doctrine either. We agree that with mere mortal eyes the glory and being of God cannot be seen, and that God is not made of materials we know of, and is for all intents and purposes invisible to us. and that His glory is indeed ineffable. However, there can be a difference found in the perspectives and understanding based on context. meaning that LDS doctrine understands God had a pre-God existence and therefore, our understanding of the nature of God is based on that premise. most antagonists or contenders against that idea almost inevitably conflate the two contexts as one in the same. while according to LDS doctrine they are wholly separate though correlative. In other words the Bible and almost all it's direct teachings deal with the context of this world only, from creation to judgement. Therefore, its' teachings should not expanded to take in other contexts or other worlds, or other existences. thus, since God became God, He has and will always be God, and that is the context which the Bible is written, But that doesn't mean that He has never existed in a context where He was not God, only that the Bible and this creation doesn't start till after He becomes God, thus in that context He has always been God.
So according to the finite understanding and context of Mainstream Christianity, LDS doctrine is for the most part in agreement with you, but LDS doctrine has an understanding of other contexts and other worlds, and other existences, where your understanding has none. Therefore, attempts to explain those other contexts and existence according to the more finite understand and perspective of Mainstream Christianity, is futile. Imagine all Mainstream Christian doctrines inside a circle, and then imagine that the LDS doctrines are in a bigger circle, which houses those Mainstream Christian doctrines. the understanding of that of the bigger circle incorporates and expounds upon that of the smaller circle. but the understanding of that of the smaller circle cannot grasp the understanding of that of the bigger circle.
scott banta Mr. Scott, I don’t want to be mean, I really want to hear you guys out. But what you just did is provide a bunch of sources of early church fathers on deification/theosis. Catholics and Orthodox, etc already believe in deification, just not as you understand it. When I meant context, I meant have you read the church fathers extensively, to come to a determination of what each of them believed individually, and what they mean when they use words like deification? I love all the quotes you just shared, but it just sounds like my Catholic early church fathers putting down heresies and proclaiming there’s one God alone, and that through his grace we can share in His eternal life. Not that we can become gods. That’s a pagan belief as far as I’m concerned
We increase and worship and adoration through personal relationship with Christ. On a daily basis. The relationship grows not power and might.
1 Corinthians 8:5 says there are Gods Many and Lords Many, but (as far as we are concerned) but for us there is but one God.
Great video.
The very idea of becoming God is the ultimate in Narcissism. Give me a break 🙄
Just curious if you ever desired to be a parent after seeing a profound parental example. I'm also curious, if you are a parent, if you strive to be a good example to your kids in hopes that they will one day be excellent parents as well.
@@DannyAGray taking on the unending and burdensome responsibility of parenthood is anything but selfish and narcissistic. it is one of the least selfish things a person or God could do. and if you do it well you become the example for others to follow. God is our example of a perfect Father, and He wishes us to follow that example.
@@scottb4509 I couldn't agree more with your statement on parenting.
XYU Just because the bible doesn't mention doesn't mean that it isn't true
@@chaseallen7499 the Bible doesn't mention a lot of things that are true.
Alright Evangelicals, the floor is yours! Not like you even need our permission! 🙂
Where to even begin...
Does God worship another god then?
wanrazul one could say God himself doesn’t even know of any other gods. Isaiah 43:10
@@BrendonKing So God isn't omniscient? Like the Greek and Roman gods?
@@wanrazul nope but he did have a father and a mother. and HE began life as child and grew up. and the rest is exaltation , if Christ becomes the Father it makes you wonder if GOD become something even more glorious, he still will receive glory from his children and that is never ending. It makes you think about the phrase in the BBile where you take on the his name. Just want a simple answer, if the lost ten tribes return, they say that some of them are not even known to us, what if they have their own scriptures and they do, are you going to accept them? I plan on cleaning up some room on my IPAD
My grandmother once looked at something in nature and said when she recreates her own world she would get rid of it because she doesn't like it 🙄 she is so convinced she gets her own world to recreate.
If we as imperfect humans, want our Children to have equal or more than us, What Perfect God would want less for his children on earth? God is PERFECT, he doesn't want SLAVES or SERVANTS. Any person lowering humans to have lesser opportunities than God himself, is DEMEANING God and judging him to think less of his children than we do of ours.
My question is does lds believe God was once a mortal man?
Absolutely
Why would a perfect being, intentionally create imperfect copies of Himself? Even after His own images and likeness? Why did God create flawed and foolish, living things and make them look just like He does? Why and what kind of god would do such a thing? What's would be the point or reason? Give me an answer.
The church website denies this fact. Obviously we have always been taught that but now the church is claiming that they have no idea where that doctrine came from and it isn’t true.
Continuing changes to make it platable to potential converts.
When God was a man, did someone have to atone for His sins? Were there other men walking around with Him? If so, did they become gods? Are there tons of other planets with the children of these gods walking around on them?
Honestly, we do not know. I suspect not for the first question, as Jesus said he only did what he saw the Father do. There is very little revealed on what happened before God created the universe.
I have asked this to missionaries several times, and the answer I always get is, "That's 'deep doctrine'".
@@joshuakruntorad5644 Well it is a matter of what has been revealed versus rational speculation. In all of LDS cannon, we only have two statements about Heavenly Father prior to the creation of our universe. One, the Jesus only did what he saw the Father do. The second, is that the Father gained a perfected physical body in the coarse of Eternal Progression before the pre-mortal existence of His children. Those are the only two facts we know, everything else is speculation.
Frankly, that is all we need to know at this stage in our progression. I am certain we will learn more in the Eternities, which is likely what the missionaries meant.
@@brettmajeske3525 The idea that God created the entire universe cannot be true. On earth each father has a father who has a father who has a father etc. In the eternal worlds every heavenly father has a heavenly father who has a heavenly father etc. Each of them has created worlds without number. Each has created a very small portion of the universe. The book Kolob theorem written by Lynn Hilton is excellent in explaining this idea more clearly. Someday, we as future exalted beings will be creating worlds without number also. It is breathtaking to contemplate!
@@clairvernon3031 that is certainly an interesting theory.
I don’t believe that we become gods
And you are more than welcome to believe that... it simply means that in the next life you will not be asked to become one yourself. and that is okay. I often say that none will accept as truth, that which they are not able and willing to abide. you if don't feel comfortable taking on the responsibilities (burdensome blessings) of God, than God will provide a place for you in His kingdom where you can take on the responsibilities and blessings that you are comfortable abiding and enjoying. That is the beauty of the all merciful and all encompassing plan of God.
@@joeoleary9010 No! Jesus specifically states that if there was another way to save humanity than Jesus asked if it could be done that other way, but that if Jesus dying was the only way then "Not my will but thine be done" Christ willingly laid down His life for the salvation of all. The father did not force it upon Him. The Father laid out the plan and how things had to happen for it to be accomplished and Jesus agreed to the carry out the plan. At this very hard and painful time, being crushed under the weight of all sin and pain, Jesus had a moment of weakness thinking that even being the divine Son of God He could not bear what was happening to Him. However, even in that moment of weakness Christ still reaffirms that He will do what ever is necessary according to the will of the Father.
Ultimately the Father could have saved Christ and those two could have lived eternally together, but all of humanity would have been lost. and they both knew and understood this to be the case. Therefore, for our sake the Father refrained from coming to His son's aid, and the Son submitted Himself to the wages of sin which we have placed upon Him. A burden only a sinless person could take on.
@@davidjanbaz7728 I think you are misunderstanding the doctrine on the topic. there will be many in the celestial kingdom living with God that DO NOT become a God like Him. They are made angels and live in God's presence, and have eternal life, but do not have the added, blessing/responsibility of eternal progression/exaltation. so while you are correct that the Telestial kingdom is in Heaven and is a place where blessings and glory are enjoyed, though lesser than that of either the Terrestrial and Celestial kingdoms, you are not correct on the levels of inheritance and glory had in those separate degrees or levels of heaven
Remember we still got till the Millennium to get all the blessings of God before the final judgement before everything is final which will be the case for those who didn't have the opportunity to receive all the blessings in this life.. So the best thing we can do is stay faithful to our covenants and build zion. That is the only way we can do it. There's no other way.
@@joeoleary9010 Because in the church we become heirs to all that the Father has when we make and keep those covenants with God our Father..
A God by nature has to be all knowing, all powerful, without beginning or end..... how can a human with beginning and ignorance ever be called a god?
Well, first of all we don't claim HE had a beginning. Second we believe HE created the universe, so HIS progression must have happened sometime before then.
@@brettmajeske3525 can you elaborate on “HIS progression...” I think I know what you are trying to say but I rather you clarify as to avoid misunderstanding.
@@danielaramburo7648 Your complaint is that an imperfect man can not become a god. LDS Theology does not claim Heavenly Father was ever an imperfect man, he was a man the same way that Jesus Christ was a man. The scriptural basis is in the Bible. Jesus said He only did what He saw the Father do. LDS interpret this to mean that before the creation of this universe, Heavenly Father was the Savior of the previous one. All that happen before the Creation, the Big Bang if you will.
We do believe in Eternal Progression, but know little about the circumstances before the current Creation.
A god doesn't have to be anything by nature. If I asked a ancient Roman or a Greek about there gods they wouldn't have described them as all powerful or all knowing
Muslims teach God is one, eternal and uncreated. Simple, understandable, and easy to grasp. This is what EVERY source in the Old Testament states and what all the oldest gospels of the New Testament state as well.
I say alhamdulilah for the blessings of Islam, and I pray that all people are guided to Truth 🤲
The are talking about how angels are saints and they made in gods likeness and we can become later day saints 😇
Does God the Father have a Father also?
My question exactly and then the next question would be so who was their God? When did it began? And why don’t we just worship that one, The actual creator?
Answer??? Who absolutely knows???
Just here for the Comments
Eternity is a long time. Eternal progression allows for the universe to be our playground. We inherate all that God has. But not everyone will attain Godhood.
Isaiah 43:10 utterly destroys this cults doctorine and for Lorenzo snows statement that God was once man, but God is the same yesterday, today, tomorrow which contridicts everything in mormonism. He never changes. He is just, faithful, loving and we can count on him to be the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Hebrews 13:6-8 says, “Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, 'Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.
When Jesus preached in the Mount, before he was crucified and resurrection:
Matthew 5:48 in The Bible
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
and after his resurrection, Jesus visited the Nephites. :
48 Therefore I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect. 3 Nephi 12:48 in The Book Of Mormon
Both are similar sermon, given by Jesus Christ.
In the Bible, he was a mortal being, and in the Book Of Mormon he was a resurrected being.
“....even as I, or your Father..”
@@davidjanbaz7728 and yet it was necessary for him to be baptized even though like John said "I have need to be baptized of thee" yet Jesus was Baptized to keep his Father's commandments. Jesus said "there is only one that is good" when someone called him good. Jesus has always gave glory to his Father not to himself. Jesus thought us to be one even as he and the Father are one. We obviously can not be the same person but we can all be one in purpose even as Jesus and Heavenly Father are one in purpose. They are not the same person but they are United. There is a way for us to United. We can be United in Christ. I believe in Jesus just as much as you do David. Open your eyes and see that we must unit in a comen good. We don't have to bash each other. Jesus thought in love not cruel words. We can do the same.
@@davidjanbaz7728 every things Jesus did on earth was perfect 👌 the knowledge he had are perfect because he is the son of God but his body it wasn't perfect because he had a physical body, he wasn't incarnate here on earth I don't believe that. If he was incarnate why he say father if thy will let this cup remove from me, why did he say that and why did angels came and help him while on the cross? Because Jesus had a physical body he can feel the pain like anybody else here on earth not until he was resurrected from the death his body and his spirit reunited again in a glorified immortal body and that is what you call perfect like his father in heaven. Why didn't Jesus spirit go straight to his father in heaven while his body was in the tomb? Because you need to be perfect . Perfect is your spirit and your body reunited again in a glorified immortal form like God had. God had a perfect body and his Beloved Son Christ also . They not spirit. Read Act 7: 55-56. Stephen saw God the father and his son Jesus Christ standing on the right hand of God. Both father and the son had a glorified immortal bodies ( perfect 👌) .
Only the married groups can possibly become gods. If you are single and unmarried in this life, you will be serving angles in heaven and labor for eternity...well, why Jesus became God, and he didn’t get married? As well as Paul and Danial and many in the Bible?
We don't know the marital status of the Savior, he could have been married. The Gospels are silent on the issue. Most Biblical scholars do believe that Paul was married, at least at one point.
More importantly, your explanation of LDS Doctrine is flawed. Many modern Prophets have taught that those who were denied the opportunity in this life to marry will get another opportunity in the next life.
@@brettmajeske3525Mark 12:25, ""For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." Everyone needs to be married and sealed on earth so that their marriage can be eternal in the celestial kingdom according to the LDS church. To know if those saints’ marriage status, prophets can simply ask God for answers since the church claims that it has the true authority from God, just like Joseph Smith knew God was a mortal man once exalted to be God (and the Bible has none detail about this).
@@ZDLsunny LDS Doctrine does not teach that revelation is like a Celestial google search. Somethings, while interesting, are not necessary to know. During the millennium, those who remained unmarried through no fault of their own will have the opportunity for proxy work to be done on their behalf, prior to their resurrection. That is what we need to know.
There are many members of the LDS Church who speculate that Jesus might have been married to Mary Madeline. A speculation that has popped up several times among other Christian groups as well. In the end it is not something the Lord felt necessary to share.
@@brettmajeske3525 Hope you realize that not all can get the proxy work done before their resurrection, lots of them die at very young age. Can a 10 year old gets a proxy marriage? and how about those miscarried babies?
The marriage status of Jesus is necessary because he was the best example to us on earth. If marriage is so crucial in gaining exaltation, then it is an important part of the gospel as well. Because without marriage, no one can be exalted to gods including Jesus.
@@ZDLsunny I feel I am going around in circles. Everyone, no matter their mortal circumstance, who did not have the opportunity in this life will be provided the opportunity in the next. The whole point of the Millennium is to get everyone's proxy work done before their resurrection.
The four Gospels only cover about a 3 year period of the Savior's mortal ministry. We really do not know much of what happened in His life between the ages of 12 and 30. There is no reason to believe He wasn't married except oral tradition. I am not sure what more you expect.
God set His only begotten Son to become a man and die as a man at the hands of man. The Son of God who is equal with God died taking all the son of the world on Hisself so that we who are sinners could be redeemed through His blood. Christ died and was buried and after three days and nights He was resurrected. He is now seated next to the Father in glory on our behalf. Through God's Holy Spirit and Christ's sacrifice man can now become like Christ who is God. We will be like the angels but we are also going to be co-heirs with Christ.
Now I’m confused. Alma 22:9-11 and John 4:24 state God is Spirit but Ether 3:9 and D&C 130:22 say he is of flesh and blood. Which is it?
Not asking in any malicious sense but just would like clarification
In ether, Christ is taking upon the sins of the world. Flesh and blood is kinda like sins, disease, pain and stuff. When it talks about "God is spirit" or "God is a spirit" it means he's pure. It also says in John that God is Love and God is Fire. God is not literally Love or literally Fire. God is pure, powerful, and full of love and Grace. D&C explains how the son and the father have body's of flesh and bone...no blood. And the spirit does not have a body..yet.
Well, from a LDS perspective we teach that the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit, Heavenly Father is a personage of Flesh, Bone, and Spirit, Jesus was Spirit before his birth, and like Heavenly Father currently. So, both? In Alma and Ether Jesus had not yet been born but were looking forward to his birth. Even when possessed of a body he did not lose his spiritual aspects; the two are not mutually exclusive.
This is actually blasphemy, no one can reach Godhood. You can be like God in character, which your scriptures you quoted refer to, we do have His righteousness by believing in Him, but you will never reach the glory that God has. For one thing God and Jesus was never created, you were, those who are created will never be Gods. John 4:24 God is spirit. Isaiah 43:10 Ye may know and believe in me and understand that I am He, before Me, there was no God found neither will there be after Me. Your religion is a polytheistic religion, taken from the Freemason pagan religion, you should never claim you are a Christian, for that is a lie.
Why do you use the patristic fathers when you feel they were in a heretical church?
Go ask your nearby orthodoxs do they believe theosis as the way you believe it? Theosis doesnt teach that a man can become god as in the same essence but u do!
I think it depends on what god you worship in your ❤️ if you understand this doctrine or not.
Lol u worship the devil
What does doctrines and covenants section 132 mean
It basically pertains to the covenant of marriage with certain laws to how plural marriage is to be done. It’s funny, those against the church despise its history of polygamy while applauding tiger king and the literal poly amorous cults that are depicted. 😂
James Faulkner. I assume you are asking about verses 18-21 or there abouts. That is what we mean. Some liars try to frame it as if we believe we will overthrow God. Jesus Christ will be our God forever without end. Those who completely fulfill the Plan of Salvation will have all power...
@@Hamann9631 ok
Who is the mother? Out of the heavenly parents..
And does that mean from these beliefs, God will change. Christ could become the God, and then people wil worship him and he’ll have a son etc etc? And when does that happen? The entirety of our world has only known this God and Christ. But when you get to heaven, wha about Gods father and his father and so on and so on, what happens to them? Does that mean they are all in heaven?
So ultimately, there had to be a first? Who is that first? Ultimately someone began all this. If God was once human and through exaltation became a diving being, who first created all the spiritual beings?
I’m just really curious to all these questions.
Why does there have to be a first? The scriptures say God is without beginning of days or end of years. Doesn't seem to claim beginnings are required.
The idea that we can become Gods originated in heaven, before the dawn of time, when satan simply believed in his heart that he could become a God, like the Most High (Isaiah 14: 12-15) KJV. Just the thought itself was so foul and offensive to a jealous God (Isaiah 34:14) KJV, that satan was cast down from heaven.
Christians call it "THE BIG LIE", because the deception transcended the heavens to the earth, where, in the Garden, satan seduced the woman to disobey God and eat of the forbidden fruit, promising her she could become as Gods (Genesis 3 : 3-5) KJV.
Satan is the father of lies. He cannot speak the truth, for the truth is not in him (John 8 : 44) KJV. Satan spoke (lied) to the woman by convincing her she could become a God. The arrogance and innate pride of humans to own and rule their own worlds and kingdoms is almost an addiction. Satan is aware. In (Matthew 4: 8-9) KJV, while testing Jesus in the wilderness, satan offers Jesus all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, if He would fall down and worship Him. Jesus did not fall for his lies.
God is clear in (Isaiah 43:10) KJV " ...before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." There are 33 more verses in the KJV that confirm this truth. Satan says we can become Gods ourselves; God has called satan a liar when he speaks. Whom shall we believe?
this makes a lot of sense. more sens than the doctrine that man is just a creature of god, ex nihilo
Thank for your insight.
Best explanation ever.
I’ve never been this early to anything!
I like the content but man the add ins are so distracting.
There has to be a first God. Why not worship Him? In reality though there’s only ONE God, He was never born, He will never die, and He was never a human. To believe that we can become like God, who is completely unlike anything else in creation, is pure arrogance in my opinion.
This came right out of Satan's mouth in Genesis 3. 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Not surprised that the Mormons believe this.
I have a question: how do people of LDS faith interpret the atonement of Jesus? Aka when and how did atonement occur? How is there now forgiveness of sins?
Stutter Studios As used in the scriptures, to atone is to suffer the penalty for sins, thereby removing the effects of sin from the repentant sinner and allowing him or her to be reconciled to God. Jesus Christ was the only one capable of carrying out the Atonement for all mankind. Because of His Atonement, all people will be resurrected, and those who obey His gospel will receive the gift of eternal life with God.
As descendants of Adam and Eve, all people inherit the effects of the Fall. In our fallen state, we are subject to opposition and temptation. When we give in to temptation, we are alienated from God, and if we continue in sin, we experience spiritual death, being separated from His presence. We are all subject to temporal death, which is the death of the physical body (see Alma 42:6-9; Doctrine and Covenants 29:41-42).
The only way for us to be saved is for someone else to rescue us. We need someone who can satisfy the demands of justice-standing in our place to assume the burden of the Fall and to pay the price for our sins. Jesus Christ has always been the only one capable of making such a sacrifice.
From before the Creation of the earth, the Savior has been our only hope for “peace in this world, and eternal life in the world to come” (Doctrine and Covenants 59:23).
Only He had the power to lay down His life and take it up again. From His mortal mother, Mary, He inherited the ability to die. From His immortal Father, He inherited the power to overcome death. He declared, “As the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself” (John 5:26).
Only He could redeem us from our sins. God the Father gave Him this power (see Helaman 5:11). The Savior was able to receive this power and carry out the Atonement because He kept Himself free from sin: “He suffered temptations but gave no heed unto them” (Doctrine and Covenants 20:22). Having lived a perfect, sinless life, He was free from the demands of justice. Because He had the power of redemption and because He had no debt to justice, he could pay the debt for those who repent.
Jesus’s atoning sacrifice took place in the Garden of Gethsemane and on the cross at Calvary. In Gethsemane He submitted to the will of the Father and began to take upon Himself the sins of all people. He has revealed some of what He experienced as He paid the price for our sins:
“I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;
“But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;
“Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit-and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink-
“Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men” (Doctrine and Covenants 19:16-19; see also Luke 22:44; Mosiah 3:7).
The Savior continued to suffer for our sins when He allowed Himself to be crucified-“lifted up upon the cross and slain for the sins of the world” (1 Nephi 11:33).
On the cross, He allowed Himself to die. His body was then laid in a tomb until He was resurrected and became “the firstfruits of them that slept” (1 Corinthians 15:20). Through His death and Resurrection, He overcame physical death for us all.
Jesus Christ redeems all people from the effects of the Fall. All people who have ever lived on the earth and who ever will live on the earth will be resurrected and brought back into the presence of God to be judged (see 2 Nephi 2:5-10; Helaman 14:15-17). Through the Savior’s gift of mercy and redeeming grace, we will all receive the gift of immortality and live forever in glorified, resurrected bodies.
Although we are redeemed unconditionally from the universal effects of the Fall, we are accountable for our own sins. But we can be forgiven and cleansed from the stain of sin if we “apply the atoning blood of Christ” (Mosiah 4:2). We must exercise faith in Jesus Christ, repent, be baptized for the remission of sins, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
timneji ok so you wrote a lot of good stuff in there! I agree surface level with most things you stated, although as a Catholic, we believe Mary was without sin, so she was assumed into heaven, didn’t die. So for fact that Jesus died, he took all the sin of the world upon himself and died for our sins.
I know you mentioned it was in the Garden and on the cross, but you spoke slightly more on the Garden’s significance, rather than at Calvary. Was this intentional? Also, who is Jesus Christ? I know my sins are covered if I make things right with God, as I alone sin against him. If I sin against the God, God’s son can’t cover my sin unless He himself is also my God. None of this proxy stuff will satisfy. Thanks! 🙏🏼💯
Stutter Studios my text was a Copy of the official Church Doctrine, because everything else is personal interpretation. So as the following will be just my personal interpretation: I believe that Jesus is the son of our Heavenly Father. He is one with him in all he do but he is his son and not the father himself. We believe that Christ has the power because he was without Sin to take all sins on him. He is the Sheep that was slaughtered for us. If you like I can try to find official Church Doctrine for this topic as well.
Stutter Studios As we commemorate the birth of Jesus Christ two millennia ago, we offer our testimony of the reality of His matchless life and the infinite virtue of His great atoning sacrifice. None other has had so profound an influence upon all who have lived and will yet live upon the earth.
He was the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament, the Messiah of the New. Under the direction of His Father, He was the creator of the earth. “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made” (John 1:3). Though sinless, He was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. He “went about doing good” (Acts 10:38), yet was despised for it. His gospel was a message of peace and goodwill. He entreated all to follow His example. He walked the roads of Palestine, healing the sick, causing the blind to see, and raising the dead. He taught the truths of eternity, the reality of our premortal existence, the purpose of our life on earth, and the potential for the sons and daughters of God in the life to come.
He instituted the sacrament as a reminder of His great atoning sacrifice. He was arrested and condemned on spurious charges, convicted to satisfy a mob, and sentenced to die on Calvary’s cross. He gave His life to atone for the sins of all mankind. His was a great vicarious gift in behalf of all who would ever live upon the earth.
We solemnly testify that His life, which is central to all human history, neither began in Bethlehem nor concluded on Calvary. He was the Firstborn of the Father, the Only Begotten Son in the flesh, the Redeemer of the world.
He rose from the grave to “become the firstfruits of them that slept” (1 Corinthians 15:20). As Risen Lord, He visited among those He had loved in life. He also ministered among His “other sheep” (John 10:16) in ancient America. In the modern world, He and His Father appeared to the boy Joseph Smith, ushering in the long-promised “dispensation of the fulness of times” (Ephesians 1:10).
Of the Living Christ, the Prophet Joseph wrote: “His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
“I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father” (D&C 110:3-4).
Of Him the Prophet also declared: “And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!
“For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father-
“That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God” (D&C 76:22-24).
We declare in words of solemnity that His priesthood and His Church have been restored upon the earth-“built upon the foundation of … apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone” (Ephesians 2:20).
We testify that He will someday return to earth. “And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together” (Isaiah 40:5). He will rule as King of Kings and reign as Lord of Lords, and every knee shall bend and every tongue shall speak in worship before Him. Each of us will stand to be judged of Him according to our works and the desires of our hearts.
We bear testimony, as His duly ordained Apostles-that Jesus is the Living Christ, the immortal Son of God. He is the great King Immanuel, who stands today on the right hand of His Father. He is the light, the life, and the hope of the world. His way is the path that leads to happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come. God be thanked for the matchless gift of His divine Son.
timneji ok thanks though, as I do appreciate learning! My issue is that if I sin against God, only He alone can atone for my sins. I know you believe the son is like the father, and they have one will, but I need God’s blood to cover my sin. Nothing else will suffice. If Jesus is my spirit brother, then my sin isn’t covered, because I need my God to cleanse me of my sin, through His atoning death. Thanks again!
These Gods exist and walk amongst us: They are known as CEO’$ of Utah County Multi-Level Marketing Firms. Let us all Bow and Worship them 😇
One God. Then many gods with "the same nature." Monotheism turns to polytheistic beliefs, and with multiple gods comes idolatry.
Satan wanted to be above God. Adam and Eve ate the fruit in the pretense they would be as God. And God punished them all.
Psychology presents us with the validity effect. The more frequently you are exposed to an idea, the more conditioned you become not to challenge the idea. I have to wonder if any Mormon who believes in ascension to Godhood (again, multiple gods, idolatry) is cognitively capable of objective reasoning.
Can you do an episode about God was human and became God. I would like to see church teaching about it
You can read about it in the Holy Bible. “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… and the Word became flesh”. 💕☀️