The closest thing to a boss monster I can think of are big, flashy planeswalkers. While big monsters tend to end the game too quickly, or be absolutely underwhelming, a big planeswaller can be a powerful threat that wins over time as opposed to immediately, and can form the centerpiece of a deck.
@@MechanicusTV They have the same issue as other expensive, powerful cards. Either they are like emerkul and win the game, or the more forgettable ones just underwhelming. Not to say that they're not bosses, just that they feel different to me specifically than an appo or a baron.
Wouldn't it be arguable that boss monsters in MtG are just generally more generic than YGO? MtG isn't a stranger to deck strategies that build around a singular creature or card like putting down Amalia and using Explore triggers to board wipe or searching out specifically something like Blightsteel to swing for an almost instant win or summoning / cheating one of the many Eldrazi and oppressing the board so much that you win no matter what. It's not that boss monsters don't exist in MtG, it's that they're not as integral to the deck building concept as they are in YGO.
I'm inclined to agree. I pretty much exclusively play commander, but even there my commander isn't always the main reason someone loses or the game ends. I usually need a few pieces and in a lot of games my other creatures in the deck pull a lot of weight or end up being more integral to victory than the card the deck is technically built around. I think it's more down to the game speeds and the way yugioh is constructed vs the way magic is constructed. Magic has a lot of big strong nasty creatures you can use to cause pain, but between the resource system and slower pace it's more likely that either an answer comes out or you might need more to clench the win. Meanwhile with my more limited experience with modern yugioh, my boss monster is there to say out me, play around me, or die. I've actually managed some scary things despite playing a relatively weak archetype and all my boss monster really does is say "once per turn, someone picks up something and either puts it in their hand or back in the murder stack" and can only do that twice before he's completely out of gas and needs to be remade.
no, logs here gave the wrong idea in this video that a boss monster is restricted to archetypes in yugioh when its anything but, though the sentiment remains in fact 1 of yugioh’s biggest problems is other decks using another deck’s boss monster better then them like how VFD got itself banned because virtual world deck were summoning it faster and easier then intended in its actual archetype, red dragon archfiend king calamity got itself banned because of centur-ion abusing it in ways it was never intended to be used as the final straw that broke the camel’s back as this has already happen prior in another completely different archetype and everyone’s favorite synchro monster baronne de fleur… most people dont even realize it is a part of an archetype at all because of how irrelevant that is and simply see it as the de facto lvl 10 synchro monster yugioh has enough of a critical mass of generic boss monster that many people is clamoring for them to actually be locked to archetypes that konami has actually started banning some of them since last year
@@YukiFubuki.Only in tcg, you know that the solution of that is making in archetype boss monster stronger than the generic ones, like phantom of yubel. The generic ones are meant for weaker deck that need them, which means banning them is against the actual direction of the game which made for ocg format.
To add: The commander is not always considered the 'Boss' since some decks only use the cmdr. for the color identity, as a enabler or as a 'Bait' to the real cmdr. (the true card the deck is built around)
No it's just not. Commanders usually aren't like Chaos Emperor Dragon Envoy of the End. Emrakul the Aeons Torn is like Chaos Emperor Dragon Envoy of the End.
One could argue this is part of why people enjoy the Commander format of MTG so much. Basically, your commander is "the boss" as the deck is built around it and what the 99/98 allows you to do becomes more dependent on what your "boss" can do for you and no matter what your opponents do it's the one/two card(s) that you always have access to.
One reason i think is how monsters and combat work differently in the two games. In Yugioh 1 Blues Eyes 3000 atk 2500 def could hold off an infinite number of Summoned Skull 2500 atk 1200 def. The attack stat when Blu eyes is in attack mode is all that matters. Also each Skull has to attack through Blu eyes. Im MTG Blu eyes would be a 6/5 facing off a S. Skull thats a 5/3. Blu eyes' defense, in this case toughness, matters as each Skull can trade with them. Now having just a couple more Skulls on the field puts massive pressure on the Blu eyes player. Yugioh allows you to ride one big creature to glory, MTG has had very few creatures that you cloud plop down and then procede to take them from 20 to 0.
A thing to mention about Magic's "combo" decks: In Yu Gi Oh the equivalent would be FTKs. And they are called FTKs because they literally win in the first turn, due to the different speed of the game. These decks are almost always banned or restricted, because it's something that neither Konami nor the players want to deal with
To be completely honest, I did end up getting into YuGiOh way more than MtG because of the monsters. Having something like Ultimate Conductor Tyranno or Thunder Dragon Colossus and building decks around them is pretty cool. Seeing a cool monster and building a deck around them, meta or not, is the big appeal of YuGiOh to me. Although I am slightly miffed that Master Duel banned Number 86 soon after I made a deck for it but hey.
I argue that magic cards do have an equivalent of cards referencing cards by partial name: the card type. It's perfectly normal to say "Target goblin gains flying until end of turn" in MTG, because goblin is a card type. Yugioh tried to do that, but they've mostly given up on it.
I was thinking the same but specifically the more insular ones like slivers. Unlike goblins, who change drastically from plane to plane, slivers have always had ONE game plan. Amass enough slivers on board that their shared abilities good stuff their way to victory. Meanwhile goblins might go tall, wide, aristocrats, etc. to win.
the closest Magic comes to flirting with Boss monster design is sets that introduce a new supported Kindred type for the limited environment and out of the lack of playables, you jsut throw it all into your Gishath, Sun's Avatar deck in 2018 and cross your fingers that you're not about to start the table breaking out in meme when you have to cast colossal dreadmaw.
Well, to be short... we kinda have that in MtG. Pretty much anything above 5 mana might be considered a Boss monster. Trying to deal with Progenitus or Emrakul? Its probably harder than dealing with most yugioh- Bossmonster. Even Yugioh-mechanics like Contact Fusion (chimeras), or special summoning the Bossmonster from your Deck (Spirit of the Night summoned through the three nightstalkers) has already existed in Mirage in 1996 (before the Yugioh cardgame even existed, they got the Copyright that year). And in the very first years of magic, Shivan dragons, Serra Angels or Sengir Vampires clearly had Iconic Boss-Monster energy. MtG-Cards are just less overhyped because there is no Anime to it.
Technically true but they just don't really feel THAT special, at least nowadays. Like they are "special" yet common. Not sure if this makes sense but that's how i feel lol
@ZEDEX252 well nowadays they do because wotc decided that they would try to get commander players more interested in packs if they just made 20 legendaries a set rather than 2 lol
Well technically a boss monster can be any big dude that is very hard to dealt with in certain decks. Like Dragoon was a Generic boss mosnter for example or Zeus is "kindof" a boss monster. We have some cards like that in magic but we dont use the term because our monsters are not as "hard to dealt with" like they are mean to be in YGO they are just big guys with great effects that are better if they sticky on board for 1 more turn of value or two.
Even if i slam ur-dragon or eldrazi it just doesn't reach that oomph like a boss monster in yugioh has. It feels like i just put yet another creature but this one's bigger
The mentality is definitely different. Magic's mana system bends removal to the question of "is this scary enough that I need to get rid of now." With YGO, "removal" is either a stifle effect that negates a tutor to disrupt the value train, a specific type of removal that gets around a boss monster's protections like using an effect to sacrifice it for your own summon, or forcing your opponent to banish it, or the classic board wipe if the meta's boss monsters don't have powerful death effects or Indestructible.
There are certainly cards that could count as boss monsters in MtG even if they are rare. I would say both Ormendahls or Withengar always felt fery yugioh-esque to me in their design - absurdly powerful, but only when you fully commit to their gameplay, and if we dilude the definition a bit, I would say cards like Tovolar, Bloodline Keeper or Voldaren pariah could count as well.
Constructed play, besides commander, in magic is rarely so centered on cards printed specifically to form a certain deck it seems. Limited I think gets much closer to having “boss monsters” than anything else because decks are usually centered around the best cards you open and what archetype printed into the set they best enable
The closest thing to boss monsters in Magic I can think of was "champion a [thing]", but even then those cards only require you to play a certain type, and didn't require you to go all-in
Sometimes, but not always. Some people have commanders that are just value machines or combo enablers, and some players don't even use the commander for anything more than the colors it provides.
I personally think that the prevalence of Boss monsters and Archetypes are intrinsically linked. If you limit deck design to only function with a certain group of buddies, and one of those buddies is quite clearly **the boss** , then of course that boss is going to see a lot of play. There are a few points that allude to this in both the video and the comments, but it’s not as if magic is **without** set-defining creatures. The Elder Dragons from Tarkir, the Eldrazi Titans, the Gods of Theros and Amonket, to name a few. But you’re not obligated to play them, and sometimes, playing them in the groups that they represent in lore is a handicap.
This makes no sense when we have characters like Nicol Bolas, Ugin, Urza, the three Eldrazi, the Phyrexian Praetors, Guild leaders and several different faction leaders across the planes of MtG. In spell slinger decks and combo decks, your still have pivotal cards that apply significant change in the game. Midrange has their bread and butter, but you'll still have some bigger bodies that you'll invest in to outscale the opponent's board. Additionally, bosses in MtG see variations due to the progression of time.
It does. Every card game does, Yugioh just has a show that it draws from to emphasize which ones are "important", but I'm pretty sure nobody will argue that things like the Eldrazi or Nico Bolas aren't
@@YukiFubuki. I think you are being obtuse on purpose. yugioh originally stemmed from from decks being centered around characters and their boss monster in the manga and show, and with time this is seeped into archetype design so that most archetypes have a "boss" that either is the payoff or further enables it.
@@YukiFubuki. It actually does, you forget its an japanese card game and anime series. We just didn't get the last 2 due to them not being confident it'll preform decently over here. That said, they're actively going out of their way to print more Blue-Eyes, Exodia, Yubel, and Metal Morph support so they clearly do intend to draw from the shows
@@ashemabahumat4173 rush duel is essentially a differnt game though and there has been more archetypes within the last couple years that has nothing to do with the anime
@@naiustheyetti sure but that doesnt change how that the last couple years has saw many more major archetypes and meta decks that has nothing to do with the anime
By all appearances from where I'm sitting, MtG doesn't have boss monsters because the boss monsters tend to get banned. :P See: Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis
WAT!?! no boss monsters? Have u not seen big creatures like "kozilek, the butcher of truth" "Ulamog, the lost gyre", "Emrakul, the aeons torn", "Iona, shield of emeria", "Progenitus", "Jin-Gitaxias, Progress Tyrant", "Sheoldred, the whispering one", Or even just a "Stormtide Leviathan"
modern yugioh bossmonster: needing multiple different cards to combo into a big monster. magics technically "boss monsters" are just single cards that have high mana costs and therefore time gated. (lets not talk about vintage first turn 8mana creature combos or stuff...)
So in a nutshell, monsters/creatures are far more important to one game than the other. "Small" monsters in Yugioh are usually going to either be interaction of some kind, like hand traps, or combo starters/pieces to try and help you get to the big monsters you want to bring out. I'm not saying small creatures in Magic aren't important, but they serve a very different purpose, and it's not to get that person to a 15/15 Eldrazi or something.
Magic ABSOLUTELY has boss monsters. You're telling me you look at a card like Sauron or Void Winnower and the board doesnt revolve around them until they get removed? And besides, anything that pushes you to win the game is a boss - Trident and Transcendent Dragion don't stop being the Tenpai bosses just because they only sticks around for a few seconds before the duel is won. That makes any board piece that enables a combo a boss, too, like Nadu.
It's not that MtG doesn't have boss monsters, its just YGO has Good monsters, and Monsters that are Mana with extra steps. Most monsters are just mechanical permission to play the actually impactful things, they're mana with extra steps.
Hum I'm not sure I'd say boss monsters are hard to summon. They could have been 15 years ago but modern yugioh facilitates boss monster sumoning in basically one turn.
Without having watched the video yet and having dabbled into Master Duel for about a month now my guess would be because Magic has way more and way stronger spot removal available, rendering any big scary monster useless unless it has a crazy etb effect or hexproof. Yugioh Boss Monsters on top of that also often have inbuilt protection either from battle or card effects or sometimes both. So really, removal in magic is too good and creatures too easy too remove at the moment.
nah a lot of the more recent boss monsters that debuted the last couple years dont have protection but simply retaliatory abilities or forms of recursion instead making them much more harder to get rid of or you dont want to get rid of them immediately because of the backlash to the game state it can cause
"Magic has way more and way stronger spot removal available" completly wrong. There is nothing more common than removal in YUGIOH that's why boss monsters, usually tribute one were considered bad until they added protection way later in the life of the game. If you tried to summon a blue eyes back in the days it just die to a miror force, sakuretsu armor or any other battle trap, might even get it stolen by a snatch steal. That never stopped casual from trying to use them.
True, but who actually played fusions back then outside of Magical Scientist FTK or cheating them out with the likes of Cyber-Stein or Instant Fusion or Future Fusion?
@@assasin096 Heros players, which a lot of casual liked because of jaden, cyber dragon/machine were the strongest type for years and played the extra deck. Fusion were played a bit in gx and a lot on a casual level because fusion are cool
I think Nadu is the total opposite. He wasn't the thing you ended your turn with. He was a combo piece that made you get all your lands out. That's not really the same thing.
Removal are insanely common in Yugioh too, the reason is most likely that peoples want to use big monster like the manga/anime, boss monsters were considered bad in yugioh until they added tons of protection, didnt stopped casual from playing them, even if it get popped by sakuretsu armor, miror force or any battle traps
So, to answer your question, "Magic doesn't have boss monsters, because the term boss monster is subjective and no one chooses to use it when playing magic". Probably because it's dumb. Lots of decks are focused around a single big ass monster with a game breaking mechanic. Your fault if you don't count them as "boss monsters".
because it does? what have you been smoking eldrazzi, progenitus, arguably phyrexians are villains not monsters but i'd sttill count them as bosses.... there are a lot... gearhulks.... i can go on for a dozen cycles or so of boss level monsters
far from it, 1 of yugioh’s biggest problem atm is how generic and accessible practically everything is that people actually want for “parasitic design” just so anything that came before or after isnt synergistic all the time
the reason that boss monsters dont exist in mtg is because you have chosen a definition where they do not exist in MTG. If you use archetype to define it, of course they dont exist. MTG doesn't have archetypes. if you instead define it by a card that the deck revolves around, then yes, MTG decks have boss monsters. Commander decks are the prime example, but other things exist
Ygo also doesn't have aggro as a strategy option since you can't attack directly as easily as in Mtg. If there is a higher attack monster on the other side you have to kill it to deal life point damage whilst Mtg can ignore the big creature with attacking in big numbers
This probably the biggest reason why there aren't "boss monsters" so much in magic. A big flashy creature in magic might be threatening and imposing, but not as much in Yu-Gi-Oh where you HAVE to deal with it before you can attack your opponent. A single big monster can block out your whole board in Yu-Gi-Oh unlike magic where if you have more creatures than your opponent, you can at least hurt them
"Blind Second" decks like Cyberpunk Dragon, Trains, or more recently Tenpai are YGO's 'Aggro' decks. Rather than playing the game by trying to go first, establish tempo via disruption, and so on, you just let the other guy go first, play any of a number of powerful board-breakers, then hope you can deal 8000 damage before the other guy can stop you. Trains, for example, just blast the board and then try to deal 2000 burn, 2000 burn, and then attack for 4000. Tenpai are notorious for being able to deal 16,000+ damage to get through the half-damage downside of Prosperity, while being impossible to interact with.
eh, I'd say we have aggro we just call them going second deck bc they deliberately go second to win in the first battle phase of the game. Tenpai and Ancient Gear are examples of this
@@balisticemerald8512 There are no real resources in ygo so you cannot really truly outpace an opponent like in Mtg where you play cheap cards one after another early game as aggro. There is no cheap cards in ygo only if you can use it now or not. Also isn't winning first battle phase good players just do as a side strategy?
you could argue, that the fusion deck was removed, and the extra deck was added, therefore synchro was the first type for that extra deck. but that would just be a argument about wording.
MTG don't have boss monsters? Tell me you've never played MTG before without telling me. If you don't understand how this is very wrong point, just tell me what does Green Mana do again? What is the whole point of Green? To Ramp and Summon Boss creatures. Even Blue literally has Hullbreaker Horror a massive Kraken that wins game as soon on field pretty much. Also need I mention Eldrazi... Seeing this video in my feed did make me laugh what an absurd idea that MTG don't have boss monsters.
magic totally has boss monsters wtf? more than yugioh Emrakul is totally the boss of all boss mosnters of all games. theres tons of huge ass dragons and crazy hard to summon rainbow cards. EDH is all about summoning your big ass boss monsters. yugioh doesnt even have something like that
Very bizarre video...I mean, it's really well-analyzed, but it's not entirely correct? You're operating off of a flawed premise about the lack of boss monsters in Magic. That is not entirely true, because Commander exists. Which, as your channel shows, you are very familiar with. And the Commander(s) of your deck are the centerpiece, engine, endgame, or identity of your deck. And with Commander being the most popular and played format, I find this while video to be very bizarre for neglecting this. And to further drive home how Commanders are boss monsters, look no further than to Universes Beyond-Lord of the Rings, Transformers, Street Fighter, Dr. Who, Tomb Raider, Assassins Creed, Final Fantasy, Marvel Comics, etc. all these iconic franchises and characters-all designed yo be your Commanders and boss monsters now.
Boss Monsters in Magic are what you get back with Reanimator Masticore Morphling Akroma Angel of Wrath Inkwell Leviathan Emrakul the Aeons Torn Griselbrand Siege Rhino Saying Magic doesn't have boss monsters is just incorrect. That's like saying it doesn't have Energy.
I would add Elesh Norn to your list and every single one of those creatures are not played anymore in reanimator decks. Maybe only Griselbrand... Don't you just love power creep? :/
I'm a magic player who lives in a country where we have 15 players in the city, capital city for a second. Magic is a great game with wonderful arts (except the first ten years of the sets, they are ugly). We are very serious people 🤣 and you want to teach us a card game based on Chinese cartoons🤣 Thank you, but I will wait for one of your great videos about the real tcg game, not this bad copy🤣🤣🤣 It's all just a joke, except the beginning and my humble opinion about early years of art in MTG🤣 bazinga!
The closest thing to a boss monster I can think of are big, flashy planeswalkers. While big monsters tend to end the game too quickly, or be absolutely underwhelming, a big planeswaller can be a powerful threat that wins over time as opposed to immediately, and can form the centerpiece of a deck.
eldrazzi
@@MechanicusTV They have the same issue as other expensive, powerful cards. Either they are like emerkul and win the game, or the more forgettable ones just underwhelming.
Not to say that they're not bosses, just that they feel different to me specifically than an appo or a baron.
"If you're a Magic player who hangs out with people-"
Is that legal, can they do that?
i'm not playing card games to play against other *people* , what is this blasphemy
real magic players play against themselves
Magic the Gathering.
Gathering.
Wouldn't it be arguable that boss monsters in MtG are just generally more generic than YGO? MtG isn't a stranger to deck strategies that build around a singular creature or card like putting down Amalia and using Explore triggers to board wipe or searching out specifically something like Blightsteel to swing for an almost instant win or summoning / cheating one of the many Eldrazi and oppressing the board so much that you win no matter what.
It's not that boss monsters don't exist in MtG, it's that they're not as integral to the deck building concept as they are in YGO.
I'm inclined to agree. I pretty much exclusively play commander, but even there my commander isn't always the main reason someone loses or the game ends. I usually need a few pieces and in a lot of games my other creatures in the deck pull a lot of weight or end up being more integral to victory than the card the deck is technically built around.
I think it's more down to the game speeds and the way yugioh is constructed vs the way magic is constructed. Magic has a lot of big strong nasty creatures you can use to cause pain, but between the resource system and slower pace it's more likely that either an answer comes out or you might need more to clench the win.
Meanwhile with my more limited experience with modern yugioh, my boss monster is there to say out me, play around me, or die. I've actually managed some scary things despite playing a relatively weak archetype and all my boss monster really does is say "once per turn, someone picks up something and either puts it in their hand or back in the murder stack" and can only do that twice before he's completely out of gas and needs to be remade.
no, logs here gave the wrong idea in this video that a boss monster is restricted to archetypes in yugioh when its anything but, though the sentiment remains
in fact 1 of yugioh’s biggest problems is other decks using another deck’s boss monster better then them like how VFD got itself banned because virtual world deck were summoning it faster and easier then intended in its actual archetype, red dragon archfiend king calamity got itself banned because of centur-ion abusing it in ways it was never intended to be used as the final straw that broke the camel’s back as this has already happen prior in another completely different archetype and everyone’s favorite synchro monster baronne de fleur… most people dont even realize it is a part of an archetype at all because of how irrelevant that is and simply see it as the de facto lvl 10 synchro monster
yugioh has enough of a critical mass of generic boss monster that many people is clamoring for them to actually be locked to archetypes that konami has actually started banning some of them since last year
@@YukiFubuki.Only in tcg, you know that the solution of that is making in archetype boss monster stronger than the generic ones, like phantom of yubel. The generic ones are meant for weaker deck that need them, which means banning them is against the actual direction of the game which made for ocg format.
In Magic's Commander format, it usually is VERY fitting to call the Commander as the deck's boss monster as the deck can revolve around it.
To add: The commander is not always considered the 'Boss' since some decks only use the cmdr. for the color identity, as a enabler or as a 'Bait' to the real cmdr. (the true card the deck is built around)
Can't agree to with this assessment.
Even the commander isn't the boss necessarily and could be just the engine in the deck or be a value enabler.
Ahh yes my boss monster Frodo Baggins
No it's just not. Commanders usually aren't like Chaos Emperor Dragon Envoy of the End.
Emrakul the Aeons Torn is like Chaos Emperor Dragon Envoy of the End.
One could argue this is part of why people enjoy the Commander format of MTG so much. Basically, your commander is "the boss" as the deck is built around it and what the 99/98 allows you to do becomes more dependent on what your "boss" can do for you and no matter what your opponents do it's the one/two card(s) that you always have access to.
One reason i think is how monsters and combat work differently in the two games.
In Yugioh 1 Blues Eyes 3000 atk 2500 def could hold off an infinite number of Summoned Skull 2500 atk 1200 def. The attack stat when Blu eyes is in attack mode is all that matters. Also each Skull has to attack through Blu eyes.
Im MTG Blu eyes would be a 6/5 facing off a S. Skull thats a 5/3. Blu eyes' defense, in this case toughness, matters as each Skull can trade with them. Now having just a couple more Skulls on the field puts massive pressure on the Blu eyes player.
Yugioh allows you to ride one big creature to glory, MTG has had very few creatures that you cloud plop down and then procede to take them from 20 to 0.
A thing to mention about Magic's "combo" decks: In Yu Gi Oh the equivalent would be FTKs. And they are called FTKs because they literally win in the first turn, due to the different speed of the game. These decks are almost always banned or restricted, because it's something that neither Konami nor the players want to deal with
MtG also has FTK or even 0TK, where you win on your opponent's first turn.
yeah combo in mtg is essentially magical library exodia, and combo in yugioh is essentially nondeterministic storm, if it was deterministic
I feel like Craterhoof Behemoth fits the description very well.
I really like the seeings videos like this with comparison between to dirent tcgs and have both fandons interact
To be completely honest, I did end up getting into YuGiOh way more than MtG because of the monsters. Having something like Ultimate Conductor Tyranno or Thunder Dragon Colossus and building decks around them is pretty cool.
Seeing a cool monster and building a deck around them, meta or not, is the big appeal of YuGiOh to me.
Although I am slightly miffed that Master Duel banned Number 86 soon after I made a deck for it but hey.
It needed it.
I argue that magic cards do have an equivalent of cards referencing cards by partial name: the card type. It's perfectly normal to say "Target goblin gains flying until end of turn" in MTG, because goblin is a card type. Yugioh tried to do that, but they've mostly given up on it.
I was thinking the same but specifically the more insular ones like slivers. Unlike goblins, who change drastically from plane to plane, slivers have always had ONE game plan. Amass enough slivers on board that their shared abilities good stuff their way to victory. Meanwhile goblins might go tall, wide, aristocrats, etc. to win.
Depending on the in MTG limited format perspective, sign post cards tend to be the boss cards. They provide the idea of what to build around.
My takeaway from this is Commander players would like Yu-Gi-Oh more than they'd think.
I literally left yugioh for commander and didn't look back. It's not a matter of having not tried it. Modern yugioh is the pits. 😅
Pretty sure commander player want to play more than 2 turns
Pretty much, the extra deck and the commander mechanics tickle the same kind of gameplay fantasy
the closest Magic comes to flirting with Boss monster design is sets that introduce a new supported Kindred type for the limited environment and out of the lack of playables, you jsut throw it all into your Gishath, Sun's Avatar deck in 2018 and cross your fingers that you're not about to start the table breaking out in meme when you have to cast colossal dreadmaw.
Is Craterhoof Behemoth not a boss monster?
Is Marit Lage not a boss monster?
Craterhoof Behemoth: "Am I a joke to you?"
Haven't watched the video yet but the thumbnail made Emrakul cry
Fizzles to spell exile, dies to Doom Blade. Unplayable trash.
The one ring is the boss monster
Well, to be short... we kinda have that in MtG. Pretty much anything above 5 mana might be considered a Boss monster. Trying to deal with Progenitus or Emrakul? Its probably harder than dealing with most yugioh- Bossmonster. Even Yugioh-mechanics like Contact Fusion (chimeras), or special summoning the Bossmonster from your Deck (Spirit of the Night summoned through the three nightstalkers) has already existed in Mirage in 1996 (before the Yugioh cardgame even existed, they got the Copyright that year). And in the very first years of magic, Shivan dragons, Serra Angels or Sengir Vampires clearly had Iconic Boss-Monster energy. MtG-Cards are just less overhyped because there is no Anime to it.
technically legendary creatures kind of count as boss monsters because you can only have creature with that name on the field
Technically true but they just don't really feel THAT special, at least nowadays. Like they are "special" yet common. Not sure if this makes sense but that's how i feel lol
@@ZEDEX252 facts
@@ZEDEX252 just like yugioh's normal summon and special summon
@ZEDEX252 well nowadays they do because wotc decided that they would try to get commander players more interested in packs if they just made 20 legendaries a set rather than 2 lol
I was expecting something like the raid mechanic from the old Warcraft tcg or the thing they’re doing with lorcana where there’s a boss to defeat
I always call the card Atraxa, Grand Unifier a YGO boss monster due to the length of text and power on one card
just want to clarify that i dont really play modern but....
psychic boss frog kinda fits the bill
Well technically a boss monster can be any big dude that is very hard to dealt with in certain decks. Like Dragoon was a Generic boss mosnter for example or Zeus is "kindof" a boss monster. We have some cards like that in magic but we dont use the term because our monsters are not as "hard to dealt with" like they are mean to be in YGO they are just big guys with great effects that are better if they sticky on board for 1 more turn of value or two.
Even if i slam ur-dragon or eldrazi it just doesn't reach that oomph like a boss monster in yugioh has. It feels like i just put yet another creature but this one's bigger
The mentality is definitely different. Magic's mana system bends removal to the question of "is this scary enough that I need to get rid of now." With YGO, "removal" is either a stifle effect that negates a tutor to disrupt the value train, a specific type of removal that gets around a boss monster's protections like using an effect to sacrifice it for your own summon, or forcing your opponent to banish it, or the classic board wipe if the meta's boss monsters don't have powerful death effects or Indestructible.
There are certainly cards that could count as boss monsters in MtG even if they are rare. I would say both Ormendahls or Withengar always felt fery yugioh-esque to me in their design - absurdly powerful, but only when you fully commit to their gameplay, and if we dilude the definition a bit, I would say cards like Tovolar, Bloodline Keeper or Voldaren pariah could count as well.
@@tratanlightbreaker6029My first idea of a boss monster in MtG is Progenitus
Okay, but Avacyn
Constructed play, besides commander, in magic is rarely so centered on cards printed specifically to form a certain deck it seems. Limited I think gets much closer to having “boss monsters” than anything else because decks are usually centered around the best cards you open and what archetype printed into the set they best enable
The closest thing to boss monsters in Magic I can think of was "champion a [thing]", but even then those cards only require you to play a certain type, and didn't require you to go all-in
because why have a boss monster 13/13 Emrakul, the Promised End when you can have 13 1/1 squirrels?
9:50 technically, the first extra deck summoning method were fusion monsters
counterpoint: TRON
Wouldn't that be a commander? The Boss of the deck?
Sometimes, but not always. Some people have commanders that are just value machines or combo enablers, and some players don't even use the commander for anything more than the colors it provides.
Oh this video is perfect. I just started learning magic after playing yugioh for so long and it’s so strange. I’m still trying to figure stuff out
I personally think that the prevalence of Boss monsters and Archetypes are intrinsically linked. If you limit deck design to only function with a certain group of buddies, and one of those buddies is quite clearly **the boss** , then of course that boss is going to see a lot of play. There are a few points that allude to this in both the video and the comments, but it’s not as if magic is **without** set-defining creatures. The Elder Dragons from Tarkir, the Eldrazi Titans, the Gods of Theros and Amonket, to name a few. But you’re not obligated to play them, and sometimes, playing them in the groups that they represent in lore is a handicap.
This makes no sense when we have characters like Nicol Bolas, Ugin, Urza, the three Eldrazi, the Phyrexian Praetors, Guild leaders and several different faction leaders across the planes of MtG.
In spell slinger decks and combo decks, your still have pivotal cards that apply significant change in the game. Midrange has their bread and butter, but you'll still have some bigger bodies that you'll invest in to outscale the opponent's board.
Additionally, bosses in MtG see variations due to the progression of time.
Back when I played magic Aetherling was my boss monster, if that thing resolved it was over
Meld cards are bascially the boss monsters, they're just not insanely powerful making them seem weak by comparison.
There's a couple eldrazi adjacent creatures that merge together into a bigger monster
It does. Every card game does, Yugioh just has a show that it draws from to emphasize which ones are "important", but I'm pretty sure nobody will argue that things like the Eldrazi or Nico Bolas aren't
yugioh hasnt had a ‘show’ to draw from for half a decade already and the current meta decks barely even has anything to do with the show or at all
@@YukiFubuki. I think you are being obtuse on purpose. yugioh originally stemmed from from decks being centered around characters and their boss monster in the manga and show, and with time this is seeped into archetype design so that most archetypes have a "boss" that either is the payoff or further enables it.
@@YukiFubuki. It actually does, you forget its an japanese card game and anime series. We just didn't get the last 2 due to them not being confident it'll preform decently over here. That said, they're actively going out of their way to print more Blue-Eyes, Exodia, Yubel, and Metal Morph support so they clearly do intend to draw from the shows
@@ashemabahumat4173 rush duel is essentially a differnt game though and there has been more archetypes within the last couple years that has nothing to do with the anime
@@naiustheyetti sure but that doesnt change how that the last couple years has saw many more major archetypes and meta decks that has nothing to do with the anime
Now a days the boss monsters are more like the stakeholders instead of being a single CEO of the company.
I hear "mtg boss monster" and think "Emrakul, the Eons Torn"
By all appearances from where I'm sitting, MtG doesn't have boss monsters because the boss monsters tend to get banned. :P
See: Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis
WAT!?! no boss monsters?
Have u not seen big creatures like
"kozilek, the butcher of truth"
"Ulamog, the lost gyre",
"Emrakul, the aeons torn",
"Iona, shield of emeria",
"Progenitus",
"Jin-Gitaxias, Progress Tyrant",
"Sheoldred, the whispering one",
Or even just a "Stormtide Leviathan"
The Eldrazi Titans disagree
modern yugioh bossmonster: needing multiple different cards to combo into a big monster.
magics technically "boss monsters" are just single cards that have high mana costs and therefore time gated. (lets not talk about vintage first turn 8mana creature combos or stuff...)
So in a nutshell, monsters/creatures are far more important to one game than the other. "Small" monsters in Yugioh are usually going to either be interaction of some kind, like hand traps, or combo starters/pieces to try and help you get to the big monsters you want to bring out. I'm not saying small creatures in Magic aren't important, but they serve a very different purpose, and it's not to get that person to a 15/15 Eldrazi or something.
Depends on the creature. Like there are those elves that tap for mana equal to their power
@@TheMightyBattleSquid Oh yeah, I forgot about "mana dorks".
Magic ABSOLUTELY has boss monsters. You're telling me you look at a card like Sauron or Void Winnower and the board doesnt revolve around them until they get removed? And besides, anything that pushes you to win the game is a boss - Trident and Transcendent Dragion don't stop being the Tenpai bosses just because they only sticks around for a few seconds before the duel is won. That makes any board piece that enables a combo a boss, too, like Nadu.
It's not that MtG doesn't have boss monsters, its just YGO has Good monsters, and Monsters that are Mana with extra steps. Most monsters are just mechanical permission to play the actually impactful things, they're mana with extra steps.
Valgavoth terror eater wants to know your location
Hum I'm not sure I'd say boss monsters are hard to summon. They could have been 15 years ago but modern yugioh facilitates boss monster sumoning in basically one turn.
The Unspeakable: “Am I a joke to you?”
you can't convince ulamog isn't a boss monster
Yes we do, we call them Archenemy and turn 0-5 players or anyone with infinite combos.
Without having watched the video yet and having dabbled into Master Duel for about a month now my guess would be because Magic has way more and way stronger spot removal available, rendering any big scary monster useless unless it has a crazy etb effect or hexproof. Yugioh Boss Monsters on top of that also often have inbuilt protection either from battle or card effects or sometimes both. So really, removal in magic is too good and creatures too easy too remove at the moment.
nah a lot of the more recent boss monsters that debuted the last couple years dont have protection but simply retaliatory abilities or forms of recursion instead making them much more harder to get rid of or you dont want to get rid of them immediately because of the backlash to the game state it can cause
"Magic has way more and way stronger spot removal available" completly wrong. There is nothing more common than removal in YUGIOH that's why boss monsters, usually tribute one were considered bad until they added protection way later in the life of the game. If you tried to summon a blue eyes back in the days it just die to a miror force, sakuretsu armor or any other battle trap, might even get it stolen by a snatch steal. That never stopped casual from trying to use them.
Um... the FIRST extra deck summoning mechanic was Fusions, not Synchros 😅
It was literally called the Fusion deck until Synchros were added.
True, but who actually played fusions back then outside of Magical Scientist FTK or cheating them out with the likes of Cyber-Stein or Instant Fusion or Future Fusion?
@@assasin096 Heros players, which a lot of casual liked because of jaden, cyber dragon/machine were the strongest type for years and played the extra deck. Fusion were played a bit in gx and a lot on a casual level because fusion are cool
wasn't nadu the boss mosnter of nadu decks in modern a few months ago? why wasn't the blue djinn a boss monster in mono blue tempo like a year ago?
I think Nadu is the total opposite. He wasn't the thing you ended your turn with. He was a combo piece that made you get all your lands out. That's not really the same thing.
I thought the boss monsters were the commander
What format do you play most, Manalogs?
Also I think Emrakul is the closest thing to a boss monster. It ends the game.
Three words: Dies to Removal
Removal are insanely common in Yugioh too, the reason is most likely that peoples want to use big monster like the manga/anime, boss monsters were considered bad in yugioh until they added tons of protection, didnt stopped casual from playing them, even if it get popped by sakuretsu armor, miror force or any battle traps
Because the player is the boss monster
Tell that to when someone slams down emrakul
So, to answer your question, "Magic doesn't have boss monsters, because the term boss monster is subjective and no one chooses to use it when playing magic". Probably because it's dumb. Lots of decks are focused around a single big ass monster with a game breaking mechanic. Your fault if you don't count them as "boss monsters".
emrakul: am i a joke to you?
because it does? what have you been smoking eldrazzi, progenitus, arguably phyrexians are villains not monsters but i'd sttill count them as bosses.... there are a lot... gearhulks.... i can go on for a dozen cycles or so of boss level monsters
Dies to Doom Blade
Magic players barely hang out with other magic players
Archetypes in Yugioh are what magic designers call "parasitic mechanics" and are considered bad game design.
far from it, 1 of yugioh’s biggest problem atm is how generic and accessible practically everything is that people actually want for “parasitic design” just so anything that came before or after isnt synergistic all the time
Amazing!!!
Commander is the boss monster
the reason that boss monsters dont exist in mtg is because you have chosen a definition where they do not exist in MTG.
If you use archetype to define it, of course they dont exist. MTG doesn't have archetypes.
if you instead define it by a card that the deck revolves around, then yes, MTG decks have boss monsters. Commander decks are the prime example, but other things exist
Ygo also doesn't have aggro as a strategy option since you can't attack directly as easily as in Mtg. If there is a higher attack monster on the other side you have to kill it to deal life point damage whilst Mtg can ignore the big creature with attacking in big numbers
This probably the biggest reason why there aren't "boss monsters" so much in magic. A big flashy creature in magic might be threatening and imposing, but not as much in Yu-Gi-Oh where you HAVE to deal with it before you can attack your opponent. A single big monster can block out your whole board in Yu-Gi-Oh unlike magic where if you have more creatures than your opponent, you can at least hurt them
"Blind Second" decks like Cyberpunk Dragon, Trains, or more recently Tenpai are YGO's 'Aggro' decks. Rather than playing the game by trying to go first, establish tempo via disruption, and so on, you just let the other guy go first, play any of a number of powerful board-breakers, then hope you can deal 8000 damage before the other guy can stop you.
Trains, for example, just blast the board and then try to deal 2000 burn, 2000 burn, and then attack for 4000. Tenpai are notorious for being able to deal 16,000+ damage to get through the half-damage downside of Prosperity, while being impossible to interact with.
eh, I'd say we have aggro we just call them going second deck bc they deliberately go second to win in the first battle phase of the game. Tenpai and Ancient Gear are examples of this
@@Carwinley Trains and the likes are combo decks and have nothing to do with aggro. Can't really say a deck that can otk as an "aggro" deck.
@@balisticemerald8512 There are no real resources in ygo so you cannot really truly outpace an opponent like in Mtg where you play cheap cards one after another early game as aggro. There is no cheap cards in ygo only if you can use it now or not. Also isn't winning first battle phase good players just do as a side strategy?
9:55 Umm i don't think synchro is the first one
you could argue, that the fusion deck was removed, and the extra deck was added, therefore synchro was the first type for that extra deck.
but that would just be a argument about wording.
necrobloom, teyam, about a dozen other creature legendaries..... gitrog
We have legendary bombs for sure lol
MTG don't have boss monsters? Tell me you've never played MTG before without telling me.
If you don't understand how this is very wrong point, just tell me what does Green Mana do again? What is the whole point of Green? To Ramp and Summon Boss creatures.
Even Blue literally has Hullbreaker Horror a massive Kraken that wins game as soon on field pretty much. Also need I mention Eldrazi...
Seeing this video in my feed did make me laugh what an absurd idea that MTG don't have boss monsters.
SpongeBob boss monster when?
Short answer, cuz there’s no MTG anime
magic totally has boss monsters wtf? more than yugioh Emrakul is totally the boss of all boss mosnters of all games. theres tons of huge ass dragons and crazy hard to summon rainbow cards. EDH is all about summoning your big ass boss monsters. yugioh doesnt even have something like that
Very bizarre video...I mean, it's really well-analyzed, but it's not entirely correct?
You're operating off of a flawed premise about the lack of boss monsters in Magic. That is not entirely true, because Commander exists. Which, as your channel shows, you are very familiar with. And the Commander(s) of your deck are the centerpiece, engine, endgame, or identity of your deck.
And with Commander being the most popular and played format, I find this while video to be very bizarre for neglecting this.
And to further drive home how Commanders are boss monsters, look no further than to Universes Beyond-Lord of the Rings, Transformers, Street Fighter, Dr. Who, Tomb Raider, Assassins Creed, Final Fantasy, Marvel Comics, etc. all these iconic franchises and characters-all designed yo be your Commanders and boss monsters now.
Boss Monsters in Magic are what you get back with Reanimator
Masticore
Morphling
Akroma Angel of Wrath
Inkwell Leviathan
Emrakul the Aeons Torn
Griselbrand
Siege Rhino
Saying Magic doesn't have boss monsters is just incorrect.
That's like saying it doesn't have Energy.
I would add Elesh Norn to your list and every single one of those creatures are not played anymore in reanimator decks. Maybe only Griselbrand...
Don't you just love power creep? :/
That's why Yu-Gi-Oh is so boring now. The meta is always who's the newest, least nerf'd, archetype.
the Big Furry Monster
I'm a magic player who lives in a country where we have 15 players in the city, capital city for a second. Magic is a great game with wonderful arts (except the first ten years of the sets, they are ugly). We are very serious people 🤣 and you want to teach us a card game based on Chinese cartoons🤣 Thank you, but I will wait for one of your great videos about the real tcg game, not this bad copy🤣🤣🤣
It's all just a joke, except the beginning and my humble opinion about early years of art in MTG🤣 bazinga!
Because its a good card game
Bored.
It's called the commander.
You're welcome