To be fair for Unleashed/Frontiers. You could also just headcanon it to be the fact there was no need for the Chaos Emeralds. Dark Gaia is capable of breaking apart the world himself, in fact the only thing shown to us regarding the Emeralds was the fact they were able to awaken it early. Light Gaia could be capable of fixing the world himself, the humans built the temples, the Emeralds simply serve as a way to make the task easier for Light Gaia.
But then again, the only reason the emeralds are needed in unleashed is to form the gaia colossus, the only thing to be capable of defeating dark gaia (until unleashed with soup sonk)
Wow I got emotional by the end. I've been following this series since the beginning, at the time I had just started a new job, now I'm one of the oldest ones in this same job. I remember fondly listening to your SA1 review podcast-style while coming back home, and anticipating your Unleashed video, or lost world video. Your Sonic retrospective was really something I looked up to every week, gonna miss those days.
Eggman really succeeded in his goal of making Robotnikland in Unleashed, then made it again as a themepark after it was destroyed by Sonic and Ultraman Gaia. Good job course correcting the timeline J
Thank you for these past few years worth of re-living amazing memories, J's. The retrospective series has meant a lot for me, I've rewatched many of the videos, shown then to my friends, re-evaluated some of my stances on certain games after being inspired to replay them, and I was able to appreciate every video all the same regardless of whether or not I agreed with your final conclusion, and I was always looking forward to the next. It really does feel like the end of an era, one that I'll look back on fondly as it helped me truly love Sonic again and understand why I loved the series and characters during a long time of Sonic disappointments and drought. It also introduced me to all your other fantastic videos on Ratchet & Clank, Sly, TMNT, etc etc. So once again, thank you, and I look forward to seeing where you'll go from here!
23:10 Little bit of a correction here, Sonic the Fighters was built off of the engine of Fighting Vipers (another fighting game created by Sega AM2), not Virtua Fighter. Although it’s easy to mistake them considering FV was built off of VF2’s engine and both being made by AM2. The main reason though is because of the character Honey from Fighting Vipers initially being planned to be in Sonic the Fighters as Honey the Cat, who was scrapped in the final game but still had leftover code and was fully added into the game with the 2012 360/PS3 rerelease
Classic Sonic is only in Forces just so that the marketing team could say that Forces is inspired or is from the game's brought to you by Generations and Colors. He literally has no reason to be there other than to build up hype.
I've been following this retrospective from the very beginning. Every new video was something that I really looked forward to. So to see it all finally come to an end, after two and a half years. Man, that's just a lot to take in. Thank you for all of the hardwork that you put into these videos. Your work has definitely inspired me, and many others. As a Sonic fan myself, and someone who's been watching these review type content ever since he was a kid. Seeing your new perspectives really mean a lot. I'm really gonna miss those days where I look forward to new Sonic videos every week. But, I'm also looking forward to the future of this channel as well. So, best wishes, and keep making great videos about things that you're passionate about!
Yeah i couldnt have said it better myself. His retrospective of the donic franshise sinhlehandedly made me invested kn the games again and him talking about games from his childhood made me try and get my hands on games from my childhood like buying sonic and all stars racing transformed and unleashed on the ps3(though i played it on the ps2 as a 4 year old in 2012 and niether me or my mom understood how to continue after the first 8 midday sonic stages) and i have also borrowed and is currently streaming sonic 06 on my ps3. In conclusion: J reviews, you made me try and have fun with video-games again as i relive the old games which had passion and soul in them and just meant a lot to me like skylanders,sonic and all stars racing transformed...im sad to see the sonic retrospective go but i will look out my window over the horizon and ill see the apartment building 100 feet from my room. But ill also look forward to more stuff. Oh yeah i also discovered snapcubes fandubs which can i say...are hilarious.
Never knew about the Neo Classic era, it makes sense but is also very confusing at the same time. Also love how you managed to get a Bentley's Hackpack reference in there haha
Thank you J for doing the series. I've really enjoyed the journey you took us through from the first game through Frontiers & the timeline. I really enjoy revisiting your reviews & hearing your opinions, a testament to the hard work & care you put in. I'm glad to have discovered you through this series. I look forward to your future content. Until then, best wishes.
Hey, funny thing... Generations was released in 2011. The very next year we got Doctor Who series 7 which ended with the Great Intelligence having the exact same villainous scheme as Doctor Eggman did in the game. And it was also solved by having another character follow him into the timeline to set right what he'd put wrong. And not long after that, which was itself not long after one Doctor met and teamed up with his past self, another, less egg-shaped Doctor also did that. Coincidence? Almost definitely! But it's funny to think about.
Classic Sonic "suddenly being from a different dimension" always made perfect sense to me. After Generations he went back to the past, but since he had met his future self, his events turn out differently which is what we call a separate timeline. So in Forces when they said he was from a different dimension, I assumed they were talking about his alt timeline that had been created. Alt timelines are referred to as dimensions or universes all the time in fiction so it was weird to me that it caused this much confusion.
The "dimension" thing is a little weird-why not just call it "the past"?-but Tails was apparently on a PTSD episode for six months from losing Sonic (plausibility of THAT aside), so it makes sense he'd be a little confused.
It's Tails. You would think if anyone in the series would be able to tell the difference between a timeline split and a full-on, actual alternate dimension (like the Sol dimension they straightup already know from the Rush duology), it would be one of the two geniuses in the main dimension's present: Eggman and Tails. Sure, he was not in the best of states, but generally it's still a mislabelling and, more importantly, one that's never corrected. Just because a mistake is common, doesn't make it not a mistake. While the existence of multiple alternate dimensions is plausible, Generations already established itself as a time travel story, meaning by that extent that we outright KNOW that if Gens itself, if it was indeed causing an effect on the past (and not just 06 tier time travel), it would then have created a split timeline instead. I like to believe Tails simply said alternate dimension as a hypothesis, but that's purely headcanon as nothing indicates that in the game itself, which leads to it making it seem like Tails is certain of that answer when most of the public knows it's wrong. (And in fact Sonic Team tried to double down on the "alternate dimension" angle at the time; barely anyone was buying it afaik, though) In an attempt to try and make Tails look smart again, they fumbled because of messing up their own canonicity, and instead just ended up making a character that was already seen as becoming less confident and smart (as a result of poor writing in the last two games), just seem even more stupid. (And that, doesn't fly well with a fandom that's tired of the character being portrayed that way)
Apparently EVERYONE here doesn't know that "another dimension" is a mistranslated line. Tails never said that, in the japan version, he just referred to 90s sonic as "from another world", which is also what's used to refer to silver's future at some point. But sure, let's just NOT use the japan scripts that actually made more sense than the English versions.
@@extremmefan7305 it's a mistranslated line, it's not that deep. Tails said "another world" in japan and that line is more ambiguous since they also used that word for silver's future. and almost All the sonic games' (minus frontiers) script originated from Japan, and so, it's 100% better to be using them definitively instead of the English translations.
@@michaeldunlap1032 I would then say it's not a mistranslation; rather, it's translated too literally, almost robotically. Yes, the same wording is also used to refer to Silver's future, but in that case we have way more context clues to safely say "oh, they mean the future"; heck, the one case I can think of that could be misconstrued as being in the future but is an actual "alternate dimension" instead is Chaotic Inferno. However, that's assuming they translated from Japanese to English; when the main writers, Pontac and Graff, likely wrote it in English first (due to being English themselves iirc), which means it was INTENDED to mean "alternate dimension" in this case; this is reinforced by SEGA then trying to retcon Classic Sonic into his own world (and then later just making all Classic adventures "part of the past" which is straightup impossible since they'd otherwise be in the incident depicted in Generations), when a timeline split (like 06 except without the modern timeline going defunct like that game's whole set of events did) would've been a much simpler explanation
Aside from a couple of minor things, this has now become my head-canon for the Sonic timeline. Thank you for putting so much work into creating what I honestly see as the definitive Sonic timeline.
Agreed, this better than any timeline I could put together. Though if I had to put the first two Riders games somewhere, I’d slot them between Rivals 2 and Unleashed. Zero Gravity foreshadows Eggmanland and IIRC it was stated that Secret Rings was Sonic’s first time fighting against a genie.
I have really loved this Sonic retrospective and i highly agree with what you said at the end of the video. The Sonic series as a whole may not be the most consistent series ever however that does not stop it from having some incredible highs from time to time and me loving the series and the stuff that makes it so unique. Here's hoping the Sonic series has a bright future ahead.
Thanks for the ride, J. While I'm not as big of a Sonic fan as I used to be, it's undeniable that the story and cast of characters has kept me coming back to this series even now. While I don't think Frontiers is that good or that bad, just mid, I still gotta admit, those bossfights alongside the music has kept me coming back to that game because of how cool it is as a narrative set piece and a exploration of how cool Sonic can still be (and the fact that it's so animeish (specifically Dragon Ball esque) which just adds to the rule of cool). Your videos has also helped me realize a few of my own opinons on Sonic as well, and I thank you for it.
I'll just say this now: Sonic Unleashed and Black Knight is peak 2000's Sonic in its finest form. Unleashed has the best style of Sonic's world as a whole, and Black Knight has Sonic at his best and coolest as a character. I flat-out DESPISE that these two were derided with little to no remorse back then. And I think we all can agree that the borderline best part of Forces was the Avatar.
I'm a long time (and long suffering) Sonic fan since my much younger days when Sonic 1 was the second game I ever got for the Sega Mega Drive (Sega Genesis for you non-PAL folk), the first gaming console I ever owned. I remember that the year it came out, Sonic & Knuckles was all I wanted for Xmas and that's exactly what I got. I struggled through both Sonic 06 and Shadow because I loved the story and characters, certainly not because of the gameplay. I got burnt out after that and didn't play the next few, but I'm really keen to get my hands on Sonic Frontiers soon as I've heard many good things. I loved this series of videos, much kudos to you for the time and effort it took in making it!
Thanks J you really made something special with this whole retrospective. You honestly revitalized my love for sonic when I first stumbled upon your Channel. Thank you for everything
Thanks for making a great video series. I watch litteraly every one as close to the day you release them as possible and I enjoy every one. This series really respawned my love for sonic so I just wanna say thanks 👌
This whole retrospective has been some of the best video essays I was 9 when the modern sonic stories video came out I’m 13 now and still love every video you are one of the best UA-camrs on this platform and this was a great way to end the retrospective so thank you
What an end to an Era. Only knew of your channel for like 2 weeks but I already watched every sonic video you made so far. Really cool stuff, I was actually born the year after sonic 1. I have literally grown up playing and knowing these games all my life. Super cool. Appreciate thr timeline
While i may not like some directions the series has gone that will never ever make me stop loving the games and other content that made me a fan of this series.
The modern era occurred in my teenage years, I loved these games during that time, but I’m 21 and now I find myself going back to the adventure era more often, but every now and then I get the kick to go back to modern
I've been following this neat nichey retrospective since around the beginning. And I gotta say you did a pretty bang up job Mr. J You really changed your perspective on this series over the spam of the project, going from disliking its direction and hating the stories to just appreciating what you liked about each title and just being happy that you had what you have. That all being said as someone who had given up on this series during the drought of the last 8 or so years, I'm glad I could watch your videos and remember what I loved about this series. The cool moments, the awsome set peices and locales, the amazing music, and of course the enjoyable characters that made me want to keep coming back, these characters and their stories were always some of my favorite in gaming and I would always want to see where their fun action adventures will lead them next. But overall I'm glad that I got to see each game given a good in depth review (minus a few) and now have a good set of reviews i could always come back and rewatch for the future.
18:57 I think you're mistaken here. When Robotnik asks "Who are they?" I'm fairly certain he's referring SPECIFICALLY to Shadow and Rouge. There's no indication that he doesn't know Knuckles so Sonic 3 could've already happened.
I always thought it made more sense, and was always intended to have Encore mode be after Mania in the main timeline, while Mania Adventures be after Forces in the Classic timeline.
I still find it interesting that Unleashed starts off on the typical ENDING of Sonic. All 7 chaos emeralds, fighting on a space ship, powerful Eggman mecha. It's almost like there was some untold, typical Sonic journey leading up to Unleashed's beginning.
what a brilliant way to end off the Sonic retrospective. i’ve been following since the beginning and loved every second of it. thank you, J, for hours of entertainment and enlightenment about a franchise i love dearly
Funny thing about Sonic Frontiers and, more importantly, the comics and Boom. Yeah, both of them are canon to some degree as both Tangle and Sticks are referenced by name
This video series was excellent. I truly loved it. This timeline was far better thought-out than anything I could've come up with. I would've just said "XYZ said this but it's a contradiction to everything else/I don't like it, so we're ignoring that". This series did the best to explain and connect everything. And that's great.
Sonic just can’t catch a break. Right after saving the world, Eggman is literally right back to doing something after failing. Or he gets sucked into a book right after saving the world from Dark Gaia
"From another dimension", I'm pretty sure this was meant to be a joke that fell flat about Classic Sonic being 2-Dimensional Sonic, rather than 3-Dimensional Sonic, not that he isn't from another timeline. I wouldn't take it literally. Especially now with what we know from Frontiers.
'There is no seried quite like it'. That is it. I feel this. Whenever i thought of sonic it was of adventure, of the value of friendship, of being a better person. I will never forget what sonic was. I will never forget how much i grew with this characters. I will bever forget
You brushed past it, but Generations 3DS had confirmed that both Colours Wii and DS are canon, due to the wisps that show up in that version of Tropical Resort. Not sure what you'll do with that info, but there you go.
Great video J! I started watching your channel with the modern sonic stories video and it has been a treat to see your retrospective through all these years. Can't wait for what you make in the future!
This is nice to see as a die hard fan that fell off after Hero’s and many of these games just aren’t accessible, are optimized or just aren’t good. I never played anything from Hero’s to Generations and a bit of lost world 3DS outside of 4. This is why I got lost but I feel like maybe I didn’t miss a whole lot. I played Mania, played generations and 4…I just feel like you can now…skip a lot of the 06-Forces aside from Gen and Mania and be better for it.
Never really comment on videos but wanted to thank you for making this video series. Have loved watching it these past almost 3 years. Will continue watching any sonic videos you put out.
this was great, truly. it even renewed an interest in sonic for me again and after beating frontiers I started playing SA2 again. I look forward to you mentioning, if at all, the new dlc story content for frontiers once that comes out, and I hope you'll still be here for whenever the next sonic game comes out
Fun fact: Sonic Unleashed is now ranked as the second most favorite Sonic game amongs Sonic fans. Behind Sonic Adventure 2. And you know what, I think it truly deserves it. Sonic Unleashed is really my favorite Sonic game. Also Sonic Chaos 16 bit, is getting a 16 bit remake but in a style of Sonic Mania, as if Sonic Chaos is the sequel to Sonic Mania. Don’t know if anyone is interested in playing it, but it’s not yet complete.
This three-parter's thumbnails really do well with showing off which characters got the headlining in each era-a depressing reminder of the series sharply changing its focus every ten years. Even the Greg Martin art of Sonic and Tails in Part 1's thumbnail, whatever you may think of it in itself, plays into how Sega had twisted the series against its original creators' ends from the start, with only Knuckles getting an Ohshima pic showing how the series was starting to be reclaimed by its creators S3/&K to culminate in Adventure 1, the last Sonic game to even involve Ohshima, before Adventure 2 was plopped on the world albeit for reasons having nothing to do with Ohshima's departure from Sega.
To be fair to Sonic 4 Episode 1 & 2, I think it can fit after Sonic R and before SA1 as the transition between the Classic and Modern Era. The key thing here is that Episode 2 explains what happens to Metal Sonic after CD, and therefore also explains how he returns in Sonic Heroes. There is a high likelihood that these two are the same Metal Sonic, as the one in Heroes has memories of his first encounter with Sonic, and how he felt afraid afterwards. The afraid idea works even better if Metal Sonic lost to Sonic twice consecutively. The problem is with the cliffhanger ending of 2, but given that Little Planet does not make a future appearance in the main timeline, we can just assume that Little Planet disappears again, especially since Sonic and Tails destroyed the Death Egg Mk II's core that would have prevented that. With the Death Egg Mk II damaged, Eggman decides to not waste time rebuilding it, and instead creates the Egg Carrier as a replacement, which can sorta lead into SA1.
Sonic Generations splitting Sonic and his Classic version into separate timelines does offer up a lot of explanations for current and past games. Also congrats on this massive retrospective J.
will you ever do a full tierlist of all the games? dont even have to make a full video about it because that just seems like a weird way to end off a retrospective like this to me you could just put it on like twitter or smth
Truth be told, I actually think Sonic Triple Trouble, the original GG version, not the remake, could work in the neo-classic timeline since every other Fang appearence is in that parricular timeline, meaning it was an alternate way Classic Sonic and Knuckles met.
I personally think that Sonic 4 could actually exist within canon just have Sonic Mania going right after it to explain Little Planet being freed from Eggman's influence yet again. Yeah there's the plot hole of the modern designs in Sonic 4 going back to the Classic designs, but what can you do? Another potential way for it to work in canon could be that the Death Egg Mk. II probably exploded offscreen and Little Planet was freed once again after that. Either way I can understand completely why you threw it out of canon since it might be too much of a headache to make work, but I do like the challenge of making things work in a timeline which is why these three videos I think are some of your best work J. I can't wait to see what the future holds for your channel after this amazing send off to your Sonic retrospective.
That's how i explain it, sonic and tails probabbly left it there to come back and free it, the mod with modern sonic could help with the artstyle change. But that means the real ending probabbly doesn't happen.
Also the struggle with determining which is canon between the Wii and DS version of Colors could also easily just be compared to the fact that SA1 and Shadow the Hedgehog are canon, as different campaigns will show contradicting things. As in 2 different stories in SA1 May should the same scene with different but similar dialogue (probably just meant to represent that characters perspective of the event) and leaving us with knowing the main written scene is canon but not which written script is canon. Or in Shadow the Hedgehog where the same scene might be presented the same way, but each story overall will show a different series of scenes and leave you not knowing which combination of scenes are canon. It’s likely a select collection of scenes across numerous stories are canon but certain parts of each story aren’t. With Colors it’s like that. Both are canon and you combine them. You just don’t know which details must stay and which can be tossed out here and there.
In my opinion, sonic is the best game franchise ever and I love the games The 3rd time line is my favorite time line BTW Sonic generations is the best game in the franchise NO CAP
Oh good…. After advocating for the name “Neo Classic Sonic” for the last 5 - 10 years, someone more popular than me has finally used it. So maybe the fanbase will finally adopt it. lol
@@michaeldunlap1032 Maybe to you but….. not to me. lol It also makes the most sense and is the perfect name for it to differentiate it from the original classic Sonic. A lot better than “Modern Classic Sonic” or “New Classic Sonic” or “Classic Sonic 2”. It also sounds similar to Neo Metal Sonic.
Excellent review series for this franchise J! I loved this idea and I think your passion with the series evident in all the ways you talk about it. On that note though if you did wanna cover the other parts of the franchise I would love to hear your thoughts on Sonic X since you mentioned how you first got into Sonic with it and the games released around the time as a fellow person who watched it as one of the first things I found with Sonic in it, I would love to hear your thoughts especially given your 2003 Ninja Turtles video series which was such a nostalgic dream to listen to for me. Don't care if it's positive or negative I feel your words will have the same care and love placed into them!
Frontiers still contradicts Unleashed because Chip said that He and Dark Gaia have been fighting from the beginning of time. So the only way I can see it making sense is that Chip used the Chaos Emeralds as a way to fix the Earth after the Ancients changed into Chao.
Sonic 1998-2009: “Wanna see me have long ass overarching stories throughout multiple games?” Sonic 2020-present: “Wanna see me do it again?” Edit: Also I don’t like the fact that Sega is trying to make everything canon now because it’s just impossible to do so because games like Generations and Forces and characters like Blaze and Classic Sonic will always contradict each other.
My headcanon is that The werehog form is Sonic's equivalent of perfect chaos. Edit: considering that your character gets cloned in sonic the fighters and there are 8 emeralds in that game, does that mean the "8th emerald" gets created and becomes the phantom ruby?
that artwork of Silver and Blaze in 3D renders for Colors looks soooo freaking good
Funfact: it's apparently rendered by the same guy who made the sonic project 06 fan remaster
@@chocolatesensei5648do you know where I can find the full image?
Interestingly, both the Void Wisps and Frenzy Wisps appear in the ending cutscene on both DS and Wii, despite both being version exclusives.
Maybe that proves that both are canon
@@Biscuit.Ummers there is are a lot of things colors ultimate should have done
daaamn that's craaaaazy
@@kebbe2276 Like Super Sonic + Wisps = Super Wisps
@@kebbe2276 and they did.
To be fair for Unleashed/Frontiers. You could also just headcanon it to be the fact there was no need for the Chaos Emeralds.
Dark Gaia is capable of breaking apart the world himself, in fact the only thing shown to us regarding the Emeralds was the fact they were able to awaken it early. Light Gaia could be capable of fixing the world himself, the humans built the temples, the Emeralds simply serve as a way to make the task easier for Light Gaia.
But then again, the only reason the emeralds are needed in unleashed is to form the gaia colossus, the only thing to be capable of defeating dark gaia (until unleashed with soup sonk)
i'm gonna feetcanon that those games never existed
Maybe the Ancients met Chip/Light Gaia last time he woke up?
If you really stretch it, the Master Emerald is capable of shrinking to Chaos Emerald scale a la SA2
the fact that sonic took the emeralds for himself at the end, with light gaia still functioning, makes me think exactly that.
Wow I got emotional by the end. I've been following this series since the beginning, at the time I had just started a new job, now I'm one of the oldest ones in this same job. I remember fondly listening to your SA1 review podcast-style while coming back home, and anticipating your Unleashed video, or lost world video.
Your Sonic retrospective was really something I looked up to every week, gonna miss those days.
I fully resonate with this comment.
Eggman really succeeded in his goal of making Robotnikland in Unleashed, then made it again as a themepark after it was destroyed by Sonic and Ultraman Gaia.
Good job course correcting the timeline J
And then he conquered the world and Little Planet.
He just can't stop winning.
Thank you for these past few years worth of re-living amazing memories, J's.
The retrospective series has meant a lot for me, I've rewatched many of the videos, shown then to my friends, re-evaluated some of my stances on certain games after being inspired to replay them, and I was able to appreciate every video all the same regardless of whether or not I agreed with your final conclusion, and I was always looking forward to the next. It really does feel like the end of an era, one that I'll look back on fondly as it helped me truly love Sonic again and understand why I loved the series and characters during a long time of Sonic disappointments and drought. It also introduced me to all your other fantastic videos on Ratchet & Clank, Sly, TMNT, etc etc. So once again, thank you, and I look forward to seeing where you'll go from here!
This comment I can relate to the utmost with.
He's been non stop making high quality and it's been just so amazing again and again
23:10 Little bit of a correction here, Sonic the Fighters was built off of the engine of Fighting Vipers (another fighting game created by Sega AM2), not Virtua Fighter. Although it’s easy to mistake them considering FV was built off of VF2’s engine and both being made by AM2. The main reason though is because of the character Honey from Fighting Vipers initially being planned to be in Sonic the Fighters as Honey the Cat, who was scrapped in the final game but still had leftover code and was fully added into the game with the 2012 360/PS3 rerelease
This should be pinned
But the real question is, is honey the cat canon in the modern universe ? If archie sonic is anything to go by, then i say she is
@@sandudelcea6707 Well there's no reason she wouldn't be so sure why not
Fascinating info and I loved Sonic fighters
@@r.henryjr.1533 exactly !
Nice video! The third timeline is the one I grew up in! I like Classic Sonic but I feel like he shouldn't had been in Sonic Forces :/
I’m pretty sure nobody needed him in Forces😒
@@Jackattack359 he didn't do shit
Glad he isn't in frontiers
Classic Sonic is only in Forces just so that the marketing team could say that Forces is inspired or is from the game's brought to you by Generations and Colors. He literally has no reason to be there other than to build up hype.
Nobody likes santiago
Unleashed is the true start of the Meta Era
It's crazy to believe that the entire Sonic retrospective is over, always looked forward to these as they were coming out.
I've been following this retrospective from the very beginning. Every new video was something that I really looked forward to. So to see it all finally come to an end, after two and a half years. Man, that's just a lot to take in. Thank you for all of the hardwork that you put into these videos. Your work has definitely inspired me, and many others. As a Sonic fan myself, and someone who's been watching these review type content ever since he was a kid. Seeing your new perspectives really mean a lot. I'm really gonna miss those days where I look forward to new Sonic videos every week. But, I'm also looking forward to the future of this channel as well. So, best wishes, and keep making great videos about things that you're passionate about!
Yeah i couldnt have said it better myself. His retrospective of the donic franshise sinhlehandedly made me invested kn the games again and him talking about games from his childhood made me try and get my hands on games from my childhood like buying sonic and all stars racing transformed and unleashed on the ps3(though i played it on the ps2 as a 4 year old in 2012 and niether me or my mom understood how to continue after the first 8 midday sonic stages) and i have also borrowed and is currently streaming sonic 06 on my ps3. In conclusion: J reviews, you made me try and have fun with video-games again as i relive the old games which had passion and soul in them and just meant a lot to me like skylanders,sonic and all stars racing transformed...im sad to see the sonic retrospective go but i will look out my window over the horizon and ill see the apartment building 100 feet from my room.
But ill also look forward to more stuff.
Oh yeah i also discovered snapcubes fandubs which can i say...are hilarious.
Never knew about the Neo Classic era, it makes sense but is also very confusing at the same time. Also love how you managed to get a Bentley's Hackpack reference in there haha
Hi J's Reviews I love this and I hope you have a good day and you are awesome
Thank you J for doing the series. I've really enjoyed the journey you took us through from the first game through Frontiers & the timeline. I really enjoy revisiting your reviews & hearing your opinions, a testament to the hard work & care you put in.
I'm glad to have discovered you through this series. I look forward to your future content. Until then, best wishes.
I remember doing a full Sonic the Fighters playthrough in Judgement at one of the sega arcades. That's pretty surreal to me.
22:04
Dude. I cannot believe this was a real advertisement for the 32x.
Hey, funny thing... Generations was released in 2011. The very next year we got Doctor Who series 7 which ended with the Great Intelligence having the exact same villainous scheme as Doctor Eggman did in the game. And it was also solved by having another character follow him into the timeline to set right what he'd put wrong.
And not long after that, which was itself not long after one Doctor met and teamed up with his past self, another, less egg-shaped Doctor also did that.
Coincidence?
Almost definitely! But it's funny to think about.
Classic Sonic "suddenly being from a different dimension" always made perfect sense to me. After Generations he went back to the past, but since he had met his future self, his events turn out differently which is what we call a separate timeline. So in Forces when they said he was from a different dimension, I assumed they were talking about his alt timeline that had been created. Alt timelines are referred to as dimensions or universes all the time in fiction so it was weird to me that it caused this much confusion.
The "dimension" thing is a little weird-why not just call it "the past"?-but Tails was apparently on a PTSD episode for six months from losing Sonic (plausibility of THAT aside), so it makes sense he'd be a little confused.
It's Tails.
You would think if anyone in the series would be able to tell the difference between a timeline split and a full-on, actual alternate dimension (like the Sol dimension they straightup already know from the Rush duology), it would be one of the two geniuses in the main dimension's present: Eggman and Tails.
Sure, he was not in the best of states, but generally it's still a mislabelling and, more importantly, one that's never corrected. Just because a mistake is common, doesn't make it not a mistake.
While the existence of multiple alternate dimensions is plausible, Generations already established itself as a time travel story, meaning by that extent that we outright KNOW that if Gens itself, if it was indeed causing an effect on the past (and not just 06 tier time travel), it would then have created a split timeline instead.
I like to believe Tails simply said alternate dimension as a hypothesis, but that's purely headcanon as nothing indicates that in the game itself, which leads to it making it seem like Tails is certain of that answer when most of the public knows it's wrong. (And in fact Sonic Team tried to double down on the "alternate dimension" angle at the time; barely anyone was buying it afaik, though)
In an attempt to try and make Tails look smart again, they fumbled because of messing up their own canonicity, and instead just ended up making a character that was already seen as becoming less confident and smart (as a result of poor writing in the last two games), just seem even more stupid. (And that, doesn't fly well with a fandom that's tired of the character being portrayed that way)
Apparently EVERYONE here doesn't know that "another dimension" is a mistranslated line.
Tails never said that, in the japan version, he just referred to 90s sonic as "from another world", which is also what's used to refer to silver's future at some point. But sure, let's just NOT use the japan scripts that actually made more sense than the English versions.
@@extremmefan7305 it's a mistranslated line, it's not that deep. Tails said "another world" in japan and that line is more ambiguous since they also used that word for silver's future. and almost All the sonic games' (minus frontiers) script originated from Japan, and so, it's 100% better to be using them definitively instead of the English translations.
@@michaeldunlap1032 I would then say it's not a mistranslation; rather, it's translated too literally, almost robotically.
Yes, the same wording is also used to refer to Silver's future, but in that case we have way more context clues to safely say "oh, they mean the future"; heck, the one case I can think of that could be misconstrued as being in the future but is an actual "alternate dimension" instead is Chaotic Inferno.
However, that's assuming they translated from Japanese to English; when the main writers, Pontac and Graff, likely wrote it in English first (due to being English themselves iirc), which means it was INTENDED to mean "alternate dimension" in this case; this is reinforced by SEGA then trying to retcon Classic Sonic into his own world (and then later just making all Classic adventures "part of the past" which is straightup impossible since they'd otherwise be in the incident depicted in Generations), when a timeline split (like 06 except without the modern timeline going defunct like that game's whole set of events did) would've been a much simpler explanation
Thanks! For all you hard work man .. been here since Mega Man x6 video
Aside from a couple of minor things, this has now become my head-canon for the Sonic timeline. Thank you for putting so much work into creating what I honestly see as the definitive Sonic timeline.
Agreed, this better than any timeline I could put together.
Though if I had to put the first two Riders games somewhere, I’d slot them between Rivals 2 and Unleashed. Zero Gravity foreshadows Eggmanland and IIRC it was stated that Secret Rings was Sonic’s first time fighting against a genie.
I have really loved this Sonic retrospective and i highly agree with what you said at the end of the video. The Sonic series as a whole may not be the most consistent series ever however that does not stop it from having some incredible highs from time to time and me loving the series and the stuff that makes it so unique. Here's hoping the Sonic series has a bright future ahead.
Frontiers was an easy one to place since it often references events from past Sonic games
Thanks for the ride, J. While I'm not as big of a Sonic fan as I used to be, it's undeniable that the story and cast of characters has kept me coming back to this series even now. While I don't think Frontiers is that good or that bad, just mid, I still gotta admit, those bossfights alongside the music has kept me coming back to that game because of how cool it is as a narrative set piece and a exploration of how cool Sonic can still be (and the fact that it's so animeish (specifically Dragon Ball esque) which just adds to the rule of cool). Your videos has also helped me realize a few of my own opinons on Sonic as well, and I thank you for it.
I'll just say this now: Sonic Unleashed and Black Knight is peak 2000's Sonic in its finest form. Unleashed has the best style of Sonic's world as a whole, and Black Knight has Sonic at his best and coolest as a character.
I flat-out DESPISE that these two were derided with little to no remorse back then.
And I think we all can agree that the borderline best part of Forces was the Avatar.
The biggest problem in this video is he said “I’m here” is the best frontiers vocal. Even if it’s his opinion undefeatable is goated
Why do your videos always make me cry
You are to me,a legend in the sonic fandom.
seriously,you're that great 👍
I'm a long time (and long suffering) Sonic fan since my much younger days when Sonic 1 was the second game I ever got for the Sega Mega Drive (Sega Genesis for you non-PAL folk), the first gaming console I ever owned. I remember that the year it came out, Sonic & Knuckles was all I wanted for Xmas and that's exactly what I got. I struggled through both Sonic 06 and Shadow because I loved the story and characters, certainly not because of the gameplay. I got burnt out after that and didn't play the next few, but I'm really keen to get my hands on Sonic Frontiers soon as I've heard many good things.
I loved this series of videos, much kudos to you for the time and effort it took in making it!
I haven't played every game in the series, but Sonic is my favorite video game character.
Thanks J you really made something special with this whole retrospective. You honestly revitalized my love for sonic when I first stumbled upon your Channel. Thank you for everything
I'm gonna watch this like 40 times when you finally compile all 3 parts.
i wanted a intire image for the timeline but, this timeline is so much better than others that i see around UA-cam
I really needed this, something to distract me from Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3. I’m gonna cry watching that movie…
About sonic 4, in the latest bumblekast, ian flynn confirmed that sonic 4 still is canon, and happens at some point after mania
Thanks for making a great video series. I watch litteraly every one as close to the day you release them as possible and I enjoy every one. This series really respawned my love for sonic so I just wanna say thanks 👌
I'm at a point where I've mostly given up on this franchise in terms of (official) games, but I still love watching content like this.
congratz on the year of sonic!
This whole retrospective has been some of the best video essays I was 9 when the modern sonic stories video came out I’m 13 now and still love every video you are one of the best UA-camrs on this platform and this was a great way to end the retrospective so thank you
What an end to an Era. Only knew of your channel for like 2 weeks but I already watched every sonic video you made so far. Really cool stuff, I was actually born the year after sonic 1. I have literally grown up playing and knowing these games all my life.
Super cool. Appreciate thr timeline
We all looking they're is a new era of sonic the hedgehog in the future.
Man this has been a journey. Your Sonic videos is what made me enjoy your channel and to see how far its come. Breathtaking.
While i may not like some directions the series has gone that will never ever make me stop loving the games and other content that made me a fan of this series.
Sonic will always hold a special place in my heart.
The modern era occurred in my teenage years, I loved these games during that time, but I’m 21 and now I find myself going back to the adventure era more often, but every now and then I get the kick to go back to modern
I've been following this neat nichey retrospective since around the beginning. And I gotta say you did a pretty bang up job Mr. J
You really changed your perspective on this series over the spam of the project, going from disliking its direction and hating the stories to just appreciating what you liked about each title and just being happy that you had what you have.
That all being said as someone who had given up on this series during the drought of the last 8 or so years, I'm glad I could watch your videos and remember what I loved about this series. The cool moments, the awsome set peices and locales, the amazing music, and of course the enjoyable characters that made me want to keep coming back, these characters and their stories were always some of my favorite in gaming and I would always want to see where their fun action adventures will lead them next.
But overall I'm glad that I got to see each game given a good in depth review (minus a few) and now have a good set of reviews i could always come back and rewatch for the future.
18:57 I think you're mistaken here. When Robotnik asks "Who are they?" I'm fairly certain he's referring SPECIFICALLY to Shadow and Rouge. There's no indication that he doesn't know Knuckles so Sonic 3 could've already happened.
I'm excited for the new Era of sonic games, open zone!
The Open Era!!!
I always thought it made more sense, and was always intended to have Encore mode be after Mania in the main timeline, while Mania Adventures be after Forces in the Classic timeline.
I'm happy to see that you got Classic Sonic right and on top of it fit in things that didn't match the Modern Timeline.
I still find it interesting that Unleashed starts off on the typical ENDING of Sonic. All 7 chaos emeralds, fighting on a space ship, powerful Eggman mecha. It's almost like there was some untold, typical Sonic journey leading up to Unleashed's beginning.
what a brilliant way to end off the Sonic retrospective. i’ve been following since the beginning and loved every second of it. thank you, J, for hours of entertainment and enlightenment about a franchise i love dearly
Funny thing about Sonic Frontiers and, more importantly, the comics and Boom.
Yeah, both of them are canon to some degree as both Tangle and Sticks are referenced by name
This video series was excellent. I truly loved it.
This timeline was far better thought-out than anything I could've come up with.
I would've just said "XYZ said this but it's a contradiction to everything else/I don't like it, so we're ignoring that".
This series did the best to explain and connect everything. And that's great.
This is a sensible headcanon I can follow from here on out.
11:23 yeah but then zones from sonic 4 (white park) show up in the idw comics which are now confirmed cannon according to ian flynn apparently
Sonic just can’t catch a break.
Right after saving the world, Eggman is literally right back to doing something after failing.
Or he gets sucked into a book right after saving the world from Dark Gaia
"From another dimension", I'm pretty sure this was meant to be a joke that fell flat about Classic Sonic being 2-Dimensional Sonic, rather than 3-Dimensional Sonic, not that he isn't from another timeline. I wouldn't take it literally. Especially now with what we know from Frontiers.
I love this franchise, their characters, stories, dynamics, design, music, and the gameplay of course!
Hot take team Sonic racing was actually pretty good with a killer soundtrack
'There is no seried quite like it'. That is it. I feel this. Whenever i thought of sonic it was of adventure, of the value of friendship, of being a better person. I will never forget what sonic was. I will never forget how much i grew with this characters. I will bever forget
I like that you brushed aside the unnecessarily confusing implications that the term “Sonic’s world” brings.
33:41 yeah and also the gaia temples also resemble some of the ruins on the starfall islands
Thanks for making this! Love the passion and level of care you put into all this editing and material.
So I heard Sega was looking for a lore master. You throwing your hat in the ring?
You brushed past it, but Generations 3DS had confirmed that both Colours Wii and DS are canon, due to the wisps that show up in that version of Tropical Resort. Not sure what you'll do with that info, but there you go.
Anyone see this video as an ad? Anyways another great timeline video J
Yeah he paid for the ad
@@schemar17 really cool
Great video J! I started watching your channel with the modern sonic stories video and it has been a treat to see your retrospective through all these years. Can't wait for what you make in the future!
Thanks for cool sonic content j
This is nice to see as a die hard fan that fell off after Hero’s and many of these games just aren’t accessible, are optimized or just aren’t good. I never played anything from Hero’s to Generations and a bit of lost world 3DS outside of 4. This is why I got lost but I feel like maybe I didn’t miss a whole lot. I played Mania, played generations and 4…I just feel like you can now…skip a lot of the 06-Forces aside from Gen and Mania and be better for it.
welcome sonic fans to the endless cycle of waiting for J to cover more things about your favorite franchise. He'll get around to it... eventually.
Never really comment on videos but wanted to thank you for making this video series. Have loved watching it these past almost 3 years. Will continue watching any sonic videos you put out.
I can't believe it has been another week.
Well it was an amazing series.
this was great, truly. it even renewed an interest in sonic for me again and after beating frontiers I started playing SA2 again. I look forward to you mentioning, if at all, the new dlc story content for frontiers once that comes out, and I hope you'll still be here for whenever the next sonic game comes out
Thanks for making this series I’ve been waiting for someone to talk about the sonic timeline. 2022 was a great year for Sonic the hedgehog
I’ve been looking forward to this.
Awesome job
Fun fact: Sonic Unleashed is now ranked as the second most favorite Sonic game amongs Sonic fans. Behind Sonic Adventure 2. And you know what, I think it truly deserves it. Sonic Unleashed is really my favorite Sonic game. Also Sonic Chaos 16 bit, is getting a 16 bit remake but in a style of Sonic Mania, as if Sonic Chaos is the sequel to Sonic Mania. Don’t know if anyone is interested in playing it, but it’s not yet complete.
Where did you get this info? Was there some official poll?
This three-parter's thumbnails really do well with showing off which characters got the headlining in each era-a depressing reminder of the series sharply changing its focus every ten years. Even the Greg Martin art of Sonic and Tails in Part 1's thumbnail, whatever you may think of it in itself, plays into how Sega had twisted the series against its original creators' ends from the start, with only Knuckles getting an Ohshima pic showing how the series was starting to be reclaimed by its creators S3/&K to culminate in Adventure 1, the last Sonic game to even involve Ohshima, before Adventure 2 was plopped on the world albeit for reasons having nothing to do with Ohshima's departure from Sega.
To be fair to Sonic 4 Episode 1 & 2, I think it can fit after Sonic R and before SA1 as the transition between the Classic and Modern Era. The key thing here is that Episode 2 explains what happens to Metal Sonic after CD, and therefore also explains how he returns in Sonic Heroes. There is a high likelihood that these two are the same Metal Sonic, as the one in Heroes has memories of his first encounter with Sonic, and how he felt afraid afterwards. The afraid idea works even better if Metal Sonic lost to Sonic twice consecutively.
The problem is with the cliffhanger ending of 2, but given that Little Planet does not make a future appearance in the main timeline, we can just assume that Little Planet disappears again, especially since Sonic and Tails destroyed the Death Egg Mk II's core that would have prevented that.
With the Death Egg Mk II damaged, Eggman decides to not waste time rebuilding it, and instead creates the Egg Carrier as a replacement, which can sorta lead into SA1.
Sonic Generations splitting Sonic and his Classic version into separate timelines does offer up a lot of explanations for current and past games. Also congrats on this massive retrospective J.
Love the timeline man
will you ever do a full tierlist of all the games? dont even have to make a full video about it because that just seems like a weird way to end off a retrospective like this to me you could just put it on like twitter or smth
Truth be told, I actually think Sonic Triple Trouble, the original GG version, not the remake, could work in the neo-classic timeline since every other Fang appearence is in that parricular timeline, meaning it was an alternate way Classic Sonic and Knuckles met.
These videos did a great job at bringing together all the games where it otherwise wouldn't seem feasible. Great job.
Welp... Now we know for absolute sure that the IDW Comics are canon...
So let's get a fourth video! :D
Its crazy how i haven’t played a single sonic game😅 now i have to
A lot of sonic fans around the world didn't actually play much of the games growing up
They just liked....well sonic
I personally think that Sonic 4 could actually exist within canon just have Sonic Mania going right after it to explain Little Planet being freed from Eggman's influence yet again. Yeah there's the plot hole of the modern designs in Sonic 4 going back to the Classic designs, but what can you do? Another potential way for it to work in canon could be that the Death Egg Mk. II probably exploded offscreen and Little Planet was freed once again after that. Either way I can understand completely why you threw it out of canon since it might be too much of a headache to make work, but I do like the challenge of making things work in a timeline which is why these three videos I think are some of your best work J. I can't wait to see what the future holds for your channel after this amazing send off to your Sonic retrospective.
That's how i explain it, sonic and tails probabbly left it there to come back and free it, the mod with modern sonic could help with the artstyle change. But that means the real ending probabbly doesn't happen.
Also the struggle with determining which is canon between the Wii and DS version of Colors could also easily just be compared to the fact that SA1 and Shadow the Hedgehog are canon, as different campaigns will show contradicting things.
As in 2 different stories in SA1 May should the same scene with different but similar dialogue (probably just meant to represent that characters perspective of the event) and leaving us with knowing the main written scene is canon but not which written script is canon. Or in Shadow the Hedgehog where the same scene might be presented the same way, but each story overall will show a different series of scenes and leave you not knowing which combination of scenes are canon. It’s likely a select collection of scenes across numerous stories are canon but certain parts of each story aren’t.
With Colors it’s like that. Both are canon and you combine them. You just don’t know which details must stay and which can be tossed out here and there.
In my opinion, sonic is the best game franchise ever and I love the games
The 3rd time line is my favorite time line
BTW Sonic generations is the best game in the franchise NO CAP
Oh good…. After advocating for the name “Neo Classic Sonic” for the last 5 - 10 years, someone more popular than me has finally used it. So maybe the fanbase will finally adopt it. lol
Meh, neo classic sounds kinda dumb ngl. Lol
@@michaeldunlap1032 Maybe to you but….. not to me. lol It also makes the most sense and is the perfect name for it to differentiate it from the original classic Sonic. A lot better than “Modern Classic Sonic” or “New Classic Sonic” or “Classic Sonic 2”.
It also sounds similar to Neo Metal Sonic.
Excellent review series for this franchise J! I loved this idea and I think your passion with the series evident in all the ways you talk about it. On that note though if you did wanna cover the other parts of the franchise I would love to hear your thoughts on Sonic X since you mentioned how you first got into Sonic with it and the games released around the time as a fellow person who watched it as one of the first things I found with Sonic in it, I would love to hear your thoughts especially given your 2003 Ninja Turtles video series which was such a nostalgic dream to listen to for me. Don't care if it's positive or negative I feel your words will have the same care and love placed into them!
Frontiers still contradicts Unleashed because Chip said that He and Dark Gaia have been fighting from the beginning of time. So the only way I can see it making sense is that Chip used the Chaos Emeralds as a way to fix the Earth after the Ancients changed into Chao.
Sonic 1998-2009: “Wanna see me have long ass overarching stories throughout multiple games?”
Sonic 2020-present: “Wanna see me do it again?”
Edit: Also I don’t like the fact that Sega is trying to make everything canon now because it’s just impossible to do so because games like Generations and Forces and characters like Blaze and Classic Sonic will always contradict each other.
I salute anyone who has managed to beat all of the hot dog stand missions in Eggmanland. You are a literal god.
Great Retrospective!!
My headcanon is that The werehog form is Sonic's equivalent of perfect chaos.
Edit: considering that your character gets cloned in sonic the fighters and there are 8 emeralds in that game, does that mean the "8th emerald" gets created and becomes the phantom ruby?
Thank you till 40 years !
21:32
Also it's been recently stated that knuckles chaotix has been put back into Cannon can't wait for them to explain that mess
Hopefully they'll actually port it to something because they seem really averse to it even while simultaneously acknowledging it
Hey, what if you did a map of the sonic zones in the world? I have always wondered what it would look like and it would be cool to see your view of it
Great work dude, and pretty good timeline too