It's important to note that Sonic X was written by members of Sonic team and often elaborates on events and specific things in the Sonic canon while also telling it's own non-canon story like explaining why Maria was on the ark to begin with, that being her disease and Shadow being used as a way to cure maria while also doing research for G.U.N.
Supposedly that was all going to be in Adventure 2 itself but they either ran out of time or disc space or something. And whether X itself was supposed to outright be the true canon then or not is debated. Doesn't excuse both Adventure 2 and X downgrading Sonic's friends, though; bad form to have the games suggest one thing early and then another later in ostensibly the same timeline.
Supposedly that was all going to be in Adventure 2 itself but they either ran out of time or disc space or something. And whether X itself was supposed to outright be the true canon then or not is debated. Doesn't excuse both Adventure 2 and X downgrading Sonic's friends, though; anyone's preferences aside, bad form to have the games suggest one thing early and then another later in ostensibly the same timeline.
Here's a little headcanon I've always had: In the Japanese manual of Sonic 1, it says Eggman and Sonic have been enemies who have fought several times before. My personal headcanon is that SegaSonic the Hedgehog was one such adventure. It's also said that making the animal-powered Badniks and using the Chaos Emeralds were new ideas Eggman came up with for Sonic 1, and neither appear in SegaSonic. It could also serve as the way Sonic first met Mighty and Ray before Mania.
If we want to stretch this; in Waku Waku Sonic Patrol Car, Eggman literally introduces himself. (Washi na wa Dokuta Egguman!) This would make that the most logical choice for Sonic's first canonical encounter with Eggman, as this kind of introduction does not happen in any other game.
@@cabbusses Maybe, but I personally don't find it in character for Sonic to have a job as a police officer. The basic concept of the game for me just doesn't fit, even with how much I stretch stuff. Maybe Cosmo Fighter, but Patrol Car just doesn't really make since to me
@@MisterMistea Sonic flying off in a spaceship to take Eggman on when he never used that ship against a Death Egg has more holes in it than Sonic going in law enforcement for a paycheck, really. Of course, that is not to say Sonic as a police officer is completely hole-less, as it is never mentioned in Sonic Adventure 2 in spite of it being a potential drama hook. Imagine if the guys sent to arrest Sonic recognized him and reminisced about eating donuts together...
@@erikbihari3625 I assume you meant 2 and not 3 but I'll say both anyways: S2 released in november of 92, CD in september of 93 and S3 in february of 94
The genesis games in particular are in that magic era of gaming where the game gives just enough backstory and is able to convey just enough story to allow your imagination to fill in the rest. Imagining how Sonic 1 can be a coming of age story for Sonic himself, and then in 2 that baton of growth is passed onto Tails showing how Sonic inspires others, a central pillar of his character, haha. CD's opening sets the stage and frames Sonic's character and world, getting me hyped to play out that fantasy. Then 3&K is just epic through and through. It's also so fun to imagine the culture and history of each and every island given just enough details in the environments to let the imagination run wild - the classic Sonic games often REALLY feel like plunging into ancient fantasy history like an epic Indiana Jones explorer.
This is a thing i love about Sonic, He helps people who has some sort of problem, Like with Tails, Blaze, Sharha, Marine etc. After all, Sonic represent everything good in the world
@@themissingbits6375 You forgot the parts where they return the favors. Sonic doesn't have to be the ONLY force of good at his level; he can help others be their best and even be heroes as well, with him, with others or solo. They're all in the fight together.
I can see why Metal Sonic became such a fan favourite, tbh I have always loved his design too. But... I always preferred the Sonic & Knuckles Mecha Sonic. That thing is badass.
The seven Dragon Balls don't turn you super, they grant a wish. So the Chaos Emeralds and Super forms, while similar to the Dragon Balls and Super Saiyan forms, are not the same in execution.
Was looking for a comment that said this. Plus, the Super Saiyan in Dragon Ball is activated through rage (for universe 7 Saiyans), and it’s not invisible, just extremely strong.
Way back in 2015 I made my own Sonic timeline for the Classic era. I included Sonic 1 8-bit in my timeline as a What If Sequel for Sonic 1 on the Genesis. My reason being at the end of the final boss of the 16-bit version the player can jump to attack Eggman's Egg Mobile one last time or let him escape unharmed. If you do attack him, his Egg Mobile explodes and he runs away with the vehicle on fire. I like to believe if you let Eggman escape unharmed he continues his schemes on South Island, leading of the events of the 8-Bit version. In the perfecf ending of the 8-bit version of Sonic 1 there's an extra cutscene where Sonic uses the Chaos Emeralds to remove the pollution of South Island. For me this the real defeat of Dr Eggman on South Island. If Sonic attack him in the ending of the 16 bit version, the 8 bit version of Sonic 1 never happens.
yeah i do find it interesting to have a split second choice at the end of Sonic 1 to judge the difference between Sonic 1 8-bit or Sonic 2 8-bit going forward
I always saw 8 bit and 16 bit as the same story if that makes sense. I like to think Sonic went through all the zones in both games all in one adventure, despite the obvious differences Edit: an example could be Green Hill, Bridge, then Marble, so the zones are intertwined with one another. Parts of Labyrinth or Scrap Brain could simply be different areas within the zone
I kind of just imagined that all the zones from both versions of the game are equally canon, except for Sky Base because I feel like giving Robotnik an aerial base _this_ early is just too... easy? idk Therefore, the zone progression might go *Green Hill > Bridge > Marble > Jungle > Labyrinth > Spring Yard > Star Light > Scrap Brain* in my hc
@@SocksFCGameArchives Considering people completely miss the obvious at every corner and take the "Stages from Sonic's memory" too literally for Gens, I'm pretty sure people are just dense. This idea is heavily supported by people still quoting the Forces-translation error about Classic Sonic, even after being told that it was a translation error multiple times.
I'm not sure if I would say the music in Sonic R is out of place, I think it fits with the racing quite well, also it rocks, though we can agree on that one.
Ian Flynn said that Origins is a one big retcon for the classic games. There aren't any Game Gear games between Sonic 1 and Sonic 2, because they meet at West Side and zoomed directly into Sonic 2. After that, every Game Gear game is after 3 and Knuckles. They go by release order (except Blast and Tails' Adventure but i'll get into that) and the only confusion here is that Skypatrol and Labyrinth take place at the same time. Now, this is weird, but the game here is Sonic the Fighters. Sonic fights his friends and the Hooligans to get the Chaos Emeralds. He escapes, etc. Key is that Nack is here and stole an emerald. There are 8 emeralds, because a person joined the tournament with a fake. Spinball is canon, but freedom fighters are not canon. There are 16 emeralds because Eggman mass produced fake emeralds. 3D Blast happens, and not much to say here. R happens after it, and there's a protagonist split. Sonic lives SegaSonic and Blast, while Tails goes his own way to live Tails' Adventure. Pocket Adventure isn't canon, and Modern timeline starts here.
I thought Fighters would occur in the classic timeline and foreshadow the fake chaos emerald used in SA2, but I'll wait til the 2nd part, this is a really cool idea!
The existence of an 8th Chaos Emerald does not make sense unless it could be Sonic Adventure 2's "fake emerald"... Yet putting Fighters after SA2 breaks the heavily implied rule that all "Classic era" games take place before Sonic Adventure, and the "Classic" designs are always younger versions of the characters. What a conundrum...
@@Big_twat23 Arguably many things in Mania are more references for the fans than things of plot importance. Chaotix music is used for the Knuckles&Knuckles ending even though Sega said the Heroes Chaotix are reboots that ignore their first appearance. Unfortunately these kind of things are why there's a bit of continuity snarl.
I see Tails' Adventure to take place near Sky Patrol personally. There's the Sonic/Knux/Fang items and it shows Tails working with significantly more complex machinery than the Tornado.
My fav story must be black knight. Like how they connect it to unleasched with sonic and amys date and the 2 chili dogs he has in the intro. It actually connects to unleasched
This is my headcanon for the whole Robotic Sonic doppelganger situation: Silver Sonic was Robotnik's first attempt in making a Robot Sonic and is the only one named "Silver Sonic". After Silver Sonic was defeated easily by Sonic, Robotnik assumed it was because his speed was not enough to compete with Sonic's, so he decides to give the next robotic Sonic the speed it needs to keep up with and possibly beat Sonic. Next up is Metal Sonic. Metal Sonic was made before the events of CD and this robotic Sonic was designed to compete with Sonic's speed. Aside from being given immense speed, he was given the following: The ability to fly, the ability to break through metal spikes, a little bit of Sonic's personality, and...that boost thing he does when you race him. Even though Metal Sonic was faster compared to Silver Sonic, he wasn't fast enough to beat Sonic in a race. Another weakness he had was his durability, and that was one of the factors that led Metal to it's downfall. Next is Mecha Sonic MK 1(this is the Mecha Sonic in Sonic 2 Genesis). Robotnik accepts the fact that Sonic can't be outrun, but he can be beaten in strength (without the Chaos Emeralds or any help) given it wasn't his strong point. So he goes back to Silver Sonic and essentially makes a, somewhat, better version of him. He makes this robotic Sonic bigger, heavier, stronger, more durable, able to shoot his quils, and it can't be bounced back in it's ball form by Sonic. Mecha Sonic was basically a tank, but the problem that Silver Sonic had was increased and added upon too. He was way slower, less versatile, and it kept giving Sonic more openings to attack him. Robotnik went back to the drawing board once again. For Mecha Sonic MK 2, I'd like to think that Robotnik already started designing him after he made Mecha Sonic MK 1 as a contingency plan. After tricking Knuckles, Robotnik gets started on building Mecha Sonic MK 2. For this robo hedgie, Robotnik looks at all the failed robotic Sonics and tries to make a robotic Sonic that has non of their weaknesses. He comes up with a solution to their weaknesses by giving Mecha Sonic MK 2 all of their best feats and then some. He gives Mecha Sonic MK 2 the following feats: Mecha Sonic MK 1's size advantage, strength, and durability; Metal Sonic's color and aggressiveness; Silver Sonic's...eyes (I guess?); made him smarter; and (after figuring out how to harness the power of the Master Emerald) he gives him the ability to absorb the power of the Master Emerald. Like all of it's other robo Hedgie Brothers, Mecha Sonic MK 2 gets defeated by not only Sonic and Tails, but Knuckles too. After Robotnik loses to Hyper Sonic, he lands in the middle of the ocean with nothing and Mecha Sonic was abandoned. Since he no longer has or even know what happened to Mecha Sonic MK 2, he just assumes Mecha failed to Sonic and starts from scratch again. He was on the right track when making Mecha Sonic MK 2, so he just does the same thing but better. Since he doesn't have Mecha MK 2, he just uses one of his other designs instead. He chooses Metal Sonic since he was the best of what he had and gets to rebuilding him and giving him Mecha Sonic's feats. Despite Metal Sonic failing multiple times against Sonic and his friends since then, Eggman still kept using him and improving him. He tried designing a different Robo Sonic (SA1's mysterious robot Sonic), but scrapped that idea.
This is an interesting change from your usual video, and I’m looking forward to the next one. That being said I have a lot to comment on. First, three nitpicks. The Sonic 2 Genesis Sonic-bot is not named Silver Sonic in the games, not even in America. He was ‘Mecha Sonic’ in Japan and that’s what they revert to using today. ‘Robo Sonic’ from Lego would’ve also been acceptable. Second minor nitpick. I’m curious why you used the American boxarts. I don’t know about you but to me the Japanese boxarts are almost always superior, unless it’s a clone of another game like in the case of Sonic 2 for Master System/Game Gear. Third nitpick, but I think getting hung up on Eggman tricking Knuckles again in Triple Trouble was a non-issue. It’s happened plenty of times in Modern after Sonic 3. I don’t think it’s that farfetched. Eggman is good at tricking the gullible yet heroic Knuckles. Bringing in fangames is neat but sorta icky because it makes me think, why not bring in more fangames you like? Sonic and the Fallen Star, Sonic Robo Blast 1 and 2, Sonic Before and After the Sequel, etc. You didn’t mention the other Master System games getting remakes either, and those are a lot more faithful than the pure fanfic that is Sonic 3D in 2D or Triple Trouble. Onto the real meat. I think leaving out games that seemingly have no plot like Waku Waku Sonic Patrol Car or SegaSonic Cosmo Fighter is a mistake because it could've made things really interesting. Just going off of games that have stories is pretty boring in that anyone can do that, but adding those other games would’ve really freshened it up and made it “your take”. The Drift games don’t have serious big stories but they do have forewords from the characters so I think leaving them out was also pretty lame considering they went through the effort to write those. You added Sonic R, which is good, but the story to go off is practically on the same tier. Adding Sonic Drift 2, for example, might end up explaining what Knuckles was doing on South Island for Sonic Blast, and later Sonic the Fighters, which you left out. AS for the games you left out, I take issue with the fact that you changed or filled stuff in to offer changes and alternatives to some, but just disgard others. I like the fix for the GameGear Sonic 2. That one is just kinda hard to piece together. But if you can fix that with headcanon, why not Spinball? You’ve used Sonic Origins, which is good, but Origins also has the Veg-o-Fortress in it. Some version of Spinball happened (I know we’re ignoring larger statements and whatnot but even Ian Flynn says it’s canon now), so providing a fix or retconning the details that don’t line up (SatAM cast, extra Emeralds) that would’ve been neat. I don’t know why you left out Sonic the Fighters either. I presume it’s due to Espio’s presence and the extra Chaos Emerald, but again if you felt both of these were issues, you could’ve changed them or provided fixes. And on that note, I’m not sure why you’re tossing out Knuckles Chaotix. I know you said to keep it an open mind about later, as I suspect it’s about Heroes revitalizing the Chaotix and somewhat decanonizing KC, but I don’t think this was necessary. Knuckles Chaotix is being reintegrated into Classic canon today, down to even the Speedia reforming the characterizations to go more with their new counterparts. So this is another instance where I feel, why not just go with these changes? You took a lot of leeway to make changes for the Sonic 2 conundrum, and even brought up Triple Trouble’s remake because of the cool stuff you thought it added, so I don’t at this point see a good reason to leave out KC and the plethora of cool stuff it added too. And I suppose in relation to Mighty I have to ask why you left out SegaSonic at all, but I assume this'll be brought up in the Mania stuff two videos from now. Lastly. I like the placements for Sonic Chaos, Tails Skypatrol, and Sonic Labyrinth, but you made having 6 Emeralds a sticking point, yet placed Labyrinth, a game with 5 Emeralds on South Island, where you did. Since Labyrinth and Skypatrol ARE canonically simultaneous, I think placing each of them earlier might’ve worked, taking into account what you did with Sonic Chaos. Not sure if you’ll even read all this, but I await what’s to come and plan to dissect those the same way.
He’s said in his 1-3K video that he likes the USA box arts more. As for why other classic games aren’t here stay tuned because it’ll make more sense later. (He won’t be including the goat Waku Waku Sonic Patrol car.)
With S1SMS, we can say that it can take place after the Genesis version since the Emeralds are this time scattered through the island like what happened in the end of the Genesis version. Sky Base exists after Scrap Brain, this can imply that Robotnik could’ve been moving to another location and was just trying to get his Scrap Brain stuff with him and occasionally try to stop Sonic
With the whole Nack/Fang thing, I like to see it as Nack the Weasel is his real name and Fang the Sniper is something he came up with that sounds more menacing
24:21: "Sonic, Tails and Knuckles set out to stop this. By that I mean, Sonic does all the real work and the other two stand around..." Pretty much sums the dissatisfactory nature of the 2010s game plots.
As always, great video! Most fans, including the modern writers themselves forget how much the Sonic 2 8bit and Knuckles campaign in 3&K contribute to later events. Especially how Silver Sonic in Sonic 2 8bit act as a prototype for Mecha Sonic, but how that boss acts as a blue print for all of eggman's attempts at creating a cybernetic clone of sonic alla Neo Metal Sonic in heroes. One way that the video really made me appreciate the lore is despite the lack of story, it really stayed consistent with its continuity unlike most 3rd and 4th gen platformers Say for example how in the JP manual for Sonic 1, it states that "Chaos Emeralds are a super substance, giving energy to all living things." So for little instances like how Mecha Sonic harnessing the master emeralds power really shows how the Sega Technical Institute and Sega of Japan really gave the world building and lore a lot of thought. As always, keep up the great work J!
20:11 I think the Game Gear games have their own timeline that is different than Genesis games timeline (think of it like the OG Dragon Ball movies if you watched), so it's make sense that Knuckles tricked by Eggman for first time in Game Gear title.
One thing that I was really curious about was the sonic CD-esque cutscene where Amy Rose is using what appeared to be Tarot cards. Like, I played Sonic CD a lot as a kid but I've never seen that scene, and it's never really been mentioned in other Sonic games. So it just has me wondering more about her character.
That's from the new Sonic Origins compilation and uses a plot element from the Japanese game manual where it stated that Amy decided to follow Sonic to Little Planet after her cards told her that she was due a fateful meeting with him.
This is a pretty damn good video J. I definitely like your reasoning for these games' placements and the reasoning for excluding some of the games makes complete sense. Only games missing from this era seems to be SEGASonic the Hedgehog and Sonic the Fighters but I figure you'll either address that in one of the later videos or understandably couldn't figure out a place on the timeline for them, which makes sense considering those two arcade games are kinda hard to place. Overall though can't wait to see the next video, especially considering what Sonic Frontiers did for the Lore of Sonic in regards to these games.
Before anyone gets angry… Sonic CD comes after the Death Egg Saga in Sonic 3, it’s a solo adventure before everyone comes back together for Adventure/Mania. I say this because Tails appears in the D.A. Garden flying the Tornado, meaning he had to have gotten it from Sonic before the events of the game. Not to mention Amy, who would make more sense to see in Adventure directly after CD, especially with the flashbacks and references to that adventure, as if it had just happened.
Despite Sonic The Hedgehog being the first Sonic game, it’s actually not the first time Sonic and Eggman have crossed paths. Not sure if there is a game that shows if Sonic and Eggman has crossed paths before though. Actually, Eggman’s animals in robots idea is an idea he had first during Sonic 1 so if we can find a game that has no animals in robots and makes sense to come before Sonic 1 then we could find the first game in the timeline.
@@whiterabbit3050 It has Badniks but animals don’t pop out once defeated. The only thing I wonder is, would Robotnik really capture and torture teenagers? However this is Robotnik we’re talking about. This also makes Sonic finding Mighty and Ray in Sonic Mania Plus’ encore mode even more special considering they haven’t seen each other in ages.
If I may contest something: I think the idea of Tails Adventures taking place before Sonic 1 has a big hole in it when you consider Tails' Sonic 2 backstory. Am I really expected to believe Tails' would be a social pariah on an island he saved from destruction over a perceived physical defect? Tails having ANY solo adventure before Sonic Adventure 1 establishes his intended character development arc presents problems with Tails Adventures and Skypatrol in the timeline, as well. Why would Tails' feel insecure about being in Sonic's shadow after quests like that? Edit: also, while I perfectly understand if you feel it does not fit the timeline (8th Chaos Emerald and all...), are you going to mention Sonic the Fighters? You don't have SegaSomic the Hedgehog on this timeline either, which may present problems when you get to Sonic Mania.
Plus Tails can fly in Tails’ Adventure which the story of Sonic 2 suggests he learned how to by trying to keep up with Sonic, though I think this maybe goes without being said lol
Tails Adventure doesn’t take place on West Side Island. It takes place on Cocoa Island. Canonically, Tails lives on West Side Island and that’s the only place he’s been stated to be bullied in.
“Everything is Canon” they say. In our minds that is. The same can be said about Mario, Dragon Ball, Zelda, even Mega Man. Even if some non canon material and elements for time skips could come to head-canons. For example my buddy has GT to be his head canon, in spite of Toriyama saying that it’s not canon to his story and sometimes reckoning a few points in his franchise.
Nice video! Sonic CD is definitely a direct sequel to Sonic The Hedgehog. I mean Sonic 1 and CDs Sonic sprite look the same! And CD feels more like sequel to Sonic 1.
Surprised you haven't mentioned Sonic the Fighters, since while its canonicity is debatable due to its wacky plot and the existence of an eighth Chaos Emerald, still does have a story kind of like Sonic R.
6:06 thanks for this, actually. I played all of this stuff back in the day. I started with STH 2, but begged my grandparents for the first game afterwards. I was always really confused about "Eggman", but in my defense I wasn't reading any manuals lol. I was like 4. Believe it or not, Sonic 3 was the first game release I was ever hyped for. Well, that and maybe Jurassic Park Rampage Edition, but I never played that back then. I just drooled over it in the store and never convinced anyone to buy it. I may have been hyped for Super Mario World too, because Yoshi. I love dinos, always have.
Ey bro just wanna say I like your content. Well edited, pleasent voice, no disgusting ads (hello manscape), does a good job staying on topic without weird tangents.
In the Sonic 3 manual, it says Sonic and Tails landed on an unnamed island and laid low for a while and the plot kicks off with Tails building the jewel radar and Sonic finding a ring that told more of the history of the chaos emeralds written on it.
The comment about the McDonald's promotion and Sega's priorities is pretty uncharitable. Splitting the game up gave the devs the breathing room they needed to deliver on time without cutting back on the scope of the combined game or going into even more crunch time. They went as far as to add bonus content for Sonic 2, which required modifying Sonic 2's code and shipping the patch on an extra chip in S&K!
You forgot to mention the other reason sonic 3 was split into two games: Technical limitations. The genesis cart did not have enough room to hold the whole game.
8:36 Metal Sonic exists also perhaps Mecha Sonic MK0 (he was called Mecha Sonic in the JPN version) could have been built earlier and Robotnik just got around to using him finally
J, questions. Heard of Sonic Christmas blast? You'll see Sonic Prime? Gonna discuss Sonic casting ideas? Other Sonic media will be talked in diffrent video? Cover stuff besides the games?
Spoiler warning for Sonic Frontiers. The problem with some of this is that now we have some side series as canon thanks to Frontiers. Like Sticks being mentioned in the ending and the eggman memos directly referencing the kingdom from sonic racing. But like you mentioned its your headcannon. And i personally also agree that these should remain seperate
For me personally, the classic era does not only include the 90s. The classic era goes from Sonic 1 all the way up to the end of Sonic Adventure 2. That whole span of 10 years is the classic era IMO. If Sonic 3 went 3D like it was initially conceived to, the classic era would end by Sonic 2 Sonic Heroes is where the modern era begins for me personally. It just changes so many things: -Big's design has legs and not just feet -Super Sonic has new quills and no longer references the HPZ mural -The Chaotix are reintroduced as completely new characters -Shadow's whole character starts over and more It just wouldn't be fair to lump the adventure games into the modern era when heroes either throws it out or changes it. Now, if heroes included characters like Mighty, Fang, etc like also initally planned, it would fit as one cohesive timeline. But as far as im concerned, the modern Chaotix mark the official modern era of Sonic
Gonna be interesting watching this series after all the lore in Frontiers, especially once you get to Sonic Adventure. Even just seeing the Sonic 3 footage here finally knowing the Ancients built the Sky Sanctuary is very strange feeling
@@alexgomez6723 I doubt it, most of the original escape ships were likely used in the construction at Starfall, and Sonic Adventure shows that the Angel Island area was part of a larger landmass before the Perfect Chaos incident and the area having to be made to levitate harnessing the power of the Master Emerald, in order to keep it away from those who'd try to shatter it or use it for the wrong reasons like the echidnas did. The only things the Ancients built regarding the Angel Island area is the Emerald shrine and Sky Sanctuary, it's a dark implication but it would make sense for them to not build up a ton of stuff when they don't know whether or not The End will STAY sealed away.
12:30 My headcanon on Sonic 2 is that Sonic got all seven Emeralds, but couldn't go Super at the end because there weren't any rings on the Death Egg, meaning he couldn't collect 50 of them. Tails had to save Sonic because of that. Yes, technically, no such ending exists, but I don't care.
Gonna put these into a numbered list to make it easier to see and (if you choose to) respond to each point. 1. I would definitely use only the Japanese sources pre-Sonic Adventure 1, as back in that era Sonic very explicitly had different continuities depending on the region. Japan, the US, and the UK all had their own defined Sonic canon. 2. There's no reason that the Game Gear/Master System version of Sonic 1 can't exist as part of the Genesis/Mega Drive version of Sonic 1, especially when Colours DS very explicitly sets the precedent that the "lesser version" contains canonical details (Burst, Void, Mother Wisp) 3. Sonic 1's manual VERY EXPLICITLY establishes that Sonic and Dr. Eggman did not meet in that game. They already knew each other and were already fighting. If you take Forces's claims seriously (I don't), they've even been fighting for "decades". 4. There's many games that take place on South Island, and Sonic Origins already establishes that Sonic went through the Little Planet adventure prior to his adventure in Sonic 2 (where he meets Tails). In addition, Sonic 2's manual ALSO makes it explicitly clear that Dr. Eggman followed Sonic to Westside Island in hopes of getting the Chaos Emeralds. Last but not least, using the Sonic robots as an indication of Eggman's tech getting better doesn't make sense when we already know for a fact that Metal Sonic comes before both Mecha Sonics, and explicitly gets revived (not rebuilt or replaced, revived) in Sonic 4. You can just place Game Gear/Master System Sonic 2 after Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and add another South Island adventure after that point too. Sonic Origins also shows that the Chaos Emeralds travelled directly from South Island to Westside Island, meaning that no Chaos Emerald adventures can take place between the two games. 5. Sonic Triple Trouble (which has to take place after Sonic 3 & Knuckles for, well, obvious reasons) also features 6 Chaos Emeralds, it's not unreasonable to guess that hey, maybe not all 6 appeared in the adventure. Especially since, thanks to Origins, Sonic knew there was a 7th Chaos Emerald as early as Sonic 1. 6. Tricky thing about any non-CD classic era game featuring Metal Sonic is... Sonic 4. Metal Sonic gets abandoned in Sonic CD until Sonic 4 rolls around, by which point Sonic is already in his modern design (a detail whose canonicity is supported by Sonic Generations characters pointing out differences in c. Sonic's appearance when he saves them, and Sonic Forces Tails being able to recognise c. Sonic as distinct after just a second's worth of looking at him. This impacts Triple Trouble, Knuckles Chaotix, Sonic Drift 2 and Sonic R. I would include Sonic the Fighters, but 8 Chaos Emeralds lmao. 7. You toss out Knuckles Chaotix because of the interview during Sonic Heroes, right? Well Sonic Mania includes very explicit references to Knuckles Chaotix, so I think it's actually tossed back INTO the main canonicity because of that. We can just treat the new characterisation of the crew as a retcon. 8. Sonic Drift and Sonic Drift 2 actually DO have a story. The story is in the manual and extremely minimal, but long story short is there's a racing tournament and the Chaos Emeralds are the prize. Sonic and friends (and Dr. Eggman) all enter for their own reasons in order to win. It's an incredibly basic story, but it's still a story all the same. 9. Sonic Labyrinth's manual actually also mentions that Tails left a letter saying he's off on his own adventure, exactly what he's doing in Tails' Skypatrol, so that connection is actually intended, which is neat. 10. Sonic 3D Blast and Sonic Blast actually aren't a tie-in to each other, something which is clear if you look at their Japanese names (Sonic 3D Blast is just called Sonic 3D: Flickies' Island). The Western version just tried to retroactively make them a tie-in. I'd say your timeline is decent overall, definitely better than a majority of timelines. And while I'm at it, I might as well share the timeline that I worked most of a year on, so that you can see where my own thoughts land on it if you wish. www.tumblr.com/numbugwritingblog/700266480030400512/sonic-the-hedgehog-timeline?source=share
It seems to me that the 8-bit/handheld games are meant to be a different continuity. Hence the confusion about when Sonic met Tails, and Knuckles apparently being fooled into thinking Sonic is a villain twice.
Triple Trouble 16-bit and 3D in 2D are _perfectly reasonable_ to include in a timeline because they're just fan retellings of official games. I love Fallen Star and BtS/AtS too, but I fully support J's decision to not include them.
4 Horsemen of Sonic Canon: Classic Era at some points, Shadow the Hedgehog game, Sonic Forces, are IDW Comics canon? Tangle was mentioned in Frontiers (one of few spoilers I know) and Sticks from Boom series...
Gotta be real here, Origins didn't really laid to rest on where the canonical placement of CD is located on the timeline, especially when it disregarded developer statements made about CD's development just to make it canon before 2.
Fun fact: Fang was originally meant to be named “Nack” But they changed it to Fang because the Way you prenounce “Nack” is very simelar to Knuckles. In english we dont have that problem so we called him his original name. But nowadays his name is What he is known as in Japan “Fang the sniper” But i do like the idea that “Nack” is a name that he goes by but it not his real name, i mean he is an criminal after all maybe he goes by many fake names, one of Them could be Nack.
Encyclo-speed-ia stated S3&K takes place few days after S2, probably no big difference, but that could technically explain why Sonic goes super after ringless fight with death egg robot.
Sonic giving Eggman his name, CD coming between 1 and 2 and other things are popular fanon that became canon because SEGA didn’t feel the need to figure it out themselves. I wouldn’t put it past them to eventually just say “yeah that’s a good idea. So basically the Knuckles in Triple Trouble IS there because of that instead of just hosting tricked again.”
If you can headcanon Sonic Triple Trouble 16-bit, then I suggest adding Sonic Before the Sequel, Sonic After the Sequel and Sonic Chrono Adventure too. They match the quality of classic games and the story of Before the Sequel and Sonic After the Sequel fit, well, before and after the sequel. And the story from After the Sequel is continued in Chrono Adventure.
@@fawkesthefox912 I think TT16B has better level design and story, but they are worth playing anyway. On tier list I would put them in the same tier of "must play" fan games.
Fun fact--the PC version of Sonic CD's manual doesn't have that problem at all. It's word-for-word that synopsis, but with Amy instead of Sally, the way it should be. I oughta know--it's the first version I ever owned. 😜
8:09 we have games like Sonic Labrynth where Robotnik tries to convert South Island into Robotnik land and Sonic Chaos where South Island starts sinking when Robotnik gets his hands on the Chaos Emeralds
This has been my head cannon for years and I’m sticking with it sonic 1 cd 2 3&k 3d blast 4 episodes1-2 adventures1-2 advance1-2 heroes advance 3 rush rush adventure 06 secret rings black knight unleashed colors generations lost world forces and as of this date frontiers
It's important to note that Sonic X was written by members of Sonic team and often elaborates on events and specific things in the Sonic canon while also telling it's own non-canon story like explaining why Maria was on the ark to begin with, that being her disease and Shadow being used as a way to cure maria while also doing research for G.U.N.
And that Sonic actually let himself get captured the second time so he could learn more about Shadow
Supposedly that was all going to be in Adventure 2 itself but they either ran out of time or disc space or something. And whether X itself was supposed to outright be the true canon then or not is debated. Doesn't excuse both Adventure 2 and X downgrading Sonic's friends, though; bad form to have the games suggest one thing early and then another later in ostensibly the same timeline.
Supposedly that was all going to be in Adventure 2 itself but they either ran out of time or disc space or something. And whether X itself was supposed to outright be the true canon then or not is debated. Doesn't excuse both Adventure 2 and X downgrading Sonic's friends, though; anyone's preferences aside, bad form to have the games suggest one thing early and then another later in ostensibly the same timeline.
I think that stuff you mentioned was in the Japanese guidebook for SA2.
@@AidGum that's what I meant when I said elaborate. Because it was ultimately not mentioned in game.
Here's a little headcanon I've always had:
In the Japanese manual of Sonic 1, it says Eggman and Sonic have been enemies who have fought several times before. My personal headcanon is that SegaSonic the Hedgehog was one such adventure. It's also said that making the animal-powered Badniks and using the Chaos Emeralds were new ideas Eggman came up with for Sonic 1, and neither appear in SegaSonic. It could also serve as the way Sonic first met Mighty and Ray before Mania.
If we want to stretch this; in Waku Waku Sonic Patrol Car, Eggman literally introduces himself. (Washi na wa Dokuta Egguman!)
This would make that the most logical choice for Sonic's first canonical encounter with Eggman, as this kind of introduction does not happen in any other game.
@@cabbusses Maybe, but I personally don't find it in character for Sonic to have a job as a police officer. The basic concept of the game for me just doesn't fit, even with how much I stretch stuff. Maybe Cosmo Fighter, but Patrol Car just doesn't really make since to me
@@MisterMistea Sonic flying off in a spaceship to take Eggman on when he never used that ship against a Death Egg has more holes in it than Sonic going in law enforcement for a paycheck, really.
Of course, that is not to say Sonic as a police officer is completely hole-less, as it is never mentioned in Sonic Adventure 2 in spite of it being a potential drama hook. Imagine if the guys sent to arrest Sonic recognized him and reminisced about eating donuts together...
It also says it also says Sonic 1 is the first time Eggman has ever serious posed a threat to Sonic.
Mind blowing
Imma just say this now....CD comes before 2. That is all
Edit: I forgot about Origins canonizing this when I wrote this comment
Did cd even debute before 3? I know they come the same year, but maybe they could've had diffrent mounths and all!
@@erikbihari3625 yes it did
@@erikbihari3625 CD came out in 1993, Sonic 3 released the year after
@@erikbihari3625 I assume you meant 2 and not 3 but I'll say both anyways: S2 released in november of 92, CD in september of 93 and S3 in february of 94
Also sonic origins is canon which also had sonic CD before 2 so your point is factual.
The genesis games in particular are in that magic era of gaming where the game gives just enough backstory and is able to convey just enough story to allow your imagination to fill in the rest. Imagining how Sonic 1 can be a coming of age story for Sonic himself, and then in 2 that baton of growth is passed onto Tails showing how Sonic inspires others, a central pillar of his character, haha. CD's opening sets the stage and frames Sonic's character and world, getting me hyped to play out that fantasy. Then 3&K is just epic through and through. It's also so fun to imagine the culture and history of each and every island given just enough details in the environments to let the imagination run wild - the classic Sonic games often REALLY feel like plunging into ancient fantasy history like an epic Indiana Jones explorer.
This is a thing i love about Sonic, He helps people who has some sort of problem, Like with Tails, Blaze, Sharha, Marine etc. After all, Sonic represent everything good in the world
@@themissingbits6375 You forgot the parts where they return the favors. Sonic doesn't have to be the ONLY force of good at his level; he can help others be their best and even be heroes as well, with him, with others or solo. They're all in the fight together.
I know that
Damm well said .lol
I can see why Metal Sonic became such a fan favourite, tbh I have always loved his design too. But... I always preferred the Sonic & Knuckles Mecha Sonic. That thing is badass.
Finally! a timeline video made by an actual fan
The seven Dragon Balls don't turn you super, they grant a wish.
So the Chaos Emeralds and Super forms, while similar to the Dragon Balls and Super Saiyan forms, are not the same in execution.
Was looking for a comment that said this. Plus, the Super Saiyan in Dragon Ball is activated through rage (for universe 7 Saiyans), and it’s not invisible, just extremely strong.
Way back in 2015 I made my own Sonic timeline for the Classic era. I included Sonic 1 8-bit in my timeline as a What If Sequel for Sonic 1 on the Genesis. My reason being at the end of the final boss of the 16-bit version the player can jump to attack Eggman's Egg Mobile one last time or let him escape unharmed. If you do attack him, his Egg Mobile explodes and he runs away with the vehicle on fire. I like to believe if you let Eggman escape unharmed he continues his schemes on South Island, leading of the events of the 8-Bit version.
In the perfecf ending of the 8-bit version of Sonic 1 there's an extra cutscene where Sonic uses the Chaos Emeralds to remove the pollution of South Island. For me this the real defeat of Dr Eggman on South Island. If Sonic attack him in the ending of the 16 bit version, the 8 bit version of Sonic 1 never happens.
yeah i do find it interesting to have a split second choice at the end of Sonic 1 to judge the difference between Sonic 1 8-bit or Sonic 2 8-bit going forward
I always saw 8 bit and 16 bit as the same story if that makes sense. I like to think Sonic went through all the zones in both games all in one adventure, despite the obvious differences
Edit: an example could be Green Hill, Bridge, then Marble, so the zones are intertwined with one another. Parts of Labyrinth or Scrap Brain could simply be different areas within the zone
That is a neat idea.
@@SocksFCGameArchives nice pfp
I kind of just imagined that all the zones from both versions of the game are equally canon, except for Sky Base because I feel like giving Robotnik an aerial base _this_ early is just too... easy? idk
Therefore, the zone progression might go *Green Hill > Bridge > Marble > Jungle > Labyrinth > Spring Yard > Star Light > Scrap Brain* in my hc
Let's goooooo! Was expecting the Frontiers video to be the last Sonic related content for a while but this has been a pleasant surprise :D
So that means you haven't watched the entire video.
@@UnknownNullNullNull Even the title itself tells that THIS WON'T BE THE ONLY ONE!
Shut up
Stop doing "let's go" and that cringe tongue sticking out thing that isn't even in emoji form.
Finally, someone actually acknowledges how Knuckles’ story in 3&K is an epilogue to Sonic’s 3&K story
You mean it’s never been acknowledged?
@@paulgilbert5278 there’s some people who completely disregard it as being non canon for some reason
@@SocksFCGameArchives Considering people completely miss the obvious at every corner and take the "Stages from Sonic's memory" too literally for Gens, I'm pretty sure people are just dense. This idea is heavily supported by people still quoting the Forces-translation error about Classic Sonic, even after being told that it was a translation error multiple times.
i thought that was pretty obvious by just playing the damn game
@@miwiki6 Well, yeah.
Can't believe how many sonic games there are now🙀 and more sonic games to come 🦔💙
I'm not sure if I would say the music in Sonic R is out of place, I think it fits with the racing quite well, also it rocks, though we can agree on that one.
Ian Flynn said that Origins is a one big retcon for the classic games. There aren't any Game Gear games between Sonic 1 and Sonic 2, because they meet at West Side and zoomed directly into Sonic 2. After that, every Game Gear game is after 3 and Knuckles. They go by release order (except Blast and Tails' Adventure but i'll get into that) and the only confusion here is that Skypatrol and Labyrinth take place at the same time. Now, this is weird, but the game here is Sonic the Fighters. Sonic fights his friends and the Hooligans to get the Chaos Emeralds. He escapes, etc. Key is that Nack is here and stole an emerald. There are 8 emeralds, because a person joined the tournament with a fake. Spinball is canon, but freedom fighters are not canon. There are 16 emeralds because Eggman mass produced fake emeralds. 3D Blast happens, and not much to say here. R happens after it, and there's a protagonist split. Sonic lives SegaSonic and Blast, while Tails goes his own way to live Tails' Adventure. Pocket Adventure isn't canon, and Modern timeline starts here.
Dr egg man and sonic meet before sonic 1 so there must be a game there like maybe segasonic the hedgehog
@@Big_twat23 it was retconned to be after sonic R, and he also said japanese manuals are no longer canon too. only canon thing is origins now.
@@dalivincibey8817 how is it not canon anymore??
@@Big_twat23 classic games follow origins canon now. japanese manuals are gone because we have the animation adaptations of them.
I know that but how is segasonic not canon??
I thought Fighters would occur in the classic timeline and foreshadow the fake chaos emerald used in SA2, but I'll wait til the 2nd part, this is a really cool idea!
The existence of an 8th Chaos Emerald does not make sense unless it could be Sonic Adventure 2's "fake emerald"... Yet putting Fighters after SA2 breaks the heavily implied rule that all "Classic era" games take place before Sonic Adventure, and the "Classic" designs are always younger versions of the characters. What a conundrum...
It has to be canon because bark and bean being in mania would not make sence then
@@Big_twat23 Arguably many things in Mania are more references for the fans than things of plot importance. Chaotix music is used for the Knuckles&Knuckles ending even though Sega said the Heroes Chaotix are reboots that ignore their first appearance.
Unfortunately these kind of things are why there's a bit of continuity snarl.
I see Tails' Adventure to take place near Sky Patrol personally. There's the Sonic/Knux/Fang items and it shows Tails working with significantly more complex machinery than the Tornado.
Finally, someone is doing this. Other videos about this topic feel incomplete, they are missing a lot of spin-off games.
Calm down and stop being so dramatic. “Finally”
@Robert You know Sonic fans, dramatic is their middle name
@@Robert-tl2vg oh shut up already lmao
My fav story must be black knight. Like how they connect it to unleasched with sonic and amys date and the 2 chili dogs he has in the intro. It actually connects to unleasched
This is my headcanon for the whole Robotic Sonic doppelganger situation:
Silver Sonic was Robotnik's first attempt in making a Robot Sonic and is the only one named "Silver Sonic". After Silver Sonic was defeated easily by Sonic, Robotnik assumed it was because his speed was not enough to compete with Sonic's, so he decides to give the next robotic Sonic the speed it needs to keep up with and possibly beat Sonic.
Next up is Metal Sonic. Metal Sonic was made before the events of CD and this robotic Sonic was designed to compete with Sonic's speed. Aside from being given immense speed, he was given the following: The ability to fly, the ability to break through metal spikes, a little bit of Sonic's personality, and...that boost thing he does when you race him. Even though Metal Sonic was faster compared to Silver Sonic, he wasn't fast enough to beat Sonic in a race. Another weakness he had was his durability, and that was one of the factors that led Metal to it's downfall. Next is Mecha Sonic MK 1(this is the Mecha Sonic in Sonic 2 Genesis). Robotnik accepts the fact that Sonic can't be outrun, but he can be beaten in strength (without the Chaos Emeralds or any help) given it wasn't his strong point. So he goes back to Silver Sonic and essentially makes a, somewhat, better version of him. He makes this robotic Sonic bigger, heavier, stronger, more durable, able to shoot his quils, and it can't be bounced back in it's ball form by Sonic. Mecha Sonic was basically a tank, but the problem that Silver Sonic had was increased and added upon too. He was way slower, less versatile, and it kept giving Sonic more openings to attack him. Robotnik went back to the drawing board once again. For Mecha Sonic MK 2, I'd like to think that Robotnik already started designing him after he made Mecha Sonic MK 1 as a contingency plan. After tricking Knuckles, Robotnik gets started on building Mecha Sonic MK 2. For this robo hedgie, Robotnik looks at all the failed robotic Sonics and tries to make a robotic Sonic that has non of their weaknesses. He comes up with a solution to their weaknesses by giving Mecha Sonic MK 2 all of their best feats and then some. He gives Mecha Sonic MK 2 the following feats: Mecha Sonic MK 1's size advantage, strength, and durability; Metal Sonic's color and aggressiveness; Silver Sonic's...eyes (I guess?); made him smarter; and (after figuring out how to harness the power of the Master Emerald) he gives him the ability to absorb the power of the Master Emerald.
Like all of it's other robo Hedgie Brothers, Mecha Sonic MK 2 gets defeated by not only Sonic and Tails, but Knuckles too. After Robotnik loses to Hyper Sonic, he lands in the middle of the ocean with nothing and Mecha Sonic was abandoned. Since he no longer has or even know what happened to Mecha Sonic MK 2, he just assumes Mecha failed to Sonic and starts from scratch again. He was on the right track when making Mecha Sonic MK 2, so he just does the same thing but better. Since he doesn't have Mecha MK 2, he just uses one of his other designs instead. He chooses Metal Sonic since he was the best of what he had and gets to rebuilding him and giving him Mecha Sonic's feats. Despite Metal Sonic failing multiple times against Sonic and his friends since then, Eggman still kept using him and improving him. He tried designing a different Robo Sonic (SA1's mysterious robot Sonic), but scrapped that idea.
This is an interesting change from your usual video, and I’m looking forward to the next one. That being said I have a lot to comment on.
First, three nitpicks. The Sonic 2 Genesis Sonic-bot is not named Silver Sonic in the games, not even in America. He was ‘Mecha Sonic’ in Japan and that’s what they revert to using today. ‘Robo Sonic’ from Lego would’ve also been acceptable.
Second minor nitpick. I’m curious why you used the American boxarts. I don’t know about you but to me the Japanese boxarts are almost always superior, unless it’s a clone of another game like in the case of Sonic 2 for Master System/Game Gear.
Third nitpick, but I think getting hung up on Eggman tricking Knuckles again in Triple Trouble was a non-issue. It’s happened plenty of times in Modern after Sonic 3. I don’t think it’s that farfetched. Eggman is good at tricking the gullible yet heroic Knuckles. Bringing in fangames is neat but sorta icky because it makes me think, why not bring in more fangames you like? Sonic and the Fallen Star, Sonic Robo Blast 1 and 2, Sonic Before and After the Sequel, etc. You didn’t mention the other Master System games getting remakes either, and those are a lot more faithful than the pure fanfic that is Sonic 3D in 2D or Triple Trouble.
Onto the real meat.
I think leaving out games that seemingly have no plot like Waku Waku Sonic Patrol Car or SegaSonic Cosmo Fighter is a mistake because it could've made things really interesting. Just going off of games that have stories is pretty boring in that anyone can do that, but adding those other games would’ve really freshened it up and made it “your take”. The Drift games don’t have serious big stories but they do have forewords from the characters so I think leaving them out was also pretty lame considering they went through the effort to write those. You added Sonic R, which is good, but the story to go off is practically on the same tier. Adding Sonic Drift 2, for example, might end up explaining what Knuckles was doing on South Island for Sonic Blast, and later Sonic the Fighters, which you left out.
AS for the games you left out, I take issue with the fact that you changed or filled stuff in to offer changes and alternatives to some, but just disgard others. I like the fix for the GameGear Sonic 2. That one is just kinda hard to piece together. But if you can fix that with headcanon, why not Spinball? You’ve used Sonic Origins, which is good, but Origins also has the Veg-o-Fortress in it. Some version of Spinball happened (I know we’re ignoring larger statements and whatnot but even Ian Flynn says it’s canon now), so providing a fix or retconning the details that don’t line up (SatAM cast, extra Emeralds) that would’ve been neat. I don’t know why you left out Sonic the Fighters either. I presume it’s due to Espio’s presence and the extra Chaos Emerald, but again if you felt both of these were issues, you could’ve changed them or provided fixes.
And on that note, I’m not sure why you’re tossing out Knuckles Chaotix. I know you said to keep it an open mind about later, as I suspect it’s about Heroes revitalizing the Chaotix and somewhat decanonizing KC, but I don’t think this was necessary. Knuckles Chaotix is being reintegrated into Classic canon today, down to even the Speedia reforming the characterizations to go more with their new counterparts. So this is another instance where I feel, why not just go with these changes? You took a lot of leeway to make changes for the Sonic 2 conundrum, and even brought up Triple Trouble’s remake because of the cool stuff you thought it added, so I don’t at this point see a good reason to leave out KC and the plethora of cool stuff it added too. And I suppose in relation to Mighty I have to ask why you left out SegaSonic at all, but I assume this'll be brought up in the Mania stuff two videos from now.
Lastly. I like the placements for Sonic Chaos, Tails Skypatrol, and Sonic Labyrinth, but you made having 6 Emeralds a sticking point, yet placed Labyrinth, a game with 5 Emeralds on South Island, where you did. Since Labyrinth and Skypatrol ARE canonically simultaneous, I think placing each of them earlier might’ve worked, taking into account what you did with Sonic Chaos.
Not sure if you’ll even read all this, but I await what’s to come and plan to dissect those the same way.
real as fuck #VladSweep
He’s said in his 1-3K video that he likes the USA box arts more. As for why other classic games aren’t here stay tuned because it’ll make more sense later. (He won’t be including the goat Waku Waku Sonic Patrol car.)
With S1SMS, we can say that it can take place after the Genesis version since the Emeralds are this time scattered through the island like what happened in the end of the Genesis version. Sky Base exists after Scrap Brain, this can imply that Robotnik could’ve been moving to another location and was just trying to get his Scrap Brain stuff with him and occasionally try to stop Sonic
So encore mode basically
One time my dad sold all my game consoles (Xbox 360, 3DS) and all I was left with was Sonic Blast as entertainment and it was constant suffering
>I had the plug in play
With the whole Nack/Fang thing, I like to see it as Nack the Weasel is his real name and Fang the Sniper is something he came up with that sounds more menacing
24:21: "Sonic, Tails and Knuckles set out to stop this. By that I mean, Sonic does all the real work and the other two stand around..."
Pretty much sums the dissatisfactory nature of the 2010s game plots.
Your channel has grown so much lately, keep all the amazing Playstation and Sonic content coming
The IDW comics follow the game’s canon, which were started post Sonic Forces
As always, great video! Most fans, including the modern writers themselves forget how much the Sonic 2 8bit and Knuckles campaign in 3&K contribute to later events. Especially how Silver Sonic in Sonic 2 8bit act as a prototype for Mecha Sonic, but how that boss acts as a blue print for all of eggman's attempts at creating a cybernetic clone of sonic alla Neo Metal Sonic in heroes. One way that the video really made me appreciate the lore is despite the lack of story, it really stayed consistent with its continuity unlike most 3rd and 4th gen platformers
Say for example how in the JP manual for Sonic 1, it states that "Chaos Emeralds are a super substance, giving energy to all living things." So for little instances like how Mecha Sonic harnessing the master emeralds power really shows how the Sega Technical Institute and Sega of Japan really gave the world building and lore a lot of thought. As always, keep up the great work J!
20:11 I think the Game Gear games have their own timeline that is different than Genesis games timeline (think of it like the OG Dragon Ball movies if you watched), so it's make sense that Knuckles tricked by Eggman for first time in Game Gear title.
One thing that I was really curious about was the sonic CD-esque cutscene where Amy Rose is using what appeared to be Tarot cards. Like, I played Sonic CD a lot as a kid but I've never seen that scene, and it's never really been mentioned in other Sonic games. So it just has me wondering more about her character.
That's from the new Sonic Origins compilation and uses a plot element from the Japanese game manual where it stated that Amy decided to follow Sonic to Little Planet after her cards told her that she was due a fateful meeting with him.
This is a pretty damn good video J. I definitely like your reasoning for these games' placements and the reasoning for excluding some of the games makes complete sense. Only games missing from this era seems to be SEGASonic the Hedgehog and Sonic the Fighters but I figure you'll either address that in one of the later videos or understandably couldn't figure out a place on the timeline for them, which makes sense considering those two arcade games are kinda hard to place. Overall though can't wait to see the next video, especially considering what Sonic Frontiers did for the Lore of Sonic in regards to these games.
What did Frontiers do for the lore of this set of games? I must have missed something during my 2 playthroughs…
@@Robert-tl2vg I mean the series in general thanks to the additions to the lore in Frontiers.
Before anyone gets angry…
Sonic CD comes after the Death Egg Saga in Sonic 3, it’s a solo adventure before everyone comes back together for Adventure/Mania.
I say this because Tails appears in the D.A. Garden flying the Tornado, meaning he had to have gotten it from Sonic before the events of the game.
Not to mention Amy, who would make more sense to see in Adventure directly after CD, especially with the flashbacks and references to that adventure, as if it had just happened.
Sonic Origins confirms that CD takes place between 1 and 2.
Huh? No, those references are done in the style of something she misses because it's been a longer while.
Despite Sonic The Hedgehog being the first Sonic game, it’s actually not the first time Sonic and Eggman have crossed paths. Not sure if there is a game that shows if Sonic and Eggman has crossed paths before though. Actually, Eggman’s animals in robots idea is an idea he had first during Sonic 1 so if we can find a game that has no animals in robots and makes sense to come before Sonic 1 then we could find the first game in the timeline.
The only game that has no badniks is sega sonic the hedgehog so sega sonic the hedgehog has to be before sonic 1
@@whiterabbit3050 It has Badniks but animals don’t pop out once defeated. The only thing I wonder is, would Robotnik really capture and torture teenagers? However this is Robotnik we’re talking about. This also makes Sonic finding Mighty and Ray in Sonic Mania Plus’ encore mode even more special considering they haven’t seen each other in ages.
If I may contest something: I think the idea of Tails Adventures taking place before Sonic 1 has a big hole in it when you consider Tails' Sonic 2 backstory. Am I really expected to believe Tails' would be a social pariah on an island he saved from destruction over a perceived physical defect? Tails having ANY solo adventure before Sonic Adventure 1 establishes his intended character development arc presents problems with Tails Adventures and Skypatrol in the timeline, as well. Why would Tails' feel insecure about being in Sonic's shadow after quests like that?
Edit: also, while I perfectly understand if you feel it does not fit the timeline (8th Chaos Emerald and all...), are you going to mention Sonic the Fighters? You don't have SegaSomic the Hedgehog on this timeline either, which may present problems when you get to Sonic Mania.
100% agreed, both tails games would have to take place after sonic 3 onward
Plus Tails can fly in Tails’ Adventure which the story of Sonic 2 suggests he learned how to by trying to keep up with Sonic, though I think this maybe goes without being said lol
Tails Adventure takes place on Cocoa Island. He's not bullied there.
Welp Tails said it himself....he's "wildly inconsistent"
Tails Adventure doesn’t take place on West Side Island. It takes place on Cocoa Island. Canonically, Tails lives on West Side Island and that’s the only place he’s been stated to be bullied in.
CD comes before 2...just pointing that out.
Yes
Triple Trouble 16-bit treated as part of headcanon is the best canon one can hope for
As a HUGE Sonic fan..this is genuinely the best Sonic YT video I’ve ever watched 🥹🥲🫡
“Everything is Canon” they say.
In our minds that is.
The same can be said about Mario, Dragon Ball, Zelda, even Mega Man. Even if some non canon material and elements for time skips could come to head-canons.
For example my buddy has GT to be his head canon, in spite of Toriyama saying that it’s not canon to his story and sometimes reckoning a few points in his franchise.
The Dragon Balls allow you to summon the eternal dragon to make a wish, they don't give you a super form unless that's what you wish for.
Hi J's Reviews I love this and I hope you have a good day and you are awesome
This guy J's Reviews just keeps making videos that bring up the exact topics my weird ass frequently thinks about.
I'm tired of feeling like the only person that's heard of(and absolutely loved) Sonic chronicles the dark brotherhood.
Nice video! Sonic CD is definitely a direct sequel to Sonic The Hedgehog. I mean Sonic 1 and CDs Sonic sprite look the same! And CD feels more like sequel to Sonic 1.
Yuji naka watching from prison as we speak
This comment is even more hilarious with no context.
Imagine someone finding this out through a UA-cam comment.
I guess Yukon couldn’t escape from the city
Surprised you haven't mentioned Sonic the Fighters, since while its canonicity is debatable due to its wacky plot and the existence of an eighth Chaos Emerald, still does have a story kind of like Sonic R.
It must be canon though because bark and bean were in sonic mania
6:06 thanks for this, actually. I played all of this stuff back in the day. I started with STH 2, but begged my grandparents for the first game afterwards. I was always really confused about "Eggman", but in my defense I wasn't reading any manuals lol. I was like 4.
Believe it or not, Sonic 3 was the first game release I was ever hyped for. Well, that and maybe Jurassic Park Rampage Edition, but I never played that back then. I just drooled over it in the store and never convinced anyone to buy it. I may have been hyped for Super Mario World too, because Yoshi. I love dinos, always have.
Ey bro just wanna say I like your content. Well edited, pleasent voice, no disgusting ads (hello manscape), does a good job staying on topic without weird tangents.
Unlike this comment section
@@Robert-tl2vg Hell is your problem?
Another banger vid by j lets go!
I will now call this era the “spindash era”
Comic Drake also did a Sonic timeline that addresses the crazy time travel shenanigans. I've always been fond of that one
In the Sonic 3 manual, it says Sonic and Tails landed on an unnamed island and laid low for a while and the plot kicks off with Tails building the jewel radar and Sonic finding a ring that told more of the history of the chaos emeralds written on it.
Which manual is that? Because that sure isn't in the US manual.
@@mjc0961 Bro, you just answered your own question.
@@mjc0961 Do you still think Tails canonically said "All's well that ends well"?
@@lpfan4491 technically no
The comment about the McDonald's promotion and Sega's priorities is pretty uncharitable. Splitting the game up gave the devs the breathing room they needed to deliver on time without cutting back on the scope of the combined game or going into even more crunch time. They went as far as to add bonus content for Sonic 2, which required modifying Sonic 2's code and shipping the patch on an extra chip in S&K!
You forgot to mention the other reason sonic 3 was split into two games: Technical limitations. The genesis cart did not have enough room to hold the whole game.
8:36 Metal Sonic exists also perhaps Mecha Sonic MK0 (he was called Mecha Sonic in the JPN version) could have been built earlier and Robotnik just got around to using him finally
J, questions. Heard of Sonic Christmas blast? You'll see Sonic Prime? Gonna discuss Sonic casting ideas? Other Sonic media will be talked in diffrent video? Cover stuff besides the games?
Spoiler warning for Sonic Frontiers.
The problem with some of this is that now we have some side series as canon thanks to Frontiers. Like Sticks being mentioned in the ending and the eggman memos directly referencing the kingdom from sonic racing. But like you mentioned its your headcannon. And i personally also agree that these should remain seperate
Boom is not canon, but there could still be a Sticks the same way Boom has a Sonic and such
And I Also Believe That 8-bit Sonic 2 & Sonic Chaos Set Right Before The 7th Emerald Is Discovered In 16-Bit Sonic 2
I remember the introduction of Knuckles at the beginning of Sonic 3 was so awesome to me as a kid.
For me personally, the classic era does not only include the 90s. The classic era goes from Sonic 1 all the way up to the end of Sonic Adventure 2. That whole span of 10 years is the classic era IMO. If Sonic 3 went 3D like it was initially conceived to, the classic era would end by Sonic 2
Sonic Heroes is where the modern era begins for me personally. It just changes so many things:
-Big's design has legs and not just feet
-Super Sonic has new quills and no longer references the HPZ mural
-The Chaotix are reintroduced as completely new characters
-Shadow's whole character starts over
and more
It just wouldn't be fair to lump the adventure games into the modern era when heroes either throws it out or changes it. Now, if heroes included characters like Mighty, Fang, etc like also initally planned, it would fit as one cohesive timeline. But as far as im concerned, the modern Chaotix mark the official modern era of Sonic
Sonic Adventure 2 is also the last game to feature Sonic’s original personality.
Gonna be interesting watching this series after all the lore in Frontiers, especially once you get to Sonic Adventure. Even just seeing the Sonic 3 footage here finally knowing the Ancients built the Sky Sanctuary is very strange feeling
But that retrospective background information doesn’t change the timeline.
What if Angel Island is actually a space ship?
@@alexgomez6723 I doubt it, most of the original escape ships were likely used in the construction at Starfall, and Sonic Adventure shows that the Angel Island area was part of a larger landmass before the Perfect Chaos incident and the area having to be made to levitate harnessing the power of the Master Emerald, in order to keep it away from those who'd try to shatter it or use it for the wrong reasons like the echidnas did.
The only things the Ancients built regarding the Angel Island area is the Emerald shrine and Sky Sanctuary, it's a dark implication but it would make sense for them to not build up a ton of stuff when they don't know whether or not The End will STAY sealed away.
The Japanese manual of sonic the hedgehog treats Robotnik as a long time menace
This was fun, great video good sir.🕹☘️
I'm watching this while eating McDonalds... How wild is that!
I also fondly remember the early 2000s Sonic Happy Meal toys.
0:40 "running for over 30 years" is the most fitting thing to possibly say about this series lmao.
I was just thinking about needing to watch a Sonic timeline video, so this comes at the perfect time
Gotta love Sonic
Oh boy a 30 minute video detailing Sonic lore? ☕️
timeline videos would be fun to see. maybe you can do one for the DCAU or the 2003 TMNT series
There’s a great one for the 2003 TMNT series already. But yeah J should try it out
12:30 My headcanon on Sonic 2 is that Sonic got all seven Emeralds, but couldn't go Super at the end because there weren't any rings on the Death Egg, meaning he couldn't collect 50 of them. Tails had to save Sonic because of that. Yes, technically, no such ending exists, but I don't care.
Gonna put these into a numbered list to make it easier to see and (if you choose to) respond to each point.
1. I would definitely use only the Japanese sources pre-Sonic Adventure 1, as back in that era Sonic very explicitly had different continuities depending on the region. Japan, the US, and the UK all had their own defined Sonic canon.
2. There's no reason that the Game Gear/Master System version of Sonic 1 can't exist as part of the Genesis/Mega Drive version of Sonic 1, especially when Colours DS very explicitly sets the precedent that the "lesser version" contains canonical details (Burst, Void, Mother Wisp)
3. Sonic 1's manual VERY EXPLICITLY establishes that Sonic and Dr. Eggman did not meet in that game. They already knew each other and were already fighting. If you take Forces's claims seriously (I don't), they've even been fighting for "decades".
4. There's many games that take place on South Island, and Sonic Origins already establishes that Sonic went through the Little Planet adventure prior to his adventure in Sonic 2 (where he meets Tails). In addition, Sonic 2's manual ALSO makes it explicitly clear that Dr. Eggman followed Sonic to Westside Island in hopes of getting the Chaos Emeralds. Last but not least, using the Sonic robots as an indication of Eggman's tech getting better doesn't make sense when we already know for a fact that Metal Sonic comes before both Mecha Sonics, and explicitly gets revived (not rebuilt or replaced, revived) in Sonic 4. You can just place Game Gear/Master System Sonic 2 after Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and add another South Island adventure after that point too.
Sonic Origins also shows that the Chaos Emeralds travelled directly from South Island to Westside Island, meaning that no Chaos Emerald adventures can take place between the two games.
5. Sonic Triple Trouble (which has to take place after Sonic 3 & Knuckles for, well, obvious reasons) also features 6 Chaos Emeralds, it's not unreasonable to guess that hey, maybe not all 6 appeared in the adventure. Especially since, thanks to Origins, Sonic knew there was a 7th Chaos Emerald as early as Sonic 1.
6. Tricky thing about any non-CD classic era game featuring Metal Sonic is... Sonic 4. Metal Sonic gets abandoned in Sonic CD until Sonic 4 rolls around, by which point Sonic is already in his modern design (a detail whose canonicity is supported by Sonic Generations characters pointing out differences in c. Sonic's appearance when he saves them, and Sonic Forces Tails being able to recognise c. Sonic as distinct after just a second's worth of looking at him. This impacts Triple Trouble, Knuckles Chaotix, Sonic Drift 2 and Sonic R. I would include Sonic the Fighters, but 8 Chaos Emeralds lmao.
7. You toss out Knuckles Chaotix because of the interview during Sonic Heroes, right? Well Sonic Mania includes very explicit references to Knuckles Chaotix, so I think it's actually tossed back INTO the main canonicity because of that. We can just treat the new characterisation of the crew as a retcon.
8. Sonic Drift and Sonic Drift 2 actually DO have a story. The story is in the manual and extremely minimal, but long story short is there's a racing tournament and the Chaos Emeralds are the prize. Sonic and friends (and Dr. Eggman) all enter for their own reasons in order to win. It's an incredibly basic story, but it's still a story all the same.
9. Sonic Labyrinth's manual actually also mentions that Tails left a letter saying he's off on his own adventure, exactly what he's doing in Tails' Skypatrol, so that connection is actually intended, which is neat.
10. Sonic 3D Blast and Sonic Blast actually aren't a tie-in to each other, something which is clear if you look at their Japanese names (Sonic 3D Blast is just called Sonic 3D: Flickies' Island). The Western version just tried to retroactively make them a tie-in.
I'd say your timeline is decent overall, definitely better than a majority of timelines. And while I'm at it, I might as well share the timeline that I worked most of a year on, so that you can see where my own thoughts land on it if you wish.
www.tumblr.com/numbugwritingblog/700266480030400512/sonic-the-hedgehog-timeline?source=share
2:22 - so you got sonic games, sonic cartoons... and still no sonic death metal album. Sonic for Hire - Always telling us what we're missing.
It seems to me that the 8-bit/handheld games are meant to be a different continuity. Hence the confusion about when Sonic met Tails, and Knuckles apparently being fooled into thinking Sonic is a villain twice.
Triple Trouble 16-bit and 3D in 2D are _perfectly reasonable_ to include in a timeline because they're just fan retellings of official games. I love Fallen Star and BtS/AtS too, but I fully support J's decision to not include them.
4 Horsemen of Sonic Canon: Classic Era at some points, Shadow the Hedgehog game, Sonic Forces, are IDW Comics canon? Tangle was mentioned in Frontiers (one of few spoilers I know) and Sticks from Boom series...
Gotta be real here, Origins didn't really laid to rest on where the canonical placement of CD is located on the timeline, especially when it disregarded developer statements made about CD's development just to make it canon before 2.
Fun fact: Fang was originally meant to be named “Nack” But they changed it to Fang because the Way you prenounce “Nack” is very simelar to Knuckles. In english we dont have that problem so we called him his original name. But nowadays his name is What he is known as in Japan “Fang the sniper” But i do like the idea that “Nack” is a name that he goes by but it not his real name, i mean he is an criminal after all maybe he goes by many fake names, one of Them could be Nack.
Nackles.
pretty good timeline, i will admit it's missing sonic the fighters as that also had a plot too
Yeah
15:58 glad to know that Jeb is playing Super Smash Bros Ultimate
The editing here is goated
the timeline actually goes like this
sonic fast food chain -> sa2 -> sa1 -> doom eternal
The Sonic timeline is actually split into 3 parts: before, during and after Sonic Adventure.
Tiny correction: Tails Skypatrol's first release in the US was actually in Sonic Adventure DX.
Encyclo-speed-ia stated S3&K takes place few days after S2, probably no big difference, but that could technically explain why Sonic goes super after ringless fight with death egg robot.
Sonic giving Eggman his name, CD coming between 1 and 2 and other things are popular fanon that became canon because SEGA didn’t feel the need to figure it out themselves. I wouldn’t put it past them to eventually just say “yeah that’s a good idea. So basically the Knuckles in Triple Trouble IS there because of that instead of just hosting tricked again.”
Sonic 3D Blast on the Genesis was my very first played Sonic game.
J is gonna have FUN figuring out where the Advance games fit in
Frontiers makes atleast two characters that have not been seen in the main sonic games Canon and that's crazy
If you can headcanon Sonic Triple Trouble 16-bit, then I suggest adding Sonic Before the Sequel, Sonic After the Sequel and Sonic Chrono Adventure too. They match the quality of classic games and the story of Before the Sequel and Sonic After the Sequel fit, well, before and after the sequel. And the story from After the Sequel is continued in Chrono Adventure.
The "× the Sequel" games are not on the same level as Triple Trouble 16 bit, and don't do a lot of interesting stuff in the overall timeline.
@@fawkesthefox912 I think TT16B has better level design and story, but they are worth playing anyway. On tier list I would put them in the same tier of "must play" fan games.
Honestly, I'd disqualify Triple Trouble 16-bit simply for relying on a gameplay-glitch from Sonic 3 standalone that was patched in S3&Knuckles.
@@lpfan4491 What glitch?
@@Gnidel Sonic getting slammed into the ground cancelling the super form.
I just finished Sonic Origins and thought about the canonical timeline. I guess we had the same thought process. Thanks J.
Huh? What does this comment even mean?
You thought about the timeline and then assume you have the same thought processes of who?
@@Robert-tl2vg Not you, so don’t worry your pea brain to death about it.
Tail's Skypatrol was not included on Sonic Mega Collection Plus, it was included on Sonic Gems Collection and I believe it was included on SADX GC
Fun fact--the PC version of Sonic CD's manual doesn't have that problem at all. It's word-for-word that synopsis, but with Amy instead of Sally, the way it should be. I oughta know--it's the first version I ever owned. 😜
This video is just a resume for sega's sonic lore manager
I love the effort you put into these Sonic videos, keep up the amazing work!
This is how I see the classic timeline segasonic, 1, cd, gamegear 2, 2, 3&k, knuckles choatix, (maybe 3d blast) mania, and now superstars
18:35 Important note, this marks the first ever occurance of DLC. Put Sonic 2 on Sonic and Knuckles, you can play as Knuckles in Sonic 2!
“By the fans for the fans”
-Sonic maina 2017
Who else thought at first that this video was made by the leaderboard ? You know, the 107 facts and timeline guy with robot icon
Got to say I was not expecting you to do something Sonic related again.
8:09 we have games like Sonic Labrynth where Robotnik tries to convert South Island into Robotnik land and Sonic Chaos where South Island starts sinking when Robotnik gets his hands on the Chaos Emeralds
Also if Ian said Sonic 1 SMS is a separate event perhaps it was referring to that
I Think Triple trouble Remake Would Be Canon To The Neo Classic Sonic Timeline
You trickster, thought you were done. Great stuff.
This has been my head cannon for years and I’m sticking with it sonic 1 cd 2 3&k 3d blast 4 episodes1-2 adventures1-2 advance1-2 heroes advance 3 rush rush adventure 06 secret rings black knight unleashed colors generations lost world forces and as of this date frontiers