Major themes that the Prince of Persia Sands of Time trilogy taught me: Sand of Time: You can fix your mistakes. Warrior Within: You can change your fate. Two Thrones: You can live with the consequences of your actions.
Nice little summary. For all the issues I have with Two Thrones, the takeaway of forgiving yourself, moving on and becoming a better man do resonate nicely.
How do you like the opening narration by Kaileena? "We all make mistakes. Some are small and some are large. But his mistake born of innocence fuelled by pride was the most greatest and terrible of them all" That line is one of the best lines in the series for me
The best line for me would be the prince's speech when he is at his lowest: "You were right. I have been like a child. Naive and arrogant. Always rushing to undo my mistakes. Never facing the consequences of my actions... No more. I accept what I have done, and all that it applies."
It’s iconic to me, when I was a kid I used to keep replaying the game up until the giant fight. I really liked the game up until that part. One day I’ll finish it but I haven’t played POP3 in over 14 years.
It's mostly the writing and the interactions between Farah and the Prince that are disappointing compared to SoT, but it's a good game and a better end to the story than most franchises get.
The whole story is very symbolic Its charts the story of a boy born into power becoming a man, after going through many hardships and tones of mistakes Not only does he come to terms with his darkside, but he integrates it into his personality, he excepts that he isn't perfect and that as long as he is aware of it he can choose the path towards the highest good Its a proper hero's journey
Part of what makes this a great conclusion to the trilogy is how this game is a repeat of many events from the first game, just differently. This really adds to how the Prince mostly just failed to fix things in his attempts to reverse his mistakes.
Been loving this nostalgia trip from this series. The sands of time trilogy were my favourite games from back when I was about 12 to 15. I still remember Warrior Within being the first game I bought for my PS2. I think you captured it so well in saying that many points in this game just missed the mark. Sands of Time and Warrior Within both had so much style and character that I can remember playing them vividly while Two Thrones, while it manages to be a fitting ending to the series and synthesize the wildly different tones of the previous games was ultimately forgettable (I will pay that the returned voice actor for the prince had some fantastic delivery and watching and I could hear his delivery in my head ahead of the soundclips in this review). For me I think my favourite in the series was Warrior Within. The tone, the setting of two time periods on the island of time, the nu-metal, and the upgraded combat were things that I fell in love with when I was younger. But the whole series will hold a special place. I may give them another play through after watching your series.
Thanks mate! POP:TT definitely had potential to surpass Warrior Within, and I'd love to see what a modern take on the series could do with the more talented writers that Ubisoft seems to employ today. It definitely a fun series to return to every half decade or so :)
@@Zikemach definitely! I think that how obvious the potential was only made it ring a bit more hollow in the end. I did love that Ubisoft were willing to try something a bit different with each game in the trilogy though (later games in the series may be a different story). I would love to see what could be done with the POP title this decade. I'd like to see the time controlling powers again because they're so fun and we don't see them that often, but otherwise I want to see what new stories a team of creative's could come up with for a Persian Prince.
i have absolutely the same experiences towards the triology! PoP WW was and will be my favourite, i played it more than 28 times( yes i counted every and each form the age 12). Two thrones just needed one more year so they can work on it! it was rushed and redesigned! i wonder what The Kindred Blandes would have been like! it would continue the darker tone of the first one and seemed a lot more interesting in general! Truly around stealth more gory ! Great potential lost because they changed game director mid-development.
@@Zikemach just 1 correction POP is set in Medieval Persia (at least the Sands of time one) as its said to take place in the 9th century AD during the rise of Islam likely the Saffarids ( as they fit the timeline and have a boarder to the Indian subcontinent) as the Abbasids were Arabs not Persian. The film is the most Anacronistic being set in the time of the Persian Empires of the Iron age yet is Islamic in archetecture and Culture (Alamut was not a thing until the Middle ages)
@@Zikemach Assassin's Creed was also suppose to be a POP Game that reboots the timeline to the 12th Century (as the Assassin order is primarily based in Persia) during the Crusades and is a Prequel to the series. This again reboots the Bloodline of the Prince from Saffarid to Khwarezmian who are the Perisan-Turkic rulers of Persia that the Mongols later destroyed.
@@Zikemach I played the 2008 version first and hence have a huge soft spot for it. I can see how it might have offended people who were attached to the old characters. I think one really has to approach it as a completely new character, but at the same time I can see how one can't just say "I wish they had just named it something else, so people who could just approach it on its own terms", because in the end the concept of platforming, middle eastern style, love story, sort of immature main character is just too similar. I do think it got unfairly maligned for things that were in the end imo quite ahead of their time. I remember people BLASTING it for the fact that you couldn't get a game over, but I think making the restarts something that is part of the story was actually quite graceful. Now the combat was trash and a complete waste of time, but I liked the platforming and I also really liked how they left it up to you how much of the backstory you wanted to hear/how much you wanted to talk to your companion during gameplay. Another interesting thing about it is the ending and how that was further explored in a DLC that I think came out on only one platform? And might be impossible to get at this point?
@@notmynamedammit It's also worth remembering that Sands of Time was itself the fourth Prince of Persia game, so there was precedent within the series for completely rebooting the plot even before the 2008 game. But, yeah, the ending of the plot was kinda unsatisfying, and the DLC (that came out on both major consoles but not PC) reportedly ends with its own cliffhanger/sequel bait. There's some interesting world-building, and the free-flowing parkour sections were generally good gameplay, but, yeah, the game clearly had no idea how to end its story (which may be part of the explanation for there being no sequel)
Amazing analysis and thank you for reminding everyone this masterpiece exists. The Prince's arc was just as compelling as Guts from Berserk or Geralt from the witcher or Kratos from God of war.
Nikil Bellad thanks for watching! Definitely, over three games the arc we get rivals what you might find in a novel or longform manga. Similar to God of War, it’d be an absolute treat if Ubisoft to returned to this after almost two decades, giving us an older, different but fundamentally the same Prince
Honestly, I favor all three games (Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Warrior Within, and The Two Thrones) and I have fond memories of playing them. Got to admit, though, your videos are educational, makes me feel like how I could make good stories. Thanks for the work you made.
I find your long-form thoughtful reviews absolutely excellent. I have come to prefer this type of content, as I find it cathartic; like somehow it helps me to digest and contemplate the entire experience, further cement its subtleties in my mind, and grapple with its metaphors. I personally watched your SoT video after replaying the game for perhaps the 7th time in 12 years. After I saw you continued through the PoP series with your videos, I was inspired to begin my marathon of the entire trilogy, replaying the SoT and TT, while finishing WW for the first time (as I had never played it when I was young like I was with SoT, and never finished WW it when I tried it some years ago,) And then taking a break to watch your video and sleep on the experience. What a wild ride and I can't believe what a great experience it was. I find your input thoughtful, your attention to detail methodical, and your dissection of story fantastic. I eagerly await more videos like this from you, which you generously and so laboriously see fit to provide, and continue volunteering to create.
Thanks!! That sounds like a very fulfilling gaming / story consumption experience. Glad I was able to play a part and that you got to enjoy the series yet another time :)
I feel The Two Thrones is an unlucky game. It feels rushed because it started off as a completely different game, called Prince of Persia: Kindered Blades. It was supposed to be a direct sequel to Warrior Within, much like The Two Thrones, except it kept the dark tone and violence from its predecessor. The game would have been much less linear, you could switch between the Prince and the (very different looking) Dark Prince at your own will and you had multiple endings. The villain would have been some unknown doppelganger willing to steal the Prince's identity (possibly a nod to the plot of The Shadow and The Flame). Also, apparently we would have delved deeper into the relationship between the Prince and Kaileena, and she eventually commited suicide to somehow help the Prince. You can find a few early gameplay footage and more info online. At the end of the day, I'm really glad we got The Two Thrones instead. While it is inferior to the previous games in many ways, it offers the best plot and the best ending the trilogy has to offer imho. Farah really gets the best out of the Prince and the Dark Prince is just hilarious. Watching the Prince suffer (and backtrack) some more in Kindered Blades would have been a real bummer to me. I just wish the devs started with the concept for The Two Thrones right from the beginning, that way much of the problems you highlighted in your analysis would've gotten ironed out. It could have been the best game of the trilogy, possibly even surpassing Sands of Time, but oh well.
You know one thing whatever kindred blades showed is the same thing that happens in game except for the suicide part,still she dies at the hands of Vizier sacrificing herself to help the prince with power of sands so that he can defeat the army and set things right. Sadly this is not well narrated in the game
Thank you for making these detailed satisfying studies. The Prince of Persia series is one of the greats in gaming and few give the attention to understand precisely what made it so strong. Hope you continue making more videos and thank you again for the nostalgia and the depth of your review.
I didn't know this game needed to be defended. Its really good as the others. One of the most underrated trilogy of games ever. I hope we get a reboot/remake, this is way cooler than just another crappy Assassin's Creed game
@@FraserSouris the first trilogy and upto AC 4 was good, then it just turned into Ubisoft milking the franchise and churning out more and more triple A titles
@@echelon1014 except these later games Ubisoft released are better than the original Trilogy + 4. You finally have actually good and deep combat with distinct playstyles with weapons, abilities and bows instead of boring OP instakill counters dominating everything. You finally have fluid stealth movement with many abilities to play with and you can actually crouch. You finally have decent player progression and specialization that makes player choices in how they proceed feel distinct rather than vestigial. If these older games released for the first time now, they would be quite disliked for how primitive and underwhelming they are.
Dude i've been binging your Prince of Persia reviews and it made me fall in love with the series again. It also gave me more context about this series's themes. Really thankful that you made these videos! Thank you. Btw at 31:24 in the psp version you go through the teleporter and discover some ancient stuff about the lore.
@@Zikemach its quite interesting but also weird cause they say that the magical fountains in the sands of time was a creation of kaileena and that she always helped the prince or something(?)
The Prince in this game was my childhood hero and he played a part in who I grew up to be and the values I would develop more than my pathetic parents. I'll never forget the Prince saying qoute " I think a true warrior fights for something other than himself "
The thing is that most of the promotion material was about kindred blade which was the actual 3rd game with a very different plot and story and this is why many people were upset about the two thrones
Honestly for me, the story of Two Thrones was one of its best things but there's one major problem i have with it: KAILEENA WAS DONE SO DIRTY IN IT. I understand what they were going for and what her death meant for the Prince's development but come on, she shoudn't have died so easily. I mean, she was the Empress of Time, the very vessel of the sands of time, someone who could SUMMON TORNADOES AND SLOW DOWN TIME, CREATE SAND CREATURES ON TOP OF BEING A MASTER SWORDSMAN ON THE SAME LEVEL ON THE PRINCE. SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN KILLED OFF SO EASILY. AT THE VERY LEAST THEY COULD HAVE HAD HER TAKING DOWN DOZENS IF NOT HUNDREDS OF SOLDIERS TO SHOW HOW POWERFUL SHE WAS!
Yup. They retconned out all of her powers, replaced with Padme levels of "she lost the will to live". I don't like this part because it doesn't really move past warrior within, it tries to walk it back. Prince isn't *mature* past his WW angry, angsty phase, he's back to being a kid, tempted by his dark ego to be the mean kid again, but turning out as the good kid starry eyed idealist, as if WW never happened. Both staying an angsty angry teenager and returning to an idealist youngster persona are wrong. It's been seven years + however long Warrior Within took. I needed him to be an adult in this one, arguing against the dark prince from a position of WISDOM, not kiddy idealism
@@mikoajpytlik5225 my god, you have no idea how happy i am to finally meet someone who thinks it the same way i do! And guess why the Prince went back to his SOT self instead of developing more from his WW self? Because Sands of Time Fanboys bitched on Warrior Within's darker tone and thus, Ubisoft downgraded the game and ruined the characters and story.
Man you deserve a hell lot of more subscribers and recognition . Such well crafted reviews you have there. Keep it going and I hope one day you will reach more people to see your creations because they are amazing.
As someone said about the Prince of Persia (trilogy) games For every step forward, there is also a step back. I really appreciate the trilogy, and they share the spot of my favorite games of all time, and if they somehow managed to take the best parts of all the games it would definitely make for a "perfect" game
As you pointed out, The Two Thrones took the sand wraith´s life-drain gameplay mechanic from Warrior Within and turned it into the intriguingly thematic dark prince sections. I also love how this game is linear and cinematic in terms of pacing, as a breather of sorts, as opposed to the "confined" open world of WW (my fav. game of the trilogy btw), which was a lot of fun still but it made the 2nd entry drag a little near the end. The only issue I have with TT is the couple of game breaking glitches. And the fact that there's a long way from the save file to the Twins boss fight. Thanks for doing this review. Cheers from Iran.
@@Zikemach Exactly! TT does a great job of incorporating gameplay elements into the story (much like SoT). Now that I've played Dark Souls 1,2,3, I feel as if I've already played the "souls" series before in Warrior Within; in that, WW somehow felt encumbered to tell its story coherently. The souls series similarly and yet strangely, actively tries to avoid any form of overt storytelling, going to such extremes as to hide main plot elements in item descriptions...something which I find quite pretentious and counter-productive, as much as I love the 1st Dark Souls.
just got done watching ur analysis on the trilogy, such a joyride, totally get ur statement on being burned out from playing PoP games , rest well sweet prince
ahaha thanks friend, really is nice to hear some people went through the trilogy. Working on new games / videos for awhile, but I'm sure I'll return eventually!
SO every game critique video on YT I found was all for the new games (obviously).. I didn't expect to find one for POP, a favourtie game of mine and not just cause of nostalgia. But Ididn't expect to be so engrossed in them and you pointing out where improvements could have been made has got me wondering more.. Your videos are well made and I'm glad i came across them. Cheers!!!
great series of videos homie. I watched them all in one day. Very good commentary and I even learned some things, like Why Farah steals the dagger and the sword in the first game, rewinding the dahaka translates his speech, Kaileena being an abusive woman, the things that should impact the prince, I didn't bat an eye when the parallel timeline prince died. Thnx for this awesome triology review. Respect +
Great video, really enjoyed it. I'm one of the few people who rates The Two Thrones as my favorite game in the trilogy and actually one of my Top 5 games of all time. It has the best gameplay by far and while I agree with a lot of what you say about the story, I loved the characters, especially the Prince / Dark Prince banter. I'm looking forward to The Sands of Time remake and hoping that there's a chance Ubisoft go on to re-do the whole trilogy - it would be a great chance to re-dub the Prince in Warrior Within with Yuri and also Farah in The Two Thrones in order to give some proper continuity.
I followed the developement of 2005. I hated the end result: the story and the game itself felt short, too bright light blendings, and many bugs. It was as huge buggy mess as WW was. It clearly felt unfinished. After hindsight, TT with its team had the most unfortunate developement cycle. The devs had to change the design after the E3 presentation - less WW elements and copying more the original SoT narrative, imo an executive decision- , lost ressources due to the sudden shift to the new Assassin Creed Project, and the deadline was within a year after WW is finished. My take is also they hyped too much with the clean E3 demo, a phenomenon which we are familiar with todays Cyberpunk. All in all, TT stays an example how bad management decisions can ruin a big potential game. Despite that the team did an incredible job to finish and deliver a (somewhat lukewarm) product and keep a good script. My respect goes to the old dev team!
Loved the stealth in this game, i just wish the QTEs gave you more time to react (mainly on bosses). I’d like to see a form of this mechanic implemented into the Sands Of Time remake
Surprisingly, regarding the bugs, i generally had a very clean run of the trilogy. But i do remember the spring thing, and also one dark prince segment where the enemies didnt spawn and i fumbled around confused as to what did i do wrong and then died. Oh well. Also the Steam version didnt have either glowing tattoos (bad) or eye searing visier (good). At least i really dont remember being him that bright You calling the statue puzzle very simple make me feel so stupid, i was stuck for an hour xD
KOT EBANA ROT ahaha no offence intended! Simple more in the grand scale, and how uninspired the scene felt compared to, say, the Grand Library in SOT!!
For me Two Thrones is my favorite of the trilogy simply because the gameplay is the best in the series, the boss fights are amazing (in my opinion), I really like the story and getting all the collectibles (like the cutscenes, the "bloopers" and concept art) was an absolute joy for me!
This one is my favorite in the franchise. I don't care what anyone says. I love all of the new mechanics and playing as the dark prince are my favorite parts of the game. Also the relationship plotline feels the most realized in this one.
The ending is just *chef's kiss. The prince becomes King and Farah is on his side. There is nothing else to say its over they are together well earned but only we saw all that happend in the first game not because he earned her trust and respect in this game alone. Still a very satisfying end 10/10 for me. I love this game played it a ton its a very long game sands of time is short VERY short i finish it in 3h47min. That story is the best of all but this end is perfect.
POP has a weird setting TBH, its less a particular period in Central Asia, The Middle East and the Indian Subcontinent and more a random assortment of different periods/inspirations. The Persian Capital being Babylon harkens back to the Achemenid Persian Empire, the one of 300 and Alexander fame, but the Archetecture and sets look like that of Islamic Times (sometimes in certain Adaptations and Abandoned media the Prince existed in Islamic Times) either during the period of the Abbasids (which aren't Persian but Arabs) or during the Seljuk times (though controlling much of Persia were Turkic peoples that adopted Islamic and Persian customs.)
53:21 technically this would be the 3rd time the Prince has saved people. First at the arena, the second as Dark Prince when he bought time for Farah to evacuate people 1:09:46 If you angle it correct when the Prince imagines the mask room, you can cause the Prince to fall, respawn and keep falling several times before actually getting a game over. I got it by accident in the PSP Version
2 Thrones is interesting if for no other reason than you start to see the genesis of Assassins Creed here. Aerial stealth and rooftop platforming. But I also think it was very well constructed, level wise. It would be incredible if they remade WW and TT as one game with all the same mechanics and just patched up the story and made the atmosphere cnsistent, etc. (I agree that it had the potential for a great story).
After beating SoT and watching your video, I queued the WW video and this one while I beat the games, and then come back to hear what you have to say, since the SoT video was so high quality. While I can't say I agree with every single point, I'd say you're pretty spot on with your critique. I loved SoT, it was the first PoP game I played that wasn't on a friend's flip phone, I didn't know about the other two games until years after when a friend told me he only ever got to play TTT. Gotta say, WW wasn't my cup of tea, BUT a lot of effort was put into it, I just wasn't a fan of returning to the same area multiple times (which is weird, since I love Metroid to death). I really liked TTT though, even if it felt like something was missing the whole time I was playing it. Finally a protagonist who mains a dagger as well, not just a big sword because it looks cool. I'm glad they hinted at Farah in WW's ending, and I really like what they did with her design as well. I know they couldn't have her in WW, but Kaileen just felt like she was meant to be eye candy and a rebound for the prince, so I was just happy to have her back. Sad that there weren't moments that you could actually fight side by side with her though, I would have killed for it. TLDR: your videos on the series were great, enjoyed your critique as much as I enjoyed they story for the games :)
That's a high compliment! Glad you enjoyed. I can't help but agree - even one set piece fighting with Farah would have really elevated the third game. Here's hoping to a good decade of reboots!
The diagonal jump at the Middle Tower section is not a glitch at all. The problem is that a lot of old games are designed and tested to run at 30 FPS. Prince of Persia trilogy included. Just have a frame limiter hotkey ready to lock the game at 30 FPS when you experience physics problems, and you won't run into any glitches of that kind.
As someone who prefers gameplay above all, TTT was always my favourite of the original trilogy. The platforming was the best, stealth was more fun than the more repetitive combat, the boss fights were actually fun (something I couldn't say about the other games). The story being a bit weak was hardly an issue to me.
I still wish to see what was originally planned. Kindred Blades it was called if I remember correctly? The Two Thrones is okay for the most part, but after Warrior Within it feels like a downgrade. New platforming mechanics is nice addition, but exploration was changed for linear progression and combat stayed pretty much the same, but makes enemies harder to kill encouraging new yet very lacking stealth mechanics.
Personally, I have more gripes with the gameplay than the story since playing it very recently... 1st, the Sand Credits are meh, don't like that there's a currency for basically extra art instead of upgrades or something more substantial 2nd, the Dark Prince is fun in combat scenarios but in platforming and in general I feel he could've used more polish, The dark prince from a gameplay perspective comes directly from the Sand Wraith from WW with the health slowly draining, but the sand wraith gave you regenerating sand and didn't kill you if you took your time with the puzzles/platforming, things that happened to me a couple of times with the Dark Prince and the checkpoints are TERRIBLE, if you mess up a dark prince part you have to start again from aaaaaaall the way from the beginning in most cases, this wouldn't be as much a problem if they A) gave the dark prince regenerating sand (or at least make it so that you can always regenerate at least 1 tank) or your health didn't drain till death. 3rd, continuing from the Sand Credits, there are no major upgrades like in warrior withing where you would get better swords, all the upgrades that you get are sand tanks and sand techniques, it would've been cool if we got any kind of upgrades, or anything to feel like we've progressed through the game besides your father's sword. 4th, if you obtain all of the life upgrades in WW you get the water sword which gives you the true ending and is a big bonus in damage, I feel like they could've at least made something or given you a reward for getting all of the hidden health upgrades. Overall, I feel like they tried to go back to the formula from SOT ignoring much of the great things that WW introduced, It's like WW did 10 steps forward and TT takes 2 steps back from the decisions or gameplay options that WW gave in order to go back to the style of SOT, which is pretty funny if you think about it, All of the game is based around moving forward and recognizing the past mistakes and learning about them instead of seeking the long way around to "fix everything" but the game does the exact opposite.
The game didn't show it, but the people fighting against sand monsters actually carried waterguns with them, they practically slaughtered the whole army and just kinda chilled out
Valentine Thanks for watching! Honestly I’m sitting on my Forgotten Sands script right now, just need to record the damn thing once I’ve moved apartment!
In sands of time when we pause or tries to quit,or in any other situation,prince voice says the story is not over or this is not how it happened,he was telling a past story not narrating it,which we came to know in pop tt ending whe begins telling the story from beginning to princess of india or farah. Btw i loked the tt type cutscene of the sot ❤
Thank you for thoses beautiful reviews of the trilogy you've made. Nice detailed analysis👍🏽. I kind of wich we got the dark shadow man version at the end of Warrior Within (the last cutscene) in a new alternate release version of two thrones, the idea was cool! And just for info, about the portals the Vizir uses, the Prince does use them but only in the PSP version of the two Thones wich is "Rival Sword". Again thank you for thoses reviews!
Everyone who loves PoP, especially Two Thrones, if you played it JUST on PC, Xbox, PS3 or GameCube, you should do two playthrough on PS2 and PSP. PS2: has VASTLY better visuals than PC (generally higher quality textures, more light shafts, better particles, weapon trails, better speed kill visuals, better coloring, better lighting in general, more particles). PSP: the game has more levels. Every time you reach a sand portal, it actually teleports you to a quick level.
Thanks for the insight, Rares! It’s interesting the variances that Ubisoft would implement across different platforms, i.e the Forgetton Sands on the Wii products
Great video, pointing out the things perfectly, however I know that the video was purely focused on retrospection rather than explaining the alternate opportunities that could have made the series better but it would have been nice if you would have included it, also you missed a few important details, there is a lot to unpack here about the series, but I'll just one thing from the two thrones, as we ascending towards the vizier while using the escalator, the kaileena explains that she knew that this was about to happen (which a lot people actually do not notice), I mean like why would you let this happen and not let the prince know of this if you already knew that the place is being attacked by vizier which has come to life, also I feel its kinda pointless that the prince is under the guilt to undo the mistakes as if he was not the vizier that tricked him into opening the sands.
I had recently revisited the original trilogy and honestly I liked the 3rd one as it had a fitting ending and closure to the saga . . . Although I will not say that it could have been so much better, considering Ubisoft had forced the developers into some serious 6 month long crunch in development to make the game, so clearly if given more time then it could've been much more but unfortunately for circumstances we got what we got . . . I do give respects to the original POP team back at the time managing to come out with something good in such a short amount of time, the same goes for Warrior Within, now all that is left is that we need the remake of the trilogy and it be given the respect and care it deserves
18:20 I also thought the game would take place centuries b.C, but a person said it was medieval persia, I checked and it says the game takes place in te 9th century AD, didn't expect it really
I never understood the people who complain that Warrior Within and Two Thrones do things differently than the Sands of Time and that it allegedly “doesn’t work as well”. These games are not Sands of Time. And as someone who played these games without rose tinted glasses, I thought they worked well enough. I think most people claim that the latter two games are somehow inferior, because they want to relive the Sands of Time experience and not because these games are genuinely worse.
I preferred it to Warrior Within. I thought this was a decent trade off between SoT and WW. Tonewise it's not as tight as the first one but the gameplay holds up surprisingly well last time I played it (circa 2015).
I know you only touched on it, but doesn’t he transform into the dark Prince due to the sand travelling up the chain weapon stuck in his arm when the Vizier released the sands? I thought it was pretty obvious.
Great review pf the trilogy! Subbed :) I find WW the best game in the series (love them all though). And the ending in TT is actually great, but I wouldn’t mind more narration and story beats during the gameplay.
Just finished watching all 3 of your POP reviews and I think you were right on! Very well done reviews. 👏 I had just picked up the games again after 7 years and had fun going even further down the rabbit hole with your videos. I'd put the games in order of best to worst as 1 2 3. Loved the first one and still liked the other two but they couldn't beat the first. And then the 2008 one, I'm on the outside I guess cuz I loved that one too! But I always liked more of the acrobatics, or traversing the terrain, over the combat so I felt that the 2008 one was more tailored to that and I enjoyed it a lot. The green running along the walls power was my favorite addition to that game. 😊 And I wonder if u would like that game too? 🤔 Anyway, great reviews! It's been fun playing these games again after so long. 😁
The WW ending showing an imposter that took over Babylon and they were going to follow on that story since all trailers were about kindered blades but in the end we got T2T but some ideas from kindered blade made it into T2T tho.
I think the part where you edplain what happens before the game is totally wrong. The Prince saves Kaileena and they go to Babylon. All the time artifacts such as the dagger or the hourglass do exist, but the sands were never created. If the sands exist, the maharaja gets to the island, he gets all the treasure, then the vizier betrays the maharaja and uses the persians to get the dagger and the hourglass. If the sands dont exist, the maharaja gets to the island, he gets only the artifacts (not the sands), but when the maharaja gets visions by the dagger about Kaileena and the Prince, the vizier betrays the maharaja, he takes the power and attacks Babylon, waiting for the Prince and Kaileena to kill her and get the sands.
Also the first dialogue between the Prince and the Dark Prince is not about him becoming infected. We know that the Prince has become a sand monster because of the moment he had no protection when the sands were released. The dialogue is about how he is still himself even if infected.
As i said in the first message, the vizier helps the persians to get the dagger of time. When the prince takes Kaileena with him, the sands were never created, so the vizier never helps the persians, but he betrays the maharaja anyway when he gets the visions from the dagger. This is why farah is not so angry with Sharaman and the prince.
Yeah, the Vizier's dialogue played in the video immediately before the narrated summary lays it out - the Vizier, seeking immortality, persuaded the Maharajah to mount an expedition to the Island of Time, but, because of the changed timeline, all they found was the dagger, the staff and the prepared hourglass, but no Sands (at least none active) and no defenders. Then, when the Prince and Kaileena emerged from the sand portal, the Dagger awoke and told the Vizier that the Empress was coming to Babylon. The Maharajah wasn't interested in attacking Babylon at the Vizier's suggestion, so the Vizier murdered the Maharajah and claimed control of his army, using it to attack (and conquer) Babylon, presumably also capturing and imprisoning Farah at some point during the process. It does raise some questions about the nature of the Dagger - despite never displaying any sort of malign influence over the Prince, if the Vizier's monologuing is to be believed, it not only alerted him to Kaileena's presence in the present, but also actively deceived him about something.
@@rmsgrey i think the dagger only shows the vizier about Kaileena, maybe because it is connected to the sands of time, maybe because "like the Dahaka" the future must not be changed.
@@rmsgrey maybe it is the same power used to see the future in sands of time when you save. Maybe when Kaileena returned to the present, it activated something in the dagger that showed the future to who was holding it.
This was the only game in the trilogy that I never beat, I got to the final boss twice but both times it bugged out on one of the swinging poles and wouldn't let me move any further so I just kept dying
Im having a nelson mandela effect, I played this game in the original Xbox, and I remember that version had dismemberments and decapitations, does someone know why that was cut from the PC version and also ps2?
Warrior Within made me realize that the Sands of Time lighting is probably never going to strike again with this franchise. Because of that I skipped this game, though maybe I shouldn't have seeing your video. Still, it kind of makes me sad to see characters I loved so much struggling to live up to their former glory in this corny Hollywood plot.
Thanks mate, surreal to hear some people watched through all 3. I have a few other games / franchises I want to touch on first, but I plan to get to Forgotten Sands later this year :)
@@Zikemach what about pop 2008? I feel it is quite underated. I don't say it is a hidden gem, but I think for what it tried to achieve, it went great. A cool, relaxed adventure, more of a journey through beautifull landscapes rather than a fight for survival.
Mike, I really love watching your videos! I'm learning about narrative/game design from it. I'm actually an indie game developer myself. Is there any chance I can contact you somewhere and ask for advice/critique on the game/story we're making? I would be super lucky to get advice from someone with such narrative analysis skills.We're making Shadows of Solomon, lovecraftian naval action-adventure game, where you explore the dark and mysterious seas of Divinheim with the ability to bend and mold the waters around you to defeat enemies and solve puzzles. The game is story-driven so narrative is a very big part of it
Mikhail Kudelia Hey Mikhail. That’s super flattering - I’m really just someone who like reading and writing, certainly no authority in the space. I’m a little time poor at the moment but I’d be happy to read over your concept. Fee free to just leave a comment on my channel’s discussion page or shoot me a message on reddit - user is /u/MikeZachh
I see you are quite obsessed with Farah, But I don't know what's your problem is with kaileena you keep pointing her as an uninteresting character but do you know one thing ,She never defended herself against the Vizier only so that prince can set things right still you say she's a cruel person. Don't you feel T2T was too harsh on her charcter just as she dies,the prince just forgets about her,it's too cruel to anyone
the issue with two thrones is, that it was way less than warrior within... KINDRED BLADES would have been the perfect sequel and that could have made the best trilogy ever... i loved two thrones but compared to KB its a joke... :/
![Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones | Hard, No Damage, No Rewind, No Upgrades [2022]](/img/n.gif)
Major themes that the Prince of Persia Sands of Time trilogy taught me:
Sand of Time: You can fix your mistakes.
Warrior Within: You can change your fate.
Two Thrones: You can live with the consequences of your actions.
Nice little summary. For all the issues I have with Two Thrones, the takeaway of forgiving yourself, moving on and becoming a better man do resonate nicely.
How do you like the opening narration by Kaileena? "We all make mistakes. Some are small and some are large. But his mistake born of innocence fuelled by pride was the most greatest and terrible of them all"
That line is one of the best lines in the series for me
The best line for me would be the prince's speech when he is at his lowest:
"You were right. I have been like a child. Naive and arrogant. Always rushing to undo my mistakes. Never facing the consequences of my actions... No more. I accept what I have done, and all that it applies."
It’s iconic to me, when I was a kid I used to keep replaying the game up until the giant fight. I really liked the game up until that part. One day I’ll finish it but I haven’t played POP3 in over 14 years.
The Two Thrones got backlash...? Literally every person I've ever talked to about it enjoyed the hell out of it! It was a great game!
The only thing that i dislike about it is that its the shortest game out of the 3. But the limited gameplay that it has is the best out of the 3.
@@OchiiDinUmbraa Two thrones is my favourite
Agreed
That's what I'm wondering bro. I never saw a single person hating/disliking this game
It's mostly the writing and the interactions between Farah and the Prince that are disappointing compared to SoT, but it's a good game and a better end to the story than most franchises get.
The whole story is very symbolic
Its charts the story of a boy born into power becoming a man, after going through many hardships and tones of mistakes
Not only does he come to terms with his darkside, but he integrates it into his personality, he excepts that he isn't perfect and that as long as he is aware of it he can choose the path towards the highest good
Its a proper hero's journey
Part of what makes this a great conclusion to the trilogy is how this game is a repeat of many events from the first game, just differently. This really adds to how the Prince mostly just failed to fix things in his attempts to reverse his mistakes.
Been loving this nostalgia trip from this series. The sands of time trilogy were my favourite games from back when I was about 12 to 15. I still remember Warrior Within being the first game I bought for my PS2.
I think you captured it so well in saying that many points in this game just missed the mark. Sands of Time and Warrior Within both had so much style and character that I can remember playing them vividly while Two Thrones, while it manages to be a fitting ending to the series and synthesize the wildly different tones of the previous games was ultimately forgettable (I will pay that the returned voice actor for the prince had some fantastic delivery and watching and I could hear his delivery in my head ahead of the soundclips in this review).
For me I think my favourite in the series was Warrior Within. The tone, the setting of two time periods on the island of time, the nu-metal, and the upgraded combat were things that I fell in love with when I was younger. But the whole series will hold a special place. I may give them another play through after watching your series.
Thanks mate! POP:TT definitely had potential to surpass Warrior Within, and I'd love to see what a modern take on the series could do with the more talented writers that Ubisoft seems to employ today. It definitely a fun series to return to every half decade or so :)
@@Zikemach definitely! I think that how obvious the potential was only made it ring a bit more hollow in the end. I did love that Ubisoft were willing to try something a bit different with each game in the trilogy though (later games in the series may be a different story).
I would love to see what could be done with the POP title this decade. I'd like to see the time controlling powers again because they're so fun and we don't see them that often, but otherwise I want to see what new stories a team of creative's could come up with for a Persian Prince.
i have absolutely the same experiences towards the triology! PoP WW was and will be my favourite, i played it more than 28 times( yes i counted every and each form the age 12). Two thrones just needed one more year so they can work on it! it was rushed and redesigned! i wonder what The Kindred Blandes would have been like! it would continue the darker tone of the first one and seemed a lot more interesting in general! Truly around stealth more gory ! Great potential lost because they changed game director mid-development.
@@Zikemach just 1 correction POP is set in Medieval Persia (at least the Sands of time one) as its said to take place in the 9th century AD during the rise of Islam likely the Saffarids ( as they fit the timeline and have a boarder to the Indian subcontinent) as the Abbasids were Arabs not Persian.
The film is the most Anacronistic being set in the time of the Persian Empires of the Iron age yet is Islamic in archetecture and Culture (Alamut was not a thing until the Middle ages)
@@Zikemach Assassin's Creed was also suppose to be a POP Game that reboots the timeline to the 12th Century (as the Assassin order is primarily based in Persia) during the Crusades and is a Prequel to the series.
This again reboots the Bloodline of the Prince from Saffarid to Khwarezmian who are the Perisan-Turkic rulers of Persia that the Mongols later destroyed.
I love the pomegranate scene. It was also how I found out about the fruit and it is now my favorite fruit. I was 16 I believe.
Please do Prince of Persia 2008 reboot, i love these long reviews!!!
I'm going on a bit of a POP detox for awhile, looking at some more modern stuff now :) But definitely sometime in the future!
@@Zikemach I played the 2008 version first and hence have a huge soft spot for it. I can see how it might have offended people who were attached to the old characters. I think one really has to approach it as a completely new character, but at the same time I can see how one can't just say "I wish they had just named it something else, so people who could just approach it on its own terms", because in the end the concept of platforming, middle eastern style, love story, sort of immature main character is just too similar.
I do think it got unfairly maligned for things that were in the end imo quite ahead of their time. I remember people BLASTING it for the fact that you couldn't get a game over, but I think making the restarts something that is part of the story was actually quite graceful. Now the combat was trash and a complete waste of time, but I liked the platforming and I also really liked how they left it up to you how much of the backstory you wanted to hear/how much you wanted to talk to your companion during gameplay.
Another interesting thing about it is the ending and how that was further explored in a DLC that I think came out on only one platform? And might be impossible to get at this point?
@@notmynamedammit It's also worth remembering that Sands of Time was itself the fourth Prince of Persia game, so there was precedent within the series for completely rebooting the plot even before the 2008 game.
But, yeah, the ending of the plot was kinda unsatisfying, and the DLC (that came out on both major consoles but not PC) reportedly ends with its own cliffhanger/sequel bait.
There's some interesting world-building, and the free-flowing parkour sections were generally good gameplay, but, yeah, the game clearly had no idea how to end its story (which may be part of the explanation for there being no sequel)
Amazing analysis and thank you for reminding everyone this masterpiece exists. The Prince's arc was just as compelling as Guts from Berserk or Geralt from the witcher or Kratos from God of war.
Nikil Bellad thanks for watching! Definitely, over three games the arc we get rivals what you might find in a novel or longform manga. Similar to God of War, it’d be an absolute treat if Ubisoft to returned to this after almost two decades, giving us an older, different but fundamentally the same Prince
@@Zikemach we had recently got a leak of a new prince of Persia in 2020 by ubisoft no official confirmation though.
Guts and the Prince are two of my favorite fictional protagonists.
Nikil Bellad Oh wow, how fitting! Would be perfect timing if something released in 2021 so I could add to the series 🙂
@@Zikemach you could try to cover the recent star wars fallen order game if possible.
Honestly, I favor all three games (Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Warrior Within, and The Two Thrones) and I have fond memories of playing them. Got to admit, though, your videos are educational, makes me feel like how I could make good stories. Thanks for the work you made.
Just watched through all of your videos on this trilogy-really sharp, entertaining analysis and look forward to more.
I find your long-form thoughtful reviews absolutely excellent. I have come to prefer this type of content, as I find it cathartic; like somehow it helps me to digest and contemplate the entire experience, further cement its subtleties in my mind, and grapple with its metaphors.
I personally watched your SoT video after replaying the game for perhaps the 7th time in 12 years. After I saw you continued through the PoP series with your videos, I was inspired to begin my marathon of the entire trilogy, replaying the SoT and TT, while finishing WW for the first time (as I had never played it when I was young like I was with SoT, and never finished WW it when I tried it some years ago,) And then taking a break to watch your video and sleep on the experience. What a wild ride and I can't believe what a great experience it was.
I find your input thoughtful, your attention to detail methodical, and your dissection of story fantastic. I eagerly await more videos like this from you, which you generously and so laboriously see fit to provide, and continue volunteering to create.
Thanks!! That sounds like a very fulfilling gaming / story consumption experience. Glad I was able to play a part and that you got to enjoy the series yet another time :)
I feel The Two Thrones is an unlucky game. It feels rushed because it started off as a completely different game, called Prince of Persia: Kindered Blades. It was supposed to be a direct sequel to Warrior Within, much like The Two Thrones, except it kept the dark tone and violence from its predecessor. The game would have been much less linear, you could switch between the Prince and the (very different looking) Dark Prince at your own will and you had multiple endings. The villain would have been some unknown doppelganger willing to steal the Prince's identity (possibly a nod to the plot of The Shadow and The Flame). Also, apparently we would have delved deeper into the relationship between the Prince and Kaileena, and she eventually commited suicide to somehow help the Prince. You can find a few early gameplay footage and more info online.
At the end of the day, I'm really glad we got The Two Thrones instead. While it is inferior to the previous games in many ways, it offers the best plot and the best ending the trilogy has to offer imho. Farah really gets the best out of the Prince and the Dark Prince is just hilarious. Watching the Prince suffer (and backtrack) some more in Kindered Blades would have been a real bummer to me. I just wish the devs started with the concept for The Two Thrones right from the beginning, that way much of the problems you highlighted in your analysis would've gotten ironed out. It could have been the best game of the trilogy, possibly even surpassing Sands of Time, but oh well.
You know one thing whatever kindred blades showed is the same thing that happens in game except for the suicide part,still she dies at the hands of Vizier sacrificing herself to help the prince with power of sands so that he can defeat the army and set things right.
Sadly this is not well narrated in the game
"Rival Swords" is the name of the PSP port of Two Thrones. Might've been inspired by the name of Kindred Blades.
Maybe they could add some of these concepts and modify the story a little if they remaster the game
Thank you for making these detailed satisfying studies.
The Prince of Persia series is one of the greats in gaming and few give the attention to understand precisely what made it so strong.
Hope you continue making more videos and thank you again for the nostalgia and the depth of your review.
I didn't know this game needed to be defended. Its really good as the others. One of the most underrated trilogy of games ever. I hope we get a reboot/remake, this is way cooler than just another crappy Assassin's Creed game
Assassin's Creed is pretty good though
@@FraserSouris the first trilogy and upto AC 4 was good, then it just turned into Ubisoft milking the franchise and churning out more and more triple A titles
@@echelon1014 except these later games Ubisoft released are better than the original Trilogy + 4.
You finally have actually good and deep combat with distinct playstyles with weapons, abilities and bows instead of boring OP instakill counters dominating everything.
You finally have fluid stealth movement with many abilities to play with and you can actually crouch.
You finally have decent player progression and specialization that makes player choices in how they proceed feel distinct rather than vestigial.
If these older games released for the first time now, they would be quite disliked for how primitive and underwhelming they are.
@@FraserSouris ua-cam.com/video/UOgvbS4GkF0/v-deo.html
@@echelon1014 Dunkey is a hater who often says what is popular and rarely gives an actual critical look at many of the games he reviews
Dude i've been binging your Prince of Persia reviews and it made me fall in love with the series again. It also gave me more context about this series's themes. Really thankful that you made these videos! Thank you.
Btw at 31:24 in the psp version you go through the teleporter and discover some ancient stuff about the lore.
ParaSMG _ Hearing that half makes me want to dust off the old PSP and see what’s there for myself!
@@Zikemach its quite interesting but also weird cause they say that the magical fountains in the sands of time was a creation of kaileena and that she always helped the prince or something(?)
The Prince in this game was my childhood hero and he played a part in who I grew up to be and the values I would develop more than my pathetic parents. I'll never forget the Prince saying qoute " I think a true warrior fights for something other than himself "
The thing is that most of the promotion material was about kindred blade which was the actual 3rd game with a very different plot and story and this is why many people were upset about the two thrones
Honestly for me, the story of Two Thrones was one of its best things but there's one major problem i have with it: KAILEENA WAS DONE SO DIRTY IN IT.
I understand what they were going for and what her death meant for the Prince's development but come on, she shoudn't have died so easily. I mean, she was the Empress of Time, the very vessel of the sands of time, someone who could SUMMON TORNADOES AND SLOW DOWN TIME, CREATE SAND CREATURES ON TOP OF BEING A MASTER SWORDSMAN ON THE SAME LEVEL ON THE PRINCE.
SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN KILLED OFF SO EASILY. AT THE VERY LEAST THEY COULD HAVE HAD HER TAKING DOWN DOZENS IF NOT HUNDREDS OF SOLDIERS TO SHOW HOW POWERFUL SHE WAS!
They tied up the girl that can teleport and summon things
Yup. They retconned out all of her powers, replaced with Padme levels of "she lost the will to live".
I don't like this part because it doesn't really move past warrior within, it tries to walk it back. Prince isn't *mature* past his WW angry, angsty phase, he's back to being a kid, tempted by his dark ego to be the mean kid again, but turning out as the good kid starry eyed idealist, as if WW never happened.
Both staying an angsty angry teenager and returning to an idealist youngster persona are wrong. It's been seven years + however long Warrior Within took. I needed him to be an adult in this one, arguing against the dark prince from a position of WISDOM, not kiddy idealism
@@mikoajpytlik5225 my god, you have no idea how happy i am to finally meet someone who thinks it the same way i do!
And guess why the Prince went back to his SOT self instead of developing more from his WW self? Because Sands of Time Fanboys bitched on Warrior Within's darker tone and thus, Ubisoft downgraded the game and ruined the characters and story.
Man you deserve a hell lot of more subscribers and recognition . Such well crafted reviews you have there. Keep it going and I hope one day you will reach more people to see your creations because they are amazing.
As someone said about the Prince of Persia (trilogy) games
For every step forward, there is also a step back.
I really appreciate the trilogy, and they share the spot of my favorite games of all time, and if they somehow managed to take the best parts of all the games it would definitely make for a "perfect" game
As you pointed out, The Two Thrones took the sand wraith´s life-drain gameplay mechanic from Warrior Within and turned it into the intriguingly thematic dark prince sections. I also love how this game is linear and cinematic in terms of pacing, as a breather of sorts, as opposed to the "confined" open world of WW (my fav. game of the trilogy btw), which was a lot of fun still but it made the 2nd entry drag a little near the end. The only issue I have with TT is the couple of game breaking glitches. And the fact that there's a long way from the save file to the Twins boss fight.
Thanks for doing this review.
Cheers from Iran.
Thanks for watching Aria! I agree the TT leaner experience felt more appropriate, even if it wasn’t a stronger game overall.
@@Zikemach Exactly! TT does a great job of incorporating gameplay elements into the story (much like SoT). Now that I've played Dark Souls 1,2,3, I feel as if I've already played the "souls" series before in Warrior Within; in that, WW somehow felt encumbered to tell its story coherently. The souls series similarly and yet strangely, actively tries to avoid any form of overt storytelling, going to such extremes as to hide main plot elements in item descriptions...something which I find quite pretentious and counter-productive, as much as I love the 1st Dark Souls.
just got done watching ur analysis on the trilogy, such a joyride, totally get ur statement on being burned out from playing PoP games , rest well sweet prince
ahaha thanks friend, really is nice to hear some people went through the trilogy. Working on new games / videos for awhile, but I'm sure I'll return eventually!
SO every game critique video on YT I found was all for the new games (obviously).. I didn't expect to find one for POP, a favourtie game of mine and not just cause of nostalgia. But Ididn't expect to be so engrossed in them and you pointing out where improvements could have been made has got me wondering more.. Your videos are well made and I'm glad i came across them. Cheers!!!
These long form discussion videos are addictive af.Good work man.
great series of videos homie. I watched them all in one day. Very good commentary and I even learned some things, like Why Farah steals the dagger and the sword in the first game, rewinding the dahaka translates his speech, Kaileena being an abusive woman, the things that should impact the prince, I didn't bat an eye when the parallel timeline prince died. Thnx for this awesome triology review. Respect +
Wow, this was a very good Review. I appreciate the amount of work in it. Thank you
Long way to the desert Thanks for watching! Hope you stick around
Great video, really enjoyed it.
I'm one of the few people who rates The Two Thrones as my favorite game in the trilogy and actually one of my Top 5 games of all time. It has the best gameplay by far and while I agree with a lot of what you say about the story, I loved the characters, especially the Prince / Dark Prince banter.
I'm looking forward to The Sands of Time remake and hoping that there's a chance Ubisoft go on to re-do the whole trilogy - it would be a great chance to re-dub the Prince in Warrior Within with Yuri and also Farah in The Two Thrones in order to give some proper continuity.
I followed the developement of 2005. I hated the end result: the story and the game itself felt short, too bright light blendings, and many bugs. It was as huge buggy mess as WW was. It clearly felt unfinished.
After hindsight, TT with its team had the most unfortunate developement cycle.
The devs had to change the design after the E3 presentation - less WW elements and copying more the original SoT narrative, imo an executive decision- , lost ressources due to the sudden shift to the new Assassin Creed Project, and the deadline was within a year after WW is finished. My take is also they hyped too much with the clean E3 demo, a phenomenon which we are familiar with todays Cyberpunk.
All in all, TT stays an example how bad management decisions can ruin a big potential game. Despite that the team did an incredible job to finish and deliver a (somewhat lukewarm) product and keep a good script. My respect goes to the old dev team!
Loved the stealth in this game, i just wish the QTEs gave you more time to react (mainly on bosses). I’d like to see a form of this mechanic implemented into the Sands Of Time remake
Surprisingly, regarding the bugs, i generally had a very clean run of the trilogy. But i do remember the spring thing, and also one dark prince segment where the enemies didnt spawn and i fumbled around confused as to what did i do wrong and then died. Oh well.
Also the Steam version didnt have either glowing tattoos (bad) or eye searing visier (good). At least i really dont remember being him that bright
You calling the statue puzzle very simple make me feel so stupid, i was stuck for an hour xD
KOT EBANA ROT ahaha no offence intended! Simple more in the grand scale, and how uninspired the scene felt compared to, say, the Grand Library in SOT!!
I remember never having any problems with bugs when playing on Gamecube back in the day, but certainly the PC version is somewhat buggy & glitchy.
@@Zikemach I left playing the two thrones for a year becuase of the statue puzzle 😂 but I love it 10/10
For me Two Thrones is my favorite of the trilogy simply because the gameplay is the best in the series, the boss fights are amazing (in my opinion), I really like the story and getting all the collectibles (like the cutscenes, the "bloopers" and concept art) was an absolute joy for me!
This one is my favorite in the franchise. I don't care what anyone says. I love all of the new mechanics and playing as the dark prince are my favorite parts of the game. Also the relationship plotline feels the most realized in this one.
The ending is just *chef's kiss. The prince becomes King and Farah is on his side. There is nothing else to say its over they are together well earned but only we saw all that happend in the first game not because he earned her trust and respect in this game alone. Still a very satisfying end 10/10 for me. I love this game played it a ton its a very long game sands of time is short VERY short i finish it in 3h47min. That story is the best of all but this end is perfect.
Imo, two thrones felt like a PSP spin off. Length wise and just overall feel of the levels
I love these long reviews of yours. Really enjoyed them. Thank you :).
Thanks Praj 😗
POP has a weird setting TBH, its less a particular period in Central Asia, The Middle East and the Indian Subcontinent and more a random assortment of different periods/inspirations.
The Persian Capital being Babylon harkens back to the Achemenid Persian Empire, the one of 300 and Alexander fame, but the Archetecture and sets look like that of Islamic Times (sometimes in certain Adaptations and Abandoned media the Prince existed in Islamic Times) either during the period of the Abbasids (which aren't Persian but Arabs) or during the Seljuk times (though controlling much of Persia were Turkic peoples that adopted Islamic and Persian customs.)
Robin Atkin Downed should’ve voiced the disembodied voice since the Dark Prince himself is basically Warrior Within Prince
53:21 technically this would be the 3rd time the Prince has saved people. First at the arena, the second as Dark Prince when he bought time for Farah to evacuate people
1:09:46
If you angle it correct when the Prince imagines the mask room, you can cause the Prince to fall, respawn and keep falling several times before actually getting a game over. I got it by accident in the PSP Version
2 Thrones is interesting if for no other reason than you start to see the genesis of Assassins Creed here. Aerial stealth and rooftop platforming. But I also think it was very well constructed, level wise. It would be incredible if they remade WW and TT as one game with all the same mechanics and just patched up the story and made the atmosphere cnsistent, etc. (I agree that it had the potential for a great story).
After beating SoT and watching your video, I queued the WW video and this one while I beat the games, and then come back to hear what you have to say, since the SoT video was so high quality. While I can't say I agree with every single point, I'd say you're pretty spot on with your critique. I loved SoT, it was the first PoP game I played that wasn't on a friend's flip phone, I didn't know about the other two games until years after when a friend told me he only ever got to play TTT. Gotta say, WW wasn't my cup of tea, BUT a lot of effort was put into it, I just wasn't a fan of returning to the same area multiple times (which is weird, since I love Metroid to death). I really liked TTT though, even if it felt like something was missing the whole time I was playing it. Finally a protagonist who mains a dagger as well, not just a big sword because it looks cool.
I'm glad they hinted at Farah in WW's ending, and I really like what they did with her design as well. I know they couldn't have her in WW, but Kaileen just felt like she was meant to be eye candy and a rebound for the prince, so I was just happy to have her back. Sad that there weren't moments that you could actually fight side by side with her though, I would have killed for it.
TLDR: your videos on the series were great, enjoyed your critique as much as I enjoyed they story for the games :)
That's a high compliment! Glad you enjoyed. I can't help but agree - even one set piece fighting with Farah would have really elevated the third game. Here's hoping to a good decade of reboots!
The diagonal jump at the Middle Tower section is not a glitch at all. The problem is that a lot of old games are designed and tested to run at 30 FPS. Prince of Persia trilogy included. Just have a frame limiter hotkey ready to lock the game at 30 FPS when you experience physics problems, and you won't run into any glitches of that kind.
Still love this great Trilogy. Still in my heart. I am not even sure it need a remake/remaster.
As someone who prefers gameplay above all, TTT was always my favourite of the original trilogy. The platforming was the best, stealth was more fun than the more repetitive combat, the boss fights were actually fun (something I couldn't say about the other games). The story being a bit weak was hardly an issue to me.
3:36 - You're meeting that person right now. Hey there.
CuteSkyler 😂 glad to see they exist!
Mostly what happens when you only play this entry as a kid
I still wish to see what was originally planned. Kindred Blades it was called if I remember correctly? The Two Thrones is okay for the most part, but after Warrior Within it feels like a downgrade. New platforming mechanics is nice addition, but exploration was changed for linear progression and combat stayed pretty much the same, but makes enemies harder to kill encouraging new yet very lacking stealth mechanics.
Personally, I have more gripes with the gameplay than the story since playing it very recently...
1st, the Sand Credits are meh, don't like that there's a currency for basically extra art instead of upgrades or something more substantial
2nd, the Dark Prince is fun in combat scenarios but in platforming and in general I feel he could've used more polish, The dark prince from a gameplay perspective comes directly from the Sand Wraith from WW with the health slowly draining, but the sand wraith gave you regenerating sand and didn't kill you if you took your time with the puzzles/platforming, things that happened to me a couple of times with the Dark Prince and the checkpoints are TERRIBLE, if you mess up a dark prince part you have to start again from aaaaaaall the way from the beginning in most cases, this wouldn't be as much a problem if they A) gave the dark prince regenerating sand (or at least make it so that you can always regenerate at least 1 tank) or your health didn't drain till death.
3rd, continuing from the Sand Credits, there are no major upgrades like in warrior withing where you would get better swords, all the upgrades that you get are sand tanks and sand techniques, it would've been cool if we got any kind of upgrades, or anything to feel like we've progressed through the game besides your father's sword.
4th, if you obtain all of the life upgrades in WW you get the water sword which gives you the true ending and is a big bonus in damage, I feel like they could've at least made something or given you a reward for getting all of the hidden health upgrades.
Overall, I feel like they tried to go back to the formula from SOT ignoring much of the great things that WW introduced, It's like WW did 10 steps forward and TT takes 2 steps back from the decisions or gameplay options that WW gave in order to go back to the style of SOT, which is pretty funny if you think about it, All of the game is based around moving forward and recognizing the past mistakes and learning about them instead of seeking the long way around to "fix everything" but the game does the exact opposite.
The game didn't show it, but the people fighting against sand monsters actually carried waterguns with them, they practically slaughtered the whole army and just kinda chilled out
Thank you for such amazing videos. Brilliant analysis.
I love the Vizier as the friggin glowing Majestic Moth Monster in this one.
He went from an old Indian man to a pale white twink
Great job on the commentaries bro, really enjoying them!
dang it watched all reviews in one evening - freakin love those 3 games
Would you review POP:The Forgotten Sands?
Love these reviews btw😄
Thanks for watching :). I will revisit Forgotten Sands eventually, maybe later in the year!
Your channel is criminally underrated. Would love to see your foray into PoP 2008 and The Forgotten Sands.
Valentine Thanks for watching! Honestly I’m sitting on my Forgotten Sands script right now, just need to record the damn thing once I’ve moved apartment!
@@Zikemach Looking forward to this!
@@Zikemach nice! I'm excited to hear that one
Q: How did the Vizier know about the Prince?
A: The Dagger of Time is a snitch
TRUE
In sands of time when we pause or tries to quit,or in any other situation,prince voice says the story is not over or this is not how it happened,he was telling a past story not narrating it,which we came to know in pop tt ending whe begins telling the story from beginning to princess of india or farah.
Btw i loked the tt type cutscene of the sot ❤
Thank you for thoses beautiful reviews of the trilogy you've made. Nice detailed analysis👍🏽. I kind of wich we got the dark shadow man version at the end of Warrior Within (the last cutscene) in a new alternate release version of two thrones, the idea was cool! And just for info, about the portals the Vizir uses, the Prince does use them but only in the PSP version of the two Thones wich is "Rival Sword". Again thank you for thoses reviews!
Okay, I shit you not, I think two thrones was my favorite of the trilogy, or close second after the first.
I've been waiting for someone to do long analysis of pop games. These are absolutely great 👍
Thank you!!
thanks for not letting these games be forgotten... btw, your combat was much better here haha
Everyone who loves PoP, especially Two Thrones, if you played it JUST on PC, Xbox, PS3 or GameCube, you should do two playthrough on PS2 and PSP.
PS2: has VASTLY better visuals than PC (generally higher quality textures, more light shafts, better particles, weapon trails, better speed kill visuals, better coloring, better lighting in general, more particles).
PSP: the game has more levels. Every time you reach a sand portal, it actually teleports you to a quick level.
Thanks for the insight, Rares! It’s interesting the variances that Ubisoft would implement across different platforms, i.e the Forgetton Sands on the Wii products
I remember playing this when I was 10 or 11 fucking love all the POP games
31:24 actually if you play the psp version u can teleport through these portals. They are called extra levels only for psp
Great video, pointing out the things perfectly, however I know that the video was purely focused on retrospection rather than explaining the alternate opportunities that could have made the series better but it would have been nice if you would have included it, also you missed a few important details, there is a lot to unpack here about the series, but I'll just one thing from the two thrones, as we ascending towards the vizier while using the escalator, the kaileena explains that she knew that this was about to happen (which a lot people actually do not notice), I mean like why would you let this happen and not let the prince know of this if you already knew that the place is being attacked by vizier which has come to life, also I feel its kinda pointless that the prince is under the guilt to undo the mistakes as if he was not the vizier that tricked him into opening the sands.
this is my favorite prince of persia game to this day. i may be biased as this is the first video game i played on my own pc.
I had recently revisited the original trilogy and honestly I liked the 3rd one as it had a fitting ending and closure to the saga . . .
Although I will not say that it could have been so much better, considering Ubisoft had forced the developers into some serious 6 month long crunch in development to make the game, so clearly if given more time then it could've been much more but unfortunately for circumstances we got what we got . . .
I do give respects to the original POP team back at the time managing to come out with something good in such a short amount of time, the same goes for Warrior Within, now all that is left is that we need the remake of the trilogy and it be given the respect and care it deserves
The games are very impressive for the short development timeline - it's hard not to wonder what another 12 months would do!
commenting for the algorithm. Really good stuff. Keep Going.
You’re a beautiful person, Sparrow!
18:20 I also thought the game would take place centuries b.C, but a person said it was medieval persia, I checked and it says the game takes place in te 9th century AD, didn't expect it really
Loved watching your PoP videos, are you planning on playing the remake?
I never understood the people who complain that Warrior Within and Two Thrones do things differently than the Sands of Time and that it allegedly “doesn’t work as well”. These games are not Sands of Time. And as someone who played these games without rose tinted glasses, I thought they worked well enough. I think most people claim that the latter two games are somehow inferior, because they want to relive the Sands of Time experience and not because these games are genuinely worse.
For big jawless my game glitched, it didn't slow down and the dagger didn't glow so I just had to mash and hope for the best.
Love these reviews man.
I preferred it to Warrior Within. I thought this was a decent trade off between SoT and WW. Tonewise it's not as tight as the first one but the gameplay holds up surprisingly well last time I played it (circa 2015).
I know you only touched on it, but doesn’t he transform into the dark Prince due to the sand travelling up the chain weapon stuck in his arm when the Vizier released the sands? I thought it was pretty obvious.
I just found this and I really love it. Thank you for this. Subbed
Great review pf the trilogy! Subbed :)
I find WW the best game in the series (love them all though). And the ending in TT is actually great, but I wouldn’t mind more narration and story beats during the gameplay.
Just finished watching all 3 of your POP reviews and I think you were right on! Very well done reviews. 👏 I had just picked up the games again after 7 years and had fun going even further down the rabbit hole with your videos. I'd put the games in order of best to worst as 1 2 3. Loved the first one and still liked the other two but they couldn't beat the first. And then the 2008 one, I'm on the outside I guess cuz I loved that one too! But I always liked more of the acrobatics, or traversing the terrain, over the combat so I felt that the 2008 one was more tailored to that and I enjoyed it a lot. The green running along the walls power was my favorite addition to that game. 😊 And I wonder if u would like that game too? 🤔 Anyway, great reviews! It's been fun playing these games again after so long. 😁
the only problem i had was that sad feeling of missing details it kinda felt not finished in its details
Why kailena’s t1ts change so much?
The WW ending showing an imposter that took over Babylon and they were going to follow on that story since all trailers were about kindered blades but in the end we got T2T but some ideas from kindered blade made it into T2T tho.
I think the part where you edplain what happens before the game is totally wrong.
The Prince saves Kaileena and they go to Babylon.
All the time artifacts such as the dagger or the hourglass do exist, but the sands were never created.
If the sands exist, the maharaja gets to the island, he gets all the treasure, then the vizier betrays the maharaja and uses the persians to get the dagger and the hourglass.
If the sands dont exist, the maharaja gets to the island, he gets only the artifacts (not the sands), but when the maharaja gets visions by the dagger about Kaileena and the Prince, the vizier betrays the maharaja, he takes the power and attacks Babylon, waiting for the Prince and Kaileena to kill her and get the sands.
Also the first dialogue between the Prince and the Dark Prince is not about him becoming infected.
We know that the Prince has become a sand monster because of the moment he had no protection when the sands were released.
The dialogue is about how he is still himself even if infected.
As i said in the first message, the vizier helps the persians to get the dagger of time.
When the prince takes Kaileena with him, the sands were never created, so the vizier never helps the persians, but he betrays the maharaja anyway when he gets the visions from the dagger.
This is why farah is not so angry with Sharaman and the prince.
Yeah, the Vizier's dialogue played in the video immediately before the narrated summary lays it out - the Vizier, seeking immortality, persuaded the Maharajah to mount an expedition to the Island of Time, but, because of the changed timeline, all they found was the dagger, the staff and the prepared hourglass, but no Sands (at least none active) and no defenders. Then, when the Prince and Kaileena emerged from the sand portal, the Dagger awoke and told the Vizier that the Empress was coming to Babylon. The Maharajah wasn't interested in attacking Babylon at the Vizier's suggestion, so the Vizier murdered the Maharajah and claimed control of his army, using it to attack (and conquer) Babylon, presumably also capturing and imprisoning Farah at some point during the process.
It does raise some questions about the nature of the Dagger - despite never displaying any sort of malign influence over the Prince, if the Vizier's monologuing is to be believed, it not only alerted him to Kaileena's presence in the present, but also actively deceived him about something.
@@rmsgrey i think the dagger only shows the vizier about Kaileena, maybe because it is connected to the sands of time, maybe because "like the Dahaka" the future must not be changed.
@@rmsgrey maybe it is the same power used to see the future in sands of time when you save. Maybe when Kaileena returned to the present, it activated something in the dagger that showed the future to who was holding it.
Loved this. You need more subs!
Too kind Arun!
This was the only game in the trilogy that I never beat, I got to the final boss twice but both times it bugged out on one of the swinging poles and wouldn't let me move any further so I just kept dying
Im having a nelson mandela effect, I played this game in the original Xbox, and I remember that version had dismemberments and decapitations, does someone know why that was cut from the PC version and also ps2?
Warrior Within made me realize that the Sands of Time lighting is probably never going to strike again with this franchise. Because of that I skipped this game, though maybe I shouldn't have seeing your video. Still, it kind of makes me sad to see characters I loved so much struggling to live up to their former glory in this corny Hollywood plot.
Amazing, really enjoyed the trilogy review. Please do the forgotten sands.
Thanks mate, surreal to hear some people watched through all 3.
I have a few other games / franchises I want to touch on first, but I plan to get to Forgotten Sands later this year :)
@@Zikemach what about pop 2008? I feel it is quite underated. I don't say it is a hidden gem, but I think for what it tried to achieve, it went great. A cool, relaxed adventure, more of a journey through beautifull landscapes rather than a fight for survival.
You can turn off the awful bloom by turning off your effects in settings.
Babylon is in Iraq not Persia , because persians have took seige over the city at some point and made it their home... great video!
Mike, I really love watching your videos! I'm learning about narrative/game design from it. I'm actually an indie game developer myself. Is there any chance I can contact you somewhere and ask for advice/critique on the game/story we're making? I would be super lucky to get advice from someone with such narrative analysis skills.We're making Shadows of Solomon, lovecraftian naval action-adventure game, where you explore the dark and mysterious seas of Divinheim with the ability to bend and mold the waters around you to defeat enemies and solve puzzles. The game is story-driven so narrative is a very big part of it
Mikhail Kudelia Hey Mikhail. That’s super flattering - I’m really just someone who like reading and writing, certainly no authority in the space. I’m a little time poor at the moment but I’d be happy to read over your concept. Fee free to just leave a comment on my channel’s discussion page or shoot me a message on reddit - user is /u/MikeZachh
I don't think it needs much 'defence'. It's a great game, my second favorite just after Sands of Time.
Thanks for this masterpiece video
Too kind mate.
For some reason they left the textures of princes face but made everyone Georgians in the cutscenes...
Kids these days will never taste this beauty.
I see you are quite obsessed with Farah,
But I don't know what's your problem is with kaileena you keep pointing her as an uninteresting character but do you know one thing ,She never defended herself against the Vizier only so that prince can set things right still you say she's a cruel person.
Don't you feel T2T was too harsh on her charcter just as she dies,the prince just forgets about her,it's too cruel to anyone
the issue with two thrones is, that it was way less than warrior within... KINDRED BLADES would have been the perfect sequel and that could have made the best trilogy ever... i loved two thrones but compared to KB its a joke... :/
You really should do an assassin's creed video, i love watching these
Thank you🔥🔥🔥
Defence?! WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH!! WHY THE FUCK DOES IT NEED DEFENCE?!!!! It's already the best game!!!
This is great and these games are not talked about enough.
Two thrones is not complete game anyway it was originally called king of blades the og e3 game they got 3 cut content half of it 😞😞