Another system worth to mention is the light rail/tram in Kaohsiung, Taiwan. The trams are powered by capacitors and charge by overhead wires in the stations, similar to that in Detroit.
Birmingham (UK) has off wire running for part of the city centre where the wires were deemed too visually intrusive. That is when we have any trams at all as currently we have no service due to cracks being found in the underbody of the trams!
Yes the VLT system in Rio de Janeiro was just being finished when I was there in 2015. It had helped revive the city centre and port areas that were fairly derelict when I first went in 1996. The area is quite beautiful now.
catenary are not that ugly. we have them in florence and to be honest paved road are way worst looking than a grass tram track with some cable above it.
Nice Video, I never knew there were so many off-wire trams! Another one to add the the list is the Luxembourg trams, they are also off-wire and recharge through a 3rd rail in the stops.
Scott Yerkes: The power strip in the ground should be installed on CTA'S street grade level crossings to activate where the 3rd rail is always disconnected creating a huge gap especially for 2 car trains on the Skokie Swift.
@@albertcarello7328 Absolutely. The Skokie Swift was originally overhead wire shortly after leaving Howard St El station. I thought the wires had been removed several years ago and third rail was installed all the way to Skokie?? Of course there is no third rail at road crossings. Thank you for your input
I think if the sections of the network that don’t have wires may well be because they’re downhill and the tram is generating it’s own power so it doesn’t need the wires. Others give an example where trams could replace buses without the investment in wires and potentially rails.
Thank you Timothy for an extremely interesting video! The APS systems at Bordeaux, Dubai and elsewhere are very good but VERY EXPENSIVE to build. I suspect that APS will rarely be used in future. There will be 'in motion charging' (as in Milwaukee or Birmingham England) or 'at stop charging', as on Geneva electric bus route 23 and on trams in at least one Chinese city.
it's not only expensive, it is also properitary system of Alstom, so any city that builds it becomes fully reliant on the company for future vehicles. With batteries getting better and cheaper, it will become more and more economical to use them wherever wires are undesireble for relatively small parts of the system.
Besisides the Reims third rail system (like the Märklin H0 trains... LOL) I never see a real reason to use battery trams. In the US there is plenty of possibillities to use normal wires. But thanks for showing this!
In Wuhan, China there are two completely unconnected tram systems (both for connecting a large town to the end of a metro line) and both are off-wire! One runs with conventional battery, and the other runs with supercapacitors, which is super cool.
Off wire is intriguing and practical in many parts of the world. I believe it to be very expensive... I believe some systems use diesel power or part wire(Boston) part diesel. Thanks Tim for sharing😀
I think they are a great addition to the portfolio of powering solutions for rail. I do think more cities should adopt this tech in busy city centres for example with conventional overhead wires for any lines leading out of it... Or ground-based power for these urban sections using magnetic induction...
there is also two off-wire tram systems in Guangzhou,China. Trams only charge when they are in the station and other parts of the tram systems is off-wire. It's similar to the one in Detroit.
And also in Sydney, Randwick - I'm from Melbourne - and another, can't remember the destination. They run on APS for part of the CBD then switch to overhead.
Because it shares high voltatge 50,ooo volt freightbrailway trackage and they didnt want to use over public street of build dual votalge trams,opting to diesel all the way.
Do the American Trams have dedicated right of way or are they stuck in traffic with cars? Cause it sure seems like they share the road with cars most of the time?
Depends on the city. Most light rail trains that run like trams in the downtown areas run in dedicated lanes. However many American streetcars operate in the same lanes as normal traffic. Some areas they will run in their own lane separate from cars. It's no different than many European tram networks. Amsterdam and Turin are both cities that have trams that run in mixed traffic in some areas and on their own right of ways in other others. Turin recently put out some funny videos trying to educate drivers on why it's a bad idea to block the tram when drivers park to visit a news agent or tobacco shop. That is a rather annoying issue here.
I'd sure like to see ground power on CTA'S ground level L lines at street crossings. I'd like so their L cars could switch between the 3rd rail and ground power on lines that involves street grade crossings. I sure do hope CTA considers that arrangement! Ground power would also prevent L trains from getting stranded in 3rd rail gaps at wide street crossings too!
To alert the passengers that the train is arriving. The light rails (or trams) must ring their bells when entering the station and when going through crossings. Same thing goes with the commuter rail. Commuter rails in the USA must blow their horn and ring their bells when entering the station.
Seattle is strange. They have a wire in one direction. They also have trolley bus wires all over the place including on streets with the Seattle Streetcar. What did they gain by losing a wire?
Not strange. The line runs on the up-hill side, which needs power. The down-hill side uses regenerative braking to make power. There’s also nothing strange about trolley buses. Electric power is the best in hilly terrain. It provides far more torque to go up hills than any ICE engine, and gives you regenerative braking going down hill. That saves the brakes and provides free energy.
If the street car tried to run off overhead wire with double lines meant for trolley buses, you would just have a short circuit as one wire on a trolley bus acts as the "ground". Trams/streetcars don't need the double wire as their steel wheels on steel rails act as the ground. In addition, trolley buses and streetcars don't use the same voltage or frequency so the electrical systems are not compatible.
Extending wired systems, where needed, with batteries (or super capacitors) is the way forward. Like some other commenters, I do not think that the APS system makes economic sense. It is complicated and therefore expensive. I am not even sure that I would trust it, knowing of the failures of the stud contact systems once tried. Apart from that, only 2 gripes about the otherwise nice trams shown :- Windows obscured by graphics on the Dubai trams, and also electronic bells. I don't know if I will ever get to see it, but hopefully, the South Wales Metro will be running battery tram trains in Cardiff in a few years, so that will be a system for one of your future videos.
APS is now quite reliable, after successful solving of some of its problems. But economically - yes, that's quite expensive. But in the systems with a large ridership, such as in Bordeaux its more effective than batteries
It is curious to put together American streetcars moving 500 passengers per km in a day together with French trams moving 5,000 passengers per km. Just sayin'.
cheaper to run on the long run, higher capacity, more efficient, (with equal infrastructure). if you place battery busses on the same roads as car traffic LRT becomes even better.
Take-aways: 1) Embedding power rails in urban streets seems fraught with potential problems. 2) Streetcars with turn signals - when did THAT become a thing?
@@Whitebeard79outOfRus Interesting. Seattle had to tear the tracks out of the Metro Bus Tunnel and reinstall them before fully converting it for light rail use because improper grounding of the running rails (which are used to complete the circuit with the hot wire overhead, the load/motors in the middle, and the neutral/ground below) would eventually degrade the roadbed and cause other problems. How were those problems "solved," specifically? Especially if a stream of dirty water were to flow across the street and the rails embedded therein or a conductive object were to fall across the rails? Until recently, streetcars in America did not have turn signals because we just assumed that they would follow the rails, as trains tend to do. And you guys criticize OUR educational system!
Powered rails aren’t used on urban streets and turn signals have always been used on trams. Just because a tram follows the rails doesn’t mean the drivers around it know which way the rails are heading, and many times rails have switches to multiple directions. I would criticize the educational system that you went to, but I’m thinking your problem is because of your parents raising an asshole.
@@afcgeo882 Like yourself, I actually AM an asshole which in no way invalidates my points. First, this very video clearly shows multiple examples of power rails embedded in urban streets (that super-obvious flat metal strip between the running rails). Second, I have been photo-documenting transit systems in the United States since 1978 and have never encountered a streetcar or LRV with functioning turn signals. Heritage lines like the McKinney Avenue Streetcar certainly don't have them on their historic rolling stock because those units never had turn signals in the first place so your statement that such have "always been used on trams" is both a patently untrue assertion AND a really weird thing to fib about. I'll grant that, due to the demands of other projects since 2014, I haven't had a chance to document the newest and shiniest streetcar & LRT lines in America, which is why I asked that question in my OP. Third, you seem to have gotten SEVERELY butt-hurt from a dumb joke within a reply that wasn't even addressed to you. Good day to you, sir.
Another system worth to mention is the light rail/tram in Kaohsiung, Taiwan. The trams are powered by capacitors and charge by overhead wires in the stations, similar to that in Detroit.
Birmingham (UK) has off wire running for part of the city centre where the wires were deemed too visually intrusive.
That is when we have any trams at all as currently we have no service due to cracks being found in the underbody of the trams!
a system I think that need to be mentioned is the light rail in Rio de Janeiro, 3 lines and 100% on-groud electrified
Yes the VLT system in Rio de Janeiro was just being finished when I was there in 2015. It had helped revive the city centre and port areas that were fairly derelict when I first went in 1996. The area is quite beautiful now.
catenary are not that ugly. we have them in florence and to be honest paved road are way worst looking than a grass tram track with some cable above it.
What about the tram in Newcastle, Australia? The Newcastle Light Rail. runs on battery and charges when it is at a tram stop.
Nice Video, I never knew there were so many off-wire trams! Another one to add the the list is the Luxembourg trams, they are also off-wire and recharge through a 3rd rail in the stops.
The power strip in the ground is really cool!!!
Scott Yerkes: The power strip in the ground should be installed on CTA'S street grade level crossings to activate where the 3rd rail is always disconnected creating a huge gap especially for 2 car trains on the Skokie Swift.
@@albertcarello7328 Absolutely. The Skokie Swift was originally overhead wire shortly after leaving Howard St El station. I thought the wires had been removed several years ago and third rail was installed all the way to Skokie??
Of course there is no third rail at road crossings. Thank you for your input
Charlotte NC's Gold Line streetcar has an off wire section through Uptown
I think if the sections of the network that don’t have wires may well be because they’re downhill and the tram is generating it’s own power so it doesn’t need the wires. Others give an example where trams could replace buses without the investment in wires and potentially rails.
Nice Line T2 features also an impressive battery powered system (with the charge being made at stations by the ground)
Yep, so true and in combination T1 is worth mentioning too
Thank you Timothy for an extremely interesting video! The APS systems at Bordeaux, Dubai and elsewhere are very good but VERY EXPENSIVE to build. I suspect that APS will rarely be used in future. There will be 'in motion charging' (as in Milwaukee or Birmingham England) or 'at stop charging', as on Geneva electric bus route 23 and on trams in at least one Chinese city.
it's not only expensive, it is also properitary system of Alstom, so any city that builds it becomes fully reliant on the company for future vehicles. With batteries getting better and cheaper, it will become more and more economical to use them wherever wires are undesireble for relatively small parts of the system.
Besisides the Reims third rail system (like the Märklin H0 trains... LOL) I never see a real reason to use battery trams. In the US there is plenty of possibillities to use normal wires. But thanks for showing this!
In Wuhan, China there are two completely unconnected tram systems (both for connecting a large town to the end of a metro line) and both are off-wire! One runs with conventional battery, and the other runs with supercapacitors, which is super cool.
In Kaohsiung, Taiwan, We Have off-wire tram systems using Alstom and Caf Tram
Rio de Janeiro has a great 3 lines lightrail off wire systems that you could have mentioned.
Off wire is intriguing and practical in many parts of the world. I believe it to be very expensive... I believe some systems use diesel power or part wire(Boston) part diesel. Thanks Tim for sharing😀
Boston Green Line and High Speed Line are entirely on-wire. The Silver Line is mixed on- and off-wire, but that's a busway.
Boston Green Line and High Speed Line are entirely on-wire. The Silver Line is mixed on- and off-wire, but that's a busway.
Boston Green Line and High Speed Line are entirely on-wire. The Silver Line is mixed on- and off-wire, but that's a busway.
@@andrew_ray Thanks for your input and clarification.😀
I think they are a great addition to the portfolio of powering solutions for rail. I do think more cities should adopt this tech in busy city centres for example with conventional overhead wires for any lines leading out of it... Or ground-based power for these urban sections using magnetic induction...
13:19 From what I know, before tram system opening in 2003 in Bordeaux, there were bi-articulated diesel buses! Or is it? 🤔
I know the one in the thumbnail. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Does anyone know when or if they'll expand this system?
As of right now, they're planning on extending it to Fiserv Forum and towards the Bronzeville Neighborhood, a 0.4 mile loop extension is also planned
@@shanewalters4171 Interesting, thanks!
@@233CFH No worries
Rio De Janeiro has a great ground wire tram line
there is also two off-wire tram systems in Guangzhou,China. Trams only charge when they are in the station and other parts of the tram systems is off-wire. It's similar to the one in Detroit.
There are two off-wire tram systems in Australia, one in the Capital of Australia, Canberra and the other is in the New South Wales City of Newcastle
And also in Sydney, Randwick - I'm from Melbourne - and another, can't remember the destination. They run on APS for part of the CBD then switch to overhead.
@@hawthornvalley it's the George Street line to Circular Quay
I looked at Google maps, in Canberra the trams are connected to the network. Correct me if I am wrong.
New Jersey River Line the only diesel powered off wire car line. Doesn't a similar line in Austin, Texas have some street running?
NJ Transit River Line is entirely Diesel powered - no electricity at any point!
Because it shares high voltatge 50,ooo volt freightbrailway trackage and they didnt want to use over public street of build dual votalge trams,opting to diesel all the way.
Chemnitz, Germany. They switch from wired/electric to diesel and use train racks to get along the countryside.
Do the American Trams have dedicated right of way or are they stuck in traffic with cars? Cause it sure seems like they share the road with cars most of the time?
Depends on the city. Most light rail trains that run like trams in the downtown areas run in dedicated lanes. However many American streetcars operate in the same lanes as normal traffic. Some areas they will run in their own lane separate from cars. It's no different than many European tram networks. Amsterdam and Turin are both cities that have trams that run in mixed traffic in some areas and on their own right of ways in other others. Turin recently put out some funny videos trying to educate drivers on why it's a bad idea to block the tram when drivers park to visit a news agent or tobacco shop. That is a rather annoying issue here.
Is that APS system affected by ice, snow, or flooding ?
Sometimes at the first years but the weather problems were solved
Theoretically, heavy ice would affect it, but the. it would affect everything else too.
The manufacturer of APS system (Alstom) put heating function in the powered rail to solve ice/snow problems
Brilliant video my friend like and Greetings 🤩👌
is it true that this kind of on/off system only require 30% operation time connected on electric ?
All of Manhattan used to have a third rail system for streetcars. Wires outside of Manhattan
Yeah, that system was never reliable.
Sydney Australia is also one of it
Excuse me how could you not include the Luxembourg tram, it's better looking then all of these!!
I'd sure like to see ground power on CTA'S ground level L lines at street crossings. I'd like so their L cars could switch between the 3rd rail and ground power on lines that involves street grade crossings. I sure do hope CTA considers that arrangement! Ground power would also prevent L trains from getting stranded in 3rd rail gaps at wide street crossings too!
A train getting stuck would only ever be a problem with the Skokie Swift, as all other lines with grade crossings use at least 4 car trains (192 ft)
Or… eliminate the grade crossings like every city in the world.
NJ Riverline is Deisal
Definitely
Please made a Video: Metro in Hanoi!
Would love to visit Vietnam again!!!
@@timosha21 It opened since 1 month
Catenary systems need not be very visually intrusive, and I wonder if the hybrid (catenary/battery) trams are worth the extra cost.
Parece que existe somente um sentido nesse sistema... interessante 😮
Hello Klasse video.... 👍👍👍👍👍. Fim 🚂👮♂️✋
Why do the US trams have ridiculously loud bells?
To alert the passengers that the train is arriving. The light rails (or trams) must ring their bells when entering the station and when going through crossings. Same thing goes with the commuter rail. Commuter rails in the USA must blow their horn and ring their bells when entering the station.
Old US regulation for safety of pedestrians.
Because they’re cool.
Newcastle Australia is 100% off-wire. Sydney Australia has partial off-wire.
Seattle is strange. They have a wire in one direction.
They also have trolley bus wires all over the place including on streets with the Seattle Streetcar.
What did they gain by losing a wire?
Not strange. The line runs on the up-hill side, which needs power. The down-hill side uses regenerative braking to make power. There’s also nothing strange about trolley buses. Electric power is the best in hilly terrain. It provides far more torque to go up hills than any ICE engine, and gives you regenerative braking going down hill. That saves the brakes and provides free energy.
If the street car tried to run off overhead wire with double lines meant for trolley buses, you would just have a short circuit as one wire on a trolley bus acts as the "ground". Trams/streetcars don't need the double wire as their steel wheels on steel rails act as the ground. In addition, trolley buses and streetcars don't use the same voltage or frequency so the electrical systems are not compatible.
Extending wired systems, where needed, with batteries (or super capacitors) is the way forward.
Like some other commenters, I do not think that the APS system makes economic sense. It is complicated and therefore expensive. I am not even sure that I would trust it, knowing of the failures of the stud contact systems once tried.
Apart from that, only 2 gripes about the otherwise nice trams shown :- Windows obscured by graphics on the Dubai trams, and also electronic bells.
I don't know if I will ever get to see it, but hopefully, the South Wales Metro will be running battery tram trains in Cardiff in a few years, so that will be a system for one of your future videos.
APS is now quite reliable, after successful solving of some of its problems. But economically - yes, that's quite expensive. But in the systems with a large ridership, such as in Bordeaux its more effective than batteries
The APS works, reliably, in 10 cities across the globe, so that’s not a consideration. Yes, it is expensive.
milwaukee stronk
How odd to say "3,300ft" instead of 1100yds (or even 5 fur)
U forgot Luxembourg city
It is curious to put together American streetcars moving 500 passengers per km in a day together with French trams moving 5,000 passengers per km. Just sayin'.
Not every city in the world is Paris.
With battery buses becoming mainstream, whats now the purpose of light rail?
cheaper to run on the long run, higher capacity, more efficient, (with equal infrastructure). if you place battery busses on the same roads as car traffic LRT becomes even better.
Battery bases are worse in every way.
Take-aways:
1) Embedding power rails in urban streets seems fraught with potential problems.
2) Streetcars with turn signals - when did THAT become a thing?
Those problems with a 3rd rail had already been solved ;)
Streetcars in Europe always had turn signals. Maybe it is news in America...
@@Whitebeard79outOfRus Interesting. Seattle had to tear the tracks out of the Metro Bus Tunnel and reinstall them before fully converting it for light rail use because improper grounding of the running rails (which are used to complete the circuit with the hot wire overhead, the load/motors in the middle, and the neutral/ground below) would eventually degrade the roadbed and cause other problems. How were those problems "solved," specifically? Especially if a stream of dirty water were to flow across the street and the rails embedded therein or a conductive object were to fall across the rails?
Until recently, streetcars in America did not have turn signals because we just assumed that they would follow the rails, as trains tend to do. And you guys criticize OUR educational system!
Powered rails aren’t used on urban streets and turn signals have always been used on trams. Just because a tram follows the rails doesn’t mean the drivers around it know which way the rails are heading, and many times rails have switches to multiple directions.
I would criticize the educational system that you went to, but I’m thinking your problem is because of your parents raising an asshole.
@@afcgeo882 Like yourself, I actually AM an asshole which in no way invalidates my points.
First, this very video clearly shows multiple examples of power rails embedded in urban streets (that super-obvious flat metal strip between the running rails).
Second, I have been photo-documenting transit systems in the United States since 1978 and have never encountered a streetcar or LRV with functioning turn signals. Heritage lines like the McKinney Avenue Streetcar certainly don't have them on their historic rolling stock because those units never had turn signals in the first place so your statement that such have "always been used on trams" is both a patently untrue assertion AND a really weird thing to fib about. I'll grant that, due to the demands of other projects since 2014, I haven't had a chance to document the newest and shiniest streetcar & LRT lines in America, which is why I asked that question in my OP.
Third, you seem to have gotten SEVERELY butt-hurt from a dumb joke within a reply that wasn't even addressed to you.
Good day to you, sir.
🔔🔔🔔🔔🔔🔔🔔🔔🔔🔔🔔🔔🔔🔔
milwaukee calls that diesel thing a tram?🤢💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
The size of the USA streetcars are so small that they look like toys, why?
They’re normal size.
Europe needs bigger trains to create more space between unbathed Frenchmen.
Why do they all make such high-pitched squealing noises?
Hai Timothy In Utrecht driving Buses op line 1 2 3 7&8 Accubuses Type Heuliez line 2 Little Buses Iveco
Зря зря. При дожде может быть юз. Аккумулятор не удержит
Hopefully the trams are more reliable than your spelling!
ouch ;)
New Jersey River Line the only diesel powered off wire car line. Doesn't a similar line in Austin, Texas have some street running?