Factually incorrect, that would invalidate the claim I made and since I am a single brain celled organism I cannot comprehend the possibility of being wrong.
I had a friend play drafdiggers cage against another friends winota deck. He immediately said “well I scoop, I have nothing for that.” I told him that red has a ton of artifact removal but he didn’t have any of it
I watched your removal video a few days ago and immediately started building a new deck focused on winning with near death experience using Oros as my commander to shut out creatures and running tons of those engines and other things to remove non creature permanents to stall to get my combos. Deck is super jank but incredibly fun and interactive with the table it’s awesome. I read the description by the way 👀
I have an Urabrask the hidden deck that I crammed full of big dragons and creatures that deal tons of damage incidentally and added a few deathtouch equipments to make them super spicy. Its a ton of fun to drop down big hasty threat turn after turn that also removes things when it attacks all while my opponents struggle to make blocks since things enter tapped. I really like the Oros the avenger build since it feels like that embodies the same feeling and style that I was going for with my Urabrask deck and sounds really fun to play or even play against for me since I like figuring out how to get out of unique situations. Hmm... I guess more and more people are starting to read these descriptions, thats fine, more people to therefore put in those descriptions haha
I usualy run a low number of removal, but even I agree that there needs to be some removal, and that most players rum too few. Same goes for counterspells and other interactions. The clue is to find that sweetspot
Definitely. Most people dont try to find that sweetspot though, they just cut either removal or lands when it comes time for cuts and it costs them so many fun games because of it
At the heart of this discussion to me is the feeling of needing to remove your opponents stuff in order to have an interactive game. I was introduced to magic around the return to ravnica block, and while your opponent could still drop a 6+ mana bomb or have powerful combos in their deck, I felt like there were still other forms of interaction like a well timed fog or combat trick that could still keep you in a game or even eke out a win. You could still have meaningful interactions that didn't necessitate just not letting your opponent resolve or have something. Nowadays if feels like there are so many cards that basically say "if I resolve/ stay on board I win the game" that removal is pretty much the only viable option left and that feels kind of bad, to me anyway.
Agreed. As a player who runs tons of fogs and combat tricks they help sometimes but it doesnt stop someone from snowballing into 70 mana into exsanguinate. Magic has gotten significantly more snowbally and its no longer an option to stop the snowball after its gotten out of control, you need to just make sure it doesnt happen to begin with because decks have become so powerful at closing these days
Woah, recognition from a big channel. Welcome haha. But yeah I definitely agree. Someone has to corral the table and very few people actually want to be the one to do it
wow i never saw it this way lol. I have a friend that been saying people r not using removal as much and trying to push the non use of removal but then his commander is one of this that you need to remove ASAP or is GG. Last time i did that, removed it and became salty, well that is what removals are for lol.
INCREDIBLY!!! Its crazy because they'll be like "my deck doesnt work", but if you could remove the thing shutting you down or letting your opponent win the game maybe it would lol
It can be frustrating playing with people like that because it feels like the only way they win is if you deliberately dont interact with their gameplan which feels like handing them a pity win. Very hard to navigate
Any tips for a sans green Lurrus as companion deck? So far, it has an easy time doing repeatable removal if Lurrus is around, and it has Argent Dais, however part from that, it is difficult to find removal engines that cost 2 mana or less (or are spells). I do think that another way of addressing removal being card disadvantage is to run more carddraw, as this deck is all cheap stuff, to be able to continue playing cards a lot of card advantage is needed anyway.
I actually have a lurrus deck myself, if you follow my Moxfield link. I have Lurrus as the actual commander instead of the companion but it should still work fine. In that deck I only actually boast 10 pieces of removal since my commander paired with those pieces is a removal engine itself. You still might find value in checking out my budget removal list which also has some cards that fit the restrictions but might not necessarily slot in depending on what exactly the deck is built for. My recommendation would be to make sure that lurrus doesnt get lost, keep Lurrus from getting exiled and use its ability to acrew value turn after turn. Theres plenty of card draw to facilitate that in this deck and especially since you're running even more colors like blue and red, card draw shouldnt be too much of an issue. I'm intending on making on of my next videos talking about card advantage and making sure that decks dont run out of gas because I think theres a few things I can better clarify regarding the card advantage aspect of removal, ramp, getting board wiped, etc. Going back to the main point, I feel that decks like these can run synergistic removal packages since its complimented by the command zone creating a removal engine, so you don't need to include more 1 card removal engines since your companion makes all your removal into engines, just don't get your companion exiled since you can't ever get it back
If you want I might even be able to take a look at the list and we can help make it work right together. I'm not stranger to deckbuilding with restrictions and might be able to help reduce the decks overall budget as well
Thats been my experience. Just had a game where I locked the whole table out with Zacama/Zirda. My general deck building style has been pick a veggy to lean really hard into and reap the benefits that it can give you. If you ramp hard early you can play a much higher curve, if you have tons of removal engines, you can take control of a game and close it at the same time, if you run tons of draw, you'll find whatever combo youre looking for. Extremely simplified version but it tends to work really well for me
Yea I run more budget decks. I’ve build decks with commons and uncommon and load it with removal. But my goal is if a removal engine stays on the battlefield for two turns, it’s a moral victory.
@@ToggoRockthis is a great way to teach deck building because new players learn that strength or weakness of the mechanic and color. Ppl always want to have the perfect deck. Usually the higher priced cards give you the huge effect or a huge jump in value. But not everyone can have a $1000 deck.
I agree. I find budget brewing very liberating and I've made crazy things on a budget like a garth platinum angel deck, building on a budget isnt even that hard anymore, its just fun
Thanks for the video, cool video! I'd say that the amount of "go watch parent video" is a touch on the higher end, but besides that i enjoyed this, no notes
Playing removal engines get to be really powerful in that kind of play group in my experience. You can remove all of their things but they cant remove yours. Kinda punishes them for poor deckbuilding and even when they do add removal these cards are still just really good
1. I did in fact read the description 2. Great video, I agree that alot of people would benefit more from running higher removal numbers or at least more removal engines. Most of my favorite decks have 15-25 removal pieces and I feel like I always have some impact on the game. 3. A common thought I have encountered is that people don't want to clog their hands with a bunch of removal and run out of gas, have you considered making a video about card advantage or how to consider card advantage more in deck buidling?
I actually thought a lot about that in the production of this video and was considering making it one of the next topics I discuss. I'll probably talk about how to make sure your deck can always do something in an endgame grindfest scenario and not run out of gas
Card is criminally underrated. It's one of the best ways to remove cards that your colors struggle with. It just needs a slight political nudge to turn into a powerhouse.
And it works great in so many strategies, too. Artifact decks have inherent synergy with it, aggro decks like evasive threats that can keep life totals low, control decks like evasive threats that can stabilize the board, midrange decks like the value you can get from repeatedly popping stuff... I can go on. People are seriously sleeping, lmao.
For sure, I just helped a Balan deck with trying to fix their deck and saw this in there and smiled. Even flying has just small synergies like that its crazy
Do you feel the need to have a full on staxed board to stop your opponent from popping off with something like a Jin-Gitaxias? Jetmir? Korvold? The format has increasingly devolved into a kill on sight or lose the game play pattern from most decks so removal is a necessity. Removal doesnt equal stax. Removal equals stopping your opponents from winning just because their deck is faster
Arguable. I believe there to be a difference but it my just be arguing semantics since we come from difference perspectives and backgrounds and have different views on removals place in the format
i read the description. You whine a lot in it. Says a lot about you already. In my local play group most everyone runs a little removal just to deal with massive threats. But the reason people don't run a lot of it is we don't want to stall a game and drag it out. Also we are all there to play magic. Why waste everyone's evening by removing the chance for them to play magic. That's a community killer. Yall also seem to forget attacking is a great way to force a player to choose to remove their creature from the board, or take damage. There is a bunch of work arounds to remove stuff. If you're playing in a competitive environment that's a total different situation and fully understandable. But if you're playing in a casual pod. Maybe go do something with your life to boost your ego. Every person that runs a lot of removal often finds themselves sitting alone since no one wants to watch a person play solitaire. Just play with yourself at home. Personally my decks have alot of redundancy and different combo options. If you hit something of mine its a oh no, what ever will i do. Then hard target you with all the other things i can pop off.
Hey, while I do agree with a few of the points you made here( particularly the points of redundancy and workarounds to straight up removal) the insults aren’t necessary. I personally appreciate this guy taking the time to go through the dynamics commander and why one shouldn’t necessarily feel bad for putting more removal in their decks rather than just saying "run more removal" and ending the conversation there. Also, as a majority of the comments here suggests, it seems like the people running tons of removal would all be happy playing magic with each other, so maybe let’s not just assume everyone enjoys playing the game in the exact same way we do.
If you didnt like it so much, why bother leaving a comment and stirring the pot? If you'd like the have a debate thats one thing but slander is another and its highly unappreciated. You can play the game however you'd like, but making overgeneralizations, and insulting other players of the game is disrespectful and inappropriate behavior. Not the mention the several logical fallacies litered within your argument such as hasty generalization, ad hominem, etc.
Read the description gang checking in
Factually incorrect, that would invalidate the claim I made and since I am a single brain celled organism I cannot comprehend the possibility of being wrong.
@ Read the description gang phasing out of existence
Passed the vibe check🫡
slowly but surely I'm finding the edh 'tubers that make some sense. easy sub
I take that as a high compliment, thank you
I had a friend play drafdiggers cage against another friends winota deck. He immediately said “well I scoop, I have nothing for that.” I told him that red has a ton of artifact removal but he didn’t have any of it
That's actually crazy. Also they could just wait around and if that player dies, so does the stax piece 😂
I watched your removal video a few days ago and immediately started building a new deck focused on winning with near death experience using Oros as my commander to shut out creatures and running tons of those engines and other things to remove non creature permanents to stall to get my combos. Deck is super jank but incredibly fun and interactive with the table it’s awesome. I read the description by the way 👀
I have an Urabrask the hidden deck that I crammed full of big dragons and creatures that deal tons of damage incidentally and added a few deathtouch equipments to make them super spicy. Its a ton of fun to drop down big hasty threat turn after turn that also removes things when it attacks all while my opponents struggle to make blocks since things enter tapped. I really like the Oros the avenger build since it feels like that embodies the same feeling and style that I was going for with my Urabrask deck and sounds really fun to play or even play against for me since I like figuring out how to get out of unique situations.
Hmm... I guess more and more people are starting to read these descriptions, thats fine, more people to therefore put in those descriptions haha
I usualy run a low number of removal, but even I agree that there needs to be some removal, and that most players rum too few. Same goes for counterspells and other interactions. The clue is to find that sweetspot
players count on others removal too much then lose games on turn 8 when all they needed was a 2 mana spell
EXACTLY! Everyone wants it but no one wants to be the one to run it and it comes back and bites all of them
Definitely. Most people dont try to find that sweetspot though, they just cut either removal or lands when it comes time for cuts and it costs them so many fun games because of it
At the heart of this discussion to me is the feeling of needing to remove your opponents stuff in order to have an interactive game. I was introduced to magic around the return to ravnica block, and while your opponent could still drop a 6+ mana bomb or have powerful combos in their deck, I felt like there were still other forms of interaction like a well timed fog or combat trick that could still keep you in a game or even eke out a win. You could still have meaningful interactions that didn't necessitate just not letting your opponent resolve or have something. Nowadays if feels like there are so many cards that basically say "if I resolve/ stay on board I win the game" that removal is pretty much the only viable option left and that feels kind of bad, to me anyway.
Agreed. As a player who runs tons of fogs and combat tricks they help sometimes but it doesnt stop someone from snowballing into 70 mana into exsanguinate. Magic has gotten significantly more snowbally and its no longer an option to stop the snowball after its gotten out of control, you need to just make sure it doesnt happen to begin with because decks have become so powerful at closing these days
this is why i play sheriff in every game. play more removal people!
Woah, recognition from a big channel. Welcome haha. But yeah I definitely agree. Someone has to corral the table and very few people actually want to be the one to do it
Ngl the lack of removal is incredibly noticeable among players who tend to be most salty, I wonder if they relate in some way some how.
wow i never saw it this way lol. I have a friend that been saying people r not using removal as much and trying to push the non use of removal but then his commander is one of this that you need to remove ASAP or is GG. Last time i did that, removed it and became salty, well that is what removals are for lol.
INCREDIBLY!!! Its crazy because they'll be like "my deck doesnt work", but if you could remove the thing shutting you down or letting your opponent win the game maybe it would lol
It can be frustrating playing with people like that because it feels like the only way they win is if you deliberately dont interact with their gameplan which feels like handing them a pity win. Very hard to navigate
very good video, thanks alot!
Thank you for your support. I'm just trying my best
Any tips for a sans green Lurrus as companion deck?
So far, it has an easy time doing repeatable removal if Lurrus is around, and it has Argent Dais, however part from that, it is difficult to find removal engines that cost 2 mana or less (or are spells).
I do think that another way of addressing removal being card disadvantage is to run more carddraw, as this deck is all cheap stuff, to be able to continue playing cards a lot of card advantage is needed anyway.
I actually have a lurrus deck myself, if you follow my Moxfield link. I have Lurrus as the actual commander instead of the companion but it should still work fine. In that deck I only actually boast 10 pieces of removal since my commander paired with those pieces is a removal engine itself. You still might find value in checking out my budget removal list which also has some cards that fit the restrictions but might not necessarily slot in depending on what exactly the deck is built for. My recommendation would be to make sure that lurrus doesnt get lost, keep Lurrus from getting exiled and use its ability to acrew value turn after turn. Theres plenty of card draw to facilitate that in this deck and especially since you're running even more colors like blue and red, card draw shouldnt be too much of an issue. I'm intending on making on of my next videos talking about card advantage and making sure that decks dont run out of gas because I think theres a few things I can better clarify regarding the card advantage aspect of removal, ramp, getting board wiped, etc. Going back to the main point, I feel that decks like these can run synergistic removal packages since its complimented by the command zone creating a removal engine, so you don't need to include more 1 card removal engines since your companion makes all your removal into engines, just don't get your companion exiled since you can't ever get it back
If you want I might even be able to take a look at the list and we can help make it work right together. I'm not stranger to deckbuilding with restrictions and might be able to help reduce the decks overall budget as well
Immediate subscribe. As a person who runs ONLY $30decks, removal and removal engines are KEY.
Thats been my experience. Just had a game where I locked the whole table out with Zacama/Zirda. My general deck building style has been pick a veggy to lean really hard into and reap the benefits that it can give you. If you ramp hard early you can play a much higher curve, if you have tons of removal engines, you can take control of a game and close it at the same time, if you run tons of draw, you'll find whatever combo youre looking for. Extremely simplified version but it tends to work really well for me
Yea I run more budget decks. I’ve build decks with commons and uncommon and load it with removal. But my goal is if a removal engine stays on the battlefield for two turns, it’s a moral victory.
@@ToggoRockthis is a great way to teach deck building because new players learn that strength or weakness of the mechanic and color. Ppl always want to have the perfect deck. Usually the higher priced cards give you the huge effect or a huge jump in value. But not everyone can have a $1000 deck.
I agree. I find budget brewing very liberating and I've made crazy things on a budget like a garth platinum angel deck, building on a budget isnt even that hard anymore, its just fun
Thanks for the video, cool video!
I'd say that the amount of "go watch parent video" is a touch on the higher end, but besides that i enjoyed this, no notes
Yeah, I was wondering that just a hair as I was compiling the video altogether, I'll definitely try and cut back in the future lol
All I am surrounded by is players with no removal/interaction and its about to be all of your problem!
Playing removal engines get to be really powerful in that kind of play group in my experience. You can remove all of their things but they cant remove yours. Kinda punishes them for poor deckbuilding and even when they do add removal these cards are still just really good
Removal as veggies 🤔
I’m a vegan... sorry, Im a Vren the relentless enjoyer
I respect the hustle
1. I did in fact read the description
2. Great video, I agree that alot of people would benefit more from running higher removal numbers or at least more removal engines. Most of my favorite decks have 15-25 removal pieces and I feel like I always have some impact on the game.
3. A common thought I have encountered is that people don't want to clog their hands with a bunch of removal and run out of gas, have you considered making a video about card advantage or how to consider card advantage more in deck buidling?
I actually thought a lot about that in the production of this video and was considering making it one of the next topics I discuss. I'll probably talk about how to make sure your deck can always do something in an endgame grindfest scenario and not run out of gas
Bladegriff Prototype, my beloved!
Card is criminally underrated. It's one of the best ways to remove cards that your colors struggle with. It just needs a slight political nudge to turn into a powerhouse.
This cards goated. People beg me to punch them in the face just so they can get to kill something. It gets even funnier when I throw in combat tricks
Agreed. I view politics and player psychology as a significant contributor in commander game outcomes and this card definitely rewards that
And it works great in so many strategies, too. Artifact decks have inherent synergy with it, aggro decks like evasive threats that can keep life totals low, control decks like evasive threats that can stabilize the board, midrange decks like the value you can get from repeatedly popping stuff... I can go on.
People are seriously sleeping, lmao.
For sure, I just helped a Balan deck with trying to fix their deck and saw this in there and smiled. Even flying has just small synergies like that its crazy
Might as well play stax
Do you feel the need to have a full on staxed board to stop your opponent from popping off with something like a Jin-Gitaxias? Jetmir? Korvold? The format has increasingly devolved into a kill on sight or lose the game play pattern from most decks so removal is a necessity. Removal doesnt equal stax. Removal equals stopping your opponents from winning just because their deck is faster
@ToggoRock I mean might as well, if the strategy is to just kill everything that hits the board playing stax is just cutting out the middleman.
Land destruction works as well
Arguable. I believe there to be a difference but it my just be arguing semantics since we come from difference perspectives and backgrounds and have different views on removals place in the format
i read the description. You whine a lot in it. Says a lot about you already. In my local play group most everyone runs a little removal just to deal with massive threats. But the reason people don't run a lot of it is we don't want to stall a game and drag it out. Also we are all there to play magic. Why waste everyone's evening by removing the chance for them to play magic. That's a community killer. Yall also seem to forget attacking is a great way to force a player to choose to remove their creature from the board, or take damage. There is a bunch of work arounds to remove stuff. If you're playing in a competitive environment that's a total different situation and fully understandable. But if you're playing in a casual pod. Maybe go do something with your life to boost your ego. Every person that runs a lot of removal often finds themselves sitting alone since no one wants to watch a person play solitaire. Just play with yourself at home. Personally my decks have alot of redundancy and different combo options. If you hit something of mine its a oh no, what ever will i do. Then hard target you with all the other things i can pop off.
Hey, while I do agree with a few of the points you made here( particularly the points of redundancy and workarounds to straight up removal) the insults aren’t necessary. I personally appreciate this guy taking the time to go through the dynamics commander and why one shouldn’t necessarily feel bad for putting more removal in their decks rather than just saying "run more removal" and ending the conversation there. Also, as a majority of the comments here suggests, it seems like the people running tons of removal would all be happy playing magic with each other, so maybe let’s not just assume everyone enjoys playing the game in the exact same way we do.
If you didnt like it so much, why bother leaving a comment and stirring the pot? If you'd like the have a debate thats one thing but slander is another and its highly unappreciated. You can play the game however you'd like, but making overgeneralizations, and insulting other players of the game is disrespectful and inappropriate behavior. Not the mention the several logical fallacies litered within your argument such as hasty generalization, ad hominem, etc.