Відео

I actually thought a lot about that in the production of this video and was considering making it one of the next topics I discuss. I'll probably talk about how to make sure your deck can always do something in an endgame grindfest scenario and not run out of gas

Unfortunately that can be a negative side effect, however I would also argue that that's probably because you've won those games which would mean that the advice itself works. I'm not exactly sure what to do once your friends are already at that point other than just let the cardboard speak for itself but I think that you might benefit from my other video talking about flying under the radar since you have a weaker card pool to choose from. I'm exclusively a $25 budget player so I'm no stranger to running weak cards and still finding wins so maybe the advice there might help with deck construction

Dude!!! I've literally built the exact same thing. Even though edhrec doesnt show zirda as a companion at all for some reason. Mine was a lot more based around giving zacama protection from as many colors as I could while controlling the board and gaining tons of life since when I built it Zacama was $13 it took up over half of my $25 budget for the deck. I should probably rebuild it now that he's been reprinted lol

Why is that?

Just remember we play the game to do our things and if we dont do our things we're having less fun. I'm not going to tell you to run more if you prefer less, just recognize the opportunity cost of the fun that youre missing out on

So since this question is multifold I'll do my best to address everything as best as I can. To start with the question regarding if Thantis gets removed the deck can function via fogging to keep myself alive until I can hopefully get her back out. If she's completely off the table then I'll try and continue fighting for second place and then use act of treason effects to take my opponents big haymaker threat and combat trick it through their board. Generally though Thantis doesnt get hated out since comparitively its underwhelming. Most times my opponents will play much better value pieces or game threatening spells that need to be dealt with that take pressure off me. When 3 people are all fighting to outmidrange each other suddenly a 5/5 spider doesnt seem that scary. Also there doesnt really seem to be as much requirement to kill Thantis to let a utility creature through since mana dorks can just tap themselves and if they really need to let something live I'll either politic with them to swing it at me to grow Thantis or they'll use their removal on their opponents blockers since its generally a 2 in 1 type thing where they remove a strong value piece and blocker. Theres also very seldomly many blockers period since everything that can tap has to be by end step since she forces combat so most times SOMEBODY is open to swing it. Its probably my most metagamey deck where it very heavily exploits threat assessment and commander players ambitions. Since slots are tight thats generally why I dont run protection spells anymore. I used to but I felt like this was a much more exciting deckbuilding endeavor to achieve where I dont neccissarily need one to begin with. As far as card choices like the aforementioned I'm deciding not to run them because for one reason or another they dont make the cut. They can get blocked which is kinda annoying since they're small, yeah they have deathtouch but theres tons of things that get around it like first strike, double strike, indestructible, etc. While its not likely that all my opponents are going to have these at the same time I'd also like to mitigate board wipe loss. This deck is fine with board wipes going off since it doesnt commit too hard to the board and oakhame adversary and azra oddsmaker changes that a little bit. They also dont get value as soon as they enter and while thats also true for something like hansk or elder brain, they give such a monumental amount of card advantage that they earn their slots. If theres any more questions I'd be happy to respond and I apologize for any confusion this admittedly long winded response may have incited.

Its so cool!!! I love that the entire table is on board with it when it hits the board. Everybody loves it

I've tried pauper commander and I find the card pool too restricting. I play pauper or commander but personally didnt like much pdh

Thanks. Unfortunately it didnt get much traction

@ToggoRock Give it time you definitely deserve more views

Thanks man, genuinely means a lot

This sums up how I play almost exactly. I've got some people that play with me that counter with "its better to force him to have it/use it" to which I reply "I can use it, but on [insert scary thing] instead" that way its win-win. It really is engaging and fun to just basically play other peoples decks and calling out possible cards they could be holding up. This comment basically sums up everything I was trying to get across lol

Thank you! That means a lot

Yeah, its like why are we even playing a multiplayer casual format lol

That makes 2 lol

I actually built a erinis/street urchin deck for a mtg league I was participating in. I built into landfall theme with field of the dead and it was extremely effective. Really good for making sure no one has blockers or really anything threatening while you build up a boardstate that rocks them. Another removal engine in the command zone that my friend built was falthis/jeska thrice reborned with obosh as a companion. It was such a cool deck because it can switch from downticking jeska and wiping out a bunch of creatures to 0 ticking with obosh in play and like 1 voltron piece to have a menacing 4/2 that does double and triple damage and you hardly had enough blockers up because the deck ran lots of removal even outside of jeska

Debatable. Some people may find it unfun to play against but I generally like facing them because it leads to dynamic gameplay. Maybe we remove it and it gets no value, or maybe someone heroic interventions to get the kill, if the lock is strong itll create an archenemy situation and may have everyone banding together to try and kill that player. Theres many weaknesses to cards or synergies like this, and I like that they put me in a situation where I need to think out of the box to solve it. Sometimes I need to use my combat tricks on someone elses creature to get in for the kill, I may not normally get a forced play pattern like that otherwise

I actually had an idea for this exact deck but never actually built it because of the fact that the choice is given to the turn player and I foresee very few interactions in which a traditional deck would like to end the turn early

​@@ToggoRockyeah the applications on an opponents turn are limited to negating combat tricks The deck is aiming to work mostly without obeka where it can but then take advantage of her when I'm ready to push to win. For example, early game a hunted horror is still great value, 2 mana 7/7 and one of the three opponents gets two 3/3s. Late game, as long as that's my final turn action, it's just a 2 mana 7/7 for me with obeka. Lethal vapors, early game is an interesting political piece, pushing a difficult choice onto the board and also protecting me a bit from being hated out the game. Late game, its one sided as i cancel the trigger again with obeka until someone skips a turn and falls quite far behind because of it. I don't think it'll be a particularly good deck haha, but it'll hopefully make for socially engaging games with people making decisions and deals etc. having those assassin cards you talked about will 100% add some more to this, the bargaining power associated with them will be a great add

I'm very interested in this concept and would love for you to share the deck with me once you've actually built it so I can take a look. Glad to hear the assassins might help as well

That actually made a lot of sense. I'm actually planning on making a video about this exact thing where removal actually fosters engaging and dynamic games. Since I'm a budget player too I can talk about how normally you can't speed up your deck faster than the optimized budgetless counterpart so your best bet is to take out their budgetless pieces. Whether your card is $0.30 or $30, all cards are equal if they are removed from impacting the game

This sounds a lot like that lgs that actually has like an essay of banned cards and architypes, really funny.

I'm with you. I reckon the entire combat phase should just be removed. And why have Elixir in the command zone when we could just remove the graveyard and put all the spells we've cast back on the bottom our library instead? Casual is the only way forward ✊️

Haha very funny

Ah, but I am the hot guy at the LGS. I am the -1/-1 counter to your +1/+1 counter; we cancel each other out 🍻

Bro is onto something

Thank you!!

These all sound very fun to play for my playstyle lol. I'm a big fan of giving things like toggo or inferno titan deathtouch and just holding a lock on the game until it can be dealt with. Either that or just board wiping every turn, thats what my shigeki deck is trying to do right now. Its a ton of fun imo

Like dang the thumbnails looks exactly the same

Theres 4 main channels that I derive my inspirarion from: Salubrious Snail, The Trinket Mage, 3/3 Elk, and you got it Deck Driver. I've been playing a while and felt that rather than meeting these people via patreon or anything like that I'd rather just start my own channel and throw my hat in the ring so if we ever meet it'll be as equals

I dont mean go plagiarize, like i dont know if any of them have anything in common with my video, I just made it from scratch intuitively from everything ive noticed. I figured the pilot token best represents the spirit of the episode

It never led to any games in which other people were having fun. It was a little too extreme so I stopped playing it in favor of other decks

Agreed. Theres a few people I've played with that make me think of this every time I play with them

Agreed. Each removal type has its place and I agree that there is a lot of value in instant speed removal. This video was hoping to bring to light the possibility of removal engines in ones deck. However a small counterargument to instant speed removal is that generally its single target and at least in my meta theres hardly ever just 1 thing I want to remove because nearly every card played is a haymaker synergy piece. Sure I could take out 1 thing but I'll lose in tempo to my opponents who can play more threats than I can remove especially since theres 3 of them and only 1 of me. But yes I definitely acknowledge the mana positive ratios that single target removal can net, for me it would just have to be at least 3x the mana I spent on my removal to be worth in tempo

Very true, nice find

Hopefully 😁

So true lol. It's only been up for 2 minutes

Since I'm a $25 budget player my card quality is less than that of my opponents, 1 way to counteract this imbalance is to play removal and bring the table to your level. Since I can only go up so far, the alternative is to bring them down, if you feel that it would lead to a negative play experience then by all means optimize for fun. I acknowledge I tend to play on the higher end of the spectrum, that doesnt mean you can't take lessons from my video and play more removal engines however.

@ToggoRock A 25 dollar budget versus high power puts this video in a WHOLE other light! I can only imagine this as one of the few viable strategies to face against the full extent of varying power levels and costs. Apologies for any possible insult, this method of play just strikes the absolute fear of God in me lol, but I would now definitely frame this video as "How to Handle High Power on a Budget" personally.

Understandable, no offense taken. I try not to stress too much repeatedly since this is my own journey, I just try to teach lessons I've learned as if they work well for me, odds are they can work even better for the unrestricted, and while I'm not necessarily saying run 20 pieces of removal because I admit that thats a high number comparitively, I was mostly trying to stress the value of repeatable removal

Thats interesting. I'm guessing the deck just wheels and deals a lot with psychosis crawler effects to drain the table?

@ no it’s really budget! It’s basically a bunch of decent rate draw spells like quick study and rain of revelation with a package of creatures that draw cards on etb. To win there’s effects that say: whenever you gain life, each opponent loses one life. It’s got some pillow fort effects too

That's interesting. I'm curious to see how that works in play haha

@@ToggoRock Lmao its perfect for medium power pods, doesn't feel too mean and stays under the radar as a threat. I'm predicting I'll be one of the last two alive most games and then either get one of my big draw engines or die.

I definitely appreciate the "staying under the radar" playstyle. As explained in my other video that's what my Thantis deck is all about. Fighting for second place to take on the 1v1 against the final player

Yes exactly!! Thats been my observation as well

As you can tell by later in the video.I was arguing for a well balanced removal suite. I'd also like to point out that this is just the classic "it dies to removal" argument which is a nonargument since nearly everything dies to removal, its a matter of if your opponents have the removal, decide to spend the mana to cast it, and target your things with it. If you dont think this would work as well in your mets you can run a fewer number like 1 or 2 and it would probably do better for you to run synergistic removal engines tailored for your strategy rather than my over costed high investment single card removal engines.

What turn do your games generally end? I'd recommend more synergy specific removal engines if your games end early, what decks do you tend to play?

Very true, thanks.

Very true, muldrotha and Tasigur are really great for those but are weak to graveyard hate. I have a lurrus deck that plays very similar

If you check my removal engine list you might find some more ones in there that may fit well. Off the top of my head I can think of Kogla, Scion of calamity, and Ulvenwald tracker

What makes you say that?

I agree! It sounds like his deck-building style promotes fun and dynamic gameplay that helps his opponents identify weak spots in their decks and improve them. I’ve played with many playgroups, and the playgroup I have the most fun with also tends to run the most interaction and removal in their decks. None of the decks are stax decks or CEDH decks.

Haha thanks, I've seen a lot of people equate my removal engines to stax but I'd say that considering the mana investment and slow rate its more than fair, just a more fun way to play it since it theoretically allows me to play my removal more than the 1 time

Honestly, I love this kind of creativity. Any player can net deck a stax cedh list, but it takes care and thought to elevate removal beyond "You need more interaction, have a path and a swords". This is some cool stuff, and I'm definitely gonna use it in my decks

I take that as such a high compliment, thank you

???

@@ToggoRock You sound like Blooprint and i just recently found out he plays MTG. Good videos btw!

Haha, I understand now. While I assure you that I am not him its interesting to be compared like that haha

Would this not be one of the most effective methods for discussing such topics while showcasing cards that would allow newer players to become familiarized with and veteran players to gloss over? I understand this is meant as an insult but I fail to understand the argument presented. Would you mind elaborating?

Great cards, I play butcher of malakir when I have the right deck for it but I'm also a $25 budget player so I don't get to run higher cost cards like such

@@ToggoRock I also play Butcher of Malakir and karmic justice. It's really fun and synergistic when you can build it into your deck. I bought a dictate of erebos when it was $7 and pulled a grave pact from a pack. I guess I got pretty lucky. I have such a large collection, that I trade in valuable cards from store credit to get what I need

Fair enough, what kinds of decks do you usually put them in? Just generic aristrat decks or some other spicy tech?

@@ToggoRock aristocrats but also in decks where I utilize tokens, I have a jarad golgari lichlord deck that uses Yargle and multani to drain my opponents life and I like to use grave pact and dictate of erebos in there to splash removal. Basically the whole deck revolves around sacking big creatures for value. Outside of tokens and Jarad I don't run dictate or pact. I also have a supercharged Wilhelt control deck that makes dictate and pact Insane to deal with since decaying tokens die really easily Karmatic justice is fun to pair with Eriette since my auras are enchanting my opponents creatures, whenever my opponents board wipe I get to basically destroy their lands or a bunch of threats I don't run Malakir as much these days because it's so expensive to cast, but I do have a copy in Jarad just in case.

Sounds like you've already been doing the whole removal engine thing haha

It's genuinely so much fun. It looks underwhelming on paper but in practice its great

Great find! Death match looks really cool but its symmetrical so very niche. Might need like a Sarynth deck to give your board hexproof since asceticism may not be guarenteed

I take inspiration from the magic mirror trio and have started this channel with them as a goal in mind haha

@ToggoRock I knew it hahaha, nice vid

Haha thanks man, I'm tryin

Is that because you don't like your things getting removed or your friends dont like their things removed?

I swear commander players just hate playing the game.

@@ToggoRock My friends don't. I play plenty of removal in my decks, but I also have the self-awareness to know that it doesn't make for the most enjoyable experience and that commander, being the casual format it is, is more about enjoying quality time with friends. The stax is what I tend to stay away from. It's not a fun experience to slog the game down, especially when we're all adults with busy lives and limited time to actually sit down and play the game. Stax is just disrespectful on a meta level (not metagame, but meta as in outside the scope of the game).

@@ezraho8449 You can have a full and complete game with four people and four decks having little to no stax. "The game" doesn't necessitate that. I have many decks that manage to win and be fun. It's like saying that a game of commander isn't valid because no decks with blue are at the table. It's silly. The best part of commander being a casual format is that you can tailor the experience to make it fun. The idea that every card that exists in the game is conducive to a fun experience is simply and objectively false.

@@Cybertech134 there’s a difference between stax and recurring removal. Removal is important to the game not only because it keeps the game interactive but it also prevents different strategies from becoming too strong. Plus most of the stuff mentioned in the video is pretty mana expensive and is very limited in quantity so it isn’t like you can fill your entire deck with these cards. One well placed removal spell or counterspell and no more removal. There’s also a lot of irony in you telling other people how to have fun since your entire point hinges on everyone in the group deciding on what is fun for them.

That makes sense. It's definitely pod dependent, however its tended to work out for me if I can get them out early enough. I run tons of lands and ramp so I can generally get to 7 mana on turn 4 to throw these guys out. Not to mention generally the other people in my pod play bigger and scarier things that require removal so if I time things right and politic properly very little removal actually comes my way, but once again very pod and player dependent. These are just a really nice alternative that have allowed me to have a lot of fun playing removal lately

That is very much not my experience lol

Whats your meta like?

If the goal of your deck is "others can't play the game" which recurring removal and stax is. Then obviously others are going to remove you from the equation, as they should.

@ToggoRock my meta is mixed, but i usually play at fairy competitive tables--around an 8/10.

Very true, removal can literally be so fun but I see why so many people don't like it, if all you have is just best within effects you really aren't doing anything fun, its just bland generic necessity at that point

Incredibly, it can give summoning sickness, make windows for attacks, remove +1/+1 counters, so many small things that aren't considered

Shhhh, no you didn't

Thank you!!!

Thanks!