No Nerfs To Bison And Akuma? And Is Zangief Back To Bottom Tier?

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  • Опубліковано 19 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 97

  • @baldbishop1667
    @baldbishop1667 Місяць тому +25

    A lot of people are calling this the japan patch. Because ed is extremely popular in Japan and Zangief is hated.

    • @SomniaCE
      @SomniaCE Місяць тому +1

      Ed is the big outlier to me because that dude was already top tier so for him to get buffed in any way just feels so bizarre.

    • @dhayris160
      @dhayris160 Місяць тому +1

      On the East Coast, I fight Ed every third match.

    • @baldbishop1667
      @baldbishop1667 Місяць тому

      @SomniaCE Yeah, he is strong, I feel like he is going the rashid route, at first, very few jumped at him, but eventually, people are realizing the strength of the character to the point where the complains are starting to pop out. Capcom is like, he is broken, but the AA are not good, so it is justified.

  • @slugbones
    @slugbones Місяць тому +15

    I have no idea how anyone can look at Rashid and Zangief and think Zangief is the one who needs the nerfs

    • @666slateran666
      @666slateran666 Місяць тому +3

      It's simple, Capcom HATES grapplers with a passion

    • @dragonic22
      @dragonic22 Місяць тому

      I dunno, it kinda makes some sense. Nobody plays Rashid, meanwhile everyone plays Zangief.

  • @nikoamiko
    @nikoamiko Місяць тому +8

    They just need to start including a HOW TO BEAT GRAPPLERS tutorial in every game

    • @kuaikukia
      @kuaikukia Місяць тому

      Bet on Capcom department, either they're too good on playing grappler or so incompetent to deal with grappler and need shoto or top tier char to be buffed

    • @verbatim7508
      @verbatim7508 Місяць тому

      Let's say I make it so I tighten up all my blockstrings so there's no 5 frame gaps. Zangief will never be able to SPD in the middle of my blockstrings, as James says, and if he tries he'll just get frame trapped and blown up. Here's the thing:
      How, as Chun-Li, am I supposed to END such a blockstring in a way that 1.) I'm not spending meter, and 2.) won't make me minus at SPD range? Every meterless option leaves me minus in his face, or worse, punishable.
      The only thing I really have are well-spaced Kikokens, but in order to space them properly, I need a DRC lead-in. I need a blocked 2MK or 4/6MP, Drive Rush canceled into 5MP, then 4HP, then stance LK, and then I cancel that into a Kikoken-if I do this, I will be safe, but spending 3 bars just for a Zangief to block all my attacks, but at least he isn't plus in my face, is a TERRIBLE tradeoff honestly. NOT TO MENTION, this blockstring is extremely vulnerable to perfect parries because the rhythm of the attacks is so rigid and easy to memorize.

    • @dragonic22
      @dragonic22 Місяць тому

      @@verbatim7508 You could try reading the SPD and jump

    • @verbatim7508
      @verbatim7508 Місяць тому

      @@dragonic22 Guess for my life, wow what a great solution. That's definitely not gonna get me killed, because as we all know, jumps are strike invincible

    • @dragonic22
      @dragonic22 Місяць тому

      @@verbatim7508 I'm talking about these 5 frame gaps in your blockstrings. You say you usually have to spend meter to stay safe from SPD. But you can also jump. Or backdash

  • @littleakibagames
    @littleakibagames Місяць тому +17

    Looks like another three months at least of being Schrodinger's Honda, simultaneously one of the worst characters in the game and somehow "OP."

    • @SomniaCE
      @SomniaCE Місяць тому +2

      It is the ultimate downside of playing anything in a game that is deemed a "scrub killer". Your thing is so successful against bad players - aka the majority - that the concensus and narrative online is that your thing sucks and you suck for playing it. But at high level your thing is mediocre at best. The developers can't just buff the thing to be high level viable because then the bad players already annoyed will get completely shit on but you can't nerf the thing in many ways for the sake of those bad players having a better time without almost killing the thing outright.
      Everyone can relate whether its a moba, a fighting game or even class shooters like The Finals or Overwatch.

    • @han3wmanwukong125
      @han3wmanwukong125 Місяць тому +2

      Lol... pretty much. Anti sumo bigotry is real. Literally the basic dynamic of the game is his enemy.
      Even the stupid d. Rev being throwback on block as a punish buffs Gief, Lily and Manon due to their 5 frame command grab. But Honda? Nooooooo... he got a 7 frame command grab. Not 6 frame...7.

    • @666slateran666
      @666slateran666 Місяць тому

      Hes just bad now

  • @7thsaga662
    @7thsaga662 Місяць тому +2

    Dope video, James.
    On a sidenote: The Switch version of Marvel Vs Capcom Fighting Collection just got the Juggernaut tag patch yesterday. Which also fixes the slanted score screen, and I think it fixes the Sentinel sound effects.

  • @EAprima
    @EAprima Місяць тому +4

    I'm glad we're generally on the same page, James. Thank you for calling out this patch for what it is, unlike other UA-camrs who are afraid to tell the truth. This balance patch showed that Capcom tripled down on the top-tier characters they like, further separating them from the lower-tier cast. It's annoying because Luke, Deejay, and JP didn't need the adjustments they were given, especially over characters that have a much higher priority for change. Capcom's rationale also sounded inexcusable because if what they said was true, they should have buffed and given new tools to the lower-tier characters such as Lily, E. Honda, Manon, and Ryu to make them more relevant at the level of the top tiers. It just doesn't make sense.
    The nerfing of Zangief was completely unjustified (to heck with people's petty feelings for wanting Gief nerfed because they don't know how to handle grappler which causes them to always skate backwards in a fight) as he wasn't on the same tier as A+-tier Luke, let alone the same S-tier as the completely broken Rashid, a character that badly needs to be nerfed (maybe due to Saudi money?). I feel sorry for Zangief players as it seems like they have been treated unfairly. This wouldn't have been the case if Capcom had buffed Zangief in another area as compensation. The only character that benefited from this patch was Dhalsim, who received some welcome changes for improvement. I am hoping that these changes will bring back old Dhalsim players to the game.
    It's very interesting looking at those monthly ranking stats for they strongly communicate that Classic and Modern controls are practically two different games that Capcom pigeonhold themselves into. I knew that would happen the moment they introduced modern controls, and those monthly charts proved it to be an issue for when it comes to making character adjustments. I have a solution in mind, but there's no point in mentioning it because Capcom would never consider it. If Capcom is serious about addressing this issue, they should not be afraid to do what is truly best for the long-term interests, rather than prioritizing short-term gains.
    Capcom should make changes to achieve true game "balance" by buffing and providing new tools to all 7 lower tier characters, while also nerfing ALL 14 top tier characters. The game really needs to be shaken upside down to make it truly refreshing and fair. They also need to carefully assess all characters with regards to "low risk, low reward" and "high risk, high reward". No character should have "low risk, high reward" (such as Cammy, Rashid, etc), which is a common issue among the top tier characters and modern controls. Frankly, I think both the SF fans and Capcom are too fixated on "tiers", something that doesn't exist in the Virtua Fighter community. Tiers should either be abolished or heavily reduced, as each character needs to be as balanced and fair as possible, rather than being pushed to super strong S-tier while another character is labeled as B-tier based on feelings (people that says "balanced means boring" absolutely have no idea what they are talking about and clearly have limited experience in playing fighting games). Additionally, Capcom should not be afraid of "player usage migrations" as an excuse, and should not solely focus on the opinions of one or two pro gamers to make them happy as exceptions should not dictate the norm. This approach has caused the company to make flip-flop decisions (like Luke & JP) which has upset many of their fans.
    Anyway, maybe all of this doesn't matter at all. Like Daigo recently said, "It's best not to wait for Capcom to make changes to the characters you want to be improved; otherwise, you'll be disappointed."

    • @UltraChenTV
      @UltraChenTV  Місяць тому +4

      As I said in the video, I think they KNOW the bottom tier needs help, but as the majority of them are new characters and, thusly, have new archetypes and mechanics they’ve never really balanced before, they’re trying to get it right. JP is the exception because he was strong already at one point so it’s easier to bring him back to that. Any supposed change to say Manon or Kimberly could make them unbearably strong and I think they’re being careful.
      I don’t think there’s any malicious motive behind who they buff and how they buff. And as we can see they’re willing to patch more often now, so we just have to be patient and see how the game progresses. I do kind of hope for more of a shake up in season 3. But that’s me wanting them to alter the System Mechanics more. We’ll see.

  • @fRikimaru1974
    @fRikimaru1974 Місяць тому +1

    Yeah, I was pissed when realized that lariats can't be used to dodge fireballs anymore... Dude...

  • @chimpmasterflex
    @chimpmasterflex Місяць тому +2

    My take on the drive reversal change, was a way for it to be universally punishable, in a somewhat meaningful way. Manon with her 7-frame mediums, means she isn't getting very much off that, so at least I can score a medal (should I want it), and maybe close out a round now. That said, so many characters have 6-frame medium-dr, and are still going to get way more off of this, but it helps. Though, I still think it shows that they are hesitant on buffing Manon herself lol. Kind of the only thing I'm happy about this patch.
    Also forgot to mention, the worst thing about these patch notes reasonings, is how they often identify the major issues, but rarely address them (like scissor kicks). Unless there are just regularly translation issues in them all the time, it is kind of a bad look for them in my eyes.

  • @MrChaos619
    @MrChaos619 Місяць тому +2

    The headbutt nerf on zangief is fucking stupid how you gonna do that on a heavy button with 14 frames startup, the knee is pretty much useless now that any one can hit you from pretty much any range, i can’t understand this changes at all

  • @sawyersimpkins9428
    @sawyersimpkins9428 Місяць тому +3

    Playing Sim and not caring about how strong Gief is is really nice.

  • @SomniaCE
    @SomniaCE Місяць тому +2

    The patch isn't a huge deal all told but the principle of the patch is definitely frustrating. Characters that need/deserve more love being ultimately ignored while high tiers get buffed feels weird. JP needed some love though, I suppose.
    I do think that the Zangief changes were smart though. Adds some counterplay without gutting the character.
    You make some great points about the changed characters being easier to change tho! Most of the low/mid tiers have very specific mechanics or quirks that make them a bit tougher or more volatile to balance properly so more care needs to be taken.

    • @666slateran666
      @666slateran666 Місяць тому +2

      Just give back backwards jumping condor dive. It feels so stupid that Thawk had it in 4 and Lillys was considered a "bug". Blanka can do it so why not Lilly, so frustrating.

    • @SomniaCE
      @SomniaCE Місяць тому

      @@666slateran666 Exactly and especially when the dive is unsafe in almost every usecase anyways.

    • @remylebeau34
      @remylebeau34 Місяць тому

      They have this weird habit of balancing the lower tiers to be a certain way, so you can't play too defensively (no jump back dives/fireballs, no free corner escapes etc) and I think it's fair at first. Then I see Blanka getting to do air ball from back jump, rashid having wall jump, these are top characters that have od dp crmk Dr and insane level 2 supers, and think, wait a minute... Wtf capcom!?

    • @666slateran666
      @666slateran666 Місяць тому +1

      @@remylebeau34 Kim should have a wall jump and OD dp as well. She was good in the beta sure but she wasn't busted like rashid

    • @remylebeau34
      @remylebeau34 Місяць тому

      @@666slateran666 yeah I was so gutted she didn't get a wall jump after maining guy in sf4. The od dp doesn't bother me as much but they shouldnt let every top tier have od dp, if Kim is rush down and that's why she can't have it, thats fine, but like you said she wouldn't be op if she f did have it, and she still doesn't have the other top tier stuff like drive rush fireball or crmk cancels. Nerfing her so bad based on the beta is so dumb, half the cast (especially some op characters) weren't even in it.

  • @LeeZard27
    @LeeZard27 Місяць тому

    What are they doing to Guile?? They've been shaving him off since the beta! And I'm not talking about trimming the fat... They're progressively sending him into full muscle atrophy!!

  • @alfredososa3059
    @alfredososa3059 Місяць тому +1

    Would've been nice if Eds mp was changed to 6 frames instead of 7 or if his light dp was faster. Those are the buffs he needs

    • @dragonic22
      @dragonic22 Місяць тому

      I'm not so sure he needs any buffs at all

  • @TheTourage
    @TheTourage Місяць тому +1

    I’m convinced they didn’t nerf Rasheed because of Gachikun.

  • @fRikimaru1974
    @fRikimaru1974 Місяць тому

    Man, this cat likes cuddles 😸

  • @Mage_Nichlas_
    @Mage_Nichlas_ Місяць тому

    I wouldn't think the Sonic Boom meter gain changes would've affected me, considering I rarely use Level 1 and never use Level 2.
    However, in matches today where I needed Level 1 more often, I legitimately had a couple times where I literally didn't have enough Super Meter to Level 1. Still not going to throw a Medium Boom to counteract this but there is a difference.
    Also, the Driver Meter gain reduction might be troublesome as I Burned Out more than usual today but then again I'm trying to learn how to fight the legion of Bogard and EX Boom and Blade are my current crutches.

  • @MisterTwit
    @MisterTwit Місяць тому

    I honestly think we’re overdue for a change in terminology when it comes to “balance patches”. Ever since games started having seasons, the idea of what balancing consists of changed.
    Balancing used to just be a patch that changed the balance to where the devs intended for the balance to fall. We got, say, a game where X character is meant to be good at anti-airing and so no balance patch will touch those moves no matter how good they get. They’re adjusting the balance around that standard. But now with different seasons they might want that character to back off and let other characters have better jumping. We might call it a “rebalance” or a “shakeup” because it’s setting a new standard for the balance, but just because it touches the same things we call it a “balance patch” still. And then adjustments following that patch are made according to that standard. It’s gotten confusing for people who don’t know the difference.

  • @rabbyd542
    @rabbyd542 Місяць тому +1

    I never have a problem with Akuma. His health is so trash.

  • @remylebeau34
    @remylebeau34 Місяць тому

    Are capcom doing unlisted changes sometimes? I know this might sound weird but I keep seeing things that I'm sure have been tweaked, I can only really speak about Kim since I've played her since launch but I know I found ways to combo drive reversal into spray can explosion way back and another thing I noticed recently is the mixup she gets from qcfhp/qcfpp fjhp where she gets crossup meaty Bhk pretty much never crosses up now. It used to be pretty easy to do.

  • @Dabear3234
    @Dabear3234 Місяць тому

    i really wish they would just change the input for hellstab to forward Mp to make it smother

    • @nujevad28
      @nujevad28 Місяць тому +2

      While we're at it, Tundra storm should just counter all kicks. If Marissa and JP can counter all physical attacks, having Zangief counter just a specific type of kicks is just petty.

    • @UltraChenTV
      @UltraChenTV  Місяць тому +1

      I feel like there is some bet behind the scenes or something because they brought Tundra Storm back from SFV, where it was useless. I think someone lost a bet and the only way out is if someone wins a tournament match in a top 8 with Tundra Storm. It’s the only logical explanation. LOL!

  • @damienlee4992
    @damienlee4992 Місяць тому

    I think capcom afraid to buff Honda even season 2 buffs is nice made his neutral especially frame trap to mp lp hundred hands slap if you spaced it right kinda like his old self but i miss the plus hands his identify is in werid place least bison can stop opponents from walking back which is nice i like that.

  • @KrAceZ-z9r
    @KrAceZ-z9r Місяць тому

    Akuma stocks keep rising 👍🏼

  • @rooksdoubleohseven9919
    @rooksdoubleohseven9919 Місяць тому

    Two questions I think need to be answered about modern fighting games. Though I don't think they'll ever be answered. What percentage of people at certain ranks are on Wi-Fi? And more importantly, would it be wrong to limit the access to casual matches for someone who's played the game a lot? I do believe there are a lot of people who play casual. Only, get really good and just dunk on newbies. That can't be good for the community. I feel like there should be a per character amount of times you're allowed to play casual. In regards to how much you play ranked. Like don't get me wrong. I don't think you should be barred from casual, especially if you hit a ceiling. But I do think there needs to be something done for the people who either have troll accounts where they only play casual, and play real account somewhere else. Or they are people who play ranked enough to get to diamond, and just farm wins. It's not good for the community.

    • @venivediicommented4046
      @venivediicommented4046 Місяць тому

      So where can I warm up before I go into rank, or where can I test out stuff without losing MR, should I be limited to battle hub... Why not just quit and play a diff player . Youre not stuck rematching high skilled players

  • @alexmaganda5827
    @alexmaganda5827 Місяць тому

    nah theres no reason for kim to not have an od reversal when all thes other chars have it rashid being the perfect example here you did not even mention his lvl 2

  • @brandonrice1124
    @brandonrice1124 Місяць тому +2

    Low tier sad people😂😂🤣 jamie needs his own martial art style in street fighter called crazy kung fu because that is how you have to play him just throwing out random attacks hoping something hits.

  • @sardjack
    @sardjack Місяць тому

    Season 1 part 2 😢 im not very confident in S3 changes...

  • @LeanXTriforcer
    @LeanXTriforcer Місяць тому +9

    Grappler hate never ceases to amaze me,

    • @Klemkee
      @Klemkee Місяць тому +4

      Let grapplers be good! The idea that grapplers need to be low-tier is somehow conventional wisdom but there's no good reason for it

    • @jesse76th96
      @jesse76th96 Місяць тому

      Grapplers cannot be top tier, it isn't good for the game

    • @Klemkee
      @Klemkee Місяць тому +3

      Ya that's what I'm talking about. Why isn't it good for the game? There are a decent amount of competitively viable grapplers and it's never ruined the games they are in. King is considered at least A-tier in T8 and he doesn't seem to be the problem for that game. SNK games have some good grapplers. It's fine.
      Obviously it's well-known that devs have to be careful when balancing grapplers and zoners because they can get out of control, but the idea that grapplers can't be viable or it's bad for the game? It's just something people say because they hear other people saying it.

    • @EAprima
      @EAprima Місяць тому +1

      @@jesse76th96 Here's a better idea. How about we abolish designing character in mind of tiers? That's what is leading to all these issues in the first place. No one should be overly powerful and overly weak. If a character is too weak they should be buffed and if a character is too strong they should be nerfed. If a player cannot handle a grappler the majority of the fault us the player not learning how to deal with said grappler. If the issue is non escapable Command Grabs has led to the overall hate towards grapplers in SF then Capcom needs to address that as oppose to avoiding it. I think the issues lies in both but people gotta learn to "get good" as oppose from being fickle and wanting a grappler nerfed because A person don't like X, Y and Z grapplers.

    • @UltraChenTV
      @UltraChenTV  Місяць тому +1

      I mean, look at the kind of hate Zangief is currently getting. That’s why it’s “not good for the game”. There are character archetypes that I call “Make People Quit” characters. Grapplers are a major one. And so is a character like El Fuerte. Case in point: my brother tried to teach his son Street Fighter. And he was doing all fine vs. the CPU but as soon as he fought Zangief and he kept getting SPD’ed by the CPU, my brother said he started screaming and getting super angry.
      So yeah, it’s a bit dangerous. And it sucks. I love Grapplers but I get why it’s risky to make them super strong.
      Also, EVERYONE was crying about King in Tekken 8. Hahaha. I heard so much King hate early on when he was super strong.

  • @666slateran666
    @666slateran666 Місяць тому

    Its honestly so frustrating when Lilly, and Mannon have no buffs. Why keep the bottom tier characters awful? Capcom hates grapplers

    • @depictiongames9758
      @depictiongames9758 11 днів тому

      Lmao did you even watch the video 😂😂😂 it could be capcom is trying to figure out how to fix them to fit in the meta the way they want

  • @Boom_OH
    @Boom_OH Місяць тому

    As a dhalsim player hell yea. As a gief player wtf. This isnt good at all for the game. Manon obviously will never be stronger and if she does expect it to last 3 months max.

  • @ngjeremy8062
    @ngjeremy8062 Місяць тому

    Isnt topanga the toughest tournament?

  • @666slateran666
    @666slateran666 Місяць тому

    I know im the zangief defender guy but i dont think hes bottom tier after the nerfs. Hes mid tier at worst imo, still a far cry from launch zangief.

  • @lsthree6996
    @lsthree6996 Місяць тому

    May as well completely remove Zangief from the roster.

  • @terable3536
    @terable3536 Місяць тому

    James i admire your dedication to Kim, but its time to let it go. Capcom is not going to make her good.

    • @UltraChenTV
      @UltraChenTV  Місяць тому +2

      LALALALALALALALA!!!

    • @666slateran666
      @666slateran666 Місяць тому

      ​​@@UltraChenTVcome to the psycho side James, play Bipson and then it would truly be just a Tuesday.

  • @consciousgentile5141
    @consciousgentile5141 24 дні тому

    Zangief isnt top 15 in this game.
    Im not sure zangief is even as good as Lily

  • @liltom513
    @liltom513 9 днів тому

    gief/akuma/bison need nerfs.

  • @ZenTea
    @ZenTea Місяць тому

    Bison did get nerfed, some smoking crack, take a shower

  • @verbatim7508
    @verbatim7508 Місяць тому

    Zangief didn't get nerfs, he got honesty adjustments. He'll be absolutely fine (unfortunately). The lack of nerfs for Ken, Akuma, Cammy, and Bison are incredibly frustrating and impossible for me to understand. Replay takeover has been a wonderful help, but my problem right now is that learning to fight these characters will not make these MUs any more fun. Even when I beat Bisons and Zangiefs, I'm always like "That was the least fun game I've ever played" so that's my current struggle with SF6 right now. I'm only having fun when I'm fighting an increasingly small handful of characters, even as I improve at the game.
    I still disagree with your philosophy about grapplers-people don't hate grapplers because they don't understand how to fight them, they hate them because they DO understand how to fight them, and they just don't think it's FUN. They get the joke, it's just not funny. The archetype simply puts too much emphasis on the least interesting part of fighting games (the guessing). I will never agree with the idea that fighting games need guessing to function. The reality is that no developer is creative enough to design an FG where everything is reactable, and also have it be good and competitive, but that's a separate topic-even if such a game could be designed (and I strongly believe that it's possible and worth doing), SF6 will never be that game.
    You know why Killer Instinct 1 is my favorite fighting game of all time? Because it has no grapplers.
    It doesn't even have throws. The only way to open up an opponent who's crouch blocking is with a universal overhead that is reactable.
    And it's awesome. It's so, so good.

    • @666slateran666
      @666slateran666 Місяць тому

      Unfortunately? He was so hard to play the first year that now they made him usable people cried.

    • @verbatim7508
      @verbatim7508 Місяць тому

      @@666slateran666 I don't want grapplers to be usable. They make the game less fun, so they should always be bad. I do not care, AT ALL, about the suffering of grappler players. And they don't suffer anyway. Season 1 Zangief wasn't even bad.

    • @666slateran666
      @666slateran666 Місяць тому

      @@verbatim7508 zangief season 1 was bottom 3. And as a grappler main in most games I'm offended, learn to zone better. I'll be taking this up with daddy Capcom stat

    • @verbatim7508
      @verbatim7508 Місяць тому

      @@666slateran666 Wow bottom 3 that sure means a lot when the lowest tier in the game is A. Zoning only goes so far, if you predict one fireball with a jump-in I might as well just quit the game because it's going to be a total casino after that and I don't play SF to gamble. I really don't

    • @666slateran666
      @666slateran666 Місяць тому

      @@verbatim7508 ironic you say that when the entire corner game in 6 is gambling. Don't you know the "Aw dang it!" Meme. Might as well post you to scrub quotes lmao

  • @Runk3lsmcdougal
    @Runk3lsmcdougal Місяць тому

    Akuma has 1000 less life tho

  • @JP_LDN582
    @JP_LDN582 Місяць тому +1

    Devs are just incompetent at this point. The amount of people that picked up gief are all pissed now. I stopped playing after season 2 blanka nerfs.
    The game really isn't fun. Mvc2 is by far better

    • @666slateran666
      @666slateran666 Місяць тому +4

      It's funny how you say Sf6 isn't fun but MVC2 is. That game has a absolutely broken tier list where 3/4 of the cast are unplayable at higher level. I usually complain about sf6s balance but it's better than any MvC

  • @crustis5958
    @crustis5958 Місяць тому +1

    Guile nerf is unacceptable

  • @LeeZard27
    @LeeZard27 Місяць тому

    I cam't believe they keep nerfing Guile and Voodoo fuckery like Bison, Akuma, Ed, Rashid, or now even Terry still persit... I don't hate Gief. My matches with him are very hit or miss... I just can't for the life of me digest the train derailement damage he can still dish out, whereas my main's damage (which was reasonable during season 1) has become meager and marginal since season 2.

  • @git_blame
    @git_blame Місяць тому

    Slap on the wrist -> omg they killed zangief XD

  • @Precision_Peter
    @Precision_Peter Місяць тому

    Went from top 7 to top 10 boo hoo