The best dados- Table Saw vs. Router?
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- Опубліковано 19 кві 2020
- Let's end this dabate once and for all! Three ways to do it, lots of tips along the way...
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My favorite plywood router bits: amzn.to/2VFg1ye
Bora Edge Guide & Router Plate: amzn.to/2XNangh
Digital height gauge: amzn.to/34OI0jg
A comprehensive video about dado sets: • Why your table saw dad...
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Magnetic Dado Shims (Use discount code SNWJ10): ridgecarbidetool.com/magnetic...
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For those who feel disappointed when they get vlog and not project, I say 'good luck learning by trial and error!'. If my classroom experiences [back in the day] had been equipped with little 10 minute 'cut-aways' to your vlogs, I'd be a smarter man today! Thanks Jim for taking the time, it is never in vain.
I’m a beginner woodworker and I can’t stress enough how helpful your videos are. Thank you!
I've used my router table, router and edge-guide, dado stack on a my table saw, and dado stack on my radial arm saw. Rarely am I ever just making a dado cut and that's it, so usually, the project needs determine which tool I use. Since I can do dados with almost any tool, I usually just use whichever tool isn't already setup for something else on the project. (or sometimes, whichever tool doesn't have a ton of stuff piled up on it)
Liked for the correct use of the technical term "cattywampus".
Excellent point! Many people confuse the terms "cattywampus" with "whockerjawled".
I thought it was spelled kattywumpos
I thought it would have been spelled catty wampus!
And I always thought caddywhompus-in fact, my spell check even suggested it!
This is the Harvard University of woodworking. Thanks Professor Hamilton.
Corey, I must agree. When "Professor Hamilton" creates a video, regardless of the topic -absolutely everything is presented in a very succinct manner. It's totally futile, to jot down a few "point-form notes" because each word of every sentence is jam-packed with solid and concise info. Too much to write down. While I always keep my notifications turned "on", I now search "this channel for reference" before doing anything. Thank you for sharing this.
How is it possible that every video you do is always packed with useful information. It's never a waste of my time to click your link. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge.
I just used my Bora NGX for the first time the other day.. and wow.. just have to say.. YES! For anyone considering one, you definitely want the NGX, not the WTX! With the NGX, The circular saw blade is very close to the straight edge, and it comes with a small clear plastic strip that affixes to the bottom. You cut the strip with the saw after affixing it, and now you have a perfectly aligned visual guide to where your blade edge will contact the surface. Just line up the edge of the strip on your line (after considering which side of the line your blade should land on, of course), clamp it down and zooom.
One thing to note, though. The clamps that hold the saw onto the sled can sometimes slip a bit, especially if the blade gets bound in a piece (because you didn't properly support what you thought would be a "small enough" offcut, like I did). So, be sure to check for proper saw alignment in the sled BEFORE EACH CUT.. not before you start using it, but before every cut, just look to be sure it is still secure and straight.
Both ways are great, comes down to what you are comfortable with and the tools on hand. Thanks for sharing with us James. Good information !
This was great! I'm a novice woodworker. I'm planning a set of pantry shelves, so the very specific conditions and circumstances you defined as being preferred with each of the various cutting options was extremely helpful! Thanks so much!
Thanks!
Again, another home run!!
I especially appreciate the tips on using a router for dados since I don’t own a table saw.
You do GREAT work!!
I watched this after making stop dados with my table saw. A lot of good information here. Thank you James.
Great tip on the router fence with shim, you really are a clever bloke James and thank you for teaching me yet another new thing, thank you
This is seriously great channel. Your presentation and valuable experience are on point!
Fantastic, practical content as usual.
I’ve been woodworking nearly as long as your recent birthday and always find good info in your videos.
Thanks.
This is a great educational tutorial. It solidified a lot of the ideas that I had and will help me make better choices in future projects.
One other pro for the router: if you're making a dado that doesn't go to the end of the board, you cannot use a table saw because the blade is round, so it won't get the edge of the dado flat (as a router would)
Love your vids! Really educational!
Still can, just have to clean it up with a chisel or what have you. Which you have to do with the router too just in the other dimension unless the piece being put in the dado is rounded at the end to match the rounded end of the dado.
Still yeah router gives better results for less effort, for me anyway. The repeatability of a table saw is great too though.
A router plane is perfect for this. I make dados with my track saw and clean up the end with a router plane and chisel. Even with a router you'll need to square the corner at the end with a chisel.
Thanks for a informative video, given all of the approaches that you have taken I appreciate the time and effort you have put in to this and all of your other work. Thanks again.
Thanks for helping us newbies out! Your videos are wonderful!
Table saw all the way in my book! Your example of stacking the dado blades on your table and matching the thickness of the stock....is genius. Amazing how simple this is...instead of wasting time trial and error 3-4 x to get it right! Great videos!
You approach and describe like a scientist. Well done.
I ran into this conundrum a few weeks ago when I prepared to repair my wooden fence and privacy screens. I had planned on using a router for 2x4 grooves but could not find the router I was interested in buying due to Covid tools and supplies scarcity! I ended up in buying a Bosch table saw and a nice dado stack with very good reviews (seems similar to the one you are using). Grooving 2x4s went very well - much better than I expected, with a back table support and my son acting as an outfeed puller. I thank you for all the safety tips as I was a table saw newbie and applied a lot of the recent table saw safety advice I got from UA-cam. Thank you for your clips and lessons!!
Another situation where the plunge router is the a really good option is when you need to make a bunch of dados that are all parallel and the same distance apart. I once saw another woodworker make a new plate for his router that had a piece of key-stock attached to the underside. That allowed him to use each dado that he cut in the piece to act as a guide for the next one as the key-stock would slide through the previous dado and hold the router in place.
Decades ago I had access to FR4 fiberglass sheets that varied from 1/64 to 1/8" thick.I cut a selection of strps so I could pad my router bit to whatever I might need.
I usually used 3/4" oaply wood which was about 1/32 underside. I'd measure the stock that was going into the slots to make sure Ihad the correct size slot. I'd set up my edge guids and make the initial cu and then put whatever padding i needed against the guid I make my second cut.
Once you got used to ths system it was pretty simple. For a bookcase you could do both sides of a bookcase with a single setup and you knew they were going to be good because you did both slots at the same time.
I use all three methods, The one I use depends on how quantity, size of the dado and size of the panels. If I'm using the tablesaw then I add a vertical feather board to help keep the panel flat against the table.
What I like to do, when I can, is if I need to plane down wood to fit into a dado I usually cut my dado first at a set width and then plane the piece that fits into it to a size that will fit into it snugly. I find it easier to adjust my planer and run the wood through again to fit the dado rather than the other way around.
That's a nice analysis. One way to make the router version with multiple passes would be to use an adjustable parallel. (Google that if you aren't familiar with them.) After making the first cut, clamp your block against the fence. Then set your adjustable parallel to the desired offset and use it instead of your custom wood block.
If you don't have an adjustable parallel, consider making some out of hardwood.
Ken
thank you for your great content. I am a beginner and I am learning so much! you explain so easy. looking forward for your videos
A great video!!!! no nauseating music really helped.
All your videos are awesome. You are clear and concise and THANK YOU for not including background music to compete with your verbal instruction. So many DIY videos get edited with usually crappy music and often it's difficult to hear the instruction. I learned so so much last night when I watched your video on safety both with the table saw and grinder. I think your delivery is perfect and like I said concise. If I miss something I can go back and watch it again. You cover so much material and instruction quite quickly and as a newbie I have to pay close attention to terms used to take it all in. I'm a retired guy now and I'm building my tool collection. My dado stack comes tomorrow. It's a good thing I have an understanding wife. I had no idea just how expensive this little hobby can be. People like yourself make it all fun, SAFE and a great retirement diversion. Keep up the good work. I'll be watching with all my stumpy nubs intact..
The advantage I have found with using a router to cut dados is that I can use a marking knife to make exact marks on either side of the actual board that goes in that slot. Then I use a bit that is at least a little more than 1/2 the width of the dado slot. For standard nominally 3/4" thick boards or plywood, I use a 1/2" bit. I make one pass where the bit just kissing one knife mark and cut one side of the slot. Then I slide the fence so that the opposite side of the bit just kisses the other knife mark. By have the bit be more than half the width of the slot, just two passes gives me a slot of _exactly_ the right width for that particular piece of wood that has to fit into it. This also lets me reduce the number of bits I need. I find that a 5/16" and a 9/16" bit (both with 1/4" shanks so I can use my trim router) lets me cut daddos from 5/16" to 1" wide. And with just two bits to cut a wide range of dado widths, I can afford to get the fancy *astra* coated (whatever that is) carbide bits that are around $40 each.
Of course you can do the same thing with a table saw. But unless you take the time to swap out a regular saw blade with angled tops on the teeth for a blade with flat top teeth, you have to use a chisel or router plane to clean up the little "V" grooves a standard blade leaves behind. I would much rather swap router bits than table saw blades all the time.
A perceptive and articulate assessment. Thank you.
Another good one - why are you the only guy comiing up with such basic but valuable videos
This is very well done - thorough, clear, and even-handed. I, too, have used each of the techniques shown here and agree that each is best in certain circumstances. That said, I acquired a good router long before I was able to buy a good table saw, and used a router for "everything" for far too long. In more recent years I have increasingly found that the table saw is my default tool: if something can be done on it, that's probably the best way to go. The smaller the job, the more likely I can save a couple of minutes by using a router. But while a router is laboring its way across a few inches of stock, my cabinet saw breezes through and is ready for the next piece. Much better table support, dust control, and less noise.
Links to stuff in this video►
My favorite plywood router bits: amzn.to/2VFg1ye
Bora Edge Guide & Router Plate: amzn.to/2XNangh
Digital height gauge: amzn.to/34OI0jg
A comprehensive video about dado sets: ua-cam.com/video/Ex4UgxzaB0Q/v-deo.html
My Dado Set (use discount code SNWJ10): ridgecarbidetool.com/dado-set...
Magnetic Dado Shims (Use discount code SNWJ10): ridgecarbidetool.com/magnetic...
When you use this link to visit our sponsor, you support us►
Sawblade.com: www.sawblade.com/
Your videos I think are the best and to the point thank you 👍👍👍
Thanks again, Stumpy for more sage advice. Keep the videos coming.
Like others have commented, router or table saw for dadoes largely depends both on equipment availability and what the project is. My router is mounted on the righthand extension of my Grizzly table saw. My old saw was a large Craftsman and I purchased an extension from MLCS to mount the router. With my cutoff addition to the table saw, I have almost nineteen square feet of table space. I can also put my saw fence on the "wrong" side of the router and work with pieces way too large for a normal sized router table. I will never again even consider a table saw that does not have provision for mounting a router. Which I use for a dado or a groove is usually dictated by the project.
The video showed me a time saving tip. I never thought about stacking the dado blades on the table to get a rough (or perfect) dado width. I always do this on the saw and it can be a pain. Great video.
You just need any flat surface. The cast iron saw top can chip the corners of the teeth on your dado set, so I avoid putting them on the top of the saw.
Really glad I found this channel. 👍🏻😁
Great comparison and evaluation. Thanks.
Great video! Exactly the information I was looking for.
Thank you for yet another exelent episode, i learned a lot already and its not even 7am.
Great discussion James, thanks for sharing.
Hey SN; I just got your book for some quarantine projects. The router lift looks great! Hope you’re staying healthy.
Very helpful and well presented. Thank you.
Thanks James. Great content.
Great video! A lot of good information.
Nice review and some great suggestions. Thanks!
Great comparison! Personally I like the Festool track and router combo for large panels and bookcases since I invested in the saw for large panels, the step to the router was not a big one and works very smooth. The vac makes this a very clean process as well. It can be a bit fussy but each method requires good test cuts, and I don’t find this any more time consuming than any other process.
For me it's the router all the way. I don't have a Saw Stop, I only have a Dewalt contractor saw. It works very well for what it is, but still kinda scares me if I have to use it without the blade guard and riving knife on. Thanks for introducing me to the Bora guides. It will change my routing life!
Thanks! This helps w the ever present router vs table saw thoughts!
Another great video! If I have one or two dados to cut I'll use the table saw and just make multiple passes with a single blade. Assuming it isn't a long board or something that just isn't safe on the table saw.
gosh that bora router guide was fantastic. I want to get one.
Great tips. Great video. Thank you for sharing.
Nice Job James.
You didn't end the debate. You highlighted the best applications for both. Neither is best in all situations. Still, an informative video and good reasons why I need to have more tools.
Another on point video! Thanks again!
That bora edge guide system looks really good.
Another good topic for me. Thanks 🤘
Awesome! Thanks for the videos
Freud 8" safety dado has never failed me! Comes with shims!
Thank you this is so helpful
Excellent overview! I've gravitated towards a hand-held router with a smaller pattern bit and an adjustable exact-width jig. The Wood Whisperer has an excellent re-usable one. I tend to just whip up a custom one per project since it takes seconds. The result is a perfect sized dado much faster than any other (perfect sized) option.
There are only two notable downsides to that method. The first is that if I am cutting a groove in an 8' sheet for some reason, then creating a custom jig that long might stretch my available straight scrap. The second is that for awhile I didn't have a pattern bit smaller than 1/2" and so 1/2" dados/grooves were out of the question.
Modify your jig or make another one that uses your router with a guide bushing and a straight bit that is smaller than your 1/2 inch.
As usual another great, informative video. I personally like using a dado but, as you said, it all depends. Thanks.
This was a great discussion.
Well James, you are right as usual. I would add one word "Kerfkeeper" works with both. And I do have a nice jig from Rockler which works well as well.
Your view point is based on using a dado for the thickness of plywood. There are other reasons to use a dado. For example, we use dados to assemble a 4”x4” post to a hanging arm (which is also 4”x4”). We need a depth of 1.75”. So we use dado blades. I do like using a router to dado where it works however.
Your vids are spott on sir👌🏴
thanks for this, I've used all three but for the most part prefer my trusty dado stack for most work. I use the router table for rabbets on small stock as I have a good rabbeting bit and it is far easier to set up than the dado stack allowing me to dial in the exact dimensions for small boxes and the like. Let the project decide I guess. Thanks always for sharing. Cheers from BC!
I use the router for 2 reasons: My 70 year old Craftsman table saw doesn't have a height lock and the dado blades will sink as I cut. Also, I've found it nice to have the saw set up for cuts and the router setup for dadoes. Makes the workflow nice and quick. I realize that not everyone is as fortunate.
I tend to use my router table for grooves and my table saw for dados.
1. Things that fit in grooves, like panel door panels, drawer bottoms etc. are usually intended to float a little to allow the wood to expand and contract, so a slightly oversized fit is desired, and that's pretty much exactly what I get from my quarter inch router bit.
2. 3/4 inch dados for plywood or dimensional lumber usually have to be dialed in, which is more practical with a dado set.
3. Plowing out half-lap joints is more practical on a table saw.
4. A lot of the projects I do involve a quarter inch groove, and several 3/4 inch dados. It's just easier for me to set up two tools for those different operations.
"do the detroit lions suck or do they really suck?" Nearly spit out my water. Thanks for the laugh!
Okay, so I'm just getting caught up on the content here... it takes a while to watch every single video on the ol' interweb... :) But an option not covered is to add a router table to the end of your table saw. Best of both worlds! Expand your table saw working surface, have the full table available for cutting dados with either the dado stack or router bit, have access to the larger, more stable table saw fence if you want it or the smaller router table fence for smaller pieces. And having the router hanging under the table saw means less floorspace is required to get a super stable setup. Who really wants one of those dinky benchtop router tables when you can have the whole mass of the table saw working for you?
Love this channel. Hate that I've got years of content to catch up on.... lol
I have a router extension on my table saw with an Incra saw/router system. I always wanted to know if this was the best method for doing my dados and after watching this I know it is, so thanks heaps.
I use any of the three methods depending on the job, but I've also made many dado cuts with my radial saw.
Good comparison of dado methods. I find it easier to fine-adjust depth with a router table. Router bits make a smoother bottom to the dado. I'm reluctant to tie up my TS by using a dado set. In short, I look to the router table first If I'm making many dados, I'll consider the TS.
I use two of the three methods here. The dado stack I have not tried yet. I did outfit my router table with a 17 inch LS Positioner, which gives me some width capacity and adjustments are simple, I can dial in 1/64 inch increments moving the fence backwards and forwards for the right fit. For long cabinet sides, I use a dado jig or a simple locking guide for setting the dados. I like the speed of the table saw, but as I said have not ventured there yet.
A nice discussion of this issue but I was surprised you didn't bring up the exact width dado jig you inspired me to make. I made mine to allow me to cut up to a 32 inch long dado for cabinetry work. Ever since building this is is a slam dunk method for ease of setup, safety, depth setting... Well, I just can't imagine doing it any other way now as long as the cut is not longer than the jig allows. I can do multiple dados with it MUCH faster and better than with any other method. Anyway, I wanted to acknowledge an unmentioned option which reflects well on you with my thanks!
I did say there are homemade options. :)
Thanks, lots of good info here
It’s like you know exactly what I’m thinking and then you post a video about it. Lol
Great! Thanks for the video!
wow tons of good stuff - thanks
Living in Europe, people often say that dados are illegal, but as far as I'm aware that is not the case. It is not the dado blade itself which causes the difficulty but the fact that the blades are unguarded with the riving knife etc removed for the dado to work. In a professional environment you have to have some sort of guard to be considered legal; however this regulation rightly or wrongly does not apply to the home amateur environment, so you can use them without a guard - obviously it would be advisable to make some sort of protective guard. There is one other complication in that under EU law, table saw blades must stop with 10 seconds after hitting the stop button, for most table saws that's not a problem and even with the added weight of a dado setup, there shouldn't be a problem there either. I think for most people the issues are more of having a powerful enough saw motor and that the arbor is long enough to accommodate multiple blades.
Great comparison...enjoy your videos and tutorials! Please include Closed Caption...too many years in machine/wood shops make it a valuable tool for me!
Hey man. Thanks for more good info.
Great video, the triton router you use does have a dust port which I have used to connect to a shop vac. This caught a good 90% of the dust.
Mine doesn't catch near that much of the dust.
I am a professional cabinet maker. I use the Freud Dial a width dado set. For semi-production work, the table saw is the hands down winner. Down side is the Freud set is pricey unless you have the volume to justify it.
Good food for thought.
Another great video, by the way, I'm so old I remember when the Lions didn't suck, but I was very young then.
At least you have a team that sucks my StL. lost the Cardinals and the Rams and then the XFL Battlehawks ugh!
James, this video is gold. Thank you for all of the thoughtful, useful content. Now the real pressing issue, U-M or MSU? Go Blue!
Wolverines, of course :)
“A tablesaw fence is super-fast to set” lol - not in my shop! Great video - especially the ideas for varying router dadoes.
Ah, hello fellow owner of a garbage table saw fence.
Thanks Paul, I’ve looked at that saw (online) - I just want something a little more powerful, like something that will at least fully utilize todays 20A 120 v circuits. I use a festool ts55 for most work now in my tiny garage, but if one of these nice jobsite/ folding saws comes out with more power and still handles a dadoe I’ll be all over it. I see many people making really good use of these judging from youtube and pinterest!
Nice overview of all the options.
Interestingly, some of the EU countries that don't allow dado sets, DO allow sets that are more like shaper tooling as long as the saw has sufficient braking capability. I have a Felder saw, and they have their own dado/groove stack that is expensive, but super nice. It uses carbide insert tooling. It's no faster to set up than US dado tooling.
For me, it's much easier to use the table saw, because my router table isn't sized or positioned in a way that's good for larger boards. I *have* used the hand-held router for some bookshelves I built, luckily my router has decent (for a router) dust collection :P
I live in the UK so stoopid laws mean no dado's due to the arbours being too short. I got round that by getting a custom 11mm TC grooving blade made by a specialist company which fits the standard arbour. Being 11mm I quickly do a second pass for exact width. Not ideal, but a great workaround for nanny state laws! I love your vids, thanks! 👍
Just import a saw I did
I’m with Sprint! The Incra Ts Ls is the answer. You should do a review on it! Thanks!
Chisel with optional No. 71 router plane
The superior method is the one you are most comfortable with, and most practiced with.
I have a small collection of shims that I use as auxiliary fences and thus do not need to adjust the fence for the second pass. I should add that I am using a Shopsmith as my table saw so fence adjustment can be more challenging than the Biesemeyer or other fence systems out there.
I have cut a lot of dados using a straight board clamped right on the edge (or one on each edge) of the actual dado then using a top-bearing guided bit. You don't have to calculate offsets and if you put a board on each side you don't have to worry about wandering away from the line and can cut any strange width you need, just use a piece of your material to space your two guide boards. It may be a bit of a hack, but it's worked well for me. Actually I think that the bit I normally use is a hinge mortising bit that I got 40 years ago or so.
Thanks, James. That's a great review of the options as well as the pros and cons of each. Obviously different materials affect feed rates, but given the same material, do you notice a difference in the required feed rate to ensure a clean cut and minimal chip-out? Also between the rouer bit and the dado stack, and provided you have a good sharp cutting edge, do you notice one gives you less chip-out than another?
I had a need for a 1/4" rabbet for a picture frame and had a heck of a problem with my router table set up. I was trying to use a 1/4" bit. For the life of me i could not get an accurate cut, trying to set my fence up. I found using a larger rabbet (1/2") bit and found it much easier to set my fence accurately for a nuts on 1/4" rabbet. Looked at a previous video from stumpy nubs to set my mind straight .
There is one big factor your missing when it comes to fence setup, whether it be tablesaw or router table......that is INCRA! Absolutely is repeatable and super easy to take mere thousands ( and yes it is that accurate!! ) off of a workpiece without all the fidgeting a "normal" fence requires. Your 1/2 " router bit can in fact be used to make all the first passes, then all the second passes, or finish each dado completely, no other fence offers the repeatability or accuracy of incra. Even using the LS,( router only) fence system bolted to my extension wing, my old 1950's delta 8" homecraft tablesaw can cut within a few thousands of an inch over and over again. This sounds like a sales pitch, but if you've never looked at incra and you do serious woodworking, you need to. I'm just a hobbiest, but it has saved me time, and allowed me to create certain pieces that with a standard fence never could be done.