The Battle of Jutland - Clash of the Titans - Part 3 (Aftermath, Outcome and Lessons)
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- Опубліковано 11 сер 2020
- Today we look at the Battle of Jutland, the short term and long term outcomes, who won, and what lessons both sides learned.
Sources:
www.dreadnoughtproject.org/tfs...
www.amazon.co.uk/Grand-Fleet-Warship-Development-1906-1922/dp/184832085X
www.amazon.co.uk/JUTLAND-Analysis-Fighting-Conway-Classics/dp/0851777503
www.amazon.co.uk/Jutland-Unfinished-Personal-History-Controversy-ebook/dp/B01LXCAJJ1
www.amazon.co.uk/Imperial-War-Museum-Book-1914-18-ebook/dp/B005E8AAB2
www.amazon.co.uk/Voices-Jutland-Commemoration-Jim-Crossley/dp/1473823714
www.amazon.co.uk/Jutland-1916-Angus-Konstam-ebook/dp/B01FIV8VMY
www.amazon.co.uk/Jutland-1916-Archaeology-Naval-Battlefield-ebook/dp/B01NCNJPEZ
www.amazon.co.uk/Jutland-Naval-Appreciation-William-Schleihauf-ebook/dp/B01M5AZM7V
www.amazon.co.uk/Germanys-High-Sea-Fleet-World-ebook/dp/B00DUDIJ0C
www.amazon.co.uk/Battle-Jutland-Bank-31-june-1916/dp/B00AWMR9UU
www.amazon.co.uk/Grand-Fleet-1914-1916-Illustrated-Development/dp/B084P1XPQP
www.jutland1916.com
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Pinned post for Q&A :)
What hapened with your video about CV-13? Are you going to do it again? If not please, release it in another platform, it was one of your bests :)
do u fart
Pls cover the Injim War!!! Those giant old navel battles would b really cool to learn about it.
@@aurorabesalduch2499 it's an ongoing situation but I am trying to resolve it
Can you think of any naval disasters that occurred because things were done on the cheap?
I often think of the stokers from this era, trapped deep inside the darkness of the ship, only lit by furnaces devouring coal like monsters, sweating to death in hellish heat, knowing nothing about what happening outside, feeling only brutal changes of speed and directions, heavy shells hitting home, fearing if it was the prelude of an horrible death by explosion or drawn. What a courage these men had. Respect to all those unknown braves.
I can think of few things more terrifying than a engine room filling with water when the power gives out. I've had nightmares about it before.
Yep, crappy way to reach Heavens Gates. 😔
I think it would be like being on a submerged sub.
I think that was the same for all stokers. Two of my uncles were on Park ships and when they were in the hole the hatch was closed. In other words, during your time in the hold chances were you were going to go down with the ship if it were hit. Ironically my uncle Fred, having been on the merchant ships since before the war went back to his cabin after finishing his shift and arrived just in time to get killed by the torpedo that just caught the very end of his ship, the Point Pleasant Park in 1945. His friends on the ship said that 5 minutes would have been the difference of being where the torpedo hit or missing injury completely. That's fate I guess.
@@petersone6172 Subs were much, much smaller and pretty much the whole crew would have a god idea of the big picture, what the sub was trying to do, what dangers it faced, and what was likely to happen. The difference for the stokers is that they were deprived of any meaningful real-time information about the battle. They just had to stand and shovel coal for hours on end and hope the ship didn't blow up or flood catastrophically without any warning to them.
„They had us in the first half not gonna lie.“
- Jellicoe to the press after the Battle of Jutland, 1916, probably.
Part of Jellicoe's problem is he never did say that. Jellicoe didn't throw Beatty under the bus. Beatty probably should have been court-martialed for his performance at Jutland, but Jellicoe thought it would be bad for the service. And that's how we got Beatty and Chatfield as eventual First Sea Lords, when they probably should have been dishonorably drummed out of the service.
Now we know why the Germans brushed-up on their penalty shoot-outs.
@@PaulfromChicago Although both fought hard for their service between the wars, in the face of perpetual behind the scenes intriguing by the navy's most intransigent enemy, the bomber barons of the RAF.
The game was the true winner here lol
@@PaulfromChicago While it is true that if one is to become a good leader, one must take responsibility, and that's probably what Jellicoe did. I can't help but think Beatty should've been thrown under a double decker.
Major props to the captain of HMS _Tiger_ who, being told to do a bunch of really risky stuff to improve his fire rates, smiled, nodded, and completely ignored this insanely dangerous "advice" even though a slower performance at gunnery practice must have cost him career-wise. I'd say he should get some kind of reward for it, but surviving Jutland despite the absolute *hammering* _Tiger_ took was probably reward enough.
1:30
Scheer: We've sunk Warspite!
Warspite: My death was greatly exagerated.
Ark Royal.... "Tell me about it."
Warspite: I LIVED BITCH
Lmao
There must have been a very angry but somewhat low-powered and inaccurate deity attempting to sink the ship, and an equal but opposite one successfully protecting it.
Warspite like 3 months later: HELLO BOYS! I'M BAAAAACK!
British ordinance officers were sacked eventually made their way to the US and began torpedo development 😀
LOL! That was a beautiful comment!
They may as well defected to Germany, based on their rate of dud torpedoes in WWII.
Hahaha, you probably need to be at least a few months old drac fan to get this. Good one lol
I need to ask if that was a lot to do with the utter failure of the MK-14 torpedo?.
LOL, now THAT was funny.....hahahaha, what a great comment....
"Distressing habit of a number of ships to violently disassemble themselves while under fire" XD
and letting the entire enemy fleet escape a perfect trap due to inexcusable miscommunications, assumptions and lack of PROPER REPORTS.
@@JeanLucCaptain aka incompetence Greatest navy on the planet and you can't get a win against a fleet half your size because you don't know what you're doing.
And the main cause of such catastrophes being... *THE KAMCHATKA*
People: WE WANTED TRAFALGER!!! (People start chucking coal)
HMS Warspite: You do know the 15in guns in my A Turret are still working right?
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Warspite's Engineer: "That's ok Guns..we need to refuel before dawn , anyway. Hey , Civvies ! Next time , Bring Wheel borrows ! It'll Load us faster !!"
CALL AN AMBULANCE
b u t n o t f o r m e
@@panzerdeal8727 _Warspite_ was oil-powered, though...
@@vikkimcdonough6153 So we'll break out a barbie and roast prawns over it...
Sole survivor of Jutland...HMS Caroline now a museum ship in Belfast harbour.
Last saw her 5 years ago, but remember her well from the 1970s as the RNR HQ ship.
That's really sad.
@@allaneriksen7171 she was in commission until like 2007.
isnt she one of the longest serving ships ? uss constitution and other floating museums not including .
If only they would remove that ugly deck house thing on the aft end of the ship, and restore her properly to her 1917 appearance!
The benefits of having a gigantic navy: the ability to take major losses and just keep plowing along like nothing happened.
Tactical victory on one side...strategic victory on the other!
@@derekmcmanus8615 Strategically a victory for neither.
"We have more ships than you have shells. "
@@bkjeong4302 A strategic victory for the British actually. The blockade was not broken, the aftermath of the battle saw the German fleet running with tails between their legs.
@@slinkerdeer The Germans weren't trying to break the blockade at Jutland anyways, so the fact they didn't says little abut who won. It was supposed to be a hit-and-run raid from the start, and the major engagement wasn't part of German plans.
The idea the Germans wanted a decisive victory at Jutland needs to die. What the Germans actually wanted there was to reduce British fleet strength by a few capital ships. Breaking the blockade was a goal for the WAR, not for the battle.
I'd have to say the Beatty was the biggest winner here: lost his battle, his pitifully incompetent signal captain, he never got court-martialed, cuckolded one of his captains for 10 years, then got promoted to Admiral of the Fleet and First Sea Lord, has a big chest full of medals and a lot of initials after his name and he never, ever answered for his failures here?
How did you know he was sleeping with one of his captains wife ?
Annoyingly the signalmen was less at fault than beatty. If i remember correctly beatty chose him, put him in a position where he was doomed to fail, then threw him under the bus, and the guy killed himself due to the shame
I agree.he left the 4 most powerful battleships behind and the storage of shells and cordite was criminal.
Beatty strikes me as terrifically flawed: personally brave and with some qualities of leadership, but thick as a plinth, egotistical, and a horrific social climber. Destroying the official account of Jutland sounds completely in character; I may look out for Adm Bacon’s book on Jutland to see what the brightest British admiral had to say about the dullest.
With all respect to Hipper, I think virtually anyone else in charge of the RN battlecruisers would have results much more proportionate to the force disparity. Much more importantly, virtually anyone else would have done better with scouting and signals.
Well, Beatty was put there by a slimy politician...
I've read countless books on Jutland. These three videos taught me more about it than all the pages I have read. Thanks for this historical analysis.
I agree
Like Stuart at Gettysburg, Beatty completely forgot what he was there for and failed spectacularly at his mission. A bit of better luck and a slightly more favorable loss ratio of battlecruisers wouldn't have changed that: his job wasn't to pick off a ship or two, it was to provide timely and accurate information about the location and composition of enemy forces so as to enable the Grand Fleet to engage and destroy them.
I like the part Drachinifel stated that Iron Duke's gunnery crews made pacts with whatever powers present during the Battle of Jutland to achieve accurate gunnery during that brawl on the seas.
Now if Iron Duke had borrowed the New Zealand's captain, that would have been enough plot armour to sail up to Germany and detonate all the mines without any damage except to U-boats.
@@theokamis5865 Take _Iron Duke’s_ fire control and gun crews, _New Zealand’s_ captain (with skirt), put them all on _Warspite,_ and you’ll have the most overpowered and plot armored ship in history. A weapon to surpass Tillman IV-2.
@@jamesharding3459 That is probably the most terrifying thing possible. Aside from having the US Navys Admiral Lee commanding overall
@@Kellen6795 and perhaps Seydlitz' determination to not sink
I always love with how much determination Drach says "Schleswig-Holstein". Never not funny. :)
Wasnt that the same ship that started ww2 by bombarding polish forts?
Andrew Barker correct.
@@stanleyrogouski Shless-vick Holl-shtine. You may remind Al-bairt Ine-Shtine if You like
@@stanleyrogouski Yeh, takes some wrapping your head around that, though it's more about elevation, apparently. Though "high german" is just the official language nowadays, and in no way connected to the dialects spoken in the south. Probably closer to a prussian dialect.
Weirdly, in German, it's pronounced "Throatmangler warblegrove".
Poor Jellicoe - probably one of the best performances of a battle admiral in the 20th century, missing horn's reef only, given Beaty's terrible performance that really should have led to a court martial or demotion. That Beaty recieved a promotion was a travesty. Was any atempt made after Jutland to improve reporting/intelligence reporting to avoid scheers main success - that in extricating himself via Horn's reef happening again. Was signalling practice and reporting improved in the Battlecruiser fleet? Mainly it seems that Jellicoe did extremely well given the poor situational awareness he was forced to work with (which you could say was his responsibility given he was responsible for training the fleet). In a way the ludite shell failures is almost similar to the MK14 issue but less well known, that Jellicoe fixed this (and could have fixed it before) is remarkable.
Imagine risking life and limb serving on a warship and having sustained damage from naval shells, yet luckily survived. Only to return to your home country to be pelted with insults and coal.
Makes my blood boil.
I just can't understand it. Pathetic people.
This happens when nationalistic hybris meets reality. Told by hawks and stirres that they could expect a new Trafalgar, they didn´t take the time to find out about a decisive, strategic victory that just happened. Instead of that they got angry, but not at the enemy, but at the own sailors that didn´t meet there fantasy expectations.
You can blame the press for that.
Ps. "Wouldn't it be nice if the people of Hong Kong had human rights?"
@@gerokron3412 Yeah, a dangerous mix of populism, propaganda and ignorance of realities.
Not only that, but that one is Warspite, the very ship remembered as the greatest and most honored of her time.
Can you imagine Jellicoe feelings?
He commanded his country most powerful fleet until them,
managed to sneak without the enemy suspicion
and crossed the T
he did all this to see Beatty do something stupid,
I do have to say, the Royal Navy definitely knows how to name it's ships.
It's sad that many other countries, especially the Yanks, name them after politicians when their ships could have far less divisive and more inspirational names.
@@Dave_Sisson if Theodore Roosevelt doesn’t inspire you you’re probably gay
Then again being in the Navy you’re already gay
@@looinrims the original progressive? Yeah, pass. Naming a ship the Nimitz is ok. The Obama or Bush or Trump is just asking for trouble.
@@Gotterdammerung05 Our Newest Carrier is going to be named the Dorris Miller, after the First African American to earn the Navy Cross. He was a cook aboard USS West Virginia that manned an AA gun during Pearl Harbor
@@usswestvirginiabb-4868 Not to disparage his name or anything, but I'd honestly name a destroyer after him instead of a carrier. Admirals half the time don't get the honor of having flattops named after them, why should a (admittedly badass) cook?
I honestly want to see the US Navy go back to older names for carriers. Names like Yorktown, Hornet, Essex, Lexington. They're the names that struck fear into the hearts of our enemies 80 years ago. Why not reuse them now?
This trilogy has been absolutely riveting. It should be required material for any historical student to aim to achieve. Heartiest congratulations Sir Drach.
Well, this battle is so complex, the only way to begin to understand is to game it. Naval wargaming is an essential tool. and fun. Ima game this using rules called "Grand Fleets", but there are lots out there.
How many did you sink?
Both countries: *Y E S*
Well the Germans technically sunk more tonnage, but they failed to break the blockade.
APPROXIMATELY ALL OF THEM. PLEASE SEND HELP.
@@stevenmoore4612 hench why Jutland was a British victory
@@MrHistory269 It was a strategical victory for the British, and it was tactical victory for the Germans. However if the Germans kept up picking off pockets of the Royal Navy after Jutland instead of hiding in port, than perhaps they could’ve broken the blockade. But who knows? Von Hipper said afterwards “if we attempt this again it will be the end of us”. However it was evident from Jutland that the Germans did had the edge in precise aiming, safety procedures, and durability of their warships.
@@stevenmoore4612 did you miss the part where the Germans admitted they got lucky to escape as well as they did?
Royal Navy gunnery doctrine: "If you can't shoot straight, shoot often."
Shoot often and then explode, yes.
Quantity has a quality all it's own
Mel Brooks uses this method for jokes in his movies. If you tell enough, some are bound to be funny.
Isn't that a US Navy doctrine?
It was, but we eventually got better at it.😉
Warspite: crawls home after having been kicked, shot and taunted by the jerries, crying a little, and thinking about warm blankets and comfort food
British public: "AND SO AS A BLASPHEEEEMER, you are to be stoned to death!"
Warspite: Oww! Lay off! We haven't started yet!
The press: Come on! Who threw that? Who threw that coal? Come on.
Crowd: She did! She did! He did! He! He. He. Him. Him. Him. Him. He did.
Culprit Woman: Sorry. I thought we'd started.
The press: Go to the back.
@@kevinrowe6902 The press: There's always one isn't there. Now, where were we?
Warspite: Look, I don't think it ought to be blasphemy, just limping back to port with battle damage.
Crowd: See! See! See!
The press: You're only making it worse for yourself!
D:
Its the Warspite we're talking about. She might got shot, scarred and crippled but it was just a begining of her war path. That ship has never learned how to give up.
Well... current events have proven people can be really stupid, like really really really stupid. And that's as much as I'm going to discuss current events.
On a strategic level, Germany was basically stuffed even before the battle. All England had to do was not to get chased out of the sea to maintain a blockade of shipping towards Germany. Germany, on the other hand, needed a total victory to get any hope in... something hot... to lift that very same blockade.
Screw Star Wars and LoTR, Drach’s Jutland is now my favourite trilogy.
You wait until Secret Hide out and Bad Robot reboot..... .
@@davidbrennan660 Them's fighting words... Keep Jar Jar away from Drach.
@@davidbrennan660 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
@@stanleyrogouski Jelico and Sheer didn't had horses to run on the deck of enemy ships .
@@obelic71 😆😆😆
This Jutland Trilogy was epic and educational. Thank you very much to all involved!
You could say it was Scheer luck that the shell performance issues hadn’t been resolved by the time of the battle.
ZING.....
ohhh nice dad joke 👍
Exactly
Warspite: master of the valkyrie ride of circling doom.
And she was defiant until her end. Rather than being scrapped at the breakers yard at Faslane, she broke free from her tug boats and beached herself on a rocky ledge in Cornwall. Unable to refloat her sufficiently to finish her last voyage, she was instead dismantled more or less in situ, right beside St. Michaels Mount. A fitting way to go for this great ship. Quite sad that Britain was too broke and in decline after the war, else HMS Warspite may have been preserved and would now be moored alongside HMS Victory.
@@stanleyrogouski exactly. They are beautiful and grand ships, but ultimately fairly worthless. Just very, very large and expensive anti-aircraft ships.
I have a lot of love for the Iowa's, but it's frankly quite sad that they are THE battleships in the minds of so many.
@@arthurfisher1857 well that is mostly because they are the only battleships that are still around.
@@gokbay3057 I know the reason, I'm just saying it's a pity
@@arthurfisher1857 I mean, there's some argument that battleships arguably still have some utility in the role of shore-bombardment (especially given the massive costs of modern day munitions). Not to mention that while a battleship could be rendered ineffective, it would take quite the powerful warhead to deal fatal damage. I recall my father (a naval aviator) once relaying to me that the Iowas were something of a headache for the Soviets for much of the Cold War because they lacked the sheer ship-killing power to guarantee that one could be sunk, which was why during their active periods they often served as flagships owing to the fact that there was a fairly good chance that while anti-ship missiles could kill the much lighter modern ships, killing a battleship would require a lot of effort.
I live in Jutland. I've been visiting many museums (large or small) over the years on the west coast of Jutland. In most museums there is a small portion commemorating this battle. Many dead sailors or debris flowed up on the beach in the days (or even weeks) after the battle. If I recall correctly some sailors are buried in Denmark others were brought home to their countries.
Very well done Drach and others on this trilogy of videos.
I've always felt that the usual answer to "who won the battle of Jutland" is to say "well, the Royal Navy won the North Sea campaign." Considering what the Germans were trying to achieve - a strategic raid intended to inflict disproportionate losses on the enemy whilst avoiding a general fleet action - they have every right to claim victory, but there is no question it was a pyrrhic one.
I do wish the old saws that the High Seas Fleet "never sailed again" and that they lost because "they didn't hold the field" could be finally put to bed, however. The former is simply false and the second fails to recognise the strategic reality the Germans were facing - the Germans could have sunk twice as many ships and lost none, but they'd still have quit the field rather than take on the entire Grand Fleet at once. They simply didn't have the numbers to try and take on the Grand Fleet all at once.
The truth is both sides achieved their immediate objectives in the battle, but neither side did so in a manner that was at all satisfactory to them. The British failed to achieve a second Trafalgar whilst Germans realised that their underlying strategy couldn't possibly work, and that's why no one will ever be able to definitively say who won at Jutland.
I've always considered Jutland of being a tactical victory for Germany, but a strategic victory for the RN.
It's really a tie that could've gone to the Germans had Jellicoe not came in with the save.
If you take the traditional view of who won the battle(aka whoever controls the battlefield when its all done and dusted) then the British won since they chased the Germans back to port and maintained control over the north sea, if its just tonnage lost then the Germans win, if its parity of fightable ships after the battle then the British win, etc, etc.
@@deeznoots6241 But as I say, the Germans were conducting a strategic raid. They weren't trying to "hold the battlefield." The idea that the RN won because the HSF quit the field is a fallacy.
As a thought experiment, imagine if the Germans had completely wiped out the Battlecruiser Fleet and the 5th Battle Squadron and taken no losses in return. Such was the preponderance of British forces that they'd still have needed to quit the field before the Grand Fleet caught up with them - but would that give the RN grounds to claim that they'd "won?"
Lets face it the HSF never intended to fight the Grand Fleet, they came close to stripping the Grand Fleet of its battle curisers - their original objective but actually failled in that and lost their own.
So in over-brief summary:
*Ze Germans*
Ships, armaments, men, and leaders, all performed about as well as could be hoped while enjoying a good few lucky escapes.
*The British*
Ships and armaments performed poorly at best and men performed about as well as could be hoped, spotty gunnery aside.
The Admiralty varied from idiot inertia to downright incompetence and dereliction of duty.
Ship's officers varied from dreadful to performing as one would expect.
Admirals were generally poor, Beatty treasonously incompetent, with Jellicoe a beacon of brilliance given what he had to work with.
*The Score*
A tactical draw with the laurels going to the Germans, but a strategic victory for the British with the laurels going to Jellicoe alone.
Beatty was fortunate not to have been shot for his part.
...
A fantastic video by the way.
Quality wins the battle, quantity wins the war.
didnt Beatty receive an iron cross for his service?
German navy dealt double the casualties in terms of sailors and tonnage. I don't think it's a tactical draw by any means.
@@dorylaions 👍5:18 British lost 113,300 tons and 6,784 killed / German lost 62,300 tons and 3,039 killed.
@@user-tb6uj9hz6k And the British could afford those losses. The Germans couldn't.
That was AWESOME! Like what the history channel USED to be before it got overrun by aliens and reality TV.
Back in the late 1980s I knew an old boy who had fought at the battle of Jutland . What was it like I said. Well put it this way you know your day is not going well when there is this head splitting crash and you look down and the turret you were in is ten feet below you and the ship you and the turret were both on is no were to be seen!!! the rest of the time I was trying not to drown..
I like the way an american newspaper summed it up: the german fleet assaulted it's gaoler, but it's still in jail.
P.s. Yeah, Drach wouldn't miss that one.
yeah I wouldn’t call that a win if I was German
Germany didn't achieve it's objective. The British did. I like that analogy from the US paper.
@@USSAnimeNCC- The brits and the germans can split hairs till the sun dies, everybody else knows Jutland is a legendary stalemate. 😏😁
@@luisnunes2010 Stalemate favors the British. They ruled the waves before and after.
It's the same lesson that needs to be fixed in every high school history textbook that calls Hampton Roads 'inconclusive'. There was a prison riot in which several jailers were killed, but ultimately the prisoners were kept behind bars.
The fact that this battle took place in the day I was born (several decades before of course) makes me enjoy its history even more. Thanks for the great content Drach, cheers from Brazil!
I was born Armestice Day 1959 on the west coast of Jutland less than a hundred miles from where the battle took place.
Cheers from Denmark 🥂
I really enjoyed this trio of videos & finally have a broad understanding of the events of Jutland. The battle always seems to be mentioned in passing in documentaries of WW1 despite being the only major fleet dreadnought-dreadnought clash. I’m more into the merchant marine of the Edwardian era but many of these mighty battlecruiser & battleship names pop up when studying the passenger liners like the Olympic-Audacious mine incident so being able to place it all in a broader context was interesting, thank you.
I honestly like the idea of actually dividing the Battle in Hipper vs Beatty and Jellicoe vs Scheer since it definitely helps putting the arguments to rest about who won. FSG (of course with the help of faulty shells etc etc) definitely outclassed the british battle cruisers - mainly due to better leadership. The same definitely goes the other way round for Jellicoe vs Scheer.
I gotta give it to this dude. Just the right amount of enthusiasm, bemusement and sarcasm to let you know you’re really learning. Good show!
Once again an outstanding quality video. It never ceases to amaze me that Beatty wasn't instantly demoted after the battle, along with his utterly incompetent signals officer.
Congratulations Drachinifel on an outstanding three-part documentary on Jutland.
Just finished the third installment - a truly magnificent effort about a highly complicated series of engagements. The number of missed opportunities, failures to communicate and instances of sheer good - or bad - luck is staggering. It's a pity Beatty wasn't a more responsible officer, and that he escaped punishment for incompetence and insubordination after the fact. The British people and the Royal Navy deserved better.
"...Results in the ship briefly becoming a giant pipe-bomb..."
Briefly. Very Briefly. Thereafter becoming 1) a fireball, 2) confetti, and very quickly, 3) a soothing rain of metal chunks for the fish to live in
The outcome of the Battle of Jutland from today's perspective is easy to see. The impressive German navy, after the Battle of Jutland, were even more tightly locked into their home waters without freedom of movement after the Battle of Jutland than they were prior to it. This is a case of a small tactical win against a huge strategic loss for the German Navy. -- "The prisoner has assaulted his jailer but is still in jail!" -- Synopsis in a nutshell.
This documentary was an excellent conclusion to the prior 2 videos which I viewed three times each. Thoroughly enjoyed the narrative and historical photos.
Having read the detailed versions of the Battle of Jutland several dozen times through multiple sources, made hearing and seeing this trilogy a very relaxing slice of strategic history. Keep up the fine documentary work, it's appreciated. Putting a fine point on the roles of the naval leaders on both sides is a constructive addition which is often overlooked in the detailed reporting that was included in reports of the collective actions.
The real mystery is that Scheer seems to have been incapable of devising an alternative strategy which would at least enable his surface fleet to make some sort of relevant contribution to the German war effort. Popping briefly out of port twice, then running home rather than risking a meaningful engagement doesn't really amount to much. How about a raid on the Channel, protected in the main by pre-dreadnoughts, or an attack on the cruisers & destroyers of the Harwich Force, or even a strike by a fast battlecruiser/light cruiser force on the auxiliaries policing the blockade? Sitting comfortably in the Jade estuary, while telling the All Highest that the fleet must not be risked again and that the only answer was unrestricted submarine warfare, wasn't really a credible attitude.
I wonder how Scheer explained the result of his master plan, the entry of the US into the war on the Allied side, to Paul von Hindenburg? Perhaps, echoing the wise words of Britain's greatest military strategist, Captain George Mainwaring, 'typical shabby American trick!'
@@dovetonsturdee7033 the German navy was roundly mocked and derided post war for this very reason. The Germans had nothing to lose really. Fleet in being is largely pointless when there's only one big front that Britain's fighting in-the North sea.
Germany should have went balls to wall in the early weeks of war and caused as much chaos as they could
These group of three videos, a most comprehensive explanation of Jutland I have yet had. Thank you
In other words, when considering the commanders, Beatty was absolutely useless due to his appalling communications to his superior whom he was supposed to be scouting for and his terrible handling of his subordinate commanders and for the awful shell handling practices in his force; Hipper did well to thoroughly beat Beatty and kept Scheer reasonably well apprised of what was going on; Jellicoe had a fantastic battle as he caught his opponent out badly despite the awful scouting commander he had and the bad shell performance etc, only not completing a crushing victory due to Scheer's brilliant handling of his fleet; Scheer had a pretty good battle because despite ending up in an awful pickle twice he managed to extract his forces from the well sprung trap of Jellicoe.
Beatty is the commander who had by far the worst performance of the independent commanders (independent before the Grand Fleet turned up). Based on his performance in that battle he was unsuited for high command and should never have been in command of the Battlecruiser Force, let alone been further promoted. However there was a commander who had a worse day than Beatty: Arbuthnot.
Beatty should have faced a court martial or derliiction of duty - namely his wilful negligence in communicating his status to his senior officer (Jellicoe). Had Beatty actually done his job, I suspect that the damage to the HSF would have been much greater.
@@alanhughes6753 That would seem to apply just as strongly to the Battle of Dogger Bank as well. So Beatty survived two actions that should at the least have seen him beached. The combination should have seen an even greater response.
That does not say positive things about the British political situation or the Admiralty of the time.
True, but 'De mortuis nihil nisi bonum.'
Technically Vice-Admiral Hood also had a very bad day - goes in to save an incompetent higher-up when he gets in a mess, promptly gets shot up when said higher-up turns round leaving him against the enemy, and then his ship blows up underneath him. This isn't to say Hood was bad, he just had absolutely terrible luck.
Previously on Jutland...
Admiral Arbuthnot: “Beatty and his Battlecruiser Boys are all the same! To think he and that decrepit old man at the Admiralty Fisher, had the nerve to call, not only my own ship the Defence obsolete, but all armored-cruisers! Ridiculous!”
Defence Officer 1: “Admiral, German Light cruisers ahead! But wait... there are also Battlecru...”
Admiral Arbuthnot: “Enough! Attack the cruisers!”
Defense Officer 1: “Admiral... uh First Battlecruiser Squadron is right on us!!”
Admiral Arbuthnot: “Out of my way HMS Lion! Defence, what we lack in armour and “tactics” can easily be made good with a little extra courage and cordite! Let’s show them all what a British Armoured Cruiser can do in the line of Battle!!”
German Panzerkreuzer: “Boom! Boom!!”
(HMS Defence catastrophically explodes)
German Lützow Officer 1: (Marks Battleship-Bingo Card) “Zhat’s a Bingo! I mean Bingo.”
German Lützow Officer 2: “That square says ‘Battlecruiser Explosion, not Armoured Cruiser Explosion!’ It doesn’t count. You don’t win yet!”
---------
Admiral Jellicoe: “But I’m the only man who could possibly lose the entire war in a single afternoon!”
CVS Pharmacy: “We’re sorry to hear that, but Mr. Jellicoe, it’s still too soon to refill your Xanax...”
---------
Admiral Scheer: “How many English Battleships are
even out there presently?”
German Officer: (scans left to right with binoculars) “Let’s zee.... vell... ALL OF THEM
Admiral Scheer: Naturlich.. vhat difficultly setting have you put it on?!”
---------
Admiral Hood: “Excellent shooting! I’m certain that by day’s end, we’ll have put Lützow on the bottom!”
British Officer: “Admiral, we are taking heavy fire!”
Admiral Hood: “Relax my good man, they’ve not named this ship the Invincible for nothing! I highly doubt that my name Hood will ever be associated with some kind of massive, magazine explosion...
(HMS Invincible’s amidships magazine detonates, breaking the ship in half)
German Lützow Officer 1: “Herr Admiral! I report, we have sunk the Warspite, again.”
Admiral Hipper: “Sehr gut.”
_____________________
Meanwhile in the Fünf Minuten Fleet later that night...
SMS Pommern Captain: “Would you like to hear a knock-knock joke?”
German Pommern Officer: Jawohl!
Captain: “Knock Knock!”
German Officer: “Who is there?”
Captain: “An English Battlecruiser...”
German Officer : “An English Battlecruiser who?”
(Pommern is torpedoed, catastrophically explodes)
Truly the perfect upload to spot while building a ship model!
Congrats Drach - this was awesome! Thank you for what I believe will be the definitive account of the battle on UA-cam. Thank you for letting me play a small role in it :)
I would just like to congratulate you on an excellent series. You have done a brilliant job of showing not only the grand strategy and high drama of the battle but also the bravery, confusion, incompetence and shear farce that is a perennial feature of warfare. And the guest appearances by so many fellow youtubers was unexpected but wonderful, how on earth did you mange it?
I'm kind of sad the "series" on Jutland is finished, the greatest clash of naval titans we have yet seen.
Leyte Gulf
*khm* Rome vs Carthage
Robert Frost More battleships fought at Jutland that at any other naval engagement in history. Perhaps Leyte has more ships overall, but no battle before or since had quite as many battleships as Jutland did.
@@wilkatis I don't think you can compare pre gunpowder wooden ships to iron and steel behemoths that hold upwards of 2k crew
@@crabbyguy2737 Yes, but Leyte - specifically Samar - has the unlikely duels between Johnston and every Japanese cruiser she could point a weapon at.
Dear Drach,
as always I enjoyed your approach to a complex topic.
The differences in consequences of the battle were quite convincing and entertaining again.
Do you intend to make a fourth part on the aftermath of the lives, carreers, battles and "felonies" of the four admirals, including for example the "faking of maps" by Beatty, showing "better" positions of his own ships for the sake of his own "glory"?
As far as I learned from a newer documentation on german TV, Beatty went after Jellicoe for the rest of his own life?!?
What is your position on that topic?
Nevertheless I thank you very much,
best regards,
Jan (-E.) Schmidt,
Lt. Cmd., German Naval Reserve
@Jan-Erik Schmitd And what the heck was Beatty's deal with asserting that Lion did not go in a circle (in the evening stage), while the logs of the rest of the BCs show it did. I've seen one source assert that he forged the Lion's logs.
Excellent trio of vids; the most detailed, well informed treatment of Jutland and most comprehensive analysis of the consequences and lessons learned, that I've seen.
Extraordinary summary, packed with details and documentation. I feel the comments i read failed to give adequate recognition to the immense effort expended. Excellent work!
Beautiful wrap-up to an amazing series, Uncle Drach.
(And thanks for the details about lyddite.)
It's striking to me that two of the decisive factors at Jutland can be seen as teething problems of the new paradigm of long-range gunnery. First being the battlecruisers exploding because they disregarded safe ammunition handling in an attempt to walk their shots, and second being the British shells detonating on impact, which presumably has something to do with increasing shell velocity.
These battleship engagements, in their heyday, were not a particularly mature art.
No, it was a metallurgic issue on the shells being too brittle and a chemical one with too-sensitive Liddite bursters. RN ammo was crap.
@@trauko1388 Well, yes the mechanism of the problem are that they used new materials which came with some kinks to work out. The reason they were using the new materials was to be able to shoot higher-velocity shells with great big bursting charges in order to knock holes in the armor and shred everything behind at 10 km.
@@sealpiercing8476 Keep in mind that the RN utterly failed at high velocity guns, that is the reason behind the move from 305mm to 343mm guns, failure to produce an accurate 305mm gun.
So in order to keep penetration power at range they were FORCED to use a heavier shell (meaning larger caliber) to maintain penetration instead of increasing velocity.
THE RN was a decrepit organization full of conservative minds and political appointees, and Jutland exposed that.
KM ammo was FAR more effective and had a delay fuse to boot.
"There seems to be something wrong with our ships today". One of my favorite Naval battles of all time! It's always good to secure your hatches, especially in a turret during battle!
Thanks for this trio, Drach. A great piece of work!
Congrats Drach, top quality as always, Jutland is a beast of a subject.
Always wonderful to hear your voice and conclusions.
This is very high quality information. I read a book just on the signals failure at Jutland that I did not see you reference, but you did summarize the signals lessons learned quite well.
Thank you so much for this fascinating documentary. Worth every second.
I imagine these affairs like a battle between entire cities on rollerskates.
The line combatants being High Rise buildings, each manned by more than an entire Artillery Battalion that dies, almost to a man, with it's skyscraper
I might be biased, I am a Patreon supporter. That disclosure given I think this series of videos on Jutland are the best researched, even handed and well presented of any films I have watched on the battle.
Very excellent background and analysis of a battle that has not been given its full credit. This has been an excellent three part series on it that I think that all of us have been eager to see.
06:50 ... Thus _confirming_ the effectiveness of the supernatural protection the greenstone necklace and Maori grass skirt afforded the ship, while worn in battle by a member of the crew.
I admire what you've done on your channel, Drach, but this series may be the best.
Because of the demands of propaganda the British couldn't do the right thing and relieve Beatty of command (but did they have to promote him?). The same thing that saved Halsey after his leaving Samar uncovered and running into two typhoons.
@Stuart Aaron - It should have taken place at the Battle of the Dogger Bank. But I am sure that Hipper ordered his ships to be sure that Beatty and Seymour were to be kept safe from harm ... they were worth at least two battle cruisers to the Germans.
@Stuart Aaron why waste a good ship to kill off a moron ?
just give Beattys mother some crab with pineaple and seasam seeds during pregnancy . Also - toss her of the London bridge for good mesuare :)
Thank you, this has been an excellent trio of episodes and most informative.
A thorough and insightful conclusion to a thrilling presentation. Now I am off to re-watch Drach's Texel simulation episode, with a fresh and more informed perspective.
Thank you for a very informative view of this battle, I'm not a navy man, I served in the British army, in fact I get seasick in a shallow puddle! But have nothing but respect for the men and women who serve now, and the mostly men who lost their lives in this and other engagements during both world wars on all sides just doing there duty as they saw it, I look forward to your next history lesson!
The more yu hear about him, how the hell did Beatty not get beached?
Politics. He was well connected politically
@@bigblue6917 That is an oft-repeated reason for barely competent people getting into the wrong position, both in peace and war, and across country borders and the centuries.
@@John.0z sonething all countries have in common
Makes me think of some current politicians! Inept, however they maintain their position through connections and money..
@@bartfoster1311 Admirals or politicians.
But keep in mind: If you keep an incompetent one in place, you at least don't run the risk of their replacement being even worse.
The devil you know...
Best Channel I've found in a long time. Thanks Drachinifel
This has been a really excellent absorbing series. Thank you.
It is interesting to consider the fact that shell failures already occurred back in the battle of Tsushima, only saved by punishing burning of Shimose charge and rather fragile nature of Russian pre dreadnaughts against such a destruction. In almost anytime people underestimated how powerful it could be
Thanks for a fascinating 3-part analysis of one of the greatest naval battles in history!🙏
I absolutely enjoyed the attention to detail to all three parts of this battle. Thank you for the history lesson and the entertainment!
Drach failed to mention that HMS New Zealand was magically protected and therefore only suffered superficial damage because of the Maori totems aboard.
Our current defense policy is summarised in our national anthem:
"God defend New Zealand"
Works out cheaper that way.
He mentioned it previously.
@@thomas316 Not pissing anybody off is a decent defence strategy. Leaves a lot more money for people to actually live their lives with too...
@@aaronfkckcjc6910 Until somebody decides you have something they want, doesn't care how they get it and you won't (or can't) give it to them.
Like a great lifestyle you mean?
Very surprised Beatty didn't receive an award for his conduct during the battle. You would think he should have received the Pour le Merite for saving the German High Seas Fleet, or at the very least an Iron Cross.
The irony is that, after the war, he proved to be an effective First Sea Lord.
Another excellent video, about a confusing and controversial battle. The research alone required for this must have been daunting. Thank you, Drachinifel.
Great vid Drach, thanks for the in-depth breakdown of the battle and outcome.
My birthday came early, Montemayor's videos on Midway was released this morning and now part 3 of Jutland. What great timing. Any chance of you covering the battle of Midway @Drachinifel
No. There was 2 Montemayer's videos on Midway - part 2 and one from the US POV :o - we have been spoilt today
@Jurassic Aviator Totally agree - it was worth the wait
I'm actually working on preparing scripts for my own video about Midway, including background and Aleutians campaign, etc.
Hang on... The public tossed coal and jeers at the Warspite?!!? Talk about a rough home crowd.
Geesh,,,,
In any country and any time. The public is an ass.
Since when has portions of the British public not descended into idiocy due to misleading or outright false news?
It's a lamentable habit we seem to fall back on.
They've always been tough audiences up North.
@@photoisca7386 "Tis grim up north"
@@theapostatejack8648 I would not limit that to the British.
i love that this channel exists, naval history is for some odd reason often neglected when wars are discussed
Thanks for the great series, really interesting. I stumbled on it today, but will start at the first part.
Th ratio of losses between combatants is not the ultimate measure of victory. The Allies took far more casualties than the Germans on D Day but there is no question as to which side won the engagement. Control on the north sea was the only goal of the battle. The British retained this critical control and won the battle. And then the war.
?????????
Tactical losses and operational successes are things guy
@@looinrims tell that to the Eastern Front or Vietnam. The ability to destroy more of the enemy than you lose is not a very effective measure of success.
What matters is how those casualties play into the greater scheme. The British lost more, but to no beneficial result to the Germans, so the battle itself was a draw at best. However a draw is the same as a loss to the side that needed to win that battle and the same as a win to the side that just needed to not lose the battle.
Can someone recommend a book about the German navy mutiny? Its impressive that they went from a major naval action to mutiny in such a short time. Thanks
Just think of it this way: people were sensible even if a few were suicidal.
Just watched the 3 videos of the Jutland series and learned a lot. Thank you for a fantastic piece of work.
Excellent and detailed series of videos on Jutland. Great work -- thanks very much.
I have to wonder why Jellicoe didn't leave his successor as 3SL a note that more or less read "Make sure the ammo gets fixed".
He probably did.... much like the yanks did with the bureau of ordinance in 41-42 they probably did nothing
At 35:00, Drachnifel mentions that night-fighting training was intensified in the RN after Jutland. It is notable that, as a consequence of this, only two fleets were trained in night-fighting at the outbreak of the Second World War - the Royal Navt, and the Imperial Japanese Navy. BTW, the latter always tended to model itself on the former.
Intensified? More like started... In WW2 the Germans started the war with radar-equipped ships, the RN didnt.
@@trauko1388 Still the British outpaced the Germans throughout the war. By the end of war, all the while fighting multiple nations fleets and all in vastly different theatres of engagement.
@@mkgaming5823 Yeah, the Germans were busy fighting the actual war...
Just awesome! What a great series. Well Done!!
Great 3 part series! Keep up the good work
Irresponsible politically skewed reporting on the part of the press. Imagine that.
Right, lol
Sounds like fake news to me.
Fun fact: when Franz Joseph died in 1916 the newspaper only published the headline, the rest of the article was left blank by the censors.
@@stanleyrogouski Except part of France was under occupation by Germany, Belgium was under occupation (and under a German puppet government) by Germany, and then there's the whole mess in the Balkans...
Plus, you're assuming that the press in 1914 were omniscient. What little information they could get would come from the very same governments they apparently couldn't trust at all.
At the end of the day,
Jerry wouldn't come out to play,
They'd much rather sit for dinner,
And so Tommy was declared the winner.
Great stuff Drach, thanks!!
Captivating, and your play by play, was very concise, and entertaining as well! Thank you for your indepth explanation, and highly educational to the novice military historian; such as myself!
Very interesting indeed. Thank you for this series.
Paraphrasing:
Captain of the Tiger smiled, saluted, returned to his ship and promptly did not obey the orders [to improve the rate of fire by removing safety measures].
On a completely unrelated note.
It was just announced that Edward "Teddy" Sheean, of the HMAS Armindale, was just awarded the VC!
I believe this man was discussed on a previous DryDock.
Respect.
A thoroughly merited, if disgracefully delayed, honour.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 Finally, nearly 80 years after the Valkyries carry him home, the governments honor him with the highest decoration at last.
Awesome Documentary, with great detail and excellent narration. Two thumbs all the way.
Absolutely fantastic series......well done sir!!