In other card games they called it Solitaire style decks (play with yourself) and interactive decks. Which sounds less whiney but means the exact same thing.
Hi Seth. You are missing the last kind of sideboard... Where you transform your deck from one kind of deck into another ..... i mean it completly shifts from one strategy to another.
Thank you so much for this video, Seth! I’m still relatively new to modern and this video really helped me to better understand the kinds of decks I may face.
I guess a good question would be options for fair decks to side board against unfair decks, and what options unfair decks can play to counter them. Also how to make sure you dont over sideboard, like if your play KCI you might have too much sideboard hate you cant pull off your combo.
What about transformation side? Is it fair? Unfair? It is at least troll! Do you know any modern or pauper deck with a good transformation side to play? It doesn't have to be t1...
In Pauper a good transformation deck could be Dimir Control, exchanging cards like pieces of the puzzle for Gurmag Anglers in game 2 when they side out removal and such. Same thing for Azorious control with Errant Ephemeron for example. For Modern as stated already, go check Magic Aids.
I like to play unfair. I'm used to vintage, where you have to play that way in order to win. Like Black Lotus to 3 Dark Rituals, then casting Ramos,Dragon Engine and comboing it with a Door to Nothingness by turn 2
Excellent video. By the way, any decks that have access to artifact and/or enchantment removal need to run some. No excuse unless you are in monoblack.
What about the one unfair deck that sideboards into a fair deck? I play titanshift, post board it's a fair gruul with trackers baloths and more sweepers
Does the topic of Sideboards need some updates and perhaps a take on doing it for Pioneer as well? I know there's so much "best of one" on Arena that it seems sideboards don't matter but it's a topic I've been looking into recently.
So the video is 13 minutes of saying that combo decks (unfair decks) want to achive their combo gameplan and controllier (fair) decks want to prevent others from doing it?
yeah, basically. combo (unfair) decks have this one vulnerability they need to protect at all costs, while regular (fair) decks cannot really be hosed easily EXCEPT by a dirty trick or combo, so they need to target all the possible combo vulnerabilities.
So would something like Tron be considered unfair whereas B/W/x control is fair? What would Scapeshift be? It seems like an unfair deck (just because of combo), but seems to be a mixed sideboard of answers to what opponents are doing along with grinding out value. Just curious. Thanks for the content!
The way I look at the differences between fair and unfair decks is fair decks spend multiple turns killing you while unfair decks usually try to win in a single turn. Mill and Tron are the only exceptions (that I can think of currently) as they are unfair in their win conditions (mill) or they just produce an unfair amount of mana (3 lands giving 7 mana).
Burn is mostly an unfair deck, but the sideboard cards it uses are unique. Since it's a bit slower than the fastest unfair decks it tends to use creature removal (Ensnaring Bridge, Path to Exile) as a way to facilitate their gameplan (by staying alive an extra turn or two). I also dedicates a lot of sideboard slots to beating things like Leyline of Sanctity and sometimes lifegain to support its combo kill.
So what I'm trying to figure out is is enchantress a fair deck? Because while you mainly combo out and win on just one turn, your also playing creatures and disrupting what your opponent is doing. Can any help me out?
It's hard to say without knowing the list, but if it's an Eidolon of Blossoms/Sigil/Starfield of Nyx type strategy it's likely a fair deck that is going to need to focus on beating unfair decks with its sideboard. If you're playing a more prison style enchantment deck (with things like the Solemnity lock and main deck Leyline of Sanctity) it could fall more on the unfair side though.
One thing that is not touched on that is relevant in modern is some unfair decks, counters company, sideboard hate spells/creatures for unfair decks. Post board the deck has a less likely chance of comboing off so it becomes the fair deck in the match up. There are other examples off this as well.
Where would something like zoo or burn fall on this? They are trying to execute their plan, but they still have to react to what's happening on board and don't really have sideboard hate the level that storm and kci do.
If you're talking small/revolt zoo or burn I'd say you are substantially on the unfair side of the spectrum (a little less so than say kci or storm though).
ben wurzel It's not a deck xD Seriously though, it would be an unfair deck. It doesn't care what the opponent is trying to do; it simply wants to get the lock in place as quickly as possible.
Death and Taxes is extremly fair, although in some ways its similar to Grixis Death's Shadow (being pre-sideboarded for unfair decks with Thalia and Ghost Quarters). While you'll still want to keep unfair deck in mind, you'll have a bit more flexibility with your sideboard slots than other fair decks.
I will preface this by saying I am a Death & Taxes player. Given the power level of D&T, I would say that Vial is a very fair card in that specific deck, compared to others such as Humans or Merfolk. It is the "principle" behind what the card does that people feel is unfair. Whenever someone cheats stuff into play, thereby violating the typical rules of the game, the other player feels a sense of inequity. In a deck with very lack luster creatures, albeit with powerful effects, the ability to utilize Vial makes up for the lack of power the archetype suffers from, when compared to other decks, such as Storm, Grishoalbrand, Bridge Vine, Dredge, or a plethora of others. I've had this argument with other players before, but they never seem to overcome the fact that my deck usually never wins before turn 4 or 5, even with a nut draw. Whereas, a storm player can easily kill me on turn 3, or 4 with a Thalia on the field. It is all a matter of perspective and understanding archetypes by comparison. Is the principle behind Vial, in general, fair? I'd say no, look at Merfolk/Humans as examples. Is Vial fair in D&T, when compared against other turn 3 decks? Very fair.
Skywarp2099 Death and Taxes without vial plays a very game, but with vial the deck cheats a little. I started with mono white taxes then moved to black white, vial with flickerwisp, arbiter, strangler, and even sculler are pretty unfair
This is a tricky question. It depends somewhat on the deck. If it's a lock deck then it is similar to a slow, unfair deck with the lock being the combo you're looking to support/protect.
MTGGoldfish I'd say that it's an unfair deck. While it does achieve the win slowly, the game is decided the moment it gets a "lock" piece on the field. There is a difference between when it wins and when the game is unwinnable for your opponent.
PalPlays I'd still say fair though because it trys to assemble a lock. These locks (especially in free win red) are highly interactive and are different depending on the opposing deck. Although they are doing "unfair" things like turning all your lands to mountains the fact that they are interacting with and reacting to their opponent makes them more of a "fair" control like deck
I think you missed the case of fair deck sideboarding against fair deck, which is to bring in more planeswalkers, more 2-for-1's, more value. Painful truths, Liliana the Last Hope, extra Jaces, K-command, etc. That's because when you're trading resources one for one, you want a card that will give you two or more resources for 1.
Is it GW Company or Counters Company? I think the latter is unfair, albeit that it is a me combo deck. GW Company is one of the most fair decks in Modern.
I do not play competitive magic anymore but do people get bashed for playing what is labelled as an unfair deck? I know in a tournament you as the player couldn't give a monkeys what your opponent thinks about the deck you are playing, but I just find the label fair/unfair as a way to undermine those that wish to play something other than midrange or control styled decks.
I guess Mill is kinda fair, not combo mill, you want to survive longer to mill your opponent whole deck with crypt incursion against creature heavy decks etc
I don't find combo decks unfair. They simply have a gameplan which interact very little with the opponent (unless it is more of a control-combo deck than a pure combo deck). Yes it is solitaire and doesn't involve the opponent the combo decks usually wins when it goes of. To me it mostly sound like a salty comment from people tired of playing against combo decks. However what I find more unfair is many of the "fair" decks answer to combo decks. They locked down hard on opponents play. Not a counter, removal or discard here or there but enchantments/artifacts which will alter the rules of the gameplay (like Stony Silence, Damping sphere, blood moon etc). Those cards is to me a lot more unfair because the heavily limited the other players ability to play magic. The combo player never denies the other player to play magic. The player simply sin't that involved.
I think prison would lean more towards the fair side with some slots dedicated to what hoses your deck. For example, lantern does nothing with a stony silence in play so there needs to be a way to remove it. Otherwise, that deck wants damping sphere to not die to storm.
I'd consider them "fair" simply because they are highly interactive so they board to try to stop their opponents game plan and not to bolster their own
combo is combo ramp is ramp midrange is midrange. unfair does not exists i realy don't like the fair/unfair thing basically people call unfair every deck except slow midrange decks slow midrange decks that are so strong today that you're forced to find alternative way to play best deck in the modern is humans, it's a midrange deck and it's the most unfair of the format
Why is it called "fair vs unfair"? The decks you so-call "unfair" are just faster decks that require more attention, but clearly fall of late game. It's simply "aggro / early combo".
The big divide between unfair and fair is actually sort of hard to see at first glance. Generally speaking unfair decks dedicate almost their entire deck to facilitating their gameplan and winning as quickly as possible, while fair decks typically dedicate a big chunk of their deck to interacting with the opponent and win at a more leisurely pace.
Wat. Fair v. unfair? SJW semantics. Try faster/more effective v. slower/less effective. That being said, yes, I'm sure a lot of us are bored to tears of all of these popular meta decks and want more ingenuitive ways to win but does that make them inherently unfair?
Andrew Bailey You're missing the point of the terminology. It's a matter of "I'm playing solitaire and don't care what you do" and "I'm playing a normal game of magic and I will react to your plays." It has nothing to do with meta. You can be playing mill and that is considered an unfair deck (no true interaction, only facilitating your wincon). It has literally nothing to do with Social Justice Warriors. In fact the term came into being looooong before that arose as an issue.
In this video, he's not saying "unfair" decks are inherently broken or unfun, or even saying that "unfair" combo decks shouldn't be around in magic. He is simply making a distinction that an "unfair" combo deck is just trying to do their thing with minimal interaction and you should keep that in mind when building a sideboard
Fantastic video. Real examples drive the point home, especially to people that have only heard this advice on passing.
I am just starting to get into modern and I had no idea that unfair decks side boarded that way, supper helpful video thanks seth.
In other card games they called it Solitaire style decks (play with yourself) and interactive decks. Which sounds less whiney but means the exact same thing.
Hi Seth. You are missing the last kind of sideboard... Where you transform your deck from one kind of deck into another ..... i mean it completly shifts from one strategy to another.
The Brewer's Minute videos are so helpful! Keep up the great work, Seth and Richard!
I have severely missed Brewers Minute
It's back!
MTGGoldfish hopefully to stay? I find these videos have a lot of value to learning the more subtle and difficult parts of the game.
This is by far THE BEST series of the channel, alongside with Budget Magic. Keep the good work, Seth!
Thanks! I'm hoping to have Brewer's Minute be more regular, it sort of fizzled off for a minute.
Thank you so much for this video, Seth! I’m still relatively new to modern and this video really helped me to better understand the kinds of decks I may face.
Brewers minute is such a great series. Thank you.
I guess a good question would be options for fair decks to side board against unfair decks, and what options unfair decks can play to counter them. Also how to make sure you dont over sideboard, like if your play KCI you might have too much sideboard hate you cant pull off your combo.
Seth Masters Future brewer's minute on sideboarding as a combo deck would be interesting. That applies to all formats all the time.
That poor Vengevine! What did it ever do to you! Besides kill you on turn 2/3?
RIP xD
Very useful video for starting players, thank you!
So for a deck like Death & Taxes which more-or-less puts most of these sideboard cards in the main deck, what do their sideboards look like?
Would you classify decks like U/R Kiln Fiend (Izzet Blitz) in pauper to be fair or unfair?
What about transformation side? Is it fair? Unfair? It is at least troll!
Do you know any modern or pauper deck with a good transformation side to play? It doesn't have to be t1...
Gabriel Mariz MtgAids is the king of transformational side boards 😂
Ell Hiro: I was literally just about to comment the same thing lol!
In Pauper a good transformation deck could be Dimir Control, exchanging cards like pieces of the puzzle for Gurmag Anglers in game 2 when they side out removal and such. Same thing for Azorious control with Errant Ephemeron for example. For Modern as stated already, go check Magic Aids.
Great video. I love your strategy videos. Please please more theory.
I like to play unfair. I'm used to vintage, where you have to play that way in order to win. Like Black Lotus to 3 Dark Rituals, then casting Ramos,Dragon Engine and comboing it with a Door to Nothingness by turn 2
Excellent video. By the way, any decks that have access to artifact and/or enchantment removal need to run some. No excuse unless you are in monoblack.
This was quite interesting and educational. How about doing something similar for standard as well?
Maybe after rotation, it's probably a bit late now, but I'll add it to the list.
This video is great. Do you think I should main Shapers Sanctuary for elves deck?
What about the one unfair deck that sideboards into a fair deck? I play titanshift, post board it's a fair gruul with trackers baloths and more sweepers
Does the topic of Sideboards need some updates and perhaps a take on doing it for Pioneer as well? I know there's so much "best of one" on Arena that it seems sideboards don't matter but it's a topic I've been looking into recently.
Pleasantly surprised when I watched. Not at all what I expected when I saw the title.
Thanks!
So the video is 13 minutes of saying that combo decks (unfair decks) want to achive their combo gameplan and controllier (fair) decks want to prevent others from doing it?
if you water it down to that point, yes
What more is there to it?
yeah, basically. combo (unfair) decks have this one vulnerability they need to protect at all costs, while regular (fair) decks cannot really be hosed easily EXCEPT by a dirty trick or combo, so they need to target all the possible combo vulnerabilities.
that's the takeaway but the video itself was showing different examples that i think were entertaining to watch
So would something like Tron be considered unfair whereas B/W/x control is fair? What would Scapeshift be? It seems like an unfair deck (just because of combo), but seems to be a mixed sideboard of answers to what opponents are doing along with grinding out value. Just curious. Thanks for the content!
The way I look at the differences between fair and unfair decks is fair decks spend multiple turns killing you while unfair decks usually try to win in a single turn.
Mill and Tron are the only exceptions (that I can think of currently) as they are unfair in their win conditions (mill) or they just produce an unfair amount of mana (3 lands giving 7 mana).
Oh, Dredge is an unfair deck (as most recursion strategies are) that spends multiple turns killing their opponent.
Kambal, Consul of Elecution? Haha amazing! The irony is delicious!
First time I've seen that zealous persecution art from explorers of ixalan. I need them now
Would you consider burn to be a fair or unfair deck?
Burn is mostly an unfair deck, but the sideboard cards it uses are unique. Since it's a bit slower than the fastest unfair decks it tends to use creature removal (Ensnaring Bridge, Path to Exile) as a way to facilitate their gameplan (by staying alive an extra turn or two). I also dedicates a lot of sideboard slots to beating things like Leyline of Sanctity and sometimes lifegain to support its combo kill.
What's up with the visuals, this video? Half of them extend off the screen and are cut off.
I had to do some zooming in to make it work, but the titles didn't line up as well as I would have liked.
I wish you could turn your thumbnails into playmats. There are definitely a couple I'd pick up in a heartbeat!
So what I'm trying to figure out is is enchantress a fair deck? Because while you mainly combo out and win on just one turn, your also playing creatures and disrupting what your opponent is doing. Can any help me out?
Sir EPICNESS What is the list?
It's hard to say without knowing the list, but if it's an Eidolon of Blossoms/Sigil/Starfield of Nyx type strategy it's likely a fair deck that is going to need to focus on beating unfair decks with its sideboard. If you're playing a more prison style enchantment deck (with things like the Solemnity lock and main deck Leyline of Sanctity) it could fall more on the unfair side though.
Very cool video, great next level thinking.... you have any cool standard decks with scapeshift in it coming up?... hint... hint
It's on my lise!
yay brewers minute is 13 minute what is this
Can you do a fully functional modern rooftop storm new liliana from m19 combo deck? It would be awesome!
Saffron be chugging that soylent.
So it is bad play unfair decks?
One thing that is not touched on that is relevant in modern is some unfair decks, counters company, sideboard hate spells/creatures for unfair decks. Post board the deck has a less likely chance of comboing off so it becomes the fair deck in the match up. There are other examples off this as well.
Where would something like zoo or burn fall on this? They are trying to execute their plan, but they still have to react to what's happening on board and don't really have sideboard hate the level that storm and kci do.
If you're talking small/revolt zoo or burn I'd say you are substantially on the unfair side of the spectrum (a little less so than say kci or storm though).
I’d say fair
Is affinity fair or unfair?
Max M It's fair.
Affinity is a fair deck, but it's also a fast fair deck.
So solemnity is an unfair deck correct?
ben wurzel It's not a deck xD
Seriously though, it would be an unfair deck. It doesn't care what the opponent is trying to do; it simply wants to get the lock in place as quickly as possible.
Lol making sure, just coming off of playing living end I'm gonna give a solemnity deck a try
Is Death&Taxes a fair Deck?
Gollum 2016 yes
Death and Taxes is extremly fair, although in some ways its similar to Grixis Death's Shadow (being pre-sideboarded for unfair decks with Thalia and Ghost Quarters). While you'll still want to keep unfair deck in mind, you'll have a bit more flexibility with your sideboard slots than other fair decks.
Very fair except for the vials 😂
I will preface this by saying I am a Death & Taxes player. Given the power level of D&T, I would say that Vial is a very fair card in that specific deck, compared to others such as Humans or Merfolk. It is the "principle" behind what the card does that people feel is unfair. Whenever someone cheats stuff into play, thereby violating the typical rules of the game, the other player feels a sense of inequity. In a deck with very lack luster creatures, albeit with powerful effects, the ability to utilize Vial makes up for the lack of power the archetype suffers from, when compared to other decks, such as Storm, Grishoalbrand, Bridge Vine, Dredge, or a plethora of others.
I've had this argument with other players before, but they never seem to overcome the fact that my deck usually never wins before turn 4 or 5, even with a nut draw. Whereas, a storm player can easily kill me on turn 3, or 4 with a Thalia on the field. It is all a matter of perspective and understanding archetypes by comparison. Is the principle behind Vial, in general, fair? I'd say no, look at Merfolk/Humans as examples. Is Vial fair in D&T, when compared against other turn 3 decks? Very fair.
Skywarp2099 Death and Taxes without vial plays a very game, but with vial the deck cheats a little. I started with mono white taxes then moved to black white, vial with flickerwisp, arbiter, strangler, and even sculler are pretty unfair
What about prison? Does it count as fair or unfair?
This is a tricky question. It depends somewhat on the deck. If it's a lock deck then it is similar to a slow, unfair deck with the lock being the combo you're looking to support/protect.
Why didn't you talked about your favorite... Tron
Is Free Win Red a fair deck or an unfair deck?
That's a weird one. I consider it fair, because it doesn't win very quickly, although it does have a lot of tools for unfair deck in the main.
MTGGoldfish I'd say that it's an unfair deck. While it does achieve the win slowly, the game is decided the moment it gets a "lock" piece on the field. There is a difference between when it wins and when the game is unwinnable for your opponent.
PalPlays I'd still say fair though because it trys to assemble a lock. These locks (especially in free win red) are highly interactive and are different depending on the opposing deck. Although they are doing "unfair" things like turning all your lands to mountains the fact that they are interacting with and reacting to their opponent makes them more of a "fair" control like deck
I think you missed the case of fair deck sideboarding against fair deck, which is to bring in more planeswalkers, more 2-for-1's, more value. Painful truths, Liliana the Last Hope, extra Jaces, K-command, etc. That's because when you're trading resources one for one, you want a card that will give you two or more resources for 1.
Is 8 wack considered fair? I'm not really sure.
clocktowers1 yes
Thanks for the help
I like hearing that I have "Fair" deck. #JustSelesnyaThings
Is it GW Company or Counters Company? I think the latter is unfair, albeit that it is a me combo deck. GW Company is one of the most fair decks in Modern.
I do not play competitive magic anymore but do people get bashed for playing what is labelled as an unfair deck? I know in a tournament you as the player couldn't give a monkeys what your opponent thinks about the deck you are playing, but I just find the label fair/unfair as a way to undermine those that wish to play something other than midrange or control styled decks.
I guess Mill is kinda fair, not combo mill, you want to survive longer to mill your opponent whole deck with crypt incursion against creature heavy decks etc
Thanks seth. Finally
I don't find combo decks unfair. They simply have a gameplan which interact very little with the opponent (unless it is more of a control-combo deck than a pure combo deck). Yes it is solitaire and doesn't involve the opponent the combo decks usually wins when it goes of. To me it mostly sound like a salty comment from people tired of playing against combo decks. However what I find more unfair is many of the "fair" decks answer to combo decks. They locked down hard on opponents play. Not a counter, removal or discard here or there but enchantments/artifacts which will alter the rules of the gameplay (like Stony Silence, Damping sphere, blood moon etc). Those cards is to me a lot more unfair because the heavily limited the other players ability to play magic. The combo player never denies the other player to play magic. The player simply sin't that involved.
I love these
Rename this to “Modern Sideboards: Good vs Bad”
In modern, fair means bad.
(This is a joke)
Good topic !
I know a guy who can't say "Liliana of the Veil". It sounds like "Leyline of the Void"... 😂😂😂
Unfair deck, best deck
Where do prison decks fall. They aren’t exactly “fair” decks but they try to slow down the game.
I think prison would lean more towards the fair side with some slots dedicated to what hoses your deck. For example, lantern does nothing with a stony silence in play so there needs to be a way to remove it. Otherwise, that deck wants damping sphere to not die to storm.
I'd consider them "fair" simply because they are highly interactive so they board to try to stop their opponents game plan and not to bolster their own
combo is combo ramp is ramp midrange is midrange. unfair does not exists
i realy don't like the fair/unfair thing
basically people call unfair every deck except slow midrange decks
slow midrange decks that are so strong today that you're forced to find alternative way to play
best deck in the modern is humans, it's a midrange deck and it's the most unfair of the format
Too fair
fair enough! :D
AlloCUSION
sidebo...
Woo! First!
Seth Masters nope
Why is it called "fair vs unfair"? The decks you so-call "unfair" are just faster decks that require more attention, but clearly fall of late game. It's simply "aggro / early combo".
The big divide between unfair and fair is actually sort of hard to see at first glance. Generally speaking unfair decks dedicate almost their entire deck to facilitating their gameplan and winning as quickly as possible, while fair decks typically dedicate a big chunk of their deck to interacting with the opponent and win at a more leisurely pace.
Non interactive vs interactive. Calling it unfair makes you sound like a child.
I prefer this. Unfair just doesn't sound right.
Wat. Fair v. unfair? SJW semantics. Try faster/more effective v. slower/less effective. That being said, yes, I'm sure a lot of us are bored to tears of all of these popular meta decks and want more ingenuitive ways to win but does that make them inherently unfair?
Andrew Bailey You're missing the point of the terminology. It's a matter of "I'm playing solitaire and don't care what you do" and "I'm playing a normal game of magic and I will react to your plays." It has nothing to do with meta. You can be playing mill and that is considered an unfair deck (no true interaction, only facilitating your wincon).
It has literally nothing to do with Social Justice Warriors. In fact the term came into being looooong before that arose as an issue.
In this video, he's not saying "unfair" decks are inherently broken or unfun, or even saying that "unfair" combo decks shouldn't be around in magic. He is simply making a distinction that an "unfair" combo deck is just trying to do their thing with minimal interaction and you should keep that in mind when building a sideboard
I really hope you understand the irony of incorrectly whining about 'SJWs'.
Scotts Barbarossa Logic ya, op clearly has no clue what it means for a deck to be "unfair"
It's putting a label to a sentiment. And I'm puzzled as to how you think #1 I'm whining and #2 this fair vs. unfair argument isn't.
I would label the unfairs sideboard the counteraction to the counteraction of the opponents sideboard
Is control fair or unfair?
Adam Cortland fair