The SC - PreSonus CDL Log: The Comparison!
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- Опубліковано 10 лип 2024
- The Sound Couple shares their thoughts and opinions on the new CDL10P and Sub18 speaker based on their experience so far! In addition, we do some comparison testing with real instruments to give you a better feel for how the CDL10P compares to the CDL12!
The Sound Couple primarily use PreSonus gear featuring:
PreSonus UC Surface
PreSonus CDL12
PreSonus CDL18s
PreSonus 32R
PreSonus SW5E
PreSonus NSB Stageboxes
PreSonus AVB-D16
Please see our "About" for a more comprehensive list of gear we use.
0:00 Intro
1:01 Thoughts/Opinions
6:17 DSP Comparison
9:52 Bass Guitar
11:01 Acoustic Guitar
12:16 Electric Guitar
14:05 Keys
15:08 Vocals
17:51 CDL10P/Sub18 - CDL12/18s head to head
21:08 Closing thoughts
We appreciate this thoughtful analysis. Putting such new equipment through its paces has truly great value. Thanks for sharing your analysis with us.
You're welcome Dean! This was a fun one to make!
Wow Bart, it was nice to hear you play instruments and sing! It was nice to hear you compare. The cdl10 sounds a little tighter(you had them set in 2box mode) but I love my cdl12p’s.
Thanks! Yes, we went a little deep to help with the message. It would be nice to hear from the CDL12P owners out there what their experiences are!
Nice work Bart. Great to hear stuff rather than just talk about it. The bass/vocal thing is about the left side right side of your brain. Lots of folk can’t play and sing at the same time but those of us who can are the better for it. Cheers from the land down under
Thank you for your comments Scott!
Absolutely love my CDL10P speakers. Ordering a 2nd pair in a month or so.
The CDL speakers are on sale now!
Do you use these for live music?
Thank you very much for this video. I first listened to this video on the television and i thought the CDL10P sounded better, but now with in ear in I hear and feel the bass of the CDL12 more. The CDL10 is beautiful and the price difference is Definitely worth considering. >I miss stacy in the video 😅Bart compliments for playing and singing. you can now have a one-band show yourself😃
Greetings from the Netherlands
Greetings! Thank you for your comments! Stacy was around...but she said she had more important things to do!
Many thanks Bart for spending the time to set up & run this demo. Whilst it's difficult to hear the precise differences between the boxes via the little speakers in my desktop PC, the tone and output variation in the CDL10's between the 1 & 2 box settings were quite noticeable. These boxes have the same amps, SPL, coverage angles and Xover points, Hz range and amazingly the same voice coils. So, the difference comes down to 1) loss of "network control", 2) 25% lighters in weight, 3) size 15~18% smaller, 4) different build materials & 5) the smaller LF driver & 2 less HF drivers - but as these are designed from smaller groups, smaller venues & possibly leaning to the DJ market, a great option. Do you think PreSonus will introduce a 15" sub to pair with the CDL10's? (for all the same reasons & as a smaller unit easier for a DJ to load)?
Thank you for sharing your technical insights as it's interesting to break apart or think about what others, including the engineers, may not have thought of. I think your suggestion for a 15" sub is actually a good one. I do find it interesting that the Sub 18 is larger than our 18s which sort of counters offering a smaller cabinet in the 10P. We do like the portability of the 18s, but the Sub 18 seems to have more output. A 15" sub may be more in-line with the requirement of a buyer considering the 10P.
@@thesoundcoupleA 15" sub would also be my preferred choice for the 10Ps.
It's a half/half thing now:
Smaller and lighter tops but still a heavy and big sub that takes more space in the van than the old sub (according to you Bart).
It just doesn't make total sense to me when thinking in the "smaller format" concept.
Thanks Bart. Compliments. I downloaded the video in MP3 and listened to everything in my live system (Verse brand, 4 x 15 satellites and 4 x 18 subs). You Tube compression can be heard and the Mp3 sound is penalized. I used a 24 track Presonus mixer. Both are two good Satellites. The 10 enhances the medium frequencies of the voice, 300 - 2500 Hz. Instruments prefer the 12 inch. Wooden speakers return the best frequencies. The final result will depend on the sound engineer. For the more imaginative I suggest a mixed system pairing 10 with 12 even if it doesn't make much sense. Good work and warm greetings from Gorizia, Italy.
Thank you Paolo for taking the time for more analysis. I tried hard to capture what I was hearing. At the end of the day, I am still prefer a wood cabinet.....I feel more connected to it like I would with an instrument.
To my ears, the CDL10P sounds better by far. Especially they seem fuller in the midrange where the CDL12s sounds a bit scooped. I rather have the fuller sound with the option to dip with EQ compared to using addidative EQ to compensate for the lack of mids.
I honestly liked the sound of the recorded music better on the CDL10P, especially with the sub. I liked the electric guitar and keys better on the CDL12, and the vocals were a tie. It is interesting how each cabinet reproduced the sound of each instrument.
Yes the 10s are clearer in the mids. The crossover to the tweeter is probably quite high because of the tiny tweeters in the array, the 10" driver can handle those high mids better than the larger 12, thus the scooped sound. So for the Soundcouple, they should replace their 12s with 10s provided there's enough SPL.
Your logic makes sense, but for now, we are sticking with our CDL 12's as our primary speakers!@@StirfriedGerman
@@thesoundcouple Just trying to save your backs ! But the 12s look nicer in pairs with dual 18s and the slider ! Very unique !
what a pleasant surprise a singer and bassist,,,
Wonderful ,,,,
What I noticed is that the 10-inch one engages more in the frequency ranges and the 12-inch one goes down more in the low frequencies!
congratulations !
I agree with your assessment....and I am a recovering musician and very rusty at that!
kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
Here first, and Bart I’m impressed
Appreciate that! This video kind of took us into related, but uncharted territory!
Goodmorning Bart and Stacey, my choice. DSP one speaker mode cdl 10 p, sounds warmer, DSP 2 box mode, CDL 10 p, sounds warmer, Bassguitar, Both speakers sounds great, Acoustic guitar CDL 10 p, sounds warmer, Elektric guitar, both sounds great, Keyboards, CDl 10 p, sounds warmer, vocals with out subs, Both sounds great, Vocals with subs, CDL 12.
listen to the vidoe via a focusrite Clarett and DT 770 pro headphone. Watch you video's all the time. Thank you for them. Regards from the Netherlands
Wow! We really appreciate you all taking the time to listen....and go deep! I believe we captured the characteristics speakers pretty well in our testing.
The CDL 18 sub has a much deeper bass and this can be heard in the video. Very good review we appreciate :-)
I've been looking at this sub but really haven't seen any reviews on it. Do you have first hand experience or maybe The Sound Couple could speak on them? If so, how comparable is it to say QSC KS118s or EV ETX 18sp for small, medium DJ applications (weddings, private events)?
It would be neat to be able to do some comparisons...that's what music stores used to be for...but even that wasn't always great. We had an opportunity through a local dealer to "try" the CDL's before we bought them. We have never had an opportunity to do that before, but it was the awesome! As things just get bigger and more expensive..companies do things to save money, etc. and there aren't so many local dealers around. I don't think you can put a price on that "guy" who had some CDL's for us to try...I wish it was more common.
@@thesoundcouple I completely understand and that's where I'm struggling to draw comparisons. In my area I do not know of any dealers or fellow sound pros that have CDLs to demo. I appreciate your videos and awareness of this line and will continue to watch!
Just ordered the CDL12p and the subs as a package. I hope they sounds as good as the 12s in your video. I was told they are awesome. Not crazy about the plastic cabs. First for me. 🤞
Good luck...please update us once you have a chance to use them!
The plastic cabs are insanely thick and heavy! Absolutely nothing like the cheap look and feel of my Mackies or Altos!
Well done Sir! The portability of a smaller/lighter box is a great value to me. I always use subs. The concern is large/outdoor venues. Is the smaller enough? I understand doubling them but will the smaller box throw (Hit the back wall) as well as the larger?
That's a good question - I think 2 of them will throw about the same, but likely without the same presence.
@@thesoundcoupleI will find out in August! Will have 2 pairs of CDL10P before then (ordering the 2nd pair in a month or so). The single CDL10P was an absolute hit at the indoor reverberant room we played in a couple months ago. So much more clarity, and vocals were superb!
I have the CDL12P. They sound great. The only downside is the early clipping issue (Also reported by other users). Because this model does not have and input/gain control separate from the Master Volume like other powered speakers, aside from less power. Meaning, even if you put the volume at mute/lowest position this will still clip since volume does not affect its input gain. We have to tweak our system in order to make it work properly: 1. Separate crossover from my mixer at least 100kh or more; 2. Mixer Master volume at least -10. It's a bit of a hassle. But with its price comparing to others, I am forced to live with it.
Hmmm...we just don't experience the issue to a degree to really be concerned about it or change our way of mixing. The light comes on very conservatively and we find plenty of headroom after that. You will hear the cabinet breaking up it if it really is clipping and we never experienced that.
First of all:
I listened to this on my own speakers thru my Marantz amplifier but with the sound limitations of UA-cam and all that... You get the general idea of what they sound like but I am sure it doesn't do any of them any justice.
Which brings me to my conclusion:
The CDL Sub kicks ass and would be my preferred choice! Man, that thing has some serious low end oomph! Or balls.
Besides that I would choose the CDL12s if I had to pick one. The sound they have is the sound I prefer for live sound applications.
Not that the 10Ps are bad but I just like 12s better.
It would be nice to compare the 12s to the 12Ps to see if they are a more budget friendly option to the 12s.
And to be honest:
I wish you would have tested the 10Ps in one-box mode. Just because it made me wonder what that difference would be to the 12s.
Thanks for your feedback....to manage the time of the video, I had to choose a setting and weighed the pros and cons, but with that, I made sure I explained/demonstrated my rationale. My ultimate reason for my choice is based on our principle that we share how we use our gear and at this time, the 2 speaker mode seems to be our preferred setting.
@thesoundcouple Bart, I understand your considerations completely and you have my respect for those considerations.
But I hope you also understand my curiosity for what the one box setting would sound like.
Besides that we also have another point that shouldn't be ignored:
Difference in preferred sound (how a system sounds) between Europe and the USA.
Because I remember a time when you guys in the US really liked several JBL and Electro Voice cabinets that we in Europe found really harsh and shrill sounding.
For a 3 piece rock band would there be enough volume for 300 people outdoors with one box and sub per side? thanks so much for what you guys do?
To "cover" 300 people? This probably would not be enough, but it depends on expectations and how much SPL you need. 300 hundred people would hear it, but outdoors typically takes it up another level that pushes the limits of any system. Our goal outdoors is to provide enough system does not place us out of the gate at the the top of our limits...you want some headroom so you are not abusing the system Again...expectations are critical...outdoor on a dinner patio for $300 diners? Sure...these would get the job done. Street dance or concert where they are there primarily for the band? probably not.
Does the cdl 10p clip early as well? Inhabe a pair of thr 12P
Think of the clip as entering the warning zone....we have never had an issue hearing any clipping. I can't answer why it's this way, but that's the way they designed it and I can only assume that PreSonus does not see it as an issue.
Big respect on your musician skills 👍🏻 But I don’t know honestly how useful this garage test is… most modern PA speaker sound good at low volume. It starts getting interesting when you push them. How much SPL you get on a real gig… how do they sound when you push them to the limit.
Hmmmm....I would say the CDL's are here to challenge your experiences then. We have put our CDL's through a lot, from an intimate wedding ceremony to chaos at a campground and they sound good at any level. So far, we are seeing the same character within the CDL10's. Thanks for musical props...it's been awhile for sure!
I to think the 10's sounded better, but that could be the size room you were in. then again, UA-cam audio play back isn't always great. I have EV EKX-15P tops and EKX Subs that I use in my "open" pool area at home, and I like the sound a lot. But if I use them in a smaller "Pub" setting, I just can't get the same sound quality out of them. Then again keep up the good work. You surprised me when you played all those different instruments.
LOL...I surprised myself as I was making it up as I went and wasn't sure where I was going to stop! In this test, I found I did like the sound of the CDL10P's with the recorded music, but liked the CDL12's better for the instruments. I was really surprised with the results...no concerns, just interesting to hear how each cabinet sounded alone.
The winner is definitely Bart, in this SC got talent show.
I originally thought CDL10P would got a harsher sound, but it got a bit muddy.
Will it be matter that the CDL12 have been run for years but CDL10P is still not warm up yet.
Interesting perspective...thanks for sharing!
11:00 - I can hear a difference... the sound of the bass from CDL10P is more tinny/shiny (thin) with the low end in the background... as for the CDL12 - it's more well-rounded/beefer/thicker/fatter...
Good to know....I am glad I was able to reproduce what I was hearing!
Listening with headphones, I prefer the 10p's over the 12p's, when the 10's were in mode 1 during the first demo. When the 10's were switched to mode 2, then they sounded like the 12's. One thing I will mention based on my experience with basically working with every cabinet manufacture there is, when you're dealing with poly cabinets verses a high grade 9 ply wood cabinet, when you get to "gig" volume level the poly's have a tendency to generate more partial frequencies, and start to get flabby? sounding, especially in the bottom end, where the wood cabinets maintain a more tighter sound. Since I've retired from the audio business, but still have a weekend band for the fun of it, I use the RCF's Evox series simply because of the small footprint. I also have Ev's and QSC's, but based on what we do the RCF's get the nod 90% of the time. As I said being an audio guy myself for 40 odd years, I really enjoy your videos. I can definitely relate to what you go thru on gigs. Thanks.
Appreciate your insights and comments!
These poly cabs are like nothing I've ever seen before though. Crazy thick and heavy!
Bart you rock!! Good vidéo. I have the presonus 32r. Now I need 4 cdl10 and 4 sub 😂😂
Oh no...an old friend of mine referred that to..."feeding the monster"! Yep, we can relate!
@@thesoundcouple
I think you mean G.A S.?
Yes, that too!@@Richard1977
@@thesoundcoupleFor me it's a circle:
You get G.A.S., feed that monster, feel satisfied for a day (or two), get G.A.S. again and so on until you are
A) broke
Or
B) going into rehab
Which of course doesn't give any guarantees for the future.
Recovering myself on a daily basis...
All jokes aside: I do have my weak moments but don't we all. As long as you know what triggers it for you.
Amazon doesn't help either...but they have the stuff you need and it's 'easy!@@Richard1977
The CDL10P sounded far nicer in 2 box mode in my view; was a little boxy sounding, and I think at high volumes would have sounded a little honky too. When playing acoustic guitar, I felt the CDL10Ps sounded a little more crisp than the CDL12, which I preferred. The vocals were superb on both.
From my standpoint, I want a speaker that projects really well in the vocal ranges. It's one of the reasons I moved from EV to Martin Audio. Not that there was anything wrong with the EVs, I just preferred the Martin's. Given your demo, I'm confident I would enjoy working with the CDL12 or the CDL10P.
When I moved from EV to Martin, I went from 12" tops over 18" subs, to 10" tops over 15" subs. Although the system is a little smaller, its louder, cleaner and far more punchy. I do have my next upgrade in my crosshairs; I'll be moving to a Constant Curvature system, and the drivers in those are 8". Something that amazes me with gear today is the fact much of it is getting smaller, yet what they deliver is phenomenal.
Thank you for your thoughts on this..and for sharing your gear. We agree that speakers have a come a long ways in design and efficiency....we used to have cabinets that weighed 175 lbs each just for the mains...and oh yeah, and there was the amp rack too!
@@thesoundcouple Powered cabinets have come a long way, that's for sure. When I weigh up the passives vs. actives pro's and con's, passive speakers always come out on top for me though.
Hi SC just would like to know..... using CDL10P with "Single 18' or two 18" per side with 2x 10p on top for band...would you go cdl12 or swop for 10p? (for big gigs & outside venues as well)
I'm use to carrying subs with always.
Regards from South Africa
Hi Freddy - If I am understanding your question, I would say that 2 CDL10P's would deliver more output than 1 CDL12.
@@thesoundcouple would you swop out your cdl12 with the cdl10p's for open air gigs = your 4x 18 subs with 4x cdl10p?
I think so? I can only say that in theory.@@freddieq7571
I thought the CDL12s really had a better midrange and higher range than the CDL10s right from the bass onwards. But what's the price difference?
The CDL10's are $800 - Just noticed that Sweetwater has a nice price on CDL12's @ $1599
Do the 10's stack on the 12's?
Nope!
Do the 10's fit onto the 12's?
No they don't...the speakers are not the same size.
I didn't realize I posted twice ha! That seems like an oversight on Presonus' side. Would have made sense to me to make the cabinet the same width so you could pair them with the 12's if you wanted too.
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ขอบคุณ.....thailand
Bart Can Sing !
Being that "Sound guy" that has the background of being in a band can have it's definite advantages - thanks for the compliment!
I wish you could compare the Cdl12p to the cdl12p….
Agreed...that would be really nice. So with that, I realized that both cabinets sounded good in their own way and thought it was interesting how each instrument sounded. In some tests, I preferred the CDL10P's and others the CDL12's.
@@thesoundcouple truth enough, I can’t wait till you post a video using the CDL10’s….you were totally right it depends on the situation. For a smaller gig I would love the CDL10s but for outdoors or bigger venues I would like CDL12p. One thing I love about the CDL12 is when mixing a full band the keys don’t get lost in the mix and I love a good drum mix so imo the Toms stick out better.
On the clipping issue:
ua-cam.com/video/nu4F7nKOUaE/v-deo.htmlsi=55C039ASUMsbSFlR
Interesting...when our CDL clip lights flash, we are hitting them pretty hard, but we have never heard the cabinets distort or break up. We think of it as an indicator that you are approaching that territory. As we confirmed with PreSonus, the light is very conservative. That was their design choice and understand the concern by users, but for us, it's much to do about nothing really. We just use them...but don't beat them!
@thesoundcouple Hi Bart,
For some it is really a concern and even a reason not to buy them. If I was Presonus, I would pay some serious attention to resolving the issue as it impacts user experience and thus sales.
Did you also see the bit about the speaker stand flanges? Maybe something for you to investigate on your CDLs.
Hope you guys upload a new video soon!