Ralph ditore , both Bloke and Othias do a wonderful job and have completely different intention. Othias is a wonderful historian with a smattering of shooting for function. Bloke's approach is a wonderful shooting functionality with a smattering of history. Since I shoot all mine enought to where I am interested in the history, I need to watch both of em.
Oisin Creaner Nikolas Lloyd : pfhh you call that long?? (yeah I know, he ain't a gun guy, but he is the most infamous long video producer on youtube with no cuts, he wins Sam Mendes).
A couple of years ago I had the pleasure of meeting a former Home Guard Sergeant who was in the same platoon as my grandfather (both were in reserved occupations) and like every other Home Guardsman I've spoken to, he loved the P14. Interestingly after the war they were given the opportunity to purchase these weapons for the princely sum of £10, and he took up the offer and continued to shoot his P14 at the local rifle range until old age caught up with him.
@@TH3PLA1NP1L0T "P17" was an informal term never used by the U. S. military. The official designation was Rifle, M1917. Regardless of what you call it, however, it's a really nice rifle. I have two, both of which will shoot rings around my M1903 and M1903A3. For whatever reason, it just drops into a perfect alignment when I shoulder it and the sights are really excellent compared to the '03. Someday I hope to shoot a P14 in .303 caliber .
The American version in .30-06 Calibre made by Eddystone is scary accurate, functions well after immersion in mud and in my opinion probably the best battle rifle of World War I. Not an accident it was what Alvin York was shooting when he won his Congressional Medal of Honor in World War I. Performed spectacularly in the Phillipines at the beginning of World War II also.
The main lesson from this should be: " if you've got half a million rifles you don't use, stick them in a warehouse, don't scrap them because you never know"
I took my P14 to the range last weekend. It’s a pleasure to shoot and at 200 yds very accurate, I agree about the sight picture. Way ahead of its time.
A week ago, I found an M1917 in a pawn shop. It was sporterized, and had the rearsight replaced with a metal strap with a couple of holes in it. I died a little on the inside.
The M1917 was very popular for sporterizing after the Great War because of its extremely strong action. Professional gunsmiths even built big/dangerous game rifles on the '17. Unfortunately, because they were cheap, Bubba did a lot of work on them as well.
Rear sight replaced or the metal strap welded on? Because they make a rail system that just screws in where the ladder goes. The rear sights are incredibly abundant. I found a P14 with a sporter stock and totally restored it to its WW1 configuration with all matching E stamped parts.
@@shockwave6213 Super late on the reply, but to the best of my memory, it was a literal strip of metal screwed to the top of the wrist of the stock and bent up where a hole drilled in the metal could serve as an aperture sight. It was the most jacked-up, jury rigged thing I’ve ever seen, and I’ve seen jail trustees instal emergency lights on a patrol vehicle. 😅
When Pershing's gang of US soldiers joined the trenches in 1918, they were armed with M1917 (P-14s chambered in 30'06 and Sgt. York used one to kill 11 enemy soldiers and take 37 prisoner at "something wood" battle .
I love your bashing of the rim jam myth. I’m still working on getting my first lee in 303 but I love how people who bash me to death with the “it rim jams” myth have either never fired a rifle chambered in a rimmed cartridge, or have only had experience with mosin nagants.
Wyatt Stinchield not hating on the mosin, mainly the people who feel the mosin is a perfect rifle. It’s not perfect by any stretch. It’s a highly flawed rifle with a major flaw in its design. If they had removed the central rib to the bolt that rifle would be SO much better.
Timothy Soen agreed. I think in the ten years I’ve owned my 91/30 I think I’ve had one jam that was a rim jam. Everything else is just mosins being mosins. Still prefer an enfield or a krag to a mosin for rimmed ammo
@@Ben_not_10 Absolutely. They're not perfect, nor are the perfectly awful. Personally, I love the rough and tumble look of my 1942 Mosin. It looks like it was assembled by a half blind 8 year old with an angle grinder. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Good video.My grandad was Royal navy in ww2 and was issued a P14 ,he loved it ,it was made by Winchester.He stole his bayonet when de mobbed and I have it now and it will be passed on to my daughter when I'm gone.
I own a P 14 303 rifle, still has its volley sights, I shoot it on a regular basis at our local club using gas checks with a reduced powder charge, then on military rangers i use factory loads. My rifles history, it was in storage in WW1 but issued to a London Home Guard section WW2, I acquired it quite a few years ago and it shoots as good as if new.
The P14 makes for a solid basis for a custom rifle. Better yet, is the P17 - because its bolt face is designed for the 30-06 so will take a whole host of cartridges - 308, 7-08, 280 Rem etcetera. It's also very strong and plenty long for the belted magnums, so will handle magnum cartridges, but this requires bolt face work. When I first came to South Africa in 1993 these actions could be bought cheaply unrestricted and were easily obtained, as could K98 actions and even No4s. Then the action on a bolt rifle was not a licenced part, the law's since changed. Personally I'd rather see these relics in stock as issued configuration. I had no idea so many had been made. Enough to equip the present day British army 14 times!
At one time p-14s and SMLEs were popular deer guns where I live . I always heard the rim jam rumor too but as far as I could tell we never had a problem with it either and I can never remember of anyone being careful as to how either one was loaded. Interestingly the 1914 Enfield was the father of the 1917 Enfield in 30-06 which after the war became the Remington model 30. In many ways that makes the model P-14 the great great grandfather of the Remington model 700
On November 1st, the 2018 Deer Season opened here. The State lottery drawing issued me a doe(antlerless) tag. Legal shooting started at 15 minutes before sunrise, about 7:15AM. I was huddled down, it was a surprisingly warm morning, about 45 degrees. There were some does milling about at 7:15, but I couldn't see my sights, it was too dark. By 7:25 I could see through the rear aperture, picked out a doe with no fawns around her and put one behind her shoulder. She went about 40 feet and folded up. I was using an Eddystone P14, #217xxx, produced late 1916-early 1917 in Delaware County, Pennsylvania. The .303 is still one of the best deer, and bigger game, cartridges ever made. My P14 and I have been a team since 1998. So far, it has killed a couple dozen deer with one shot. It belonged to my Wife who died, and I inherited the rifle.
I have a P17 my great grandfathers brother carried in WW1. He was assigned to prisoner guard/ exchange after the end of the war in Belguim and was allowed to keep it. Its mint and shoots well.
In 1950, aged 21, I worked for three months in the Cost Office of the Birmingham Small Arms Company in Armoury Road, Birmingham. At the time BSA were converting P14s and P17s (the .300 version) into sporting rifles. I was told, perhaps inaccurately, that the weapons - millions of them - had been left in their original packing in the vaults of the government factory at Enfield Lock and forgotten till after WWII. In the late 1940s BSA were buying them from the government at prices around six shillings and eightpence each. The BSA buyers used a little bribery to be allowed to choose which weapons they bought. Until then, I was told, they had never been unpacked. The P14 had a fault: one could not close the bolt if the magazine (which held only five rounds being a Mauser type) was empty. That was cured as part of the conversion process. Were they really forgotten? Certainly the Home Guard was without rifles for a long time after its formation. BSA built a factory in Blossomfield Road, Shirley, Birmingham to make the Number 4 Lee Enfield but production did not get going. I was told, until July 1941. 1.25 million No 4s were made there. My mother was one of the staff from 1941 for 21 years. Other No 4s were made at Fazakerly and Maltby. These are described as 'Royal Ordnance factories', but perhaps they were two of the 39 factories put under BSA control, although not owned by BSA. The royal ordnance factory at Enfield is described by Wiki as being where Bren guns were made but I suspect it was merely assembling them. The development of the Bren took place at BSA Armoury Road where my father was one of the team, and one of the Czech technicians who came over from Brno gave me some Czech coins. Many parts for the Bren were made at BSA's own factory at Mansfield, to the annoyance, it was said, of some Mansfield citizens who thought an arms factory would attract the German bombers. It was the main BSA factory in Armoury Road, Birmingham which got the big hit. 53 workers were killed in 1940 when a building collapsed on them. That factory was huge, 1.4 million square feet of workshops. I lived next to it for the first four years of my life.
"The P14 had a fault: one could not close the bolt if the magazine (which held only five rounds being a Mauser type) was empty" - Not a fault, commonly used on many rifles. It would remind a soldier to reload the rifle instead of cycling it without any ammo in the magazine. It's a bolt hold open essentially.
To check the date, take the stock off and look at the barrel, right where it meets the receiver. There should be a number like '14, '15 or '16 on it. That's the production year.
Spot on with the rim jams, I also found I not as easy to feed the chargers but the accuracy gained by the longer sight radius made up for the very minutely slower feed! I had a fat boy Eddystone I rescued from being a .410 into a .303
I just found and bought my very first P14. Having had an M1917 for a number of years, it seems rather familiar. I have not fired it yet, as we are having an old fashioned life-on-the-great-central-plateau winter. (It is below freezing for the past couple days and for the next week or so.) I am not nearly as hardy as I used to think I was. I have two SMLEs (No. 3) and reloading equipment, so ammunition of the correct weight and muzzle velocity is at hand. The jackets are not cupronickel, however. I am looking forward to a decent weather day.
I have a P14 .270/303 sporting conversion - awesome rifle. Hand-loaded, this thing kills everything I hit. I find it a bit heavy now I've aged, but the weight certainly helps with the recoil. As for the 5 round magazine - I seldom fire a second round.
P14 was also used in Poland during polish - soviet war 1920 and later in police, border guard as also paramilitary organizations for different shooting competitions.
Casey Also you got the enfield sickness!! Lol what’s your favorite enfield rifle?? I’ve been thinking of adding the p14 to my collection but they are so expensive, number 4 or smle are cheaper to buy now!!
The P-14/1917 Enfield makes a great sporting rifle. It was the predecessor of the Remington 700, by way of the Remington 30-S, which was essentially a "de-eared" 1917 Enfield with a nice commercial finish. As the P-13 was built for the big .276 (7.2x60mm, 13.4mm base diameter) experimental Enfield cartridge, the P-14/1917's lend themselves very well to conversion to big bore sporting rounds.
Re: P13 Whenever I learn anything about pre-war and World War One rifle choices, I'm always confused how they overlooked the .45-70. I guess if they didn't know about trenches they thought they couldn't use a 1886 lever action in the prone, but all these countries trying to hit someone 800+ meters away seem to have developed rounds and firearms that were either ridiculously long (Bonjour France!), hit like a deer rifle (Hi America! Also Germany) or were somehow worse (Sigh, P13). The SMLE got the magic formula of short rifle with a good cartridge and smooth action, but I can't help but feel the second best rifles of the war were probably carried by drivers and messengers carrying lever guns.
The Martini-Henry was a lever action rifle, although not magazine fed. We brits used it in South African campaigns so we were well aware of the lever action and its limitations in war
I feel like discussion of rifle ranges should include a hit probability chart for various ranges for standing unsupported and also for some sort of athletic drill like running and then shooting timed. All of the rifles with flip up rear sights out past 2,000 yards are hilarious. There should be a warning on those sights that says, "Move Closer !“
Even the longest of the long-range engagements, e.g. Omdurman, seem to be under 2000 yards. ISTR one unit opened fire at 1600 yards, and the enemy never got closer than 400.
Wish my 14s were like yours, they all don’t rather like the out of spec stuff like S&B and Wolf. Also harder to get under the extractor while feeding. They’re greased lightning with the right ammo though
Well done, if they were more available in Canada I would definitely purchase one. Not up to the snuff of the Long Branch but a great rifle all the same.
I think the American obsession with hating the Lee enfield and how we have so many rimjam problems in the states comes from the fact that the Enfield is unfortunately a system our gunsmiths are very much unfamiliar with. Whereas in the commonwealth countries, their gunsmiths are quite familiar with the enfield systems and it’s quirks and what’s needed to make them operate as intended. We here in the states just buy a rifle, take it to the range and if it doesn’t operate as we want it to we take it to a gunsmith and/or complain. And if the gunsmith can’t or won’t address the issues we say it’s a bad gun and then proceed to bash it all over the internet
BotR: At time 21:55 the Pathe video shows the clip loaded in straight stagger, not in the DUDUD order as in an SMLE. Have you tried this clip loading order? It may make the load sequence smoother, but would likely be a serious problem if an SMLE user was issued straight stagger ammo. Also if the P14 user got the charger inverted the rims might jam worse. Inconsistent ammo issue would be a deal breaker for Line Soldiers.
The 276 was close to the 7 mm Rem Magnum in ballistics, pretty impressive for the ERA. Of course there was the 500 Schuler or Jeffrey and 505 Gibbs from that era so maybe it wasn’t surprising.
Used the Remington P17 customised to a Sniping Rifle only change was change to cartridge Powder as original was a tad smoky but sorted, used the 06 as bullet not cartridge same as 7.62 mm NATO eventual rechambered to 7.62 x 51mm Cartridge
Awesome channel! Interestingly most of the P14's I have seen in South Africa have had the rear sights removed and Parker Hale sights added for bisley shooting. SMLE's and No4 rifles seem not to have been accurate enough (liked??) for bisley but CLLE's made the grade.
Thanks. Have a search on UA-cam for King's Prize and Queen's Prize newsreel footage. If you have that impression you will be very surprised at what the winners were using, right to the end of the .303 era... ;)
Good day my friend. I'm a Boer and the comment you made about the Boere is disrespectful. The British did have more rifles , more technology and more everything. The Boere had to do what they can to stay alive. The British made camps where the kept the Boere with their wives and children. I don't know what the British did to the Boere in that camps , but you can probably tell me that also. I just want to say don't talk about something you don't know anything about. I were not there , you were not there. So , don't make untruthful comments. The Boere were not the gorillas.
Great rifles and extremely robust. I came across one at a pawnshop with an absolutely mint chamber and bore. Just the timber had been sporterized. In my naive excitement to restore it I bought it for a pittance. Well, good luck finding a military replacement stock that doesn't cost way more than the complete rifle. Even well used stocks are very close or over $300. Makes it very tempting to complete the sporterization.
The bolt also features helical locking, a nice feature carried forward from the Lee Enfields. One of the things that probably made the US manufacturers a bit twitch was the use of "Enfield special" threads. However, they sem to hav managed OK. The "styling" of the P-14 seems to have influenced the 1930s Ainley sniper rifle, which also sought to use a serious .276 cartridge. Interestingly, when the US manufactures rejigged the production lines to make M-17s, they seem to have done so very quickly. MOST of the initial US Expeditionary force sent to France late in WW1 were carrying M-17 rifles, not 03 Springfields. Then, post WW1 Remington converted the M-17 line to making a "sporting" version, the Model 30 and effectively made the .30-06 a major sporting round, not just a service one.
I owned the 303 version number 14400 made by Winchester and they use Walnut wood , compared to my Mk4 and Oendorf 270win mag , just loved the P14 over all my others rifles
40 years ago when I started collecting vintage military rifles P14's and P17's were cheap and plentiful. I naively passed on buying a few to concentrate on purchasing Lee Enfields and Mausers. Now that I have realized my mistake I have had to pay the price and fork out $900 to buy a P14 in excellent condition. I'm glad I did, it is an excellent rifle and I regularly get 1 1/2 MOA with handloads.
For those of us interested in one of these in the US, what brand of brass is best for boxer primed? Or maybe brands. I'd like to pick up one of these someday.
In better times all the major manufacturers made loaded ammunition for the .303 British. In the current Xiden era factory loaded ammo availability is sporadic but PPU and Federal pop up on a semi-regular basis. I handload for my rifles and have had very good results from HXP Greek surplus . I fireform the factory loaded ammunition and then reload with quality target bullets. My best load gets 1 1/2 MOA with my P14.
Sorry, but no way... It's over-complicated, unprotected, doesn't have any form of positive indexing (no clicks or stops) and that open-topped aperture idea isn't great either.
I really like you rchannel Bloke. Even if it is primarily a veneration of all things British. One thing I won't let stand however is your comment regarding the Boer war. My Grandfather was a 111th Company Imperial Yeomanry volunteer who spent a couple of years in SA in the latter half of the war. (Remained in SA afterwards) I never met him but well remember my father telling me how Grandfather recounted how vastly superior the Boers were as marksman. No it wasn't just their use of cover. They creamed the incompetent Brits severely in several major battles early in the conflict and in the end it was pure brutality and Imperial might that enabled the brits to win. Grandfather recounted his experiences hauing a Boer family off their farm and torching it before herding them into a camp. The Brits investigated a Mauser replacement for the same reason the Yanks did when they were rudely shocked in the Spanish American war. Many factors played into the retention of the Lee Enfield as the principal British rifle, but it's supposed superiority over the Mauser was not one of them.
"Many factors played into the retention of the Lee Enfield as the principal British rifle, but it's supposed superiority over the Mauser was not one of them." The War Office published Textbook of Small Arms 1928 says you're wrong :p
Yes. And even though it now at least works, it's heavy, awkward, badly balanced, can't be fired from the left shoulder and the controls are scattered randomly all over the thing.
I look forward to it. Perhaps you may yet redeem yourself. Seriously though I think your channel is great. I really like your expose/series on the Mad minute. It's something I've been interested in for a long time. Shooting in various competitions it always seemed to me the concept had been blown massively out of the realm of reality.
The history has come full circle. The Americans are now adopting the .277 Fury, which is basically has identical ballistics to the later, slightly downloaded .276 Enfield, though the extremely short barrel on the SIG MCX Spear cuts quite deep into its potential.
Rewatching old stuff due to the lockdown, and this reminded me of an interesting rifle I've seen listed for sale. Supposedly it's a P13, but rebarrelled at the time (supposedly) to .303. I'd be interested, except for the fact the guy wants £12,500 for the damn thing! No wonder it's been listed on the site for well over a year now...
A number of the P13 trials rifles were indeed converted to P14's, the giveaway is the oblique grasping grooves. But £12.5k is taking the piss, even for a P13 in original condition.
@@BlokeontheRange Then again Enfield prices have gone mad here. You'll see people asking a grand or more for a Long Branch No4 on the classified sites. No4 Ts are asking £4k or more and L42s have been asking nearly 5 figures too. I don't think even Fulton's are charging that much for the most part!
Random question, but were clips of .303 ammunition issued with the rounds already stacked to avoid rim jams? or did each individual soldier have to restack them?
They were packaged correctly in bandoleers, but when issued ammo you were supposed to check that it hadn't been dislodged in transit, which could happen.
Hey bloke. Were dummy cartridges loaded onto chargers differently than live ammunition or did the instructor just have the charger shown at 22:00 loaded out of regulation fashion to make the loading process seem smoother for the sake of the training film?
I feel ashamed as somebody who is supposedly somewhat informed about firearms that I didn't know anything about the P14 and the M1917 until only two months ago. This is a super, super underrated rifle. And it's freakin' magic, apparently, since it literally can't rimjam. I imagine an alternate history where this rifle is developed further. Picture this rifle lightened (apparently the main complaint of at least the M1917 is that it's heavy AF) and has a detachable magazine. I wanna see that.
"Remind me who won in the end". At the end of what pray tell? What an idiotic thing to say when talking about rifles and shooting ability. The truth is that a rag tag bunch of farmers shot the shit out of the most powerful regular army on the face of the planet. I suppose you'll tell us next that the Rhodesians lost their war. BTW, I grew up hunting with a P14 .303 British with open sights and it's still the sweetest rifle I've ever used.
didn't need the rimmed cartridge on the 14..... definitely on the SMLE. Should have used our 06' ! You caant get a good purchase loading the stripper due to the relief is adequate enough... bly me!
Yes, the P14 really, really needed to be in 303... ammunition commonality on the front lines is a Big Deal, particularly in a conflict in WW1 (and the rifles would have been used as general, if substitute, issue on the front lines if SMLE production hadn't caught up enough to relegate them to training, sharpshooting and sniping).
I've been looking for one of these, or preferably the American version, because 30-06 is so much easier to find in the states. Haven't found one priced reasonably enough though.
Regarding the Rim Jam non-issue; my example of the P’14 has a broken magazine spring; however it’s broken such that can’t tell unless it’s been taken apart. Despite careful loading - the lack of upward pressure on the cartridges does result in occasional misfeeds. Assuming the spring failing isn’t noticed maybe this accounts for the undeserved ‘rim Jam’ reputation.
Your just prejudice, the p14 is a better rifle if you ask me. I’ve been shooting one in .30-06 my entire life and I’m 66 now. Course I load one round at a time, no stripper clips.
If an apocalyptic rim jam is something you desire deeply, load a 1905 pattern Ross MKII. It doesn't matter what orientation the rounds are in, they will find a way to rim jam. This can of course be fixed by just pushing down vigorously on the follower lowering lever a couple of times, but man it does get tiresome.
Usually this channel is quite informative and factual but some Lloydism appears to have crept in. The Boers did not lose because of their use of Mausers, nor did the British win due to using Lee-Metfords. The British won on account of superior strategy and most importantly, because they held the superiority in numbers and economics. Rifle makes rarely affect the outcomes of wars unless one rifle is vastly better than its competitor.
These vids are great but the average brits have no access to own or shoot any of these weapons. They could I suppose join a club but full bore rangers are very few and far between. And as for owning one or buying the ammo just forget it
@@annabeltheunicorn9374 ANY gun club in the UK will have at least 1 full bore range. We shoot a variety of calibers in the UK, just go to guntrader or gunstar to see what kinda guns the British shooting community shoots.
Bloke, this video has been long overdue! What have you been doing? Jk, love the P14, amazing rifle, Ive bested people using modern sporting rifles in competition with a Remington Pattern 14, 1915 production.
The committee acquired a Springfield 1903 and modified it with as many of the recommendations/requirements as possible. A precursor to the 'designing' of the SA80 rifle by cutting a Sterling built Armalite AR18 many decades later!
The P13, then the P14 is a most important rifle, if for no other reason, because of its sighting. As you know the P14 lead to the P17. Both with the same sighting. Check out the sighting used on the 1903 rifle used in WW 1 then look at the sighting of the WW 1903, Then check out the sighting of the M1 rifle. Back to the P14 and 17, take note of the front sight, three posts, very useful. The point of these rifles is to kill the target not, not in a moment but now. It takes time to dial in the windage, using the three posts of the P14/17 one can sight in the target using the center post and then move sighting a little this way or that to compensate for windage using the outer post, also, on leading a moving target the outer posts would come in handy.
HELP! I have a 1943 Maltby Enfield, re-barreled in 1948. The magazine was in dreadful shape. I took the finish off & (tried!!) to cold blue it. It rusted terribly!! First time I have had an issue with cold blue. What type of metal is this magazine made of??? Should I just clean it back off & powder-coat it or paint it??? Thank you Bloke or to anyone that can offer info....
Good video, lots of information and a fair discussion. I do have a U. S. 1917 rifle (it is a WWI rifle) and I do like it. I've never shot a P14 (not sure I've ever handled one). Being a cretinous U.S. born sort, for many years I thought the M1917 better than the No 3 or No 4 SMLE for fighting. As I age, I'm not so sure. With handling and 'getting used to it" they both seem more than adequate. I do have a comment about using ideas from the "...SMLE, Mauser '98 and Springfield M1903(06)..." That is a bit redundant to me. The M1906 rifle is just dandy, but it is essentially an "Americanized" and cosmetically altered version of the Mauser '98. And I am FORCED to add this about the "Remind me who won in the end" remark. Tell me about the Kruerrand and why it is called as it is, including the 'rand' part. Do not soon join the dodo bird. I look forward to your work.
A few nerdy points: the No.3 is the P14, the No.4 is not an SMLE. SMLE is No.1. There is no M1906 rifle: it's the M1903. The bit they took over from the 1903 in the P14 is the stocking-up (I explained this in the video), nothing to do with the action itself (which is in my view more derived from the M93 or M96 Mauser than the M98 - it doesn't have the more advanced gas handling features that make an M98 an M98 and not an M96 or earlier.) The bolt is kinda a mashup of pre-98 Mauser features and the back end is Krag-influenced.
@@BlokeontheRange You are correct. The rifle is the M1903, but was altered in 1906 (which does for some reason merit an official marking notice) in the chambering for the 1906 round (which is quite similar). So I think of the .30-06 cartridge. But the rifle is known as the M1903. I appreciate mistakes on my part; they relieve me of the burden of omniscience.
Another boer war consideration, was the the boers 7x57 Mausers out ranged the British .303s. Boer snipers could pick off British troops before they could return fire. The U.S. troops had the same problem with the 7x57s in the hands of Cuban soldiers in 1898. Which was a major factor leading to the adoption of the 03 Springfield (basically a modified Mauser) in .30-03 Springfield. Later on P-14s were often used by the LRDG in North Africa during the second world wide kerfuffle, with the Winchester version regarded to be more accurate. Most HomeGuard troops ended up with the .30-06, 1917 Enfield (.300 in British service) (often transitioning from p-14s and/or Ross rifles), purchased, (not lend leased) from the U.S. government. As an aside, those troops discovered that with the rimless .300 cartridge they were actually 6 shot rifles.
The US military in World War One, the main battle rifle was the m1917, some people call it the P-17. It was because there were not enough of the Sprinfield 1903. Both were in 30-06.
I know I'm late to the party, but I could not agree with you more on the sights. I have a Winchester P17, and it is honestly my favorite rifle to shoot simply because of the sights. It's kind of a shame, but here in the states most of these rifles in the civilian world were sporterized. That great big rear sight protection get's ground off to make room for a scope.
I think later remington and eddystone rifles were parts interchangeable but not Winchester rifles, i think it was because the MoD gave them prototype rifles that were individually modified for 303 in the rush to get production started
Eddystone was a Remington factory, hence why they'd be interchangeable. The problem is tha tin the rush there wasn't a full technical package available so Winchester and Remington diverged, made small changes independently and so on.
Apparently even after the U.S. adopted the design and insisted on interchangeability between the three plants manufacturing the M1917 Winchester built rifles still didn’t have full compatibility with the Remington built ones.
BotR: "This is going to be the longest video on the P14 ever"
Othias: "Hold my beer."
Oisin Creaner war were declared
Othias'... vids are better, although he tends to be long winded also mate!
Ralph ditore BUT, you get the full history...
Ralph ditore , both Bloke and Othias do a wonderful job and have completely different intention. Othias is a wonderful historian with a smattering of shooting for function. Bloke's approach is a wonderful shooting functionality with a smattering of history. Since I shoot all mine enought to where I am interested in the history, I need to watch both of em.
Oisin Creaner Nikolas Lloyd : pfhh you call that long?? (yeah I know, he ain't a gun guy, but he is the most infamous long video producer on youtube with no cuts, he wins Sam Mendes).
A couple of years ago I had the pleasure of meeting a former Home Guard Sergeant who was in the same platoon as my grandfather (both were in reserved occupations) and like every other Home Guardsman I've spoken to, he loved the P14. Interestingly after the war they were given the opportunity to purchase these weapons for the princely sum of £10, and he took up the offer and continued to shoot his P14 at the local rifle range until old age caught up with him.
£10 in 1945 is equivalent to £422 today, according to an inflation calculator!
The benefits of coming from a farming family I guess!
My father was in the Home Guard, also a sergeant, I don't know if he had the opportunity to buy his rifle for £10, but I wish he had, and had done so!
I have its American counterpart in .30-06. Excellent rifle.
The most accurate rifle that I have had the pleasure to fire.
Ths pain was too much tho, so I sold it. I am skinny.
Donnie Smith The 30-06 version is called the P17 rifle
@@TH3PLA1NP1L0T "P17" was an informal term never used by the U. S. military. The official designation was Rifle, M1917. Regardless of what you call it, however, it's a really nice rifle. I have two, both of which will shoot rings around my M1903 and M1903A3. For whatever reason, it just drops into a perfect alignment when I shoulder it and the sights are really excellent compared to the '03. Someday I hope to shoot a P14 in .303 caliber .
Kelton Oliver is it less recoil if it’s a
.303 cartridge?
@@TH3PLA1NP1L0T , felt recoil will be about the same. Slightly heavier bullet (.303) vs. higher velocity (30-06)... essentially a wash.
The American version in .30-06 Calibre made by Eddystone is scary accurate, functions well after immersion in mud and in my opinion probably the best battle rifle of World War I. Not an accident it was what Alvin York was shooting when he won his Congressional Medal of Honor in World War I. Performed spectacularly in the Phillipines at the beginning of World War II also.
Quality blathering, certainly a highlight for a Thursday night
The main lesson from this should be: " if you've got half a million rifles you don't use, stick them in a warehouse, don't scrap them because you never know"
I took my P14 to the range last weekend. It’s a pleasure to shoot and at 200 yds very accurate, I agree about the sight picture. Way ahead of its time.
War were declared! Love the reference.
Arie Heath, don't forget his lack of a patterned plastic poky hand
His?
1) It's Othais', bot Mike's
2) It's patented, so Mike can't use it as he pleases, without paying -Colt- C&Rsenal some fee.
Václav Fejt Don’t forget the import fees and duties on one. Then there’s getting it thru Customs: “Patented Plastic Pokey Thing?What is this?” 😃
Poland also used P14 during polish - soviet war 1920 and then in the border guard, police and military adoption till 1939.
1920 ? is it same winter war ?
As a very awesome genltman once said, "rimmed, for the extractors pleasure".
Dugan Ashley... I miss that guy
The awesomest of gentlemen
You are a man of culture sir
Well done!
A week ago, I found an M1917 in a pawn shop. It was sporterized, and had the rearsight replaced with a metal strap with a couple of holes in it. I died a little on the inside.
The M1917 was very popular for sporterizing after the Great War because of its extremely strong action. Professional gunsmiths even built big/dangerous game rifles on the '17. Unfortunately, because they were cheap, Bubba did a lot of work on them as well.
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Rear sight replaced or the metal strap welded on? Because they make a rail system that just screws in where the ladder goes. The rear sights are incredibly abundant. I found a P14 with a sporter stock and totally restored it to its WW1 configuration with all matching E stamped parts.
@@shockwave6213 Super late on the reply, but to the best of my memory, it was a literal strip of metal screwed to the top of the wrist of the stock and bent up where a hole drilled in the metal could serve as an aperture sight. It was the most jacked-up, jury rigged thing I’ve ever seen, and I’ve seen jail trustees instal emergency lights on a patrol vehicle. 😅
@@michaeldavis4651 OOF LMAO. Sounds like someone installed a Lever Action style tang sight. Definitely sounds like a 1950s Bubba job.
When Pershing's gang of US soldiers joined the trenches in 1918, they were armed with M1917 (P-14s chambered in 30'06 and Sgt. York used one to kill 11 enemy soldiers and take 37 prisoner at "something wood" battle .
I love your bashing of the rim jam myth. I’m still working on getting my first lee in 303 but I love how people who bash me to death with the “it rim jams” myth have either never fired a rifle chambered in a rimmed cartridge, or have only had experience with mosin nagants.
Lawrence Glover hey, don’t be hating on the Mosin!😂
Wyatt Stinchield not hating on the mosin, mainly the people who feel the mosin is a perfect rifle. It’s not perfect by any stretch. It’s a highly flawed rifle with a major flaw in its design. If they had removed the central rib to the bolt that rifle would be SO much better.
Mosin's won't rim jam if the interrupter is properly working.
Timothy Soen agreed. I think in the ten years I’ve owned my 91/30 I think I’ve had one jam that was a rim jam. Everything else is just mosins being mosins. Still prefer an enfield or a krag to a mosin for rimmed ammo
@@Ben_not_10 Absolutely. They're not perfect, nor are the perfectly awful. Personally, I love the rough and tumble look of my 1942 Mosin. It looks like it was assembled by a half blind 8 year old with an angle grinder. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Good video.My grandad was Royal navy in ww2 and was issued a P14 ,he loved it ,it was made by Winchester.He stole his bayonet when de mobbed and I have it now and it will be passed on to my daughter when I'm gone.
I own a P 14 303 rifle, still has its volley sights, I shoot it on a regular basis at our local club using gas checks with a reduced powder charge, then on military rangers i use factory loads. My rifles history, it was in storage in WW1 but issued to a London Home Guard section WW2, I acquired it quite a few years ago and it shoots as good as if new.
Out of interest, how do you know the rifle's history?
It's a beauty. I got to disassemble one this week- very intuitive to handle, beautiful machining and the bedding is superb.
The P14 makes for a solid basis for a custom rifle. Better yet, is the P17 - because its bolt face is designed for the 30-06 so will take a whole host of cartridges - 308, 7-08, 280 Rem etcetera. It's also very strong and plenty long for the belted magnums, so will handle magnum cartridges, but this requires bolt face work. When I first came to South Africa in 1993 these actions could be bought cheaply unrestricted and were easily obtained, as could K98 actions and even No4s. Then the action on a bolt rifle was not a licenced part, the law's since changed. Personally I'd rather see these relics in stock as issued configuration.
I had no idea so many had been made. Enough to equip the present day British army 14 times!
Those are nice rifles. I was fortunate enough to get a complete unit with volley sights intact. It is one of the nicest enfields in my collection.
I have owned 2 P14s... good rifles both of them. I am presently building a .308 on a P14 action that someone gave me in payment for a job....
NO... LOL... I'm a Gun Smith.... :-)
Kathryn Truscott gun zmith
What did you do about the bolt face and extractor?
@@craigbenz4835, m1917 bolts are relatively cheap and easy to come by.
Your blathering is well tolerated from me, may i say.
At one time p-14s and SMLEs were popular deer guns where I live . I always heard the rim jam rumor too but as far as I could tell we never had a problem with it either and I can never remember of anyone being careful as to how either one was loaded. Interestingly the 1914 Enfield was the father of the 1917 Enfield in 30-06 which after the war became the Remington model 30. In many ways that makes the model P-14 the great great grandfather of the Remington model 700
I have always had a soft spot, for P14’s and 17’s , good review/ history !
Aren't they gorgeous?!
I love all of the .303 rim jam that didn't happen.
All glory to the Patent Plastic Pokey Hand!!!!
I have a P 14, 303 with Parker Hale sites on fantastic rifle in very very good condition. Extremely accurate.
On November 1st, the 2018 Deer Season opened here. The State lottery drawing issued me a doe(antlerless) tag. Legal shooting started at 15 minutes before sunrise, about 7:15AM. I was huddled down, it was a surprisingly warm morning, about 45 degrees. There were some does milling about at 7:15, but I couldn't see my sights, it was too dark. By 7:25 I could see through the rear aperture, picked out a doe with no fawns around her and put one behind her shoulder. She went about 40 feet and folded up.
I was using an Eddystone P14, #217xxx, produced late 1916-early 1917 in Delaware County, Pennsylvania. The .303 is still one of the best deer, and bigger game, cartridges ever made. My P14 and I have been a team since 1998. So far, it has killed a couple dozen deer with one shot. It belonged to my Wife who died, and I inherited the rifle.
I have a P17 my great grandfathers brother carried in WW1. He was assigned to prisoner guard/ exchange after the end of the war in Belguim and was allowed to keep it. Its mint and shoots well.
In 1950, aged 21, I worked for three months in the Cost Office of the Birmingham Small Arms Company in Armoury Road, Birmingham. At the time BSA were converting P14s and P17s (the .300 version) into sporting rifles. I was told, perhaps inaccurately, that the weapons - millions of them - had been left in their original packing in the vaults of the government factory at Enfield Lock and forgotten till after WWII. In the late 1940s BSA were buying them from the government at prices around six shillings and eightpence each. The BSA buyers used a little bribery to be allowed to choose which weapons they bought. Until then, I was told, they had never been unpacked. The P14 had a fault: one could not close the bolt if the magazine (which held only five rounds being a Mauser type) was empty. That was cured as part of the conversion process.
Were they really forgotten? Certainly the Home Guard was without rifles for a long time after its formation. BSA built a factory in Blossomfield Road, Shirley, Birmingham to make the Number 4 Lee Enfield but production did not get going. I was told, until July 1941. 1.25 million No 4s were made there. My mother was one of the staff from 1941 for 21 years. Other No 4s were made at Fazakerly and Maltby. These are described as 'Royal Ordnance factories', but perhaps they were two of the 39 factories put under BSA control, although not owned by BSA. The royal ordnance factory at Enfield is described by Wiki as being where Bren guns were made but I suspect it was merely assembling them. The development of the Bren took place at BSA Armoury Road where my father was one of the team, and one of the Czech technicians who came over from Brno gave me some Czech coins. Many parts for the Bren were made at BSA's own factory at Mansfield, to the annoyance, it was said, of some Mansfield citizens who thought an arms factory would attract the German bombers. It was the main BSA factory in Armoury Road, Birmingham which got the big hit. 53 workers were killed in 1940 when a building collapsed on them. That factory was huge, 1.4 million square feet of workshops. I lived next to it for the first four years of my life.
I own one of the P14 sporters you mention...www.fototime.com/8F371D819C1492E/standard.jpg
"The P14 had a fault: one could not close the bolt if the magazine (which held only five rounds being a Mauser type) was empty" - Not a fault, commonly used on many rifles. It would remind a soldier to reload the rifle instead of cycling it without any ammo in the magazine. It's a bolt hold open essentially.
To check the date, take the stock off and look at the barrel, right where it meets the receiver. There should be a number like '14, '15 or '16 on it. That's the production year.
I have an old No. 4 Long Branch as well and have never had any issues with rim jams.
Spot on with the rim jams, I also found I not as easy to feed the chargers but the accuracy gained by the longer sight radius made up for the very minutely slower feed! I had a fat boy Eddystone I rescued from being a .410 into a .303
I just found and bought my very first P14. Having had an M1917 for a number of years, it seems rather familiar. I have not fired it yet, as we are having an old fashioned life-on-the-great-central-plateau winter. (It is below freezing for the past couple days and for the next week or so.) I am not nearly as hardy as I used to think I was. I have two SMLEs (No. 3) and reloading equipment, so ammunition of the correct weight and muzzle velocity is at hand. The jackets are not cupronickel, however.
I am looking forward to a decent weather day.
Looking froward to the mad minute for this!
this bolt looks very smooth!
Such a sweet piece.
Can't wait for the P14 mad minute!
I have a P14 .270/303 sporting conversion - awesome rifle. Hand-loaded, this thing kills everything I hit. I find it a bit heavy now I've aged, but the weight certainly helps with the recoil. As for the 5 round magazine - I seldom fire a second round.
Very nice P14, looks to be in the exact same condition as my Eddystone P14. I love mine it's a damn tack driver.
Very impressive set of 1814 buildings at Weedon depot. The magazine compound is very interesting.
P14 was also used in Poland during polish - soviet war 1920 and later in police, border guard as also paramilitary organizations for different shooting competitions.
I believe I can say more deer has gone down to the. 303 than any other caliber here in Canada. I have two P-14's in my gun safe,God bless from Canada.
"Remind me who won in the end." BOOM.
both sides lost! ( Boers and the British)
THEY WON CAUSE THEY TARGETED WOMEN AND CHILDREN READ YOUR HISTORY BOOK
@@jadelport66 Exactly!!!!
Even though I have only 15 p14/m17's and 35 Lee enfields, this is still my most favourite rifle. Like your vidio.
Casey Also you got the enfield sickness!! Lol what’s your favorite enfield rifle?? I’ve been thinking of adding the p14 to my collection but they are so expensive, number 4 or smle are cheaper to buy now!!
They were also used by Australia as Sniper rifles (fitted with scopes) in the pacific in WW2
Well done, thanks!
The P-14/1917 Enfield makes a great sporting rifle. It was the predecessor of the Remington 700, by way of the Remington 30-S, which was essentially a "de-eared" 1917 Enfield with a nice commercial finish. As the P-13 was built for the big .276 (7.2x60mm, 13.4mm base diameter) experimental Enfield cartridge, the P-14/1917's lend themselves very well to conversion to big bore sporting rounds.
Re: P13 Whenever I learn anything about pre-war and World War One rifle choices, I'm always confused how they overlooked the .45-70. I guess if they didn't know about trenches they thought they couldn't use a 1886 lever action in the prone, but all these countries trying to hit someone 800+ meters away seem to have developed rounds and firearms that were either ridiculously long (Bonjour France!), hit like a deer rifle (Hi America! Also Germany) or were somehow worse (Sigh, P13). The SMLE got the magic formula of short rifle with a good cartridge and smooth action, but I can't help but feel the second best rifles of the war were probably carried by drivers and messengers carrying lever guns.
The Martini-Henry was a lever action rifle, although not magazine fed. We brits used it in South African campaigns so we were well aware of the lever action and its limitations in war
I feel like discussion of rifle ranges should include a hit probability chart for various ranges for standing unsupported and also for some sort of athletic drill like running and then shooting timed.
All of the rifles with flip up rear sights out past 2,000 yards are hilarious. There should be a warning on those sights that says, "Move Closer !“
Even the longest of the long-range engagements, e.g. Omdurman, seem to be under 2000 yards. ISTR one unit opened fire at 1600 yards, and the enemy never got closer than 400.
Wish my 14s were like yours, they all don’t rather like the out of spec stuff like S&B and Wolf. Also harder to get under the extractor while feeding. They’re greased lightning with the right ammo though
Great content as always. :)
Well done, if they were more available in Canada I would definitely purchase one. Not up to the snuff of the Long Branch but a great rifle all the same.
I think the American obsession with hating the Lee enfield and how we have so many rimjam problems in the states comes from the fact that the Enfield is unfortunately a system our gunsmiths are very much unfamiliar with. Whereas in the commonwealth countries, their gunsmiths are quite familiar with the enfield systems and it’s quirks and what’s needed to make them operate as intended. We here in the states just buy a rifle, take it to the range and if it doesn’t operate as we want it to we take it to a gunsmith and/or complain. And if the gunsmith can’t or won’t address the issues we say it’s a bad gun and then proceed to bash it all over the internet
I wonder if a Briton would see a quirk? Would he perhaps see it as a personality?
BotR: At time 21:55 the Pathe video shows the clip loaded in straight stagger, not in the DUDUD order as in an SMLE. Have you tried this clip loading order? It may make the load sequence smoother, but would likely be a serious problem if an SMLE user was issued straight stagger ammo. Also if the P14 user got the charger inverted the rims might jam worse. Inconsistent ammo issue would be a deal breaker for Line Soldiers.
Even then you can see he's struggling with it. It's the focus of my P14 mad minute vid here: ua-cam.com/video/Z0qI4ePiadA/v-deo.html
Will you still be doing a US M1917 mad minute?
The 276 was close to the 7 mm Rem Magnum in ballistics, pretty impressive for the ERA. Of course there was the 500 Schuler or Jeffrey and 505 Gibbs from that era so maybe it wasn’t surprising.
Used the Remington P17 customised to a Sniping Rifle only change was change to cartridge Powder as original was a tad smoky but sorted, used the 06 as bullet not cartridge same as 7.62 mm NATO eventual rechambered to 7.62 x 51mm Cartridge
Awesome channel! Interestingly most of the P14's I have seen in South Africa have had the rear sights removed and Parker Hale sights added for bisley shooting. SMLE's and No4 rifles seem not to have been accurate enough (liked??) for bisley but CLLE's made the grade.
Thanks. Have a search on UA-cam for King's Prize and Queen's Prize newsreel footage. If you have that impression you will be very surprised at what the winners were using, right to the end of the .303 era... ;)
Interesting to see the number of SMLE's and No4 rifles
Good day my friend. I'm a Boer and the comment you made about the Boere is disrespectful. The British did have more rifles , more technology and more everything. The Boere had to do what they can to stay alive. The British made camps where the kept the Boere with their wives and children. I don't know what the British did to the Boere in that camps , but you can probably tell me that also. I just want to say don't talk about something you don't know anything about. I were not there , you were not there. So , don't make untruthful comments.
The Boere were not the gorillas.
Great rifles and extremely robust. I came across one at a pawnshop with an absolutely mint chamber and bore. Just the timber had been sporterized. In my naive excitement to restore it I bought it for a pittance. Well, good luck finding a military replacement stock that doesn't cost way more than the complete rifle. Even well used stocks are very close or over $300. Makes it very tempting to complete the sporterization.
The bolt also features helical locking, a nice feature carried forward from the Lee Enfields.
One of the things that probably made the US manufacturers a bit twitch was the use of "Enfield special" threads. However, they sem to hav managed OK.
The "styling" of the P-14 seems to have influenced the 1930s Ainley sniper rifle, which also sought to use a serious .276 cartridge.
Interestingly, when the US manufactures rejigged the production lines to make M-17s, they seem to have done so very quickly. MOST of the initial US Expeditionary force sent to France late in WW1 were carrying M-17 rifles, not 03 Springfields. Then, post WW1 Remington converted the M-17 line to making a "sporting" version, the Model 30 and effectively made the .30-06 a major sporting round, not just a service one.
I owned the 303 version number 14400 made by Winchester and they use Walnut wood , compared to my Mk4 and Oendorf 270win mag , just loved the P14 over all my others rifles
40 years ago when I started collecting vintage military rifles P14's and P17's were cheap and plentiful. I naively passed on buying a few to concentrate on purchasing Lee Enfields and Mausers. Now that I have realized my mistake I have had to pay the price and fork out $900 to buy a P14 in excellent condition. I'm glad I did, it is an excellent rifle and I regularly get 1 1/2 MOA with handloads.
p 17 is an amazing
I miss my Ishapore SMLE. I wish I never sold it.
For those of us interested in one of these in the US, what brand of brass is best for boxer primed? Or maybe brands. I'd like to pick up one of these someday.
In better times all the major manufacturers made loaded ammunition for the .303 British. In the current Xiden era factory loaded ammo availability is sporadic but PPU and Federal pop up on a semi-regular basis. I handload for my rifles and have had very good results from HXP Greek surplus . I fireform the factory loaded ammunition and then reload with quality target bullets. My best load gets 1 1/2 MOA with my P14.
I would contend the Ross m10 rear sight was better than the P-14
Sorry, but no way... It's over-complicated, unprotected, doesn't have any form of positive indexing (no clicks or stops) and that open-topped aperture idea isn't great either.
@@BlokeontheRange but other than that, it’s better!
I really like you rchannel Bloke. Even if it is primarily a veneration of all things British. One thing I won't let stand however is your comment regarding the Boer war. My Grandfather was a 111th Company Imperial Yeomanry volunteer who spent a couple of years in SA in the latter half of the war. (Remained in SA afterwards) I never met him but well remember my father telling me how Grandfather recounted how vastly superior the Boers were as marksman. No it wasn't just their use of cover. They creamed the incompetent Brits severely in several major battles early in the conflict and in the end it was pure brutality and Imperial might that enabled the brits to win. Grandfather recounted his experiences hauing a Boer family off their farm and torching it before herding them into a camp. The Brits investigated a Mauser replacement for the same reason the Yanks did when they were rudely shocked in the Spanish American war. Many factors played into the retention of the Lee Enfield as the principal British rifle, but it's supposed superiority over the Mauser was not one of them.
"Many factors played into the retention of the Lee Enfield as the principal British rifle, but it's supposed superiority over the Mauser was not one of them." The War Office published Textbook of Small Arms 1928 says you're wrong :p
"Even if it is primarily a veneration of all things British. " try holding your breath until I produce a video singing the praises of the SA-80 :p
Would that be the one Heckler und Koch had to fix? :)
Yes. And even though it now at least works, it's heavy, awkward, badly balanced, can't be fired from the left shoulder and the controls are scattered randomly all over the thing.
I look forward to it. Perhaps you may yet redeem yourself. Seriously though I think your channel is great. I really like your expose/series on the Mad minute. It's something I've been interested in for a long time. Shooting in various competitions it always seemed to me the concept had been blown massively out of the realm of reality.
The history has come full circle. The Americans are now adopting the .277 Fury, which is basically has identical ballistics to the later, slightly downloaded .276 Enfield, though the extremely short barrel on the SIG MCX Spear cuts quite deep into its potential.
A fantastic rifle! I wish they had made some of this rifles in 7.62*54R.
Rewatching old stuff due to the lockdown, and this reminded me of an interesting rifle I've seen listed for sale. Supposedly it's a P13, but rebarrelled at the time (supposedly) to .303. I'd be interested, except for the fact the guy wants £12,500 for the damn thing! No wonder it's been listed on the site for well over a year now...
A number of the P13 trials rifles were indeed converted to P14's, the giveaway is the oblique grasping grooves. But £12.5k is taking the piss, even for a P13 in original condition.
@@BlokeontheRange Then again Enfield prices have gone mad here. You'll see people asking a grand or more for a Long Branch No4 on the classified sites. No4 Ts are asking £4k or more and L42s have been asking nearly 5 figures too. I don't think even Fulton's are charging that much for the most part!
Can't wait to c it mad minit
Random question, but were clips of .303 ammunition issued with the rounds already stacked to avoid rim jams? or did each individual soldier have to restack them?
They were packaged correctly in bandoleers, but when issued ammo you were supposed to check that it hadn't been dislodged in transit, which could happen.
Thanks for taking the time to answer, it's an excellent video I hope it gets the audience it deserves.
Hey bloke. Were dummy cartridges loaded onto chargers differently than live ammunition or did the instructor just have the charger shown at 22:00 loaded out of regulation fashion to make the loading process seem smoother for the sake of the training film?
No, they shouldn't have been. Naughty instructor. It wasn't very smooth loading either.
I feel ashamed as somebody who is supposedly somewhat informed about firearms that I didn't know anything about the P14 and the M1917 until only two months ago.
This is a super, super underrated rifle. And it's freakin' magic, apparently, since it literally can't rimjam.
I imagine an alternate history where this rifle is developed further. Picture this rifle lightened (apparently the main complaint of at least the M1917 is that it's heavy AF) and has a detachable magazine. I wanna see that.
TheOz91 take a trip over to C&Rsenal all can revealed
"Remind me who won in the end".
At the end of what pray tell? What an idiotic thing to say when talking about rifles and shooting ability. The truth is that a rag tag bunch of farmers shot the shit out of the most powerful regular army on the face of the planet.
I suppose you'll tell us next that the Rhodesians lost their war.
BTW, I grew up hunting with a P14 .303 British with open sights and it's still the sweetest rifle I've ever used.
He really likes the Lee Enfields.
Gabbar Rf the commonwealth loves them.
didn't need the rimmed cartridge on the 14..... definitely on the SMLE. Should have used our 06' ! You caant get a good purchase loading the stripper due to the relief is adequate enough... bly me!
Yes, the P14 really, really needed to be in 303... ammunition commonality on the front lines is a Big Deal, particularly in a conflict in WW1 (and the rifles would have been used as general, if substitute, issue on the front lines if SMLE production hadn't caught up enough to relegate them to training, sharpshooting and sniping).
No pokey hand , but you have the fondue trident of 'splainin Bloke :-)
I've been looking for one of these, or preferably the American version, because 30-06 is so much easier to find in the states. Haven't found one priced reasonably enough though.
Bloke, you have neglected to mention that the barrel on the P-14 is twice the thickness of the SMLE barrel which whips all over the place when fired.
Regarding the Rim Jam non-issue; my example of the P’14 has a broken magazine spring; however it’s broken such that can’t tell unless it’s been taken apart. Despite careful loading - the lack of upward pressure on the cartridges does result in occasional misfeeds. Assuming the spring failing isn’t noticed maybe this accounts for the undeserved ‘rim Jam’ reputation.
Your just prejudice, the p14 is a better rifle if you ask me. I’ve been shooting one in .30-06 my entire life and I’m 66 now. Course I load one round at a time, no stripper clips.
If an apocalyptic rim jam is something you desire deeply, load a 1905 pattern Ross MKII. It doesn't matter what orientation the rounds are in, they will find a way to rim jam. This can of course be fixed by just pushing down vigorously on the follower lowering lever a couple of times, but man it does get tiresome.
Usually this channel is quite informative and factual but some Lloydism appears to have crept in. The Boers did not lose because of their use of Mausers, nor did the British win due to using Lee-Metfords. The British won on account of superior strategy and most importantly, because they held the superiority in numbers and economics. Rifle makes rarely affect the outcomes of wars unless one rifle is vastly better than its competitor.
I never said they did.....
I would also add that maybe the boars were better stewards of the land......But hindsight is 20/20
These vids are great but the average brits have no access to own or shoot any of these weapons. They could I suppose join a club but full bore rangers are very few and far between. And as for owning one or buying the ammo just forget it
@@globalpartsglobal7505 ok boomer
@@annabeltheunicorn9374 ANY gun club in the UK will have at least 1 full bore range. We shoot a variety of calibers in the UK, just go to guntrader or gunstar to see what kinda guns the British shooting community shoots.
Bloke, this video has been long overdue! What have you been doing? Jk, love the P14, amazing rifle, Ive bested people using modern sporting rifles in competition with a Remington Pattern 14, 1915 production.
The committee acquired a Springfield 1903 and modified it with as many of the recommendations/requirements as possible.
A precursor to the 'designing' of the SA80 rifle by cutting a Sterling built Armalite AR18 many decades later!
I got a p14 that BSA got there hands on and I noticed my bolt handle isnt dog lagged and hollowed out like your
Love your video's
Seems like a well put together rifle. A 30.06 sporterized for hunting would work here in the states.
There used to be zillions of them kicking around since M17's were surplussed off super cheap back in the post-WW2 period.
The P13, then the P14 is a most important rifle, if for no other reason, because of its sighting. As you know the P14 lead to the P17. Both with the same sighting. Check out the sighting used on the 1903 rifle used in WW 1 then look at the sighting of the WW 1903, Then check out the sighting of the M1 rifle. Back to the P14 and 17, take note of the front sight, three posts, very useful. The point of these rifles is to kill the target not, not in a moment but now. It takes time to dial in the windage, using the three posts of the P14/17 one can sight in the target using the center post and then move sighting a little this way or that to compensate for windage using the outer post, also, on leading a moving target the outer posts would come in handy.
HELP! I have a 1943 Maltby Enfield, re-barreled in 1948. The magazine was in dreadful shape. I took the finish off & (tried!!) to cold blue it. It rusted terribly!! First time I have had an issue with cold blue. What type of metal is this magazine made of??? Should I just clean it back off & powder-coat it or paint it??? Thank you Bloke or to anyone that can offer info....
It's going to be the mildest of mild steel. I'd probably indeed paint or PC it.
Thank you for the timely response! This dead president is very appreciative!!
Good video, lots of information and a fair discussion.
I do have a U. S. 1917 rifle (it is a WWI rifle) and I do like it. I've never shot a P14 (not sure I've ever handled one). Being a cretinous U.S. born sort, for many years I thought the M1917 better than the No 3 or No 4 SMLE for fighting. As I age, I'm not so sure. With handling and 'getting used to it" they both seem more than adequate.
I do have a comment about using ideas from the "...SMLE, Mauser '98 and Springfield M1903(06)..." That is a bit redundant to me. The M1906 rifle is just dandy, but it is essentially an "Americanized" and cosmetically altered version of the Mauser '98.
And I am FORCED to add this about the "Remind me who won in the end" remark. Tell me about the Kruerrand and why it is called as it is, including the 'rand' part.
Do not soon join the dodo bird. I look forward to your work.
A few nerdy points: the No.3 is the P14, the No.4 is not an SMLE. SMLE is No.1.
There is no M1906 rifle: it's the M1903. The bit they took over from the 1903 in the P14 is the stocking-up (I explained this in the video), nothing to do with the action itself (which is in my view more derived from the M93 or M96 Mauser than the M98 - it doesn't have the more advanced gas handling features that make an M98 an M98 and not an M96 or earlier.) The bolt is kinda a mashup of pre-98 Mauser features and the back end is Krag-influenced.
@@BlokeontheRange You are correct. The rifle is the M1903, but was altered in 1906 (which does for some reason merit an official marking notice) in the chambering for the 1906 round (which is quite similar). So I think of the .30-06 cartridge. But the rifle is known as the M1903. I appreciate mistakes on my part; they relieve me of the burden of omniscience.
hello from Long Island, New York.
Sweet dude!
Another boer war consideration, was the the boers 7x57 Mausers out ranged the British .303s. Boer snipers could pick off British troops before they could return fire. The U.S. troops had the same problem with the 7x57s in the hands of Cuban soldiers in 1898. Which was a major factor leading to the adoption of the 03 Springfield (basically a modified Mauser) in .30-03 Springfield. Later on P-14s were often used by the LRDG in North Africa during the second world wide kerfuffle, with the Winchester version regarded to be more accurate. Most HomeGuard troops ended up with the .30-06, 1917 Enfield (.300 in British service) (often transitioning from p-14s and/or Ross rifles), purchased, (not lend leased) from the U.S. government. As an aside, those troops discovered that with the rimless .300 cartridge they were actually 6 shot rifles.
The US military in World War One, the main battle rifle was the m1917, some people call it the P-17. It was because there were not enough of the Sprinfield 1903. Both were in 30-06.
The only feed issues I have had with a P14 was the top round jamming against the one underneath and denting it....cost me a deer one day...
I know I'm late to the party, but I could not agree with you more on the sights. I have a Winchester P17, and it is honestly my favorite rifle to shoot simply because of the sights. It's kind of a shame, but here in the states most of these rifles in the civilian world were sporterized. That great big rear sight protection get's ground off to make room for a scope.
I think later remington and eddystone rifles were parts interchangeable but not Winchester rifles, i think it was because the MoD gave them prototype rifles that were individually modified for 303 in the rush to get production started
Eddystone was a Remington factory, hence why they'd be interchangeable. The problem is tha tin the rush there wasn't a full technical package available so Winchester and Remington diverged, made small changes independently and so on.
Apparently even after the U.S. adopted the design and insisted on interchangeability between the three plants manufacturing the M1917 Winchester built rifles still didn’t have full compatibility with the Remington built ones.
So. You can't really get rim jam even if you try?
“And then war were declared and they sort of forgot.”
*air raid sirens*
“What’s that?”
“War were declared.”