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Differences between the Lee-Enfield SMLE and the No.4
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- Опубліковано 16 тра 2018
- Mike takes a look at the main differences between the .303 Lee-Enfield SMLE of WW1 fame and the later No.4 rifles. What makes the No.4 better and cheaper than its predecessor?
««« GUNS IN THIS VIDEO »»»
Lee-Enfield SMLE No.1 Mk.3 Mk.III .303
Lee-Enfield No.4 .303
Lee-Enfield No.7 .22
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I find the nose cap on the no.1 mk3* so beautiful
Absolutely- it’s the soul of the rifle.
It is the most beautiful rifle ever designed.
I agree!
I agree. I wish it had continued. The bulldog look is just so lovely.
@Zechariah Justin What the frick, why would you do that?
Recently acquired a sporterized Australian mkIII* from 1942 and so far I love it. Definitely going to get the parts to get it back to proper appearance
Good to hear you a bringing it back to the original build.
De-sporterized rifles, as I like to call them. Did that with a Springfield 1903 that had a horribly ugly sporterized stock and scope mount. Got it back to mil-spec condition, you’d never know by looking at it that it was once mutilated.
@chris mclaughlin how are they spastic? And James Lee isn't at fault for all the different labels. That's the British governments fault lol
@@whiterabit09 I have and I love it
@chris mclaughlin pft. Several old governments lol
Hey this guy looks kinda like that bloke whos on the range
He is bloke on the range
Because the rifles look from the his range
Sounds legit
Yes i know
It's interesting to see how much difference there actually is between the two rifles; action and basic aesthetics aside, they are fundamentally very different beasts and it's interesting to see the advancement in technology from what is essentially a Victorian rifle to one just a few decades later. Especially so in this context because so many people confuse one for the other.
All shoot the same. Are only as good as the person using them
Two very nice-looking, clean examples of the SMLE and #4 rifles. I hadn't realised that there was so much difference between the two... Now I'll have to find an SMLE...
My 1948 #4 MKII Faz is one of the most accurate mil-surp rifles I own, even using ww2 Winchester-made milsurp ammo. My modern reloads shoot even better. These really are good rifles if cared for.
Interesting, I love my No1 MKIII*, but I had no idea the No4 was never called SMLE!.
only the Dumb yanks call the No4 a smle
Called smelly ones😅
Also modern stress relieving makes light barrels still shoot straight when they are hot.
best looking bolt action rifles IMO :3
bloodygentleman I might be biased but I'd give the title for the m39 :)
oh yeah that's a tough competitor :) oh I know what about the P14 /M1917
K31 still my favorite
K98k makes for stiff competition!
Mike, you're doing a great service to history buffs and shooters alike with your very informative videos. Glad to see you're up on TFB! Keep up the great work!
Since I love to use "Bolt-action" rifles, AND I'm a lover of History too......
THESE beautiful rifles are right up my alleyway!
Thanks for the Lesson!
*when your arisaka has 3 screws and like 25 parts and still manages to be stronger*
I work at a local gun store in Pennsylvania, and have built over 400 lee Enfield #1 mk3 and #4 mk1 and mk2, and a few arisaka rifles and the Enfields are a royal pain in the ass. No pun intended.
@peter braxton well no shit you Plebeian, I was just stating a fact that they are pain in the ass to work on. No need to be a chode about it.
@Rob-Locks How did pacific not prove that theory? They lost the war. It was a matter of many different factors, but poor quality rifles were not one of them.
I have a last ditch Arisaka, that was HORRIBLE. the sights are so canted that i miss a human torso sized target at 50 yards. it is BAD.
Saddest part is that i tracked the serial number for production date. It has an intact chrysanthemum which means it was a battle field capture, and it was produced like 4 months before the war ended. So some poor 16 yr old or 60yr old was sent out right at the end of the war, with next to no training and died in likely a week or two for the timing to work. Its no where near collectable, but to me its a reminder of the evils of war. Some poor untrained fool, with a rifle that didn't really work, dying to literally no purpose.
@@econadept382 I have a type38 long rifle. It's masterfully crafted. It also was a battlefield capture. Mine was a 1918 production. Probably saw the conquest of China and then got captured in the pacific at the end of the war. It is such a beautiful rifle, the only problem is 6.5 Japanese is like 50 dollars for a box of 20. One of those guns you shoot once and then never again.
Fascinating look at such an historic battle rifle.
Very informative video -- Thanks!
The first milsurp rifle I ever purchased was a SMLE (1917 date). I still have it and I still love it.
I don't remember the exact price, but it was under $100 (in the late 80's).
Back then you could also go to the local gun show and pick up plastic bags of 100 loose cartridges of .303 (mostly Pakistani manufactured in the 50's-60's) for less that $10. A great piece of history that didn't break the bank.
So many complexities to this Milsurp rifle. I love it!!! Thanks for clearing up some of my confusion.
Great video- very informative. Thank you!
My 2 most favourite rifles, thankfully I have lovely examples of each.I find the designs of these almost mythical in their complication, like there is some kind of "gun magic" going on, especially with the way SMLE's are stocked so differently from anything else I Know. Sure I love (have plenty) Mauser pattern (and derivatives, like almost every modern bolt action) rifles as well but there is something special about Lee Enfield's,maybe its just because they arent the same!
I do like how you respect the 100 year old wood gremlins by not messing with them no more than needed. I could imagine they can be quite irritable if disturbed.
I acquired my grandfather's Lee-Enfield that he brought home after the war. My family knows very little about it. It was basically stored away since the day it was bright home. Is there a video or anything that would tell me how to determine what I have based on markings or the year it was made. It is a beautiful weapon. My favorite from the era
Look on the rear band of the rifle that connects the stock to the receiver, it will display the year of manufacture. I would just google Enfield markings, there are entire sites dedicated to it.
Picked one up at a big five sporting goods in 96 for less than a $100 (a no.4). So glad I did.
A Number 4 Mk1 Enfield is on my short list. I had a SMLE a long time ago but had to sell it when i was between jobs for 2 months. 20 years later now so I think it's time I get another. Although it's going to cost me about 3 times what the last one cost me.
We call it a hood because we play with the vjay jay alot you gotta life the hood to touch the motor
Dumb
That's not at all why it's called a hood... wtf are you talking about?
Dumbest interpretation ever.
Thanks for the comparison. I have 2, No 4 Mk 1 rifles. One is in full, original military configuration with the flip up rear sight. The other is a sporterized rifle.
Always loved the no4 sights. Best iron sights of the era in my opinion.
Awsome from Pennsylvania buddy Jeff. I have a no4 mk1 and what an awesome rifle. If shtf it will be with me. Mine is a 1943 English made. I love 303 and the rear micrometer peep. And has the button that you push down to remove the bolt. And all parts are matching numbers. It cost me 60 dollars. What a deal. God bless. It gets alot of deer for my family and is all original. . It was covered in brown paper and packed with a grease of so.e kind. I cleaned it for days. And actually took to a high pressure car wash to get alot of the stuff off. 😊😊
Loved the video....thank you for taking the time to create it.
The early SMLE with all its intricate features is a work of art compared to the No.4...
I'd like to see a video focussing on that number 7!
I have a No.5 Jungle Carbine from 1945 and matching, nice lil rifle though it kicks like a mule but not too bad. Only thing I gotta do is sight it in.
I dont know where you live but your mules are really weak
Just picked up a 5 also. All numbers matched. Can't wait to take it out and play. Missus doesn't know yet!
@@pacman10182 might be mistaken for a mouse.....try holding onto it properly..they kick no more than a .22
@@garycarlin4732 that's what I said
Great comparison! You have quite the collection mate
Super helpful video! Thank you for sharing!
Why did they change the terminology? My hunch is that they wanted to get rid of existing MLEs and mk1 and 2 SMLE, but I could be wrong.
Thanks Bloke
GREAT INFORMATIVE INFO!!!
While you yanks seem to like the SMLE (shows taste) you miss a lot .
Like .22 hornet built on a No1 Mk3 action
303.22
303.25
303.243
303.270
let me guess, .303 being the parent case?
I think It has to do with what is imported or available for sale like classicfirearms website usually only has no1 mk3 or no4 mk1 that is all they are able to source in large quantity.
All of these were (and still are to a degree) very common in Australia, there was a huge amount of .303brit parent case wildcatting in the Enfield platform over here.
@@shortstacknunya8836 That is really great, the prices are very high in the US. For a filthy, heavily used and pitted no4 mk1 out of Ethiopia you still need to cough up around $450 US.
@@drscopeify we don't have all that many no4s because Australia never adopted them and Lithgow never made them but we definitely do have a load of no1s though
used the no4 1 in army cadets for 5 years great weapon also had the 303 bren guns but our lee enfields had the leaf sights and battle
Ive got a 1922 MkV (not the Jungle carbine) im struggling with restoring. And I do mean Struggling with. Its hard finding information on a rare rifle. Im left with number matching Bolt, receiver and barrel which was shortened to 22 inches, i believe it was originally 25.2 inches. The loading bridge is gone, as well as the rear sight and any mounting points.
Lots of good info here. Thank you
I have lee-enfield smle mk III with the bayonet. it's a really long bayonet, looks like almost like a sword.
There were fencing classes with bayonets back in WW1, they were used as polearms
I love my savage no.4 mk1 it says US Property on the receiver
Hey Mike B! Welcome back!
Yanks use strange words.
Pieter only thing you should yank on is yourself 😂
Pieter them brits are weird though so you might yank a mate lmfao
we call it a hood instead of a bonnet because our cars dont wear petticoats.
That's not a word youd want to go around calling people in the Southern US.
That is true I was born in Texas and I don't like being called a Yank
I was always curious about the differences. I own a No. 4 Mk 1 (sporterized) and an Ishapore 2A.
"Bedding demons". Hahahaha!
Personally I think the SMLE is the better looking rifle. However the No.4 is the better rifle.
Better sights, and much easier to deal with in terms of correcting stocking up etc.
More from this guy!
He has got his own You Tube channel: "Bloke on the range".
Wow, these two really are similar but ultimately different rifles derived from the same general pattern. It makes sense then that it was designated a Rifle No4 rather than a No1 Mark19 or whatever Mark they'd gotten to, or a Mark 9*******. British Designations can get a bit crazy.
Mine is free floated and shoots very well. .
Well done! A question came up at a recent living history event I attended. Why are some No. 4 handguards grooved?
The one thing I want in this life before I die is for somebody to set up some business to manufacture SMLE-looking mannlicher-like Lee-Enfield rifles with No. 4 -ish barrels and sights and in a modern versatile and widely available caliber, which must also be legal pretty much everywhere (.307?)
very informative
"which is english for bonnet" ha, nice one!
I've got a No. 4 MK 1, given to me by my stepdad, made in 1943 and has seen factory repair back in '49. all matching serial numbers between the rifle itself, the bolt, and the magazine. I intend to take it to the range when i get the chance as i'd gotten some stripper clips for it [you blokes call them "chargers"] and a pouch that holds up to 4 loaded clips. I'd never shot it before so i'm kinda binging a lot of videos about it. I found a sling for it and i'm hoping to find a bayonet for it, rather difficult given that they're specific to the model. I just hope to have as close to a full kit for this rifle short of the cleaning kit that i can get.
Bloke....I’m terrified of the bedding demons, actually. But I’ve a No. 4 Mk 2 that’s been refurbished by James River Armory. I’m now wondering if they “totally undressed” the rifle to get at all the metal under the hood.
Excellent episode 👍🤝😎😁
Which one would you suggest as a first pick up? Love the SMLE look.
No.4's are more plentiful and cheaper to acquire than the No.3's which have shot up in value, especially if they're from the WW1 war years. The Australian's continued using the No.3 into WW2 and they are known for being better made than the British ones.
Thanks , good info 👍
Still relevant. Good information.
I have a BSA Shtle 1913 (not shootable and sproterized). I have a #5 mk1 f 1947 and a #4 mk2 f 1955 (Brand spanking new condition). I need a Smle now thanks.
You don't need to remove the front sight guard. Just bend the forward band as you did the rear.
You don't want to be doing that at all.
"The British Government couldn't impose its standards"...TAKE THAT, REDCOATS!!
So, I understand how the LE no4 was an (ever so slight) improvement from a strategic pov, but what about the troops? It's slightly more accurate, but also slightly heavier, right? How would an experienced sergeant who was told to go from the SMLE to the no4 have reacted? Would he see it as a cheapened version, an improved version or just shrugged, spat and carried on?
Probably could’ve kept using his SMLE if he really wanted to, just imagine it would get replaced with a No. 4 if it was rendered inoperable for any reason
17:36 I wouldn't say it's a different rifle, but a different model. Like comparing an 1893 to an 1898 mauser.
Please educate me, what do you mean by the demons in the wood?
The Tricky Outdoorsman The accuracy of the number 4 is intrinsically linked by design to the "stocking" as in where the wood contacts the barrel, and how much force it exerts on the barrel. If a No4 is shooting well, you don't want to upset the stocking. Otherwise you need to learn the esoteric lost art of setting up an Enfield...best let those demons sleep. There are few pleasures in life that match shooting a sweet Enfield.
Alan Passat - oh yes. Leave them puppies sleeping. The wood wakes up, yawns, trumps and settles down to sleep in a different position, then your group can change zip code.
I didnt carry these in service. I did carry these through the bush. For decades. The SMLE is a much smoother action. I would choose it over the 4 all day. That said I have had three P14s. The bolt on the P14 took belted magnums like a champ.
I still want a No.4 so bad. but hard to find =(
A 303 briish either smle or no4 mk1. Are the best battle rifles ever made. Just ask the germans who faced them. You could use as a post hole digger and then shoot and hit what needs hit.
Well that was clear as mud.
Great video. Hey, I was wondering if there is a way to find the service records of a lee-enfield 303?
Thank you for an interesting account. I have an SmtLE Lee Enfield mark III. What is the significance of the MT? The III has two horizontal lines following it. There is no star. It has the name Enfield and the date 1917. The serial number is 2742. It is different from the version displayed, seemingly only in that it has a rounded plate screwed onto the hammer. I live in South Africa, if that is of any relevance.
I was told by a no Physician From Devon, that the morel with the seemingly unnecessary curves was due to a constant push in armorers to jettison any extra weight, as we see with the scalloping every possible on the Jungle Carbing, the only one I own . A positive trend, but an anecdote from a Leftenant Commander now living here in western PA teaching our Boy Scouts how to fly and shoot. Can anybody recommend me a good forum? I need a king bold from my stock attachment and I'l like an original top handguard barrel band but one could be fabbed np. I was also lucky enough to pick up an Austrian M92 Steyr Mannlicher straight-pull bolt like the Swiss K63. It has the historical reach markings and the stripper clips are marked with the date or the annex of Poland. Need a bayonet for that too.
Are you talking about termites?
At 300 yards, a kneeling man is the height of the rifle foresight. (No 4.)
Thanx, that made more sense than it I'd read it.
Mark 4 Savage and Singer made < it might other British products too> *lend & lease* cheap war time products has got only two Grooves.. so called Microgroove system
Why you did not mentioned this ?
I'd like to see how that American made SMLE would compare to my Australian made WWII SMLE.
The Americans never made the SMLE. This term applied only to what later became the Number 1 and Number 2 rifles but was stopped being used in the early 1920s. The Americans first started to manufacture the Lee-Enfield about 20 years afterwards.
Will you please, if you havnt already, explain how to distinguish a WW2 era Enfield sniper rifle from a regular service rifle. Reason I say that is because it's a luxury to get one with the original scope. What if u have one without the scope or mount but its drilled and taped for one. I need help
It's Bloke!!!
All said and done, I STILL don't want to be on the receiving end of one!! Hit by a .303 , you stay "HIT"!
Yeah that is true
I want to know why mine isn’t full wood down the barrel, and I also saw that receiver has mk1 but the sight has mk2 stamped onto them. And a lot of the markings and stamps I see are different from other lee enfields.
EDIT: I also notice that mine has the non North American bolt release but none of the English stamps.
It would be interesting to see these compared to a long lee
try British muzzleloaders on YT, he does exactly that
Nice video, which rifle do you like more??
I have a 1914 no 1 mk3 with the cutoff still intact. Also have a no 4mk1 of 1943 vintage. Have you ever seen a green painted no4 rifle? My smle has remnants of green paint but my no 4 is covered in it
It usually was used as a rust and rot prevention for tropical and jungle conditions.
Hello Bloke old boy. Given the age of these rifles, and thier origins in black powder , are there any fatigue concerns in bolt or receiver? Should one get aforementioned magnafluxed or x-rayed etc?? These old girls pre-date FEA fatigue analysis and my face is in line with the bolt.This fatigue concern It's un-nerving and responsible for poor scores. I have nightmares about crack propagation in my beloved Maltby No4.
just what did you say to make the screw cross?
Lots of people say the chambers of the enfield vary. I wonder if this is the case with the No1 so the rumors carried over to the No4. I can't feel a difference with my Long Branch and my brother's British manufactured No4. I think the largest part of the chamber is .455. You'd think Savage and Long Branch would build their rifles to the British specs for chambers so maybe it's the different British factories that varied? Maybe it's not even diameter but shoulder that varies? I can't find any actual facts other that people on forums saying they vary. Do you have any actual facts about this? Thanks and great video.
Thanks for this. I inherited a sporterized no 4 some time ago, fitted with what looks to be period scope. Interesting thing about it is that it doesn't have a charging bridge and it doesn't look like it was machined off. Could it have been manufactured as a sport rifle? Could it be a no 4 pattern manufactured by someone other than Lee Enfield? I'd appreciate input on this.
I heard « the two is the number two fucking version of this rifle »
When removing stock on a no4 longbranch, does it matter which order you remove the buttstock/forestock
Smle is beatiful🇬🇧
The British production rifles can have the Mk.II flip sight right? I have a ROF (F) 06/43 with a savage front stock (for some reason. It also has no US marks anywhere on the gun) that has the flip sights. Can that be correct?
What’s the Lee e field rifle on season 4 episode 3 of schitts creek it doesn’t have the wood all the way down the entire length of the barrel?
Personally prefer the looks of the SMLE.
Out of curiosity, why did it take so long to switch to aperture sights?
when the Long lee and SMLE came about way back in the late 1800s and early 1900s, Aperture sights where more of a target rifle thing, we only start seeing them commonly on rifles post P14 and M1917.
I always kind of thought it was strange holding onto the short radius old school design of SMLE for so long myself but after getting well familiar with both my no1mk3 and no4mk1 I kinda like the SMLE better for rapid target acquisition and tracking.Sure if im going for groups on paper the peep is king,but if my life dep[ended on it, I think id go SMLE personally.Worth noting that ive spent much more time shooting guns with short radius open sights, maybe this plays a part in my personal preference. I even think when i actually had semi decent eyesight i probably could have shot a decent group with SMLE sights, alas I was busy doing other things.
Why does the rear sight distance change with the bayonet fixed ?
What significance is the * attached to the name.
Im looking at a mk1 nos4*. Is it a good rifle
Is there a transcript of this video available? I'm of English descent myself, but that doesn't seem to be helping much.
Yeah, his scottish-ish accent is kinda hard to understand when he speaks quick
Handsome Jack You call that a scottish-ish accent? He's basically got no accent at all, it's just english.
I wish they had an smle was on battlefield v and not no.4
It's a mark 5 I think
I have a Lee Enfield mk4 no1 Lithgow converted to 45-70 and was wondering if the sights on these rifles are interchangable? I want to replace my rear peep with one of the adjustable battle sights. Any info would help
Okay I might be the odd one out here but I never have liked the No.4 pattern rifles. I have 4 SMLEs and I absolutely love them, but I couldn't stand my Savage No.4 Mk1*. Cant really put my finger on as to why tho...
Overwatch Because it was a Savage? Proper No4s came from Fazacklerly in Liverpool,England or Maltby in Yorkshire, England.
Hello Mr. Enfield Bloke.... Question: Can the hinged Mark 1 barrel band fit on a No. 4 rifle. ????? Thank you in advance