The Heismay/Martire arc figuratively slapped me out of my chair every time I thought I could guess what was coming. "Oh Heismay's son was probably killed by a Human and he's out here on a suicidal revenge hunt right? Or got sacrificed by the army like with Strohl's hometown?" "Actually his kid was beaten to death's door in a riot and refused lifesaving medical attention for his race." "O-Oh...well Joanna is caring for this creepy demon baby because the man she loved was killed and it's what they were never able to have right?" "Actually she did have a kid with him but the nanny killed it for being a 'godless abomination' and her family was openly happy that happened." "Jesus Christ."
Eaxctly!! This game is special, in my opinion it the best story atlus has made which there is not competition tbh lol 😆 as there not really a lot lol @@kaijuultimax9407
If they ever do an expanded version of the game like they do with...basically every other rpg they make, I'd love even more goofy attempts at sabotage from the likes of Milo or the other more minor candidates during this part of the game.
That "I KNOW" hit like a freight train and immediately cemented Heismay as one of the best characters I've ever seen. Absolutely incredible voice acting on the part of Phillippe Spall to deliver such empathy and pain in two words.
I think about Heismays son a lot. Im an ex Paramedic, and I've seen my share of scenes like that. The way he described it, I could clearly see it. That stays with me as much as real calls do.
Heismay and Joanna were peak. Exponentially enhanced by the reveal for the unspoiled that Heismay wasn't a goofy mascot character, but the realest fucker in the party.
@@drunkdonkeydude so thankful for that. Morgana was alright but I don't miss him and I'm actively angry whenever Teddie is on screen Koromaru is the goodest of boys though so he gets a pass
@@GanguroKonata Koromaru is the funniest of the lot, honestly, because he's literally Just A Dog. He does dog things. but he can also summon a persona, and that's funny
My favorite line from Heismay is when he reads a passage from your fantasy book. He sees how it talks about equity and everyone has a chance at success but then Heismay says that equality is nice and all but it doesn’t mean shit unless it is truly a level playing field and is aware of the massive societal change that would require. I’m paraphrasing what he said obviously but that acknowledgment was mind blowing to me.
This and Strohl pointing out things being decided democratically does not necessarily in itself mean it will be the 'right' decision, and the issues in division such a system can create was wayyyy more mature than I thought the game would go. I really was pleasantly suprised the Fantasy Novel is geniunely thought on by some characters critically, both accepting its hopefulness but also bringing up issues, and usually ones that are relevant to how they see the world.
Having Gallica be the Mage Archetype line and having her be one of the very few Bonds that are story locked is so evil that I'm honestly kinda impressed
What I like most about Joanna's death is that I talked to my brother about it and he just said "well yea what you didn't think they would kill her right there" and I said "It's not that I thought they wouldn't kill her I just thought it was rather abrupt" and he said "well what its like the middle age type setting right, it makes sense for deaths to be public executions" but like I just couldn't wrap my head around just doing it right there right away, figured the church would want to do it behind closed doors, so like the MC and the group I was just not happy or sad just caught off guard
Forden wanted it known that he has nothing to do with the humans so he made it known in a very noticeable manner. It's like the IRL medieval Catholic church in that way
Hulkenberg is better just in the story outside her link just being a general goof of a knight gushing over Junah, her being overly serious at mundane shit like addressing people
I have also reached Town three and I must say, Louis is just absolutly amazing. He is a asshole JRPG Main Villian, but he is also so honest and just as involved in the race as the MC is. No "I planned this years ago and everything that happens is according to Keikaku!". Instead the dude is just as blindsighted as everyone else and just went "okay, I guess we are doing things this way now, huh?". I love him.
@@plinfan6541EXACTLY! He's so honest and straightfoward. That moment when Strohl confronts him about the destruction of his village and he's just like "Yes i did. It was a part of the plan and i'm sure you grow stronger out of it as well". He's too real for me to hate him
Louis is great because he owns being terrible without feeling sorry for himself, man looked us dead in the eye and says all the bad things he's gonna do He's like Akechi mixed with Adachi without either of the things both of them have that make them suck, Adachi's refusal to see reality that he made his life suck and Akechi's inability to see value in others Louis respects strength above all else so he's perfectly happy with the MC getting in his way multiple times because he wants strength to rule, he's exactly like Lucifer just being Chaotic Neutral
Heismay is one of the best Party member in general, His Conversation pre and post boss fight is peak Metaphor with it competitor is a spoiler so otherwise top 3 persona dads
Heismay is by far my favorite RPG character. Never expected this from his character design alone. They cooked with his story and especially his voice actor
Louis is straight up the best villain in a JRPG we have seen in awhile. He’s a FORCE as soon as the game starts and remains that way all the way till the end
@@phillemon7664 The thing is, in a lot of people's eyes-- Louis is incredibly, well redeemable is the wrong word; for a lot of people Louis would have literally done nothing wrong, if he weren't just a character in a game. He is a strong man leader who challenges a broken system, says it like it is, and is upfront and straightforward with his intentions. He is a man of our times-- Authoritarian, but through a populist lens; a strong man that promises change and vision; a cult of personality with the means to carry out his vision. He would fit right in the global political environment we live under.
@@aarlanng Well also he hacked the God candidate choosing system and has the support of the fucking evil looking thing with tentacles, glowing eyes and heat coming off of it in the sky bellowing in the sky that your right helps
23:00 That "rainy day" ring isn't quite as good as it sounds, since bad weather is extremely detrimental in this game and makes it so all your crits and weakness exploitation no longer activates press turns, which severely diminishes your teams potential. You do get extra xp on those days, but it's not really worth it honestly. You generally want to avoid going to any dungeon during bad weather if you're not overleveled already. That ring just helps compensate for that downside, but it's still usually worse than extra turns.
I can't believe it's been 7 years and Woolie STILL thinks that P5's ending message is "Be rebellious, but in a society-pleasing way", when it's actually "Large-scale societal change is impossible unless the public masses lose their apathy and work together to challenge the status quo".
It’s like, yeah at first I can see how “rebel against society” is the initial messaging, but that last dungeon really puts in your face, in a very non-subtle way, what the game is about. Like you said, the game spells out “all of the suffering you have been fighting against is because people don’t want to change the status quo”.
@@thirdeye9698 P3, 4, and 5 literally have the core message as the title of their theme songs. Burn My Dread: Live life to the fullest and forsake your fear of death Pursuing My True Self: Accepting comforting lies will ultimately bring suffering long-term. Wake Up, Get Up, Get Out There: Nothing is going to change if you sit down accepting your fate
Personally, I only have watched metaphor content in the music and CSB vids. That normally shud be enough but maybe atlas is culling off vids or algorithms but being more low-key than usual?
The great thing about Metaphor is in how honest and nuanced their characters are. Heismey is a high point, but he isn't the best character for me so far. The one you get in the 4th town resonates with me a lot strongly, though partially that's probably because I'm a minority whose cultural footprint is nonexistent at the macro scale, whose identity is slowly being eroded by the hegemonic forces of an imperial class. The sense of isolation and invisibility is a shade of discrimination that isn't often depicted within media and I'm super pleased with the way they represented it through the party member and the Mustari people. Each of the characters are great and reflect a reality that is lived and experienced, each of them eventually grow into the closest thing to a platonic ideal (or heroic archetype, heheh) of what they represent-- Strohl as the exemplar noble and member of a privileged class; Hulkenburg as the knight/soldier and her struggles with duty and ideals (tbh I do find her Social Link to be one of the weaker ones); etc. This is done well enough that I can see a huge variety in the choice of characters that each players end up as their favourites.
On the Commander Archetype, at its second form it gets an attack called Frigid Fortress Stratagem that is, for my money, one of the best abilities in the game. That attack carried me all the way to the final boss
The hesitancy on early Alonzo progress is hilarious because it's secretly SPOILERS one of the best midgame sustain DPS if you support its Synthesis options. 0 mp screenwide almighty? Yes, please!
I didnt expect to like Heismay as much as I did especially since im not a father but my brother is going to be and i think its rubbing off on me a bit cause I can't wait to teach that kid as they get older, but the stuff both Heismay and Joanna went through are so fucked that while I still think she deserved what she got, the pain she went through i dont wish on anyone, and Heismay's dislike of Paripas I think rings a cord with most people where it only takes a single bad experience to paint your whole view of groups of people even if they dont deserve the brush, but I do like his convo with Junah later about how just because he's a Eugief doesn't mean he's suddenly got perspective for Paripas which is true in our world too, just because two people are hated doesn't mean they suddenly come together in both being minorities
This part is crazy for me because I ran smack dab into this scene without context and was entranced and horrified by the writing, the voice acting, and horrific monster boss at the end. Its tragic and hits the heart in a way that really feels lile not being shackled by the Persona age demographic let them spread their wings.
@@Vanity0666 yes but you're following around a bunch of teenagers doing teenager shit, with the intent of selling this teenage life to teenagers. If I have to sit through another whack ass accidental bath scene I swear. I'm so happy everyone in Metaphor is an adult.
@@aarlanng at least the one in P3 was because junpei is an asshole and the group was like: "OH FUCK OH NO OH FUCK" and then they gave you a stupid little mgs sneaking scene
@@wumbojet yeah but I think there's where the strength of Metaphor shines in comparison to the Persona games, in the Persona games there's always this layer of cynicism behind the narrative design decisions-- like in the P3 example, they're like "ok we know this isn't the best look but we'll give it to you anyway but in a way you feel less gross about it"; similar case with P5 and the whole Anne situation; or the whole emancipation rhetoric. In Metaphor, they don't make nearly as many compromises. It's clear they had a vision for the game and its message, and that message is expressed boldly and with sincerity, instead of the ideals existing as a prop to be touted when relevant, the ideals are the driving force propelling us forward-- almost every scene or major experience in the game is done so with the intent of reflecting the message and vision they had in mind. It's so refreshing, not just in terms of Atlus games, but in contemporary media in general. It weirdly reminds me of Disco Elysium in a way.
@@aarlanng Eh I would argue P3 is similar in that regard overall even if that one bath scene wasn't needed. A lot of those problems with Persona's writing came mainly from 4 and carried over to 5. I still love both of those games but there was for sure some sort of shift in how things were handled and what was prioritized in the writing.
Heismay is a great character I agree. As for Joanna, I think the point you made about the NPCs and civilians treating her more believably than our intentionally idealistically characterized party does helps a lot. It can feel like she gets too much breathing room for heir justifications when you only take the main characters into account, but the game is about what other people outside you hero group thinks so you have to engage with the fact that NPCs are the way you see how the events of he plot are reacted towards.
Hearing Woolie talk about what he likes in stories just makes me think he really should be playing CRPGs like Witcher, Baldurs Gate, Dragon Age, Pathfinder, Fallout, Tyranny, etc. Seems to be way more his thing than JRPGs.
From a story standpoint maybe, but the mechanics would probably be too much for actual CRPGs, he was already struggling with them in some other games from what I remember.
Heismay is my favourite charcter because he can drain an entire set of turns for a boss with one dodge. Also the death of his son reminded me of my dog dying last year so i liked his social link
I felt the same way! I'm about to finish the game (literally in the final dungeon), but it sort of felt like the party member you get after Heismay should have gotten a dungeon more focused on her, but instead as soon as you get her you're shuffled onto the next area and the next party member is central to that dungeon.
@@PonrokoArchive I like that unlike Akechi and Naoto he's in the party for a time just not playable thanks to the dragon temple making him have to stay with his brother
Himsmay, my goat. Metaphor is so good and i loved every party member and felt legit bad I couldn't make time for Basilio, i maxed out everyone else's links
I am of the belief that Joanna got what she deserved, but she should still have a fair trial, even if all the evidence is quite clear. Getting executed right on the spot without trial, even if Strohl said that would be the expected outcome, was a surprise to me.
I admit i was kinda surprised when they didn't bring the redacted with them with her to the redacted. like the fucking thing is right there and its clearly dead and also clear fucking evidence
She did kinda confess in front of a massive crowd, and everyone was kind of in the middle of the race. I also don't entirely know if the realm does "trials" in our sense of the conceit. She copped the crime, multiple people backed up her confession, open and shut as far as the law is concerned.
29:45 Ugh yeah this kinda pissed me off, especially when Hulkenberg's Heroic requires levels in the mage line, which I did not build her for the whole game since her magic stat sucks.
The secret is that personal damage stats don't matter much in this game. Weapon damage affects damage output much more. So someone with a low magic stat is only a slightly worse mage than someone with a high magic stat.
it's game of the year nominations that get music played, and since it was nominated for GOTY it's safe to say we'll hear some monk chanting at TGA regardless of who wins what
He is because he made up these problems to these things that were addressed but not thrown in your face like you're a child who needs everything specifically explained to your face.
@@RavenCloak13 he's referring to inexperienced characters speaking from their high horse about "whats wrong" without ever actually acknowledging what about it is wrong, why someone could be driven to the edge, or that the villain is also a victim. These points are ACTUALLY INTERESTING to watch characters come to terms with and makes them into actual characters and not convenient vehicles for the plot to move forward. It does not matter if the player/reader understands as this is not what Woolie is even talking about, from a writing standpoint feeling that the characters understand and can relate to plot developments just leads to a better product in general
Heismay was such a u-turn for a character i expected. He looked all cute and marketable and i thought "okay here's our Teddie" only to realize he is the most mature and tragic character on the team that i refuse to swap.
2:45 I gotta slap Woolie on the wrist for this p5 bit cause he is more wrong than he’s ever been. He’s referring to a bit from p5 where the characters are explicitly and deliberately (from the writers perspective) incorrect as they change society to gain their approval rather than because it’s right. P5 does this really interesting thing where the characters represent the antitheme for 90% of the story as they tackle the symptoms of societal issues but not their source. But they do learn their lesson after Shido and specifically go against the will of the people and do what is right for society even as their collective will is screaming at them to stop.
Hmm, I'm surprised a lot of people found the characters amazingly written. I'd expect most people to think they were redundant and one dimensional. That's pretty cool. Because this is a cool game. For all the years I've been watching TBFP guys, I didn't think Pat would be impressed. Atlus is pretty cool though. I played the games as a kid to a teenager to an adult now.
I just finished Metaphor the other day and holy shit. Martira is great, but the game just keeps getting better and better as it goes on. It’s actually insane cause you just go “they can’t top this” and then they do
My main gripe with the game is that it loves to be super heavy handed with the foreshadowing. I have yet to run into a twist I didn't see coming literally hours away. Like... we all knew Heismay was going to be innocent there long before you even get the option of going after him right? And that Joanna was behind the kidnappings the moment you meet her? They even have Heismay act as if he could be the bad guy for a while for no reason, despite every player already knowing that he's your next party member.
spoiler further ahead: Dont get me started on stuff like Rella pretending to be evil for like 10 minutes total. Or Basilio walking around with a floating weapon on his back the whole game, gee wonder if his brother without a weapon will die and then he becomes a partymember.
AHHHH I WISH THE NEW DRAGON AGE WAS LIKE THE OLD ONES. It's this insane, sanitized version of the world where it just assumes the audience knows racism is bad without actually getting into any ideological discussion, or trying to convince anyone who might be playing that is a racist that it's wrong
As it turns out, making every game low fantasy can limit your writing options. I really hope they choose to lean further into doing proper high fantasy again.
@ about 29 mins I really thought he was gonna say level Maria for the exp boost she unlocks 😅 a lot of the link unlocks are good tho tbf so can't really go wrong/don't have to min max them particularly
It's surprising to me how far Woolie has doubled down on the "Don't rock the boat" reading of Persona 5, as though the game failed to deliver an anarchy ending where the Phantom Thieves DO use their power and influence to turn society upside-down. *Except that Persona 5 already has that answer* . If you accept Fake Igor's proposal to essentially become his new Wardens, guess what happens? The Phantom Thieves become the top of the food chain, and society begins to stagnate for fear of being struck down by the Phantom Thieves for daring to force change. In the name of 'freedom', the liberators instead become the oppressors. The Phantom Thieves themselves spend most of Act 2 questioning "Are we really doing the right thing?", and it _boggles_ the mind that Woolie missed this incredibly critical introspection.
The writing is strong in Metaphor, but some moments felt contrived. What puts Morris under Bardon's suspicion is that he never reported that Heismay was a eugief. But why would Morris not report Heismay's race? Did he and Joanna not know who they were framing? And this isn't the only twist that revolves around a character not giving a detailed report.
I feel like I'm going fucking insane. I've avoided podcast spoilers until I got to play the game myself, and have spent the better part of two hours looking for takes about Joana because I'm in awe of how badly I think it's handled. I am incredulous with how far backwards the game and its audience at large are willing to bend for a child serial killer. It's okay, expected, the moral thing to do, to have sympathy for victims of fucked up shit. The second they create more victims, on the scale presented here, they forfeit being a human. The fact not one fucking voiced line is dedicated to anything but total understanding and pity for a monster is genuinely stomach churning. Not even a single unvoiced dialogue choice, it feels so disgustingly manipulative. Some town NPC dialogue is all you get, and God forbid you do the dungeon on the final day because then you wouldn't even get that. Stohl has two fucking whack lines about it I can only pray to daddy Jesus are simply clumisly translated and not the original intention. I don't mean to imply you can't sympathize with monsters. I'm saying they don't deserve it. I'm gonna do my damnedest to not let this ruin the game for me. I've been loving it so far. But this has been the most negatively affected by a piece of media I've ever been, and that's some bananas shit for a medieval persona game.
Joanna had me so worked up, if the game had given me the option to kill her on the spot I would've done it. It would've taken the party stopping Will Metaphor if it was an option. I don't think thats a criticism, I think its an intended way you can take it (being more forgiving is just as real) and I appreciate that Metaphor gives you at least dialog that represents both sides of that even if it doesnt go to a tangible effect.
I gotta disagree, I was pretty annoyed when they just stood there and watch her get executed, her dying won't bring anyone back. Her showing up on her own proved she saw what she had done so she should've been stripped of her status and work for the town for the rest of her life. Also would've been a good time to stand against Forden's authority. I wasn't a fan of the writing in general, I found characters to be one dimensional, at least as far as I got, I got bored halfway and dropped it.
I feel like the only person who thinks the game started super strong and then slowly went downhill as the game went. Some of the "big" twists in the game feel pointless and like it doesn't change anything at all. I also didn't like Heismays speech in this section that much either because regardless what happened to either of them she has directly murdered DOZENS of children at this point. The party in general shows her a sickeningly amount of sympathy. Yeah what happened to her was horrific but the limit of what they csn do and still feel sympathy for them was crossed a hundredfold. In the end I really like the game a lot but it felt lacking compared to P3, P4 snd P5. Despite only having 8 ranks of bond they felt even more repetitive and one note that Persona partymember ones. The only bond that really hit for me was Marias. Heismay has a good beginning and end but most of it feels like the same talk and events over and over. Lots of complaining i know but its still like a 8/10 for me. Loved it but disappointed in a few areas cause of very high expectations from Atlus
Glad I wasn't the only one thinking this. It felt like an even worse version of the Akechi thing in Persona 5 where the party becomes far too sympathetic to a murderer because they were sad once too. "The rumours painted Heismay as a criminal, but I chose to believe in him. I want to extend Joanna the same grace." HEISMAY DIDN'T KIDNAP AND MURDER BABIES
Is it just me, or are the characters overall super boring(EXCEPT Heismay)? Also the fact that you cant just say fuck you to that lady for feeding kids to a monster instead you have to pretend she is honorable for giving herself up after she tried to kill you just sucks.
I'm not that far into Metaphor yet (I'm in the middle of the first trial) but I'm genuinely confused about all the praise the writing is getting. The political and racial issues are handled with the nuance of an after-school special. I sure wish all the racist and pro-fascists in my neighborhood were so open and vocal about their views (like the NPCs) so I didn't have to guess. 😂 The playable characters didn't even have a personality beyond their one "thing" until we left the first city. At least they've gotten better but so shouldn't have to wait 8-10 hours before the game starts giving me reasons to care about anyone beyond their respective trope. And don't get me started about the villains and the other candidates (who in most cases also are villains it seems). The board members in FF7 feel less over the top than them. Not really a foundation on which to have a nuanced narrative about the important issues the game attempts to tackle (and so far is failing miserably at). It doesn't help that every character wants to be in a Kojima game and thus talks way too much about every single little thing without actually adding much of value. I will admit the in-game explanation for the soundtrack was very cute.
Everything is More's plan, he wrote the book because his fantasy utopia turns out to be just Tokyo. Also the fantasy world you're in is post-apocalyptic Japan, *specifically* Etrian Odyssey 1's post-apocalyptic Japan. You literally go to Lost Shinjuku, EO1's final dungeon, come back and then more or less pretend it didn't happen.
@@dancinginfernalBecause he's a bad troll doing it on purpose thinking it will get a rise out of Woolie or Pat, not realizing they don't read youtube comments.
The Heismay/Martire arc figuratively slapped me out of my chair every time I thought I could guess what was coming. "Oh Heismay's son was probably killed by a Human and he's out here on a suicidal revenge hunt right? Or got sacrificed by the army like with Strohl's hometown?" "Actually his kid was beaten to death's door in a riot and refused lifesaving medical attention for his race." "O-Oh...well Joanna is caring for this creepy demon baby because the man she loved was killed and it's what they were never able to have right?" "Actually she did have a kid with him but the nanny killed it for being a 'godless abomination' and her family was openly happy that happened." "Jesus Christ."
Metaphor really doesn't get enough credit for the fact that nothing in the game is ever as simple as it seems.
Well actually, his son was trampled to near death and no one came to save him until Heismay arrived too late to do so.
Eaxctly!! This game is special, in my opinion it the best story atlus has made which there is not competition tbh lol 😆 as there not really a lot lol @@kaijuultimax9407
I think my favorite part about early-midgame Metaphor is that its literally just a Wacky Racers episode.
If they ever do an expanded version of the game like they do with...basically every other rpg they make, I'd love even more goofy attempts at sabotage from the likes of Milo or the other more minor candidates during this part of the game.
It reminded me of someth8ng like steel ball run. What a unique setting that also fits perfectly with the calendar system
Now there's an idea, Runners Racing but you can bump and bash against each other and when at a low enough Runner HP you get to fight their riders.
That "I KNOW" hit like a freight train and immediately cemented Heismay as one of the best characters I've ever seen. Absolutely incredible voice acting on the part of Phillippe Spall to deliver such empathy and pain in two words.
choosing between Spall and Ohtsuka is so difficult
"Don't mind me." The cartoon bat man after the gang apologizes for tying him up. I love the boy, he has such small grandpa energy.
He said he thinks of me as his kid and I would have brought him thirty tiny ties for retroactive father's days if I could
I think about Heismays son a lot. Im an ex Paramedic, and I've seen my share of scenes like that. The way he described it, I could clearly see it. That stays with me as much as real calls do.
Heismay is bat Uncle Iroh. I love him.
"O POWER OF KINGS"
OH HOLY LIGHT!
YOU THINK YOURSELF EQUAL TO A EUGIEF'S AGILITY??
@@rikimaru700 SOME DARKER ARTS
RRR-RANCOR
"my son will have to wait a little longer..."
Heismay and Joanna were peak.
Exponentially enhanced by the reveal for the unspoiled that Heismay wasn't a goofy mascot character, but the realest fucker in the party.
thank fucking god he was those archetypes need to fucking go imo
@@drunkdonkeydude so thankful for that. Morgana was alright but I don't miss him and I'm actively angry whenever Teddie is on screen
Koromaru is the goodest of boys though so he gets a pass
@@GanguroKonata Koromaru is the funniest of the lot, honestly, because he's literally Just A Dog. He does dog things. but he can also summon a persona, and that's funny
My favorite line from Heismay is when he reads a passage from your fantasy book. He sees how it talks about equity and everyone has a chance at success but then Heismay says that equality is nice and all but it doesn’t mean shit unless it is truly a level playing field and is aware of the massive societal change that would require. I’m paraphrasing what he said obviously but that acknowledgment was mind blowing to me.
This and Strohl pointing out things being decided democratically does not necessarily in itself mean it will be the 'right' decision, and the issues in division such a system can create was wayyyy more mature than I thought the game would go. I really was pleasantly suprised the Fantasy Novel is geniunely thought on by some characters critically, both accepting its hopefulness but also bringing up issues, and usually ones that are relevant to how they see the world.
Having Gallica be the Mage Archetype line and having her be one of the very few Bonds that are story locked is so evil that I'm honestly kinda impressed
While Martira is an emotional high point, I feel like the rest of the game is not that far behind. The game is just really really good.
What I like most about Joanna's death is that I talked to my brother about it and he just said "well yea what you didn't think they would kill her right there" and I said "It's not that I thought they wouldn't kill her I just thought it was rather abrupt" and he said "well what its like the middle age type setting right, it makes sense for deaths to be public executions" but like I just couldn't wrap my head around just doing it right there right away, figured the church would want to do it behind closed doors, so like the MC and the group I was just not happy or sad just caught off guard
Forden wanted it known that he has nothing to do with the humans so he made it known in a very noticeable manner. It's like the IRL medieval Catholic church in that way
" i don't want to dedicate character to buff "
Me with charge , debilitate, concentrate, adventurer's curiosity and *spoiler* :
Meanwhile Hulkenberg link is just :
"I sucks as a knight"
"For the 20th time,no you don't."
Hulkenberg is better just in the story outside her link just being a general goof of a knight gushing over Junah, her being overly serious at mundane shit like addressing people
@@sdbzfan1 or how whenever she sees something new and her first thought is; Can I eat it? XD
Hulkenburg’s character: “actual fucking dirt! YUMMY!”
Louis is my favorite Atlus villain. He’s SUCH a piece of shit and it’s great
The more i see of him and more i love him. The man decided to be piece of shit and decided to be the realest possible about it and its great
I have also reached Town three and I must say, Louis is just absolutly amazing. He is a asshole JRPG Main Villian, but he is also so honest and just as involved in the race as the MC is. No "I planned this years ago and everything that happens is according to Keikaku!". Instead the dude is just as blindsighted as everyone else and just went "okay, I guess we are doing things this way now, huh?". I love him.
@@plinfan6541EXACTLY! He's so honest and straightfoward.
That moment when Strohl confronts him about the destruction of his village and he's just like "Yes i did. It was a part of the plan and i'm sure you grow stronger out of it as well". He's too real for me to hate him
The scenes with Louis in town 3 and 5 cemented him as the GOAT for me. What a piece of shite. Love to hate him
Louis is great because he owns being terrible without feeling sorry for himself,
man looked us dead in the eye and says all the bad things he's gonna do
He's like Akechi mixed with Adachi without either of the things both of them have that make them suck, Adachi's refusal to see reality that he made his life suck and Akechi's inability to see value in others
Louis respects strength above all else so he's perfectly happy with the MC getting in his way multiple times because he wants strength to rule,
he's exactly like Lucifer just being Chaotic Neutral
Heismay is one of the best Party member in general, His Conversation pre and post boss fight is peak Metaphor with it competitor is a spoiler so otherwise top 3 persona dads
Most sane take ever, number one party member has to be between Heismay and the last character to join
Heismay is by far my favorite RPG character. Never expected this from his character design alone. They cooked with his story and especially his voice actor
akio ostuksa aka solid snake black jack etc etc can fucking cook
Louis is straight up the best villain in a JRPG we have seen in awhile.
He’s a FORCE as soon as the game starts and remains that way all the way till the end
True, you can actually love to hate the guy. There are no redeemable quality besides his looks.
@@phillemon7664 The thing is, in a lot of people's eyes-- Louis is incredibly, well redeemable is the wrong word; for a lot of people Louis would have literally done nothing wrong, if he weren't just a character in a game. He is a strong man leader who challenges a broken system, says it like it is, and is upfront and straightforward with his intentions. He is a man of our times-- Authoritarian, but through a populist lens; a strong man that promises change and vision; a cult of personality with the means to carry out his vision. He would fit right in the global political environment we live under.
@@aarlanng
Well also he hacked the God candidate choosing system and has the support of the fucking evil looking thing with tentacles, glowing eyes and heat coming off of it in the sky bellowing in the sky that your right helps
And also if you just did it a little faster, he legit would have died.
He was surprised. It made it better.
23:00 That "rainy day" ring isn't quite as good as it sounds, since bad weather is extremely detrimental in this game and makes it so all your crits and weakness exploitation no longer activates press turns, which severely diminishes your teams potential. You do get extra xp on those days, but it's not really worth it honestly. You generally want to avoid going to any dungeon during bad weather if you're not overleveled already.
That ring just helps compensate for that downside, but it's still usually worse than extra turns.
I can't believe it's been 7 years and Woolie STILL thinks that P5's ending message is "Be rebellious, but in a society-pleasing way", when it's actually "Large-scale societal change is impossible unless the public masses lose their apathy and work together to challenge the status quo".
OH MY GOD SAME! I’m so tired of hearing that statement.
How can society change if society itself refuses to change? It’s *in the damn song*
It’s like, yeah at first I can see how “rebel against society” is the initial messaging, but that last dungeon really puts in your face, in a very non-subtle way, what the game is about.
Like you said, the game spells out “all of the suffering you have been fighting against is because people don’t want to change the status quo”.
Now if only this comment got enough likes for him to actually see this.
And so they blamed the beasts
@@thirdeye9698 P3, 4, and 5 literally have the core message as the title of their theme songs.
Burn My Dread: Live life to the fullest and forsake your fear of death
Pursuing My True Self: Accepting comforting lies will ultimately bring suffering long-term.
Wake Up, Get Up, Get Out There: Nothing is going to change if you sit down accepting your fate
I'm kinda surprised that UA-cam isn't flooded with spoilers of this game.
It is a bit. I got spoiled on what I think is the last party member because of a build thumbnail. I only just got party member #4 after heismay
cause the game is mid and nobody cares
We're living the real-life story now. That's probably why.
@@siliconwingsWhat do you know, fantasy is not dead after all. Looks like you're actively living in one.
Personally, I only have watched metaphor content in the music and CSB vids. That normally shud be enough but maybe atlas is culling off vids or algorithms but being more low-key than usual?
The great thing about Metaphor is in how honest and nuanced their characters are. Heismey is a high point, but he isn't the best character for me so far. The one you get in the 4th town resonates with me a lot strongly, though partially that's probably because I'm a minority whose cultural footprint is nonexistent at the macro scale, whose identity is slowly being eroded by the hegemonic forces of an imperial class. The sense of isolation and invisibility is a shade of discrimination that isn't often depicted within media and I'm super pleased with the way they represented it through the party member and the Mustari people.
Each of the characters are great and reflect a reality that is lived and experienced, each of them eventually grow into the closest thing to a platonic ideal (or heroic archetype, heheh) of what they represent-- Strohl as the exemplar noble and member of a privileged class; Hulkenburg as the knight/soldier and her struggles with duty and ideals (tbh I do find her Social Link to be one of the weaker ones); etc. This is done well enough that I can see a huge variety in the choice of characters that each players end up as their favourites.
On the Commander Archetype, at its second form it gets an attack called Frigid Fortress Stratagem that is, for my money, one of the best abilities in the game. That attack carried me all the way to the final boss
The hesitancy on early Alonzo progress is hilarious because it's secretly
SPOILERS
one of the best midgame sustain DPS if you support its Synthesis options. 0 mp screenwide almighty? Yes, please!
Heismay is THE BEST! One of my favorite characters Atlus has ever written.
I didnt expect to like Heismay as much as I did especially since im not a father but my brother is going to be and i think its rubbing off on me a bit cause I can't wait to teach that kid as they get older, but the stuff both Heismay and Joanna went through are so fucked that while I still think she deserved what she got, the pain she went through i dont wish on anyone, and Heismay's dislike of Paripas I think rings a cord with most people where it only takes a single bad experience to paint your whole view of groups of people even if they dont deserve the brush, but I do like his convo with Junah later about how just because he's a Eugief doesn't mean he's suddenly got perspective for Paripas which is true in our world too, just because two people are hated doesn't mean they suddenly come together in both being minorities
This part is crazy for me because I ran smack dab into this scene without context and was entranced and horrified by the writing, the voice acting, and horrific monster boss at the end. Its tragic and hits the heart in a way that really feels lile not being shackled by the Persona age demographic let them spread their wings.
Reminder that persona is a mature rated game
@@Vanity0666 yes but you're following around a bunch of teenagers doing teenager shit, with the intent of selling this teenage life to teenagers. If I have to sit through another whack ass accidental bath scene I swear. I'm so happy everyone in Metaphor is an adult.
@@aarlanng at least the one in P3 was because junpei is an asshole and the group was like: "OH FUCK OH NO OH FUCK" and then they gave you a stupid little mgs sneaking scene
@@wumbojet yeah but I think there's where the strength of Metaphor shines in comparison to the Persona games, in the Persona games there's always this layer of cynicism behind the narrative design decisions-- like in the P3 example, they're like "ok we know this isn't the best look but we'll give it to you anyway but in a way you feel less gross about it"; similar case with P5 and the whole Anne situation; or the whole emancipation rhetoric.
In Metaphor, they don't make nearly as many compromises. It's clear they had a vision for the game and its message, and that message is expressed boldly and with sincerity, instead of the ideals existing as a prop to be touted when relevant, the ideals are the driving force propelling us forward-- almost every scene or major experience in the game is done so with the intent of reflecting the message and vision they had in mind. It's so refreshing, not just in terms of Atlus games, but in contemporary media in general. It weirdly reminds me of Disco Elysium in a way.
@@aarlanng Eh I would argue P3 is similar in that regard overall even if that one bath scene wasn't needed. A lot of those problems with Persona's writing came mainly from 4 and carried over to 5. I still love both of those games but there was for sure some sort of shift in how things were handled and what was prioritized in the writing.
YES MORE METAPHOR TALK!!!
Heismay is a great character I agree. As for Joanna, I think the point you made about the NPCs and civilians treating her more believably than our intentionally idealistically characterized party does helps a lot. It can feel like she gets too much breathing room for heir justifications when you only take the main characters into account, but the game is about what other people outside you hero group thinks so you have to engage with the fact that NPCs are the way you see how the events of he plot are reacted towards.
Hearing Woolie talk about what he likes in stories just makes me think he really should be playing CRPGs like Witcher, Baldurs Gate, Dragon Age, Pathfinder, Fallout, Tyranny, etc.
Seems to be way more his thing than JRPGs.
From a story standpoint maybe, but the mechanics would probably be too much for actual CRPGs, he was already struggling with them in some other games from what I remember.
Metaphor might be my new favorite game just... in general.
Heismay is my favourite charcter because he can drain an entire set of turns for a boss with one dodge. Also the death of his son reminded me of my dog dying last year so i liked his social link
Late game Heismay be like "Hippity hoppity your turns are now my property"
@kartikayysola fr, genuinely so grateful for him, especially with the final bosses
Basilio and his Scouse accent make me so happy, I love bonk dog
Legitimately, my only problem with this game is it feels like there's a dungeon missing. But everything else, borderline perfection.
I felt the same way! I'm about to finish the game (literally in the final dungeon), but it sort of felt like the party member you get after Heismay should have gotten a dungeon more focused on her, but instead as soon as you get her you're shuffled onto the next area and the next party member is central to that dungeon.
There is. One of the dungeons that was supposed to be in got cut and will be DLC.
@@RavenCloak13 OH GODAMMIT ATLUS
@@RavenCloak13 The fact that I know what it is without you saying what it is irks the hell out of me
I've never been so visibly disturbed and wanted to END something so damn badly as that Joanne boss fight.
Lil bro had to GO
I’ve always said Persona needs more old man party members again
Heismay has only strengthened my resolve
"he's still racist and who can blame him" might be the best Pat out of context in a while lol
I've been waiting for this
GOTY. At least I hope it wins it.
Sure. It being a new IP makes it more rootable for me (even if I do have some love for remakes.)
heismay and basillio are easily some of the best written party members the persona team has ever made
Go play the Trails series.
Nice spoilers when Woolie clearly isnt there yet you colossal dunce
@@blackdragoncyrus”the persona team” i agree that Trails characters are the gold standard
I wish we got basillio sooner. By the time we get him there are like two dungeons left or something. It felt very short
@@PonrokoArchive I like that unlike Akechi and Naoto he's in the party for a time just not playable thanks to the dragon temple making him have to stay with his brother
Must. resist. watching quite yet. Have. Essays. To. Write!
Himsmay, my goat. Metaphor is so good and i loved every party member and felt legit bad I couldn't make time for Basilio, i maxed out everyone else's links
Heismay and Basilio are peak fiction, and this game is easily the best that the Persona team has put out.
I am of the belief that Joanna got what she deserved, but she should still have a fair trial, even if all the evidence is quite clear. Getting executed right on the spot without trial, even if Strohl said that would be the expected outcome, was a surprise to me.
I admit i was kinda surprised when they didn't bring the redacted with them with her to the redacted. like the fucking thing is right there and its clearly dead and also clear fucking evidence
She did kinda confess in front of a massive crowd, and everyone was kind of in the middle of the race. I also don't entirely know if the realm does "trials" in our sense of the conceit. She copped the crime, multiple people backed up her confession, open and shut as far as the law is concerned.
I fucking ADORE Heismay. He is without question my favorite of the group, including waifus and Maria.
29:45 Ugh yeah this kinda pissed me off, especially when Hulkenberg's Heroic requires levels in the mage line, which I did not build her for the whole game since her magic stat sucks.
The secret is that personal damage stats don't matter much in this game. Weapon damage affects damage output much more.
So someone with a low magic stat is only a slightly worse mage than someone with a high magic stat.
I am glad Metaphor delivered as a new non-remake RPG universe.
If Metaphor wins best score does that mean we'll hear monk chanting at TGA
it's game of the year nominations that get music played, and since it was nominated for GOTY it's safe to say we'll hear some monk chanting at TGA regardless of who wins what
11:15 Let me just say that people are crazy for calling Woolie crazy when he's bothered by these kinds of things.
He is because he made up these problems to these things that were addressed but not thrown in your face like you're a child who needs everything specifically explained to your face.
@@RavenCloak13 he's referring to inexperienced characters speaking from their high horse about "whats wrong" without ever actually acknowledging what about it is wrong, why someone could be driven to the edge, or that the villain is also a victim. These points are ACTUALLY INTERESTING to watch characters come to terms with and makes them into actual characters and not convenient vehicles for the plot to move forward. It does not matter if the player/reader understands as this is not what Woolie is even talking about, from a writing standpoint feeling that the characters understand and can relate to plot developments just leads to a better product in general
Heismay was such a u-turn for a character i expected. He looked all cute and marketable and i thought "okay here's our Teddie" only to realize he is the most mature and tragic character on the team that i refuse to swap.
2:45 I gotta slap Woolie on the wrist for this p5 bit cause he is more wrong than he’s ever been. He’s referring to a bit from p5 where the characters are explicitly and deliberately (from the writers perspective) incorrect as they change society to gain their approval rather than because it’s right. P5 does this really interesting thing where the characters represent the antitheme for 90% of the story as they tackle the symptoms of societal issues but not their source. But they do learn their lesson after Shido and specifically go against the will of the people and do what is right for society even as their collective will is screaming at them to stop.
GRIEF IS IT'S OWN DEATH, SO WE WILL SHOW YOU LIFE
Hmm, I'm surprised a lot of people found the characters amazingly written. I'd expect most people to think they were redundant and one dimensional. That's pretty cool. Because this is a cool game. For all the years I've been watching TBFP guys, I didn't think Pat would be impressed. Atlus is pretty cool though. I played the games as a kid to a teenager to an adult now.
I just finished Metaphor the other day and holy shit. Martira is great, but the game just keeps getting better and better as it goes on. It’s actually insane cause you just go “they can’t top this” and then they do
I really wish this channel would LP this game
pat is doing a stream of it on his solo channel god i wish woolie would
@LegallyBlindGaming727 Woolie has too many long games on his backlog as is. Let em enjoy a game on his own time for once.
My main gripe with the game is that it loves to be super heavy handed with the foreshadowing. I have yet to run into a twist I didn't see coming literally hours away. Like... we all knew Heismay was going to be innocent there long before you even get the option of going after him right? And that Joanna was behind the kidnappings the moment you meet her? They even have Heismay act as if he could be the bad guy for a while for no reason, despite every player already knowing that he's your next party member.
spoiler further ahead:
Dont get me started on stuff like Rella pretending to be evil for like 10 minutes total. Or Basilio walking around with a floating weapon on his back the whole game, gee wonder if his brother without a weapon will die and then he becomes a partymember.
Just finished town 2 was insanely good I played for hours straight I couldn’t put it down
AHHHH I WISH THE NEW DRAGON AGE WAS LIKE THE OLD ONES. It's this insane, sanitized version of the world where it just assumes the audience knows racism is bad without actually getting into any ideological discussion, or trying to convince anyone who might be playing that is a racist that it's wrong
As it turns out, making every game low fantasy can limit your writing options. I really hope they choose to lean further into doing proper high fantasy again.
@ about 29 mins I really thought he was gonna say level Maria for the exp boost she unlocks 😅 a lot of the link unlocks are good tho tbf so can't really go wrong/don't have to min max them particularly
Haven't played an RPG in a while. Might give this one some time if it fits in my budget.
Guys I… I feel like this game is a metaphor for something…
It's surprising to me how far Woolie has doubled down on the "Don't rock the boat" reading of Persona 5, as though the game failed to deliver an anarchy ending where the Phantom Thieves DO use their power and influence to turn society upside-down. *Except that Persona 5 already has that answer* . If you accept Fake Igor's proposal to essentially become his new Wardens, guess what happens? The Phantom Thieves become the top of the food chain, and society begins to stagnate for fear of being struck down by the Phantom Thieves for daring to force change. In the name of 'freedom', the liberators instead become the oppressors. The Phantom Thieves themselves spend most of Act 2 questioning "Are we really doing the right thing?", and it _boggles_ the mind that Woolie missed this incredibly critical introspection.
Heishim
The writing is strong in Metaphor, but some moments felt contrived. What puts Morris under Bardon's suspicion is that he never reported that Heismay was a eugief. But why would Morris not report Heismay's race? Did he and Joanna not know who they were framing? And this isn't the only twist that revolves around a character not giving a detailed report.
I feel like I'm going fucking insane. I've avoided podcast spoilers until I got to play the game myself, and have spent the better part of two hours looking for takes about Joana because I'm in awe of how badly I think it's handled. I am incredulous with how far backwards the game and its audience at large are willing to bend for a child serial killer. It's okay, expected, the moral thing to do, to have sympathy for victims of fucked up shit. The second they create more victims, on the scale presented here, they forfeit being a human. The fact not one fucking voiced line is dedicated to anything but total understanding and pity for a monster is genuinely stomach churning. Not even a single unvoiced dialogue choice, it feels so disgustingly manipulative. Some town NPC dialogue is all you get, and God forbid you do the dungeon on the final day because then you wouldn't even get that. Stohl has two fucking whack lines about it I can only pray to daddy Jesus are simply clumisly translated and not the original intention.
I don't mean to imply you can't sympathize with monsters. I'm saying they don't deserve it.
I'm gonna do my damnedest to not let this ruin the game for me. I've been loving it so far. But this has been the most negatively affected by a piece of media I've ever been, and that's some bananas shit for a medieval persona game.
I put 78 hours into this game in 2 weeks, and yeah, it's peak. I think infinite wealth just *barely* squeaks by as my goty though
Joanna had me so worked up, if the game had given me the option to kill her on the spot I would've done it. It would've taken the party stopping Will Metaphor if it was an option.
I don't think thats a criticism, I think its an intended way you can take it (being more forgiving is just as real) and I appreciate that Metaphor gives you at least dialog that represents both sides of that even if it doesnt go to a tangible effect.
I gotta disagree, I was pretty annoyed when they just stood there and watch her get executed, her dying won't bring anyone back. Her showing up on her own proved she saw what she had done so she should've been stripped of her status and work for the town for the rest of her life. Also would've been a good time to stand against Forden's authority.
I wasn't a fan of the writing in general, I found characters to be one dimensional, at least as far as I got, I got bored halfway and dropped it.
I feel like the only person who thinks the game started super strong and then slowly went downhill as the game went. Some of the "big" twists in the game feel pointless and like it doesn't change anything at all. I also didn't like Heismays speech in this section that much either because regardless what happened to either of them she has directly murdered DOZENS of children at this point. The party in general shows her a sickeningly amount of sympathy. Yeah what happened to her was horrific but the limit of what they csn do and still feel sympathy for them was crossed a hundredfold.
In the end I really like the game a lot but it felt lacking compared to P3, P4 snd P5. Despite only having 8 ranks of bond they felt even more repetitive and one note that Persona partymember ones. The only bond that really hit for me was Marias. Heismay has a good beginning and end but most of it feels like the same talk and events over and over.
Lots of complaining i know but its still like a 8/10 for me. Loved it but disappointed in a few areas cause of very high expectations from Atlus
Glad I wasn't the only one thinking this. It felt like an even worse version of the Akechi thing in Persona 5 where the party becomes far too sympathetic to a murderer because they were sad once too.
"The rumours painted Heismay as a criminal, but I chose to believe in him. I want to extend Joanna the same grace." HEISMAY DIDN'T KIDNAP AND MURDER BABIES
Metaphor and persona suck
Is it just me, or are the characters overall super boring(EXCEPT Heismay)? Also the fact that you cant just say fuck you to that lady for feeding kids to a monster instead you have to pretend she is honorable for giving herself up after she tried to kill you just sucks.
It's just you.
I'm not that far into Metaphor yet (I'm in the middle of the first trial) but I'm genuinely confused about all the praise the writing is getting. The political and racial issues are handled with the nuance of an after-school special. I sure wish all the racist and pro-fascists in my neighborhood were so open and vocal about their views (like the NPCs) so I didn't have to guess. 😂
The playable characters didn't even have a personality beyond their one "thing" until we left the first city. At least they've gotten better but so shouldn't have to wait 8-10 hours before the game starts giving me reasons to care about anyone beyond their respective trope.
And don't get me started about the villains and the other candidates (who in most cases also are villains it seems). The board members in FF7 feel less over the top than them. Not really a foundation on which to have a nuanced narrative about the important issues the game attempts to tackle (and so far is failing miserably at).
It doesn't help that every character wants to be in a Kojima game and thus talks way too much about every single little thing without actually adding much of value. I will admit the in-game explanation for the soundtrack was very cute.
it's just P5 in medieval clothing. the story beats are nearly identical. i found it incredibly boring because of that.
Like.
"peak writing"
-looks inside
typical persona slop
persona does it better imo. Metaphor still pretty good though.
It's not that deep.
Nah it is
@@blackdragoncyrus me when I hate people engaging with media
Not going to lie, about halfway through the game I just started skipping most of the dialog.
Everything is More's plan, he wrote the book because his fantasy utopia turns out to be just Tokyo.
Also the fantasy world you're in is post-apocalyptic Japan, *specifically* Etrian Odyssey 1's post-apocalyptic Japan. You literally go to Lost Shinjuku, EO1's final dungeon, come back and then more or less pretend it didn't happen.
it really bothers me how that went absolutely nowhere. They font even bother explsining ehy there is a sky and another ocean deep underground.
Why are you just blatantly spoiling parts of the end of the game. What is wrong with you. The game isn't even two months old.
@@dancinginfernalBecause he's a bad troll doing it on purpose thinking it will get a rise out of Woolie or Pat, not realizing they don't read youtube comments.