Це відео не доступне.
Перепрошуємо.
CMMG Bravo 22 Conversion Kit-How Accurate and Reliable Is It
Вставка
- Опубліковано 14 сер 2024
- In this video, I test 5 different 22 offerings in both a Mossberg WW2 era match target 22 trainer, as well as with the CMMG Bravo conversion kit in a 16” barrel with 1:8 twist. Each test group is done over a chronograph, and the velocity results are shown on screen next to the groups upon review.
00:00 Intro
00:16 Test Cartridges
00:57 Test Rifles
01:58 Shooting the Bolt Action
02:45 Bolt Action Groups @50yd and Velocity Baselines
03:53 Installing the CMMG Bravo 22 Conversion Kit
04:54 Shooting the CMMG Bravo 22 Conversion Kit
05:59 Conversion Kit Groups @50yd and Velocity Data
07:59 Offhand Training Drills-22 Conversion Kit
09:13 How Dirty Does it Make the Rifle?
11:35 223/5.56 Accuracy Comparison @50yd
12:34 Final Thoughts/Viewers Chime In
Check out the channel over on Utreon for unrestricted content and more detailed reloading content as well! All content is free for viewing, with subscriber support options available if you would like to support our work here on the channel!
utreon.com/c/T...
utreon.com/c/T...
Disclaimer 1: Handling of various reloading components and ammunition comes with inherent risk. Consult a reputable reloading manual for proper safety procedures, and do so at your own risk. The reloading craft and its members are not responsible for your safety, you are. The content contained herein is intended for entertainment purposes only.
Like & Subscribe Button animation courtesy of Graphics Expert on UA-cam. Used with Permission.
• UA-cam like subscribe...
#Utreon #HK #reloading #sinterfire #frangible #hecklerandkoch #CMMG #22LR #reloadingbench #hornady #lee_precision #redding #redding_reloading #dillonprecision #dillon_precision #lyman #frankford_arsenal #starrett #milwaukee #milwaukeetools #frankfordarsenal #rangeday #waltherarms
The main reason I have the CMMG 22 conversion is for a bug out situation I only need to carry one firearm with the 22 bolt carrier and then I can carry two very light types of ammunition with me 556 and 22 LR it’s the ultimate bug out combo
@@thereloadingcraft i gave .22’s. I only shot it just to check reliability. It just sits in its box. People like to hem and haw about leading the barrel etc etc But if you look at it that way it makes a lot of sense
You won't ever need that....
@@gorillaump5869you don’t know that, plus in a “bug out” scenario I’m willing to bet .22 would be a lot easier to find vs 5.56/223 also if you need to kill small game .22 lr is better then a varmit cartridge like 223
Thanks for bringing this content to me and my girlfriend. We have just ordered this kit and a variety of ammo and all of our questions have been answered in your video. I think a simple Red Dot adjustment with the CCI round nose copper plated and a person could be very accurate with those.🎉
That Mossberg is gorgeous. I would love to pick up one of those classics someday.
It is indeed! If I remember correctly we got this one at an auction probably 10 years ago or so.
It helps accuracy with the cmmg buffer tube plug to hold tension on your cmmg conversation keeping it snug in the chamber and a cmmg weight with the chamber bolt slide. To keep bolt from bounceing back when block slams shut. My cmmg shoots very tight groups now since installed the prices . They really made a big difference in performance. The kits even come with four ejected springs two light springs and two heavier springs and you can even get a higher grade foreign pin up grade . By the way bolt bounce will damage parts . The bolt weight system added will prolong the life of your cmmg And improve your performance greatly with the help of the pressure plug in your buffer tube holding the cmmg in the chamber more firmly
I just put a couple courters in front of my buffer spring and it holds tight af
I did a similar comparison recently myself. Had pretty good accuracy. It did run pretty much flawlessly most of the day. My boys and I ran through close to 500 rounds before it started giving us any trouble. It was pretty dirty by that point though.
That’s not bad! What kind of accuracy were you getting out of it?
@@thereloadingcraft My best group was about 1 in at 25 yd with CCI velosters. The worst group was probably about 4 in with the Winchester super x 25 yd. My AR is a 1:9 twist 16 inch. I put a video up on my channel if you care to watch.
That’s definitely a respectable group for a conversion. I wonder if the 1:9 vs 1:8 makes that much of a difference in coming closer to stabilize it. Either way quite interesting for sure.
Absolutely! Could you share the link to your video here?
@@thereloadingcraft ua-cam.com/video/7x-yNOAZn9g/v-deo.html
If you polish the chamber, the feed ramp, and the action rails (ive uploaded a how to) the cmmg bravo is as reliable a 22 as money can buy. Accuracy is certainly not match grade but it is definitely minute of squirrel out to about 35 or 40 yards with velocitor.
Good video man thanks for posting it
I have had my CMMG kit for about 3 years now and there have been zero problems with it, other than crappy ammo related. I know not all rifles are the same, but my 16 inch, 1:9 twist AR shoots pretty tight groups with good ammo. I would say 2 inch groups or a tad smaller at 50 yrds and about 3/4 to 1 inch groups at 35 yrds, which is plenty accurate enough for squirrels. Cheap bulk ammo does good for just burning ammo or doing drills 50 yrds and under. But yeah, 22lr is very dirty in an AR, but I have gone through 1000 rnds or more at a time and never had a malfunction with the build up. Clean up is not to bad, I just spray it down with non-chlorinated brake cleaner and it washes right out, not much scrubbing. Re-lube and tour good to go. Even if the kit is not very accurate in another rifle, it's still a good and fun option to burn through a ton of ammo.
Good to hear! From what I’ve gathered 1:9 twist usually tends to run them a good bit better than my 1:8, but it varies by barrel.
Interesting! I guess the advantages are a saving of a couple hundred dollars over a .22LR AR-15, along with the exact same trigger, optics, etc., of your primary AR, so you can practice and save money - as long as you aren't concerned with accuracy.
I have a Chiappa arms .22 LR M Four polymer upper receiver conversion, 1-16 twist dedicated barrel w/o a gas port, of course.. I replaced the polymer with an Areo-precision mil-spec aluminum upper receiver and placed the whole thing onto a DTI-mil-spec lower receiver. I placed a Bore Buddy buffer tube plug (retaining the buffer spring to maintain tension at the rear of the bolt rails) to enhance reliability and accuracy, and a Catch 22 bolt catch. This rifle consistently shoots 2.5 to 3 inch groups at 100 yards. I also have a CMMG .22LR conversion kit for my 5.56 AR's. Even though the CMMG kit is super reliable, it shoots 4-5 inch groups at the same distance. I believe this is due to the fact that the Chiappa Arms barrel's twist rate, with no gas port, is optimized for the light 36-40 grain .22 LR bullets, while the 1-7 or 1-9 rate is too fast for the .22 LR.
I would agree, also that’s pretty good for the Chiappa barrels!
@@thereloadingcraft I also did a similar build with the Chiappa Arms conversion kit, but instead of the 5.56 chamber insert at the forward end of the adapter it substituted a barrel collar to mate with a dedicated 16" CMMG .22LR barrel, 1-16 twist rate, without a gas port. I got similar accuracy results with that as well.
I also did the CMMG barrel, however accuracy isn’t quite as good as I was hoping for. Check out my video below if you’re interested
Dedicated AR-22 1:16 Upper Vs CMMG Conversion Kit-Is It Really That Much More Accurate?
ua-cam.com/video/cJXcAC24zkg/v-deo.html
It's good to see a better conversion than what I had to suffer with while at basic training (USAF)....every 6 to 10 rounds would jam
@@thereloadingcraft no clue..
It was back in 1985.
The platform was M - 16 with a 22lr conversion.
Everyone was having issues
@@thereloadingcraft which is the sole reason I have not been shooting.
Don't have my reload room setup yet, and prices are Insane...Still
I went through USAF basic in 1984. One day my chore was to go to the armory and clean the M-16s with the .22 conversion kits. Good times.
Great video, thanks! Got mine mainly for trigger practice. It works perfectly in my PSA AR.
That they do! I have found that they prefer standard strength hammer springs, so any GI-style trigger spring or heavier will set them off just fine 😎
@@thereloadingcraft i am running rise armament ra 434
I love my cmmg conversion kit. I'm able to run drills all the time without spending a ton of money on .223/5.56. No, its not the same without recoil but it's still pretty good to practice manipulating the firearms.
Also, it's a great iguana and toad killer down here in south Florida.
I run mine suppressed with cci subs, cci quiet, stingers or cci mini mags.
The gas can be redirected a little bit just by using a better charging handle and you can make a silicone seal if you'd really like to. For me a radian charging handle is always a great option and even better than my Geissele govt and airborne CH.
me too but honestly there isnt much difference between 5.56 and the .22, to me they both have non existent recoil. But saves you a lot of money when it comes to training
Very helpful comparison, thank you! I just picked up one of these kits, and after a short range session (75 rounds) with a single type of ammo, I was ready to declare it a POS. I did have a lot of reliability issues in my AR too, but I want to try it in another AR (or a couple of others) before I pass judgement. The accuracy was also abysmal, but I was also using the Federal bulk pack 36 gr copper clad HP ammo, which you have shown to be the worst of the bunch. I will try some CCI next trip, hopefully that will help with the accuracy at least.
Fair enough, and agreed the federal 36gr CPHP bulk pack stuff is abysmal. What’s your barrel twist rate?
@@thereloadingcraft 1:8 - I've also learned something since I posted that last comment. I went to the CMMG website to see if they had a help page, or tech articles, that might help on the reliability issue. While searching I did notice on the page for the conversion kit they state "Since .223 WYLDE is NOT a mil-spec chamber, we cannot guarantee fit or function with our 22LR conversion kits". Well, the rifle I was using has a BA .223 Wylde heavy barrel, so... II guess I will start over, next time with one of the 5.56 rifles, and some CCI ammo.
An experienced shooter who casts and shoots his own lead bullets knows that for best accuracy he wants a bullet that is groove diameter or maybe half a thousands over groove diameter.
Under sized lead bullets won't give finest accuracy.
So with an AR we have a .223 groove diameter and we are trying to shoot .222 lead bullets through it.
Not a recipe for accuracy.
There is some variation in bullet diameters from brand to brand and lot to lot. So whatever barrel you have you are going to have to try different brands of ammo until you find one your rifle likes. When you find a brand and lot your rifle shoots well, stock up on it.
What a smart review. Everyone should copy this style
For cheap ammo, CCI standard velocity has been the most accurate for me, using three different 5.56 barrels.
It's also good ammo to shoot suppressed.
A lot of the blowback gas comes from the AR gas system.
I got a cheap upper for 22LR and moved the gas block forward about 5 or 6 mm, to block the gas hole in barrel.
No more hot gas in the face, and a lot less crud to clean up.
Yup, I ended up building out a dedicated AR-22 upper that I use for the majority of my 22 shooting now.
@@thereloadingcraft I didn't get an AR-22 upper, I didn't know they were available back when I got my CMMG kit. I got a really cheap .223 AR15 upper that I could use for .22LR with the CMMG kit. My lower is from my S&W AR15 Sport, I've got a really nice SSA trigger and it's not getting full of .22 dirt with the gas system turned off. Runs a lot cleaner now.
Sweet!! I’ve got the SSA-E in mine, hands down some of the best triggers on the market. Also good thinking turning off the gas that way. Any issues with the gas block trying to walk, or did you dimple it?
@@thereloadingcraft IIRC, the gas block has two set screws in the bottom. I put an allen wrench in via the M-LOK slots in the forend, loosened the two set screws, moved the block forward and torqued them back down. It's blocking 100% of the gas, and the recoil of .22LR isn't going to move the block during my lifetime.
I was going to remove the handguard and spike the hole with steel and weld it. But just moving the block is a lot easier and its still holding. If I ever need another .223 upper this one might be okay, just move the block back.
I do love my SSA! My daughter got it for my xmas years ago, when I was still shooting 200yd HP off-hand matches. It's a good target & hunting trigger. Very safe compared to some target triggers I've used. I think SSAs were used by our Troops and SWAT guys..
At 50 yds the rounds should be much tighter and accurate even with .22’s but you would have to zero scope in for the lighter loads.
I agree. I was hoping for closer to 1” groups or smaller, but the conversion kit in a 5.56 barrel isn’t as good.
Just recently picked up a dedicated .22LR barrel, going to do an accuracy comparison soon!
I’m considering piecing together an AR 15 but still shooting .22. I currently have a M&P 15-22 but would like the ability to shoot 5.56 down the road.
Would I just be using the conversion kit and a .22lr barrel going this route?
A proper AR-22 will use a standard AR-lower (not the reduced magwell variant of the M&P15-22) and a 22LR barrel with a collar and BCG kit such as the CMMG. If you wanted to just do a 5.56 gun with a .22LR CMMG conversion kit you could do that, just be aware it won’t be as accurate as a dedicated 22 LR barrel
Learned a lot, thanks!
I run an olde spikes tactical 22lr conversion in my psa upper, having worse accuracy than I remembered in my old ar, I’ll have to try some mini mags.
Also a ton of stove pipes ( spent casing getting lodged between the closing bolt and the front of the charging handle) any suggestions on remedying that issue?
mine, in a 16" 1-7 with SK yellow box at 50y was .5 to .75
Those CMMG polymer magazines must be something new. The magazines that came with my kit were also polymer, but they more closely reassemble standard USGI AR Magazines.
Yup, they’ve recently updated the magazine design I believe.
I have heard that the Aguila heavy bullet load groups well
I got a kit that would get stuck in my receiver. Got a replacement and that solved that issue but did get debris in my face a few times due to the need for a block in the charging handle and also even with the new kit got jams with thunderbolt lead and armcore copper to the point I had to remove bcg to clear it..one jammed into the barrel requiring me to use a .22 cleaning rod to remove. Going to get the weight kit and reliability kit at some point.
my understanding is its not the gas system that makes these kits inaccurate. AFAIK its because 22lr bullets are between .221 - .222 which is too small to fully engage the riffling. pair that with different twist rates and leading also.
You are correct 👍🏻
They are undersize compared to a regular projectile and are usually being spun roughly twice as fast and therefore over-stabilized
You need to use the cmmg conversion charging handle
It blocks off the gas tube
Keep the blowback from coming around the charging handle and hitting you in the face
Plus it keeps alot of 22 gack out if your receiver
It's well worth the extra coin
If I was still running the conversion kit I probably would, or have my friend 3D print a gas busting insert. I’ve since switched over to a dedicated 22 upper I built, with no gas system and a dedicated 1:16 22LR barrel. Much more accurate and a lot cleaner for sure.
@@thereloadingcraft the only way to fly.
My old ciener kit works with stangers , woodchucks don’t care for it out to 100 yds !
It recommends 36 grain with round tip and round hammer
Having trouble with lead tips cycling. Any suggestions?
If you rest mag on table ive got jams. Just like bx25 on ruger
Love the brass catcher🗑️
Is there any worry about leading the gas port? If not why?
I’ve heard that too, but realistically any component of a 22 LR projectile is pretty soft when 55k PSI from a 5.56 blows past the port to clean it out. CMMG recommends just firing a couple 223 or 5.56 (if your rifle is chambered for it) through after you’re done with 22 to blow out the excess gunk. It’s worked just fine for me, though I usually put 500 or less 22’s through before I blow everything clear with a few rounds of 5.56. YMMV of course.
I have ran 13.5k through mine, don’t worry about it. Just run some 5.56 through it after shooting.
Check out the Bore Buddy upgrade kit
Nice! Looks like it runs well enough…are you planning to reload any with that diy primer compound stuff? I have a little I picked up as a just in case supply but 9mm is the smallest/cheapest caliber I am willing to reload anymore so it will probably just collect dust haha
good info. Thanks
When the Ceiner/Attichison 22lr conversion kit with the .223 nipple,was invented, ARs had 1:12 twist. Accuracy is going to be shit with a 1:8 twist. Also, leading the bore and plugging the gas tube will be a problem. CMMG says to shoot .223 every few hundred rounds of 22lr to keep from plugging the gas tube. My AR became a single shot .223 after a few thousand rounds of 22lr and I had to replace the gas tube..
Yup, definitely not dedicated 22 barrel level of accuracy, and what bothered me the most was the fouling that would come back the gas tube and spit itself all over in the receiver and trigger group. I ended up building a dedicated AR-22 setup and it’s much better, and cleaner!
ua-cam.com/video/WkXSxDh_-H0/v-deo.html
^Here is the build details video for the AR-22
not like it is hard to change a gas tube
What is the AR's twist rate?
Nice video brother
Thank you! This upper is a 1:8 twist
i got the same kit, kept jamming up when resting on bench, from standing i had no issues
Were you pushing up on the magazine off the bench? The mags don’t always fit super tight in every lower, and can rock front to back. If the feed angle changes enough due to mag rock it could cause a miss feed
@@thereloadingcraft that's exactly what was happening, less than ideal but not enough for me to knock it as a bad product, still good fun for cheap plinking
👍 🇺🇲
Looks good. Seemed to function well. 1:8 twist doesn't stabilize 22lr worth a darn so I had no expectation of accuracy. Surprised the Stingers did so well comparatively. Is it the higher velocity, or the lighter weight 32 gr projectile, or the combination? Curious if the 40 gr MiniMag would be more accurate than the 36 gr or the slower 40 gr round nose. Also curious if it will cycle subsonics. I realize that's asking a lot of a conversion kit, but inquiring minds want to know.
Ill try some subs. The spring is fairly light so im thinking it may cycle them
I've shot 40gr CCI and 45gr subsonic CCI out of a CMMG conversion using 1:7 16in BCM barrel (accuracy: 1.25 MOA w/ green tip 5.56). The 40gr shot 2.75" @ 50yds and the 45gr shot 2.5" @ 50yds. I've tried other/lighter 22lr but the groups were horrendous. I did notice the heavier 22lr rounds were more accurate. Also CCI is better quality than bulk ammo so maybe that has something to do with it? I'd like to try Aguila 60gr subsonic 22lr and see if that does better. Great video btw!
@@andrewricker3353 The aguila subs are OK. I tested many rounds using a 7.5" 1:7 and didn't notice a gigantic difference between the subs and extra/38 grain. There is certainly a difference in precision but its pretty trivial when you are using a 7.5" barrel to begin with.
From my own experience: shoot for twenty minutes...spend 45 minutes cleaning all the crud out of your AR's bolt, chamber and bore. It's now relegated to last ditch use.
I too got frustrated with the added gunk in the upper, and decided to build a dedicated AR-22 upper. Much easier mow
*now
Federal bulk ammo gave me a squib with the ccmg kit
Can’t say as I’m surprised. I haven’t had an actual squib with it yet, but I did have one leave the barrel at a stupidly low FPS.
Does the 22lr make more debris in the ar compared to the 223?
Yes, because it’s direct blowback, not locked breech. Also if you’re using the conversion kit, it will be blowing some level of carbon and soot back the gas tube and into the upper. I believe CMMG says to fire a couple rounds of 223 after every 500 rounds or so of using the 22 LR conversion kit to clear out the gas system
Can't find if the conversion kit requires rimfire or centerline ammo out of a 5.56 AR. Anyone have any idea?
If you’re using the CMMG conversion kit in a 5.56 AR, the conversion kit used 22LR
@thereloadingcraft yes that's correct and just to help out others the 22lr conversion kit converts the center fire 5.56 bcg to rimfire 22lr. I tested it today at the range and It worked great no issues!!
I'm surprised a 2-inch bullet jump has any accuracy at all
I bought just for drills and practice.
Where can I get A Mag and convertion kit
There's this crazy place called the internet. You should check it out. It's probably gonna be really big one day.
2 inches at 50 yards with the CMMG?
Correct, one of the best groups out of the conversion kit
What magazines are you running? Those don’t look like CMMG.
Those are the new pattern CMMG ones, and I have since switched over to using the M&P 15-22 mags with the BetterMag adapter with great results
1:8 twist is far from ideal for most 22LR bullet weights. Should use a 1:12 or 1:14 twist barrel.
BoreBuddy . . . BoreBuddy . . . BoreBuddy
Running the buffer plug and the adjustable bolt weight kit. The bolt weight kit is impressive how much of a difference it makes!
@@thereloadingcraftwhat does the bolt weight do?
@@toy4tao adds mass to the reciprocating bolt. Basically (since it’s direct blowback) the only way to control how violently the spent casing is ejected (and by proxy the recoil, and wear and tear on components) is by varying the weight of the bolt. By adding weight the bolt opens slower, allowing pressure to drop more and running cleaner while producing better velocity consistency.
22lr isn't a clean round. Just make sure to clean it good after the range and you'll be alright.
Yup. Ended up building out an AR-22 upper and much prefer that route.
I am very surprised that the accuracy is so poor!
It’s all dependent on the barrel, and you will usually see better accuracy with heavier projos because of the fast twist rate of the barrel.
65gr. Aquila will improve this accuracy
Perhaps, but it’s very hard to find and very expensive. I ended up going with a purpose-built AR-22 upper which provided much better results!
@thereloadingcraft 22lr will do much better in a barrel with 1:16 . But it's also 3 times the price! This is for the budget minded folks who just want something cheap to practice with, and have a backup incase things go sideways.