SPECIAL Warhammer 40k Battle Report: Have we fixed Adeptus Custodes?
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2024
- The Custodes - the venerable guardians of the Emperor.
So magnificent that mere mortals are brought to tears in their presence - such masters of the martial arts a single custode could defend an entire planet - they are the ultimate warrior and designed specifically by the master of mankind to be his personal bodyguard…
except right now they seem to struggle to guard a barn door…
So we thought we’d help them out and run a little experiment.
We’ve done a bit of arcane genetic alchemy and edited the custode datasheet tuning it up and adding in a few rules to try and put the “shield” back into the “shield host”.
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📝 Be sure to watch the video for the player's Army Lists - Ігри
Letting Bard run an army that re-rolls 1's really shows them off to their best 😁
Hahahahha even I can still find a way to roll them 😂 - Bard
Honestly.... a massive points hike, but massive stat boost like this would feel amazing for custodes and extremely thematic.
Every faction feels like they need that, though. Custodes fans are just the most vocal because the whole reason to play the army is a super-super-soldier power fanyasy.
@@ryangoss7891 you're not wrong. The whole game could use a points hike and Stat adjustment. *cough* admech *cough*
They definitely want something but making them infantry knights is just going to feel godawful. It's not fun doing jack and shit to your opponents super special bois that nothing but your heavy weapons can do anything about.
At least knights have bad saves, 2+/4+++ 5+ FNP is blatantly absurd.
@@Lionheart40529 problem with that is GW is in the business of selling models, not making a fun/balanced game. expect more point decreases across the board
@@Bishop5466 Oh you mean basically orks right now. but instead it's a 4+ fnp
Come to think of it, I think this would be a really cool new addition to the channel. Sort of a "we fixed (this unit) segment, where you theory craft a unit to better reflect the fluff, then put it on the table to see what happens.
I think that would be fun?
For sure - I think we’ll continue to mix in these fun experiments :) - Lawrence
@tabletoptactics I'd love to see you guys fix some Aspect Warriors lol
@@tabletoptacticsyou should do grey knights next!
Exactly the direction I want GW to go with custodes! Honestly, the sheer lack of board press you’ll have in full games might well make them arguably “worse” in competitive games. But with each model being such a badass just sounds like so much fun!!
So weird, me and a friend (who runs Custodes) were suggesting these very same tweaks just a few days ago along with a similar tweak to Marines. Double the points, 4 wounds, 5+ Invuln and 5+ FNP. Get them away from a hoard and back to an elite force that have walked the galaxy for thousands of years.
I’ve really been thinking about tuning up the space marines too! Hope you enjoyed the Gauntlet and maybe it will return again soon 😊! - Bard
@@tabletoptactics That was epic fun (although I was a bit concerned you weren't going to make it to the end with those levels of excitement lol). Bit conflicted seeing my beloved chaos getting wailed on but that certainly felt true to the narrative of 40k Custodes. The beginning of an unofficial TT 40k rules set perhaps?
@@tabletoptactics Space marines need 3 wounds, their bolters need to be str 5, AP-1 lethal hits. Chainswords need to be str 5 lethal hits. Marines lack that "feel" of being elite. The problem is, when they made primaris and OG 2 wounds, they also made EVERY weapon in the universe 2 damage, so what was the point. ugh... GW
They've done a "movie marines" scenario where all the marines had the stats of a captain.
@@WhyNot-sb9kk I think the issue is then you do into an arms race of every faction needing to be basically the same. Like if a space marine is 3 wounds, why is a necron warrior on 1? why do eldar only have a 4+ save when they should be bullet doging maniacs? Bumping marines up to 2W already puts them well ahead of most faction basic infantry in durability, the issue is just since there are so many damn marines, ofc everyone is gonna bring the anti marine weapons specifically to deal with them and not say guardsmen
I love these little experimental scenarios. We need a bat rep with these experimental rules, similar to Chef's harlequin bat rep.
Love this, to me Custodes should feel like a kill team in a regular sized game, 6-8 named characters with different skill sets/datasheets. Kind of how the old white dwarf hero hammer rules for Astartes worked.
Yeah right!! They are supposed to be these insanely elite warriors so it seems mad that a whole phalanx of them get deployed. They’d need to be priced accordingly but this just felt fun! Glad you enjoyed buddy! - Bard
And the nice thing is that you can bring sisters of silence for more bodies if you need
It would make it more or less mandatory, which I love, no custard boy should leave home without his sisters.
I gave SoS Stealth in my homebrew Codex. They're all blanks with a strong Pariah gene and insane training.
This was the most fun I have watched in years, please do more of these!
Yess so glad you enjoyed buddy! Have a few more ideas for ones like this up the old sleeves!! - Bard
So happy you guys have done this
Glad you enjoyed buddy! - Bard
Loving the more experimental stuff the team’s been putting out here and on demand! Still very much feels like classic warhammer, just with fun twists you’d dream up with pals. Absolute blast and the unbridled joy you’re all having with the hobby is infectious!
Glad you enjoyed buddy! And big thanks for being an Ondemand member! - Bard
What if you tried running a Combat Patrol with these rules against a 2k army? Because I suspect it’ll be a bit harder once you’re not fighting one enemy unit at a time.
I LOVE Lawrence's happiness! His joy is so infectious! Always so theatrical and invested - but quickly breaks into a giggling and gesticulating maniac. What an awesome guy.
I love this idea! And i might even use such rules in a crusade i was planning as a summonable reinforcement to support an inperium army, a single squad or two to reinforce a beleaguered imperium army, i was also going to have them role a d6 to determine what type and how many custodes could be diverted to assist them from a strike force of the 10'000 that cannot be replenished.
Making them a powerful but nigh irreplaceable resource, just like in lore!
I would probably say between 120 and 150 points per model depending on of it's a warden or Allarus or regular. With the Characters being between 180 and 200 points. If this change was made then Squad sizes would have to be smaller
I agree with this! A good 2000pts game should be 10-15 models!
Would make the bikes so good and useful for movement!
For sure, I was watching thinking the guard should be about 130pts each
@@ryan7883 That would make 3 Custodian Guard 20 points more than the 10 Chaos Terminators in the video. Considering how the entire Terminator squad died to kill a single Custodian, 130 feels far too cheap.
@@revandriel9233I'm relatively certain no amount of points is going to make the Stats as proposed fun to play against
This is how they should be! They should be 1 man units with points appropriate to that. Honestly loved this!
Exactly right!! They’d be way more unique and fun in that sense! - Bard
@@tabletoptacticsdo you have an opinion on how many points you would put these guys at?
@@guyperson7487 GW would never let them have an army where 2k points could be
@@samm2434 I know. That doesn’t mean I can’t try
I don’t care if they are good in tournaments or not, give me my elite force of the galaxy games workshop
Need to do a champion of champions gauntlet and run this against the green tide. But then poor Stig will have to pick a side.
Hahahha amazing! - Bard
Can you plz do this to Death Guard Traitor space marines & fantastic experiment around, well done 👍
Glad you enjoyed buddy! Was really fun spicing up the datasheets! Would be keen to do more in the future - Bard
THANK YOU FOR THIS! Been a rough time for Custodes, and this is a nice way to make the best of that rough time.
For points , I would set them just above wardogs in points (145 to 160) for the regular Custodians with shield captains, terminator or bike based ones being 35 to 50 more per model. This would have you around the 8 to 12 range on models.
Love this concept for videos TTT! 'Subtle' hints and suggestions to GW...!
Love this, good effort trying your own rules.
Really like this alternative videos! Please more!
Glad you are enjoying buddy! We’ve got some more ideas brewing!! - Bard
@@tabletoptactics Sanguinary Guard next please...! 😁
@@tabletoptactics what about the adventures of WAAAGHBoss Makhari? For the Red Gobbo!
In general to assess the point cost it seems reasonable to pit them against increasingly hard fights foes that should theoretically do the same thing (es. melee, ranged etc.) and see how they manage, potentially at 10 points interval, when they can't manage to survive you have your high cap, the previous fight will be you low cap, and with 10 point increases you know your unit is 5 points in between. It could become an actual serie.
I do enjoy these type of videos from you, looking forward to more. I think you've already mentioned wishing something similar in a podcast, but maybe you could come up with a detachment for pure firstborn marines? Perhaps something to showcase their veterancy?
Yeah, 40k is not looking good when a small youtube channel can do a better job at balancing datasheets than a company worth 3+ billion GBP.
TT probably play more games of Warhammer than anyone at GW so they know what's up 😂
This made me chuckle 😄
@@frankcastle_1984 Yeah exactly right I think
And annual profit after all expenditure of £220m
Laws around and expirations of investors just don't jell with this type of media company
Not to take away anything that TT has done here vis faction unfucking, but a channel with their own dedicated app, studio space past it's 1st iteration, and 7 onscreen regulars isn't exactly small.
I hope GW is takin' notes... Soooo many units within every faction really fail at playin' how they're portrayed and I think a nice little series where ya revise every army would be RAD!!!
Yea, this was great fun to watch, and they look like theyd be an absolute blast to play against, which is also something i think Custodes have struggled with. Theyve always felt like a very un-interactive foe
Grey Knights next? Yes please!
I think something I really missed about 8th and 9th edition was how the rules could reflect the factions in the lore. I’ve done my own homebrews for 10th, but they are rather ability heavy. I think you guys did a good job about balancing this unit without giving it too many abilities, just making it feel strong. I hope to see more of these in the future. I really enjoyed watching! (:
I’m really liking these simulations/specials. This along with 120 Ork Boy experiment makes for great viewing.
Glad you enjoyed buddy!! - Bard
Gosh darn those custodes are so beautifully painted
Possibly the greatest Warhammer video ever made.
Next time, these custodes Vs C'Tan
For extra changes, something with mobility I think would help- 8-9 models u need to be able to position where needed- something like a limited use grey knight repeat deep strike?
That would be super cool - or a strat or something like that which allows for them to zip around!! Get where they need to be! - Bard
@@tabletoptactics in HH the Custodes have a 8 or 7" move which helps represent their speed
Now you need to run these rules with a whole army :)
I’d maybe trim a few of the buffs in exchange for a few more models on the board. Having a few more on the board adds some fun I think.
Or - a really out there idea. Custodes could have TWO points costs and data sheets. One is lower, for regular use. And one is Protect the Emperor! Mode and they go super saiyan like this. It’s not likely to happen but a fun twist :)
Happy you are doing something like this! Custodes that actually FEEL like Custodes would be amazing! Sadly it probably won't happen, since that would mean increase in points and therefor less plastic sold
my feeling is that, A) it is very custodian but as an army only having that little models on the table "forces" you to go with single model units to get at least a little coverage. Which basically makes you only take captains and the like.
For thematic play this feels awesome, but for competitive it will have a good chunk of flaws.
But thanks for the experiment, it was really fun to watch custodies feel like the gods of war they should be.
Competitive play is in and of itself a flaw
@@razalfraz6618Pray tell, how?
@@cruelmole he loses too much
You could compare them to knights then tho
@@Onkel_Ranger yeah, that's a comparison that a friend also brought up. With that statline and only having ~10 models on the table, it would feel like fighting against non-degrading infantry nights.
Also from the perspective of the player itself, I personally would like to have a couple of more models on the table 😅
Like 20+ or something, but still having each one impactful because custodes shouldn't be hordy
This I would definitely love the challenge of playing as. It also feels more like the lore.
Please make a series out of this!!!
This felt a lot like playing 40k with friends in the 90s. A lot of silly thematic fun. Where did GW go wrong that this joy isn't present in their channels, paid services or stores?
Thank you for making a video on how to show someone at GW what a beta test would look like.
Please do the rules for the rest of the custodes army. I would love to play test these changes. These rules seem so much more themetic. your rule changes feel more like custodes and ultimately more fun to play. Good work!!
Please, for the love of the Emperor, do the same for Tyranids!
Give Tyranids access to Tank Shock (their baby shock in the one detachment doesn't cut it) and slap twin-linked on their claw attacks. I truly believe that would be enough to solve their issues.
Do Ad mech next! I am absolutely dreading the next balanced dataslate to “fix” them.
This is great. I'm almost done with the dawn of fire series and these custodes feel like the book custodes. Even in there a custodes gets overwhelmed. They can be killed. Just at much effort.
Glad you enjoyed buddy! Certainly didn’t want them to be invincible just wanted them to feel super elite and powerful! - Bard
@tabletoptactics mission 100% accomplished. Maybe make a call to James Workshop. Thanks guys and gals!
Spider's ability to roll sixes never ceases to amaze me. On the other hand, I think Bard made about two FNPs all battle 😂
Hahahaha my rolls will forever defy the laws of averages 😂 - Bard
I like the effort and thought put into this. Have some similar thoughts about how to re point knights to be fair to all. Interested to see what you would do with their dreadnoughts
You guys should definatly do something similar for the right now not so mighty Deathwing.
Ooooo that’s a great shout! I’ll put my thinking cap back on! - Bard
@@tabletoptactics Knights just feel a bit sad at the moment to be honest😂
I was run a Custodes army like this! More content like this, Love it
Please keep these special/experimental videos coming.
It would be nice if the new combat patrol box was worth 2k points.
I thought this was a great way to do it! Loved the energy!
Much as this was a cool experiment, in the room with the terminators they would have hit first round 2 as the defender... Honestly though this is what Custodes should feel like.
This is great, good job guys. This is the fix needed.
Very cool video! I like the idea of a handful of Custards being force multipliers for other imperial armies.. like a few are spread amongst a guard army and give benefits to the squads around them.. but are like 250 points each
Love this idea!! Can imagine a shield captain leading a whole guard regiment! - Bard
I did a similar thing with basic space marines for a campaign in 9th. Gave my friends space wolves all +2 attacks, S4, T5, 3 wounds base (4 on the sgt), Power armored fists and astartes combat knives were given to every model and treated as AP-1, Chainswords were +1S AP-1, Bolters S5 AP-1 2shots RF1, and as a final buff shots were allocated per model not to the entire squad and Melee had to be allocated to the mini actually in base to base contact.
Gave him a Rhino full of Blood Claws & Grey hunters and a razorback full of Long-fangs, the Rhino had a captain and an apothecary in it and the razorback had a psyker. so basically 3 squads of 5 and 3 characters. Then I sort of just ran him against Mobs of Orks, GSC, and Chaos Running mission to mission with a bit of a narrative through line. Ran a lot more like an RPG than a typical 40k game, but the marines felt like marines, allocating the wounds individually made a huge different, Every fight each squad mate came out wounded but alive and the losses were hella impactful. Ruled it so that as long as you were in the aura of a character or Sgt you were in cohesion and could benefit from strats and chapter tactics, aura range was just whatever the leadership of the model was (its was 9th, so higher was better), but minis that were outside that range weren't removed or anything. It allowed them to screen or run off an grab objectives, rush over to different fights that needed 1-2 extra bodies in it for help but not the entire squad. The marines all felt like proper Astartes. Should really do it again with updates for 10th.
worth noting since they were the main enemy for most of the campaign, but we did also drop Orks down to T4, but gave them 2 wounds each, Nobs each got S5/T5 and 3 wounds, while Mega-nobs got S6T6. ...alot of the thinking was Power armor would provide +1T +1W & a 3+ save, While Terminator armor would provide +2T, +2W & a 2+ save with the 5++ for marines specifically, but otherwise that same logic carried over. Scouts were only T4 with 2 wounds, Sister of battle T4 with 2 wounds (the same S5 AP-1 on the bolter. It was sort of a Wonderful moment when I dropped CSM against him and he realized they had the same perks his marines did.
A really good idea to test potential new rules.
I need more of these lol that was awesome!
The word “Custodes” is a Latin word meaning “guards.” The singular is “custos” :)
As a newbie, 1 year in. This makes more sense.
They look stunning. How did you paint them? I want to have solar watch Custodes but really struggling to get the colours to my liking
Thanks
Thanks very much!
You never want to see a Chaos Warriors Taint
Totally agree on the 5+FNP - it’s a game changer and in an army of 30 models it’s clutch. I’ve been playing a few experiment games with mates too and this is what really boosts them and makes them almost feel like custodes again. I really hope they get a fix and this is included!
…..would you allow these rules in one of your tournaments to test them out at all?? I don’t think what you’ve proposed is over the top; would be great to see some meta data on it!
So we tested this in a 2000pt game last night. Did a rough points update of double the usual (probably should have been a 175% increase rather than 200%). It was definitely more lore accurate and the Custodes took punishment from a full Death Guard list for 4 turns and annihilated anything they came into contact with but it was fairly boring. Both of us found it to be a bit of a dice rolling slog rather than a fun time at the table. It took the entire first turn of DG shooting to kill one Custodian Warden! There is a balance in there I think with a less imposing stat boost being introduced along with a moderate points increase. Say 150% of where they are now both stats wise and points.
As far as points cost, you basically made them into boxnaughts. Depends on the rest of the rules but I would suggest between 130 and 160 per.
As a comparison, Deathguard terminator characters run about 80 or so for T6W6 with less damage output and less toughness. So they can't be less than that imo.
Loved what you did here, gives the Custodes a real narrative flair.
It was interesting that you chose to allow the person who's turn it was to go first in that round of combat, which gave each unit its chance to shine. However, it did mean the Terminators in particular didn't get their second round before the Custodes. Would have been interesting to see how the Custodes fared against that without their -1 to hit. Though one could consider such a small unit count army perhaps gaining a rule similar to fights first on turns where no charge occurred? (So the only way to get the drop on them is to charge them). That might be too good at full scale though...
Speaking of, I would love seeing you guys try out something like this at 1000 - 2000 points. I don't know Custodes lore too well, but I think given how well the regular squad was doing, don't worry about lots of characters. Instead, make a reasonable number of very small sized squads (2-3, depending on unit type) led by one or two independent characters. The small unit size hopefully gives opponents a chance to wipe out a unit, but each is also a real threat and depending on the decided points may just about give enough units for Custodes to stand a chance of some level of board control.
Further thought - might allow Custodes to play well into the new "Secret Missions" that are coming. Maybe they should struggle with normal Primary points, but could be a real player for aiming for the max 40 from the Sectet Mission.
I’ve wanted these kinda rules since I first heard about custodes, it’s ashame gw won’t ever do this since you’d only need 1/2 kits for an army.
That was a lot of fun to watch. Although having to lean heavily into anti-vehicles/monster even more to clear Custodes when GW appears to be telegraphing the changes to Battleline units seems to be speccing into something just to deal with one army.
Really just double the wounds of all units across all armies
Even the Custodes can't beat the overwhelming power of the Spider's dice rolls
30:23 Personaly I think a 3 man squad of these type of custodes should be 110/model (squad size 1-3). Very expensive but also very powerful. Shield capitan in terminator armor 180 points, and regular shield capitan 150.
This way you can bring this even to 500 point games If you rely want to.
Love those cultist models. What are you using in place of the official kit?
i like these a lot, but i cant really imagine them being more than 120 or so ppm? They are pretty comparable to a carnifex id say, but i guess strats/datasheet abilities could increase it a bit. I do think an interesting rule that would help them would be each squad has an "unleash the lions" style ability, letting them deploy in 3/5 then break into individual units in your command phase. Would give them more flexibility to play objectives while still being a slow super elite army. I would be curious to see what you come up for with for the dreads! good stuff guys, keep it up
The 2nd fight cluster was backwards - The terminators should have gotten to smack back before losing the 6; defender always strikes first - it prevents the double turn conundrum of not killing something on a charge..
This improves Custodes, but for my mind the same general issue remains with the current rules set, and indeed all the ones since 8ED.
Change Mortal Wounds to ignoring FNP instead of Invulnerable saves, and the same for Devastating, and you'll instantly improve the game balance.
You would of course also need to do a few updates to FNP rules on datasheets, and probably some points adjustments, but this would be a major step in the right direction IMO.
What i would point these models
Custodian guard- 130pts
Allarus captain- 195pts
But now you need Trajan 275pts
T-7
W-9
A-10
Axe S-12 Ap-3 D-3
Plus abilities
Blade champ 170pts
T-7
W-8
Melee
A-6 S-7 ap-3 D-3 dev. wounds
A-12 S-6 Ap-1 D-1
A-8 S7 ap-2 D-2 critical hits on 4+
Plus abilities
I dont know? I love this idea though. Lol
Love me some boarding of actions!
Ooh, this but make them 3 to 4 men squads max, and make the stances for each specific squad (vehicles dont get the options).
Its interesting how a UA-cam channel makes it be so fun and doing a good job, but A WHOLE TEAM UNDER GW CANT DO SHIT
The entire custodes should be Characters. Maybe with some getting a "Look Out Mate" Rule to degfend important folk. They should have very few rules that buff other models.
Look like a fun change thank really enjoy the special
Glad you enjoyed!! - Bard
This is exactly the change that I’ve been wanting for forever now. But we all know it’ll never happen because then people won’t have to buy as many boxes
Custodes should individually be triple the points and triple the power considering how they wreck almost everything in the horus heresy books anytime they do anything.
I'd love to see this with a squad of Intercessors/Chaos Marines and Lieutenant type Character
Would love to do a space marine one for sure!! Will give it some thought - Bard
OMG this format was soooo coool, very nice to watch so epic soooooo cooool
Awesome! Glad to hear you enjoyed it! - Bard
I would love if this was how they were played
An interesting idea here! I think the rules feel a little overtuned, but I like the idea of theory crafting fixes to things that don't work well.
Each custodes basically needs to be treated as a dreadnought is for other factions
That gold color scheme on the Custodes is well done
yeah as a custodes player this is phenomenal lmao, as a patch suggestion and as a video, this is very unique and very fun as warhammer content
Glad you enjoyed buddy! - Bard
That was super fun to watch
Awesome glad you enjoyed! - Bard
This seems more like the Custodes should play. Tough, high damage output. A points increase would be completely understandable.
Please tell me you have a document with all these changes that we can see!!
This would be way more interesting to play against. Every custodes counts and is a very strong model. But maybe just 12 total.
Wanna play lore accurate Custodes? Play Knights, put your Custodes on oval-shaped bases and enjoy
Great fun to watch! 🤙😎
That was a fun video. GW needs to do something to help out the custodes because right now they are in such a bad spot
GW would never do this because money (ugh), but man I wish these were how custodes were depicted in table top
tbh, i that the new buffs to battline is a decent enough buff to custodes, we should wait and look at this with the context of the next misson set
Can't wait to see the Lore Accurate Harlequins 🤡