Thanks! I found a used 2005 Decware Zen 84C with some upgrades in great shape for about $350 US - it's limited for features compared to new ones with volume at the back, and only 1 input but the reviews are just phenomenal for the Decware so may just go for it. Any idea if sound difference is big between older ones and newer ones?
@@vintageprinciples JC, I own a zen 84b, 84c, (2)SE84ufo2, SE341.2 and a CSP2. The 84c is a wonderful amp. I run the 84b and c as mono blocks with the CSP2 preamp and Klipsch Chorus II speakers. If that 84c is in good shape, it's a bargain. Sensitive speakers are a must. Klipsch, Zu, Omega and Decware....check the speaker specs! and roll some tubes.
I own this amp and have it connected to a set of Perfect Set 15's from Tekton and I absolutely love this set up. I swear, the next album I put on the table seems to sound better than the last. I have now owned this system for well over a year now and my ears are still in love with each and every song that I play.
This little amp is just brilliant. I’ve had mine for four years and still love it. I use it with 87db sensitivity B&W Nautilus 805 speakers, and it sounds soooo great! Loud enough for me in my medium sized room, and I’m very happy with it. I hesitated for a long time because of the low power, but it is not a problem at all. With high sensitivity Klipsch speakers it will blow you out of the room!
Several years ago I taught my (then eleven year-old) son basic tube and electronics by guiding him through the build of the excellent Elekit TU-870R (now discontinued I believe). Also rated at *only* 2w/channel, it absolutely blew us away playing through a pair of Focal 706s. Enough power to easily fill a decent size room, totally engaging, spacious but detailed soundstage, and absolutely silent at idle. With the power race in amplifiers, many people don't realize what one or two *true* watts can do... believe me they can do plenty. My son took his new self-built amp to his room, and also made off with the Focals... lol. He's still using it, now at college.
As someone who's screamed the praises of the Decware SE84UFO to anyone who would listen(and a few who would't), this award really makes my day. It's really great to actually have our esteemed and sagacious reviewer of all things audio Steve, give a confirmation to what you thought you've been hearing. I play my SE84UFO with Zu (another great American audio manufacturer that Steve has recommended) Omen Mk II DW's speakers with their clarity cap upgrade and 97db 1w/meter efficiency. They really bring out the best the Decware is capable of delivering! Micro detail, frequency range, dynamics and satisfying bass as the little guy is really quick! I've substituted a Majestic Globe 80 for the stock 274b rectifier tube-a nearly 90 year old tube that looks like it came out of the original "Frankenstein" movie of the 30's and I get just an amazing, 3d quality to the overall sound. After about a year, I'm just starting to get into tube rolling as the possibilities are nearly endless. I run a beloved Conrad Johnson PV5 pre from the late '80s, both Systemdek IIX900 and (new )Denon VL12 turntables and a Schiit Modi 3 and Cambridge Audio CXC CD Transport (both are Steve recommended)as my sound sounsources. The bottom line on all this is that Steve will never steer you wrong on the best audio gear for the money. He's saved me probably a ton of money and a great deal of time and aggravation! Steve is THE ALL-TIME GRAND CHAMPION AUDIO REVIEWER and gets my Audio Reviewer of The Year Award!
I remember Joe very interestingly they remind me a bit of making my equipment myself. To the Decware team, congratulations for the 25th anniversary. I remember when I first saw Decware online it was shortly after I had built my EL84SE and it turned out that I and Deckert had built very similar and yes my little amplifier is also bulletproof not once has been any problem even though I have changed and tried all conceivable combinations with tubes and yes I now also use Russian tubes as they are very good. The only two thing that separates mine from Decware is that I dont use rectifier tube and I use pentode mode which has shocked several listeners as they think it is triode so good is the little tube EL84.
@@northern_moss When I’m off work, it and the other two tube preamps I have are regularly on 5 or 6 hours at a time. Matter of fact, they sound better after they’ve been on a few hours.
Hello Steve, I just subscribed and want to tell you I appreciate what you do. You're an audiophile helping us audiophiles learn about all the product out there. The way you break it down and speak to us audience is engaging and entertaining as well-dig your personality! Keep it up man- I'm considering your t-shirt brand- The passion for the details in music made me an Audiophile- Rick E-
@@beforever Hello, I ordered the amp am still waiting on delivery! I methinks me may have been scammed. No response to my questions from the company. I keep hoping against hope.
I bought the 25th anniversary version of this amp and it is an absolute jewel. I drive it from a Decware phono pre or an Oppo 205 into Zu Druid VI's with an Undertone Sub. A favorite addiction.
I'm so jealous. That 25th anniversary amp and phono preamp are lookers. Those two will be my new rig once I get my new place after this bleeping pandemic is over. Because they're low in profile, Klipsch Heresy's are my go to loudspeakers. Rock on.
@@madmex6526 I started my audio addiction with Heresy's and two Dynaco MkIII monoblock kits. And did they rock!. I want to get back to Klipsch horns when I get my mancave built in the basement. I do love those horns!
Steve, this video made my year! I currently have this amp in testing phase at Decware. I have a set of RP600Ms and BR03s waiting patiently. Patiently meaning that the amp was ordered July 13! Great video.. Happy Holidays!
I am kicking myself for selling mine right now. It is an awsome amp! The guybi sold it to told me the amp was the real deal! He paired it with tekton moabs. God i miss it.
Merry Christmas Steve, thank you so much for another year of fantastic reviews! You and Herb, are such honest and real audio guys that even when you review things I am not in search of, I watch just to learn ! I think that makes everyone better in knowing what is out there for us fans of this wonderful hobby. All the best in 2021!
Ordered the six watt amplifier last July and I’m like a little kid waiting for Christmas. Hopefully, will have it by mid January. Decware is at least 20 weeks behind in production so be patient. Thanks Mr. Audiophiliac for the review. You assuaged any second thought. Happy Passover.
To ramp up production, sales and profit, Steve could outsource to China. It's the American way. But then his products and philosophy would not seem so special.
As a result of Steve’s review and this product of the year award, the build time at DECware is now 20+ weeks. I’m glad I already gave mine but 20 weeks would still be worth the wait! Also, Herb will be doing a review, so I guess order now if you really want one.
Mr. Decker puts out VIDS here online and I just decided to leave a message about some speakers that he featured with a link to that companies online store. He surprised me and told me that he thought the company where I thought about buying to 12 inch Full Range speakers was a good idea. I really really like this man's mind ever since the Interview less than a year ago.... thanks! :)
I already got the 600m’s on your recommendation now I’m thinking this would go nice with them. I don’t crank my music so this sounds like my next step, I’ve never had a tube amp.
I got one of these three years ago SE84UFO. It replaced a very well respected SS amp that I used for a long time. I still had speakers with mid-80s sensitivity and it was not bad, but then switched to 97db speakers and I do not think I will ever look back. I run my phono stage directly into it, no line preamp. I have never had better sound. I listen in a small room and have taken a lot of care to set up the system. I rarely turn volume past 12. Gorgeous dynamic full bodied sound. I don’t listen to metal or hip hop but everything else comes across beautifully.
This video was a good surprise. I have been interested in the Decware line for years now. On a similar note I have recently restored and slightly modified a motorola console amp. It is an el84 single ended amp with a 5y3 rectifier and a 12ax7 front end. I use it to power a pair of Klipsch Heresey I speakers from 1979. The speakers are stock except for the caps have been changed to ne sonicaps. I have a lot of gear that all sounds great but this combo blows me away. This little amp has so much detail and depth. It out performs all of my higher power solid state amps. Thanks Steve
Nice award to Decware Steve. I tried to order an amp in August and the expected delivery date was in Nov-Dec. Good for Decware but be prepared for a long wait.
@@madmex6526 I’m sure you’re right about the wait time. Good luck if you order. The Decware would have been a 2nd amp and I had other priorities I focused on. Cheers.
As I’ve commented before I have this amp and it is every bit as good as Steve says, and then some. I’ve done a fair amount of tube rolling, which is ongoing, and can confirm that the circuit is so “clean” that it allows you to hear whatever difference a tube change makes. Lately I’ve been rocking different rectifiers, which has been a blast and has made a surprising difference. I will add that the Zen DOES also benefit from a break-in period. I haven’t tracked my usage, but it has just recently seemed to hit its stride.
Hi Steve, I just ran across your UA-cam channel where you listed some of your favorite speakers. Very interesting. A bit about me . Back in the mid 70s I worked in a high end audio store in Anaheim Ca. They were primarily a ham radio store but had an audio section. Henry Radio was the name and if there are any old guys like me who are ham operators you know the name. I'm no longer in the audio field but still love to read about what is current. My system is ancient...B&W DM6 speakers and a pair of Advents, the original, a Thorens / SME turntable and recently just acquired (for free) a Revox B77 half track high speed reel to reel. But getting back to speakers. As I had a lot of opportunity to listen to various speakers of the time...Infinity electrostatics, Quads, Rectilinear, AR 3As, B&Ws, JBL, ad infinitum I must say the best speaker I ever heard was the AR LST. I could never afford them back then but I wish I would have figured out a way to make it happen. Would love to compare them to the new stuff out there today. I will subscribe to your channel and while I'm probably older than you I bet we would have a lot to talk about.
I have a Decware SE84CKC I bought on Craigslist for $450. What a Bargain. I love it! In My listening room I am surrounded by Klipsch KP301's, Electrovoice horns and Audio Nirvana 8's.
I’m definitely a Decware convert Steve! You’ve reviewed a few of their amps over the years and piqued my interest. I ended up with their Zen Torii Jr. It still has that SET sound, but with a few more watts. The build quality is bombproof, and it’s sound is unreal. Thanks for the tip.
I chose the Zen Torii Jr because I wanted more power, but didn’t want to spend Zen Mystery amp money. It was a toss up between that and The Torii MK IV. I’ve heard amazing things about both, but for the money, I liked the Torii Jr. At 20 watts, I have PLENTY of power to drive high sensitivity speakers. Even with 87db speakers it can go louder than my upstairs neighbors would like, I’m sure. I’ve got a pair of 97db ZU Omens on the way, and with those, in my current room set up, I’ll have no need for more power. It’s an Incredibly transparent amp- sweet highs, lush mids, tight, fast bass. The soundstage is surprisingly big and layered. Also, being a tube amp, the sound can be dialed in to your tastes by trying different tubes(a whole rabbit hole on it’s own), and speakers, etc. The one caveat this particular amp has, is that it must be manually biased when changing rectifier or output tubes. A very simple and easy process, but it does take a few minutes between tube changes, as opposed to the Triode, or MKIV, which are auto bias. I don’t mind this, because the sound is amazing. I have the beeswax bypass mod as well, which I would recommend. All the Decware amplifiers are rock solid, so you can’t go wrong with any of them. I’d recommend contacting Steve(the owner) with any questions. I’m sure he’d be happy to help. They also have an “amp choosing tool” on the website, which can give you more info. Finally, the forums on the Decware site are remarkably informative. If you read some of those threads, or post questions, you’ll get some great insights. Best of luck on your journey! If you get one, you’ll love it.
@@lancelloyd7429 Thank you for this valuable information!!!! Looks like I'm in a similar case then you::) I was looking at the 25th addition of the ZEN, added some extra inputs but in the end, with all the plus thing I'm almost in that price range so I started to look into the other amp options:) I have a bigger too :) I think I will go back to the site:))) THANKS AGAIN TAKE CARE STAY SAFE HAPPY LISTENING
@@Hypofx I’ll add one thing- There’s a good reason that Steve reviewed the Zen Triode- Because it’s amazing. The cost to sound/quality is probably unparalleled. Simplicity, quality, good design, and the least amount of components in a signal chain produce the cleanest, most transparent results. The Triode is the model on which all of Decware’s other amps are built. Adding more power complicates things, so more has to be done to to problem solve. If you end up deciding on the Triode, or the 25th anniversary Triode, you’ll get something very special. Something that the other amps are kind of chasing. Purity I guess. I definitely don’t want to come off saying that the other amps are “better” because they’re more expensive. Ok that’s it haha. Best of luck!
Y'know, there are a couple of UA-cam channels that, on the surface, do not appeal to me. They don't talk about stuff in the way I like, talk about products for which I have no interest, etc. But! I keep coming back. Steve here is one of them. I'd love a little more tech but SG has an infectious, almost giddy enthusiasm for his passion that transcends the specs. In the end, watts and thd will only get you so far. It's how you feel about what your listening to that really matters and that's where Steve shines.
Absolutely agree, and that's what makes Steve's reviews stand out. Similar to why I also like Z Reviews. Zeos isn't an audiophile per se, but he knows what he likes, he knows what sounds good, and he tries to express how it makes him feel.
One of my Decware amplifiers sits proudly next to my Vinnie Rossi L2i-se, it’s about the quality of the music reproduction not the cost necessarily...Head to head that’s the biggest compliment i can give Decware products.
I was looking at the Decware Super Zen Triode SEUFO02 with the meters and xlr for my balanced system. This pushed me over the top, I am going to go for it.
Good review Steve . I have at my place the following set up : Technics 1800mk2 with Ortofon 2M black MM Decware ZP3 phono stage Line Magnetic 518 integrated tube amp (22wpc) [ I also have a Darling Tube Amp , 0.75wpc] Devore Fidelity Orangutan 96 , speakers. I must say that the sound is just amazing . Decware makes excellent tube gear. Even the 0.75wpc Darling tube amp is loud enough for some easy listening . Now I do compare these to my brothers set up . He has a McIntosh MC 452 power amp , McIntosh C2500 tube preamp , Bowers & Wilkins 802 D3 speakers . That’s very good too , but a different set up .
Hi Steve. How does this amp compare with the boyuurange A50 300b amp you reviewed earlier this year? About the same price, and I bet others are curious too. Thanks.
And here I was about to pull the trigger on BoyuuRange A50 MKIII 300B from your previous video ... I think I'll need to cool my trigger finger. A bit too late for some purchases, but ... will wait now.
Absolutely not. Solid state amplifiers all have the solid state sound which is dryer and has less tonality than tube amplifiers albeit the addition of second order harmonic distortion. Tube amplifiers have a huge advantage of preserving the analogue sound of a recording such that the sound from a cd (or similar source) sounds similar or better than vinyl.
I like how the Decware website states, "Speakers with an efficiency of 96 dB with 1 watt will, for example, make your 2 watt Zen Triode amplifiers sound as loud as a 70 watt amplifier running conventional speakers rated at 84dB." Ironically, that is the exact rating of the Klipsch 600M (96db).
For a bit of slam, if you had a source with 2 outputs, you could feed one set to a powered sub and the second set (with FMOD inline 100hz crossover, or similar ) to this beauty integrated amp. The 2.3 watts would be extremely happy to just powerr 100 hz. and up.
Watch Steve’s video on power, active subs. It’s a simple fix. Parts Plus sales a sub amp that’s part of the sub enclosure. Nelson Pass is playing around with the sub amp. I can’t wait to see what that genius comes up with
I need to clarify my post. When I wrote "Steve", I meant Guttenberg, not Deckert. By Guttenberg gushing over the Decware amp, I figured it would create an environment where Deckert, of Decware, would get flooded with orders increasing the wait time for completed product. I see Decware has corrected my erroneous prediction. Good to know one can cop the amp in 20 weeks rather than enduring a longer wait. And, it is a magnificent product, so go for it.
@@maureenwassermann767 What does 20+ weeks mean? It could mean 20 to 52 weeks, 6 months to a year, just like Maureen said. The + makes it indefinite. And Maureen's spot on. A flood is coming.
I spoke to Steve 2 years ago as part of my due diligence required to purchase my first audiophile system. He was terrific and extraordinarily helpful. I was waiting for the Zu Audio Dirty Weekend’s to go on sale and in the meantime continued my research which lead me to finding new Focal Electra 1008BE’s for 1/2 price- $2999 and I bought them. Now Decware seemed more unlikely and my interest in a tubes for my first audiophile amp lessened. What caught my attention and which I ended up purchasing was the Hegel H90. Decware is back on my radar as a result of your review and award. How do you think one of Steve’s more powerful amps would handle a pair of AudioVector R3 Arrete speakers?
Have owned this wonderful valve unit for almost six months and, first paired it with a set of Rogers LS 6s and it sounded wonderful. Then purchased a perfect Set 15 from Tekton and combined it with a tricked out Rega 3 turntable... and it gives me hope, hope that beauty can be heard.
Hi Steve, What about headroom? I get that you like this little tube amp and I bet it sounds sweet. But surely it must have zero headroom. Horsepower under the hood to reproduce those transient attacks ?
Headroom isn't the big impediment that many make it out to be. For context, ... I'm a dynamics freak, FOH engineer, sub-bass enthusiast. That said, w/HiFi operational wattage in the home with music isn't as high as most think. Plus peak clipping w/tubes isn't as unpleasant as with solid state. Besides, as Steve pointed out reasonable sensitivity speakers will likely be fine, ... anything toward high sensitivity you're even better. A low noise room helps even more. Off loading the deep stuff to a sub system pushes inefficient loudspeakers into rock stars🤘🏼
@@FOH3663 Headroom is not an " impediment". It is something that is sought out (a good quality). If you are a dynamics freak you should be seeking out an amp with a lot of headroom not a 2.5 watt tube amp.
@@Grampadrummer Ah, you left out the important "that many make it out to be" It must be true because I listed five reasons; 1.) listening wattage isn't high as most think 2.) Tube clipping isn't as unpleasant like solid state 3.) Steve says 4.) Low noise room helps 5.) Subs Just because I mix live rock shows, ... have a 16.8kw multichannel home rig, doesn't mean I prolly don't know what I'm talking about🤔 Any questions revert back to #3 Besides, Pete Townshend said I'm deaf as a post.
@@Grampadrummer In all seriousness, headroom is simply un-used power. Back in the 80s, it was somewhat of an audio joke, as so many amp mfrs touted dynamic headroom as a marketing attribute. They'd have a 100wpc amp with "3dB dynamic headroom". Many mfrs were manipulating power numbers ... because the enthusiasts ate it up.
Have you taken speaker efficiency into account? Two watts driving a 97 db efficient speaker will put out 100 decibels of music. That is likely louder than you would ever want to hear.
Hi Steve. Love your show! Did I hear you say that in order to get the best out of a pair of speakers is to invest in a integrated amp at least >$1000, simply because these grade of amps provide cleaner, purer electricity / current? How can I tell? Is there a spec that specifies clean current? Thank you.
Hello Steve - Been watching a lot of your videos and enjoying them. I like your style and there’s always plenty of info. I’m thinking about getting a Decware Zen Triode amp. Been reading a lot of good things about it. Since I need to also get some (relatively inexpensive) hi-efficiency speakers, I’m also thinking of either the Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-8000F, Zu Omen Dirty Weekend or the Decware model DM945. They are all about $1k/pair and are high efficiency (97db ish). Any thoughts on best pairing with the Zen Triode? Thx
I just purchased the integrated Arcam SA30. It has great streaming capabilities, fine DAC, DIRAC room correction and I like the sound. Am I totally nuts for using it as a preamp for the Decware Zen Triode?
Cool review - thanks! It's been a long time since I was in the quality audio hobby, but have started to think about getting back in. Saw your review of the LS50 Meta's and thought, "I'd like to try a set of those." Most of my source material these days ia a NAS with 320MP3 or Loss-less rips via a SONOS system. I've got one of their most basic units hooked to cheap mono price tube amp someone gave me (25Watts, I think) and a decent set of bookshelf speakers. When I saw the Decware I thought it might be a good choice, but your review suggests it would be better paired with lower impedance speakers (e.g. Klipsch). If I want to stick with the Meta's, is there a comparable small tube amp you'd recommend that pairs better with them? Many thanks for all the great insights!
One should keep in mind that amplifier output power requirements are not just about average loudness, but also about being able to reproduce accurately the dynamic peaks, especially for full dynamic range recordings that have not been subjected to dynamic range compression. I have several low powered (~1-10 W per channel) tube amplifiers, which drive speakers with 87 dB per watt or greater sensitivity to very loud average levels. However, my amps at the lower end of the power output scale (~1-3 W per channel) will often sound hard (onset of distortion), or even very distorted, on dynamic peaks of uncompressed large scale orchestral music even when the average loudness level is moderate when driving 87 dB per watt sensitivity speakers. (Note: To further complicate matters, the difficulty of driving speakers with low power amplifiers will depend on the speaker's impedance and the output impedance of the amplifier, but I will not get into that here.) At the other end of the power output scale (~4-10 W per channel), I have never had an issue with distortion on dynamic peaks with these amps unless I play the music at an unlistenable average loudness level. Since 3 dB corresponds to a factor of 2 on a linear scale, 4 W driving an 87 dB per watt sensitivity speaker is equivalent to 2 W driving a 90 dB per watt sensitivity speaker. So the recommendation by Decware of using at least 90 dB per watt sensitivity speakers with their 2.3 W per channel amplifier seems about right to me based on my experience with low power tube amps. With 90 dB per watt sensitivity speakers, I would expect the 2.3 W output to be sufficient to avoid distorting on dynamic peaks in uncompressed music when played at a moderate average loudness level. Since reproduction of low bass notes requires more power from the amplifier than reproduction of higher frequency notes at the same loudness, one can also alleviate some of the dynamic range issues for very low powered amplifiers driving less than 90 dB per watt sensitivity speakers by using a powered subwoofer and driving the speakers only with the high-passed signal using the low power amplifier. In lieu of a subwoofer, if your speakers are bi-wireable, you can bi-amp such speakers using the low powered amplifier connected to the mid-range through treble connectors and another higher powered amplifier connected to the woofer. Since I prefer quality to quantity, I prefer low power amps with high quality output compared to high power amps with mediocre quality output. However, such low power amps need to be paired with compatible speakers. I think it was the late Harry Pearson of "The Absolute Sound" who said something like if the first watt is bad, why would one want a hundred more of them?
Mr. Guttemberg, thank you for this review. I am thinking to treat my system with tubes. More like preamp, but it might be amp as well. This Decware looks neat and I believe sounds great as well. I bought RP-600M and latter RP-5000F because I believed you. And you were right. I come from Slovenia, country where from still current 1st Lady comes from :-) But it is not like the way she describes it. So this tube amp is S E 8 4 U F O and cost about 1k$... PLUS more than half of its price to ship it to EU?!? Plus custom... Mr. Steve, which tube amp or preamp you would recommend for a start... I even do not know if I’ll like it :-) I am using Atoll IN100 and Klipsch rp-500f, and Auralic Aries Mini as DAC. Streaming only services.
On something like this it might make sense to do a short demo. Even though we are listening to this through youtube and our own headphones/speakers you can still get a better sense for what you are talking about by hearing an actual demo. Also where can you buy these?
I was at the Yorkville sound Workshop one day couple decades ago or so and listen to a 2-way speaker that blew my socks off. It was a folded Corner horn passages between the folds to make for phase correct bass... crossover to a ribbon tweeter. Have you ever reviewed stage accompany ribbons? And if you have reviewed them is there anything on the planet that's better in terms of efficiency transparency and power handling?
Dear Steve, I'm wondering what will be your best pick for "living the music" >> Decware amp or >> Pass labs XA25 ? I'm currently using Harbeth P3ESR 83db low sensitivity speakers in a small room. Many thanks for all your shows ! Mathieu - from Paris.
Right on. On principle, I would never use anything digital with a component like this. A DAC or CD? Never. A turntable and high-efficient speakers, which I already have, is all for me.
@@madmex6526 I’m mostly a vinyl guy, but I doing like the convenience of digital files played from my Mac over USB through a “lowly” Teac UD-301 DAC. It doesn’t disappoint.
Because it's using only 1 tube per channel (single ended) in "triode" mode, so you get the least efficiency from each tube (but the best sound). This tube in "ultralinear" mode will give your roughly 5 watts and in ultralinear push-pull (2 tubes per channel) will give you 12 watts more or less. So Decware decided to use the least efficient mode (single ended triode) but the best sounding. :)
Hey Steve, not being someone who gets deep into understanding all the science into what makes stuff work. My question is how does it handle music with rapid changes in dynamics? I always thought you need more power to increase the headroom to handle swift changes between soft and loud passages. Maybe I'm not saying this correctly. I try to listen to what sounds good to me and forget about specs. But some specs still seem important on certain levels, such as wattage. Thanks for another great review.
The key is having reasonably efficient speakers. I have this amp and some 97 db efficient speakers and the dynamics are outstanding in my system, the best I've ever had.
Steve: with Cornwall IVs playing big symphonic music in a large high space, how much added "slam" or vividness would I likely get if I run two of these Decware Zen Triodes as mono blocks (6 watts each)?
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac Ok, thanks for the unambiguous reply, much appreciated. Just tell me, please: is there a "musical" tube int amp that I can turn to? Maybe the Galion? Vincent Audio SV-237? Prima Luna? Or what? It's not that I want to rock out, I listen to classical, but I do want a symphony to overwhelm me.
I have the original version of this amp. Bought mine in 1999. No regrets.
what speakers are you using it with, or have used it to drive in he past? Just to set expectations. Thanks.
@@markprebich3988 Hammer Dynamics Super 12 mostly. I never tried it with anything under 90dB.
Thanks! I found a used 2005 Decware Zen 84C with some upgrades in great shape for about $350 US - it's limited for features compared to new ones with volume at the back, and only 1 input but the reviews are just phenomenal for the Decware so may just go for it. Any idea if sound difference is big between older ones and newer ones?
@@vintageprinciples I'm sure he improved something with the newer models, but I can't imagine it's significantly better.
@@vintageprinciples JC, I own a zen 84b, 84c, (2)SE84ufo2, SE341.2 and a CSP2. The 84c is a wonderful amp. I run the 84b and c as mono blocks with the CSP2 preamp and Klipsch Chorus II speakers. If that 84c is in good shape, it's a bargain. Sensitive speakers are a must. Klipsch, Zu, Omega and Decware....check the speaker specs! and roll some tubes.
I am at the age where a lifetime warranty doesn't mean that much.
Lifetime Warranty isn’t your lifetime, it’s the lifetime of the company selling the item, which could be much shorter. ;)
I own this amp and have it connected to a set of Perfect Set 15's from Tekton and I absolutely love this set up. I swear, the next album I put on the table seems to sound better than the last. I have now owned this system for well over a year now and my ears are still in love with each and every song that I play.
Came here thinking about this amp or a zkit1 for my new Pendragons. Great to see Tekton mentioned.
This little amp is just brilliant. I’ve had mine for four years and still love it. I use it with 87db sensitivity B&W Nautilus 805 speakers, and it sounds soooo great! Loud enough for me in my medium sized room, and I’m very happy with it. I hesitated for a long time because of the low power, but it is not a problem at all. With high sensitivity Klipsch speakers it will blow you out of the room!
Several years ago I taught my (then eleven year-old) son basic tube and electronics by guiding him through the build of the excellent Elekit TU-870R (now discontinued I believe). Also rated at *only* 2w/channel, it absolutely blew us away playing through a pair of Focal 706s. Enough power to easily fill a decent size room, totally engaging, spacious but detailed soundstage, and absolutely silent at idle.
With the power race in amplifiers, many people don't realize what one or two *true* watts can do... believe me they can do plenty.
My son took his new self-built amp to his room, and also made off with the Focals... lol. He's still using it, now at college.
As someone who's screamed the praises of the Decware SE84UFO to anyone who would listen(and a few who would't), this award really makes my day. It's really great to actually have our esteemed and sagacious reviewer of all things audio Steve, give a confirmation to what you thought you've been hearing.
I play my SE84UFO with Zu (another great American audio manufacturer that Steve has recommended) Omen Mk II DW's speakers with their clarity cap upgrade and 97db 1w/meter efficiency. They really bring out the best the Decware is capable of delivering! Micro detail, frequency range, dynamics and satisfying bass as the little guy is really quick!
I've substituted a Majestic Globe 80 for the stock 274b rectifier tube-a nearly 90 year old tube that looks like it came out of the original "Frankenstein" movie of the 30's and I get just an amazing, 3d quality to the overall sound. After about a year, I'm just starting to get into tube rolling as the possibilities are nearly endless.
I run a beloved Conrad Johnson PV5 pre from the late '80s, both Systemdek IIX900 and (new )Denon VL12 turntables and a Schiit Modi 3 and Cambridge Audio CXC CD Transport (both are Steve recommended)as my sound sounsources.
The bottom line on all this is that Steve will never steer you wrong on the best audio gear for the money. He's saved me probably a ton of money and a great deal of time and aggravation! Steve is THE ALL-TIME GRAND CHAMPION AUDIO REVIEWER and gets my Audio Reviewer of The Year Award!
"...and a few who wouldn't..." 😆 👍
Saving up for one of these and a set of Zu dirty weekends for a streamlined turntable setup.
I took a chance on the SE84UFO about 3 years ago and I'm still mesmerized with the sound quality. Congrats to Steve and the crew at Decware.
I am curious as to which speakers you use? I am seriously considering getting SE84UFO after selling my McIntosh MA252
@@Mamshi I use Omega Super 3i Monitors & DeepHemp 8 Subwoofer with the amp.
@@jamesmorgan4113 Thx for the reply. Will look into them
A hundred year old technology that still wins award in 2020, that says something.
You hit it right on the head!
Well said.
Or he's just getting senile
"The old that is strong does not whither.
Deep roots are not touched by frost."
-- J. R. R. Tolkien
soul - less - ution audio would be pissed 😡
I remember Joe very interestingly they remind me a bit of making my equipment myself. To the Decware team, congratulations for the 25th anniversary.
I remember when I first saw Decware online it was shortly after I had built my EL84SE and it turned out that I and Deckert had built very similar and yes my little amplifier is also bulletproof not once has been any problem even though I have changed and tried all conceivable combinations with tubes and yes I now also use Russian tubes as they are very good. The only two thing that separates mine from Decware is that I dont use rectifier tube and I use pentode mode which has shocked several listeners as they think it is triode so good is the little tube EL84.
I’ve had mine for almost 3 years. Love it!!!
Good to know, thanks 👍
I'm worried about wear and tear on it, or prolonged run time. How long at a time do you typically have er running ?
@@northern_moss When I’m off work, it and the other two tube preamps I have are regularly on 5 or 6 hours at a time. Matter of fact, they sound better after they’ve been on a few hours.
Hello Steve, I just subscribed and want to tell you I appreciate what you do. You're an audiophile helping us audiophiles learn about all the product out there. The way you break it down and speak to us audience is engaging and entertaining as well-dig your personality! Keep it up man-
I'm considering your t-shirt brand-
The passion for the details in music made me an Audiophile-
Rick E-
Steve, just purchased the DecWare and Klipsch RP600s. Can't wait for delivery. You are on the clock my friend!!!
How are you getting on with this combo?
@@beforever Hello, I ordered the amp am still waiting on delivery! I methinks me may have been scammed. No response to my questions from the company. I keep hoping against hope.
They should call it a 2,300 milliwatt amplifier. Sounds more impressive.
I bought the 25th anniversary version of this amp and it is an absolute jewel. I drive it from a Decware phono pre or an Oppo 205 into Zu Druid VI's with an Undertone Sub. A favorite addiction.
I'm so jealous. That 25th anniversary amp and phono preamp are lookers. Those two will be my new rig once I get my new place after this bleeping pandemic is over. Because they're low in profile, Klipsch Heresy's are my go to loudspeakers. Rock on.
@@madmex6526 I started my audio addiction with Heresy's and two Dynaco MkIII monoblock kits. And did they rock!. I want to get back to Klipsch horns when I get my mancave built in the basement. I do love those horns!
Steve, this video made my year! I currently have this amp in testing phase at Decware. I have a set of RP600Ms and BR03s waiting patiently. Patiently meaning that the amp was ordered July 13!
Great video.. Happy Holidays!
Bob - PLEASE come back and comment on how it sounds with the Triangles. I was just picturing that and then I found your comment!
BRO3 will disappoint you, don’t wast your time
@@JohnJohn-lk4lq Ok. Can you expand on that?
I am kicking myself for selling mine right now. It is an awsome amp! The guybi sold it to told me the amp was the real deal! He paired it with tekton moabs. God i miss it.
Merry Christmas Steve, thank you so much for another year of fantastic reviews! You and Herb, are such honest and real audio guys that even when you review things I am not in search of, I watch just to learn ! I think that makes everyone better in knowing what is out there for us fans of this wonderful hobby. All the best in 2021!
Steve: you are a marvel! And so are your shirts! Thank You!
Ordered the six watt amplifier last July and I’m like a little kid waiting for Christmas. Hopefully, will have it by mid January. Decware is at least 20 weeks behind in production so be patient. Thanks Mr. Audiophiliac for the review. You assuaged any second thought. Happy Passover.
Happy Chanukah , sorry for the mustake
To ramp up production, sales and profit, Steve could outsource to China. It's the American way. But then his products and philosophy would not seem so special.
As a result of Steve’s review and this product of the year award, the build time at DECware is now 20+ weeks. I’m glad I already gave mine but 20 weeks would still be worth the wait! Also, Herb will be doing a review, so I guess order now if you really want one.
HA! its currently 18 months
your enthusiasm is infectious. right on. thanks for the effort and the sharing. stay well. thumbs up.
Mine is about to ship any day now, after ordering this cute little unit. 🚀
Ordered this wee beast after seeing your review Steve
It sounds wonderful and am sure it will give you many years of listening pleasure. Enjoy.
You ruined it by saying cute
@@JohnJohn-lk4lq hahaha. you no like cute?
me likes👍
Mr. Decker puts out VIDS here online and I just decided to leave a message about some speakers that he featured with a link to that companies online store. He surprised me and told me that he thought the company where I thought about buying to 12 inch Full Range speakers was a good idea.
I really really like this man's mind ever since the Interview less than a year ago.... thanks! :)
I'd love to try this amp out.
I already got the 600m’s on your recommendation now I’m thinking this would go nice with them. I don’t crank my music so this sounds like my next step, I’ve never had a tube amp.
The EL-84 tubes are special. Love them on the Dynaco Stereo 35.
Also known as 6BQ5.
@@carlosbauza1139 no!! 6BQ5 is 6P14P, not 6P15P.... guys do not put EL84 in the Zen triode amp, it sounds bold, cubic and without refinement...
Wow! Good to know!
Engagement is everything, man! No matter how much one spends. And that's just because music demands engagement, otherwise it's not music.
Hi Steve, It would be wonderful a review of this amplifier with the Lii Audio Silver 10 speakers
Ordered mine based on your review a couple months ago, can't wait for it to arrive!
Couple months ago still didn’t get it ?
What's the wait time on these?
@@bmpk4954 Longer now that this and the original review were published! Mine took about 8 weeks in 2018
I ordered one too I'm right up at the top of the list. 6 months to get one, probably gonna be a year now lol
Would really love to hear from Joe again... I personally am looking into doing something along the same lines. Agree, brilliant work.
I got one of these three years ago SE84UFO. It replaced a very well respected SS amp that I used for a long time. I still had speakers with mid-80s sensitivity and it was not bad, but then switched to 97db speakers and I do not think I will ever look back. I run my phono stage directly into it, no line preamp. I have never had better sound. I listen in a small room and have taken a lot of care to set up the system. I rarely turn volume past 12. Gorgeous dynamic full bodied sound. I don’t listen to metal or hip hop but everything else comes across beautifully.
This video was a good surprise. I have been interested in the Decware line for years now. On a similar note I have recently restored and slightly modified a motorola console amp. It is an el84 single ended amp with a 5y3 rectifier and a 12ax7 front end. I use it to power a pair of Klipsch Heresey I speakers from 1979. The speakers are stock except for the caps have been changed to ne sonicaps. I have a lot of gear that all sounds great but this combo blows me away. This little amp has so much detail and depth. It out performs all of my higher power solid state amps. Thanks Steve
Nice award to Decware Steve. I tried to order an amp in August and the expected delivery date was in Nov-Dec. Good for Decware but be prepared for a long wait.
@@madmex6526
I’m sure you’re right about the wait time. Good luck if you order. The Decware would have been a 2nd amp and I had other priorities I focused on. Cheers.
As I’ve commented before I have this amp and it is every bit as good as Steve says, and then some. I’ve done a fair amount of tube rolling, which is ongoing, and can confirm that the circuit is so “clean” that it allows you to hear whatever difference a tube change makes. Lately I’ve been rocking different rectifiers, which has been a blast and has made a surprising difference.
I will add that the Zen DOES also benefit from a break-in period. I haven’t tracked my usage, but it has just recently seemed to hit its stride.
Steve straight hit us with that crayola shirt...this dude makes me feel like i'm watching adult sesame street
the 6bq5 strikes again. a wonderful, underrated tube
Hi Steve, I just ran across your UA-cam channel where you listed some of your favorite speakers. Very interesting. A bit about me . Back in the mid 70s I worked in a high end audio store in Anaheim Ca. They were primarily a ham radio store but had an audio section. Henry Radio was the name and if there are any old guys like me who are ham operators you know the name.
I'm no longer in the audio field but still love to read about what is current. My system is ancient...B&W DM6 speakers and a pair of Advents, the original, a Thorens / SME turntable and recently just acquired (for free) a Revox B77 half track high speed reel to reel.
But getting back to speakers. As I had a lot of opportunity to listen to various speakers of the time...Infinity electrostatics, Quads, Rectilinear, AR 3As, B&Ws, JBL, ad infinitum I must say the best speaker I ever heard was the AR LST. I could never afford them back then but I wish I would have figured out a way to make it happen. Would love to compare them to the new stuff out there today. I will subscribe to your channel and while I'm probably older than you I bet we would have a lot to talk about.
I have a Decware SE84CKC I bought on Craigslist for $450. What a Bargain. I love it! In My listening room I am surrounded by Klipsch KP301's, Electrovoice horns and Audio Nirvana 8's.
Lucky devil!
I’m definitely a Decware convert Steve! You’ve reviewed a few of their amps over the years and piqued my interest. I ended up with their Zen Torii Jr. It still has that SET sound, but with a few more watts. The build quality is bombproof, and it’s sound is unreal. Thanks for the tip.
a little bit deeper review? :) Im looking the same one
I chose the Zen Torii Jr because I wanted more power, but didn’t want to spend Zen Mystery amp money. It was a toss up between that and The Torii MK IV. I’ve heard amazing things about both, but for the money, I liked the Torii Jr. At 20 watts, I have PLENTY of power to drive high sensitivity speakers. Even with 87db speakers it can go louder than my upstairs neighbors would like, I’m sure. I’ve got a pair of 97db ZU Omens on the way, and with those, in my current room set up, I’ll have no need for more power. It’s an Incredibly transparent amp- sweet highs, lush mids, tight, fast bass. The soundstage is surprisingly big and layered. Also, being a tube amp, the sound can be dialed in to your tastes by trying different tubes(a whole rabbit hole on it’s own), and speakers, etc. The one caveat this particular amp has, is that it must be manually biased when changing rectifier or output tubes. A very simple and easy process, but it does take a few minutes between tube changes, as opposed to the Triode, or MKIV, which are auto bias. I don’t mind this, because the sound is amazing. I have the beeswax bypass mod as well, which I would recommend. All the Decware amplifiers are rock solid, so you can’t go wrong with any of them. I’d recommend contacting Steve(the owner) with any questions. I’m sure he’d be happy to help. They also have an “amp choosing tool” on the website, which can give you more info. Finally, the forums on the Decware site are remarkably informative. If you read some of those threads, or post questions, you’ll get some great insights. Best of luck on your journey! If you get one, you’ll love it.
@@Hypofx my bad, I replied but didn’t tag you. Did you see it?
@@lancelloyd7429 Thank you for this valuable information!!!! Looks like I'm in a similar case then you::) I was looking at the 25th addition of the ZEN, added some extra inputs but in the end, with all the plus thing I'm almost in that price range so I started to look into the other amp options:) I have a bigger too :) I think I will go back to the site:))) THANKS AGAIN TAKE CARE STAY SAFE HAPPY LISTENING
@@Hypofx I’ll add one thing- There’s a good reason that Steve reviewed the Zen Triode- Because it’s amazing. The cost to sound/quality is probably unparalleled. Simplicity, quality, good design, and the least amount of components in a signal chain produce the cleanest, most transparent results. The Triode is the model on which all of Decware’s other amps are built. Adding more power complicates things, so more has to be done to to problem solve. If you end up deciding on the Triode, or the 25th anniversary Triode, you’ll get something very special. Something that the other amps are kind of chasing. Purity I guess. I definitely don’t want to come off saying that the other amps are “better” because they’re more expensive. Ok that’s it haha. Best of luck!
Y'know, there are a couple of UA-cam channels that, on the surface, do not appeal to me. They don't talk about stuff in the way I like, talk about products for which I have no interest, etc.
But! I keep coming back.
Steve here is one of them. I'd love a little more tech but SG has an infectious, almost giddy enthusiasm for his passion that transcends the specs.
In the end, watts and thd will only get you so far. It's how you feel about what your listening to that really matters and that's where Steve shines.
Thanks!
Absolutely agree, and that's what makes Steve's reviews stand out.
Similar to why I also like Z Reviews. Zeos isn't an audiophile per se, but he knows what he likes, he knows what sounds good, and he tries to express how it makes him feel.
Intriguing to say the least. Thanks again.
Thank you Stephen
Great choice!
Love the retro American choice. SET Tubes are luscious and rich. Like a sinful dessert 🍨
One of my Decware amplifiers sits proudly next to my Vinnie Rossi L2i-se, it’s about the quality of the music reproduction not the cost necessarily...Head to head that’s the biggest compliment i can give Decware products.
I was looking at the Decware Super Zen Triode SEUFO02 with the meters and xlr for my balanced system. This pushed me over the top, I am going to go for it.
Who doesn't like meters on their analog rig? I do. Right on. XLRs are cherry on top.
Steve very cool nomination. And totally out of the box.
Good review Steve . I have at my place the following set up :
Technics 1800mk2 with Ortofon 2M black MM
Decware ZP3 phono stage
Line Magnetic 518 integrated tube amp (22wpc)
[ I also have a Darling Tube Amp , 0.75wpc]
Devore Fidelity Orangutan 96 , speakers.
I must say that the sound is just amazing . Decware makes excellent tube gear.
Even the 0.75wpc Darling tube amp is loud enough for some easy listening .
Now I do compare these to my brothers set up . He has a McIntosh MC 452 power amp , McIntosh C2500 tube preamp , Bowers & Wilkins 802 D3 speakers . That’s very good too , but a different set up .
How do you like the zp3? Mine’s on order and it’s been 3 months!
Hi Steve. How does this amp compare with the boyuurange A50 300b amp you reviewed earlier this year? About the same price, and I bet others are curious too. Thanks.
The judge has spoken. The verdict is in. There is no comparison. It's the Decware over every other component he reviewed this year. Case closed.
I'm honestly thinking about getting this guy with a pair of errx speakers and calling it a day
Harvey Gizmo used to say, “Ascend to micro-pwer..”
Please bring Herb along Joe’s place. I’d love to hear his thoughts on the full big horn rig.
I miss Gizmo. A great technoshaman.
“FAV SHIRT”
Hi Steve. Does Decware offer any discounts thru your YT channel for this beauty? You’ve convinced this audio newbie.
Thanks Steve.
About a 2 year waiting list to get one of these.
Those Klipsch RP600M speakers are spec'ed at 96dB, but two different publications have taken them into the lab and both measured them at about 89.5dB.
And here I was about to pull the trigger on BoyuuRange A50 MKIII 300B from your previous video ... I think I'll need to cool my trigger finger. A bit too late for some purchases, but ... will wait now.
“But isn’t solid state better?” Great to see this as your choice of component of the year.
Absolutely not. Solid state amplifiers all have the solid state sound which is dryer and has less tonality than tube amplifiers albeit the addition of second order harmonic distortion. Tube amplifiers have a huge advantage of preserving the analogue sound of a recording such that the sound from a cd (or similar source) sounds similar or better than vinyl.
Steve, if would be cool if you could do a comparison review between the Decware amp and another low wattage amp, for instance from First Watt. Thanks.
Always the best shirt!
That's easily the best shirt I've ever seen.
I like how the Decware website states, "Speakers with an efficiency of 96 dB with 1 watt will, for example, make your 2 watt Zen Triode amplifiers sound as loud as a 70 watt amplifier running conventional speakers rated at 84dB." Ironically, that is the exact rating of the Klipsch 600M (96db).
For a bit of slam, if you had a source with 2 outputs, you could feed one set to a powered sub and the second set (with FMOD inline 100hz crossover, or similar ) to this beauty integrated amp. The 2.3 watts would be extremely happy to just powerr 100 hz. and up.
Watch Steve’s video on power, active subs. It’s a simple fix. Parts Plus sales a sub amp that’s part of the sub enclosure. Nelson Pass is playing around with the sub amp. I can’t wait to see what that genius comes up with
I have the amp and agree it's wonderful. To those who do not have the amp, but want one, Steve just increased the wait time from 6 months to a year.
No, I didn't. We are presently at 20+ weeks.
I need to clarify my post. When I wrote "Steve", I meant Guttenberg, not Deckert. By Guttenberg gushing over the Decware amp, I figured it would create an environment where Deckert, of Decware, would get flooded with orders increasing the wait time for completed product. I see Decware has corrected my erroneous prediction. Good to know one can cop the amp in 20 weeks rather than enduring a longer wait. And, it is a magnificent product, so go for it.
@@maureenwassermann767 What does 20+ weeks mean? It could mean 20 to 52 weeks, 6 months to a year, just like Maureen said. The + makes it indefinite. And Maureen's spot on. A flood is coming.
Steve... have you run this amp with the Zu Omen Dirty Weekends? I wonder how good a pairing this amp would be with Zu DW
Yes it would be a great match.
I spoke to Steve 2 years ago as part of my due diligence required to purchase my first audiophile system. He was terrific and extraordinarily helpful. I was waiting for the Zu Audio Dirty Weekend’s to go on sale and in the meantime continued my research which lead me to finding new Focal Electra 1008BE’s for 1/2 price- $2999 and I bought them. Now Decware seemed more unlikely and my interest in a tubes for my first audiophile amp lessened. What caught my attention and which I ended up purchasing was the Hegel H90. Decware is back on my radar as a result of your review and award. How do you think one of Steve’s more powerful amps would handle a pair of AudioVector R3 Arrete speakers?
There's also a model that is 6W stereo or 12W mono. :D
Have owned this wonderful valve unit for almost six months and, first paired it with a set of Rogers LS 6s and it sounded wonderful. Then purchased a perfect Set 15 from Tekton and combined it with a tricked out Rega 3 turntable... and it gives me hope, hope that beauty can be heard.
Thanks Steve. Any chance of you reviewing there mono blocks?👍
Hi Steve, What about headroom? I get that you like this little tube amp and I bet it sounds sweet. But surely it must have zero headroom.
Horsepower under the hood to reproduce those transient attacks ?
Headroom isn't the big impediment that many make it out to be.
For context, ... I'm a dynamics freak, FOH engineer, sub-bass enthusiast. That said, w/HiFi operational wattage in the home with music isn't as high as most think. Plus peak clipping w/tubes isn't as unpleasant as with solid state.
Besides, as Steve pointed out reasonable sensitivity speakers will likely be fine, ... anything toward high sensitivity you're even better. A low noise room helps even more.
Off loading the deep stuff to a sub system pushes inefficient loudspeakers into rock stars🤘🏼
@@FOH3663 Headroom is not an " impediment". It is something that is sought out (a good quality).
If you are a dynamics freak you should be seeking out an amp with a lot of headroom not a 2.5 watt tube amp.
@@Grampadrummer
Ah, you left out the important "that many make it out to be"
It must be true because I listed five reasons;
1.) listening wattage isn't high as most think
2.) Tube clipping isn't as unpleasant like solid state
3.) Steve says
4.) Low noise room helps
5.) Subs
Just because I mix live rock shows, ... have a 16.8kw multichannel home rig, doesn't mean I prolly don't know what I'm talking about🤔
Any questions revert back to #3
Besides, Pete Townshend said I'm deaf as a post.
@@Grampadrummer
In all seriousness, headroom is simply un-used power. Back in the 80s, it was somewhat of an audio joke, as so many amp mfrs touted dynamic headroom as a marketing attribute. They'd have a 100wpc amp with "3dB dynamic headroom".
Many mfrs were manipulating power numbers ... because the enthusiasts ate it up.
Have you taken speaker efficiency into account? Two watts driving a 97 db efficient speaker will put out 100 decibels of music. That is likely louder than you would ever want to hear.
Steve, when you measure dBs, how far away are you positioning the meter?
video looking so clear! new phone?
Thanks for noticing, but not a new phone, a new app! Filmic pro
Hi Steve. Love your show! Did I hear you say that in order to get the best out of a pair of speakers is to invest in a integrated amp at least >$1000, simply because these grade of amps provide cleaner, purer electricity / current? How can I tell? Is there a spec that specifies clean current? Thank you.
Hello Steve -
Been watching a lot of your videos and enjoying them. I like your style and there’s always plenty of info.
I’m thinking about getting a Decware Zen Triode amp. Been reading a lot of good things about it.
Since I need to also get some (relatively inexpensive) hi-efficiency speakers, I’m also thinking of either the Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-8000F, Zu Omen Dirty Weekend or the Decware model DM945. They are all about $1k/pair and are high efficiency (97db ish).
Any thoughts on best pairing with the Zen Triode?
Thx
I just purchased the integrated Arcam SA30. It has great streaming capabilities, fine DAC, DIRAC room correction and I like the sound. Am I totally nuts for using it as a preamp for the Decware Zen Triode?
Cool review - thanks! It's been a long time since I was in the quality audio hobby, but have started to think about getting back in. Saw your review of the LS50 Meta's and thought, "I'd like to try a set of those." Most of my source material these days ia a NAS with 320MP3 or Loss-less rips via a SONOS system. I've got one of their most basic units hooked to cheap mono price tube amp someone gave me (25Watts, I think) and a decent set of bookshelf speakers. When I saw the Decware I thought it might be a good choice, but your review suggests it would be better paired with lower impedance speakers (e.g. Klipsch). If I want to stick with the Meta's, is there a comparable small tube amp you'd recommend that pairs better with them? Many thanks for all the great insights!
One should keep in mind that amplifier output power requirements are not just about average loudness, but also about being able to reproduce accurately the dynamic peaks, especially for full dynamic range recordings that have not been subjected to dynamic range compression.
I have several low powered (~1-10 W per channel) tube amplifiers, which drive speakers with 87 dB per watt or greater sensitivity to very loud average levels. However, my amps at the lower end of the power output scale (~1-3 W per channel) will often sound hard (onset of distortion), or even very distorted, on dynamic peaks of uncompressed large scale orchestral music even when the average loudness level is moderate when driving 87 dB per watt sensitivity speakers.
(Note: To further complicate matters, the difficulty of driving speakers with low power amplifiers will depend on the speaker's impedance and the output impedance of the amplifier, but I will not get into that here.)
At the other end of the power output scale (~4-10 W per channel), I have never had an issue with distortion on dynamic peaks with these amps unless I play the music at an unlistenable average loudness level.
Since 3 dB corresponds to a factor of 2 on a linear scale, 4 W driving an 87 dB per watt sensitivity speaker is equivalent to 2 W driving a 90 dB per watt sensitivity speaker. So the recommendation by Decware of using at least 90 dB per watt sensitivity speakers with their 2.3 W per channel amplifier seems about right to me based on my experience with low power tube amps. With 90 dB per watt sensitivity speakers, I would expect the 2.3 W output to be sufficient to avoid distorting on dynamic peaks in uncompressed music when played at a moderate average loudness level.
Since reproduction of low bass notes requires more power from the amplifier than reproduction of higher frequency notes at the same loudness, one can also alleviate some of the dynamic range issues for very low powered amplifiers driving less than 90 dB per watt sensitivity speakers by using a powered subwoofer and driving the speakers only with the high-passed signal using the low power amplifier. In lieu of a subwoofer, if your speakers are bi-wireable, you can bi-amp such speakers using the low powered amplifier connected to the mid-range through treble connectors and another higher powered amplifier connected to the woofer.
Since I prefer quality to quantity, I prefer low power amps with high quality output compared to high power amps with mediocre quality output. However, such low power amps need to be paired with compatible speakers.
I think it was the late Harry Pearson of "The Absolute Sound" who said something like if the first watt is bad, why would one want a hundred more of them?
Excellent choice! You've made me want one bad, audio lust!
Mr. Guttemberg, thank you for this review. I am thinking to treat my system with tubes. More like preamp, but it might be amp as well. This Decware looks neat and I believe sounds great as well. I bought RP-600M and latter RP-5000F because I believed you. And you were right.
I come from Slovenia, country where from still current 1st Lady comes from :-) But it is not like the way she describes it.
So this tube amp is S E 8 4 U F O and cost about 1k$... PLUS more than half of its price to ship it to EU?!? Plus custom...
Mr. Steve, which tube amp or preamp you would recommend for a start... I even do not know if I’ll like it :-) I am using Atoll IN100 and Klipsch rp-500f, and Auralic Aries Mini as DAC. Streaming only services.
On something like this it might make sense to do a short demo. Even though we are listening to this through youtube and our own headphones/speakers you can still get a better sense for what you are talking about by hearing an actual demo. Also where can you buy these?
I was at the Yorkville sound Workshop one day couple decades ago or so and listen to a 2-way speaker that blew my socks off. It was a folded Corner horn passages between the folds to make for phase correct bass... crossover to a ribbon tweeter. Have you ever reviewed stage accompany ribbons? And if you have reviewed them is there anything on the planet that's better in terms of efficiency transparency and power handling?
Steve... Would adding a Schiit Freya + on the front end be a good combination...with a Klipsch RPM 600 as my output. TIA.
We shall see said the ZEN MASTER!
Dear Steve,
I'm wondering what will be your best pick for "living the music" >> Decware amp or >> Pass labs XA25 ?
I'm currently using Harbeth P3ESR 83db low sensitivity speakers in a small room.
Many thanks for all your shows !
Mathieu - from Paris.
A good complement for a pair of Rega RS1's?
Hey Steve, Have you tried rolling the tubes or are you satisfied with what came stock?
I like the Zenith rectifier over stock
Thanks. Love the channel.
All this amp needs is a source and speakers. It will outlast any Bluetooth DAC, speakers etc
Right on. On principle, I would never use anything digital with a component like this. A DAC or CD? Never. A turntable and high-efficient speakers, which I already have, is all for me.
@@madmex6526 I’m mostly a vinyl guy, but I doing like the convenience of digital files played from my Mac over USB through a “lowly” Teac UD-301 DAC. It doesn’t disappoint.
Steve...can you explain WHY its 2.3 watts?
Because it's using only 1 tube per channel (single ended) in "triode" mode, so you get the least efficiency from each tube (but the best sound). This tube in "ultralinear" mode will give your roughly 5 watts and in ultralinear push-pull (2 tubes per channel) will give you 12 watts more or less. So Decware decided to use the least efficient mode (single ended triode) but the best sounding. :)
What's the difference between this one and the model after it with the meters?
So interested, but they still haven’t filled orders from two years ago. That’s one hot piece of equipment. So on the fence.
Great choice, Steve! It's on my short list for my next amp. Beautiful!
Nice! Best shirt of the year!
Love that crayon shirt! 👍
Hi Steve. Thanks for your content. Did you use a pre-amp?
Most of the time are used a preamp, but it’s plenty fine without one
Hey Steve
How does the sound compare to the LebenCS 300 integrated?
How much are all factory replacement tubes in total? Wow, those Klipsch are SUPER efficient!!! Sounds like great combo!!
You need to do way more research before buying anything close to this, you have no idea what your doing
No intention of buying any of it...
Hey Steve, not being someone who gets deep into understanding all the science into what makes stuff work. My question is how does it handle music with rapid changes in dynamics? I always thought you need more power to increase the headroom to handle swift changes between soft and loud passages. Maybe I'm not saying this correctly. I try to listen to what sounds good to me and forget about specs. But some specs still seem important on certain levels, such as wattage. Thanks for another great review.
The key is having reasonably efficient speakers. I have this amp and some 97 db efficient speakers and the dynamics are outstanding in my system, the best I've ever had.
Steve, I am sold! In your opinion, would the LEAK 130 match well with the SZT? You see, now I'm committed to separates. ;o) Thank you for your review.
thanks ..Is there something close to this that you can get your hands on for less? or it is worth the wait?
Steve: with Cornwall IVs playing big symphonic music in a large high space, how much added "slam" or vividness would I likely get if I run two of these Decware Zen Triodes as mono blocks (6 watts each)?
Not enough! Big space, dynamic music come on. You need a lot more power, at least 25 W per channel.
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac Ok, thanks for the unambiguous reply, much appreciated. Just tell me, please: is there a "musical" tube int amp that I can turn to? Maybe the Galion? Vincent Audio SV-237? Prima Luna? Or what? It's not that I want to rock out, I listen to classical, but I do want a symphony to overwhelm me.
Im curious how a pair of Martin Logan ESLs would pair with this amp.
I see you can run this amp 6 watts mono, that would be interesting. Steve see if you can get another one.